Mandy Morris and Ashley James 

Mandy Morris, author of “Love: It’s How I Manifest” recounts her journey through her traumatic childhood and troubled teen/young adult years, and how she started making conscious choices to change herself and live an authentic and empowered life.

[00:00:00] Ashley James: Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? I highly recommend checking out the Institute for Integrated Nutrition. You can Google Institute for Integrated Nutrition or IIN and give them a call, or you can go to, and you can receive a free module of their training. Go check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested.

Be sure to mention my name, Ashley James and the Learn True Health podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible. I highly recommend checking it out. It changed my life to be in that program, and I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information. We need more health coaches. In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field.

So many health coaches are getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic offices, doctor’s offices. You can work in a hospital. You can work online through Skype and help people around the world. You can become an author. You can go into the school system and help your local schools shift their programs to help children be healthier. You can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success and their health goals.

There are so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach. Check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrated Nutrition. Mention my name, get the best deal. Give them a call, and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you.

Classes are starting soon, so you want to call them now and check it out. And if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding, and you get many people. Have a fantastic day and enjoy this amazing interview.


[00:02:07] Ashley James: We are in for such a treat today. We have with us Mandy Morris, who has a beautiful mission and story. She’s here to teach some wonderful things about how to use the special power that we’re all born with to manifest the things we want in our lives.

Mandy, welcome to the show.


[00:02:40] Mandy Morris: Thank you so much for having me.


[00:02:42] Ashley James: Absolutely. I feel like you’re about to uncover our superpower. We’re going to find out that we were born on krypton, and we’re all Superwoman and Superman, through your story and what you’re going to teach today. You’re going to help us to see that we have a superpower, so I’m very excited to dive right in and learn more about you and your story because you have a beautiful one.

Welcome to the show, and please start by sharing your story with us.


[00:03:11] Mandy Morris: Absolutely. This is a pretty good story, I would say. Let’s go to the very beginning, and that was as a child, I was considered a child genius. I do not know what my exact IQ was, but there was a university that wanted to study me. My mother was really against it because I come from that lineage of individuals on my father’s side — inventors and totally socially not there.

She’s like, “I don’t want that to happen to Mandy.” She actually wouldn’t allow for the universities to study me, but that part of me stuck with me. And so as life would have it, traumas, work experience, when I was 10, I wanted to live with my father — my parents are divorced at a very young age, and dad wasn’t always around. Mom got a job, and she taught me how to be an independent woman and how to take care of myself.

Having a divorced family and going back and forth between households, different state lines, it takes a toll on a child. Tried to live with my father, did not win that custody battle, and something about that shut me off. It made me really angry, and I made the decision — unconsciously at that point — that if I could make myself undesirable, then maybe I can have what I want.

I hacked all my hair off. I turned the light down on my intelligence. I dropped out of my gifted classes. I remember when I was 13, that was the turning point. My father had called me. He had taken — I believe it was 48 Percocets. He was on his way out. He had called to say goodbye and to tell me to tell my sister that he loves her. It was such a defining moment obviously in life. Sitting there thinking I don’t know where he is — we never really know where this man is. He’s the elusive, most interesting man in the world. He’s got so many crazy stories.

We were trying to figure out where he was. Thank goodness for my mom because she grabbed the phone, and her words were like, “If you leave the planet, you are a horrible human being. Do not do this to these girls. How dare you be so selfish?” She was screaming at him. He ended up telling her where he was, and he’s alive to this day.


[00:05:55] Ashley James: Thank God. I’m in tears right now. I’m like, “Oh, my gosh!”


[00:06:01] Mandy Morris: It was such a beautiful thing. He’s still alive to this day. It was such a defining moment where I realized he doesn’t believe he can start over. He thinks that this is it. At 13, you’re like, “How can I fix that in someone?” I didn’t believe I could obviously, and at that point, we went out of the woods, and so I thought at any moment I’m going to get the call — it’s not him calling, but it’s someone telling me that he’s gone.

It was such a catalyst in such a beautiful way if I look back at it now. It turned me into this punk of a kid. I was so angry at the world. I just had this true and true belief the world is not fair; it’s not safe; it’s not right; this is so messed up; people don’t believe that they’re worthy of life, and you can’t even do anything about it.

That caused me to hang out with some really confused people — just as confused as I was — and I involved myself in drugs. Anyone who had gone to jail, I was friends with them. Drug dealing, all kinds of crazy things, just shut my light off, and I had extreme anxiety. I would eat lunch in the hallways because I was so afraid of being around with other people.

It was such a crazy life for myself that I had created out of these traumas that I had experienced. I carried those into adulthood through different forms of anorexia, bulimia, need for control, really unhealthy and abusive relationships and friendships, and trying to put a mask on and be someone that I wasn’t over and over again.


[00:08:11] Ashley James: Wow. You paint that picture, and we can all reflect on our childhood and see those moments that were so traumatic in the moment for us a child. Hard to understand — a death in the family, a divorce, suicide, accidents, and how a child’s mind wraps their head around it.

As a child, we take everything personally. That’s just how we are as we develop. It’s everything that’s happening to us, and so it’s easy to be victimized as a child and make decisions about the world — “The world is unsafe, and I’m not lovable. I’m not good enough. I can’t have what I want.”

You decided to make yourself less desirable because your mom wouldn’t let you with your dad. We make these childish decisions as a child, but they become part of our programming that we’re now still running as adults.


[00:09:21] Mandy Morris: Right. We see that with children, and I see that in my clients now. It’s the craziest of experiences as to why their brain, for some reason, were wired that way that day in that particular experience, and they carry it forth throughout life. It completely sabotages our human experience sometimes because it snowballs into something so different than what it was just because we lacked the tools to see things from all perspectives or see things as they truly were because we’re not capable of that as children.


[00:09:54] Ashley James: Sometimes it’s something that, as a parent, we couldn’t even know. I child can internalize something, and we don’t even know it’s a trauma. They can make a decision about maybe something they observed happened to someone else.

Like my son, who shortly after birth wore a teething necklace. He came to us one day and said, “Can you take this off me because I don’t want it to be stolen by the other kids.” To him it’s a precious item; he wore it his whole life, and he had a dream that bullies took it away from him. I felt so helpless that day as a mom. I’m like, “How do we protect my son from bullies in his dreams?

Sometimes it something we don’t even see no matter how good you are as a parent. We all, as children, internalized the world through a child’s eyes. We’re all going to come up with limiting decisions, negative beliefs about the world, and now as adults, we need to go back and make sure that a child’s decision isn’t running her life.


[00:11:08] Mandy Morris: Absolutely. You used the word programming. I love that so much because that’s the core of it. It’s based on our perceptions, sometimes our traumas and experiences, and also some of our memories that aren’t really memories. We may have seen it on the TV, and it triggers such an emotional response at a young age, that we perceive it happened to us.

It’s such an intricate thing our brains are doing at young ages and also into adulthood that is shaping a false reality for ourselves, and stunting us in becoming the best version of ourselves, or at least experiencing what we want to experience as humans versus what we feel is already laid out before us.


[00:11:47] Ashley James: Tell us what happened. Here you are, you’re the grunge kid, or the emo kid, or the defiant teenager. I went through that phase, by the way. I ended up finding Landmark Education and went through all their programs. But I was dyeing everything black, listening to Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love. I was trying to be the greaseball, angry teenager because I was so hurt and scared inside. I put on that exterior layer of anger to protect myself because I felt so helpless and so alone as a teenager. If you’re prickly, if you look like a porcupine, people aren’t going to hurt you.

When I went through the Landmark Education program, I just got so authentic really fast. I realized how it wasn’t serving me. I walked in looking like an emo, grunge kid and walked out looking like who I truly am inside — my happy self. We have those moments where we can’t shed who isn’t us anymore or all the armor that we think is helping us.

But what happened to you? After high school, you were in such a state. How did you get to the person you are now?


[00:13:14] Mandy Morris: It’s so funny too when you say you went into that grunge phase. That was me in the seventh and eighth grades. I had a black shirt, and it had anything on it. I would turn it inside out, so it was only black. I don’t know if I ever washed my hair. My face was breaking out. You can see my complete disconnection from my spirit. I wore it on my face. I was just so over reality already.

Carrying that through in the high school, getting myself into plenty of trouble and just making poor decisions for myself, and then when I turned 18, I got myself into a relationship with a guy who is about a decade older. I loved him very much — I think he taught me amazing things, but he was also extremely unhealthy for me. It facilitated the lack of self-love I already had within me — not thinking I was good enough — and that was when the bulimia and the anorexia started taking place and abusing Adderall or crazy fat-burning supplements. I was a stick, but I hated myself so much that I was like, “I’m not lovable. I am so broken. No one can know the real me because they will reject it, and I will be whatever anyone else wants me to be. I will give parts of myself I don’t have to give and devalue myself.

I did that for years. I call it this re-wakening moment, where I saw what I was doing to my self. Not enough to change it — we have those moments, but we’re like, “This is really not working.” But I’ve built some certainty around it, and I’ve created a reality around it. I remember finding this [00:15:01] a friend mine. She became a close friend. A lot of that intelligence that I had shut off as a child sort of reawakening with her.

I still can’t explain exactly why. It attracted all of these incredible doctors and scientists. People that I had seemingly (especially with how little I thought of myself) had a new business being around, and I started seeing metaphysics, quantum physics, psychology, and I was working three jobs. I put myself through school. I worked in a junkyard, almost passed out — I did pass out a few times in the sun — got hit with tires. It was working with gang members. It was a crazy experience.

But I was bringing forth that intelligence again and learning from brilliant minds — minds of people who have machines in their basements that cure cancer and they work in the government, and now they don’t. I was in this underground world of intelligence and goodness, of people who were doing amazing things for the world that no one would ever know. It sparked this deep knowingness within myself that reawakened that child-like version of me that was loving, vivacious, intelligent, and caring.

It was those moments that I couldn’t even pull all of it together to change my own life, but I started gathering information. It was a long journey for me to get back to myself or understand what the heck was going on. Through this work with this scientist and these doctors and these amazing, brilliant minds throughout the world, studying with them and just being a fly on the wall, absorbing information, but still wasn’t creating a full shift.

I remember taking this moment — I had this horrible experience with this gal that I bought a house with. I was living in Arizona, and it was such a horrible decision, and we had a really bad living experience together that I just rode off the house. I just gave it to her, and I moved across the country to Florida. I was still working a corporate job and trying to keep my sad little life together. For thirty days I was broke. For thirty days, I sat in this little one-bedroom condo. I had no furniture. I had a phone pad on the ground and a pillow and a blanket, cupboard box turned upside down. That was my desk for about thirty to forty-five days; I was there with nothing.

If the neighbors walk by, they’ll probably be like, “What is going on there? Is someone really living there.? I just sat there with my little ten dollar Walmart lunch chair that I bring into every little nook of the apartment, and I found myself. I was completely alone. I had moved away from my family, my friends, every unhealthy or healthy thing, I was just with me. I’ve always avoided myself. I was the person you can never be alone. It was the most amazing thirty days of my life.

I got to meet myself, probably the first time that I could ever remember, and I was so euphorically happy. Even if I’d wake up and my back hurts, and I didn’t have any money, it was amazing. I, of course, let my programming kick back in, and the abusive guy that I was dating in Arizona followed me to Florida, and I let him back into my life.

For about four or five months, I lived in complete misery all over again. My entire reality that I was running away from followed me. All of the mental beliefs and all the junk came right with it. It was like it had never left. But it was so much harder because once you experienced the beauty of life, once you experienced your true essence, it’s even more painful to have to go back. Ignorance is bliss; it’s better that we don’t know. That was the biggest I’d ever have in my life because that was when I realized, it could be different. I could love myself. I felt what it felt like to know me, to accept me, and to be with just me, and I was enough.

That was not the belief I had before, and so even though I might have someone in my face telling me I’m not, I was like, “No, this isn’t true anymore.” I felt the difference, and I know it’s not true, and I dropped to my knees literally — sounds like a movie, but it was true.

I dropped to my knees, and I was sobbing, and I was praying to God, the universe, whatever. I said, “Please, I would do whatever I’m supposed to. I don’t care if I have children. I don’t care if I make money. I don’t care if I’m never going to have a beautiful life or not, but just bring me peace. Let me do what I’m here to do, and let me feel the way I felt. I don’t care about anything else.”

There was such purity at that moment that everything shifted so fast. Literally within two weeks, I had removed the relationship, I quit my job, I had moved to the state of Florida, and I met my now husband. He became a dear friend of mine very quickly. All of it just showed up immediately. It almost seemed like a manifestation to support me. It was such a juicy experience after that, and that was actually the first time where I decided to let go of the fear; instead, it will never be the same again. I will not have a fallback, and I’m not going back. I’m simply not going to feel the way I felt anymore because I was at the point where I was either going to turn my life completely off for the rest of my life, or I have to give this a go and see if I can turn it back on or get it to amp up. That was the choice I made.

[00:21:17] Ashley James: That’s brilliant and beautiful. I know we’re going to dive into some actual steps to help listeners have their transformation. How do you help people to come to that point where they too can choose to let go of the fear?


[00:21:39] Mandy Morris: A lot of times people need to see the proof that it’s possible — and this is what drives me absolutely insane, especially in the industry that I work in — you see this final product. Like when someone sees even me — I know I’m not a final product, but I’m growing every day — but they might see me and the internet has shown that they think that I maybe had a really beautiful life, that things are really simple for me. A life coach is going to teach them how to mantra their way into a better life, and we’re going to do yoga. Those are understandable fears that show up when someone is trying to change their life. They’ll look at someone and put them on a pedestal, or they’ll say, “They’re not like me,” or “They can do it, but I can’t do it,” and a sense of unworthiness.

A lot of it is being able to see that it’s even possible. And so, when I was in that part of my life and that journey, I had to look at people and go, “They had been in really bad situations. They had felt the way I feel. They have created the messes that I have created, but they were triumphant.” And then I got really curious as to why–why were they so triumphant?

It was about educating myself. There’s a trilogy to that whenever I’m talking to someone about these factors, and it’s that science and the psychology, and then that kind of magic of the universe if you will — that kind of miraculousness.

When you combine all of those, you meet every need that the brain has to move forward because most often everyone can move forward. Everyone can change their life if they so choose. There’s always a beautiful reason. Maybe it’s because they perceive that there’s a reward for it — “If I don’t do this, then I’ll be safe. It cannot be seen, or it won’t be judged, but it’s causing massive amounts of pain.”

But the reward is seemingly so big because humans will only go towards pleasure or run away from pain. But once you see that it’s not getting you where you want to go, then it’s not so juicy anymore. It’s not rewarding anymore, and so the brain starts looking for new ways to meet the need. And that’s when you swoop in and start creating a healthier form of meeting the same needs that you had prior; they are just more consciously met.


[00:23:59] Ashley James: Brilliant. You met your husband. You finally were able to shed all that you weren’t and embrace who you were. What happened next?


[00:24:13] Mandy Morris: It was a journey. It continues to be. That moment was so defining because it was the moment that I never had to go back again if that makes sense. You know how sometimes we get that roller coaster experience where we’re like, “I’m gonna change my life,” and “Oh, I’m back where I started,” or “I was really good on my diet for a month, and then I failed.” We feel like it re-solidifies our belief that we’re never going to get “there,” and “there” being like that beautiful place that we know in our hearts are somewhere within us. It’s available, but it’s so far away. Or like I say, it’s like saran wrap between my soul and me. I can see it. It’s just I can’t truly touch it.

That was those moments that I never fully turned back, but there was still so much healing that had to take place. It wasn’t like, “Life is chipper, beautiful, and perfect.” It was like, “I’m going to do the freaking work now to figure out why I’ve built the reality I built; why I believed the things that I believed,” and I finally loved myself enough and was courageous enough not to give up halfway through.

That was when I saw massive growth in a short amount of time. That was when I decided, “You know what? I’m actually on to something here.” All of this information I’ve acquired throughout the years about the psychology or the neuroscience of the brain or physics and so forth — we’ll call it manifestation because some people like that word. It sounds a lot easier than “I’ll teach you neuroscience and how to heal your traumas.” Nobody wants to do that.

Gathering all that information, I took that and started my company — Authentic Living — and started helping people. The ways that I was capable of at that moment, I’m so much more capable today than I was then.

There were certain people I could help then, and there’s so much broader array that I can help now. Every day, I got better. Every day, my relationship with myself and just my dysfunctional behaviors in relationships, in general, began to heal. I was able to work through them with my husband. And then the traumas of my past, I was able to work through those and face them versus always shoving them down, almost like planting a dirty seed, and then it festers and grows, and you’re like, I don’t even know where that came from. I got conscious of what was going on in my thoughts every day.

And so every day, I got 1% better, and before you know it, it compounded. Life is completely different.


[00:26:49] Ashley James: I’ve heard in the past that having an eating disorder of control like anorexia and bulimia, which is different than feeling out of control. So there are eating disorders, but some of them are of control.

When you’re anorexic, you have an intense amount of control over not eating or what you’re eating. I’ve heard that level of control, that person is reaching out for that because they feel out of control in their life. They don’t have control over external events, and so their anorexia is how they can feel in control and grounded in a sense and obviously in an unhealthy way.

As you were healing yourself and using neuroscience to heal the trauma, how did you shift your relationship with your eating so that it became healing for you instead of that mental-emotional issue?


[00:28:00] Mandy Morris: That was very much a gradual process because my anorexia and bulimia started when I was eighteen. That was a very unhealthy time in my life mentally. You’re absolutely right — there was no sense of control in my outer world, even in my mental thoughts.

It was like this one thing I can hyperfocus on, and then I can meet my need for certainty right here and obviously overdo it and brutalize my insights in the process. But at least I’ve got this massive form of control, and no one else can be involved in it. In a relationship, you can’t be in control, not in an unhealthy way. In your job, there are other areas of life that have more variability. But when it comes to what you consume, that’s like the juicy one where you get to control every factor of it, and so it was so rewarding.

When I started seeing that I couldn’t maintain it, the anorexia was actually easier than bulimia — just easier to not eat — but then I would get extremely impulsive behaviors, and then I would binge, and then I would throw it up.

Really seeing that for what it was and seeing that my body didn’t look the way I wanted, there was a flipping point. I actually moved out of the apartment I was in and switched schools. There was a moment of clarity that I had where I found this chick online, and I said, “I want to look like her.” She had all of her diet stuff, and she was by all means super certainty-based. She had all of her workouts and exactly what she ate and so forth, but it was actually eating, and that was the biggest step I could take at that moment. If I can look like that, maybe I’ll be loved. Maybe the guy I’m dating will stop cheating on me because he likes the way that she looks, so I’ll try to be like her. I’ll follow her regimen.

And so it got me one step above. It’s like when you’re helpless, when you can’t go into complete happiness and elation. Usually, the next step is going to be something like at least you can be angry, or at least you can be sad, or at least you can feel neutral, and you can go up the steps of the emotional leader. That’s what I was doing with my health. There’s no way that all of a sudden, I’m going to love my body completely, nourish it, intuitively know what it needs. But at least I can move towards actually consuming calories every day, exercising, and no longer bingeing.

And so, it was just that one step forward, and then I got to that point and started actually liking the way that I look, but I was still quite neurotic about it, and then took a little step further. It honestly wasn’t until I met my husband that I would go out to eat, and I was okay with not everything organic, and this amount, and weighing my food, and had to look like that. I just completely flipped the script because I found self-love.

And so I went to the other extreme which was, “I’m not going to care for a little bit. I’m just going to see how I do and see if this guy..” It was really honestly probably me testing him because every man in my life I had perceived only loves me because I look a certain way, or only loves me because of this. So it was me saying, “Do you really love me? Let’s find out.”

[00:31:26] Ashley James: How did you meet your husband?


[00:31:31] Mandy Morris: This is the Facebook story. He reached out to me on Facebook, and he said, “I love the videos that you create, but I can’t figure out what you’re selling.” I was so appalled. I had my corporate job. I was like, “I’m just spreading love and talking about my journey because I was so lonely in Florida that my only connection to people was creating these videos and just talking about whatever I was learning.” He said, “You should be.”

I was like, “What?” For some reason, as soon as his face even popped up, I was like, “I just feel like I know him.” He was so gentle. He was such a sweetheart. He was this amazing Filipino man, and I was like, “I don’t care how, but I want you in my life forever.”

I began to fall in love with him, and he didn’t fit the archetype. He wasn’t a jerk. He wasn’t someone who cheated. He wasn’t a football player or a jock or any of that. He was this amazing, beautiful, heart-centered man. I just had to keep working on every moment, but I would try to sabotage it. I would kind of wake myself back up, “Nope, we’re not doing that, Mindy. We’re going to work through this consciously. You found someone willing to do that with you,” and it turned into a beautiful relationship and then marriage, and now our first son is on the way.


[00:32:58] Ashley James: Congratulations.


[00:33:00] Mandy Morris: Thank you. I’m sitting here, and I’m nine months pregnant. I’m like, Ashley, if I say I got to go, that’s because the baby is coming.


[00:33:08] Ashley James: It’s okay. The first one is always late. Don’t worry about it. It’s probably going to be like at 42 weeks.


[00:33:12] Mandy Morris: Oh, don’t tell me that.


[00:33:16] Ashley James: [laughs] You got at least two weeks of Braxton Hicks, the false contractions, to go through. It’s all good. If you expect him to come at 42 weeks, you’ll be really happy when it’s 39. Tell yourself it’s happening at 42 weeks and you’re good. Congratulations.

Was your husband in the Philippines, or was he in the States?


[00:33:38] Mandy Morris: Yeah. He grew up in the Philippines. He is the oldest of four girls, so maybe that’s some of the reason he’s such a great communicator. But he moved to the US when he was 18 and started studying personal development. He’s an amazing sales marketer. He has a son, who is now my full-time son as well. We have an eight-year-old, just not with us — not my biological son.


[00:34:03] Ashley James: Born in your heart, not of your womb.


[00:34:05] Mandy Morris: Yes. And he’s not happy that he wasn’t in the womb, that’s for sure, right now — seeing all the pregnancy go down. My husband moved over when he was 18, and then we met.


[00:34:17] Ashley James: That is wonderful. Tell your husband I think he’s fantastic.


[00:34:22] Mandy Morris: I will. He’ll love hearing it.


[00:34:25] Ashley James: I enjoy what you said — every step of the way, as you were doing your personal growth, you got to catch yourself. Your husband was that mirror, and you got to catch yourself while you were sabotaging it.

Carl Jung said something — I’m paraphrasing him, but something along the lines that we marry our unconscious mind and project on to them all of our unresolved material. And so if we can wrap our brain around the idea that we truly will never know anyone, and no one really knows us because we are constantly processing information through our unconscious filters, and we’re always projecting our unresolved stuff at people.

Prime example, my husband and I, when we’re first together, we were driving in a truck — I still remember. That was like eleven years ago. He turns to me, and he starts arguing with me, which is so not like him because he is a very cool-headed, easygoing person. I’m like, “Where did this come from?” I did not say something that should have had him react this way. I looked at him, “Are you reacting to me, or is this something from your past?”

He sat there for a minute, and he went, “Oh, my gosh. You know what? I was just talking to my ex-wife. Something you said, the way you looked at me, the tone of your voice, something had me completely get triggered by a past argument that I had with my ex-wife, and it had nothing to do with you.” But at least we had done that break state because if we hadn’t — if I had reacted, we would be just full on at each other’s throats. Luckily, we paused long enough to realize that this argument has nothing to do with us at the moment.

And so so much of life is that — so I love that you caught yourself while you were with your husband, “Wait, this is my stuff from the past.” He was that wonderful loving mirror that allowed you to do that personal work, that allowed you to safely bring things up to process.


[00:36:34] Mandy Morris: We created that space. He needed that space too, coming from an unhealthy marriage as well. It was like we were both each other’s rock, but also each other’s constant trigger. I love what you said about your husband bringing in the past because that’s the filter. I just wrote an article about this on Conflict and Relationships, and that was the whole thing. That was what I was writing about. It’s our past coming through. We have these constant filters that we’re trying to process information through, and the ways that our brains will process based on traumas from the past, and so many different factors that are within that, when you take on that. Neuroscience, the psychology, and just the environmental factors, societal programming — everything.

Most of life, it can be our jobs, our view of money, our view of sex, our relationships — all components of if life is supposed to be easy or hard, they all come from filters from the past versus a conscious and limitless knowing of the now, of what can be created without all of that weight.


[00:37:37] Ashley James: Prayer had a profound impact on that moment that you dropped your knees. That was that turning point that you never went back. You have a background in science and understanding how we create reality — the neuroscience and the metaphysics of it. I love this idea of being able to marry spirituality and physics — being able to see that they have more in common than we think. How does prayer play a role in your transformation or your life now, given your understanding of neuroscience?


[00:38:28] Mandy Morris: I think that the reason I brought in the neuroscience and why I teach it instead of just teaching manifestation from a more woo-woo perspective is because I want to be able to reach every soul. Sometimes God is a programming for people. It doesn’t resonate for them. They have to work on that relationship of what prayer means to them because again prayer might come from a programmed belief versus connecting to yourself or connecting to the universe or God — insert whatever word you want.

I remember doing this interview with a rabbi. I remembered him calling me the night before, and he’s like, “I just want to make sure that we’re not gonna fight on this interview tomorrow on my podcast. I just need to talk to you prior,” and what we both came to a conclusion was that we were talking about the same thing; we just used different modalities to reach the same conclusion, which is to bring everyone back to a state of oneness. I call it love — love can be my religion, I suppose.

But when I look at prayer, it’s the foundation. You can’t teach a child psychology, but you can teach them how to connect to themselves, no their intuition, or learn about their version of a higher power. I grew up having a close relationship with that part of me.

I journaled since I was five years old almost every stinking day. I would write about everything, and the only reason that I can actually look back on my past and know that it doesn’t come from crazy memories that didn’t really exist is because I documented my entire life like a psycho. I don’t know why I did it, but I wrote everything down.


[00:40:19] Ashley James: That’s cool. I admire that.


[00:40:21] Mandy Morris: Oh, my gosh. It’s been the most amazing thing because now I can go, “I’ll go back, and I’ll reverse engineer something, and that’s actually how I helped myself because I can go, “Six months ago, things were not okay or were amazing. What was going on then and what preceded that? What came before or after? What really happened?”

And so it’s reverse engineering process to me obtaining this consistent elevation in my life for the past ten years that I’ve had. It’s always been on that constant positive incline. How do they do that?

I’ve always journaled through all that and find these incredible components and pieces of information, but even as a child, prayer was really how I stayed in tune with myself and how I brought love out to the world and was able to help people at such a young age.

We had kids that would come in with extreme behavioral issues in school. The principal asked my mom, “Can we pull Mandy out of class when certain children are really out of control, but she’s the only one who can calm them down?” So I remember in first, second and third grade getting pulled out of class sometimes because there would be a kid throwing chairs, biting, and stuff. I would go in, and they would calm down, and then I’d walk with them to the principal’s office. For some reason, I just kind of had that in me. I equate that to that centeredness and that connection I had as a child before I try to shut my light off.

Prayer has been the foundation, but the science, the psychology, and the way the brain works, it’s interesting. It meets that science part of me, but it’s also sometimes people need to hear that because they don’t have that connection to themselves anymore, and so you can’t serve them. They can’t connect with you if you’re only speaking from that one point of view. It’s almost like religion where someone is talking about this one religion, and you missed out on touching so many people because people are already throwing their filters or walls up. I’m always trying to bring those down by keeping it open. The conversation can go any which way, and there can be many different perceptions. We’re all talking about the same thing.


[00:42:34] Ashley James: If someone was in a tantrum now, a child or an adult, what do you do that helps to bring someone back down and have them calm down?


[00:42:47] Mandy Morris: It depends on the person. If I look at my son, if he is flipping out, and it’s cool because he used to bite himself, pull out his hair. He had some really crazy behaviors when I first met him. And so there’s this concept called mirrored neurons, and children do it a lot with their parents, but it can also happen adult to adult. If they keep receiving that information, basically the way that your neurons fire, they’ll start to match that in their brain.

Staying in a calm state is one of the most seemingly important things. It absolutely is from an actual level of physics almost because if we can impact one another energetically, then the energy that we hold, kind of me being a high-powered battery and hugging someone sad and they kind of juice up, that’s the same thing. We have the ability to electrically impact one another.

And so the state that we are in when we’re serving someone, when we’re trying to calm someone down is far more important than the words we use, or the actions we take. It’s the unsaid that impacts them the most.


[00:44:04] Ashley James: You just described rapport in neurolinguistic programming. I love that you explained it, how the brain does it. When you want to help someone shift their state, you need to be in the state that you want them to be in.


[00:44:20] Mandy Morris: Yes.


[00:44:22] Ashley James: That is so cool. That’s awesome. So here you are now. You’ve been with your husband who has helped you to hone in — because through his marketing and his personal growth, background, and you’ve honed in what you do now to help others. You’ve been working with people for years. What kind of services do you offer? I know you’ve got a wonderful book called Love: It’s How I Manifest, and your website is Do you work one on one with people still? Is it over Skype? Do you do group coaching or workshops? Tell us about how people can work with you.


[00:45:04] Mandy Morris: I don’t do any one-on-one coaching. This whole concept was birthed in the book as well. I was doing some work in Scandinavia with one of my cool scientist friends, and so my husband and I went to visit them. They’re also friends. They own clinics throughout Scandinavia and really throughout the world — a very cutting edge technology.

When I went there, I was already coaching at that time, and I had dropped out of my Ph.D. I decided I am not going to work within the confines of therapy or clinical psychology, or psychiatry. It just wasn’t something that I was interested in anymore. So I dropped out of my Ph.D. It’s kind of like scratching my head because I realized that I wanted to become a therapist for egotistical reasons — so that I could prove that I was good enough because if you’re just a coach, then anyone can be a coach. I had to push the ego aside because I didn’t want the red tape. I wanted to be able to tell my clients that I care for them and to be able to hug them if I want to and to be able to truly help them get out of the chair. That’s what I’m known for, and it was birthed in Scandinavia.

When I was living in Norway, there was a concept of getting people “out of the chair.” I have so many friends who are therapists, and I trained therapists, I love them so much. Some of the red tape they had really sucked for them.

When I was in Scandinavia, we were working on psychosomatic illnesses, so basically illnesses that are manifested in the body through the mind, through thought. Allergies, for example, are beyond psychosomatic most often. Even colds — sometimes cancer and different diseases of different sorts — so many come true. And so many times that someone would show psychosomatic problem, and it wasn’t strictly environmental, strictly physical, then they would ask for me to come in.

So I would go in, and I would sit down with the client, and we would have electrodes on them as well, so we’re receiving brain feedback at the same time, and we’re pumping biofeedback into the body to see how they’re reacting to different frequency signatures.

Basically, I had a bunch of psychiatric nurses, doctors, and scientists going, “How are you getting their brain to release so fast. I’m not one to sit there and go, ‘Why?” I didn’t learn from anyone. I didn’t take all of those courses. I have never taken NLP or any of that.

People were like, “You’re doing all of those things that those people learn.” I’m like, “It’s coming out intuitively.” “Then I stand behind whatever you’re learning because it’s great stuff.”

Working through the weirdest of things  — we had this particular individual, for example, with a heart disease. You’d think, heart disease, it’s showing that it’s psychosomatic, which means that, of course, again her thoughts, the way her brain is wired or firing right now is causing the heart to shut down.

And so about three hours into the session — and we had a translator — a lot of the folks that flew in to see me can’t speak English. So that made it all the more interesting because then I can’t really feel all of the energy when I speak which is a huge component of being able to tune in intuitively. It took us about three hours to get to the root.

She had experienced extreme trauma when she was 18. But she went to therapy after, the therapist did their job, and she was not registering any hidden trauma from that. I’m like, “That’s so interesting because you think that it’s going to be in the obvious places, especially something as serious as heart disease.” It turned out that her mother was dying of cancer, and her mother was the only form of unconditional love that she never received, so she was trying to get her body to shut down to die with her mother.

I remember sitting there thinking if this is what people can do to themselves because they lack love, we have so far to go in the world of therapy. It just woke me up to truly creating change in someone’s life. When these individuals would shadow me in these sessions, I’d be like, “What are you doing?”

It would drive them absolutely insane because they have the scientific mind, and I know the frustration of that. I would be like, “It’s because I love them. It’s because I pour love into the room.” They would be like, “What the–?” They were so irritated. But it was true. I was really speaking from my heart. I’m not kidding. Obviously, I don’t have a methodology. I can’t give credit to someone that I learned this from. I’m telling you, I go in, and I pump up my intuition. I ask to serve the highest level possible. I remove all parts of my ego, but I pump in the unconditional love.

Because what happens is that certain form of love — it’s a very specific vibratory level. But that form of love gets the subconscious to relax and release. So what it does, or has the ability, I should say, to rewire the brain to create new neurological pathways, when someone believes trust and feels that truth coming from another individual, they meld with that energy, and it can change their neurochemistry.

That created my whole methodology. I was such a control freak about it — here comes the control — that I couldn’t teach it to anyone. I wouldn’t want to put my stamp of approval on something until I know every component of how I’m doing this.

It took me about a year and a half. I ended up creating the first certification program for life coaches. We have a lot of therapists and psychiatrists and counselors that also go through it to teach us methodology. So that’s one of the cool things that we have going on now, and then events and a lot of the coaches are now running these events. I take the backseat and get to see the ripple effect of my work out in the world.

That’s been amazing and so beautiful. I’m always creating something new, and whatever the world needs, we’re at the beck and call of it, so we answer to that. I call it an answer to the highest good of all. That’s my phrasing. I try to teach people how to bring that form of love and understanding so that they can truly help people and change the world.


[00:51:56] Ashley James: That is so cool. Did you ever get to measure the frequency of that specific kind of love that you’re using? Is it measurable and hurts?


[00:52:05] Mandy Morris: I’m sure it is, but that wasn’t something that we’re doing specifically because we’ve been looking at the brain, and we’ve been looking at how it’s firing any emotions that would be coming up. There are some amazing technologies out there. I could be talking about love, and someone has a negative connotation of what love means to them.

And so then, maybe like the energetic signature or the frequency signature of anger or jealousy, and then we can be like, “What is that? What’s that jealousy thing that’s showing up? What’s that anger thing?” Obviously, it’s great, but there’s a technology that can do that because then it’s a little bit more full-proof. But humans are quite comparable to technology if they’re in that same mental state, that you can get so much done even without hooking someone up to a frequency meter basically.


[00:52:57] Ashley James: That is so cool. Can you teach us some techniques today so that the listeners can have an experience of shifting their life?


[00:53:09] Mandy Morris: Yes, I would love to. There’s a few that I wanted to talk about, if that’s okay. They seem a little more woo-woo, but I think it’s applicable.


[00:53:17] Ashley James: Let’s woo-woo it up.


[00:53:18] Mandy Morris: Let’s go woo-woo. This first concept — everyone has heard of it, but I think it’s that whole saying, “When the student is ready, the teacher arrives.” Sometimes we have to hear it from someone specific, or the frequency in which they send it out is the way we needed to receive it, and then it finally clicks. I love that all of us are saying the same things sometimes, but finally, when someone is embodying that truth, it gets in, and it solves the problem for someone.

It’s love versus fear. A lot of my clients who aren’t into the love versus fear, they’ve got a negative relationship with love at that time, will say like, “light versus heavy.” It’s this idea that’s piggybacking off of the second thing I wanted to talk about, which is living consciously.

Love versus fear is this idea of, in as many moments as possible throughout the day, how can we, in our decisions, our thoughts, and our reality choose something that feels light, or choose love.

This is based on an intuitive decision that we make. It’s great to start in the morning with it because, throughout the day, we snowball into our personas and our other personalities, and meeting everybody else’s needs. We lose ourselves, and it’s a great place to stay grounded.

In the morning, it might be something as simple as, “Does it feel lighter to me, or does it feel like more in a space of love to me to eat breakfast outside or inside? Some people literally have to start, and this is the square one for them — Do I eat outside or inside? Do I go for a walk? Do I stretch? Do I pick up that phone call or does that phone call feel heavy because it’s my dad calling and I know my dad’s going to ask for something that I don’t want to give him?

It’s just making these sometimes courageous or simplistic decisions that bring us towards a space of light. Because what that does is allow for us to keep shedding all of the weight — the energetic, emotional, or psychological weight that we carry of all the roles that we feel we need to play throughout life or the people that we need to be to get our needs met. It’s just instead, “I’m going to do what feels truly good.”

We can even look retroactively. If I look back at most of the jobs that I’ve ever worked, did I choose that job out of fear or out of love and excitement? Most often it was of fear. I was afraid that I wouldn’t be able to pay the bills. I was afraid because I had been homeless before. I was afraid because I couldn’t eat, and so I had that extreme scarcity. Was that wrong or right? Maybe it wasn’t so right. Not that I had the tools to change at that time, and I loved myself through it, but then you can start seeing, “Wow, my entire life revolves around making decisions from fear. No wonder I’m so unhappy.”

And so when you take that component, and you take it to the second piece, which is living consciously — living consciously is, in as many moments as possible, similarly to love versus fear, but you’re just aware.

Eventually, these become so natural. But a lot of times I see folks who will set alarms on their phone every hour. It drives you insane at first because if you put an alarm on your phone, and it says, “How do you feel right now?” or “What’s your dominant emotion?” and you realize that you’re pissed most of the day, you’re like, “Wow, I’m screwed.”

So you have to come at it with acceptance and some love towards the experience. But it’s just figuring out how do I feel most of the time. The chemistry in our brains and the particles that affect it — our energy impacts particles. Our consciousness impacts particles in the air.

When people say, “I want to change my life,” “I want to manifest this, I want my soulmate to come in,” “I want money or whatever thing they want. The first thing they need to do is start consciously living so they can understand how they are currently interacting with the particles in their environment.

This is physics, and it’s not to say that physics is always a yes and no answer.  Quantum especially — there’s a lot of room for hypotheses in there. But when you are looking at how am I impacting my environment, which means that I’m the epicenter of my environment, and I can take and assume responsibility for where my life is at, which is also a choice we have to make. Then in each moment, I become more and more conscious of what’s going on. Kind of like when you and your husband were in the car, and you were able to be conscious enough to be like, “I don’t think this is about me.” And you were able to ask him, and he was conscious enough to be like, “Oh, crap. Sorry, that wasn’t about you.”

We keep taking steps backward before inception point to where before he was even about to blow up, he’d be like, “Oh, you know what’s weird? When you send that, I got triggered, and I almost blew up on you, and I was thinking about that.” And then we’ve completely changed our reality at that moment because let’s say that you were having a bad day too, you might not have been able to consciously bring that out of him and then what would have happened to the relationship dynamic for the next hour or something?

People lose relationships over this stuff. Not because they’re not a beautiful couple, but because they’re not living consciously. They are so swarmed up with fallacies of their past, perceptions, false beliefs that they can’t live consciously enough to see things as they truly are, which is that silly saying “Live in the now.” But it’s true that each moment is a new moment, and the past doesn’t need to be brought in for protection or solidification.


[00:58:50] Ashley James: That’s so beautifully said. Right now the divorce rate is about 50-50. So many of us are unconscious, and our unconscious, unresolved material is wreaking havoc on our life. So you’re helping people to get conscious and choose love and gain a lot of clarity and a lot of healing in that way.


[00:59:14] Mandy Morris: Right, and we have that with all of our relationships. It could be an intimate relationship. It can be with our boss, or mom or dad, or siblings and so forth. I grew up with nine different divorces — throughout my step parents and parents and so forth. It was like love does not exist, and it sure as heck doesn’t last. That was a very core belief. I never thought I was going to get married. That wasn’t on my dock because, at some point, things are going to hit the fan or someone’s going to cheat enough that you’re going to leave –it’s just not going to happen.

It wasn’t until I started getting right with myself and finding my authentic self and the truth within me that I was able to bring forth someone who could consciously work through that with me as a life partner, and then I was able to let that bleed out into my relationships with friends and family.

It wasn’t until I started getting right with myself and finding my authentic self and the truth within me that I was able to bring forth someone who could consciously work through that with me as a life partner, and then I was able to let that bleed out into my relationships with friends and family.


[01:00:04] Ashley James: It all starts with us. When we’re pointing the finger at other people, that’s when we realized these three fingers are pointing back at us.


[01:00:11] Mandy Morris: That’s the biggest part too, and that’s a part of the action steps I wanted to share today — assuming responsibility. It’s such an annoying one for all of us, but we get all the power back. We’re talking about certainty and control. If we can assume responsibility for our life, and again I say this more in the Western world — things are happening in parts of the world that I would not ever tell someone that they created for themselves. But when we look at, “I don’t like my job,” or “My husband doesn’t talk to me the way I want him to,” there is typically a beautiful way for us to heal that if we assume responsibility for the role we play in it.


[01:00:51] Ashley James: Even things that are horrific. When we talk about being at cause versus being at effect, being responsible for life versus being the victim, there’s usually someone in the crowd that goes, “What about rape? What about incest? What about molestation?” — all those horrific things that could happen. It’s not that we’re saying that it’s your fault. Fault isn’t the word we ever use. It’s taking responsibility for your entire life to gain back control and or become empowered. Because if you’re responsible for your life, then you have the power to change it.


I look back on the dark things that have happened in my life; I am so grateful for them now because they’re part of the person I am now. I’ve done a lot of healing work to get to where I am; I can embrace who I am now. If I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn’t want to relive those bad experiences, but I can be so happy and take responsibility for that. All my unconscious and conscious choices in my life led me through those experiences, led me to where I am now, and I get to choose who I am in the moment. I get to choose to be who I am now, so that allows me to be at cause.


Again not the word fault because people get upset when we say “take responsibility.” It’s like forgiveness is not saying that the act is okay, like if you forgive someone for harming you or harming someone you love. It’s not saying it’s okay that they did that. That’s not what forgiveness is. Forgiveness is ending their past discretions from hurting you in the present.


[01:02:57] Mandy Morris: Yeah, reliving it.


[01:02:59] Ashley James: As long as we’re still angry about something bad or negative that someone did, it’s like we’re still letting them hurt us in the present. When we take responsibility, that allows us so we can do things like forgive, that allows us to stop the past from hurting us in the now.


[01:03:16] Mandy Morris: I so love that you bring that up because I had been raped twice, and I blamed myself. If I look back to what happened in my very early adult years, if I look back on those moments, that was playing into the same environment that I’d created of “I’m not good enough,” and “I’m unworthy.” Just give people what they want; they’re going to take it anyway. It was ultimately, a deviation that led to a reality and experiences that were so painful and not something that a human really should have to experience.


But there was an inception point, which was years prior when I decided that I didn’t love myself and I wasn’t worthy of being honored. If I’m floating around in that reality, in that mentality, in that energy, then I brought forth these particular circumstances. Because I knew these people, I brought forth that energy and the reality of that. And me being able to say, “You know what, I think I did create that, and that’s okay, and I can heal from that now.”


As we just said, we don’t have to relive it every day, or hate the person, or be angry so that it never happens again, so that I feel safer.  Instead, just let it be a part of the human experience without so much emotional charge, and it was coming out of neutrality: “I can move forward in my life, and my now isn’t affected.”


[01:04:44] Ashley James: For people who’ve never done that shift.  It’s like turning a light bulb on and off, being a cause versus being an effect. So being at effect is you turn on the TV, you turn on any mainstream media, and they’re pumping out an agenda to keep us at effect. There’s very little media out there besides podcasts and interviews like this, but there’s very little media out there that want to put us mentally in a place of empowerment. Because when we’re at cause in our world, when we’re 100% responsible for our world, and when we’re empowered, we don’t have a hole of void in our life to fill with their products that they’re trying to sell.


Watching TV, even Netflix and Hulu, and all the things we like to watch, and listening to the radio, all that media and magazines that media has designed to keep this facade of this world in which we are at effect. And we are helpless as individuals, especially around the news. I’m sure we could do a little fun experiment where we hook ourselves up to meters that register our stress levels.


[01:06:09] Mandy Morris: You don’t want to see it. Trust me.


[01:06:12] Ashley James: Watch five minutes of the six o’clock news and see what happens. But yeah, there’s very little out there that has us do that shift — to get that we’re a cause. Almost like being in The Matrix, there’s a lot invested in keeping us as victims and out of our personal power. For those who’ve never really tasted being at cause, can you help us to get to that place of personal power where we’re coming out of the matrix and seeing the world through the eyes of someone who’s empowered?


[01:06:51] Mandy Morris: It’s so funny that you bring up The Matrix because the creator of the Matrix, Sophia, is a dear friend of mine. Every time we sit down, she’s filled with, obviously,  this truth. We talk about TV programming like television is visually programming you, and reading is fundamental. It’s “fun to mental,” right?


[01:07:12] Ashley James: [laughs]


[01:07:13] Mandy Morris: I know. Silly, little play on words.


[01:07:15] Ashley James: I love it.


[01:07:16] Mandy Morris: And so when we look at that, we’ve got to stop and say, “What am I absorbing? Is it really true?” The easiest way goes back to that love versus fear thing “Do I feel good?” If I don’t feel good, I’m suspect. I’ve trained my brain to feel that way, that if I feel off, I’m hyper-focused on it. I’m not trying to numb it out. I’m not trying to ignore it. I’m not shoving it to the side saying, “Just deal with it later.” I’m like, “What is it? Why is it here?” Because it doesn’t belong.

And so it’s training ourselves that “If I don’t feel good, I will figure out why. If something doesn’t feel good, I will remove it, or I will figure out why.” When I look at all of this saturation of horrible programming that we’re pumped with and we’re fed with so that we can continue our crazy consumerism, it really is a control thing.

I have way too many friends that are in and out of the government — I’ll go crazy on this topic but keeping it a little bit more light. When we look at the need to maintain a status quo in our societies, and that is every small factor in the society, it can be the relationship we have in our household. It can be culturally. It can be with media. It can be in the embodiment of our country or the entire dominant frequency of planet earth. But it’s dominantly negative.

But it’s shifting, and I want to remind anyone who listens to this that although the world is seemingly in disarray, the light always wins. Light being information, being the truth. We see this happening a lot in media where if someone’s got skeletons, or if someone’s doing something shady, it’s coming out.

That’s the beautiful component of social media — things are so viral and spread so rapidly, sometimes completely untrue information as well. So that’s where our intuition needs to come into play. But that saturation is starting to balance itself out because it’s happening both ways. There’s not that same control factor of it all being fear-based. So now we regained a little bit of our control, a little bit of our personal power and saying, “What do I choose to read up on? What do I choose to view?” It becomes more and more of a conscious choice versus an unconscious choice.

Generationally speaking, the newer generations are waking up to this truth of things are not as they seem. Things are not in place in the same way that people say they are, and they’re questioning it instead of blindly following. It’s like the book “Outwitting the Devil” by Napoleon Hill. He talks about this so well, where there’s like the drifter personality, and the drifter is just someone who blindly follows things versus questioning and saying, “Is this right for me? Is this true? Is this what I want to focus on?”

I even do that when I see like protests — individuals who are fighting against something versus trying to love through and bring community to something. There’s no right or wrong either way, but I have my personal take on it. So when someone says, “Mandy, can you put this on your platform? We need to stop this horrible thing from happening?” I’m like, “We do, but we’re going to do it in a way that comes through with love versus continuing to create separation.” I think that from a societal standpoint we’re

realizing that the separation that we’ve created within ourselves and within the horrible lies, or just the disgusting programming that we’ve received through some of those outlets, that we don’t have to pick it up.

We can just keep it down. We can just set it down even if we’ve already picked it up, but then it doesn’t have to be for us. It’s through that that we get to the root of creating change on a global scale versus continually perpetuating that sense of anger for being misled by different people, or media, or social outlets and so forth. Instead, we create a knowingness within, ourselves and that radiates outwardly, and that can’t be penetrated. It’s far more powerful.


[01:11:36] Ashley James: For those who are thinking there’s no example of where love has made major political shifts. I invite you to seek out the history of Gandhi because everyone just knows him for his hunger strike, which is like just one tiny thing that he did, but he rallied a nation to use love and peace to make a change, which seems like — don’t you need force and anger? Aren’t force and anger the only ways to make change?

So he used a very feminine energy and made a major shift in his country. It’s so beautiful when you dive into the details of the whole story. It’s a perfect example that we can make beautiful changes in ourselves, in our society, in our family and our relationships, and we can use the highest power, which is love.


[01:12:35] Mandy Morris: Yeah, because think about it — if someone were to sit right now and consider the embodiment of love. Maybe not love that they have with their spouse if it’s unhealthy or the perception of “My parents didn’t love me.” Those aren’t really love. Those are completely different things.

I hate it when we have to use that word incorrectly. But when you imagine that true form of love, it’s almost like a sense of peace. It’s like an expansion of energy versus a constriction. When you imagine being in that space, what happens to the body? What happens to the cortisol levels? What happens to the brain? It gets out of primal mode.

And so we literally can find better solutions. We tap into a different part of ourselves through maintaining that state or that frequency of what I call unconditional love because there are many different forms of love that are a little bit not so much love. But if you think about what that actually does to the human, to their mind, to the state in which we are in, of course, it’s the solution because we can find so much information and tools in that mental state and in that heart space that it gets us in that, of course, it’s the answer.


[01:13:44] Ashley James: What can we do every day to raise our vibrational state physically, mentally, and emotionally? What could we do every day so that we’re bringing ourselves closer to that frequency of love?


[01:13:57] Mandy Morris: I would say that the first thing is to understand how to tap into your intuition because just like programming — how programming is created in so many weird, crazy ways and it’s different for everyone, so is the intuitive dance in getting back to our sense of self. Even like the oneness that we carry with the collective universe if you will. When you can start tapping into your intuition, then you can tap into naturally that love-based vibrational state, but also even higher states than that. Enlightenment is actually, from a frequency standpoint, higher than a love vibration. They’re very close, but it is a different form of vibration.

Love is like a gold color, and enlightenment is like a silver, platinum color if you will. They hold different vibratory levels. But when you are following your intuition, when you can listen to the inner voice, and the best way to begin that process again is asking yourself questions, very simplistic ones, seeing how you feel — Do I feel like I should be going for a walk right now? Do I feel like I need to speak my truth to my partner right now? What needs to happen? How does that need to look? When you exercise that intuitive muscle, it gets so strong, and that intuitive state is your authentic self if you will. It’s that naturally love-based state, and so much more so you can tap into it on call, just sitting there tuning in.

It doesn’t have to be a meditation. I’m not great with meditating myself, but being able to say, “How do I feel right now? What does my intuition say I should do right now?” “How do I feel and what do I need to do?” — asking your intuition to get to that state of love because it might be different every day. Every day I wake up, maybe I’ll have a loop in my head, and I feel off because I’m thinking about something that I dreamt about, or I went to bed carrying the weight of. I might say, “I should go take a cold shower. That’s what I should always do every morning.” It might not get me into that state, and so instead, I have to sit for a second and say, “I’m trying to get here. I want to go to the love vibration. I want to feel good. What do I need to do?”

My intuition might say, “Go have a cup of tea, or do 20 squats, or take a cold shower,” and then I have to use my intuition to figure out which one do I need to lean into, so that one, I feel like I’m honoring myself, and two, I’m finding solutions that actually work. I’ve talked to so many people who are like, “I do affirmations every morning,” and then they’ll go through one of my programs and they’re like, “I don’t do affirmations at all anymore because I realized that I was just doing it cause I thought it was supposed to do it, and it doesn’t even do anything for me.” I’m like, “Awesome! Glad that your intuition came out and said, ‘Hey, you’re using that improperly,’ versus ‘I was just blindly following what the guru said to do.’”

[01:16:52] Ashley James: Affirmations was described to me once like putting icing on a mud pie. You’re just trying to tell your mind how it is instead of listening to your unconscious.


[01:16:52] Mandy Morris: Yeah, and if you tell your brain something that it perceives is a lie, you take five steps even further from that truth.


[01:17:09] Ashley James: Do you think affirmations are ever a positive thing to use as a tool or is it best to focus on asking questions and look into intuition?


[01:17:22] Mandy Morris: I think affirmations are awesome. I think it’s really hard for someone to write an affirmation for you unless they are literally embodying the energy. Just like when you learn from someone — they better be not just speaking of what you’re trying to obtain, but they better be embodying it. You can feel the difference.

You can feel when you’re talking to someone, and you’re like, “Man, they’re saying all the right things, but something’s missing.” And then you hear the same thing from someone else, and you’re like, “I freaking get it.” It’s because they’re embodying in which they speak.

It’s the same thing with affirmations. If I sit there every morning when I wake up and say, “I’m amazing. I’m this. I’m that.” Great. Do I really feel it? Am I bringing in the true frequency of it, or am I sending out the energy of “I am so not good enough. I’m not worthy.” My subconscious is feeding the energy outwards, but I’m verbally saying that when I’m creating a whole another mess.

That’s something that we talk about a lot with manifestation. We’re all manifesting all the time. People always say, “What are we going to manifest? Can you teach me how to manifest?” And I’m like, you are like everything. You already did it, but obviously, you don’t like it.

So what we need to figure out is what you’re unconsciously manifesting. What is your subconscious sending outward? What’s happening in the gray matter of your brain that you’re telling yourself you’re not worthy of all these things, that you’re sabotaging all the stuff you say you consciously want. That’s where the juice is. That’s where we want to find all the information. Your conscious mind processes like 0.0  1% of data or something like that and your subconscious processes so much more. So that’s where you’re getting all of your responses, your perceptions, all that crap. So you got to do all the work on the subconscious, not on the conscious affirmations. Which is why I’m like, I like affirmations, but if you’re not doing the actual work on figuring out why life is showing up as it is, and what you’re manifesting currently and why, there’s no information that’s going to save you.


[01:19:19] Ashley James: I hadn’t had a great experience with affirmations because of what you just described. And then I went through this neat little personal growth program. At that time, I found it very difficult to get to the gym. There was just a lot of resistance, a lot of unconscious resistance. It was very uncomfortable. The entire process from putting on my shoes to driving there, everything did not feel right. What I realized is that I’m right there back in junior high and everyone’s judging me. In my mind, it’s unsafe. I’m vulnerable. Everyone’s judging me. Everyone’s like, “Look at the fat girl. What the heck? She doesn’t belong here. Look, she just tripped.”

So it was very unsafe in grade seven.  Everyone’s hitting puberty, and it was a very unsafe place for me and for a lot of the girls to be. It was ridiculous because all the boys were picking on us. I decided it’s unsafe, you’re being judged, and of course, as we know, feeling socially judged in our mind is as dangerous as someone holding a spear and running at you. We perceive it as a physical threat to our survival probably because we had to live in a tribe to survive for thousands of years.

So I equated unconsciously going to the gym with like someone running at me with a spear. Of course, I was pushing. I was like Sisyphus pushing the boulder uphill consciously trying to fight — “Here I am.” Just like you said, the conscious mind is like 1-2%; the unconscious mind is the rest. It was consciously trying to push myself, but every day my unconscious mind is going, “No, it’s so unsafe.”

And then it was like, “How do I shift this conversation?” Here I am, I’m now in my 30s, I know that no one’s running at me with a spear, and even if every single person at the gym did judge me, no physical threat would happen. I was breaking it apart, dismantling this, and understanding it. And the next thing was, “Let’s just assume everyone is not judging you because everyone is actually afraid of each other anyway, and we’re all just like running around, worried about what each other thinks about each other.”

If that was the case, because we’re all just a bunch 13-year-olds really, unconsciously afraid of what everyone else thinks of us, so everyone in the gym is actually looking at you, worried about what you think of them, then what are you there to do and how can you shift it, so it’s a positive experience? I came up with this affirmation, and it hit me. I started crying because my life’s mission — I really got it at that moment — is to inspire people.

The conversation changes from, “Look at that fat girl. What is she doing here?” to “Wow, look at her. She got to the gym, and she’s doing it. Look, she’s even sweating. That’s so awesome. Now I’m going to push myself harder because I see how much she’s giving it.”

And so that was my mantra. As you said, if it’s an affirmation someone else made for you, that doesn’t help. But if you do some healing work and then create an affirmation to keep you present to your shift — and so as I’m putting my running shoes, I like to say, “I’m going there to inspire people. I’m obviously helping my body, but I’m going there to inspire people.”

Getting in the car, the resistance would still be there a little bit — a  little uneasy. Again, I’d have to tell my unconscious mind, “No, I’m going there to inspire people. There’s no one coming at me with their judgment. I’m there to inspire.” Sure enough, I’d look around the room, and obviously, there’s no one, judging me. Everyone is just head down trying to do their own thing and not worried about what everyone else thinks. I held my head higher after that. I felt more in touch with my purpose. I’m here to inspire people, and of course, help my body too.

So that mantra — repeating that affirmation became part of the healing, but I had to do the work first. I think that’s what you’re saying — do the work and then use your mantra as a way to keep yourself present to the self-love and your mission.


[01:23:57] Mandy Morris: Yeah. It has got to resonate with you. You have to use the energy in which you are striving to wrap around, just like words hold frequency. If I say the word  ‘infidelity’ or ‘cheating,’ there are certain things that some people are going to attach it to. There’s already an energy attached to it because each word holds a vibratory frequency, and so does affirmation.

We’ve got to make sure that they’re attached to the right energy. They are in resonance with what we’re talking about. I have to say this too, that sometimes we have negative affirmations that we’re unaware of to get to things. So we’ve got to address that. When you’re talking about the gym, it resonated so much with me.

In my early twenties, I would get cystic acne, like honking things, and they would hurt so bad. They were very stress-induced, and it would just perpetuate my “I hate myself-ness.” That was the time where I was like, I’d go to the gym and brutalize myself at work out as hard as I possibly could, and I was eating a certain way and all that. When my husband and I moved to Laguna Beach, I stopped doing those really hard workouts. We decided we’re going to get a personal trainer — “We’re in California. We’re going to be in shape,” right before I get pregnant. And so, uh, I had a short bit while we first moved here and, I was doing some training, and my body would hurt so bad after the workout, so it just felt different.

Maybe because it’s I’m older now or whatever, I was in the middle of a squat — a very hard squat, mind you — and as I pushed myself up, I heard my inner voice say, “I hate you.” I stopped and I put my weights down, and I said, “I’m leaving.” I actually had to leave. I stopped working out, and I sat there for about two hours that day, just trying to shake it off. For some reason, I didn’t fully go and dive into it.

The next day I had two cysts on my face, and I hadn’t had them in years. I was like, “Did I release the same neurohormones or whatever chemicals that create the cystic acne?” I released it just from me going back into that old state where I was in when I could barely push through the last of a workout. I would use that “I hate myself energy to push through to make myself ”good enough.”


[01:26:24]  Ashley James: Wow.


[01:26:26] Mandy Morris: Isn’t that crazy? So I was like, “I’m done working out. We’ll do yoga.” I’m not pushing myself like this anymore.


[01:26:37] Ashley James: Wow. It’s awesome. There you go again with “We are always manifesting.” But we have to clean up that windshield. We got to clean up the unconscious filters, the unconscious programs because that’s where we’re manifesting from.


[01:26:53] Mandy Morris: Right, always. It’s always showing up for us. If we can figure out the conversation we’re having with our environment and our mind, we are unstoppable.


[01:27:05] Ashley James: That’s why I said at the beginning we all have a superpower, and Mandy is going to teach us how to tap into it.


[01:27:12] Mandy Morris: Literally, it is in knowing yourself. It was Socrates, I think, — know thyself. If you can truly start understanding your thoughts, be willing to hear them and why they occur, you have like the power of the universe in your hands because that’s how you create your holographic reality regardless.

If you can understand how you perceive the world and what’s going on, kind of that part of assuming responsibility and not being a victim, and realizing that you don’t have to be in control, but you can be in charge, and those are two very different things. I’m not in control of every component of my life, but I am in charge of my reality and everything else. The chips fall perfectly every time, far more than I could ever control them. Understanding what triggers me, what upsets me, what causes me to shut down or tell myself that I don’t like myself — if I can start understanding those pieces, then I can start stopping them in their tracks, which means that my brain’s wiring is going to start to shift. Certain neurological pathways are going to start pruning, and new ones are going to start growing. Wouldn’t it be funny if the new ones that start growing are, “I’m amazing. I believe in myself. I deserve to be a multimillionaire. I deserve to find my soul partner. I deserve love.”  Guess what always shows up? Exactly what we expect.

We’re changing our expectation by understanding what our current expectation is. Through that, our purpose work, whatever sets your soul on fire — you call it a superpower and so much love — all of that births itself naturally. It’s a part of your authenticity. It’s a part of your truth. You don’t have to search for it. It’s just going to unfold.


[01:29:02] Ashley James: What homework can you give us so that we can allow our authenticity and our authentic self to begin to unfold in the coming days. ?


[01:29:13] Mandy Morris: This is something that probably a lot of people have done, but I want to take a twist on it. First that belief inventory. Maybe start with the areas of life that suck. Let’s say money. Everybody cares about money, right? So you could do money; you can do relationships and career. Just write down — not your beliefs because sometimes we think we have beliefs, but we don’t. Like for myself, if you ask me consciously years ago, “What are your beliefs of love?” I’d be like, “Love is so beautiful, and love is great.” But you’d look at my relationships, and it would show love doesn’t last. Love is completely unsafe. Love is unhealthy, and love is self-sacrificial.

And so we have to look at our environment. When you have those areas, write down how your environment looks in those areas, and then that will establish your true beliefs. So then you’ll know, “If I’m in an unhealthy relationship, or I’m devalued at work or whatever the thing is, then the belief is probably this, that or the other.” Now what you’ll see is that there’s usually a theme.

If I took multiple areas, actually just before we jumped on, I was talking to a couple of therapists that I’m certifying right now. And when we were on the call, we know we were talking about this concept of what is actually going on here. The underlying theme for one of them was the “not good enough-ness.” In all areas, it could be as a mother; it could be as a therapist, and also the other side gigs that they had going on, there was this constant stream of “not good enough-ness.”

So once you see, “I do not like myself,” you ask this question — it’s like a five-year-old. You know how five-year-olds are like, “Why, why, why?” You ask yourself why until you get to the root.

You can say: My job sucks.

Okay, why?    Because people don’t value me.

Why? Because I don’t value myself.

Why? Because I’m overweight.

Okay, why? Because of something that happened in seventh grade.

What was the belief it was created from that? Why?

Well, my mom didn’t love me.

Why do you think your mom didn’t love you?

Because I’m unlovable.

Okay. Now we’ve reached a pretty big root, and kind of what you were saying when you cried because you had the aha moment, it’s amazing what happens when the brain realizes it’s hit on something.

You’ll know when you’re like, “I don’t know. Is that it? It’s not it.” But there’s this incredible aha moment that happens every time someone starts hitting a root. What you’re looking for are the roots. What are the roots of your belief? Sometimes you might reach an event that you remember, but what you’re looking for is the underlying belief. You might say love isn’t safe, but there’s something deeper than that, and it always has to do with the self.

So when you write down that belief inventory, your actions, and then you find kind of that core belief — there might be a theme. It might be the not good enough-ness runs through in all areas. Now you’ve got to look for lies, basically broken parts of the reality, so that’s two-fold. One is to look at all of the rewards you receive for holding onto that belief.

So if I go back to that “I hate myself” energy in the gym, my reward was that I would look a certain way because I would make sure that I kept working out because I thought that if I worked out hard enough, eventually I’d love myself. And then I also got to keep — I thought at least — the guy that I was dating around because maybe he liked the way that my body looked. That was the only thing I had to offer. That’s a perceived reward. It’s obviously not a healthy reward that I should hold on to, but it’s a reward that’s keeping me from changing.

But once you pour awareness into it, it’s not so rewarding anymore. You’re like, “Oh, crap, it’s not even getting me where I want to go.” Once the brain knows the path I am using will never get me there, it doesn’t want to keep doing the same thing. So then you get to start breaking down that wall and build through to the new reality.

If I want to be a millionaire, or if I want to be with my soulmate, what does that version of me do in these situations? How do they perceive life? What actions do they take on a daily basis and how can I kind of push that back into me so that I can create that reality too?

[01:33:51] Ashley James: Brilliant. It’s beautiful.


[01:33:54] Mandy Morris: Thank you.


[01:33:55] Ashley James: I like that you’re coming at it from both ends, digging into the now and getting to the root, but then also doing the future pacing, looking at you after you have manifested what you want and what are you doing, what are you thinking to yourself, what are you feeling, and seeing.

The one that you haven’t mentioned is what about someone who wants better health? Let’s say running a marathon — it would be, “I’m a marathon runner.”

I don’t think I’ve ever run five miles, so I like to say that I’m a marathon runner.


[01:34:38] Mandy Morris: The brain would be like, “That’s not true.”


[01:34:40] Ashley James: Right. Me in the future as a marathon motor, what am I doing every day? I’m getting up early. I’m drinking a smoothie. I’m going for a jog.  Oh, wow, those are activities I can start to do now. What am I thinking to myself? What are my beliefs about myself?


[01:34:56] Mandy Morris: It’s calling upon our future self basically. When I do sit through my very short meditations, I’ll ring up versions of me. I’ve rung up my billionaire self, and I’m like, “I need some business advice,” or I’ll ring up the version of me that has figured out the problem with my husband or with my kiddo, and I’m like, “What’s going on here?” And really what I’m doing is I’m just opening up another part of my brain that I might be in a primal state or a triggered persona and it can only see through one lens while I’m shifting my perspectives.

When you can shift some of your perspectives, but the information still comes from within, then you’re tapping into that part of yourself that already has the answer, that knows the whole process in which your crazy brain is going to want you to go, and then it allows for it to flow. It seems intuitive, but you’re just meeting all of the brain’s rules that it has to achieve the thing.


[01:35:49] Ashley James: You reminded me that we have 10-11 possible neurological connections. That is more potential than every grain of sand on every beach in the world. That’s more potential than every known planet and star in the universe. When you get how many potential neurological connections are in our brain, and our whole body’s neurology has, you see that we have this machine inside of us for manifesting and tapping.

I love this idea of tapping in by ringing up your billionaire herself, your marathon runner self, the self that has resolved conflict with your husband, ringing up that person, and talking to that part of you that has resolved it already is tapping into this dormant part of you, your superpowers, waiting for you to use them.


[01:36:57] Mandy Morris: Yes, we already have the answers.


[01:37:00] Ashley James: That brings up the idea that there’s that level of intuition that people connect with guides and angels, they’re tapping into sometimes more than themselves by asking these questions and being open to the answers.


[01:37:16] Mandy Morris: Absolutely. You can look at it any way you want. You can say that it’s your guide. You can say that it’s your angel. You can say it’s god. You can say that it’s just your brain opening up certain parts and giving you the information. If you ask yourself a question, you are going to always get the answer. It’s just a matter of what filters or what lenses do you have on. Are you even willing to see the answer that’s right in front of you?


[01:37:39] Ashley James: It’s beautiful, Mandy. Now, your book “Love: It’s How I Manifest” — who should read that book? Is that book for therapists or is that book for lay people? Is that book for everyone? Who should read it and, and what do we get out of reading your book?


[01:37:55] Mandy Morris: If you had asked me when I first wrote it if it was for therapists, I would say no. But I’ve had a ton of therapists say that they love it because my section of methodology is the missing component in therapy is what I hear. That’s the feedback that I receive, and I’m very humbled and honored by that. But I would say that it’s the starting guide for someone who wants to start digging in on a kind of a high level, in my opinion, into 30 different concepts. It’s kind of a month-long journey. I broke it up to where you can read a chapter a day, and you’ll take a little bit of homework from it if you will. There is a little prayer to the universe for those who love those affirmations.

I sat every time I wrote the book, and I wouldn’t even let the editor touch it. I was driving them insane. I actually chose to self-publish for that reason because I was like, “I wrote the book in three months. I’m inspired one day, and my mind said, “You will only write when you’re inspired, and you will pour so much love into every word, and it can’t be changed.” And so I honored that. At the end of those three months, I was like, “I’m sorry to every poor editor who has to look through my grammatical incorrectness here, but it’s got to stay this way and stay intact because there’s something to it.”

I don’t know that everybody has read the book, but the feedback that we get is that they can feel the energy because I tried to stamp it into each word. It’s like a high-level guide of a 30-day journey of diving into yourself, understanding yourself, and figuring out all the concepts that we talked about — love versus fear, living consciously, assuming responsibility, how to know yourself, and how to find that version of you that is that piece. That’s my ultimate goal — that people can be brought back to that piece, that love, that oneness, and to remember their incredible power to create.

That was the whole reason I wrote the book because as soon as it was done, I was like, “I did it. What’s up next universe? Do I need to do anything else?“ I forgot about the book for a while until it was released to the public. It’s a beautiful book filled with love, but I would say that it is an incredible starting point to a journey.


[01:40:18] Ashley James: Brilliant. Well, I’m excited to have the link to your book in the show notes of the podcast so all the listeners can check it out. Are you going to do an audio version of your book?


[01:40:29] Mandy Morris: I keep saying that I will. I think my support told me there’s like ten emails just from today asking if they can get an audio version, so I will be doing it. I feel like it should be from me. I’m hoping that in the next maybe 90 days, we’ll have one out. But right now it’s just Kindle and hardback.


[01:40:50] Ashley James: Nice. I’m looking forward to that. It’s so great when the author herself reads her book. I love audio books as much as I love reading, but I love it when the author goes off script because they get inspired. So they’re reading their book, but then they’re like — you might feel like doing that, going a little bit off script. There are a few great authors like Janine Roth. When I listened to her audiobooks, I’m like, “She can’t be reading. This feels so real.” Her message is pouring through, and you’re like, “This can’t be a book.” I feel like she’s just sitting here talking to me, like talking to myself as an individual. It lands so powerfully. There’s something very–


[01:41:32] Mandy Morris: That will be me.


[01:41:33] Ashley James: I know it will be you, Mandy. I know it. I just know. I feel like you’re just sitting there right there with me listening to your audiobook. But until then, we’ll get your physical book or the Kindle version.

Like you, I was surprised at how many therapists enjoy your book. I have been pleasantly surprised at how many holistic health professionals are listeners of the show. Because these are people who I sometimes put on a pedestal and honor and love learning from, and then it turned around, I get fan mail from them. I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, naturopaths listen to my show, and acupuncturists, nurses, and traditional Chinese medicine practitioners, health coaches — so many wonderful holistic health professionals.”

Thinking about going through your program, tell us a bit about the mechanics of going through your program as a health coach or a doctor who wants to implement your tools. How long is your program? How much does it cost? What format is it? Is it just audio, or is it video calls or reading case studies? Can you unpack it a bit, so we understand a bit more about your online program?


[01:42:59] Mandy Morris: Absolutely. We have many digital programs, but if someone’s looking to get certified in some of my methodologies, it’s a four-month program. That’s as of right now. We have now three graduating classes. I finally created this program, and like all programs I create, I want a lot of feedback, and I want to make it so juicy that it’s unstoppable.

We’ve actually done three classes, and now we have three graduating classes and amazing outcomes even from the very first class. But I like to leave it open to say, “Hey, guys. I might add a lot of bonus content,” and anyone who’s gone through the program prior, they get access to all that too because I want the best versions of themselves out there.

As of right now, it’s a four-month program. The first two months are actually on them working on themselves. I don’t go into methodologies — not directly at least because my idea is, if we want to get people out of the chair as soon as possible, if I can sit there in three hours and get someone’s heart disease to reverse, then we’ve got to be able to create change within 30 days and so forth, which is not the typical model. Sometimes it’s totally appropriate to work with someone for six months or ninety days, or whatever that looks like. But I want them to at least have the tools that they can do that. A part of that is that if you are consistently growing and working on yourself, you will constantly acquire tools without having to pay to learn them from someone else.

So I kind of worked myself out of a job, if you will, because the world needs to be healed. That’s my first and foremost goal. That program is for the first half of it is them just hammering in on themselves with an accountability partner. And then we jump into methodologies, practice calls. I or one of my Academy-based coaches who’ve been through years of training with me, they will be on a call, and we provide feedback there. They learn a lot of the methodologies that are love-based, and we go into some personality styles.

We don’t touch on any mental disorders and so forth because again, I’m not a certified therapist or psychiatrist. I decided not to go that route, so we don’t touch on crazy red tape. But every therapist that has gone through the program and really just any practitioner in general — we do have a lot of Reiki healers and just different versions of holistic health as well that goes through the program — and all of them say it either totally enhanced something that they’ve learned, or it was what was missing all along.

But it’s delivered in an online format, so it’s digital. We’ve got folks from all over the world — really cool. But different times zones if they’re in Australia, the UK, or Thailand, we can all pop on live. And then we do Q&A and try to work that around schedules so that some people can jump on live, but they’re recorded regardless, and then they get access to. I would say it’s probably maybe two to three hours a week of training. When they hit their practice hours, it obviously amps up quite a bit.


[01:46:09] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now you have other programs as well. Can you touch on that? Do you have programs for people who want their personal healing?


[01:46:19] Mandy Morris: Yes. So there’s a program called authentic creation. It’s like my baby program. I built it years ago, and it’s such a wonderful –I don’t know. I rant and rave about it cause I love the concept. It’s for thirty days. It’s short, like five to ten-minute videos every day and then a PDF and homework. It’s really digestible, which is for me, my attention span — I tailored it for someone like myself where I’m not going to sit for five hours and do a class. Everything digital kind of follows that modality for the most part, and then we have a mastery program and that is instead of the thirty-day program, it’s a, uh, two-month program, and we extend it two extra weeks usually, so we do about ten weeks. That is a deep, deep, deep dive into rewiring our beliefs. It’s hard work. It’s a lot heavier work I would say. But it’s incredible.

And then I just released a Health for Higher Consciousness program, how can you impact your consciousness level through health. It’s not a diet program or a fitness program, but it’s truly impacting our cellular vitality and some of the stuff that I learned in the clinic back in the day.

And then we’re about to release a parenting program. I partnered with an amazing doctor, and she’s very much into the neuroscience, behind the child’s brain, and has the whole brain methodology. And so her and I partnered together to create a parenting program because my folks kept asking for it, and I was like, “I don’t think I’m the best parent for this, but let me bring in someone who is. She’s an expert.”


[01:47:58] Ashley James: That’s awesome. That’s so cool. I love when you were talking earlier about the mirror neurons. It reminded me of my son. My husband, who’s normally a very cool headed person, like any human, will become overwhelmed from our four-year-old. We have a wonderful four-year-old boy who is just bubbly and just the light of our lives. He will also be a wonderful boundary pusher because he’s assertive, and he’s a great negotiator. We just applaud him.

He’s definitely an Aries. He’s just out there, and he’s going to be a leader and take charge of the world. But at every turn, he will do his best to get his way, which is perfect for an assertive person. We have to learn how to navigate that without totally squashing him. Our stuff comes up, and my husband will be caught in his frustration, and that’ll be out there.

A typical example, my husband will drive home with our son, and he’ll be on the phone with me, and he’s like, “Okay, we’re in meltdown mode. You know, I don’t know what to do with the kid.” The kid in the back seat is just like freaking out, throwing his shoes, yelling, and my husband is at the same level.  You could hear it. Our son and my husband — both the frequency happening. Just a few years difference between the two of them.

I’m on the speakerphone, I start talking to him, and when you said that about mirror neurons, I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, it’s what I do with him. I’m like, ‘Okay, I’m the calm, loving energy.’ It doesn’t matter whether he threw a stick or hit a kid or whatever, part of me wants to discipline him. The mom in me that thinks, “He did something wrong. We need to immediately correct it,” that voice has its place over here, but that’s not where I’m coming from right now. I’m coming from just love and getting him calmed down and talked to him. And within a minute, he stops crying. He stops throwing his shoes, that kind of thing. And my husband’s like, “How do you do that? I don’t understand.” I keep saying, “We have to stop reacting, and we have to act how we want him to act.” We can’t just tell him; you can’t tell someone calm down. It’s like shaking them, “Calm down. Calm down.” We’re not calm. Why do we think they’re going to be calm?

And so it’s just so funny that it works to help to bring them down and make them feel safe. And that works with adults too. It works with children. But I love that you’re partnering with a parenting expert because, of course, you can bring all your tools of bringing love to the situation and teaching the mirror neurons and helping us to catch ourselves when our stuff is coming up from our past. And cause I can see it in my husband’s. It’s easy to see it in others. I’ve got some of my blinders. It’s so easy for me to see like, “Oh yeah, I can see that how you’re treating our son right now is totally from your childhood when you were 12, and your dad did this.” I can just see it.

But of course he can’t write, but I’m sure he can see my stuff, and I can catch myself sounding just like my parents. I’m like, “Oh, my gosh. I’m bringing conflict that I hadn’t resolved from when I was six with my parents, and I’m bringing that to the current situation with our son.”

Your lessons to help us to catch it — to pause, to stop reacting and to be able to process, so that we are being authentic in the now with our children rather than projecting our past unresolved material onto them or our negative belief systems about the world onto them, and when they’re reactive, they’re coming from the energy that we’re holding at the moment. Kids don’t do what we say; they do what we do.


[01:52:14] Mandy Morris: We got to look at that. When we’re in a heightened state of anxiety, we’re in fight/flight, freeze/faint, and children go into that primal state even faster because they lack the tools to be like, “Is this a normal feeling or not?” And so if we are in a state of stress or even worse — and this one is, it’s no guilt or shame to any parents.” We’ve got to get out of the whole mom and dad guilt thing. No one can perfectly not program their child in some way. That’s not what happens. That’s okay. But when we get ourselves into that state of, “I’m calm with him right now,” but you’re raging on the inside, again they can feel it. And so then what are we teaching them? Yeah, we might not blow up on them — that’s great.

But there’s another step we can take to that, which is we have to resolve what’s going on internally within ourselves so that we don’t project the next belief on the child, which is they try to get the love and connection in an unhealthy way. They can feel something’s wrong, but they don’t trust their feelings because mom says she’s fine, but I don’t feel like she’s fine. I must be wrong in the way I feel. We create a crazy program in our children without realizing it in our attempt to love and serve them. It’s okay to be like, “I’m really frustrated buddy, and I’m going to take a minute. I need a brain break,” or “This is what I’ve got to do right now to take care of me, and that’s it.”  Just being honest and authentic in front of our children is far more important. It holds us to a higher standard than just pretending that it’s going to be okay.


[01:53:44] Ashley  James: That’s beautiful because you’re teaching them emotional intelligence.


[01:53:48] Mandy Morris: Yes. Versus shutting them off and not trusting how they feel. Where does that go in life, right?


[01:53:55] Ashley James: Now, the program you talked about right before we talked about the parenting one, that piqued my interest greatly. Can you tell us a bit about that one — the one about healing physically?


[01:54:05] Mandy  Morris: Yes, Health for Higher Consciousness. This was a program that folks have been asking me for a long time. One, because of course my personal journey into finding true health, but also the work that I did clinically, I understand the physical body at such a deep level and the cool scientists and doctors that I got to bump brains with. And so I created a 21-day program, and this was just released. So again, I’m going to be adding to it and making it much fuller as time goes on. But I released it to just a few folks, and somehow it spread, and so many people bought it. I’m like, “Wait, I wanted feedback first.”

They’re currently going through the round of it, and we’ve had amazing feedback for it. It’s this 21-day journey. It could very well in the next few months turn into a thirty-day or something different. Again, we want to tailor it to how do we create change. But as of right now it’s twenty-one different lessons on different factors — kind of hidden factors a lot of times to obtaining true health that also elevates our emotional, mental, psychological states.

And you know, I say elevating our consciousness, all of those factors that we don’t think about, we think it’s as simple as exercising and eating right. If you’re just on looking physically a certain way, and perhaps that’s the case, but there’s so much more that comes into play in our health and just like bodily self-love, and things that we don’t think about or that we don’t practice as often as we should. And so it’s kind of a deep dive into crazy different factors spread out into different realms that sometimes people are like, “I didn’t even think that this would be in a health program.”  But it’s in there because it does play a huge vital role in our brain health or just our consciousness.


[01:55:54] Ashley James: Brilliant. I’m interested in learning more from you. I love all the work you’re doing. I so believe in that. I so believe in the power of the mind to heal and the power of the mind to create disease.


[01:56:10] Mandy Morris: Thank you so much.


[01:56:11] Ashley James: Absolutely. You’ve been helping people for years and helping people to heal their body, heal their mind. He’ll heal their emotions, get to a place of manifesting what they want and then stop manifesting what they don’t want. So that’s just wonderful. Um, your superpowers, love, and now you’ve taught us how to start to use our newly found superpower. Thank you so much, Mandy Morris. Your website is and listeners can go there, check out all the wonderful programs, and of course, we’ll make sure that the links to everything that Mandy does are in the show notes of today’s podcast at

Mandy, is there anything you’d like to say to the listeners tapping into your superpower? Is there anything that you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?


[01:56:56] Mandy Morris: I would and going off the cuff here, but whenever someone looks at their superpower or the thing that they want to create in the world or the perception of what they are, it’s always so much grander and so much bigger than the human mind can ever conceive. And that’s why living in that heart space, and that genuine authenticity, that authentic livelihood that we all have within ourselves when you tap into that, and I hope that everyone who’s listening never, ever gives up on the journey to continuing to discover those parts of yourself. It’s a constant growth and evolution. It’s not a final destination. If you’ve reached your final destination, you’re probably six feet under, so grant yourself the beauty of the journey, of the growth. Know that you’re getting 1% better or more educated or just discovering more of yourself every day, and it’s a beautiful, beautiful and incredibly rewarding thing to do, and I am rooting for you 100% of the way you deserve a beautiful life, and anything else that you experienced is suspect.

[01:58:03] Ashley James: Awesome. Mandy, thank you so much for coming on the show, and you are welcome to come back anytime you’d like a platform and an audience to convey your lessons. We’d love to have you again and continue learning from you.


[01:58:17] Mandy Morris: Thank you so much. You’re so amazing. I had so much fun. I appreciate it.


[01:58:20] Ashley James: Are you going to optimize your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to, and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best. Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.

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Adam Schaeuble  And Ashley James

Adam Schaeuble, PHD (Previously Heavy Dude) is back with a very exciting project. Once again, Adam unleashes his superpower to create a community. He brings together experts online to educate us on the “right tool for the right job at the right time” in our quest for weight loss and true health. Tune in and find out more about Million Pound Mission University.


[00:00:14] Ashley James: I am so excited for today’s interview. We have back on the show, Adam Schaeuble. He earned his Ph.D. as a previously heavy dude. He originally was here with us in Episode 212, and it was so amazing to hear his story of personal transformation and of helping his entire town lose thousands of pounds and then go on his mission to help people all around the world lose a million pounds.

Man, Adam, you have such great traction going on. How’s it going?


[00:00:50] Adam Schaeuble: Ashley, first off, thank you so much for inviting me back. I have to tell you something really cool. A year and a half ago was when we did that first interview — I believe it’s September or October — that was the first big-audience interview. You’re the first person that said, “Yes, Adam, I want to share my platform with you and help you get your message out there.” It’s just been like rocket ship momentum ever since you said yes. So my friend, first off, thank you so much for helping propel this growth that I’m seeing.


[00:01:21] Ashley James: Absolutely. I love your mission. I believe in it. I’m definitely one of your fans. I love how you take a holistic approach to create a healthy body we want and help people to implement. Really, it’s all about whether rubber hits the road with you.

I definitely recommend listeners go back and check out Episode 212 where we dove into Adam’s story. But to reiterate, how many pounds did you help people lose in your town?


[00:01:57] Adam Schaeuble: I went on a journey where I went from 327 pounds down to sub 220s, so I lost over 100 pounds. People are starting to ask me to help them, and I found the boot camp in my hometown of Bloomington, Indiana, and we did thirty-five thousand pounds in five years and just rocked it. It’s awesome.


[00:02:15] Ashley James: There are great before-and-after pictures. But it’s more than just weight loss. You helped people to transform their lives mentally, emotionally, spiritually. This so resonates with our listeners because this podcast is about helping us to transform our whole lives so that we have physical health, emotional health, spiritual health, or energetic. We have better relationships.

If you’re trapped in a body that is unhealthy, and if you feel stuck in life with some excess weight, then the weight necessarily isn’t the root cause, but we have to get to the root cause by helping us to make these great lifestyle changes. I know that you love to focus on that.

One thing I’ve been impressed by is that you are an expert obviously in helping people to gain healthy weight. You’re a great personal trainer, motivational coach, and health coach, and you also love to bring in experts that help people in different areas.

You’re bringing in all these experts, much like this show. You’ve put together a program that I’m really impressed by, and I was so honored that you invited me to come to speak at your program. Can you tell us about the Million Pound Mission University?


[00:03:35] Adam Schaeuble: Yeah. Ashley, one of the concepts I’m working hard on is I talk to people every day, just like you do — people that are in the trenches trying to change their life. There is a lot of confusion going on around all the experts like us who go on podcasts and have podcasts.

I actually did a whole podcast about this I called “Overcoming Fitness Podcast Overwhelm.” This is a real condition. It’s going to be like texting thumb and stuff like that. This is going to be a condition moving forward in our society, where people have a goal.

Maybe they’re like, “I want to lose fifty pounds because that’s going to help me reclaim control of my health.” But they listen to one podcast on Monday. It’s more like a paleo-based podcast, and they start paleo on Monday. But then they hear the Weight Watchers podcast on Wednesday, and they switched to Weight Watchers, and then intermittent fasting on Friday, and they’re bouncing around full of confusion.

What adds to it is that a lot of these experts are arguing with each other back and forth over whose program is the best, “My program is better, and that program, if you do that thing, then you’re going to die of a heart attack for sure.” And so we’re bickering amongst each other as a lot of these experts. Right now, keto versus vegan is a big deal. People are really getting nasty about it.

It’s like we’re missing the point of the people that we’re trying to help. It’s not keto versus vegan. It’s keto, vegan, paleo, Weight Watchers, CrossFit, yoga, and whatever against being unhealthy. That’s the battle.

I know you’re of the same mindset. I am more of a, “Let’s find the right program of the right fit for this season of your transformation,” because I’m not Team Keto guy. I use the ketogenic diet when it makes sense to me, but I can also go vegan. I can also do a clean eating plan. I can do intermittent fasting. It’s the right tool for the right job at the right time, and that’s what I’m trying to promote with this educational event I put together called Million Pound Mission University.

We’re bringing in experts from all the different walks of the transformation game. We’ve got paleo experts. We’ve got Weight Watchers experts. We have anti-anxiety experts, neurolinguistic programming experts. We work on the mind. We work on the transformation protocol. We work on the different nutritional and physical options.

I just feel like I want to create a space where we can bring all these different experts to be experts and not competing against each other. It’s all towards that common good of let’s give people the tools that they can select from when it makes sense and then implement to reclaim control over their health, and that’s what it’s all about.


[00:06:24] Ashley James: I love it. Listeners can check out Adam’s Million Pound Mission University by going to I’m going to make it easy for everyone to remember the URL. So, and of course, the links to everything that Adam does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at

Since you launched the university which was about a week ago, you have had some amazing feedback. I know you just started basically. You just launched it. You have a dozen or more experts in your university so far. As you’ve been doing these interviews with these experts, what lessons have you learned? Can you walk us through and teach us some things that you were just really taken aback by and excited by?


[00:07:16] Adam Schaeuble: I get freaked out with every interview. I’m so passionate about learning just like you. That’s why we’re such good friends, Ashley. We’re both very passionate about learning and then teaching people what we learn.

Right now, I’ve got eighteen lessons loaded up, and we’re adding more every single month. But somebody Alexa Schirm from the Simple Roots Radio podcast, she did a presentation about the effect of environmental stress on our hormones, body fat gain, weight loss, how those things impact us, as simple as whether we eat standing up or sitting down, and how that can impact our fat gain or fat loss. I started telling everybody. I’m like “Do not stand up. You need to be sitting down. Do not drive while you eat.” All these things. Just picking the brains of experts like that is amazing

And then you did some great work. I already have some great compliments on your topic when you talked about how to use NLP — neurolinguistic programming, which is a phrase that I love to say and not screw up — and how to combat anxiety with that. People are already taking this for a week, and I’ getting feedback on, “Dang, Adam, this really is working. This is making a difference.” We really focus on implementation.

Ashley, when I brought you on, I said, “This isn’t a podcast interview. This isn’t us talking about your life story and background.” We’ve done that. This is you going for thirty to forty-five minutes on a topic and just teach, give homework, and challenge them to implement this. You totally delivered. You had some great downloads and all that stuff. But again, this isn’t like a video version of podcasts. This is a real teaching and learning experience of the people that signed up. That’s what the goal is, and that’s the goal that we’re achieving so far. Great feedback. Implementation has been great in its first week, and I can’t wait to see what happens a month or six months down the road.


[00:09:27] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now, to take you back to what you just mentioned that you were excited by — I have a naturopath who goes down a checklist. Every time you go to see her, she gives a checklist of things to make sure you’re doing the foundations of health. I’ve talked about some of her foundations of health before. One thing she always makes sure, especially women, young mothers, that you’re not doing the eating while standing. So many mothers will eat their dinner while standing over the sink because they fed one kid, they’re about to feed the other kids, the husband just got home, and they’re sitting there shoving food in their mouth. I’ve caught myself doing that as I’m putting the leftovers away, eating while doing that. You’re standing and eating because “I didn’t get to sit down and have dinner. I was busy cooking, cleaning, and feeding everyone else,” and thinking, “I’m probably eating less standing up.” That little voice in my mind goes, “This is probably healthier. I’m not sitting down to have a meal, so I’m probably eating less. This is probably better to stand and eat and graze as we run through the house.”

No, it isn’t. Can you tell us a bit about why driving while eating, standing while eating, or eating at our desk, or eating in front of a TV going to negatively impact our hormones and our weight gain?


[00:10:56] Adam Schaeuble: The way Alexa described it to me is that basically, we’re igniting one of our two nervous system responses — our parasympathetic or the sympathetic. It’s that fight or flight, or the rest and digest. We want to be in rest and digest when we are eating, that way we can digest the food properly. It makes sense, right?

These all start to click when she described it this way. I’m like, “This makes sense.” When we are driving a car, 90% of the time, we’re in fight or flight because that is how we travel. That’s our basic primal instinct. To get from Point A to Point B, we use that fight or flight response.

If we’re sitting there shoving even healthy food, the calories will be shuttled off more towards fat storage because when we’re in fight or flight mode, our body is like, “We’re going to need those calories later for survival.” Instead of a relaxed state, sitting down, she even recommended not watching TV. Listening to something is better. Reading something is better, or just sitting and relaxing.

What I’ve been doing, I try to get myself in as relaxed of a state as possible right before I eat. I’ve been doing these mini meditation sessions, even if it’s two or three minutes long, to bring my heart rate down, center myself, and really put myself in relaxation mode, and then I eat my meal. Sometimes I listen to a podcast like Learn True Health with Ashley James. It seems like it’s making a difference from a digestive perspective. I don’t feel bloated after I eat, which is crazy. Just sitting or standing, the difference that makes, it’s unbelievable. The science makes sense to me.


[00:12:45] Ashley James: That reminds me to come back to as we grew up. Maybe you grew up in your household praying at the dinner table. Maybe you went to a friend’s house, and their family prayed at the dinner table. I lived at Kripalu for a little bit, which, I believe, is one of the largest yoga residential centers in the United States, and it’s in Berkshire, Massachusetts. I highly recommend going. It’s a total trip.

It houses about two hundred people at a time, and it was an old Jesuit seminary in the Berkshire, so it’s really beautiful. They have this huge dining hall. It’s all vegan, organic, wonderful and super delicious food. I’d look around, and people would be sitting there in silent meditation with their food, they’d be praying with their food, and sometimes they even give their food Reiki. Their hands are not touching their food, but more like a healing touch. The hands were hovering over their food as they were meditating for a few minutes, praying, and just centering themselves. I look around, and it’s like, “Oh, my gosh. This is so cool.” People were taking this time to be with their food and center themselves before they began to eat.

I’ve seen these military movies where they’re like, “Eat your food now and taste it later. Come on, soldiers.” That’s me. I’m like, “Go, go, go,” and then it’s gone and your brain doesn’t even have a chance to catch up with you, so you still feel hungry. I heard once it takes 20 minutes for the brain to recognize that we’ve had enough food, and so if you shove food in your mouth really fast, then you could be overeating for 20 minutes basically before your brain goes, “Whoa! Give way. We’ve got enough calories now. We’re fine.”Coming back to what you said about the stress response, I believe that when we’re in the fight or flight mode, our body is creating more insulin to fuel the muscles so that we can run away from the bear. If we’re eating while in that mode, then insulin is the hormone that helps us to create fat. When insulin is present, we are more likely to store energy as fat.

That’s very interesting. We need to get into that state where we’re in rest and digest mode, where we’re in the parasympathetic nervous system response of being calm and centered, taking some deep breaths, sometimes even chewing the food, putting the fork down, and pausing. That’s almost a ritual of self-love — to take that 30 minutes to eat our food for ourselves, listening to some music and being calm. It’s an activity that we can do to love ourselves.

I’ve had some people in the Learn True Health Facebook group; we talked about the importance of chewing food and what it does physiologically because none of us chew our food enough. There was someone who said it changed her digestion. She started chewing her food again. Chew it for ten, twenty, thirty times a bite, and it completely changed her digestion. I thought that was really neat — something as simple. We all know to do it, but do we do it?

[00:16:20] Adam Schaeuble: It comes back to that word — implementation.


[00:16:23] Ashley James: What’s another difference? You mentioned implementation. We come into your Million Pound Mission University. We learn from all these experts, but what’s going to help us implement what we learn, and what’s going to help us to figure out what path is best for us?


[00:16:47] Adam Schaeuble: One of my superpowers that I’ve discovered recently is that I am good at creating community. It now makes sense when I think back. This is what I did with my hometown. When we said we’ll lose thirty-five pounds, I created community, accountability, support, and implementation. I cultivated that environment.

I’ve done that with different online platforms. This is just that next one that I’m going to infuse and make it a bit different than the normal online summit that you would attend, where you get great information, you get entertained, but the implementation is very low, and I want to correct that.

We’re doing monthly round-table discussions via Zoom chat so that we can get people on there. I’m going to connect with people and go, “Which lesson resonated with you?” We’ll go through maybe, “It’s Ashley James,” maybe “It’s Sean Mulroney” — who knows what really connects. Then I’m going to go, “What is your first action step? What are you doing in line with this inspiration? How are you making progress in this? How can we get you in action heading towards that goal that you want to achieve?.” There will be some strategy. There will be some implementation.

The other cool thing is that all my professors — that’s what I’m calling my instructors, so Professor Ashley James — are invited to attend as well. These people that are getting hundreds of thousands of downloads, I’ve got eighteen of the top health podcasters in the world right now that are hard to reach. It’s not always super easy to reach somebody. Danny Vega has fifty thousand Instagram followers. If you send him an Instagram message, he may get it, he may not.

But if we bring him in, and you can talk to him in a small group — I’m keeping this at 25 people or less with the chats, and we’ll do multiple options per month — but connecting with your professors, connecting with each other, and then me as a ringleader of implementation, making sure that we are truly coming up with action steps out of these lessons, implementing those, and just checking in on a monthly basis to create that community. I think that’s the special sauce that comes with this event.


[00:18:59] Ashley James: Wonderful. Can you share any more tidbits that you’re excited to learn as you did your interviews?


[00:19:07] Adam Schaeuble: One of my buddies that I’ve interviewed for the podcast is Dov Baron. I keep on teasing him. He’s a motivational speaker, so I’m like, “Dov, I’m going to come up with these shirts that say #InDovWeTrust.”


[00:19:26] Ashley James: That’s interesting. I have a friend; his name was Dov — we pronounced it ‘Dove.’ It means bear in Yiddish. In Dov we trust — what does he specialize in?


[00:19:40] Adam Schaeuble: He specializes in helping people find their purpose. He’s a big business public speaker guru. I brought him in, and I gave him a very specific mission with his lesson. I said, “Dov, there are millions of people out there that know that they need to get healthier, and they want to get healthier, but they just don’t have that fire to get started. I need you to help them find the fire.”

He said, “I’m on it, mate.” He’s British. He always says when I try to do my impersonation, I sound Australian.


[00:20:16] Ashley James: Yeah, that was very Australian.


[00:20:20] Adam Schaeuble: [laughs] Dang it! Epic fail. So I turned him loose, and basically, he walked us through an experience of imagining that we are at our funeral. Two scenarios: everybody was there saying the things that we hope to hear about us, and then another scenario of people saying the things that we hope no one would ever say about us. He’s like, “If we have to take those two principles, that pain and pleasure principles, and use that to ignite the fire, the pleasure principle, that’s the thing that we are striving towards. That pain, that’s the thing that keeps us from quitting because we do not want people to say that about us.”

With him, he gives the example of somebody saying he was full of BS, or that he was a quitter, or that he was a sham as that pain principle as to why he has to keep impacting people. He has a goal he set out there to make a massive impact in the public speaking space, business space, and he won’t be denied because he knows on his final day, he does not want anybody to be able to say any of those negative things about him not being legitimate or being an impactful person and somebody that people can rely on to deliver great information.

He sure as hell did that.

He had me fired up. He just gets going. I’ve already had several people comment on just what a difference that made, to just think about it in those terms. He got emotional. He brought himself to tears talking about the disappointment that he would feel if somebody said all these negative things at his funeral. That is the type of emotion that we have to elicit to get our butt up off the couch and into motion, to sign up for a 6 a.m. boot camp class, or to have the willpower to avoid eating the things that we know we shouldn’t be eating. That was a super impactful one.

We had another great NLP presentation. It’s Matt Brauning. He’s got a great podcast as well. He did an exercise specific to cravings, which is another huge thing that we all deal with. He actually ran me through the NLP process with some visualization, and it’s great because it’s a video. One of the things I love to do, and you know this, is I love to make fun of myself.

I looked like a weirdo up there. My eyes were closed. I’m doing all the things they tell me to do, like visualizing pizza, sardines, and water. He had me flip-flopping the pictures and doing all these NLP stuff, and it’s just amazing. We’re getting some great response to that as well, mainly from people making fun of me from the video though.


[00:23:19] Ashley James: No, that’s great that he did some modalities work with you. Have you tested it? Since he did this, have you tried to be around pizza?


[00:23:30] Adam Schaeuble: Not yet. But just the–


[00:23:32] Ashley James: Thought of it?


[00:23:33] Adam Schaeuble: I could think about pizza, and my mouth starts to water. Now, it doesn’t. That’s possibly progress already.


[00:23:42] Ashley James: Absolutely. So you chose sardines and water as your ‘away from.’ The more repulsion you have with the item that you chose, the better. If you’re like, “I can take it or leave it,” that’s not enough repulsion. You need something that’s going to make you want to run and hang your head over a toilet. But, yes, it’s very effective. I’m glad he teaches the like to dislike for those who are like, “I’m very motivated, but I can’t let go of chocolate,” or “I can’t give up…” whatever the food it is that they can’t give up because they feel it has too strong of a hold on them.

My friend did potato chips. It was so funny that she chose food that would make her upchuck it. I think it was liver and onions. After the like to dislike, even hearing a crinkling of a bag that sounded like potato chips made her run to the waste bin.


[00:24:49] Adam Schaeuble: Oh, my gosh. It’s incredible.


[00:24:50] Ashley James: It calms down. That won’t be the reaction you have every time. It calms down, but it still becomes a complete “away from.” She was 100% addicted to potato chips — it’s been nine years, I don’t think she has been able to touch them.

My husband, the same thing. He was addicted to ice cream, and he was so repulsed by ice cream after like to dislike. He could not walk down the aisle at Albertsons where ice cream was for an entire year. That was ten years ago that he did that like to dislike, and now he can take or leave ice cream, but it doesn’t have a hold on him. That’s why it’s such a powerful tool to do these modalities work. I’m really happy that that’s part of the Million Pound Mission University for those who want to be able to have control instead of feeling the food is controlling them.


[00:25:48] Adam Schaeuble: I got to mention one more presentation. It’s rocking people’s worlds. I have my friend Sean Mulroney come in from The Obesity Revolution. If you guys have never heard Sean tell a story, this guy is in the fight for his life literally, like every day fighting with obesity. He gave a lecture on mental obesity, which is overcoming the obese mind and him being able to flip the switch — as high as almost 800 pounds, and now he’s down in 600s. He’s inspiring other people.

He’s got this little tribe of people that he works out with in St. Louis. I visited him a few months back. It’s incredible, the battle that he’s going through, but his process hat helped him flip that switch of feeling sorry for himself, feeling like the world was all against him, a lot of projection, a lot of blame to owning a situation at almost 800 pounds, taking control and ownership over his health, and taking active steps. He’s got so much going on with fluid retention and swelling. He had 100 pounds of water in one of his legs. That’s how bad his swelling is.

Just an incredible story, extremely inspirational. That’s another one that brings a lot of people to tears. Not everybody needs to lose hundreds of pounds, but we all deal with that mindset switch that needs to be flipped to reclaim control of our health. Whatever level or whatever extreme you’re at, lectures like that are going to make a big difference.


[00:27:31] Ashley James: Absolutely. I’m excited to watch that. I can’t wait to jump into the Million Pound Mission University and check that out. That is awesome. That happened to my dad. He was morbidly obese for many years. After my mom died, he just became so depressed, losing the love of his life, and then something happened. I guess we were watching a TV show about weight loss surgery, and a little light switch clicked in his mind.

He said to me, “I can just tell my brain that I’ve had the surgery. Let’s skip the surgery part, and I’m just going to tell myself that my stomach is the size of a golf ball.” He persistently did that for over a year. He chose healthy foods. I couldn’t believe it. He went from bingeing massive amounts of foods because he was trying to fill the void inside him. He would get upset at me if I served him too much food. I cooked him an egg and asparagus, and he’s like, “That’s not the size of a golf ball. Don’t you get it? My stomach is now the size of a golf ball,” and he did it. He went all the way back down to — I’ve never seen him at that healthy of a weight. I didn’t recognize him.

That was interesting to see. When the mindset does shift, that’s where everything starts because from your mindset comes to your actions, and from your actions come your results.

I know it’s just new. You launched it just over a week ago. Tell me some of the feedback that people have been giving you — that your students have been giving you so far.


[00:29:21] Adam Schaeuble: People are super excited about two main things. You go to the website, you go to the link that Ashley talked about, and you’re going to see all these cool names, these awesome topics, but the impact of the lessons, you really feel. And, Ashley, you can testify to this, I was very specific about this isn’t a broad brush session. It’s like you’re giving a TED talk. You got somebody you need to implement, or you need to impact, and you have to give implementable action steps. People are feeling like, “I can tell that you hold their feet to the fire to give actionable homework.” I’m like, “You’re a professor. You got to give some homework.” They’re really enjoying that.

Mainly, people that are jumping in are podcast listeners. Podcasts, a lot of times they’re entertaining, and we get inspired, but those that follow through that action behind the message isn’t always there, and this is just totally different. So people are enjoying that, and everybody is super psyched. We’re doing our first round-table discussion in a couple of weeks, and they’re just pumped up. People are diving into those sign-up spots to get in there, interact with some of their heroes, but also a lot of the fellow members are starting to interact, and I think that we’re going to create some nice accountability and connection there, and people are just super excited.

It’s almost like you’re doing a study group or office hour sessions. You get to talk about the lessons that you learned, and we’re going to share a lot of stories of how things are impacting us so far. That’s why I didn’t want to do one of the round-tables the first week. I want people to be able to implement a few weeks and start to feel the impact, and we’ll be able to share those stories in a couple of weeks.

[00:31:13] Ashley James: Excellent. You have helped people lose thirty-five thousand pounds — even more than that. In your town, you have helped people single-handedly. You were working with people with individual and also in groups, but you have face-to-face time with people in person have helped that people lose that much weight. So thirty-five thousand pounds, and you said it was in five years?


[00:31:44] Adam Schaeuble: Yes.


[00:31:45] Ashley James: That is incredible. Do you bring your experience and the actionable steps that you used to help those people lose weight? Do you bring that to the Million Pound Mission University as well?


[00:32:01] Adam Schaeuble: I’m dripping my content. I want the spotlight to be on you guys, but I’m also putting my stuff in there. I put in a whole lecture about how to escape the black hole of fitness doom. That was the topic that we talked about the very first time that you interviewed on your show.

I did a big lecture on that with some actionable steps. We’re going to drip a lot of that content in each month to give people new things to take actions on.

People are asking all the time, “How did you get all these people to lose all this weight? How do you help people with Million Pound Mission and all that?” One of the things that I feel works is I’ve walked that path that a lot of people are walking, whether they’re frustrated about their health and ready to make a change. I realized that they feel like they’re out of control, and they’re willing to put in work. They’re willing to put in the effort. They just don’t know which direction to walk.

I try my best to provide clarity and saying, “Here’s the path. Here’s where you’re at now. Here’s where we want to get to, and here are the action steps that we can take.” And now, the good part is, I’ve got a whole lot of energy, and hopefully you guys can feel that coming through your earbuds right now. But I’ve got a ton of energy, and I’d tell people, “Borrow my energy until you build up your momentum.”

Eventually, you’re going to have to be able to match energy with me, so that’s something to give you a goal to shoot for, but you can borrow my energy, enthusiasm, and motivation to kickstart this whole thing when you plug into things like the university here, and we get your momentum going.

Eventually, you’re matching energy with me, and then you’re just way above and beyond excited about where you’re going, and that momentum is yours. That is the gift that I want to give everybody, that feeling that you’re in control of your health and you’ve got momentum on your side. That’s why I do everything that I do, Ashley.


[00:33:58] Ashley James: I love it. Those questions that pop in and out of my head is, all those people have lost weight following you. Were they on the same diet, the same program, they’re all doing CrossFit, they’re all eating paleo, or was everyone doing their program, and you were helping them to stay focused?


[00:34:21] Adam Schaeuble: A little bit of both. With my hometown, it’s a little bit different because I own a gym and I’d be able to control their fitness environment. But with their nutrition, we develop a lot of different modalities, from vegetarian/vegan to clean eating, to strict paleo, gluten-free, keto — all that. Again, as I talked about earlier, it’s the right tool for the right job. If we need a hammer to pound a nail, I’m not going to use a screwdriver.

That’s where there’s a lot of confusion, where all these Team Keto, Team Vegan, and Team CrossFit, they battle back and forth who is the smartest and who is the best. I feel like that’s a waste of air. It doesn’t matter if that’s not the right tool for the job. With our home base, I had people come in morbidly obese, and I had people come in that were former pro athletes, and they were in the same class working out together. We just modify up or down, whether it’s a bodyweight class, a yoga class, an equipment station, kettlebell rotation type of thing, but we had modified a little bit there.

Now that we’re transitioning more to online programming and things like Million Pound Mission University and my online communities, that has been more about me almost — I try to get you to visualize. Like when you need help with your investments, you go maybe to a financial adviser, and they manage your investment portfolio.

I’m kind of a fitness portfolio manager, like a transformation strategist basically. I’m like, “What are you struggling with? Here are my tools to address that situation. Let’s hone in on the right diet program, the right fitness regimen, and let’s hold you accountable to that on March 4.” I like to operate in 28-day cycles. We take a stair step every 28 days, and we readjust as we need to, shift around the portfolio a little bit if we need to. But it’s very broad brush, and it’s more about adding in accountability, adding in community, and always just making sure that we operate from a rock-solid battle plan, and that’s how we help people reclaim control of their health.


[00:36:41] Ashley James: I like it. How do you help people to figure out what diet is best for them?


[00:36:48] Adam Schaeuble: I’ve got a little tool. I’ll send it to you. I call it the Nutrition Plan Filter, where it’s a process in the coaching, but you can use it as a standalone tool as well. But you go through a process of thinking, “What have I done in the past?” We can’t discount something that we did. Let’s say you did Weight Watchers; you lost 30 pounds, but you gained it all back. You can’t just shove that, “I gained it all back.” It may not have been the “diet” that was the issue; it may have been something else, like you’re on vacation and then never got back to it, which is not the diet’s fault.

We look at which nutritional protocols they’ve had success with. We make a note of those. Then we list all the nutritional protocols that we have interest in. Maybe you hear a lot about keto, and you want to learn more about that, so we’ll add to the list. Then we work through a process of crossing things off, starting different things, and we work our way down to where we say, “This is probably the best fit right now.” That’s what we work with, but that’s a little pressure situation.

I truly believe that we should not put pressure on ourselves like if you decide going vegan is the best nutrition plan for the next 28 days, it’s not like ‘vegan or bust’ or “If I don’t do this, then I’m a failure because I’ve tried everything else.” This is the mindset a lot of people have, and we need to extinguish that.

I tell people, “We’re going to experiment with this for 28 days. We’re going to take great notes, and we’re going to do the best that we can to execute this nutritional protocol.” At the end of the 28 days, let’s see what happens. Maybe we lose 5 pounds; maybe we gain 5 pounds; maybe nothing happens; maybe we feel great; maybe we feel terrible. But we’ll never know until we implement strategically for 28 days and then assess the results. It’s an experiment; there’s no pass/fail. Let’s see what happens. “Let’s absorb what is useful,” as Bruce Lee says, and we move forward from there. That’s the overarching approach that I take.


[00:38:54] Ashley James: I like it. During those 28 days, at the beginning you do body measurements, go on a scale, and then you don’t touch the scale for 28 days? How do you have them know it’s working?


[00:39:10] Adam Schaeuble: It depends as far as the measurement stuff. I do have a lot of people that are kind of addicted to the scales. A lot of people weigh themselves every day, and we’ll actually make adjustments to their nutrition plan every day, depending what the scale tells them, which is like, “We don’t want to do that, people.”

If I’m dealing with that sort of person, I’ll say, “Just weigh in once a week. Just weigh in on Sundays. Here’s the protocol. Let’s do our check-in. We’ll do some pictures. We’ll do some measurements. We’ll do the scale.” I like once every two weeks. So every 14 days, we do a little checkpoint, and the speech that I give people is, “Let’s say once every two weeks, I was going to have you do a push-up test to see how many push-ups you could do in a minute. Let’s see at Day 14, you do your push-up test, and you do 20 push-ups, would you change what you’re doing with your nutrition depending on how that test went?”

No. That will be ridiculous.

Then I say, “Then we’re not going to make any shifts when you step on the scale either.” We’re not going to make any dramatic, “I’m down five pounds, but I expected to be down eight pounds because my friend lost eight pounds.” We’re not going to change anything around based off of what that scale tells us either. It’s just a data point. That’s how we have to view it.

At the end of the 28 days, we might shift something, but it’s not because the scale told me something. It’s all of the data collected together as a whole. We assess how we’re feeling, how we’re sleeping, how’s our digestion, how’s our stress levels, how’s our body fat, how’s our physical performance, what’s the weight doing, what are the measurements doing, how are the pictures doing. It’s all of that stuff instead of one, single, very hard to be consistent with data point.

If we’re going to think about that clearly also, if we are retaining water, the scale is almost irrelevant. If we’re sore, if we have sodium, our hormonal cycles — that can shift that scale five, six, seven, eight pounds in a day. That’s the data point that most people are judging themselves on. That’s crazy.

I’m big on that holistic approach of, “Let’s look at all of the data, have that experimental mindset, and we’ll just take this 28-day stair steps at a time, low pressure, but being consistent with moving forward and keeping positive momentum.”


[00:41:42] Ashley James: I love it. Is this something that you’re going to teach moving forward at Million Pound Mission University? Are you going to hands-on help these students to do these, to implement this ongoing-ly?


[00:41:54] Adam Schaeuble: Yeah. It’s a continuing month-to-month program, so my goal is to keep adding new lessons, but also, like you just said, implementing my processes in there so that people are being taught how to set up these 28-day cycles. It’s like my battle pan workbook, how to use tools like the nutrition filter, and going forward, how to implement those if it makes sense.

But again, those monthly round-tables are going to be me being the ringleader of implementation and accountability. A lot of my clients, they kind of joke, and they tell me that they’re paying me to keep them out of their head. So if I hear them beating themselves up, if they’re not proud — especially me, I’m 6’3″; I’m 225 pounds. I’m not a small person, and they see me as one of those TV drill sergeant type people, where they think like, “He’s gonna yell at me. He’s gonna all be mean.” Honestly, the only time I ever really get fired up and yell at somebody” is if they’re not being proud enough of themselves.

I’ve got people that are doing tremendous, but they’re in their head, “Ugh, I’ve only lost thirty pounds, Adam, but my goal is fifty.” I’m like, “You’ve lost freaking thirty pounds. This is incredible. You have to be proud of that and not be caught in that ‘I’m not there yet’ trap that we all do.”

I’m constantly telling people to turn around, look at where you started from, measure that distance — not the distance between where you stand and where you want to be — that will keep you moving forward. We’ve talked about that before. A big part of my job description is pulling people out of their head, or maybe even retracting their head from their butt region every once in a while.

It’s what I do. It’s what I’m good at. If people want to buy into those methods and if they’re willing to take a little bit of pressure off themselves, we can get some pretty amazing results, and I feel like my catalog results in my hometown, the online clients, really speaks for itself.


[00:44:10] Ashley James: Absolutely. I like that you do this 28-day increments where you increase it. You’re speaking my language. I’ll go to the gym with the end goal in mind, but that’s three years from now. I’ll go for three days in a row and then it’s like, “Ugh, nothing is working.” I’m totally in my head.

Whereas if I went to the gym for the next 28 days, that’s the only thing I’m focusing on, and then I get to reassess and then go, “Great. Now, I’m going to add more reps and maybe another kettlebell,” or whatever but just sticking with something. It’s a long enough of a time that you start to get the habit of it and start to get momentum. But it’s short enough of a time that they don’t get lost. They don’t get bored.

I’ve done this. Like you said, one day I’m on Weight Watchers; next day I’m vegan; the next day I’m paleo. I’ve totally done that. I’ve done over thirty-five diets, and that was a few years ago. I stopped counting. But obviously since doing the podcast, I get inspired by every guest, and I would like to try their diet.

I went to become a health coach. I went to the Institue of Vinegar of Nutrition. We learned a hundred different dietary theories in 365 days, so you bet, I tried every single diet. Not for more personal experience to understand, but you get to the point where it’s a little dizzying, where we stop listening to the intuition of our body because we’re hearing all these other experts. “This person lost weight with keto.” “This person lost weight with vegan.” “This person lost weight with Atkins.”

It seems like opposing diets. One scientist says, “We should eat no meat because the meat will kill us. We’ll die.” This other scientist says, “Look at all these proof that we have to eat meat or else we’re going to die.” What are we going to do?

And so I love that you bring clarity to the situation, as I do as well love to bring clarity for people to help them own their success, get out of their head, be able to focus on food is nutrition, that it’s a form of self-love. The food is our medicine, and I like that you have this “stick with something for 28 days before you judge it.” Give it enough time to do its work, and then that reassessment once a month is great too. It helps us to stay accountable. That’s wonderful.

Adam, I would join Million Pound Mission University just for your expertise. We need to do a little bit of “Come to Ashley” talk here because this is the same as the person who beats himself up for only losing thirty pounds. You need to do a little self-checking. Your info is so awesome that all these other speakers are like icing on the cake, but I would come to your Million Pound Mission University just for you.

You help people lose thirty-five thousand pounds; that is absolutely outstanding. You know what you’re talking about, and I love that you were so heart-focused, that you are so in love with every single person that is there to help. As I said, I’m a big fan of the work you do, and I’m excited to see how many lives we can help transform through the Million Pound Mission University.

I can’t wait to have you back on the show like a year from now where we can do a recap and see how many people have had transformations because of what you’ve put together.

So listeners can go to to check out the Million Pound Mission University. Definitely enroll, jump in. Adam made it incredibly affordable, and it’s all about results-based stuff, so it’s mindset stuff. It’s emotional/mental health; definitely a lot of physical health. But you’re also going to get Adam, which I think, you are the most important resource that Million Pound Mission University offers because of your level of experience and the amount of care that you bring to every single person.

Can you tell us what you would like us to walk away today? What lesson or idea would you like all of us to leave this episode with today?

[00:49:22] Adam Schaeuble: I’ve mentioned a few times, and first, thank you so much for what you just said. That makes my day. I borrowed some of your energy to launch my podcast career, so that means a lot coming from you, my friend.

We’ve talked about implementation. You guys have heard us say something today that you would not be listening to this interview still if you didn’t have something that was getting you going. An hour in, people aren’t still tuned in. I’m not going to listen to an hour-long podcast to hear people’s voices. So if you’re still with us, something fired you up. Something has you plugged in. Hone in on that thing, and say, “In the next 24 hours, what is one simple action step that I can take to implement?”

Visualize this stack of dominoes a mile long. The first domino is the smallest one. The next one is twice the size. The next is twice that size because that’s how dominoes work. I just learned that’s the physics of it. If you push over a domino, that domino can knock over a domino twice its size. That’s how we build momentum.

What is the tiniest domino that you need to flick over to create momentum in the right direction to achieve that thing that you’ve gotten fired up about today? Within the next 24 hours, if you guys want to ramp up the personal accountability on this, most of you are on your phone listening to this right now. Set an alarm 24 hours from now on your phone — on iPhone, you can add some text in there. I want the text to say, “I am worth it.” That alarm goes off in 24 hours. I want you to do something because you are worth it.


[00:51:12] Ashley James: I love it. For Androids, we can go into the calendar and add a little appointment — “I’m worth it.” I’m going to tell everyone around me to do so. There’s this meme that keeps circulating Facebook. I laughed till I cry every time I see this meme. It’s just text. A woman is asking a salesperson, “How many loads of laundry can this dining room table hold?” The man says, “Ma’am, this is a dining room table.” She goes, “Yes, what’s the point?” It’s because many of us use our dining room table to hold things that aren’t food.

We’ve been Marie Kondo-ing our house. If you haven’t heard of Marie Kondo, go to Netflix, watch the entire season of Tidying Up. Our house is crazy right now. We’ve done 12 or 15 loads of ‘to donate’ to the thrift store. We’re rocking it.

However, the downside is I have let everything under the sun pile up on our dining room table, so we stopped eating at the table. Now, we’re eating at random places in the house, like me standing up by the sink. This has been a recent development. I’m worth it. Today, I’m going to clear up the dining room table. We’re going to get back to eating at the table again.

It’s funny. I’ve told the listeners this made a huge difference to the health of our whole family when we started eating at the dining room table — it really did — and it got disrupted. I went unconscious there, and now I get to come back. I’m going to clear up that dining room table. We’re going to stop eating standing up or by the computer. We’re going to start eating again at the dining room table.

So thank you, Adam, for helping us to choose something that we want to transform in the next 24 hours, like that little domino that is going to make a huge impact as it starts to topple over the bigger dominoes until our life is completely transformed.

Adam, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show again. Can’t wait to have you back about a year from now for you to tell us the amazing impact that the Million Pound Mission University has had in the lives of all its students. In five years, you were able to help your town lose thirty-five thousand pounds. I can’t wait now that you’ve been unleashed on the internet. You don’t have the constraints of a geographical location now. You have the entire world. So watch out, world. Here come’s Adam and the Million Pound Mission University.

Listeners, please go to and check it out, and follow Adam on Instagram. He does lots of these live — almost daily. I see you all the time with blue blocking glasses. Adam is a role model for me. He’s right in the blue-blocking glasses because he’s like, “I don’t care what I look like. My melatonin production is not getting inhibited by this being on a screen at night.” Very cool — he’s got blue-blocking shades, and he does these awesome live events on Facebook and Instagram. You can ask him all kinds of questions.

How can listeners follow you, Adam? Is it Million Pound Mission? How do they follow you on Instagram and Facebook?

[00:54:45] Adam Schaeuble: The best place, especially my live stuff, number one is Instagram @millionpoundmission. That is my jam. I’m a little bit addicted to Instagram for sure, especially from a podcasting perspective. And then Facebook, I’ve got a redirect to my Facebook group. It’s a free Facebook community, but I go live in there a lot. If you go to, that will opt you in to check out my Facebook community, and that’s where I hang out. The two places I love to be.


[00:55:20] Ashley James: Awesome. Adam, we’ll see you in the Million Pound Mission University, and we’ll see you live on Instagram. Thank you so much for coming here today. It was such a pleasure.


[00:55:29] Adam Schaeuble: Thanks, Ashley. I appreciate it so much, and again, everybody, if you have not done this yet, please go on iTunes, leave Ashley a glowing 5-star review and mention this episode, and I greatly appreciate that.


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Mandy Flanders And Ashley James

After a mold infestation, Mandy Flanders and her daughters’ health deteriorated. Diet and detox helped, but they did not eliminate the symptoms. This certified traditional naturopath turned to holistic healing and uncovered deeper roots of disease — trapped emotions. Mandy shares how acknowledging her feelings led to true healing and made her “safe in her body” again.

[00:00:03] Ashley James: I am so excited for our interview today. We have with us Mandy Flanders. She’s a holistic health coach and a certified natural health professional. She’s working towards her traditional naturopathist certification through Trinity College, and she has a wealth of information to share with us today, most importantly though her story, which is incredibly inspirational.

As you listen to Mandy’s story today, if it resonates with you in a way that makes you want to do the work that she does and help people as a holistic health coach, then I think you will love IIN, the Institute for Integrated Nutrition. That’s the online school that I went to take the year-long health coach training program designed for very busy people so that you can fit it into your schedule. It is a phenomenal course.

Every week you’re given videos that are of the caliber of TED talks. They are very interesting. In school a lot of the classes were boring, and I was afraid this would be boring. Every single week was incredible. It was riveting. If you are into health, you will absolutely love IIN’s program. They train you on how to be a successful health coach.

If you’re interested in becoming a holistic health coach, call up IIN, talk to them, ask them for more details, talk to them about their health coach training program, make sure you mention the Learn True Health podcast and Ashley James because I secured a fantastic discount for my listeners. You can also get free access to part of their training by going to Sign up to check out a module of their training so you can get a feel for it.

Enjoy today’s interview. 

[00:02:14] Ashley James: Mandy, welcome to the show.


[00:02:16] Mandy Flanders: Hi, Ashley. Thank you so much for having me.


[00:02:19] Ashley James: Absolutely. Mandy, you’ve been a listener for quite a while. You’re very active in the Learn True Health Facebook group. You and I have been friends on Facebook. I love following all your posts, by the way. They have inspired and helped me, and I know that you’re going to help a lot of our listeners here today. After listening to this interview, everyone can go to the Facebook group, and we can have an awesome discussion with Mandy about everything that we’ve learned here today.

I want to dive in and hear more about your story because you have this beautiful journey that you’ve been on towards the healer that you are now. Of course, you had to go through your own healing in order to be inspired to want to dedicate your life to helping others. Thank you for getting a bit vulnerable today and sharing what you’ve been through in your past. I know a lot of us can relate. Tell us your story.


[00:03:12] Mandy Flanders: Thank you. I started to get into holistic health after I got pregnant actually. I was very acutely aware of how everything that I was ingesting, feeling, thinking was going right to my baby.

At that time, I didn’t know what to eat, what to avoid. I was very into water sports at the time that I got pregnant which are pretty hard on pregnancy, and you’re actually not supposed to do them while you’re pregnant. I was also coming out of drug addiction. I was entering into a very new territory of just a complete metamorphosis into this new person that I didn’t know existed.

I started learning about the types of foods that pregnant women should eat. I didn’t even know how to cook at that time. I would think macaroni and cheese was cooking or a can of soup was cooking. My son is now six, and I learned a lot since that time.


[00:04:34] Ashley James: When you were pregnant, you were no longer using drugs and alcohol? Could you tell us a bit about that experience? How did you end your addiction to drugs and alcohol?


[00:04:48] Mandy Flanders: The story is interesting, I think. I got arrested for my third DUI and wound up in a jail that was like an hour away from my home. I was in my early twenties and terrified of calling my parents to let them know that I had been arrested again for drinking and driving.


[00:05:14] Ashley James: How old were you?


[00:05:15] Mandy Flanders: I was, I think, twenty-one, so it was about ten or eleven years ago. It took me a few days of being in jail to finally decide to call and let anyone know that I was in there, but I knew at that time that something had to change. I didn’t know how it was going to change, and I didn’t know what it would look like, but I knew that I could not go on that way. I knew I was looking around the jail cell at all of these other women that were in there with me, and I just knew that I did not belong there. It was not a path that I saw myself on for the next ten, twenty, thirty years.

So I detoxed in jail. I remembered feeling extremely sick, shaking, sweating and nauseous. Of course, the food that they give you in jail is not nourishing at all. I finally called my family, and I remember my mom answering the phone — it was a collect call — and I just started crying. I was like, “I don’t know why I keep doing this.” She didn’t know what to say either.

So they finally came and bailed me out, and I went back to my apartment. I lost my license because it was my third DUI. I started going to AA about a month later. It took me a while to decide what I was going to do and how I would do it, and I had an anklet on at that time to detect alcohol in my sweat levels.


[00:07:03] Ashley James: They should have that same kind of anklet for donuts. “We’ve detected your blood sugar has raised.” It’s like, “Zap! No more Krispy Kreme for you.”


[00:07:15] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, that’s hilarious. Why don’t they do that? “Your sugar content is way too high.”


[00:07:23] Ashley James: “Go hit some kale.”


[00:07:28] Mandy Flanders: That’s funny. So yeah, I started going to AA and was surrounded by a lot of people my age who were going through similar things. It was from there that I was able to find a steady footing to figure out how to get sober. I ended up linking up with an old friend of mine who I used to party with, who found herself in AA. It was ironic that we were both there together. It was good to have a community of people around me who were trying to figure out how to do this, too.

I just had a lot of good support. It was a good foundation for me. I’m not currently in AA. Not long after that, I met my husband who was a huge catalyst for healing and growth for me as well. The relationship that we have together has been super profound for my healing.

After AA, I started yoga teacher training. This is not the path that I would recommend for everybody, but for me, yoga teacher training gave me a new set of tools to be able to manage the emotions and the stresses that I was trying to numb out with alcohol and drugs.


[00:09:00] Ashley James: Did you figure out what led you to use drugs and alcohol in your life? Did you find that after you stopped using drugs and alcohol, that you started using other things to cope? A lot of people will go to sugar to stimulate the serotonin and get an escape. There’s sex addiction. There’s addiction to watching TV. There’s exercise addiction. There are ways that we can legally escape. Did you find that you were craving different habits that were unhealthy, or did you get to the root cause?


[00:09:45] Mandy Flanders: I did not get to the root cause initially. I did a lot of counseling and a lot of deep inner work, and it wasn’t until we were exposed to toxic mold three years ago that I realized that there was a deeper root. It’s interesting because these stories are from two different times in my life, but they overlapped so much.

The toxic mold helped me to realize that I did not get to the root of the issues at all. I didn’t realize it, of course, at that time, and I was medicating with chocolate. I was medicating with research. I was medicating with certifications, schooling, and education. And so a lot of people would consider those healthy, but I was still stuck in this disease of avoidance with not the best coping mechanisms, and so I would feel stressed, and then I would start researching, “Oh, me and my son have a runny nose.” I’m going to start researching all the causes that could contribute to a runny nose, so that wasn’t helpful either.

So then we were exposed to toxic mold. We had lived in this house for three or four years, and we had some intense family stuff going on. My younger sister had just been diagnosed with brain cancer and some other things we’re going on. My body was just under an extreme amount of stress. I was not sleeping well. My food choices were not the best, and I could tell my heart rate was high all the time. I was not managing my stress very well.

So then I fell sick from the toxic mold, and the kids too when they were were getting sick with colds and congestion like every other week. I was having these crazy symptoms of headaches and severe brain fog, nausea, digestive issues, heart palpitations, joint pain, muscle pain — just so many symptoms that a person should not have to be subjected to.

I went on a hunt. I didn’t even know that we were being exposed to toxic mold, but I just went to on a hunch. Something told me to get the house tested. We did and found very high levels of a lot of different types of molds, and there are five toxic black molds, and we had four of them in our home.

[00:12:25] Ashley James: How long has that been going on? What is it chronic? Did all that mold suddenly happen? Did you realize you’ve been exposed to it for a long time?


[00:12:34] Mandy Flanders: I think we had been exposed to it for a long time, and with this extreme stress that we were under, it triggered. It’s an opportunistic pathogen, so it was like, “Hey, you’re weak right now. We’re gonna attack you.” That’s what happened.


[00:12:54] Ashley James: The rain barrel effect keeps coming up. Oh, my gosh — that must have been crazy. Tell me a bit about the intuition. Was it a little voice? Can you remember back to that moment that you thought, “This could be mold”? What notified you that it could be black mold?


[00:13:17] Mandy Flanders: It was just a very strong gut feeling.


[00:13:23] Ashley James: So you listened to the gut.


[00:13:26] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, and it was challenging because I didn’t realize what a huge undertaking mold was going to be for my family, for our health, and for our bank account.


[00:13:37] Ashley James: How did you get rid of it?


[00:13:39] Mandy Flanders: Oh, man, that’s a whole other story. I didn’t know much about mold at that time, so we hired a remediation company after we had it tested, and they found high levels of the Stachybotrys, Aspergillus, Penicillium, Cladosporium, Chaetomium.

This remediation company came in, and they taped up the door and did a zipper, and they were tracking the materials in and out through the house still. And then they were removing the walls; they removed the bathtub, the sinks, part of the ceiling; they just kept removing until they didn’t see any more mold. They were spraying what they said were natural mold killers, but I could smell it through the whole air duct system. We’re sitting on the couch, the kids and I, and I could smell this chemical coming through the air events. I was like, “That’s interesting because they supposedly taped over the air vent in the bathroom, so I wonder how I’m smelling it over here coming through the air vent.”

They left and pretty much immediately our health got even worse. I called the insurance company and was trying to talk to them about the claim and what was going on with our health and how we were not doing very well, and I felt like we’re getting worse after the remediation, and she was like, “I can’t believe you’re still in the house.” I said, “What do you mean?” She was like, “I can’t believe nobody has told you to get out of that house. You should not be in the house while they’re remediating, especially not with children.”

And so I looked at my husband after he got home, and I was like, “We have to get out of this house. We can’t stay here.” We went to stay with my parents. It ended up being seven or eight months while they remediated. I fired that company. I came in one time while they were gone and went into the bathroom where the wall was when the air kicked on. I realized that where the wall was removed, there was air moving through that space. I had someone, a contractor, come in to look at it with me because I was like, “I don’t understand this. There is air moving through the space. What is this?” He said, “That’s an air return, and it goes into the whole air duct system.” I was like, “Are you serious?”


[00:16:13] Ashley James: From the moldy bathroom.


[00:16:14] Mandy Flanders: Yes.


[00:16:15] Ashley James: Oh, my gosh. Who designed this?


[00:16:18] Mandy Flanders: I know. I fired that company. I called them, and it was like, “This is insulation. There is mold all over, and this is an air return. Everything that you were doing was getting sucked into our entire air duct system.” They denied it. They were like, “That’s not mold.” I had a company come in and test it, and sure enough, it tested positive for very high counts of all the black molds.

I fired them, hired another company to come in, and they did it right. They taped up everything. They sealed everything. They had negative airflow going out of the house so that the mold would be tracked outside the house. They were wearing hazmat suits. Everything was done properly the second time around.


[00:17:07] Ashley James: Can you share the name of that company? Is it a national company or just local?


[00:17:12] Mandy Flanders: I think it’s just local. They’re called Dry Rescue Services.


[00:17:17] Ashley James: Local to what area?


[00:17:20] Mandy Flanders: Orlando, Florida.


[00:17:22] Ashley James: We want to give good attention to good companies.


[00:17:27] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, so they did a good job. We ended up having to replace the entire air duct system, the bathroom, the laundry room, and the kitchen.


[00:17:39] Ashley James: Amazing. Seven months out of your home.


[00:17:43] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, with two little kids.


[00:17:47] Ashley James: What did you do to recover the health of your family after you realize that everyone had been exposed to four toxic black molds?


[00:17:55] Mandy Flanders: Initially, I focused on the diet. I cut out all high-histamine foods. We didn’t do anything fermented. I cut out grains. For me, I cut out all animal products. We were eating fruits and veggies. I didn’t feel it impacted me that much, which I was surprised by. I was like, “Maybe I’m just detoxing.”

So then I started doing homeopathic detox by the Energetix brand. That seemed to help a little bit. I noticed more drainage and things like that. I was doing saunas regularly, too. I couldn’t work out at all in that time because every time I started to work out, within five to ten minutes, I would have to go and take a two- or three-hour nap after working out because my adrenals were just so shot.


[00:19:03] Ashley James: Do you think that was an accumulation over the alcohol and your life before the mold? Do you think that your adrenals were fine until the mold?


[00:19:16] Mandy Flanders: They probably had some accumulation from my life before the mold, but there was so much time in between that I feel like it was mostly stress-related and then compounded by the mold.

There was just so much stress happening at that time. It’s hard to paint the picture of how taxing this was emotionally on us. It strained my marriage. My kids were extremely stressed out. My daughter was one and a half at that time, and my son was three. It was a rough time, and I didn’t know anything about remediation. I didn’t know anything about mold at that time, so I kept making these decisions that I thought were the right decisions, like hiring that remediation company that was referred to us, and then it would blow up in my face. I’m like, “Why is this happening?”


[00:20:14] Ashley James: What are the symptoms? Were you the only one experiencing symptoms, or did your children and husband also have health issues because of this?


[00:20:28] Mandy Flanders: My kids did, too. They were getting sick every other week, just like I was. Before I figured it out it was the mold, we thought maybe our immune systems are weak because it was in November that we all started to feel sick. I was like, “Maybe our immune systems are just weak. It’s that time of the year.”

But then it was every other week we were getting sick with a new cold or cough. Our diets were really clean at that time. We were eating animal products, but everything that we were eating was grass-fed, pasture-raised, organic. We didn’t do much processed foods, so I felt we should not have been getting sick that much.

And so we were talking to friends and family, and they would be like, “Maybe you’re doing too much,” or, “Maybe your immune systems are not as strong as you thought they were.” I felt like I was going crazy. I’m like, “Am I okay?” My husband didn’t have that many symptoms at that time that he noticed. The kids and I were the canaries. I felt a little like I was going crazy.


[00:21:40] Ashley James: So you’re doing the homeopathic remedies which a little bit have helped, then what? Did you ever get to a point where you found something that helped, or was it an accumulation over time of many things that helped you to recover from the mold damage?


[00:22:01] Mandy Flanders: I finally had a friend who was healing from Lyme disease and breast implant illness, and she had suggested doing coffee enemas. I knew that the liver would be really important because if it gets congested, then nothing else can work. Digestion shuts down, and your brain doesn’t think as clearly, and you can have pains, rashes, and things like that, which I was having. It took me months to finally consider doing the coffee enema.

After I felt like I had tried everything, I decided to try doing a coffee enema. After the first one, I had so much more energy. My pain was reduced pretty dramatically, and I felt a lot better. I felt clear-headed. I didn’t feel anxious, and so I continued to do them, and I did them every day for about a month, and I felt really good. I was able to go back to yoga. I was doing yoga once a week, but I had to stop all of it because I couldn’t exert my body.

I started to feel really good, and then one day, I started to feel symptomatic again after doing the coffee enemas. It was like these waves of anxiety and fear, followed by heart racing and sweating. And so I thought maybe it was Herx reaction, maybe I was doing too much, I was detoxing, I was demineralizing myself. For a couple of months, I took a break from the coffee enemas, and I started to focus a lot on rebuilding.

I started to feel better, and then I met with a friend of mine. She’s a therapist, and she works with kids. I asked her if she would be willing to work with me, which you’re not supposed to do, so I’m not going to say her name. She agreed, so I started working with her. We wanted to maintain our friendship; that was the most important thing. If things got to a place where I needed to go work with a different therapist, we agreed that we would do that, and there would not be any issues.

We started working together. In one of our sessions, I had the same physical sensations associated with childhood stuff come up. It was the same as after the coffee enemas, and I realize at that moment that what my body was trying to do then from the coffee enemas was detox the emotions that were trapped in my body.


[00:24:55] Ashley James: Wow.


[00:24:58] Mandy Flanders: I had to learn how to feel comfortable with sensation, and I wasn’t. I didn’t realize that until I started doing the coffee enemas because any time I would feel any twinge or anything, I would immediately think that something is wrong with me.


[00:25:18] Ashley James: What do you mean by being comfortable with sensation? Do you mean being comfortable with your heart racing or symptoms the body is demonstrating, or do you mean emotions?


[00:25:30] Mandy Flanders: Emotions. For me, sometimes they manifest as heart racing. I’ll get a wave of anxiety out of nowhere, and my heart rate will elevate, or I’ll feel nervous for some reason out of nowhere and start having sweaty armpits or something. I’m like, “That’s interesting. I don’t know what that is.” But now, I have come to understand that when those things happen, it’s energy. Our body is moving these old stagnant emotions that got stuck out in the body.


[00:26:02] Ashley James: For you to process.


[00:26:03] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, and it doesn’t have to happen consciously. A lot of times we think that we have to be conscious and aware of these energies moving out of the body, but we don’t have to be necessarily. Sometimes that helps like if you’re working through something, it helps to be conscious. But if you’re just sitting and watching TV or reading a book and all of a sudden, you’re super calm, and then out of nowhere, you have this sensation of anxiety, or fear, or dread. Those are the sensations that to me indicates, “Okay, there is a trapped emotion, trapped energy, or trapped energy in emotion, which is e-motion, that’s trying to move out of my body.”


[00:26:43] Ashley James: I find that some people like to self-medicate to avoid those feelings that they haven’t been able to process. I have caught myself in the past wanting to gain pleasure from food, especially in the evenings. In the evenings, the kids have gone to bed, the house is quiet, and your mind goes, “Oh, good, you’ve got some spare time. Let me bring up a memory when you’re five years old.” Here you are doing something while you process this stuff that you haven’t been dealing with.

Our unconscious mind likes to bring it up to the surface for us to resolve because holding on to the stuff is not healthy, and we hold on to it because we weren’t able to process it in our past, or we didn’t have the resources to, but we do now. I would find myself moving towards the fridge, even though I’m not hungry because I wanted pleasure and distraction from what my mind was presenting.

I was unconscious of it for a long time until I started to pause and had to get really conscious about it. Am I really hungry? No. Why am I having this very intense desire to get a snack? I don’t need one. It’s not physically needed for the body to consume calories at 7 p.m., 9 p.m., or 11 p.m. My body can totally live off of what I ate for dinner. I have enough energy from that food, and it’s going to sustain me until the morning. So what’s up?

If we look at grocery stores and aisle after aisle of snack food, I’m not alone. Many of us are suppressing our emotions through snacking, pushing them back down. We grew up in an era where we’re not given the resources to acknowledge that emotions are important to work through, and we’re not celebrated for taking the time to do that. We’re celebrated for the exact opposite — don’t cry, push them down, push through.


[00:29:00] Mandy Flanders: Don’t be a baby.


[00:29:01] Ashley James: Get stuff done. Get it done. Get up, wipe it off. And so taking the time for self-love and self-care is seen as weakness, and we’re staying late at work, working on the weekends, pushing through, pulling all-nighters — that is respected. Beating up your body and harming yourself further is rewarded.

We have this paradox, maybe we came from a family that didn’t have any resources to pass on to us about processing our emotions, and so a lot of us don’t believe that emotions are that important when it comes to healing physically. But how important was it for you? You discovered that some of your physical symptoms were directly related to your unprocessed emotions.


[00:29:57] Mandy Flanders: I would say it was essential to my healing. It wasn’t until I started to address that and to learn how to feel safe in my body again, because that’s ultimately what it is, is that we don’t feel safe to process those emotions. When I learned how to do that and how to sit in discomfort, I ultimately remembered that I am safe, and that I am okay, and that feeling is not a bad thing.

In our society, we’re taught everywhere that feeling is not good. If you feel something, you need to get on an antidepressant; you need an anti-anxiety. If you feel something, you need an epidural, if you’re having a baby. In all areas of our lives, especially women, we’re told that it’s not okay to feel.


[00:30:50] Ashley James: And in business, too.


[00:30:52] Mandy Flanders: Oh, yeah.


[00:30:53] Ashley James: We have been de-feminized. I’m not going to bash men; that’s not the point. The point is that women feel pressure to be the stereotypical man. The stereotype of man doesn’t feel, which is just as damaging to men because men have emotions like women. We are pressured to suppress and to not come from emotion.


[00:31:14] Mandy Flanders: I feel like we’re doing the men in our society a huge disservice by perpetuating that line of thinking.


[00:31:23] Ashley James: Exactly. What’s on the edge of everyone’s mind is how — How do I? How did you? How do we process emotions? What are some healthy practices that can begin to help us to allow to the surface things that have been creating ill health inside of us?


[00:31:47] Mandy Flanders: The first step is having the awareness because if we don’t know that we have something under the surface, then we can’t do anything about it. A lot of people don’t even want to recognize that something is lurking under the surface because we think it’s a lot worse than what it really is.

I’ve told my clients before, it’s not as bad as you think it is, and I tell them this mental image. Imagine you’re sitting on the couch, and you’re looking for the remote. You go under the couch, you’re reaching, and you feel something cold and squishy. You get a flashlight, you’re like, “What is that? I can’t look. I don’t know what that is.”

So you get your flashlight, and you look under the couch, and you realized it’s just an old banana. It’s not this big, ugly, horrible snake or whatever you imagine that it was. It’s just this tiny morsel of something that can help you get to the next level of your awareness and of your healing.


[00:32:47] Ashley James: I remember the first time I went in for hypnotherapy, I was terrified. I was in my early twenties, and I was afraid that something dark would become uncovered, that there was something dark inside me. I was afraid to meet my unconscious mind.

It was interesting walking in, observing this fear that I was having. If I were coming from my reactions, I would have run away. But I became the observer, I’m like, “That’s interesting that there is this part of me that is genuinely afraid of hypnotherapy because I’m afraid of myself. I’m afraid of what’s underneath the surface.”

That also gave me enough curiosity to want to move forward, and then, of course, I discovered that there isn’t this dark, evil Ashley hiding inside me or some suppressed memories. But it was a lot of stuff that my unconscious mind wanted to resolve in a way in which I can handle it slowly, layer after layer. Every time I did, I felt lighter and freer, and toxic stress would go down further and further.

So yeah, it is a process. But that willingness to listen absolutely, and to know that it isn’t that big, giant, scary thing that we think is hiding in our unconscious, but it’s just a wounded child that wants to be heard.


[00:34:21] Mandy Flanders: Our subconscious mind has this amazing mechanism. We’re geared and designed to survive. Our subconscious is not going to show us something that we’re not prepared to handle. We’ll never be shown something that we cannot handle.


[00:34:39] Ashley James: Exactly. There is that safety mechanism there, and that’s why some people suppress things or push things down until they’re ready to process them.


[00:34:49] Mandy Flanders: If something is coming up, it means that you’re ready. A lot of people don’t want to admit that because they’re like, “But I don’t know if I am.” I’m like, “But you are because it’s starting to come up.” So let’s explore it and let’s see what is really under there.

A lot of times, I find that it’s never actually the thing that we think it is. We find that, as you said, it’s just a little wounded part of us that’s like, “Hey, you haven’t paid any attention to me, and I haven’t felt heard in 30 years. Can we do that now?”


[00:35:23] Ashley James: That’s awesome. So in the last six years — your son is six. So it’s more like seven years because it was when you were pregnant that you started on your health journey. How long have you been sober?


[00:35:37] Mandy Flanders: That’s a good question. I think about nine or ten years.


[00:35:46] Ashley James: Awesome. Congratulations. That’s really cool.


[00:35:48] Mandy Flanders: Thank you.


[00:35:49] Ashley James: Absolutely. It’s great that you acknowledged that we could use other things to avoid. I think all of us do it. All of us to a certain extent will use TV or things that are illegal just to avoid. It’s fine — sometimes we just need an evening to go out to the movies. Let’s forget about the laundry piling up or the emotional laundry piling up. It’s okay, no judgment here. This is no judgment zone. But is it serving you? We just have to look at that. Is this behavior serving you in the long run, and of course it’s not.

But the good thing that came out of your journey, and some of your avoidance behaviors, you collected a lot of certifications and a lot of wonderful knowledge that has helped you and is helping your clients. Walk us through all the certifications that you have achieved in the last nine to ten years.


[00:36:58] Mandy Flanders: I went to an esthetician’s school before I did my yoga teacher training. I’m not currently licensed anymore, but that was a pivotal step in my holistic health because a lot of the teachers there were energy healers, as well as holistic estheticians.

I started to dive into different energy healing modalities, and then from there went into yoga teacher training, and then the certified natural health professional. I do my own — I can’t call it hypnotherapy — but kind of guided questions and imagery to help people see their inner child that wants to be healed.


[00:37:53] Ashley James: Awesome.


[00:37:54] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, and I do holistic health coaching. A lot of times too, I find with my clients, when they want to address the emotional and mental stuff, I love being able to meet them where they’re at with the physical stuff. I found that sometimes you can’t even access the emotional stuff until your body feels strong enough to be able to handle those things that are coming up. It’s important to bring the body up to baseline, nourishing the physical body, and then you can access the deeper things.


[00:38:23] Ashley James: Yes, absolutely. That’s the exact same thing I found with my clients. I even tell them right off the bat. Some clients, after our initial talk, I get a feel whether they’re ready to deal with the emotional stuff and then do the physical health stuff, or whether they need to clean up the diet first and have a few months of feeling good in their own body, and then the emotions are going to come to the surface, and I let them know.

It’s so funny because it’s very rare that people are ready to deal with their diet, exercise, lifestyle, stress relief, all the physical things, and deal with the emotions at the same time. It’s usually one or the other, but the first one prepares them for the second one. It’s so true. It’s funny that you see that as well.


[00:39:15] Mandy Flanders: Oh, yeah. You have to bring that body up to a healthy place of being able to handle that stuff because they won’t access it otherwise. I’ve had clients that are like, “Oh, yeah.”

One client came to me once because she wanted to lose weight. We talked about diet and the emotions that go around eating and things like that because you have to address that piece too, and I did not hear from her again after our first appointment. I was like, “Okay, I respect your process.”

I don’t let my clients get away with very much either, which I think for some people can be triggering. If they want to heal, I want to know how committed they are to the process. One of the first questions I asked somebody before we work together is, “How dedicated to this process are you? How much do you want to heal?” Depending on their answer, we’ll determine if we’re a good fit or not, because I can help somebody only as much as they want to be helped, and you know that.


[00:40:24] Ashley James: Yes, we’re not doing the work for them. But you know what I love? Health coaching is so much more hands-on. Of course, I believe that you should have a team of professionals. I have a naturopath, but my naturopath doesn’t come home with me. I only see her once every three months.

Whereas a health coach, you’re talking to weekly, or even touching base with daily depending on your needs and their service. But some of my clients, I’ve said, “We’re texting each other at every meal,” or, “You just check in and send a picture of your meal. Tell me how you’re feeling.” There’s a daily check-in.

Even though I’m not physically going home with them, the clients are doing all the work. We’re way more hand-holding than you’ll ever get from a doctor. It’s a different relationship. A health coach almost goes home with you, but you still have to do the work. I guess with AA it’s similar, but just knowing that there’s someone you can reach out to allows us to stay present to our goals.


[00:41:37] Mandy Flanders: Exactly. It’s funny as you’re talking about this, I forgot about one of the certifications. I’m also a certified doula and lactation counselor, and health coaching is very similar to doula work because you’re guiding somebody into this birthing process of shedding layers of who they were and to become who they’re meant to be. Even if it’s just with food, and I shouldn’t say “just with food” because that’s a lot of times a huge mental hurdle for a lot of people to overcome because there are so many layers around it.


[00:42:15] Ashley James: It just keeps going on and on.


[00:42:17] Mandy Flanders: I know. I actually had a call with one of my mentors today, and she goes, “Mandy, this process doesn’t ever end. You know that, right?” I was like, “I know.” Sometimes it’s really exciting, and other times it’s really discouraging.


[00:42:34] Ashley James: It’s so beautiful when you get that big picture of life. The teacher is always a student. You want a teacher who’s always a student because you want someone who’s always learning, and you want a coach who has a coach. You want a therapist who has a therapist. We want to make sure that we’re not stagnant.

You have a special training around cancer as well — your yoga training for those who are going through cancer.


[00:43:04] Mandy Flanders: Yes. I teach yoga. I’m certified in yoga for cancer, and I teach yoga in the Cancer Center here locally.


[00:43:13] Ashley James: What’s the difference between non-cancer yoga and cancer yoga?


[00:43:18] Mandy Flanders: There is actually a big difference because you have to account for the surgeries that people have had and the treatments that they might be undergoing and the emotions. Cancer is such a deep manifestation that a lot of people who have been diagnosed with cancer, especially if they’re going a more conventional route as far as treatment, have some very deeply rooted patterns emotionally. Sometimes they could go to a normal yoga class, but a lot of times, depending on where they’re at in their treatment, a yoga for cancer class is going to be a lot more gentle and a lot more all levels.


[00:44:04] Ashley James: Interesting. When I went to massage therapy college — this was in the late ‘90s — the concern was not to stimulate lymph flow that much for cancer patients because we didn’t want to help any of the cancer metastasize, which was just crazy because the second they get off the table and start walking, they’re flooding their lymphs. What is massage going to do? I’m just curious if yoga for cancer patients is different in that you’re not stimulating lymph flow, or is it the same?


[00:44:42] Mandy Flanders: No, you’re definitely stimulating lymph flow. Yoga, in itself, is like a lymphatic massage, and I sometimes do lymphatic massage with my cancer patients too if they’ve had like breast surgeries, or some of them have lymphedema in their legs and hands. We’ll do lymphatic massage around those areas to get the lymph moving out.


[00:44:49] Ashley James: It’s so silly sometimes the myths that survive in the health space.


[00:45:11] Mandy Flanders: I know.


[00:45:12] Ashley James: Tell me about testimonials. Tell me about some stories of success of people working with you, especially people with cancer. Do you have any stories you can share?


[00:45:22] Mandy Flanders: I have a client who came into my class two weeks ago, and she comes to my yoga for cancer class. She had a lumpectomy on her breast. This was a couple of years ago.

She came into my class two weeks ago, and she looked like she was about to cry. She looked surprised, scared, worried, and I was like, “Hey, what’s going on?” She was like, “I think I have to get an MRI.” I was like, “Really, why? What happened?” She was like, “I’m having a lot of pain in my breast.” And I said, “You are?” She said, “Yeah.” I said, “Okay, which one? Is it the same one that you had the lumpectomy, the cancer in?” And she said, “No, it’s the other one this time.” I said, “That’s interesting. Let’s take some deep breaths and let’s talk about it.”

I started asking her, “What have you been doing? What have you been up to the last couple of weeks since we last saw each other?” She was like, “I just got back from visiting my mom.” I said, “How did that go?” She’s like, “It went good, but I realize we’re not as close as I thought we were.” I was like, “Tell me a little bit more about that.” This woman is in her ‘60s. She was like, “Things that I realize from my childhood that weren’t what I remember, and I wasn’t very close with my dad because I felt like my relationship with my mom impacted that.”

So I asked her which side again was the pain, and she said it was on her right side. The right side is associated with masculine, so dominant male people in our lives. It also has to do with our ability to give. The cancer that she had was on her left side, so that has to do with dominant females and our ability to receive.

I asked her a little bit more about her relationship with her dad, and she told me. So I intuitively felt strongly that this pain that she was having had to do with her lack of relationship with her father and guilt that she was feeling because she wasn’t giving him the love that she felt like she should have been giving him.

I had her lie down on her yoga mat and asked her to take some deep breaths and to slowly breathe in and out. I just coached her through a series of questions to help her imagine her dad and her mom, and we went through this little re-parenting ritual where she re-parented her young self with her dad present in her mind.

After we go through this whole course of questions and imagery, I asked her to take a deep breath and let it go and for her to open her eyes. She sat up and looked at me wide-eyed and was like, “That was incredible,” and I said, “Good. How does your breast pain feel now?” She was like, “It’s gone. I can’t find it at all.” I said, “Awesome. Good work. You did that.” She’s like, “Thank you so much.” I was like, “I didn’t do anything. You did the work, and you were ready for it.”

Our bodies talk to us. We feel sensations and pains and things like that. It’s not happening for no reason. Our bodies are always communicating with us. It’s our bodies job to manage what’s happening in our environment, so it’s constantly managing emotions, food, and things that we’re witnessing, seeing, and hearing. So when we feel something, a lot of times we think that our bodies are attacking us or turning on us, and that’s just not true. It’s our bodies way of communicating with us.

One of my mentors says that the body is the subconscious. We have emotions that get stored in the muscles and tissues and they get released, and it can manifest as pain, digestive issues, anxiety, sweating, or whatever. When we’re able to sit quietly and focus in on what we’re feeling instead of getting tied away with an imaginary story that we have about what we’re feeling, then we can hone in on what it is and allow that energy to move through us and eventually beyond us.

Energy doesn’t stop. It always continues. It has to go somewhere, so energy can be released from the body in the form of sweating, crying, vomiting, bowel movements, fevers, things like that. If we’re able to quiet our mind and not get stuck in a negative feedback loop or story that we have about what we’re feeling, then it can move out of us.


[00:50:22] Ashley James: That is so beautifully said. You reminded me of a client I worked with back in 2005. This was one of my first clients using this technique. My dad was briefly dating this woman, and she was taking pain meds every day. My mom had recently passed away at that time of liver cancer, so my dad was worried that this woman was going to give herself liver cancer taking pain meds every day. And so he said, “Can you work with her?” She was totally willing to work with me. I’m like, “Great.”

So we sat down, and she was a long-distance runner, and she was taking this pain medicine. I asked her, “How long have you been taking them?” She goes, “I think about four or five years.” I’m just asking all kinds of questions, getting deeper and deeper, and the doctors think that it’s because she’s in her fifties and she’s been a long distance runner her whole life. So of course, you’ve worn your body out, and you have pain because you’re fifty.


[00:51:25] Mandy Flanders: I know. I love those excuses that we give ourselves not to face our stuff.


[00:51:31] Ashley James: Right? So having had a background on massage, I said, “Do you mind if I touch your back?” I also worked as a physical therapist assistant. Massage in Canada is a little bit different; I had worked in oncology, palliative care, rehabilitation centers, and hospitals, and so it was more a medical focus than like a spa focus that most people think massage is for.

She lifted the back of her shirt, and I put my hands on her quadratus lumborum, which are the square-shaped muscles on the lower back right above the pelvis. I asked her which side; she said the right. The side that was painful was cold, like no circulation — ice cold and hard as a rock. The whole muscle is holding on.

The other muscle was palpable, soft, had some good tone, and it wasn’t having any problems. It’s something that I believe Bruce Lipton has talked about, and also in the book Healing Back Pain by Sarno; this idea that when we push down and ignore these emotions — exactly what you’re talking about — the unconscious mind will manifest them physically in the form of symptoms that we start to listen. For me, it was the heart palpitations. My body was going, “Hey, we’re going in the wrong direction here.” For you, you had other symptoms. For her, it manifested as back pain. For your yoga client, it was manifesting as breast pain.

And so we sat her down, and we did our breakthrough session together, where I started asking her question after question. I eventually uncovered that she had been on these pain meds for twenty years. She had blocked in her mind that she was on these meds. In the beginning, she really thought she had been on them for four or five years. But as we went deeper and deeper, she’s like, “Oh, my god. It had been twenty years.”

And so it took us a few hours of digging, but what I uncovered was a story of when she chose to have an abortion. She already had two sons. She was having an affair with a man who was married. She wasn’t married, but he was, and he was a politician. She was worried he would ruin his political career. She’s a Canadian, so some Canadian politician in Vancouver. His career would have been ruined should it have come out that she was pregnant with his child, and she was a Roman Catholic. Absolutely, this could not happen.

She was telling me the story that as the nurse tried to give her pain meds for the abortion, she said, “No, I have to pay for this in pain.” I nearly fell off my chair. This had been like twenty years ago that she had done this. And I said, “Do you know what you just said?” She said, “What?” I said, “You told yourself you had to pay for the guilt of this abortion,” that she still felt guilty about — “You had to pay for it in pain.” She goes, “No, what I meant was in the moment, I had to feel the pain of the abortion. That would have to be my penance.” I’m like, “You are still feeling it right now.”

Throughout the time, I would ask her, “On a scale of 1 to 10, where is your pain?” When she would feel guilty during talking with me, her pain would be 10 out of 10. I asked her not to be on pain meds and if she could handle it — I’m not a doctor, I can’t tell people not to take medication, but I advised her that if she felt in the moment she could, we could help to get to the root. So that’s it, we figured it out — the guilt was the root moment. And so we resolved guilt, and her pain went to a zero.

At the end of the session, I said, “Stand up, let me feel your back.” Both sides were warm, and there is heat, and it was palpable. I was blown away. I had learned these things in theory, but to see it work, this is how the body works. Exactly, what you’re talking about and what you do with your clients, this is how our brain works. Our brain, our heart, our mind, and our body are interconnected and a lot of physical symptoms, the root will be emotional.


[00:56:09] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, most of it is, I find. When we have things like autoimmune diseases and cancers, that’s our body trying to manage our life experiences. Many times, we don’t know what to do with these emotions. We don’t realize that we’re carrying stuff from our early childhood because we think, “I was just a kid,” or we don’t even remember a lot of it because we’ve stuffed it down somewhere. And so we don’t realize that there’s even anything there that needs to be managed.

And then what can happen is, in our lives, we have these situations because we tend to continue to attract or recreate the situations that happened to us as kids, and so it will just continue to reopen that wound. If we even have an abandonment wound as a kid, you’ll continue to recreate this abandonment wounds, either with your boss or with your spouse or significant other or friends. It will just keep reopening that same wound and make it deeper, and deeper, and deeper, until you pay attention to it and address it.


[00:57:20] Ashley James: You also do trauma coaching. Is that something you were certified in, or do you do it based on your own experiences? How do you do trauma coaching?


[00:57:32] Mandy Flanders: Based on my own experiences. I don’t even know if that’s a legal thing.


[00:57:39] Ashley James: It’s okay. There’s no licensing body that’s going to come after you for calling yourself a trauma coach, but you coach people through healing through trauma.


[00:57:51] Mandy Flanders: Yeah, and I find in the work that I’ve done pretty much anyone who’s diagnosed with an autoimmune disease or cancer, and I’m sure there are exceptions, but the people that I have worked with all have some underlying trauma or traumatic experience or several traumatic experiences that contribute to their physical disease.


[00:58:15] Ashley James: Can you walk us through some steps, or can you elaborate on how we can heal trauma or how you help people heal trauma?


[00:58:29] Mandy Flanders: I find initially especially it’s very important to do it with someone else. Healing should have a witness. It’s very difficult to heal in isolation, and in fact, I don’t know of anybody who can heal in isolation because we’re very social creatures. We need that human connection to be able to heal and to be validated too. We need to have somebody who can validate that what we’re feeling is real and that what we’re feeling is impacting us.

The details of the story don’t actually matter, even though our brains love to think that the details do matter, but the details don’t. It’s more about what we feel about the story. You can have a story of getting yelled at by a parent. Whatever happened, the details are fuzzier, hazy, and those don’t matter anyway. It’s more about what you felt as a result of being yelled at.


[00:59:30] Ashley James: And that emotion, that’s in the present right now.


[00:59:33] Mandy Flanders: Yes, because that emotion we carry it. If it’s unresolved, then you continue to carry that. If somebody gets mad at you or yells at you or whatever, that reopens it, and it triggers you more so than it would if you didn’t have that wound. If we humans had no wounds at all, we wouldn’t have any triggers. There would be nothing to trigger us because we would be like god or angels. We wouldn’t have any of those triggers.

[01:00:01] Ashley James: I love that you pointed that out. This kind of healing should be done with someone else. It’s when we are in our head that we can go into a very dark place or spiral. It’s like we’re trying to solve a problem. Einstein said you couldn’t solve a problem with the same thing that created it, and so it does take getting out of our heads to get it off our way.


[01:00:32] Mandy Flanders: And into our bodies, too, because the body has the code. The body has that healing code that we need to access because the head is thinking. A lot of times, it’s very logical. I find that right brain meditations or right brain therapies are extremely helpful because trauma is stored in the right brain, and the right brain is the creative, imaginative side of the brain. If you can access the trauma that’s stored there using guided imagery, transpersonal hypnotherapy or something like that — it doesn’t have to be the details but what the feeling is underneath the details — then you can hear whatever that wound is.

You’ll still have the trigger, but it won’t be debilitating, and it won’t be something that takes over your life anymore. It will be like, “Wow, I have this awareness of this thing that I used to feel, and I don’t have to get triggered over it anymore.”


[01:01:34] Ashley James: Brilliant. Something you shared on Facebook recently is one of the biggest things that you’ve changed that has helped your healing journey — to shift the focus on that self-love and to put yourself first. Not putting yourself first in that you are neglecting your children or your husband, or neglecting others. Why is it we always go there? You can’t put yourself first because it also means we’re neglecting others, but putting the oxygen mask on yourself first means you have the oxygen to help others.


[01:02:10] Mandy Flanders: Yes.


[01:02:10] Ashley James: It’s funny because some other listeners posted after your comment saying that they wanted to learn how to do that. How do we start the process of the self-love and putting ourselves first to help us heal?


[01:02:29] Mandy Flanders: As a mother, I find it extremely challenging because there’s so much guilt and shame around self-care that our society does not allow for mothers or women, in general, to care for ourselves. We are supposed to have a full-time job, take care of kids full time, take care of the house, manage all these things, grocery shop, cook, clean all these things, so it doesn’t leave a lot of time for self-care.

I realized one time, I told my husband, “I think I need a night or two at the house just by myself. In the time that we’ve lived here, I had never done that before. I was never alone in the house overnight by myself.” So he was going out to a concert and decided to take our kids to his parents’ house, and they left, and I waved goodbye, and I walked back inside.

I looked at this empty house, and I just started crying, like bawling crying. It wasn’t because I miss them, but I felt so lost. I was in caregiver mode all the time, making sure everybody’s needs are met, that finally I have the space to be my self, and I’m like, “What do I do with this? Who am I?” I sat on the couch, and I cried probably for about 30 minutes. It felt really good. It was cathartic.

I just sat there and was like, “What do I want to do?” I had no clue what I wanted to do — not a single inkling of an idea. So I just sat there, and I didn’t make any decisions because I didn’t want to force myself into something. I was like, I’m just going to sit here until I have something that I decide I want to do.

So then I decided that I wanted to meditate. I went and got my phone and set up this guided meditation area out on our back porch in the nice weather. The sun was shining, and the breeze was blowing. From there, I just continued to choose consciously the next inspired action, the next move that I wanted to make that was focused on me because I find that it’s important.

We lose ourselves a lot. Especially in illness and trauma, we don’t know who we are. We don’t feel safe in our bodies. When we’re able to ask ourselves what it is that we actually want, a lot of times we don’t even know. That’s why sometimes when you’re talking with your husband, it’s like, “Where do you want to eat? What do you feel like eating tonight?” “Oh, I don’t know. Whatever. Anything you want,” because we don’t know.

I have found for me, having moments like that where I sit quietly with myself and look inside of what it is that I actually do want or look for what I don’t want — a lot of times if you don’t know what you do want, you’ll know exactly what you don’t want, so you can figure out, “No, I don’t want those things, so let’s narrow down what it is I do want.”


[01:05:36] Ashley James: It’s so true.


[01:05:37] Mandy Flanders: Yeah. The more time I spend doing that, the more I’m able to get to know myself, and the more I can create my personalized rituals for self-care and for putting myself first. As a mother, I’ve noticed, like if I start to get triggered with my kids, it’s never my kids that are at fault. They’re little kids. They don’t know they’re not supposed to be asking me the same question ten million times in a row. They want an answer, so yeah, it makes perfect sense to them.

I find, when I’m getting triggered with them, it’s because I’m not carving out space for me to get my needs met. It’s not anyone else’s job to meet my needs except myself. That’s a hard concept for people, especially who are married, to grasp because we believe and we’ve been conditioned to think that our significant others are supposed to make us happy.

Nobody outside of us has that ability or power. It has to come from within ourselves, which is great if people are willing to take that initiative and to look inside and get introspective, but it’s a bummer if you’re looking for a lot of external validation, support, and help. I remember I told my husband, “I think we might be in a co-dependent relationship.” He was like, “Yeah, of course, we are.” I was like, “Wait, you knew?” He’s like, “Yeah.” I said, “Oh, okay. How do we get out of it?”


[01:07:19] Ashley James: That is so funny.


[01:07:20] Mandy Flanders: It’s by meeting your own needs. I realized in my healing process too that I was putting so much responsibility for my happiness on him or my kids. It’s not their job. It’s up to me to make sure that I am getting my needs met.

It might look different. Some days I may not want to get out of bed until nine or ten o’clock, and that’s okay. If I’m able to get the support, where I’m able to do that, then that’s acceptable. The things that make it unacceptable are how we feel about the needs that we want to have met.


[01:08:01] Ashley James: So if you feel guilty about sleeping in?


[01:08:05] Mandy Flanders: Yeah. I find that guilt or that shame is much worse for us than actually just doing what it is that we want to do, even if it’s eating candy or chocolate or whatever. Sometimes, that’s okay. If we’re choosing consciously what we want, without feeling guilty, then there’s nothing to feel guilty about because it’s not mindless action. It’s like, “I want chocolate right now because I just want it, and so I’m gonna do it.”


[01:08:35] Ashley James: Chocolate isn’t that bad if you choose healthy forms of it. I’ve got this organic vegan dark chocolate with no sugar, sweetened with stevia, definitely high in calories and fat, and okay it’s vegetable-based fat, but if I ate three bars of it a day, I definitely would gain weight. I can’t have this as a meal. This is the healthiest junk food I can find. This is pretty awesome. I eat it, and I love it, and then I make sure, like you said, do that internal check and make sure you’re not carrying around feelings of guilt or shame after you treat yourself because that is way more destructive than having that chocolate once in a while.


[01:09:20] Mandy Flanders: And it gets trapped. So something that could be used for good then turns into poison, and that doesn’t help any of us.


[01:09:28] Ashley James: Yeah, that guilt and shame we carry around when we start to put ourselves first, and then that guilt and shame come up and is triggering our stress response. That is damaging to the body, shutting down the immune system, shutting down the body’s ability to heal, and that can create physical disease. This is where it’s real. The science is there that, long term, if we continue to hold on to guilt and shame every time we do something nice for ourselves, we can manifest disease.


[01:10:04] Mandy Flanders: And then we can develop almost like an allergic reaction to self-care. There’s like an energetic component too that when we do something good for ourselves, our body rejects it.


[01:10:19] Ashley James: That’s a nice thing.


[01:10:22] Mandy Flanders: I have a friend who was reaching out to me recently saying that whenever he starts to take new supplements, he reacts to it. Intuitively, I started asking questions, and I was like, “Hey, I think you have an allergic reaction to self-care.” He was like, “I have been working on that for so long in therapy.” I said, “Oh, okay. Well, it’s manifesting.”


[01:10:54] Ashley James: I’ve heard that when people get massages. I’ve heard of people that go get a massage, and then they feel really bad afterward, and I’m like, “Let’s go down the list. Do you drink enough water? Do you think your body was processing toxins? When was the last time you took care of yourself and you did something nice for yourself?”

“This was like the first time in twenty years.”

“How did you feel after getting a massage? Do you feel guilty because you weren’t with your kids? What’s going on?”


[01:11:22] Mandy Flanders: It’s so common to feel that way.


[01:11:28] Ashley James: So walk us through it. Break us free from the chains of the stereotypical mom/wife putting everyone first and neglecting your own needs. Let’s break through from that. That’s an old behavior that no longer serves us. From now on, what are we committed to? What kinds of things can we do day to day? What kind of homework can you give us to begin to put ourselves first in a way that allows us to take of ourselves, so we can take care of those we love?


[01:12:03] Mandy Flanders: I should create a protocol for this. This is a good idea. Awareness, of course, is super important. I think curiosity is important, too — curiosity about our triggers. That doesn’t mean that you have to resolve the trigger right then, but when you’re feeling triggered, having a child-like curiosity about it, so that instead of allowing yourself to run off with this trigger, you’re more able to rein it in. Like, “Wow, this is triggering to me. I’ll deal with that later. What do I have to do now to get my needs met and whatever thing is in front of me need met?”

I find too for moms, especially stay-at-home moms, even moms who work outside the home, taking breaks as often as necessary because we are designed to live in a village. We’re designed to live with a lot of support. The way that we live is very isolated. We don’t have a lot of help unless you have a nanny or somebody coming in to help, which most people don’t have that. Making sure that you’re giving yourself breaks, even if it’s a five-minute break. A lot of times, we don’t need as many breaks as we think we do.

So even if it’s that you’re letting your kids play with a toy or something that they never get to play with, or even if you’re letting them watch a TV show for five minutes or a YouTube song or something like that, just giving yourself five minutes every couple of hours to make sure that you’re able to check in with yourself and ask yourself, “Is there something that I need right now?”

I like to do it before I have a complete meltdown because, after the fact, it’s a lot harder to pick up the pieces than before the fact. The prevention is worth than an ounce of cure in that situation. And then nobody gets hurt feelings because there’s not a mom that’s angry and yelling at people.

In that time, making sure that you are not on your phone. We get so sucked in to being on a screen when we’re taking a break because we think, “I want to zone out. I want to decompress.”

But when we are plugging into the blue eye and to the screen, it’s actually worse for the brain than not doing that. I suggest closing the phone, closing the computer, go outside if you can, read a book, journal, do anything that gets you out of your brain and into your body so that you are able to manage those triggers more easily. And then you’re not beating yourself up because you’ve given yourself space to process anything that’s come up in the last couple of hours, and anything that may come up in the future.


[01:15:00] Ashley James: I discovered that there are some grocery stores that have cool kid centers where they’ll watch your kids for ninety minutes.


[01:15:07] Mandy Flanders: Wow!


[01:15:07] Ashley James: Also the YMCA usually has free WiFi, a lobby or meeting rooms that are comfortable. There are three or four grocery stores in our area that have this. He loves them all, and then usually they’ll have a sitting area. We’ve read books, talked, shopped, done work. We get to have a little bit of a break and decompress, and our son loves it too because he gets to play with kids. Of course, we do outdoors in the park and go for a walk, the regular stuff. But if you need your kid to be locked in a room with toys and supervision for free — amazing. It’s been a lifesaver.


[01:15:49] Mandy Flanders: That’s so awesome. That’s a good point, too. I recently started working out again, and we have 24-Hour Fitness near here. It’s such a great gym, and the kid care is so good. You have to clock in with a fingerprint, and they only allow one family in at a time in the room to check out and check in, so that kids don’t go home with somebody that’s not their parent, which is great. And then I get my break, and I have the energy to work out again, which is so awesome. She gets to play with little kids, and mommy gets to do my thing, which is awesome.


[01:16:33] Ashley James: That’s very cool. I like that you brought up that we should take breaks, minimum of five minutes, several times a day. We could take longer breaks, but when we’re taking our breaks, do not plug into a screen. It needs to be a time of self-reflection, to ask ourselves, “What is it that I need?” It’s okay that we don’t know.

I had a similar experience. I had some time alone, and I was all caught up in work and caught up with all my detox protocols. I’m like, “I really don’t know what to do with myself right now.” I feel like I’m so used to being busy, there should be something on my to-do list. I felt lost, like, “Who am I? What is life? What is the purpose of life?” All these questions are coming up like, “I have five minutes of nothing to do. I don’t know how to handle this.”

So I totally know what you mean. Sometimes we need to sit and do nothing and be with ourselves, reconnect and ground ourselves again instead of avoiding because we’re so good at avoiding and being stimulated externally so that we don’t start to listen to what’s going on inside.

There is a thing that’s like Tinder for moms, and I’m swiping down. It’s swiping down for no because every single one of them is like, “Let’s go drinking.” “Let’s go crack open a bottle of wine.” I’m like, “Oh, my god. How many mothers are drinking?” Again, no judgment zone, but why is that it’s culturally acceptable to down a bottle of wine a night in order to sleep or cope? I wish it were more culturally acceptable to get a massage, meditate, and journal every night to de-stress and connect with yourself again.


[01:18:37] Mandy Flanders: I agree so much. I feel like in some areas that is starting to shift. It’s definitely not the mainstream yet, but I feel like that shift is starting to happen. I ‘m starting to see it. I’m getting more messages from people: “How do I do this? What food should I be eating? How do I not freak out at my kids?”


[01:19:00] Ashley James: I like that you brought up that when your kid asks something five times, and then you explode at them, that is not your kid. It’s you and your stress threshold. Your rain barrel is full, and if you do the things — the journaling, the meditation, the walks, the deep breathing, the yoga, all the self-care — then your kid can ask you the same question twenty times, and you’re not going to snap at them. It’s a litmus test. If you’re agitated around your children, that is the sign that your stress levels are too high.

If you could be around your kid and they’re their most annoying self, and you’re just bursting with joy and love for them, then you know you’re doing something right when it comes to managing your stress.


[01:19:47] Mandy Flanders: Exactly. Our kids are so sensitive to what we feel. They’re like little sponges. Even if we are not aware that we’re stressed, they pick up on it and react as such, which is so interesting, too, because I am often not aware of how I’m feeling, and then I’m like, “Why are my kids acting so crazy?” And then immediately, I’m triggered. I’m like, “I guess there was some underlying upset going on in there that I didn’t know was there.”


[01:20:17] Ashley James: Absolutely. You’ve been painting this picture of your story, and here we are. Your whole family has recovered from black mold in the last two years, which has been quite the journey. It was two years ago that you had this event since you have done this work where the black mold has allowed you to see that healing emotions is just as important as the food we put in us. In some cases, more important because it is at the root of what’s going on.

Paint a picture of what’s happened since then, since you’ve been working on healing yourself emotionally. What’s been going on in your life and the life of your children? Paint that ‘after’ picture.


[01:21:17] Mandy Flanders: Immediately after I started addressing the emotions, my kids’ immune systems started to improve, which was a huge shocker for me because I didn’t realize how interconnected a mother and her children are until that. I’ve always known and believed. It’s like mothers and kids are so interconnected and intertwined, and we feel everything. But I had not actually witnessed it so clearly as I did then when their immune system started to get better, and they weren’t getting sick as often or for as long.

Of course, my energy level has improved. My digestion has improved. My stress levels have decreased dramatically. I used to not feel comfortable in my house alone at night. Now, I don’t have any issue with that at all. I feel very safe. I feel safe in my own body. When I have emotions and things that come up to the surface, I feel much more at peace and able to handle it, or able to sit in it and allow it to pass.

My mentor recently said to me, “I guess you’re feeling better because I haven’t heard from you in a while.” That was a pretty good indication that things are moving in the right direction. I’m able to work out more, which is amazing for me because I wasn’t working out for a long time. I am way more patient than I’ve been. I’m more organized than I’ve been. Organization is something that I’ve struggled with my whole life, and I’m finally starting to organize little areas of my life within work and parenting and things like that.

My relationship with my husband has improved dramatically, which is a huge bonus for both of us because I’m not nagging at him expecting him to do things for me that he cannot do because he’s not me.


[01:23:26] Ashley James: Sorry, that’s hilarious. That’s exactly what a guy would say. I get mad at my husband for doing things that I want him to do, but I need to do it. That’s funny.

But, yeah, owning your stuff because we so easily will point a finger. We point the finger at our kids, “They’re the reason why I’m snapping,” or point the finger at our husbands, “What he did is the reason I am upset.” What we really have is unfulfilled expectations. These are expectations that we created.

We create expectations, and then when people don’t fulfill them — they’re supposed to be psychic, and they’re supposed to know what our expectations are, right?


[01:24:18] Mandy Flanders: Yes.


[01:24:22] Ashley James: Like I expect the groceries to be carried in or whatever. We expect something, and then they don’t do it, we get upset. It’s our fault that we are upset because we’re the ones that created the expectation. And so we need to be better at communicating but also better at owning our stuff and going, “Wait a second, is it everyone else that’s ticking me off, or is it me?” I’m the one that choosing to be upset because I’m not taking care of myself. I’m blaming everyone else. I’m stressed out. I’m not taking care of myself because when I do, I feel guilty about it, so I’d rather not take care of myself than blame everyone else for me not taking care of myself.


[01:25:05] Mandy Flanders: And not asking for help. That’s another really big one that a lot of people struggle with. We don’t want to ask for help because we don’t want to burden anybody. We don’t want to put anyone out. We don’t feel like we deserve it. There’s a whole slew of reasons that we don’t ask for help, and it’s essential in the society.

We have to have help. We can’t do this on our own. We have to have somebody who can witness our healing, someone who can take care of our kids while someone else is witnessing our healing; somebody who can give us recipes for cooking, somebody who can be a shoulder to cry on. We need all kinds of support systems in place for us to be thriving members of society.


[01:25:49] Ashley James: How?


[01:25:52] Mandy Flanders: Asking for help, I think.


[01:25:54] Ashley James: Yeah, how? For someone so uncomfortable in asking for help, what are some ways that we can break through and begin to ask for help?


[01:26:07] Mandy Flanders: Starting small. So I guess asking for things that you believe you deserve and then focusing on the things that we believe we deserve. If it’s comfortable to ask somebody to hold the door open for you when you have your arms full of stuff, start there. That can be your entryway into asking for more help. If we don’t ask for things, we won’t get the things that we want, because we’re not asking for them.

One thing I’m doing with my kids — they whine about everything because that’s their first way of communicating. They whine, and we would meet their needs because that’s how it works. They don’t know how to speak it. So now when my daughter whines, I look at her and I’m like, “I hear you whining, and I see you look upset. Is there something I can help you with?” She’ll go, “I don’t know.” I’m like, “What is it because I don’t know what you’re thinking. I’m not a mind reader. Help me out. Help me to help you.” Sometimes she’ll whine some more, and then eventually we’ll narrow it down, and she’s able to ask, “I need your help. Can you help me with this?”

Start little. We were taught to not ask for help. We’re taught to not ask for things. We’re taught to be in this co-dependent communication styles where we whine or say, “Oh, man, my pen doesn’t work,” hoping that somebody is going to rush in and bring you a new pen.

For me, specifically, when I work to teach my kids to ask for what they need, it teaches me and reminds me that, “Yeah, I’m allowed to ask for what I need to.” Other people are allowed to say no; just because I’m asking for something doesn’t mean they have an obligation to give it to me. But I do have a right to ask for what it is that I need or want.


[01:27:57] Ashley James: That’s beautiful. I love it. Start small. Start with what you’re comfortable, and if you’re uncomfortable asking for someone to hold the door open, if you’re not comfortable with the small stuff, then there’s something to uncover there about deserving it.

My husband and I have been together for eleven years, and I would complain that I’m the only one that cooks. He smiled, and he’d be like, “Why would I cook? Your food is so good.” But recently, I said, “I need you in the kitchen.” He gets there and be like, “What do you need?” I handed him a knife and a cutting board, “You’re going to prep these veggies.”

Two hours later, we’ve made like a week’s worth of food together and had a ton of fun. Our son watched us in the kitchen and helped as much as he could. I told him to get his chair. He could stand on it, watch, and throw things in the food processor, that kind of thing. But it was a family event instead of me griping over food which is not healthy. I love cooking by the way, but I was getting into the habit of eating out far too much because I want the break. I want the service — someone else to serve me the food.

Every time we went out, my husband whose vegan would say, “Your food is so much better than anything we can get in any of these restaurants, and then we’re walking away having paid fifty dollars that we should not have spent. This food is not healthy. It’s not organic.” He starts lecturing me on health. He’s like, “You know it’s full of round-up. What are we doing? This is probably GMO. There’s crappy oil in this food. So why?” I’m like, “It’s because no one cooks.” He does the dishes, thank god. This house would have every dish dirty, but I would not do the dishes. I cook; you have to clean.

I’ve really enjoyed that my husband is so wonderful in that way. It gets old being the only one that cooks. So now he preps with me, and he follows right behind me cleaning and prepping. He has so much fun doing it too, and then he gets to say what goes in the food too. We ended up creating dishes together, and I actually had him look through a recipe book and pick out some recipes. I don’t follow recipes, but I follow the general — “Here’s an idea of recipes.” I always like to create my own, but he gave some new ideas as to what we could do. It became fun, and I realize how much I had been blaming him and nagging on him when I was giving away my power. I was creating the nagging.

Landmark Education had a program called the Forum, and I’ve done all of their classes. They say that complaining is a form of domination. It took me years to get it. I was the one in control, even though I was acting like a victim. In this situation, I was not being victimized, but I was acting like a victim, and I was controlling the situation dominating through complaining.

It’s just interesting how, when we start to own our power and come back to our power, we get our voice back, and then we can improve the quality of our lives and our relationships because we realized that our complaining and our feelings of being a victim is we set that up. We can create something different by making powerful requests of people for help.

[01:31:40] Mandy Flanders: Yes, exactly right. It’s huge to be able to see ourselves clearly in such a way that allows for those kinds of changes and improvements to be made.


[01:31:53] Ashley James: You’ve brought up so many wonderful tips here today. I feel like we’re just getting warmed up.


[01:32:00] Mandy Flanders: I know.


[01:32:03] Ashley James: You had mentioned that you guide your clients through a process where they can begin to do some healing. You said it’s not hypnotherapy, but you guide through some imagery. Would you be comfortable with guiding us today through some self-awareness that allows us to start to become curious and see what it is that we need?


[01:32:32] Mandy Flanders: Let me see. It’s very intuitively led. I would say first, if you’re in a trigger, and you have this feeling of anger coming up, I ask my clients to feel that anger in your body or whatever the emotion is. Just feel in your body and notice where you’re feeling it. Notice the sensations that are coming up. And then to explore any other times in the past that you have felt that sensation physically or mentally before.

And then depending on what comes up, just exploring and sitting with that, and I will usually guide them to notice what they’re noticing about this other situation. Usually, it’s from childhood. And then I encourage them to visit that younger version of themselves as adult them, and to tell them that they’re safe. Tell this younger version of you that you are safe, and that you didn’t do anything wrong, and that it’s not your fault what happened to you. And then usually at that point, there is an awesome feeling of release.

Sometimes for some clients, it takes a little bit of time to get there because that inner child part of them is not feeling ready to come out. They don’t feel safe, so we have to find ways to tweak that to where they can feel safe to come out and show us what is going on.


[01:34:36] Ashley James: It’s a beautiful process, and it unfolds, but the awareness, as you said, is the first step. As I said, I was so afraid of becoming aware, thinking that there was a lot of dark stuff in me, and what I found is that it’s beautiful, that every time something is presented to be released and to learn from, that it ultimately was a beautiful discovery. It shifted into something beautiful. So we have to be willing to take those steps to become self-aware.


[01:35:13] Mandy Flanders: Exactly, because without the awareness, we don’t know what to change or what needs healing because we’re still in the dark.


[01:35:24] Ashley James: One of your certifications is NES Bioenergetic scans.


[01:35:31] Mandy Flanders: Oh, yeah.


[01:35:32] Ashley James: You haven’t really talked about that yet. I’m curious.


[01:35:36] Mandy Flanders: I learned about NES from your show, and I had to some investigating. NES Bioenergetic is amazing. It’s a tool that interacts with the body field and can pick up distortions in the body field and lays it out in a format that’s easy for us to understand.

Within that, I love looking at the emotions that underlie the physical manifestations, of course. But NES, it shows different shock traumas, and it can show you if you are in an active conflict state, if you’re in a chronic conflict state, or if you’re entering into a healing resolution of a conflict.

A conflict could be a trauma. It could be shock. It could be something that is conflicting you at that time. It doesn’t have to be something so intense, but something that is impacting you energetically. Using that has been a profound tool in working with my clients because it does help access those deeper layers of things that a lot of times people don’t know is there.


[01:37:06] Ashley James: Can you share an example or a story of recent success with a client using that system?


[01:37:12] Mandy Flanders: I have a few. There is a man that I was working with recently. He came to me because he suffered a head injury, something really heavy fell on his head.

He came to me, and I looked at his scan and noticed that there was a lot of stuff coming up demonstrating that he was in a chronic conflict state. In using the scan, it gave me an entry point into the underlying traumas. I learned that this man dealt with a lot of abuse in early childhood and became a drug addict very early on with his father. They didn’t tell the mother, and then the mother found out that he was doing drugs but not with his father and sent him to rehab.

He had all these different traumas going on, and his father was very physical with him. All of these things were manifesting in his current relationship where he was not very physical, but he would get frustrated easily or felt like his partner was very controlling, or that she was very undermining, or things like that.

So using NES and that kind of guided imagery that I just talked about, we were able to come to a resolution and help him to see that the current triggers in his life had nothing to do with what was going on. We were able to subconsciously link the present triggers to the past triggers, and he has told me that his relationship has changed completely almost overnight. He is much more aware of how he’s feeling, and he doesn’t put his feelings on his partner anymore. He’s able to be more introspective when he’s having a trigger. He can pause more. He’s learning how to set healthy boundaries. We only had two sessions together.

He’s setting these healthy boundaries with her and telling her, “I’m not comfortable talking about that with you. Can we talk about this later?” Things that he would never have felt comfortable saying before, but he would have felt comfortable telling her, “You’re so nosy. You’re such a nag,” things like that. So he’s just communicating in a much more healthy way.


[01:40:00] Ashley James: I love it. When we’re feeling defensive, typically we’ll lash out. If something they did is uncomfortable, then we’ll lash out. I get that we snap at people and we call them names, and we become abusive ourselves when we are very insecure about letting them see something or when we don’t know how to protect our boundaries healthily.

That is so interesting. Isn’t it amazing when we look at how we interact in our emotions, communication, our relationships? It’s sticky and messy, but then when you start to unfold everything, it all makes sense.


[01:40:46] Mandy Flanders: I know. It’s such a gift, too. I feel like we have this innate gift within us that a lot of people don’t even know is there. We don’t realize that we have this ability to explore these things and uncover these things and then ultimately heal them. When I told this man, I said, “This stuff that you’re dealing with in your partnership has nothing to do with the present time,” and he was like, “What?” The thought of that blew his mind. He was like, “There’s no way. I’m upset with her.” And I’m like, “That’s true. What you’re feeling is true, but it has very little to do with her. It has everything to do with what happened to you as a kid.”


[01:41:29] Ashley James: Exactly. It’s so funny. So you have these wonderful systems. You help people to coach them emotionally, mentally, physically, energetically. You’re helping people on all levels. Is there anything else that you want to make sure that you convey to the listeners today?


[01:41:56] Mandy Flanders: Yeah. I believe that everybody is doing their best. Whatever that looks like, it’s going to be different for everybody. Just remember that we all come from somewhere. Everybody has a story. We don’t end up doing what we do, Ashley, out of just pure passion. There’s a reason we stepped into these lines of work, and we all have a story. We all come from somewhere.

If we’re able to honor our story, then we can see the stories that other people are living within as well, and we don’t have to live from this place of anger, upset, or dysfunction. It can be a lot more holistic, compassionate, understanding and realizing that people are not out to get us. We’re all just suffering here together. We’re all in this together.

[01:43:05] Ashley James: Exactly. We’re all going through our stuff. Remember those perfect girls and perfect guys in high school? When you look at them, you think, “Their lives are so great, and everyone likes them.” We always thought that they were somehow different than us. They didn’t have insecurities. They didn’t have drama. They didn’t have childhood abuse or anything. They were just perfect, and we were broken and flawed. We’re weird or whatever. There’s nothing wrong with them.


It’s just so funny as adults now to go every single one of us, all the ones that we looked up or thought were so perfect, confident, or popular, they all were insecure. They all were vulnerable and worried and had their stuff and did not have it together. We are all like that. We’re all worried about what everyone else thinks. Everyone else is this mob, this collective consciousness that judges us, and we’re the only ones that are somehow bad and wrong.


It’s just really funny that we give away so much of our power like that. When we get that we’re all human, that we’re all going through the same emotions, we can start to be more gentle with ourselves.


[01:44:25] Mandy Flanders: It’s kind of endearing that we think that we’re the only ones that are going through something. That’s like a little two-year-old. That’s our inner two-year-old. That’s like, “But what about me? I’m hurting, too.” And that two-year-old probably needs a little hug and attention, and maybe some journaling and meditation and some chocolate.


[01:44:47] Ashley James: Yes. Let’s all get the stevia-infused chocolate, my favorite. That’s so awesome. Mandy, for listeners who are just in love with you, they can go to your website,


Of course, they can join the Learn True Health Facebook group and see you there because you’re all over the Facebook group with us, and you have such a wonderful journey. You have an entire lifetime of experience that you bring to helping.


What I love about your healing practice is you’re coming from your heart. You really are heart-centered when you work with your clients, so those who are inspired by Mandy should definitely go check out your website,, and see about working with you.


Is there anything on your website they should make sure that they look at, or should they follow you on social media? Where do you want people to make sure that they go to?


[01:45:49] Mandy Flanders: I’m a lot more active on my social media, on my Instagram and my Facebook page. I’m hoping to change and become more active on my website, but as of right now, my Facebook page, mandywellness, and my Instagram handle is mandy_flanders.


[01:46:11] Ashley James: Awesome. We’ll make sure the links to everything you do, including your social media, is in the show notes of today’s podcast at You got to go and feed that cat.


[01:46:20] Mandy Flanders: I know. I’m sorry.


[01:46:23] Ashley James: I’m like, “Oh, kitty, kitty, kitty.” I’m such a cat person. That’s so funny.


[01:46:28] Mandy Flanders: She’s so needy.


[01:46:30] Ashley James: Like all of us.


[01:46:31] Mandy Flanders: I know.


[01:46:32] Ashley James: We all have this inner cat that’s just needy inside of us. Talk about metaphors.

Mandy, it’s been so much fun having you here today. Thank you so much for coming and sharing with us. I’m sure we’re going to have some great questions from the listeners in our Facebook group, and I’d love to have you back.


[01:46:49] Mandy Flanders: Thank you so much. I would love to come back. That would be such an honor. Thank you so much for having me. This was so awesome.


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Susan Luschas and Ashley James

Susan Luschas, Ph.D. recounts how their daughter’s diagnoses of failure to thrive and full-blown autism led the family to undertake a journey of healing through diet, sleep, stress relief, detox, and supplements. Desperation led to the discovery of “new science,” and they compiled the resources in their website, Debug Your Health, for anyone to use for free.


[00:00:14] Ashley James: Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health podcast. You are in for such a treat today. This interview is mind-blowing. You are going to love it.

One of the things we talked about in the interview was the importance of using the sauna to help detox. I already let you know that my absolute favorite company is Sunlighten Sauna last February, so it’s been over a year. I finally made the purchase to get a Sunlighten Sauna. My naturopath has told me I needed to use this type of detox. It’s very gentle, but it is the most effective way to remove toxins stored in our fat cells.

I noticed an improvement in my inflammation. It went down. My liver health began to improve. I started to lose weight. I lost about twelve pounds in my first month of using it. Of course, that was inflammation. Some of that might have been fat, but that was toxins and inflammation, and I started to feel better. Now, I can’t even imagine life without using my sauna. I use it almost every day. It is so relaxing. It’s me time. It’s a wonderful experience.

I had several episodes where we talked about the benefits of sauna therapy. You can go to and search. There is a search function on our website where you can type in ‘sauna.’ I have interviewed the founder of Sunlighten, as well as one of the women who work there. I know she is listening — hello! It was a great interview with both of them because we dove into wonderful stories of how the body heals itself using this type of therapy.

Not everyone can have a wooden sauna in their house, apartment, or condo, and so Sunlighten does have a portable system. It’s wonderful for doctors, massage therapists, and acupuncturists. What it provides is the ability to get the benefits of sauna therapy in a very small space. It becomes about the size of a massage table. You can store it away in your closet when you’re not using it.

Many of my listeners have contacted me and told me that they purchased the Solo system, and they enjoy it. The reason why my husband loves it is your head is not inside. You’re not breathing in hot air. For me, I love the 3-in-1 Sunlighten wooden sauna where my whole body is in it, and I’m sitting in it. I really enjoy that. The air is not that stuffy and hot. It’s very enjoyable.

But some people get claustrophobic, or they just don’t want to breathe in hot air. With the Solo system, you’re lying down on non-toxic bamboo-based memory foam. It’s very comfortable, and then you have this cocoon around you. Everything is non-toxic, ultra-low EMF, and you begin to sweat in a gentle way, but your head is outside of it on a pillow, and so you’re comfortable. A lot of people end up falling asleep or meditating while they’re doing it. It’s so relaxing.

Afterward, you take a towel, wipe it down, and put it away. You take a shower, and that’s it. It’s something that you can do for half an hour a day, in your evening or your morning, or after a workout because it does reduce the pain and inflammation from workouts. People do notice that they bounce back or rebound after their workout, depending on what your goals are, whether it’s endurance, weight loss, or detox.

For me, my biggest thing is detox and weight loss, but some people do it for the cardiovascular benefits. There are studies that show that it significantly helps to balance blood pressure, and so there’s that cardiovascular component. But whatever your goals are, I have found that sauna therapy is incredibly supportive.

If you want more information, give them a call. You can Google Sunlighten, give them a call, and talk to them about their different systems and what works best for you. I do know that they will give us a great special. I told Sunlighten, “Hey, if I enjoy this and it works for me, I’m definitely going to tell my listeners about it.” I want to make sure that we get a group buy discount, that all of my listeners get some kind of special, and so they gave us a great deal. Just like anything else that I use and recommend, I make sure that I get some great deal because if we’re all going to buy it together, we might as well get some special, right?

If you do have a sauna and you’ve been using sauna therapy, join the Facebook group, Learn True Health on Facebook, and please share your experience. I want to know how it’s positively impacted your life. A lot of the listeners keep sharing that sauna therapy has been key to helping them to get on the other side of what they’re suffering from.

I know you’re going to love today’s show. Enjoy, and as always, continue to share this podcast with those you know it’ll help. My goal is to help over a million people to get their health back and to discover true health for themselves. I’m going to do that with your help. Together, we’re going to turn this ripple into a tidal wave and help as many people as possible to learn true health.

I am so excited about today’s interview. We have with us an amazing woman, Susan Luschas, Ph.D., who has a story that you are going to love hearing. Her website is Debug Your Health. That’s a hundred-percent free website that is a gift to the world, a resource of all the information she has collected on how to heal the body.

I love your website. I love your mission. I first heard about you through Scott Forsgren. We’ve had him on the show twice, and the listeners loved learning from him. He healed himself from Lyme disease and has gone on to help many others do the same, as well as other people who don’t have Lyme disease but want to learn how to gain better health.

Susan, he highly recommended that we have you on the show because your resources are phenomenal. I’m excited to learn more about you and how you came to build the website, Debugging Your Health. Welcome to the show.


[00:06:45] Susan Luschas: Thank you. Thanks for having me. It’s so great that you’re out there doing podcasts like this with information that you can’t always find online or with your health care provider. Thank you for doing this podcast.


[00:07:00] Ashley James: Absolutely. You’re welcome. I do it because I spent years being sick. I think similar to your story, when I started finding the answers that helped me, I knew I had a mission to spread this information. Let’s hear your story. Take us back to the beginning. What led you on this path? You are an MIT-trained scientist and engineer. What made you focus on health?


[00:07:25] Susan Luschas: Out of desperation, which is how I think many of us end up working on health issues. My desperation was not my health. It was the health of my oldest child, and I always say the only thing worse than being sick yourself is having a child who’s sick.

What I did with my oldest child was I took her around to all of her doctors and said, “What’s wrong? What can we do?” She had all kinds of diagnoses. She had failure to thrive — super skinny, not growing enough. She had mood issues. She didn’t want to eat. She was nauseous. There were behavior issues — all kinds of things, sometimes, not wanting to go to school or do things that she used to want to do. I’d take her here or there, and she got all kinds of diagnoses.

We tried everything that everybody said. Doctor A would say, “Take vitamin C,” we took vitamin C. Doctor B would say, “Go to the hospital and get these x-rays,” we went to the hospital and got the x-rays. She was hospitalized twice for various tests. We went in for upper GI, a barium test, and an ultrasound. Anything anybody told us to do, we did and went to the end of that road with Practitioner A, and then we’d go on to Practitioner B.

I was spending all these time and money driving my child around, trying to figure this out, and finally, I realized clearly after all these practitioners and hundreds of thousands of dollars per year deducted on our taxes, even though we have insurance — they don’t know. We came to that conclusion.

And so the question is, “Who does know?” Thank God, my husband and I have the resources that we could fly anywhere if we had to, pay money if we had to because we both had engineering jobs. But it was unclear that even if we did that, anyone would be able to help us. At the end of the day, we did end up flying to one practitioner. But anyway, if I continue as to what happened, we got to the end of the road, and it became, “Are we going to institutionalize her and go on with working?” because I was struggling to work between all these doctor appointments, her being sick and what-not?

The other idea would be, “Let’s give it a try ourselves. Let’s use our heads here and try and figure it out by ourselves.” Because after all these practitioner visits and all these, along the way I’m thinking — because I’m an engineer and scientist and I’m trained to think. So I would say, “What about this? What about that? What if we do this?”

I didn’t even care if it was Western. I didn’t care if it was Eastern. I didn’t care if it was energy. I didn’t really care what it was. I’d gladly stand on my head for five hours a day if that helped her. It didn’t matter what kind of modality it was.

My husband and I almost got divorced over the issue, but finally, I said, “Well, you’re going to drive her to the institution.” He’s like, “No, I can’t do that.” I said, “Well, then we’re going to try it ourselves.” If you won’t even drive her and drop her off, then we got to try it ourselves.

I took over essentially as her primary care provider and called all the shots. I started thinking of these practitioners as consultants on my team. I stopped going to them and doing what they said. I started going to them if I needed to and taking what they said and maybe thinking about it or considering it, and then either do something related to that or not. It started to change my thought about how I approach health and wellness and these practitioners.

To summarize, my husband and I started doing muscle testing. We learned how over many years of just practice, practice, practice. That ended up helping to give us a lot of the answers. Does she need an antimicrobial? Does she need detox? Does she need to go in the sauna and sweat?

Fast-forwarding, we got her back to what I would say is about 90% health with mostly diet and gut work. We started with no gluten. That didn’t do anything. No dairy — that didn’t do anything. No grains, we went to one cup of rice a week — that didn’t do anything either.

I had already gotten rid of all sugar, any sugar — not like we ever ate much of it anyway. But finally, I got rid of fruit and the last couple of rice, and boom — she went completely autistic, rocking back and forth in the closet. My husband freaked out, almost divorced me for the second time, and said “We got to stop. We got to give her some fruit and some rice.” I said, “No, this is part of her detox. We have to support her detox pathways and get her moving through this.” Sure enough, a couple of days of full autism, she came out just the best we’ve seen her in many years.

This whole process took us several years of her life. At one point, she had gotten so sick, and she could barely walk. She couldn’t go to school. She had gotten down to that point, but what ended up being the big hitter for her was the diet and gut piece. By the time we had eliminated all these stuff, and she was finally doing better, the diet was basically meat and vegetables — no sugars, no grains, no processed food. It was grass-fed meats and organic vegetables. We had always eaten organic vegetables, but we had to get rid of everything else and shift her gut.

I also fasted with her at age four and six. She is now twelve, so it’s hard for me to remember. I think it was around age four, five, or six — something like that. We fasted twice for thirty days. Who would do that with a kid that’s failing to thrive? But that’s what she needed at that time. That got her 90% on the way, and then right about that time, our family had a horrible head lice infestation. I never had head lice before. It turns out the head lice spread whatever she had to the rest of us.


[00:14:18] Ashley James: Oh, wow!


[00:14:19] Susan Luschas: Right around that time that she was finally better and we got the head lice, almost simultaneously a couple of things happened. One was we finally got a positive Lyme diagnosis. She had been tested for Lyme many times over these years, and it always came out somewhat negative, meaning negative but maybe positive on band 41, which some practitioner say band 41 could be a dental infection. It could be an infection somewhere else. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s Lyme.

Right around that time that she was better, we tested again for Lyme, and she came up positive on every single active band. Basically, what happens is the Lyme Western blot test, which is not the test, but that’s what we were using, measures antibodies. If your body is not fighting it, there are no antibodies. If your body is too overwhelmed to fight it, you won’t produce the antibodies that the test is looking for. It turns out that’s what she had.

She had Lyme and every single co-infection that comes with Lyme that we’ve tested for. She has Borrelia, Babesia, Mycoplasma, and Ehrlichia. Everything that we’ve tested for, she got with the Lyme. She had a couple of tick bites. We’re assuming the Lyme came from the first tick bite she had, but can’t prove that for sure. The head lice infestation, you can catch Lyme from head lice. There are people who say you can’t — not in our experience.

About six months after the head lice, the rest of our health started to go down the tubes — myself, my husband, and her little sister. Luckily, she had suffered for years, so we didn’t have to. I knew exactly what it must be. I knew exactly where to look. Her suffering sort of saved the rest of us from a lot of Lyme suffering because we already knew where to look for that.

Going back to her health, she was about at 90%. She still had some things that were a little funky, like the Lyme went after the hypothalamus and she stopped sweating. She lost the ability to sweat. Here in NorCal, we have a lot of sun, and she would literally get red in the face and all over, and she wouldn’t sweat. We had to solve that problem, which was a weird problem to solve in a young child. We ended up solving that with some supplements and constant sauna therapy, which she still does to this day.

She also had this horseshoe rash that kept coming on her arm. It wasn’t bothering her, but it was bothering me. It’s like, “Something is still going on there. Something is still wrong there.” Potentially, she can have even better health than she has now. I don’t know who this child is because she’s been sick for so long. I don’t know what healthy looks like for her. I assumed she was healthy because she was going to school, playing sports, and acting like a normal kid. She is eating. She’s sleeping. She’s back on the growth chart — all those things.

But the horseshoe rash bothered me. I figured it must be some parasite because it came and went usually with the full moon. That’s when our family flew to Dr. Simon Yu in St. Louis. He’s the only one, in my opinion, that we have right now who’s treating parasites. To be fair, I knew they were parasites, so obviously I tried a bunch of things at home. I tried every known parasite herb and supplement and things like that. The one thing I had not tried at that point was enemas because how do you do an enema in a five-year-old and her sister was two or three? So that was the one thing I hadn’t tried, but all the other supplements, rife machine, and light therapy — we had done all that for parasites and weren’t there.

That’s when we flew to Simon Yu. We worked with him on the parasite piece. He helped fill in some pieces there. We came home, and then I finally said, “This kid got to take some enemas.” We started doing enemas in a five-year-old, which some people say is child abuse. It turns out it was one of the best things I ever did for both the children. I made them both do it because Simon tells us that if one person in the family has parasites, probably everyone does, and they’re very easy to catch and re-catch and spread around. I was intelligent enough to treat the whole family while we were treating her.

Immediately after the enema, we had some worms come out, and the kids definitely stepped up their behavior, and their overall health and well-being after the enema started, and then we ended up doing prescription parasite medications that Simon prescribed us as well — super steps forward for us.

Along the way, once you have Lyme, one of the things you have to do is try to clear up other infections. Things like parasite infections, hidden dental infections, your gut, structural issues, chiropractic/osteopathic issues, you need to make sure your body is methylating and getting all the minerals it needs. You need to make sure your heavy metal level isn’t too high, that you’re constantly detoxing. There are all these things you need to do to solve Lyme disease in addition to the diet in the gut.

The diet and the gut process was the big piece, but to be fair, we were doing some of these other things, too. Along the way, we had done many forms of chelation, most of it natural versions, and many forms of detox, minerals, and things like that to support. Along the way, my husband and I also went through the dental infections and clearing those out, gallbladder and liver flush, parasite medications, orthodontics. The kids mostly went through that — all kinds of topics that we had to go through to regain health.

At the end of all these, I was like, “Wow, I actually feel better than I have in twenty years. I’ve never felt this good.” I think most of that for me was clearing out my dental issues and clearing out my parasite issues. It’s like, “Whoa, whole new life! Who cares if my body is fighting Lyme in the background?” I just felt so much better — so much more vitality. Some of these chronic problems I’ve had all my life like cold hands, cold feet — that’s all gone. Tight shoulders, tight back, tight neck — that’s all gone.

A lot of these little things that I just thought were normal are gone. In the end, I felt like we got to better health than we ever had, and it educated us a lot by necessity about diet, gut, how to live, and how to detox. I think those are essential tools these days. If you want to shine your light as brightly as you can in this world, you have to take care of your health and body.

At the end of all these, I realized that a lot of the things we did and a lot of things we learned were nowhere to be found. They were things we had tried or discovered, or trial and error, and maybe offbeat things. I thought if I had all this information five to seven years ago, I could have saved myself hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of my life and years of my children’s lives. That’s worth a lot. That’s huge.

My husband also said we need to disseminate this information, get it out there so it can help people like us, people who are looking for improved health. So the question then became, “What’s the best way to do it?” I’m not interested in becoming a health practitioner; neither is my husband. So we just put up a website with basically all the information organized as well as I could on all these topics.

It’s completely free. There are no pop-ups. I’m not trying to sell you anything. I don’t make any money. There is a ‘donate’ button. My husband and I committed to put this website up and fund it for five years. Beyond that, we figured if people donate in, we’ll keep it up longer or depending on how things go. If people donate enough money, I could do some little studies or little scientific research that’s more up our alley than becoming a health practitioner.

Everything on the site is completely free. One of the gifts of it is that we’re not trying to sell anything. I have no loyalties to anybody. I’m sure I have offended almost everybody who clicks at the site on one topic or another. But at the end of the day, I respect other people’s opinion, and this is the information that we went through and helped us, and so that’s what we put out there.


[00:23:39] Ashley James: Awesome. That’s so great. I know my listeners are going to go to your website and donate to support your cause as they read through your website and find that it is helping. The website is You’re the perfect person to put that website together, between you and your husband being MIT-trained scientists and engineers. You have that methodical, logical mindset and it shows on your website. I think that’s wonderful.

I know that everyone right now is thinking to themselves, “Where do I start?” You mentioned some symptoms that people think are genetic or normal, like “My hands are cold. My feet are cold. My shoulders are always tight,” or sleep issues, gut issues, emotional/mental issues, and the list goes on. Little things, little symptoms they’ve had for many years that they might not have a diagnosis, but they have a bunch of symptoms. They’re not truly happy with their health, and they don’t know where to start because there are a million parasite concepts out there. There are a million supplements out there. They don’t know whether their problems are dental, detoxing, methylation, or epigenetic. Where does someone start when they have a host of symptoms, and what they’re looking for is supporting the body at the root level and the body’s ability to come back in the balance?


[00:25:10] Susan Luschas: That’s a tough one because we didn’t know where to start. We were shooting in the dark. One practitioner says metals, and another practitioner says gut. We’re shooting all over the place in the dark.

I think a great starting place though, in general, without hearing specifics of what the symptoms are, is just back to basics which is lifestyle issues — sleep, diet, stress relief or whatever you do to de-stress. The other thing would be if you’re in a toxic situation. For instance, I worked for years in a lab where lead was soldered, and it was not ventilated. If you have some work hazard environment like that, if you’re in a toxic situation, detox is part of that, too.

For some of us, we got a lot of heavy metals, maybe passed down from our mom who maybe had a lot of fillings, anything like that. Today our air isn’t really clean anymore. Our water is not clean anymore — our environment. Detox is always a good one to start with.

We are so socialized at every event, it feels like, that it pretty much transcends to a sugar event. Anything at school, work, or whatever, these events turn into sugar events. The sugar addiction thing is a real issue. My personal opinion is that sugar is one of the most addictive drugs out there, and it’s legal. It’s really hard to get off it. You go through classic cocaine addiction withdrawal symptoms. People get shaky. They get sweaty. They spend a day in bed. Our family definitely went through that. My oldest child, she went through a couple of days of full-blown autism when we finally got all the sugars out of her diet.

Diet — organic, vegetables, meat. Our family is not a fan of any grains or sugar, so we tend to eat more of paleo or keto. Now we’re to the point where we can eat a little bit of rice or a little bit of whatever. If we’re at someone’s house for dinner with meat, vegetables, and rice, we’ll have a little bit. It’s a special treat, but to this day these still aren’t things that we have in our house or that we cook at home. We still cook a lot of our food. We spend a lot of time cooking. My children are now twelve and nine, and they make one meal a week, which is great for them to learn about these things. Eat a good diet. That may not be exactly our diet for everybody, but clean it up basically.

Sleep — we all need sleep. We need uninterrupted sleep, with no lights. I am personally a fan of going to bed when it’s dark and wake up when the sun comes out. I think that’s naturally what our bodies were meant to do, but you’ve got to prioritize sleep.

Stress relief — there’s so much information coming at us these days. There are a thousand text messages, a thousand emails. There are a thousand things to do somehow. Technology has done amazing things for our lifestyle, but on the other hand, somehow many of us have gotten busier and distracted with more things to do. How you manage stress is a big challenge for all of us.

I can tell you what our family does. Maybe some people have kids, and they’re interested in what the kids do as well. Personally, I like to exercise. I didn’t list it as one of the lifestyle things because for me it goes under stress. I exercise every day. I do think it’s important. Everyone should be exercising every day for twenty minutes. It may be high-intensity aerobics. It may be walking. Whatever it is, I think exercise is really important.

The other thing I do for stress is I meditate every day. Not everybody is into meditation, but I think it’s worth trying. You don’t necessarily have to sit and act like a monk. You can walk in nature and focus on your breath. That’s another way to meditate.

For stress relief, some people maybe go out with friends or plan a vacation or something like that. These are all great ideas. For my kids, we learned how to breathe deep, how to calm our emotions. My kids and I chant and sing. Sometimes singing can help. We also do yoga.

The other thing we do to relieve stress is that we go to services on Sunday. I didn’t think about religion as necessarily relieving stress, but for some people, it really can — a connection to something greater than themselves, and a reminder of their life purpose, that their life is to shine as brightly as possible. Sometimes religion can help people.

To disclose because I’m pretty straightforward, our family goes to a yoga and meditation temple — it’s Kriya Yoga. They have scriptures and sort of a normal Sunday service. At the center temple, the kids learn how to calm themselves down, how to breathe, how to see things from a different perspective, how to take a step back.

Detox– I think that’s important in everyday life these days. The main things our family does for detox are probably sauna therapy and enemas. We still do enemas, not so much anymore for parasites but more for detox. The sauna is sweat therapy, so you can get some of that if you’re exercising. There are lots of other things for detox. Yoga can help get things moving. Lymph massage — there’s the chiropractic or osteopathic piece of it. There are all kinds of ways to detox.

Supplements — sometimes your body needs different supplements.

That’s a general place to start — start with the basics of lifestyle. Once you’ve got those dialed in, see how you’re feeling. That may clear it up for many people. I think leading a cleaner lifestyle, for some people it can allow their immune system to function better and fight whatever infections that they may have be they dental, parasites, or dealing with heavy metals or the wrong bacteria in the gut. A lot of times, if you clean up your lifestyle, your immune system can function better, and you can fight off some of those other things better.


[00:33:19] Ashley James: Yeah, that’s something that I keep hearing. Scott Forsgren shared that, and Dr. Klinghardt and many others who’ve been on the show have shared that if the body was like a fish tank and it is sick — it’s got green goop all over it, the weird algae — it’s just an unhealthy, anaerobic tank full of bad bacteria. The fish in the tank will suffer. But if you clean a tank, and now you’ve got crystal clear tank, you can even see there’s water in it because it’s so clear, and there are good, healthy bacteria in there and it’s fully oxygenated, then the fish are going to thrive.

That’s the same with our body. When the body is toxic, the parasites live. It’s like a parasite hotel. Whereas when you make the whole body so healthy through all the things you’ve just talked about, then it becomes inhospitable to these co-infections and parasites. It makes it so those who are fighting all these Lyme co-infections, parasites, or gut dysbiosis, it makes it harder for the bad stuff to live here in the body, and it makes it easier for the good stuff, the good bacteria to thrive.

It makes so much sense. You weren’t majorly sick your whole life, but you had those symptoms. And then you had that new Lyme diagnosis, so you weren’t a chronic Lyme person suffering for years luckily. Through working on the foundations of your health, you felt even better than you ever had before. I love that. I think that’s so cool. I definitely want to get into talking about hidden dental infections and detox a bit more.

But first, I have some questions about your story. After you removed that one cup of grains a week and you had completely removed fruit, so the only thing she was eating was a low-carbohydrate diet with meat, healthy fats, and vegetables, how did you know that while she was rocking there and holding herself, full-blown autism, that she needed to continue? Of course, the knee-jerk reaction, as your husband had, is the same thing I would do. I’d go, “No, this is wrong. Oh, my gosh, we’re going in the wrong direction.” How do you know it was the right direction and you need to help her through it to the other side?


[00:35:49] Susan Luschas: Good question. I had heard in all of my research and looking online, reading, following people like Klinghardt and Scott once we got the Lyme diagnosis. I read through most of their stuff at some point in time. Not that I remember all of it, but I read through so many things about the topic of Lyme, specifically autism and things like that.

I knew she had some autistic symptoms before she went fully autistic, but it’s like, “Yeah, she has some autistic symptoms.” But most kids do these days. When she went fully autistic, it’s like, “Okay, this is full autism.” But I had heard that a lot of times autistic kids have to get worse before they get better. That wasn’t a new concept. I don’t have a specific reference for it off the top of my head. I have to search around for it, but I can remember reading that and hearing that a few different places or a few different people saying that. Now, the question is, how do you find the guts to do it?

I had read that before, and I had the mommy intuition or just the gut feeling that the right thing to do was push through. Between those two, in your head, you have to lose the fear. I am generally pretty fearless. If you look at the website, you’d be like, “Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe she did that to her five-year-old.” But at some point, getting better was so important for my child and me.

But like I said if some practitioner had told me, “Stand on your head. Do a headstand for five hours a day,” I probably would have tried it. I just really wanted us to be better so that we could be the best people we could be in the world. My husband was against it, but I said, “Then you drive her to the institution.” He said, “No, I’m not going to drive her to the institution.” “Well, then, this is what we’re doing,” because I had kind of taken over as a primary care provider. I had taken some time off work. I had to because of my health but also to work on her health. I was the primary care provider and called the shots.

It was a combination of having heard of it before, having that gut intuition, and just being a little fearless. Her MD pediatrician told me before — not to rag on her right now, but she has a practice in the area with a year-long waiting list, like your kid will be eighteen before you get into this person’s practice. She told me that I would kill the child by taking out fruits and grains because the child won’t get enough sugar. My child was already on the failure to thrive diagnosis, below the growth chart.

She told me already we can’t do that. There’s no way. And I said to her, “Okay. But then what can I do?” because I had already everything she said years ago. She said, “You could try this homeopathic remedy,” and I’m like, “We did that three years ago or five years ago, remember?”

It’s funny because now she recommends this to a lot of people. It’s cool though. To her credit, she has learned, and she’s seen it not just with us, but with other people. She recommends this and is now writing blog posts in this direction, which is very cool. But I think, sometimes in life, life deals us crises and uncomfortable situations. Sometimes there is some nastiness, but we have to calm ourselves down, take a deep breath, live our lives, and go for our intuition and our knowledge.

I’m not saying anything anybody says on the internet you should try at home. You should think about it yourself. You should research it. Things like that are what I did. But at the end of the day, I had to go with my thinking and thoughts and think for myself, which is something a lot of people don’t do when it concerns their health. They don’t think for themselves. They want a practitioner to tell them X.

The problem is, in some topics, like chelation is a fantastic one. You can go to all these MDs who’ve been practicing chelation for ten, twenty, some of them thirty years, and ask them, “How do you chelate lead or mercury out of the body?” In my case, it was more of lead. They’ll all give you a completely different answer. Some of them will say oral DMSA. Some of them will say you need IV DMPS once a week. They’re all over the spectrum. They don’t know what’s the answer. We don’t really know how to chelate the body.

They know they’ve done some things in the past and it’s worked for some people, but you start to realize that a lot of these practitioners, they may be one small piece of the puzzle. But I have yet to find the practitioner who has all the pieces of the puzzle and understands each piece. I think that’s where we have to take over our health, find all these pieces, and figure out how they piece together.


[00:41:38] Ashley James: Yes, I love it. I love that you said, consider the doctors and experts on your team as though they’re your team. Don’t put them on a pedestal. You hired them. They’re your employees, and you’re the CEO of your health. If we have that mindset, we can fire and hire the right doctors for us that are going to inform us, and we definitely want to get second and third opinions because I don’t want to be a guinea pig. I don’t want to go to one doctor, whether it’s a naturopath or an allopathic practitioner and be told to go on one protocol to find out that they’re guessing based on someone else’s experience or based on some study where some people, for a small percentage, had results. I want to know what works, the one that works all the time, and I want to know why. We need to advocate for ourselves and be willing to step up and go to more than one practitioner to find the answers.

It’s really interesting, the experience you went through. Now, your daughter, is she on the spectrum? Is she autistic?


[00:42:53] Susan Luschas: My answer is no. I do not see any autistic symptoms in her on a daily basis. Occasionally, maybe once a year, I’ll be like, “Hmm, she’s acting a little funny or a little moody. Maybe we should hit an enema. Maybe we should test.” We do muscle testing now at home all the time like a lot. What I’ll do is I’ll pull up the enema bucket. I’ll be like, “How is she testing? Does she need an enema? How is she testing on the sauna? Does she need to go to the sauna? How is she testing on some supplements?” Activated charcoal is a go-to for her.

For example, I’ll pull out a bunch of things and start testing, but I’m not sure if that’s really moody. Now, she’s 12, so she’s going on puberty. So the answer is, no. As far as I know, there are no autistic symptoms. In the school, they have no knowledge of any of this, and I kind of keep it that way. She has no special tracking or anything. They think she’s a completely normal kid. Not to brag about that child, but she is at the top of her class academically, and she plays lots of sports and has lots of friends. To be honest, I can’t even keep up with her schedule half the time. Thank god, she has a bike and now can bike herself to practice and friend’s house and whatever.

She’s living a pretty healthy normal American life. She eats. She’s on the growth chart. I’m not a huge person myself. So I think on the growth chart, she’s been following around 25-30%. My second child is following about 50%. That’s just how she’s built; she’s built a little differently, I don’t know. But I’m happy with 25-30%. I’m still 25-30% myself because I’m not a big person, and she’s 12. So I would say no, she’s got no more autistic symptoms.

It’s interesting because her kindergarten teacher moved to a different state. Her kindergarten teacher no longer has the ability to influence anything regarding her schooling, so I told her, “She had a full autism diagnosis. According to her pediatrician, she is diagnosed with autism, and she always will be because we can’t cure autism.” If you ask her pediatrician, she’ll be like, “Yes, of course. She’s on the spectrum because she always will be.”

I told her kindergarten teacher, “You know, she had a full autism diagnosis,” and she just looked at me and she goes, “No, she didn’t.” That was pretty cool because, in kindergarten, she was still going through a lot of things. She was able to start kindergarten on time, but even at kindergarten, she was still going through parasites and still detoxing, chelation, and learning to sweat again. She was still going through all that in kindergarten, but the kindergarten teacher said, “No, I don’t think she was autistic at all. I don’t know what you’re talking about.”


[00:46:15] Ashley James: This is the biggest paradigm shift that people could go through that is like coming out of The Matrix for help. Almost everyone has watched the movie The Matrix where Neo takes the red pill and all of a sudden he wakes up in a totally different world, and he realized his entire life he’s been living in a pod, and he’s been hooked up to a digital computer. What he thought was real was actually computer.

This experience, if we were to imagine ourselves being pulled out of the matrix or paradigm of the mainstream health care and pretend for a moment, suspend disbelief, suspend your belief system and go, “Autism doesn’t exist. There’s a world in which it doesn’t exist,” and yet the symptoms exist. Imagine no one has ever invented the word ‘autism.’ No one has ever diagnosed it as a disease. What we see is a bunch of children, more and more in the last thirty years, with symptoms, and the doctors have not created a box called disease to label it.

The symptoms are our guide to supporting the child to go towards health, and when the symptoms get worse chronically, we know that there’s something wrong — there’s something we’re doing wrong in diet, in detox, in methylation. Something is going on, and when we support the child, and ultimately they get better, the symptoms are our guide.

Back when I was in school when I was a kid, it was like one in 10,000 was diagnosed as autistic. Now, it’s one in 40 children, almost one kid for every classroom in the United States, and there’s a spectrum. Unfortunately, you get some diagnosis, and the doctors can tell you, “Your kid is going to be that way his whole life. Let’s get him on drugs now.”

And then we stopped. We shut down. We stopped searching for answers. We stopped searching to help them, and we keep bringing them to McDonald’s and Burger King. We keep going to 7/11 giving them Slurpees. We keep injecting them with things, giving them pills, and letting them eat pizza. We have a disconnect between what goes in their body is either healing them or harming them, and because we’ve been told they are ADHD, autistic or whatever label, they’re just baked into the cake, we cannot change it. You can’t change it, therefore, why would you even try to look for answers?

We’re set up in a world in which we’re told to be dumb and not search for answers. But if we can suspend our disbelief and imagine that there’s a world where diseases don’t exist — any disease — labels don’t exist, but symptoms. Symptoms are the truth. I can’t give you a barrel of diabetes. It’s a label that we’ve used so that we can medicate.

But if we look at symptoms and go, “How can I support the body to come back into balance?” Forget that there’s disease, but look at symptoms and support the body, then we can begin to take action. I want to get people so motivated and get their mindset in a place where they realize that even though their doctors told them they’re going to be sick for the rest of their lives, there are actions they can take.

Anything a doctor says that makes you not want to keep seeking answers has been the wrong thing. They’ve told you the wrong thing. You want always to seek the answers. You want always to get information. You want always to look to support the body. I love that what you’re showing us today is another powerful example that the body demonstrates illness and out of balance through symptoms, and it can be neurological, behavioral, emotional or mental. But the physical is demonstrating illness through all these different symptoms, and the more we support, the more it’s going to come back in the balance.

When I had Dr. Klinghardt on the show, he shared that there are thousands of kids he has helped in the last forty years, who were diagnosed with full-blown autism and now they do not have autism. I nearly fell off my chair. Absolutely — because now what we’re seeing is basically a misdiagnosis. There’s a bunch of sick children whose bodies are toxic. They’re unable to detox. They have heavy metals. They’re not methylating correctly. Parasites — you name it. We’re feeding them junk, and when you do that to a child, those symptoms are going to demonstrate. And then we give them a diagnosis so that we can feel like there’s no hope. But again, if we pull back this idea that there’s a diagnosis, and instead go after the symptoms, then we can help them. Then we can take action.

That’s my biggest passion is to shift us to a space feeling helpless to feeling empowered.

Why did you choose to cut out grains and fruits? What was it doing to your daughter’s body? Were the grains and fruits feeding an infection? Were they feeding the parasite? Were they causing inflammation? Were they inhibiting her ability to detox? What was it about grains and fruit that was so disruptive to her health?


[00:52:26] Susan Luschas: That answer is very easy, and it’s I don’t know. I can tell you what I think based on hindsight as a little bit 20/20, or it’s not necessarily 20/20 — I have a guess or a theory based on my experience. Again, I don’t sell anything, so I’m not biased towards any product or anything like that. One of the things we were monitoring at that time was her stool test — microbiology and yeast stool test. We also did through normal labs. You could do Doctor’s Data. There are other companies besides Doctor’s Data. There is Rocky Mountain or whatever they’re called now and some others.

We’ve been monitoring her stool test through these various companies over the years. There’s always some dysbiotic bacteria. No one in our family ever had yeast because we just never ate enough sugar to begin with. We never ate dessert anyway. We never went to McDonald’s anyway. We weren’t that kind of family. It’s amazing that we could have such serious gut problems when we never ate that badly anyway.

We’ve been monitoring stool tests over time. Of course, being a scientist, I want to plot these things versus time on an X and Y axis. She definitely always had some dysbiotic bacteria in there. Sometimes it would be the same ones coming up over and over. Sometimes a new one would come up.

Of course, on these tests, there are thousands, if not millions of other bacteria that we don’t even know how to test for, that are important in digestion and for our immune system. So after the grains and the fruit, my theory is that taking those out of her diet radically shifted the balance of the bacteria in the gut. It may not be just bacteria. It may also be yeasty things. Even though we never tested on yeast, it doesn’t mean we don’t have it. There are beneficial forms of yeast. It could be some viral things that were going on in her gut as well.

I am personally of the opinion that if you have some dysbiotic bacteria, let’s say E. coli — it’s actually a normal flora for us as humans, but it can become dysbiotic, and certain strains of it are more dysbiotic than others. You’re probably not going ever to get rid of that completely. You’ll get to the point where it won’t show up on a stool test. But if you go back to your old lifestyle habits, it will probably come back on your stool test, which has been my experience. I’m not of the opinion that we necessarily get rid of these dysbiotic bacteria or these nasty things in our gut, but we can radically shift the balance by the food we eat.

I’m not a huge fan of probiotics, while I’m on the topic. We’ve tried so many over the years. If you dig deep enough in the website, there’s an article about which probiotic is best. I actually have a table of the probiotics and what I think they’re best for, like killing your gut or stomach flu, digestion, or whatever.

I’m not a huge fan of any of them in terms of healing your gut or shifting the balance. I think most of the probiotics we take, we just come out the other end. Personally, I think you have to get doses in several billions to even try to do anything. But I think the better way to shift the balance in the gut is through diet. The one exception to that is there is a probiotic for E. coli specifically that I think can be very useful for those people out there who do have dysbiotic E. coli. Other than that, I’m not a huge fan of the probiotics.


[00:57:02] Ashley James: Are you a fan of fermented foods to help with the gut culture?


[00:57:08] Susan Luschas: Yes and no. Our family makes our ferments. We have a humungous crock-pot, so big the kids can play hide and seek in it. We don’t make sauerkraut from less than twenty head bunches. I’m just thinking, right now at the house, we have red kraut with ginger, green kraut with garlic and dill, and we have pickles. We make our ferments, and we always have, and we always had fermented foods, but we were still sick. So the answer is no, I don’t think fermented foods are going to radically change some of these very serious infections and issues.

On the other hand, if you’ve never eaten fermented foods, I think it’s something we should all be doing every day anyway, just in that general health category. We should all be eating fermented foods at every meal. I’m not even perfect about it. At least one meal per day has fermented foods in our house, usually two, sometimes I get the third.


[00:58:25] Ashley James: When someone has severe dysbiosis, obviously cutting out the sugar, potentially cutting out grains, eating fermented foods as a staple anyway for basic health, but then would you say that feeding the healthy gut bacteria through vegetables — is that your solution? In that case, are you looking more to taking supplements and herbs to restore the balance?


[00:58:58] Susan Luschas: You mean like how do I feed the good guys?


[00:59:02] Ashley James: Feed the good guys, starve the bad guys — yeah.


[00:59:06] Susan Luschas: That’s the hard part. When you’re doing something — for example, a 30-day fast like I did with the oldest child twice — naturally, everything is going to go down. But in general, the dysbiotic guys, in my opinion, tend to feed more on sugar than the good guys. The good guys are a little more able to extract sugar from vegetables than the bad guys are. The bad guys usually tend to get dysbiotic because of excessive sugar.

Back to what my pediatrician said, “You can’t take that out of her diet. She’s not going to get enough sugar.” There is sugar in vegetables, believe it or not. Broccoli today is not the broccoli that I grew up with, unfortunately. We’ve sort of engineered but not genetically, but we have selected our vegetables more and more over time based on what tastes good, and what tastes good to most people is usually the sweeter ones.

I’m of the opinion that we do get quite a bit of sugar even just from vegetables, and that is enough for the good guys, believe it or not. Our family does occasionally now eat some vegetables like sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes have a lot of sugar in them. We don’t often eat sweet potatoes, but we can eat those, and we do eat them once every couple of months or something. It’s not a staple for us. It’s kind of like someone said, or it was in some research somewhere that the fruit of today is like the candy bars our grandmas ate in terms of sugar. We just selected these things to be more and more sweet, less and less nutritious.

One thing our family does — we’re lucky we have a garden, not a huge one. We do grow quite a bit of our food. I would love to grow 100%. We’re not there, but maybe someday and we’ll keep striving for it.

[01:01:19] Ashley James: Very cool. I found a documentary just a year ago. It’s a free documentary on YouTube called Back to Eden Gardening, and it teaches people how to garden even in the desert. It’s using a type of mulch that preserves the moisture of the soil, so you do very little watering. You do very little weeding, and it remineralizes the soil through the mulch.

This man — his story is fascinating — just like you, for free, teaches people how to garden. It’s called Back to Eden Gardening. I recommend people watch it on YouTube. Even if someone just has a few square feet of a back yard or front yard, they can turn it into something that can grow them some kale, zucchini, or fresh herbs to get started.

Last year, because we have 5 acres to work with, I convinced my husband. He wanted to do 10 x 10, and I convinced him through a lot of coercion to do 25-foot-by-50-foot garden, which is a huge endeavor for our first garden ever. I was learning. I think I planted everything too deep, but what did take was the massive amount of zucchinis and squash, which took over the whole garden because I had no idea how big these things get.

Last summer, that’s all we did. We eat zucchini that we grew ourselves — giant zucchini steaks. I figured out a hundred new ways to make zucchini, and of course, everyone that came to our house walked away with an entire grocery bag full of zucchini. But it is so rewarding and so much fun to grow your own food. You know where it came from. It’s fresh. It’s so delicious that you don’t need to add any seasoning to it or cover it with anything unhealthy like cheese or whatever people put on vegetables if they don’t taste good.

We would sometimes sit out in the garden, eat it straight out of the garden. It’s amazing what happens when you gain contact back with the soil. You have that access to freshly grown food. We forget what real food tastes like until we have that first experience. I absolutely agree with you. That is something to do for decreasing stress, a great family activity, and great for health as well.

The first time you did the enemas with your children, what was in the enemas? Is it just water? Is it a coffee enema? The first enema you did that had worms come out that convinced your children this was viable.


[01:04:14] Susan Luschas: We just did a Fleet enema from the drug store because I didn’t know how it was going to go. I got a Fleet enema from the drug store and did it on myself first. With a kid, especially a young kid, the little one at that time we did it was three-ish. I think she was about three or four; it’s somewhat a bit of a blur. But I did it on myself first, and then I said, “Okay, kids, we’re going to do this.” I wrote a whole article on my website. If you’re interested in the topic, definitely read the article because I had to bribe the children.

I don’t bribe my children. But this was one of the issues where I had to bribe the children. It turns out that we don’t watch TV. We don’t have TV service or anything like that. So I bribed them with being able to watch TV.

How do you watch TV if you don’t have a TV service or TV? I got a portable DVD player, and I checked out some Little House on the Prairie episodes from the library. It was one of those mommy win-win moments, where I get to do my enema, and they get to watch this wonderful programming of Little House on the Prairie which talks about values and ethics, and they’re getting social-emotional learning. If they started crying or creating a fuss with the enema, I turn the movie off, so they stopped. Once they stopped and were ready to cooperate again, we turn it back on. We only had to turn it off about twice the first time, and then they got the feeling, “Oh, yeah, we really want to watch TV because everybody watches TV.” So I had something very easy to bribe my children with.

I just had the Fleet enema because I’m like, “Okay, let’s see how it goes.” No one recommends doing an enema on a three-year-old — “You’re gonna kill them.” But luckily, Kerri Rivera had done it on her young children as well, and she had posted some instructions and some tips and things like that. That gave me, at least, one level of confidence that someone else had done it on a young child.

It turns out, that was one of the best things I ever did for the children. The three-year-old, the enema was already over, and the movie was over. We sat in the bathroom getting her ready for bed, and we’re brushing teeth and what-not. She just said, “Mommy, that enema was great. We have to do it again.” I said, “Why?” She said, “Because the worm just came from my head and it came out of my body.” That’s what she told me at age three, and I was like, “Whoa!” She was on the toilet when we were having this conversation. She got up from the toilet, and there was a baseball-sized tapeworm out of this three-year-old. I could not believe it.

I started losing my blood pressure. I started fainting. I just had to pick myself up literally off the floor because I couldn’t believe it. I shot some pictures of that particular worm. So my experience generally with the enemas is they’re fantastic for all people that have worm-type parasites especially. Do it a week before the full moon if your symptoms flare with the full moon. If they’re flaring with the new moon, do it a week before the new moon or a few days before the moon, somewhere in there. Hopefully, you’re going to get quite a few out with the enemas. That’s just absolutely fantastic. Hopefully, that’s enough that you feel better and you just live your life and enjoy life.

For some of us who’ve had parasite infections for a long time and they become systemic, they’re not just in the digestive tract. There are other places in our body. That’s when you want to think about parasite medications, in my opinion, but enemas are actually fantastic.


[01:08:28] Ashley James: Were your daughters constipated before or did they have totally normal bowel movements? I can’t wrap my brain around just a regular pharmacy-bought Fleet enema. Why would that have caused worms to come out? Why is that different than just going poo if they don’t have any constipation?


[01:08:49] Susan Luschas: My kids never really had any constipation. They were pooping a couple of times a day usually — sometimes once a day, sometimes two or three times a day. They never had constipation issues that I was aware of. I am not a poop digger, so it’s possible that they had worms in their poop, and I never saw it. Some moms or dads fish out the poop and go through it. I have never done that, looking for worms or whatever. I don’t tend to go in after they go to the bathroom and look at their poo, and no one has ever said to me, “Mommy, what’s that in my poo?” So it’s 100% possible worms were coming out of their poo, and I just never noticed it, but who knows?

In my opinion, it’s just saline water basically and it just literally washed them right out. What they do is grip on to the walls of the digestive tract. There are all kinds of worms out there, but most worms tend to come into the digestive tract, slightly before the full moon to mate and meet each other, and then they go back to potentially being systemic in other parts of the body. If you hit them with an enema around that time, when they’re just literally sucking and holding on to the walls of the digestive tract, sometimes you can break some of them loose, and they’ll flush out. Especially when you have hundreds of them, then it’s usually easy to flush out a couple so that you can see them.


[01:10:30] Ashley James: The Fleet enema is only in the rectum and part of the colon. It’s not going into the whole colon, is it?


[01:10:38] Susan Luschas: It depends on how much water you do for the size of the person. I forget what the number is, but I think the digestive tract of kids at age five to eight or something like that is 80% of what it is in adults. They have as long of a digestive tract as we do to the first order. It’s not as physically big, but it’s almost as long, not significantly shorter. So it depends on how much water you do for the size of the person. The Fleet enema from the drug store has instructions on it. Initially, I followed that, and then I realized, that’s not enough. We need to do more volume.

As for the topic of Fleet enema versus coffee enema versus whatever other kind of enema, it depends on what you’re trying to do. I’m of the opinion that, for example, if you think you have worms, I don’t think it matters. It’s just about the volume of water to flush a couple of them out so you can see them. I think for worms — anything. It doesn’t matter what you put in it.

If you have, for example, an autistic child and you’re trying to get them to detox quickly, like my child who went fully autistic, personally I would muscle test the child first and see what would work the best. But without the ability to muscle test, I would hit him with activated charcoal and the enema. That tends to work very well for autistic children to get an immediate detox. We’ve even done minerals in the enema. We’ve done probiotics in the enema. We’ve done homeopathic remedies and drainage remedies in the enemas. It just depends on what we’re working on and what we’re doing.


[01:12:42] Ashley James: For those who don’t know, because people are thinking, “You’re just putting it up your butt and then releasing it into the toilet. Why are you putting all these things in it?” That’s because the skin is so thin there that we absorb it quickly and there’s a vein that goes right to the liver. The quickest way to deliver some nutrients to the liver is through the rectum. I have felt that. I have done coffee enemas.

Coffee enemas are not Starbucks coffee that you put up there. It’s a blond blend. You want it to be organic. You don’t make it strong. It’s not drinking coffee. It’s totally different. But when you do a proper coffee enema, it delivers that caffeine to the liver, which forces the liver to increase the amount of antioxidant that it makes.

It does a bunch of other things too, but it’s cool that it stimulates the liver to go in overdrive and do a lot more detoxing. Those who are in chronic pain sometimes feel hours of relief from doing a coffee enema because it causes the liver to ramp up its efforts to make more antioxidants. There are all kinds of good things, but you’re right — we need to think about what we’re here to solve.

If it’s something as simple as we want to see if we could flush out some worms, that’s one thing. But we can use it to deliver some nutrients to the body as well. It’s an interesting topic — the idea of doing it.

Our son is turning four this week, and if I had to, I think I could talk him into it, but it will be a very interesting conversation. But when a child is sick, they’re willing to do anything if they believe it’s going to make them feel better. Your daughter immediately started to feel better. That’s amazing. It’s so exciting.


[01:14:45] Susan Luschas: Yeah. We even went to who can get out the biggest worm contest. So you can make it fun — who can get out the biggest worm and who can get out the most worms, who can get out the fattest worms, and who can get out the worms where you can see all the organs inside.


[01:15:06] Ashley James: Kids are more fascinated than grossed out at that point, and then when they start to feel better, then it’s like, “Whoa, this is working. Let’s keep doing it.”

Now, you also mentioned that your daughter had lost the ability to sweat. Can we talk about that? I do know some adults that have lost the ability to sweat, and I think that’s quite fascinating to learn. Why do people lose the ability to sweat, and how can they get it back?


[01:15:38] Susan Luschas: I’m not an expert on any of these topics, but I can tell you our experience with losing the ability to sweat. I think the Lyme Borrelia went after her hypothalamus. I think that’s what happened in her case. I don’t know other people who’ve lost the ability to sweat. I’m not sure if that’s the case for them or not. Personally, if someone comes and says, “I’ve lost the ability to sweat,” I would say, “Just get a Lyme test.” It would be good to know.

If you’re feeling great, you don’t have to do anything about it. But you may want that information just to double check that. We didn’t know what to do to get her to start sweating again, and no practitioner had answers to get her sweating again. We tried all kinds of things over the years. What finally worked in her case were two things: forced sweating in the sauna, which was incredibly painful.

For someone who doesn’t sweat, to go in the sauna is torture in many ways, so this was another case where I got out the DVD player and the episodes of Little House on the Prairie, and I bribed her to sit in the sauna. When she was watching the TV in the sauna, she lost track of how horrible she was feeling and how she was almost passed out right in the face, which is a scary thing for a child. But we could always bring her out and put her in a nice bath if we had to, but we were trying to push the limits of what she could sweat. Slowly, over time, time being many months, she finally started to sweat. We would go into sauna until she either passed out initially or gave us one drop of sweat — literally one drop, and it’s like, “Okay, that’s enough.” And then the next time, it was like, “Can you give us two drops before you go out?”

We just worked up, and now we still go in the sauna as part of our healthy lifestyle routine. She sweats almost like a normal person now. Now, she’ll start sweating at the same time the rest of us do and sweats about the same amount, which is super. And now we stay in there for 30 minutes at 125-130.

This is also challenging with the child because you can’t just take them to the gym. What you want to do as an adult is to be cheap about it and go to the gym, go in their sauna, try it out, see how you do with it and how you like it, get used to it before you potentially buy a home one. But with children, you can’t do that. When we were at Simon Yu in Saint Louis, he has a sauna that he’ll let children try out, so we were able to try it out a little bit there, and then decide, “What do we want to get for our home use to help her start sweating?”

Number one was forced sweating in the sauna, and it was incredibly painful. But we finally got there over many months.

The other thing though that she needed with the sauna at the same time was a hypothalamus supplement. It was the one from Bio-Design, I think. It’s a hypothalamus supplement that she needed at the same time. She took two of those twice a day for a couple of years. It’s desiccated hypothalamus supplement from Bio-Design, and she took two capsules twice a day for two years.


[01:19:23] Ashley James: Is that an herbal supplement?


[01:19:25] Susan Luschas: It’s desiccated hypothalamus — I think it’s bovine. I’m not sure what it is about that supplement. If you’ll ask me, “Why that? Is it actually the nutrients in the hypothalamus?” I don’t know. It could be energetic. I don’t know why, but that’s the thing that she needed along with the sauna. The homeopathic remedy was helpful too, but the two essential things were the sauna and the desiccated hypothalamus supplement. Again, I don’t get any money from that endorsement at all.


[01:20:06] Ashley James: For sure. Why did sauna therapy work for your daughter?


[01:20:09] Susan Luschas: Good question. I don’t know is my constant answer. It’s just like anything else — it’s practice. Just kind of like baseball, you got to practice hitting the ball with the bat, and you’re going to get better. I think it’s just practice of pushing her body to the point where it should be sweating and getting her body, “I should be sweating, but my hypothalamus isn’t working right or whatever.” Just keep pushing. In a way, I almost think of it as an allergy shot. They give allergy shots so that you get used to whatever the allergen is and potentially your allergy goes away. I’m not a fan of allergy shots, but I kind of think of it as somewhat the same theory.


[01:20:58] Ashley James: It does make sense. You’re trying to force the body to sweat. With her, in her condition, you wanted to help her detox. Sweating is supposed to be one of the gentlest and effective ways to get rid of fats or toxins. That’s the body’s way of getting rid of toxins through the sweat glands. When you’re not sweating, your body is not detoxing, so something is going on.

Were there concerns that she was not methylating? Were there concerns that her liver was not going through both stages of detox? Were there other areas you’re looking to see where she wasn’t detoxing?


[01:21:43] Susan Luschas: Let me go back for a minute to the sweating. I wasn’t smart enough back then to understand what you just said about sweating being so important to detoxing. I was doing it so she could play soccer because she would get red in the face and collapse at the soccer games. That’s the major problem. You can’t play soccer if you’re passed out. I was doing it for different reasons. I didn’t fully realize that.

Yes, we went through all these other detox things like methylation. She has mutations, as do our whole family has various methylation mutations, as do most people out there have them. We had gone through methylation. She tends to be a Methyl-Guard Plus by Thorne person. There are tons of methylation supplements out there. We’ve tried almost all of them, it feels like, maybe not, but we’ve tried quite a few.

Initially, she needed that support of Methyl-Guard Plus. She needed one capsule twice a day usually. Now, she hardly ever takes the Methyl-Guard Plus. She doesn’t need it very much anymore. The question is why. I’m not sure. I think it’s just her body is functioning in a much better place with improved lifestyle, being that she sweats now, she has a better diet, things like that.

I think from her sister, the little sister, the tongue tie was a huge part of the methylation puzzle for her. The little sister also needed methylation support, but after she got her first frenectomy. She didn’t need as many methylation supplements anymore, so if someone is dependent on methylation supplements, in my experience, the two places to look would be clean up the rest of your lifestyle, meaning things we already talked about.

The second place to look would be frenectomy or frenulum. It’s this flap of skin that connects your tongue to the lower jaw too tight. Another thing you could look at related to that without having a frenectomy is some kind of an osteopathic treatment, and a lot of times the osteopath could give you an opinion on whether they think that’s too tight or not.


[01:24:14] Ashley James: I’m a little confused about the chicken or the egg. Are you saying that when someone has a frenectomy, and they had their frenulum cut so that it’s stretched out more, that after that they don’t need as much methylation support?


[01:24:29] Susan Luschas: Right. That’s been our experience.


[01:24:35] Ashley James: I’m kind of like in “mind being blown land” — my son needed to have a frenectomy. When he was seven days old, his naturopathic pediatrician did a little surgery and cut his frenulum, and then he could suckle. In doing a little bit of reading deeper into this and a little bit of research, I discovered that there’s a hypothesis that it’s a mild deficiency of folate in utero that is causing the tongue ties and the lip ties, much like a large deficiency would cause spina bifida. And so they’re thinking a mild form in the mother, and I have methylation issues on 50% of both branches for the MTHFR. It was interesting to think that.

I was saying that because of methylation issues, they needed a tongue tie. Their body, in utero, didn’t develop correctly in a minor birth defect sort of way. And you’re saying that when it’s corrected, something happens to the body that makes them able to methylate better?


[01:26:05] Susan Luschas: Yes. I don’t know if it’s true for everybody. I can say it is true for us. If you go to my website and you click on the methylation tab, there’s one reference — Ben Lynch ND. He wrote an article, “The Intersection of Tongue Tie & MTHFR.” I am so glad he wrote that because I found that article after I noticed that after the frenectomy — so we had the frenectomy not because we thought it would improve our methylation. This is all hindsight.

We had the frenectomy for other reasons, and by the way, I’ll mention, both my kids suckled just fine and breastfed for eighteen months. It was never an issue with breastfeeding. We only did this as older children. I noticed myself because, of course, I don’t do anything on my kids without doing it myself, so I got a frenectomy as well.


[01:27:15] Ashley James: Really?


[01:27:16] Susan Luschas: Yeah. I didn’t do it first. I did it at the same time as the younger child. I felt a huge improvement after that frenectomy.


[01:27:31] Ashley James: That is fascinating. I’m like mind-blown. There’s part of Kriya Yoga where you are to stretch the frenulum. Do you know about that part of Kriya Yoga?


[01:27:40] Susan Luschas: Yeah.


[01:27:44] Ashley James: I’m wondering if there’s a meridian that is at that base of the tongue that is related to the liver or methylation, detox, or something. It would be interesting to talk to an acupuncturist and see if there’s something there — an energetic channel.

If we’re coming at it logically, if we’re coming at it very Western thinking, this doesn’t make sense. It’s the methylation problem that probably caused the tongue tie, so why is it that reversing a tongue tie would then affect — like changing something physical in the body affects something biochemical? In a Western mind, it would go, “That doesn’t compute.” But of course, we’re looking at it, this world of health, from a much broader perspective.

We don’t know all the answers, but let’s dive in and see. Here you are finding that it did work. You found relief through having the frenulum stretched or cut, and so did your children. Is this part of the dental procedures? You talked about hidden dental infections and some dental procedures that you had done that made a difference? Was that around the same time?


[01:29:08] Susan Luschas: We did those within a few years of each other. These aren’t really infections. This is just the structural issue, as you mentioned, of the frenulum being too tight.

The other thing I noticed when I did do the frenectomy in myself is that my posture was straighter, so I felt like I didn’t need to go to the chiropractor as often, and I have this naturally straighter posture now. It almost felt like, afterward, I learned how to walk again because I was feeling so different.

The other part I was going to mention as you were talking about the structural connection to the biochemistry, another thing we do for detox is chiropractic treatments. My kids go to the chiropractor or the osteopath. We switch between the two different practitioners, actually switch between four different practitioners because they all have different strengths.

I think chiropractic is part of detox or osteopathic. I think this topic of the methylation and the tongue tie and the connection between the two, this is new science. I don’t think we’ve figured this out yet at all. The only reference I could find on it was a blog post that Ben Lynch wrote. I just haven’t been able to find any other real science about it. But I can say observationally, with both of my children, after the frenectomy they were less dependent on their methylation supplement. That was not true for me, but I was never dependent on the methylation supplement. I never needed to take it every day as they did.

[01:30:50] Ashley James: Fascinating. Oh, my gosh. My mind is blown. I’m so excited to dive deeper into this. That’s really interesting. Can you touch on the importance of smoking out hidden dental infections and how to treat them? This is such a hugely important topic. Hidden dental infections can cause abscesses in the brain, heart disease, just a long list of problems that you wouldn’t think would start in the mouth.


[01:31:30] Susan Luschas: Exactly as you said, these dental infections can cause symptoms anywhere in the body. You’re talking about acupuncture meridians. Each tooth is on a meridian on the meridian chart. Depending on which tooth is infected, that can affect your lungs, liver, kidneys, and all kinds of things.

Most people, the hidden dental infections would be either a socket from an extracted tooth, a root canal, or an implant. All three of those could be the source or the location of the hidden dental infection. In my case, I had wisdom tooth sockets that hadn’t been extracted when I was sixteen years old. Those were all four infected. I had no root canals. My husband had a root canal, and his root canal was infected. My husband had his root canal pulled, and immediately noticed improved chiropractic in his back. He said he felt like his back just got completely re-adjusted, and again he also said he almost felt like he had to learn to walk again because it was so different. He also had less brain fog after it was removed.

From my cavitation surgery — when you go into an extracted tooth socket, it’s called cavitation surgery — I just felt like my shoulders dropped, my neck relaxed. That was also in a different chiropractic situation.

The other big thing for me was, I got rid of the ringing in my ears. I’ve had ringing in my ears as long as I can remember, apparently since I was 16. Finally, after the surgery, my ears are quiet. So cool.

The tricky part of this is none of us like to lose our teeth if we’re losing the root canal. Going into a wisdom tooth socket, dental surgery is uncomfortable and unpleasant — period. There’s no way to sugar-coat that at all, as far as I’m concerned. It is very difficult to get to the point that you decide to make that decision to do it, but the benefits of it can be truly amazing, really life-changing.

Not for everybody — I have cases where people have the cavitation surgery or have a root canal pulled, and they’re like, “I feel the same.” It depends on the person, the symptoms, and whether that’s bothering them or not. I think a lot of us with Lyme though do have to address the dental infections again because we need the immune system not to be fighting with dental infection but rather to be fighting the Lyme, and it also gives one last place for the Lyme to hide in our bodies.


[01:34:39] Ashley James: How would someone know if they have a hidden dental infection?


[01:34:45] Susan Luschas: That’s part of the problem of it. There’s no great way. One thing you can Google or you can go on my website is the tooth/organ chart. It’s like an acupuncture meridian chart with the teeth on it. You go to the tooth/organ chart, and then you look up the teeth that you have that are either extracted, implants, or root canals. Hopefully, that’s not every tooth. Hopefully, you just got one or two teeth in those three categories. And then you look down at that meridian, and you see on the chart, “What’s bothering me?”

In my case, for example, I had the wisdom teeth. The wisdom teeth is inner ear if you click on the chart or Google tooth/organ meridian chart. Surprise, surprise, my ringing went away. Who knew? Shoulder/elbow — like I said, my shoulder has dropped. Some spinal segments here — C8, T1, T5, T6, T7 if you tend to have discomfort; S1, S2, S3, if you tend to be needing adjustments in those a lot; organs are heart, duodenum. I didn’t notice any problems with my heart or duodenum before or after, but those aren’t really organs you notice. Just go down the meridian on the chart for those teeth, that will give you one clue.

The other thing my family does is muscle testing. If you have a practitioner who muscle-tests, or if you muscle-test yourself, even better. Sometimes you can see a hidden dental infection. You can’t see if it’s infected, but you could see maybe a pocket, for example, of an extracted tooth. Mostly, I’m talking about x-rays for extracted teeth. You can sometimes see that they left in the periodontal membrane when they extracted the tooth, and sometimes you can see that membrane and a pocket where the infection could live. There’s an example of that on my website if you click on ‘Dental’ and you scroll down. There’s an example of my x-ray, and I circled the pockets so you can see on the x-ray what I’m thinking about. That tells me I have pockets.

It doesn’t necessarily tell me I’m infected there, but it’s a clue. The symptoms on the meridian on the chart are one clue; the x-ray may be another clue; muscle testing may be another clue; and then the other way is you can fly to St. Louis and Simon Yu is still practicing, bless his heart. He is diagnosing them as well. He uses acupuncture meridian assessment. He has an electronic machine that measures acupuncture meridians, and that’s how he diagnoses them.


[01:37:42] Ashley James: Oh, my gosh. That is so cool. I am a little bit in shock right now. I had my wisdom teeth taken out years ago. I wish I had kept them in hindsight. For the last few months, I’ve had like 1 in 10 discomfort. There’s a sensation in my left lower jaw, right where the socket is, where the tooth used to be.

On the same side, I’m having hearing problems. I’ve been having chronic ear infections. I’ve been using mullein oil, warmed up onion muffs, or cold/hot compresses — all kinds of stuff to help. I kept blaming it on the fact that I do sleep a lot on my left side. I was thinking maybe it was my pillow, so I replaced my pillow to one that breathes more. I wear studio headphones all day long. I’ve been taking them off of my left ear because I thought maybe it’s my ears being constrained too much. But I didn’t think that it could be a possible problem with the wisdom tooth socket to my ear. That’s pretty interesting.


[01:39:05] Susan Luschas: I want to give also one caution about this. There’s a diagnostic part figuring out, “I think I have an infection in my root canal or my wisdom tooth socket.” Then there’s the how-to-fix-it part. Unfortunately, this is not an easy topic. Again, go into my website because there’s not much other information out there. I wrote an article about cavitation surgery and also root canal surgery, and on that, there’s a PDF file.

If you do not have the surgery with the one practitioner that I recommend — I hate to be a snob like that, but I only have one practitioner that I recommend because he’s the only one consistently getting good results — then print out this PDF file and at least take it with you to your dentist, oral surgeon, or whoever you’re having do this. At least take it with you and say, “There’s a checklist. Do you do this?” because this dental surgery can kill you. It’s a very serious thing. I went septic after my first time because my practitioner made tons of mistakes. You could argue my body didn’t heal it, but he also made quite a few mistakes. Hindsight is always 20-20, so I had it redone. I have had it a second time.

I also know lots of people have had this cavitation surgery or root canal pull or whatever, and they’ve gotten worse, or the infection hasn’t gone away. It is an art to find a practitioner who can do this right. We have people flying to see the one practitioner that I recommend. We have people flying to see him, and I think if you have the money, that’s the right thing to do because he’s the only that I’m trusting and recommending at this point. I do get lots of emails, calls, and what-not from people who have gotten to other practitioners. I just am not seeing the same kind of results from other practitioners. Finding the right practitioner for this is also not trivial.


[01:41:19] Ashley James: What’s his name?


[01:41:21] Susan Luschas: His name is Robert Jarvis. He works out of Santa Rosa, California, which is not too far away from where I live, it just so happens. But he’s the only one that I am recommending at this time. He actually retired, and then some other people and I got him to come back. He still is practicing, and he has just been doing this forever, and he’s really good at it.

The other thing is, I hate to say this, but I think the energy of the practitioner also matters, having someone who cares about the patient and you feel cared for. He is professional, caring, and all of that. I’m just going to give his phone number because he does try to hide them sometimes. His phone number is 415-924-6551. He practices out of Marine Dental Wellness right now. He is semi-retired, but I think he’s still practicing three days a week last I checked.


[01:42:37] Ashley James: That’s amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. I have a friend who’s a doctor here in Washington. She went to her holistic dentist, and soon after developed an abscess in her brain that left her blind, and she had to get major brain surgery, almost died. Now, she’s not blind anymore, but when she’s under stress, she goes blind. That’s pretty scary. She went back to the dentist and talked to him about it, not in like “You did this to me,” but, “Hey, soon after you did this work, I developed a brain abscess and almost died.” He got very angry at her and very defensive. It’s scary.


[01:43:25] Susan Luschas: It is scary. That’s why I took some time to emphasize that point, that these dental procedures can be very scary. Personally, I think we have a few people doing them that don’t know what they’re doing. That’s why I published this PDF checklist, print it out, take it with you, go through the list with your dentist or your oral surgeon before you have it. Show it to them, give them a copy; I don’t care. They can send me all kinds of nasty grams or whatever — I get them all the time.


But the good news is, because of this checklist, we have had a few practitioners improve their procedures. That’s what this is intended to do. I’m putting myself out there, my family is putting ourselves out there, and we’re hoping to help people get better, and also to help some of these practitioners improve their procedures. I know the practitioner who made some mistakes on me because I’ve heard from other people that he’s definitely not doing some of those things anymore. That’s a huge win. We’re all learning. We’re all in this together. But if you want to maximize your chance of getting it right the first time, I would go with Dr. Jarvis and do it now before the man does retire.


[01:44:45] Ashley James: I wish you would start teaching more doctors.


[01:44:48] Susan Luschas: I know! I’ve been working on that with him. I’ve had numerous conversations with him about that. If anybody is still listening out there and goes to see him, please tell him the same thing. If enough of us tell him, he usually does it.


[01:45:06] Ashley James: Could this be something that someone could film him teaching and then disseminate the information to dentists, or is it really hands-on, something that they need to be there in person? Film him teaching everything and just put it up on YouTube and get it out there for enough dentists to start to learn or people to bring to their dentists. That’s one thing to think about.

I think you saw much. This has been a wealth of information. I really want to have you back on the show. You are welcome any time you want a platform to share information.

You did mention that you have a list of things that your kids do themselves now as their own routines for helping maintain their health and relieve stress. Can you share some of the things that your kids do on their own?


[01:46:10] Susan Luschas: The biggest thing that comes to mind there is social. I have a social tab on my website which is funny because now there’s social media. But back when I started doing this, that wasn’t as prevalent.

One of the big things my kids do is social acceptance or social strength. In other words, when other kids are eating junk at lunchtime, every day they sit next to kids who eat all kinds of junk at lunchtime, that’s a huge challenge for them. And birthday parties — they always get picked up after the first hour, so they don’t have to be around the food. It’s a huge challenge to build that social and emotional strength to be healthy and to still feel mentally supported and okay and accepted at school. I think that’s challenging, and that’s something that they do every day.

How do they do that? We talk about it a lot at home. We eat dinner and breakfast together every day as a family. We talk about it. We talk about how the kids are starting to notice that certain kids can’t behave or don’t do well in school and look at their lunch box. They’re starting to notice some of those connections themselves, so we’d talk about that and support it at home. Some of the other things the kids do are that I always tell them now that they’re older, they’re 9 and 12, they need to tell me when they’re not feeling well. Sometimes, they’ll come up and say, “Mama, I need an enema.” I’ll be like, “Why?” They’ll be like, “I don’t know. I just need one.”

Sometimes you have to follow that inner intuition or inner knowing that we all have, but a lot of times, it gets stifled by culture, by other people imposing views or inability to hear our voice. I’ve also had them come up to me and say, “Mom, I need some activated charcoal.” So kind of being in touch with their voice.

I think some of this go back to religion and Kriya Yoga, and some of these meditation, yoga, and self-awareness, social/emotional learning tools. A lot of schools don’t teach social-emotional learning, but our school luckily has a couple of programs. One is called Recess 101, and the other one is called Schnitzel Shop. I want to plug both those programs that are getting into schools right now that teach kids how to be different, how to think for themselves.

That’s more the main thing that comes to mind. But on the physical, practical level, my kids make one meal a week. My kids work in the garden. We still do enemas and sauna. They go to bed at a reasonable time. My 12-year-old complains about going to bed every night at 7:30, but on the other hand, I think she recognizes that that enables her to make every sports team that she wants to and be at the top of her class without studying. It’s just those basic things. I think she’s starting to make the connection between those healthy lifestyle routines. The kids will also sometimes come, and they’ll be like, “Mom, I’m tired. I need to go to bed even though it’s not 7:30.”

Those are some of the things that they do, and then there are some things we “force” them to do, like take some supplements if they need them, or if we’re working on chelation, it’s a constant topic that we work on, and then we take a break, and then we work on it.

Another thing they do is they stuff their pillboxes, and we do that as a family. When we were doing the parasite medications, we even compounded our medications at home. The kids would help, which is kind of maybe crazy, but once you get into the parasite world, it might not sound so crazy anymore.

I think, also in the topic of kids and health, chores are important in general to build self-esteem and self-confidence. That’s what you really need to have a healthy kid. You need them to have the self-esteem and the self-confidence to be different because healthy, unfortunately, especially in public schools these days, is different.


[01:50:52] Ashley James: Very well said. Sounds like they’re listening to their bodies and advocating for themselves, and you’re setting them up for success later in life. Those are lessons that we as adults are still learning. That’s brilliant. We didn’t even get to dive into chelation. I’d love to have you back on and do a whole another exploration around chelation, heavy metals, and detox. We’d love to have you back. Thank you so much. This has been ‘enlifting’ — enlightening and uplifting.

Your website is Of course, I’m going to create a discussion in the Learntruehealth Facebook group, so those who aren’t there yet, please go to or search Learn True Health in Facebook, join the group, and join us in the discussion around this episode as we continue to bring up things that we love about this episode and things that we’re still learning and uncovering from your website. I’m sure there will be lots of comments from the listeners as we learn more from resources.

Thank you for putting it together. I’m a big fan of your mission. We’re definitely kindred spirits in that regard. I am grateful for what you do. Thank you. I’ll make sure that I donate to your cause as well, and I invite the listeners, if they found value in everything you’re sharing and also website, to please donate anything that helps. It does cost money to host websites and continue to be the owner of a domain. Like you said, if you raise enough money, you will put even more effort into the website and compile data from studies and bring us more resources that are unbiased. That is beneficial for all of us, so thank you so much.


[01:52:55] Susan Luschas: Thank you for having me. It’s been fun to talk to you, and thank you for what you’re doing with this podcast.


[01:53:02] Ashley James: Absolutely. All right, let’s have you back on the show. I’d love to continue this discussion.


[01:53:06] Susan Luschas: Sounds great.


[01:53:07] Ashley James: Are you into optimizing your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to, and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That’s Be sure to ask about free shipping at our awesome referral program.

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Brad Yates and Ashley James

Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) expert Brad Yates describes how tapping relieves stress and cultivates a healthy flow of energy. He teaches the importance of emotional hygiene — tap daily, feel better, think clearly, and make true health choices. Exciting bonus, he guides us through a live tapping session!

[00:00:03] Ashley James: Hello, true health-seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I am thrilled to have you learn from Brad Yates today. I love his technique. In today’s interview, he had me do it, and he has you follow along and experience this type of acupressure that you see instant results with.

It’s really funny because as I was following along with his instructions, I’m tapping on the different acupressure points, and I wasn’t noticing while he was doing it. But then by the time we were done, I felt drunk. I was so calm and relaxed. It was really interesting how quickly it lowers cortisol.

In fact, he talks about some studies that prove using this technique significantly lowers stress hormones. He’s going to be coming to some major cities live and teaching his daylong class.

As you listen to this interview today, if you think yourself, “Man, I love to join Ashley and do Brad’s live event,” it’s called “Tap into Your Best Self.” He teaches you all the techniques to take EFT into your daily life to decrease stress and stop cravings. He has a technique that completely has you stop craving, allows you to lower anxiety, increase happiness, and increase productivity. He has 800 different videos on YouTube using this technique in different ways in your life to enhance and enrich your life. You get to learn all about it in person with him.

He’s coming to Austin, Texas, Saturday, June 8. You can go to to get tickets to June 8th’s “Tap Into Your Best Self” class.

For Las Vegas, it’s Sunday, June 9th, from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. You can go to

For Atlanta, Georgia, he’s going to be there Saturday, June 22nd, from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Go to to sign up there.

He’ll be in Philly on June 23rd. Go to learntruehealth/philadelphia.

I know you’re going to love today’s interview. Please share with those that you know would love a powerful technique to help them get better sleep, focus more, better energy, decreased stress, and increase the feelings of joy and happiness in their life and an overall sense of awesomeness. I think all of our friends could use that, so definitely share this episode with your friends.

 Have a fantastic day and enjoy today’s interview.

[00:03:43] Today is going to be so much fun. We have with us Brad Yates. He is an expert in emotional freedom technique. If you’ve never tapped yourself into better health or a better mood, then you are in for quite a ride.

EFT is very interesting if you’ve never experienced this. I’m looking forward to those who’ve never experienced EFT to hear what Brad has to say and to follow some of his wonderful tools. He is going to guide us through some techniques.

For those who have experienced EFT, you’re going to appreciate how Brad teaches it today.

Welcome to the show.


[ 00:04:25] Brad Yates: My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on.


[ 00:04:28] Ashley James: Absolutely. You came highly recommended. One of our avid listeners, Naomi, told me that I absolutely had to have you on the show. You were coming to Seattle to teach a class here locally, but you also teach all around the world. Online, you have teleseminars, and you teach in person as well. We’re going to discuss how people can learn from you later in the show, but first I’d love to get into your story. I am curious, how did you become an expert in emotional freedom technique?


[ 00:05:02] Brad Yates: How does a grown man find himself tapping on his face for a living?


[ 00:05:06] Ashley James: Right, exactly.


[ 00:05:08] Brad Yates: Well, I knew from a young age that that’s what I was going to do — hardly. I was a professional actor. I got a degree in theater. I had traveled around the world doing children’s theater, and then I moved to Hollywood to become a movie star, you know, as one does.

While there, I met a woman, fell in love, and got married. When our first child was on the way, I was thinking, “Maybe I should have a back-up career, too?” Rather than finding the normal, steady kind of job, I trained to become a hypnotherapist because I’ve always been fascinated by the power of the mind.

I started doing that and fell in love with it. It was great transitioning from being an actor into being a hypnotherapist because I had a trained actor’s voice. That was really helpful. For a change, when my audience fell asleep, that was actually a good thing. So I enjoyed that, too.

I was still pursuing my career as an actor while building a practice as a hypnotherapist. After a couple of years, when our second child was on the way, it really hit me that this is the career that I was meant to have, doing personal development work. As much as I loved acting, this was much more fulfilling. It just felt like a better use of my gifts and talents.

We made the decision to leave Los Angeles and move to northern California. In that process, through some other hypnotherapists that I had gone to know online, I kept hearing about this tapping process. There was this energy psychology conference going on in Las Vegas, and I really ought to go check it out.

So I went and I took a one-day training with Gary Craig, the founder of Emotional Freedom Techniques or EFT. It was fascinating. This process of tapping on your face, which admittedly looks a little strange to people when they haven’t seen it before, looks a little odd. But having come from my acting background and one of the things I’ve done as an actor was I had gone through Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Clown College, at this point, tapping was not the strangest thing I’d ever have to do. I was a little more open-minded than some people might otherwise be doing this tapping.

What sold me on the tapping process was he passed out Hershey’s Kisses to everybody and said, “On a scale of 0 to 10, how much would you like this chocolate right now.” I was an 8 or 9 because I was a bit of a chocoholic. Then we did some tapping on chocolate cravings, and after a couple of moments of tapping, I could not eat the chocolate. I had as much interest in it as I did in the foil wrapper. I didn’t eat chocolates for two years after that. Just no desire whatsoever.

I was thinking, “Hmm, this is very interesting. There’s something to this process.” When I came home from that conference, I started experimenting with hypnotherapy clients. At the end of the first session that I tried, I said, “We’ve got a few minutes left. I just want to try this simple little technique,” and did the tapping. Little by little, it became my main modality. I still use a bit of hypnosis in a lot of my sessions, but tapping became my main modality because it’s so simple to use.

It quite literally puts the power in the person’s own hands. They have the power at their fingertips so that wherever they might be, they’re able to use this technique. So I started building my career as a tapper.

Right around this time or shortly afterward, YouTube happened. I thought, “Wouldn’t it be cool if there was a tapping video that people could use to start their day? I’ll call it Tap of the Morning.” It was the only video I ever intended to create. I put it up, and then about six months later, I had an idea, “There really ought to be a video to end the day, and I’ll call it Tap of the Evening, and now I’m done.” And then a few months later, I had another idea, and then another idea, and now it’s been a decade and I have over 800 videos on YouTube. So here I am.


[ 00:10:01] Ashley James: Very cool. I have to ask you to teach us the chocolate tap. Can you do that?


[ 00:10:09] Brad Yates: Yeah, and it’s very much the same as any other tapping protocol. Tapping or emotional freedom technique is originally based on acupuncture. For thousands of years in Chinese medicine they’ve said there is this flow of energy through the body along these pathways called meridians. When this energy is flowing naturally, we experience our natural state of health and well-being physically and emotionally.

When this energy gets disrupted in some ways, then we don’t feel so good. We have discomfort, stress, anxiety, fear — things like that. So by stimulating the same kind of points that would be used in acupuncture, we cultivate that healthy flow of energy. We start to feel better. When we feel better, we think better, and we make better choices.

We also have modern research. You mentioned that you’ve spoken with Dawson Church. Dawson had done a research study where they measured people’s cortisol levels. Cortisol is one of the stress hormones. They did a double-blind study. The group that did the tapping, their cortisol levels dropped by an average of 24 percent, which was so remarkable. The lab technicians throughout the first batch, saying something had to go wrong because that couldn’t be possible, ran it again and found, “Oh, wow, that really did happen.” It is that effective as a stress relief.

When we look at the fact that we make most of our choices at an emotional level, especially when we’re not feeling so good, we look for “What will make me feel better? What has traditionally made me feel better? What do I associate with happiness?” Chocolate, ice cream, cake — all associated with parties. Besides the sweetness level, there is all these emotional stuff around sweets.

As we tap, we clear out whatever stress we might be experiencing that’s telling us to go and make a questionable choice from a health perspective and try to take care of ourselves. And then we look at it and say, “That’s not something I want to put in my body right now.”


[ 00:12:34] Ashley James: Very cool. It doesn’t just have to be chocolate, but when we have that craving, or we feel like we’re moving towards using food to comfort us, then you can use the tapping to decrease the stress, so then we’re not going to be using food to soothe us.


[ 00:12:57] Brad Yates: Right. We’re no longer using it as a drug, and we’re able to say, “What do I want that’s healthy for my body?”


[ 00:13:05] Ashley James: My concern with EFT — and maybe this is my misconception — is that people are not having a conscious experience of their unconscious resolution. They’re tapping and they’re feeling better, but what if there are stuff at the unconscious level that they need to process and learn from and move through? Does EFT allow for that?


[ 00:13:32] Brad Yates: Yes, I think that EFT allows for more than a lot of other processes, which is why it can be so beneficial in conjunction with talk therapy. I always look at it as a complementary therapy rather than an alternative therapy. But the reason that we so often don’t see that unconscious stuff that’s bothering us is because it doesn’t feel safe. Part of us says, “Don’t go looking at that.” We have a stress response that tells us to look away.

One of the analogies I love is, a couple of years ago, we got my wife a new car. We went all out and got the car with all the bells and whistles — literally, like all the chimes. It has this chime that when you cross a lane on the freeway, a chime goes off unless you’ve used your turn signal. It’s letting you know you’re crossing the line that you weren’t maybe supposed to. So if you’re drowsy and you’re weaving, it’s letting you know that.

We have that internally as well. We have this line around our comfort zone, and when we start to cross that line, a chime goes off. We have a stress response. Something says, “Warning! Stop!” and tries to course-correct us and keep us back in our comfort zone. When we go looking for those things that are uncomfortable, it tries to stop us.

So many of those things that those lines are defined by are things that have happened in the past. If we have an incident where someone has mistreated us, we will make a decision about ourselves based on that — like, “Oh, I just don’t deserve nice things,” or “People are always going to be mean to me,” or “I’m not good enough.” That memory, that belief is going to get stuck in there and create that line to keep us safe in our lane.

It’s not going to want us to know what’s there. It’s like, “No, you don’t have to worry about what’s going on here. You stay in your lane. Don’t worry about all that other stuff.” We have a stress response when we go looking for that, and so we often avoid those places where the healing could happen.

With the tapping, we’re clearing that stress response. We relax, and we’re able to say, “No, I’m okay. I can take a look at this. I can go up in the attic and start looking through the boxes to find out what might be creating the problem.”

I believe it creates more of an opening. Now there are times when we don’t have to, and when I’m working with clients, I’ll often use the wording, “I’m allowing myself to see whatever I need to see and clearing whatever I don’t need to see.” Like taking the trash out from your kitchen — you have your trashcan in the kitchen, you put stuff in there, and at the end of the week, you tie up the bag, you take it, and you throw it in the garbage.

You don’t have to open the bag up and go back and reexamine, and it’s like, “Here’s the milk carton I finished yesterday, and there’s the egg carton from three days ago. I don’t know what that is. Maybe I should figure out what that is before I can throw it away.” We tie up the bag and throw it, and we know that it’s gone. Very often, it happens like that.

The tapping — it’s peeling the layers of the onion, so we’re able to see what we need to see. Sometimes we’re able to clear something, and we know that we have that freedom because we’re able to cross that line without the chime going off anymore.

[ 00:17:05] Ashley James: That makes a lot of sense because it’s not the day to day or the week to week stressors like, “That person cut me off,” or “Someone didn’t put their shopping cart away.” The little things that might set us off because when we have an accumulation of many small negative events, and we haven’t figured out how to deal with stress on a day-to-day basis, then it can add up.

We don’t need to sit there and emotionally process why that person not putting their shopping cart away made us so angry because really what it is is an accumulation over time of the garbage that we’re not dealing with and the stress level was getting higher and higher. But then also, every time something little happens that makes us angry, we’re lighting up that Gestalt neurologically inside us of all the major events that we haven’t resolved yet.

We need to take out the trash. We don’t have to examine the trash, the little day-to-day things, but we want to get to a safe place where we can examine the underlying root of the major issues that we’re still holding on to — the sadness, the anger, the fear delimiting decisions. Those major past events that are unconscious, tapping allows us to clear out so much of the junk so that we can feel safe enough to process those events to release them as well.


[ 00:18:43] Brad Yates: Right. So if there’s something at the bottom of the trashcan that is stuck in there and has been rotting, in general sometimes we’ll focus on the simple, little things in the trashcan and go, “I can look at this. It’s probably this that smells.” I believe that tapping allows us to fill more confident and feel safer to go and say, “What’s really in there? What do I need to deal with here?”

As you said, it does build up. That’s the thing. That’s why I always recommend to folks, tap on a daily basis. Make it part of your energy hygiene. We have physical hygiene, and most of us wouldn’t go more than a day or two without taking a shower or brushing our teeth because we don’t wait until the people around us are holding their noses and saying, “Hey, dude. Take care of that.” We do it as a maintenance thing to make sure that the filth and grime don’t build up.

But stress, most of us have no way of dealing with that on an effective level. We may have ways of masking it, whatever our drug of choice might be — chocolate, alcohol, reality TV. People of all kinds have different ways of trying to mask it, “so I don’t have to look at what might be bothering me.” Tapping is a great way to re-mediate that stuff just like taking a daily shower or brushing our teeth.


[ 00:20:13] Ashley James: I love that you said energy hygiene. I’m also imagining that this is emotional hygiene as well.


[ 00:20:19] Brad Yates: Sometimes I say that as well. It’s almost interchangeable in many ways because how we experience energy is that people say, “You know what emotion is — it’s energy in motion.”


[ 00:20:33] Ashley James: When I interviewed Dawson Church, he talked about how there are studies now showing that using EFT is incredibly effective at addressing post-traumatic stress to the point where it’s now starting to be implemented with vets.

Something that’s in my mind, I think it was today or yesterday, a teenager shot herself to death in Florida in a high school. Just thinking about the suicide rates in our teens, which is out of control — it’s unacceptable. One death is unacceptable, but now it’s almost like a common occurrence to hear this violent acts that are happening in our teens. We don’t have anything set up in our education system to teach emotional intelligence or emotional hygiene to our youth.

Can you talk about your experience with EFT, since you’re a father, in working with children and teens?


[ 00:21:40] Brad Yates: Yeah. Dawson has done great work in speaking with the VA and getting them to see the benefits of tapping for PTSD. I have another friend of mine, Dr. Laura Laden, who went to Parkland in Florida after the school shooting to work with people and also in Sandy Hook in Connecticut to deal with the trauma. She’s also worked with genocide survivors in Rwanda and using the tapping to clear the stress from that.

The thing is that we don’t have these tools. Stress relief tools are not taught to children. There are starting to be more schools that are introducing mindfulness, and that’s great. Several years back I kept working with clients, and as we were tapping and peeling layers of the onion, so many of the issues that were troubling them were rooted in childhood events.

I thought, “I got to do something here to introduce tapping to kids so that they can learn how to deal with that day.” Something unfortunate happens, they clear that day rather than having that lane change chime, keeping them in a very narrow lane for the rest of their lives. So I started to write a book called the Wizard’s Wish about a wizard who discovers tapping, and they shot some videos with my daughter, so I have a brief series of videos for children for tapping.

I have a new book called “Garden of Emotions” that has QR codes throughout the book that take folks to tapping videos for kids on how to have a great day, how to have a positive attitude and all kinds of things like that.

There is a lot of effort right now to get tapping into more schools. I have a friend, Dr. Peta Stapleton in Australia, who is a university professor of psychology. She has a program called Tapping in the Classroom. This is a program for teaching teachers how to introduce tapping into their classrooms to deal with stuff. The cool thing is the country of Slovenia has paid for their teachers to go through this program. It’s like, “Okay, US. If Slovenia can do it…”


[00:24:14] Ashley James: Right? Oh, my gosh. What are the results? Have the children in Slovenia improved? Statistically, has there been a noticeable difference?


[00:24:28] Brad Yates: That I don’t know. I have to check in with Peta and find out if they’ve done any research in follow-up in Slovenia. Apparently, the government in Slovenia was impressed enough with the research that Peta had done in the schools in Australia working with test anxiety because there’s a place where kids get all stressed out, and nothing is teaching them how to deal with that stress.

There’s also nothing teaching them to deal with the stress they might be feeling in their lives anyway. You have a child who maybe that morning their parents had a huge fight. They come in, and they’re expected to take a test and they’re going to be graded on their knowledge based on how they do that day, which may have been the worst day they’ve ever had because there’s nothing to help them be in the right state of mind for the most beneficial learning environment.

There are numerous studies now with all kinds of benefits from it. But absolutely, being able to introduce this to kids so that, if you get to teach it young enough, then long before they get to high school, they already have coping mechanisms that can help them deal with so much of the stuff that comes up by at school. We say, “Wow, high school. Someone that young is feeling drawn to hurt himself in that way.”

Or even in lesser ways — all kinds of different traumatic things that kids do themselves. But even at that young age, they’ve already gone through years of traumatic events maybe. And so often, without any acknowledgment of it, and parents do the best they can based on their limited programming, a kid might be going through something tough and the parent will say, “Just walk it off,” or “Don’t talk about it.”

The stories of children who have been molested. They try to tell their parent, but because it’s some other family member, it’s like, “No, you can’t talk about that.” It just has to go inside eating away at the person.

As we build these resources, we’re dealing with that stress with the tapping and not just talking about it, having that mind-body approach and dealing with the physical things that go on with trauma, which can be so effective.


[00:27:13] Ashley James: Absolutely. Stress alone can create ulcers and can epigenetically trigger dormant diseases like autoimmune conditions. There’s a big link. I believe the statistic was like 70-something percent of those with fibromyalgia have had more than three adverse childhood events. You look at those who are morbidly obese and more than not they will talk about the trauma they experience ongoingly as a child.

We’re using food, , and substances that might not be healthy to cope with the day-to-day emotional stress of growing up, and then our parents not having the resources. So this, we can stop. We can stop that vicious cycle that’s getting passed down from generation to generation because the parents can learn to tap, the children can learn to tap, and they can learn how to pause.

You can unpack it and explain there are so many reasons why EFT works. The first reason that I like is that it’s a break state. We’re stopping, and we’re just doing a little bit of an internal check. We’re breathing, and it’s just that slight pause in between the stressor and allowing it to bottle up inside and eat us alive, and that pause is so helpful.

And then, of course, you mentioned that you were tapping on meridians, these energy centers in the body. Can you go deeper and talk about maybe your favorite aspects of why EFT is so interesting?


[00:29:02] Brad Yates: So many things. So much of it is fascinating. One of the catchphrases with EFT is “Try it on everything — whatever is bothering you.” As you said, stress is so prevalent. There are those who will say that stress is at the root of at least 95% of our issues. It’s either the cause of our issues, physical and/or emotional, or at least it worsens it. There may be things that there is an actual physical component that’s not based on emotional stress, but feeling stressed about it makes the problem even worse.

Sometimes, when I’m tapping with somebody who has some physical condition, I was like, “I’m not going to say we’re going to cure cancer or whatever issue it might be — physical issue. But if we can lower the stress about that, lower the different emotional pains that might be coming with that guilt, sadness, anger. The body has such powerful natural healing abilities that as we free up our emotional resources from that stress, that gives us a better ability to heal.


[00:30:32] Ashley James: That’s a great point. Even if it only did one thing — because it does a bunch of things. Even if it only decreases stress in the moment, how incredibly powerful is that. So many of us haven’t been taught because our parents didn’t know and our grandparents didn’t know. We haven’t been taught techniques for how to deal with stuff in the moment without reacting.

Think about road rage, for example. It’s just a bunch of babies with cars reacting. We’re just over-reacting to each other. It’s incredibly unhealthy. Especially with social media, we see all these bullyings, and it’s just reaction, reaction, reaction. We read something and immediately we’ll spew out hateful things. There’s no emotional intelligence, that pause between the feedback whatever the input and then how we choose to react to it. We’re just like babies.


[00:31:26] Brad Yates: Yeah, we’re triggered emotionally, and we go into fight or flight, which made a lot of sense a hundred of thousands years ago when there were actual life-threatening situations. But our mind still responds the same way. Someone looks at us cross-eyed and we go, “What?” and we go into that thing. When we go into that fight or flight, our prefrontal cortex goes offline. All of our creative, clever thinking, bye-bye.

Then we do something reactive, and then someone else gets triggered, especially with social media, as you said. There’s so much of it and so many of the things that are put out there are triggering. So many of them are meant to be triggering. There are people who want you to be triggered because the more triggered you are, the less clearly you think. The less clearly you think, the easier you are to control. There’s a method to that madness.

Tapping is a great technique to use when you’re driving and someone cuts you off. We feel like there’s a personal threat. It means we attach meaning to all these things — “Oh, that person cut me off. They think they’re better than I am. They think that I don’t deserve to be able to drive where I’m at.”

No, they didn’t think that at all. They didn’t even see you. They’re probably completely unaware of your existence, and they may be rushing to the hospital because a loved one has just been admitted. You have no idea what’s going on for them, but we create these meanings that are stressful to us. EFT works to reduce stress, that’s why it’s so effective with so many things.

I was introducing this to someone years ago, I think it was in Stanford University. I was talking about doing a workshop there, and they were put off. They said, “Yeah, it sounds like a panacea. It just cures everything.” I was like, “No, I’m not saying it cures everything. It helps deal with the stress, but since stress is involved in almost everything, that’s why it’s so beneficial with all these different things.” But it’s not looking at it as some magic bullet that we can understand.

We’re still figuring out the exact mechanism, but we do see that the stress was reduced. In fact, there are more different physiological markers they’re finding — an improvement in gene expression, lowered cortisol, various other things that they’re seeing with groups doing the tapping. With all of those different benefit, it just makes sense to do this if you can get over the fact that it looks a little strange at first.


[00:34:41] Ashley James: How similar or different is it to acupuncture or acupressure? Acupuncture and acupressure use meridians of the body, and they create similar results in that they lower cortisol and stress levels, but you have to go to an acupuncturist. In the middle of your exam, when you’re stressed out or at night with your choco craving, you can’t get up and go to your acupuncturist. It’s utilizing meridians of the body. Is it similar or is it totally different?


[00:35:13] Brad Yates: It is a form of acupressure, the difference between, as in one of the catchphrases, “it’s emotional acupuncture without the needle.” Certainly, some acupuncturists have their own needles. They can apply to themselves on their own, but most of us wouldn’t want to. Most of us should not be applying needles to ourselves. To have this tool literally at your fingertips wherever you are is amazing.

What I also love about it is that it’s so simple. When I do the tapping, it’s a very creative and intuitive process for me. I say all kinds of things. It’s an exploratory process of looking for what might be the underlying issues here, what could be at the root of this. But the tapping on its own, even without any words, will help us relax.

It’s something you could immediately start doing. As you’ve said, if you’re feeling stressed about a test, you can’t suddenly go to the acupuncturist. But you can tap, and there are subtle ways to tap where people won’t even notice that you’re doing it. This is what makes it so profound in terms of stress relief techniques because you can go to a number of stress relief workshops and they’ll tell you about all these things you can do, like meditation and making sure you get a good night’s sleep and eating a healthy diet.

But when you’re in that moment, taking the test or about to have an interview or whatever it is and you’re feeling stressed, it’s too late to be able to go and get a good night’s sleep the night before, or you  may not have the time to take a long walk, and you may be too stressed out even to try to meditate, try to close your eyes and breathe steadily.

But tapping is something that doesn’t require anything else. It can be done almost anywhere. I look forward to the day when tapping is known by enough people, that someone can be tapping in public and nobody will look twice. Or they’ll see someone tapping and go, “You know what, that’s a reminder. I didn’t tap yet today, and I have a little bit of stress that I should clear.” It’s just a friendly reminder, folks.

Before big meetings, treaty signings and meetings over economic or whatever, people tapping beforehand to clear the stress that comes up when they get triggered, and then everyone will have their prefrontal cortex engaged and look for the best solution as opposed to that one that serves their emotional needs. Like you said, these babies looking to suit themselves and looking to “I need to get what I want right now.” That’s just a fear response — people acting out of fear.

As we calm ourselves down, we say, “There isn’t a saber-toothed tiger here. My life isn’t really in danger right now. I can take the time to look at what’s going to suit me at this moment.”


[00:38:21] Ashley James: Imagine 20 years from now in Slovenia, we’ll visit there, and on some street corner will be just people tapping. Just look around busy streets, people coming in and out of banks, tap, tap, tap. It’ll be great. They’ll be the prime example for the rest of the world to follow in their footsteps.


[00:38:44] Brad Yates: Those lists on happiest places to live — Slovenia right at the top. What is it about the Slovenians?


[00:38:53] Ashley James: How old are your kids now?


[00:38:54] Brad Yates: My kids are now 19 and 21.


[00:38:57] Ashley James: Oh, my gosh. So they really were raised tapping.


[00:39:01] Brad Yates: To a certain extent. I wish that I had written my children’s book when they were younger. They were both almost too old for it when I wrote my first children’s book. I would certainly do tapping at times with them, but what your parents do is always uncool especially if what your parents do is tapping on your face. So there was some push back.


[00:39:32] Ashley James: Really?


[00:39:33] Brad Yates: Yeah. Now, I would sometimes find that they would do tapping without letting me know because they certainly weren’t going to admit it, but later they might admit it and use it at times. But it was one of those things that I didn’t want to push, so it wasn’t something that they were forced to do like so many parents force their kids to do things, and there’s just resentment and resistance and things like that.


[00:40:00] Ashley James: Got it. So get them while they’re young, right?


[00:40:03] Brad Yates: Yeah. Teach them before their resistance builds. I’m always inspired when I hear from teenagers who are using the tapping. That’s so awesome because that’s a tough time when you’re caught up in the hormones and need to look cool to try something like this. So yeah, to teach it to kids who aren’t yet worried about that is really beneficial.


[00:40:34] Ashley James: Can you share some stories of success of anyone? If teenagers come to mind, can you share some stories of success that you’re really proud of?


[00:40:44] Brad Yates: I worked with a young man who loves playing baseball but got beamed. He was at bat and the pitcher hit him with a ball. Events will happen to kids, and we see the sort of thing that happens to people all the time and go, “It’s no big deal. Just walk it off,” without recognizing that for some reason, how it affected that child at that moment was not the same as how it would affect them at some other time, or how it might affect some other child.

For some other child, that moment getting beamed by the ball, it’s like, “Ouch, that hurts,” but they walk it off and they walk to the plate. But for some reason, it had an emotional impact on this kid. He couldn’t play baseball. He was afraid to go up to bat. We did some tapping and the next thing I hear from his parents, he’s loving baseball again.

Working with older folks, one of my favorites was a woman whose husband had served her with divorce papers on her birthday. Twenty years later, she was still thinking about it and had anxiety.

We were able to get to the point where she was laughing about it. It was like, “Boy, he was never good at birthday presents,” and she was then free from that to look at it and go, “Yeah, it was an unfortunate situation, but I don’t need to stress out. It was bad enough that day. I don’t need to feel bad about it anymore. Given that he was that kind of person, I’m better off without him.” So it was a gift.

To have those, to be able to change your mind about the situations, and then the freedom that we see — I always love hearing stories from people saying, “I’m in a situation that used to cause me a lot of upset, and I don’t feel that now.”

For me, I had this occur with flying. I had a traumatic event with flying years ago, and after that every time I went to the airport, I suffered. I was flying to Houston once, and I was at the airport on my phone trying to calculate how long it would take me to drive instead of flying. I realized that I wouldn’t be able to make it to my event on time even if I drove all night. So through tapping, I can now be very relaxed in an airport and walk on the plane and not feel uptight. It definitely makes life a whole lot easier.


[00:43:42] Ashley James: Yes. I had a lot of anger that I was having problems processing from someone who had done a very large, harmful thing to my family, something that was unforgivable. I realized that forgiveness isn’t about forgiving the person. It’s about letting go for you. I’m not harming him by holding on to my anger. The person is out of my life. It doesn’t matter whether I’m happy or I’m angry. Either way, it’s not going to hurt him. But somehow, we hold on to anger like it’s going to hurt that other person. It’s just hurting ourselves.


[00:44:26] Brad Yates: Right. Taking poison and hoping the other person suffers.


[00:44:29] Ashley James: Exactly, but tell that to someone who’s angry. I was trying, but at the same time the effects of what he did were still harming my family, so I was in it in the moment. I was in it, being triggered by it.

And so I used EFT, and I like to say I’m the most open-minded skeptic. I’m open-minded enough to try everything, but the placebo effect does not work on me. I’m a mismatcher. I don’t believe anything is going to work anyway, but I’m not going to get the nocebo effect. I’m not going to talk myself out of a benefit. I’m just an open-minded skeptic.

By the end of it, I was laughing. Now, I just had neutral feelings about that person. I went from almost obsessing, thinking about that person, and how many ways I could strangle him for what he did, to just going, “Yeah, whatever. Take it or leave it, that person is not in my life, and I’m just going to move on.” That was less than 15 minutes of EFT, so that was a really interesting experience.


[00:45:44] Brad Yates: Yeah, it’s amazing how quickly it can happen. To make it clear, it doesn’t always happen. These one-minute wonders, that can occur. It doesn’t always happen that way. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of tapping to clear out the emotional distress because there may be all kinds of different aspects. Sometimes it happens very quickly and sometimes it very slow.

Unfortunately, because people will sometimes hear about those very quick shifts, they expect that it has to happen that way or it’s not working. I’ll say, “It’s like taking supplements. The results might not be immediate.”


[00:46:28] Ashley James: Right, take one vitamin C and then get angry that your cold isn’t gone.


[00:46:33] Brad Yates: Right. Expecting that you should suddenly all feel all this vim and vigor from taking one vitamin. Or even doing sit-ups. If you’re really out of shape and you do the three sit-ups and go, “Hey, I don’t have a six-pack yet. What’s the deal? Sit-ups don’t work.”


[00:46:51] Ashley James: Yeah, lies. [laughs]


[00:46:53] Brad Yates: It might take a few more, like a couple of hundred or thousand more. But what happens is it’s always providing some benefit even if it’s very subtle.


[00:47:07] Ashley James: Do you tap every day?


[00:47:10] Brad Yates: I do. It’s generally the first thing I do in the morning. For me, it’s not just a matter of if I’m distressed. Like taking a Tylenol — you take a Tylenol when you have a headache. There are some people who take that on a daily basis for whatever reason, but for me tapping isn’t just a solution to a problem that I am aware of. It helps clear out stress that I’m not aware of because I just sort of take it for granted that there may be things at a subtle level that I’m not aware of.

Just like I brush my teeth even if I don’t see anything sticking out between my teeth. I take a shower even if I’m not aware that I stink because it’s a daily process for me. I just like to have my energy as clean as possible.

We’ll often block ourselves from taking positive action in the world in terms of our career, our health, so we might resist doing certain things because we have a little programming telling us it’s not safe, it’s not comfortable — “Exercise, that’s going to be so uncomfortable.” So I’ll do tapping to clear any resistance to going out and doing what I can do today so that I can have the best day possible.


[00:48:42] Ashley James: Very cool. Can you walk us through that tapping exercise, the Awesome Day tapping exercise? Let’s do that one.


[00:48:54] Brad Yates: I have two videos called Amazing Day. One of them is a shorter version of it. For anyone new to tapping and not familiar with it, what we’re going to do is we’re going to take our index and middle fingers. You can use either hand and tap on either side of the body. Many people will switch back and forth, or they’ll tap both sides at the same time with both hands. I often tap with both hands at the same time. In all of my videos, I tend to tap with the right hand just because it’s simpler that way to demonstrate it.

But right now, go ahead and take your right hand. With the fingertips of your index and middle fingers gently tap on the side of your left hand. We call it the karate chop point. So if you’re to imagine you’re going to use a karate chop to break some board, you’d use that edge of your hand right between your wrist and your pinkie. Just a light tap, tap, tap motion. Gently tap in there.


[00:49:52] Ashley James: Is it like up and down the flesh part that’s below the pinkie finger?


[00:49:58] Brad Yates: Yeah, just right in the middle between your pinkie and your wrist. While we’re tapping there, we state what the issue is. Tapping is generally used with a negative statement, and this freaks a lot of people out. It’s like, “What? I’m supposed to do positive thinking. I’m not supposed to think about negative things because that will make negative things happen, so I should only focus on the positive.” So when we do EFT and say, “Even though I’m so angry at this person…,” it’s like, “What? You can’t talk about anger.”


[00:50:32] Ashley James: Traffic, taxes, doctor bills, mortgage…


[00:50:34] Brad Yates: Yeah. You don’t mention any of those stuff. Ssh, quiet, quiet, quiet! Politics — No, don’t say that word! [laughs]

But what we resist persists. So it’s like if you have a beautiful living room with a beautiful carpet and you also have a beautiful dog, and one day your beautiful dog leaves a not so beautiful gift on your carpet. You are not going to stand there and say, “I’m not going to focus on that. I’m just going to look at where the carpet is still clean and beautiful.” Because if you do that, you’re going to step on it and you’re going to spread it around.

Besides, you’re kidding yourself because as you’re looking at the clean carpet, part of your mind is going, “There’s poop there.” So we’re just lying to ourselves if we’re just trying to focus on the positive when something is bothering us.


[00:51:30] Ashley James: Icing on a mud pie


[00:51:32] Brad Yates: Yeah. Now, this is not a matter of just sitting there on the sofa and looking at the dog poop and going, “Oh, there’s dog poop.” We don’t just want to keep going over and over the problem and focus on it, but we do want to clean it up.

So the tapping is we’re going in, we’re acknowledging it’s there, we’re cleaning it up, and we get rid of it. And then we can go back to enjoying our living room without having to worry about walking around. So that’s why we focus on the poop.

And then we’ll rate that on a scale of 0 to 10, whatever the discomfort is. If I’m feeling angry, I would say, “On a scale of 0 to 10, how angry am I at this person? It’s about an 8. Where in my body do I feel it? It’s a tightness in my stomach.” There may be different physical symptoms of whatever is bothering us.

Just like with the chocolate craving where we asked on a scale of 0 to 10, how much do you want that chocolate. So you have a measurement of where the distress is, so then we’ll tap on the side of the hand and say, “Even though I have this anger or even though I want this chocolate, I chose to love and accept myself.”

Then we make that statement three times, and that’s just creating some room to work with. It acknowledges the issue but also that we accept ourselves because all of the issues that we have are there to protect us. Our anger is there to protect us. It’s like the smoke alarm going off and telling us. Now, it may be a false alarm, but most of us don’t deal with what the issue is, we just sit there and try to drown out the sound of the smoke alarm. We actually want to do it and find out what’s going on. We would state the issue and say, “I love and accept myself even though I have this issue.”

The next part we’re going to tap is the eyebrow point. Right at the beginning of your eyebrow, just above your nose, just about the middle of your face, and gently tap there. We’ll generally tap five to seven times depending on what wording we’re using. So I may say a phrase that is a little bit longer, and this way we may be tapping the point twenty times and that’s okay. It’s not like it has to be exactly between five or ten or the whole thing doesn’t work.

Gently tap right at the beginning of the eyebrow, and we would say, “All of this anger.” Follow the eyebrow out to the side of the eye, the corner of your eye socket and gently tap there — “All this anger.”  Then following the edge of your eye socket to under the middle of your eye just above your cheek — “All of this anger.” Then right below your nose, just above your upper lip, gently tap in there — “All of this anger.” And just below your lower lip, just above your chin — “All of this anger.”

Then we go to the collarbone. If you feel your collarbone just about come together, there’s a little U-shape at the base of your throat, and you can tap all of your fingers there or even make a fist and tap where the collarbones just about come together — “All of this anger.” Now, about four inches below your armpit, just right about bra strap level and I’m sure even the guys can figure where that is, just tap in there with all of your fingers and say, “All of this anger.”


[00:55:09] Ashley James: So it’s below the armpit?


[00:55:11] Brad Yates: Yeah, four inches directly below your armpit. And then finally, the top of your head. So using all of your fingertips again, just tapping around in little circles around the crown of your head — “All of this anger.” And then take a deep breath. And then we check again and say, “Now, on a scale of 0 to 10, how angry do you feel?” particularly paying attention to wherever in your body you might have been feeling that.


[00:55:39] Ashley James: Like super calm.


[00:55:41] Brad Yates: Yeah. So you’re already feeling the benefits of that stress relief. Even in the example like this where you might not have been feeling angry, hopefully after an hour talking to me, you’re not feeling angry.

But even without feeling any anger and being in a relatively relaxed state, you can also say, “Yeah, but I’m even more relaxed now just after this little bit of tapping” because we’re just calming the body down and clearing out any level of stress that you might not have been aware of ahead of time.

So that’s the basics of tapping and EFT in a nutshell. Now we’re going to have some fun with it.


[00:56:21] Ashley James: Good. Yeah, I didn’t really have any anger to begin with, but I was going with it and I tapped my hand for a while as you were talking, and I’m like, “Okay, I don’t feel anything.” And then we’re tapping the forehead, don’t feel anything, tapping the eyebrow, cheek, nose, lip — don’t feel anything. Tapping by the throat, I’m like, “Okay, he’s cool.” I’m tapping down below the armpit, and I’m like, “Whoa! Wait a second. I’m feeling like really good right now.”

It’s interesting. Don’t judge it. Just do it because it’s–


[00:57:02] Brad Yates: And we’re peeling layers of the onion, that’s the thing. With the tapping, we create a safe place for things to come up, so even though you weren’t aware of anything bothering you, through the tapping, some things might have been coming up and getting released without you even having to know what they are. It’s like, “I’m suddenly feeling better. I just took the trash out. I don’t know what was in there, but the room feels fresher now.”


[00:57:29] Ashley James: Have you worked with addicts who want to stop using drugs or alcohol?


[00:57:35] Brad Yates: For three years I taught a course at Sacramento Drug Court, and this was a court-mandated program for people coming out of jail on drug offenses, and they have to go through a recovery program. So for three years, I taught a class once a week. That was very interesting. It was a very different audience for me.


[00:57:56] Ashley James: Did they like it? Were they receptive?


[00:57:59] Brad Yates: Not everyone was receptive to me coming in and telling them to tap on their face. But those who were willing, it was so awesome when they were open to it. Some guy would come back and say, “This blip really works.”

I was like, “That’s why they bring me in here each week to teach it to you.” This is not just, “Hey, you know what, we’re letting them out of jail, but we still need to punish them, so we’ll make them tap on their face each week. That will be further service to society, a little bit of extra punishment for their crimes.”


[00:58:42] Ashley James: [laughs] I bet.


[00:58:45] Brad Yates: So it was awesome to see that. And I have worked with folks with different addictions. Again, whether it’s chocolate, or drugs, or alcohol, there is that part of this that is looking for some relief as you’re saying earlier about. Kids looking, they’re not learning from their parents how to deal with that stress, except that they are because they’re seeing their parents drink or smoke or do whatever it is that they do, and from a young age, we’re just learning by example.

As a small child, we learn everything from watching and emulating parents that’s around us. That’s how we learn how to talk. That’s how we learn how to walk. That’s why we have the same accent that our parents we have. Wherever we come from, we speak the same language.

As a small child, it’s not that we say, “Okay, this is how people talk. All right, I’ll do it that way.” “Oh, this is how people walk. I’ll do it that way.” “Oh, this is how people deal with stress, eating a pint of ice cream. No, that didn’t sound healthy; I’m not going do that.” We don’t have that reasoning ability. “When people get upset, they yell at each other, and maybe they throw things to each other. Yeah, that doesn’t sound like a good idea. I won’t do it.” No, we learn that this is how adults, this is how people are supposed to deal with a situation, and so we pick up so much of that stuff.


[01:00:12] Ashley James: Absolutely. My son is turning four this month, and I can’t believe how many times I’ve caught myself going, “Oh, my gosh. I’m just like my parents. This is crazy because it’s so unconscious.” As much as we don’t want to be like our parents, it’s just reactionary. I can definitely see EFT being a tool to help us to put that break state in there, so we can stop that vicious cycle.


[01:00:39] Brad Yates: That’s what the tough thing is about, knowing the stuff that with my children, when I’d find myself losing my temper and saying things like, “Oh, dang it, I know better than this.” Ignorance is bliss, and then I can just yell at my kids and not worry about it. But knowing this, but not yet being perfect…


[01:01:00] Ashley James: Well, there’s no such thing as perfection when it comes to parenting. It’s just love them as much as you can and you’re going to be great at it.

The tapping exercise you just taught us, if we don’t have anger but we want to do it every morning to take out the garbage, what can we say during it?


[01:01:16] Brad Yates: Now, we’ll do our Awesome Day tapping. First, I want to give you folks that demonstration of the very simplest form of tapping. Obviously, the simplest form is just tap, and you already know the points now, and of course, as I said, I’ve got over 800 videos on YouTube that you can find.

But if you’re feeling stressed, you can just tap. You can tap while saying prayers, while saying affirmations. You can sing a song, or you can just be silent. The tapping is going to be beneficial.

But if you want to use words to focus on a particular issue, what I just showed you is the way to do it and say, “Even though I have this issue, this anger, this chocolate craving — whatever it might be…” And at each point, repeat that phrase, and that will be beneficial.

Now, the way I do it, I like to be a little more creative and explore what might be going on. But we can also do tapping with a positive statement. There’s some controversy about this. Some people say, “No, tapping is only to re-mediate negative things, and you should always just focus on the negative things.”

For me, the joy, love, and peace are our true nature, and anything else is just covering that up. So as we focus on the positive, we’re naturally going to be addressing whatever is in the way. If I say a positive affirmation, if I say I’m healthy and I don’t feel like I’m healthy,  I’m just naturally going to be bringing up the arguments. So I will be doing the tapping on anything that is not health-minded, that is not positive, that doesn’t feel good.

So I find that by tapping on the so-called positive, we naturally clear out whatever is covering up the positive. So I’d refer about the Michelangelo process. Michelangelo said that the statue is already there perfect inside the marble. All he had to do is chip away what didn’t belong to reveal the masterpiece inside. To me, that’s a perfect analogy for what we’re doing with the tapping.

Whether we’re focusing on, “Here’s a piece of marble that doesn’t belong, like this anger, this chocolate craving. This is a block of rock that doesn’t belong here, and I could chip that away.” Or I can be focusing on, “There’s this magnificent statue inside, and I’m clearing away what doesn’t belong with my focus being revealing that masterpiece.” Either way, I’m chipping what doesn’t belong.

With that in mind, go ahead and close your eyes. Take a deep breath and hold it, and let it go. Just go ahead breathing comfortably. Just follow your breath through your body. Allow yourself to check in with how you’re feeling emotionally and how you’re feeling physically. Go ahead and rate yourself on a scale of 0 to 10, 10 being awesome — “I feel awesome right now.”

If it’s less than a 10, don’t judge yourself for where the number is at. It’s not a matter of you should be a 10, or you should feel awesome 24/7. It’s not a test. Just allowing yourself to get an idea of, “Where am I at right now?” Allow yourself to be aware of what might in the way of that being a 10. Just allowing yourself to be aware of whatever might be going on in there. Allow yourself to be aware of any thoughts, beliefs or memories that might be coming up, that might be lowering your feeling of awesomeness. Just allow yourself to be aware of what feels relevant and what feels important.

Take another deep breath, and open your eyes if you like. Go ahead and start tapping the side of your hand. Ashley, if you will be my echo voice and repeat back what I say, and then everyone else, just tap where I tell you to tap and repeat back what I say along with Ashley.


[01:05:44] I choose to have an awesome day, and I choose to love and accept myself. I choose to have an awesome day, and I choose to love and honor myself. I choose to have an awesome day. I mean because why not? I think I deserve that. If I have any doubts about deserving it, I choose to clear that because I choose to have an awesome day. And I choose to deeply and completely love, honor and accept myself, and maybe anyone else who might show up today because I choose to feel that awesome.

Tapping the eyebrow point — I choose to have an awesome day

Side of the eye — I choose to have an awesome day

Under the eye — I choose to feel awesome

Under the nose — I choose to do awesome things

Under the mouth — I choose to perform in an awesome way

Collarbone — I’m allowing myself to be awesome

Under the arm — Because the more I allow myself to be awesome

Top of the head — The more I’m likely to feel awesome

Eyebrow point — And create an awesome day

Side of the eye — Because I get to create my day

Under the eye — What I’m thinking and feeling

Under the nose — Is going to contribute to the kind of day I have

Under the mouth — So if I choose to have awesome thoughts

Collarbone — And feel awesome feelings

Under the arm — That’s what kind of day I’m going to have

Top of the head — Part of me might be saying

Eyebrow point — Yeah, right

Side of the eye — You know some of the steps you got to do today

Under the eye — And some of it is definitely not awesome

Under the nose — How could I possibly have an awesome day?

On the mouse — It’s not up to me

Collarbone — All these beliefs

Under the arm — That it’s not up to me

Top of the head — Who taught me that crap?

Eyebrow point — And were they a Nobel Prize winner?

Side of the eye — Who says they’re right?

Under the eye — If I choose to have an awesome day

Under the nose — I can even deal with these things

Under the mouth — And still feel awesome

Collarbone — And I might even have an awesome outcome

Under the arm — I’m certainly going to have a better outcome

Top of the head — By approaching it this way

Eyebrow point — I’m open to the possibility

Side of the eye — That even if some of the things I have to do today

Under the eye — Are not exactly fun

Under the nose — I can still choose to have an awesome day

Under the mouth — And I’m clearing whatever might get in the way of that

Collarbone — Whatever fears might be coming up

Under the arm — Whatever doubts might be coming up

Top of the head — I’m letting that stuff go

Eyebrow point — Whatever resistance I might have to having an awesome day

Side of the eye — And part of me might say

Under the eye — What a silly thing to say

Under the nose — Why on earth would I resist to having an awesome day?

Under the mouth — I don’t know. Why do I do that on a regular basis?

Collarbone — Because the extent to which we’re not experiencing what we want

Under the arm — Tends to be the extent to which we’re resisting it

Top of the head — Whether that’s health or money

Eyebrow point — Or just having an awesome day

Side of the eye — I don’t do it consciously

Under the eye — But at some unconscious level

Under the nose — I have this belief that my day shouldn’t be awesome

Under the mouth — Once in a while I’m allowed an awesome day

Collarbone — But certainly not on a regular basis

Under the arm — And it’s not because I’m bad or stupid

Top of the head — It’s just my programming

Eyebrow point — I probably haven’t known a lot of people

Side of the eye — Who usually have awesome days

Under the eye — In fact, I’ve known an awful lot of people

Under the nose — Who very rarely had awesome days

Under the mouth — And I learned to expect that

Collarbone — And I really love and appreciate myself

Under the arm — For creating a life that makes sense to me

Top of the head — And now I’m open to changing my mind

Eyebrow point — Why not have awesome days most of the time?

Side of the eye — I know that life can happen

Under the eye — And sometimes it’s challenging

Under the nose — So I’m not setting up an expectation

Under the mouth — But every moment of my life

Collarbone — From this moment forward

Under the arm — Is going to be pure bliss

Top of the head — Although I’m totally open to that happening

Eyebrow point — I won’t set up an expectation

Side of the eye — Such that I then have to be disappointed

Under the eye — But I choose to make it as awesome as possible

Under the nose — And I’m clearing any reason why I couldn’t or shouldn’t

Under the mouth — I’m clearing any belief that I don’t deserve an awesome day

Collarbone — Clearing all these old messages

Under the arm — That might tell me I don’t deserve it

Top of the head — That was just misunderstanding

Eyebrow point — The truth is

Side of the eye — I’m a magnificent child of the universe

Under the eye — Worthy and deserving of the best this world has to offer

Under the nose — Nothing is too good for me

Under the mouth — Because I could go outside

Collarbone — And see the same beautiful sky as anybody else

Under the arm — And I choose to see this as a sign

Top of the head — That as far as the universe is concerned

Eyebrow point — I’m just as deserving as anybody else

Side of the eye — So I choose to have an awesome day

Under the eye — I’m worthy and deserving of an awesome day

Under the nose — I’m clearing any old reason

Under the mouth — Why I couldn’t or shouldn’t have an awesome day

Collarbone — All those old arguments

Under the arm — About how it’s supposed to be hard

Top of the head — It’s supposed to be a struggle

Eyebrow point — And clearing any fear

Side of the eye — If I do have an awesome day

Under the eye — That’s going to really upset some people

Under the nose — I’m going to be sitting here having an awesome day

Under the mouth — And some people that I might care about

Collarbone — Might get really pissed off

Under the arm — Oh, sure, you’re having an awesome day

Top of the head — And in the past

Eyebrow point — My programming might have told me

Side of the eye — Oh, I’m upsetting this person

Under the eye — In order to make them feel better

Under the nose — I need to feel less awesome

Under the mouth — I’m not sure how that really helps them

Collarbone — Me feeling less awesome

Under the arm — It’s not going to make anyone else feel more awesome

Top of the head — That would be like standing at the beach

Eyebrow point — Enjoying the view of the ocean

Side of the eye — And having someone with me

Under the eye — With their back turned to the ocean

Under the nose — Complaining about the view that I get

Under the mouth — So I turn my back to the ocean

Collarbone — Now we’re both missing the view

Under the arm — I choose to keep enjoying the awesome view

Top of the head — And encourage this other person to turn their butt around

Eyebrow point — As a matter of fact, I am having an awesome day

Side of the eye — I encourage you to do the same thing

Under the eye — And if you have to tap on your face to do it, fine!

Under the nose — I think it’s worth it

Under the mouth — I choose to have an awesome day

Collarbone — I choose to feel as awesome as possible

Under the arm — Letting go of whatever gets in the way

Top of the head — Setting myself free to feel awesome in body, mind and spirit

And take a deep breath.

[01:16:20] Go ahead and close your eyes again, and go inside, and check in with how you’re feeling on a scale of 0 to 10, 10 being awesome. See if that number has gone up. For a lot of you, the number will go up. For some, it may go dramatically up.

If you don’t feel like the number has gone up, and it is possible that for some folks the number may have gone slightly down because what we’ve done is we’ve uncovered some stuff that you may not have been consciously aware of — that stress that you’ve been avoiding because it didn’t feel safe to look at.

So it’s like, if you’re going to clean your living room because you have company coming over, and you look at it and go, “On a scale of 0 to 10, how clean is it already? It’s probably about an 8, but I want it to be a 10, so I got to clean it up.” In the process, I lift the rug, and I find there’s dirt that was swept under there. I removed the sofa, and I find there’s dirty laundry under the sofa. It’s no longer an 8 out of 10 on how clean it is. Now, it’s like a 3 or a 4.

Would we say, “Oh, man. I never should have gotten to clean my living room. It was much cleaner before I started cleaning.” No, because now you can clean it out. When it’s clean, it really will be clean as opposed to just looking like it’s clean. So if the number feels like it’s gone down or it’s just the same, hopefully, you’re aware of, “Yes, but now I’m more aware of why I’m not feeling as awesome as possible right now, and now I can do something about that.”


[01:17:54] Ashley James: I feel like I just got off the elliptical trainer after exercising for 45 minutes. I have that endorphin high. I feel really good.


[01:18:03] Brad Yates: Cool.


[01:18:05] Ashley James: Seriously, I feel like I just walked out of the gym. Pretty awesome.


[01:18:11] Brad Yates: In a way, you did.


[01:18:13] Ashley James: My arm definitely feels it got a workout. That’s for sure.


[01:18:19] Brad Yates: As I demonstrated the first time around, some of the tappings are just really quick and you can tap just one point. I’ll even do a full round. You can tap for a few moments.

But when I’m doing around like this, I go with whatever word you’re coming up, and sometimes it will go on for 20, 30, 40 minutes as the ideas are flowing and just covering all kinds of bases. As you could hear through that, it’s like I’ll be going off on one idea, and then an idea will come up about, “Well, here’s another reason why I might not allow myself to feel awesome. Oh, it might upset other people. Okay, I want to deal with that. I want to try to explore any of the reasons that I might have at an unconscious level as to why I couldn’t or shouldn’t feel awesome.”

As I clear up those misunderstanding, it’s like, “Oh, actually it makes sense for me to have an awesome day. I’m giving myself permission to have an awesome day.”


[01:19:17] Ashley James: I can definitely see that your experience as a hypnotherapist has come in handy and your ability as an actor to improv and to use hypnotic language to help that person to bring stuff up to process while you’re tapping.


[01:19:36] Brad Yates: Everything we do leads us to where we are. For better or for worse.


[01:19:43] Ashley James: Right. So cool.


[01:19:44] Brad Yates: We could make it better.


[01:19:46] Ashley James: So we do this every day. That will be awesome. Coming back to the idea of food addiction, like someone addicted to chocolate, will they do this? Will they do the tapping those points that you’ve shown us? Is there a different set of points that they tap for that?


[01:20:06] Brad Yates: I would use the same points, and you could say, “This chocolate craving,” as I had set it up when I was talking through this. Ask how on a scale of 0 to 10, how much I wanted the chocolate, and I said it’s about an 8 or 9, and then tapping to the point, you could say, “This chocolate craving.”

I remember Gary saying some things like, “Mmm, yum. It’s going to taste so good. Oh, I’m going to enjoy it so much. It gives me such happy feelings.” Just playing with the wording like that, then stop whenever you like to stop after one round. You can go a couple of rounds, and then say, “On a scale of 0 to 10, how much is that craving there?”

As I’ve already said, I didn’t eat chocolate for two years. And then I went back, and I will go through periods where I’ll have some chocolate. Just recently, the Easter candy has come out, and those Reese’s peanut butter eggs are a soft spot for me. I have a couple of those, and I’ll be, “That’s enough. Now, I’m going to clear my system, and I want to go off sugar for a while,” and I’ll tap. Those things can be sitting out in front of me. I’m just likely to eat those as I would a rock because it doesn’t look like food to me. There is no craving there.

What will that take to get to that point? I don’t know. It will vary for some people. For some folks, they can tap a couple of points, and they’ll look at them and go, “Yeah, I won’t eat that.” That first time with the Hershey’s kisses, he had us then take a bite of it. I couldn’t eat it. It tasted too sweet and chalky. It felt like compressed chemicals, which in many ways it is. You couldn’t force me to eat it at that point.

You can get to that point, and I remember someone in the room saying, “Please don’t make me tap on this because you’ll ruin french fries for me. Please don’t ruin chocolate for me.”


[01:22:23] Ashley James: That’s so funny.


[01:22:25] Brad Yates: You might go through this, so don’t use this on something that you don’t want to give up forever because you might. But again, it might come up again because you have years of programming telling you that this is what fixes the problems for you. “When I’m upset, chocolate makes me feel better.”

That’s why you see people with drug addictions. It’s like, “I know that I’m likely to wake up tomorrow in my own vomit, but still at this moment right now, it’s worth it.”

That’s the brain. That’s allowing ourselves to recognize that the self-sabotage is just misguided self-love. When we are harming ourselves in those ways, it’s not that we’re trying to do ourselves in. Even though it may look like it, like “Wow, I’m trying to kill myself here,” whether it’s quickly or slowly with unhealthy food.

But we’re not thinking that way. What we’re thinking is, “I’m in pain at the moment, whether it’s just mild anxiety or stress, or actual, real, gut-wrenching emotional pain, and I need to fix this.” Over the years, “Hey, chocolate always made me feel better. Ice cream always made me better.” Cookies, cigarettes, alcohol — whatever it might be. “Even though I know there are going to be unfortunate consequences, I will deal with those later. Right now, I have to deal with the pain that’s present in this moment. I can’t be bothered with possible pain that might happen in the future. “

And as one might start saying, “I’ve heard of people who lived to 120 years, even though they drank and smoke. So, hey, there’s no guarantee that drinking and smoking are going to cause me pain and hurt me. But I do know that the pain I feel right now is real.”

Allowing ourselves rather than beating ourselves up for our unhealthy behavior, really having some self-compassion and appreciating the love and intention, and then choosing to find a healthier alternative, you generally drop a habit. You have to replace a habit.

Tapping is a very simple and effective way of really dealing with the pain that’s right there and clearing it out. Because that emotional pain, as you’re saying about the person that you’re angry at, something that happened in the past is not happening in the present right now.

So often, when we look at the fact that the body is constantly regenerating itself — old cells are dying off, new cells are growing — virtually the entire body is replaced over a period of seven years or so. So many of the things that are bothering us happened to a person that doesn’t even really exist anymore at a physical level. We’re just holding on to the energy field, and we can change our mind about that if we allow ourselves to.


[01:25:30] Ashley James: I like that you brought up that this is the habit that we can use to replace. We can replace those other habits with this. We learn coping mechanisms from our parents and the people that were around when we were growing up. Those coping mechanisms might not serve us right now, but we don’t have anything else. So now we can go, “I’m not going to run to the cigarettes or the alcohol or the sugar or the porn addiction.”

As you said, it’s a misguided self-love because we’re in pain, but we can use the tapping, and if we want to also in addition to that, use affirmations or positive self-talk or positive imagery, or use tapping and then make sure we go to a therapist or hypnotherapist or some counselor to augment.


[01:26:24] Brad Yates: Yes, I’m a big proponent of 12-step programs because I’ve known people in the past who were not aware of how challenging addictions are. I’ve known people who said, “This person was saying they needed a drink and it was like a 10, and I tapped with them, and it was a 0. So they’re cured of alcoholism now.” I’m like, “No, no, no!”

The fact that you’ve helped them clear the craving at the moment doesn’t deal with a lifetime of addictive behavior. So if you’re dealing with addiction, especially one that has life-threatening consequences, have a program of continued support.

I’m open to the possibility that in some cases you could tap away so much that kind of unhealthy craving never shows up. But I would never tell somebody after losing the craving at that moment that they’re done because that would be highly irresponsible.


[01:27:28] Ashley James: But it’s a tool that we use at the moment, and we can use it preventively every morning when we wake up. We can also use it at the moment during times of stress at stoplights, in between business meetings, throughout the day, and when we go to bed at night. Use it for like one to two minutes a few times a day to clear out the stress, lower the cortisol, so then we’re not going to get to a point where we have to self-soothe.


[01:27:58] Brad Yates: Right. The tapping, in terms of addiction, helps in two ways. One, it deals with the immediate issue of the craving and whatever is bothering us at that moment. It can also be used to heal those past injuries that contribute to the addiction.

Over time, we can clear out so much trauma and emotional pain that we rarely, if ever, feel inclined to do something self-destructive. It’s what helping at both levels. It’s not just a band-aid at the moment, but it does help to clear the pain that’s underneath the addiction. Don’t assume that it’s all gone after a few minutes of tapping.


[01:28:49] Ashley James: When I say addiction, I’m referring to 100% of the population. I think that a small percentage of population will use addictive substances where it’s obvious. But 100% of us have been known to use something to self-soothe, whether it’s bingeing on Netflix, eating a pint of ice cream, choosing to smoke cigarettes or whatever — do behaviors that we know aren’t healthy — play video games all night. We have self-soothed. When I say addiction, what I meant was unhealthy coping strategies.


[01:29:25] Brad Yates: Yeah, we all have drugs of choice. We all have to face challenging situations, and we all have our different ways, our learned behaviors, our defense mechanisms, our different ways of self-soothing, of making ourselves feel better. Unfortunately, so many of those are unhealthy things.

Some people learn very healthy coping mechanisms — lucky them. But you’re learning healthy mechanisms now. Virtually anyone has some less than ideal way of dealing with emotional or physical discomfort.

[01:30:09] Ashley James: But now we have a new tool that is safe, effective, healthy and a great alternative.


[01:30:16] Brad Yates: Yes.


[01:30:17] Ashley James: Awesome. This was so much fun, Brad. I know we could talk all day long, but I’m really excited for you to tell the listeners more about how they can learn from you. The links to everything you do are going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at, including access to your 800 YouTube videos. But I know you also have online workshops and in-person workshops. Tell us how people can work with you.


[01:30:43] Brad Yates: Thank you. You can find that information on Tap With Brad and in the links in the show notes. Besides the YouTube videos, I do have online courses, and I also do live workshops. Coming up very soon, I’ll be up in your area, in Seattle. Thank you for helping me find a venue.


[01:31:07] Ashley James: Absolutely. You’re doing it at the Lynnwood Convention Center, right?


[01:31:11] Brad Yates: From your recommendation.


[01:31:12] Ashley James: Yes, I’m so glad that you chose that. I’ve been there several times for events, and then I’ve been to events where people who aren’t from Seattle choose to rent a venue in the downtown Seattle, and no one goes downtown Seattle for events. It’s just like crickets.

I hope that you get standing room only at your event to the Lynnwood Convention Center, and then in the same parking lot is one of the best spas for women. It’s a Korean spa. Only for women — sorry, Brad. But all the women afterward could go to the spa. It’s this amazing, very relaxing spa. So they’ll already be relaxed, and then they could just walk across the parking lot to the best spa, my favorite spa to go to.

So Brad, tell us about Seattle — what are the dates and how can people who are local buy tickets.


[01:32:13] Brad Yates: The Seattle workshop is going to be on April 13th. The workshops that I have coming up will be daylong workshops, from 10 to 4. It’s a lot of tapping. It’s peeling a lot of layers of the onion. I sometimes do two-hour workshops, and sometimes I do full weekend workshops.

I like having the longer workshops where we have a chance to clear stuff out, then find the next layer, clear stuff out, and get to an amazing feeling place.

And then in June, I have workshops coming up in Austin, Las Vegas, Atlanta, and Philadelphia. Later in the year, I will be in Toronto and Vancouver, and probably in some other places. I just haven’t gotten beyond the next several months.


[01:33:18] Ashley James: Fantastic.


[01:33:19] Brad Yates: Hopefully back in the UK maybe this summer.


[01:33:23] Ashley James: Very good. Those are some great cities. I know we have wonderful listeners in all those cities. Looking forward to them attending your live workshop. What’s the difference between watching YouTube videos and attending a live workshop?


[01:33:38] Brad Yates: The live workshops — one, they’re a lot more fun just because you have a live audience. It’s fun for me as an actor to have an audience. That’s my favorite thing to do. But also the group energy is also powerful, and everyone who goes to live events says that you feel the other people with their energy shifting and it’s combined energy.

So many people have said, “I have something that I want to bring up, and I just couldn’t. And then someone else said exactly what I wanted to say, brought up exactly what was bothering me,” and that happens all the time. So those things that we feel unable to voice or we didn’t even know. That happens all the time too. People would say, “I didn’t know that was bothering me until this person brought it up, and it feels so much better now.” There’s an amazing group energy that’s really powerful.

Not that tapping through the videos is not powerful on its own. I try to make it as fun as possible. Bring in some humor, so it’s the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down as opposed to, “Alright, now let’s deal with this unhappy situation and tap, tap, tap.” It’s already painful enough. Why do I want to do that? Not that we don’t deal with some heavy stuff sometimes, but taking that lighter approach.

I say to folks, “If you like my videos, you’re going to love the live workshop. If you love my videos, you should already be signed up for a live event.”


[01:35:19] Ashley James: Very cool. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun. I like that you brought up you might not think of your problem in that way, and then you hear someone else say it. So people can grab the mike and share, but the introverts who are listening right now are freaking out. You don’t have to put your hand up or share the mike, but someone who does, you might start to see your problem in a different light. That’s very cathartic to hear other people resolve their problems. Do you do on-stage one-on-one coaching with people?


[01:35:54] Brad Yates: I rarely do that now. Sometimes if I do a longer workshop, there might be times where it feels appropriate to bring somebody up to work more specifically on them. But in general, I’ll ask the audience. It’s all created by the group that’s there. Every workshop is different because it’s always a different group. But I tend to leave them in their seats so that the tapping around that I do is for everybody and I’m looking at everyone as we go through it. It’s only in the longer workshops where there may be times where that feels appropriate.


[01:36:31] Ashley James: Awesome. This has been so much fun, Brad. I am very excited to hear about all my listeners, their results working with you. We have a great group of our listeners, our Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group. After we publish this show, I’m sure we’ll be chatting in that group about you and my listeners’ experiences as they follow your YouTube videos and hopefully also see you live.

Is there anything that you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?


[01:37:04] Brad Yates: The last thing I always like to say in interviews is to express the importance of self-love and learning to love yourself. I do believe that we all do love ourselves, that’s why I say that self-sabotage is misguided self-love. But allowing ourselves to acknowledge that love, because so often so many of us have programming saying that loving yourself is wrong, it’s arrogant and conceited, and things like that.

It’s really at the root of turning things around for yourself and your relationship with others and the world at large as you allow yourself to love yourself more — real genuine love. Arrogance is trying to pretend, trying to convince yourself that you’re better than other people. If you’re doing that, that’s because you have some doubt.

When you acknowledge how awesome you are, you can’t help but start to see how awesome other people are and help them to realize that too. It’s a total win-win situation.

Any reasons you might have as to why you couldn’t love yourself more, please tap those away. Allow yourself to acknowledge your awesomeness and share it with the world, and thank you for doing that.


[01:38:15] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you so much, Brad. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show today. You are welcome any time if you want to teach us more EFT and how to have an awesome day and awesome life.


[01:38:28] Brad Yates: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Ashley. I had a great time chatting with you, and I greatly appreciate this opportunity to share this work with your listeners.


[01:38:39] Ashley James: Wasn’t that a fantastic interview with Brad Yates? Don’t you love EFT, and won’t you love to go and meet him live and in person and do his class? If you can, you should do that.

I’m going to make sure the links to all of the dates of his live events are in the show notes of today’s podcast at But to iterate in case you don’t have a pen handy, I want you to know that the upcoming dates are: Saturday, April 13th, at Seattle. You can go to to sign up there. Saturday, June 8th, in Austin, Texas. You can go to sign up there. Sunday, June 9th, in Las Vegas. Go to to sign up there. Saturday, June 22nd, in Atlanta, Georgia, and go to to sign up there. Finally, to come to his Tap Into Your Best Self class in Philly. Go to

I hope to see you there in Seattle if you’re local. If not and you do go to one of the other classes, make sure that you say hi to Brad and tell him how much you love his interview. We should definitely have him back on the show.

If you like this interview, too, come to the Facebook group and comment. Let me know what you think. I know we’ll start a discussion about this interview after it goes live in the Learn True Health Facebook group.

Funny story I have to share with you — just today, one of our listeners, Mercy, posted in the Facebook group, and she said, “Can I just say how much I love Ashley James and Learn True Health. My husband just called from the car on his way home from a business trip and said, ‘Hey, I’ve been listening to your girl Ashley James,’ and then he started telling me about one of the episodes like I haven’t heard it yet. He was pumped up about minerals and several other tidbits. Thank you, Ashley, for putting out the best podcast on true health.”

I got to tell you, I was smiling ear to ear. It totally tickled me pink, and I said, “Hey, tell me his name. I got to do show notes.” So his name is Neil Westfallon, and I hope I said that right — big shout-out to Neil. I always love it when husbands and wives, or boyfriend/girlfriends or partners, sisters, brothers, and I love it when friends get together and listen to the show. I always love it when I hear that someone said, “Yeah, my friend turned me into this, or my sister or my cousin turned me on to this.”

What I get a lot is, “My mom turned me on to this,” or I’ll get a mom saying, “My daughter turned me on to this,” and I love it. I love that we can share this information and that we could have this common ground of wanting to celebrate and build and cultivate true health together.

Isn’t it amazing that we can express our gratitude and love for one another by sharing podcasts like this that will help enrich their lives? Thank you so much for sharing this podcast. Join the Facebook group if you haven’t already and join the fun discussions there.

Neil, big shout-out to you. Thanks for having a fantastic business trip traveling home while listening to the Learn True Health podcast. Can’t wait to see you guys in the Facebook group, and have yourselves an excellent rest of your day.

Get Connected With Brad Yates!






Books by Brad Yates

The Wizard’s Wish

A Garden of Emotions

Co-author: Freedom at Your Fingertips

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Tap Into Your Best Self – Brad Yates & Ashley James – #342

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Kristen Bowen and Ashley James

I am very excited to welcome back to the show, Kristen Bowen, the founder of Living The Good Life Naturally and my favorite Magnesium Soak!

I am a huge fan of this magnesium soak. I’ve been experimenting with different forms of magnesium supplementation for eight years, and this one has been the most effective by far for helping me achieve full cell saturation levels of magnesium.

In this interview, I go into more detail and share my experience with using Kristen Bowen’s Living The Good Life Naturally Magnesium Soak. We first had Kristen on Learn True Health in Episode 294: Magnesium Foot Soak.

Sleep Through The Night

I’ve been using Living The Good Life Naturally Magnesium Soak since last summer with my husband and our 3-year-old son. Before this soak, it would take us up to 2 hours each night to get our son to sleep! Even with taking liquid magnesium as a supplement approved by his Naturopathic Pediatrician he was still always wound up!

The very first night he did his regular bath with a 1/8 cup of Kristen’s Living The Good Life Naturally Magnesium Soak in his bath he ASKED us to put him to bed without reading his regular five books because he was ready to sleep!!!

Ever since then we have regularly added this concentrated magnesium to his nighttime baths, and he has stopped fighting us at bedtime. He falls asleep quickly and stays asleep through the night. Plus he is calmer during the day!

And that is just his results! My husband and I have also noticed fantastic results of our own. There is a Facebook post in our podcast’s Facebook group with 175 comments of people in the community sharing how great this has been for their health and the health of their family.

One community member made a video sharing how this magnesium soak has stopped her life-long migraines!

Several others have shared that it has helped them finally get better sleep, stop restless legs, aid them in more energy and fewer or no feelings of stress in their day.

Our body needs magnesium for over 1,800 cellular processes, Dr. Carolyn Dean shared in Episode 227: Curing Diseases with Magnesium.

Magnesium is the most important mineral for health and the one we are chronically low in all of the time!

Lab Test For Magnesium Levels

If you are not sure that you have a magnesium deficiency, you can get a $50 blood test called the RBC Mag test. You can get it from if you are in the US.

You want your number to be between 6 and 7.2. Most people are below 5, which means they are chronically deficient. When you are deficient in magnesium, it affects hormones, immune health, soft tissue health, stress, sleep, the brain! The list goes on and on. Every system of the body requires magnesium, and every system begins to breakdown without it.

That is why this magnesium soak is so effective. As you can tell, I have become a big cheerleader of Kristen Bowen’s Living The Good Life Naturally Magnesium Soak. I was very skeptical at the beginning. I am open-minded enough to give something new a try, and I will let the results speak for themselves. And they did!

Near the beginning of our interview Kristen shares that for the next two weeks Learn True Health listeners will get a free jar of her 100% natural Magnesium Muscle Cream plus the regular 10% off that LTH listeners normally get by using the coupon code LTH.

What Saved Kristen’s Life

This interview was quite a rollercoaster ride of life-changing health information! In our first interview, Kristen shared her story. At her lowest point, Kristen was 70lbs, in a wheelchair and having 30 seizures a day with her hair falling out in handfuls and brain fog so bad she could barely talk.

She tried everything to regain her health. It wasn’t until she discovered this pure, concentrated magnesium from the Zechstein Sea that she began to gain her health back!

Kristen came to discover that with this specific type of naturally occurring magnesium we absorb 20 GRAMS of bio-available magnesium in a one hour bath with this magnesium soak! This is the most effective way to get magnesium into your body for relaxation, pain relief, sleep, and anxiety!

For her, within weeks of using the soak, it helped end her seizures, combat her autoimmune disease and restore her health to the point where she could walk, talk and think again! She said it was like a light bulb went on inside her. She had been so minerally deficient for so many years that the magnesium she was soaking in filled her like a car engine on empty gulping in gallons of fuel at the gas station.

How To Achieve Low Maintenance Health

In our interview, Kristen brings up an interesting point. Looking at her life, some might think she has to do a lot of things each day to keep on top of her health. These small, daily rituals have built a strong foundation of wellness that allows her to thrive. Her investment into supplements, clean foods, online workshops, holistic medical devices like saunas, herbs, lotions, treatments like massage and acupuncture all have been part of building this foundation.

And now, over 12 years after Kristen was able to liberate herself from the frailty of illness the MDs said she would never recover from, she has built a foundation of health so strong that she refers to her health as “low maintenance.” She shares that the years of hard work do pay off. It takes the right mindset, lifestyle, and food choices to have low maintenance health.

Importance Of Boron For Our Health

Many of our listeners reached out to Kristen after our first interview with a barrage of wonderful questions. The most common one was, “After I reach cell saturation, how can I maintain and hold onto my magnesium better?

“Kristen shares that many other deficiencies and conditions can “burn through” our magnesium stores quickly, like a boat with a leak, leading to perpetual mineral deficiency.

“If you use the magnesium soak daily and are unable to reach full cell saturation after 30 days, we have a crack in the foundation. I did not rebuild my health by chasing symptoms. But rather I built a strong foundation. Adding boron helps you hold on to that magnesium. It’s like a booster pack for the magnesium,” said Kristen Bowen.

Kristen Bowen says boron helps you hold magnesium in your cells. If you’re experiencing the benefits of magnesium, but you have to soak all the time, you may have a boron deficiency.

“Boron gives the cell wall flexibility. And the cell wall is like your brain. It’s what communicates the information in your body. If you don’t have enough boron, you are stopping the communication at the cellular level,” Kristen Bowen explains.

She adds, “Boron can also help bring the inflammation markers down and help regulate the inflammation in your body which is attached to your pain level. It also helps your pancreas balance blood sugars.”

In different areas of the world where there is naturally occurring boron, Kristen Bowen reveals that cancer cases are lower proving the importance of this trace mineral in preventing disease.

“Boron works through the parathyroid and helps re-mineralize the bones. But a lot of women will have hormone problems when they add boron,” said Kristen Bowen. “The missing component is cortisol. It is stress. I call it the magnesium mindset.”

Recognizing Our Power

Kristen Bowen believes we have to recognize how powerful we are. Many of us are “addicted” to our stress and use cortisol to get us through the day. When we produce excess cortisol, it is giving us a short-term fix. It gives us a little bit of energy and clears our head in the short term.

“But one of the long-term consequences of living off of our stress hormones is that it robs us of the building blocks that our body uses to make progesterone and estrogen,” said Kristen Bowen.

She adds, “If we have some cortisol issues, we need to be a little slower adding boron until we have soaked in magnesium long enough. Because that will help you get on top of the cortisol issues so when you do add that boron, you’re not having issues with your hormones as well.”

Maximizing Boron

Kristen gets her boron from the all-natural, 100% boron, cleaning agent “20 Mule Team Borax”, Kristen Bowen recommends taking about one liter of water and mixing it with a rounded teaspoon, shake and let it dissolve before taking it.

“One teaspoon equals three milligrams of boron approximately. So, I take anywhere from 18 to 24 milligrams a day. But if you chose to take your boron this way, make sure you buy the one that is without the fragrance and 100% all natural. That is why I use 20 MuleTeam Borax, which is 100% boron, the same quality they put in supplements for a fraction of the cost,” said Kristen Bowen.

She adds, “Because there are some places in the world where the 20 Mule Team Borax has fragrance added. That’s not appropriate to ingest. Best thing to do is take the 30-day challenge where you get to full cell-saturation of magnesium before you add the boron.”

Kristen says you can also get boron from foods like raisins, almonds, dried apricots, and chia seeds, as long as those foods were grown in boron-rich soil. If you take time to gel chia seeds, it creates a polysaccharide and helps mops up excess cortisol in the body. It is also a food source of B vitamins which is crucial to holding magnesium in the cell.


If you have PCOS, Kristen Bowen suggests not to take boron first because it’s just going to aggravate the problem. Instead, you have to do more to support decreasing cortisol and improving magnesium levels. And that’s where chia seeds come in to play.

When chia seeds are properly soaked, it will help mop up some of that excess cortisol, and the polysaccharides help as well. So, when your body is ready to handle boron, it’s not going to throw you into converting testosterone at a faster pace.


According to Kristen Bowen, every time we have that cortisol spike, it strengthens the biofilm that coats the lining of the gut and harbors harmful candida. The stronger the biofilm is, the harder it is to break the candida down and rid ourselves of unwanted parasites.

“Magnesium is good at helping the body to clean out the candida-rich toxic biofilm. If you have had extra cortisol and a candida issue, the magnesium breaks down the biofilm,” Kristen Bowen said.

Vitamin C

It’s also essential to understand vitamin C dosing. No one can tell you how much you need. It’s different for everybody because the strength of your adrenals determines it.

Kristen shares that you can only hold as much vitamin C as your adrenals are strong. The stronger your adrenals, the better your body can utilize vitamin C. When we are under toxic-stress our body burns through our vitamins and minerals faster, leading to deficiency and furthermore, illness.

Most people believe that the RDA on the vitamin bottle is the maximum dose we should ever take of vitamins C. However, it is the MINIMUM required amount of vitamin C to barely stave off disease.

If you want to be barely diseased than only take the daily RDA amount, we want TRUE HEALTH; so we are going to take more vitamin C than the minimin RDA of 50mg!

Dr. Mathius Rath studied under the famous Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling, and after his death continued his research on the importance of vitamin C and amino acid proteins. Dr. Rath has several free ebooks available including one called Why Animals Don’t Get Heart Attacks, and People Do where he outlines fascinating discoveries on how vitamin C works at preventing and reversing cardiovascular disease.

An interesting fact that he points out about animals is most of them produce their own vitamin C, much like we produce our own vitamin D internally. A goat will have about 16 grams of vitamin C coursing through its bloodstream at any given time while a wolf will have 32 grams.

If a human adult is twice or three times the size and weight of a wolf, how many grams of vitamin C do you think we require for optimal health and healing? The US Government says only 50 mg, while researches like Dr. Mathius Rath and Linus Pauling say we need many grams of vitamin C each day. If we are not getting it from eating a variety of fresh fruit and vegetables, then we need to consider supplementing our vitamin C from a whole foods source.

Acerola Cherry Powder for Vitamin C

Kristen Bowen experienced a miraculous recovery in her gut health when she added Acerola Cherry Powder to her protocol. Acerola Cherries are naturally high in vitamin C, and when made into a powder it becomes a potent vitamin C supplement that is bioavailable and easily absorbed and utilized by the body. You can buy her Acerola Cherry Powder from her site and be sure to use the coupon code LTH for 10% off.

Kristen Bowen’s favorite way to take Acerola Cherry Powder is mixing a drink that has some coconut water, grapefruit juice, and good green algae. My favorite algae is from Be sure to use coupon code LTH for 20% off!

Toxic Stress

The abuse Kristen Bowen went through as a young girl set the stage for high cortisol levels later in life. A groundbreaking study conducted in 1995 by the Centers for Disease Control and the Kaiser Permanente health care organization in California looked at the relationship between Adverse Childhood Experiences and overall outcomes in life. They found that the more ACEs we experience will set the stage for what has been now coined as “toxic stress” later in life.

Toxic stress is when the body is overreacting to everyday occurrences as if they are threats. A door slams, a car alarm goes off, someone yells, these sounds are enough to set off the fight or flight response in the body. For someone who went through Adverse Childhood Experiences, those sounds feel like dangerous threats and spiral their body into extreme stress. All day long they are overstimulated by little sounds or sights their body perceives as threats.

If you know you had ACEs as a child, it is imperative that you take action now to lower and manage your stress; otherwise, this study concluded that you have a greater the chance of heart disease, diabetes, obesity, depression, substance abuse, smoking, poor academic achievement, and early death.

The good news is there are many things you can do to be proactive to mitigate the effects that ACEs have on your stress levels, including soaking in magnesium!

It was fun to hear Kristen share that as women, as the matriarch, as the mom and wife, we set the tone for digestion at the table. It is set by the female who sits at the table. Our mood affects digestion for everyone dining with us! If we are in a state of relaxation and joy, everyone can relax and digest and absorb the nutrients in their food. If we bring our stress to the table, or worse, all eat in front of the TV, we are setting up our body and the health of our family to fail. We cannot properly digest and absorb the nutrients in our food when under a state of stress.

“To create low maintenance health, we have to take into account and claim how powerful we are. For me it was a real mindset shift in helping to re-wire my brain,” said Kristen Bowen.


Remember how I said this interview was a roller coaster of health information? Well, the biggest plot twist was when Kristen shared about her experience with expelling parasites from her body.

At some point in her recovery, Kristen realized she had hit a wall. All of her symptoms pointed towards parasites.

For over a year Kristen Bowen performed expensive parasites cleanses with little results. Eventually, she stopped taking the abrasive herbs designed to kill the worms, amoebas, and flukes she felt was causing her symptoms and instead turned to study further about the gut’s biofilm and what she could do to support her body in making her gut an inhospitable hotel for those unwanted pests.

That is when she discovered the before mentioned Acerola Cherry Powder, and it’s benefits to help aid her in making the parasites leave her body.

After adding the Acerola Cherry Powder to her daily protocol, along with soaking in her magnesium and taking boron, she began to expell parasites from her body!

However, each month they would return only to be expelled again. She did her research and found out that when we have low stomach acid the parasites can reproduce each month and continue to thrive.

Kristen tried taking HCl supplements, but they did not agree with her. Instead, she looked to natural ways to stimulate and support her stomach to make healthy acid. She found that drinking fresh celery juice did the trick!

“I use 16 ounces of celery juice on an empty stomach every morning,” said Kristen Bowen.

Parasite Release

Kristen Bowen believes that on the subject of a parasite release, it’s not just about checking off a list and making sure you got all the supplements. You must put that mindset and be willing to take your power back.

“Because your energy goes up, your ability to communicate goes up; your ability to follow through with ideas fills up. We have to be willing to increase our accountability,” said Kristen Bowen.

When Kristen Bowen experienced that parasite release and was able to figure out the need to build hydrochloric acid, walking away from the constant reproduction cycle happening, that’s when Kristen Bowen achieved low maintenance health.

“We are the CEO of our health and body! We don’t just lift ourselves. It is our gift. Our feminine gift is to lift others around us. Tapping back into that power is crucial,” said Kristen Bowen.

Living The Good Life Naturally

As a treat to Learn True Health listeners, Kristen Bowen is giving 10% off whenever you buy her products on her website. Just type the coupon code LTH at checkout. And for every jug of magnesium soak, Kristen Bowen includes a free jar of magnesium muscle cream for a limited time.

To those who have suggested that the magnesium soak be available in a powder or flake form, Kristen Bowen says the effectivity will be compromised.

“The purity, quality of the product and ability to get cell saturation is crucial. And flakes do not meet my standard. I would never sell anything that I’m not willing to use myself,” said Kristen Bowen.

However, Kristen Bowen says you can’t get the full cell saturation with the cream, but people do see more localized results. It cannot replace soaking, but it’s a beautiful spot treatment to relax muscles and decrease pain and inflammation.

Get Connected with Kristen Bowen:

Official Website


Facebook – Living the Good Life Naturally

Instagram – Kristen Bowen

Instagram – Living the Good Life Naturally

Recommended Reading by Kristen Bowen

Healing Is Voltage by Jerry L. Tennant 


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Living The Good Life Naturally – Kristen Bowen & Ashley James – #341

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Emily Becker And Ashley James

Natural remedies have been proven by numerous studies and testimonials to be effective especially when it comes to hair and skincare. Apart from healthy hair, having glowing skin is a positive outcome of being able to take care of your health. My guest Emily Becker dealt with hair loss or alopecia for several years. But she was able to correct that along with other health issues by using natural remedies.


Emily Becker was 17 years old then when she tried to dye her hair. A week after she colored her hair, she saw a patch. Emily Becker initially thought it was from chemicals and hair dye. But eventually, she felt like maybe it was something more. A few years after, the hair was growing, but it would fall out again. It still hadn’t dawned on her to try using natural remedies.

Fast forward a few years later, Emily Becker got married at 21 years old, and a few months after, all her hair fell out. That started her big search for natural remedies.

“I didn’t want to take the steroid creams and injections because of the side effects. And I had itchy parts all over my body. What I realized after a while, my hair on my body was also falling out,” recalls Emily Becker.

Turning A New Leaf

Then one day, Emily Becker heard a radio commercial for a doctor who does lectures around the United States. She was able to go to one of his, and it was life-changing.

The doctor asked Emily Becker some questions about her diet and bowel movement. Then he identified what she needed nutritionally.

“He wanted me to stop eating grains, wheat, rye, barley, and oats. Plus, he wanted me to take supplements and become gluten-free,” said Emily Becker. “Within two weeks, I noticed my body becoming itchy and noticed my hair growing again. It was life-changing because I was bald for a year and a half.”

She adds, “I had to go through all those emotions of watching my hair fall out. And I became depressed. Most of us who lost their hair go through the depression. Even the men that I’ve met and lost their hair, too.”

Dealing With Health Issues

Emily Becker became pregnant in January of 2013, but before that, she had an irregular menstrual period. And Emily Becker also had a miscarriage which was tough and heartbreaking. She had terrible mood swings, too.

“I believe that it was about 70% physiological. Looking back, I can almost feel in memory the changes as I was getting healthier. When I first changed my diet, I almost went into a rebellion stage. I was having withdrawals from the foods that I miss,” Emily Becker said.

Before her health improved, Emily Becker would get so upset with her fingers because her cuticles were so split. They would bleed. And Emily Becker would have tiny bumps all over her hands like warts. She also had night sweats, dry skin, and acne. Hence, she was so grateful to have worked with a doctor who wanted to make a more Holistic approach.

“The hardest part of switching my diet and everything else was trying to find the right stuff. It included the make-up and shampoo which I had to make sure there was no barley or anything like that. That’s when I started to look into making my products for myself,” said Emily Becker.

Starting The Business

The first thing Emily Becker ever made was a belly wrap to address cellulite—4 ounces of carrier oil, add a little lemongrass, grapeseed, lavender and just a tad of frankincense essential oils to stimulate skin cells to regrow and restore themselves. You rub the mixture onto your belly, wrap your belly using a food wrap and leave it on for about an hour. Emily Becker says it’s effective because she used it herself.

“Coconut oil is great, but I don’t like the greasy feeling of it. I only use it in my body lotions. I recommend shea butter which can moisturize and won’t have that greasy feeling,” Emily Becker said.

She adds, “It’s more healing than any butter out there because it has the highest healing properties. If you can find it raw, it’s even better. And the oil I like for my face is tamanu oil. It makes your skin glow.”

Expanding Her Product Range

Emily Becker never thought she’d start a business. She said making products was initially to help her my father-in-law find something he can put on his hives that weren’t a steroid.

“Even going through the Naturopathic route, he’s always struggled with hives. So, I made him a very basic shea butter and beeswax salve with those essential oils. The jar lasts two years,” Emily Becker shares.

Then Emily Becker mother-in-law started getting allergic. She had some favorite face products from a company that has products with natural ingredients in it. But it also has fillers and chemicals to preserve. So, Emily Becker made her a face cream made of shea butter.

“Eventually I made body lotion for some people for Christmas. Within a month or two, people started asking for it and offered to pay me. I started a small business making all-natural products that are truly natural,” said Emily Becker.

Emily Becker also made a skin salve for psoriasis, eczema and general skin damage. She makes it with the tea tree that she grows in my own home. Emily Becker infuses the tea tree with jojoba oil and blends that together to create a skin salve. She also mixes it with carrot seed and lavender essential oils.

Emily Becker’s daughter also helps her make a fire-shimmering lip gloss. It hydrates your lips, and it’s a beautiful shade of autumn red.

Like her lip gloss, Emily Becker’s natural deodorant, face cream, lip balm, hair mask, rollers, face mask, face serums, beard balms, body lotions, face cream without the essential oils are made with all-natural ingredients. She also doesn’t use water in her products. Instead, Emily Becker uses aloe vera juice.

Rhassoul Clay

Emily Becker says she uses rhassoul clay for her face and hair mask. Because when you use clay on your skin, it draws out the toxins.

Rhassoul clay is the densest type of clay.  Studies have shown that rhassoul clay will reduce dryness and flakiness. It will also improve the texture of your skin because of the minerals in it.

“If you have rhassoul clay in your hair mask, it’s like empowerment for your hair. It gives a full body texture and softness to it. Furthermore, it also helps lock curls. So, I use rhassoul clay for both my skin and hair mask,” Emily Becker said.

The hair mask comes in a little applicator. Emily Becker says to take the clay powder, put into applicator with a little bit of water. Shake it and squirt it into your scalp with the applicator.

Make sure your hair is combed all the way through and tie it up. Let the mask harden and do its work for 20 minutes and rinse. It rinses out pretty quick. And because it grabs all the oil and grime from your hair, you don’t need a shampoo or conditioner.

There are so many wonderful natural remedies on Emily Becker’s Etsy shop so make sure you check out the website. Rest assured, all her natural remedies contain no chemical ingredients and just as useful to address your various skin and hair problems.

“There’s hope, and you’re not alone. Just stick to the help you have. You can reach out to many people. If you want to hear from me, I’d love to hear from you. Just be patient, and you’re still beautiful,” Emily Becker said.


Emily Becker is not a doctor nor a scientist. She’s a mother and a homemaker. She also played video games for a living before getting pregnant. Limited on money and not willing to always be in the hands of the M.D., Emily Becker followed doctors, and N.D.’s that she trusted (Glidden, Fuchs, Mercola, Wallach. She has the giant Alternative Health reference book and spends tons of time researching including using

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Remedies By Emily

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Mitch Harb And Ashley James

I recently guested on the Easy Wins Podcast of Personal Trainer and Health Coach, Mitch Harb. The episode expounds on some easy wins towards weight loss and body transformation, as well as achievable daily habits to get giant results. So, read on to discover how easy wins can improve your overall health.

Turning Point

My Learn True Health podcast has been so fulfilling since it first launched in 2016. Today, the podcast surpassed four million downloads, and I feel blessed that my mission of helping people get their health back is taking off.

But it didn’t feel like easy wins were achievable during the lowest points in my life. I had many health struggles for years and was even bed-ridden at one point.

Eleven years ago, I met my husband. At the time, I was type 2 diabetic, I had chronic infections, chronic adrenal fatigue, and eventually had to quit my job. I also struggled with brain fog, infertility, PCOS, and depression because doctors told me I couldn’t have kids.

Dealing With Depression

What kept me together despite my health struggles was my mindset. Through my journey of learning true health, I learned NLP or neuro-linguistic programming and became a Master Practitioner and Trainer of it. I also learned timeline therapy, hypnosis, and coaching because I knew I needed to work on my emotions as well.

My depression was at its worse when my mom passed away in my 20s and my father followed shortly after. I was so depressed and broken when my mom died of cancer. I wanted to find a solution, come out the other side to be stronger and better. That’s why I discovered NLP.

While I felt like a prisoner of my own body, my spirit, mind, and mindset weren’t. That’s what kept me going. And that’s when I decided to pursue a career to help people.

Neuro-linguistic Programming

Neuro-linguistic Programming is a mixture of behavioral psychology and cognitive therapy. It’s an understanding of the conscious and unconscious mind. Back in the 60s, the creators looked around therapists who are getting outstanding results.  They created a system around what they do to replicate those excellent results.

Tony Robbins is a great example. He took the practitioner level with Richard Bandler and John Grinder who were the creators of Neuro-linguistic Programming. They allow you to shift your beliefs, mindset and emotional state, as well as let you change even your unconscious habits. The technique works, and you need to know when to use each method to help you.

Neuro-linguistic Programming is not deep hypnosis. There’s a light trance to guide the person to their aha moments and breakthroughs. But it’s not manipulative in a deep state of trance.

Find Solutions

Back in 2005, my health was getting worse and didn’t understand anything about nutrition or healing my body. Then I realized you have to set the intention of what you want. I wanted to find the answers to my help problems.

So, in 2008 when Netflix just started streaming documentaries, my husband and I started watching health documentaries. The first one we watched advised people to shop within the perimeter of the grocery store. In one week, we cut out all the junk food we were eating.

Food Choices

With a month of just eating meat, eggs and dairy, vegetables and fruits, my husband and I also went sugar-free and avoided processed foods. My chronic infections went away with a whole foods diet.

Years later, I came across a Naturopath who had an interesting way of explaining supplements, nutrition, and diet. Hence, I started following his recommendations. My diabetes went away in three months, as well as my chronic adrenal fatigue and brain fog.

Plus, my PCOS corrected itself. My infertility went away, and we now have a 4-year old boy conceived naturally. To think we tried conceiving for six years. It turned out; easy wins entailed doing diet and lifestyle changes.

Because of my success, I felt had to get this information out there. Hence, the Learn True Health Podcast was born. With over 300 episodes, we have interviewed experts. That’s why I love the mission of Mitch Harb. Because making easy wins is how I got my health back one little step at a time.

Minerals And Supplements

In 2011, when my husband and I intentionally went gluten-free, I lost 25 pounds of water weight in a month. I went down two ring sizes, and my husband went down two and a half ring sizes.

At this point, I realized that minerals are essential. Before I took supplements, I was hungry all the time because my body was craving minerals. Our cells need sixteen minerals to make insulin work with the cell.

One of the minerals is chromium, and the other is vanadium. They are trace minerals and the most important thing you can give to your body. We’re not getting it well in our diet anymore because of the farming process over the last hundreds of years.

Furthermore, we don’t mineralize the soil, and we don’t rotate the crops. Plus, pesticides like Monsanto’s Roundup is a chelator. As a result, they bind to the trace minerals in our soil, and they wash them away.

I don’t think I would have resolved all my health issues if I had only eaten healthy foods because I was so deficient in minerals. However, I’m not saying supplements are the answer. Supplements fill in the gaps, and sometimes that is the missing piece that puts the whole thing into place.

Sugar-free and Dairy-free

To be able to be sugar-free and dairy-free, you have to admit there’s an addictive component to dairy. Every dairy from every animal including humans has an addictive component to it because we have to make the calf or the baby want to suckle and drink the milk to survive.

But the problem is when we take the milk and concentrate it, it stimulates dopamine and all the feel-good hormones. It feels good to consume dairy, but 51% of the population can’t tolerate it because it comes from the immune system of another animal.

Sometimes our immune system reacts to it which can cause a lot of inflammation. So, for a month, try the elimination diet and observe the reaction of your body. Every month, eliminate one thing, do a test and reintroduce it. You can do a blood testing for this, but they’re not accurate.

Boosting Energy Levels

Balancing blood sugar gives you more energy. And drinking enough water is essential because if there’s a 5% reduction in our hydration, we have a 25 % reduction in our energy production.

On the other hand, B-vitamins are great which you can get from vegetables. But the best thing to boost energy levels is having a good sleep. Sleep hygiene also is a fantastic thing to look into like wearing blue-blocking glasses.

Blue-blocking glasses block the light from the blue light which mimics moon-based sun. It tricks your brain into thinking it’s not time to make melatonin or the sleep hormone. But when you wake up, get some sunlight directly on your eyeball because that burns away the melatonin and resets your sleeping rhythm.

Try also to stay away from caffeine. Caffeine is a replacement for sleep, and that will lead to adrenal burnout and exhaustion. Healthy sleep habits set you for healing mode and more energy to do more things. There is an adjustment period, but the rewards are more significant in the long run.


I eliminated twelve bad foods that this Naturopath recommended. Bad foods cause damage to the body and inflammation. So, I took away the foods that were harming me, filled my body with foods that are healing, took supplements for three years and then consulted my doctor to help me increase my healthy cholesterol.

My doctor determined I should get on some Chinese herbs. Then I finally got pregnant the next month. It’s a case-to-case basis so consult a health practitioner you can trust.

As for men, some studies show that the last 12 months of a man’s health goes into the health of their son. But the woman’s health is more important because the baby is living in her womb and living off the nutrients in the woman’s body. The reason why we have so many miscarriages is that the body is saying it cannot support the baby on a cellular level.

Traditional medicine is just starting to acknowledge this. Pharmaceutical medicine wants to suppress knowledge around Holistic Medicine. The best thing you can do to get pregnant is to prepare the body for over a year before conception. Take your supplements to make sure you’re getting all the minerals — 16 minerals and 12 amino acids.

Also, make sure to avoid eating crappy foods that cause inflammation and damage to your body. Avoid being exposed to chemicals and pesticides as well. Eat food that makes you feel good for days after. Then do a food and mood journal to get to know your body more.

An excellent book is Dirty Genes by Ben Lynch. The book gives a good understanding of how to support your body based on your genetics in terms of nutrition. Folate, iron or folic acid is good, but there are many other nutrients you need to support the body.

The Right Mindset

I have a technique I love to teach through my Free Your Anxiety webinar. Not only does it get to the root cause and eliminate anxiety, but it sets you back towards success.

The body and the mind create anxiety when we’re focusing on the things we don’t want to have and having it happen. Example, if you wake up in the morning with fear, procrastination, worry, and anxiety, these are all symptoms of the same problem. Then eventually your gut health suffers as well as your hormones. 

Negative thoughts also trigger stress mode and its robbing the body of resources because you’re taking the body out of healing mode. Instant survival mode exhausts your long-term resources. It can cause disease and will not help you heal. 

Try this simple technique:

  • Close your eyes.
  • Float 15 min past the successful completion of the event that you’re interested in completing.
  • Imagine yourself a year from now looking down on your life and look at it from the standpoint of success.

The whole point of this technique is that you have to make up a vision in your mind. Imagine yourself at a particular moment in time, and it is working out successfully. It’s what you want in your future.  A positive mindset is when a problem arises; you want to solve it from the logic brain and be calm and centered. Because ultimately, stress never helps you solve a problem.

Critical Thinking

We were raised to be victims of society. In any giant industry profiting from people being a certain way, there are very few institutions that want us to be free thinkers.

An excellent resource is John Gatto’s book, Weapons of Mass Instruction. He was a teacher who won outstanding awards. It talks about the history of our school system is designed to make good little factory workers. 

School systems systematically took critical thinking out of the educational system 150 years ago. It’s called the Trivium. It’s a 2500-year old system taught in Plato’s era. You can link to the Trivium Education website if you want to learn more about critical thinking.

Again, I want to emphasize that stress is not an emotion but getting rid of it is life-changing. You don’t feel stress. But instead you accumulate it, and your body snaps when you ignore the signs.

But you can cure yourself through easy wins. Bring stress down by laughing every day or do meditation. Doing five things every day that bring down stress are considered easy wins. Ultimately, find the things that bring you joy so you can achieve true health.

Get Connected With Mitch Harb!

Easy Wins Podcast

Easy Wins Website

Recommended Links:

Episode 57: Sleep Quality – James Swanwick

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Dirty Genes Book by Ben Lynch

Weapons of Mass Instruction Book by John Gatto

Trivium Education

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Easy Wins – Mitch Harb & Ashley James – #339

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Robyn Youkilis & Ashley James

Many of you have heard the power of intuition. That power of intuition we all have can also apply in eating intuitively to heal our gut and improve our digestive health. To explain how we can develop our intuition towards making the right food choices, my guest, Author of Thin From Within and The Go with Your Gut Way to Lose Weight, Robyn Youkilis will dive into that and more in this episode.

Ideal Figure

Robyn Youkilis’ journey began when she was just 13 years old. It was a time when her body started to have a defined shape. Hence, she started getting conscious especially because magazines featured women who supposedly had the ideal form.

It ended up that Robyn Youkilis thought there was something wrong with her body and that she needed to fix her body. Because of this, she started looking into the diet culture.

“At the same time, my mother was always an incredible cook, whipping up wonderful dishes. So, I always had a deep love and appreciation for food. However, it also led to the torment,” recalls Robyn Youkilis.

It eventually confused Robyn Youkilis through her teenage years until her 20s. But when she started dating her then boyfriend who is now her husband, Robyn Youkilis learned how to buy her food at the Farmer’s Market.

Turning Points

Another turning point was when Robyn Youkilis went to the Institute of Integrative Nutrition. She enrolled in the school as she started getting into cooking more for herself and her boyfriend. It was here when Robyn Youkilis made the connection between how she ate and how it was making her feel.

But the real turning point was when Robyn Youkilis and her husband talked about starting a family. Little by little, she shed more of that obsession and more of that unhealthy view of self. Robyn Youkilis eventually brought in more nourishing food, cooking for herself and connecting to who she already was.

Create Your Space

Robyn Youkilis’ job as a health practitioner and an individual is to create a little space. She advises people to create some support and some lightness around showing up for yourself in that change.

“Create a space so you can have this consistent conversation with yourself. When you have these little turning points along the way, they can serve you instead of taking you down,” Robyn Youkilis said.

She adds, “Everyone deserves to feel amazing in their body. And your body wants that for you. No matter what you feed it, your body will digest it for you. We can’t have our focus on so many different things. You have to think about it and feel it as well.”

Listening To Your Intuition

First, Robyn Youkilis says we must understand that it’s going to be a winding path and it may take some time. She usually likes to teach this practice to clients where you put one hand on your lower abdominal wall and let that go.

“A lot of us spend a lot of our day sucking it in, especially women. And it’s really about giving yourself a moment to breathe into that space. At that point, ask yourself what would make you feel most supported,” said Robyn Youkilis. 

She adds, “You have the answer already. Often, we’ll hear a little helpful voice from our intuition.” 

Robyn Youkilis says journaling is also good because it means your thoughts have space and they feel valid. You may not do anything with those thoughts. But just having a place for that helps, rather than turning to food to experience comfort, space or a place.

“In learning to listen to your intuition, you would learn to figure out what feels more supportive in a given situation,” Robyn Youkilis said. “For example, having a grounding practice like taking a bath when you go home for the day can help you feel supported instead of turning to food.”

Understanding Your Cravings

According to Robyn Youkilis, a healthy craving feels like it’s something nice to have. And a craving that you might want to gather a little more information on is one that feels like you have to have it.

There might be a nutritional deficiency going on there, or it might be something around your day. Ultimately, Robyn Youkilis says it takes little moments from our day where we can start to have that conversation more deeply with ourselves.

Eating Using Intuition

Robyn Youkilis loves all kinds of food. But it doesn’t have a grip on her because she says her diet now is much more supportive of her gut and her body.

“Focus on the gut because that is the center of your body. Our digestive system is responsible for so many things on even more than just digesting food,” explains Robyn Youkilis.

Having A Healthy Gut

A healthy gut better absorbs the nutrients from the food you’re eating. Robyn Youkilis believes you get more out of what you’re consuming. You’re going to feel better from that food. A healthy gut also means a happier you because 90% of our serotonin is produced in your gut. And 80% of our immune tissue is in our gut.

“Aside from the mental conversation going on, there’s a lot at play. Something that may serve you this month may be different next month,” said Robyn Youkilis. “So, know that there’s never going to be the one thing that’s going to fix all the things. It’s always going to be a lot of parts of this conversation.”

To have a healthy digestive system, Robyn Youkilis also reveals that it is ideal for releasing waste at least once a day.  She recommends a huge glass of water first thing in the morning and gives your system a chance to flush itself out. For others, it may be a dehydration issue for our colon.

Importance Of Hydration

Juicing organic celery first thing in the morning is quite trendy. Robyn Youkilis says there are some medicinal benefits, but she believes that part of the reason why it’s working so well for so many people is that it’s hydrating their body on a cellular level.

Robyn Youkilis says adding chia seeds to water is also helpful. Chia seeds act as a lubricant and essentially allow your organs and the cells of your body to integrate the hydration into your body. A pinch of Himalayan sea salt or lemon water can also help with hydration.

“The ultimate goal is to connect to our intuition more so that we can digest not just our food, but we can digest our lives,” said Robyn Youkilis.

Importance Of Chewing

Robyn Youkilis stresses that another important thing is how you chew your food. Take time to eat your food well. It’s a miracle worker.

“The science behind that is because our stomach does not have teeth. It wasn’t designed to break down whole chunks of food the way we usually do it,” Robyn Youkilis explained. 

Robyn Youkilis also says some foods are harder to digest like nuts, dried fruit or some leafy greens. That’s why raw, dense, leafy greens are going to cause a little bit of bloating or stomach upset. Red meat is also hard to break down.

Meal Prep

Meal prep for Robyn Youkilis means making some basics ahead of time. A lot of people take this further and meal prep specific meals. But in Robyn Youkilis’ book, she teaches readers first to boil an egg and roast two trays of vegetables.

“Prep your greens and keep in the fridge, ready to go. Once you have done these basic items, I also talk about a power parfait in the book. It’s like an amped up yogurt bowl so that you feel full longer,” said Robyn Youkilis.

Robyn Youkilis does meal preps for the week, and when it’s time to put it together, she will use a basic template. The Rule of Five Plates is part of what she teaches in her book.

“I would have the power parfait in the morning, mix and match based on this little light template for lunch. Dinner will be some prepped things. Keep it simple and get real with your meal prep. It’s about having these staples ready in the fridge,” advises Robyn Youkilis.

For me, the Panasonic infrared oven significantly made meal prep easier. The oven heats things fast like two to three minutes. I use glass containers without the lid. It heats up way more than a microwave would, so you have to use a mitt.

Rule Of Five Plates

Robyn Youkilis has a meal prep class showing how she meal preps and walks you through it. She does the templates from the Rule of Five Plates mostly for lunches.

One template is greens. Raw or steamed is fine. Mix up the greens. The next template is healthy fats like avocados, olive oil, butter, coconut oil or some good healthy fat. Sliced almonds or goat cheese is also good.

The third template is protein. Wild salmon, grass-fed beef, organic chicken, lentils, trout, sardines, smoked mussels are sustainable options. Know what you have and know what your resources are.

Number four is fermented foods. That is where the gut health comes in, and it’s going to be the food that helps you digest the other foods better. Fermented foods can be raw fermented sauerkraut, fermented carrots, radishes or kimchi.

“I have some recipes in the book that’s easy to do. Fermented food is rich in live probiotic bacteria which will feed on the good bacteria in your gut and create a happy, healthy microbiome,” Robyn Youkilis said.

The last template is a cooked vegetable. This is where the meal prep comes back into play. It could be anything from cubed sweet potatoes, roasted zucchini or roasted carrots. Ultimately, you can do so many different things using the templates.

“For dinner, you can have a bean pasta with some tuna and kale. And then I would eat some of my fermented radishes on the side,” said Robyn Youkilis. “I’m always thinking more greens, healthy fats and fermented food. Also, know when you need new inspiration to shift things up.”

She adds, “I don’t want you to feel bad about what you’re doing or not doing. You got this. Life is always changing, but you can do it. You are designed to thrive, heal and to feel good.”


Robyn Youkilis is changing the way thousands of women and men around the world relate with food, and she’s redefining what it means to eat and be healthy. 

Robyn Youkilis is a Certified Wellness Expert, TV personality, and author. She’s frequently featured as the go-to expert on The Today Show, in People Magazine, + Redbook. And she is the founder of her health coaching company Your Healthiest You. 

Robyn Youkilis has been featured by The Cooking Channel, The Wall Street Journal, Men’s Fitness, The Huffington Post, CBS News, and more. Known for her straightforward yet supportive coaching style, Robyn Youkilis helps clients break free of the craziness of dieting and connect to their truest and best selves-through practical action steps. 

Robyn Youkilis’ first book, Go with Your Gut: The Insider’s Guide to Banishing the Bloat with 75 Digestion-Friendly Recipes is now available in bookstores. 

Robyn Youkilis is changing the way thousands of women and men around the world relate with food and she’s redefining what it means to eat and be healthy. 

Robyn Youkilis is a Certified Wellness Expert, TV personality, and author. She’s frequently featured as the go-to expert on The Today Show, in People Magazine, + Redbook. And she is the founder of her health coaching company Your Healthiest You. 

Robyn Youkilis has been featured by The Cooking Channel, The Wall Street Journal, Men’s Fitness, The Huffington Post, CBS News, and more. Known for her straightforward yet supportive coaching style, Robyn Youkilis helps clients break free of the craziness of dieting and connect to their truest and best selves-through no-nonsense action steps. 

Robyn Youkilis’ first book, Go with Your Gut: The Insider’s Guide to Banishing the Bloat with 75 Digestion-Friendly Recipes is now available everywhere books are sold. 

Get Connected With Robyn Youkilis!

Official Website

The Chewing Challenge

Meal Prep Workshop

Books by Robyn Youkilis

Thin From Within Book

Go With Your Gut Book

Recommended Link:

Panasonic Infrared Oven

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Intuitive Eating – Robyn Youkilis & Ashley James – #338

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Nicole Davidsohn And Ashley James

Phytocannabinoid therapy can be significantly helpful if you’re looking into alternative ways of healing. I’m sure most of you have heard the benefits of hemp to address health issues. But surprisingly, whole plant hemp phytocannabinoid therapy can also heal pets. My guest Nicole Davidsohn has an exciting story to tell regarding phytocannabinoid therapy as well as educate us on the other healing benefits of this wonderful hemp herb.

Series Of Accidents

The Eva company story began in spring 2014 with a series of accidents. Eva founder Dane Kemp was in a near-death experience because of a car accident but still came to work. He did, however, suffer from post-concussion syndrome.

His partner and co-founder Nicole Davidsohn, on the other hand, was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Doctors initially thought it was a stomach flu. Even with a flu protocol it never stopped. Nicole Davidsohn was misdiagnosed. It was only after a colonoscopy that she discovered she had ulcerative colitis.

“The biggest thing I noticed with ulcerative colitis was fatigue. The way that it hurt my life was that I just wanted to sleep all day and I had no appetite,” shares Nicole Davidsohn.

Before Nicole Davidsohn was diagnosed, she was a raw vegan. After her diagnosis, Nicole Davidsohn was prohibited by her doctor to eat raw foods and vegetables. So, she ate boiled chicken and sweet potatoes to get back on track.

A few months later, Nicole Davidsohn fell on a flight of stairs. She ended up with misplaced ribs and extreme pain throughout her nervous system. Nicole Davidsohn still did a high-intensity workout class but felt worse after. Hence, she was rushed to the E.R., stopped going to work and eventually went into depression spiraled by her injuries.

Health Struggle

Weeks went by, and Nicole Davidsohn tried the medication the doctors gave her. The medicines were really strong which made Nicole Davidsohn sick. She slept a lot, avoided the sun and noise. Dane Kemp convinced her to move into their home in Baltimore so his mom could help take care of her, but Nicole Davidsohn’s condition didn’t improve.

One night, Dane Kemp suggested to Nicole Davidsohn that they go to Oaksterdam University in California. He initially wanted to take their cannabis seminar on the history of growing. It was timely because, in 2015, the industry was beginning to open up.



Nicole Davidsohn says cannabis helped Dane Kemp in the past with attention issues. But on the East Coast, it’s not easy to get. Even if Nicole Davidsohn had a medical card for her ulcerative colitis, it limited her to two grams per day of the only strain they had which was a blue dream. Blue Dream is a strain to get you thinking, be creative and invigorate your mind.

“You can’t just smoke any cannabis and get relief from it because you have to have the correct ratio of cannabinoids and terpenes to help you with your specific ailment. In D.C., the dispensary you go to is dependent on your address,” Nicole Davidsohn said.

Seeing An Opportunity

Because of this, Dane Kemp saw an opportunity and also saw a way to help people. Taking a seminar at Oaksterdam University, the couple learned so much about cannabis, cannabinoids, growing it, its history, starting a business, and learning about the industry.

Nicole Davidsohn also called up an old friend in California who gave her a bag of medical cannabis goodies like edibles, vapes, and joints including a type of caramel popcorn which contained THC. It was the first time she used cannabis as real medicine.

Nicole Davidsohn ate the popcorn at night and slept well. It did have Tetrahydrocannabinol or THC in it, but she wasn’t high when she went to class. Instead, she just used it after class. The THC popcorn ultimately made Nicole Davidsohn feel better.

Going back home to the East Coast, the couple did some preparations to move back to the West Coast to start a new life and begin healing holistically.

Cannabis Juice

When Nicole Davidsohn was in California, she had been studying the work of Dr. William Courtney who was famous for cannabis juice. She eventually wanted to grow her own vegan cannabis plant and juice it.

“So, I bought an aero garden, planted some seeds and started growing cannabis like a normal herb on the counter. When it was big enough, I stuck it in my juicer with some turmeric and ginger. It tasted great,” said Nicole Davidsohn.

Cannabis has acidic cannabinoids in its raw form. THC is THC-A, so it has a carbon molecule on it. Nicole Davidsohn says that for it to become psychoactive, or to make you feel high, you need to heat it to 220 degrees Fahrenheit for a certain amount of time.

“When you juice it, just like you would go outside and take a fresh apple off a tree, chop it up and put in your juicer. I would take the bud off the plant and put in the juicer,” Nicole Davidsohn said. “It extracts all the cannabinoids, terpenes and chlorophyll which is super healthy for you. You won’t get stoned.”

Effects of Juicing

First thing Nicole Davidsohn felt was that her eyes widened, and her brain cleared up. It gave her four to six hours of energy. One reason is that raw cannabis is full of nutrients. It’s also a complete protein with all the essential amino acids. It has a ton of vitamins and minerals, too.

“The reason why I started juicing was to help my brain recover, but it was also to help get my colitis back in remission,” revealed Nicole Davidsohn. “I think because I needed the nutrients, it started to slow my digestion and bring my body back to homeostasis instead of an inflamed state. It didn’t heal my post-concussion syndrome. I went to speech therapy for that.”

She adds, “Juicing is not the easiest thing in the world. I juice three times a week. But once I made a container of it, it last three days unless you vacuum seal it then it will last seven days. I wasn’t consistent at first. For the first year, I was juicing every month and taking other cannabinoids as well.”

Birth Of Eva

Starting the company Eva, they began as the first 100% comprehensively lab-tested dispensary delivery in Sonoma County. Both Dane Kemp and Nicole Davidsohn got familiar with the certificate of analysis on everything. Eventually, Eva was the only dispensary in California in 2015 to have their menu comprehensively third-party lab-tested.

“The juice inspired the capsules that we have. I made one called Better Brain which has Bacopa, Matcha and the whole hemp plant flower in it. The speech therapy plus the juice and Better Brain capsules helped my brain to heal,” revealed Nicole Davidsohn.

Mary The Dog

Mary was Nicole Davidsohn’s a Pit/Dalmatian mix who received a terminal lymphoma diagnosis in October 2016. She was given three months to live with or without chemotherapy.

Nicole Davidsohn was making the juice at the time and helping people with assorted health ailments. So, she thought of giving Mary the juice by incorporating it in her food. It was not long before Mary went from being fatigued to energized.

“We also bought some CBD oils and mixed it with the whole plant. They were raw oils. But Mary did not respond the same way compared to when she was given the juice,” recalled Nicole Davidsohn. “I think because the oil is fat-soluble, and it takes a lot longer to digest and be absorbed.”

Nicole Davidsohn continued to give Mary the juice with turmeric and ginger. The dog continued to stay energized and didn’t get sick. After Eva company developed Better Pet Relief for Mary’s cancer and arthritis, Mary’s cancer has gone into remission.

The capsules also help manage Mary’s arthritis. Aside from this, Nicole Davidsohn also adds a little bit of black pepper extract into Mary’s diet to help in the absorption.

Compatibility With Hemp

Nicole Davidsohn explains that we have an endocannabinoid system. Endo means inside. We already have receptors and cannabinoids in our body. And cannabinoids are also found in the plant cannabis. But when we’re stressed out, we make fewer cannabinoids naturally.

“When we take in external cannabinoids from hemp or cannabis, it’s like getting a multivitamin. So, it’s fulfilling that deficiency. I like to think of it as vitamins,” said Nicole Davidsohn. “When I think of the endocannabinoid system, I think like it’s just another set of receptors for a vitamin that we aren’t taking any more.”

She adds, “I believe we have an epidemic of what I call endocannabinoid deficiency syndrome. When people are deficient in making their natural cannabinoids, they feel so much better when they ingest CBD oil, Eva CBD capsules or edibles.”


First of all, Nicole Davidsohn says their capsules can’t cure, treat or manage any disease. For dementia, in particular, she suggests their product, Better Brain. Nicole Davidsohn also revealed that the element Bacopa was used in Ayurvedic medicine for thousands of years for dementia and there are studies behind it. But cannabis can also do that.

All of Eva’s capsules contain whole flowers, so everything is raw. And it is made of organic hemp flowers. It aims to clear the brain and give you that phytocannabinoid nutrient in case you’re deficient in it which could also be causing memory loss. Nicole Davidsohn again assures everyone that the capsules will not get you stoned.


According to Nicole Davidsohn, the capsules are formulated to last four hours. If you’re looking to last an entire day of super brain power, Nicole Davidsohn recommends taking one capsule when you wake up and another one in the afternoon.

“The formulas are based on research I did to find the best dose of Bacopa, cannabinoids, and Matcha green tea,” Nicole Davidsohn said. “Bacopa is also an adaptogenic stress reliever. People use it for stress relief, and they also use it for pain relief.”

Panic Attacks

For panic attacks, Nicole Davidsohn highly suggests their Better Mood product. It contains Valerian Root, Lemon Balm, and Hemp.

A little dose of Valerian Root helps you calm down. It’s used for insomnia, anxiety and increase GABA receptors. Nicole Davidsohn says Lemon Balm is safe even for kids. Many kids take Lemon Balm for anxiety and focus.

Pain Medication Addiction

Nicole Davidsohn says their formula may help someone with a pain medication addiction by employing phytocannabinoid therapy. As a person tapers off the hard pain drugs, Nicole Davidsohn suggests taking Better Relief Capsules. However, it is advisable to work with a doctor to help taper off the medications and increase the intake of raw cannabinoids with turmeric and ginger.

“Many studies have shown how CBD and whole plant hemp can reduce the side effects of withdrawal by nourishing the endocannabinoid system,” said Nicole Davidsohn. “If we’re able to supplement the body with phytocannabinoids, it would help people get off pain medications more quickly.”

Eva’s products are also safe for children because it is non-psychoactive. Nicole Davidsohn says all their capsules are whole herbs, whole plants, and raw vegan.

Better Brain and Better Mood Capsules can help children focus better and address their emotional issues like anxiety. Nicole Davidsohn also says that one of the big things that children can benefit from phytocannabinoid therapy is to help them reduce toxin overload. 

Full Spectrum

Full Spectrum would be including all of the cannabinoids and the naturally present terpenes in the plant. Nicole Davidsohn says you can get a Full Spectrum extract which would be using the whole plant.

“Take a whole hemp flower, put it in some olive oil, shut it and put it in a dark place. Shake it once every day. Leave it in the dark cupboard for two weeks,” advises Nicole Davidsohn. “Then strain the oil out from the flower, and now you have a Full Spectrum Tincture.”

Full Spectrum means it contains all of the cannabinoids and all of the terpenes that are naturally present in the plant. Nicole Davidsohn reveals that their company uses therapeutic hemp, specifically grown to be phytocannabinoid-rich, organic and does not have any contaminants in it.

Eva Products

There have been many success stories of people who have benefitted from cannabis juice and Eva’s products. Other worthy products to check out from the Eva website is Better Sleep and Better Pet Relief. As mentioned previously, Better Pet Relief helped Nicole Davidsohn’s dog get on the road to recovery. 


I’m thrilled to announce that Nicole Davidsohn is generously giving away ten bottles of Eva’s herbal supplements. Go to the Learn True Health Facebook group to find out how you can win. Each of the ten winners will have the chance to choose the formula of their preference so make sure you check out our group. 

Eva is also giving a 20% discount to Learn True Health listeners. Just type in the LTH discount code upon checkout at the Eva website.

“I am grateful being on a podcast speaking about Eva, our goals and our passion and our love for the world. And I’m grateful for this show and listeners who listen with an open mind and are here to learn. The goal is to have a happier and healthier world than where we are now,” said Nicole Davidsohn.


Nicole Davidsohn was born in Los Angeles, CA and raised in Lancaster, CA.  She grew up the youngest of 4 becoming the first in her family to attend college at Antelope Valley Community College before transferring to UC Irvine on a full scholarship.  

Nicole Davidsohn received her BA in Psychology in 2011 and later received national certifications in personal training and nutrition consoling. In 2015, she left the world of personal training and fitness to attend Oaksterdam University before moving west to start Eva with Dane Kemp.

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Whole Plant Hemp Phytocannabinoid Therapy – Nicole Davidsohn & Ashley James – #337

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