Dr. Joel Wallach and Ashley James


  • Diseases that are a result of nutrient deficiency
  • The commonality of those living in the blue zones
  • Why we need to stop eating barley, wheat, rye, and oats
  • Why we need to avoid oil


Is eating fruits and vegetables enough to get all the nutrients needed by our bodies? In this episode, Dr. Joel Wallach talks about different diseases that were thought of as genetically transmitted but were actually nutrient deficiencies. He also shares success stories of patients that got healed from their diseases by being on his protocol.



Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Today I’m interviewing my hero, Dr. Joel Wallach. He is the reason why I no longer have type 2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and infertility and why my husband and I naturally conceived our son after six years of trying. His approach to natural medicine and healing the body with the 90 essential nutrients is absolutely revolutionary but also comes from years and years of research.

I’m so excited for you to hear his information. Every time I hear him, I learn more and more. I’ve been following him. He’s been mentoring me since 2011. Learning from him, it is such a trip because he regularly helps people reverse diseases even to the point where they’re on heart transplant list, kidney transplant list, or they’re on their deathbed. I’ve seen him help people who were told by their doctors that they just needed to go home and die, that there was nothing left for them. I’ve seen him reverse so many diseases and help people get back to 100% health, so I’m very excited for you to learn from him today.

As you’re listening, if you’d like to buy the supplements that he has developed and he recommends, please go to takeyoursupplements.com, that’s takeyoursupplements.com. You fill out the form and a health coach that’s trained in Dr. Wallach’s protocols will help you pick out the right supplements for you based on your symptoms, your nutritional needs, and based on the Dr. Wallach protocol that would best suit you. The body responds so quickly when you fill in the nutrient deficiencies, when you fill in those gaps where your diet has been missing certain key minerals especially trace minerals because it’s so hard to secure all of the 90 essential nutrients in a diet, no matter how healthy we eat. That’s something that Dr. Wallach addresses in today’s interview. Go to takeyoursupplements.com and try Dr. Wallach’s protocol.

I have seen the most amazing results. In less than 30 days, people say they have better energy, more mental clarity, and better sleep, but beyond that, people’s blood sugar stabilizes, their mood stabilizes, and blood pressure stabilizes. I have seen people reverse conditions. I had a friend who had essential tremor, his hands shook his entire life, and that went away within days. I had another friend who had skin tags over his whole body. The skin tags fell off. I have known several men reverse erectile dysfunction with his protocol.

He has protocols for filling in the nutrient deficiencies, filling in those nutrient gaps in our diet, supporting every cell in the body with 90 essential nutrients, and eliminating certain foods that harm the body so that we can optimize health at any age and at any weight. The whole program is actually designed based on body weight so you’re making sure you’re getting the right supplements for you at the right dosage for what your body needs.

I really look forward to hearing from you. As you’re on the protocol, if you’d like to share with me how it’s going for you, you can email me [email protected]. You can also join the Facebook group and share with us there. There are already some listeners who have shared their incredible experiences by adding these supplements to their life. You can’t out-supplement a bad diet. You can’t out-supplement unhealthy habits. We have to focus on a holistic way of life meaning you have to look at every aspect of life, but we also can’t exercise and eat healthy and only do those two things and expect optimal health because if we have a nutrient deficiency, even in a healthy diet, our body is still missing something.

This is one of the key components to optimal health is supplementing to make sure that we don’t have nutrient deficiency. We have to make sure that our supplements are high quality, that they’re bioavailable, the body can absorb them and utilize them, and that they’re plant-derived. That they’re not chemically man-made. That’s all the things that takeyoursupplements.com provides.

Awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener. I’m really excited for you to hear today’s interview especially because Dr. Wallach is my hero. I’ve been wanting to interview him for years and our schedules aligned, so it just became the perfect time for me to have him on the show. I hope to have him on the show again in the future. I also recommend reading his books. They’re amazing. Please check out his books. The links to his books will be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. Awesome. Have yourself an excellent rest of your day and enjoy today’s interview.


Photo by K15 Photos on Unsplash


[00:04:53] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 435. I am so excited to have Dr. Wallach on the show today. You have been my biggest hero in the holistic health space. Because of you I no longer suffer from diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and infertility. Because of you, I was able to conceive naturally our son who’s healthy and he’s five years old. You’re the one that got me so excited about health that I started my podcast four years ago. We have over seven million downloads and over 430 interviews.


[00:05:38] Dr. Joel Wallach: Well, thank you for the kind testimony.


[00:05:40] Ashley James: What I’m excited about is that you’re here today to share with all of my listeners that are wanting to seek true health and you’re here to share with them what I learned from you to end disease in my life. I’m so excited that they’re going to learn from you today how they can end disease and how they can reverse and prevent disease. Welcome to the show.


[00:06:01] Dr. Joel Wallach: Again, thank you so very, very much, Ashley. I appreciate your hospitality.


[00:06:05] Ashley James: Dr. Wallach, I love your story. Can you tell us a little bit about your research that led you to discover the cause and cure for 900 diseases?


[00:06:13] Dr. Joel Wallach: To make a long story short, when I graduated high school—I’m leaving out my personal stuff, which will take 15-20 minutes. When I graduated high school in 1958, I already knew that the medical system was in the wrong direction because I grew up on a farm. We didn’t have any of the diseases in the farm animals that people had because we were giving supplements to animals that prevented and reversed those diseases. We didn’t have any health insurance for them so it was much more economical to prevent and reverse them with supplements than it was to wait until they got sick and then call a veterinarian, pay a veterinarian, go broke, and sell your farm.

When I graduated from high school in 1958, I went to an agricultural school because I wanted to get a degree in agriculture. Halfway through that tried preventive medicine so got into veterinary school. I was working part-time because I had to work my way through, didn’t have a lot of money so I had to work my way through and I was working part-time for the pathology department. I realized there were so many, many things that were so simple but people weren’t being told the whole truth.

In 1964, I graduated in the University of Missouri. I had my degree in agriculture, my major was an animal husbandry nutrition. My minor is in field crops and soils. I had my veterinary degree at the time. I was halfway through my degree in pathology so I was going to Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa to finish my degree in pathology. As a high school kid, I had worked with Marlin Perkins the old Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom show because I was a farm kid and didn’t mind throwing manure out of stalls of animals in the zoo and stuff like that.

He kind of followed me a little bit. He wrote me a letter and said, “Look, Wallach, I need you to go to Africa for a couple of years and work on the white rhino conservation project. When it’s over, you come back. I can get you back into graduate school if that’s what you wanted. I can get you a job in the zoo whatever you.” You can’t refuse Marlin Perkins from Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom.

I went to Africa and two years into it, I had caught 200 white rhino and shipped them back here. If you see a white rhino in a wild animal park or zoo, it’s either one that I caught her offsprings or the ones that I caught. At the time, there was only 470 left of the southern raised white rhino south of the Zambezi River. Today there’s 25,000 because of the game parks we established, trained people, caught the animals up north, brought them and put them in the Ranger parks, and stuff like that. I’m very, very proud of that.

Two years into that, I was prepared to stay in Africa forever, Ashley. I was having the time of my life living out in the bush, eating wild antelope and stuff like that, and fish and just working on conservation projects, but I came back here at again, Perkin’s invitation. He says, “Look, Wallach, your work when you were doing your pathology stuff I got a $25 million grant using your research papers. I want you to come back and be the pathologist on this project.

We got this $25 million grant. This was April of 1967. I don’t know if it’ll be two years, five years, ten years or what, but I needed you to be a pathologist. I want you to find the diseases that are caused by pollution that zoo animals are sensitive to in the big cities and people who live around the zoos are sensitive to. When the zoo animals start dying from the pollution we know to evacuate the city, so I want you to do it.” You can’t refuse Marlin Perkins. I came back in April 1967 to be his pathologist on the project.

To make a long story short, a 10-year project, I did 20,000 autopsies. It was 17,000 some change of over 454 species of zoo animals, 3,000 humans, and 20 million chemistries. I learned and published in a book, which is my thesis of this whole project. The thesis represents the 17,000 autopsies in these 454 species of animals, 8,000 human autopsies. They’re in another book called Epigenetics. Anyway, to make a long story short, what I found out was none of the zoo animals died of pollution, none of the human beings living within a 10-mile radius of the zoos died of pollution, there were no genetically transmitted diseases, and there were no genetically transmitted birth defects.

It was driving everybody crazy. That’s how all of this started. When that was over, I went to work at Yerkes Primate Center with NASA in Atlanta, Georgia and worked at the medical school there as a pathologist at Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia. I ran into the first non-human case of cystic fibrosis, proved it was not genetic, got it published, and they fired me because everybody knew psittacosis was the disease that’s a classic example of a genetically transmitted disease. I purposely saved tissue, blood, and all kinds of stuff so you can do your own look yourself and see if your results match mine. No, you’re fired.

That’s when I went back to school and became a Naturopathic physician in Portland, Oregon 1978. I was teaching for seven years pathology and clinical medicine. I graduated in 1982 and been treating people nutritionally for something like 900 different diseases using nutrients for 72 years.


[00:11:37] Ashley James: When you discovered that cystic fibrosis in the rhesus monkey was not genetically transferred but it was caused by something else, what was it caused by and why were you fired?


[00:11:52] Dr. Joel Wallach: First of all, I sent tissues on the slide, delivering the pancreas in the lungs, to experts in cystic fibrosis in the big children’s hospitals around the world, 10 of them. They all sent back with a little note saying this is a perfect example of cystic fibrosis. Thank you. I didn’t tell them it was from a monkey, but I had it all on their letterhead. I then put together my paper and brought it to the [inaudible 00:12:17] at Yerkes Primate Center and also at the medical school in Atlanta, Georgia.

They were so, which I say, involved with genetics. They still are. Medical doctors, everything’s a genetic disease, right? Back then they didn’t want to be embarrassed and so they fired. It was easier to fire me because I was just a veterinarian at the time, I wasn’t a Naturopathic physician yet. I was just a veterinarian, so they fired me to save their faces is what it amounted to.

A couple of years later I found the contravention cure of muscular dystrophy, gave that to Jerry Lewis and he got so excited because I gave him 100 charts of kids that I had cured with muscular dystrophy, proven it wasn’t genetics—simple nutritional deficiency. He took it to the Muscular Dystrophy Association, they fired him and stopped the telethon. That’s why you haven’t heard anything about muscular dystrophy or cystic fibrosis since 1978.

My most recent thing, April 16, 2013, a federal judge ruled because we kept pushing the federal courts to put this nutrient in the baby formula because sudden infant death syndrome, it was a big lie. Only 2% of the babies that died of sudden infant death syndrome were in bed with their mothers when they died, 90% were not. None of them suffocated. When you redo the autopsy you could tell they didn’t suffocate. They died from what we call hypertrophic cardiomyopathy heart disease. I have done 1,700 autopsies on kids under the age of 10 that died of that one in Keshan province China. It’s called Keshan disease, the deficiency of a single nutrient cause a sudden heart attack in these kids. I did 1,700 autopsies in six weeks, so I’m an expert in that.

I knew that was causing because 200 of them would have been diagnosed with sudden infant death syndrome here in the United States. Got it all written up, the usual process. Nobody wanted it, nobody would publish it, and so I went to the federal courts and said, “Look, here’s 1,700 autopsies proving what I’m saying.” They couldn’t resist the evidence of 1,700 autopsy—all the slides, all the blood. They ruled that every manufacturer of baby formula had to put this nutrient in the baby formulas. A year later, it was September 13, 2014, just about a year later, the Charlotte Observer, which is the big newspaper in Charlotte North Carolina kind of like the New York Times for New York, front-page story—I mean this is a front-page story, big bold letters like third world war starting. It said we don’t know why but sudden infant death syndrome has vanished in North Carolina.


[00:15:04] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


[00:15:06] Dr. Joel Wallach: Three months later, the state of Missouri did the same thing in their headlines in their newspapers. Three months later every newspaper in America said we don’t know why but the death rate from sudden infant death syndrome has dropped significantly by 85%-95% in all states because we put that one nutrient in the baby formula. You haven’t heard any more about sudden infant death syndrome because it’s gone. It was a deficiency of a single nutrient. I’m the guy who figured out the cause, prevention, and cure of cystic fibrosis, muscular dystrophy, and I’m the guy that figured out the cause and prevention of crib death.


[00:15:36] Ashley James: Have you experienced pushback from the pharmaceutical industry? This is obviously going to affect their profits.


[00:15:42] Dr. Joel Wallach: What happens is, every time I get interviewed, they come along and want to have their words, say that I’m a quack, and all this kind of stuff—there’s no proof. I don’t know, 1,700 autopsies published through all these slides, lab data, and everything that seems pretty much like a hard proof to me. When I was working at the Yerkes Primate Center for NASA, when I got confirmation that that one monkey had the classic symptoms of cystic fibrosis, most people don’t know this but I got permission to do biopsies of liver, pancreas, and lungs of the 34 other baby monkeys in the same colony. All different mothers and fathers, not related in any way shape or form other than they were monkeys. They all were positive for cystic fibrosis. I knew it was an environmental thing.

It turned out that the gal who is in charge of that colony, she was a psychiatrist and she was doing nutritional studies in that colony where all 25 or 30 pairs of these monkeys, unrelated to each other, we’re having babies for her research. She was giving them different nutrients and she wasn’t giving them the standard monkey pellets. She was feeding them mixed grains and her idea of what vitamins and minerals were that’s why they all got cystic fibrosis.


[00:17:09] Ashley James: Because they had nutrient deficiency?


[00:17:12] Dr. Joel Wallach: That’s correct. It was just a simple nutritional deficiency artificially-created because they weren’t given the monkey pellets. Of course, her husband was in charge of the facility so he’s the guy who fired me because he didn’t want her embarrassed.


[00:17:26] Ashley James: What in humans in utero, what diseases are nutrient deficiencies? Everyone knows that folic acid or folate causes neuro tube defects.


[00:17:37] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yes. Here’s the deal, there are some birth defects that are caused by measles in the embryo early on, right? Thalidomide, which was a prescription drug for morning sickness would be given to women early in pregnancy and that caused 10,000 American babies to be born without arms and legs. There’s that but there are no genetic defects anymore because they aren’t any genetic defects. Here’s the experiment that proved it to most people. When I was working at the Brookfield Zoo in Chicago, a pair of wild-caught arctic foxes, they weren’t related, from two different parts of the Arctic but they were put together as a pair in the Brookfield Zoo. When they got to be a little rare of age they went into season and they got pregnant and had 10 babies. All ten babies were born with cleft palates.

The keepers called me because I’m doing the pathology up at the zoo hospital. They said, “Look, we’ve got 10 baby foxes with a genetic defect. I said uh-oh to myself, “Yeah, what is it?” “They all are born with the cleft palate the mothers and fathers. We want you to give them the needle with a drug to kill them because we can’t have animals or babies in the zoo that have genetic defects. They can only be perfect in a zoo.” I said, “Bring them up. Let me see them.” They brought me the babies and I say, “Okay, look, we’re not going to kill these babies because this is not a genetic defect. It is a simple nutritional deficiency during pregnancy. What did you feed the mother and father?”

“They’re meat eaters so we gave them horse meat.” I said, “Okay, did you give them any vitamins and minerals?” “No, they’re meat-eaters. We gave them horse meat.” I said, “That’s why they got this cleft palate because this is a defect of a single mineral. which is not found in horse meat. If you gave them the horse’s livers it would be okay but not the horse meat. What I want you to do is feed these babies with a puppy formula spent for [inaudible 00:19:29] puppies. I want you to give the mother and father just dog food. In six months’ time when these babies all come into heat and season, all that kind of stuff at six months of age, I want you to put one son with the mother, one daughter with the father, and the other brothers and sisters match them up. We’re going to really do some super inbreeding here. I want the mothers and fathers right now to start getting dog food, the babies are going to get this infant formula for milk replacer for puppies that are orphans. When they get to be six weeks you’re going to want solid food give them dog food.

A year later they call me up and said, “Okay doc. Between all these things we put together here, we have 100 babies from these two foxes.” “Are any of them have cleft palate?” “Nope, they’re all perfect.” I said, “I proved my point, didn’t I? They say, “Yes, you did.” I said, “I don’t want any more of these animals out there being fed just horse meat. They got to get vitamins and minerals. If it’s appropriate, wolves, coyotes, and foxes they need dog food and then there’s cat food for the small cats. We’ll figure out a diet and supplement program for the big cats, okay?”

That was published in scientific journals. It’s a big story in the book Rare Earth: Forbidden Cures. It’s the biggest story in the book Dead Doctors Don’t Lie. It’s the biggest story in several of my books with the pictures of many of these baby foxes with the cleft palates. All along the way, I’ve been able to prove what I’m saying. Now, when I go on an interview someplace, the doctors will call up and make a big hoo-ha. This guy’s a quack and you can’t prove what he’s saying. How come his thesis is in the Smithsonian Institute, is a national treasure? They hang up. They can’t even respond to that.


[00:21:16] Ashley James: You talked about curing Keshan’s disease in China. Can you tell us the story of Keshan’s disease and how you came to cure it?


[00:21:24] Dr. Joel Wallach: Keshan disease is again a deficiency of the single mineral. It causes sudden hypertrophic cardiomyopathy heart disease. 25,000 American kids died of that every year here under the age of 20. It’s the sudden heart death that afflicts young athletes in their teens and early 20s. You hear about this all the time, this teenager played football, played soccer, played baseball, hockey, rugby, whatever it was, or basketball and drops dead, that’s Keshan disease. It’s not some mystery.

If they would be giving these kids my sports drink, which has 100 nutrients in it including that one mineral and give them the 90 essential nutrients, guess what, none of these 25,000 kids would die anymore. But doctors on the sports medicine doctor here and we’re going to give them one of these things that have complete nutrition. You got 27 nutrients in it and it doesn’t have that nutrient it.

It turns out that my wife, Dr. Ma Lan, who is a medical doctor from China, I’m telling her about all the sudden heart deaths and she says, “That sounds like Keshan disease.” I said, “What’s that?” She got me all the English versions of publications of Keshan’s disease. Looking at the slides and everything, “Yeah, this is it.” She and her family, even yet today have a lot of power in China. This was published in scientific journals in three languages in 1990. They did the work in 1989 and it was published in 1990 in three scientific journals, two in Chinese, one in Mandarin, the other in Cantonese, the third one is in English is called the Journal of Trace Element Research. If anybody wants to check it out and see if I’m lying they can check it out. 1,700 autopsies have caused Keshan disease aka hypertrophic cardiomyopathy heart disease.

In fact, there was some famous athlete that just died here and he was in his 20s. He just died a couple of days ago from a heart attack. He was a basketball player or soccer player or whatever he just died due to the deficiency of a single mineral. I have people say, “Tell me what it is, tell me what it is.” I said, “No. You can’t run to Walgreens anymore because they’re shutting down, but you will run to someplace and try and buy it. You’ll give it to somebody and they’ll die. You’ll say Wallach lied.” No, because there are cofactors necessary for that one nutrient to work. Just like when people get osteoporosis the doctor says you have a calcium deficiency, take some Tums. That’s the doctor’s way to deal with osteoporosis is take Tums because it has some calcium carbonate in it. Let’s see what else does your bones need besides calcium—vitamin D3, sulfur, magnesium, copper, phosphorus, are you getting the picture?


[00:24:11] Ashley James: Definitely. You need the full complement of all the co-factors.


[00:24:17] Dr. Joel Wallach: Exactly. Ashley, do you know there’s only one class of prescription drugs that cures anything and that’s antibiotics. Antibiotics will kill bacteria and some fungus but guess what, all other prescription drugs are purposely designed to treat symptoms. I had so much pain from my arthritis for 10 years my doctor gave me the opioids in three minutes time my pain was going. I just love my doctor. Then two years later, sorry Francine, your disease kept progressing here even though you don’t have any pain. Now it’s time you have to have a double knee replacement, which is going to cost $50,000 per knee, it’s a good thing you have insurance. The doctor is able to send his two kids to college.


[00:25:07] Ashley James: But that mineral deficiency that led to the osteoporosis is affecting every soft tissue as well in all other organs and creating all kinds of symptoms as well. Symptoms that doctors will write off as normal. You have sleep problems, you have restless legs, that’s normal. Here, let me give you a drug for that.


[00:25:26] Dr. Joel Wallach: That’s correct. They send their kid to college with the money.


[00:25:31] Ashley James: But there are a lot of good MDs out there with really big hearts that really do want to help people. The problem is they’re not trained in anything that you’ve discovered. You discovered that these nutrient deficiencies are the cause of these diseases and that you’ve published this. I’ve seen you regularly reverse diseases even to the point where you’ve saved people from amputation and save people from being on the heart transplant list and kidney transplant list. You’ve reversed heart disease, kidney disease. You’ve reversed diabetes and save people from imputation.


[00:26:06] Dr. Joel Wallach: All of that. Ashley, we do this all the time. We take people who have been a diabetic for 30 years, in 30 days they’re not a diabetic. We take people who have been on kidney dialysis, six days a week they have not urinated in 10 years, in two weeks’ time they’re urinating, and six weeks’ time they’re off of dialysis because these are all simple nutritional deficiency disease. We change their diet, we put them on the 90 essential nutrients with the secret sauces for their particular disease and it all goes away.

I have a new book out it’s on the 25 diseases of the skull. When you have osteoporosis in the skull there are 25 different diseases that you would go to a neurologist for and have surgery to put implants in your middle ear and you have all kinds of eye surgeries, back surgeries, neck surgeries, arm surgeries, and all kinds of stuff. In fact, osteoporosis to the skull causes atrial fibrillation. Have you ever heard of atrial fibrillation?


[00:26:59] Ashley James: Yes.


[00:27:00] Dr. Joel Wallach: It’s the squeezing of the tenth cranial nerve, the vagus nerve which controls the rate and rhythm of the heart. You can also have degenerative disk disease and the first four thoracic vertebrae squeeze the vital nerves that control the rate and rhythm of the heart. There are two possibilities. I always speak for both of those and people who have afib. I’m going to tell you about a congressman from Baltimore Maryland, Elijah Cummings. Have you ever hear him?


[00:27:21] Ashley James: I have not.


[00:27:23] Dr. Joel Wallach: He was a black congressman from Baltimore, Maryland for 20 years, a very famous guy. A leader in the black caucuses everything else in Congress, 20 years. He gets afib, the cardiologists take him in, anesthetized him, cut him open, take a soldering iron, heat it up, and they were trying to kill the part of his heart muscle that was running away—setting off these irregular heartbeats. They killed him by doing what is called an ablation trying to kill a part of his heart muscle that causes the heart to beat irregularly. If he had come to me he would still be alive because all I would do was fix the osteoporosis of the skull, take the pressure off that tenth cranial nerve, and he wouldn’t have had the atrial fibrillation anymore.


[00:28:13] Ashley James: You’re the one that cured my husband’s afib. He was a candidate with a pacemaker. He has an acute afib for the third time, and you said put CM cream on his back. Obviously, continue taking the supplements, the minerals especially, hang upside down an inversion table and go to see your chiropractor. We followed your instructions to a tee. We also did ice packs on his back and his acute afib went away. What we figured out was anytime he lifts heavy weights it would compress his thoracic spine and he’d develop afib. It’s like clockwork.


[00:28:49] Dr. Joel Wallach: What happened was as his vertebrae get closer together compressing them, they smashed the roots of those spinal nerves that control the rate and rhythm of the heart.


[00:28:59] Ashley James: The cardiologist wanted to put him under and give him a peacemaker.


[00:29:04] Dr. Joel Wallach: Believe me, they would have done an ablation before they put in the pacemaker, which means kill part of the heart muscle. What did the doctors say when he didn’t have afib anymore?


[00:29:12] Ashley James: We didn’t go back to them.


[00:29:16] Dr. Joel Wallach: That’s why your husband is still alive. See, you’re not only beautiful, you’re smart.


[00:29:20] Ashley James: We listened to you because we’ve seen you help so many people. We’re just so grateful that we keep listening to you and learning from you.


[00:29:30] Dr. Joel Wallach: Thank you for passing on the information.


[00:29:32] Ashley James: Absolutely. It blows my mind. One client I had a few years ago she came to me for weight loss. She goes, “I’m sick. I’m 25 pounds overweight. I hate being overweight.” I said. “What happened? Tell me.” She goes, “Well, my doctor who’s my boss because I work at a clinic, and I’ve worked there for 20 years. My doctor has me on these steroids for my adult-onset asthma. The asthma is so bad I have to be on all these steroids and these steroids cause me to gain weight.” I said, “Wait a second, let’s back up. Dr. Wallach says this, this, and this about asthma.” We got her on the 90 central nutrients with extra the EFAs.

One month later she calls me up she goes, “My doctor took me off of all the meds. I don’t have any more asthma, but I’m calling because I want to help my niece who has ADD, my other family member who has this, and my other family member who has that.” I said, “Wait a second, you are off all your meds? You’ve known your doctor for 20 years because he’s also your boss. You’re off all your meds in one month and did he want to know why? Did he want to know how?” She said, “No.”

That’s happened over and over again. I’ve helped other people. You helped me reverse my type-2 diabetes. I’ve helped other people do the same and none of their doctors want to know how. They’ve had them on medicine for years like Metformin or insulin and then they finally get off of it because they’re healthy and the doctors don’t want to know. It’s so outside their realm. It’s so frustrating.


[00:30:58] Dr. Joel Wallach: See it’s not that simple. It’s a criminal act they’re doing because they don’t want to say no, it’s all my patients you get the same result that you did their income stream would stop. Their beautiful wife would divorce them, all their kids would get kicked out of school because they can’t pay their tuition anymore, and their dog would eat them. 


[00:31:22] Ashley James: They’re just stuck in this mentality of their training. Luckily, there are doctors who are breaking free from those who are becoming functional medicine practitioners, becoming Naturopaths, and focusing on nutrition.


[00:31:34] Dr. Joel Wallach: We’re keeping our fingers crossed. That’s why I started Youngevity because I knew that by myself I would not be able to have a major impact on the world, but this was too much good for too many people. We started a system—books and things, CDs, DVDs and so forth. When the audio cassette tapes first came out, my audio cassette tape Dead Doctors Don’t Lie was the first audio cassette tape to go viral.


[00:32:04] Ashley James: It did, it did. I was sitting in the backseat of my mother’s car when I was about 11 years old in 1991. My mom popped it in. I think I was at 11 or 12. My mom popped it in the tape player of the car, and I listened to your lecture over and over again. It completely changed my thinking. My parents had me see a Naturopath. I didn’t know what your name was but I heard your lecture, and I heard how important all these different nutrients were. Then I found you again back in 2011, I found you again. I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is the doctor I was listening to back when I was a kid that talked about the importance of nutrients.”

I’m sure the questions come up in listeners’ minds, why can’t I get all of my vitamins and minerals from food? I eat so healthily, I eat all kinds of fruits and vegetables, and I don’t eat junk food. Why can’t I get all my minerals from food? Why can’t I get all my vitamins from food?


[00:33:02] Dr. Joel Wallach: Okay. What if a mechanic were to say to you don’t waste your money by putting oil in your car? Put dirt from Texas or Oklahoma in your car. It’s only ten cents a quart, there’s bound to be some oil in it.


[00:33:12] Ashley James: Are we designed to get nutrients from food? Why are we getting nutrient deficient diseases?


[00:33:19] Dr. Joel Wallach: Where did God put the first human being?


[00:33:21] Ashley James: In the Garden of Eden?


[00:33:24] Dr. Joel Wallach: Eden. Why did God pick the Garden of Eden? Why didn’t he pick Oklahoma? Why didn’t he pick Maryland? Why didn’t he pick London? Here’s the deal. That’s the ultimate question. You asked the ultimate question, Ashley. I’m very proud of you. This is what we learned in the animal industry because we don’t have health insurance for animals. Here’s what we learned. I’ll ask you one more question, you’ll know the answer when I ask you this question. Is gold found equally all over the world?


[00:33:54] Ashley James: No. It’s in veins, it’s in ripples spread out unevenly.


[00:34:00] Dr. Joel Wallach: Okay, it’s found in veins. What about silver?


[00:34:05] Ashley James: It’s found in veins. It’s very hard to find these precious metals.


[00:34:10] Dr. Joel Wallach: What about iron?


[00:34:12] Ashley James: I love it. If you’re up in a plane and you’re flying across the country you can see sometimes their soil rich in iron and sometimes there isn’t. You can see the different colors.


[00:34:22] Dr. Joel Wallach: Okay. What about sulfur?


[00:34:31] Ashley James: I don’t know. I think sulfur is yellow. I think that creates a yellow tint to the earth. There’s nothing that’s equally or evenly distributed.


[00:34:41] Dr. Joel Wallach: You hit it right on the head there. Nutritional minerals, there’s not a single one of them that occurs in a uniform blanket across the earth. They all occur in veins like chocolate in chocolate [inaudible 00:34:52] ice cream. They all occur in veins like gold and silver. There are places where people live the longest. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that book and the movie Lost Horizon. The original book was written by James Hilton. He was a New York Times investigative reporter. New York Times sent him in the early 1930s, like 1930-1931. They sent him to China. He went to the Giltar Glacier in the Hunza district of China, which is halfway between mainland China and also Pakistan. The longest-lived people and it was a debate whether they were 250 years of age or 361 years of age.


[00:35:39] Ashley James: Wow.


[00:35:41] Dr. Joel Wallach: New York Times sent these guys, they got to be lying. There’s no way. They get their most vicious aggressive investigative reporter by the name of James Hilton. They send him there to investigate these people. He was able to document these ages. He wrote a report. It was such a response to the report when the New York Times published it, he wrote a novel called Lost Horizon. He invented the term Shangri-La for this mythical place where people lived forever. It was based on the true thing from the Hunza people in the Giltar glacier.

Then they made a movie out of it. It got more awards than any other movie ever. That book, Lost Horizon, is still the best-selling book ever with the number copies of the book. They made a movie that’s got the same title, Lost Horizon. The movie’s about an airplane crash of tourists in this place. Everybody is over 200 years of age and so forth. They figured out it has something to do with the soil, the water, and this and the other and so forth. That’s the whole gist of the story.


[00:36:49] Ashley James: Who figured out? Did you figure it out that they were getting minerals in their water from the glacier or the soil?


[00:36:55] Dr. Joel Wallach: They figured that out in 1933.


[00:36:57] Ashley James: Of course, there’s been talk of Blue Zones. I know you wrote a book about longevity that there are certain zones in the world like the Hunzas that live regularly past 100. They’re active, they’re working their farms, they’re fishing and they’re walking.


[00:37:12] Dr. Joel Wallach: They’re still working in the garden at 150, 160, and 170 years of age. There were all these newspaper releases in Europe and the United States. I have them in my book Rare Earth: Forbidden Cures with these guys in Hunza. They’re 168 years old, they’re out there still working in their garden, and don’t have any health problems at all. Well-documented by all the medical hospitals there in the regions and so forth. It’s like the gold of mind of nutritional minerals in those locations. Do you understand what I’m saying?


[00:37:43] Ashley James: Yeah. There’s a lot of talk about, for example, olive oil being the reason why those in Italy live so long. There’s a lot of authors out there that write books on longevity. They’ve decided the Mediterranean diet causes people to live a long life. Most of these places like the Okinawans eat a diet that contains less animal meat, for example. Then they’re saying maybe it’s less animal meat. They’re trying to make correlations, but what is the commonality between all the blue zones that really make the difference when it comes to stave off disease?


[00:38:25] Dr. Joel Wallach: Volcanic ash.


[00:38:27] Ashley James: Volcanic ash. Interesting.


[00:38:30] Dr. Joel Wallach: All these places where people live a long time, their water sources and their fields where they grow their crops are 20 feet deep volcanic ash since the beginning of time. All of these reefs are attached to volcanic island chains. Why do the reefs all start dying? Because we dammed up the rivers for electricity—hydroelectric. We blocked the volcanic ash from going down the rivers and feeding the algae, which the polyps that make the reefs ate, no more minerals, and that’s why the reefs died. Electricity is the reason that the reefs all died because they dammed up. Ashley, we have 1 million hydroelectric plants making electricity. All of them shut off the food supply to the reefs, and that’s why the reefs died. It is not carbon dioxide from fossil fuel.


[00:39:31] Ashley James: Some propose that it’s all of the pesticides or the herbicides that were—


[00:39:35] Dr. Joel Wallach: Because the environmentalists have an agenda. They will say anything they have to do to get a grant. But have you ever heard the scientific term crapola?


[00:39:49] Ashley James: I have not.


[00:39:51] Dr. Joel Wallach: Okay. Every place that there was a successful reef, it was always a reef that was attached to a volcanic island chain. Japan, Hawaii, Malaysia, and the Great Barrier Reef in Australia because all the water that came off that coast to feed the algae between the coast and the Great Barrier Reef were from the volcanic mountain chain right there in Queensland. When they put up the hydroelectric plants there to make electricity in the three rivers, there are three different rivers they put the dams in, they cut off the food supply to the Great Barrier Reef and that’s why the Great Barrier Reef is dying. If they will listen to me, in six weeks’ time the Great Barrier Reef will be back flourishing.


[00:40:35] Ashley James: We’re basically giving it a mineral deficiency because we’re taking away those minerals from that area?


[00:40:42] Dr. Joel Wallach: We’ve shut off the food supply to the algae, which the reefs ate. The reason why carbon dioxide is going up is because the algae are the things that ate the carbon dioxide, turn it into oxygen and carbon chains. Turn carbon dioxide into oxygen-carbon chains. Why aren’t the algae doing it now? The reason is, Ashley, those algae require 20 nutrients, 17 of which are minerals from the volcanic ash, and we shut off the food supply to those algae. They have enough nutrition to live, but they don’t have any nutrition to convert the carbon dioxide to oxygen and carbon chain. That piece is missing because they cut off that food supply from the volcanic ash.

I have a process. In fact, we actually have patents on now, we’ve been working on it, where we have augers that will auger the silt from behind the dams, around the dams, over the dams, or through the dams. They will dump that silt back in the water on the other side of the dam. We don’t have to destroy their electricity. We’ll just auger it on the other side of the dam, it’ll go down and feed the algae, and the reefs will come back.


[00:42:04] Ashley James: That’s amazing. That mirrors what’s happening with us, with our own bodies because you said the algae can live but they’re mineral deficient. They’re missing that silt because of the dams. They’re running only at like half 50% function, which is a lot of people are walking around mineral deficient and not fully functioning. Then they’re taking medication for the symptoms of mineral deficiency. It drives me crazy when people say they have restless leg syndrome because that’s a mineral deficiency. I get them on your minerals and within days they’re completely free of those symptoms and about 12 other symptoms they didn’t even realize they were mineral deficiencies. Yet their doctor had them on a ton of different drugs to mask these symptoms. The body is crying.


[00:42:55] Dr. Joel Wallach: He has his kids. He had to pay for their tuition for college.


[00:43:01] Ashley James: You helped a very famous athlete, Theo Ratliff. You helped him to get his career back. Because of that, you developed your sports drink, which I love your sports drink. It’s amazing. It’s full of nutrients. It’s not like just that sugary water that is sold in the grocery.


[00:43:18] Dr. Joel Wallach: Ashley, 100 nutrients. All other sports drinks are primarily caffeine and sugars. Energy drinks like Red Bull and all the other sports drink are just—


[00:43:28] Ashley James: Monster, Gatorade. They’re just sugar water with coloring. Yours is actually a healthy holistic sports drink.


[00:43:37] Dr. Joel Wallach: We have 100 nutrients in there—100 nutrients, Ashley. 78 minerals. No athlete who takes our sports drink is going to die from that Keshan disease, that hypertrophic cardiomyopathy heart disease.


[00:43:48] Ashley James: Your story of Theo Ratliff inspires me so much. Because of you, I’ve got to meet Theo and his beautiful wife, they’re amazing people.


[00:43:56] Dr. Joel Wallach: Wonderful couple.


[00:43:57] Ashley James: Yeah, they are. Can you tell us a bit about his story? Because of your supplements and your program, your protocol, you helped him to get his health back, end up being the famous Theo Ratliff that we know.


[00:44:12] Dr. Joel Wallach: He was in his early 20s and he had bone-on-bone arthritis in both knees arthritis. His cartilage popped off his right hip. He was playing for the Atlanta Hawks. Apparently, he pops off his right hip and he had surgically tacked down again. He also had a fracture in his left arm. They said, “Look, this guy’s too fragile to play ball. He’s got shooting skills but he’s too fragile to play pro ball.” They took his contract away from him. It was all in the newspaper and everything. We had one of our distributors there in Atlanta, Georgia contact him and said, “Hey, you need to let Dr. Wallach talk to you.” We talked over the phone. He said, “I’ll try anything.”

To make a long story short, we put him on our Healthy Bone and Joint Pack, but we also came up with our Rebounders for strength for him with all these 100 nutrients in it. Got him on a diet, cut him off all the bad foods including gluten, wheat, barley, rye, and oats to maximize absorption. In six months’ time, all his problems were gone, and he got his job back at the Atlanta Hawks. He made $30 million from the Atlanta Hawks before he moved on and made another $100 million with the other teams.


[00:45:10] Ashley James: Amazing, amazing. I heard a rumor that other very famous basketball players were drinking your sports drink even though they were being sponsored by Gatorade and other sports drink companies.


[00:45:25] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yeah, that happens.


[00:45:26] Ashley James: The fans started to notice, hey, Gatorade doesn’t have a color like that. They wanted to know what these sports teams were drinking. Do you know what sports teams are now using your supplements, do you know?


[00:45:39] Dr. Joel Wallach: There are players in all professional sports teams, all Olympic teams. There are players, maybe in some cases, not the whole team is drinking our sports drink, but there’s just about every serious athlete whether they’re semi-pro, Olympic, university, or professional they’re using our sports drink.


[00:45:59] Ashley James: Because you have such a deep understanding of where food comes from—the farm, understanding soil. Can you explain why is that soil is depleted of nutrients even more now than it has ever been?


[00:46:12] Dr. Joel Wallach: In some places, the nutrients have never been there at all. They’re not depleted, they just were never there. We have fertile ground and of course, the most expensive land and the land that people love to will to their kids and so forth was floodplains because these hilt from the runoff in the mountains, the minerals, would be reintroduced every spring during the floods to the land. But people who owned bottomland always had healthier cattle, healthier lambs, healthier pigs, healthier chickens, healthier kids, and they were more successful farmers because their yields were 50% or 75% higher than those trying to grow food out in the desert. Got it?

It was the re-introduction from the floods every year of those minerals in the silt. What dammed up the rivers? Hydroelectric plants shut off the food supply to these lands that get flooded every spring.


[00:47:15] Ashley James: The soil doesn’t get the remineralization every year. The Nile is a great example of that.


[00:47:23] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yeah. I don’t know how many dams are on the Nile. Just like the reefs, when you dam up the rivers for electricity—there are 1 million hydroelectric plants in the world, Ashley, 1 million. There are 2 million other dams that are for water conservation and irrigation. 3 million dams damming up the water. Guess what, they shut off the food supply to the land, they shut off the food supply to the ocean. That’s why the ocean is dying because 3 million dams damming up the rivers so the food supply is shut off to the ocean, the reefs, and the old bottomland that used to be the richest soil on earth.


[00:48:00] Ashley James: You have a product that farmers can use to remineralize their soil, and you’ve seen amazing results. I’ve seen amazing results. Even those who add the minerals to their chickens, for example, or add them to their cows. I’ve heard some amazing stories. Of course, the farmlands, crops grow stronger, healthier, and pest resistant because of the minerals in the soil.


[00:48:26] Dr. Joel Wallach: That’s correct. Of course, when they give our minerals, it has 78 minerals in there, the cows produce more milk—the same amount of grains are being fed. Of course, the chicken eggs are like 50% percent bigger. The hens their eyes get really big when they lay those eggs.


[00:48:48] Ashley James:  I love the minerals. I put it in my vegetable garden and I see great results, but I’ve also met some farmers who have used it. They’ve done experiments where they put it in one field but not in the other and you can see the difference. You can see right where they stopped laying down the minerals. Maybe you can explain it that the crops grow stronger but their pest-resistant because they’re stronger. Can you explain why is that?


[00:49:15] Dr. Joel Wallach: Ashley, not only pest resistant. Let’s say you have a nice couple. They live in Missouri and they have a kid. This kid he’s 22 years old and he’s 5’6”. His thing is playing pool on Friday nights at the bar, but they moved to Colorado. They live downstream from the mountains and their next son is 6’7” and plays basketball. One kid is 5’6” and the other kid is 6’7”, the same mom and dad.


[00:49:43] Ashley James: And that’s not genetics.


[00:49:45] Dr. Joel Wallach: No, that’s not genetics. That’s an embryo thing, the embryo got more nutrition. Also, as the kid was born, as he was growing up, he got more nutrition growing up because the food there had more minerals in it than this kid that was raised in Central Missouri.

 Photo by Vitalii Pavlyshynets on Unsplash


[00:50:01] Ashley James: Can you see that there are parts of the country where people are taller because of the nutrients they had access to?


[00:50:10] Dr. Joel Wallach: Of course. You have to see where are some of the tallest people in America from? They’re from around Denver, Colorado in the mountains. They’re from Phoenix, Arizona down in the valleys from the mountains. Even Texas is famous for tall handsome cowboys.


[00:50:28] Ashley James: Very interesting.


[00:50:30] Dr. Joel Wallach: There’s also a lot of oil, gold, and silver in Texas too.


[00:50:36] Ashley James: You mean the soil is more mineral-rich?


[00:50:39] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yeah, because it’s all from volcanic stuff in Texas, all the mountain ranges in Texas.


[00:50:45] Ashley James: You’ve talked about how we can prevent and reverse disease by making sure that we have the 90 essential nutrients. The majority of that is minerals. What are the common symptoms of mineral deficiency? The people that are walking around right now that they have a mineral deficiency and they don’t even know it.


[00:51:04] Dr. Joel Wallach: I give a lecture. I’m lecturing to say 500, 600 people in a room. Out of the five hundred people, 20 of them will have gray hair or white hair. I know those people have varicose veins, they even have aneurysms, they have all kinds of weird stuff going on in their tendons and ligaments because the same nutritional deficiency that causes white hair causes these other diseases. You get a breakdown of the elastic fibers in veins, you have varicose veins. You get a breakdown of the elastic fibers and arteries, you get aneurysms.

These things don’t just happen. Our whole families died of aneurysms. Yeah. You’ve got five generations living on the same farm. Does anybody supplement? No, no, no. They’d laugh at you if you took supplements. We just eat well because we grow our own food. There you go. Our grandma, in the old days, when she felt like she was having cravings whether it was during pregnancy or they just would have cravings, they didn’t have pretzels, potato chips, chocolate bars, and stuff like that 100 years ago. What did grandma eat when she had cravings? Wood ashes out of the woodstove.


[00:52:21] Ashley James: Oh, yes.


[00:52:23] Dr. Joel Wallach: What are wood ashes? They’re minerals. Little kids would eat wood ashes out of the woodstove. Little kids would go eat dirt out of the backyard. The little ones before they were let loose on their own in the backyard, they were in their cribs they would chew on that rail in the crib. When they chewed on the crib they called it cribbing. When the horses were mineral deficient, they’d chew on the top rail of their stall. Because they were doing what the little kids would do they called it cribbing just like the little kids would do. Since I put those minerals in the baby formulas, they don’t have to put the fiberglass shield on the crib rails anymore because kids aren’t eating the rails anymore since they have our minerals in all the baby formulas.


[00:53:05] Ashley James: Can you explain why type-2 diabetes is a mineral deficiency?


[00:53:09] Dr. Joel Wallach: Sure. Because the people who have type 2 diabetes are deficient of a single mineral. Because that mineral does not occur in a uniform blanket around across the earth. It occurs in veins like chocolate in chocolate [inaudible 00:53:20] ice cream. It occurs in veins like gold and silver.

Here’s the deal, why does one neighbor not get diabetes and the other neighbor get diabetes? Where are they getting their food from? One gets it from the A&P and the other one gets it from Costco. They have different sources of those nutrients, or maybe they have a brother who has a farm 100 miles away and that brothers bring them bushels of food every week. People who are getting a source of those minerals naturally in their food don’t get those diseases. If they move away from there to another place where that mineral is not there, it’s not in the food in the grocery stores, your kids will get those diseases. You might hear doctors say it’s delayed genetics. It had to be back in her family somewhere.


[00:54:04] Ashley James: When I got on your supplements, I had taken supplements before. I bought it at the grocery store. I remember I bought supplements at Trader Joe’s and I didn’t notice the difference. I was very reluctant because I thought I’ve spent money before on supplements and it didn’t work. Why is this going to be different? But there is a voice in me that said just go for it, just try this. I had hope in me. At the time, I had out of control blood sugar. Just raging out of control blood sugar. I was hungry all of the time. When we were driving somewhere going on an errand on the other side of town, I would say to my husband pull over at the next exit and go to the first drive-thru. I have to eat now. I cried. I would burst into tears. I’d feel like a prisoner of my own body. I was always hungry. My blood sugar was out of control. I also had chronic fatigue. I was exhausted all the time.

The first thing I did was I got on your trace mineral, your liquid trace mineral, and I got on the supplement that helps stabilize blood sugar because it has the minerals in it for that. That day, I had just taken a few shots of the liquid mineral. It was 2 PM and my husband turns to me and said, “You haven’t eaten anything yet today.” I burst into tears because I checked in with my body and I realized I wasn’t hungry. Because I was always waiting for hunger to eat because I was constantly hungry. After just taking a few shots of the minerals I didn’t have any hunger and it was 2 PM. I couldn’t believe it. I was bawling my eyes out. I thought there’s something to this, there’s something to this.

I kept taking it and on day five, now I normally couldn’t wake up until about 11:00 in the morning. I’d be so exhausted all day. I woke up on the fifth day on your liquid mineral supplements, I woke up at 5:00 in the morning fully wide-awake, bright-eyed, and bushy-tailed. I jumped on top of my husband, I looked him in the eyes and he says, “I don’t know who you are. You’re not the woman I married, but I’m keeping you.” I knew that there was something to this.

We called our two best friends, one lives in Toronto. You were giving a lecture that same day. I really believe it’s God’s divine intervention. God and came to help because that exact same day I called her up and I said, “Katherine Ann, I have to tell you about something. It’s amazing that’s happened to me this week. You have to go see Dr. Wallach.” She was in her 50s at the time, she had taken supplements her whole life. She had eaten healthy her whole life, but she was born with ichthyosis.


[00:56:45] Dr. Joel Wallach: Do you know what causes ichthyosis?


[00:56:47] Ashley James: I do now, but back then she was told it was genetic. She raised her hand and you said, “I bet you were told it was genetic.” She said, “Yes because my father has it and my niece has it.” You said, “The doctors were wrong,” and you told her exactly what to take. This is back in 2011, you told her exactly what to take. Three years later she has zero ichthyoses, and now, the only remnants are sometimes she gets slightly dry skin. That’s it, that’s it. Her body was covered in these giant chunks that would just fall off her and bleed and that was the ichthyosis, which means fish scales, but you reversed it. That was the most amazing thing because you proved, right there to us, that it wasn’t genetic but that her family, the whole family had a specific nutrient deficiency, it would express in that way.

You wrote a book called Epigenetics sharing that one family. If they had vitamin A deficiency, for example, would express in this way but a different family with different genetics, the genetics would express in maybe issues with the lungs, for example. You’ve shared that the root is nutrient deficiency, not genetics, but genetics express in different ways when you have nutrient deficiency.


[00:58:16] Dr. Joel Wallach: Okay. Here’s another piece to that. There’s a bottom line here, the thing that all the family members have a gluten problem. They’re eating gluten, oatmeal for breakfast so they couldn’t absorb the nutrient even if they were supplementing with that nutrient they’re going to be slow to respond, whereas if they were to get off of gluten and two weeks’ time it would be gone. Ichthyosis, psoriasis, eczema, dermatitis, rosacea, and asthma are all caused by the same deficiency. When you have a gluten problem, wheat, barley, rye, oats, that nutrient is extremely difficult to absorb. That’s why you see little kids with asthma, they got skin problems, they got eczema, dermatitis, and psoriasis. They’ll also have a bowel problem. These same people will have bowel problems. Will have irritable bowel syndrome, Crohn’s disease, diverticulitis, appendicitis, they’ll have things like colitis, and ileitis. You got it?

All those are the same disease when you look at them under the microscope. They’re only given different names because of different locations of major pain. They’re named by the location of the pain as opposed to what it looks like under the microscope because all those bowel diseases look the same under the microscope. They’re all the same. They’re the results of gluten consumption. You lose 97%, 98%, or 99% percent of the absorbent surface in your small intestines. So even if you supplement with that nutrient, you’re not going to get a full response or it’s going to take you three years to get a response that should take you only two weeks to get a response.


[00:59:55] Ashley James: Do you believe 100% of the world should avoid barley, wheat, rye, and oats?


[00:59:59] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yeah, wheat, barley, rye, and oats—the whole world should avoid it because that’s why 20 million people died in India 100 years ago from the Spanish flu. That’s why right now, Brazil got the worst cases of COVID-19. They had 1,000 people die last night in 26,000 new cases in Brazil last night because they’re all eating wheat.


[01:00:30] Ashley James: There’s a link between eating these grains and our immune health?


[01:00:36] Dr. Joel Wallach: Of course. You have to appreciate that you cannot absorb nutrients. Say you’re a three-year-old kid and you get the COVID-19 virus, you get minor common cold symptoms. After 50, 60, 70 years of eating wheat, barley, rye, and oats and now you’re, 65, 75, 85, and 90, you get the COVID you get really severe manifestations and even death. What’s the difference? The difference is over 30, 40, 50 years the people have been eating gluten—wheat, barley, rye, and oats—our intestinal lining disappeared. Even if they’re supplementing, they can’t absorb nutrients. Do you know what the immune system is, Ashley? Do you know what the immune system is made out of?


[01:01:20] Ashley James: White blood cells?


[01:01:22] Dr. Joel Wallach: White blood cells, right or the product of the immune system. The immune system is your bone marrow. When people, get to be 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90 years old, they have what’s called Wallach’s fibrous dysplasia. It used to be just called fibrous dysplasia, which doctors said was genetic. No, we’re calling it Wallach’s fibrous dysplasia because it’s not genetic. It’s a simple nutritional deficiency caused by gluten damaging the small intestine. It’s not able to absorb the nutrients so the bone marrow dies, can’t make white blood cells anymore to go kill and eat the virus, can’t make antibodies to go kill the virus, and can’t make red blood cells so these people are constantly anemic. They have to have transfusions all the time and B12 injections. They bleed to death because they can’t make platelets.

When the 20 million people in India died from the Spanish flu, they all died from hemorrhaging. They didn’t die from pneumonia. They all hemorrhaged to death because all their bone marrow was dead when the virus got them and they couldn’t make platelets, so they all bled to death. 20 million in six months.


[01:02:41] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


[01:02:42] Dr. Joel Wallach: It took me a lot of redoing all those autopsies to figure it out.


[01:02:45] Ashley James: That’s fascinating. Are there cultures that don’t eat barley, wheat, rye, and oats and they have stronger immune systems?


[01:02:53] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yes, they’re called Asians. They eat rice and sweet potatoes. Taiwan only has 23 deaths from COVID-19.


[01:03:04] Ashley James: That is fascinating. When I learned from you to remove barley, wheat, rye, and oats from our diet back in 2011, we did. We listened to you, we did exactly what you said although I don’t have celiac. A lot of people say oh I don’t have celiac, I don’t need to do that. I don’t have celiac either and I’ve taken allergy tests. I’m not allergic to it according to an allergy test, but when I removed barley, wheat, rye, and oats from my diet, I lost 25 pounds of water weight. My husband lost several as well.

He went down two ring sizes and I went down one and a half ring sizes. Our ring started flying off. We had our wedding rings custom-made for us and they started flying off our hands. We had to go get them resized back in 2011 and they’re still fitting perfectly. We had to go down that many ring sizes from cutting out barley, wheat, rye, and oats. It caused that much inflammation. We have pictures of us before and after going gluten-free but beyond that going oat-free as well. We don’t need those four grains because of everything we learned from you. Again, you don’t have to be allergic.


[01:04:14] Dr. Joel Wallach: Not an allergy.


[01:04:15] Ashley James: It’s not an allergy.


[01:04:16] Dr. Joel Wallach: It’s not an allergy. No. What I want everybody to do if they have any wheat, barley, rye, and oats in their house they need to package it up in a very nice package and drop it off as a present for their doctor.


[01:04:28] Ashley James: You are so funny. Why does barley, wheat, rye, and oats cause damage to the gut? Why does it mechanically cause damage to the gut?


[01:04:41] Dr. Joel Wallach: It’s actually chemical damage. It’s chemical damage because of the chemical makeup of the proteins in those grains. Rice does not have those, buckwheat does not have those, and millet does not have those, so those grains are all safe. It’s interesting too when you look at COVID-19 infections women have the same infection rate up until about 25 years of age as men. After 25 years of age women almost don’t get COVID infections at all and men go up.


Photo by Pille-Riin Priske on Unsplash


[01:05:16] Ashley James: Is it because of beer drinking?


[01:05:19] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yeah, men drink beer. Women drink beer in college, but once they get over 35 years of age they get a little more sophisticated and they start drinking vodka, they start drinking wine, and that kind of stuff, right?


[01:05:35] Ashley James: That’s too funny. That’s true. A lot of women are avoiding those carbs because they’re afraid of carbs.


[01:05:41] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yeah. They have a reason. The men they like their beer, but if you want to drink beer drink Asian beer—Japanese and Chinese beer made from rice.


[01:05:50] Ashley James: The most important foods to avoid are barley, wheat, rye, and oats. What other foods have you found that are very detrimental to our health?


[01:05:59] Dr. Joel Wallach: Fried foods turn into trans fats, heterocyclic amines, it causes cancer, and it cause plaque in your arteries. Cholesterol is your best friend. Cholesterol does not cause plaque in your arteries or heart disease. Cholesterol is your best friend. Again, if you’re doctor wrote you prescriptions for cholesterol-lowering drugs, package them up and send them to your doctor. I love you so much. I don’t want to take these anymore [inaudible 01:06:20] throw away. I’m going to give them to you. Please use them. I just am not interested in those drugs.

Alzheimer’s disease is cholesterol deficiency. Cholesterol deficiency did not occur before the 1930s and 1940s. Prior to that time, there was no such thing as Alzheimer’s disease. There were dementia, but there are eight different dimensions doctors tend to call them all Alzheimer’s disease because insurance pays the most money to treat Alzheimer’s disease, so they call all eight dementias as Alzheimer’s disease so they get the bit maximum pay.

Let me tell you a great story. The guy’s name is Ray McGregor. He’s still alive and he’s kicking butt. I was actually in Texas at that time. This Ray McGregor had been in a coma. He had “Alzheimer’s disease” for three years, he goes into a coma, and he’d been in a coma for eight years in a nursing home being fed through a G-tube. He’s in a coma for eight years with “Alzheimer’s disease.” I put him on our program for anti-dementia including three eggs twice a day with soft yolks and our D-Stress capsules, Ultimate Niacin Plus, and Healthy Brain and Heart Pack. Grinding everything up twice a day and putting it all through his G-tube.

His daughter did this for him. In three days’ time, he gets up. He thought he was only asleep one day. He gets dressed, goes back to work at the bank. He was vice president of the bank. It’s been eight years. Nobody knew who the heck. They said who are you? They thought this guy is trying to figure out a weird way to rob the bank. He was perfectly normal after just three days on my program after being three years cholesterol-lowering drugs of statin drugs. Then eight years in a coma being fed just these liquid food replacers getting slowly worse and worse and worse and worse. They thought his end was coming. That’s why his daughter contacted me, is there anything we could do? I said, “Try this.” In three days’ time, she calls me screaming, “He’s back at work at the bank.”


[01:08:29] Ashley James: I love listening to your radio show because I hear these stories. Because people call in, you tell them what to do, and then they call in three months later. They tell you this is what happened. You’re like, “Yeah. You had followed what I said, good. Keep doing it.” But you hear these amazing stories. I believe twice I have heard of senior citizens growing back the second set of adult teeth. They lost their teeth. They’re wearing dentures for a long time and after getting on your supplements, in their 70s, 80s, and 90s, they regrew new teeth. That’s because the body now finally had enough minerals to do that. That blows my mind what the body can accomplish. I love following you and listening to everything you do.

A few years ago, when you were here in my town, a woman stood up crying and said, “I’m a nurse and a month ago I was in a wheelchair. I thought I would have to give up nursing because I have MS. I have a progressive form of MS. It doesn’t come and go, it just goes. I just was on my way out the door and I had to give up nursing and then I found Dr. Wallach. I got on his protocol, and I’m standing here today. 30 days ago I was in a wheelchair and now I’m standing here because of everything he does.” You had said that MS, Lou Gehrig’s disease, and Parkinson’s disease that they’re all the same disease but just presenting in different parts of the nervous system. Can you explain what you meant by that?


[01:10:03] Dr. Joel Wallach: Different parts of the nervous is do different things, Ashley. When you shut one of these different areas down you get different symptoms. That’s just a simple answer because each of those areas does different things. You shut down the one that causes you to start shaking, you start shaking. You shut down a different one, you lose your memory. You shut down a different one, you get ringing in the ears. You shut down a different one, you lose all your strength. You start eating three eggs three times a day with soft yolks, you take your Healthy Brain and Heart Pack and throw in the D-Stress capsules, and the Ultimate Niacin Plus, Synaptiv and stay away from all the bad stuff. All this stuff is in this book It’s All in Your Head! Because there are 25 different diseases that go away when you do what I tell you to do. I figure I might as well put all these head things in one book.


[01:10:59] Ashley James: I love it. I’m so excited for your new book. Is it out yet? When is it coming out?


[01:11:03] Dr. Joel Wallach: Oh, yeah. You can buy them today.


[01:11:06] Ashley James: Okay, great.


[01:11:07] Dr. Joel Wallach: This little book is going to change America. I’d say within one year’s time, this little book will change America because all these diseases that neurologists make their living off of and send their kids to college on are not going to be here anymore.


[01:11:24] Ashley James: Fascinating. I’m just so excited. I love that because of you these minerals and nutrients are now in the baby formula that wasn’t in baby formula. Because of you, we are reducing sudden infant death syndrome and we’re reducing these nutrient deficiencies caused diseases as people are waking up. One thing you say is to avoid oil and this is so controversial. So many doctors believe that we should be drinking liters of virgin pressed olive oil. Why is oil bad for us?


[01:11:57] Dr. Joel Wallach: Because they are chemical structures. They have what’s called double bonds, which are very, very fragile connections between one carbon and another. When you leave them to sit out at room temperature for a couple of weeks like salad dressing on the tables and restaurants or maybe in one of these places where you go through a line and they have the salad dressings on there. You fry in oils, you baste in oils, you cook in oils, you simmer in oils, you grill in oils, and you’re oxidizing those double bonds in the oil turning them into what’s called trans fats, heterocyclic amines, and acrylamides, which are one of the most potent poisons on earth.

They cause cancer, they cause plaque in your arteries. Cholesterol does not cause plaque in the arteries, cholesterol does not cause heart disease. It’s oil, the oxidized oil it’s either just so you could keep your salad dressing sitting on your kitchen table all the time. It will take a couple of months for you to oxidize it, but if you heat it for frying or just sautéing whether it’s fish, fried potatoes, chicken, hamburgers, or whatever it is you’re putting the oil in, you cause inflammation in the arteries and it causes plaque in the arteries. It’s the heated oils or oxidized oils that cause plaque in the arteries, not cholesterol.

It’s just like when people were told Alzheimer’s disease and there’s nothing to do about it. It’s the same principle.


[01:13:22] Ashley James: Have you been able to reverse heart disease? People come to you with four clogs in the heart, for example, or they’re on a heart transplant list. Have you been able to reverse heart disease?


[01:13:30] Dr. Joel Wallach: Thousands, thousands every day. Thousands every day around the world. One of the first recognized heart diseases is congestive heart failure. Ashely, the terminal event, that beriberi. One of those diseases that the old sailors used to die from is caused by a deficiency of a single vitamin. Congestive heart failure because doctors want to give you a heart transplant for, is a simple deficiency of one vitamin. Atrial fibrillation is caused either by osteoporosis to the skull squeezing the tenth cranial nerve, you get degenerate disc disease, and the vertebrae—first four thoracic vertebrae—is squeezing the first four thoracic nerves from your spinal cord that control your rate and rhythm of your heart.

These hypertrophic cardiomyopathy heart disease, this Keshan disease. It’s the sudden heart death in these young athletes and sudden infant death syndrome all the same thing, are caused by a deficiency of a single nutrient.


[01:14:22] Ashley James: In terms of deposits built up where doctors say it’s cholesterol.


[01:14:26] Dr. Joel Wallach: There’s no cholesterol and plaque in your arteries. There is no cholesterol in your arteries. That was the biggest lie that medical doctors have told the world. They should all be put in jail for that. Every cardiologist should be put in jail. There is no cholesterol and plaque in your arteries. Cholesterol has nothing to do with plaque in your arteries. Cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease. It’s oils.


[01:14:53] Ashley James: I love it. What book of yours could someone read if they want to understand more about this?


[01:14:57] Dr. Joel Wallach: Epigenetics.


[01:14:59] Ashley James: Great. It’s so exciting to share this information because I’ve seen it work. You recently had sustained an injury that the doctors wanted to amputate your foot or they were entertaining the idea and you were able to save your foot. Can you tell us what happened?


[01:15:18] Dr. Joel Wallach: I was up in Canada. I was in Toronto and we had just finished one of these shows. It was late at night, dark, and we’re going to cross this field. There has been construction out there and they created a sinkhole in this field, which we had crossed hundreds and hundreds of times over the years and was just like a golf course, no holes nothing like that. There are seven of us, me in the middle, three beautiful women on one side, and three beautiful women on the other side. We’re walking because they’re rolling up the asphalt in the parking lot so you couldn’t park next to the meeting place. We had to walk across this field to get to the parking lot.

I stepped in this eight-foot deep hole and there’s rebar in there. This one foot was all punctured with rebar and it dislocated the SI joint on the right side and punctured my left foot. In three days’ time, that foot looked like a hamburger and everybody made me go to the emergency room. I go to the emergency room and they said, “Oh my god, we’re going to cut your foot off.” I said, “No, you’re not.” I got dressed and got out of there. My left foot, which had the gangrene in it and looked like hamburger, rotten hamburger, and they were going to amputate it, is perfectly 100% normal.

My right leg, which I had the dislocated SI joint in is still a half-ounce shorter than the left leg, but there’s no pain. There’s nothing wrong with it. I use a walker for balance, but I don’t need it. I walk around the house 14 times twice a day just for exercise. I can load and unload trucks and stand up behind the counter and deal with people all day just standing. No problem. I’ll have both legs when I die at 300.


[01:17:12] Ashley James: You better. Absolutely. But you healed so quickly. Did you change anything? Did you just continue on the supplements you always take and the diet you always eat or did you change anything?


[01:17:24] Dr. Joel Wallach: No, the only thing I did was I use our colloidal silver and squirted colloidal silver up the puncture wounds in the foot that I’d stepped on the rebar and had the gangrene. I just squirted colloidal silver up in the holes and sprayed it all over the outside of the foot. In 10 days’ time, it was all healed.


[01:17:40] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. I’ve seen that before where people who are on your supplements who are fully nitrified. They go in for a surgery, they heal much, much, much faster than any of the doctors expected because the body can heal itself when it has all of its resources.


[01:18:00] Dr. Joel Wallach: Ashley, doctors make their money when you have a complication from surgery.


[01:18:08] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


[01:18:12] Dr. Joel Wallach: Why would they want to avoid complications? That’s where they make their most money.


[01:18:20] Ashley James: It’s so disheartening and so frustrating. That’s why I do the work I do to spread this information so that we can help people.


[01:18:27] Dr. Joel Wallach: That’s why we love you. We appreciate it.


[01:18:30] Ashley James: My dear friend Jennifer who has healed some amazing things herself using your supplements and I have healed like I’ve shared. We started a website called takeyoursupplements.com. We help people to get on your protocols and follow your protocols to prevent and reverse disease and become incredibly healthy. Like I said, I reversed major issues. I was told I’d never have kids. I was able to conceive naturally, and we attributed all to the work that you do. Thank you so much.

A dear friend of mine, the second person I called to get on these supplements back in 2011 was my friend Forrest, who had chronic kidney stones. He was in his early 30s and he was urinating kidney stones for five months straight, unable to leave the house, he was in so much pain. We got him on your protocol and the kidney stones immediately stopped and they’ve never come back. You explained it was a mineral deficiency.  I’ve seen this over and over and over again that you regularly reverse issues.

Why is it that someone can’t just go to the grocery store and buy some generic supplements? Why is it that your supplements are unique and that your supplements are the most bioavailable that the body can absorb and utilize the best?


[01:19:42] Dr. Joel Wallach: Two reasons. Number one, they contain all 90 essential nutrients. Actually, more than that. 220 nutrients many of which will be deemed to be essential later on, but they certainly are in all our programs. We have programs for 900 different diseases. They all contain 200 plus nutrients 90 of which are universally agreed upon as essential. You see these advertisements on TV for these vitamins and minerals and these multiples. Some of them have been around since the Second World War. In fact, I used to take them as a kid.

They say complete nutrition. Order today. Complete nutrition. 20% discount because of all the COVID stuff. 20% discount, complete nutrition. You get all 27 nutrients. That’s not even 1/3 of the 90. 27 isn’t even 30. The 27 nutrients, I think 14 of them are vitamins and the others are minerals. They don’t have anywhere near the 60 essential minerals that you need. They get 7, 6, 12, or whatever it is. There you go. It’s just because their idea of complete nutrition is totally crazy.




[01:20:58] Ashley James: Your protocol has the 90 essential nutrients, but you also formulate it in the way the body can absorb readily.


[01:21:05] Dr. Joel Wallach: Yeah. We use very unique sources of these minerals, very unique sources of the vitamins, and very unique sources of the omega-3 essential fatty acids. None of our stuff is the same place any of these other companies get their nutrients from. Most of their nutrients are manufactured. The vitamins are manufactured. We have more natural nutrition than anybody else, but also, there are certain places on earth where these types of minerals occur. We’re talking about one deposit and these are places where everybody lives a long time. These are places where there are volcanic histories, so the volcanic ash is a 1000-feet deep here.

We buy the property, we mine this stuff, and is still in the plant farm. Repeat that, it’s still on the plant farm. These minerals are in plant cells. They’re organically bound as opposed to just ground-up limestone. That’s why ours are so absorbable because they’re attached to an organic molecule.


[01:22:11] Ashley James: Proof of the pudding’s in the eating by taking your supplements. I’ve worked with thousands of people since 2011 and they all noticed a difference. Everyone within days has more mental clarity, better sleep, better energy, and then they start to see those symptoms go away. The unwanted symptoms go away and they start to see better health just over and over and over again. I definitely encourage listeners to read your books. I’m going to have all the links to all your books in the show notes of the podcast so that they can read your books. Your information is phenomenal.

I love that you go against the grain. You go against the status quo because you’re showing people the truth. You’re not afraid to show people the truth. That’s why you’re my biggest hero in the health space. Thank you so much for coming today and sharing. It’s been amazing.


[01:22:59] Dr. Joel Wallach: Ashley, you are one of the greatest angels of God because you’re His work. I’ve worked with so many pastors. Actually, I have a wonderful DVD and a CD set called Praise The Lord And Pass The 90. Just a 30-second story. This pastor, Mike Freeman, up in Baltimore, Maryland. He went into a coma when the bird flu went through five or six years ago up on the East Coast. He was put into one of these terminal wards with 10 other people who were all supposed to be dead before morning. Ms. Linda, one of his great gals who does all his technical stuff, calls me and says, “Is there anything we can do for him?” I said, “Yeah. Just take our plant minerals, just plant minerals not the flavored ones, just the plant minerals. Put a face cloth on both his legs below his knees. Every 15 minutes soak them. Take a Bible in there, read the Bible to him. He’s in a coma.

In the morning she calls me crying. I said, “How is Pastor Mike doing?” She says, “Well, as predicted. 10 out of 11 were dead before morning.” She says, “Pastor Mike got up, shaved, and he’s down in his TV studio telling the world how God’s minerals saved his life.”


[01:24:07] Ashley James: I love that. I’ve heard that before that putting the minerals on the skin of people who couldn’t take it orally in order to absorb it. I love that. I’ve had experiences where I had a really, really bad sunburn to the point where blisters are coming up. I take your minerals and I spray it on. I put it on one side of my body, not the other, just to prove how quickly it’ll heal. The next day the sunburn where I put the minerals on is gone and the other side is still burnt. It just works. It really works.


[01:24:38] Dr. Joel Wallach: I remember you sharing that with me before. I want to thank you. Praise the Lord and pass the 90. Let’s do more great things together. Love you, dear. Bye-bye.


[01:24:44] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Wallach. It’s such a pleasure. You’re welcome back anytime.


[01:24:49] Dr. Joel Wallach: Okay. Thank you so much.


[01:24:50] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Dr. Joel Wallach, one of my biggest heroes in the holistic health space and certainly my favorite Naturopathic physician. Please go to takeyoursupplements.com and speak with us about what supplements are right for you. The trace minerals, their one bottle of it is about $24. It’s a liquid form of 77 trace minerals and elements. Everyone can take it. It’s affordable for everyone. Of course, to get all 90 essential nutrients that are right for you.

As he mentioned, the secret sauce. Depending on your symptoms, your health concerns, and your health goals, there are certain packages that he’s created. Certain protocols and programs that he’s created for everyone depending on their needs. We’ll help you with that. Go to takeyoursupplements.com. We really look forward to helping you. I’ve been working with everyone there at takeyoursupplements.com. I’m so excited that you can be part of it, part of helping get your health back.

If you’re a health coach and you’re interested in learning how to help people with supplements, we can also help you there. There’s a whole training program for health coaches to learn how to utilize Dr. Wallach’s protocols to help their clients. We can help you with that as well. Awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you love. Remember, go to takeyoursupplements.com and have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.


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Dr. Devin Miles And Ashley James


  • Difference between MDs and NDs
  • Different types of kidney stones
  • Magnesium and potassium can be helpful to calcium oxalate kidney stones
  • Herbs that maintain kidney function and helps treat kidney disease
  • 3 alkalizing foods: pomegranate juice, cantaloupe, and pinto beans


Most people think that if you have kidney disease, it can’t be reversed anymore, but that is not always the case. Dr. Devin Miles, a Naturopathic Physician specializing in gastrointestinal disorders and kidney disease, joins us to share more information about kidney health. She enumerates different types of kidney stones and provides information on how to prevent kidney stone formation as well as how to treat kidney stones.


Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I can’t believe it’s already June. Can you believe that? Time really flies. I’m so excited for you to listen to today’s episode because we focus on kidney health. Prevention is the most important thing, so if we can adjust our lifestyle and diet now to support kidney health, we can encourage our body to have a longer, healthier life. By supporting healthy kidneys, as what’s discussed in today’s episode, you’re actually supporting every organ of the body, so prevention is one thing. But if you have kidney disease right now, regardless of what stage you’re in, you can do things to support optimal health. No matter what, you can do things naturally to support yourself in achieving optimal health, and we discuss that in today’s interview.

There are a few exciting things happening this month because Father’s Day is coming up. I’ve talked to my favorite health companies, and we have some really exciting sales for you for Father’s Day. One really exciting sale is from my favorite sauna company, Sunlighten. I talked to them and talked to them and talked to them and whittled down a really, really great deal, so I’m very excited for you. For the month of June, right now they’re running some kind of special sale, but for Learn True Health listeners, on top of their already current sale price for their saunas and their solo systems, you’re going to get as a Learn True Health listener $200 off your sauna and free shipping. Shipping for a sauna system like a big wooden sauna system is over $500. They’re going to give you free shipping, and they’re going to take $200 off. If you get a solo system, they’re going to take $100 off.

Usually, in addition to that, for the Learn Truth Health listeners, they throw in some things like their bamboo towels and stuff like that. I really like the special, non-toxic pad that you sit on in the wooden sauna. I love their 3-in-1 system. I’ve had several episodes about it. I’ve interviewed a cardiologist that uses saunas for heart health. I’ve interviewed the founder of Sunlighten. She talks about why she started the company. I’ve interviewed an employee of theirs that shares some really cool stories of success. The reason why I chose Sunlighten out of all the other sauna companies in the world, for me to buy my own personal sauna from them, is because they have a 3-in-1. It’s a full spectrum of light whereas most saunas are just the far-infrared. The Sunlighten is the near-infrared, the mid-infrared, and the far-infrared. There are benefits to healing the skin and actually reducing wrinkles, reducing scar tissue, decrease in chronic pain, and decrease in inflammation on all layers through the skin and into the soft tissue.

You can sit in it at a lower temperature and get a really great sweat, so it increases your core temperature while still breathing comfortable air instead of breathing stuffy hot air. There are general benefits that everyone gains from using sauna therapy such as decreasing stress, decreasing inflammation and pain, and stabilizing blood pressure into a more normal range. All these things are great for overall health, but specifically about the kidneys.

There are many articles in PubMed and other studies that you can find that healthfully using sauna therapy can benefit those with liver and kidney disease. One particular study showed that the concentration of ammonia in the body was released through sweat. That we also release urea through sweat as well as high levels of nitrogen. Using sauna therapy in the study, they were able to take the load off the kidneys by allowing us to sweat through the skin instead of having to have the kidneys do all the work.

The reason why I bought a Sunlighten two years ago is because my doctor told me to. She said that my liver was having problems and that I should support my body in detoxifying, especially heavy metals. I’ve been using a Sunlighten to detoxify heavy metals, but also support my body in releasing these metabolites like ammonia and urea through my sweat. Lots of nasty byproducts of our metabolism can sweat it out, and then we’re giving our kidneys in our liver a break.

Of course, if you’re under the care of a physician for a disease like a kidney disease, you should definitely work with your doctor, but add to your team. Find a naturopathic physician, find a functional medicine practitioner, and find more doctors and experts to add to your team to give you different opinions and of course all science-based. Dr. Andrew Weil, who’s a very famous medical doctor that specializes in holistic medicine, is quoted as saying that he regularly tells his patients with liver and kidney disease to sweat in a sauna two to three times a week. That the increase in blood flow is so good for those organs—the detoxification that happens in the sauna but also that it lowers blood pressure and that’s really great for the kidneys as well.

There are several reasons why sauna therapy is great for the kidneys. I love the Sunlighten is a very gentle form of sauna therapy. But of course, work with your doctor and make sure that sauna therapy is right for you if you have a disease. There are some cases where sauna therapy is incredibly beneficial, and there are some cases where it’s not recommended, so make sure it’s right for you. There are many reasons why I love Sunlighten. If you go to learntruehealth.com and type Sunlighten or type sauna into the search bar, you’ll find several episodes where we’ve gone in greater detail but why I love Sunlighten.

I wanted to let you know that this Father’s Day sale is going on right now, and it’s such a perfect gift to give to your whole family, but especially give to your father or your husband for Father’s Day. The smallest wooden system is like a phone booth. It looks quite small on the outside, but you can actually sit in it with your spouse. My husband and I can sit in it comfortably and then our five-year-old comes running in sometimes. He likes to be in there for a few minutes, and it’s safe for a few minutes for children to be in there. Typically, it’s one minute for every year of age. He gets to be in there for about five minutes and then he jumps out, but my husband and I can sit in there comfortably together. It fits in the corner of one of our rooms.

You can get the wooden system, but if you don’t have a lot of space, you get the solo system. The solo system is ultra-low EMF and non-toxic. It’s very comfortable to lie on. Then you wipe it up and put it away in the closet when you’re not using it, so that’s very exciting that you have those two options. Then of course they have larger systems and they have different kinds of wood. I got the cedar because I love the smell of cedar, but if you’re hypersensitive to smell they have different types of wood depending on that.

Give them a call. Just google Sunlighten and give them a call. Mention Learn True Health with Ashley James and they will give you that discount. They know that this discount is for you guys, the Learn True Health listeners, and they’re more than happy to answer your questions. It’s a wonderful company that’s based in the United States. I just really, really love the quality of their products and their customer care.

If you have any questions for me about my experience with them, I’ve been working with them and using their system for about two years now, you can always reach out to me in Facebook or you can email me [email protected] Stay tuned for the other Father’s Day sales that I’m going to be letting you guys know about. Medterra CBD, which is my favorite CBD company because of the quality of their CBD. I’ve had them on the show twice to talk about that. Of course, my favorite magnesium soak and there’s going to be others that I will be letting you guys know about. I’m going to let you know about it in the intros of the next few episodes, but I’ll also be letting you know more details in the Learn True Health Facebook group. Go ahead and join the Facebook group by going to Facebook and searching Learn True Health, or you can go to learntruehealth.com/group and that’ll take you straight to the Facebook group.

Thank you so much for being a listener. I’m so excited that you get to learn more about how you can reverse and prevent kidney disease. That includes kidney stones. That includes even if you have scar tissue in the kidneys, we talk about how to reverse that, which is really exciting. Please share this episode with those you love especially those you know who have high blood pressure, have diabetes. These are conditions that harm the kidneys and that could lead to kidney disease later on. We really want to do everything we can to support our kidney health as much as possible. If you’re healthy now let’s stay healthy, and if you have some health problems now, if you have symptoms now, let’s get you back on the road to health. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day and enjoy today’s interview.

Photo by Robina Weermeijer on Unsplash


[00:10:01] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 434. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have Dr. Devin Miles on the show who is a Naturopathic physician that specializes in gastrointestinal disorders and kidney disease. I’m really excited actually to talk about kidney disease today. Out of the 400 and something episodes we’ve had, we’ve never done a whole episode on kidney health, and that’s something I’ve been really excited to discuss. I’m very excited to have you on the show today. So many people are on dialysis needlessly that we could support everyone’s kidneys now to prevent dialysis. I have heard Naturopaths helped people get so healthy that they no longer need dialysis. I’m very excited to have you on the show. Welcome.


[00:10:57] Dr. Devin Miles: Thank you, thank you. Good to be here.


[00:11:00] Ashley James: This is going to be a lot of fun. Before we jump into kidney health, how to reverse kidney stones, and prevent them and all the different kinds of kidney disease that we can reverse and prevent, I’d like to get to know you a little bit. What happened in your life that made you want to become a Naturopathic physician?


[00:11:16] Dr. Devin Miles: I started having digestive issues in my senior year of college, I was 21 years old. For me, it was just out of the blue. I had not had any digestive issues. Just one day, I noticed my lower abdomen was just bloated, then I had constipation, then I had more constipation, more bloating, more gas, and then it was foul gas. I started noticing I was having food sensitivities that I never had before. Fast forward, I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome. There wasn’t much of a resolution in terms of cure or even understanding what it was. I was introduced to this health food store in my neighborhood at the time and told the guy what I got diagnosed with and he had had the same thing. He was the first person that really gave me hope about what to do about it.

It really started as trying to figure out things for me. Then I started to realize that I was way more into researching about health than I was at my job at the time. I was like okay I think I want to make a career out of this. Eventually, I found naturopathic medicine. That’s when I was like yeah that’s it, that’s what I’m going to do. Then I went for it.


[00:12:55] Ashley James: I love it. You just dove right in and never looked back.


[00:13:00] Dr. Devin Miles: My body spoke to me in such a way that I had to listen. It was too much. When I found out about Naturopathic medicine, it was from a book that my parents gave me that they were reading at the time. That was significant because that was the first book, probably since the first grade, that I wanted to come home and read every evening. Outside of that, I was not somebody who read for leisure. My only time of reading was for educational and work purposes, that was more than enough. The fact that I actually wanted to come home and read that book every night, that really spoke to me.


[00:13:43] Ashley James: That’s so cool. I know exactly what you mean. I’ve got one right here I can’t put down. It’s called the Encyclopedia of Healing Juices. That’s not like a book you’d read like a novel but it does. I can’t put it down. Like you said, when your body speaks to you and when you’re really into health, when you’re really on the right path everything aligns. I just love that you couldn’t put that book down. What was the book?


[00:14:14] Dr. Devin Miles: It was called 21 Pounds in 21 Days. That was written by Roni DeLuz. She is actually on Martha’s Vineyard. She has her own retreat up there, which actually does incorporate a lot of juicing. She’s a Naturopath as well.


[00:14:35] Ashley James: I imagine her program isn’t about just losing weight but about losing the inflammation.


[00:14:41] Dr. Devin Miles: Yeah. It really can apply to everyone. My mom picked it up of course because she was trying to lose weight. Dr. DeLuz’s people from all walks of life are not just weight loss.


[00:14:54] Ashley James: Very cool. As you went to the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine, what times blew your mind? As you’re going through it, did you have these aha moments? Like oh my gosh, I couldn’t believe that we can reverse this disease or we can reverse this. Because we’re raised to believe, if our family traditionally went to an MD, we’re given drugs, we saw our family members given drugs for diseases and told that they’re just going to have them for the rest of their life. That’s just the way it is. 

We’ve watched Hollywood and mainstream media and we’re told this is just the way it is. Then you go to a Naturopathic school and you realize my gosh, we can reverse these diseases naturally? Did you have any of those aha moments?


[00:15:45] Dr. Devin Miles: I’m guessing that whatever I read prior to going to school made me walk into school with the expectation that I would find out how to reverse those. It wasn’t so much an aha. Reading Dr. Roni’s book, going to see her, and talking with her was very pivotal for me to believe that I could probably find the solution to anything. It was more so an expectation, but I will say the first quarter of school was very majestic for me. I was very much like ohh, wow, ahh type of thing. It wasn’t an aha moment, but I was just enjoying what I was learning that first quarter.


[00:16:39] Ashley James: Can you share with us something that you just really, really, really enjoyed learning in Naturopathic school?


[00:16:46] Dr. Devin Miles: I feel like the philosophy of Naturopathic medicine. I feel like that first quarter we went into that quite a bit. Just understanding how the body works and how connected it is, I really started to harness that mindset when I was in school. I realized that what we have is we’re trained to have a certain mindset that is understanding that the body is connected, that it works as a whole, but it’s not a rigid framework. 

I was recently quoted by the Institute of Natural Medicine about that that I have, what I consider, an open-minded framework. There’s some structure but there’s a way for you to be open to other things that you may learn that could also be pieces of the puzzle. I think it helps you to know where to put those pieces. First, you can accept them, and then second, you can figure out where to put them in the puzzle that you have already started to create.

For instance with carpal tunnel syndrome. I remember learning that, I think it was, vitamin B6 was helpful for that. Then there was something within acupuncture that was also really helpful for carpal tunnel, and I linked those two things together in such a way that I understood why both of them worked for a carpal tunnel because I knew one and then I could put in the other one after that. Just being able to link things like that and be open to how it works and that it does work I think is what’s been really, really nice.


[00:18:45] Ashley James: Awesome. I also know that there are certain minerals that when we’re deficient in can exacerbate carpal tunnel, can help when we supplement with certain trace minerals, and can help to alleviate, I’ve seen that before. The fact that you are not closed off like this is the only way. What’s the difference in terms of philosophy? Because this is really the key to healing our bodies is our mindset about what direction we’re going to take when it comes to our health protocol. What’s the difference between seeing an MD, a medical doctor, and seeing an ND, a Naturopathic doctor? What’s the difference in the philosophy of healing?


[00:19:30] Dr. Devin Miles: Medical doctors, MDs, have a standard of care that is I think quite rigid.  It’s more rigid, it’s more strict than a Naturopathic doctor. Naturopathic doctors have standards, but as I mentioned before, they have a framework that they can really build upon and branch out from. It allows them to be more receptive to learning new things, in my opinion. 

There are more tools in our toolkit for addressing different things. When you go to a Naturopathic doctor, if you go to one and then another you might notice that they use different approaches to get to the same result. That’s really why I think Naturopathic medicine came about because this German guy named Benedict Lust who put all of these pre-existing therapies together because he saw the synergy of them being put together. In other words, these therapies were around because he saw that they were effective, but they may not always be effective by themselves and different people need different things.

I think naturopathic medicine allows you to have a broader framework from which to choose what is going to work for that person. It helps you to figure them out better. We use things that the body better understands them. We as human beings are of nature. When we use things that are from nature, the body understands that better because it works with it versus if it’s something synthetic, the body knows it’s synthetic. The body is probably missing something that it needs for that to fully work. When we use things in Naturopathic medicine, we’re helping to resolve the issue versus forcing one piece of it to just work better.

For instance, if it’s hypertension, if I put somebody on hypertensive medication yeah their blood pressure would probably come down right, but if you take that person off of a blood pressure medication, the blood pressure’s going to go right back up. Versus if you adopt a lifestyle that is conducive to reducing hypertension and you use different herbs, homeopathy, and some other nutrients that can keep the blood pressure down, the body is very understanding of that and it’s getting what it needs to keep the blood pressure low.

You could say well if you get off of all those things of course the blood pressure comes back too. That can be true, but the reality is the difference is that your body has what it needs to be in balance. It’s not that the drug is restoring total balance to your body, it’s balancing you for the sake of your blood pressure. But is your whole body in balance? Probably not. 

That is the difference when we are working with a Naturopathic doctor. It’s not just about your blood pressure, it’s also about getting your whole body in balance. If you come to me with one condition, you probably have eight other symptoms that you may or may not be telling me that you might notice go away when you start to work with me because I work on the body as a whole.


[00:23:21] Ashley James: I love how you put that restoring total balance. Using the example of high blood pressure, the body is speaking to us in symptoms. So many Naturopaths who have come on the show have said that we need to listen to the language of the body, and the body is speaking and symptoms. If someone has high blood pressure and they just take medication for it, it’s kind of like if your car was making a really loud noise like maybe a belt is about to go or something and your mechanic gives you earplugs. You’re like here this is going to stop the noise. You put these earplugs in and then you’re not going to hear that noise. The car is still going to break down. 

I believe there are statistics, and maybe you could speak to this, but there are statistics that for people who are on high blood pressure medication long-term they have shorter lifespans. All cause mortality. For those on high blood pressure meds will not live as long as those who figured out how to naturally support the body’s ability to heal itself and maintain optimal blood pressure.


[00:24:31] Dr. Devin Miles: I was going to say I think that applies to a lot of different medications even outside of blood pressure.


[00:24:36] Ashley James: Right. There are certain medications. We always have to say this, certain medications save people’s lives, certain medications are really necessary. I’ve even talked to Naturopaths who say they would prescribe blood pressure medication in the short-term while they’re helping the person to make lifestyle changes, nutrient changes, and figure out more in-depth. My husband had out-of-control high blood pressure a few years ago. He’d always had borderline high blood pressure but then it went through the roof. We figured out it was—and this is going to lead to kidney issues. 

We had done the ketogenic diet under a Naturopath’s care for three months. After that, we did blood work and my liver was very damaged. It took me years to recover and my husband’s kidneys were incredibly damaged. We had to do several tests to find out. As a result, we ended up going whole food plant-based and focusing on herbs and supplements to support his kidneys. He was temporarily put on two blood pressure medications. It was a water pill and a blood pressure medication in order just to bring it down, but it only brought it down eight, nine points. 

Then the Naturopath worked with him. At that time, we were seeing one that specialized in cardiology, a very interesting guy. He figured out that my husband just runs in stress mode. He’s always stressed out. He had him on Carditone and that immediately dropped his blood pressure, which is really interesting. By that time, his kidneys were healed, he got off of his blood pressure meds very quickly. Everything’s good now. His blood pressure is totally fine. But it’s interesting though if he gets stressed out or starts worrying about something he can raise his blood pressure.

For him, even though yes he has to eat a healthy diet that’s conducive to kidney health and heart health. It’s just as important as his diet to lower his stress levels and to do that internal work to not work himself up, so it’s interesting to see. If we had gone to just an MD then he would have just put him on meds. Whereas the Naturopaths we went to address his stress levels, his lifestyle, his emotional mental health, his sleep, his energy, his kidney health, his heart health, and his diet. There are so many more facets of his life that have been enriched by Naturopath care than an MD would have. 

MDs have their place, they’re one piece of the pie of medicine, but they’re not the whole pie. In the mainstream media, we’re taught that MDs are the whole pie, that allopathic medicine is the whole pie, and everything else is like this alternative dessert. It’s not the case, right? It’s not the case.

One Naturopath I’ve worked with calls it allopathic reductionism. He says that MDs are trained in philosophy as reductionistic thinking. If you come to them with a kidney problem, they’re just going to look at the kidneys and focus down on that, reduce it to that, and not look at all the other symptoms of the body. Whereas a Naturopath, like you said, you’re looking at all the other symptoms. 

When you’re supporting someone in that vitamin deficiency they might have had for their carpal tunnel, you’re actually supporting them in their sleep, in their energy, in their mood, and their stress. You’re supporting them in all those other areas of their life because a mineral, a nutrient, or a vitamin deficiency will create hundreds of potential symptoms. You’re not treating a symptom, you’re treating the body as a whole and what the body needed. I

I feel like Naturopathic medicine should be the main medicine that we go to, and we should go to MDs for emergency medicine because that’s where they shine. Go to Naturopaths for prevention and for chronic illness because that’s where you guys shine.


[00:28:59] Dr. Devin Miles: Right. I am in full agreement with you that yes, sometimes medications are helpful. Sometimes Naturopathic medicine and conventional medicine do need to get used at the same time. It also depends on their stage of life, what they know, what they’re exposed to, and what answers they have. That’s also why I like to be on different media platforms so that I can expose people to what is out there, to what is possible. I know what it feels like to be on a journey of knowledge. You’re doing the best that you can at each point.

There was one guy, when I was in clinical rotations, who had schizophrenia. He was better managed, not just on his medications, but on medications plus acupuncture. That is what finally got him to a much more stable space. Even with my clients, I would say maybe half of them are on medications. I don’t tend to touch the medications. 

On top of that, I am in a state where—there’s about 22 states that are licensed where Naturopathic physicians can practice medicine. I’m in a state that is not that. It’s pre-license. I definitely don’t touch their medications, but I tell them that—especially if it’s something like blood pressure—you need to be taking your blood pressure every day. Being mindful of that, what I’m doing may drop your blood pressure further. We have to be mindful of episodes of hypotension because you can get symptomatic of course if you have hypotension. 

These are times when you need to start going back to your physician to be like hey, can we reduce the dose? The goal, of course, is for you to eventually not need the medication, right? Everybody’s in their own path and they got to find what works for them, what keeps them stable, and all of that. I respect that.


[00:31:13] Ashley James: That’s actually progress because when I first got into working with Naturopathic doctors, I was being mentored by Naturopath as a health coach. Back in 2011, only 17 states were licensed. I know that Naturopaths have been fighting for being able to be licensed in other states. That’s great, that’s progress to go from 17 to 22 in the last few years. That’s great. I’d like to see, obviously, all 50 states. I’d like to see all the provinces of Canada. I’d like to see every country in the world recognize Naturopathic medicine. It’s going to be one state at a time. The fact that there are 22 states that recognize Naturopathic physicians as doctors that could prescribe drugs and are at the same level and be able to use insurance with Naturopaths for those states. It’s good. It’s growing, it’s growing. This is what we want. Absolutely.


[00:32:15] Dr. Devin Miles: I enjoy what I do here in—I’m in Texas right now. Austin, of course, is a city that I think is much more receptive. That’s where most of the Naturopathic doctors. I am in Houston at the moment. So It’s a different dynamic, but I enjoy it when I get to educate people. When I first got here most people were like what? Wait, what’s the word again, Naturopath? I feel like now, for whatever reason, not as many people are responding in that way. They’re like oh, okay, okay. Cool. That’s good.


[00:32:59] Ashley James: Very cool. Back in 2011, I started working with a Naturopathic doctor and he was training me. One of my friends, who is in his early 30s, had kidney stones—chronic. He, for five months straight, was urinating kidney stones, passing kidney stones. For a man, that’s more painful for a woman just because they have a little longer urethra, so he was in agony. He couldn’t leave his house. He said the only thing that helped was to sit in the shower with the hot water beating down on him, and that’s just what he did all day for five months. 

I called him up and I said, “I am working with this Naturopath. He has a protocol for kidney stones.” My friend said, “Sign me up.” He got on these supplements, specifically very bioavailable minerals including bioavailable calcium, and his kidney stones immediately stopped and they have not come back.

The Naturopath that I worked with explained that, and of course, there are different kinds of kidney stones and you’re going to go into this today that there’s not just one kind. This Naturopath, actually, he’s 80 years old now and he’s still practicing. He’s really cool. I just had him on the show, Dr. Joel Wallach. He said that when we are deficient in calcium in our diet our parathyroid glands, which are the four little dots in the thyroid, the parathyroid glands will continue to release this hormone telling our bones to release minerals, like calcium, to the soft tissue. 

Over time, those will just do too much because we’re not getting enough from our diet and then it would collect in the kidneys. By supplementing with a bioavailable calcium that has all the other mineral cofactors, then the parathyroid gland stops doing that. That supplementation satisfies the soft tissue—the calcium and all the minerals the soft tissue needs. The kidneys stop creating the stones. I know this is very simplified—what I’ve said is very simplified. I’m sure he has a more medical explanation. 

It worked. My friend never had kidney stones again, and I’ve since heard many other stories of people who have had the same result. But if you go to an MD, if my friend had gone to an MD at the time, the MD might have checked his calcium levels in his blood, seen that it was high, and would have told him to stop eating things that contain calcium because he has too much calcium. The MD sees it under the reductionistic lens and says you have too much calcium, not looking at the whole picture. Whereas the Naturopath understands the whole picture and would say, no, you actually need more calcium. 

There’s a big difference. If he had gone to an MD, he might have gone on drugs, and surgery whereas the body was crying out for a balance of nutrients, and that’s what it needed. Have you experienced that? Obviously, you had great success with reversing kidney stones, but I’d love for you to dive in and explain the different kinds of kidney stones and speak maybe about my experience with my friend and his kidney stones that were actually a mineral deficiency.


[00:36:28] Dr. Devin Miles: I haven’t seen that particular story but it brings to mind something that I have seen in a different form. I won’t go too in-depth because we’re talking about kidneys and that’s digestive issues, but the theme of deficiency and overcompensation due to deficiency. I’ve seen that in different walks of life in different behaviors. That’s the theme that I pick up from that if you have a deficiency of calcium and then the parasite just over supplies calcium because of that. 

I would love to get into the kidney stones and talk a little bit more about some of the different types. It sounds like that might have been, of course, coming from too much calcium in the body from the parathyroid. I want to talk about what a kidney stone feels like first. You talked about it a little bit but I wanted to mention that a kidney stone is going to feel like back or loin pain radiating down into the groin or the side. It’s excruciating pain. You would probably know that it was a kidney stone because it’s that type of picture that goes with it. 

You can also have blood in the urine as well as an urgency to urinate. The way that this can be discovered is through an ultrasound. Your story that you mentioned before about the guy that was dealing with for five months, anyone who’s listening I would definitely urge not to wait that long.

I’m glad he didn’t have complications from it but you can definitely have complications from having a kidney stone. You can definitely have a blockage of urine and that could of course go further up and cause problems. Anyone who is listening and is thinking that they may in fact have a kidney stone, please go get that checked out right away. 

Some risk factors for having kidney stones. There could be a bone disease as you mentioned with the one guy, hyperparathyroidism, there could be hypercalcemia. That’s of course too much calcium in the urine. You could have too much cystine in the urine. There could be some sort of low-grade infection and I’ll talk about that in a little bit. There could be some abnormalities in terms of the structure of your body that creates poor urine flow. Then there could be different components that are in the urine that are in larger amounts in it that they should be. It creates a supersaturated urine and that can form crystals, and that can form kidney stones.

A couple of ways that this might happen could be changes in your urinary pH. If you have acidic urine, and we’ll talk about that more, that could be a reason why you create kidney stones. Decrease urine volume. This is why if you are prone to having kidney stones you want to drink a lot of water on a daily basis to keep the urine from getting too saturated to where it would form crystals. If you think about salt for instance, if you put a lot of water in the salt and you stir it up it dissolves, but if you only put a few drops and water in the salt it’s going to mainly just stay crystallized. 

That’s a good analogy for understanding why you need water to keep things dissolved so that they can pass instead of forming a crystal. Again, if you only put like a few drops in that salt, you can easily make a clump of salt because you’d only have enough water.

Bacteria could also form it. Inflammation or scarring within the urinary system. Another risk factor is being elderly, being sedentary. Sedentary, of course, can apply to any age, it’s not just the elderly. Cadmium exposure. One of the top reasons someone might be exposed to cadmium is through smoking. High intake of alcohol, oral contraceptives, and then long-term use of diuretics. Diuretics is any substance that can make you have to go to the bathroom more. 

Some medications are considered diuretics especially if you just have a lot of water on your body that’s not supposed to be there. A diuretic is what would be used to get the water off. Of course, going back to hypertension, some of those are in fact diuretics too. Not all of them but certain classes are diuretic medications.

Calcium oxalate stone contributors. This is one type of kidney stone—it’s calcium oxalate. This is the one that I think is more well known by the public is calcium oxalate stones. That can come from when your body is in a state of hypercalcemia, so there’s a lot of calcium in the blood. This could be from a bone disease, as well as sarcoidosis, and tuberculosis. This is called primary/enteric hyperoxaluria secondary to bone disease. Because of the bone disease, you can have too many oxalates within the body. When they say enteric they’re talking about the intestine. It could also be high calcium in the urine without high calcium in the blood. This could be a hyper absorption, so too much absorption of calcium happening in the intestines. There is a compromise in the amount of calcium that the kidneys absorb.

Your kidneys are filters and they’re also absorbers of certain things at different processes along with their function. There could be an issue in terms of how the calcium gets reabsorbed. Also, increased uric acid excretion. The uric acid crystals themselves can form different calcium oxalate compounds. That could happen within what’s called the collecting ducts of the kidneys. There could also be more oxalates in the urine. This could either be genetic or caused by enteric or intestinal diseases resulting from intestinal over-absorption of oxalate.

There is in fact a link between the gastrointestinal system and how well your kidneys function. I think sometimes this can be missed again when you’re only looking at the reductionism factor. There’s a particular test that I run on my clients with digestive issues. It’s a urine metabolite test. Within that test, you may see that you have a high oxalate count. It doesn’t mean that you have kidney stones but there’s something about your body that is producing a very, very high oxalate count. In that case, it can be important to address that then before you even have something like an oxalate kidney stone. Actually, I have noticed that people with autism can also have very high oxalate counts.

Hypocitraturia is also a cause and that can come from chronic diarrhea as well. That’s considered idiopathic. For me, as someone who focuses on digestive health, I’ve had clients come to me with chronic diarrhea. That will be also in the setting of bloating, food sensitivities, and all of that. When we work on those things diarrhea can slow down and they can have better-formed stools. 

I’ll probably say this later but I’ll say it also now, one of the things that I hope you’re that you’re picking up as you’re listening is the fact that it is important to figure out why you are in fact forming kidney stones. This is like Dr. Wallach did with the guy that you mentioned. He figured out it had to do with the deficiency of calcium and it was causing hyperparathyroidism. You have to figure out what type of stone it is and then why you’re creating that stone to be able to get to a solution that works for that person.

On to the next type of stone is the uric acid stones. That essentially, going back to what I said before with the crystals, it’s because you have high uric acid in the blood. That can prosper of course in acidic urine. Lastly, there are the ones but I just wanted to focus on a couple, cystine stones. This is more genetic and it also forms in acidic urine. The first client I had with kidney disease he has cystine kidney stones. That’s actually a more rare type. Most people, as I mentioned before, have the oxalate type of kidney stones. For cystine kidney stones, what can be really helpful is alkalinizing the urine, but we’ll go into that as well.

In general, when you’re dealing with kidney stones, the pain treatments that are usually prescribed by physicians in terms of medication would be antispasmodics. That is designed to help keep you from spasming. When a kidney stone is in there you want to try to loosen up everything so that it will be able to pass better. The antispasmodics can be helpful in that regard. Hemostatic is another type of medication that’s designed to help stop the blood. 

A hot soak bath, as you mentioned with your friend, is that the hot soak baths may be also helpful for pain. A few other things to keep in mind, going the more Naturopathic route, is to reduce large amounts of meat. If you’re having a lot of meat, it can create a very acidic environment. If you’re having way too much of it can cause a lot of problems and it’s not the best thing for your kidneys, especially if you already are having kidney disease, that is a very common thing for me to tell someone is you definitely need to reduce your protein. Particularly animal protein, in large amounts, can be quite damaging for kidneys. If it’s already damaged, it’s even more important for you to reduce it, but if they’re not damaged you want to only have a moderate amount. You can’t be meat, meat, meat all day long.


[00:48:10] Ashley James: It also depends on the type of meat. Dr. Wallach was a pathologist. He was given diseased kidneys after they were removed for patients who had kidney transplants. He looked at the kidneys and said why did you send me a healthy kidney? The doctor said what are you talking about? I removed the diseased kidney. He said there’s nothing. I can’t find anything wrong with this. He ended up getting the strongest microscope he could and looking at the nephrons of the kidney. What he figured out was that the kidneys were being clogged by nitrates and nitrites. These preservatives that are in deli meats and smoked meats—the molecules are large enough that they actually clog the kidneys, the nephrons in the kidneys.

The kidneys are kind of similar to the eyes in that they’re incredibly vascular. Kidneys and eyes are the first to go. If we have a vascular breakdown, people will lose their eyesight, they’ll start losing their night vision, or they’ll need stronger glasses. Same with the kidneys because they’re very vascular. So vascular that only one blood cell can pass through at a time. That’s how narrow it is. If those passageways are inflamed or damaged by certain chemicals like sodium nitrite, potassium nitrate, or however—it’s the nitrates and the nitrites. The bacon is the most common example but hotdogs and any kind of smoked meat, that, Dr. Wallach found, will absolutely over time, not only damage the eyes but will damage the kidneys and damage the vasculature in the body where the capillaries are so thin that only like one blood cell pass through at a time. 

That’s where the nitrates and the nitrites do their damage to us. They’re not needed for preserving meat, they actually just prevent the meat from looking gray. When someone goes to buy hotdogs or bacon, if they see the hotdogs are gray, we think oh it’s gone bad. That’s actually what meat normally looks like if it’s sitting there for a few days or if it hasn’t been frozen. So many meats have been preserved with these chemicals that are harmful to the body to make them look appetizing.

That’s what Dr. Wallach does. The first thing he does with someone who has kidney disease is he says no nitrates or nitrites, no fried food at all, 100% remove fried food. There are about 12 foods that he removes from the diet that cause damage to the vasculature of, not only the kidneys but the whole body, but it’s most important in the kidneys because of the concentration of vasculature. Then he focuses on high amounts of antioxidants and then he gets them on certain nutrients to make sure that they get the 90 essential nutrients—all vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and fatty acids. That’s his protocol no matter what. No matter what kind of kidney stone the person has, no matter what kind of kidney disease because he’s looking at supporting the kidney’s health overall.

It’s very interesting when you start to see how an experienced Naturopath treats someone’s kidney disease versus how an experienced medical doctor would treat someone’s kidney disease because the medical doctor is not trained to heal the person to the point where they no longer need medication. The medical doctor is trained to manage someone’s disease state. Manage them, make them comfortable, obviously, make sure they don’t die and get them on dialysis that kind of thing. But a Naturopath’s goal is to get them to the point where they’re disease-free. It’s a totally different philosophy. It’s very interesting.

I like that you brought up alkalizing the body, drinking plenty of water. Depending on which kind of kidney stone or kidney disease they’re going to see more benefit, but in general, wouldn’t everyone across the board, wouldn’t all kidneys benefit from a more alkalized urine or alkalized diet and drinking enough water? Is there a time when a kidney wouldn’t benefit from that?


[00:53:02] Dr. Devin Miles: In general, the body does better when it’s—I wouldn’t say just so far alkaline. At one point I saw alkaline urine but the person was still having a lot of problems. I wouldn’t use the urine as a marker to say everything’s good because my urine is alkaline. There are other things that can be out of balance. It depends on what the person is dealing with, but yes, in general, if you stay in a more alkalinized way of life compared to what the standard American diet is, you’re bound to see some improvements in your health. Because the standard American diet is very, very acidic. That’s why this push into a more alkaline diet can bring you back to the balance that you need to be at.


[00:53:58] Ashley James: We have to understand that kidney disease or kidney stones is actually a symptom and not the problem. It is a problem but it’s not a problem. All the symptoms we’re experiencing are not the root cause. The body is speaking to us, my body is out of balance, something’s going on. We have to go deeper and find the root cause and the root cause is always going to be how do I support the body to balance itself out? Because the body knows how to heal itself when we remove the things that are hurting it, give it the nutrients it needs and it’s important needs so that it can do its own work the body does its own healing. We have to figure out what we’re doing to hinder that healing and how we can support that healing. That’s why I love how flexible Naturopaths are because that’s what you’re looking for. How can I support this body to heal itself?


[00:54:53] Dr. Devin Miles: Yeah. Going back to what you said about the nitrates and nitrites, chemical and heavy metal toxicity is a significant obstacle that needs to be removed. That I think is a huge piece as to why Americans and I suppose Canadians as well, I can’t speak to Canadians, but in general, I think why our world is getting sicker and sicker. Because it’s in addition to I talked about with medications being synthetic, chemicals themselves are foreign to the body. They’re not supposed to be there. When we’re consuming them through our food, our water, and our air all of these things also need to be looked at. 

Not too long into when I started my business, I’m on Instagram @drdevinmiles, and another organization reached out to me. They were advocating for farmers. I think it was Central America, but apparently, there was something about the practices that were going on down there that was giving people kidney disease. It was a chemical within the crop that they were farming.


[00:56:15] Ashley James: It was probably glyphosate which is in Roundup. I’m only saying this because in Sri Lanka, the whole country banned glyphosate which is in Roundup. At the time it was Monsanto, they banned Monsanto’s Roundup because the farmers who are working in the rice paddy field so if you’ve ever seen rice fields it’s like a marsh and the farmers— their skin is exposed to the water. Before they used Roundup they were using arsenic as a way to combat pests. That was working, I guess. I don’t know how they didn’t have arsenic poisoning but that was working, and then they used glyphosate. 

The problem with glyphosate is that it’s a chelator. It binds to certain heavy metals and then it will release them when pH changes in the body. When pH changes in the body it’s when fluids change from one to another so blood to cerebral spinal fluid, blood to urine. That’s why, all of a sudden, all farmers in Sri Lanka developed kidney disease because the glyphosate which had bound to the, I believe it was arsenic, metals in the water and then was releasing them quickly into the kidneys. If you can imagine running a country and all of your farmers who are working in the rice fields become sick you want to take action. 

Luckily, they detected it was that and they got rid of it. Unfortunately, Monsanto or now Bayer has been pressuring the country to let them use it again. I don’t know where that stands, but that’s the problem with glyphosate. I’m sure there are other ones but glyphosate in particular is a nasty chemical that is put into our crops because it is a chelator that will bind to heavy metals and then deposit them into our brain and into our kidneys. Kidneys more so than the brain, from what I’ve heard. I’m imagining that’s what it is. Like you said, chemicals are man-made are foreign to the body. We did not evolve for hundreds of thousands of years with these chemicals.


[00:58:36] Dr. Devin Miles: Right. I would just like to also say when it came to these farmers these are like 28-year-old men. Sometimes we look at kidney disease as something that may happen to people later, and that’s not necessarily the case. It is important to keep a diet that is conducive to kidney health and also to be mindful of the different chemicals like the nitrates, the nitrates, and glyphosate to make sure that you’re avoiding those things as much as possible. 

Of course, if you can have more of an organic diet you’re going to reduce the amount of chemicals that you’re exposed to even through eating things that are per se from scratch or fresh produce. Because, of course, there’s going to be higher amounts of pesticides, fungicides, and all of these, there’s going to be higher amounts if you are in fact eating non-organic produce. I particularly tell people who like to juice, when you’re juicing juice organic because you’re getting a higher amount of everything—the good and the bad. Just make sure when you’re juicing that you’re juicing organic.


[00:59:48] Ashley James: Absolutely. That’s very important. Even go so far as to grow your own produce and juice it or a friend or a farmer locally that you know that you can get to know the quality of the produce. That’s awesome. Are there any other? I know we got side-tracked there. You’ve got a list, you’ve got a list. Okay, let’s continue on your list.


[01:00:15] Dr. Devin Miles: In addition to large amounts of meat, restricting alcohol, coffee, and black tea. One thing that I would say about coffee is that coffee is in fact a diuretic. When you drink coffee, you have to make sure that you’re balancing it out with even more water because coffee is going to make you lose water. If you’re trying to protect your kidneys and you’re trying to avoid kidney stones you have to compensate with drinking more water if you’re in fact going to drink coffee. But in general, it’s better to get off of having too much coffee in your life. Again, you would have to figure out why someone’s drinking. I’ve seen some clients drink like half a pot of coffee, that’s way too much. Helping you to get off of coffee is going to be really important for you, as well as black tea.

One of the things that can be helpful for calcium oxalate stones is magnesium, and the reason for that is because it increases what’s called the solubility of it. Getting back to making sure that it does not clump and form a crystal in the urine. Magnesium helps to decrease that chance of that happening. Also, potassium can do essentially the same thing. It helps to reduce the saturation of calcium oxalate and it helps to decrease crystal formation. 

Stopping smoking. As I mentioned before, if you are a smoker you’re getting in more cadmium and that can increase your chances of forming stones. Of course, that’s easier said than done but starting that path. This is another reason why it would be worth starting that path. Reducing caffeine intake and in general, hydrating to the point of two liters per day of output. That’s what I mean when I’m saying drinking a lot of water.

I have a lot of clients who when they first start coming to me they’re only drinking about two glasses a day. You hear everybody say drink water, make sure you hydrate yourself, but there’s a lot of people on a day-to-day basis who are not doing that. I would just encourage everyone, not just people who have kidney stones or kidney disease, to drink a good amount of water every day. I try to make sure people are getting at least eight glasses a day, it just depends on what they’re coming in for, but particularly for kidney stones, kidney disease you need to be drinking a lot more water.

 Photo by Johnny McClung on Unsplash


[01:02:45] Ashley James: Could we stop there for a sec? How much is enough? I’ve heard drink ½ of your body weight in ounces. If you’re 200 pounds you should drink 100 ounces a day. I’ve also heard you could drink 1/3 of your body weight in ounces but then add 8 ounces for every vice. Every time you’re stressed out, exercise, smoke, or drink caffeine or alcohol. What’s your philosophy on how much water we should drink?


[01:03:17] Dr. Devin Miles: I usually try to get people to do half their body weight in ounces. If it’s somebody who’s overweight, that can be an astronomical number for them. I just try to get them to drink as much as possible. When I say half your body weight in ounces, I find that to be something that has to be worked up to. I’m always just trying to get my clients to get to that level. I mainly just keep it at half your body weight in ounces. I try to talk to them about the type of water that I would like them to drink. 

If they have like a reverse osmosis filtration system I’m going to suggest adding more minerals, or at the very least, adding some sea salt to the water you drink or some lemon juice, cucumber, or lime juice to put minerals back in the water. Because when you drink just water that is reverse osmosis, it’s less nourishing to your system because water is not just something to help with solubility and increasing filtration, it’s also supposed to be very nourishing to the body. It supplies some of these minerals, right? Having something like spring water, alkaline water, or putting things in your water to increase the mineral content is something that I do suggest and just making sure that they’re drinking half their body weight in ounces. At a minimum, eight glasses a day.

I’m somebody who needs about eight glasses or so in terms of my body weight, I’m a smaller person. When I put that rule out there, I know that that’s roughly the minimum. That’s why I’m always trying to just get people even to that point.


[01:04:59] Ashley James: It also depends on someone’s diet. Someone who eats a carnivore diet versus a paleo diet versus a whole food plant-based diet, it’s going to get different levels of fiber. I’ve known people who’ve switched over to eating more fiber and all of a sudden they became more dehydrated because they didn’t realize that fiber binds to the moisture. If you’re going to start eating more fiber eating more fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds. Especially chia or flax, you definitely want to add a lot more water to it. 

If you don’t get enough fiber, there’s a whole separate discussion on the long term damages that the body will undergo if we don’t get enough fiber. Of course, not enough fiber and not enough water combined—you’re setting your body up for disease. We want to increase fiber and increase water. If you increase fiber you’ve got to increase water even more.


[01:06:00] Dr. Devin Miles: Another way that some men might be able to gauge their water intake is by their ejaculation fluids. Sometimes it can be very, very clumpy if they’re not drinking enough water, and other times it’s more fluid if they’re drinking enough. That could be another quick way to tell.


[01:06:24] Ashley James: That’s interesting. I didn’t know that. I learned something new.


[01:06:31] Dr. Devin Miles: The other thing that I wanted to mention was some things that can be helpful for the cystine stones because that is more rare, as I mentioned before, alkalinizing the urine is important. I had a client who was forming kidney stones every single year for the past 30-something years. He had to get lithotripsy to dissolve them and break them up. That’s a procedure you would go in the office to get the skinny stones broken up. 

He would notice that every time he would get those procedures done his kidney function would go down. Now that he’s very focused on keeping his urine alkaline, which he does test through the pH strips, through his diet he does this. Ever since he’s done that he has significantly reduced how often he gets kidney stones. At one point he was not getting them at all. Just recently he had a little pinch of something but nothing compared to what he used to get every single year.

For people with kidney stones that are cystine, just know that if you are very committed to alkalinizing the urine you can see some results that way from preventing the formation of kidney stones. Of course, just restricting the amount of sodium that’s less formation of different crystals within the body as well. I was just going to talk about a few herbs that can be helpful for kidney function as well, is that where you like me to go next?


[01:08:22] Ashley James: Yeah.


[01:08:23] Dr. Devin Miles: Okay. All right. Cool. Of course, the next step is how are your kidneys in general? If you’re somebody who’s forming kidney stones a lot there may be a propensity to do kidney damage. One of the things that I implement with my clients who have high-risk factors for kidney disease and then I also would implement it for clients who also have kidney disease are herbs that can be protective of the kidneys and also help to restore function to the kidneys. 

When I said to address the cause, hypertension and diabetes are two top reasons that people might have kidney disease or get kidney disease in the United States. Just remember that, in general, you have to look at the cause of kidney disease. Kidney disease usually happens because of something else going on in the body. Even if it’s very much kidney related, there’s some sort of imbalance going on in the body that needs to be addressed.

Milk thistle is an herb that most people know about for the liver, but milk thistle is also very beneficial for the kidneys. It helps to reduce blood glucose. It also helps to reduce your HbA1c as well as serum creatinine. Creatinine is a marker that you can look at to assess kidney function. It’s often looked at when you get routine blood work. It could also reduce uric acid in urine volume, and it does help to regenerate the kidneys. Milk thistle itself is an antioxidant. I do want to mention what you said about what Dr. Wallach said about increasing antioxidants. In my studies of kidney disease, the main theme that I pulled from that was you have to reduce the inflammation and you have to improve the antioxidant status of the person’s body.

Inflammation can feed free radical damage, free radical damage can feed inflammation. It’s important to reduce the inflammation and boost the antioxidants at the same time. Milk thistle can be helpful with improving antioxidant status within the body. Secondly would be cordyceps. Cordyceps isn’t actually an herb, it’s more like a fungus but it could also help to reduce blood urine nitrogen. 

Again, another marker that is often used to assess the kidney function, reduces creatinine, and increases protein in the urine. Protein in the urine is a common sign that people look forward to assess if the kidneys are damaged. When I talked about kidneys being a filtration system, the kidneys are not supposed to be filtering out protein in such a way that it would be picked up on a urinalysis. If there’s protein in your urine, there’s some sort of compromise going on with the kidneys.

Cordyceps also, just overall, improves the immune system, it can help with improvement in anemia, and also is good for kidney regeneration. When we talk about kidney regeneration I highlight that on purpose because in conventional medicine, if there’s not that idea that the kidneys can regenerate themselves is non-existent. The liver is very well-known to regenerate. It has the capability to regenerate itself. 

In modern conventional medicine, that belief system is not there unless you’re at extremely early stages of kidney disease. They may see that oh you’re having some protein in your urine. It may be something having to do with your blood pressure is too high. If you start to correct things very quickly in that moment like an MD, you can see some reversal and get out of kidney disease. But if you’re at kidney disease stage 3, they’re not trying to tell you that we can get you out of kidney disease because they have this idea that the kidneys cannot regenerate.

This is where Naturopathic medicine can come in and help to start to bring back function to the kidneys. A lot of people do call me when they’re at kidney disease stage 4 or stage 5. I want to bring that to people’s attention as well. I launched a free ebook for people to start to learn how to monitor their own kidney function because it’s like there’s some sort of disconnect between the position telling them hey you’re at kidney disease stage 1, 2, or 3. It’s like they don’t really tell them until they’re at stage 4 or stage 5. Even before that, even if they know they have kidney disease, the physicians are saying things like oh you’re fine, it’s not that bad. 

Around stage 4 or stage 5 they’re like hey you’re at stage 4 or stage 5, you need to be considering dialysis. I think that the educational piece is not there. I find it important to put that back on the public to be like hey this is what you need to be looking at when you get your routine blood work and it’s only a few markers that I educate people on to look at and to look at it regularly, especially if you are at higher risk for getting kidney disease [inaudible 01:14:13] thing because you have something like hypertension, lupus, or diabetes so that you can bring that to your physician and be like hey what do we need to do about this? This is what’s going on. That’s really important.

The milk thistle can be helpful, cordyceps can be helpful, and then flaxseed can also be helpful as well. It helps to reduce the inflammation and can be very helpful in the case of lupus nephritis. Any other questions you have, Ashley?


[01:14:47] Ashley James: Yeah. I’ve definitely heard of herbs being used to soften the kidney stones and herbs used to support the kidney function and decrease inflammation. These are all tools that MDs have no training in. Of course, Naturopaths, this is where you guys shine. What about homeopathy or other forms of therapies or therapeutic interventions to support kidneys? Have you seen homeopathy be successfully used?


[01:15:19] Dr. Devin Miles: I have not used homeopathy for kidney disease. I’m aware that it has been used, I just haven’t used it myself yet. I’ve been more focused on the herbs for helping with kidney disease. Unfortunately, I can’t speak too much to that, but I do know that in some cases like homeopathic mustard seed might be helpful for kidney disease.


[01:15:43] Ashley James: Interesting. That’s cool. Awesome. Do you have any stories of success you’d like to share?


[01:15:53] Dr. Devin Miles: The main one is the guy with the cystine kidney stones. As I mentioned before, when we alkalinized his urine, he stopped having kidney stones. In addition to that though, when he did start to have more of an alkalized diet, he also was someone who was dealing with hypertension and high uric acid. He has not had to take as much hypertensive medication. His uric acid also went down. Of course, by the time I started working with him he was already at like stage 4 kidney disease. I did put him on a blend of herbs that also included cordyceps.

Another one that can be helpful is nettle seed. We hear about nettles more so from the standpoint of seasonal allergies but that is nettle’s leaf. When it comes to herbs, you have to also know what part of the herb that you need to bring about the result that you’re looking for. Nettle seed is also helpful for improving the function of the kidneys. It was that as well as gotu kola can also be helpful for reducing the scarring of the kidneys. That’s something else to keep in mind is that when the kidneys are scarred, that is another area where conventional medicine does not have a solution for. Once it’s scarred it’s scarred. But with herbal medicine, you can in fact start to see a reduction of scarring within the kidneys.


[01:17:44] Ashley James: Gotu kola is not a type of soda pop.


[01:17:48] Dr. Devin Miles: No, no. It is not a type of soda pop.


[01:17:50] Ashley James: It sounds like a delicious drink, gotu kola. It’s an herb, right?


[01:17:57] Dr. Devin Miles: Yes, it’s an herb. Kola is spelled K-O-L-A. This is an herb with multiple benefits—as most herbs are. Most herbs have multiple different things that they are capable of doing. In school, we had a garden of herbs in the back. Some of the students would just chew some of the gotu kola leaves before they went for an exam because it can be helpful with cognitive function. It’s also helpful for situations like venous insufficiency. It’s a good toner for the vessels. When we’re talking about kidney disease, of course, we’re also talking about the blood vessels as well. It may be indicated in that way as well, but I particularly use it if I am looking to help reduce the scarring of the kidneys. 

That would be my main one where I saw not just the blend of herbs that I used on that client did help to increase kidney function. It was at a point where he was very concerned about going on dialysis. This was somebody who really wanted to avoid dialysis. He had a commitment to staying on the herbs, sticking to his diet. That would be a big thing that I would tell people with kidney disease is that you have to be very, very proactive about it because, for years, this client was not. 

He ate a lot of meat. He took his blood pressure medication but at one point he wasn’t taking it the way he should and all of these things. You just have to make sure that you’re very committed to helping make sure that your body stays in balance and taking the different herbs that people are suggesting or the different minerals and being consistent with that.

Just speaking up, if for some reason something is not working for you, particularly with men. I have noticed that sometimes they will stop taking something and not tell you something about it—I felt sick or something like that. You have to be able to voice that so that the doctor can adjust things because there’s a lot of different herbs that can be helpful for kidney disease. It’s not like I’m just sticking with just one. It’s just important that you are very much communicating what you need with your doctor so that you can get to the goal of restoring kidney function.


[01:20:27] Ashley James: I love it. It is possible. It’s possible to support the body’s ability in healing itself. Just to come at it from a different angle, my cat who is 16 years old has kidney disease. I was seeing a traditional vet and there were very little resources she had. Then I went to a holistic vet. I guess this is kind of like the Naturopath of vets. He’s been a vet for over 30 years, and he uses natural medicine for animals. I know him because a friend of mine, he reversed a chronic disease in her cat. Her cat lived, I think something like 21, very healthfully. 

I brought my cat to him and he immediately found so many issues. He found a parasite that was actually never seen in cats, it’s only ever seen in dogs, so we treated that. He adjusted our cat’s food and gave him a supplement. He said I don’t expect it to completely go away, but I definitely expect us to go back to like early, early stage. That’s what’s happened for our cat, who’s a senior—as a 16-year-old, he went from almost end-stage kidney disease to very, very beginning kidney disease. Our vet believes that now he’s going to live a very long and healthy life.

We are animals. Our bodies are just like animals. If we can do that, if we can reverse and prevent disease in animals, we can do it to our own body. Bringing back up Dr. Wallach, his background is on a farm. He was raised on a farm. He saw as a child, he asked his parents why do we give supplements to the cows but we don’t take supplements. Our cows don’t wait to get sick and then go to a doctor and then get put on a bunch of medication. His farm wasn’t like a factory farmer; those cows got to go outside, get exercise, and eat grass. 

They were also given supplements. He read the ingredients and he saw well there are vitamins, there are minerals in here. They make sure the calves are given all these pellets with all these minerals. He thought it was really odd that the system of medicine for animals was to prevent disease because preventing disease is cheaper than waiting to get sick and then having to pay for medication.

Can you imagine if our animals were in the same medical system as all of us, right? A burger would be $5,000 because the animal would have to wait to get sick and then be put on all these medications and have all these surgeries. It’s kind of ridiculous but it’s because it’s for-profit. Because it’s for-profit, it benefits the farmer to make sure they prevent disease in animals. Why isn’t our focus in medicine to prevent disease in humans? Because it’s for profit. 

We have to remember that the funding that these universities have, and have had for over 100 years, are from the pharmaceutical industry. That there’s a lot going on in the background that has the system set up in a way that is for-profit. I’m not saying that individual doctors are evil and looking to profit from our sickness, but that the system as a whole is set up to profit from people being sick and not profit from preventing illness.

If we can look at that, how do farmers keep healthcare costs down on the farm? Again, I’m not saying factory farms because those are incredibly sick and damaged animals, but the farms where the animals roam free. What are the farmers doing to keep animals healthy and prevent disease, and why don’t we adopt the exact same philosophy? Have access to clean water, get plenty of outdoor exercise, get really healthy, eat lots of plants, and also take supplements when needed to fill in those nutrient gaps. 

That’s what farmers do to prevent disease on the farm is to make sure that there are no nutrient deficiencies in the animals. When there is, there are documented cases of the disease. That’s the same as humans. It’s very clear that the philosophy of health and medicine make a difference when it comes to seeing a Naturopath versus any other kind of practitioner.


[01:25:23] Dr. Devin Miles: Just kind of an overall thing that I think our society, the way that it’s built, is that there were things built upon that needed adjustment. When you build something and you’re not flexible in the building of it to create an environment that allows for adjustment, I think that is maybe where some of the problem lies especially if it’s lucrative in how it’s built. When we’re talking about the system of health in this country is not what it should be, it’s a system that was built. You have to be able to break that down and to adjust it. When people are finally willing to break it down and do it again, I think that’s when you’re going to really see some change.


[01:26:22] Ashley James: Those that are listening right are those who their thinking is in the right place. They want to do everything they can to support their body’s ability to heal itself, they want to nutrify their body. The 37.2 trillion cells in their body are crying out to be detoxified, filled with nutrients, hydrated, and treated with love. That’s what we want to do, it’s what our listeners want to do. They’ve learned so much from you today. I’d love for you to give us some homework. Set us up with some homework that we can do every day to optimize our kidney health and prevent kidney disease.


[01:26:59] Dr. Devin Miles: A few things that have been helpful for alkalinizing the urine—one of them is pomegranate juice. Making sure that you’re getting a very high-quality pomegranate juice is where you’ll see the most benefit from that. Cantaloupe is another one. Pinto beans, which was like oh really. Pinto beans can also be another one that can be helpful for alkalinizing the urine. Getting pH strips if in fact you do have kidney stones or kidney disease and regularly testing your urine to make sure that it’s staying in the alkaline range. 

You will be able to start to notice what acidifies your urine, what makes it more alkaline. Through that process, you’ll be able to have a more balanced diet. I’m not saying that you can’t eat meat, but it needs to be most likely more moderate if you have very acidic urine. That’s the same with, of course, coffee, which is in addition to being a diuretic it’s also very highly acidic. Looking at the things that cause acidity, it’s not just about knowing what alkalinizes the body, it’s also about knowing what makes it acidic and having a better balance between those.

Pomegranate juice, cantaloupe, and pinto beans are three foods that you can start incorporating more to achieve better alkalinity. Water, water, water. I cannot stress that enough because I really feel like most people take that part for granted like it’s not that important but it is very, very important. Just remembering that magnesium can also help increase the solubility of these different compounds that can form crystals. 

Magnesium can be helpful for constipation. It’s also helpful for reducing muscle spasms. When we were talking about the prescription medications that are called antispasmodics, magnesium can also help to be an antispasmodic. The three alkalizing foods: pomegranate, juice cantaloupe, pinto beans. Remember to drink half your body weight in ounces with water, and then keeping in mind that magnesium can be very helpful if in fact you have a kidney stone, or if in fact you have constipation.

Again, remembering if you have a digestive issue you have some sort of intestinal problem, that also needs to be addressed so that you can reduce forming different types of kidney stones.


[01:29:47] Ashley James: Before we hit record, you had alluded that there’s a connection between gut health, maybe in the microbiome, and kidney health. Can you go into that a bit?


[01:29:58] Dr. Devin Miles: If there is an imbalance within the intestinal tract, sometimes you can have increased absorption of certain compounds like intestinal over-absorption of oxalates. When you have that happening, then the kidneys have to filter that out. If you’re putting too much in the kidneys in terms of different compounds that are conducive to forming kidney stones, again, that’s another situation where it’s too saturated. It’s important from that standpoint, in terms of understanding where this excess amount of compounds going to the kidneys is coming from, it may in fact be coming from a compromised intestinal mucosal layer. 

In that case, I would be concerned about okay, do you have good digestive health? What’s your secretory IgA levels? Do you have food sensitivities? Do you have gas and bloating? What’s your mental health like? If clinically, something is a little bit imbalanced mentally, that could also be something simple as you need to stop eating gluten because gluten and mental health have been very much linked, and of course gluten and digestive issues have been very much linked. It’s about figuring out okay do you have a digestive component to kidney stones? Do you have a digestive component to kidney disease?


[01:31:37] Ashley James: You mentioned earlier oxalates, should everyone monitor their oxalates and reduce them, or only those with kidney disease? Do oxalates cause kidney disease? How can some people eat pounds of spinach and be totally fine, and other people barely look at spinach and get a kidney stone?


[01:32:02] Dr. Devin Miles: I think some of that could in fact be genetic. Going back to maybe someone has a deficiency of the calcium and so they’re forming calcium oxalate stones. Maybe it has more to do with the calcium versus the oxalate. If they have digestive issues, I do think getting tested to see if you have high oxalate amounts could be a good idea, especially if kidney stones were running in your family, there’s a chance that you might be more prone to making them. 

So no, I don’t think everyone needs to be monitoring their oxalate levels, but I think people who might have conditions where there’s a propensity to monitor oxalates, then yes, it would be a good idea for you to monitor them. As I mentioned before, if it’s increased uric acid excretion that’s forming the calcium oxalate stones, then decreasing the uric acid would be really important as well. B6 is another vitamin that can be helpful for reducing calcium oxalates as well.


[01:33:15] Ashley James: Excellent. You mentioned magnesium and I got to say, my favorite magnesium—my favorite source, is Kristen Bowen. I’ve had her on the show a few times. She has a magnesium soak that is from the Zechstein Sea and it also has other cofactors in it. You absorb 20 grams of magnesium when you soak in it for an hour. 

The first time I soaked in it I felt drunk. I actually felt like I was getting a Myers push. I felt like I was getting IV magnesium, and I couldn’t believe it. I felt it in my body. I’m like whoa, this is amazing. If anyone’s ever had like a Myers push or had like an IV magnesium, you kind of feel drunk. You feel high, you feel very happy, and very relaxed. That’s exactly how I felt in my first time doing her foot. It’s easy just to put your feet in it and soak, but you can also soak in a whole bath. That was probably about two years ago. I’ve had her on the show. 

It’s very interesting, she’s done thousands of labs with her customers over the years, over the last I think 13-14 years, and she has people test their magnesium RBC levels before starting and then they do a 30-day challenge where they soak every day for 30 days in the magnesium and then they test their magnesium RBC levels again. 76% of people reach full cell saturation of 5.0, which that’s not the ideal number. Ideally, you want to be more closer to 7.0, but being at 5.0 is good. We’re out of the deficiency. We’re no longer magnesium deficient. The other percentage just takes longer and take more time in soaking. 

What she finds is that then when people—through the skin, when you’re absorbing through the skin, they’re obviously bypassing any digestive issues with absorption. Those people then, they’re sort of burning their magnesium faster than they can absorb either through chronic fatigue, or there are other things going on that their body’s sort of using up more magnesium than it can take in and it just takes them longer to soak in it to get to full cell saturation. It helps them to understand underlying issues. 

That’s been my favorite source of magnesium. If you want, I’ll send you some information on it. I’ve had over 2,000 listeners use her magnesium soak and absolutely love it. Many of them have shared in the Learn True Health Facebook group their experiences with it, that it’s been life-changing.

My whole family, including our son, loves it. It really helped him with his sleep because we had a really hard time getting him to sleep until he started soaking and putting the magnesium in his bath. He now goes to sleep much easier, which is great. Any parent who struggles with a child that won’t go to sleep it’s like a lifesaver. It’s a magnesium soak and it can be found at livingthegoodlifenaturally.com and then use coupon code LTH for the listener discount. I know that’s like the world’s longest URL, livingthegoodlifenaturally.com. Coupon code LTH.

Your website is easy to remember, however. It’s drdevinmiles.com. Of course, the links to everything you do—your Twitter, your Instagram, your Facebook, and your YouTube—it’s all going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com

It’s been great talking to you about kidney health. Everything that you talked about, in terms of supporting kidneys would support the whole body. Drinking more water supports the whole body. Focusing on making sure digestion is optimal. Making sure we’ve got the right vitamins, the right minerals. Making sure that we’re adjusting the diet to include more plants, more fiber. Taking some herbs that not only support the kidneys but support other functions of the body. 

In terms of taking those herbs, I would hate for someone to take too much of it. Is there a dosage or a way? Would you rather have them take it as a tea, a tincture, or a dried herb in a capsule? Could you get into that?


[01:37:43] Dr. Devin Miles: That’s varied per person, to be honest. There’s definitely such a thing as too much of an herb. When it comes to dosages, it really is dependent. It’s like what you were saying before with people with digestive issues, they sometimes may need more, sometimes they may need less. It really does depend. When you’re talking about the magnesium, one thing that can be helpful for people with digestive issues is instead of a tablet, having more of a capsule, a powder, or a liquid [inaudible 01:38:18] so much further with them versus something that’s like one more thing that’s hard for them to digest because the powder or the liquids are going to get into their system much quicker. 

But when it comes to kidney disease, usually what I try to do is the tinctures, which is a liquid so that it can get into their system much quicker. Especially when you’re doing herbal combinations and you’re doing at least five herbs, doing it in the liquid form is going to be much easier for them to take versus five different capsules of herbs. It just depends on the person though because I could say that and then they may be like no, I’d rather capsules. It’s also about listening to the person in what they need. In terms of dosages, it really just depends on the person.


[01:39:10] Ashley James: Got it. It’s best to work with a Naturopathic physician who’s experienced in working with supporting the kidneys.


[01:39:18] Dr. Devin Miles: Yes, yes, yes.


[01:39:20] Ashley James: Like yourself.


[01:39:21] Dr. Devin Miles: Yes, you know what I mean? It brings to light the hope that things can change. We’re more educated in this realm of possibility. It’s that yes, these things can in fact help your kidneys. You don’t have to just wait until dialysis happens. You can be doing something in the interim to support kidney health. 

That’s one thing that I’m always trying to help people to understand is that what I do is empowering. I’m not just here to help per se fix you. It’s not just about that. It’s about teaching you how to help yourself, and that’s really what I’m doing. I’m a teacher, and I like being able to teach people.


[01:40:10] Ashley James: Right. The root for doctor is doceri, which means teacher, so you take that very seriously. You can’t come home with us, make us take our supplements, cook our food for us, make us go for walks, and make us drink our water. You have to teach us so that we go do it ourselves. The hope needs to be installed, needs to be shared. We really need to believe. The first thing we need to do is believe the body can heal itself. 

The things I’ve seen the body heal are so miraculous. Using Dr. Wallach as an example, he has helped thousands of people get off of dialysis—no longer need dialysis when they were told they would be on dialysis for the rest of their very short life. We can heal our body to the point where it recovers even when we’ve told it won’t ever recover. So who are they to say you can’t heal yourself.

We first have to decide that yes, there’s always a point of bifurcation, there’s always a point of no return, right? There’s always that, but are you there yet, and who’s to say that you’re at that point? We should never give our personal power over like that. We need to fight right to the very end. Doing things like supporting the body’s ability to heal itself, even if you’re on dialysis, change your diet. Work with a doctor that knows kidneys and know dialysis and so that you can take the supplements that are in alignment with you right now, but take the herbs. Change the diet, change the lifestyle, and do it in a way to support your kidneys. Maybe your body will get so healthy you no longer need dialysis, or maybe you get so healthy your dialysis gets cut in half. Either way, you’re supporting the body as a whole.

It’s just so important that we don’t give up and give our personal power over to someone and just say okay whatever this doctor says this is just the way it’s going to be. It’s ludicrous. We’re giving over our personal power when we do that. We need to fight, keep educating ourselves, and keep learning from doctors like you who have alternative information that is science-based and that empowers us. 

We have to question, why is it that not all doctors have this information? We have to advocate for ourselves and go to different doctors. Go to different holistic doctors, go to all sorts of different professionals who have different perspectives and different pieces of the pie so that we can help our body heal, but never, never take no as an answer. Never believe that our body is just breaking down and we’re done.

It upsets me when I hear someone with type 2 diabetes was told they’ll always have type 2 diabetes. They just have to be on this medication for the rest of their life, they’ll always have it. That should be a crime. It should honestly be a crime to be told that when it’s reversible and easily reversed all the time under the care of the right physician, under the care of a Naturopath or under the care of a doctor that practices holistic medicine. Under your care, you’re supporting your clients and your patients in having optimal kidney function at any stage.


[01:43:40] Dr. Devin Miles: To second what you just said, the theme that I want the listeners to keep in their minds is stay curious. If somebody says no this is not possible—just stay curious and go look somewhere else because you’ll probably find the answer that you’re looking for. This world is a very, very large world with a lot of different opinions. 

The US is not God when it comes to healing information, they’re certainly not. There are different things that are great here, but if you’re not finding the answers that you’re looking for—stay curious. That would be the thing I would definitely want you to keep in mind because that has really been helpful for me.

I think a lot, and I was curious, and so I just went for it. I didn’t even think about it, honestly. When I was doing all these things in my 20s, I just did them because I saw the possibility. As I learned more, I realized there’s more and there’s more. Just stay curious.

[01:44:51] Ashley James: Stay curious. I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much Dr. Devin Miles for coming on the show today. It’s been such a pleasure having you here.


[01:44:59] Dr. Devin Miles: You’re welcome. Thank you for inviting me to be on the show. I just want to mention to everyone that I am doing telehealth consultations. Even if you’re not right here in Texas I am reachable.


[01:45:15] Ashley James: Fantastic. That’s great information especially nowadays when we can’t even see our doctor in person. Might as well call you up.


[01:45:25] Dr. Devin Miles: That’s what I mean. Go find the answers that you need even if they’re not right in your neighborhood, they’re somewhere else.


[01:45:35] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Dr. Devin Miles, holistic Naturopathic physician, and how you can support your overall kidney health. I did mention the supplements that Dr. Wallach created. The mineral supplements that have the very bioavailable form of calcium that’s really supportive of the kidneys, and in some cases, helps to even prevent stones especially when the person has a mineral deficiency.

If you’d like to try those supplements and talk to an expert on them please go to takeyoursupplements.com. You will definitely love those supplements. I’ve been on them since 2011, and they have helped me to reverse my health issues and conceive our child naturally. I have a whole story I’ve shared in the past. 

I’m going to be publishing very soon my interview with Dr. Wallach who just turned 80 years old and is still a very active and practicing Naturopathic physician. He is my hero, he’s my mentor, and he is the creator of the supplements that I take and the supplements that we sell at takeyoursupplements.com. Please go to takeyoursupplements.com and check them out. I absolutely love them. I highly recommend them. They are bioavailable, all-natural supplements so that we can make sure that you have all 60 minerals in your life, in your body so you don’t have a mineral deficiency.

Excellent. Thank you so much for being a listener and sharing this episode with those you care about. Let’s help as many people as possible to learn true health.


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Dr. Michael Greger & Ashley James


  • Foods that we should be adding to our daily diet
  • Benefits of whole food plant-based diet
  • Diseases reversed by whole food plant-based diet
  • What people in Blue Zones share in common


What is the best diet that provides the best outcome for everybody? Dr. Michael Greger, author of books How Not to Die, How Not to Diet, and How to Survive a Pandemic, shares with us the best diet for everybody. He also talks about some of the foods we should eat on a daily basis and what lifestyle changes we need to do.


Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I’m so excited for you to listen to today’s interview with Dr. Greger. He only does half-an-hour interviews so I had to be very on point with my questions, to get as much information out of him as possible. One big message that he brings is how you can heal your body and prevent disease with food. If you have a disease, you can actually reverse it with nutrition.

If you’d like to learn how to cook in a way that heals the body that is in alignment with how Dr. Greger teaches, please join the Learn True Health Home Kitchen. I designed a membership where I teach with my friend Naomi how to cook food that is delicious, that’s healing for the body, and that your whole family will love. Come join the membership and check it out. You’ll also be supporting the Learn True Health podcast and helping me to continue to produce interviews like this when you join the Learn True Health Home Kitchen. Go to learn to your learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. That’s learntruehealth.com/homekitchen.

Come check it out and just learn how to bring more nutrient-dense foods into your diet to heal your body and support your body’s ability to prevent and reverse disease. Excellent. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you love. Enjoy today’s interview.

Image by PublicDomainPictures from Pixabay


[00:01:32] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 433. I am very excited for today’s guest. Dr. Greger, you are quite an honored guest to have here today. My best friend and I are both whole food plant-based. She just wants you to know that if you ever become single she would leave her husband for you. You’ve got a lot of fans. You’ve got a lot of fans here. We’re big admirers of your work, your books—How Not to Die, How Not to Diet—and then you have the latest one, How to Survive a Pandemic. I can’t wait to talk about that. Your website nutritionfacts.org is fascinating. I highly recommend everyone go to it and use it. How do you do everything you do? You’re constantly pumping out books, articles, and videos. You must have a huge team to support you. You either that or you have a troubling meth problem. I don’t know. You’re just always producing amazing things. We’re really in awe of you.


[00:02:43] Dr. Michael Greger: That’s very sweet. I do indeed have this fantastic staff, not only 14 folks on staff in the non-profit Nutrition Facts, but we have about 200 active volunteers at any one time. We have this tremendous team of folks—all churning out wonderful life-changing, life-saving information. That’s what it’s all about.


[00:03:09] Ashley James: Absolutely. It’s quite controversial asking people to change their diet to reverse and prevent disease especially since the government puts out their recommendations. According to what they put out, that’s a disease-causing diet. There’s so much controversy. MDs are not trained in nutrition. You have to go above and beyond as an MD to learn how to heal with food. Can you tell us about what happened in your life that made you want to help people heal with food?


[00:03:41] Dr. Michael Greger: Sure. It was really all thanks to my grandmother. I was just a kid when the doctor sent my grandma home in the wheelchair to die. She was diagnosed with end-stage heart disease. She basically already had so many bypass operations. The surgeons basically run out of plumbing at some point, confined in the wheelchair, crushing chest pain, and her life was over at age 65. Pretty sure you’ve heard about this guy Nathan Pritikin, one of our early lifestyle medicine pioneers. What happened next is actually detailed in Pritikin’s biography. He talks about Frances Greger, my grandmother. They wheeled her in and she walked out. In fact, within a few weeks, she was walking 10 miles a day. Thanks to [inaudible 00:04:22] though she was given a medical death sentence at age 65, thanks to a healthy diet she went on to live another 31 years till age 96 to continue to enjoy her six grandkids including me. That’s why I went into medicine. That’s why I started nutritionfacts.org. That’s why I wrote the book How Not to Die and why 100% of the proceeds I get from all my books are donated to charity. I just want to do for everyone’s family what Pritikin did for my family.


[00:04:49] Ashley James: How do you make an income then if everything you do seems to fund amazing charities?


[00:04:54] Dr. Michael Greger: I’m on staff at nutritionfacts.org. I’m the Chief Science Officer. Those who make donations to the 501(c)(3) non-profit Nutrition Facts, they are helping me put kale on the table.


[00:05:14] Ashley James: I love it. Speaking of kale, you’ve mentioned kale as being one of your favorite superfoods, what other foods should we eat every day or at least every week and why?


[00:05:24] Dr. Michael Greger: That’s the second half of my book How Not to Die. The first half is just 15 chapters and each of the 15 leading causes of death talking about the role of diet. [Inaudible 00:05:32] preventing, resting, and reversing each of our top 15 killers, but I didn’t want it to just be a reference book. I wanted it to be a practical guide. I’m translating this mountain of data into day-to-day grocery store type decisions. To that end, the second half of the book centers around my recommendations wherein a daily dozen checklist of all the things that try to fit into my daily routine. For example, berries every day the healthiest types of fruits, greens every day the healthiest types of vegetables, 1 tablespoon of flaxseed, and ¼ teaspoon turmeric. The best beverages, best sweeteners, and how much exercise to get. Basically, just try to motivate people to include some of the healthiest of healthy foods into their daily diet.


[00:06:13] Ashley James: You discuss Blue Zones or at least we see that there’s so much information coming out of Blue Zones and there’s a controversy because some Blue Zones consume meat, there’s one that doesn’t. The one in Italy is all about olive oil. Apparently, olive oil is the cure and the best thing we could ever do. We don’t know what the driver is. We have to look at the similarities. Obviously, you pore through the science. You’re all about science-based nutrition. What is the commonality in all the Blue Zones that really make the difference that if we applied the same principles to our lifestyle and diet we would get the same result?


[00:06:51] Dr. Michael Greger: What they all share in common, again, Blue Zones are areas with the greatest long human longevity, the most centenarians per capita. For example, the people who live over 100 years old. What does every single one of them share in common? They eat a diet centered around whole plant foods and their primary source of protein is some form of legume: beans, split peas, chickpeas, or lentils. For example, the Okinawan Japanese, the second-longest living population in the world, it’s about a 97% plant-based diet. Actually, 70% of the calories of sweet potatoes, basically a vegetable centered diet. The only formally studied population that lives longer is the Seventh-day Adventist vegetarians in Loma Linda California. They live longer than anybody else, and they don’t eat any meat at all.


[00:07:45] Ashley James: I just heard a really troubling statistic. I was listening to a White House presentation this week about lowering the cost of insulin. I heard that one in three senior citizens are on insulin. That really disturbed me that the level of insulin use is that high. The level of type 2 diabetes continues to rise. Now there’s so much controversy because, in the mainstream sugar, carbs, and sweet potatoes would be the cause of insulin issues or needing insulin in diabetes, but you propose that a plant-centered diet would actually help to reverse diabetes. Can you explain why?


[00:08:26] Dr. Michael Greger: It’s not controversial in the medical literature. It’s just controversial in internet land where even the roundness of the earth is in question. But no, the science is very clear. Type-2 diabetes and pre-diabetes is caused by insulin resistance. Your body’s resistant to the effects of the insulin that your body produces. What’s that caused by? This is not controversial. If you look at the peer-reviewed medical literature, it’s caused by what is called an intramyocellular lipid. This is fat that’s stuck inside your muscle cells and inside the liver cells in the context of excess calories so it’s caused by fat. Now that can be fat in your mouth that’s going in your mouth, or it can be excess fat that’s on your body. Either way, we have high levels of free-floating fat in the bloodstream, which clogs up your muscle and liver cells, impairs their ability to respond to insulin, and you can end up with type 2 diabetes, which is the leading cause of adult-onset blindness, amputations, and kidney failure.

It’s no good. Now, we have two pandemics colliding. A pandemic of obesity and diabetes colliding with an infectious disease pandemic. It’s important to realize that the underlying risk factors for COVID-19’s severity and death are obesity, high blood pressure, heart disease, and type 2 diabetes all of which can be controlled or even reversed with a healthy enough plant-based diet and lifestyle.


[00:09:59] Ashley James: What about this keto phenomenon? It used to be Atkins back in the day, right? Then it was paleo and now it’s keto. I think people like to think that they can reverse disease if they eat a bunch of meat and fat and avoid those really evil carbohydrates. People see really good results in the short-term with keto, but that’s increasing fat. According to what you just said, wouldn’t that increase insulin resistance and have poor outcomes in the long term?


[00:10:30] Dr. Michael Greger: Within the short-term, within days you increase insulin resistance with a ketogenic diet. In fact, the largest chapter in my book How Not to Diet I talk about the ketogenic diet. The data is very clear. People love hearing good news about their bad habits so any book that comes out and tells people to eat bacon and butter, obviously, are just going to sell better than those that come out and tell people to eat broccoli, but the science is very clear. In fact, switching to a ketogenic diet actually cuts the rate of fat loss in half after switching to a ketogenic diet because you’re actually cannibalizing your own protein, but you get the loss in water weight, which flushes out the ketones. Looking at the bathroom scale, the ketogenic diet seems like a smashing success, but what we care about is not a loss of water or protein. What we care about is the loss of body fat. Actually, body fat loss slows down. That’s why CrossFit trainees placed on a ketogenic diet, their leg muscles shrink as much as [80%] within 2 months. Exercise is supposed to make your muscles bigger, not smaller but that’s what happens when you’re on a ketogenic diet, not a good idea.


[00:11:56] Ashley James: Originally, the ketogenic diet was created to mimic fasting so that children with epilepsy could stay on it long term. What about fasting? There are so many health benefits to fasting being promoted out there. What are your thoughts on fasting and should we do it on a regular basis?


[00:12:12] Dr. Michael Greger: I talk about all types of fasting: alternate-day fasting, intermittent fasting, 55-2 fasting, 25-5 fasting, fasting-mimicking diet, and time-restricted feeding. Bottom line, there are benefits from early time-restricted feeding meaning narrowing your eating window 12 hours or less, but critically, that’s in the morning rather than the evening. If anything, you skip supper not breakfast. That has a variety of benefits both chrono biologically based on our circadian rhythms as well as metabolically. We talked about all the benefits. It’s really quite extraordinary. We should not be eating after sundown. I encourage people to fast after 7:00 PM and try to wait for their greatest caloric intake towards the beginning of the day.


[00:13:03] Ashley James: You have a book How to Survive a Pandemic, is it out already or are you still releasing it?


[00:13:09] Dr. Michael Greger: It is out as of Tuesday, May 26.


[00:13:13] Ashley James: Very cool. Tell us about How to Survive a Pandemic and why should we read it.


[00:13:18] Dr. Michael Greger: I try to cover everything there is to know to protect ourselves and our families from the coronavirus. Everything from optimal [inaudible 00:13:26] and hand hygiene, surface disinfection, masks, and how to make your own and hand sanitizer, but the best way to survive a pandemic is to prevent it in the first place. The bulk of the book actually centers around tracing the origins of the COVID coronavirus and what we can do to prevent even greater infectious disease threats in the future.


[00:13:45] Ashley James: Based on your research, because you love to look at the science and then decide what is the best route based on the results, you’re not choosing diet dogma. I think that doctors who like to share that a plant-based diet is healing for the body tend to get criticized because those who see that there’s look, there’s a study that says that this meat is healthier, this fish is healthier, this dairy is healthy, and then they like to discredit them. But you like to look at the science and the results and go and then share that and go listen, don’t listen to me listen to the results, listen to the science. But based on your research, is there a one diet fits all? If we put 100% of the population on one way of eating, would we be able to reverse all disease, or do there need to be certain tweaks? Let’s say, someone who’s a bodybuilder versus a 90-year-old grandmother versus someone with fatty liver disease, should they all be on slightly different diets based on their nutritional needs?


[00:14:46] Dr. Michael Greger: The good news is that we have a tremendous power of our health, destiny, and longevity. The vast majority of premature death and disability are preventable with a plant-based diet and other healthy lifestyle behaviors just like smoking is bad for everybody. It’s not some people that smoking is good for. Eating a healthy diet is good for everybody. There are things that are good for your body and bad for your body. Some people have allergies to a specific food. Are peanuts bad for you? If you have a peanut allergy, it could kill you, but otherwise no. The same kind of thing. The people that are lactose intolerant that would affect some people will have different caffeine metabolism rates, so coffee affects them a little differently. But it’s not like there are people out there where hotdogs are good for them or broccoli is bad for them. 

If you go to truehealthinitiative.org, this is an initiative set forth by Yale’s Prevention Research Center which asks hundreds of the top nutrition scientists in the world to agree on a consensus statement as to what the healthiest diet is. Just like you want to know about climate change, you go to the IPCC. What do climate change scientists have to say, right? So the same thing. You can see that there’s a consensus as to the core tenants of healthy eating and living going back decades, and that is centering one’s diet around whole healthy plant foods. 

Image by RitaE from Pixabay 


[00:16:18] Ashley James: You have given many video talks and lessons on your website nutritionfacts.org, which one of all of them are you the most proud of?


[00:16:30] Dr. Michael Greger: Oh, wow. What a great question. Thousands of videos. If I can remember half of them that would be… Every time I put out a book I do a new talk, an hour-long presentation where I pick all the most akin of practical, groundbreaking, interesting bits together. Then it gives you this broad overview. Those are probably my favorite talks. I have one for How Not to Diet. I have one for How Not to Die. Those are probably the talks I’m most proud of. Though I yet have to have an hour-long presentation about How to Survive a Pandemic, but I do have about three hours’ worth of videos coming up—17 videos starting at the end of May running through July on nutritionfacts.org.


[00:17:36] Ashley James: We’ll look out for them for sure. As a doctor, as you’ve been taking your own initiative to study nutrition outside of school, because that’s what doctors have to do in order to really, really learn the truth, and as you’ve been helping people, what one story stands out for you? What healing story surprised you? Someone who actually healed their body that you were really surprised that they were able to heal using nutrition.


[00:18:05] Dr. Michael Greger: Those diseases for which we didn’t think that they were reversible. For example, we didn’t think heart disease was reversible until Pritikin came along and showed that was indeed the case. Diabetic retinopathy, diabetic blindness, we thought that was irreversible you go worse, worse, worse and you go blind. No, that can be reversed with a healthy diet. There are two case reports that just came out suggesting that, caught early enough, even type one diabetes may be able to help with a healthy diet. There was the first case report in enclosing spondylitis, this horrible autoimmune condition attacking the spine. Never had any data on that, but no, plant-based diet helps with that too. No surprise an anti-inflammatory diet helps an inflammatory condition. Those are the most exciting things, these kinds of reversal. We have new data on lupus, which is another autoimmune condition with beneficial effects not just for kidney function, which we had already known, but for other symptoms as well. Crohn’s disease, multiple sclerosis, these are just really exciting to see diseases for which there were no good options. Where the traditional approaches have such downsides in terms of adverse effects. That’s really the most exciting work out there.


[00:19:30] Ashley James: What question am I not asking that you would love to answer?


[00:19:34] Dr. Michael Greger: I don’t know. What’s nutrition facts? Nutrition facts is a free, non-profit, science-based public service providing daily updates in the latest nutritional research via bite-sized videos—more than 1000 videos. Nearly every aspect of healthy eating with new videos and articles uploaded every day—are the latest in evidence-based nutrition. What a concept—nutritionfacts.org.


[00:20:00] Ashley James: For those who are not used to the whole food plant-based diet but are intrigued, can you share what do you eat? What do you eat? What have you eaten in the last 24 hours? What do you eat? Maybe you could share a recipe, one of your favorite recipes that would get people excited about trying to eat more plants.


[00:20:22] Dr. Michael Greger: The daily dozen is what I eat. That’s the reason the Daily Dozen came around because I wanted to eat an evidence-based diet and so I’m just sharing that with everybody. In terms of what I eat in 24 hours, I had a big bowl of miso soup for lunch and some cherries. It’s cherry season and oh my god they’re delicious. Then this morning I had my prebiotic mix, which is a combination of oat groats, purple barley, rye berries, and Beluga lentils mixed with cocoa powder, dark sweet frozen cherries. It was kind of like choco berry cherry action with some nuts and seeds. That was delicious. What did I have last night? Last night I had these blue corn tortillas, which I toasted mixed with a fajita mix, which was onions, peppers, black beans, salsa, and some hummus to make it kind of creamy with some adobo sauce, and some smoked jalapeno peppers. It was nice and spicy. Threw a whole bunch of greens in there. A tortilla kind of action.

In terms of what might be particularly motivating, I think it’s important to realize there’s only one diet ever proven to reverse heart disease in the majority of patients—it’s a plant-based diet. Anytime anyone tries to sell you on some new diet, do me a favor, just ask them a simple question. Wait a second, is this new diet improving to reverse heart disease, the number one reason me and all my loved ones will die? If the answer is no, why would you even consider it? If that’s all a plant-based diet could do—reverse the number one killer of men and women. Isn’t that going to be the default diet to be proven otherwise? In fact, that can also be so effective in preventing resting reversing other leading killers like high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. It would seem to make the case for plant-based eating simply overwhelming.


[00:22:46] Ashley James: I love that you mentioned your app, Dr. Greger’s Daily Dozen. I have that on my phone. I think it’s a really cool app and I definitely recommend it. I’ve had Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn on the show. I just love, love that he so clearly says here’s the way to eat to reverse heart disease—being a cardiologist still practicing. I think he’s 86. I’m sure you guys are friends. But what’s really frustrating is I’ve had other cardiologists on the show who say we should drink a liter of olive oil a week, that it’s the most healthy thing we could possibly do for our heart. I’m really frustrated because when I learned the damages that oil can have on the body, can you just talk about is oil healthy, is it not healthy? How do we get healthy fats? Could we become fat-deprived by not eating fat? Can you just demystify fat and oil for us?


[00:23:37] Dr. Michael Greger: Oil is kind of the white sugar of the fat kingdom. You take something like a sugar beet, which is really healthy. You remove all the nutrition and you’re left with just sugar, so it’s empty calories. Same thing. You take a walnut, remove all the nutrition, you’re left with walnut oil, and it’s just empty calories. There are a few fat-soluble nutrients like vitamin E, but basically, just throw a lot of fiber, throw out the minerals, and throw out the rest of the nutrition. It’s like why would you do that? If you want to eat olive oil, fine, eat an olive. The problem is, there’s too much sodium in it, so eat an avocado, eat nuts and seeds, or eat whole food sources. How are we going to get carbohydrates? Whole plant food sources. How are we going to get proteins? Whole food plant source. How are we going to get fat? Whole food plant sources. Are these the healthiest? Not only because the stuff that doesn’t have cholesterol, saturated fat, and hormones—all that blah, blah, blah, blah. There are all the beneficial things that you want like antioxidants, fiber, and vital nutrients.

There are some essential fats: omega 3s, omega 6s, but that’s one of the reasons I recommend people to eat a tablespoon of ground flax seeds today to get their alpha-lipoic acid and omega-3 fatty acid, which is important for protecting against cardiovascular disease.


[00:24:51] Ashley James: My dad died of obesity and heart disease, but he survived my mother who was seemingly healthier—died of cancer at age 55. That was the shocker in our family. She died very quickly of liver cancer because she was very healthy on the outside. We want to obviously probably prevent heart disease—being the number one killer. We obviously want to prevent infection. That’s the big focus right now. Many people are turning to comfort foods and alcohol to just get through this crazy time, which in turn is actually hurting them more. Cancer is one of those big things that looms over us, at least over me. Something even scarier than heart disease. What can we do to reverse cancer? If someone has cancer, what evidence-based nutrition should they do to reverse cancer?


[00:25:47] Dr. Michael Greger: After Dr. Dean Ornish conquered our number one killer, heart disease, he moved on to killer number two, cancer. Took a group of men with early-stage prostate cancer, put them on the same kind of diet that reversed heart disease. For the first time ever showed that diet and lifestyle intervention could reverse the progression of cancer as measured by PSA levels, which is a proxy for tumor volume. In the control group that was told to just eat whatever your doctor was telling you, the tumors continued to grow. Whereas in the group that was randomized to a plant-based diet and lifestyle program, the tumor shrank on average— first men ever shown. The nice thing about diet is regardless of what other choices you make in terms of whether you are doing radiotherapy or chemotherapy, you can always eat healthier.


[00:26:37] Ashley James: Very interesting. Should we limit the amount of nuts and seeds like the plant-based fats or could someone go eat as many peanuts, for example, as they want to? Even though it’s plant-based, is there a ratio of carbs to fat to protein that is optimal?


[00:26:56] Dr. Michael Greger: The most important thing is a source, not the quantity. As long as you’re getting your macronutrients from whole plant sources, that’s the most important thing. I mean the only way you could overeat nuts is if that’s all you ate. Obviously, that wouldn’t be a good thing. But I encourage people to eat an ounce of it a day. It’s like a palm-full of nuts. A critically important one of the few foods along with dark and leafy from vegetables associated with literally years of an extended lifespan.



[00:27:28] Ashley James: Peanuts are not nuts, they’re legumes, right?


[00:27:31] Dr. Michael Greger: That’s true but they’re nutritionally similar enough that they actually have the same type benefits. The downside is that when we expose nuts and seeds to high dry heat, it produces these advanced glycation end-products. When you expose high protein fat foods to high heats, you get these AGEs, which we want to minimize. That’s why I encourage people to eat their nuts and seeds raw, but you can’t really find raw peanut butter, for example. But you can find raw almond butter, so that would be a better choice.


[00:28:00] Ashley James: You can make your own if you have a Vitamix or something.


[00:28:03] Dr. Michael Greger: You can make your own, exactly.


[00:28:05] Ashley James: That was my question was the high heat or the roasted nuts. We just need to basically eat the raw ones to preserve healthy fats. My last question, because I know you have to go, autoimmune disease is on the rise. Some autoimmune conditions are exacerbated by nightshades and some grains. What do we do to help people with autoimmune disease to recover?


[00:28:28] Dr. Michael Greger: You put them on a whole food plant-based diet. The most powerful intervention that’s ever been published in the peer-reviewed medical literature for multiple sclerosis and autoimmune disease where you take your own nerves. The most powerful intervention for Crohn’s disease, an autoimmune inflammatory bowel disease. We now have data for benefits for ulcerative colitis, lupus ankylosing spondylitis, rheumatoid arthritis. You name the autoimmune condition and the odds are, we have data supporting an anti-inflammatory diet, which is essentially synonymous with a plant-based diet. It’s true, there’s an autoimmune disease known as the celiac disease for which gluten can be an inflammatory trigger. For those rare 1 in 140 or so people, need to stay away from gluten-containing grains like wheat, barley, and rye, but those are healthy foods for the vast majority of people. People with joint pain, about 1 in 20, feel better after cutting nightshades out. So hey, might as well worth a try, but if it doesn’t help your joint pain, I would put those super healthy foods back into one’s diet.


[00:29:51] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Greger, for coming on the show today. It has been such a pleasure to have you here. Leave us with some homework. Leave us with some actionable steps we can take today to improve our health.


[00:30:01] Dr. Michael Greger: Oh my God. You should go to your local public library get How Not to Die, How Not to Diet, and How to Survive a Pandemic.


[00:30:10] Ashley James: And go to nutritionfacts.org and pour through your thousands of videos.


[00:30:14] Dr. Michael Greger: Do it.


[00:30:16] Ashley James: Thank you so much. It has been such a pleasure having on the show today. You’re welcome back anytime.


[00:30:21] Dr. Michael Greger: Keep up the good work.


[00:30:25] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Dr. Li. Please share it with those you care about. Let’s get this information out to help as many people as possible to learn true health. Come join the Facebook group. Search Learn True Health on Facebook or go to learntruehealth.com/group and join the Facebook group. It’s a wonderfully supportive community. We’re all in this together to learn what we can do to tweak our diet, our lifestyle, supplements whatever we can do to just switch it over to build the body into a place that develops health instead of disease. We can heal the body. The body has an amazing ability to heal itself. Even if you’ve been told you’re going to have this for the rest of your life, I have met so many people, myself included, who have reversed diseases and illnesses that they were told by doctors they’d always have for the rest of their life.

So don’t give up hope. Instead, dive in, listen to more episodes of the Learn True Health podcast, and come join the Facebook group. There is hope. As long as you’re living and breathing, as long as you have a pulse, your body can heal itself. You can do many things to support your body’s ability to heal itself. I’m so happy that you’re here to learn how you can optimize your health through every meal, through every breath. There are so many things you can do mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, and energetically. That’s exactly what this podcast is here to help you with.

So please, dive in, keep listening, and make sure that you share this episode and share the podcast with those you love so we can help as many people as possible, and come join the Facebook group so that you can keep learning and keep asking questions and keep growing. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.


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