Dr. Greg Eckel And Ashley James


  • Greg Eckel’s backstory
  • ADHD spectrum
  • How oxidative stress affects our brain health
  • Heavy metal toxicity and how we can detoxify our body
  • Greg Eckel’s FAN-C approach to brain health
  • Healthy habits to promote brain health



0:00 Intro: Hello, true health seekers and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. You’re going to love today’s interview with Dr. Greg Eckel. He is a Naturopathic physician that specializes in helping people heal and support neurological conditions. We’re going to talk about Parkinson’s, ADHD, and how to support the body if someone’s experiencing any of these issues, or if you want to prevent, because prevention is the most important thing we can do. He goes through his functional program, and the things that you can start doing today to support your body’s ability to be the healthiest it can possibly be. Now, he mentions a few things. And I really want to make sure that you know about the things that I love that he sees great results working with his clients. So there’s three quick things I want to mention.



0:58 Ashley James: One, he talks about the impact and importance of using saunas, if you have heavy metal toxicity, because you can sweat in a sauna to help the body remove fat soluble toxins instead of having to tax your liver and that can have a host of problems for people, especially if they already are bombarded with toxins. So, we have an environment that has created heavy metal toxicity in many people, and if you have any neurological conditions such as ADHD, depression, any kind of imbalance, or if you know that genetically in your family, a lot of people are predisposed to developing Parkinson’s or MS, you want to support a healthy brain by doing gentle detox through sauna therapy. You can go to my website www.learntruehealth.com, type in sauna. Listen to some of my interviews that we’ve done specifically around how to use sauna therapy and how to sweat to release these toxins in a gentle way.

I got a Sunlighten Sauna almost two years ago and I have absolutely loved it. It’s played a big role in my personal healing journey. I really feel a difference. And using it has made such an impact on my life that I keep telling people about it. Sunlighten has given us a great deal. Give them a call and say that you are a listener of the Learn True Health podcast with Ashley James. And they always have a special for us, they give us free shipping and sometimes the shipping is $500, if you buy one of the wind saunas.

Now, they do have a personal sauna that’s portable, that you can tuck away into your closet. We’re not using it and it is non toxic and ultra low EMF and you get results with it. So, you don’t have to worry about having enough space. I interviewed Dr. Mark Hyman on the show and he said that he lives in a small condo, he doesn’t have enough space for a big wooden sauna. And so he has their solo system and it works wonderfully. I do have the wooden one because we did have the space and I love the three in one sauna, which gives you all three frequencies. Many saunas only do far infrared, theirs does near and mid which gives you anti aging benefits as well, and pain and inflammation reducing benefits as well.

So, check out Sunlighten Saunas, give them a call. Tell them you’re a listener of the Learn True Health podcast with Ashley James and ask about their specials on top of the free shipping. They usually have some kind of great deal in addition to that that they give us. I like it when they give $100 off their accessories because I love the non toxic bamboo pad for the wooden sauna that’s really comfortable. Excellent. So that was the first thing because he talks about the results he’s getting in his clinic with his patients using sauna therapy.

The second one is Medterra CBD, I really recommend checking out Medterra CBD, they give the listeners a great discount as well use coupon code LTH. I interviewed the founder of Medterra CBD, there’s so many CBD companies out there and there’s only a handful that are organic that will publish their tests to prove that there’s no heavy metals, that their CBD is clean. And I’ve personally used many different types of CBDs and theirs I feel in terms of a tincture, in terms of that concentrated extract, I get the best results. So that’s Medterra CBD, use the coupon code LTH because they do give us a great discount. And you can go to www.learntruehealth.com, type in CBD to listen to that interview to learn more about their farming practices and how they make it, knowing that it is a very clean form of CBD. And it’s also guaranteed that there’s no THC. So if you do drug testing, you can know that and he does talk about that in our interview.

And the third thing is the magnesium soak. And he also talks today, Dr. Eckel talks today about how important magnesium is for brain health. And know that you can soak in magnesium and gain the benefits without needing to take a supplement orally. Because many people have adverse reactions to taking an oral magnesium supplement. But when you soak in it, you can absorb grams of magnesium and get all the benefits in a very gentle way. So, listen to my interview with Kristen Bowen. I’ve done a few interviews with her, she was 78 pounds I believe and having 30 seizures a day. And soaking and magnesium was one of the most important things she did to get her health back. So, it absolutely helps with neurological conditions because the brain needs magnesium. Just like many other nutrients that Dr. Eckel talks about today. You can go to www.livingthegoodlifenaturally.com, that is the magnesium soak website, www.livingthegoodlifenaturally.com, click on the magnesium soak jug picture when it first comes up and then use the coupon code LTH as in Learn True Health. LTH gives you a discount, and then you can get that jug of magnesium.

Come into the Learn True Health Facebook group. We’d love to see you there ,you can ask questions of the other listeners who have Sunlighten saunas, who’ve tried Medterra CBD or who use the magnesium soak. Many listeners are using all three and getting some great results. And Dr. Eckel shares that and many other suggestions today. So enjoy today’s show. Thank you so much for being a listener and have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.



6:46 Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn true health podcast. I’m your host Ashley James. This is Episode 377.

We are back from this summer. Labor Day just happened. I am super stoked to get back into interviewing. Listeners who are in our Facebook group were telling me that they’ve been jonesing, they missed the show and I took a little vacation for about a week and hung out with my son and my husband and we went swimming and got lots of sun and it was wonderful. But I couldn’t wait to come back and interview Dr. Greg Eckel who’s a Naturopathic physician in Portland, Oregon, he specializes in neurology. You are going to love today’s interview. I’m so excited to have Dr. Eckel here to share with us how we can prevent and reverse and support people who are experiencing Parkinson’s, MS and other neurological conditions like migraines, traumatic brain injuries, headaches, and even post stroke recovery. This is going to be exciting. Welcome to the show.



7:56 Dr. Greg Eckel: Thank you.



7:57 Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love dive in to learn a bit more about the doctor before the doctor starts teaching us about how we can better heal our bodies. Because understanding what happened in your life that led you to become the physician and the healer that you are allows us to understand the philosophy and the lens at which you look through life and in order to help us. So what happened in your life that made you want to become a Naturopathic physician?



8:28 Dr. Greg Eckel: Well, in the early 90s in Portland, Oregon, I was a preschool teacher. And I was watching at that point, I was in the Montessori education system.



8:39 Ashley James: Nice.



8:40 Dr. Greg Eckel: And it was the beginning of the attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder, you know, onslaught and big pharma had discovered, “Hey, there’s this untapped market called children, let’s drug them.” And it was really disheartening. You know, I was an assistant in a classroom. I had my poster child was this boy, Michael, and he was definitely, he was rambunctious, I like to say, included others in his learning. And, you know, he was definitely wild guy out on the playground, in the classroom, you know, in the Montessori classroom you can choose your own material and bring it back to your desk. So Michael was always kind of in at other people’s tables. The head teacher advocated to the parents, “Hey, I think Michael has some attentional issues, I think you should go get them checked out.”

They took them to the pediatrician. Lo and behold, they diagnosed him with attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder, and then they medicated him with Ritalin. And the first day that he got back in the classroom, you know, definitely he’s slumped over in his chair. He definitely stayed put, he was in his chair and at his table, but that little light that shines shine in the eye was gone. And I just thought there’s got to be a better way to help these kids. And at that time, I also was a junk food vegetarian. And I wasn’t feeling very healthy. And a bunch of paths led me to the Naturopathic school where these people, these physicians, they treated my diet. And boy, it was it was like a light bulb went on. Like, “Wow, actually, if I went back to school, I wanted to be in service to people.”

And so many different paths led me into Naturopathic medicine. So, not a day goes by that I’m not grateful for the for the experience. And I just thought I really got into helping kids with attentional issues when I started, but that’s really what took me there was that picture of Michael just being really just drugged and slumped over and saw the sparkle gone out of his eye.


10:57 Ashley James: So what happened to Michael, do they just keep dragging him? Or did they try…



11:02 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah. They just basically, you know, it would be great to follow up. I got into medical school, he was my poster child and motivation for going through, in addition to family members and other people with health issues. But what I discovered, I got into neurofeedback, and that’s kind of what led me into neurology and studying the brain at that point. So that was 1996. I got my license in 2001. But we really, you look at the stats on these medications now, you know, I talked to counselors too, in the high schools, and over half the kids are on some type of attentional medication, and it’s almost like the kids have to be on them to keep up with the workload and demands. You know, these are drugs that get traded at parties to keep people awake. And I mean, it’s interesting how ubiquitous nowadays in the culture, for just having those attentional issues.



12:06 Ashley James: That’s really sad. I’ve done a few interviews with people who shared about their childhood experiences. I remember off the top of my head, with guests who shared their experiences with being put on these drugs when they were kids, and that’s what led them to want to become Holistic Health practitioners, because of the adverse side effects, and the horrible nightmares and suicidal thoughts. I mean, don’t, if a drug is going to make your teenager want to kill themselves, you know, because that’s the side effect.

I mean, there’s something serously wrong here. And then we’ll continue to let them eat Cheetos, and  whatever junk food, we’ll keep them on the standard American American diet ,or standard Canadian diet, standard Australian diet, wherever we are, it’s pretty much the standardized flour, sugar oil, hyper palatable foods that are horrible for the nervous system and just jack up the brain. And then we drug them down. It’s kind of like taking uppers and downers, the uppers are the food, the downers are the drugs. And it’s a perfect system that the big pharma gets to profit from.

But when a child like Michael, and we put them on a whole foods plant based diet and remove the flour, remove the sugar, remove the hyper palatable foods, the spark is back in their eyes, and they feel so much more grounded in their own body. I recently interviewed an expert on nootropics, and he had adult ADHD. And getting on Ritalin was life changing for him. He loved it, he was so happy to be on it. But then his body became resistant to it. And then all of a sudden his thyroid just went completely through the floor and he got dementia, because he had such low thyroid. And it turns out it was a side effect of being on Ritalin for so many years. Have you ever heard that, about that Ritalin, being on these drugs can really drastically affect our hormone system?



14:15 Dr. Greg Eckel: Well, sure, yah. You know, the medications are always counter intuitive. Like we’re giving legalize speed to kids that have hyperactivity issues. And really, when it works, it works for 5% of the population. And you know, so that gentleman that you interviewed is probably one in the 5%. I mean, the medications really do help you hyper focus, but what it’s doing is it’s waking up your prefrontal cortex. And that’s what the hyperactivity is a symptom of is, the child or the person is trying to wake themselves up because they have a low functioning cortical brainwaves. And so the medication wakes that up and is turning it back on. That’s why it helps with your focus. So you’re just taking legalized speed. So that’s speeding up of your metabolism.

So then your hypothalamus has to balance that out, kind of the switchboard operator there in the middle, which is maintaining homeostasis, kind of coordinating your nervous system and your hormones. And so that’s kind of the link of where that would come together for the individual that then kind of have thyroid issues was out of the hypothalamus level of trying to balance out because they’re getting this speed, which is ramping up the nervous system. And so the counterbalance is in the hormone realm.


15:39 Ashley James: Right, because the hypothalamus to stimulate the pituitary to create the thyroid…



15:49 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



15:50 Ashley James: Basically, the hypothalamus is all the way at the top going, “Okay, thyroid, make your stuff. Okay, adrenal is make your stuff. Okay. You know, gonads make your stuff.” And so if you’re taking the ADD medication, it’s affecting the part of your brain that controls all your hormones.



16:09 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



16:11 Ashley James: That can be very dangerous down the road. But if you go to an MD, and this is me on my soapbox, if you go to an MD, they’re treating symptoms. So we’re going to treat five different symptoms of five drugs then you’ve got lots of side effects from those when it actually is a hypothalamus issue. Because of that, it was a side effect originally of the ADD medication. And so you might end up with problems with the ability to produce your hormones, sex hormones later in life, your steroidal hormones later in life, your thyroid hormone. You might end up with all these different conditions all resulting from the ADD medication of long term use, which we don’t want. And then everyone that’s listening wants to do things naturally and support the body coming back into balance. So when someone feels like they have ADD, what they need to do is wake up the frontal cortex. What can we do to stimulate healthfully naturally the frontal cortex?



17:11 Dr. Greg Eckel: Well, that’s one piece of it, right? So attentional issues, there’s about nine different facets to attention and so when you look at it, the medication is only working for a small subset. And when you look at what the outcomes research shows is, it doesn’t change IQ, it doesn’t actually change outcomes in schooling. You know, so it is totally placating symptoms, people feel more in tune or maybe more flow and those are the folks that have that hypo functioning prefrontal cortex. So that’s a small subset of folks, but you look at what can you do naturally? Of course, eating a whole foods diet, getting the processed foods out, decreasing your sugar content, you know, the the non sexy, but vital components, which is, food is your best medicine. So looking at that, exercise, right? You get the blood flow. Well, what travels in the blood is the healing properties of the body. So you inform what’s in the blood, but then you get the circulation going as well.

One of the things that I got in on one a little bit bigger with, you know, if your child is having significant issues in the classroom, you can get into neurofeedback, so I did that in the clinic here at Nature Cures for six years, which is hooking electrodes up, you get feedback visually from a computer screen, and you are basically training certain wave frequencies, so it’s waking your brain up, and naturally you’re just doing it via a biofeedback or neurofeedback loop.



18:55 Ashley James: I love that. I did an interview, I feel like about two years ago with a man that created a biofeedback company. And he said it was like the kids are playing video games with their brain. They hook it up to their brain, and they stare at a monitor. And they’re watching, like what they do with their brain moves the things on the screen, so it feels like a video game. And then they get amazing results. And he had actually, he started it because he’s working with nonverbal children on the spectrum of autism, and doing the biofeedback, they were able to help them improve to the point of like, being able to feed themselves, clothe themselves, talk, I mean, it was amazing. The kind of results. Yeah, he was working with, I think something like big university study, and then that motivated him to go out and start his own company. And now anyone can go and do it. But it’s really fun, what we’re seeing with the brain, and with neurofeedback. And so you started doing that, it also reminds me of a Pediatric Occupational therapist I’m friends with who told me that on the playgrounds, you know, when we were kids, there are swings, and then there’s the tire swing that goes around, right?

Now, she says it’s a crime that a lot of schools are taking swings away, because she said that the children will self regulate. And you’ve probably seen children do this, where they’ll spin around in a circle, they just no to spin around till they get dizzy. Or they’ll ask you to spin them around, or they’ll get on that tire swing, or they’ll get on the you know, that merry go round that some places still have, some park still have. And they’ll just spin and spin and spin. And she says, neurologically, when they need their brain to kind of be ramped up, they know to spin themselves, and children who like to get on the swing, and just gently go back and forth. They need to calm down their nervous system. It’s funny because that’s totally me, I always went on the swing, I just needed to be calmed and brought down. And she said that children would go in recess and they would sort of self regulate their nervous system, whether they need to be ramped up or ramped down. And now they’re cutting recess times, they’re taking these things out of the playgrounds, and so children are unable to self regulate as well.



21:24 Dr. Greg Eckel: Oh, yeah, totally. That makes total sense. Or even them cutting PE class, physical education so that’s not occurring anymore, right? And then the kids get more ramped up, they’re not able to self correct. And then there’s more medication prescribed, right? Like, oh, what a catch 22 here.



21:44 Ashley James: Right. Right. So, you were mentioning the non sexy ways that children can better help themselves by eating a good diet. And you know, getting enough sleep, not allowing your children to drink caffeine, caffeinated, beverages or sugar, making sure they go to bed on time, I would say also, decreasing screen time as well is a big one, because that does really ramp up their nervous system. And then the biofeedback, can you give us a few more things that you have seen work really well for children with ADHD before we move on to talk about Parkinson’s?



22:23 Dr. Greg Eckel: Sure. Well, I want to really reiterate on the screen time as well. I mean, there was a big summit that I participated in called the Digital Dementia Summit, there’s research coming out of France showing kids gray matter of their brain is shrinking similar to dementia, with screen time greater than seven hours a day, and some kids are on screens greater than seven hours a day. And we’re seeing on imaging, on brain imaging that their brains are looking as if they have dementia of a 65 year old. So this is a significant component, of course, coming from the Naturopathic physician is getting out in nature, let them get their hands and feet dirty, have them run around without shoes, as long as that’s a safe thing to do.

You know, and really get out and actually, for the adults to go out and play with them. I think just fostering more play, more imaginative, more imagination as well, just outside in the natural world. These are big things. And we live in the northwest of the United States where it rains for a good portion of the year. But as my kids say, there’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad gear. And so you should be able to get out in any climate and get out into nature. You know, it’s really important.



23:53 Ashley James: I interviewed a man who’s lost, I believe 200 pounds now, it’s more than 200 pounds. I just interviewed him a few months ago. And I think he was like close to 500 pounds three years ago. And he lives in Canada, in Alberta, where they get crazy weather. And he started walking every day no matter what, no matter the weather. And at first I mean, he was so uncomfortable being you know, 500 pounds, right? And he just did it, he’s got out and walked in negative 30 degrees, in blizzard or raining or super hot hundred degree weather. He just did it every day as much as he could. And then that end, stopping eating sugar and flour for lots of vegetables. And yeah, he just he’s so healthy now. He says he’ll never ever miss a day of walking again.

And that really inspired me, that I realized how many excuses I bring up whenever I want to go outside. I see one cloud, “Oh no, it’s too cloudy. I’m not going to go outside.” So I need to like you know, suck it up and get out there. Just this morning right before the interview I took my son to a You Pick Farm and we met some friends and we picked zucchini, and kale and corn and potatoes and all kinds of great stuff that we basically bought a week’s worth of vegetables for $30, all organic and it’s fresh out of the ground. And my son picked bugs and ate kale right off the plant. And yeah, that is unbelievable. So great. I definitely recommend people check out farmers markets and You Pick Farms and take your kids with you because it is it’s fun, and they can run around. And it’s so much better than TV. And we brought kids that never eat vegetables and they were eating vegetables. When kids can actually touch them growing out of the ground, they’ll eat them. So we had a lot of fun doing that. And it’s really allowed me to have a great appreciate for the farmers that grow our food, because it takes a lot of work to pull it out of the ground. Any other advice around ADHD for children before we move on?



26:11 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah, sure. A big one on brain nutrient, this will touch base with the neurologic discussion later, is our omega three fatty acids and in particular DHA. They’re lacking in all of our diets and DHA is that active constituent of those omega threes that feed the brain and children respond beautifully to those. They’re anti inflammatory, they soothe the brain, they hit the satiety center, they help with energy and focus. And they’re just major brain food, so that that would be a biggie to look at, investigate your diet.



26:50 Ashley James: Yeah, what’s the best way to get it in our diet? Because you know, everyone says fish oil, I’m not opposed to fish oil, it’s just, you know, there’s so many low quality fish oils out there. And since the fish get their EFAs from algae, we could just skip the murdering fish and go straight to the algae. So, I don’t know what is the best way to get DHA?



27:13 Dr. Greg Eckel: Well, the algae oil is a great way to do it. But the DHA these, the DHA and EPA are the active constituents. And so you know, as a past vegetarian for over half my life as well. You know, flax oil, etc. These are hard, they’re higher omega threes, but we’re only converting a certain percentage of those into DHA and EPA. So it’s about a 1% to 5% of total omega threes from plant based sources, 1% to 5% go into DHA, and about 5% to 15% go into EPA. And those are the ones that we have the most research on. Now I’m a whole plant practitioner, I love the whole plant. So definitely getting it that way, flax seeds, chia seeds, these have omega three fatty acids in them, it just you know, you would have to be consuming so much of those plants to get an adequate dose of EPA and DHA in particular for the brain. So I definitely, I do recommend supplementing those.

You want to know your source, a lot of companies do a really good job of screening for heavy metal toxicity, pesticides, etc. Because these fish do bio accumulate toxins and fat. So you definitely want to know your source. You know, one of the better ones out on the market, at least in the states is Nordic Naturals, I have no affiliation with the company. I just like their product. But you want to know your source for sure. So, it’s not like go to the bulk discount supplement store and and get those because, you know, you really don’t know what you’re getting. And you could do more harm than good with that.



29:06 Ashley James: There’s only a handful of companies that will make their fish oil supplements in a nitrogen chamber, which prevents the oil from oxidizing and that’s one of the companies that I get my EFAs from, does that and so that’s my big recommendation for quality is to find out if your company does it, produces the EFA in a nitrogen chamber to prevent the oxygen from oxidizing the oil. So you’re saying if children have ADHD, the best way to get DHA into them for their brain health is through fish oil, because they would have to consume so much flax and chia?



29:45 Dr. Greg Eckel: Correct. Yeah, it would be really hard for them to get adequate levels to actually make a difference there. Yeah.



29:52 Ashley James: I eat plant based and my husband’s vegan, but we’re not dogmatic. You know what I mean?


30:00 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah. Sometimes it’s a medicinal quality and that’s kind of the distinction we made in my household as well. If it’s a medicinal quality item, it might be something that you want to look at, because that’s a big, that’s a showstopper, you know, they’re called essential as essentially, we can’t make them in our bodies, we can only get them from our food. And so that’s one aspect that you want to look at.



30:29 Ashley James: And why is DHA and EPA so important? Is it because 70% of the brain is made from these healthy fats? I’ve heard that like, I think 70% of the white matter of the brain is made from cholesterol. So it’s like a major part of the brain is made from these fats. Is it because the brain is made from it, so we’re just building healthy brain? Or does it play a different role in protecting it?



30:51 Dr. Greg Eckel: We really could call each other fat heads, and it is a fat storage, and we need these really beneficial fats to help with as building blocks for more fat. So these are essential in a lot of different processes. It’s not that DHA is the substance that the brain is made of, but it is definitely the brain food of choice. Yeah.



31:15 Ashley James: Awesome. So, you must have some really great experiences helping children recover from this, like, YouTube dementia and ADHD.



31:30 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



31:32 Ashley James: But you’ve also have great, great experience helping adults recover from Parkinson’s and MS, and other neurological conditions. Let’s talk about that.



31:45 Dr. Greg Eckel: Sure. Well, this is more recent, so I’ve been in practice since 2001. So, I still have a very eclectic practice here at Nature Cures Clinic in Portland. And you kind of fast forward through about 15, 16 years of clinical practice. And lo and behold, my wife gets a very rare neurological condition called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease which is a preonic activity of the brain, very rare one in a million people about 300 cases a year in North America. And you know, as loving husband and physician, trying to swing for the fence of like, well, there’s no known cure for this. The diagnosis is basically wait until she dies and then we’ll do a brain autopsy and will confirm the diagnosis. It was just crazy and you know, she did pass last year.



32:54 Ashley James: I’m so sorry to hear that.



32:56  Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah, thank you. You know, it’s been, you know, life is full contact. And I think things happen for reasons and I just definitely lifted the veil for me on the illusion of our world and kind of reinstated my faith, you know, big things, like it was a big process that I’ve gone through, and what I’ve got, as a result, definitely a lot of heartfelt gratitude for this world, and our plane of existence and the physicality of our bodies and the planet and our universe. And I’d like to say as I lecture and speak, we have this illusion of separateness, and we really are all one, just pretending to be separate in this current time. And this process, this process that I went through really solidified that for me, and I’ve wound up with a bunch of gifts, what I’m calling Soraya’s gifts, that’s her name. It was her name, Soraya, and, you know, what do you say, I mean, life happens, I’m not the first person to lose the love of their life, but it definitely is humbling when it happens to you. And I’ve got just newfound energy, purpose, passion, focused to help more people, it really solidified my purpose and service to others and share what I’ve learned along the way, and so on as a practitioner, and as a being on the planet, definitely.

Sometimes I feel like I’m an ambassador for grief. You know, we don’t do grief very well as a culture and I guess I’m more comfortable with it. So as it arises, I’m fine sharing and showing and just being with it. And so I think definitely has informed me as a practitioner with more empathy for others and what they are going through. And just as a being on the planet, having a loss, and, you know, grief touches on grief for a lot of people. So it’s interesting to see what surfaces for others when you bring up a loss like this. And I went looking for solutions and remedies and it really didn’t have, there’s no known cure, and you look at chronic neurodegeneration, and there’s no known cure across the board.

We’re talking Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease  which is mad cow syndrome, and people, it’s scrappy, and goats. It’s Chronic Wasting Disease and dear. So these preonic activities, which are misfolded proteins in central nervous system and brain matter. Well, you get in on the preonic diseases textbook, which I have the second edition of that. And you realize, oh, all of these neurodegenerative states; dementia, Alzheimer’s anxiety can be categorized in here as well, can be related to preonic activity, which are misfolded proteins. And we don’t have great solutions for that, which you know, is evidence for Parkinson’s.

I started with Parkinson’s, I have a book coming out called Shake It Off: An Integrative Approach To Parkinson’s Syndrome, or Parkinson’s Solutions. And with that, we look at what can we do for these folks, and I put it in on my clinic, the different things that I was learning for Soraya. And lo and behold, we’re getting results for folks. I’m not saying I’m curing Parkinson’s, but we are showing improvement of quality of life, we’re showing reversal, stability, halting symptom development, reversal of symptom development, and improvement of functioning. And so these are very encouraging things.

We’ve got some time to put in on really perfecting the protocol, but I did develop, it’s called a FAN-C approach to Parkinson’s, capital FAN-C so FAN-C, we can talk about that in a moment. But it all comes out of my personal trials and tribulations of helping, looking for solutions and a chronic disease that doesn’t have any answers. So, I was talking to the world’s experts on preonic activities, got in touch with Case Western here in the United States, where they have the Preonic Surveillance Center of North America, didn’t even know one existed in their study, it’s an observational study. They have had 22 people enrolled in their study.

So, you know, we don’t really have a lot of great information or data and I got to live with that condition for two years. You know, it’s a rapidly progressing dementia, in two months time, Soraya, she was a certified nurse, midwife, nurse practitioner here in the clinic, and, you know, radical women’s health care provider, you know, just had such joy and love for people. And never had in a million years would you think a woman would come out of her annual exam kind of dancing and singing and laughing. And it’s like, wow, like, what a gift Soraya had for people. So, she was this sharp, sharp practitioner, and all of a sudden started having memory issues, and we wound up in the clinic staying later and she had been in practice for five years at that point. Like, “Hey, honey, what what is up?” Like, never have we stayed, you know, like, I get it, you’re being meticulous with your notes, but what is going on?

So, we started looking at maybe some perimenopause hormone changes, or maybe mold issues. You look at things that could be creating memory issues for folks, and you kind of go down these rabbit holes of most prominent issues. And after about a month of that I started taking her, it’s like, “Gosh, this is beyond what I can do here.” It’s not these things, it’s not hormone imbalance, it’s not mold toxicity. You know, it’s not a level of toxicity. So, you know, go out into Western approach just to get some ideas, and they’re all saying it’s a psychotic break, and it’s like, this is not a psychotic break. This woman was top of her game just a month ago. And so, it kind of went through that process and then the differential starts getting more ominous and ominous of like, oh, it could be autoimmune encephalitis or Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

So during this time, Soraya’s in rapid decline, and then basically in two months time, she’s not able to talk like she’s gone into total dementia. And, you know, it’s like, wow, we’re nonverbal. We can’t communicate now. It’s like, what in the world is going on? So, it was really a tough, tough go and we surrounded her with lots of love and I did a little swing for the fences, a baseball analogy of, you know, let me dig deep here and see what I can come up with and the trail I’ve got this component of Soraya’s gifts of I think we can help a lot of people with chronic neurodegeneration as a result of this. Unfortunately, it didn’t help her out. But, we’ve got, you know, maybe trying to turn my personal tragedy into this gift for the world. And so that’s what we’re putting forth.



41:26 Ashley James: Now, I always thought mad cow disease or mad cow syndrome was transmissible, meaning it could be passed on from one person to another, from one animal to another. Is this something she caught?



41:41 Dr. Greg Eckel: Well, so that’s the million dollar question. And when you read about preons, they always put this infectious prion before this adjective. And I think it’s incorrect to think of it as an infectious agent. Now, I say that it’s total theory on my part, but it’s a theory on their part as well. So Stanley Prusiner out of a lab in California, he got the Nobel Prize in 1987 in medicine for the discovery of these prion. And he was really uniquely positioned to be one of the only people on the planet to be able to figure this out. He was a bench biochemist. And at the time, they thought prions were a virus like a retrovirus. And he had spent 20, 30 years in the lab studying viruses and bacteria. And he said, “You know, these are not behaving like that.” And so he stuck to his guns, but two decades of ridicule and the scientific community for him, thankfully he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine for that. But, you know, he put this infectious adjective there.

So when you read any literature on it, you know, it was it’s also called “Kuru” in Papua New Guinea, there was a tradition where the grandmothers, mothers and girls would eat the brains of the ancestors that passed in honoring and in commemoration and honoring of those that passed. And I think they’ve stopped that tradition, because in the brains were these prions. And so it was a very rapid transmission of prionic activity by ingesting those brains. If it was transmissible from cow to human, in the 80s there were about 3 million pounds of tainted beef that were released in Europe. And there was a slight uptick of Creutzfeldt-Jakob but not to the level that you would expect if these were infectious agents as in something to catch.

Now, there are those scientists that still think that they are infectious, like a virus that they can spread like that. But I think it’s a little bit more complex. And these are not new proteins, I think these are archaic protein structures that have been on the planet since we began. And the reason why I say that is they are so uniquely, what they do is they misfold, these proteins misfold. And when you look at tau proteins and amyloid plaques, and [Inaudible 44:33] nucleon, these are other proteins that are misfolded disorders that are also in dementia and Alzheimer’s and ALS, Parkinson’s. So they’re found in these other conditions of misfolding. Well, what happens is, they get misconfigured and then they start signaling other proteins to start to do that. And that’s I think why they call them “infectious.” And that there’s a signaling unit that happens once they get misfolded. Now, we don’t know. And that’s the issue with these disorders and diagnosis is, is that we don’t know what the causative agent of misfolding is.


45:17 Ashley James: It’s like a domino effect.



45:19  Dr. Greg Eckel: Exactly.



45:20  Ashley James: It’s kind of like cancer. If the body can’t clear it out, well one cancer cell normally… I mean, every day our body clears cancer out. But if we don’t, that one little harmless cancer cell can become a whole tumor very quickly. So the domino effect is that one misfolded protein could trigger others to start misfolding. But why, why isn’t the body clearing them out?



45:45 Dr. Greg Eckel: Right. And they’re not unable to kill, you know, you can’t kill them really, either. So that’s the unique property of these prions is, you know, heat, autoclaving. You know, the traditional ways of denaturing proteins don’t work for these.



46:08 Ashley James: So it sounds like we’re just sort of at the beginning, the Pioneer days of understanding this. Now, you found out… I mean, your wife had a rapid decline, and you found out very deep into her diagnosis what it was. Did you any therapies to prolong her life or ease her symptoms? Did you find anything in time that helped her that you noticed that helped?



46:42 Dr. Greg Eckel: Well, not. No, no. So not in her condition. So, what I put together is a process called the FAN-C approach. So this is for all neurologic conditions, but F stands for functional, so treating whole people, not disease processes. And this is also a very profound difference between Naturopathic medicine and maybe Functional or Integrative practitioners that come from a Western training. In the Naturopathic principles is the body can heal itself, given the right information. And at the point that we’ve got this discovered with Soraya, I just feel like the process, it was so rapid and moving so quickly, that there wasn’t a way to pull it back. You know, really, I went super esoteric to very biochemical.

So, every level of treatment that you could think of, we’ve really put in just two decades in the field, definitely very eclectic practitioner. So, on that functional approach, it’s really kind of a mindset change of, I think one of the issue is, is that everybody’s focused at end stage product or disease. And if you’re only focusing at that, like for Parkinson’s, just focusing on dopamine receptors and the dopamine molecule, it’s far too late. Like we’ve really have to go upstream. And one way of doing that is looking at the assessment. So the A in FAN-C stands for assessment. And this is looking at molecular mimicry, like what else could be causing the symptoms in the body? So I look at viruses; cytomegalovirus, herpes simplex virus, epstein barr virus, these things can mimic these protein misfolding disorders.

We look at hormone balance, because the hormones as we were talking about with attention deficit disorder and stimulating the prefrontal cortex, you know, that comes with into the hypothalamus. Well, that balances the hormones and nervous system there. So hormones, you definitely want to have optimally balanced out for people. Heavy metal toxicity is another one, right? We store toxins in our fat. So we want to look at what gets stored in the fat. So you have to look at, I find cadmium, mercury, arsenic and lead are the top four that I find in my patients, especially with neuro degenerative states. So you gotta get out the proverbial lead, so to speak.



49:32 Ashley James: I have a quick question, if sure cadmium, lead, arsenic, and mercury are stored in the fat tissue of the body, how do you do accurate heavy metal testing? Because I know you can do hair analysis, which really only reflects the last three months. And blood and urine wouldn’t really do it, if it’s stored in the fat. Do you have to do a biopsy of fat?



49:57 Dr. Greg Eckel: You do a chelating agent. Yeah, so one of the things with hair analysis, also, there’s a lot of folks that have issues with metal toxicity, aren’t able to secrete them in the hair follicle, so they’re not able to get them out. And I see that a lot with kids on the autistic spectrum disorder. You know, a lot of practitioners are only doing hair analysis. Well, it doesn’t correlate well. And like you’re saying it’s only three months. And also there’s a genetic component where you’re not able to actually excrete those through the hair follicle or eliminate them yourself. And so they get trapped in the body. And that adds to the issue of the condition.

So what we do, we do a pre and post test, there are different oral chelating agents like DMSA or IV therapy with EDTA, which is the kind of a toxicology route of the agreed upon test to do, which is like a big magnet that goes into the blood that pulls metals, but it also pulls essential minerals as well. So, you know, you have to be very cautious and do that correctly. It has been around, chelation has been around for 50 years, plus done with a trained practitioner is very safe and it is super effective as well.



51:22 Ashley James: I would agree with you, we should absolutely go to a Naturopathic physician if we want to do chelation because it’s kind of like using a nuclear bomb on the body to release the heavy metal. And then you’re going to have to get a nice mineral and trace mineral supplement to help put back in what we took out. So I really agree with you there. I interviewed Dr. Klinghardt who’s local to me, and he works with a lot of children on spectrum come from all over the world to see him. And he gets children that are having very poor health problems to be able to within a year go to school, like just a huge transformation. And he says it’s almost always heavy metals, like it’s just unbelievable. Their body cannot detox the heavy metals. You know, they were probably given vaccines and you know, it’s controversial whether vaccines cause autism or not, depending on who you talk to. There’s lots of information depending on who you talk to.

But what we do know for a fact is that there’s heavy metals in vaccines, and that autistic children have a problem with detoxing. And so they have an accumulation of heavy metals in their neurology, and what Dr. Klinghardt brings up is, what we’re seeing now, one in 40 children are on the spectrum, whereas when you and I were kids, it was one in 10,000. And we’re wondering, is it actually autism? Or are we miss diagnosing a large percentage of the population? Because what they actually have is all the same symptoms of autism, but it’s their brain is full of heavy metals. And if we remove the heavy metals, they no longer are on the spectrum.


53:11 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah, and it’s not, I wouldn’t put it as a blanket statement for all children, or people on the spectrum have heavy metal toxicity. But there is a good portion of folks that that is the case. So I have seen folks on the spectrum that they don’t have metals in their system, because we’re tracking for that. But I have seen, you know, I’ve had moms calling me from the grocery store saying, you know, “Johnny just sang and looked in his sister’s eyes, first time ever in his life that he’s ever had any interaction, and he was vocal and verbal.” It was like, you know, true miracles like that. And for him, we were chelating him with a an oral DMPS or sorry, a topical cream that we were doing some chelation therapy with. So you know, it is definitely, you got to rule it in or rule it out.

Really the take home message is anytime you’re dealing with neurological issues, we store toxins in our fat, we can call each other fat heads because there’s so much fat in our head, you know, our brain is fat, and we store toxins there. So we definitely have to look at that. So that’s on the assessment front. There’s more on the assessment front as well and each of these are such, we can unpack each one as well. But I run an Alcat testing looking at food sensitivities, so not allergens, but sensitivity. So that’s white blood cells that get exposed to different foods, food additives, molds, etc. And we see how the body is responding to these items. And then we also run a gut microbiome test, GI maps to look at the health of the gut. Because the gut is the second brain, we manufacture all of our neurotransmitters for brain health in the gut, our digestion is so important to that.

And we’re looking at the whole microbiome and even there’s some theories around glyphosate from roundup and pesticide use, you know, killing certain gut bugs that were responsible for creating dopamine and other nutrients for our brain – neurotransmitters. So, you know, there’s more and more information coming out that way. So we got to look at the gut too. So those are the four main areas that I look at for brain health, for really all of my patients coming in with these diagnoses. And so that assessment, I just feel like people are not getting a proper assessment, because it leaves a lot of options out there rather than treating symptoms, like you were saying, you know, going Western approach and you’re gonna get put on a bunch of different medications to treat a symptom. This is one way that I found, it really trace it down to the root imbalances and address at a very deep, profound level.



56:12 Ashley James: Absolutely. I want to know why. I mean, obviously, it’s very important to check the gut flora. We wanted a healthy microbiome. When someone has a microbiome that’s out of balance, maybe they had an antibiotic in the last year and they know they’ve got really out of balanced gut flora, or maybe they have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or candida, why does that affect brain health?



56:41 Dr. Greg Eckel: So on that level, so we have the vagus nerve that comes down, it’s a cranial nerve, cranial nerve 10 that comes down innervates the gut. And there’s a lot of different theories on this, Ployvagal theory, Stephen Porges has a component around the vagus nerve, and it’s important to our health and around PTSD and anxiety and depression states. So that’s one aspect, but the vagus nerve, cranial nerve 10 comes down innervates the gut. And so there are certain things that get transmitted up and down that nerve, in addition to just the nervous system, you know, different nutrients; manganese, iron, these things get deposited in the brain, and so there’s a connection there. And then also you look at, well, there are certain probiotics, so gut bugs, that their secretion is the end product that our brains need for proper functioning. So it’s so fascinating. The research on probiotics is getting so sophisticated to look at this. And you know, I actually did a lecture to providers, I’m part of this go wellness affiliated network of about 40 clinics right now, its regenerative medicine clinics. And I gave these docs and providers the notes on, there’s research on specific neurotransmitters being produced by the gut bugs.



58:19 Ashley James: I love it.



58:20 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



58:21 Ashley James: So cool. I love that we need these other living beings, this amazing symbiotic relationship. And just thinking of mitochondria, the mitochondria are not us, like we had a guest talk about that they have different DNA, but they’re part of us. But it’s like, you have to think of mitochondria, it’s like a different being joined us and all the gut flora, and then all the healthy bacteria on our skin, and we just keep finding as science marches on that there’s even more importance, the rule that these healthy bacteria plays. So it’s kinda like a garden. You know, it’s amazing garden where all the healthy bugs are keeping everything in balance, but it’s in our body and on our body. And so we’ve got to think that we need to foster this healthy garden that comes back to how Naturopaths consider the whole body and the terrain of the body. We want to fertilize and balance the whole body. It’s so cool that our neurotransmitters that so many of them are made in the gut by the healthy gut bugs.



59:33 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



59:33 Ashley James: I love it.



59:34 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah. Yeah, it’s a little bit gross, too, right? If you took all the aerobic and anaerobic gut bugs out depending on the individual, about four to seven pounds of material. And, you know, it’s just like, wow, that’s a whole ecosystem unto itself. Yeah.



59:55 Ashley James: I love it. I love my gut bugs. We get along.



59:56 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah. I do too.



1:00:00 Ashley James: I have a friend, Dr. Megan Saunders and she’s been on the show many times. She used to be addicted to kombucha back when she was in the Naturopathic school. She was known as the kombucha lady and she says that it takes over your brain. She really believes that, that when you start drinking things or eating fermented foods that the gut bugs start making you crave that food more because they want more of that environment in itself.



1:00:26 Dr. Greg Eckel: Oh yeah. They secrete right into the bloodstream that goes up to your brain saying, “Feed us.”



1:00:31 Ashley James: Yeah. And so you start craving the kombucha. For me it’s the, I love the sauerkraut at Costco. They’ve got great organic sauerkraut and my Costco and my gut just craves it.



1:00:43 Dr. Greg Eckel: That’s awesome. That’s a good craving.



1:00:45 Ashley James: Yeah. Awesome. So we’ve got functional which is looking at the whole person, meaning looking at their emotional state, their sleep, their lifestyle, then looking at the assessment of all the things inside the person that could be off; heavy metals, viruses, bacteria, mold, all the stuff inside their body, their gut flora being off, what’s the N stand for?



1:01:11 Dr. Greg Eckel: N is for nerve health. So you’re looking at specific nutrients for nerve health. And you know, the most famous is B12. But you’ve got glutathione there. The DHA that we talked about EPA, there are certain nutrients that are renowned for brain health. So, we put that in making sure that you have that in your diet. Glutathione is one of those things for your mitochondria. There’s NAD as well, treatments for mitochondrial health and energy, but also nutrients for nerves. So we look at that aspect to make sure you’ve got your bases covered there.



1:01:57 Ashley James: What’s NAD?



1:01:57 Dr. Greg Eckel: NAD is derivative of vitamin B3, niacin. Yeah, and NAD is big in the longevity movement right now for energy production. It’s a specific food into the mitochondria.



1:02:20 Ashley James: Oh, got it. Because I know what NAC is. So I was like, oh what’s NAD? So that’s different. So it’s a derivative of the B vitamin that supports the mitochondria?



1:02:30 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



1:02:30 Ashley James: Hmm, awesome. Can we get it from whole foods or do we need to buy it as a supplement?



1:02:35 Dr. Greg Eckel: That one is tough. You know, there are some supplements with dubious claims. And you know that one, I do it via IV is the way that I get that one into the body.



1:02:57 Ashley James: When someone starts taking the NAD IV, what kind of effects do they notice?



1:03:03 Dr. Greg Eckel: They’ll notice decreased brain fog, more energy, clear thinking. Along those lines.



1:03:10 Ashley James: Whoo, sign me up. That sounds great. When you do an IV, do you normally do like a cocktail? Like a Myers push where it’s a bunch of vitamins?



1:03:21 Dr. Greg Eckel: With the NAD, it’s pretty much straight up NAD. You can include those other items in there. Before or after but the NAD goes by itself.



1:03:32 Ashley James: Got it. Very cool. Now, we’ll definitely make sure the links to everything you do is in the show notes of today’s podcast, www.naturecuresclinic.com.



1:03:42 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yes.



1:03:42 Ashley James: The listeners can go. Now, you do take clients all around the world through phone or Skype. But for them to be able to do the IV they’d have to come to the beautiful city of Portland Oregon.



1:03:54 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yes. Yeah, and Ido have people traveling from around the globe. They come to Camp Nature Cures, but there is a lot of stuff that we can do remotely. I do via Zoom, some of those telemedicine things, but you know, to get some of these therapies, I haven’t figured out how to deliver it over the internet yet.



1:04:16 Ashley James: I’m still waiting for like, smell-o-vision. Watch the TV and be able to smell it. Yeah. Very cool. Okay, so those nootropics are the N.



1:04:28 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah, exactly.



1:04:30  Ashley James: And then what’s the C?



1:04:32 Dr. Greg Eckel: C is for cellular regeneration. And so we’re living at a really interesting time, where we can do regenerative medicine with stem cells and exosomes, and these therapies to help the body create new brain tissue.



1:04:51 Ashley James: I love it. I love it. So you’re using stem cell therapy for the brain?



1:04:57 Dr. Greg Eckel: Correct.



1:04:58 Ashley James: And what kind of results are you seeing?



1:05:01 Dr. Greg Eckel: You know, we are getting folks with Parkinson’s, we’re having folks’ tremors halt and reverse. We’re having their gait, they’re walking become more stable, more fluid, we’re having their speech improve as well. So there are some big, some reversal of symptoms. Again, I’m not claiming that for everybody. But we have seen it, we’ve got clinical evidence of it, and we’re looking to improve those results for a lot of people. But, you know, my patients got sick of just being serially monitored, they’d go in to the specialist, the Neurologist and be run through a battery of tests. And then basically not even told what was going on, just see you next year. And when they would ask the doc would say, well, you’re getting worse. And they’re thinking, well, I could have told you that before I came in here. And, you know, we’re just looking to provide some options, alternatives, some hope that there are people working on it. Like, for instance, on the NAD. There’s a researcher down at Scripps University at University of Florida. And she’s doing research on NAD IVs and prionic disorders. And so, it’s too early for primetime use but I’m saying, you know, look, if we’ve got this research, we know this is a safe therapy in humans, my folks that have these diagnosis is they don’t have 30 to 40 years to wait for the definitive research to come out. It’s like you know, let’s use it now and see what we can do.



1:06:49 Ashley James: I love it. Absolutely. I have seen and heard of actually because I’ve interviewed some people about this. People with Parkinson’s getting great results using medical marijuana or CBD and hemp that when they use the CBD drops that then their shaking goes away.



1:07:10 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



1:07:11 Ashley James: Have you also seen that some people with Parkinson’s have great improvement?



1:07:15 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yes. So on that nerve health, CBD, cannabidiol is definitely one of those nerve health supplements. And, you know, when I went to medical school, we did not know about the endocannabinoid system. I did a lecture three years ago at American Academy of Environmental Medicine for cannabidiol for the treatment of anxiety.

And you look at Professor Mechoulam out of Israel. He’s the scientist that discovered the endocannabinoid system. And there are more receptors in the central nervous system, they’re called CB1, cannabidiol one. There are more receptors for that molecule, than all of the other neurotransmitters put together, which is just, I mean, it’s almost overwhelming to think about, like we didn’t even know about that system when I went to medical school. And now there’s discovered more receptors for that molecule than all of the other neurotransmitters put together.

So that is definitely, that endocannabinoid system, it needs toned. You know, eating endocannabinoid rich foods that feed that system. And then you know, taking CBD is definitely one of those things, again, source matters there, you want to make sure you’ve got its medical grade, it’s tested. One of the things that the hemp plant does, it will rehab toxic land, so it will pull up toxins out of the soil. So you want to just make sure you’ve got a really good source, if you are using that. Again, source matters. So for all of these items, yeah.



1:08:58 Ashley James: Yeah, same with chlorella and spirulina, they’ll just suck up. I mean, it’s great to use chlorella, spirulina to clean up waterways. And to use the hemp plant to clean soil, right? That’s good to clean up areas, but not to consume. So we have to make sure that the soil is clean and the water is clean. If we’re going to consume these crops. I thought it was really interesting that if we’re deficient in our essential fatty acids, we can’t produce enough of the… basically our body’s own CBD. And so then we’re CBD deficient, so that if someone takes CBD and gets a really great result, it’s because they were deficient in it. And if someone takes CBD, and it’s really good quality, it’s tested, we know that there’s actually CBD in it. And they don’t feel any difference, then maybe they weren’t as deficient. But the people who are really deficient, who obviously have neurological symptoms, they’ll see the biggest shift because their body was deficient. And that also then points to the fact that they are deficient in their essential fatty acids because their body can’t produce enough of their own cannabinoids.



1:10:16  Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah, yeah, that’s it. And you know, and that makes a great point in that. I haven’t found one thing to be the be all end all in any really condition. And so, you know, I think our want is like, just give me the one thing, doc. And if there’s this when you’re talking about neuro degeneration, it’s so multifactorial. You know, when we talk about possible causative agents, definitely levels of toxicity, play a role in Parkinson’s, that’s clearly defined in the literature from pesticides, metals, sometimes infections also can be triggering events for folks. And so, you got to do the multi pronged approach. But more is not better. More is more.

So oftentimes, I’ll see people come in with the laundry list of supplements or research and saying, I’m taking all of these things, there is this concept that I want to make sure I share with your listeners is that it’s called Zhang of the formula or direction. And in Chinese medicine, herbs, there’s an emperor or empress, then there’s generals, and then assistants, and everybody lines up. So imagine, the emperor or empress is at the very tip, if it was like an Arrowhead and it’s cutting through and moving in a direction. And so whatever plan or program that you get on, you want to make sure you have a direction, and that there’s a leading herb or a leading therapy, and everything else lines up behind and helps with that motion in a direction. Because otherwise, we kind of get into the shotgun approach a more is better. And I’ll see people with like, grocery bags full of supplements, like, “Ugh. You have to one, digest all of that. Two, process at all, absorb it all.” And then it’s pulling your vital force, your vitality in all of these different directions.

So the body and its inherent wisdom doesn’t really know which way to go with all of that information coming in. So, you know, sometimes we’ll break those up for folks and have them like cycle through by month or it really is on, are we getting a result or not. And then the other thing that comes off of that, when talking about the Zhang of the formula or direction, or assembling a program or protocol for an individual, you know, we all have our unique genetic platforms. And that’s when you asked about,  how does the prions get transmitted? Are they contagious? Can you “catch” them? You know, why I think we didn’t see this huge outbreak of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in Europe in the 80s was, well, maybe the genetic platform wasn’t susceptible to that. People ate tainted beef, there were 3 million pounds of beef that got released.

Now, a lot of that got recalled, but a lot of that got consumed. And we would have expected to see a bigger outbreak. Now some say, “Well, okay, it’s like a smoking gun, maybe then you’ve got these prions in there, they haven’t been totally activated, maybe traumas, maybe level of toxicity.” And then I would say those definitely influenced expression, but also then on top of a more susceptible genetic platform, which then even goes one step further is looking at, okay, well, I got even into looking at ancestral traumas turning on genes that then express today. So some of the conditions that we see in modern era aren’t even the individual’s issue, right? It was their great grandmother’s trauma that set them up for that. And it has definitely made my job as a physician so much harder, to be able to have the time to spend with somebody talking about all of these levels of care, and possible root imbalances.

So, I definitely wind up talking to my patients about their family lineage, family trees, but not just in a purely genetic sense, but in an energetic sense of getting back into communication with your lineage and your ancestors. Like, that’s why you’re here today, they were here, right? That DNA, that information got passed down through time, through your great grandparents and grandparents and parents, and now to you, and then maybe to your offspring. And so, one aspect is really giving thanks, or gratitude, being grateful for it, but then, you know, also acknowledging and letting your ancestors know, like, Hey, we’re going to stop, I’m not taking the family burden further. Like, I’m letting that down, and you know, consciously saying it, because it makes an imprint in your limbic system and amygdala and your cells, and your body is so responsive, and to be able to acknowledge and give thanks.

And then also, say, I’m not taking this burden any further. I welcome the energy and intuition, and inspiration. Like, you know, bring all of that to me ancestors, but we’re going to leave the family traumas, the burdens, you know, whatever got set up in the past, we’re going to leave that now. Like, we don’t need to carry that forward anymore. Because it does get past, it just dawned on me, like, wow, that’s where that curse of seven generations, where that comes from, it’s like, we can actually trace out 13 generations now from a trauma that occurred 13 generations ago, expressing through a family’s lineage. So, it’s doing techniques of grounding yourself and deep breathing, and I love playing with the voice and kind of frequencies and singing, all of these accessing all of the different healing modalities, and really putting those in, depending on what your specific issue is. But, you know, you can really find folks that are tying these things together, and designing a program specific to you as an individual.



1:16:49 Ashley James: You would love timeline therapy, it’s one of the techniques I’ve been using since 2005. And that’s actually the technique that I’m going to teach on your show. Dr. Eckel has a great podcast called What The Health, What The Health! So listeners are going to check out your your podcast, because they’ll love it.

And I have a technique to reverse, to eliminate, to end anxiety, to completely cut it off at the root. And it’s a timeline therapy technique. But in timeline therapy, we go back to the root cause, the beginning of the Gestalt, the chain of stored emotions in the body that are unresolved. And so the root cause of anger, sadness, fear, hurt and guilt. And we go back to generations and we’ve had so many accounts where people will go back, and it’s light state of trance. So you’re conscious of your unconscious mind, that’s the coolest part because people are a little afraid of going under hypnosis.

It’s not hypnosis, but you become aware of your unconscious. And anyone who wants to learn more about how neurology stores memories, there’s two books I love, The Heart’s Code by Paul Piersol and The Holographic Universe, I forget the author’s name. The Holographic Universe, and The Hearts Code are amazing. And they both prove that we store memories basically in our cells, holographically through the whole body. It’s not just in our brain. And we can absolutely pass down memories, that there have been numerous accounts where people have had heart transplants, and they are able to have memories of the person’s murder to the point where they were able to tell the police what the murderer looked like. And they were able to find them and put them in prison. And so when we have memories from organ transplants, I mean, it’s just amazing that the body, there’s definitely the esoteric, you know, we have to just like expand our minds, right?



1:18:59 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah.



1:19:00 Ashley James: You know, because we’re all sort of like thinking that leeches, like, you know, a hundred years ago, or 500 years ago, like, oh, everyone just needs to do bloodletting, right? I mean, just imagine, that’s kind of where we are. We’re all thinking like, memories are just stored in the brain. Right? But that’s common knowledge. But it’s not true, memories are stored holographically throughout the whole body. And in timeline therapy, when we go to release and learn from and heal the negative emotions in the body, people will have memories from their grandmother. And if the grandmother is still alive, they’ll be able to go and confirm them, or memories from their mother, and their healing stuff.  Before they were even born that they’ve never been told about that they never knew. And they’re able to go and confirm with their family members, after we do the timeline therapy that those events actually happened. So they’re stored, we store memories from our ancestors in our body. And of course, we’re storing that trauma.

So that’s like that emotional, mental, a little bit esoteric, part of healing. And then on the totally like lab science part of healing. I was fascinated to hear about this study with mice where they took these beautiful white fuzzy mice, you’ve probably heard this study, and they expose them to the levels of BPA, Bisphenol A, that we are normally exposed to on a daily basis every time we touch receipts and drink from plastic bottles with BPA. And what happened is their genes transformed, they be genetically shifted, they no longer grew beautiful soft white fur, they grew gnarly yellow fur, they became obese. And then they stopped giving them the BPA, I think it was just water, the BPA was put in their water, they stopped giving it to them. But that this genetic expression lasted I believe, three generations. So they had basically gnarly yellow mice that were obese for three generations.

So just think about the chemicals that your grandparents were exposed to, and that change their neurology, or sorry, changed their biochemistry, because it turned on these different expressions epigenetically, and you’re experiencing the result. And now we’re seeing that all the toxins that we’ve been exposed to, and our children be exposed to, like, look at now that over 70% of the population is overweight, because of all these obesogens. And all the exposure to Bisphenol A, just one of the many toxins, but that it changes our genes. So even if we completely cleaned up our environment, our genes for the next few generations might pass on, these characteristics. And that’s why we have to be extra careful and extra diligent to be clean, and also advocate for a cleaner environment. But then, like you said, do the emotional mental work as well, because we are seeing a link between decreasing stress, healing emotions, working on releasing ancestral trauma, and how our genes actually express in the now. So, it’s so cool that our body will respond to emotional healing on a physical level.



1:22:22 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah, so profound. And oftentimes, like you’re saying, does not get addressed at all.



1:22:30 Ashley James: Because there’s no profit, they can’t make a drug, right? The pharmaceutical company can’t pay someone to do research to make a drug to heal your trauma from the past, otherwise, they would have made it. So we have to go out and advocate and listen to you and your podcast and listen to the experts who are willing to teach us about how we can heal our body on a whole level; emotional, mental, spiritual and energetic and physical. Because we’re not going to get it from the mainstream media.



1:23:01 Dr. Greg Eckel: Right.



1:23:03 Ashley James: Yeah. So I love your FAN-C. I think that’s a great system.



1:23:08 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yes.



1:23:09 Ashley James: I studied with a Naturopathic physician who’s like, he’s in his 80s now and he was a Veterinarian, physician and Pathologist, and he was a Research Scientist before he became a Naturopath. And he says that most Parkinson’s and MS and ALS are a combination of too much oxidative damage to the brain. So eating fried food, standard American diet, and too much oxidative damage and oxidative stress to the brain, and not enough of the essential nutrients the body needs to heal the brain. So it’s sort of like too much fire in the body and not enough nutrients to put out the fire. And that he’s seen great results and met a woman who went on his sort of basically… his program is stop eating stuff that causes the damage and start eating the stuff that helps the body heal and take the supplements that you mentioned. And I met a woman who was in a wheelchair one month and the next month was walking, and she couldn’t believe it. So people are getting great results from avoiding the oxidative stress. How much has that played a role when you look into this research when you work with your clients? Are you seeing getting people off of fried food getting people off of, even consuming oil in a bottle? Because that is consuming oxidative stress, right? So, what can we do to prevent oxidative stress in the body so we can help heal the brain?



1:24:43 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah. Well, one component, when the symptoms have progressed to the point of tremor, I love hyperbaric oxygen, so I’ve to hyperbaric oxygen chambers here. So when it has progressed, so as a preventative component, which we all should be working towards preventative, is detoxing the body reducing oxidative stress, getting the antioxidants in there to repair from oxidative stress.

You know, we’re exposed to 80,000 chemicals a week in the United States. And so there are levels of toxicity out there. So that we’ve got to just go on the offensive of just assume this is occurring. So what do I need to do to address it, and then reverse it? And so definitely not cooking with high heat, if you ever see the oil smoking in the pan, that means you’ve oxidized it. So, you know, kind of toss that out, start over, cook a little bit lower heat, quality of your oils that you’re using, what you’re cooking in. These things really do matter.

Of course, the biggest lever is if you’re a smoker, stop smoking. If you grew up with smokers, you know if your parents smoked, like mine in the 70s. And you know, riding in the car with the windows up with mom smoking in the car, it’s like, “Oh, geez, what are we doing here?” That’s where the cadmium comes from, right? That’s where a lot of metal toxicity comes from, is that inhaled smoke. So you know, it’s really knowing where you grew up what you got exposed to, and then how to detox that? Infrared saunas, salt baths, grounding activity, deep breathing, mindfulness, meditation, all of these things do play a role there when you’re talking about oxidative stress.

You know, in Environmental Medicine, the first thing you learn, the first six items are, the first three are remove, remove, remove, and then it says magnesium, magnesium, magnesium. So when you’re talking about environmental causative agents, you first have to stop the damage. So if there’s anything that you’re consuming, or around that’s creating oxidative stress or damage, which we know just in general life living, we’re getting exposed to stuff. So we’ve got to address that. And then we’ve got to make sure we’ve got all of the nutrients for our body to detox and magnesium is a big cofactor. There are a lot of other nutrients in there. But you know, you look at the cytochrome P450 cycle, and that’s in liver detoxification, major filter for the body.

So getting the nutrients to keep those doors open is the way that I like to talk about that. B vitamins, magnesium are the big players there to keep the phase one and phase two route of elimination, open in the liver, sweating, motion activity, getting your circulation going, those things count, and then really your proper nutrition. That’s the setup for healthy living and longevity or the health span that I see working for a lot of people. Yeah.



1:28:05 Ashley James: I love it. I had a problem for many years. So I don’t know if you know my story. But in my 20s was very, very sick. I had uncontrolled type two diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic monthly infections, which I was on almost constant antibiotics for, and I was a mess. I had infertility, and I had polycystic ovarian syndrome, I was told I’d never have kids by an Endocrinologist. So I was just a mess. And the MDs want to put me on lots of drugs. And my 30s I spent building my body backup, I’m almost 40. Now at 39 and a half, I’m sort of like accepting my fate. I’m going to be 40 soon I know, I’ve psychologically had to like start preparing myself for the transition into my awesome 40s.

And so I was able to with Natural Medicine, had a Naturopath mentor me. And so the last seven years of actually work with clients, you know, working with these Naturopaths and doing this health coaching. But it all started about 10 years ago, shopping the perimeter of the grocery store, only buying organic, you know, cutting out sugar and flour, going gluten free, dairy free, going on a whole food plant based diet. So you know, stopping eating at McDonald’s basically. I think I haven’t eaten McDonalds in eight or 10 years. But I basically went from the standard American diet to a really good diet and taking these supplements, you know, changing, doing emotional healing and mindset, everything, everything. And I was able to reverse all these problems. But every time I went to lose weight, I’d wake up in the morning, I taste metal and I would smell putrid. And it was like burning rubber. I would smell burning rubber and I would taste heavy metal, I would taste like metal in my mouth. And my liver would get super inflamed. Like all my liver enzymes were like super elevated, my liver was just pissed off. And I went for ultrasounds and they’re like, yep, that’s a really big liver, it was very inflamed. And so I’d stop weight loss. And then everything would go back to normal. That was really frustrating. And I would do it again and again, I went to lose a bit more weight. After about 20 pounds it all come up, come back and I’d have to stop weight loss.

And it finally clicked, it finally dawned on me that it was the whatever junk like heavy metals was in my adipose tissue, my fat cells that when my body started releasing the fat, my liver just couldn’t handle it. And whether I mean, I have MTHFR like 25% on each end. So you know, there’s a little bit of gunk there, where my body needs a bit of help with methylation. But there was something definitely going on. And so I looked into how do I detox these heavy metals? How do I support my liver? I got a Sunlighten Sauna. It’s been just over a year. And I started sweating almost every day. Then I found a magnesium soak where your body actually absorbs grams of magnesium. And you can watch, like if you do the magnesium RBC blood test, you can watch it go up through soaking. And those two things shifted my whole world. It was amazing.

So definitely, I attest to the fact that magnesium and sweating and an infrared sauna play a huge role in detoxification. I’ve done a bunch of other stuff as well that I’ve noticed changes, but those are probably the two biggest ones for me that I saw huge, huge changes. And now when I lose weight, I don’t have that liver problem, which is really exciting. It took me a whole year of getting in the sauna and soaking in magnesium and doing all all like I said, all the other kinds of stuff. But now I don’t have that problem. So you know, we have to advocate for ourselves. We have to educate ourselves, we have to listen to our body and get really curious like what’s going on? Why is my body doing this? And then go to a wonderful doctor like you that’ll help us decipher the language our bodies trying to speak.


1:32:18 Dr. Greg Eckel: Perfect.



1:32:19 Ashley James: Yeah, awesome. So on your website, you have a summit that people can access if they have Parkinson’s or if they have neurological issues that they really want to learn more about how they can support themselves and they can go to www.naturecuresclinic.com. Tell us a bit about your website, and what kind of resources are available on it?



1:32:44 Dr. Greg Eckel: Well, I have two handouts on there. One is four signs of cognitive decline, and that’s the one that you can access through, you’ll get some more information around the Parkinson’s summit that I’m holding, interviewed seven experts in different facets of care for neurodegeneration and have had some really great feedback from folks and appreciation and just assembling this information for them. And then the other guide that I have is on pain and pain management. So the part of the Regenerative Medicine and regenerative stem cell therapies is it’s really renowned for regrowing joints; knees and hips and backs and brains and so I’ve got a guide on there as well, if you’ve got anybody that’s listening with pain or pain patterns, that is up on the site as well.



1:33:38 Ashley James: Very cool. Awesome and then people can work with you as well, www.naturecuresclinic.com. But if they want to come to you in Portland, tell us a bit about, what was this camp you have?



1:33:49 Dr. Greg Eckel: Oh, yeah. So I call it Camp Nature Cures. And so, I do have people fly in from around the globe. You know Portland is a destination city now for food and culture, it’s a really fun place to be. So, it’s kind of on the radar, but then we also have our Nature Cares Clinic. We’re right downtown at 10th and Taylor right next to the library and centrally located and we plug people into great restaurants and the arts etc. But you know, you come out for intensive, so I’ve had folks fly in from as far away as New Zealand at this point. And we’ll set people up with brain regenerative program. It’s a 10 day program, people come in for a battery of tests and treatments we’re doing stem cell regenerative therapies, acupuncture, Chinese herbs, we get them in the hyperbaric chamber twice a day.

So three hours a day of hyperbarics, we’re doing the IVs that help heal the body, they deal with that oxidative stress that you were talking about with the brain and you know really help the body. We give the body all of the information it needs to heal itself. So folks come in and coming into Camp Nature Cures because these therapies we can’t deliver them online energetically, yet. We’re looking for that thought, quantum physics and that increased curve that’s happening. But for now, we deliver them in person here at the clinic. Yeah.



1:35:32  Ashley James: I love Portland for the food scene as well. But I’m looking for the vegan and raw vegan. I get so excited. Like, yeah, let’s go to a raw vegan restaurant. And I have a raw vegan friend that used to live in Portland and he’d brag about the raw vegan scene and I’m pretty jazzed about all the healthy food that’s available  at Portland, but they do have bacon doughnuts that aren’t vegan.



1:36:00 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yes.



1:36:00 Ashley James: Yeah, they do have a lot of other kinds of foods in Portland. Well, very cool. I’m super excited that we were able to bring this information today and you’re welcome back on the show anytime because you can teach about allergies and asthma and orthopedics. I’d love to have you back on the show to dive into those topics as well.



1:36:23 Dr. Greg Eckel: Oh, that would be awesome. Thank you so much.



1:36:25 Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. Very cool. Is there anything left unsaid that you want to make sure that you convey before wrapping up today’s interview?



1:36:34 Dr. Greg Eckel: Yeah. You know, one of the big things that is a message of mine and just what I’ve been through is, it’s about love and you know, just if you haven’t, we want to spread more love and tell those around that you love them and give them big hugs and you know really look in their eyes, because we don’t know how long we’re on the planet together and it’s such a special time to have and kind of a sacred time. So, just the message of I would love to see more love out there, and so it starts with us and just go hug some people, your loved ones and make sure they know that you love them.


1:37:16 Ashley James: That’s beautiful. Thank you so much Dr. Greg Eckel. It has been such a pleasure having you here today. listeners can go to your website www.naturecuresclinic.com. Of course that link will be in the show notes for today’s podcast at www.learntruehealth.com and they can check out all those freebie, wonderful information that you’re giving away. Absolutely. They should sign up on your website to get more information from you. They should come visit Camp Nature Cures and some awesome fun treatments. And of course they can call you up and have a Zoom call with you over the internet. It’s been great having you here. Can’t wait to have you back on the show.



1:37:56 Dr. Greg Eckel: Thank you so much, Ashley.






Eyeing to optimize your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to www.takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That’s www.takeyoursupplements.com, www.takeyoursupplements.com. That’s www.takeyoursupplements.com. Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.


Get Connected With Dr. Greg Eckel!

Nature Cures Clinic




Book by Dr. Greg Eckel

Shake It Off: A FAN-C Approach to Parkinson’s Disease

Recommended Reading by Dr. Greg Eckel

Anatomy Of An Illness by Norman Cousins

Join the Learn True Health Community & Support Us on Patreon

Order High-Quality Supplements

Join Our Facebook Community Group

Visit Our YouTube Channel

Reed Davis And Ashley James


  • What is functional diagnostic nutrition?
  • Getting information, identifying the key phrase and healing opportunities
  • Focus on is underlying causes and conditions
  • Catabolic and anabolic stress and how you can do lab testing to find out if you have it
  • HIDDEN stressors and dysfunctions in the body
  • Running lab tests to discover healing opportunities
  • Investigating and looking at these critical markers for balance in your body
  • looking for the hidden contributors to metabolic chaos and to the degree that the root causes are discoverable to work on it


They say “An apple a day keeps the doctor away” but we all know that it’s not just an apple that we have to get in order to have a healthy body. Diet, rest, exercise, stress reduction and supplements can play a big role too. Listen to today’s podcast and listen to what Reed Davis has to say about things that you should know about to help you to optimize your health and your way to functional nutrition.


[0:00] Ashley James: Hello, True Health seekers and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health podcast. I’m very excited for you to hear our interview today with Reed Davis, the founder of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition.  A few months ago, I interviewed one of his graduates who practice as a health coach with this unique ability to do functional lab testing and then help their clients to find those healing opportunities that the labs present. It’s a different philosophy. A different lens that these health coaches look through to see how they can best serve their clients to finally resolve the metabolic chaos that’s been going on. We often treat symptoms and our medical system even someone has a thyroid condition for example and they think that that’s the root cause and so they’re treating the thyroid but thyroid dysfunction covers from something else. What causes the thyroid to have a dysfunction? And there are dozens of root causes. Functional Diagnostic Nutrition looks to solve that. Today we’re going to dive into what is Functional Diagnostic Nutrition and how can it help you to achieve the best health possible. Those who are already health coaches or in the holistic health field you’re going to love learning about Reed’s program. He has a wonderful online certification program where he teaches you how to do these labs. How to interpret them and how to then help the clients to get the results we’re looking for through lifestyle, diet and when needed, supplementation. If you’re not in the holistic health space and you’re not interested in making a career in helping people like becoming a health coach, you will still enjoy today’s interview because he does teach a lot of wonderful things. He’s told me that some people even take his course just to learn these tools for themselves which I thought was very valuable. After interviewing him, I enrolled in his program and I jumped in and I’m already in module two and I’m loving it. I’m absolutely loving it. I’m learning so much. What I really like about his program is it’s all “rubber hits the road.” There’s no fluff. You jump straight in and you begin learning. I’ve been studying with Naturopaths and doctors and reading tons of books and going to health lectures and obviously doing 300 interviews with doctors and in my first few days of being in his course I have learned stuff I have never heard off before. It’s really exciting. If you’re a health coach I hugely recommend checking out his course because as you know I’m a health coach, I’ve been doing this for several years. I’ve always felt that there’s a piece missing. This piece of looking at things objectively through the lens of proper labs. Reed talks about this today in the show. You’re going to really like the kinds of labs that he does. It’s not the kind of labs that you’re ever used to going to your doctor. These are totally different and it allows us to see where the metabolic chaos is. In some cases, actually, let us find the root cause but regardless of whether we find the root cause or not, they will allow us to see what we need to see in order to make the appropriate changes to support the body in coming back into balance. That’s very exciting. Enjoy today’s interview and please, check out the link. Learntruehealth.com/FDN.  As in Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. That’s Learntruehealth.com/FDN. Excellent. Enjoy today’s interview.


[04:01] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 376. I’m very excited for today’s guest, we have with us, Reed Davis. He’s the founder of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. An amazing company that helps people to become certified in functional nutrition. I definitely want to dive into that because we have a lot of health coaches that listen and this is a wonderful adjunct to those who are in the holistic health space or for people who want to get into the holistic health space, it’s a wonderful course that they can take. For those who aren’t, who just want to get their own health back and that’s why they’re listening. This episode is also perfect for you because we’re going to be talking about lab testing and the things that you should know about to help you to optimize your health. The things that going to a mainstream medical doctor, practitioner they just wouldn’t know to provide you and so Reed’s going to enlighten us today. Reed, welcome to the show.


[05:09] Reed Davis: Welcome. Thanks so much for having me here Ashley. It’s a real pleasure. Looking forward to trying to help some people.


[05:16] Ashley James:  Before we get started, you were telling me a bit about where you live which is a paradise up in the mountains. You’re living off a grid and you’re using a satellite phone. So far the connection’s been wonderful and every time we hear a little bit of a delay on the line we’ll just remember that you’re living in absolute paradise on a lake in the mountains. Totally off the grid and we so appreciate that you’re taking the time to educate us today.


[05:45] Reed Davis: Thanks again. I’m happy to answer anything I can. Tell you the history. It’s about helping people and trying to walk the talk. I’m here for you and your pleasure.


[05:57] Ashley James: Absolutely. I’d love to start by hearing your story. You are a certified nutritional therapist. You’re a holistic health practitioner. You founded this wonderful company that helps people to learn how they can do these lab tests for themselves and for their clients. Then what to do once they have the lab results, which I think the most important thing about. Right? It’s good to have the lab testing but then what do we do? Okay, so now I see that my liver enzymes are high but what do we do? You have wonderful course that helps people to learn functional nutrition. How did you start? What happened in your life that lead you to want to do this?


[06:41] Reed Davis: Yes. Thanks so much. It’s an amazing course in lab work and natural protocols to fix what you find. But it was a long time coming. Back in the 90s, I was doing environmental law. I came out of a law program at the University of San Diego. Went right to work saving the planet, birds, bees, air, water, trees. What can we do to clean up the planet and it’s very rewarding work. Frankly, I made millions of dollars for the owners but not for myself. As I increase therapist, my income didn’t grow up that much and southern California’s a very expensive place to live. So I was looking around for a way where I could be my own boss, work for myself but also continue the work. I turned my attention from saving the planet to people like what’s this environment if it’s killing off the bird and bees and air and water and trees and things. What’s it doing to people including myself? What’s it doing to me? I’m getting older too right? Back then I was probably in my 40s but I was again working hard and I went to work, changed jobs. I went to work at a clinic. It’s a wellness clinic or a wellness center in Southern California in San Diego area. It’s beautiful. People were lovely. I was really hired to run the business and help expand the business. But the owner who was a chiropractor. She allowed me to go with her kind of as an assistant. She was getting a diploma in nutrition for her chiropractic work. And said, “Hey, you can come along and you can get certified too.” Not a physician but I did that. This was remarkable, Ashley. You’ll love this. She let me work in her patients in between classes. I’d go into a lesson. Let’s say in detoxification come back and I had access to her patients to talk to them about their health and find out what’s going on and see if I can help them with this training that I was getting. I’ve had many other trainings since was you mentioned. Kind of been a certificate collector of sorts. I think everyone listening probably will see this in a way a learn freak. Just never satisfied with what you know. I know there’s a deeper layer. There’s something else I can learn. I was like that too but also, in the clinic, this is remarkable. Again, I had the ability to help clients and I fell in love with that side of it. I turn my attention instead of just running the clinic and helping to grow and things like that but I still had to do that but I fell in love with the clinical side that means working face to face with people. One of the things I noticed right away was that almost everybody walking to the door for their pain or whatever it was, they had multiple complaints and they’ve been to multiple practitioners trying to get some resolution or solutions to their problem. Some of them 10 doctors already. That just blew my mind. Even though I was neophyte that was 20 years ago, I said to myself and to them even ”Look, I’m going to be the last person you need to see. We’re going to figure this out.” I’ve been very good that the legal research and writing and I could understand fairly complex things and try to make it easy for people. That was another part of my job at that time we’ll just call it patient educator. I got to look at very complex things break it down and try to explain it people so that they could go out and do the things that took to get well.

I could just again, very fortunate with the stars lined up or whatever you want to put it. I met doctors who are running alternative lab work. Back then, 20 years ago, there was just standard medicine and alternative also known as quackery. Some of these doctors, I’ve learned from were not very low respected at that time. They were pioneering doing really important work especially with some of the labs that were coming out. The saliva testing, the urine testing, the stool testing. Things I would say above and beyond normal blood chemistry. Some of these people come in and they’re really sick. They just feel lousy all that time. Things about the way they look and the way they feel that they’re not happy with. Their physicians were saying, “Your bloodwork looks normal. Everything looks fine. You’re just getting old.” Or you’ve heard that before, right?


[11:28] Ashley James: Right. We’ll definitely get into this. Like what is normal? because they’re waiting until you’re in a disease state so they can give you a drug. If you’re unhealthy but you’re not yet sick enough not to be put on a drug to manage the disease, then they’re going to tell you that you’re fine. That’s if you go to a mainstream medical doctor.


[11:54] Reed Davis: Right. You’re considered by them to be sub-clinical. You haven’t reached that point where your bloodwork looks so out of whack that they can diagnose you. This is another the beauty of our work. I’ve been doing this for 20 years, Ashley. There is no medical diagnosis or treatment for that specific thing. Just for feeling lousy and you’re overweight and you’re tired or maybe there’s stuff going on with your sinuses, allergies, moodiness, irritability, digestive problem and all these things but you’re not at that point where you need to be referred to a gastroenterologist there’s something in a way standard measure. Back to the story, I’m seeing people in the office now, I started going into the public and recruiting. I bought a bone density testing machine. I started doing that two days a week. Clinic was open Monday, Wednesday, Friday and I work very hard. I do 12-14 hours a day easily or to a lot of weekends. A couple of days a week. I would go out and for 5 years, I’m going to go twice a week to these grocery stores. Some small chain about 30 stores. I would just go from one to the next, test people for their bone density and this is mostly women between I’d say 40 and 60 because that’s who gets checked and they’re getting early checks. I’d get certified in that part to use that machine kind of radiology limited tech certificate and I was doing this testing and then I was helping those women with that problem like they had low bone density and I got into the hormones and the immune systems and digest and detoxification. I learned how to run the labs. Again, I was very fortunate to be working with some physicians who let me run labs under their license as their protégé is you will. Actually as their alter ego because their licensure restricted them from what they could do let’s say for a person. This is still happening today that it- yes, you’re laughing but even just last week I was [Inaudible 13:58] I was at Medfit tour at the Washington athletic club in Seattle. I was speaking to a group up there about a hundred personal trainers and some physicians and one physician said, “I feel like my medical license are handcuffs. I’m just about ready to give up my license because I want to do what’s really right for people.” 20 years ago, it was worse. Doctors were just tied up to these model of diagnose-treat-diagnose-treat. Very small specific thing. It’s almost always it’s writing a prescription. I was actually like an alter ego.

I got to say to these people anything. Forget the diagnosis, what’s really wrong. Again the saliva testing, urine testing, stool testing, looking at hormone, immune, digestion, detoxification, energy production, and autonomic balance. The sympathetic para-sympathetic. I ran thousands of those labs on thousands of people. Mostly women because that seem most interested but then when we got some good results and actually some miracle cases early on. Just unbelievable things happened that told me I was on the right track. Then they would refer, they bring in their husbands, they bring in their kids. If you want I could tell you a quick story about an early case that gave me tremendous faith and hope and belief in what I was doing. A lady comes into the chiropractic office and you know, I would walk the patients back to the treatment room. I was also trained, took a course in Myo-fascia release. I could do a specialized trigger point therapy on their necks and upper shoulders and things before they got their chiropractic adjustment. One day I was taken aback and I could just tell she as not feeling right, she was depressed and I asked what’s wrong.  She said, “Reed, it’s this weight. This 40 pounds and I’m really depressed about it.” “What are you doing?” “Well, I can’t do anything because I’m on this medication for the hives. It was a steroid that makes me fat. So I talked to my doctor yesterday” and she said, “he said, Lady, you have your choice. you’re going to be overweight or you’re going to have the hives. Take your pick.” So yes, you can imagine. She’s just distraught. She said, “And I told him that was really depressing and he offered me to write a prescription for anti-depressants.”


[16:27] Ashley James:  Oh, of course!


[16:29] Reed Davis: Yes. So check this out. Again, this is a long time ago. I didn’t know really exactly I was doing. I was learning but I didn’t know I was doing but I was doing awfully a lot too. I said, “Susan, did anyone ever try to find out why you get the hives?” Her neck just about snapped, her head just about snapped out of her neck. You know she was, “Well, what do you mean”?” I said, “There’s a test you can find out. Are you sensitive to something? Is there something in your environment? There’s all kind of ways to investigate that. That’s what I do. I’m like a health detective.” She goes, ”No. No one’s ever mentioned that.” Anyway, to get to the chase, we get her take home some test kits. Found out that some things she was very sensitive to, got her off of those things. Mostly dietary and within two weeks, she was off her medication and she told her doctor, “I’m never going back on it again”. I found what the problem is and I’m avoiding it. Then 2 weeks after that she was off her medication. She was doing two things that she hadn’t done in a couple of years. One was take a hot shower because even on the meds she got the hives. The other is working out to the point of perspiration because even on the meds she got the hives. It completely changed her life. She became a happy person. She started losing weight. She started feeling like her old self. Now I have to add that there’s some other labs and the hormones and immune and digestion. There a lot of things you could tune up on a person. That just told me then that I was on the right track. So many stories like that where early on I did not know at all but I was figuring out a system of investigation. Where to look for these underlying causes and conditions instead of, “Here’s something for the hives and the depressants because you’ve gained 40 pounds. Here’s something for the depression.” It’s such a contrast as you will know.


[18:36] Ashley James: I love it. That was your early on experience which got you so excited about helping people that you were shocked to find out that when people go to their mainstream doctor, they wait until they’re sick, put them on a drug and then when they have a side effect. They put them on another drug for the side effect and so on and so forth. Instead of trying to figure out how to solve it. If we look back at the history of allopathic medicine, about a 150 years ago and start to look back to the beginning of what is now MD medicine. Right? If we look at the history we see that. This is not conspiracy theory. This is fact. We see that a large, a person, it was Carnegie who owned a pharmaceutical company is that one that invested in making sure that the education, he invested in all the universities that taught medical doctors to only teach basically how to prescribe drugs. To this day, the education of doctors is largely manipulated by the pharmaceutical companies. They don’t want doctors to learn how to get to the root cause of chronic illness. I love allopathic medicine for emergencies, for some surgeries, when it’s necessary especially emergency medicine. For some infections, that’s where they shine but take a chronic illness to an MD their wheelhouse, their toolset is drugs that manage symptoms not most of them not getting to the root cause especially when it comes to more sensitive tests like you said. Things like food sensitivities or understanding genetics, understanding diet and nutrition. They don’t have an education around that. Unfortunately, they have a hubris, not all of them but some of them have a hubris to assume that they know everything about health because they paid so much for their education, right? I have had a few MDs on the show who said to me, “I really thought I know everything.” And they really do. They think they know everything so when you come to them with hives, they don’t question what’s causing the hives. They just assume, “Okay, you have hives. You’re just going to have for the rest of your life, here’s a drug,” Same with my type II diabetes. I had polycystic ovarian syndrome and infertility all the problems I had all that. All the MDs told me was that we can manage it with drugs and I would be that way for the rest of my life and I will never have kids. I told you before we hit record because you asked me about my personal story but it was because I veered off and started to look for holistic solutions that I was able to resolve all of them. All of the things that the MDs said were my life sentences basically. I love that early on, you saw that there’s a huge need for functional diagnostic nutrition. What happened next? You were having these aha moments. Moments when you’re working with the clients in the clinic. What lead you to want to start functional diagnostic nutrition?


[21:11] Reed Davis: Yes, sure. You know I want to just follow up a bit on what you said first. The fact that allopathic physicians, they’re the best at what they do. They want to help it. They save lives every single day. If you get off of a plane from West Africa and your temperature is 106 and you’re bleeding out of your eyeballs or something. You don’t call your nutritionist, you go for the best standard care you possibly can find. The hospitals and doctors are full of people who could really help you at that point. Same thing if you have a car accident and your bone is sticking out of your arm bleeding. You don’t call your health coach and have it fixed, it’s so fantastic at that right? Really keep those things in mind. The next thing for me was just the sheer grind. I was just grinding for years? I didn’t stop to think about what kind of a big movement I could start or something like that. I was really enjoying myself. Earning a very good living. Building one of the busiest, we’ll call it a nutrition practice in the country, in the US. Again at San Diego. I was just doing my thing. Working in the office, really helping all the patients that were coming in. Learning how to teach them, how to educate them in plain English on the things that they could do. Which really in the big concept in the chiropractic office and wellness center. We had other doctors. Acupuncturist, we even had an osteopath but it’s not what you do in the office, its what you do at home in between office visits. That’s when I because an expert at. At least a guy with a plan, a guy with a system because it was all based on observation. If you run thousands of labs on thousands of people, you’re going to learn a few things. What I learned is where the alternative practitioners of the day we’re leaving planks.

There are this gaps in person with a health problem. There are gaps. It’s called the cycle of trial and error actually. You go to a physician he says, “All your bloodwork looks normal” or even if he says, “It looks abnormal” the answer’s just a prescription to treat the paper in most. Thyroids a perfect example. “You have a cluster of symptom sounds like thyroid.” so they run a thyroid test. Yep, pat myself in the back. “You have hyperthyroid. Here’s your medication.” It traces the paper definitely, they can adjust the doses to get the numbers on the paper that look like what they want. That doesn’t make the person any better. It’s treating the test results and the symptoms, not the person. The best blessing I had was not being able to write a prescription. Not being a doctor. You know at first I thought, I should be a doctor so I can help these people. No. Grinding it out for years and years in the office, running to labs to figure out what’s really wrong and then how to fix it. What does that person need to go home and do in between doctors’ visits? I came up with that DRESS for health success system. The D-R-E-S-S. We can get it into that what that is, that’s the lifestyle medicine that there’s now band-aid about by lots of pundits. People who might have come and got training in something. Even people that take my course, they’re much better educated once they’re done but grinning it out being on the discovery levels was happy days. Just working hard. You asked, how to finally turn that into FDN. I was out lecturing not only doing my screenings with the bone density machines. I invented other screening just to get people and get them doing some lab work. Get them running some saliva and urine testing which is easy to take home. It’s not expensive and everyone can do it, so anyone can run these labs. Getting information, identifying, this is the key phrase. Healing opportunities like what’s really wrong.

Again if you’re hormone balance, if you’re not breaking down assimilating food very well if your liver is congested, you won’t be detoxifying your body and on and on. If the immune system is overactive or underactive. These are not medical diagnosis they’re just identifying healing opportunities, things that a person can fix. Of course, it isn’t but one of the trainings I took taught us to substitute drugs with supplements. I tried that for a while and that didn’t work. It’s much more than just a naturopathic medicine should be much more than just “Here’s the test, here’s the wrong in the paper, here’s some supplements that can fix it.” versus “Here’s some drugs that’ll fix it.” That’s not what would work for me. Again, the whole entire lifestyle medicine thing. I started figuring out how do I know what is the right diet for everybody. Everyone has to eat. You’re made of food. I used to weigh 8 pounds when I was born now I weigh 198 pounds pretty big guy. Where that extra weight come from?  It came from food. You ate food and it built the body. So that’s really important. Then also, rest or sleep but rest, knowing how to really get good deep non-realm rest is critical to having a healthy body. Then the exercise, I became a personal fitness trainer and all of that learning about the physical body. Then, of course, another letter is – so that’s Diet, Rest, Exercise, D-R-E-S-S, it spells DRESS for health success. Diet, rest, exercise, stress reduction and then, of course, the supplements. I put supplements last. They’re what people want to start with but I don’t really believe that. They’re important but it’s really the D, the R and the E and the first S, stress reduction. You’ve heard that word stress before, right? You probably don’t have any but there’s so many different kinds. I learned about stress.

A matter fact I read in 2001, in an article in a naturopathic medicine that that was responsible for 50% of office visits and up to 80% of chronic degenerative disease. Some form of stress. I looked into different types of stress. Mental, emotional, physical trauma and of course, what I specialize in, is the environmental and the biological biochemical stressors, chemical stressors. It’s really a holistic lifestyle program that was developed over years of working with people, finding out what works how do you customize it. Based upon the actual healing opportunities that I discovered with the labs. If you run thousands of labs in thousands of people and you pay attention, I made observations on who got better and who didn’t. It should be no surprise to anyone listening, those people who worked closest to the underlying cause were the ones who got better but it was not so intuitive. This is where it kind of takes the twist where you really have to be observant is people with the exact same set of symptoms can have them for completely different upstream dysfunction. One person with the thyroid disorder where they’re hypothyroid, whereas their thyroids not making enough T4 or is making T4 but was not converting into T3 properly. Those are basics. Why? Instead of just giving them medication, we want to know why. What I’ve discovered in 10 people, you might find 10 different reasons why. That’s the not so intuitive part that helped me developed functional diagnostic nutrition, the entire program. Which is the investigation, which labs were on? Which observations can be capitalized on. We’re going to make some observations about healing opportunities as long as we’re given time, we can capitalize on those. Again, if you have a temperature of a 106 and you’re bleeding out of all references, don’t call me. Go get checked out first. If you have a big, blood’s on your forehead like some tumor growing. That needs a more attendant care,  emergency care. You go get that handled but then what? You come back and we do a program for you. This holistic functional diagnostic nutrition and the Dress For Health success program. That took a lot of years.


[31:27] Ashley James: Very cool. As you developed this, did you see when you applied DRESS, the Dress For Health success to everyone that you got even better results?


[31:42] Reed Davis: Well, yes. Today, 11 years ago I was asked to teach the system. It wasn’t good enough for one guy in California to be using it. How many people could I actually serve? Again, I had one of the busiest practices in the country. I was told that by my vendors. The people that I did business with especially a couple of the laboratories. They said, “Who the hell are you? No one does this much lab work.” If this was on the doctor’s office and there’s five doctors working there, “Who are you again? You’re a nutritionist? You’re doing all these lab work?” Well yes, I did it actually because I didn’t know you can’t do it. [Laughter] Like, “You can’t do that. Who are you? You can’t do that.” and I just would explain how hard I’d like to work and the number of people and the system I was developing. Finally, it’s became time to start chasing it to other practitioners. I started deputizing with just about anyone at first. There’s a lot of they didn’t call them health coaches back then now there’s a lot medical health coaches, I think we’re pioneer in that area because they’re allied practitioner we’re not medical doctors for the most part. We have personal trainers and people who do raki and nutrition and dietitians and nurses and physical therapist and you just name it, chiropractors, acupuncture. Basically not MDs. What they want to focus on is underlying causes and conditions. Ashley, really quickly we’re talking about the history. It’s really important. In 1903, Thomas Edison said a very famous quote from the great inventor who was right about a lot of things but he was wrong about this and I see people using this quote all over the place it says, “The doctor of the future would give no medicine. But will interest his patients instead in care of the human frame in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease.” What is wrong? Doctors are still giving medicine. It’s 113 years later? When is the future? If it’s not now, when is it? If physicians are still giving medicine, who then is going to interest the person in the care of the human frame in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease? It’s health coaches and allied practitioners. We’re the ones. We’re the army if you will saying, give the care of disease to physicians. We freely grant them full monopoly. We don’t care about disease, you’re the experts. You studied disease. You studied symptoms that might kill someone. That’s a good thing. They can do stuff that I can’t do. I can’t order a CT scan to see if you have tumors and other great things that they can do. Although some of that is a big waste of money. I had client once who, I mentioned to her she was going to take that supplement. There’s possibility of that you might get a little bit of vasodilator headache. You might get some headaches if you take too much of this stuff. So back off you go back down to the original dosage and things like that. About 3 weeks later, I’m talking to her and she goes, “I’m going in for a brain scan from my headaches.” I go, “what?” she goes, ”I called my doctor and I told him I’ve been having headaches for three weeks, she wants to give me a brain scan.” I said, “Well okay, if three weeks, how long have you been taking that supplement that I suggested to take?” she said, “About 3 weeks.” Doctors look for brain tumors or things and we work in different ways. I think you get the point I’m trying to make. It’s good to get your brain scan I guess. I can’t order that test but it’s good to have a doctor around who’s licensed to do that but we look for things in a different way. What are the healing opportunities, it’s a different set of labs.


[36:11] Ashley James:  It’s a different philosophy. You’re looking at that through a different lens right? Looking for the healing opportunities and doctors are looking for what drugs can I prescribe. That’s their toolset. It’s a different philosophy.


[36:25] Reed Davis: It’s totally different. Again, back to this idea that there’s gaps. People are caught in a cycle of trial and error. There isn’t enough health coaches and allied practitioners around. The purpose and the fact that the populations getting more unhealthy. Drug uses getting more rampant. We have people being advertised to and television. Going to the doctors and saying, “Hey, I want to try these medication for whatever.” The doctor is they’re kind of market followers. “Well like, okay.” They’re trying to meet the demand. They wouldn’t just indiscriminately do it but you get the point I’m trying to make. We see the health of people getting worse. A doctor I was talking to, a good guy, he said to me, ”Reed, you know we’re ranked 38.” He goes, “In terms of health, United States had ranked second from the bottom of 48 civilized countries or whatever. Like that.” We’re ranked second from the bottom. Why is that?


[37:42] Ashley James: But we spent the most as a country, we spend the most on, they call it health care but it’s disease management. Yet we are basically getting the word results. If it was a country, if we looked at each country like a company, like a business. Like Amazon as a business. If Amazon was spending the most amount of money, and getting the second to last worst results like in terms of sales retention whatever. They would fire the CEO immediately and completely restructure their business or they’d go out of business. But because it is a for-profit business, there’s no sense. They don’t want to change it because they’re profiting. They’ll say, you’ll see that statistic like if you’re a type I diabetic or if you’re an insulin-dependent type II diabetic, they’ll say the cost to be a diabetic is $12,500 on average per person per year. They make it sound like it’s a cost to the country. Its cost but in fact, it’s profit. A diabetic is profiting the industry that doesn’t serve us that is not getting results. Why would they want to change? They’re profiting? Right? But we are the people as individual we are the ones getting screwed over because we’re getting the second to least results compared to all the other countries but we could go to a different country, spend less on health but you know that would go costly to fly or drive to a different country depending on where you live. Here we are. We’re stuck. But we have to do something different, right? We don’t want to leave the country we’re in for health care although some people do called medical tourism. So here we are. We have to understand that the system we have gets the second to worst results yet we pay the most for it. We have to understand that we’re stuck with that system but we’re not stuck with needing to go to an MD for absolutely everything. We have to understand like you pointed out, wonderful people to go to for certain things and for healing opportunities go to an allied practitioner like a health coach or naturopathic chiropractor. I don’t know about calling a Naturopath an allied practitioner because they’re legitimate doctors but they see it through a different lens.

Going to someone other than a doctor that’s just going to prescribe drugs. We need to take our health into our own hands. That’s why the listeners listening right now. So they can become educated and they can be highly informed and advocate for their own health. I will say one final thing on this, I say it often but we have new listeners all the time. As I’ve done all these interviews which I’ve done over 370 interviews for the last few years, it dawned on me somewhere along the line that if you want to be a statistic, do what everyone else is doing. The statistics right now, I believe it’s 1 of 3 people would get a cancer diagnosis in their lifetime. One in 3 people are obese. Or you know, overweight in an unhealthy way. One in 3 people have diabetes or pre-diabetic. And then you look at heart disease. My dad died of heart disease. My mom died of cancer so both two topics close to my heart. That we can help the listeners prevent it. Heart diseases is 100% reversible and preventable. I interviewed Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn a cardiologist who’s in his 80s who still practices today helping people reverse heart disease with diet. The point in this is that we could take action but we have to remember that we need to be summoned swimming upstream if we do what everyone else is doing, we’re going to be statistic. We have to be a little bit controversial. Right? Go get some lab tests done that a regular doctor would scoff at maybe. Change your diet, change your lifestyle. Look at that stress. Look at exercise. Look at all the things that the average person doesn’t in order to live along healthy life without disease. I’m so glad you’re going to outline some great actionable steps we can take today, you created the DRESS for success system to help people see that there are pillars of health that they could take into their own hands every day. To build their health and then using the abs, you look for healing opportunities to target what the body is saying it needs to focus on.


[43:23] Reed Davis: Exactly. That was a mouthful and very good. You were a change maker. Someone’s going to help change this system. Let’s just say the two systems can both exist. Again, it’s not like a wave to eliminated allopathic medicine we just can let that team have control over everything and us because they will just make us consume. We’re just going to be consumers of their stuff. The province of Ontario, we’re both from Ontario right? in Canada. I heard statics recently in the last couple of years, by 2020 60% of the entire Ontario government’s budget. 60% of the budget will go to healthcare. By 2025 or somewhere in there, another 10 years, maybe 20 30 even it will be 80% of the entire government’s budget will just go towards healthcare. Now everybody’s going to be on a the medical dole if you will. Just for all the money’s going to go. It’s a system where you’re right, there is greed and a lot of profit motivation for this. The people who are in the receiving end of the check, like government’s writing the check, who’s getting the check? Who’s getting paid? We want to change people’s thinking. I also just want to throw in that what we do is for profit also. I learned to make a living helping people. It’s an honest living though. It’s doing work, it’s very rewarding that does some good in the world. It will be a legacy, it will be passed on. You and I are of the same elk we’re working together to affect those kind of change and you don’t do it by going along with the pack. You do it by doing somewhat controversial. At least, can’t I ask some questions? Like if you go to a physician, he says, “Yes. I found your problem. You’re hypothyroid that why you’re tired and constipated and gaining weight and can’t lose it, your hairs falling out and you feel sad. It’s hypothyroid. Here’s your medication.” If you say that, “Doctor, why is my thyroid underactive?” We don’t know it’s idiopathic.

When you hear that word, idiopathic means, it means they’re not looking for the answer. It really means, “We don’t know but it means we’re not looking because that’s not how they operate. It isn’t by the way just the drug companies, it’s insurance companies play a huge part in it. That goes back to original comments Ashley about physicians feel like they’re wearing handcuffs. They can’t say anything else. They get reprimanded by their board. If they’re selling supplements, their office are doing some of these things, alternative stuff insurance doesn’t pay for it. They can get a letter to cease and desist or we’ll take your license away. How many are brave enough to say, “Go ahead. Take it. I’m going to do some good in the world and you can keep it.” They’re not just brave at this point. There’s got to be another system not to replace it but to operate side by side that can end up being a bigger system. The one that the people choose when the people go to. I’ve been a working-class here all my whole life. I’ve always admired them anyway. I actually do right to Harley Davidson through the mountains of California at least three times a week and try to do some good in the world and enjoy the lives that walk the talk. I can’t say profits are a bad things I’m just saying you can make an honest living helping people if you want to. That’s a big part of my course is showing other people to of this as a profession. Most people would sign up to their own health and their families. They just want to learn, it’s very affordable. I do this post-grad interviews and I always ask every single graduate in my program I personally interview and I have for 11 years. I have done thousands of interviews that’s “Why did you take the FDN course? What did it meant to you?” Way more than half would say, 75% say, “My own personal health challenges have been completely resolved, partially resolved. I’m working on it. I’m on my journey I felt so much better. I can’t wait to share it with others. I’m going to go out there and now I’m going to do this for a living.” Or we’ve had people start their business, augment their business or shift from whatever they were doing for living to doing this for a living. It’s okay to make money, as long as you’re doing some good in the world in my opinion.



[48:22] Ashley James: It is not evil. I want every single one of my listeners to live a life that they absolutely love and be well taken care of. To have the means to have the amount of money that provides them with the ability to live their dreams. Money is not evil, it’s what you do with it. You have to give your money, I just paid my bills today so I just paid our health insurance and we don’t buy the most expensive but we don’t buy the most cheap. I always buy the one that covers holistic medicine but we’re nowhere reaching our deductible because we obviously use it a bunch but we do go to our Naturopath, to our chiropractor, acupuncture. That kind of thing. It’s $1,500 a month for the three of us for our family. Last year it was a different plan, it was $1,800. I’m like every time I pay it, I just feel resentment. I feel frustrated. I think to myself why don’t I just not have health insurance and then just save some money or put aside then there’s all these diff options and I’m so obviously like I do the podcast and I’m a very hard worker and I get this podcast to help as many people as possible. That’s a huge percentage of our income goes towards medical expenses for a system that is broken. For a system that isn’t getting results. Right? If this system was designed, if every practitioner had your course, every practitioner in the entire world, even every MD knew what you taught and they practice what you taught, our medical bills would be so small it would save us so much money. Every time I pay it I feel resentful because I’m paying a system that doesn’t work. Now I absolutely have id be overjoyed to pay a functional medicine practitioner and I want them to profit because they get results.

It’s about results. It’s evil when you have to give something or a company you have to pay some money to something that gets very poor results and you feel like you’re ripped off. It’s more about feeling ripped off whereas with functional diagnostic nutrition, I know it gets results. Just like seeing a Naturopath I know I’m going to get significantly better results than seeing an MD for certain issues. You want to go the right practitioner from the results you want. I think that’s just really important to understand that there are these allied practitioners out there. I’ve had listeners contact me that said, “I never knew that Naturopaths existed until I listen to your show.” They just didn’t know. Because that’s not part of the mainstream I guess, Hollywood right? And TV and media. The media we consume growing up is all about ER and Grey’s Anatomy and there’s no show following acupuncturists around. I think that’ll be hilarious. I definitely want to get into understanding a bit about the tests. That if you could give us some examples of lab tests that people when they take your course that they learn to order both for themselves and also for their clients and to just give us a contrast compared to like what someone would get when they go to an MD versus when they’re going to a functional diagnostic nutritionist?


[52:09] Reed Davis: Fantastic. The place to start the labs is how do you think about it? It’s really a state of mind or we call it FDN a methodology. Methodology is a method with a way of thinking attached to it. There’s a philosophy or a state of mind that’s required. Since for non-physician, we can’t diagnose and treat conditions. That would be practicing medicine without license. We don’t want to. We want to just get the underlying causes or conditions. They’re not always identifiable the so called root cause. You hear people talking about this. You may never find the root cause. It could be really well hidden or there just isn’t enough test. There’s no test that’s for sure. It’s not that this blood work that they’re running. We might be 50 or hundred years away to a blood test that tells you everything if it ever happens. We’re definitely not in a land of Star Trek where I don’t know if you remember Dr. Macoy had that little thing and he would wave it over the patient’s chest and then “Oh, it’s this or that here’s your shot of whatever” and that was really allopathic even though it was supposed to be way in the future. Those things don’t exist. The root cause may be very hard to determine but you can still have an effect upon it. That’s the thinking that you can have an effect upon the root if you can just get close to it. People are coming again on that second they’ve been told by their physician that there’s nothing wrong with you or you’ve got this or that and here’s your pills. Let’s treat the paper. They’re in a cycle of trial and error. Those people where they do? They go online. They’re going to get a million hits on any condition they put in. You type in diabetes or thyroid or digestion disorder. Whatever it is. You’re going to get a million of things to look at. Or you go in your neighborhood and you find there’s a guy down the street doing even Naturopaths and so they do a diet program, they’d do an exercise program, they do a supplement therapy. They do some other therapy with some gizmo and they’re making a ton of money kind of praying on people’s discomfort. People are stuck in the cycle and they get pretty desperate.

They just want someone that can help them. They’re spending a ton of money, people are making a ton of money but it’s really not filing the needs and the way we know that is people still walking around with all other problems. If something besides what we do and we’re just catching on really work then all these other people would be out of business. That would be part of my objective is to get more people doing what really works. Anyway, so you got this way of thinking that there’s an underlying cause or condition and how close can we get to it. We can’t give them medical diagnosis and we don’t want to. I have one diagnosis and you might have heard this I call it metabolic chaos. There’s just things wrong going the body. Everyone has different weak links in metabolism. There are thousands and thousands of metabolic processes going on in the body 24hrs a day. Most of them under control of the autonomic nervous system. Your sympathetic and parasympathetic balance of course and all these other things going on. There’s this idea that if symptoms incurred somewhere downstream that’s just another problem is showing up. Upstream from that is dysfunctional and misprocesses and above that is just what I call is metabolic chaos. Things are not working the way they designed it to work. The design is perfect you don’t have to teach these cells what their job is certainly. You don’t have to teach any tissue what kind of tissue it is. It knows if it’s a brain tissue or adrenal tissue or muscle tissue whatever. All the cells, tissues, organs and systems, the what their job is it’s just being interfered in some way and not supported in some way. Everyone’s so different that the opportunity for voids in that system for weak links is just really abundant. There are just millions of things that could be going on. Some of them all at once. We have one diagnosis. It’s metabolic chaos. There’s stuff going on. Our way of looking at it. This is just the discoveries that I’ve made.

Ashley, I’m answering your question now. I ran five labs in every person. And it’s because all the people I try to help, we start with a lady who had low bone density and then what helps with bone density, the hormones, we start testing hormones. What I found out just by working with people, sheer numbers. The people who had low bone density when we worked at their hormones, not only could we help them with their boned density but they felt better. They got more energy, their brain fog went away, their sex drive came back, their weight normalized, their immune system improved but still it wasn’t quite whether something else – I learned to check for hormones in every person using saliva testing and we checked the immune system. You can use saliva testing for that. Which I found out that when I ran another test, we call the metabolic assessment profile which is a urine test. We checked digestion to make sure they’re actually breaking down and absorbing food properly and that leads into dysbiosis and things going on in the gut that just aren’t right. Also detoxification. Is the liver clearing the blood that we’re supposed to? Three pints of blood a minute go through the liver. Three pints a minute? That’s a lot of blood flowing through your liver and most of that blood is supplied off of the digestive tract. There is some blood coming in the rest of the body to the liver through an artery but the rest of it comes it sort of drained off the digestive system. You got all these things going on. Again, you can make observations. You can collect saliva, you can collect urine, you can collect stool and you can collect blood of course. And start making observations.

This happened over a long period of time. I ran a ton of labs and I narrowed it down to what would give me the most healing opportunities for the money. People are going to invest, they have to pay me my professional fees and they have to pay for the lab work. It sounds like where am I going to get a lot of people who do that? they’re everywhere because people are sick. They’re sick and tired of being on it, the cycle of trial and error that they’re in and will spend out of their pocket. Last year you said you’re spending over $20,000 a year on what’s so called health care like insurance and it doesn’t even cover the kind of health care that you want. It really covers like emergencies that’s not a bad thing. Maybe you should buy insurance that only covers emergencies for $5,000 a year. That’d be reasonable. The rest of the money you spend it where you want. On care of the human frame or on diet and the causes and prevention of disease. You could spend it a little better and execute everything cover that you want for your 20 grand. That more than some people make by the way. Some families of three or four people. At least in this country. You got this mindset. It’s a methodology, it’s a step by step process. I ran those five labs in everyone. Hormone, immune, digestion, detoxification, healing opportunities, energy production, and nervous autonomic balance. Sympathetic and parasympathetic have to be balanced for your body to function, right? We look for these opportunities. Now some person we might find 10 things to work on, another person five someone else, 15. It just depends on the person. Everyone is different. Everyone has this vital voids or weak links in metabolism. Again, we’re not diagnosing or treating some specific disease look here’s what’s wrong with your body. If you fix those things, then downstream what you see in your doctor for hyperthyroidism, irritable bowel or chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia or brain fog, cloudy thinking all these things. That stuff should go away if we fix everything upstream.

As a matter of fact you can remember it like this the word hidden. I call them the hidden stressors and dysfunctions. Hormone, immune, digestion, detoxification, energy production, and nervous system balance. H-I-D-D-E-N. Easy to remember right? Yes. H-I-D-D-E-N, the hidden stressors, and dysfunctions. You ran some small handful of labs, they’re not that expensive you can get them done and you have a professional. I’ve trained almost 3,000 people. I’ve trained those for you because everyone’s an individual and it matters whose test results are these. That’s another down side to allopathic medicine is everyone’s the same. All of their studies are on what’s called a cohort. No one person that it applies to it. On a group of 50,000 people approved lifespan by 20% with this drug. Of course, 18 of those people died from the drug and another 19 are permanently braindead or something damaged. You get the point? So we don’t work with cohorts. We work with individuals. That’s the other part of the methodology. It’s a method step by step it’s a way of thinking about the human body in each person individually.

We look for this healing opportunities in the HIDDEN stressors and dysfunctions that I just determine overrunning of thousands of labs on thousands of people will get you the best results. Will get you back to sleeping well. Get up feet on the floor running. You got lost of energy to get through. If you eat your breakfast, you know you’re going to have energy to get through to lunch get a lot of stuff done. Same thing between lunch and dinner and then you’re still going to have energy and clear thinking to enjoy your kids and all the stuff that we all want to do. It’s all high-quality life. Also preventative. My theory in anti-aging using that system, you should feel 40 until you’re 80. Anti-aging isn’t, you don’t wait until you’re 65. Look I’m 66 years old, think honest 20 years ago when I was pretty much abusing my body without knowing. I call it a well-used body. I’ve done some bad things to it but I was trying to fit in this methodology and also approach as an anti-aging tool. It will get you over the things that you’re dealing with that you don’t like about the way you look or feel. Without going to physician getting medical diagnosis and treating that specific thing with drugs or worse surgery. So once you do this assessment and it will include a very careful history taking of your complaints or the main ones you want to go away. How often those things bother you, how long has it been going on, what things you tried first, what’s your motivation running your life, you have to be motivated client for us to take you on. We would run those labs and then we would individualize the protocol, design a d-r-e-s-s program. Be very happy to go into the more details on the labs if you want. Like what hormones we’ll look at or what markers or we could go towards the DRESS program. How does that work? What are the specific questions?


[01:04:41] Ashley James: This is good. Let’s start with because I know my listeners are probably on the edges of the seat going, “Yes, tell us more of these labs.” We have a Facebook group. The Learn True Health Facebook group and so many times people are asking about labs by we have to have the right philosophy and mindset when looking at labs. We can’t be reductionist which is like allopathic medicine just looking at one thing like I’m going to look at the liver and that’s very reductionist just to look at one organ only. We need to look at the whole system because every organ affects the other. Every hormone affects, everything affects everything right? We need to look at everything as a whole. When you’re looking at thyroid and you’re looking at cortisol and liver and digestion and energy and sleep and all these. What I’d love to know if you could give some examples of labs or what are the absolute must labs that you always run with people. Of course it’s individualized because one person comes to you and their health history is all about digestion the other comes to you and it’s all about headaches and maybe nervous system stuff. doesn’t seem related but you dive in deeper and absolutely could be related because again, everything affect everything in the body. Please explain more about these labs that people learn to run in the functional diagnostic nutrition course and learn to run on themselves and their clients.



[01:06:16] Reed Davis: Again, back to the early days of doing the bone density testing. One I was finding is that I should look at hormones at every person. I was doing it just specific to the bones but I realized after a while testing enough people, that “Wow. This is critical for all kinds of reason not just how it affects the body.” Just what you just said, it affects everything. We run a saliva test. We take a morning, noon, afternoon, nighttime saliva sample. We look at cortisol and DHEA. Cortisol is your stress hormone. You could look at the pattern of cortisol and DHEA which is a counter regularity to your stress hormone. You have stress hormones which are catabolic and it breaks your body down. You’re under stress and then you have the anabolic beginning with DHEA, that’s the parent of your sex hormones, so that’s your anabolic. You need catabolic and anabolic balance. The bodybuilding up and the body breaking down. There’s a normal amount of each. Does that makes sense? Let’s look at catabolism. We find people that are overly catabolic. They’re cortisol dominant. Their bodies are breaking down. It’s not like you’re going to treat the paper like “Oh, here’s something for the other side.

We’re not just going to prescribe or recommend. There’s supplements that can do that. You can treat the paper even in naturopathic medicine. We start obviously what? Looking for the stressors. Why are you in this catabolic state? Is it just mental-emotional? When I say they were stressed? What do people think? They hate their boss, their kids, god I don’t know. They have mental-emotional stress but there’s also physical trauma and things like pain. Walking around in pain is very stressful. The body responds the same to either thing if your neck hurts its response is catabolism. Cortisol dominance. If you are in a  fight with your spouse all the time it responds the same way. Also the same thing with internal hidden stressors that dysfunctions in your bodies that occur over time or parasites, bacteria, funguses, viruses or food sensitivities, and things. Environment influences, new draperies can cause hell in the household because the outgassing of chemicals and fire and other things. What we do is we look at that to assess the cortisol DHEA ratio as a marker for catabolic anabolic balance. We need to get this in balance or nothing else matters. Why treat one little thing downstream when we can go upstream to a major factor like that. Oh, by the way instead on a pathway of investigating the stressors and some of that again, requires the investigation, the intake, careful history taking and things. A person might have a hobby that’s actually hurting them.

They’re spray painting little figurines in their garage sucking up paint spray, that’s not a good thing. Anyway, you get the point, there’s investigation involved including the lab work. We can look for food sensitivities, parasites, bacteria, fungus, viruses and things that they don’t even know is there and physicians are looking for the most part. We look at a major thing like hormone balance. The catabolic anabolic hormones and also while you’re doing that. As long as you’re collecting saliva, one I look at the sex hormones because estrogen need to be in balance with progesterone in women testosterone needs to be balanced and we can even look at melatonin. That’s not a sex hormone but that’s hormone that’s important we can get that from the night time sample. We can do a morning, noon, and nighttime evening – morning noon, afternoon and night time saliva sample. Get a lot of information and frankly again, standard physicians don’t recommend tests they’re not looking for that. They’re looking for disease. They’re looking for a way, cholesterol or whatever it is that they’re looking for deepening on your complaint. That’s some pretty important test. Saliva test to cover those things. Again this was just one of the first tests I started running because I was looking for a specific thing like bone density but I found out the ramifications of it by running thousands of it and giving those same people things to do. To look at the stressors, let’s run some more labs and narrow it down to these five labs. That’s one. It’s a hypothalamic pituitary adrenal stress indicator type test. We’ll also run by the way saliva’s easy to collect at home and send in at your convenience and it’s not really expensive so it’s a good investment as is this urine testing that we do.

Again easy collecting at home. We look at that digestive marker. Are you breaking down protein? By what you collect in the urine. You can see how well a person’s breaking down protein. If you’re not breaking down protein, I see amino acids. Amino acids turn into neurotransmitters. Think of all the ramifications of having neurotransmitters are out of balance. Your moodiness, your irritability and all the other things that are going on in your body that require good neurotransmitters. The other things that amino acids are good for like they’re the building blocks of all the enzyme and tissues in your body. Things like that. It’s remarkable how important breaking down protein is. That same marker, if you’re not breaking down protein, how well do you think you’re breaking down your carbohydrates and your fats? There’s other ways to look at that but it’s a great test and on the same lab, the same urine sample, again we’re trying to get the most bang form the book. We can look at oxidative stress. What’s another indicator of excessive stress at some form toxins or something in your environment. You could be over-exercising, you could be smoking, you could be exposed to other toxins or you could get internal toxic producing organisms or processes. So we look at oxidative stress. Basically if you cut open an apple, it turns brown, right? That’s oxidative stress. Oxygen, free radicals, and excess of that is a bad sign. It’s great marker as an overall assessment of health. Something again physicians just aren’t looking at because it’s an insidious long term contributor to chronic degenerative disease.


[01:12:59] Ashley James:  I did not know that you could do urine testing to see your oxidative stress. That’s amazing. Just thinking about oxidative stress, one of the Naturopaths that mentored me he described, he’s a pathologist before he became a Naturopath, he says that cholesterol, the bad cholesterol is oxidized cholesterol, it’s oxidized fat. It’s not, it doesn’t cause disease in and of itself. It’s like saying, look over there there’s smoke. It’s the effect of oxidation. If you take someone who eats fries everyday like fried and deep-fried, that contributes hugely to oxidative stress to the body. Eating anything with oil and fried food. So that person would then have that. Have high levels of oxidative stress but also people are low in selenium for example because selenium recycles the body’s own glutathione which is our antioxidant and so I can see where your starting to put the puzzle pieces together because you’re looking at their diet and their lifestyle. If you see that their melatonin is low and that saliva test and that you see that their protein is low in that urine test you’re like, there you go because their melatonin’s low because they’re not getting the amino acids to the body needs to make the melatonin so you’re starting be that detective. Am I on to something there? Is that how it works?


[01:14:29] Reed Davis: Yes. I’m impressed with your knowledge of oxidative stress. It’s another form of stress that creates an imbalance between the free radicals and the body’s ability to counteract them. That’s why we take anti-oxidants and we include anti-oxidants in our diet. We need the vitamin C, D, and E and these things from food hopefully but if not, you can take some if you take excessive oxidative stress you want to increase the anti-oxidants but you also want to go, that started the immediate care idea. Again, we don’t want to just treat the paper or use the paper to sell supplements or supplement program. That’s another unfortunate occurrence but we want to find out why again it could be over-exercise, smoking or something else hidden. We would just use it with the detective mentality. Like here it is, here’s the problem, your oxidative versus anti-oxidative balance is off. You have an imbalance, let’s correct it. That’s a pillar as you mentioned that can be corrected with our lifestyle program.

 The diet and supplements especially the right kind of exercise, getting the right amount of sleep all these things are critical. So far, we’ve looked at saliva testing, all the hormone, anabolic and catabolic balance, the balance between the sex hormone, getting a peek at melatonin which is I could fill in the blanks in there more, that’s a great anti-oxidant by the way. Most of us made in the gut, people aren’t aware of that. They think it’s just from the penile glands at night time, not true. You do this saliva test, you do this urine test, we said we can look at how well you can breaking down protein which is reflective of how you’re breaking down other things. It’s also reflective of the dysbiotic condition we find in people’s guts. Not enough good flora vs the bad flora. That’s where a lot of your protein that comes from. It’s the bacterial breakdown. We’re looking at that for a saliva, form a urine test on the same urine test, let’s look at the oxidative stress. From the same urine test, we’re going to look at liver function. It’s not the enzymes and things that physicians look at to see if you have a disease it’s just that it congest it. If you’re spilling this it violates and sulfates over into the urine, they collected by kidneys and excreted and we can measure them. If you have a congested liver like before the recording started, we talked a little bit about this scenario that you might want to work on. We see people are overweight there’s so much fatty liver around, it’s unbelievable. Liver it does a lot of things. A couple hundred different operations but if you just look at it as a vacuum cleaner bag collecting toxins and unwanted particles off the digestive track and wherever you’ve got to change your vacuum cleaner bag don’t you?

If you ever changed a bag in a vacuum cleaner the old ones that used to have bags you know that it runs a good vacuum cleaner when you changed that bag when it gets too stuff it’s not working, you put a bag in it, you get a brand new vacuum cleaner. The liver can be assessed that way. That what’s included in this urine test. We’ve only run two tests, we haven’t spent much money but we’ve discovered a lot of healing opportunities. The catabolic anabolic imbalances, the sex hormone imbalances, the low melatonin could be real problem point to figure out, gut dysfunction and things, we’ve looked at dysbiosis and protein and other food breakdown. We’ve looked at the oxidative stress, we’ve looked at liver congestion. That’s a lot of bang for the book and we haven’t given any medical diagnosis. I’m not playing doctor. We’re just being detectives trying to help people or ourselves figure out what’s really wrong. Where can I clean myself up in these upstream functions so that downstream I have to just feel better? I have more energy and I lose the weight. I have a better ability to build muscle, sex life, whatever it is to you that is not right about. The thing about the look or feel that you want to change. That’s only two tests. Another really important one I’d run just about everybody, depending on how they come to us and people come with all these metabolic chaos, they’ve got multiple complaints hardly anyone says it’s just my hangnail, if I had a little more energy I’d be better. They’ve got multiple complaints. Some of them walk around these things for years and years and years, they’ve seen 10 people already and everyone kind of picks and chooses. Try my therapy, try my little machine or my whatever they’re doing. Individual therapies and modalities. When that doesn’t work, you’ve got to start looking upstream and that’s what my entire system is abided on. I would look at gut function a little deeper. I like running an intestinal permeability test just to make sure that your villi and microvilli are in good shape. That you don’t have excessive permeability at the gut, things like that because it’s a healing opportunity. You can call it it’s all kinds of problems for a person. Just unbelievable amount of problems. Include eventually autoimmune conditions and serious stuff. That, by the way, is another urine test do it at home. Doesn’t cost a lot and you can get these markers and start doing the things that takes to repair the damage. There’s two of more tests as a matter of fact if you just ran those three you’ve got a hell of an assessment. “Wow, look at all the stuff that I can fix. Finally, someone has figured out what’s really wrong with me. How do I fix it?” Well, there’s a couple more tests critical in that process. Now we’re ready for the DRESS program but the easy way to shortcut like diet, for instance, is to run a food sensitivity test. We can get into the DRESS program now but the story hidden stressor is the parasites, bacteria, fungus. Those are all easily detectable on stool testing. There’s different ones, there’s microscopy, there’s microscope. There’s culturing you can put the stool in Petri dishes and see what kind of pus grows on it for bacteria or even yeast. You can also run DNA testing. There’s ways to look at the stool that are very informative. More healing opportunities like if you have bugs. You’ve got to get rid of them. You can go to doctor for that or people mostly are choosing to self-treat using age-old botanical treatments. More that are less toxic less harmful to the good bacteria and things. How do you like them apples so far?



[01:21:51] Ashley James: I like it. I like that its sounds really non-invasive. Saliva and urine test and stool test. All things you can do at home and mail in. There are mold and parasites, a huge problem that people aren’t aware of. Most people aren’t aware that they could live in several different states and they can actually take mold with them in their belongings and many houses in different states even out in the desert where you think, “It’s like humid here.” Absolutely, you can have mold in the dessert living in Las Vegas for example or living in the mountains. Mold is huge and it is a big problem for our health. I’ve had several experts on the show talk about it and it can cause so many different symptoms but obviously immune problems like if someone goes, “Man, I just catch every single flu and every single cold that comes around. I just feel like I’m always sick.” Something’s going on that your immune system is so taxed right now. What is going on? Parasites we think just because we have clean water and we wash our hands, we don’t live among filth like we did thousand years ago. That there is someone immune to parasites right because we live indoors where there is no mosquitoes biting us every day so we don’t think that insects, you know parasites are kind of like parasites if you think about it. Could bug us and you go outside and you can’t and you start to become aware that we are just animals.

We are animals that are a little bit more sophisticated but we are not impervious to parasites and all animals can get parasitic infections like we can get a bacterial infection. I’d love for you to just explain a little bit more about mold and parasites because even if someone had some health issues that are like persistent, it’ll be great to rule out. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if they discover that the root cause was mold? Or the root cause was a chronic parasitic infection? Wouldn’t that be wonderful because it’s so easy to manage versus everything’s’ out of whack, where do I start? Of course do the DRESS. Do the diet, rest, exercise, stress reduction and supplements to fill in the gaps. Obviously a 100 % of the population would benefit from that formula but wouldn’t it be wonderful if someone suffering and it’s an easy fix, right? To dress mold and parasite rather than years of dialing stuff in and still suffering. If you could tell us a bit more about the parasite and mold testing that would be wonderful.



[01:24:50] Reed Davis: Okay, sure. In context with what I was saying the investigation, looking at these critical markers for balance in your body. Moving on to than what more specifically is part of the stress takes you this metabolic chaos going on in my body and the things that you can do like some of the testing to determine. Stool testing for parasites, bacteria, and fungus is common. I mean we test everyone for that, now you find things but there’s the issue I have with it people think, “Oh, I found your problem.” there’s people who caught on to that there’s parasites for instance or bacteria like H. pylori and these different things and fungi and things. They’re thinking that they found the problem. Take you back on the whole vitalistic theory. You were already sick for the most part before your symptoms occur. Your immune system would have to be pretty compromised before some of these very common bugs, by the way, if you look at some of the literature, they’re not even considered a problem, they’re considered commercial or sort of normal to have some bacteria and parasite.

You can make a mistake easily by saying, “Oh, your problem sounds like parasites.” See some digestive issues and things like that, pain in the gut or whatever. Diarrhea and things, it sounds like a parasite then you check and you pat yourself on the back “Yes, I found your problem, it’s parasite. We’ll get rid of it and you’ll be fine.” No, you have to heal the whole person. You have to heal their entire digestive tract and bring their immune system back to balance and order. It’s not as simplistic as, “Oh I found this parasite now I’m all better.” You might feel better initially but you’re going to get the next bug that come along if you don’t really repair the whole person. Mold is a little different because – by the way you can run a test it’s called H-E-R-M-I. The hermi test for mold in your house. That’s the sort of best test for finding out if you got the kind of mold that will make you sick and there’s no good molds for us has been exposed to especially when it turns into something you can inhale. If it turns that can be inhaled that’s a bad deal for anybody. We recommend certain people with certain conditions. If you want to learn a lot about mold, I would go to survivingmold.com. Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker is probably the world’s leading expert in that area of research. He’s really specialized in water-damaged buildings and the molds and the long term chronic effects and how to remediate the building mostly you just want to get out, get ways from it. Then what happens to the body, unfortunately, what happens to the body can be really kind of diluted and the testing can be more expensive and hard to get for what it does to your immune system and inflammatory processes in your body. It really wakes up some complementary pathways and it can be really hard to detoxify molds. It’s very insistent. It loves to just re-circulate. It’s a very hard to bind to get out of the body. Because they’re mold toxins, it’s not the mold itself they’re just toxins from the mold. There is what’s called the micro toxin test, you can measure for that. but it’s not our first-line test. I don’t just run a micro toxin test to people. We have to clean them up first.

The FDN program looking at the hormone, immune, digestive, detox so on is a grounding program to get yourself cleaned up where you should be better. You should be a whole lot better. I’m talking about just three months of doing our DRESS program. Doing our customized for your test results and your history. If you do that customized DRESS program, the diet, the rest, the exercise, the stress reduction, the supplementation. 90 days you should really turn the corner or made it a few steps up the ladder so to speak. Yes, I feel a lot better. Then we start getting into more insidious things that could be in your environment. We don’t chase the mentality we still just being good health detectives. I’m not a person automatically would just pick a test like a mold test. I have some good screenings for it. There’s a nasal swab you could do for more things that’s pretty cheap. But I wouldn’t just run as a first-line. I just hate this idea, Ashley, it’s never worked for me anyway to put it that way. To try to guess what the problem is based on symptoms, remember we’re trying to get ways from that. Because people, walk-in from regular doctor, regular Naturopath you know I’ve got this traditionally reliable cluster of symptoms that sound like thyroid. Or traditionally reliable that sounds like chronic fatigue you known whatever it might be, “Oh, let’s run a test for that.” unfortunately, they find something that they say I’d the answer to your problem. It’s hyperthyroidism and the doctor would write a prescription, Naturopath would sell supplements, helping to get the test results in range. You might even get the symptoms to a bit but something there is going to come back or new set of symptoms occurs because you haven’t really sorted out the chaos upstream. When the chaos or new set of symptoms appear if you just say, “Now, it sounds like low testosterone, run that test and yes, so now you have a person, yes, it’s your low testosterone. Now you’re on your thyroid medicine and your testosterone, what’s next?” It’s a new cycle of trial and error. Unfortunately, a lot of people do with mold, they focus on that one things. They don’t really address the entire person. Including all the stressors. The mental-emotional, the physical trauma, bodies that are all banged up. That hidden I would call that a major contributor to metabolic chaos. Mold really sucks. That’s my medical diagnosis.


[01:31:57] Ashley James: Very technical.


[01:32:00] Reed Davis: Yes. We’re speaking big terms here.


[01:32:02] Ashley James: I heard that parasite testing could be a bit more complicated because parasites can hide in the body. How do you account for that?


[01:32:12] Reed Davis: Well, they do. It’s not just parasite, it’s bacteria they like to hang out together. If you go back to what I said about it, even if you find a bug if you think you’re just going to take something and kill that bug and return to normal it’s unlikely. There are called biofilms which is where they hang out together there’s what’s called comsensing. The bugs know that the other bugs are there and they start hanging out together. They start not interbreeding but that becomes fertile ground for them to replicate to grow and even to mutate like fungus mutates. You can get so called would be called normal spores and things but once it take hold it can become very invasive. Punch holes in your intestines for instance. It can get really bad. What we do generally again, this depends on the initial intake like it’s really important to take the history. We have our own intake forms of things we use. Make sure that our clients are filling out a good number of forms. It sounds like a lot of work but probably isn’t going to take more than 15 minutes per from each form, each form that we have. People threw out three or four forms. It’s a good investment in helping us to number one, take stock of where you are today. As a practitioner that’s very important. we don’t want them changing their mind about what their problem was 3 months down the road. Like, “Hey, we’ve been working on your migraines and now you said you’re complaining about your toenail are swollen.”  You’ve got to get a good history and make people stop and think where they’re at. You can grade those things too. We do that, that will have us then running labs and get people on the DRESS program and their problem start to fade away. We actually have a point system for those intake forms. Some might have 300 points or 90 days or 180 days, 6 months down the road. They’re down to like not very many points but everyone has some points in there what. So you got that which is both objective and subjective.

You got the lab work which is all objective. Periodly objective, it’s what’s really going on inside your body. Then you have progress being made. Let’s make a point here that no one sat at the top of the hill. I don’t know anyone with perfect health. I know everyone’s on a stairway towards it but I don’t know too many people that – I’ve arrived here I am on the top of the mountain but we’re all – some of us have more stairs to climb than others. We look up to the people who are sort of able to help us and guide us and we look down and we help those what more steps up we help people up. Like I personally, 66 years old. I’ve a very banged up body from sports, motorcycles and just surfing. Just things that I wrecked. Muscular skeletal mostly. Also during my 20s and 30s was exposed in a lot of chemicals in different profession. Different job I was in. I don’t know what exactly what did that to my liver. I’m always watching. I’m always working. Again, I have less stairs to climb than most of my clients and my students come along and same thing. We’re all just on a continuum of improving. I don’t know anyone at the top so just with that mentality, let’s look at what are the healing opportunities and what are the things that I can do and just I can answer more questions about the testing but I want to talk a little bit more about the DRESS program.


[01:36:12] Ashley James: Yes. We’ll definitely get into that. Absolutely. Before we do, I have one last question about labs and that lab companies. I’ve heard stories about how it can vary results can vary from lab to lab. Do you have one company you work with? Or do you have handful companies like Doctors Data for example? Or Great Plains labs? Do you have handful that you’re like, I really find that these labs are the best in terms of results or do you have one specific lab that is just the best? I’d love for you to shed a bit of light on that.


[01:36:49] Reed Davis: The answer is it depends on what you’re testing for. There’s no lab that’s a specialist in every kind of testing or for everything. They are companies all they do is genetic testing. That’s all they do. You can even just run the 23 in me and then do what’s that cheap and then you can run it through various software. There’s one called Prometheus that I like but there’s other. The hard thing about my job is that no stuff coming out all the time. It’s hard to be on top of every new discovery and research and things that are going on and half of them could be junk because there’s no end to the amount of money being spent in this industry. So I do my best to vet out things and there’s a company called Bio Health Laboratories. I’ve been using them for20 years because I think they do the best saliva testing for that HPA access stress profile. I think they’re the best. I mean the quality and the quality assurance. I’ve been working with them for 20 years and I’m actually clinical advisor on their clinical advisor team. Great Plains you mentioned them, they’re a great lab. I use them for the micro toxin testing. They also have a finger stick test for food sensitivities. It’s not the best food sensitivity test but there’s nothing else around it can be shipped anywhere in the world. You prick finger and you put drops of blood on the blotter and you send it in the company. It doesn’t have to be frozen or anything like that. It’s stable for a week in the mail would be okay. You get a rough idea of the foods you’re sensitive to, it helps fine-tune your diet. You mentioned Doctor’s Data. They’re a good lab. By the way, this bio laboratories does an excellent stool test for pathology. Is there other stuff you could run the stool test for? Yes. Bio health doesn’t run those other parts of the test. There’s DSL which is a good test. They do DNA testing on stool. So to answer your questions, it’s various labs depending on what you’re looking for.


[01:39:04] Ashley James: You’d want DNA lab testing on stool because you’re DNA testing not for human DNA? Your DNA testing for parasites? is that correct?


[01:39:11] Reed Davis: The bugs, yes.


[01:39:12] Ashley James: Okay.


[01:39:13] Reed Davis: Yes but the mere presence of their DNA this is why I like some other testing isn’t telling you really have virulent it is. When you run a stool test and you culture, they take the stool and they shake it up real good and they mix it with a couple of things and it becomes a puree and then they are able to put it in these Petri dishes. They could grow eight different dishes with different mediums or EGAR in each dish, put it in an incubator for a few days and see what grows. Depending on the medium, you get growing different pusses. If there’s little bit of pus or a lot of pus that could make it a difference in your individual assessment of that person and what they need to do next. Also microscopy. There’s sometimes just looking through these high-powered microscope just having a really good lab rat. That’s his or her job and she just sits there and looks for bugs or bug parts and that will fit. Sometimes a human being involved it’s very important. There’s various types of stool testing and DNA is branded about as the ultimate best because it’s looking for non-human material and by the way you can look for that same test looks for other markers that could be reflecting how well you’re digesting things, how much pancreatic enzymes you have. There’s a lot to skin the cat. Once you’re trained in the basics and you can start to look in the finer details and individualized the labs you choose for each individual person. Again, it’s never about the test results, really it’s whose test results are these. That’s part of the methodology and mentality. Yes, I’ve compared a lot of labs like oxford biomedical for food sensitivity testing, they run what’s called the mediator release test. Unfortunately, it’s not covered by insurance and most of this isn’t because even though that test has been used for 25 years. It’s still called experimental by insurance companies. Why? Why because they don’t want to pay for it. Remember I told you about the miracle case Susan about depression and she’s got the hives for 2 years and she has been on this anti-inflammatory that made her gain 40pounds. That’s the test I ran and found her problem. Now I ran it on every person. Do I always hit home runs out of the park by running that test? No, because people are going to have food sensitivities and it’s the major factor in their problems like migraines. I’ve seen migraines gone but no other people the food sensitivities aren’t that big of contributor to the metabolic chaos. They’re minor contributor to the metabolic chaos that is producing the symptoms downstream.

For one little boy I’ve got to tell you, this is way back in the day. A lady was in for chiropractic and we’re talking your own health says, “I just wonder if you could help my boy, Billy. He’s 9 or 10 he’s always in trouble at school. They want to put them on drugs for ADD.” They have teachers diagnosing in the classroom. They want to put him on drugs for ADD because instead of paying attention to the teacher, he’s paying attention to the gardeners working outside or something. It’s telling something with this little boy. Anyway, we just did that test on that boy, got him off certain foods. Some of them are obvious. The highly colored and sugared cereals and all that stuff. Guess what, in two weeks, the principal of the school tracked me down and said, “What did you put Billy on?” “Listen, I didn’t put him on anything.” I ran a test got him off crap and now he’s a better-behaved kid. Things like that to you and I Ashely, that’s just common sense but it’s not always common practiced. That’s why I love labs. They just get into the degree that finding is contributing to metabolic chaos is to a degree to choose full in reversing the metabolic chaos and creating order especially in that hormone, immune, digest, and detoxification and so on and those areas.


[01:43:50] Ashley James:  I love it. I’d love to know you mentioned earlier sometimes we’ll never find the root cause but we’ll be able to help the person. For example, my son who was having asthma, he’s so healthy and he eats so healthy and I’m thinking, “What’s going on?” We changed pediatricians. We went form, of course, naturopathic pediatricians. We changed pediatricians and the one we went to, the new one goes her first after being hospitalized twice for asthma. She goes, “Why don’t we do food testing?” That’s her first response like, “We should be testing him for allergies.” I’m like, “Wow. Thank you.” I brought it up with the first pediatrician and she was like, “Well, you know that’s down the road.” I’m like, “What is going on?” she started telling me that it’s normal for kids to be sick and to have asthma and it’s just like weird. It’s what some doctors will say and sure enough he’s allergic to 7 foods, garlic, fish, almost every single kind of fish like it will set him off. Eggs, avocado, things that we would eat every day. Like he would eat avocado, ate it every day, garlics and everything. A handful of other foods. Things that we also would avoid like Wheat, dairy and oats. He was allergic to and if he had any exposure to these food, he’d have asthma and dust mites. Dust mites are easy to manage but these like garlic is really hard. All of his food is made at home, cooked from scratch or I totally have to be diligent with looking at the ingredients but I’m wondering so now he doesn’t have any asthma by the way but if has any exposure, he starts to get a little wheezy and then we go, “Okay. Now we got to be diligent.” But that’s if there’s an early warning system. His body lets us know, he starts coughing he does a little bit of wheezing. We really make sure we vacuum twice a day. That kind of thing. Make sure that his food is 100% clean in case he accidentally ate something contaminated with eggs or with garlic. I’d love to know, what causes people to have these food allergies? Like you said, we may not ever get to that level of root cause but in your testing, do you see something that says like do you see that “Oh, here’s leaky gut, and that’s what causes.” Do you see that there is evidence for something even deeper than food sensitivities that causes them?



[01:46:25] Reed Davis: Yes. Again, there are inborn errors in metabolism. Their weak links in metabolism much of them are acquired but some are inborn and there’s this, you just have to use the word milieu of factors. That why I use the phrase metabolic chaos and the root cause exactly may not be known or discoverable. It’s too far upstream. There’s not a test. The test sometimes is getting off of food and seeing if you feel better. That’s a really good one.


[01:47:04] Ashley James: Yes, because there’s no side effects.


[01:47:07] Reed Davis: Yes and there’s no diagnosis in the food sensitivity. I coached football for 15 years. Youth football. And I can remember this is again, early on which made me so proud and know that I was hitting in the right direction. I didn’t have it all figured out. Same test, I have a kid, the mom always come up the boy “He can’t practice today on Wednesday.” I said, “Well, he’s not going to play Saturday then. You know if he doesn’t practice he won’t know the play. He had to sit out Saturday.” and she’s like, “Oh but he’s got asthma.” I said, “Well, what are you doing about that?” “Oh, he has an inhaler and he takes his inhaler.” “But we don’t allow those on the football field.” and I just “Did you ran him tested for food sensitivities or anything like that? This kid within a very short period of time never had asthma again. I still see that kid around time sometimes. Now he’s a big strapping grown man with no asthma. It was so miraculous she had her other kids tested. Like, “I want to test my whole family.” “Oh, yes. Maybe That’s a good idea.” There’s this ways to be it’s a mentality that I think we’ve covered pretty well here. Always looking for the hidden contributor to metabolic chaos and to the degree that the root causes are discoverable we can work on it. If it’s not discoverable if it’s just too hidden, we can still have an effect upon it, by getting what are the healing opportunities? What healing opportunities can we identify and my systems based on just years and years and years of observations. If you checked the hormones, immune system, digestion, detoxification pathways, energy production, which is I tell you about in a minute when we go to diet. Then of course again, this idea of autonomic balance. These six things that hidden stressors and dysfunctions are answering almost every case that comes in. Again, there are additional work to be done. Sometimes but they’re a little less common. So most people, all the common things that people complain about today that generally considered chronic degenerative diseases or conditions that’s our wheelhouse.


[01:49:39] Ashley James: I love that. And it’s such a big wheelhouse. Oh my gosh, pretty much the whole population can come see you and get results.


[01:49:49] Reed Davis: A guy’s called me up and he wanted to know if he should take the course. He’s a practitioner and he goes “I don’t know if I’ll find enough people to work on? Will it be enough people to work on? “ I said, “Where do you live?” He goes, “New Jersey.” I said. “No, there’s not enough sick people in New Jersey.” What a joke. There’s just you never going to ran out of customers. They’re going to pass by the way we have FDN practitioners spent the least amount in marketing because we get results and we all have referral-based practices. Too much long to talk at least about the D in the DRESS program and anything else you want. But diet is really one of the biggest questions. How many diets are there out there? A Hundred? A thousand? I don’t know. There’s no one of them that is right for every person. I guarantee you that there’s no one diet that’s right for everybody. What in the hell do you do?

By the way, this was something I spent a long time trying to overcome this question because I knew people had to go, you’re made of food how do I get people to eat right? I started off. It just happened to be the diet of the day in 1999 when I started this was Atkins diet. Everybody was on Atkins diet. Well, it’s making other people sick. Why is that? I want to know. This person does the Atkins and oh man, losing weight, feeling more energy and doing great. Another person’s like, “I got sick. I had no energy. I didn’t lose a single pound matter of fact, my skin flared up and I felt worse.” Why is that? Well, it’s because we’re all unique individuals with different, I’ll use this phrase here metabolic types. A metabolic type is simply, meeting your genetic requirements. We’re all from somewhere and if we all could go back, 500 generations which is a long time ago, you probably find your correct metabolic type and diet that goes along with it. If you’re Mediterranean, it makes sense. If you’re people today having the paleo diet which they think means eating more meat. Well, if you’re from the Anglo-Saxon, heritage eastern Europe and this kind of places where 500 generations ago, there was lots of hunting and gathering on and your people lived on deer and rabbits and muskox, mammoth or whatever. That’s just all about all they ate along with some local flora. Seasonal plant material and you ate just that and that was your heritage wasn’t mixed with any other heritage you probably would do pretty good from that. What if you’re from the island of Borneo. That diet would be horrible for you. There isn’t just one diet that is right for everyone but there is a way to discover it. There’s some principles involved in that way to eat that are really, really critical that I earned. I think it’s really important since I have the opportunity to share. There are things you need to know. You have macronutrients, protein, fats and carbohydrates. They’re the fuel that your cells burn for energy so that cell can do his job. The cells don’t have to be taught anything. They know what to do, they have innate intelligence, the same intelligence by the way that keeps the earth in alignment with the sun and the sun in alignment with the rest of the universe and everything like that. There is an innate intelligence that hangs everything together everything happening all at one time and you yourselves know that stuff. They know if their brain cells, muscle cell, adrenal gland cell of whatever. If you can fuel them properly which requires the right mixture of the macronutrients, the protein, fat, and carbohydrates.

You’ve heard of protein types and you’ve heard of Carb types and there are such things that people want to know, they’re called mix types. It had to do with the oxidative rate. The rate at which rate in quality and quantity of energy being produced on a cellular level. Energy is produced on a cellular level and it’s mostly dictated by the fat, carb and protein ratios. You can dial it in almost perfectly. There’d be some variations based on the time of the month. For women, seasonal variations for some people. Otherwise you can really dial in the correct fuel mixture for you because if it was just simple as either way your ancestors did 500 years ago, that was not available and guess what, people 12,000 years ago started roaming the world and we’re all just really interbred. These very few pure of this that or anything except of native tribes and they’ve been studied. A really big thing is protein, carb and fat ratios. Do you kind of fill me on that?



[01:55:23] Ashley James: Yes, absolutely. I’ve looked at that in terms of how to get better results for people and you would change the ratios if someone was an athlete and wanted to get a different performance versus a woman who wants to lose weight that’s less active for example. You can adjust and play with those ratios, the gram of carbohydrates, fats, and protein to make the fuel mixture that your body wants. If you’re a sports car or a little minivan. Your metabolic needs are you were saying and your genitive pre-disposition but also the quality of a carbohydrates matter. Quality of protein, whether the protein is from something highly processed like whey or meat versus a protein broccoli. Just different quality of proteins and all of the nutrients that come with that food. We need to take into account as well. We need to know the highest quality of the fuel right? And the ratios are really important. But I love that you’re talking about getting those ratios in a healthy mixture for the body and not being extremist with this 80% or 90% fat diet sort of 100% meat diets where the ratios are way out of balance. Maybe in a short term someone could get good results. Anyone can lose 10 pounds changing their diets. It kind of shock the body, shock the metabolism but it’s what you see in the long-term, and I like that you’re looking at subjective and objective by looking in at how the person is feeling in their own skin. And the labs. Because over time you’re going to track a diet and see if you’re getting the results you want or not.


[01:57:22] Reed Davis: Well, that’s really well put. Let’s take little bit step further with this energy produced in a cellular level based on the carb, fat, protein ratios. We’re going to assume automatically that you’re eating really good high-quality food. That your beef or whatever your meat is organic. That your fruits and vegetables are organic as you can get. Not that they have so much extra nutrition in those fruits and vegetables but at least you’re not getting the herbicide, pesticide, and rodenticides all the different. You want to keep poisons to a minimum. This is what people start to write down in terms of “how do I know if that’s the right fuel mixture for me?” Number one, you’re going to be satiated. You’re going to feel satisfied. Your meal will feel like the right kind of the meal. You can start with breakfast, you can start with lunch, any day of the week you want. Just try to measure about an hour and a half or even two hours later, if you had a reasonably sized meal. What is your satiation? It is the principle of satiety.

If you’re not fully satisfied, if something’s missing, if you’re craving something then we would want to adjust ratios a little bit. No, I’m not feeling satisfied, it’s missing something. That’s not satiation. Satiation becomes a really important factor. Again, every breakfast and hour and a half, 90 minutes later, check three things. One the satiety, satiation versus cravings and hunger or something. Assuming you had a real meal in that. The next thing is energy. You need really good high-quality strong energy from your food. If it’s fuel for the cells and they’re producing energy to do their job you should feel energized and energetic. You should have enough energy to do the work or play that you plan to do until the next meal comes along. Which in case, by the way, should you feel a little bit hungry before the next meal, your blood sugar could be checked and things like that. Satiation is one, should feel satisfied. An hour and a half, two hours later you should still feel good energy. I’m not talking about the kind that you get from coffee where you feel kind of nervous to even do something but you feel tired underneath. Not that kind of energy really strong solid good energy, the third thing, these are worth writing down if you’re going to try to adjust your carb protein and fat ratios. The next one is sense of well-being. Believe it or not. You should feel good. If you feel really grumpy for not reasons that a sign that your meal may need some tweaking in terms of protein. If you’re grumpy and someone just cut you off at traffic or got fight at work, that’s kind of okay but if everything’s going wrong why do I feel grumpy or irritated or one of these negative emotions. Lack of sense of well-being in anyway, those three things are really critical and that requires you a bit of self-aware and pay attention and maybe make some notes so the next day you can adjust the ratio. There’s a lot more to diet but that’s some really critical factors. Again, assuming your food is high quality you’re not eating crap out of bags or boxes all the time. You want to eat real food. There’s stuff that’s on the outside the grocery store. I mean on the edges. Stay out of the aisles.


[02:00:04] Ashley James: Right. Stay out of the aisles. Go shop around the perimeter of the grocery store absolutely. I love it. Very cool. There’s so much to this but you make it simple and it’s a delight learning from you and I’d love to have you back on the show. Because we just really scratched the surface, I’d love to have you back to dive in. I know my listeners are going to love today’s interview. I know they’ll love to have you back. I want to make sure that people know more about your course. I’m going to take your course. I’m really interested and I know my listeners are right there with me. For those who want to check out the course, they can go to learntruehealth.com/FDN like as in functional diagnostic nutrition. So learntruehealth.com/FDN. Of course, that link is going to be on the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. Tell us a bit about your course. I believe when they go to that link they’ll get a discount to your program. That’s what it says and I’d love for people to know a bit about the program. It’s self-paced. It’s my understanding. Because we’re all busy. It’s online it’s self-paced. Can you tell us a little bit about it?


[02:02:18] Reed Davis: Oh sure. It’s quite a robust course as I mentioned earlier in the program. I’ve interviewed every person that ever took it. It started as a 2-day workshop and that was 11 years ago July so long time ago. I’ve just expanded and expanded what more can I do? What can I do to make it better? And every person gets asked and I’ve had a lot of honest people who told me “What if you did this? What if you did that?” I take all of their advice and I reiterated the course. Now it’s a full-blown course and first of all obviously the labs, all the investigative processes. The hormone, immune, digestion, detoxification. I teached them the anatomy physiology and biochemistry. For those who already know some of those stuff. It’s a great review. For those who doesn’t know anything I speak in very plain language and teach you what you need to know. There’s no fluff or frills or fill in this course. It’s all practical stuff. I’ve been told by people with masters programs and program said this is the most practical thing I’ve ever done ever. Because it’s just nitty-gritty stuff, all the physiology and stuff for around the lab work. You truly understand what you are testing, what are the hormones and other markers and how to interpret them based on an individual where we focused is on the case studies and how this is an individual test results. It’s not to treat the paper. That’d be easy to teach. I can teach you that in 10 minutes.

This is again, a robust course to take so it’s about 6 months or more to get through. I’ve had people do it in less but they must’ve had nothing else to do. It’s all that. Then, of course, it’s going to be case studies and interpretation. Working with individuals and yourself. You’re going to run those labs on yourself. I pay for two of them and as part of the course, I’m paying your way some of that internal investigation on you. You could take it just for your own health if you want to. That alone would be worth the price of admission. I’ll teach you all that and then I teach you all the protocols. The D-R-E-S-S program. We just ran into diet a fraction of what you might want to know. It’s how to get the right diet for each individual and the rest program and I teach a lot about sleep that’s really important and about the exercise. You just said some people are like drag racers others were like Volkswagens. The same there is no one exercise program that works perfect for everybody. You’ve got to know some things.

You might not be a personal trainer actually put them through these things. You actually teach your client or yourself the right way to figure it out. The diet, the rest, the exercise, the stress reductions is one of the biggest modules because there’s so much varieties and the types of stressors were affected by. Some of then I go back to my early days of the environmental work I used to do and what’s in the environment, other parts where food sensitivities other part that showed the things around your house. As a matter of fact, for people who just want to taste of how to deal with that area in their life, go to environmentalworkinggroup.com. It might be .org, environmentalworkinggroup. We get a lot of stuff about the environmental toxins and pollutants for them. So it’s diet, rest, exercise, stress, reduction. How to asses an individual in various stressors and there of course supplements. I don’t own my own line which I think is to my credit because I know I’m leaving a lot of money on the table not having my own line but I just have avoided that but in all about supplements I teach you what you need to know to support the body, to stimulate the immune system, to substitute what’s missing from food. For god’s sake. These antioxidants and essential fatty acids that we talked about the vitamins and minerals. That’s really important stuff. It’s now all the lab work and assessment and how to work with individuals and yourself. It all the DRESS protocol. What fixes everything? How do you fix every cell tissue system in the body at once? That’s the DRESS modules and then, of course, there’s the business modules like how to do this for a living. How to work with people? How to intake? How to make sure you’re working with a client is going to be successful? Guess what? Don’t let them hire you. I teach you actually how to select people who are going to be successful and make a good living doing this, doing the good in the world that all of us want to do.


[02:07:03] Ashley James: I love it. It sounds amazing. I took the IIN course. I really appreciate it because its focus is on the emotional mental health of doing health coaching. Of course, you learn the dietary theories of a hundred different diets but you don’t learn labs you don’t learn supplements you don’t learn nutrition. I’ve been mentored by Naturopaths for the last 8 years. so I’ve learned a great big deal about nutrition and supplements but what I loved about IIN’s course is a lot of it is the emotional mental work. I see that someone who’s graduated from IIN as a health coach would love to take your program because like you said there’s no fluff it’s a hundred percent everything you want to learn to then go out and work with clients. People who have never worked with clients could take your course and do a great job and people who do currently work with clients like IIN graduates. It would complement their continued education so well. I think it’s a wonderful complement. I’m very excited to take your program. Thinking about the cost of your program and thinking about the cost of seeing a functional medicine practitioner, for example, it’s about the same.

To see someone for six months or a year to work on a problem I could pay someone else. I could find local practitioner maybe graduate for your course and I could pay them and do the testing and pay them to look at it and asses me and help me figure out what I want to do. Or I could pay to take your course to learn it myself to do the work on me and be about the same amount of money but I would have that skill set for the rest of myself to continue helping myself for the rest of my life. You know some people are just at a point where maybe they don’t have mental clarity. I remember when I was very sick with chronic adrenal fatigue. I did not have the capacity to take a course. I was just at that point, where I just wanted someone to help me and maybe people they just want to find a practitioner that’s taking your course and go and work with them. For those who want to sort of be taught how to fish instead of just be given a fish, they have that skill set for the rest of their life then taking your courses is absolutely amazing because in the long run it’s going to save them so much money years to come they can apply these lessons then their selves and their family and loved ones. Then have that background potentially doing that as a career and adding that to their repertoire. Wonderful. I love it. Is it audio? Video? Tell us a little bit about the format of experiencing your course?


[02:09:55] Reed Davis: Well, it’s online for the most part but here are quite a number of head to heads, one on ones with mentors. Some of my best students that’s how I’m grown by the way from the original two-day workshop at 19 people, we now have close to 3,000 that we’ve trained. The course reiterated over and over again. The latest in relation is quite remarkable if I do say so myself. So you’re going to watch the lessons, you can download them to your computer though so you don’t have to be online. You could watch them on a bus or on a plane as long as you’re on your computer. There’s turnouts I have a I think a 180 different forms I give you including the legal documents and onboarding things. Ways to complete the assessment, develop the DRESS program and apply it to a person. The coaching method. You mentioned IIN which is a good school and just every other health coaching program or institute whatever it might be out there. There’s tons of now. I remember there was two or three so we’re one of the earliest been around the longest but there’s some good ones out there but I would consider them to be if they were a bachelor’s program, we would be the master’s program. We are the next level but I break it down in such a way and again I said there’s such a thorough for those who did know a few things it will be a great review for others who hadn’t been exposed you’d be good for everybody.

The only prerequisites are that you want to help yourself and others. You’re willing to walk the talk. If you want to help people and you want to walk the talk set an example, it’s an amazing opportunity to learn. If you only work for yourself and your family, it’ll be worth the price of admission. The fact that you could turn around and recoup your investment in a very, very short period of time if you follow my business model, it’s pretty remarkable and last but not the least, it’s a community now. It took on a life of its own years ago. Even the first-class there’s some alumni that still are they’re still doing things. The alumni group which I formed, officially we have an official alumni group we started two and half years ago. There’s hundreds of members. These are people who do this seriously for a living. Like we have convention every year now where we hang out and share. It’s really remarkable. I’ve been told by some of my mastermind people don’t start a tribe and not lead it. I’m here for the rest of my life to lead the charge. In my way just like Ashley is in her way, we all know what the goal is. It’s for health and wellness and happiness of the planet. If you go back to that quote from Thomas Edison, doctors aren’t getting there. They’re not evolving. As a matter of fact, many are getting more interested than just diagnose treat model. We have to present something to go side by side with that. The people really want that really get somewhere they want to go.


[02:13:10] Ashley James: I love it. I’m so excited. My listeners love reaching out to me and telling me how it goes for them especially when they become a health coach. Several have become health coaches as a result of listening to my show and hearing my journey through IIN. I’ve had three people email me saying that they were going to become MDs and they quit med school and they became Naturopaths instead. Because of my shows, they found their true calling. Which is so cool that people are finding their true calling through listening. I’m really looking forward to hearing in the coming weeks and months from my listeners who take your program. Go to learntruehealth.com/FDN and take your program and then have an amazing experience and then they’ll reach out to me and say, “This is how it affect my life. Thank you.” I love that they let me know how it went for them. I’m really looking forward to hearing the stories because your program is results-based and it’s all about results. It’s why you do all the labs. So that you could move the needle. So you can get results. It’s not just so you can prescribe a drug. Right?


[02:14:25] Reed Davis: Exactly. Yes, and the community is amazing it is what made us what we would call today group sourced. If your feedback from people is, “Well, that was great. What if you do this, what if you do that.” You actually have people listening including me. Where else can we take this? There’s new technology come on board all the time too. There’re new labs, new parts, new things that we can play with like the big thing today is wearables. The wrist bands and the rings and different things. There’s always something new that fits right in that I can’t be the eyes and the all-seeing. It takes a group to do something like this. To make it a true movement. I hope we get some great feedback even great ideas. That’s even better.


[02:15:16] Ashley James: I love it. Wonderful. My listeners have always been so impressed by them that they are a people that take action. They’re action-oriented people so I’m looking forward to you hearing the wonderful feedback as am I. definitely listeners go to learntruehealth.com/FDN to look into it. See more information and see if it’s right for you. I’m really excited to take your course as well and you know, wouldn’t it be wonderful if a hundred percent of the population knew this information? Could you imagine a world where everyone knew the labs that they could take to better themselves? If everyone knew like, “Wow. I have this symptom maybe I need to look at this direction” How self-sufficient would we be? It’s a big threat to the companies that don’t want us to be self-sufficient.


[02:16:17] Reed Davis: Yes, I think it’s called empowerment but it comes with self-awareness first and having a space in your own head or being to be at peace. You’ve got to know what that looks like and set goals for yourself. That’s what health coaches supported to do but it has to being with us. Again, the pre-requisites are you want to help others and you be willing to walk the talk. We are pretty self regroup, pretty high level of consciousness among most. We make money but we’re not in it for the money. It’s just so rewarding.


[02:16:58] Ashley James: Wonderful. Excellent. Thank you so much for coming into the show. Please come back. I’d love to dive deeper. There’s so many topics that you have to teach and I’d love to dive deeper. It’s been wonderful having you on the show.


[02:17:09] Reed Davis: Perfect. Thanks, Ashley. Happy to be here. Glad to come back anytime.


Get Connected With Reed Davis!

Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Website




Join the Learn True Health Community & Support Us on Patreon

Order High-Quality Supplements

Join Our Facebook Community Group

Visit Our YouTube Channel

Eric Thorton And Ashley James



  • Properly letting go of the physicalness of a soul.
  • Ashley shares her healing session with Eric.
  • Possession and exorcisms in the real world.
  • Negative thought forms and energies.
  • The addiction to oil and meat


In this episode, Eric Thorton talks about how the remains of our departed loved ones affect our overall health, and how to properly dispose their physical memories. He will also discuss negative thought forms, possession, and exorcism. Ashley also describes her amazing healing session with Eric and how she overcomes her “self-talk” that’s fighting her will to be on a healthy track.



Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. You’re in for a big treat. Eric Thornton is coming back on the show today. I’ve interviewed him several times, if you want to listen to the interviews I did with him before, you can go to www.learntruehealth.com and search Eric Thorton in the search bar for the past episodes. He is a spiritual healer. And when I set out to start the podcast Learn True Health I knew that health was not just physical, that it was emotional, mental, spiritual, and energetic. So we have to address all aspects of life. Now, I thought when I first started interviewing Eric, that it might be too out there, like I might turn people off because it was, you know, we’re talking about stuff that’s not in the mainstream. We’re talking about spirituality and energy healing and stuff that some people might… I don’t know, I was afraid that it wouldn’t land well, and boy, did I have nothing to worry about. I have had a flood of listeners tell me that their favorite interviews of all 300 plus interviews has been the ones with Eric Thorton. I’ve had listeners right in our Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group to tell me that Eric Thorton’s interviews change their life, completely shifted their entire world, has helped them to understand their life and the problems that they’re facing in a whole new way. So as I kept getting this wonderful feedback from you, I was encouraged to keep having Eric on the show. And I’m really glad that he’s being well received. Because what I’ve learned from him has made a big difference in my life. And today in this interview, you’re going to hear my experience of my first session working with him in which he helped me to resolve a major life issue that I had since I was nine that it was running my life. And so you get to hear about my session.



[2:16] Ashley James: I am very thankful that I have this platform. I built this platform to share this with you, to provide a way for you to have access to healers, like Eric. So in one episode, you’re going to hear from a doctor on how to reverse diabetes. And in another episode, you’ll hear about how to balance hormones and another you might hear about how to lower stress or increase sleep. And then in this one you’re going to hear about how to protect yourself energetically, how to rid yourself of energies that are unwanted, what to do with the remains of loved ones, and why we should do certain things with ashes or with burials to support our overall health; emotionally, mentally and spiritually. So we get into some pretty interesting topics today. And we also get into some physical healing around diet and nutrition. And so it’s all just great stories. Just know that you’re going to get a variety of topics when you listen to the Learn True Health podcast. I urge you to join the Facebook group. If you haven’t already, please come and join the Learn True Health Facebook group just search Learn True Health in Facebook. Because every week we’re doing giveaways, we’re answering health questions, listeners love communicating with each other in the community. And it’s been such a positive experience to hear from all the listeners and sharing their stories and their healing journeys, and asking questions and learning from each other. So come learn from the entire Learn True Health community by joining the Learn True Health Facebook group. As I was editing today’s show to post it, I got a little hungry, and I snapped on my favorite snack. And I want to tell you that if you haven’t tried EnergyBits yet, you’re missing out and you’ve got to get some. I interviewed Catharine Arnston several times, I believe it’s four times I’ve had her on the show now. She’s an expert in algae. And it’s amazing. It’s a crop. So you can’t really call it a supplement. But it’s these little M&M sized tablets that you chew. And actually it does taste quite good. Other brands don’t taste good. But her brand does taste good. And I chewed and as I was chewing on them, I thought I gotta make sure that you guys know, if you haven’t already listened to the interviews with Catharine Arnston or learned about Energy Bits, you definitely need to know about them, you can go to www.energybits.com and use the coupon code LTH to get 20% off. Buy a bag of EnergyBits, they deliver an amazing amount of pure protein that your body readily absorbs. So within minutes of chewing them and swallowing, you get a boost of energy and there’s no caffeine, it’s just you’re getting an energy source, it’s pure. So get some Energy Bits, which are the spirulina or the Recovery Bits, which are the chlorella and Recovery Bits are the ones that will actually detox the body in heavy metals. So listen to the episodes with Catharine Arnston and go to www.learntruehealth.com, type in algae in the search bar, or you can type in EnergyBits in the search bar. And listen to those past interviews if you haven’t already, and try some Energy Bits and some Recovery Bits for yourself. Because they’re amazing. I eat them every day. Listeners in the Facebook group are posting, if you follow in our Facebook group, you’ll see listeners say “I love them and I eat them every day.” And it makes such a big difference. So many people are saying that in the Facebook group, I thought you know, if you haven’t joined the Facebook group yet, you might not have seen that our community is saying how much they just love EnergyBits and the Recovery Bits, and that they do notice a difference. So give them a try. They’re fantastic snack that will totally take away your hunger and increase your energy and also provide you with minerals and vitamins and detox your body. So many good things. And when you go to www.energybits.com, be sure to use the listener coupon code LTH that gives you 20% off and you can use it every time you place an order. That’s LTH coupon code for 20% off at www.energybits.com. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this information with your friends and family. Please come join the Learn True Health Facebook group and be part of our community. I can’t wait to meet you there. Have yourself a fantastic rest your day and enjoy today’s interview.


[7:07] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health Podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is Episode 375.


We’re back here with Eric Thorton and not much time has passed for the listeners. Because I just recently published our last interview. But for me, a lot of things have happened because I had my session with you.



[7:37] Eric Thorton: It was good.



[7:39 ] Ashley James: And we’re going to talk a bit about that. And we’re going to talk about a few other really interesting topics. So for those who’ve never heard Eric, I definitely encourage you to go back and listen to the other episodes where we were discussing karma and spiritual health and how that all of this cultivating spiritual health cascades into developing physical health and mental health and emotional health. And so we’ve covered that over a period of several interviews. And I’ve gotten great feedback from a lot of listeners saying they love learning from you. I’ve had a few listeners say it’s been a life changing, hearing what you’ve said, really helped make their lives make sense. And so we’re just going to continue to have Eric on as we dive deeper into the spiritual topics. And hopefully everyone can find more clarity and the answers that they’re looking for. Because as we go to heal our body physically, many listeners have physical ailments, we need to look at emotional health, mental health, spiritual health, energetic health, and how every aspect of our life contributes to either physically being ill, or physically being well, and building ourselves back up. And so that’s what we do with Eric, when we come and learn more about the spiritual realm. So welcome back.



[9:03] Eric Thorton: Thank you. The spiritual realm, well I’m happy to do this, because my purpose in life is to teach people about the soul and how it affects us energetically, mentally, physically, etc. And that’s my goal in life. So whatever people can gain from it maybe can offer a little bit of non biased, maybe a little bit of non bias because I’m not against religion, but I don’t promote it. I’m not against the New Age, but I don’t promote it. I’m stuck and I’m caught in a bridge between the two. And it’s very grounding. And we try to make it logic, we try to make it understandable instead of a mystery in the work we do. And that’s why people, it often change their life, because it’s like, “Oh, that’s what that means.” So if you’re a religious person, we can actually help you, if you love that, help you have a better walk with your religion. And if you’re not, we hope you have a better life, a better walk has non religious. So there’s no judgment here in that respect. So everything we do, everything I say to people is to help explain who they are, what they are, why they’re here, how it’s affecting their body, what that’s all for. And we look at everything that happens to the body, to the soul, everything to look as the learning experience. Because the education of the soul is the purpose of life, the soul bears repeating, the soul can’t taste a strawberry, it can’t be male or female. Yeah, those are animal things. And it comes here to experience, it comes to the human – ours type sold us to a human body to experience these things. And to gain that compassion from having to have to go through the processes that we as our animal goes through, over time it gives you a god like compassion and love for all species. It’s like you got an older soul person, they’re going to love animals, they may not own a half a lot of them, they still love them, or someone who’s younger, so they can eat them, you know, and abuse them on the way. Someone that’s in between maybe wants them taken care of better before they eat them. It’s not wrong to eat them. It’s just how we deal with it, that’s wrong. But anyway, the purpose why I’m doing this is just to help people get a different perspective, that maybe make sense for them. And then the healing sessions are to help people heal such as yourself, of things that drive us in a way that we don’t understand, because the medicine men and women are not part of our lives anymore. So like with your healing session, you know, things changed for you. And they of course let you talk about that. But this is common. Things change at this different level and it relieves stress. And just by relieving stress changes how the body deals with life. And if a person is being compelled by something, causing them a tremendous amount of stress, their body can’t cleanse itself. Their body can’t repair itself well, it changes your immune system, it changes your biochemical function. And if you can just relieve the stressor, things start to change all on their own. So as you’ll see my website it says I’m an exorcist. I am. Exorcist means energy removal. It implies all these drama from TV and movies. But there can be a little drama. But most the time it’s not, if you do it with full sight, full hearing and full knowledge. Because then there’s no argument, there’s no guessing. It’s just there you see it, you experience it, you can remove it. So anyway, that’s why I like doing this, is to help get that out. So tell me about your experience.



[13:16] Ashley James: Well, yeah. Before I do, I want clarification for you. You said newer souls will just eat meat and might abuse animals, medium souls start to think what is humane treatment for animals and then old souls, souls that have had more experience in incarnations – they want to become vegetarian or vegan, they want animals treated properly, and they don’t want to kill them for sustenance. But then you said it’s not wrong to eat animals. Can you elaborate on that? I know we talked about this in a different context, but this idea of creating that wrongness or that guilt, right? To have people feel a sense of wrongness or guilt. Can you just explain why and I know you’re a vegetarian yourself, but can you explain why it isn’t negative to eat animals as you were pointing out?



[14:21] Eric Thorton: Well, energetically, it’s not negative to eat the animal, if everything has a proper balance. So if we’re going out, and let’s say a hunter wants to get some meat. If he goes out, and he or she goes out and kills an animal properly, doesn’t use a bow and arrow where they run around for 10 hours or two or three days dying, they shoot them, they’d shoot them properly. The animal is biochemically in better condition for eating because it doesn’t have all that adrenaline and all that other stuff going on. But you’ve honored the animal by taking its life swiftly. And animals are a lower species and all lower species on every planet in the universe are subject to being used by the higher species in many different ways. You know, we unfortunately use elephants for example for many different purposes. I don’t know if people eat them or not. But I would expect if they were desperate enough. So we use them in many ways. And it’s fine if you’re honoring the animal. If you’re abusing the animal in any way shape or form, it changes them biochemically. But it also changes the way you digest them, the way you use them. Now meat itself, as we get older, our bodies can’t tolerate it because it acidifies the body. Not going to go into that whole thing right now. But it does as everybody knows, when your body gets acid, you can grow things that you don’t want to grow, called cancer. And if you keep your pH higher, you will not grow as many cancers. And I’m sure you’ve had people on talking about pH because that’s a very important part of physical health. And so as we age, we can’t tolerate meat well because of that factor takes a long time to digest, and it puts acid in our system. That being said, if you have an abused animal, it tastes different. It digests completely different. My family are a bunch of sensitive. So I mentioned in this episode we had with chicken that we got that was organic from Whole Foods. I bought two chickens. And we were eating meat then. And some of my kids telling me and I don’t have a problem with it. It’s just not okay for me anymore because of my age. But these chickens were organic, free range, everything you can possibly do to be the most natural it can be from a supermarket. And I just cooked it up their favorite way and served it. And literally, the kids were pushing it around the plate. And they always love to eat it before. They were just kind of pushing it around the plate. And then I took a leg and the leg was broken. So I looked at the other leg, the leg was broken. So that my kids were picking up on that abuse. And I had not blessed the animal for giving it life. Its life for our sustenance, I hadn’t taken away in the prayer is supposed to, in your intention with an animal in your intention or prayer, you thank it, by thanking it you’re removing the drama, the drama and the trauma. And so it comes in more neutrally. Most people don’t even think of doing that. And so I thought well, this is a good experiment, because I had another chicken from the same batch. So we literally threw away the chicken, we couldn’t eat it. One bite my stomach’s turned because we’re sensitive to that type of abuse. And so in the garbage it went two weeks later, I took out the other chicken that had been frozen, so it wasn’t as good. As far as you know, when you freeze me it’s not as good as when it’s fresh. And I cooked it up the exact same way. Blessed it remove the trauma and the drama. They ate it like they didn’t even think about it and both legs were still broken. So the circumstance of the death of the animal is huge in the way we process it and digest it. Whether we’re sensitive to it or not, it still is happening. It’s all energy. So if you have all that negativity, you know, you watch the Cowspiracy, why do they even do this to the animals? You know, I’m watching them lock the tail off of an animal before it goes in to get shot. It has to stand there while they lock the tail off and it screams, you’re getting in all of that from the food. And plants, don’t get me wrong plants have life. But they don’t have suffering. That’s a mammal, an animal thing. Plants – they die, yes, but they don’t have suffering. So people say, well I eat plants because well there’s no soul. No, there are souls in plants, but they don’t have the nerves and the suffering. And so when you pick a plant, the soul leaves. It’s like if I cut down a tree, I asked the soul to leave before we cut down the tree and it goes okay, and it goes into seedling or something, the energy of that life force. It doesn’t have a problem. And so when you’re eating a plant, you don’t have the drama and the trauma period. It’s not there. And while you eat the animal it can. And that is a problem for the human body. So it damaged me. So now I don’t eat it. But I’m not a vegan extremist. It’s what a body needs. And ultimately, as we age, we all need to alkaline our bodies, period. And that’s the best way to do it, is to eliminate your meat.


[20:45] Ashley James: Can you see souls like when you said you cut down a tree or you pick the plants, can you see the soul leave or if you’ve watched an animal die, or a human dies, you see souls leave?



[20:57 ] Eric Thorton: Yes, I do. For example, when you talk to trees, you hear people talking to trees, you’re talking to their monad – the sum total of all their knowledge, of all of that species of knowledge. So when it leaves it’s quite dramatic. When that soul leaves I see it, there’s a tint change. And the tree will sit there and start to look unhealthy immediately. And like when you pick a flower, it takes so long for it to wither. Well, trees are the same thing. And it still has the evaporation happening pulling water from the earth, evaporation happening in the leaves. So you get the, I forgot what it’s called.



[21:45] Ashley James: The photosynthesis?



[21:49] Eric Thorton: No. Photosynthesis is the end result. But there’s a pull, the water evaporates from the leaf, it pulls the water from the ground. So that’s still going on. But there’s no life force to create photosynthesis. So it immediately gets a slightly dull look to it, to me, because I see that that life force is gone. The spark is gone. And then within a few weeks, it starts looking [Inaudible 22:12] anybody can see. Yeah, we see the souls of trees and everything else. So it’s like I have fish tanks in my office with the fish tank. And when the fish die, if I’m around, I see the soul from the fish go running around my house, I go up to the fish dead zone and one of the tanks, I have to go fish it out.



[22:37] Ashley James: You’ve seen a soul of one of your fish swimming around your house. And that’s what prompts you to go find the floating fish in one of your tanks?



[22:46] Eric Thorton: If I was home when it died, I would see that before it left. You know a fish soul isn’t to come back and visit like a dog, but a fish it’ll just whirl around the house for a while and off it goes. So if I’m home, I will see it, a little light that I see floating around the house. And it’s like, oh, when I go which tank is it to the guides and this one now sure enough, I go find the dead fish. But if I’m not home, because it’s not a soul that repeats that visit, I don’t know. And then I have to find the dead fish like anybody else. There it is. There it is. There it is floating. You know.



[23:27] Ashley James: I think conceptually always believes in a soul until I held my mother’s hand when she died. And then I got to actually experience her soul move through me and fill the room. And that was like, that was just there’s no there’s no question in my mind. Because I felt it. It was very real.



[23:53] Eric Thorton: It is very real. It’s like they proved there’s the whole song about it and the stuff that there’s actually weight to a soul. They proved it back in the 30s or 20s or something like that. But it’s amazing how science doesn’t want to repeat that experiment.



[24:09] Ashley James: It could be someone while they die.



[24:12] Eric Thorton: Well, it’s easy to do. But now we got better skills than they have in 1920. So they could actually get that it’s 1/200th of an ounce or something like that to change and you think they would get heavier when you die. Because the centrifugal force of the blood being pushed around your body would give a little bit lighter lift with each heartbeat. But they don’t. And it’s so much of a percent of an ounce or whatever it is to get lighter. They get wider. Yeah because it’s measurable. And nobody wants to do the experiment now. Because, well, I don’t know why. I actually don’t. I think it’d be very interesting to prove that there is something that leaves, but science doesn’t believe that. I guess that’s why they don’t do it.



[24:57] Ashley James: Well, they can’t make a drug, so why would they be putting all that money into that kind of research? There’s not there’s not a drug they can patent.



[25:04] Eric Thorton: Yeah, but not a lot of money in that. But science eventually, always proves out spiritual healing and spirituality. It’s like Einstein, he theorized that the earth is in a time wave. I forget the exact words right now. Well, they proved it two years ago. You know, they have such sensitive experiences now that they put this little box that picks up, I read about it, you can read about it online, in the NASA journals, but I forget what it’s all called. But there’s this box that can measure magnetic pole. And they put it up on one of the satellites and it measured magnetic pole around the earth in all these different places. And they showed that we were in a time warp. That’s what Einstein call it. And it proved that we’re in a time warp. And that’s what time does, science proves out these things. You can’t see it, but it’s still there. So science needs to go on, in my opinion. Well, there is a soul there, it keeps us alive. Well, let’s learn to work with that. But no, they go, “Nope, don’t want to go there.” And they have to go eventually. Because that’s what science is.



[26:24] Ashley James: You reminded me of a study that I read recently that blew my mind; the power of prayer, and those who are atheists or not. I mean everyone who listens to the show all come from different backgrounds. So for some people the idea of prayer is very foreign. Our four year old the other day I talked to him about prayer. And he goes, “I don’t know how.” Well, it’s something we learn how to do. But prayer doesn’t have to be religious, it can be spiritual. But they did these experiments where they had a group of people praying for and, again not a religious, one specific religion, but just the idea of closing your eyes and sending an intention and asking for goodness to happen to someone. And they did this for people in a hospital. And they found that those who were prayed for got better faster, and had a higher survival rate than those who weren’t prayed for. And that’s like you said.



[27:26] Eric Thorton: And it is very consistent. It’s absolutely consistent. I mean it’s 100% of the people that would be experimented with, they may not build a measure at all on every person, but something will be changing them. Biblically, if you’re using the Bible, it’s called the gift of petition. And some people have a little more of it than others. But that means when you ask, it will be considered. It’s not the gift of command, but the gift of petition, it’s called. It’s amazing what our intentions do. It slips right into one of the subjects we’re talking about today – ashes.



[28:13] Ashley James: I definitely want to get into that. Do you want to talk about that first, then we’ll talk about my experience working with you?



[28:19] Eric Thorton: Okay. So the intention, when the power of petition works all the way to the point of death, and after death. It’s not just when you’re alive. So you have someone who’s, let’s just talk about death for a moment. It’s kind of the first starting of that. When you die, the soul that can be weighed leaves the body, it’s a freeing that occurs. People, if they’re aware of spiritual growth, they actually celebrate when they leave the body. Because it’s like a huge relief of pressure on the soul. That being said, when you’re dying, people can hold you back. You hear all these stories about people dying in the hospital when everyone goes and gets a cup of coffee? Because their intention, “Oh, poor. Oh, no. We don’t want him to die. No, and we have to be here for them.” You’re holding on to that soul with that intention. And so everybody leaves, gets distracted by the sniff of coffee and then they escape. Well, it doesn’t end there. We have these things, we have to dispose of the body. And throughout history, if you look at all the cultures, the cultures cremate, bury, things like that. They all have developed celebrations of death at some point to let them go. Well, today we have the technology to keep them. We keep the ashes, we want to do the right thing with them, we want this, that and the other. But when you leave the body correctly, the soul doesn’t care anymore, what happens with the ashes. It’s our ego that wants to hang on to them because we love our loved ones, we we adore them, we don’t want to let their memory go. But when you hold on to the ashes, you’re actually preventing – what I have noticed it’s been my experience, is you’re preventing the astral body, which is partly ego from fading, and the etheric body moving on between the into the life between lives. So when I touch somebody’s ashes, someone brings them to me. It’s as if the person that has died is standing right in front of me. And they’re still based on their thought process, if you will, is still based on ego. So they’re still concerned about family and the specifics. And like money, health, on and on and on where if we move forward correctly and the astral body has died, or faded, and the etheric bodies in the life between lives, we call those the ancestors. And they’re here to wish you good will, love, all the experience possible so you can grow spiritually, little care about your body’s pain and suffering anymore. But the astral body still does. And so when someone I’ve noticed, and it’s happened hundreds of times, to me, is it’s not just a one time incident, when I touch the ashes or the container, it’s like there they are as if they’d never died. And they know they’re dead, but they’re still hooked on the ego, because they haven’t been able to be let go of yet. So the act of burying the ashes, scattering the ashes, you are mentally letting go of that contract with your loved ones. And that includes pets. And when you do that, it is the end of that connection to the physicalness of that person. And it enhances the connection to the soul of that person. The etheric body is a much more delightful thing to have around us. Our ancestors are grand, and have the best intention for us. But they can’t get there unless we let go. And so I’ve shared that with a lot of people. And when they have let go of them, they feel better. They feel it’s complete. And that’s why throughout the world, we have all societies who never talk to each other at all do these burial rites, some like this, some bury, some mummify, but they put it in another place and they let go of it. Because that’s a universal knowing of all people feel that. It’s like when your mom died, you felt her soul leaving. Well, if you’re holding on to it, that still can’t leave all the way. So then when you finally do it, let go and it’s like you feel clean. So I don’t agree with saving ashes for any length of time. You know, if you take a month, or two, or three or five, or whatever to do what you want to do with the ashes to fulfill the person last wishes, terrific. And then we’ve got to move on. And then it helps the whole family because they become ancestors position to everybody in the family. And that includes people we don’t even know, part of the extended family that we don’t even know that they get to help. So it helps heal. You might look at it in a small way, it helps heal the planet when we bury people or dispersed them and let go of them correctly. But I highly recommend it to everybody.


[33:43] Ashley James: Well, the reason why we bring this up is that I have my parents’ ashes and the ashes of my second cat who lived to be 20. So we have those. Yeah, Muffins was awesome. And then we talked a little bit about that before I read your article on your website, www.ericthorton.com. And I thought it’d be really interesting to talk about this, because so many people save the ashes, their loved ones ashes as I have. And also now they do things like make jewelry out of them, there’s companies that turn ashes into diamonds, you know, like a diamond looking objects, turn them into jewelry to wear, put the ashes in some kind of glass and you can wear the ashes. And so by holding on, you’re saying there’s something going on with your physical energy that’s being affected, and your loved ones soul can’t go move on completely, because you’re holding them here.



[34:54] Eric Thorton: Right.



[34:55] Ashley James: So what kind of physical ailments had your clients resolve by letting go of ashes?



[35:05] Eric Thorton: It’s stress and freedom. When someone passes properly, we are sad that they’ve passed. But there’s also if they’ve passed properly and moved over, there’s a freedom now that exists that people almost feel guilty about. We don’t have mom’s requirements anymore, or grandpa’s requirements anymore. When you hold on to that, you’re actually holding on to those requirements energetically. And so you can’t develop who you were supposed to be after they have passed. There’s that we become orphans, it’s normal. And then the rules aren’t there anymore. We get to fully develop our own. So that alone changes your life. And it relieves stress, because you don’t have their requirements. Everybody, we all have narcissism. So we set these requirements up for our children to learn how to be adults. And they feel that all the way through adulthood just like I do I hear my inner parental voice and when they die, that changes. When my father died, my father wasn’t a good man. He was a bully, not going to get into all that. But when he died it was a relief. When his father died, who was a very good man, lovely father to me, it was also a relief. different type of relief, but it still occurred. Because again, the requirements that I had to have for those people, related to those people is now gone. But you hang on to those ashes, you’re going to keep mourning those requirements. You’re going to keep thinking about it. You’re going to keep engaging those requirements. And yes, when we let go, we miss a part of them. But it also frees us physically and energetically. I have a kind of an anecdotal about this, it was an animal. I was working with another practitioner, we were doubling up on clients for a couple years. And her name was Laura Smith, I think she’s in Montana now. This lady comes in and she is completely distraught. Her animals have been dying, and her life was just miserable. And we both got into her energy, started doing the energy work. We kept hearing, it’s cold, it’s dark, and I can’t get out. And we’re like going… We both hearing this second hearing. It’s cold, it’s dark, I can’t get out, it’s cold, it’s dark, I can’t get out, and it kept repeating to us. And we’re looking at each other because we’re know we’re reading the same thing. And we’re like, what is cold and dark and can’t get out. And the lady goes, “Oh, I put my dog in the freezer, I want you to bring them back to life.” The soul was stuck in the freezer.



[38:26] Ashley James: I’m gobsmacked right now.



[38:29] Eric Thorton: We were totally like, you know, just totally use your word gobsmacked. It took us a minute to recover. It was like, she put… But that’s the truth. She was hanging on to that. And because she was in a very abusive situation, etc. Many extenuating circumstances so she really clung to our animals for support. And that soul was not going anywhere. And it was this. It’s cold, it’s dark, I can’t get out. You know, it had no idea what a freezer was, because it was an animal. But it was cold and dark and couldn’t get out. So we encouraged her to bury the animal that we assured her we couldn’t bring her back to life because we were trying to appeal to herself and she was having psychotic problems. We said because you had frostbite. It’s like, “Okay, so we need to bury this, and we need to let this animal go.” And when she went through that she felt better.



[39:34] Ashley James: I can see that.



[39:35] Eric Thorton: That was a poignant moment for me in understanding about hanging on, and about ashes hanging on to any of these things. And that’s why all these rituals have been created throughout the planet independently. Because we’ve got to let go to let the soul go.



[39:56] Ashley James: One thing, I can’t remember whether you said it while we were recording, but you said it to me earlier about, because you’ve touched vessels that are holding ashes about many times, and you’ve never met a soul who was like, “I’m totally content and happy here. And I want to stay attached to the plane.” You’re saying, every time you touch a vessel, like an urn that’s holding someone’s ashes, the soul pops right in front of you and they’re agitated about their situation, because they’re being held here.



[40:31] Eric Thorton: Yes. And that includes anything made out of them. I was watching on Antiques Roadshow, Queen Victoria gave special gifts of little boxes with bits of her hair in it while she was alive. Well, they’re floating around you know, it’s a prize to have something like this from Queen Victoria. It’s like, well, I could connect to her instantly, if I touch that hair, or touch the locket that it was in. And it’s because energetically, you have the most familiar object in the last life that person live. You have the molecules of that, which is burnt or pieces of the body. And so it’s a direct connection to that soul. And if you’re hanging on, which is for holding on to the ashes and things like that, that soul is stuck, it can’t move on. That’s been my experience, and it’s been consistent for all the years of my whole life doing this. And I mean I don’t know everything, but it is consistent and it is current information. There was one guy who brought me the ashes of his wife. He had a little vials of them and he did give them to people.



[41:53] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.



[41:54] Eric Thorton: And I’m like going, “Can you get those back?” Because he put it in my hand and it’s like, she’s right there going, “Well, you need to date people. You need to do this, you need to get you know, you’re not bouncing your bank account, right.” And he had to do this and this and this. And she’s telling me about his day to day routine of his life. And I’m like, “Well, that’s true.” He’s like, explained to me that everything she’s saying is exactly right. And he hasn’t moved on, he haven’t start dating. He had married her when she had cancer, and took care of her until she died, which is nice and honorable. And she lived for quite a while. But there was a full awareness that she was gonna probably pass before him. And she wanted him to have a get married again and have a girlfriend and things like that. And so she knew he wasn’t. So I’m sitting and he’s looking at me like, “Okay.” But he brought the ashes in several times, because he wanted to get more information and before we finally let her go. But it was always one time it was about her dad. I mean, his dad, the information he had about some medical issues that were going on with him. And of course, she was absolutely correct. But which is convenient, except you’re holding the ashes back. And I could have tapped into the ancestor and maybe found out the dad was having a medical problem, or the ancestor could have come forward during the session. And they do that and tell us there’s something going on, they’re not supposed to have this happening. And we can intervene or prolong the life because of the information they’re giving us. But it needs to come from the ancestral place, not from the place of them being stuck on the earthly planes. So the motivation is very different when we have passed over correctly. So anyway, so yeah, we gotta write that.



[43:55] Ashley James: Well, my experience working with you, everyone I’ve told my friends that I’ve been told I start with this was life changing. But that is so cliche to say that, and I even had a friend go, “Isn’t every healing session that you ever get, like, life changing until you get the next one?” Right? And I’m like, okay, it’s so it doesn’t describe what I went through with you. In our very first interview we were talking about, it was probably in our first. It was either a first or second interview after you told your story. And for listeners who haven’t heard it, you gotta go back to the first interview, because your story is amazing. During one of our first two interviews, you talk about and teach about possessions, and you start describing them. And it’s really funny, because you know what, it was our second interview because I was sitting here, our first interview was over Skype. And I was sitting here and you were describing the possessions. And I just laughed that I said, I think I have that. And you know half jokingly, but the more I learned for you, the more I started examining my motivations and behaviors. And I started diving in deeper and questioning myself where things come from. Because I’ve been on a lifelong healing journey around my relationship with food and my body, and my self confidence and working on myself for many years, I feel like I’ve done a lot of personal growth, and I’ve still have stuff I’m working on. And what I really got in the last few months, is that I would set a goal, let’s say, a new health thing I’m doing is not eating after 6pm. You know, sort of like intermittent fasting, I have a good dinner at six, and I don’t have to eat the next day till like 10. And then I go to bed on an empty stomach. Definitely, there’s lots of benefits to it. And I was excited. So I started doing that. And at 6:01 a little voice in my head would start arguing with me and would not shut up until my head hit the pillow, and my head hit the pillow and it would still try to get me to go to the kitchen. And I’m like going to sleep at you know, 10 at night. And that little voice in my head would be trying every which way to get me to break this goal, right? And I’ve had it for as long as I could remember. And so I really thought that that’s just part of me, or in some spiritual circles they call it the devil archetype where it’s like we always test our own resolve? Right? And so there’s this inner conflict that I was dealing with thinking it’s just me, but also I started to get kind of pissed off. Why? You know, I understand the science behind it. I believe in it. I want to do this one thing, right? Like this intermittent fasting. Why would there be another part of me fighting it? What’s going on? What’s the payoff? Right? And the more and more I listened and argued with this voice that would get more and more persistent, I realized, and it took me a while but I realized it wasn’t my voice. And I’m like, okay, who am I arguing with?


[47:17] Eric Thorton: It can be a big problem.



[47:19] Ashley James: Right. And then I hadn’t gotten too far into, but I started to see this voice in other areas of my life. Because I’d have to distinguish this voice from and I’ve actually had experts on the show talk about sort of like, the different aspects of self talk, right? You know, some self talk can be really positive. And then there’s the self talk that is really negative. And where does that come from? And what’s that designed to do? And I had one expert on the show, talk about how this negative self talk comes from wanting us to learn, but it’s kind of like so negative, you know, so if you’re near a hot stove, it’ll it might say something like, “Oh, you’re such an idiot? Why would you burn yourself?” You know it’s like that very, very negative, almost like a bully, right?



[48:08] Eric Thorton: It’s a form of self preservation. Right, but in a very negative way. I mean it could have said it very positively like, “Oh, good job not burning yourself near the stove.” Or whatever, right? But I would notice that the voice or voices, or just these aspects of myself talk, my inner dialogue would be negative, and I would catch myself going, okay, Is this true? Wait a second, this isn’t true. Like, I’d be with a friend and all of a sudden, that voice would say, you know, “She doesn’t really like you, do notice that she just rolled her eyes?” And it would start to corrupt my thinking. Right? So now now I’m doubting myself feeling very negative about myself. And always the inner dialogue would at every which way have me questioning myself. So there’s a lot of inner conflict because I use a lot of tools from NLP, neuro linguistic programming, and hypnotherapy and all the personal growth I’ve done, I’ve taken all the landmark classes and all the personal growth work, I’d have to very consciously catch myself, and redirect, but I would always be fighting these other belief systems that were inside me. And so I’m like, okay, so I was very conscious of the fact that I was having to catch myself and redirect and stay positive and not give in to the thoughts. Because I saw you recently was it two weeks ago?



[49:47] Ashley James: Yeah. Very, very recently. The weekend before I saw you, I had our son, my husband’s the one holding the microphone. So I’m looking at him. So my husband stayed at home and I took our son out, we were going to the park or something. And the voice in my head said, “Let’s go to McDonald’s.” And everyone that listens knows how healthy I eat. Right? And so that little voice was just really audacious to say that, because I haven’t had McDonald’s in eight years or nine years, nine years. And then it started to say, “Well, you know, you can have the fries.” And I’m like, I know I’m not gonna eat those fries. And I started arguing with that voice and I realized this voice is not me. There’s not one part, there’s not one molecule in my body that wants McDonald’s, like ever. I am very congruent about the fact that I do not want to eat that garbage. And this little voice goes, Well, let’s have the chicken McNuggets. They’re so good.” And it starts describing them and giving me images in my mind. And I’m like, no. And so I had to physically drive around to Monroe and around because I was going to go up Highway 9 where there’s McDonalds, I’m like, I am driving around this McDonald’s, I was going to Everett to meet up with a friend and go to a park. And so I had to drive make sure I wasn’t near a McDonald’s because this voice was hell bent on us having McDonald’s and it was really cool how it happened. In the past I might have given in, and I have often given into this voice thinking it’s just a part of me or, “Oh, it must be what my body needs because this is what a craving is.” And no, a craving does not have a voice, it does not have a consciousness. A craving is just a sensation in your body. If there’s an argument in my in my head, if there’s words that come with the craving, that’s not a craving that’s actually like an entity or consciousness, but a craving is just a physical feeling. But my entire life’s always been a craving followed by a thought process trying to talk me into it.



[49:47] Eric Thorton: Yeah. Right. The craving for McDonald’s, you’re not thinking about, you’re driving along. You go by McDonald’s, because you’ve been conditioned by commerciality, your mouth starts to water and you get a craving. You’re not thinking you have to go to McDonalds, this chicken, it’s a good one. Chicken Nuggets look special. It’s not telling you describing the objects and etc. You’re driving along thinking about nothing you drive to McDonald’s, oh, yeah, you know, Golden Arches to all beef base special sauce, etc. And then you get a craving. That’s a different thing.



[52:35] Ashley James: Right. And for me, I’d have maybe a craving for something, and I tried to resist it. But then I’d have this voice talking me into it. Or something little would happen in my life and this voice would start talking to me and I always thought it was just part of myself talk that I had to fight. And so when you describe possessions, and I burst out, it was interview number two, and I burst out and said, I think I have those right. And I think your reply was, well, those are kind of nasty. So hopefully, you know, but what was great was right before our session, I became very clear that there’s something that [Inaudible 53:14] my efforts that I feel like I’m always fighting, like Sisyphus, I feel like I’m always pushing the rock up the hill only to have it roll down again. I get so far with my health regimen and then I felt like I couldn’t fight the inner conflict anymore. It would just keep fighting. And so you know, I would take great measures like we don’t bring any junk food into the house. And we’ve been sugar free we eat as vegetarians.



[53:10] Eric Thorton: We put a lock on the inside so we can’t escape to go to McDonald’s?



[53:49] Ashley James: Yeah, we live out in the middle of nowhere. So it’s not like we can go to a 7/11 down the street or anything like that. My body has even gone so far thank goodness to have developed allergies to things like dairy. So it makes it really easy to not eat junk food when I’m allergic to it and I had violent reactions. But still, I’ve taken a lot of measures and yet that voice would always be driving me crazy having to fight it. So it became clear that it wasn’t a part of me. Well, if it isn’t a part of me, what is it? I’m not schizophrenic right? And I don’t have these kind of mental health issues. I know that about myself. So what is it? What’s going on? I arrived at our session, and we sit and talk for about 90 minutes, and I explained.



[54:35] Eric Thorton: It’s all about the dream.



[54:36] Ashley James: Okay, I’ll get there. I explained to Eric this is what I want to work on – this voice, I really feel like I have an inner conflict. And it isn’t me and I really get that it’s not in alignment with my values, my beliefs, my goals, anything. So let’s get rid of it. And Eric’s like, okay, well, let’s have you lay down on a table and see what your guides and angel’s saying, right? And the table, by the way, is very comfortable. Because I spent like five hours on it. But what happened a few weeks before, I had a very vivid dream that Eric was trying to kill me in my dream. And I woke up telling my husband, I’m like, “I don’t know if I can trust him.” I mean, that’s such a vivid dream. And I tried to analyze it over a few days. And I realized that it wasn’t true that you weren’t going to actually try to kill me, but it kind of it stuck in my mind. It’s like there’s this little threat. And then when I was here with you, you told me about how some people, I think because you were you were happy to see that I found your house okay, and I had no problems getting here. And you said a lot of people, if they have possessions, will try to prevent them from actually coming to the house. And I imagine that happens with other healers as well. Sort of like a parasite, when you start doing a parasite cleanse, if you don’t do it correctly, the parasites become agitated, and it makes the person even sicker. And so it’s like an energetic parasite is going to feel threatened. And you’ve had people not been able to find your house, even though it’s very easy to find. The car breaks down, they get injured right before coming. And you had one man, as you described, heard a voice in his head saying…



[56:24] Eric Thorton: Continually saying, “Eric Thorton is going to kill you, Eric Thorton is going to kill you. You can’t go there, and he’s going to kill you.” And it repeated all the way here and the weeks before. So some people get this even before they meet me. They get my name in dreams saying, “Don’t go to Eric Thorton, he’s gonna kill you.” And I just sit there and crack up. Because I’m like going, I don’t want dead bodies hanging around my house. They start to stink after a while, you know. But our job is to bring life. But their job is to bring grist. So you look at all this that’s happened to you, which you’ll finish your story in a few minutes. But it’s also helped you. So I’ll let you finish your story.



[57:10] Ashley James: What happened when the guy who was having this repeating in your head? Is that what you described to me as he got up to your front door and shook your hand and the moment he shook your hand the voice disappeared? And he’s like, “Okay, this is real.” Like, yeah, Eric’s the real deal. But that was his possession. trying to prevent him from coming to see you. And so I wonder how many people have had that experience where they’ve wanted to go see a healer and their possession has prevented them from getting that work?



[57:47] Eric Thorton: Well, it can prevent them. But most healers aren’t exorcist. So sometimes, not every time. But sometimes the healer can actually promote the possession being stuck there longer. Because they’re not able to see that it’s a possession. And they teach the individual how to compensate or teach their body how to compensate. So this thing can work even better in the background. Because now this person has learned to compensate. So the compensation is with the education. So all these years you’ve had this. It taught you to search. It taught you to be inquisitive. Why? Why am I feeling this way? Why is this happening to me? You had no context because the medicine men women aren’t around. But it literally got you to think beyond the box, subconsciously, at first, and then consciously, and then when you connected to someone that could help, It went “No.” But the other people, it didn’t do that, you didn’t have the realization because the practitioner wasn’t a threat to it. So I would say if 60% of the people coming to me have big enough possessions that they hear that voice. It also makes them doubt themselves and anything that can happen. Because it’s compelling them in ways subconsciously and consciously. Yours was compelling you both, some people’s is only subconscious. And it all is to teach us to grow into search. So anyone has done that and we have to find the value with it. You’re here today, because of that possession. You’re inquisitive, you’re doing the blogs, you’ve been involved in health, for how many years? I don’t even know. Because of that possession. What was it? Did it make you feel comfortable? No. Did it make you feel better? No. Did it caused medical problems? Yes. But it also stretched your brain, so that you could bring goodness to the planet, which is the motivation that it had to stop you from doing it, to provide that opposite – pull back, make her sick, make your unable to do this, that or the other, and she’ll have less effect, you’re an old soul, you’ll have less effect on the planet. So that’s its motivation. And for you, it actually backfires for it because it teaches you to search, and you’ve become who you are because of that possession. So it’s not wrong, is it uncomfortable for the body? You bet. But when we actually find someone that can remove it, it’s going to resist, because it’s been there for so long. And it’s worked well. If you hadn’t had the possession ever, you may not have been inquisitive, you may have just become very depressed with the problems that it gave you. I’ve had people in a similar situation, who it hasn’t compelled yet to make them, so they were younger. And they were just depressed and miserable. Because they couldn’t get out from under its oppression, they hadn’t turned it into something positive yet, the threat to it, I mean, the purpose of it is to turn it into positivity, which you’ve done. And now because that is gone, your reach will even be farther, it’ll just simply grow. And that’s consistent with everybody.


[1:01:35] Ashley James: I like how you’ve you’ve talked a bit deeper in the past interviews, you’ve described how these possessions, although are very negative experiences when they can help us grow because they give us a set of circumstances that can find us, that has us look for solutions like I have, right? And so if I hadn’t had any of this turmoil in my life, it wouldn’t have forged me or at least I chose to forge myself. And you say some people just stay miserable, and they don’t go look to better themselves, but some do. And so the hope is that we can use this negative thing to create growth and experience.



[1:02:24] Eric Thorton: To find God in your own way. The very thing that resists God, whatever that is, is the thing that compels us to find it. That’s the purpose of what we call dark energy. It’s not dark, but we call it dark because our bodies don’t like it. And but that is the purpose of that energy, is to project you into searching and growing, or it’s the underlying purpose of it. The Godly purpose of it. Its purpose is to prevent you. So you resist the prevention and you sling forward. It’s like a slingshot, you pull back, pull back, pull back, pull back, you finally let go and that rock slings forward. Well, the possession would be the slingshot, giving you the resistance from launching. But then it actually propels when it is removed properly, remove fully, and the person learns what it is. So when we work with people, we tell people, this is your first time session, there’s going to be more if you want to continue this, because like yourself, this was influencing your physical brain the whole time. So we remove the extra impetus, you might call it, you still have all the constructs in the brain, the neural pathways, so we have to start working on softening those. So giving them more neural plasticity, so that you can change it. By now you’re not being compelled, I should let you finish telling your story, which you should go do that.



[1:04:07] Ashley James: Well, so that’s one thing I did notice right away after our session is that that voice was gone. And I think it was more than one voice. But it was basically the inner conflict that wasn’t me, is no longer here. And it’s been a week since our appointment. The experience for me is like you said, the neural pathways, the habits are still there, but they’re empty. Like, I’m like a craving for food late at night, when I’m not really hungry and it’s more about just wanting to eat out of boredom like that voice would really, you know, “Let’s have this, let’s go, let’s eat that. Come on.” You know, “It doesn’t matter.” “You don’t need to be hungry to eat. It’s fun, let’s go.” Like that constant consciousness pushing me is gone. And the habit is there, but it’s empty. So I can just say, “No, I’m not going to do them. I’m not gonna do this, or I’m going to do this instead.” And then there’s no one arguing with me in my head.



[1:05:09] Eric Thorton: You can distract it. Duffy can give you back rub, and you’re not thinking about anymore. Or you drive by McDonalds, and pretty soon you’re paying attention to this headlight ahead of you, instead of thinking about McDonald’s. You drove by spurned all the commercial stuff, you’re done with it, you’re on to the next thing, instead of that consciousness as you put it, because it is. It’s alive. And the compelling and telling you what it needs. Possessions work on the brain. And it controls your body, they control your body through your brain. They can put voices in your head, they can lift your arm, they can make you, you know, you get shocked like if you get shocked by AC, you jump. Well possession can do the same thing, it can pull your legs to throw you across the room. Some of the bigger possessions can actually physically throw someone across the room. But most the time it’s activating your nerves in all parts of your brain. So it’s like drugs, you can hallucinate having drugs. Well, they stimulates the same part of the brain that causes hallucinations. And they can make you think someone’s saying something, someone’s talking to you, someone’s moving your body. Because it’s stimulating the nerves in your brain, you can feel pushed. And it’s actually your body giving you the motion, but it’s stimulating your brain so that you feel pushed. So they work through that brain mostly, like some can physically move you but most of it stimulating your brain to move you. But it’s in every form. It is the same part of the brain that you’re processing, sight, sound, thinking processes, etc. So the possessions can make you feel like it did with you that you’re hearing somebody or something intelligent is telling you, you gotta have it, it’s going to legitimize it, it’s gonna do everything it can to keep you down, keep you suffering, so that you can’t fulfill your role as your soul role. Because it’s a threat to possessions, by you interviewing me, it’s a threat to possessions all over the world. And it didn’t want that. So it’s going to try to stop you. So it can give you dreams, the one guy we described all the way up to the front door. The only reason he came in was because a priest recommended him to come in. So, “Father’s correct. Okay, gotta go see this guy.” So he just stayed with it. And then the voice was gone. And you know, it left neural pathways in his brain for certain behaviors. And he’s been working on that over the years, and they’ve gotten less. But while it was there, it was literally telling him how to do what to act, and it gets people to kill people. You know, you hear about people going insane. Sometimes they’re not insane. Someone’s got a possession. And it’s compelling them telling them, “God said to kill this person.” Well, they’re really feeling it. They’re really getting that information for years at times. And in our brain, how do you brainwash somebody? Repeat it. So possessions have a very powerful tool to use our brains.



[1:08:42] Ashley James: I was lying on the table. And that was actually a lot of fun. You were standing up by my head. And it was like listening to a one sided conversation, but you’re talking like you talk to someone on the phone. And you were talking to my angel, my guide. And it was it was very casual. It was intention. It was like you guys were at work kind of having a safety meeting. And you were just like, “Okay, do you want to work on this first? No, this how you want me to over here? Okay. Alright. Okay, you’re going to come in here and do that.” And it was just neat hearing this one sided conversation as you’re talking to them. And then you’d come over and you’d ask me a question. It’s like, “How do you know that?” You know, like you’d say something and it was so cool. Because I didn’t really give you a lot to run with. And you’d be like, “Okay, when you were this age, this happened.” And you describe the house? I’m like, “Yep. Yes. That happened. Yes. Okay.” And so then you were ready to remove one of three different possessions and you explain their energy and their purpose, you describe the three possessions. And at the very beginning, you did a prayer of protection over me from head to toe and you don’t ever touch me, your hands are sort of above me and you’re about to kind of come in and work around my heart chakra and then you pull your hands back because I could tell they told you something. I could see in your face you’re about to do something then you got interrupted, like someone grabbed your arm, I pulled you back and you’re like, “Okay, okay, do you feel that?” And I could tell that my guides or angels were saying, “Hold on a minute, slow down Eric, she’s got to feel this.”



[1:10:32] Eric Thorton: They wanted you to feel it because you’re an old enough so that you could feel these things. And it offers you legitimacy, if you can feel something that you know is not coming from me.



[1:10:43] Ashley James: Right. But you never said that the entire time, it’s like five hours. You never said that. But I could tell. I could tell right away. And so what it felt like was like a sandworm from dune crawling under my chest, it was circling under my skin. And that’s what it felt like and because you’d brought your hand close to me like maybe a foot away from my chest. And then you pulled your hand back. And that’s when I started to feel it circling under my skin. And that’s what it felt like. The best way I could describe is kind of like a sand dune. And then and then you said, “Okay, do you feel that?” I’m like, “Yes.” My heart was racing at that point. And yes, I do feel that, okay, let’s get rid of this very uncomfortable feeling. And you pulled it or my angels pulled it or whatever it was. It was pulled by the angels and guides. It was pulled out of me and had it hovering over my body. But now it’s out. So it has no more threat. And you’re like, “Okay, take your hand and move your hand through it.” And it was really funny because it was like putting my hand in two liters of water that was floating above me in a bowl. I put my hand in it. And it felt like cold water. And it was a warm day, up to 70 something degrees, the windows were open, there’s no fan moving through. It was a good…



[1:12:14] Eric Thorton: I had you feel the ambient hair too. Because so many people will do this trick. Well, they have the ambient air moving, which I like movement anyway. But when they have me do this, I said okay, feel the movement, basically feel the ambient air. So you feel what’s going on around you. Now put your hand over here then compare.



[1:12:37] Ashley James: Right. And you didn’t tell me what to feel. You were just like, “Okay, put your hand here.” So I put my hand out away from my body, like towards the window. “Okay, now move your hand inwards, what do you feel?” And and I did it repeatedly. And every time I did it, I felt like this ball of water basically over me. And so that was the first one. So then you put it off to the side and you pull it the second one. And you say, “Okay, move your hand around and say what you feel.” And it felt like moving my fingers through really thick fur. I felt just totally different. And then the third one felt like static electricity. And then you describe their personalities. And it’s exactly what I felt with each one. I thought that was really interesting. And then there was some other stuff you pulled out. And you didn’t tell me much about it. But you’re like, “Okay, just move your arm to your side, off to your side.” And as I did, I felt four columns of hot air that  hadn’t been there before. And you said, “They actually like that it kind of tickles them.” And so I move my hands back and forth. And I felt them and then you had them go. And then I put my hand there again, it wasn’t there. But each time you didn’t tell me what to feel, you didn’t implant sort of hypnotic suggestion, and you just said feel what you feel. And there was one point that you had me put my hand somewhere to feel something. And I screamed, I think I did twice because I was so freaked out because it was so clear to me that I was feeling something. I mean, not a scream, I was more surprised, not afraid, I was more like, “Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I can’t believe it, oh my gosh.” I could really feel the things because I think you  worked on 12 different things with me. I tried to count and it was a lot, it was not just like one or two. I mean there’s a lot of different things.



[1:14:28] Eric Thorton: When the energy system breaks down because of the the main possessions, you get one and it opens the door for others. They aren’t the main one. But they still open the door and bring in different things to control you in different ways to again render you less effective than if they hadn’t been there. For that whole projection thing because your soul knows what it has to do. So it’s gonna struggle towards it. So but yeah, there were a number of things that came out. I call them ramifications of the original possession. So then we had to remove them from your house, the cars every place you’ve been, your son, any possible residue with people you’ve worked with over the years, etc. Because it opens the door for all of these people. It can damage the energy system of anyone that comes in contact with. So that’s why we have to take care of all these little details. Even biblically, it says when you’re an exorcist, you have to do it right. Otherwise, you pull back many hundreds more. So you have to go through it to be able to see here and be a part of with the guides and the angels be the part that’s in our space. That’s why they use people, because they use healers in our space, because this is where we operate the best. They’re in another space, you might call it, so they’re in the other room. So it’s be like them, using the surgeon’s hands to do the operation while you were getting instructions from the other room while the surgeon was giving instructions, because the surgeon’s actually there with the physicalness that you and I have, that there are more effective tool. They can do it without us, but it’s not as effective. And there’s not the lessons involved. So they don’t do it. People ask, “Well, why don’t my guides just remove it?” Well, there’s no lesson involved then. They’ve removed the purpose of all this pain and suffering you’ve had, with you not having those realizations, that this is real, that it’s life changing, and that you can then feel it. It’s not letting you off the hook, you still have responsibility for getting your health better so it is more effective. And every practitioner that helps you is more effective. That’s why our work is so inclusive. When you remove that energy or you remove constructs from people at these levels, everyone else’s work works including Western medicine and Naturopathic medicines, all the practitioners; Reiki works better, acupuncture. If you remove that, no one could help you. All these years, you’ve had all these people trying to help you. And you’ve learned a lot and it’s helped you with your work. That’s the possession that provided that, the platform. But they haven’t been able to get down to the bottom line of that conscious compelling that we get inside of us. That’s not our consciousness. So I love that you use that word consciousness, because that’s what I described to people. These things are alive. These are not thought forms from people, these are alive. And they have a job to do, to provide resistance. So that it compels you forward. And some people, it breaks.


[1:18:06] Ashley James: Yeah, we talked about my cousin who had received the same possessions at the same time when we were nine. And she now has schizophrenia. She developed it much later in life. Normally schizophrenia shows up when hormones kind of kick in during teenagers. And hers showed up in her… she was almost 30. I’m just thinking of it now. And it really kicked in when she was almost 30. But she had received the same possessions at the same time. And it makes total sense now looking at her life and seeing the turmoil that she went through are the same conflict, but because we’re different, obviously different people, and I can see how someone who’s maybe not I don’t know, as stubborn as I am. You know, I’m just saying. But someone who’s not as stubborn as I am, would have given into the voices and been driven insane.



[1:19:09] Eric Thorton: Exactly. Now, the driving insane isn’t wrong, we are all going to have a life like that, or several lives, because there is experience and learning and compassion develops for people who have those problems. So I’ve been through life like that. And so I have a tremendous compassion for people that have mental problems, because I also know what compels them. Now with your cousin, the mental problems were second, they weren’t first. So it was caused by a possession. So then your cousin, if she was so compelled, which he may not be the type that can, we could remove the possession, and then any medications and stuff that she’s taking to control it will work far more effectively, perfectly usually. And then the brain can rest. And they slowly back out of schizophrenia. If the possession I mean, if the schizophrenia comes first, you still have to remove the possession so that the medicine can work better. And then they’ll require much more therapy to get it under control. Where like your cousin, it could probably come under control fairly quickly, over several months. And were someone who had it beginning, it would take much longer, we’d have to do much more healing with them to get their brain to stabilize. We have success with both ways.



[1:20:32] Ashley James: So a friend of ours went through a pretty nasty divorce and the wife’s side of the family… And he loves his wife, by the way. It was really messed up, what took place and he wanted to be with her but she wanted to change him to the point that he wouldn’t have been himself anymore. And there was no resolving it, it was two totally opposing forces. Her whole side of the family is Orthodox Russian Catholic. And there’s about 200 of her family members sending him hate energy, hate thought forms wanting him to suffer because they’re all angry that he was the one that initiated the divorce. He just sent the papers. She’s the one that basically did everything to say we’re done. And he’s just the one that helped complete it. So there’s 200 people every day praying for his demise. And he feels, he told me he’s been dealing with health issues that don’t make any sense. He’s had tachycardia where his heart is racing so bad. He’s basically having a heart attack. He’s been in the hospital for the last few years. And he’s even had cardiologist open his heart up to try to find what’s causing tachycardia, they say you have the healthiest heart have ever seen. We cannot explain it. Now he goes to all kinds of healers, chiropractors and acupuncture and he takes herbs and eats healthy and everything under the sun. And he still has these issues, he’ll just breakout, he’ll have these attacks where his entire body will be inflamed, and he’ll be covered head to toe in inflammation and scales and hives and I’ve told him like, “Okay, we need to eat anti inflammatory diet, and you need to rest.” And he’s tried everything and when it comes down to it, he really feels like the thought form of these people or this energy from these people are harming him. The reason why I’m telling the story is that you’ve talked about sort of possessions and thought forms and that they are different. Is this an example of a thought form where it’s many people sending a negative thought to him, or can you maybe just go into, the reason why I’m illustrating all this is that my husband wants to know, and that was one of his questions, is how can we protect ourselves from these negative energies? And I know it’s a little difficult to protect yourself from a possession but thought form is something else. So can you teach us what are ways that we can protect ourselves from either negative energies, thought forms, that kind of thing?



[1:23:28] Eric Thorton: Well, this was a friend, okay. With him, he’s got these people giving prayers of petition for his ill health and demise. Well, what’s compelling those people? So they’re sending these thought forms. But what’s compelling these people? Those thought forms are like opening a road to these people’s possessions. If people didn’t have the possession, and they were Christian people, they would never think of doing something like that. You’re not supposed to judge if you’re Christian. You’re not supposed to, you’re supposed to be accepting. What’s complaint them not to be? So they have all these thought forms, they open up because they’re throwing it all to this guy, he starts to feel ill from the thought forms, then he’s opened up to all of their possessions. And any ones that might be in his energy field, it just opens him right up. So the best defense is positivity, the best defense is not finding those vibrations. So some people say, well, you know, the best defense to not have voodoo happen is you don’t believe in it. Well, there’s some truth to that, like energy comes together. So if you fall prey to someone’s opinion, you are now vibrating at their level. So their energy can then or energy like whatever they’re having, can come to you. So it’s like if you accept someone’s opinion or not. If you accept their opinion, their beliefs, you are now having their frequency. So anything that affects them can easily similar or the same can affect you. So people ask me all the time, how do you protect yourself by becoming a vibration that’s so foreign to these lower frequencies, you might call them, that they can’t even find you. So my frequency if I’m in a bad mood, or if I’m in a place that you may call it, you know, depression or pity or just a human emotion thing going on hormonal, or whatever, I’ll call and cancel appointments. Because I could get damaged. I’m having that frequency because of my hormones, or my life going on. And I’m not able to separate at that moment. So then if the client comes in with something similar, I am vulnerable. So then I’m doing damage to them too. So it’s completely out of integrity. So the way I stay clear is by not by being what some people would call enlightened, and conscious. So that I’m just simply not that frequency. It’s not science. You know, when we sit here, there’s thoughts out there that you have to surround yourself with purple light or white light, and have this defense system against all this stuff. Well, fine, you know, that works, until someone throws your curveball. And it makes it right by your defense system. Or guess what you thinking about, you know, the possession in you got you thinking about McDonald’s, instead of holding up that white light. Well, the white light goes away, because the intention goes away, because you’re now thinking about McDonald’s, and you’re thinking that waiting can pop right in at that moment. Where if you are in your soul’s personality, and realize life is human life, and it’s okay, and all of its foibles, and everything else, and yes problems are going to come to you, but you don’t. You learn to move through them quickly. You’re not entertaining those frequencies. So you’re not vulnerable. Remember, the purpose of a possession is to get you basically to find God. If you found that, truly, there’s no more reason for the possession. It’s done. It can’t be in your energy field. And so that’s what we use – frequency. The word frequency for that, we call the things that bother us a lower frequency, and the things that help us is a higher frequency. That’s an opinion. They all have similar, not similar, they all have different frequencies, equally different. And there’s not lower or higher ones, there’s just the ones that are drawn to this type of energy, a magnet that is for this versus a magnet that’s for this. So how do you stay clear? Realizing that human life is really good in all of its problems. And realizing that after you’ve gotten there, truly gotten to that enlightened place where you accept the problems of your life, and you don’t dwell on them, you move through them, then you start becoming what we call conscious. You’re conscious, no one really explains what that is, you got to get consciousness, Deepak got to have consciousness. What is that? Consciousness is awareness of who you are on a soul level. You are aware of the soul’s personality. And when you’re in that personality, when you’re operating from those frequencies, versus when you’re operating from your animal personality. Those are based on fear, because we’re we’re all going to die. The soul’s personalities based on beautiful, everything’s fine, it’s all good. And when you are in that, when I’m working, I’m in that, and then I am able to pick up on all those frequencies really well. When I’m having my human drama, you know, people go, “Well, how do you turn it off?” I go, “Well, I’m not in that frequency anymore.” I’m having my human drama with my wife, or my kids or the lawn or whatever it is. And so then I am in my human, this. And when the second I’m clicking into helping people or meditating or the guides are calling on me for something, I’m aware that I can’t reach that from the human body, I have to reach that from the soul. And so here, I get the same problems in the human body, I get the same problems you do. I can get a possession. I’m very aware of it, though. Really quickly. Sometimes it’s a little too quick. The guys go calm down. I go, okay. One time I come into the house, and we went to dinner or something as a family. I come to the house and I was going, “What the heck did say that?” I said something else. And everyone goes, “What?” And I go, “Something’s up.” And I just started to expand to look at my space. And the guides go, “No, bam! And they throw me back into my body.” And they go, “Just let it be.” And I go, “We’re invaded. I gotta work on people. This can’t happen.” They go, “Let it be will take care of it.” And I’m going, “Okay, I guess.” So I’m looking for this change. And it was down in our washroom. And what we call a negative vortex was sitting in my washroom. And it was causing this negative feeling in the house and drawing in all these ghosts and poltergeists into my home. So I came in, and it was like, “What the heck is going on?” I’m seeing all this stuff, and smelling the classic things, cologne, cigarettes, cigars, all this stuff, the second I got in here, and then I’m looking around, and the house is full of all these energies. And you know, something’s broke here. Found it, they said, leave it alone. Because what happened was, there was a process they were showing me that took took a two week period that they had to mitigate. Remember, these possessions are beings, they have a job to do, but they’re alive, and they affect all kinds of things. And without spending two hours explaining all that, it had affected because of a client coming in, in a few weeks, certain things had to happen here to make it, so we could get rid of this major possession that this guy had. He was one of the people that caused problems in my house when we removed the possession. But if we hadn’t gone through the process, my house probably would have burned down.


[1:32:27] Ashley James: What happened when you removed the possession from him?



[1:32:30] Eric Thorton: This was the one where I told the story last time. When the possession came out, the guides were getting rid of it. And it was a very powerful possession. And it was one when the person experienced… I’m trying to remember their experience, but the whole house got frost on the walls. And I told you a little bit about it. That came out and when the frost disappeared, because the whole house temperature dropped like 50 degrees instantly. And then it came upstairs on the way out is stamped on the ceiling of the rec room and caused the screws actually to back out. And my son was watching TV in the rec room at the time. And I just hear him go, because he was downstairs working obviously with clients. And I just hear him go, “Dad.” And we left those screws are still out. We left them there, only to remind them that this is real stuff. But it was one of those possessions that it had to be dealt with over a period of a couple weeks to get it to make it so when that person came in, they could do it because they knew it was going to be a struggle. And they had to make it easy for me. So they did and then they taught my son a lesson too.



[1:33:52] Ashley James: You told me about how one woman who came to see you, the possession had to do with her mother and as it left blew out circuits in your house and did like $1200 in damages?



[1:34:06] Eric Thorton: It blew out, it came out she could feel it released like you’ve kind of felt it released. And it the guides were bringing out and it was pissed. It was middle of winter, so my heater was running. So its frequency made electronics burn out. So when it came out, it just ran by my heater, and the heater was running. And Forster, he could hear it running. And also there was a pop and the heater goes… Looks like I just went damn. The person goes, “Was that my mom?” I said, “Well, no. But it was with your mom.” And she goes, “Thank God. I’ll pay for that.” And I go, “Thank God.” Because it was 1200 bucks for a new circuit board for my heater. So I had to run around and plug in heaters, electric heaters, and then order the parts for that and have it put in. But yeah, they are different frequencies and can cause different problems. Prior to that, which I didn’t get into, this possession was at her house too. And they had problems with their cars,  it’s too hot at their sink. You know, you turn the water and you got boiling water? They kept burning out every week, they have someone come and put a new one in, burn out. Put another one, all under warranty. They were doing this work for free and it was a possession. And they think they went through five Insta Hots before we got rid of the possession completely. So its frequency was just one that blew electronics. I run into all kinds of interesting processes with possessions. With yours, you were able to able to feel it and etc. and all the things that guides wanted you to do, which is perfect. And it shows your gifts. Most people cannot feel that energy. And your guides want to do it that’s why they stopped me. And they go, “No, this is part of her process. She needs to feel this.”



[1:36:11] Ashley James: Yeah.



[1:36:12] Eric Thorton: In her body and outside of her body. You know, I can’t ask people that aren’t gifted to do that. That’s why wait for guidance from the guides, because they know if the person can feel it or not. And I don’t want to make them feel bad if they can’t.



[1:36:26] Ashley James: Right.



[1:36:26] Eric Thorton: Because then they also doubt themselves more too. So I wait for guidance.


[1:36:33] Ashley James: At the end of Duffy’s session, we talked about that in the last interview, you gave him a whole list of, I guess his guides gave you to give to him a whole list of foods to stop eating currently, one of them being broccoli. Because his gut dysbiosis needed to be corrected. And you were given clear instructions for Duffy; do this, don’t do that, we got to heal your gut, it was very physical. And then at the end of my session with you, like you say something like your guides told me don’t tell her what to eat. Yeah, my guides would say that don’t tell her what to eat, she knows what to eat, you don’t need to tell her what to eat



[1:37:15] Eric Thorton: Your system removing those, because they’ve specifically worked with that. Your system needs to resettle and recalculate. The guides are big on letting the body find its new setting. Once you remove some influence, the body’s got to find that and everything with your health or anybody else’s that has it at these levels that are affecting your health. Every single one of them, they say back off, let the body settle, because what affects your health before that possession is removed, and after are very different things. So you’re allergic reactions, your cravings, all those things that are happening, including all these other physical ailments that are happening in there, they’re irrelevant, because they were caused by a possession. So the body goes through all this stuff, settles out, four to six weeks, then we start to look at, okay, then we can look at your Flora prior that the Flora is not going to be right, because the possession is going to control that. And you can put all the right stuff in there, eat all the right things, to get that Flora back or not eat some things to get it back. It won’t work. So we have to respect the body’s process. Now, that frustrates people, because we all want it now. You know, I was telling you earlier I have this client who was in their second visit. And she’s a little disappointed. She emails me and she goes, “Well, I feel different. Basically, my life’s different. But I this and this and this and this and this, and this practitioner said this and this and this.” Tearing apart the work we have already done. So my response to her was, let it work, stop listening to other practitioners that you’ve listened to before our sessions, because they didn’t realize this was a problem. And I said just let it be for a while longer, then we’ll take another look. And that’s what another session would be about.



[1:39:27] Ashley James: Yeah.



[1:39:27] Eric Thorton: So we have to allow the body, the brain, everything to settle out.



[1:39:34] Ashley James: And you and I had been talking about that story. Because so many people will come to you in their second session and go, “Well, this is better. And this is better. But what about this, and I want this and I want this.” And I think that’s what we often do in life, is look for the next carrot instead of spending some time in the now with gratitude and acknowledging what has healed, what has changed, like spend some time and let the body catch up, let the neurology catch up. And honor your body by going well, this worked, this is different, this is good. Like after having a cold, you don’t start running marathons and pulling all nighters like you need to give your body, even though you don’t have the symptoms anymore of a cold, you need to give your body two to three weeks to come back and to gain its strength back. And so we can be happy that we have discovered a new level of health. And we need to stand in that gratitude. And then work on our sort of list of complaints, right? But what I’m getting from you is that when we come from the list of complaints that’s kind of coming from that drama, that ends up attracting more thought forms and more negative energy. When we’re in drama, we become susceptible to negative energy, into possessions.



[1:40:56] Eric Thorton: Exactly. That’s what I’m talking about of enlightenment. If this lady was in enlightenment, she would be appreciating what had been done, and letting her body revel in that and get all those positive hormones correcting a whole lot of these ailments she’s already wanting fix right now. And it’s like no, backup. It took her 50 years to get where she was at. Yes, she’s seen a lot of practitioners that couldn’t help her prior to it that maybe could now because her possessions were gone. But she spent a lot of money, I get all that. But this is a new day. With each person I work with, they’ve never worked with someone like this. And you’ve got to give it that time. And as you put it, the carrot, throw it away. Learn to be in the moment. Yes, like your health issues, they have the possibility of switching now. You realizing all this was there, and you give yourself the body time and honor this amazing thing we have, these bodies to survive this stuff are phenomenal. These bodies have these chemical reactions, these RDA, the DNA, the RNA. All these things, processes going on that’s phenomenal, that is energetic, that gets disrupted by these other influences. You got the body, give it a few weeks, been 50 years or 30 years or whatever doing the other thing. Give it a few weeks. It’s amazing what will happen. But humans aren’t innately dissatisfied. And when you’re not enlightened, you don’t learn to roll and love the positive. The things to be in gratitude for, the grace that is giving you every day of your life. We bypass it. And I understand it, because I’m the same way. I want my peanut butter and jam sandwich when I would, and not when someone was to give it to me. And so I get it. I try to explain this to people, to give it the time. But of course, people hear what they want to hear, their filters. It’s amazing how I tell people, very similar things, different conversations, of course, but there’s a certain process like discussing this with the client. And they don’t even hear it. Because they’re so involved with their negative dialogue. So that’s one of the things that over time, we change, we provide the platform, real platform for them to really start taking a look at that, and finding that place of enlightenment. So it’s kind of a challenge to me, when people come in with that agenda. I look at it as, I kind of smile when they write to me, I don’t take it as negative, I take it as, “Well, they’re in their learning process.” And it’s like, “Okay, so we got lots to teach them. I wonder if they’ll stick with it? We’ll see.” But it’s also used to bother me. Because it’s like, well, does it reflect on me and my work? You see, that was ego. And the guides go, “Think about that, Eric.” and I go, “Oh, yeah, right.” And the New Age calls it onion skins. Well, it’s not really onion skins, but it’s just how fast our body can do this. And our bodies can’t change overnight, it will kill us. And so they have to honor that. Yeah, they can provide miracles, you know, cancer can disappear. Well, that’s not going to kill you when the cancer disappears. But if they release all the toxins in your body, so they can get out of your body at the same time, that can kill you. So they have to provide the platform for your body to start functioning correctly, and start getting rid of these toxins or things like that, or parasites and such, so that it starts happening, then they can work with it a little faster. Because the body’s already doing it. So it’s not going to go into shock. So I can say over the years, I’ve learned to take it as kind of a giggle, instead of a criticism. Well, they’ll get it, because I’ve watched people get it. And all of a sudden, their life just changes, that little bit of grace offered. And all of a sudden they become quite positive. And they get the twinkle in their eye, you know. And it’s just, it’s lovely to watch that,  that’s why I keep doing this, even though it’s very difficult to see the depravity of the human condition. But it’s why I forget sessions, and then we call the gift of forgiving, because if I remembered all that stuff, I would be haunted by it. And I’d start manifesting it. So I forget sessions, I even forget a lot of your session, and that was just a couple of weeks ago. What’s important for me is to remain in that enlightened place, and to be aware of my soul’s personality and that keeps me protected, and helping people.


[1:46:14] Ashley James: There’s this medical intuitive who’s become quite famous for telling the entire population of the world that everyone would benefit from drinking celery juice, he has single-handedly doubled the price of celery in the last year. You cannot find really nice the organic celery. Really nice. I mean, it’s all bear pickens now because there’s a whole New Age movement of people juicing celery in the morning, and I’ve heard some really interesting results. It helps the body to create better stomach acid and alkalizes the body at the same time. So it’s the building blocks for helping make good strong stomach acid which of course corrects the digestive tract, and also is going to help, any kind of juice really helps the body to become alkaline. But his thing is 100% of the population should drink celery juice in his opinion. So what I’d like to know, have you ever received advice from the guides or angels, that is like a blanket, 100% of the population would benefit from X?



[1:47:32] Eric Thorton: Yes. Often, but it ain’t going to happen. It’s like the guy recommending celery juice. Well, if we all drink tons of celery juice, one, there’d be no celery left. But two, if you have too much celery juice, there’s problems from that too. A certain amount of It’s good. It’s like eating papaya, amazing for your flora in your intestine, phenomenal. But people don’t like papaya, they get sick of celery juice. Celery juice is an energy. You can also bring in that same energy. My doctor knows me, he goes, “Eric, you can either do this, you can take this pill, or you can touch the pill. Or you can hold on to the bottle. Or you can just think about it if you want.” Because he knows that that medicine is a frequency that might help me. And I can actually refine that frequency. That’s how Homeopaths work. That’s how the placebo effects work. Because you think it’s the sugar pill is a certain frequency. You pull it in, you get better. Because the pill would actually, if it was a real pill, it would be a certain frequency. So the celery juice, yeah, it’s providing a certain frequency. It’s like in Japan, they go through this thing where everyone goes walking through the forests, it’s the frequency of the forest, we can do it here too. It makes you feel better, it can make everything work better. It does, so does celery juice. Only, do you need to drink celery juice every day? Wouldn’t hurt you if you didn’t drink too much. And for those whose bodies are not clear, whose bodies are having problems with the digestion, if they get cleared, like you’ve got cleared, that thing was bothering your digestion, celery juice might help for a while. But after a while, your body figured it out and can grow its own thing that was influenced the celery juice influenced. So your body can literally start doing it by itself. So that’s why these fads come and go. Celery juice is something that went through, it went through about 10 years ago. And then I remember when I was a teen, it was all about celery. And they come and go because the next generation hasn’t heard it yet. So the previous generation that heard it needs to be reminded. And so yeah, I’ve heard the celery juice story and it’s true. But do we need it all, all the time? No, we don’t. Would a lot of people benefit from it currently? You bet.



[1:50:19] Ashley James: Is there anything similar to the celery juice that people would largely benefit from?



[1:50:24] Eric Thorton: Yes. We recommend when the guide say too, the whole food plant based diet. That is the best. And it is the only scientifically proven diet with proponents as evidence. All the massive studies done at Harvard, Stanford, Oxford, paid for by nonprofits, not for profit; for a Center for Disease Control, World Health Organization. So there’s no commercial influence in the biases of the studies, we all have is cognitive bias. So if Bear is paying for a study on sugar, they’re going to want certain information from that study. So the study isn’t neutral on sugar, they’re only going to look at what they want.



[1:51:12 ] Ashley James: Like, there are companies that make food like Nestle or Kellogg or, you know, these major food companies that pay for studies, health studies on sugar, and diet. And you’ve got to imagine that there’s definitely an influence there. They want to prove that there’s a certain amount of sugar that’s safe.



[1:51:35] Eric Thorton: Right. And the World Health Organization has determined there’s no amount of sugar that is safe. And sugar does give you benefit. It raises your blood sugar really quickly. And so the Nestle’s will go on that, how did it do that? So emphasize that, but we’ll forget that when your blood sugar goes up really fast, it causes terrible growth in your body, causes insulin resistance, etc, etc. and changes your pH so cancer can grow and things like that. They’ll ignore that part of the study, because all their studies are based on the studies from whole food plant base, from that group. And that is ultimately what is best for every human being. Does every human being have to eat that way to live a long life? No. There are 10% in their studies that show that eating a non whole food plant based diet, those 10% of the people will not get heart disease from eating the standard American diet, we call it. But they will still develop all the other problems, bad knees, bad hips, you know, diabetes, high blood pressure, metabolic syndrome issues, and then all the hundred and 80 different diseases, including various cancers that eating this standard American causes. So like sometimes they say, well, this person isn’t going to change. So let’s see if we can say okay, you can eat meat, but just a smaller amount, and up the antioxidants by eating vegetables and fruits. And then see if we can get them to reduce their sugar and things like that. And they will get healthier, and they might live to be 94 and 95 with a good heart. But they’ll have all these other problems too. But it keeps them going. But ultimately, when I ran into that, years ago, the guides went, that is what the human body needs. Period. With that said, People don’t follow it. Oreo cookies, they’re not whole food plant based but they are vegan. And they are vegetarian, and they will kill you. Or they’ll develop their diet with “Well, this person said this is okay. And this one said this is okay.” And they’re back to the commercialism. And they slowly change it back to and they say see my diet failed.



[1:54:08] Ashley James: Right. Oh, I have even done that before. But I’ve seen people do that where we can justify. Like Dr. Mark Hyman who I’ve had on the show, says meat is fine as long as we use like a condiment, and even Joel Fuhrman who himself does not eat meat, but he says if you could at least make less than 10% of your caloric intake be meat. And that really does help and so, Joel Fuhrman chooses not to eat meat, Dr. Mark Hyman, both of them have been on the show before. Mark says, you know, yeah, okay, just sprinkle a little bit of meat on something, like sprinkle it on a vegetarian taco or whatever. And his thing is, just don’t make a whole meal around the meat like most people do. And so if you pick and choose, you’re like, Okay, over here is the Mediterranean diet. So I’m going to eat some fish, then overhears the Atkins Oh, well, so I’m going to avoid some bread, and then over here, and you just kind of pick and choose. And then you’re messing everything up, you need to find something that is grounded in science. And they’re saying that the whole food plant based diet is healthy for 100% of the population. They need to make sure they’re actually doing it.



[1:55:19] Eric Thorton: Right. They sit here, it’s like the lady who called, she was doing this because she had heart problems. And she’s going, you know, I’m talking to her six weeks later, nothing’s happening. She’s doing oil pulling. So she’s putting oil in her mouth for an hour a day, to pull toxins out of our system. Well, it’s going down her throat. And oil is one of the things you can’t eat, nobody should eating oil. The pseudoscience say you get all these benefits from the oil. Well, it’s what’s in the oil that’s giving you the benefit. It’s like your omegas, those are chemicals. They’re not oil, you need the Omegas, but they’re chemicals, they happen to come out of the plants, or some animal has a few omegas in them, in the oil easiest. So then they sell you the oil.



[1:56:07] Ashley James: Well like EFAs or just basically juiced fish, right?



[1:56:13] Eric Thorton: They’re in broccoli.



[1:56:14] Ashley James: Right. Well and that’s how sardines and how salmon get to have so many Omegas in their flesh. They eat algae. So we can skip the middleman and just…



[1:56:26 ] Ashley James: Or they eat fish that had eaten algae. Exactly, or other green. Algae is generally green or brown, and it has the Omegas in it. So we can get all the you know, EFAs, DHAS, CoQ10, all these oils – I mean all these chemicals, without the oil. That’s what’s good for us. But because it’s easier for commercialism to get it in the oil, it takes a whole huge step process to pull it out of the oil. So it’s far cheaper. So feed them the oil, and keep telling them to have the oil because it’s easiest to get it into. But the oil scientifically shows its mother’s the bacteria in your intestine. And then you can’t digest grains, or the meat very well. The oil smothers the probiotics in your intestines that need air in order to live. It coats them so they can’t pull the air in. That’s the reason you can’t have oil. Because how many billion dollar industry is the probiotic industry and the vitamin industry? If you can’t get the nutrition because you don’t have the probiotics to get it, just take another pill, just buy this from us. No, you can’t get it from those things, you have to get it, you got to get the probiotics right by not eating the darn oil. And one of the reasons meat is so bad because even boneless skinless chicken is 30% fat, which is oil. That’s one of the reasons you can’t eat meat, it’s so bad for us. Sprinkled on things, like the way Asians used to eat, for the whole family, they use six ounces of meat. If you do that from birth, you don’t develop the problems as much, you still will develop a little bit, but not nearly as much. They call those the Blue Zones, the areas where people eat more primitive. When you get more affluent, you start wanting the things that are richer. So the diets of people that are poor, are actually better than the diets of the rich people, because the rich people want the creams, the things that put on fat, because our body wants to have a big bank account. And it’s like you put on that oil and you hold the oil in these oil cells. There are several things that go on with this. The fat cells, you can read about this in the book China Study, this is all scientifically shown. The fat cells, our bodies produce the fat cell, but it cannot fill it up. So this hasn’t been on Good Morning America talking about this. When you cut into a person, you’re cutting those fat cells. And it’s rancid oil, and they stink.



[1:59:42] Ashley James: That’s what surgeons say.



[1:59:42] Eric Thorton: Right. That’s what surgeons say, it’s this rancid oil. So your body once it gets it in there, it gets rancid and the body doesn’t wanna let go of it. Because it’s actually rancid, it’s poisonous. That’s why we have such a hard time losing weight and easy time gaining it. So if you eliminate the oil from your diet, it will use the oil slowly in your system so that you will have enough oil. Our bodies cannot fill those fat cells up with something that is human. And so eating all this oil also literally fills up those cells. And if you stop eating it, your cells deflate. And eventually the cell itself will go away. Or you have liposuction and get them removed or whatever. But it is a problem. Now the other thing that happens is we are also the only mammal on the planet that doesn’t produce our own antioxidants. Antioxidants are what kill the major part of your immune system. They kill viruses, bacteria, they keep systemic diseases under control. And when you don’t eat those fruits and veggies, you are susceptible to major diseases and illness.


[2:01:01] Ashley James: You’re talking about vitamin C. Animals produce their own vitamin C, but humans can’t.



[2:01:05] Eric Thorton: Correct. That’s exactly right. And so we have to eat them. And that’s the premise and let me backup a little bit. When you eat the food as a whole product, your body can use the whole thing and use everything, we talked about it a little bit, last time we talked about how an apple, you get 50 milligrams of vitamin C out of an average apple. And if you extract that, you get a 50 milligram raise in your vitamin C level in your blood. But if you eat the whole apple, you get a 1500 milligram raise of vitamin C levels in your blood, because your body uses the whole apple just like photosynthesis does. It’s photosynthesis taking place. And it’s growing all these chemicals inside the apple making the apple. Where your body will utilize all that produce till the right digestive enzymes to put in to get the body to make more vitamin C out of the chemicals in an apple. Just like the photosynthesis did, or similar. Can’t say just like, we don’t have light shining on us like that. And we’re not green, unless we’re really sick. But it does a similar thing. And that’s why it’s called whole food. They don’t want you taking supplements unless there’s a major reason for it. Because it’s away from the whole food. That’s why this diet is the one that is good for every human being. Yes, you can throw in a little if you’re not sick. In other words, if you’re young. So my daughter has chosen to do this on her own, no parental influence. And then we can prove it because our son still eat some meat and she decided to do this. And it changed the way she feels, the speed of which she runs, the way she can build muscle and everything because she’s getting enough antioxidants. Her body’s alkaline now, and so it can function properly. And she can have because she’s young, she doesn’t have any illnesses. So like when she went to Ireland, she tried their sausages. You know, when she’s out, she doesn’t have to panic about oil. She try to order things without oil. But if there’s oil, if that’s all there is, she’ll eat it. But she’s young and doesn’t have heart disease, or deteriorated joints yet, metabolic syndrome yet. So she’s continuous like that. She will probably never get any of these major diseases until she’s 95. That’s terrific. And that’s what Fuhrman’s talking about, if you can do it from early on, didn’t hurt you so much.



[2:03:52] Ashley James: I had Dr. Esselstyn on the show, really great interview. He is great. I’ve had three cardiologists on the show, all have sort of very different different takes on how to heal the hurt, all of them get results, but Dr. Esselstyn gets the most results. Anyone listening who has any problems with a heart health or any friends with heart health or family, definitely share, listen to and share the Dr. Esselstyn interview that I did. And by the way, if you don’t know how to find it, you can go to www.learntruehealth.com and type in cardiologist and use the search bar or type in Dr. Esselstyn, use the search bar to find the episode. He did the world’s longest study. I believe it was over 12 years old or it’s still going on. I think he wrote it up after 12 years. But yeah, he took a bunch of people who had end stage heart disease four clogs in their heart, you know, absolutely end stage. And he got them on this diet, whole foods plant based, no salt, sugar, oil. And by whole food, I mean, you can make really delicious food out of it, it’s just whole ingredient. Here’s a whole broccoli, here’s a whole asparagus, you know, and you’re not cooking with oil or fat, you’re cooking with broth that  doesn’t have salt in it or water. And you can actually saute something as though it had butter or oil in it using a little bit of water. And so he has these cooking techniques. But in his diet, he has been able to reverse clogs in the arteries and completely reverse hardening of the arteries, the narrowing of the arteries, he’s been able to get people off of the heart transplant list and off of medications using this diet. And they follow people for years to prove that, that it sustains the results.



[2:05:52] Eric Thorton: Right. Exactly. I’m one of those patients. I don’t know if he took down the statistics because this was six years ago. Now that was when I talked to him was four years ago. And I’ve talked to him number of times since. I was what he called the walking dead. I was scheduled for literally two days when I talked to him for open heart surgery, I already had a massive heart attack. And the guides corrected it. I had no signs of the heart attack, but I still developed the coronary artery disease. I was vegetarian. I still had coconut oil, little bit, one teaspoon. I had egg whites in the morning for breakfast, when I put the coconut oil in the pan. And I had an occasional piece of cheese like once every two weeks, and maybe a little bit of lunch meat once a week. That was it. As far as anything else. Everything else was healthy vegetarian. Not crap vegetarian, I still developed more coronary artery disease. So on the way to see a whole food plant based cardiologist, we had called, and my wife had called, and he called back right literally in the lobby going to the cardiologist place. And he goes, “I know that guy, he’s good.” And he goes, “What are you doing?” I said, “Well, we switched to whole food plant base, because of pump head because of all the problems of this open heart surgery.” And I was ready for it. And he goes, “Okay, he goes, you’re doing that. Now I want you to add to it.” So he says, “My latest book is going to have this in it. It’s out now, I don’t know the name of it. But it has this part in it too.” He had me ate six cups of green steamed vegetables packed after they were steamed a day on top of my regular vegan diet or whole food plant based diet.



[2:07:47] Ashley James: And did he have you sprinkle balsamic on it?



[2:07:50] Eric Thorton: Yes, yeah. He explains that in our interview. He has people eat every two hours as they made a whole bowl of steamed greens. He has like 12 greens choose from and you rotate them. And every T is basically a full time job, every two hours, you get to eat this big bowl of greens, and then you sprinkle it with balsamic. And I never liked balsamic until he explained why that there’s an acid in balsamic that heals the inner lining of our circulatory system is healed by this acid from the balsamic. And he’s found that, that is even more effective for immediately helping to clear up the arteries. Right. So I did exactly that, and within three days the angina went away. Within three months, 90 days, 90 days, right? I was off of five medications that were serious medication for heart disease. I was completely off off of them. The doctor goes, “Stop.” I’d cut reduce my blood pressure medication, and reduce and cut in half and cut because the blood pressure was getting too low. And finally I go in, I’m taking a quarter of the dose and he goes, “Stop it, you’re killing yourself.” The veins had opened up that fast.



[2:09:12] Ashley James: The doctor wanted to stop the drugs or stop the diet?



[2:09:14] Eric Thorton: The doctors stopped the drugs. They told me stop taking them. You’re getting too healthy. I’m sitting there going, “Yes!” But that’s, you know, for me, that is a big thing for me. So I can stick to the diet or stick to the lifestyle quite easily. Because I think, well if I eat that oil, is it going to give me a heart attack? Now I know it won’t, at this point because my arteries are cleared up. And I’ve now proven had gone through the tests. The arteries are cleared up. But I’m susceptible to it. I have those genes. So and I know it and I know the effect. I’ve experienced the effect. It’s hard for people who haven’t experienced a major illness to define the motivation to do this. I get it. That’s not a problem for me. But if you can do it like even Dr. Esselstyn says Dr. Lyle and Dr. McDougall, if you can do it 70% of the time, you’re 70% better off. If you can do it 80, 80%, 90, 90%. You know Dr. Esselstyn, and it was hilarious. He goes, “My only draw, my only real weakness is every New Year’s Eve I ate peanut butter cups.” I just cracked, I go, “Really it’s peanut butter cups? He goes, “Yes. I just love peanut butter cups.” “Are they Trader Joe’s peanut butter cups? Because those are the ones that I like.” And he goes, “No, they’re Reese’s.” And I go, “Good for Reese’s.” But he even admits it, basically. It’s hard. And his family, his parents died really young from a dairy farm they used to have, you know, and it’s like, “Aw.” You know? And so, you know, he’s terrific.



[2:11:00] Ashley James: Yeah.



[2:11:01] Eric Thorton: And he does return phone calls.



[2:11:03] Ashley James: Yeah, he does. Actually, I’ve heard that from a few people. I met Rip, his son. Rip Esselstyn, who has a whole line of food at Whole Foods.



[2:11:14] Eric Thorton: Engine 2.



[2:11:14] Ashley James: Engine 2, that’s right.  A book, a very interesting book. And I met him at a talk he gave in Redmond at Whole Foods. The first thing you said is and there’s maybe about 50 people, “Who here has talked on the phone with my dad?” And like half of them put up their hand and he goes, “Yeah, you call him, he’ll talk to anyone.” And he still works as a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic, teaching people and he’s in his late 90s, or in his 80s.



[2:11:42] Eric Thorton: I think he’s 84 or 86 now.



[2:11:44] Ashley James: He talks about going skiing in the Alps or something. I mean that’s the diet, it keeps you healthy. So I have a listener, and if he’s listening, hello! I have a listener who is a career military man and he was going to be honorably discharged because his cardiac numbers were so bad. I mean, he looks physically fit, like a marine or Green Beret or something. But his cholesterol was so high that they were going to dismiss him and other numbers were so high, unresponsive to medication so high, and he would have lost his career in the military. And he heard my interview with Dr. Esselstyn, he got on the diet one month later, his numbers were normal.



[2:12:30] Eric Thorton: Yes, exactly. That’s what happens. They do the 21 day challenge. In 21 days, if you eat strict, they actually take people and they feed them, house them and everything for 21 days, take their blood before and after 21 days, it has dropped so dramatically. All these numbers, that they just sit there and go, “Oh, my God.” And guess what? They weren’t hungry, and they had great food. So, you know, it’s you do have to learn a new way of cooking. People go, “I can’t do it. I said, “Baloney. You learn these recipes. So you’re just learning more recipes.” You just stop cooking these recipes and you cook these ones. That’s all it is. It’s not hard. The hard part is like even Esselstyn will say or Fuhrman is the addiction to the oil and the meat.



[2:13:23] Ashley James: And if your addiction has a voice behind it, then come see Eric.



[2:13:27] Eric Thorton: Yes, because it is. It affects that. Because again, the predatory energy was to prevent you from continuing with your process. Well, it had me two feet in the grave, fortunately, I was still standing. Because it wanted to stop me from bringing my knowledge to the world. And I almost didn’t make it.



[2:13:57] Ashley James: But now looking back, I mean, you could either and this is the lesson for all of us, we can either give into the drama of what was me, this thing happened to me or is happening to, or has happened to me and my family, which creates an energy that brings in like energy, right? So it brings in thought forms and entities of other energy to kind of compound and exacerbate that drama. Or you can do what you’re doing and say that you’re grateful for the experience that you went through. Because now I mean, if you hadn’t had those heart issues, would you have found this diet? Would you have, you know, been this way that you’ve now helped your family and now you help your clients this way. So it’s a ripple effect. But you’re looking at the ripple effect with gratitude and seeing that. What’s the positive outcome? Tony Robbins, and I love him for this. He says what’s good about this? When things start to have drama, ask what’s good about this? And keep asking yourself, what’s good about this until you find the positive meaning behind that experience.



[2:15:05] Eric Thorton: Well, that was a major thing that happened to me when I had the heart attack. And I’m standing there and I went pale as a piece of paper. Because I have a connection to the guides, because I went totally pale. I mean, literally, all life drained right out of me. And I go, “Am I having a heart attack?” And they go, “Yup.” And I literally go, “Damn.” And then I called my daughter to get me some aspirin and I wasn’t upset about it. I didn’t allow myself to get upset. I knew what happened. I have the privilege. And I know it’s a privilege. I fully acknowledge it. I know, it’s okay, when you don’t have a body. And I know this is a tool. And I’m very grateful for this tool. But it’s not a problem for me not having that tool anymore. And so I’m laying there in the hospital room, and I could go to anxiety and worry and raise my blood pressure and raise my heart rate when I’m down to a 7% ejection rate on the left side of my heart. And that would just simply kill me. So I decided to honor the body and its process and what I knew I was going to be learning. And I was lying there in bed dying. I got congestive heart failure and double pneumonia, called the nurse and to give me some oxygen because I didn’t have enough oxygen anymore. I’m lying there dying, I’m whistling. And my wife goes, “That was arrogant.” I go, “Well, no. It wasn’t.” That wasn’t arrogant at all. That’s who I am. And I really felt that way. I didn’t even think about it. It was just like, “Oh, this is what I’m going through now. I wonder what I’m going to be learning later, this is going to be interesting.” And I thought you know, it’s a better attitude for the body. So I don’t stress it. And like, well, it all works good. And I lived. And then the guides had a chance to correct the heart. And which they did,  fortunately. We have great success with heart disease in the work we do. But anyway, I have learned so much from that is unbelievable to help my clients. I have learned things I would never have learned if I wasn’t forced into it from the heart attack. And they protected me during the whole process. And that’s what we have to turn these negativity immediately into the positivity. Like you were taught in that class with Tony and probably other people too, what’s the benefit. And that keeps you in, keeps you out of the drama, the human drama, and into the moment. You know, I wasn’t thinking about, I thought you know, I really don’t want to die yet. But I told everybody, I’ll be back to haunt you. And you’ll notice me because there’ll be a sense of humor. And they go, “Okay.” You know my daughter goes, “Oh, when you die? It’s gonna be hilarious.” I go, “You betcha.” Because I will make darn sure every painting is tipped, the TV flips out, the doors open and close. I’ll make sure that when you, because one of my favorite things is strawberries and blueberries. I’ll make sure you dump them on the floor. Just to let you know give some to dad. Because it is, it’s a natural thing for us to do. We do it all, we do it with every life. It’s just we’re taught not to. And we’re talking about Esselstyn and how the gift he’s giving the world in realizing that our cardiological system is designed to keep ill.


[2:19:02] Ashley James: Oh, you mean the mainstream medical system?



[2:19:04] Eric Thorton: Correct. It’s designed to keep us patients. And it’s not bad doctors. It’s what the system is teaching. You know, my cardiologist I had before, after the heart attack, before the whole food plant based, he had knowledge. But he had to operate to keep his license within the rules of the American Medical Association as a cardiologist. So he couldn’t tell me certain things. So when I did show up needing bypass surgery, he was the one doing the work. He was my cardiologist. And we come out of surgery. He goes, you need to have bypass surgery. Here’s the doctor to do it. He’s the best in the State. He’s blah, blah, blah. He couldn’t, and he was the best doctor in the state. And so he connected me up really well. My wife said to him, “But couldn’t we change that with diet?” And he said, “Yes, but it would take three years.” It had been three years since the heart attack.



[2:20:06] Ashley James: And he could have told you three years ago, but he didn’t.



[2:20:09] Eric Thorton: He didn’t. He didn’t. Because if he did, I could sue him. Because the American Medical Association had not recommended yet whole food plant based. He knew it. But he couldn’t recommend it. They can now, American Medical Association now recommends whole food plant based for heart disease. So he can say it now, but he couldn’t then. And I never went back to him. Because he was a good man. He really was. I don’t have a problem with him. But he left that little things slip that he should have let slip three years before because he knew me. He knew I was willing to do anything. And I could stick with things. But he didn’t.



[2:21:01] Ashley James: Yeah, I want all my doctors to be renegades just enough to be okay with telling me the truth. Right and they damn the potential consequences. Tell me the truth.



[2:21:13] Eric Thorton: Right. Or at least look for it themselves. So these doctors are now exposed, like the rest of us are to the various ideas of food and nutrition. And yet they’ve only had 20 minutes of nutrition in their becoming doctors, according to Esselstyn is 20 minutes. And it may be a whole class. Okay, great. But it’s like, okay, but this is out there. So why the resistance to study in this? They sit there and they go with the whole food plant based. Well, Dr… What’s the name? Who started The China Study? Dr… I forgot his name right now, he’s a PhD. He’s not an MD. So all the research is flawed. That’s literally what they say. But he brought in, he was a PhD at Stanford, he brought in the doctors to do the studies. He was just the orchestrator. He did a magnificent job. And it’s the only sound science on nutrition on the planet. And it’s evidence based nutrition. And the evidence was gathered by long term scientific studies. And that the guides have gone. That’s what the human bodies need. They were very specific about it, though. We used to live short lives, it didn’t matter. Now, we’re trying to live these long lives for humans. We’re trying to live past 50. In 1900, the average American, the statistics show, lived to be 47 years old. You couldn’t get year round fruits and vegetables then, now you can. And that’s actually doing that. And sanitation is why we live longer, because we’re getting the antioxidants year round now. So don’t mess with Mexico. Sorry, that was an editorial.



[2:23:13] Ashley James: No. I just thought when the tariffs were being threatened, I was like, “You know what, all these people with their avocado obsession, what’s gonna happen?” Like, don’t take away my avocados.



[2:23:26] Eric Thorton: You know, you gotta have the strawberry, but it is, those are antioxidants. And avocados are very good for you. You take them away, you’re eliminating some of what we need for year round food. And that is what increased our longevity. People have recently in the last 15 years, started doing all these other diets. And now, the average lifespan has dropped three years, literally, because of all these other diets.



[2:23:52] Ashley James: Like Atkins and keto.



[2:23:54] Eric Thorton: Right. High meat diets. If you go online, and you look at a vial of blood, someone that’s on the high fat, high protein diet – half the blood, it separates out, half of it is the fat they ate. That is like taking sandpaper to the inside of your arteries. But we don’t care about that. I do. And people that are doing that much, their bodies care about it. They’re just not aware of it until they have an event. Not fully aware of it. Constipation does develop to be a problem on those diets. And they do, they shock your body into losing weight. There’s no question about that for a while. And then it starts, the antioxidants go down, the vitamins and minerals go down. And then you start getting unhealthy. So anyway, it’s a sad process. And I have learned tremendously from the gift of my heart attack and it was a gift. There’s no question about it.



[2:24:59] Ashley James: Today, we got to learn from the gift of your heart attack as well. So thank you, thank you for sitting with us and sharing so much wonderful information and stories. The takeaway being that, if we have loved ones ashes, let them go so that we become healthier and that the soul of our ancestors can move on into a better place for our benefit, for their benefit. All the way around. Good for everyone, that we need to focus on gaining the positive learnings and being grateful in the now so that we can vibrate at that frequency that attracts like. So the more evolved, less coming from ego, coming from a more soul stance or our soul’s purpose, right? So we need to focus on gaining all the positive learnings and not attaching to the drama.



[2:26:01] Eric Thorton: Focus on the grace of every event like these public speakers talk about, you focus on positivity, there’s a real truth to that. You can’t be there all the time. So don’t punish yourself for not being able to do it. But the more you stay in that, the more your frequency is that and you’re going to draw less predatory or lower frequency energy. That’s how you stay safe.



[2:26:28] Ashley James: And then the final message would be, do a 21 day challenge and try the whole food plant based diet, no salt, sugar or oil. I interviewed chef AJ on the show and she’s a delight. Definitely, listeners can go back and search Chef AJ in the search box at www.learntruehealth.com to find that episode. And then Dr. Goldhamer who I remember the number of that one, it’s Episode 230. I remember that because my husband’s joke is when’s the best time to go to the dentist? 230 your tooth 30 you know. My husband’s full of dad jokes. But yeah, so Episode 230 is Dr. Goldhamer and he teaches this but Chef AJ and there’s some great YouTube videos of the two of them Chef AJ and Dr. Goldhamer together, Chef AJ teaches, I think she says over 100 or more videos where she teaches from start to finish how to cook delicious lunches and snacks and breakfasts and dinners using this whole foods plant based diet, no salt, sugar, or oil, and she also adds no alcohol as well. Which is literally a poison. So while you do your 21 day challenge, cut out alcohol as well, because it is considered sugar and a toxin to the liver. But that together in 21 days, creates like a whole new body, a whole new experience.



[2:28:00] Eric Thorton: It’s phenomenal. I’ve met them both personally, because I went to True North and went through the process down there. So that’s where all these doctors congregate, share information, they have labs there, they have rooms, I did 21 day fast with a 14 day refeed. So I spent a lot of time and I got all those lectures and saw Chef AJ and listen to her and all the other things. And they’re fascinating people, and they have the best intentions. They do have the intention, that’s a good intention. If people don’t want to hear it, they’re not going to hear it. So why bother? And that’s the way the guides are too, you know, I told you if they’re not going to do it, let’s see if we can modify it a little bit and get a little bit healthier. But the people aren’t going to listen. That’s it.



[2:28:14] Ashley James: Right.



[2:28:53] Eric Thorton: And Goldhamer is big on that. And Chef AJ went through the 21 day fast, and she has to remain very strict in order to keep weight off. She was like, very, very heavy at one time. And her body cannot tolerate even oils in avocados and nuts and things like that. Otherwise, she’ll balloon up again and she does it right away. And I don’t know why because I’ve never worked on her. So she has to be very strict. So actually, her recipes are actually really good. Only because she can’t cheat. And so they are they’re very good recipes. I have one of her cookbooks. I think I have two. She did one with Ramsey, Chef Ramsay and her and then I have one of hers too. And they’re very good. So I’m a cook too. So I always spice things up and things like that. But I use all these recipe books for their basic recipe. And then I’ll fine tune it. But her recipes are good and sound the way they are. So, but again, I like to mess with things a little.



[2:30:07] Ashley James: Yeah, you got a gorgeous kitchen for that.



[2:30:09] Eric Thorton: Yeah, I do. We have a commercial kitchen that allows us to do that and get those flavors and things like that. So, but it is. She does the demonstrations on hot plates. She doesn’t do it on a big fancy stove. She’s got it right there and she’s got your coils that you plug into the wall, you know, and just regular electric hot plate. So anyone can do it. You can go buy a hot plate if you need to.



[2:30:37] Ashley James: She gives some great advice. She says make all your seasonings in advance like, she buys all her seasoning, let’s say sage and garlic and ground onion and all the different kinds of spices. And she will get them in bulk for example. And then take these containers and make her blends for the next week. Sort of like someone would take their 20 supplement bottles or their 10 prescription bottles and make up a little holder. You know, she does that with her seasoning. So she knows she’s going to make chili on Thursday, she just grabs her bottle of pre made chili seasoning and just throws it in. And I thought that was really smart to kind of make her make her own blends. So there’s no salt in it, there’s no sugar in it, there’s no oil in it, I can’t believe how many spices out there are filled with crap. So she makes her own. And then she doesn’t have to… it takes less time for her to cook because she just grabs one thing and pours, dumps the whole pile of spice right there on the food while she’s cooking it.


[2:31:43] Eric Thorton: She’s a professional cook. So she has that all worked out for a certain flavor. Most people can’t do that. They don’t plan ahead that far. And they can’t think of what they’re doing, until they actually do it. She happens to be able to do that which is really nice where she buys a lot of her spices, give them a plug it’s called Savory Spice. And they do have a lot of blends that have salt or sugar in or something but they also have a lot to do not. And they have some very, very interesting spices. And they recommend you at True North Health to go to Savory Spice, that’s about 10 blocks from that facility. And they have their own blend that Savory Spice makes for True Health. And that you have on your table to just put spice on your food, herbal blend, and it’s a nice one that doesn’t have to be cooked to flavor your food. And they have several of those and Savory Spice is the place that they get all these and they’re organic and they’re you know the whole works and so you go in and you say I want whole food plant based, no sugar, oil or salt like, “Okay, we got this this this this and this.” And there’s some really amazing blends, they have Japanese blends, they got Korean, they got Middle Eastern, and you know they got all kinds from all over the world that have no sugar, oil or salt.



[2:33:04] Ashley James: Oh I have to check them out. They probably sell them online.



[2:33:10] Eric Thorton: I was thinking they were in Santa Rosa where True North Health is. And so it’s like, I lost their phone number so look it up online there’s one at Alderwood Mall.



2:33:22] Ashley James: So they are a chain.



[2:33:23] Eric Thorton: They’re a chain. I’ve been sitting here ordering. It’s like I get the privilege of now walking in. Because you go in it’s like this place smells good. So anyway, I found that out I go, “Okay, why can’t you tell me that sooner, guys?”



[2:33:45] Ashley James: You give talks in Redmond. So local people are listening can check out your website and get on your newsletter at www.ericthorton.com and come to your free lectures. I know the next one’s coming up in a few weeks.



[2:33:58] Eric Thorton: And I think you said you were going to record it, maybe?



[2:34:00] Ashley James: We’re going to do our best.



[2:34:01] Eric Thorton: Okay. So we might be able to put the whole lecture or discussion, I have a more open discussion. So it’s more interesting. I think lectures can get a little boring.



[2:34:14] Ashley James: Well, not you. I can’t imagine you being boring. But we’ll do our best to record it. Thank you so much for sitting with us.



[2:34:21] Eric Thorton: Thank you.



[2:34:21] Ashley James: And teaching, this has been a lot of fun. I love hearing how all the listeners have been reaching out to you and working with you and getting great results, and those who listen are enjoying our interviews.



[2:34:37] Eric Thorton: I’ve gotten quite a few calls, even long distance. Like I told you earlier had a guy today, the call from Saudi Arabia that’s doesn’t wanna get in trouble in Saudi Arabia. So he’s going to either the UK in August, so he wants an appointment in August and he listened to you. That was the latest podcast. So that was Sunday. So I think he listened Monday and he called yesterday. So I get quite a bit of that and it’s really fun to help your clients.



[2:35:04] Ashley James: Yeah, that’s what I’m all about. Let’s help all the listeners to get true health.



[2:35:10] Eric Thorton: Yeah. Happy to help.



[2:35:13] Ashley James: Awesome.





Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition and how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity? Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business, support people in their success? Do you love helping people?


You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach. I highly recommend checking out The Institute for Integrative Nutrition.


I just spent the last year in their health coaching certification program and it really blew me away. It was so amazing. I learned over a hundred dietary theories. I learned all about nutrition, but from a standpoint of how we can help people to shift their lives and shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health, I definitely recommend you check them out.


You can Google, Institute for Integrative Nutrition or IIN and give them a call or you can go to www.learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training to check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in.


Be sure to mention my name Ashley James and the Learn True Health Podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible.


I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program and I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information. We need more health coaches. In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field. So many health coaches are. getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic office, doctors offices.you can work in hospitals, you can work online through Skype and help people around the world. you can become an author. You can go into the school system and help your local schools shift their programs to help children be healthier. you can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success and their health goals.


There’s so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach.


So check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Mention my name, get the best deal. Give them a call and they;ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you.


Classes are starting soon. The next round of classes are starting at the end of the month. So you’re gonna wanna call them now and check it out.


And if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.



Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price?


For high quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to www.takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price.


That’s www.takeyoursupplements.com


Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.


Get Connected With Eric Thorton!

Official Website



Recommended Reading by Eric Thorton

Educating the Souls, Spiritual Healing and our Eternal Psychology


Recommended Links:

Episode 327 – Spiritual Healing

Episode 335 – Energetic Boundaries

Episode 336 – Energetic Boundaries (Part II)

Episode 359 – Lives Of Discovery

Join the Learn True Health Community & Support Us on Patreon

Order High-Quality Supplements

Join Our Facebook Community Group

Visit Our YouTube Channel

1 2 3 128