Dr. Eric Zielinski And Ashley James 



  • Most diseases are preventable with weight loss.
  • Inflammation – How your diet and lifestyle affect your brain and body.
  • Essential oils are not enough.
  • Bioactive compounds.
  • How dangerous the ketogenic diet is.
  • Inhaling, ingesting, or topically – How should I use essential oils?
  • Does essential oil cause toxicity?
  • Some essential oil recipes.
  • Dr. Eric Zielinski’s top three essential oils

Hello, true health seeker!

Welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health Podcast. I’ve got an awesome interview for you today. But first, before we jump into it, I’m really excited to share three pieces of news with you. Awesome information, so just listen to the next few minutes and I will jump into the interview.

The first piece of news is my favorite magnesium soak, if you’ve listened to the show for a while, you’ve heard me talk about it. You probably heard Kristen Bowen, the founder of Living the Good Life Naturally. The website is www.livingthegoodlifenaturally.com and the coupon code is LTH. She’s hosting this week a special just for Learn True Health listeners. I pulled the listeners in the Facebook group. So if you’re not in the Facebook group, come join us. Go to Facebook and search Learn True Health or you can go www.learntruehealth.com/group and it will redirect you to the group. But I pulled the listeners and asked them because Kristen gave me a choice. She said, “Listen, I’d love to throw on a summer sale for the Learn True Health listeners.” And she offered us either a free jar of the magnesium muscle cream or a free jar of acerola cherry powder. Now, acerola cherry powder, I love it. It is a vitamin C powder, but it’s whole food plant-based vitamin C powder. So it actually has all the other cofactors. It tastes really good. Listeners have been noticing that their skin gets healthier, that they’re faster from cuts, that their bleeding gums go away. You know, if you brush your teeth and you have a bit of bleeding gums, that’s a vitamin C deficiency. And so, lots of listeners have said they really enjoy it. Some people find that it helps them with their parasite protocols to rid their body of parasites, they add it to their parasite protocol and they find that it kicks it up and really helps.

So I pulled the listeners, and you guys decided that you wanted a free jar of the muscle cream. People were raving about it in the Facebook group. They said it really helped to lessen the tension in muscles. They’d rub it on sore, tight muscles and they noticed that the muscle relaxed because it delivered that magnesium straight to the localized area. So, that’s really cool. So, when you order a jug of the magnesium soak from www.livingthegoodlifenaturally.com, it is gonna automatically add a free jar and then they’re gonna give you free shipping for the jar as well. All you have to do is buy the jug, you’re still gonna receive 10% off as part of the Learn True Health code. So, just go to www.livingthegoodlifenaturally.com, click on their magnesium section and grab that jug of magnesium soak, they’ll add the magnesium muscle cream for free, and that magnesium soak is amazing. I’ve shared about it before on the show and I’ve shared about it several times in the Facebook group. We actually have a post with over 200 different comments of people sharing their experience about this magnesium soak. It has been life-changing for our family, our young son was always fighting sleep until we started adding it to his bath and now, he is calmer and wants to go to sleep at night. So, we also have noticed that we felt better rested at night, we slept deeper, and it also felt like my muscle tension went away because I’m holding a lot of stress in my shoulders and my back. So, the magnesium soak is amazing and then the magnesium muscle cream is awesome for those local areas and that’s gonna come for free, and that’s this week only.

If you have any friends who you know are magnesium deficient, and there’s over 200 symptoms of magnesium deficiency. But the common ones are pain, stiffness, sore muscles, sleep problems, twitching or spasms or cramps, restless legs is a really big one – that people notice they get a lot of relief from doing the magnesium soak. The instructions come with the jug when you buy it. It explains exactly how to soak in it to maximize your results and of course, you can go to www.learntruehealth.com and in the search box, search “magnesium” and listen to my episodes with Kristen, she shares her story. She actually was 70 pounds. I think she was 78 or 79 pounds in a wheelchair and having 30 seizures a day. That’s how sick she was and the magnesium soak is the key thing. She was doing a lot of stuff to get her health back, but that was they key thing that helped her to recover from her seizures and get herself back online. And so that’s why she made it a business. She started out as a customer and then she ended up creating the business to make sure that she could deliver not only to herself and her family, but to everyone that she came in contact with. The highest quality, purest form of concentrated magnesium with all the co-factors in it. So our skin, our body actually absorbs it readily and you can prove it with blood test. So she talks all about that in our interview, so definitely go back and check that out.

So, www.livingthegoodlifenaturally.com coupon code LTH. Grab your free jar of the magnesium muscle cream when you buy a jug of the magnesium soak this week only. So, that’s news number 1.

News number 2 is the Institute for Integrative Nutrition and I’ve saved the best for last by the way so, keep listening. The IIN is hosting a fantastic sale. So if you’ve been thinking about becoming a health coach like me and you’d love to take their online training, it’s designed for busy people, specifically Joshua Rosenthal designed the course for busy stay at home moms or busy career moms basically the busiest people on the world. So, anyone can take it and men also take it as well, not to exclude anyone. But if you’re busy in life, yes you can take this program. It’s designed for you to be able to do it, you know, you can do it in 20-minute increments, you can do it a little every day and a lot of it is audios and videos. Not a ton of reading because it’s easier to consume that content and people learn better through listening and through watching. There is reading that you can do, but my learning style is listening. I read very little and I listen to everything and that really helped me. So, some people learn better through reading and they provide everything written as well. So, they hit all of the learning style. So, if you’re concerned like you want to become a health coach, but you’re concern that you won’t learn as well as others because maybe you learn better at watching and engaging, they actually have us engage, watch, listen, read. You can learn in these different ways. So, they make sure they hit all the learning styles. I love their program, it was life-changing for me to go through it.

Now, they have their program and a year long program, they also offer a condensed 6-month program for people who want to be full-time students. This week only for the Learn True Health listeners, they’re offering 25% off their payment plan and completely zero down. Meaning, you can call them, you sign up and for 30 days you are not paying them, and if you don’t like it, then just call them up and say, “Hey you know, it wasn’t for me.” And there’s no risk to you, so you could join IIN right now and start taking their training, and that is so cool. So, there’s no risk. You can jump right in. It’s really exciting news actually. And the first 35 people that join and take advantage of this sale right now, they’re going to gift you it’s worth almost $1,000. They’re gonna gift you one of their advanced courses. The advance course which I really want to take this course. It teaches you how to become a successful author and create and publish your own dream book.

So, this is wonderful news. You can go ahead and Google “IIN” to get their phone number. Give them a call, tell them that Ashley James James from the Learn True Health podcast sent you so that you will get this special. I definitely recommend them. I’m a big fan of IIN. And hey, if you do join please reach out to me. You can email me, [email protected] or you can find me on Facebook in the Learn True Health Facebook group and please reach out to me. I love mentoring my fellow health coaches, and if you do join and you want help with promoting your business or growing your business, becoming a successful health coach and helping other people, I would love to help you. So, I’m here as a resource for you. Take advantage of IIN sale right now.

All right. Now, we’re almost done.

News piece number 3 and you’re gonna jump right in to the interview. Thank you for hanging on. I know this is a long promotional spiel. I get it. I’m really excited to share all these info I didn’t want you to miss out on these sales. So here’s the thing, this doesn’t have to do with health, but it does have to do with helping to support the Learn True Health podcast. So my husband and I have this wonderful 4-year old son, and if you don’t know my story, I was infertile since I was 19 years old. I was told I would never have kids and I used natural medicine to conceive naturally and to have a healthy boy. And now he’s 4 years old and he’s wonderful and it’s all from natural medicine. We would’ve never had him had we not found natural medicine. So that’s one of the reasons why I do this podcast because it gave us our son. We’ve been helping him learn how to read and in doing so, I discovered a company that I am in love with. It is called Usborne Books & More and they hire child education and development specialist and these wonderful people work alongside designers and illustrators to create these beautiful books that engage children and make them want to learn. In fact my son, and we do very little screen time. We offered him the choice of playing with his Usborne Books & More stuff or watching some TV and he chose to play with his activity book. And I was like, “Yes! This is so awesome.” It has increased his confidence in reading. I love it. I’m really in love with this stuff.

They have over 2,000 different kinds of books to choose from. It’s so not what a library has and we’ve been going to the library since he could sit on our laps as we read him night time stories. So, it’s completely different stuff. So if you have any kids in your life at all, they develop special books for infants, toddlers, school aged children, teenagers, they even have some really fun stuff for adults as well like adult coloring books. It’s all based on making reading fun and engaging and making learning fun. So, if you have kids or grandkids or nieces or nephews, I’d love for you to join my Facebook party. We’re hosting it next Sunday evening and it starts next Sunday evening, so you just join it and then you watch it at your convenience. I’m gonna post some videos and I’m going to go live in that Facebook group and share my favorite Usborne Books & More books and answer any questions you have. Most of these books by the way are under $9.00, they’re really well-priced. But anything you do purchase, the proceeds will go to support the Learn True Health podcast. It’s going to help pay for the transcriptions, help pay for our hosting, help pay for my assistant that helps me stay on top of everything and get these great guests. So, if you love the show and you have children in your life and you want to support them and increase their love of learning and love of reading, how you do this is you go to their website www.kidsbook.party. There’s two buttons there, it’s super easy. Either click on the Join the Party button or you click on the Shop Now button.

If you have questions, please reach out to me. I’d love to help you.

Thank you so much for being a listener.

Thank you so much for sticking around and hearing all the specials. I hope you take advantage of them. I hope you join my Usborne Books & More Facebook party. Even if you just come to support me in my little launch that I’m doing on Sunday, I’d love to see you there. And if you have anything at all that you guys need, please reach out to me, come join the Facebook group and ask questions. It’s such an active wonderful community that loves to help each other and I’d love to see you there.

Enjoy today’s interview.


Intro: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James James. This is episode 363.


0:13:40.7 Ashley James: I am so excited to have back on the show with us, Dr. Eric Zielinski who is the leading expert in essential oils. He was originally back on our show in episode 302 and now, he’s come back to teach us about his new book “The Essential Oils Diet.” I know you talked a little bit about it in our first interview and it was so intriguing because there’s so much controversy around ingesting oils and a lot of concern that some essential oil companies are not of good quality and some essential oils would be contraindicated to ingest. And so, because you are a doctor and you really know your stuff, you’ve been able to create the Essential Oils Diet book helping people to understand how they can incorporate these healing extracts, these healing essences of plants to help our body. Not only to detox, lose weight, to have more energy, to help the body come back into balance. I’m very excited to learn more about the essential oils diet today. Welcome to the show.


0:14:57.1 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Well, thank you for having me back. I’ll take that as a sign that I didn’t bummed the first interview, I didn’t scare you or your listeners away and your awesome blog followers. I love you. I really do, Ash. I really appreciate all that you do and your awesome questions and your show. I’m really excited about sharing this for a number of reasons because we’ve gotten a lot of slack for this, by the way. And when you start talking about essential oils, for sure you’re putting yourself out on the chopping block and then when you start going against conventional recommendations – yes you can consume them, but the right way. You really get out there, so we’ve been flogged 40 lashes minus one a couple of times already online and so I’d love to kind of set the record straight and help people.


0:15:41.0 Ashley James: Absolutely. I’m definitely excited to dive in to all that. My personal story of essential oils that I’ve shared on the show before is when I was a teenager. I was about 15 and I was really sick. I stayed home from my summer job at an all natural spa that happen to also sell essential oils and the owner who was an aesthetician and really, really into essential oils. She gave my mom a bottle of lavender and peppermint and sent her home to take care of me. I must have picked up some stomach flu basically. I had a fever, I was throwing up, I felt so nauseous and so sick and I’m lying there in bed just feeling miserable and my mom comes in and she was told to take the lavender and make it with some carrier oil. The only thing we had in the house was olive oil, so she put a couple of drops of lavender and some olive oil and she was told to rub it on my chest and my tummy and she was told to take one drop of peppermint oil put it in some hot water and let me sip it, and I did that. I sipped the peppermint and she put the lavender oil on my chest and tummy and the moment I started I started sipping that peppermint, I was also told to inhale the peppermint as I sip it. But the moment I sipped it, the nausea went away, I lay back down, I fell asleep – I slept for a really long time and when I woke up, my fever broke in and I was no longer sick. That was my introduction to the power or essential oils. And so, I was just a raving fan and I consumed all the books and all the information I could. I just loved it. Because of how much I loved essential oils, I became the number one salesperson at the spa because every person that walked through the door I wanted to tell them about how great essential oils were. So they are, they’re wonderful, but we have to learn how to use them correctly.

And so, of course you’ve created all these resources online and now on your books to help people to do just that. And what I really like about your approach is that you don’t align yourself with any one company because you want to just teach people how to use them and how to find the right company for them or the right brand for them. I guess people might say if you have aligned yourself with a brand, then maybe they would say you’re bias in some ways. So, you’re just here to educate us which is wonderful

I’d like to know what inspired you to write The Essential Oils Diet?


0:18:26.3 Dr. Eric Zielinski: You know Ashley James, my first book published last year, “The Healing Power of Essential Oils” it was an instant best-seller. It actually flew up the shelves in a way that no one really was expecting because no one was working on essential oil books at the scale that this was published by a major publisher. My publisher is Penguin Random House, and you haven’t seen a major publisher pick up a book on aromatherapy in quite a while like this. Since then, it’s become an international best-seller in seven different languages in multiple continents and countries. And so what happened was, my publisher being in the business of selling books came up to me and like, “Hey, what’s the next book?” And I’m like, “Well, they want a second.” And you know, my wife called some Irish twins, like here I am we just kind of delivered birth to this baby which takes a lot of time and effort and now you wanted me to get pregnant again? Like, hold on.

But anyway, I did what most do. I dealt with pregnant amnesia and I’m like, okay let’s do it again. And so, I did some soul searching. I did some data research and I contacted our community. We have a pretty thriving group on Facebook, you know, just ways that we reach out to the followers that we have online and I started asking, “What do you all need?” You already know how to use essential oils. What is it that you want help with? In my though was the main diseases in the world – cancer, autoimmunity, diabetes. So I just started surveying people and asking people and ultimately, yes people did have those issues, but that happened was a light bulb went up in my mind. When I started connecting the dots I realized, you know what a commonality is between all of these diseases? It’s weight gain, obesity. Having that inflammatory response, never having a chance to soothe in someone’s body because of what they’re doing to their lifestyle, because of the foods of that they’re eating, the products that they’re putting on their skin.

And so, my thought was this, the biggest bank for someone’s buck is to lose weight. If there’s one thing everyone on the planet can do, if someone is trying to prevent disease and treat disease, you can’t do that if you’re overweight. And the thing is that obesity, not just obesity but even just being 10 pounds overweight is so fundamental to every fundamental to every aspect of your health. It’s like you really can’t truly fight cancer if your body’s metabolism is burdened with excess fat. You can’t really prevent autoimmune conditions or anything. And then of course you think about diabetes and pre-diabetes, and musculoskeletal issues – everything keep going back to weight. And then obviously the statistics show were getting fatter as a group all around the world. And then kids – this what really got me. Kids, never before has a life expectancy been predicted to be less than their parents and primarily it’s because of obesity.

At the end of the day if we were to pinpoint one factor that is attributed to all chronic disease right now that is 100% preventable, and that’s something I really stress that it’s preventable, regardless of hormonal imbalance, regardless of thyroid conditions, and we talked about that in the book and that’s become a scapegoat – regardless of metabolism, it’s weight loss. And that’s something that we actively have an ability to control.


0:22:04.6 Ashley James: And some people may not feel or look like they’re overweight, but we’ve heard of people who are skinny but have fat on the inside and skinny on the outside. So, when they do scans of their body, I mean they might be a size 10 or size 8 and they think, “I’m good. I don’t have fat to lose.” And I’m not saying that people who are skinny should become anorexic or unhealthy, but there’s something where this fat can accumulate in the organs and around the organs, and that fat is actually more dangerous than the fat on their thighs, for example.


0:22:49.0 Dr. Eric Zielinski: You know, the underlying discussion you’re talking about highlights the notion of fatty liver. I was just featured on a documentary regarding that. That is non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, it’s affecting upwards up to 25% of all Americans. That’s 100 million Americans are being affected by fatty liver and non-alcoholic because we know that alcoholism has a direct impact on the liver and develops fatty liver which is almost insurmountable among the symptoms. And a lot of people, we could blame candida, stress – like what are these symptoms coming from? And it’s hard, it’s really hard to determine, like, why do you feel the way you do? Where the brain fog come from? Why the sluggish libido out of nowhere? Why can’t you sleep anymore? The indigestion and the anger, the anxiety – all these things that just seem to happen and then you go online, this gets really confusing, by the way. You go online, you type up like, “Why am I feeling this way?” And you start researching and now, people are becoming hypochondriacs, self-diagnosing themselves with everything. Now everyone has leaky gut, everyone has candida overgrowth, everyone has this, everyone has that, and so people are freaked out.

Rightfully so, because you’re sick and you don’t know why. And so, your can’t help you because your doctor hasn’t been trained in advanced diagnostic procedures to really figure out what’s wrong with you. And a lot of folks are suffering from fatty liver, and they don’t even realize it because of lack of exercise, their diet, and just because their body cannot process this amount of fat that they’re consuming. So, there are some valid concerns with that in relation to the other organ issues that people are dealing with.

I’m really glad you mentioned that because people aren’t talking enough about fatty liver and the testing of fatty liver isn’t too difficult. A good diagnostician and a functional medicine doctor will know what to do. But here’s the problem, it’s not on most medical doctors radars. They’re not like thinking, “Oh, you have all these symptoms, maybe it’s fatty liver.” They’re not thinking that, what they think is, “Oh, you’re depressed. Okay, here’s an antidepressant.” “Oh, you’re dealing with nausea, well here’s something to help with your stomach.” “Oh, you can’t sleep, here’s Ambien.” And that’s the problem, is when we’re treating symptoms and we’re not looking at why? You shouldn’t be feeling this way. You’re 45, 50, or 60 years old – you really shouldn’t be going through this and it might be fatty liver.


0:25:41.1 Ashley James: I just interviewed a guy on nootropics. These herbs and supplements that all help the brain to have less inflammation, to work better, to have a balanced serotonin and GABA and dopamine and all those good chemicals. And we talked about inflammation, and it’s amazing just inflammation alone can cause so many issues, and then again we’re left treating symptoms and we think that we’re treating the root cause, but the root cause is inflammation and what’s causing the inflammation? We have to back up, so brain fog is one of the symptoms of inflammation or even being tired, or stiff joints, or even just being cranky, or just feeling off and not being to point your finger on it, but just feeling off. That kind of inflammation can affect the dopamine or serotonin and you just end up feeling a little off and you can’t figure out why or you can feel a lot off and be really cranky and the root cause is coming back to seeing that it’s the systemic inflammation. And what’s causing inflammation and we got to go deeper, and it’s that stress, lifestyle, the foods were eating, the foods we’re not eating. But we have to stop it, we have to have that break state where we can help the body to stop the inflammation. Even taking NSAIDS like Advil for headache, I thought this was really interesting that we think it’s an anti-inflammatory as a drug, but it inhibits our own natural body’s mechanism to fight inflammation. So, by taking it we maybe have a temporary artificial decrease in inflammation from the NSAID, but then we end up having this much more inflammation after it wears off because now our body’s ability to handle inflammation has been dampened.


0:27:53.3 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Writing this book, we’re talking about a diet book. Okay, how many more diet books can we have? We’re talking about essential oils, like what does that mean? Can you love an essential oil? The name of the book and all of these things, I was trying to wrap it all together in a package that would really educate and empower people.

Inflammation was a big part of my first book and it kind of blend into the next book and led into a deeper discussion of what really is inflammation and what is the proper way of viewing inflammation? I think it’s important for us to realize that inflammation isn’t bad. Inflammation is a God given response to our body to heal. So, if you cut yourself in the kitchen, if you’re like me in the kitchen and I have a tendency to be quick in the kitchen, and I need to get slower, I need to use my cutting board. I’m the guy with a mango on my hand with my knife cutting it. [Laughter] So what happens when you cut your finger? You cut your finger and you stop, whatever, you hurt yourself. The body’s natural healing mechanism starts. First of all, pain, and that’s a good thing. Pain is actually a good sign, because if you don’t hurt yourself, you’re not gonna realize there’s damage, you could end up hurting and re-injuring that same part of your body which can cause permanent damage. So pain is a good thing, and then blood rushes into that area and it starts getting hot.

What are the cardinal signs of inflammation? Pain, blood rushing, heat, swelling, loss of function. These are not bad things, but this is again the body’s response to heal. The problem is we are not designed and we shouldn’t be in a constant state of inflammation and that’s it. Again, if you cut your finger over and over and over again, thank God for bandaids, but if you’re gonna cut yourself in the same spot, non-stop, that’s gonna cause significant problems. And you think, “Yeah, okay. Dr. Eric Zielinski that’s stupid simple. Are you saving that?” Of course I’m not gonna cut myself on the same area or my finger all day long every day. That’s exactly what we’re doing to our bodies, by this low dose – this low-grade inflammatory response from the products that we put on our skin to the air that we’re breathing, the water that we’re drinking, the food that we’re eating, the thoughts that we have. You know, stress isn’t bad. Even stress is a good thing, but we’re not supposed to be. chronically stressed. Exercising and tearing your muscles and “stressing” your muscles, but you can’t live at the gym. You got to take a break, a day or two off between you go back.

And so, when you think of it in these terms, the light bulb went up in my mind. “What then is causing this low-grade inflammatory response that I can’t directly feel that is happening at the cellular level?” A lot of people are just into that, I actually can feel more inflamed now than I used to. You could test it, you can look at your C-reactive protein levels. You could see your inflammatory levels, it could be tested and the local lab down the street. The stuff is kind of cheap, $50 to $60.

You’ll see, your eyes get a little puffy, I mean you kind of get puffy, like there’s puffiness. So you’ll wonder why can’t you fit in your pants? Well, that’s maybe inflammation. You’ll see your brain can’t function as well. You’ll be on the edge. Like for me, inflammation manifest through anxiety, a little bit of stress – my body is not able to completely deal with what I’m going through at that time, even if it’s just a little something simple happens at work and it sets me off. That’s a sign of inflammation. That’s a sign that my body is not being able to respond properly to an insult, and that’s it.

And guess, why is this even important? Because when something happens, like you’re exposed to a virus and you’re exposed to bacteria or you’re exposed to something else, let’s say cancer starts to slowly develop – your body’s metabolism cannot properly keep you healthy because it’s barely keeping you alive, and that’s why metabolism is not a scapegoat for weight gain and research has shown this. And even in the Mayo Clinic and UK’s National Services, they’ve gone to record that says, “Hey, a small metabolism is not and has not been linked to weight gain. In fact, overweight people have a faster metabolism because their metabolism is on overdrive just to keep them alive because they’re so overweight.”

So, when you have this low dose inflammatory response happening throughout the day all day long, no wonder you’re dealing with so many different symptoms because your body is just barely in survival mode.


0:32:55.2 Ashley James: Fascinating. I have heard that for longevity you actually want a slower metabolism because we only have so many cells. The theory is we only have so many cell replicas that the body’s gonna make and so once we ran out, we ran out. And that was the idea that this part of the DNA that gets shorter and shorter showing that  they can see someone age over time. So, you really don’t want your cells to be damaged enough to turnover and create new cells quickly and it gets damaged again and it has to turnover quickly. We want to have a slower metabolism and that we want the whole body to just be healthy and not have damage at the cellular level and none of the inflammation, unless we need it to repair and be able to survive on less calories that are more nutrient dense. The blue zones, older people that when they live in those areas and they eat the way people eat to live to be 100. They’re actually eating less than 1400 calories a day, but it’s more nutrient dense food and their metabolisms are slower and they definitely don’t have inflammation.

So that’s really interesting. This idea that we shouldn’t blame our thyroid or metabolism and then use that as a scapegoat to not take action. But that the symptoms that we might be experiencing could definitely be caused by inflammation. This is such a huge topic. How do we incorporate essential oils into our diet to decrease inflammation?


0:34:46.4 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Before we even touch on essential oils, it’s the lifestyle and it’s something that we try people with. You could use essential oils all day long, but if you are on this fast food lifestyle and if you’re eating a diet depleted of nutrition, it’s like one step forward three steps back. And that’s what we get and I’ve got to say, I’ve been at the largest essential oil company conventions and I’ve signed books at retailers and things and I’ve been very much shocked. It’s not a judgement call, please don’t be emailing me hate mail. I was shocked to see so many over weight people at these conventions, clinically obese, morbidly obese, and this is supposed to be a health conference of health advocates and people that want to sell essential oils to teach you how to be healthy. And so, you compare that to these other conferences I’ve been to that are “health conferences” and everyone kind of looks relatively healthy. But I have never seen such a disparity in health before going to an essential oil conference, because a lot of people, all they do is just essential oils. They eat the same junk, they are not exercising, and they use essential oils to help them get through, and that is a concern that I have in the aromatherapy industry. Because I’m not hearing enough from an aromatherapist and essential oil distributors really talking about wholeness and holistic care. Because the body cannot even respond to the essential oil if it’s in such a toxic state and if its metabolism is compromised by what we’re doing.

So, that what’s in the book. We cover this concept of bioactivity and why and how to consume food that are rich in bioactive compounds. When you look at bioactivity, these are the plan-based chemicals that are non-nutritive. You don’t need these to live. You need fats, carbs, calories, and proteins, vitamins and minerals to live or you’re gonna die due to deficiency. But researchers have shown that a diet replete in bioactive components will lead to suboptimal health, so you’ll never really be healthy and this is my biggest issue with the fad diets out there; low carb, high fat diets. It’s completely focused on quantity not quality of food at the core.

What are the list of bioactive compounds?

Fiber. It is key. Eating a good amount of fiber can actually replace your probiotic supplement because fiber is prebiotics. They feed the probiotics. A lot of people are literally wasting money, and research has shown that consuming probiotic supplements actually cause drugs like immunotherapy to be less effective. I mean, throw it out there, a lot of people are on drugs and we’re trying to teach integrative healthcare. So, fiber is key to have good bowel function.

Antioxidants. Those aren’t nutrition like polyphenols. Over 8,000 different plant-based chemicals known as polyphenols that are rich in antioxidants. What about carotenoids, the pigments that you get in your oranges and your g rapefruits, and your peppers. The reds, oranges, yellows – these are foods that are good, healthy, immune-boosting components and essential oils. See, that’s what really all pulled it together because essential oils are bioactive compounds. They’re non-nutrition, non-nutritive substances in plants that give you robust health.

So, the whole purpose of the book is too get people back to quality not quantity. If you really wanna boost your health profile, consider using essential oils in your food in addition to the topical remedies that we have to soothe inflammation and balance blood sugar. I mean flat out, this will blow people’s minds like using essential oils can actually help you burn fat. Research have shown inhaling grapefruit and inhaling lime will stimulate lipolysis, proven and we’ve seen it. It’s not gonna help you 50 lose 50 pounds in a week, but for a lot of people they’re out of crocks, a lot of people have plateaued, a lot people are just hitting a wall. Especially for those dieters out there who have gone through the different plans and they’re back to where they’re at, that yo yo effect. Maybe essential oils might be that thing to help you over that hump to get you that next level. And that’s what really we’re trying to help people. To put things into perspective when it comes to just the whole essential oil discussion.


0:39:30.3 Ashley James: Yeah, the idea that there’s a thousand different nutrients in broccoli, those nutrients that help our body fight cancer, detox, create healthy cells. We can’t get that eating the standard American diet and we definitely can’t get it in a pill and I am a believer in supplements. Supplements changed my life because I did have a nutrient deficiency. They really changed my life and I have their place but you cannot ought supplement a bad diet and you can’t ought exercise a bad diet.


0:40:06.9 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Yes.


0:40:10.6 Ashley James: Diet is first and we need to look at that and I love that you’re pointing out stop counting calories and start counting nutrients, because the most nutrient dense foods are actually low in calories.


0:40:24.4 Dr. Eric Zielinski: That’s why nutrition labels are useless because they’re not telling you how many antioxidants are on the food. Beside fiber, that is probably the most valuable thing on the nutrition label next to the ingredients. You don’t know. Just because it has “Vitamin C” doesn’t really mean anything. It’s just one component, just one little aspect of immune boosting quality in food, but it really doesn’t matter. I would even say it doesn’t even matter – the caloric intake. Because here’s the problem with looking at calories, there is no way to determine your caloric need on a daily basis. To say you need to be within this range is ludacris because it all depends on the exact moment and what your body needs and that depends on your activity level, how much you slept, how much stress you’re dealing with, that depends on whether you’re fighting some kind of illness or virus, or you’re sick, or you’re on drugs like narcotics, drinking alcohol, smoking, are you on pharmaceuticals?

To determine someone’s caloric need on a daily basis is impossible, and so that’s where you mentioned the blue zones, in Okinawa they have a proverb that says, “Hey, stop eating when you’re 70 – 80% full.” And we talk about that in the book, we actually cover the blue zones a lot, because you don’t know, they’re not counting calories. They have no idea, they don’t even know the concept of what a calorie is. They’re just eating, and they’re eating good nutritious food that’s available in the land and most of it by the way is plant-based, and that’s interesting when you really think about it. What are they doing? They’re not gorging, and just like a dog – you give the dog food in a bowl that’s a certain size, the dog will eat until the bowl is gone. That’s kind of how dogs are really wired. Humans are wired the same way. Like the clean plate club is pretty much the most dangerous things in the planet, but that’s learned. You don’t see that as a baby. Like my kids, “I’m done.” You could put cake, you could put straight up sugar on their plate and my kids are like, “I’m done.” Like my baby, my 2, 3 year old – I see this in my kid, but it’s later, “I’m gonna be a part of the clean plate club.” And that’s something like a learned behavior, we got to unlearn that and get back like, “Okay, I’m happy. My tummy is good.”

That’s another thing, how do you know when you’re tummy is good when you’re overweight? Your leptin and ghrelin, the hormones that tell you when you’re full are out of balance, and that’s a concern with over weight obese people – is they’re leptin resistant. They don’t feel full. So they’re having three, four plates of food at the buffet and they’re like, “I want more. I need more.” And next thing you know they’re gorging, they’re loosening up their buttons on their belts and all the things on their pants just fit another plate in. That’s real and I know what that’s like because I experienced that in my own right. I never became obese, but I gained weight at one point and I had to enlarge all my pants and I call them fat pants. I have my fat pants story, I actually talked about that on my podcast a few couple of months ago.

I remember what that was like and never feeling truly satisfied with my food, regardless of what I ate. That’s a dangerous place to be, but you have to train yourself and we cover that. Little strategies. These are little strategies. How do you know when you’re full? Well, you’ll start to feel your tummy slowly distended and remember it takes 15, 20 minutes or so for your body to even react and respond to the food that you’re eating now. So, the stomach has to distend a little bit, give it some time, eat slower. When your food doesn’t taste as good, typically speaking the last bite of cake isn’t as good as the first bite of cake, think about that. Like, “Okay, I’m done.” And also you start to feel a little sluggish, you shouldn’t be tired after eating a meal. That’s a big sign that you overate, a big sign because your body is just like, “Okay, I’m overloaded. Stop. I gotta manage this stuff.” And now metabolism just gets compromised and over burden.


0:44:48.0 Ashley James: You mentioned that the last bite not tasting as good as the first. I would say that if we are noticing that, we’re actually following the dopamine high that were caught in the pleasure trap of wanting those highly palatable foods with salt, sugar, and oil that stimulate those brain chemicals. The same brain chemicals are stimulated if one were to do street drugs like cocaine, that there are those parts of the brain that go, “Woah, this is amazing. I have to have more.” And that happens when we go to Dairy Queen and have that piece of cake and have some kind of fatty food. I’ve done the ketogenic diet a few times in my past. I’ve done pretty much every diet. I’ve experimented. I love learning and experiencing things first hand, but man I have learned so much and the ketogenic diet is incredibly dangerous. In fact it harmed my husband’s kidneys, it damaged my liver. It took as a year of eating plant based to recover and we had to do blood work and everything, but it took us a year to recover from the damage it did. And yet when were doing the ketogenic diet, I want to say the more like Atkin’s way. Either people think the ketogenic diet is a bunch of ghee or butter or cheese on top of a steak, and there’s virtually no vegetables, all these thousands of phytonutrients and antioxidants and all the fiber – they don’t eat that. They just go for the steak and the butter, the fat, and the coffee, and whatever.

So many people are going down that rabbit hole because they’re hearing that the ketogenic diet is really good for weight loss. Yeah, you could lose 10 or 20 pounds on any diet because it’s mixing it up, but what the damage you’re doing, it’s gonna last years and I’d found that the hard way. I’ve interviewed some people that talked about this idea of doing a plant based ketogenic diet.


0:47:13.0 Dr. Eric Zielinski: That’s a lot of avocados.


0:47:14.2 Ashley James: Yeah.


0:47:14.8 Dr. Eric Zielinski: What are you gonna eat? I mean, you got a food selection of 20 foods.


0:47:20.6 Ashley James: Right. And so there’s this idea of that. There’s a hundred diets out there and people are chasing what’s the best diet for weight loss. We need to go deeper. We need to look at what’s the most healing diet. Skip this idea of diet – what’s the most healing lifestyle that’s gonna make me live to 120 and optimize my brain health, my liver health – just optimize everything. And in doing so, my body’s gonna correct itself and it’s gonna lose the weight it doesn’t need and it’s gonna be healthy and have balanced hormones. We want to stop thinking about “What’s some kind of fad I’m gonna do for three months to lose some weight.” And start thinking about “What can I do for the rest of my life.”

So, your book isn’t like, “20 days to a flat belly” or something, your book is how do we get to a point where we’re supporting the body in optimal health.


0:48:24.1 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Yeah. It has to be a lifestyle. Well a couple of things I want to unpack there because you just shared something so valuable and my heart goes out to all the people out there that are following a health celebrity or a health influencer and they are really pushing the ketogenic diet right now. It is a pied piper type of experience, where you have a couple well-known famous leaders in the health space and a lot of folks are following them. It’s just like whatever, and that’s the problem with blogging, that’s a problem with podcasts. A lot of this is none of this is regulated. Most people aren’t really qualified. And I say that very humbly, but it’s hard to say most bloggers and Pinterest pinners and Facebook celebrities, these people aren’t qualified. They don’t really understand even physiology. They haven’t been taught toxicology, and they don’t know nutrition. And when a leader says, “Hey, this is it.” Everyone’s like, “Okay, that’s great. Dr. So and so says that.” Or, “Mommy blogger says this.”

And the ketogenic diet is one of the most pervasive dangerous lies out in the market today. We need to unpack that for a second because it is “the diet,” just like Atkin’s was “the diet.” And it’s something to think about that this diet was formulated to help epileptic children stop seizing in 1920’s. Think of that, why would you as a normal, let’s say you’re overweight but you’re still relatively healthy, like neurologically healthy – why would a relatively healthy person goes on a diet that’s designed to stop seizures? Just let that sink in like, “Oh yeah, this kind of seem odd.”

Number two. Why are we trying to adapt the lifestyle that has not been proven long term? This is a really important point. You mentioned the blue zones, that’s thousands of years of research there. I mean really, even before research was known as research, people have lived this way. We see, we looked at this group of people around the world, we see their ancestors and their great ancestors, their traditions, and now science is finally catching up to the reality of a lifestyle that’s very much life-giving.

There are zero longitudinal studies evaluating what the ketogenic diet does for a normal, healthy adult. We have longitudinal studies on what the ketogenic diet does for children that are epileptic. We’re finding that these kids that are now adults and been on keto, they’re dealing with heart disease, stroke, fatty liver issues, and disease. But we don’t know what the ketogenic diet looks like for people losing weight as a lifestyle. Zero studies we could see after 12 months, so yeah, you’re right, we could argue ketogenic is great to reset some things if you want. Like shock the body, flood the body with “healthy fats,” minimize sugar so maybe you’ll lose some quick pounds. Essentially it’s a starvation diet. It’s a carbohydrate starvation diet which gives you immediate, quick whens, but what does that do to the body long term. And we don’t know, that’s a big fat question mark, kind of like 5G – like Luxemburg, the country just banned 5G and they said publicly, we’re not gonna let our people be science experiments. “You’re in America? If you want to screw around with your people, do it, but we’re not letting 5G in our country.” That’s what the ketogenic diet is, it’s just like 5G. We have no idea what’s gonna happen to people on keto, and that’s a concern, and then just the quality food that you’re eating.

And so, we have a big concern in our household, in our circle with meat. And just the sheer volume of toxins that are in most meat products and it’s getting really really hard to find good clean meat, even “grass-fed organic meat.” It has no guarantee that the meat is good and healthy and pure, and then how it’s process – and then milk and dairy, it gets scary. And again, we’re not vegan, but we are probably 95% plant based and every once in a while, personally I’ll crave a little red meat. I like icelandic grass-fed lamb, like that’s my little thing, and on Thanksgiving we have a turkey. We don’t eat meat much at all and we found that we feel a lot better.

So, anyway I know a lot of people swear about the ketogenic diet like, “It saved my life.. You know I don’t want to take that away from you all, but all I’m trying to say is you need to come up with a better system if you want to live for something for the rest of your life. But like you, I can’t tell you how many people have come up to us and said the ketogenic diet almost killed me, because we just shouldn’t be consuming that sheer amount of fat. Because again, we need to focus on quality not quantity, and to say that you need to restrict your diet to any percentage of anything doesn’t make sense.

So, that’s why our diet book or plan, like it tells you, “Hey, it’s okay to eat apples. You’re not gonna die.” I mean you’re not gonna hurt yourself eating fruit again. We are preaching food freedom and that’s where life opens up. Now don’t fall into the trap of all things in moderation. Like man, as a recovering drug addict, as an alcoholic; I can’t go back to a little bit of cocaine, I can’t go back to black out bender, I can’t go back to a little bit of smoking cigarettes. All things in moderation is a life from the pit of hell. It’s a license to do things that will hurt you.

Let me just give you one word to help that. All good things in moderation – that’s the key. A little bit of honey, the bible says. And it’s good, but too much we’ll get sick and vomit. Like that’s in the book of Proverbs, right? Ancient Jewish wisdom for thousands of years, look at ancient text and they recognize moderation of good things. You don’t have a little bit of adultery, little bit theft, little bit of killing. Think of it in terms like that because we know, you know, I know – and we know we preach to the choir for the brave soul who has listened this long. It was never heard of you or me like, bust your heart, but we know what sugar does to the body. It’s more addictive than cocaine. It’s by far the number 1 link to disease because it triggers inflammation which we’ve already talked about. It’s the cause of most diseases right now that we deal with. So, you can’t have a little bit of sugar, process white sugar is poison.

So, how do you live without sugar? We teach you. How do you live without your microwave? We’ll teach you. How do you incorporate essential oils into your life to make life more enjoyable? We’ll teach you. And hopefully before we get off we can give them maybe some practical tips because I love giving recipes and little hacks along the way.

All that from the keto diet, you know. And so, thank you for mentioning that.


0:55:45.0 Ashley James: Absolutely. I remember a Naturopath that I was seeing was getting every single person in her clinic that got in and she said we’re seeing amazing results, in one month people’s inflammation is down, like she’s looking at blood work. I am convinced now the reason why people have these good results, if they do keto for short term – one to three months maximum, the have some really good results. And I’m convinced it’s because they had to cut out crappy food. It has nothing to do with eating 70, 90% fat. It’s in order to eat that much fat, it crowded out, it pushed churros off their plate, it pushed Oreos off their plate, it pushed pizza off their plate. Whatever foods that were filled with sugar had to go, and so of course inflammation came down because they stopped eating processed sugar, you don’t need to be in ketosis or be on the ketogenic diet or put butter on your steak in order to gain the benefits of not eating sugar. So, looking at how can we gain the benefits that people are claiming they have from the ketogenic diet, well, also eating in a way that’s sustainable and that is looking at filling your plate with fruits and vegetables as much as possible and even some starchy root vegetables – have a sweet potato everyday or a baked potato, that kind of thing, and you don’t need to slather anything in oil or butter. In fact people find that when they whole food fat, so no oil, but instead eat what the oil came from – so eat an olive, or avocado, or sprinkle some flax meal, or chia seeds, or have some hemp hearts – whole plant fats, but avoid anything that’s been processed. So looking at eating foods that have been very minimally if not, zero processed, and that way your body recognizes what it is, it’s able to get the nutrients out of it and you’ll feel better.

I was a type 2 diabetic and so I was very afraid of eating fruit, I was very afraid of eating root vegetables. I thought potatoes were the worst thing you could eat, so I’ve spent years being afraid of carbohydrates, and years being afraid of even vegetables. And I kept constantly went back to this sort of Atkins or keto way of eating because I had a fear of carbohydrates. Then when I went whole foods plant based and removing oil for example, there’s this philosophy that the amount of fat the people are now consuming is actually gumming up the works and making us insulin resistant, and I thought this is so stupid. This just sounds like the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard because here I am coming from a lifetime of if I eat an apple, my blood sugar goes to the roof, so why would I trust that eating a bunch of fruit and vegetables would be good for me? And I’ve been told my whole life that all these fats are really good, right? So, that just seems totally opposite, but I tried it because again, I’m willing to experiment and try anything.

I remember taking my blood sugar and I just started crying. I couldn’t believe that I had stopped all the oil and all the processed fats, and all the meat, and I was eating just vegetables, fruit, nuts, seeds, beans, legumes, and that’s it. That’s all I was eating and fill my plate up as much as I want until I feed good, three times a day. And my blood sugar, I remember an hour or an hour and a half after eating was 89 – I’d never seen that number before and I felt amazing. I felt on top of the world. I had so much energy. It was really the first time in my life that I noticed no inflammation. Like I just woke up clear headed, jumped on the bed. There were no barriers to entry, there were no symptoms, and that’s what it really sold me. And I know it seems like we should know all this, but you mean eating unadulterated foods from the earth and just filling my plate with that, that would be the healthiest way to eat, and just listening to my intuition and doing that. But I did have to battle the cravings and the triggers, seeing and smelling all the wonderful processed foods out there, we need to battle those little addictions as they come up and this idea of falling off the bandwagon. So, let’s say we do fall off and eat a burger or whatever right? And this idea of, “Oh, well I guess I’ll get on the diet again next week and I’ll just eat this bad way for the next few days.” Right? That’s our justification. It’s kind of like having one flat tire and getting over the car and shooting the other three tires. So we need to catch ourselves. I needed to keep catching myself if I ever “fell off the bandwagon” to go, “You know what? My next choice is gonna be a good one.” Not, “My next choice next week.” Or, “I’ve fallen off. So I can keep eating this way.” Because we are led by our dopamine. we are led by the desire to have those hyper-palatable foods.

But my understanding is that essential oils can really help us curb those cravings and maybe have that break state to just stop our brain from telling us that it really really wants that whatever its craving, and instead allows to have a bit of a break state.

What kind of essential oils can we use, either by smelling it, or applying it topically, or by ingesting it that will help us to stay on track and stop those cravings, or at least allow us to calm down so that we can make better choices.


1:02:24.2 Dr. Eric Zielinski: That is key, because if our cravings are going to drive us to do something unhealthy, then we want to satisfy them. So one thing, using essential oils like cinnamon bark, black pepper, and peppermint can actually help. There’s research to suggest why. Like black pepper, it’s actually been shown to help reverse the addiction cascade in people that are quitting smoking, so the withdrawal. I get it, I tried to quit smoking multiple times falling flat on my face. And so, that drive, that addiction like I need that hit, I need that high – black pepper can soothe and ease and lessen those withdrawal symptoms. Addiction is addiction and that’s something that you learn. Just like basics are basics. So whether it’s addiction to sex or drugs or food or sugar or alcohol – it’s the same cascade that happens in the brain. So, black pepper can help with that.

Cinnamon bark is fantastic for balancing blood sugar and that is probably the number 1 cause that is most easily remedied through exercise and diet is rampant blood sugar. We’re just overdosing on sugar. Like you mentioned before, you just stop eating sugar A.K.A. the ketogenic diet, you’re just gonna lose weight. We find that typically 15 to 20 pounds are really easy to lose in the first month just by cutting out sugar alone. And so, when are diets are filled with sugar and processed forms of sugar like, processed wheat flour and things that are metabolized like sugar – essentially has caused insulin receptors not respond well to the insulin that’s out in the bloodstream and basically, the body doesn’t know what to do. So you’re consuming sugar all day long and the body’s like, “Ok. Obviously you’re a diabetic.” But most people don’t get that using certain things can help insulin sensitivity – can reverse the problem, and that’s what cinnamon bark does. So cinnamon bark can actually help your body not only produce more insulin but help your insulin receptors and increase sensitivity. So, that can help with the sugar cravings, because if insulin can do its job, you’re not gonna crave sugar anymore, because your body doesn’t crave it anymore, because your body got it.

Peppermint is one that is very good for satiety and natural energy booster. It helps you feel full and it’s also good for athletic performance, which kind of all place into each other. You really want to incorporate this lifestyle of activity, a lifestyle of healthy behaviors, and that’s why when it comes to cravings too, we want to make people feel better. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been a comfort eater in the past and I know what it’s like being down in the dumps and battling with clinical depression and I find that food because food gives you that immediate predictable high, especially if it’s sugar. Like, boom I get a little sugar high. If you’re not depressed, if you’re happy, the bible talks about joy is medicine – happy heart does better than medicine. It’s something to be said like diffusing and using topically citrus essential oils which are proven antidepressants. Proven to help with anxiety and panic attacks – that could help you too. It’s a roundabout way, you don’t think about it but you feel better. You’re not gonna be tempted to eat that second pint of Ben & Jerry’s and maybe even that first pint.

And what we wanna do is help people feel better about themselves and there is an aspect where we talk a lot about in the book is emotional detoxification, like falling in love with yourself again, doing what you know is right. And essential oils if used well and properly can help you get in that meditative state, can again help naturally produced serotonin and dopamine, can help deal with some of the issues of life in a way that maybe, you can’t do it alone.


1:06:13.8 Ashley James: Are there essential oils that help the liver. I know that when it comes to weight loss the liver has to metabolize that fat.


1:06:30.5 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Not directly. So, we don’t have any research to suggest that essential oils can help liver function, but we do know that abuse of essential oils can actually cause liver and kidney toxicity, because they still are chemicals. That’s something to realize. As natural as they are, you’re not gonna walk into a lavender field and see a pool of lavender, these flowers and blossoms need to be distilled and takes about roughly 30 to 35 pounds of lavender flowers to get one itty bitty bottle of lavender. So for sure, don’t take 15 drops in your mouth and call it a day. That’s the danger of a lot of misguided folks in using essential oils – it’s to overdo it. Like a little goes a long way.

When it comes to liver function going back to fatty liver, using the essential oils we’ve already talked about and especially the citrus oils – we’ll go back to lime and grapefruit helping the body produce what’s known as lipolysis, the burning down of fat – triggers fat burning and fat breakdown. That will actually help aiding the body in losing weight. So again, it’s a roundabout way, but if you wanna support your liver function, you just got to lose weight. I mean you really need to lose weight to support your liver function, but do it gradually. And you know what’s something too, it’s as important, I just want to add and I don’t want to name a magazine but the tabloids, and you all know what it is. The ones at the counter right when you’re about to check out the grocery store, you see that woman 60 pounds – that’s dangerous. I’ve known a man, he went to the hospital, he almost had his gallbladder removed because he was fasting doing a flush and he was essentially starving himself and he lost 50 pounds in 3, 4 weeks and he put such a strain on his gallbladder that he almost had it get removed. He almost blocked his ducts – gallstones. To the point where it was a bad deal, his body couldn’t process the amount of fat. it couldn’t metabolize the amount of fat that was being processed through his system.

You want slow, gradual, consistent, sustainable weight loss, and you know 15, 20 pounds is really sustainable for almost anyone – they could lose that. You can get up a little bit, but I get concerned. I don’t want people lose 40 pounds in a month, that’s way too much too quick. You want to get that over the course of months and that’s why our program, we have the 60-day challenge we call it. The first 30 days is really designed to help reset metabolism, balance hormones and also reset and retrain your taste buds. So, now  when you consume food you’re not like loading up with sugar, you know you’re not putting sugar on your Cheerios or some people not putting Cheerios on your sugar. You’re not like just automatically reaching for the salt shaker at dinner before tasting food. You’re gonna taste it first then. So, it takes time. It takes about a month and women know this, obviously you’re on a monthly cycle. Men too, we’re on a monthly cycle. Our skin regenerates itself every month, our hormones balance, so give us month just to kind of reset things.

Then another month to kind of really establish lifestyle behaviors because research has shown it takes up to 66 days on average, this is so interesting – 66 days on average to develop a habit. Now, that takes into account everyone like me, I can develop a habit in two hours, I’m really extreme. My wife probably takes two, three years to develop a habit because she’s not the extremist as I am. But on average, so do you want to change your life forever to establish habits where you’re not tempted versus no? I’ve not had a McDonalds burger in 16 years, I haven’t had a Coke in 16 years, I haven’t had a cigarette in 16 years. It’s been 16 years since my “health transformation.” I have options for everything that I want. So, if I want a pumpkin pie, we know how to do it the right way, if I want a soda, I make my own with a little bit of essential oils and stevia or I like Virgil’s which is sweetened from stevia and that’s our quick one that you can get at the store. I love their root beer by the way.

We have solutions to the things, and so you come up with these systems that guarantee your success and that’s something that all of you can do. If you’re listening and if you’re on the ketogenic diet, because we’re picking on keto today. If you’re willing to starve yourself of carbohydrates and go through that extreme planning and expense and all those things to just load up on fats and stay away from all those carbs, that’s a lot of effort. Just give me part of that effort, just a portion of that to start thinking about a more holistic kind of approach. An approach that satisfies your palate, an approach that gives your body time to adapt and to respond and to truly heal, and that really is the one thing I love about what you do. It’s all about healing from the inside out; emotional, spiritual, mental, and of course physical.


1:11:41.4 Ashley James: Yes. Absolutely. We have to look at every aspect of our life and lifestyle in order to heal because something like emotional stress can cause physical inflammation at the cellular level. Speaking of inflammation, what do you teach in your book for decreasing  inflammation?


1:12:03.3: Dr. Eric Zielinski: There’s a lot of essential oils that can help soothe inflammation. We have a couple recipes that you can in the book, and I ‘ll share a couple with you.

For one, if you want to ingest essential oils, that’s very safe. Make sure that the oils are 100% pure. Not adulterated, no fillers, no additives. You got to do a little research, make sure the company is transparent with their sourcing, transparent with their – I call it the blood panel, the GC-MS; Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry – basically it just tells you what’s in the oil and it should have “executive. summary,” like you get from a blood panel like, “Hey, your numbers are within normal limits or they’re without. So you want to look at the report, you really do. You wanna do a little bit of research especially if you’re gonna use essential oils to treat a disease like most people do right now using oils. So if you’re gonna ingest them, they have to be pure.

A good recipe that we found that really helps people is getting a size 00 which typically most people can swallow that, a 00 vegan gel cap. You can get gel caps on Amazon really cheap, and you get one drop of copaiba, one drop of orange, and one drop of peppermint. It could be a sweet, bitter orange, wild orange, I don’t care orange in a nutshell is very similar depending on the species. So you can just get orange oil, one drop copaiba, one drop peppermint. You put them in the capsule and you fill the capsule up with a good vegetable oil like coconut oil, or grapeseed oil, or olive oil type of thing, not Canola. And you take that as a pill, you could take that up to twice a day and then just kind of monitor your results for about two weeks. And that’s what we do, take it twice daily for two weeks and see how you respond. And you might find that certain symptoms just kind of go away, like bloating and we’ve already mentioned a bunch of them; nausea, bloating, libido, energy, and brain fog.

There are other techniques while  you’re doing that, you can apply a roll-on. Same oils, or if you want to use different ones, we have found that ginger, lemon, spearmint, peppermint comes up a lot because it’s traditional soothing oil – anti inflammatory. But a roll-on recipe you could use, get a 10ml glass roller bottle, 4 drops of ginger, 2 drops of lemon, 2 drops of peppermint, and 2 drops of spearmint. And you could try different ones out and that’s one thing we try and incorporate and educate people, “Hey, if you don’t have spearmint just use a couple extra drops of peppermint.” It’s not gonna make too much of a difference. We’re just trying to get people a variety especially those people who have a robust medicine cabinet.

A nice inhaler or diffuser recipe is equal mixtures of clove, eucalyptus, and orange. Eucalyptus is rich in a chemical known as 1,8-cineole which is exceptionally anti inflammatory. And so, that is something you want to incorporate. It can be eucalyptus radiata or eucalyptus globulus. I personally have no preference, they both have a similar effect on inflammation. So again, whatever your favorite company uses or sells, you’re good to go.

Same thing with clove oil. Typically there aren’t many different varieties of clove oil, it’s just clove oil. But clove oil is extremely rich in antioxidants and can soothe inflammation, there’s so many more. Once you kind of get into the world of essential oils, you find that all of them have this somewhat minor to significant inflammatory response to it and that’s why you apply them topically, inhale them, and if you really want an impact you ingest them.


1:15:52.7 Ashley James: Could you do damage to the liver just by inhaling too much essential oils or by applying too many topically or is it only when you ingest them?


1:16:03.4 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Yeah, typically ingestion. You have to apply an extreme amount on your skin because the skin even though we all hear that the skin is the proverbial sponge, the largest organ on your body – the researches suggest that only 50 to 60% that are applied on the skin penetrate the bloodstream. So, the skin does have a direct barrier fact, there’s only so much that will get into the bloodstream. So, skin is very safe. And inhalation, I have not seen any research that really substantiates that inhaling essential oils can cause any organ toxicity. Of course overdosing is one thing, like a nebulizer is a potentially dangerous apparatus. I’ve got myself near fainting; vertigo – dizzy with using a nebulizer incorrectly, a nebulizer that is straight essential oil, not mixed or not part of a water diffuser. So, when you have this ultrasonic water diffuser that most people think of as diffusers, there’s a vibrating disc at the bottom of a water tank that vibrates at such a high speed. It breaks up the water compounds and the essential compounds and then emit steam, so there’s no heating, it’s just super high vibration that breaks things up and emits mist.

There is a similar apparatus out there called the nebulizer, but there’s no water. So, you’re putting 40, 50 drops of essential oil, pure true oil, and then there’s a vibrating mechanism in there that emits pure essential oil that is super concentrated – you do not want to use that for more than 10 to 15 minutes at a time and of course in a well ventilated room. So, if someone is being on whys and if they’re just using oils in a way where they can cause an overdose response, yes that’s possible, but that’s rare, but the caution is there though. Because you know, that’s what you’re taught, you’re not gonna follow instructions, you’re not gonna know what to do. That’s why a lot of these companies sell a nebulizer straight all diffuser that has automatic shut off at 5, 10 minutes. But most people like me just put it back on because we like the smell, well no – what are you doing to your body? [Laughter] There’s a reason it shuts off automatically 5 or 10 minutes.

So please, please, you waste so much on oils when you’re using a nebulizer if you’re not doing it for true disease management. Like if you want to stop a panic attack, nebulizer is the way to go, but most people should not be messing with that. 99% of us should be using these water diffusers because they’re the safest sustainable way. And we also got to think about a lot of waste, you could easily go through a bottle of oil in a week and that’s 35 pounds of lavender gone. It’s a lot of lavender. That’s as much as my wife and I can grow in a year. Like we just consumed that in a week because we misuse the oil. So I want that put that healthy caution to everyone because I want kids and my grandkids to be able to use essential oils and we just don’t wanna consumerize them to death.


1:19:16.7 Ashley James: Are there essential oils that should not ingested? Like I’ve always heard don’t ingest tea tree oil. Are there ones that absolutely you should not swallow?


1:19:28.3 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Ultimately it’s dosing. It’s not an easy answer because wintergreen is one that all aromatherapists recommend. Wintergreen can cause toxicity if ingested but what do you think flavors your root beer? I mean that’s the concern that I have with throwing the baby out of the bath water – it’s dosing. And so, if you’re using a culinary dose, if you want to make homemade root beer and you have a batch of a gallon and you put a drop of wintergreen – and again, what do you think flavors your Coca Cola, your food products? And so, by enlarge, if you’re using essential oils for culinary purposes and if you’re following the recipe like in my book – go add it. But if you’re using oils for medicinal purposes, you need to take a little more consideration because there are known drug interactions. And again wintergreen, yeah I’m not gonna ingest in a medicinal dose. So, that’s the confusion.

There are contraindications for a medicinal dose versus a culinary dose, like huge, because we’re talking parts per billion. Like one drop in a gallon, that’s parts per billion, because there’s how many billions of drops are in a gallon? So, that’s something to think about. So yeah, there are lists; tea tree – personally I’ve ingested tea tree in a capsule or some way that’s safe. Oregano, tea tree, cloves oils that could be caustic, but none are “toxic” in the sense that a drop of oil and the capsule and the capsule is gonna cause any sort of damage. There’s no research, trust me, at all to prove that or to suggest that. But in my aromatherapy text and I’m looking at the guidelines and our “work manual” type of text, there are max oil dosages for all oils and there are really few like bitter almond. Who’s gonna buy that, wormwood, rue? Who has rue? And so, there are certain oils that are definitely contraindicated to consume, but no one’s buying them. The oils that you’re getting, your lemons, your lavenders, your eucalyptuses and stuff, people consume them on a regular basis all the time.

But we want to put a healthy caution out there. So this is where I get a little criticism from the aromatherapy community because I try to get people licensed in a sense, empowerment to do this, but we always have to have that caution.


1:21:54.6 Ashley James: Right, absolutely. Do we have to do the capsule or could we just put it in a glass of water or stick it on our tongue? Why the capsule just the taste or is there is a medicinal reason?


1:22:08.5 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Really to protect the mucous membranes in your throat and in your esophagus. They’re super concentrated. I mean they’re very much concentrated to the point where they’re caustic, they could burn. And I would argue and research has suggested that diluting actually helps the body absorb better, for one. That’s why you just don’t wanna apply undiluted oils on your skin, it’s hard for the body completely metabolize and absorb that because again, they’re just pure chemicals. That’s what essential oils are. They’re pure plant based chemicals. So when you dilute them with a carrier oil, it actually helps the body absorb and metabolize them better. So that’s one thing, but also protection. I mean nothing will burn your mouth like from a drop of oregano, and water doesn’t dilute them – water and oil don’t mix. So, you could put a drop of oil on your water and mix it up, but the oil suspends on top. You either need to get an emulsifier or something or if you really wanna drink them like me, I love my matcha green tea in the morning – that’s my thing that help me quit the coffee habit, it gives me a nice little energy boost and I love the benefits I get from them. I’ll put a drop of cinnamon bark and a drop of peppermint in that, but because I have a fatty oil or a fatty substance like coconut milk in it, it helps dilute that.

So, always ingest essential oils with some sort of fatty carrier and/or the safest way, if you’re doing it for medicinal purposes is through a capsule. You could also just put a teaspoon of olive oil or coconut oil in a bowl and mix it with a drop of oil and eat it like that, but you know there is that taste aspect to it, but that’s much more safe. It’s infinitely more safe if you’d just put a drop.

Sublingual use, I don’t know. That’s a tough one. I see more harm than good. There’s no research to suggest that sublingual – putting a drop under your tongue is gonna help your body assimilating and absorbing it any better than using  a gel capsule or another way.


1:24:17.2 Ashley James: Essential oils are antimicrobials. So, what about the good bacteria in the gut, do they harm the good bacteria while killing the bad?


1:24:28.4 Dr. Eric Zielinski: That’s a fantastic question, because we’ve seen through the studies that essential oils have what’s known as cell selectivity. Because again they’re from nature, they’re of the earth, and I don’t want to use the word innate because they’re not alive, they’re not intelligent. But there is this somewhat innate intelligence we seen in these inanimate objects that they know how to interact with the body. The body knows how to interact with that. I mean we’re all of the earth if you look at it, and so whether it’s cancer, whether it’s healthy cells, cancer cells, good bacteria, bad bacteria – you see that essential oils actually target pathogens and they leave the healthy alone. So, there’s no research at all to suggest that oregano oil will the probiotics or the good bacteria in your gut, but we do know that it will definitely kill the back bacteria. Same thing with our skin and that’s the key about why using essential oils topically is infinitely more better than like, hand sanitizer or antibacterial products. It’s because it allows and fosters good healthy bacterial growth versus just annihilating everything.

So, they’re not like antibiotics because antibiotics are very much, I don’t know what to say, I hate to use the use the word intelligent, but they’re so synthetic that the body can’t react to it. It’s like this nuclear bomb approach, but that’s the wonderful thing about nature, that’s the wonderful thing about God’s design. It blows my mind, I can’t explain it more than just what I just did. But again, the technical term in the research is cell selectivity. So, that’s pretty cool, especially when you’re trying to cure cancer cells and you see that certain essential oil chemicals can do that, but they’re not killing the healthy cells. I was like, “Wow. Interesting.”


1:26:07.4 Ashley James: What about those who know that they have candida or they know they have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, yeast problems, that kind of thing. What kind of essential oils should they ingest to help the body to fight those infections?


1:26:33.8 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Well, if that’s your issue, get my first book “The Healing Power of Essential Oils” because I have a whole chapter on candida. The issue with candida primarily is diet related to a large extent. And so, if you tightened up your diet and then if you’re really focusing on good, balanced, healthy carbs, not being afraid of sugar, but if you’re someone who has candida you really should not be consuming honey, maple syrup, even the natural sugars; agave or the coconut sugar – you really wanna limit that stuff. But using essential oils like lavender, caraway, clove is exceptionally potent against candida. I have candida roll-ons and capsules. I wrote the recipes in my first book, that stuff is there. You’ll find that one issue about candida that really blew my mind when I was writing my first book, was the use of antibiotics and how that has been linked to candida overgrowth. Because especially women that have UTIs which is somewhat common in women – you get a UTI, you get on an antibiotic and that ultimately produces candida vaginal infection. And then you get an antifungal which then leads into a UTI and then it leads into resistance, It’s like this vicious cycle where women often times from UTI, vaginal infection, to candida overgrowth. To stop the onslaught first is to try to find the solution to stop overdosing and taking antibiotics as much as possible and that in it of itself can help regulate and bring healing.

One thing about essential oils is we have no research to suggest that the thyme, oregano, and the clove that are extremely antifungal that fungi would become resistant to them. And that’s an issue with candida, it is antifungal resistant fungus. That’s scary because we’re creating superbugs, bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics, fungus that are resistant to these solutions. Again, essential oils can really help a lot.

We have like gentele tampon, tea tree tampon. That’s the other thing. Tea tree is another good one that’s a traditional one. But you know, when you think of candida, we oftentimes think of vaginal infection which is a known issue, but men deal with them too and we are finding that people that are doing systemic candida overgrowth, it’s definitely approachable and you could beat this thing.


1:29:16.9 Ashley James: And so, you’re saying get the first book because you talked about fight it. Do you talk about oils to ingest in your first book for candida?


1:29:29.8 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Yeah.


1:29:32.0 Ashley James: We’ll make sure the link to your first book is also in the show notes as well.

What about parasites? You know, getting on the idea of using essential oils which are herbs, they’re just concentrated extracts from plants. So this is botanical medicine. Are there essential oils we can consume to help kill parasites?


1:29:55.9 Dr. Z Dr. Eric Zielinski: Yeah. You know, the thing about parasites is there’s not much research and we see the herb, actually we see a lot of wormwood which we don’t wanna be using wormwood essential oil internally. That is a known toxic oil, it’s just too concentrated versus the herbal or the dried form. Clove is one that comes up a lot, but other than that, I haven’t looked too deep into it because what I see essentially, I don’t know, I see a lot of the supplement solutions out there are very much whole form base and people aren’t messing with essential oils at that level. And we have some anecdotal evidence out there which might be good, but the only thing I could really come up with is clove. That is like the consistent one overall. But yeah, there’s nothing and that’s a shame because I’m sure there are solutions out there, it’s just we don’t have the research and  that’s where the funding is desperately needed and the Natural Health Community start funding this stuff, but our pockets are quite shallow compared to big pharma so, we’re getting by.


1:31:08.7 Ashley James: So I’ve got a little quiz for you. Say, I’m gonna take you and fly you to some island where there’s no stores and you are gonna help that population there and you can only bring three oils, and these people are suffering from the common, everyday illnesses that we’re suffering from. Apparently they’re eating McDonalds, but there’s no shop, you can’t buy any more oils. You could only bring three. What three oils do you bring to help this people?


1:31:46.2 Dr. Eric Zielinski: You know, I’ll choose three out of the four that I focus on the book. I’ll choose lime, cinnamon bark, and peppermint and between those three, whether we’re fighting a pathogen, boosting mood, whether we’re trying to lose weight, it balance blood sugar – you could do a lot of things with those and they mix well together surprisingly enough. And so, lime which is one of my favorites – very tasty. By the way, if you’ve never had guacamole without a drop of lime and a drop of cilantro, you haven’t lived. It’s yum and so we try to enjoy that as well. Cinnamon bark and peppermint for sure.


1:32:23.3 Ashley James: I love it. Tell us a bit about cooking with essential oils versus putting them in a capsule and consuming them. They’re obviously being more diluted, because if you’re putting one drop of lime, one drop of cilantro, and whole bowl of guacamole and then sharing it with other people, so you’re not consuming an entire drop like you would if you used the capsule. But you’re still getting some medicinal benefits and then the idea also, the question is – because you’re mixing it with food, do essential oils interact with foods to create a synergistic effect. So, is there a benefit to cooking with them?


1:33:10.0 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Yeah. You know, you get that minor culinary dose and that’s something that we’re trying to incorporate with people is you don’t have to take a garlic supplement to get the benefits of garlic, just add a clove of garlic to your food and have a nice medicinal dose, like constant dose throughout your day with your different food items. And so, that’s something that we’re really trying to encourage people to do. There are virtually no contraindications when you’re doing that, especially because the therapeutic effect is minor. So that is the key though, it’s minor negligible therapeutic effect. Again, we’re not like balancing blood sugar by putting a drop of cinnamon in huge pumpkin pie. So you put things in a perspective like that. So, it’s very safe, it’s a great way for people to ease in and feel comfortable with ingesting oils, but also it enhances the flavor. It really makes food just taste better in a lot of different ways.

So, that is the main difference. Follow the recipes in the book when it comes to the capsules, like there are 2, 3, 4, sometimes 5, 6 drops at the most – drops in a capsule. Like that’s getting up to max oral dose limits. So, you want to be careful if you’re doing that; you are under the guidance of a healthcare professional if you’re on drugs because there known drug interactions, and that’s something they have to consider. But going back to the culinary use, unless they are on a heart disease medication and they’ve been told by their doctor not to eat grapefruit, most people don’t have nutritional contraindications for their pharmaceuticals. And so, that’s another way that we can get people to use essential oils.

I really like the culinary low dose aspect of using essential oils. It’s the same thing that you get when you’re diffusing. Diffusing essential oils and inhaling those microparticles in the air isn’t  gonna instantly shift your whole physiology. It’s very minor, very subtle, but that’s good though for people. You don’t want those dramatic changes like taking an NSAID and your body’s physiology changes within minutes and it’s like, “Woah. What did I do?” We’re trying to make things more gradual and this is sustainable long term health and healing. This isn’t like “Hey. I wanna get fixed.”


1:35:29.2 Ashley James: Right.


1:35:31.0 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Because a concept that we gotta remember you all, especially for people that are overweight, is it took you awhile to get into this mess, I’ll testify. When I gained my 10, 15 pounds when I got into my “fat pants” it didn’t happen overnight. It was months up to a year worth of neglecting my body, not exercising, eating foods I shouldn’t be, and chronically stressed – it just didn’t happen. You can’t gain 10 pounds in a day or two or a week or sometimes a month – it takes time. And so, it will take time to reverse and sometimes it might take longer to reverse depending on how long you’ve been in that state. It took you five months to get into the mess, you’ve been in this mess for 10 years, you know, you gotta give yourself a year. But, you got to think about that – a year, for the rest of your life especially for people that really need to lose some serious weight. They want to get off their drugs. They want to really get control of their life again, that’s when things change.


1:36:31.8 Ashley James: I love it. There’s definitely a link between inflammation and allergies and the histamine response. And you’ve already talked about how to help the body to lower inflammation, but is there anything specifically about helping people cope with allergies or lower histamine that you can provide.


1:36:52.6 Dr. Eric Zielinski: No. That is one thing that when it comes to histamine, I have not focused a lot on the histamine triggers when it comes to food. Allergies, there’s a lot you could do with essential oils as a whole. Lemon, lavender, and peppermint is the typical allergy blend. Very detoxifying, helps open up the airways, very cleansing and soothing, calming – that’s what the lavender does. So we’ve recommended that to thousands of people and you can ingest that in a gel capsule, you can topically apply that over your chest and the back of your neck, you can inhale that through your diffuser. But lemon, lavender, peppermint – really good for allergies and seasonal allergies especially.

But one thing about allergies though I want to caution you all is, allergies sort of become normal. Allergies are not normal. This is really important – you should not have seasonal allergies for more than two years at the most. If your body’s working, your immune system has an adaptive response. Unless something dramatically changes, like you completely changed the landscaping of your home and you have completely different flowers and plants and shrubs, or something and now you have different pollen to adapt to, your body should be adapting to its environment relatively quickly. And so, for people that deal with chronic, year after year seasonal allergies – that is a huge trigger and that’s a red flag. I would say that is an early stage autoimmune condition because your body is just in such override. You’re immune system is so much on edge that it cannot even handle the slightest of toxin. It’s basically saying you’re immune system isn’t properly adapting to its environment. It’s not functioning properly. I’ll testify. I’ve been there.

Mold toxicity is the number one cause of seasonal allergies. And when I was dealing with mold toxicity – black mold in my home, I never suffered through seasonal allergies like that in my life; but now that we have a home that’s pure, clean – we just went through the allergy season. Yeah a little bit or runny nose and sneezing because there’s like a ton of pollen in here, well yeah. About the same thing with sneezing there’s a dog nearby with a lot of dander, that’s normal. But these people suffering through days and weeks, that’s not good. So, I want to put that out there – it’s a sign, it’s a chronic inflammatory that is a pre-autoimmune condition that can be solved.


1:39:22.3 Ashley James: Exactly. Absolutely. I’ve had clients who when we’ve cleaned up their diet and they were on years and years of Claritin or something like that. But cleaning up the diet, getting rid of gluten for a lot of people getting rid of grains, or the gluten grains – helping heal the gut that they no longer have those allergies or seasonal allergies. And it is the subtle symptoms of the body. If we have chronic symptoms that we need to run to over the counter meds for, we need to stop and take a deep dive out and look at what’s going on because if we treat symptoms, even with natural stuff – if you’re just treating symptoms all the time, then there’s damage being done deeper. So we have to get to the root and we’ve got to clean up the diet, we wanna use essential oils to support us, we wanna use supplements to support us, we have to have a diet that’s healing and then create a lifestyle that is healing. And so, we’re gonna do it one step at a time, right? We’re just gonna take one step at a time and if we get overwhelmed, we’re gonna get inhale some lavender and lime and peppermint and we’re just gonna take one baby step at a time, but we’re gonna get there..

It was 10,11 years ago that I was really really sick. Coming up 11 years ago when my husband and I decided to eat organic and then shop  [inaudible 1:40:53.9] store and then one thing led to another. One baby step after another. So, it does take time, but you can do things like cut out the sugar and do 30 days with no processed sugar and just see what happens and then use essential oils to help you overcome those sugar cravings and help you stay focused and help you love yourself and increase the love in your body and for your body while you’re going through that change and then try another challenge and try going dairy-free for a month or trying going meat-free for a month, then try adding two cups of vegetables at each meal. And these are fun challenges and then you get to see after 30 days, do i feel better, the same, or worse? You’ll know what’s going on. Give it a good amount of time to see how you feel and then one step at a time you’re gonna get there.

Dr. Z you have a whole bunch of resources for us and we’ve made an easy link for everyone, it’s: www.learntruehealth.com/oilsdiet

Listeners can go to www.learntruehealth.com/oilsdiet

And you’ve provided us with a whole bunch of really cool trainings. Can you let us know what that is?


1:42:16.2 Dr. Eric Zielinski: You mentioned the word challenge a lot. One thing that we offer is we call our 60-day challenge, It’s free group coaching program that walks you through those 60, you can just us two months – even though the research suggest it takes 66 days to develop a habit. We’ll walk you through our initial 30-day we call a little fast track and we’ll walk you through the next 30 days which will hopefully set you up forever. We have nearly 2,000 people on this group right now and it’s open enrollment. So whether you’re listening early, whenever this is gonna air in 2019 or 2020 and beyond, this group is gonna be available. We have mentors and people that have gone through the program. So that’s what I want to encourage you all, you’re not gonna do this alone and that’s the number one thing. Again, the recipes are good, essential oils are fun, people love feeling better, but it’s the camaraderie.

One lady just really touched my heart. This is on the Facebook group. One person just wrote, “You know, I’ve never had a lot of friends in my life and this group, if I didn’t get anything else from just meeting and being able to chat with and talk to some people and have “online friends” that’s been worth this more than anything.” That’s someone of an extreme case, but you know, maybe you do have a lot of friends and family that love you, but maybe they don’t live the way you wanna live, and maybe they couldn’t truly support your lifestyle, maybe it’s hard for you to go out at the church, socials, or family functions because of all the tempting things and bad stuff that people are eating and doing.

Imagine being a part of a group of people that will help you just share how they’re over coming and posting recipes like, “Hey. I just made this.” Or “I just did this with my family.” That’s important and that’s why we changed the name of our website to Natural Living Family because it’s kinda been what we’ve done and we’ve been blessed to start and develop a natural living family. So, that is of itself invaluable. And then mama Z, my wife has created hours of videos on how to perform, literally do, demonstrate all of the exercises because we have an exercise program too, a home exercise program, regardless of your athletic level or your fitness level, or you weight – she’ll help you do it. And so she walk you through our fun little shopping tour, we’ll go to a natural health food store and we spent about and hour and a half with our natural living family answering questions and walk through every isle and then mama Z walks you through how to make some of our favorite recipes from the book. So, you get all that stuff plus ebooks. It’s a really really cool package because you can get the book on Amazon for $17 then what? And we don’t want this to be just another book that you get on the shelf and just ends up collecting dust on our bookshelf. That would be a travesty to me. We have seen of course the 45 pounds and 45 inches loss story, that’s like normal if you need to lose that weight. But we’ve also seen people gained weight that need to gain weight and people get off medications. That one lady, she lost a little bit of weight, but the most important thing for her was to get off of her anxiety medications. Wow, like really? And other people getting off their thyroid medications, so many fun stories. If you’re willing to do the soul searching and if you’re willing to put in the effort, and a lot of the time is spent on your needs, a lot of the time is spent meditating, alone – really reflecting on you and who you are.

You know, if you wanna fall in love with yourself again, if you wanna enjoy your life again and if you wanna be a light to the world, that’s our invitation. You’re the person that we want in our world because we could help you with that. If you just want a quick fix, you just want to lose 20, 30 pounds in a week, that can’t help you because that’s not safe. That’s not healthy and we wanna get you out of that mentality because we don’t do cheat days, it doesn’t even exist. And we’re gonna walk you through how to completely eradicate temptation, so you’re never tempted again. That will blow our mind.


1:46:40.2 Ashley James: I love it. So they go to www.learntruehealth.com/oilsdiet and when they get to join the group, they have access to videos as well. Can you tell us a bit about the videos that they have access to in addition to the group which is the biggest thing of course.


1:46:59.9 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Yeah. My wife Sabrina makes six of her favorite recipes. Everything from a treat to our lemon buns, tea bread, crockpot lasagna for people that are at that stage of the diet program to simulate other kinds of tasties. But you know the key is just to show you how to do the exercises that we talk about. Because a lot of people go how do I really do this? So, it’s a full exercise demo class and also that shopping tour I mentioned where my wife and I are with a group of 10, 15 local natural living family members at a local health food store and we just took over the store, and we just talk, they ask questions and we answer them, we went through every isle and just kinda help them navigate what to look for and what not to look for, and not lose your wallet over being a healthy eater because being healthy does not have to be more expensive and we explain how.


1:47:56.2 Ashley James: I love it. That’s awesome. There’s so many wonderful things that your are providing and I’ve really enjoyed all the training that you provide. Our first interview episode 302 you gave some great info and I love the recipe that you gave in that episode for making your own hand sanitizer. That really stuck with me. Listeners you got to go back and also check out episode 302 after this to hear Dr. Z’s great tips and we dive more into what are essential oils and how to use them. So we talked more about that in 302.

I love this idea of really incorporating them throughout the diet. Making sure the diet is rich in those nutrients. Is there anything left unsaid, is there anything that we haven’t covered that you really wanted to make sure we covered today?


1:48:50.5 Dr. Eric Zielinski: You know, just this concept that diets not work, but transformation does. A diet by definition is a collection of foods that you eat. I mean my diet is different than your diet which different than your son’s or daughter’s and my son’s and daughter’s diet. So diets are relative. And so, the essential oils diet is really a transformation program to help you look and transform from the inside out. From personal experience and from actually helping thousands of people, we’ve been very blessed to say that helping thousands of people go through their metamorphosis, it’s like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. Just be patient with yourself and fall in love with yourself and know that you’re worth it. Don’t look back, don’t beat yourself up. Look over and think what do I need to do? What can I do? And like you mentioned, Ashley, focus on the low hanging foot and baby steps and build off of that and never forget those things to be grateful for because those are the things that are really gonna help you when things get tough, and things will get tough. Life happens. But you know, we have what it takes to overcome that.

And so, that’s my encouragement and my challenge to everybody is to do your best and never look back and realize that you can enjoy a truly healthy abundant life.


1:50:19.1 Ashley James: Wonderful. Beautiful. Beautifully said. Thank you so much, Dr. Z for coming today and sharing. This time has just flown by and I am really looking forward to cooking with some essential oils. You’ve given me some great ideas and I can’t wait to dive in to your book and go further into these recipes integrating essential oils even more into my life.

It’s been such a pleasure having you here and I can’t wait to have you back on the show. So, thank you.


1:50:47.0 Dr. Eric Zielinski: Well, thank you for having me and bless everyone listening. Talk soon.

Outro: Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition and how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity? Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business, support people in their success? Do you love helping people?

You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach. I highly recommend checking out The Institute for Integrative Nutrition.

I just spent the last year in their health coaching certification program and it really blew me away. It was so amazing. I learned over a hundred dietary theories. I learned all about nutrition, but from a standpoint of how we can help people to shift their lives and shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health, I definitely recommend you check them out.

You can Google, Institute for Integrative Nutrition or IIN and give them a call or you can go to www.learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training to check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in.

Be sure to mention my name Ashley James and the Learn True Health Podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible.

I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program and I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information. We need more health coaches. In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field. So many health coaches are. getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic office, doctors offices.you can work in hospitals, you can work online through Skype and help people around the world. you can become an author. You can go into the school system and help your local schools shift their programs to help children be healthier. you can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success and their health goals.

There’s so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach.

So check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Mention my name, get the best deal.  Give them a call and they;ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you.

Classes are starting soon. The next round of classes are starting at the end of the month. So you’re gonna wanna call them and check it out.

And if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.

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David Tomen And Ashley James



  • David Tomen on discovering Nootropics and becoming a Nootropics expert.
  • Nootropics and smart drugs. What are those? What is the difference between smart drugs and Nootropics?
  • The importance of knowing which supplements to pick.
  • A walkthrough in taking Nootropics and their different effects.
  • Choosing a high-quality supplement. Things to look for to spot a high-quality supplement.
  • Foods that can promote brain health.




Eyeing to optimize your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price?

For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to www.takeyoursupplements.com, and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price.

That’s www.takeyoursupplements.com

Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.



Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James.


This is Episode 362.


0:00:51.5 Ashley James: I’m very excited to have on the show today a Nootropics expert. His website is www.nootropicsexpert.com. His name is David Tomen.

David, we’re finally getting you on the show.


0:01:06.6 David Tomen: Finally, hi Ashley.


0:01:08.0 Ashley James: Hi. It’s been quite a ride. David and I have been going back and forth and every time, either he was in a car accident, and then I had some crazy flu, and then something else happened. I don’t know. So we finally have you on the show. I think the universe is conspiring and now is the right time.

So I’ve been fascinated and intrigued for months to finally get to talk you about what Nootropics are. We’re definitely getting into that. My very limited understanding is from hearing about certain herbs that will be really good for the brain, or I hear in Silicon Valley how they’ll microdose LSD or mushrooms to try to get the cutting edge on their brain firing and their intelligence and their creativity. So there’s this big weird world out there of neuroscience when it comes to supplements that support the brain. I really enjoyed going to your website, which we’re going to make sure all the links to everything David Tomen does is in the show notes of today’s podcast at www.learntruehealth.com.

And your website list about 90 different neuro tropics and how they work, but we’re going to get into the most interesting ones. Before we do and I definitely want to dive into your story. Can you define what Nootropics are? Can you give us an understanding about what they are and then I’d love to go into your story and learn why you became an expert in them.


0:02:56.1 David Tomen: Generally, like the 30,000 Nootropics are a class of substances that improve brain function. That’s the big picture of it, but the term nootropic is relatively new. There’s a Romanian psychologist and chemist named Dr. Cornelio Gurghiu. He synthesized Piracetam back in 1963, and he coined the term nootropic in 1972 after he invented this new class of substances. And the word nootropic is derived from the Greek “nous” for the mind and “tropein” to bend, so to bend the mind. And then Dr. Ghurghiu went on to define what he thought a true nootropic is, and this is what he said, “A nootropic enhances memory and the ability to learn. It assists brain function under disruptive conditions such as the lack of oxygen, and after convulsive shock, it protects the brain from  chemical and physical toxins like anticholinergic drugs and barbiturates, it increases natural cognitive processes, and it must be non-toxic to humans or stimulate or depress the brain.” That’s officially what a nootropic is.

Now since then, every person has been calling everything that affects the brain one way or another nootropic. And we make a very strong distinction between Nootropics and smart drugs. To my mind, Nootropics are natural substances, sometimes synthetic but mostly synthetic made from a natural substance. It does not include things like Adderall or Ritalin or Modafinil or microdosing LSD. Those aren’t considered Nootropics in my opinion, but you’ll see headlines every week of somebody referring to something like Ritalin is a nootropic, and it’s not. I consider it a smart drug. A nootropic that you do not need a prescription from your doctor to buy. You can get it at Whole Foods at the vitamin shop or your local vitamin store, but you don’t need a prescription.


0:05:28.6 Ashley James: I really like that the distinction is that it actually protects the brain.


0:05:35.3 David Tomen: Yes.


0:05:36.6 Ashley James: And it doesn’t stimulate, so we’re not talking about caffeine. It doesn’t stimulate or depress the brain. So it’s not affecting the serotonin or dopamine. It’s not causing that kind of shift in the chemistry of the brain. It protects the brain, it doesn’t stimulate or depress, and it helps with memory and learning even in adverse conditions.


0:06:06.1 David Tomen: Well, a lot of these substances though do directly affect things like serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine and epinephrine, and they help lower things like cortisol and stuff. Because some of these things are actually the precursor to dopamine or the precursor to serotonin or the precursor to melatonin, so I would classify those as Nootropics, so some of them naturally are natural stimulants to the brain. So we take a little bit of license on what Dr. Ghurgiu’s original. He was referring specifically to the Racetams that he was inventing. And so we have taken a little bit of license since then. In a general sense, some of these things do stimulate the brain to a certain degree, or they depress the brain to a certain degree. When you look at the neurochemistry of how something like gabba works. Gabba is an inhibitor, right? So theoretically, it kind of like depresses the brain but it doesn’t depress the brain like an SSRI would or something like that. Does that make sense?


0:07:22.8 Ashley James: So we want the brain to be in balance.


0:07:25.8 David Tomen: That brain has to be in balance, yes.


0:07:28.3 Ashley James: So you’re saying that Nootropics are more like adaptogenic and that they’re not going to over stimulate or under stimulate, but they’re going to help because they’re precursors to these neurochemicals. Are they going to help the brain to be more in balance? Is that correct?


0:07:44.9 David Tomen: That’s correct to a certain degree. Anyone of these substances you can use too much of it or for somebody that shouldn’t be using a particular substance. It could do something bad to their brain. So you’ve gotta use intelligence and wisdom when it comes to using some of these things, or you could really, really mess yourself up. But the bottom line is that the fully optimized brain, the brain that’s firing on all cylinders has got to be in balance.


0:08:12.6 Ashley James: I like that you brought up this warning. Since we can go to Whole Foods or The Vitamin Shop or wherever to buy these substances, people could be misusing them currently.


0:08:24.7 David Tomen: Yes, and that’s the reason why. I think I reviewed 90 individual substances so far somewhere around that, maybe a little bit more, and I’ve include dosage recommendations which are based on clinical studies and user experience. And often the dosages are different than what’s on the bottle from the manufacturer. It also includes side effects, and I tell people what types to buy too because there are oftentimes different forms like when it comes to extracts and stuff. There’s a specific warning, for example, something like St. John’s Wort, do not use St. John’s Wort if you’re on any kind of an antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication or you will cause serotonin syndrome that could very likely kill you.


0:09:18.7 Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


0:09:21.7 David Tomen: So yeah.


0:09:23.1 Ashley James: Do you ever contact these manufacturers and let them know about the clinical studies that you’ve found?


0:09:29.9 David Tomen: They know it. The bigger manufacturers, the legitimate ones – the ones that have been around for a long time that really know what they’re doing have got the science to back up their products, and oftentimes they’ll publish it. A lot of the stuff that I’ve been doing is cutting edge research though because I just dug in a lot deeper than even the manufacturers have done. But you’ll oftentimes see warnings on the labels of certain supplements that you pick up. Talk to your doctor before you use this or if you are on any medication, do not use this before you talk to your doctor.


0:10:12.0 Ashley James: But they weren’t really putting it on the doctor to know everything.


0:10:16.4 David Tomen: That’s a problem because most doctors don’t know anything about this stuff.


0:10:21.7 Ashley James: Right. I want to talk to you about this all day. So let’s get into your story. What happened in your life, David Tomen, that made you want to get interested and then eventually become an expert in Nootropics?


0:10:34.8 David Tomen: Like everybody else, I just never ever thought about my brain up until about 12 or 13 years ago and I’ve lived an interesting life. I lived all over the world, I’ve helped run companies, but I always had a problem with focus. Every time I had a management review of whatever country I happened to be living in and what company happened to help to run, I was fantastic as an Executive, as a Manager, I was great with people, but you got to learn how to focus. And so I bought the books, and I thought it was a moral feeling that I couldn’t focus. And then 13 years ago, I met this beautiful girl in North Miami Beach, and we ended up getting married. Within a year of us being together, she noticed what was going on and she suggested that I see a psychiatrist that she really respected up in Palm Beach. So I went in to see this guy, and he sat me down, and within 10 minutes he says, “You’re adult ADD and PTSD.” The PTSD part took me 10 years to figure out where that came from but the adult ADD, he put on Ritalin. As soon as I started taking Ritalin, it was like somebody turned the lights onto my brain.


0:12:03.9 Ashley James: Wow.


0:12:04.9 David Tomen: It was like a miracle, and I went, “Oh wow.” But within a couple of years, I started growing a tolerance to Ritalin, and it wasn’t working as well, and I’m going, “No, this ain’t happening. This was working too well.” So I started researching to find out how it worked and I found out that it was a dopamine reuptake inhibitor which means that it blocks the dopamine transporters in your brain so that theoretically it provides more dopamine in your brain which in the truly clinically ADD or ADHD brain, it helps your brain work better, and you can focus better. So I figured, “Ok, I’m lacking dopamine.” So I’ve discovered L-tyrosine. L-tyrosine is a precursor to dopamine, and I started taking that along with acetyl L-carnitine, L-carnitine which helps in the synthesis of acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is necessary for brain cell signaling, and all of a sudden, I wasn’t tolerant to Ritalin anymore. It started working again, and it was working fine. So every day I would take my Ritalin, and I would take L-Tyrosine and acetyl L-carnitine, and it kept on working.

Then about 6 years ago or so I got really, really, really sick. My wife took me to the ER. She thought I was having a heart attack, and it turns out my heart was fine, but I was for some reasons severely hypothyroid all of a sudden. And you’ve seen the symptoms of hypothyroidism. It’s 2 columns of symptoms on a page. I had about three-quarters of those symptoms, and one of them was severe brain fog and memory loss.


0:14:04.2 Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


0:14:05.6 David Tomen: Ashley, I mean complete memory loss. I lost my memory. It was so bad that I ended up seeing 2 different neurologists and they tested me for Alzheimer’s, and it turns out, it wasn’t Alzheimer’s, it wasn’t dementia. They couldn’t tell, they couldn’t figure out what was wrong. And it was because I was hypothyroid and my thyroid had stopped working and thyroid hormones which I understand now but at that time they couldn’t help, and I was desperate. I mean, my marriage was falling apart; we were broke because my business was failing. My life which was completely upside down. And I figured if I’m going to survive this, I got to figure something out. One thing I did remember was my experience with Nootropics and Ritalin and AD. So I just started experimenting with different things, and it took me about 2 and a half years to 3 years, and I finally got my brain working again and that it’s working better than it ever has in my adult life. I was desperate. I had to start experimenting with a bunch of different things until I finally found a protocol that worked for me that healed my brain and I got things running again the way they were supposed to be.



0:15:31.9 Ashley James: Did you heal your thyroid? What happened there?


0:15:35.4 David Tomen: Well, I healed my thyroid. You know what, the funny thing about the thyroid is that every endocrinologist look at TSH and started me on Synthroid which is synthetic T4 and it wasn’t working for me. So again, I started doing some research, and I discovered natural desiccated thyroid. My brother’s a doctor up north, and I had him send me some because I couldn’t find anybody around here to prescribe it for me and I started taking it and all of a sudden I started feeling better. And I finally found a naturopath here in North Miami Beach that would prescribe natural desiccated thyroid for me which is what I’ve been using since. And so, I got the thyroid hormones back to the levels within the range of where they’re supposed to be, and I took the right supplements to finally heal my brain. So it was working again.

After I started feeling better, I decided to shift my marketing focus so that I was just working on one thing, and I started copywriting, and I started writing for natural health companies. There was a guy in England, and he had a nootropic stack that he wanted me to write some advertorials for him. And when I was researching, I wrote 5 advertorials for him and his company which he thought he loved; he thought they were great. But what I discovered when I was researching for writing that sales copy was that the information for Nootropics was scattered all over the place. There was no one central place that I can go to for information; there were no books on it. The last book that was published on this subject was 1992, and so I thought, “Hah! The world needs an authority for Nootropics.” It needs one place for somebody that’s got any kind of a problem with their brain to be able to, and that was the birth of Nootropics Expert.


0:17:52.3 Ashley James: [Laughter] Awesome. Hearing your story, right when you first told me about being rushed to the hospital, I thought, oh no, all the herbs he was taking caused his hypothyroidism.


0:18:09.0 David Tomen: The only thing I was taking at that time was L-tyrosine and acetyl L-carnitine.


0:18:14.0 Ashley James: Right. I just pulled up my phone then the next thing I thought was, what about Ritalin? And it says that one of the side effects of long-term use of Ritalin can be hypothyroidism. Have you considered that maybe that’s what caused your hypothyroidism to become so severe?


0:18:32.7 David Tomen: No. I didn’t because I did an extensive amount of research on methylphenidate which is the chemical term for Ritalin and they’ve been using it since the 1950s, and I looked at tons of clinical studies, and of all the drugs used to treat ADD and ADHD, it’s the safest one out there. You know it’s neither here nor there. Even if it did cause hypothyroidism, that never occurred to me because it wasn’t significant enough to come up in my research.


0:19:10.8 Ashley James: Right.


0:19:11.2 David Tomen: But it doesn’t matter because I discovered that the only way that my brain can work is with some that kind of help.


0:19:18.9 Ashley James: Oh, absolutely. Right.


0:19:22.0 David Tomen: And it needs that kind of help. It’s my job to be able to support it so that it doesn’t get into any other kind of trouble.


0:19:30.3 Ashley James: Right. No, I’m not questioning your past decisions. My belief is if we can find something natural and that looks even better than drugs, then awesome. But if we come up against something, you know drugs are a tool in our tool belt.


0:19:46.5 David Tomen: Yeah.


0:19:47.8 Ashley James: But there are tools because they’re synthetic, there’s a tool that can have a set of side effects.


0:19:54.5 David Tomen: Absolutely.


0:19:55.0 Ashley James: And so we need to just be really responsible and do our research. Dr. Klinghardt who I interviewed, he’s been an MD for 40 years and really interesting guy. I interviewed him, and he became a surgeon and an MD, he received his training in a part of Germany where all doctors also become homeopaths and acupuncturists at the same time as becoming surgeons. So very different kind of training that we get here and his philosophy has been his whole career that he wants to find an herb or a supplement or some kind of a natural remedy that is even better than a drug and he looks to that but if he can’t then he goes to the drug.

So, I’m not questioning that you ever took Ritalin, it’s just more of the – I get curious, and when this body has a symptom, I want to know what happened? So that you can prevent it, right? It’s part of helping your body so I think it’s actually a little comforting to know that the Ritalin might have been the cause of your hypothyroid and that your body left to its own devices without the Ritalin wouldn’t have gone there or wouldn’t have created the hypothyroidism. So I mean just looking at that, but it’s wonderful that the Ritalin helped you find Nootropics so that you could support your brain. And what it actually really was missing along which was dopamine, right? We don’t have a Ritalin deficiency, but it was the gateway that allowed you to discover Nootropics.


0:21:35.4 David Tomen: That’s absolutely true.


0:21:36.5 Ashley James: So we can be grateful for them. But those who have taken ADD medication and have really enjoyed the benefits of it, cannot know that there is a natural way and it’s to help the body have enough dopamine and which is what you were saying. So you just dived into Nootropics, and you became the Nootropics expert. Now, tell me about this thing about drawing a clock. What’s up with that?


0:22:10.6 David Tomen: There’s a couple of different tests they use early on to evaluate to find out if you’ve got Alzheimers or dementia. And one of them is drawing a clock, and then I’m going to give you a time, and I want you to put the time on it, and somebody who has got Alzheimer’s or even early onset Alzheimers has got trouble drawing a clock. They can’t draw the clock properly and can’t put the time in the proper place, but I drew a perfect clock. And then there’s another test that they do; I forgot what the name of the test is called. I think it’s on the website. But they ask you a series of questions, and you have to be able to remember. They test your memory basically, and I came up with top scores on that too. So they knew that it wasn’t Alzheimer’s or dementia.


0:23:14.2 Ashley James: Got it.


0:23:16.7 David Tomen: But it was scary. [Laughter]


0:23:17.9 Ashley James: When you had those symptoms, that was what everyone thought it was going. But because it came so suddenly, dementia doesn’t hit so suddenly. Isn’t it more gradual?


0:23:29.6 David Tomen: Right.


0:23:29.8 Ashley James: Right.


0:23:31.7 David Tomen: I was desperate. I mean, what are you going to do? [Laughter] Your life is completely [inaudible 0:23:38.2] and you’re so, so sick that you can’t make any money to support your family. I mean, you’re desperate. You run to anybody you think of that can help you, and it turns out that nobody could help me. I had to help myself.


0:23:52.8 Ashley James: How did you discover that it was hypothyroidism? Like was it you or did they do tests?


0:23:58.3 David Tomen: In the hospital, they ran a full thyroid lab.


0:24:05.0 Ashley James: And did they go, “Oh, this is what’s causing your memory loss.” Right away or did they just say, “Oh and you have hypothyroidism” then you discovered that hypothyroidism was causing your memory loss?


0:24:19.6 David Tomen: I was the one to discover that.


0:24:22.7 Ashley James: This is what we have to advocate for ourselves, you know? We really need to. Amazing. So what happened then? So there you are, you’re doing copywriting for this man in the UK, and you are really excited about Nootropics, what happened then?


0:24:40.1 David Tomen: I just decided to put up a website and started writing about the stuff that I was learning so that everybody else can learn what I was learning along with me. And I started Nootropics Expert – I don’t know, it was about 3 years ago now. Maybe a little over 3 years ago, 2016 I think the dates on some of the stuff. I didn’t realize that it was that long when I looked and I just started writing and I kept on writing for these companies and doing sales copy for them. I kept on writing this, and one thing just led to another, and I’ve got a YouTube channel now with over 30,000 subscribers and a big email list. I’ve get tens and tens and tens of thousands of people all over the world coming to Nootropics Experts for help.


0:25:32.0 Ashley James: That’s very cool. What do you offer, like you sell them? How do you make money with Nootropics Expert?


0:25:42.8 David Tomen: Good question. I’m an affiliate for some companies. For the guy that I was originally working for, I’m an affiliate for 2 of his lines of supplements, and then I’m an affiliate for other companies for stuff that he doesn’t carry like CBD oil and a couple of other things. I can’t remember right off the top of my head. So I have links on the website, and I get a commission when people buy through the website. I do coaching now, people that can’t figure this stuff out on their own or people that can figure out on their own but they just want help tweaking whatever they’re doing. I offer personal consulting for half an hour or an hour via Skype or phone, depending on where they are in the world. And I have a book, “Head First” that’s been selling really well. I mentioned earlier that the last book on the subject was published in 1992, and it’s called “Smart Drugs II.” That was the last book that was published on Nootropics.


0:26:57.8 Ashley James: Wow.


0:26:58.1 David Tomen: Yeah. So I wrote a book, and it’s almost 600 pages, and I’ve got doctors and naturopaths and nurses and holistic practitioners and all kinds of people including just the [inaudible 0:27:16.8] on the street buying Head First and using it as a guide to help fix whatever their problem is.


0:27:25.4 Ashley James: Now, you had mentioned that your marriage was really upside down during that time when you had dementia and the thyroid.


0:27:32.1 David Tomen: Yeah.


0:27:34.0 Ashley James: Hos is it now? I’m left hanging. How are you guys now?


0:27:39.0 David Tomen: It’s better now. We’re more in love today than we were the day we got married.


0:27:45.8 Ashley James: Did you sneak some kind of Nootropics in her orange juice every morning? [Laughter]


0:27:50.3 David Tomen: No. She’s allergic to this stuff.


0:27:53.3 Ashley James: Oh, that’s funny.


0:27:54.9 David Tomen: I give her a choline supplement and she just goes crazy. So nope. [Laughter]


0:28:02.2 Ashley James: That’s interesting. I have actually had allergic reactions to some adaptogenic herbs. They make my heart race. We have to try it with caution. They can be absolutely amazing. They can be wonderful and life-changing, and we can sometimes have allergic reactions to them, so it’s good to test them a little bit at a time. Maybe you could walk us through some precautions and teach us some of the more common ones and how to take them and what to look for, the ones that people might be accidentally taking because they bought it from Whole Foods, that kind of thing.


0:28:42.6 David Tomen: I get this question often like, what do I do? How do I use Nootropics? And my first question is, what do you wanna fix? Like what’s your problem? Because you’ve got so many options available to you, but unless you can tell me exactly what you’re trying to fix, I can’t really help you. So for example, if you have got a problem with learning and memory, you want to take a look at like Aniracetam and Bacopa Monnieri and CDP choline and L-theanine and DHA. On the other hand if you have a problem with anxiety and depression, you can use some of those same things for anxiety and depression, but you also probably wanna look at things like lithium orotate and sibutramine and Rhodiola Rosea, or if you got a problem with energy and motivation, you wanna look at things like acetyl L-carnitine and alpha lipoic acid and CoQ10 and PQQ. So it depends on what you’re trying to fix. That’s the starting point.

Another thing that I find out from people is like if you’re dealing with depression, are you on medication? If you are on medication, what are you using, and is it working for you? And if the answer is I’m on SSRI, then we find out exactly what’s the mechanism of action of that SSRI, how exactly does it work in your brain and let’s find a natural substance that does exactly the same thing on your brain. So that people can start lessening their dependence on that prescription drug. The same thing with ADHD and ADD, you don’t have to use stimulants. A lot of people can get away with not using them. I came up with an ADHD protocol, and I actually tested it for a year on myself, not using Ritalin, just using the stack I put together, and it worked. Under normal circumstances, I could’ve just used the things that I’ve got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 things in my stack. I used those for a year, and I was fine, but I found that my workload and at my age, I just found that I couldn’t handle my everyday workload without the help of the stimulants, so I started using Ritalin again, but I still use the stack. I know that there are tens of thousands of people managing their ADHD and ADD just with this protocol I put together.


0:31:36.9 Ashley James: Love it, very cool. I recently saw an article  that said that if someone has been on an antidepressant, that their brain chemistry will never be the same again and that they’ll need to be on it for the rest of their life because it forever alters their brain chemistry. has that happened in your experience or if someone has been on an antidepressant in their past, is there a way through Nootropics to support the brain and having healthy levels of serotonin and dopamine and all those chemicals?


0:32:12.0 David Tomen: Well the thing about antidepressants is most of the time it’s difficult to stop them because these things, a lot of antidepressant drugs and anti-anxiety drugs are more addictive than heroin and cocaine and oxycodone. I mean they’re that addictive, and it’s extremely, extremely difficult to wean yourself off of them, and I’m not an expert on that. One person that is is Dr. Kelly Brogan who helps people wean off of antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs and give them the natural route, but it is a rough, rough road. But there are certain Nootropics that you can use to support some antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications, and they help them work better, but they’re very few, and far between because of the time they will cause more problems than they will help.

If somebody has got depression for example and their doctor wants to put them on an antidepressant of some kind, but they’re reluctant to do that, and they come to me and say, “I’m dealing with depression, please help me.” We have to start digging in to what’s causing the depression in the first place because what the big pharmaceutical companies tell you is not a lack of serotonin in your brain, it could be a problem with dopamine, it could be a problem with neurogenesis, it could be a problem with stress, it could be a problem with inflammation. For example, the primary neurotransmitters play a role in depression, get this, acetylcholine, dopamine, glutamate, gabba, norepinephrine, and serotonin – where do you start?


0:34:18.4 Ashley James: Right.


0:34:19.3 David Tomen: Right? And so if a person hasn’t got a clue, if they’ve never used any prescription medication before, so they haven’t got anything to kind of like look at saying, “Yeah this kind of worked.” If they’re starting from scratch, I have them go through this list one at a time and try different nootropic supplements until they find something that works. And this can be a long process, but it’s worth it because you’ll finally get or leave. For example, acetylcholine, the precursors to acetylcholine are alpha GPC or CDP choline, so you can try something like CDP choline or acetylcholine for a little while and see if that helps. If that doesn’t help, then let’s move on dopamine. So you try something else – tyrosine, or N-acetyl L-tyrosine and try that for a few days and see if that helps. Well if that didn’t work, then let’s move onto gabba and let’s try supplementing with GABA for a few days and see if that helps.

Sooner or later you’re gonna get  through this list. If nothing helps in supporting these neurotransmitters, then we know that it’s not a neurotransmitter problem. Then it could be an inflammation problem, so then we start looking at different things that take care of the inflammation. Things like turmeric or curcumin and there are a few other ones that help tame inflammation – pine bark extract or an antioxidant. So, these are the kinds of approaches that we take. It depends on our starting point and what our knowledge level is and what we know about our own body. And one of the reasons why I’ve consulting business too because you can get stressed out just trying to figure this thing out.


0:36:16.7 Ashley James: Yeah, right. What about this idea like a person has enough GABA but there’s something going on with their receptors. How do we resensitize the receptors to uptake the GABA or the serotonin or dopamine?


0:36:34.5 David Tomen: There are some Nootropics that help repair receptors and help in neurogenesis, aniracetam for example, which is one or the racetams that I use every day and it’s one of my favorites. It helps heal dopamine 2 and dopamine 3 receptors. Pine bark extract helps heal receptors, and it helps with neurogenesis, and it helps with cerebral blood flow. So those are just 2 examples. If somebody is looking for this kind of information, they just go to Nootropics Expert and type into the search bar “synapses” and see what turns up or “receptors” and see what turns up.


0:37:23.1 Ashley James: You mentioned blood flow, and that’s really interesting because they’re finding that dementia is basically caused by the vascular flow being cut off and they’re saying that there’s plaque, but a lot of doctors in the holistic space are saying that it’s basically dysregulated blood sugar over many years. Not enough to be diabetes, but you know the state of American diet is way high in sugar and when we can consume, let’s say we go and have ice cream with our family, we have way more blood sugar than our body knows what to do with and if someone regardless whether they’re diabetic or not diabetic, they have higher blood sugar that’s not healthy and this causes systemic inflammation to the whole circulatory system including the brain and we do that enough and the brain ends up being like Swiss cheese in these brain scans where they’re seeing areas of the brain that have such disruption from the vascular flow being harmed from our diet that eventually the brain becomes like Swiss cheese. And so they’re saying that dementia is like a form of diabetes. And you’re saying that you have Nootropics or these supplements that support the brain that increases vascular flow and the health of our vascular system, the circulatory system to the brain – not that we should take that and go eat ice cream, we have to make sure our diet is healthy for our brain as well.

But tell me a bit about these supplements that support the vasculature in the brain.


0:39:11.2 David Tomen: Ok. Let’s just talk about the aging brain in general, and we’ll touch on each of these. We’re talking about prolongs with free radicals in the oxidative stress, and you’re talking about synapses that you already mentioned, and then Alzheimer’s and dementia, and vascular dementia and cerebral circulation and neurotransmitter decline. I actually wrote a post on this that takes a deep dive into how each of these works in the aging brain. What I mean by the aging brain is anybody after 20 has got an aging brain because there are certain neurotransmitters that begin to decline after the age of 20. So everybody can use this help.

For example, free radicals in brain aging, free radicals are when your brain is firing, and it’s doing these tens of thousands of times. You got 10,000 oxidative interactions between DNA and free radicals in each one of your brain cells that occur every day and every minute of every day. But if you have an unhealthy diet particularly, these free radicals can get out of hand, and it causes oxidative stress, and your body tries to cope with it because it’s got a built-in anti-oxidant system. So you’ve got things like vitamin C and vitamin E and CoQ10 already naturally in your body, but it hasn’t got enough to be able to cope with the workload. So we can use things like alpha lipoic acid which is a naturally occurring fatty acid that is both fat and water soluble, and it has a unique ability to neutralize free radicals in all cellular environments, and it helps boost the synthesis of acetylcholine, and it increases glucose uptake in brain cells. It also helps regenerate other depleted antioxidants like vitamin C, E, and glutathione and it recycles CoQ10 that’s already in your body, and it gets rid of heavy metals. So you can start supplementing with alpha lipoic acid, CoQ10 is a natural antioxidant that’s synthesized in every single cell on your body and your brain, and it helps adenosine triphosphate which is the fuel that the mitochondria use in your brain cells. So we just supplement with extra CoQ10 to help support what’s already gone in our mitochondria.

Creatine. People in athletic circles use creatine to help them, but it’s an essential amino acid that’s synthesized in your liver that your body uses to recharge adenosine triphosphate to fuel mitochondria. So we can add creatine to our diet. Creatine that we’re not already getting from food that boosts cellular metabolism and helps protect neurons from damage caused by toxins. And I can go on about just free radicals.

And then we get into synapses like we talked about earlier. Ashwagandha is an old ayurvedic remedy that recent researches found regenerates axons and dendrites and it helps reconstruct synapses. Artichoke extract is a natural PDE4 inhibitor which supports the cAMP, which is a secondary messenger, and it stimulates the production of CREB. The CREB is cAMP’s response element-binding protein. It’s a protein needed for new neuron synthesis in synapse growth, and it increases long term potentiation which is needed for encoding long term memories.

Berberine is an amazing supplement. It enhances synaptic plasticity, it reduces the aggregation of amyloid B protein that leads to Alzheimer’s, and it helps reduce the protein Tau, which is associated with Alzheimer’s, and it works as in antioxidant. And I use it because my naturopath says I’m insulin resistant. It works as well as metformin, but it doesn’t have the side effects. So I use berberine. So that’s synapses.

For cerebral circulation, if you wanna get more blood flow moving in your brain. I find the 2 most effective supplements are one, pine bark extract – it’s used primarily on nootropic circles to increase cerebral blood flow, but we’ve also found that it’s a very, very potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory. And the other one that I love is vinpocetine, which is a semi-synthetic derivative of the Lesser Periwinkle plant, and I use that every day.


0:45:00.1 Ashley James: Can you say it again?


0:45:04.3 David Tomen: Vinpocetine.


0:45:04.8 Ashely James: And it’s a semi-synthetic, can you explain what that means?


0:45:09.0 David Tomen: It’s derived from the Lesser Periwinkle plant in the lab. It’s an alkaloid that’s derived from the Lesser Periwinkle plant. It’s used as a prescription drug in a lot of countries, but here you can still get it as a supplement, and I use it just increase blood flow. It’s amazing.


0:45:34.0 Ashley James: In the countries that it is a drug, what is it prescribed for?


0:45:38.3 David Tomen: Blood flow. It’s prescribed for things like Alzheimer’s.


0:45:43.0 Ashley James: Interesting.


0:45:44.4 David Tomen: And stroke patients.


0:45:49.6 Ashley James: Really cool. So you must have a protocol for those who are recovering from stroke?


0:46:01.5 David Tomen: Kind of like what we just talked about because a stroke wreaks havoc on your brain and one of the problems with stroke is that your antioxidant system cannot keep up with the oxidative damage that’s been going on. So some of the stuff that we just talked about and a dozen other supplements that I’ve got in the same list. Somebody that’s dealing with stroke, I had encouraged them to put together at least half a dozen of these and start taking them right away.

I also have written about PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) and TBI (traumatic brain injury). Treating TBI is like treating stroke because TBI causes the same kind of problems in the brain, and you’re dealing with axon injury, and you’re dealing with problems of the cerebral circulation, glutamate overload, and you’re dealing with glucose and mitochondria getting out of whack and you’re dealing with an NMDA receptors that are not working properly. Then I’ve got a list of about 12 supplements for dealing with concussion or TBI. And I actually wrote this particular post after one of the hurricanes because a lot of people that survive a hurricane or any kind of a natural disaster like that are dealing with PTSD and they don’t even realize it or TBI when they get knocked in the head by something.


0:48:06.9 Ashley James: Absolutely and concussions are so common, and there’s no treatment for them. They just say stay awake and go home and rest. Rest but don’t fall asleep and that’s it.


0:48:18.1 David Tomen: That’s just not true. You can do real things to help your brain, but there are no prescription drugs that I know of that can help heal your brain, but you can use things like creatine and DHA which is an omega 3 and green tea and N-acetyl L-cysteine, or NAC, resveratrol, turmeric, the B vitamins. All of these things can help you recover from that kind of brain injury.


0:48:51.3 Ashley James: What about helping the body heal like a motor neuron lesion or a spinal cord injury? I have a friend in the hospital right now who had an operation from stenosis and now they’re paralyzed, and the doctor believes that they will regain. It will probably take 4 years, but they’ll regain the ability to walk again. How can we support the nervous system in healing from that kind of trauma?


0:49:20.3 David Tomen: Some of the things that I just talked about for concussion and TBI, but I would also use lion’s mane mushroom. Lion’s mane mushroom is an amazing supplement if you’ve ever seen a picture of it, it looks like a lion’s mane. It’s the strangest looking mushroom. But the lion’s mane helps better than anything in neurogenesis, and there was one study done, and I think this study was done in Malaysia where they used lab rats, and they were mean to these rats. They crushed their gluteal nerves so they couldn’t walk which kind of breaks my heart but then the next thing that happened was they gave them lion’s mane laced water to drink. Within 2 weeks, their gluteal nerves have healed, and the rats were walking again.


0:50:19.5 Ashley James: Did they have a group of rats they did not give the lion’s mane too?


0:50:25.5 David Tomen: Yup.


0:50:26.4 Ashley James: Were they able to walk again?


0:50:28.7 David Tomen: No, they weren’t. They are permanently crippled.


0:50:31.9 Ashley James: Amazing. I mean sad for the rats, I don’t like hearing that kind of experiment to any animal but also very amazing that lion’s manes can help people that well.


0:50:44.9 David Tomen: It’s incredible.


0:50:47.3 Ashley James: How much would one need to take? What are the doses of these kinds of things?


0:50:51.1 David Tomen: A lion’s mane is anywhere from 400mg to up to some people take 1200mg a day. Something like that is perfectly safe to take in really, really big doses. You don’t have to worry about overdosing on it. Some of these things, they won’t hurt you other than give you like an upset stomach, if you take too much of it or take too much of it at once. Oftentimes when you’re taking bigger doses of some of these things, it’s better to split your dose into 2 or 3 doses per day. So you take 1 in the morning, 1 at noon, 1 in the afternoon. But yeah lion’s mane, absolutely.


0:51:34.1 Ashley James: Very interesting. I have a friend who was on the street at some point and was addicted to meth, and she has since recovered, but she says that it’s as if there’s no happiness in her life. That’s just in her brain, right? And the only way to get back to normal, or to get back to just like how you and I would feel on an average day – that level of happiness would take meth. Not even to get her to feel high or overly happy, but just to feel normal.


0:52:17.5 David Tomen: I understand. You’re dealing with a TBI, you really are. Now I am no doctor, I don’t even play one on TV, but it’s common sense to me that the same things that work for somebody with a concussion or TBI, somebody in that kind of a situation, I would encourage them to use the same types of supplements, but the thing is there’s no one pill solution. There just isn’t. We’ve been conditioned to think that there’s a one pill solution, but there’s not. It’s gonna take at least a half a dozen supplements and taking it for a long time until you start feeling some relief. Because the brain, how long it’d take to damage the brain – you know it took you years. So, fortunately, it doesn’t take years to help the brain recover. You can do it in a few months, but you’ve got to be diligent and stick to it and religiously take this stuff every single day until you start feeling some relief.


0:53:26.5 Ashley James: What about addiction? What about like someone who is addicted – alcohol, or maybe even food addiction, or porn addiction. Is there a protocol that helps people to balance their brains, so they don’t have the compulsion or that addiction? 


0:53:42.8 David Tomen: You know there’s not really a protocol, and I haven’t looked into in that deeply but there are a couple of supplements that I had reviewed that I remember seeing either anecdotal evidence or clinical studies showing that people were not as prone to addiction when they were using it, and I cannot remember off the top of my head what they were. You know what Ashley, I just don’t remember what they are but I know that they exist. It’s not a miracle cure by any stretch, and it’s not gonna make you stop drinking by taking it, but it reduces the tendency to want to do that. I think that possibly Mucuna Pruriens L-dopa may be one of them.


0:54:49.0 Ashley James: And someone could book a consultation with you, and you can go dive into the research?


0:54:55.1 David Tomen: That’s exactly what I do.


0:54:57.9 Ashley James: Right. What about 5 HTP, is that a nootropic?


0:55:04.2 David Tomen: I can say that it’s a nootropic, but you got to be super careful with it.


0:55:07.8 Ashley James: Why is that?


0:55:08.7 David Tomen: Because people take too high overdosing themselves from their trouble. You got to understand the serotonin pathway. It goes L-tryptophan to 5 HTP to serotonin to melatonin. So somebody is depressed, and they feel like they need to boost serotonin, the first thing they do is they grab 5 HTP and 500mg of HTP, and they overdose which is an overdose, and they feel like crap the next day, and they don’t know what went wrong. It’s a lot safer to do something like L-tryptophan and take 500mg or 750mg before you go to sleep and you’ll feel better the next day. 5 HTP you dose like 25mg at a time, but you can’t find a 25mg of 5 HTP supplement. The lowest dose I’ve been able to find is 100mg.


0:56:14.4 Ashley James: Right. Yeah.


0:56:16.4 David Tomen: So what I do is because I use so much to boost dopamine, I have to keep serotonin in balance. I use L-tryptophan before I go to sleep, but during the day I also use 5 HTP, but I get a 100mg lozenge, and I use a pill splitter, and I cut it in quarters. And when I feel like my serotonin is a little bit out of whack compared to dopamine, I just put 25mg under my tongue


0:56:50.0 Ashley James: How does one know?


0:56:52.2 David Tomen: You just feel it


0:56:53.5 Ashley James: How do you feel? Like for someone who has never distinguished what serotonin versus dopamine feels, what are the symptoms of too much serotonin versus too little?


0:57:06.5 David Tomen: I can tell you more with too much dopamine than serotonin. Too much dopamine – because dopamine turns into norepinephrine and turns to epinephrine which is you fight or flight hormone, you get really irritable and sharp with people and antsy, your dopamine system is out of whack. Too much serotonin is you just feel like you’re sick. But it’s unlike sick that I can describe because it’s unlike anything else I’ve ever felt, it just feels really weird. I can’t even describe the feeling, Ashley. I just know that feeling. [Laughter]


0:57:57.2 Ashley James: So how do you bring dopamine down then, if you have too much of it?


0:58:03.9 David Tomen: Boost serotonin. Dopamine and serotonin play off of each other.


0:58:09.9 Ashley James: Got it.


0:58:10.6 David Tomen: They have to be in balance. If dopamine is too high, you suppress serotonin or serotonin is too high. You depress dopamine.


0:58:18.0 Ashley James: So if you’re antsy, irritable, and kind of short-tempered with people then take some l-tryptophan at night and see if that does the job. Taking at night, that does that then help boost serotonin all day long the next day?


0:58:33.5 David Tomen: It does, and it helps you sleep because it eventually turns into melatonin.


0:58:38.4  Ashley James: And is that a supplement that someone can take over the counter?


0:58:41.8 David Tomen: Yes.


0:58:43.2 Ashley James: It’s still available?


0:58:45.5 David Tomen: The L-tryptophan is readily available.


0:58:48.1 Ashley James: Okay, great. I don’t know. I heard something about it being taken off the counter.


0:58:54.1 David Tomen: I heard that too, and I have no idea where people got that information from.


0:59:00.1 Ashley James: But it’s a naturally occurring amino acid in Turkey.


0:59:03.8 David Tomen: Yeah. I know, I looked into this one time when somebody else mentioned that. There was a problem with one particular manufacturer of L-tryptophan.


0:59:15.0 Ashley James: Oh, right.


0:59:17.5 David: They were putting out an adulterated supplement or something. I don’t remember exactly what the story was, but it was a bad batch, and it made headlines, and it was taken off the market, and everybody said L-tryptophan has been taken off the market. That’s not true. It was taken off the market from this one particular manufacturer because they had a bad batch that went out.


0:59:42.0 Ashley James: Ok.


0:59:43.1 David Tomen: And that happened years ago.


0:59:44.6 Ashley James: Yeah a long time ago.


0:59:46.1 David Tomen: And people are still talking about it. It’s amazing.


0:59:48.4 Ashley James: Right. Let’s bust that myth. It’s available. We can get it. You don’t need to get to Turkey to get your L-tryptophan. [Laughter]


0:59:55.6 David Tomen: The last one I got was from Amazon.


0:59:59.3 Ashley James: Interesting. I mean really buy or beware in the supplement space. I know that you are an affiliate of some brands that you like. Do you have any advice for watching out, like what kind of companies shouldn’t one buy from?


1:00:19.0 David Tomen: That’s a really good question. I wrote a post called “7 Tips for Choosing the Highest Quality of Nootropics Supplements,” and I went through how I think about this. The first thing to look for is brand names. And by brand names I don’t mean like Walgreens or CVS or GNC or Target, that’s not what I mean by brand names. By brand names, I mean like Gaia Herbs, Doctor’s Best, Nature’s Way, Irwin Naturals – those kinds of brand names. That’s the first thing that I look at. The next thing I look at is if they’ve got any kind of quality assurance, and the way to find out about this is to go to their website. The first thing you can  find out is if it makes sense. If it’s natural, is it USDA organic, right? Has it got the seal on it? The other thing to look for is the certificate of analysis, and some of these manufacturers will actually put a certificate of analysis for each batch that they put on their website.


1:01:44.7 Ashley James: Nice.


1:01:46.4 David Tomen: So you can use the batch code on the supplement and go to their website and download the certificate of analysis. The certificate of analysis tells you exactly what a third party testing lab found in that capsule or tablet, including how much of the supplement that the manufacturer claimed was there. Is it really in there and is there anything else in there? Are there heavy metals in there? Is there something that’s should not be in there completely?

A couple of years ago the New York Attorney General sent letters to places like Target and Walgreens and GNC and some other big retailers that had private label supplements on the shelf that they had tested the supplements for things like ginkgo biloba and Rhodiola and found there was nothing in the capsule but wheatgrass. Right? So that’s why I say, do not buy a private label from any of these retailers, unless they can prove what’s in their capsule or tablet.


1:03:01.3 Ashley James: Right.


1:03:01.7 David Tomen: The other thing to look for is the US Pharmacopeia. If it’s USP verified, that can be good and bad. That can be good because somebody went into that facility and tested their products and verified that what’s in the capsule or tablet is really in there and they have the USP stamp of approval on it. Where this does not help is when it comes to things like vitamins and minerals because you don’t really want a USP Pharmacopoeia stamp of approval on vitamins and minerals because the minerals are ground up rock and something that your body can’t use.

NSF International is an independent non-profit organization that provides certification for dietary supplements. You can look for their seal. Lab Door is an international and independent company who buys products off of retail shelves and online, and then they test them for active ingredients and potential contaminants and publish it on their website.

Consumer Lab has got a similar kind of deal. It’s an independent subscription-based service that tests dietary supplements to see what’s in the capsule or tablet. But  a word of caution about Consumer Lab, because the company doesn’t disclose the brand names of supplements that fail their testing.


1:04:45.7 Ashley James: Ew.


1:04:46.7 David Tomen: If the manufacturer has paid them their $4,000 yearly fee.


1:04:52.6 Ashley James: Ew. So basically what they publish is safe, but they don’t publish anything that it might not be safe?


1:05:03.8 David Tomen: Right, yeah. I don’t completely trust Consumer Lab.


1:05:11.0 Ashley James: Well, if you can pay them off to have them not be a whistleblower then, yeah.


1:05:17.9 David Tomen: The other thing to look for is therapeutic dosages. The thing is that there is no therapeutic dosage. So if somebody says in their advertising or on the label that this has got a therapeutic dosage in it, for individual dietary supplements, there is no established therapeutic dosage. There is the dosage that we found through clinical studies and actual user experience to find out what works.


1:05:47.2 Ashley James: Right.


1:05:49.4 David Tomen: So it’s [inaudible 1:05:49.2] It is not true.

The other thing to look for and this is extremely important, are the other ingredients. If you take a look at the back of a supplement bottle on the bottom of the list of ingredients, there is a thing called “other ingredients.” And under other ingredients are things to help increase shelf life, to bind tablets together, to improve consistency, to improve moisture resistance, to help stabilize ingredients, to add bulk like to fill a capsule, and to add color and flavor – all the stuff that you don’t really need. Right?

Some of this stuff could be really bad for you.

Cellulose is a binding or a thickening agent that you’ll see on a lot of supplements. It’s cellulose. It doesn’t do anything. It’s not good for you. It’s not bad for you. It just shouldn’t be in there.

Magnesium stearate or vegetable stearate or stearic acid is a flow agent or a lubricant that speeds up their manufacturing process. So it stops the ingredients from sticking to the mechanical equipment, and it’s also added to tablets to make it easier to swallow. The problem with magnesium stearate is it suppresses your natural killer T-cells.


1:07:20.7 Ashley James: Oh no.


1:07:24.3 David Tomen: And you can see magnesium stearate in a lot of supplements, even big brand names that you would otherwise trust.

Titanium dioxide is a pigment used to provide color. The problem with titanium dioxide is that it leads to mitochondrial dysfunction. It damages astrocyte cells, which leaves them unable to absorb glutamate and it induces potent oxidative stress and mitochondrial damage in luteal cells.

Silica is an anti-clumping agent that stops ingredients to mechanical equipment that you see in a lot of supplements.

Probably the safest one that you’ll see there is rice flour. It’s used as a filler.

I look for supplements that have as few as or no extra ingredients. The companies that I mentioned that I’m an affiliate for on Nootropics Expert – Performance Lab and Mind Lab Pro, there is zero other ingredients in their products.


1:08:31.8 Ashley James: Very cool.


1:08:33.3 David Tomen: Zero. Nothing. Zip.

The other thing that you want to look for is bio availability, which is really important when it comes to things like turmeric because turmeric is really poorly absorbed. So you want to find a turmeric supplement that the manufacturer has – you’ll see patented turmeric or curcumin ingredients that manufacturers have found some way to make them more bioavailable. One way to make turmeric more bioavailable is to take with Bioperine or piperine. Clinical studies show that it increases absorption by 2,000%.


1:09:17.1 Ashley James: Wow.


1:09:18.8 David Tomen: Another example is L-tyrosine, which is the amino acid that is directly involved in the synthesis of dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. The problem is that it’s not very bioavailable and it’s not officially absorbed when it’s taken as a nootropic supplement for some people. So to boost the bioavailability of L-tyrosine, they add an acetyl group to it, so it’s called N-acetyl L-tyrosine or NALT. And that seems to boost availability. I find that my body can use either one or the other, but some people can only use L-tyrosine. Some people can only use NALT.

You want to make sure they’re in the right form and that when they’re stacked with other ingredients that they’re working synergistically together and not working against each other. And that is a completely other subject, that’s for a whole other podcast because there’s too much to talk about there. But you’ve got have the right ingredients put together and the right dosages for the thing to work.

And the last thing is extracts versus the whole herb. Sometimes an extract will work better than a whole herb. Lion’s mane mushroom, for example, some people will argue that the whole fruit works better than an extract, but there are other products were the extract, like an extract of turmeric or curcumin for example that works better for some things. So, just be aware of that. One particular supplement could be more effective if it’s in an extract and another supplement could be more effective if you’re using the whole herb.

So, that’s it. I got a little checklist and I kind of like do this automatically while I’m looking. Brand name; quality which includes country of origin and certificate of analysis or certified organic; certification which includes certificate of analysis, bioavailability, other ingredients, and extracts. I go through that in my head before I choose something.


1:11:58.0 Ashley James: Very good. I like that it was thorough. I really like that.


1:12:05.4 David Tomen: Because there’s so much garbage out there.


1:12:07.9 Ashley James: Oh yeah, totally. I had a guy on the show all about mushrooms, and he has been in the mushroom industry for over 30 years. He was a farmer of mushrooms and then got into medicinal mushrooms, and now he has a company that grows them organically in China, and he talked about how most mushrooms, and he talked about the difference between myceliated mushroom and the actual whole mushroom. Micilianated means that the farmer here, let’s say in the U.S., you get this lion’s mane supplement and you’re all excited because it says, “grown organically in the U.S.” And you think, “Excellent, what’s grown in the U.S. must be better than what’s grown in China.” And you take it, and nothing happens because it’s myceliated which means that took a bunch of rice and then they put lion’s mane to grow in it as like a mushroom and the lion’s mane made little sort of mushroom roots, the mycelia. And then they took the entire batch including all mostly rice and grounded up and popped it into a capsule, and then they say, “You know there’s some rice in there for whatever filler.” I don’t even know if they have to declare that the rice is there because it’s part of the farming practice, but that it’s 90% rice and only 10% lion’s mane and you take 2 a day thinking you’re getting 2 full capsules of lion’s mane when you’re not. And he has little experiment; he said go get some iodine which you can get at a drugstore and take it 2 capsules of your mushroom supplement and dump it into a little glass of water and mix it up and then put a few drops of iodine. If it turns black, then it is myceliated. It’s 90% rice or some kind of cornstarch or something – you know if it’s not rice, then it’s corn. But they grow it in basically a grain, and so your mushroom supplement is not pure if the water turns black because iodine reacts to the starch.


1:14:20.9 David Tomen: What color does it turn up, if it’s real mushroom?


1:14:25.4 Ashley James: I think it doesn’t react. It’s just iodine color.


1:14:32.6 David Tomen: What a great idea.


1:14:33.6 Ashley James: Because iodine turns black when exposed to starch. I mean you could take cornstarch and put iodine in it, it’s gonna turn into a really dark color. It’s gonna change color.


1:14:42.5 David Tomen: They used to call it black porridge in Russia. The iodine in potato starch, anyway that’s a whole other story. There’s a supplement company that I just started working with that came over from Kazakhstan that based all of their research off of this guy in Russia who ended up in the goo log and saved the entire goo log from dying of dysentery with black porridge, and it was iodine and potato starch.


1:15:14.2 Ashley James: Very interesting. Yeah, it turned black exactly. So that what happens. You can use iodine to basically test the purity of your mushroom supplement. But just to complement your elaborate checklist of what to go through when looking for quality, it’s not necessarily where a supplement is created. I guess I just had a bit of ignorance around that. I thought if it’s from the U.S. or if it’s from Canada, then it must be the best or much better than if it’s from Asia – it’s just not true. That yes, Asia can have contaminated water, contaminated air just like we can, but that this one man that I had on the show, he said that his mushroom farms are in this part of China that’s on the mountains where the cleaner air and the mountain water and he has all of his stuff tested in China, and then he comes back and has it tested again for heavy metals and all that kind of stuff.

We want to go through your checklist to make sure that the lab tests are available or the company is willing to share it  and that it’s off that batch, not just from any batch and that they’re comfortable with things being certified organic and having third-party lab tests to prove that they’re safe. And so, we just want to be diligent when going through these supplements.

I really like your tip on taking 750mg of L-tryptophan at night. if someone feels that their serotonin might be low, my naturopath put me on serotonin because I eat a really clean diet and I was noticing that – and what I mean by really clean is no processed sugar, no junk food, plant-based, and I was having these cravings at night and I was feeling sort of a little bit down. I would not say depressed by any means, but just a little bit low, and she thought this might be serotonin. I also told her that I take melatonin at night to fall asleep. So she gave me 100mg of 5 HTP to take in the morning, and I started digging into all the studies and I saw that there were studies were they did 500mg in short term, 2 and 4 week increments and the people that they did it are people who were obese and had cravings and that those people after taking 500mg a day of 5 HTP would naturally just didn’t want to consume as much carbohydrates and so they lost weight.


1:18:17.9 David Tomen: Interesting.


1:18:18.8 Ashley James: Yeah. I thought that was interesting. So I decided to do a plain experiment on myself, and I doubled the those that my naturopath gave me. I did 100 in the morning and 100 at night, and I promptly began to feel horrible and had to run to the bathroom. It actually gave 3 days of diarrhea, that’s the only change I did. And so, of course, I love experimenting on myself. So I did this experiment a few times just to prove that yes, increasing it was not great, but I also noticed that I felt kind of airy like in a really happy way. I mean I don’t drink, but it was almost like my brain just felt a little fuzzy, but in a spacey – I just want to space out and watch cartoons kind of way. So it was definitely doing something, altering my chemistry but in going too far in one direction, I’d say.

Actually what’s really interesting I think is that for the first few days of taking 5 HTP, I noticed a huge increase in cravings and I thought, what is going on? [Laughter]

I since stopped taking it, but I did take it for a few months, and I feel as though my body then just adapted to it, and I started to feel normal again. And now that I’m off it, I don’t really feel any different. I do have a listener who told me that she found herself one morning inconsolably crying in her kitchen, I think she said. And she couldn’t figure out why she was so depressed until she realized she had ran out of 5 HTP 3 or 4 days prior. So she got back on it and promptly began to feel like her wonderful self again. And so she says anytime she runs out of it she just feels horrible, and when she gets on it, she feels amazing.

So for some people, these Nootropics are quite life changing.


1:20:20.5 David Tomen: For a lot of people they’re really life-changing, but every single body is unique and different. And how you react is oftentimes completely different to how I’m gonna react to something.


1:20:37.0 Ashley James: Right.


1:20:38.6 David Tomen: You mentioned too about food and your diet. One of the things that I did when I got really sick about 6 years ago, hypothyroid and stuff, I really cleaned up my diet. But one of the things that I discovered since is that you can clean up your diet so that you’ve got the cleanest diet on earth and you’re eating the best food that man produces on earth, and you’re still lacking in certain vitamins and minerals. You just are, because our food supply cannot provide the nutrients that our body and brain needs to function properly anymore.


1:21:19.9 Ashley James: Yeah, it’s amazing.


1:21:23.6 David Tomen: There was a randomized placebo-controlled trial at North 1:21:28.0?? University with 215 health men aged 30 to 55. These guys were given a multivitamin or a placebo for 33 days. These guys were tested at the beginning of the study and then again at the end of the study for mood, stress, memory, and general health. After 33 days of using a daily multivitamin, the researchers reported a significant improvement in general mental health, reduced stress, increased vigor, and overall improvement in mood. And the men who used multivitamins during the trial also showed improved memory and reduced mental fatigue. The placebo group experienced no significant changes.


1:22:11.7 Ashley James: Amazing.


1:22:13.2 David Tomen: Now, why is this? It’s a problem with our food supply. A lot of the reasons why we’re sick with one thing or another is because we’re not getting the nutrients that we need. There was a study in 2004 on fruits and vegetables, and they found that everything from protein, iron, vitamin C significantly declined since 1950 and they looked at the data for 13 nutrients across 43 vegetable crops. And research of fruits and vegetables show that minerals, vitamins, and protein content has dropped significantly over the last 15 to 70 years. But the problem is not just big agra, right? And problem with the depleting soil, there’s also a problem with our air.

There’s a guy named Irakli Loladze who’s a mathematician by training, and he studied nutrient and vitamin levels in plants for 15 years. And Loladze found that the earth’s atmosphere had 200 parts per million of carbon dioxide before the industrial revolution and last year they’re playing across over 400 parts per million for carbon dioxide. Now, that might seem like a good thing because plants thrive on carbon dioxide. Higher  carbon dioxide levels aid in photosynthesis which means that increased plant growth and more food, but the problem is that this increase in rapid growth also leads to plants that are creating more carbohydrates like glucose instead of other nutrients that our bodies and brains need like protein, iron, and zinc.


1:23:58.6 Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


1:24:01.5 David Tomen: Yeah, it’s just the air. And so everybody that I talked to, I say, “Are you using a multivitamin?” Because you have to, it is the simplest, simplest thing that you can do for your health. But the problem also is choosing the wrong multivitamin, because you can go to the drugstore or into your supermarket and you can see Centrum and One a Day, and you look at the label, and you have no idea what you’re looking at. What you’re looking at is you’re looking at vitamin B1 that exist in food in the form of thiamine pyrophosphate, the vitamin B1 in that Centrum multivitamin is thiamine mononitrate which is a coal tar derivative.


1:24:55.9 Ashley James: A coal tar  derivative.


1:24:59.5 David Tomen: Yeah.


1:25:00.2 Ashley James: You’ve got to be kidding me.


1:25:01.6 David Tomen: No. you can go through the whole list of vitamins, and then you go through the list of minerals. And the minerals are basically and literally ground up rock.


1:25:14.7 Ashley James: Well iron, is it like iron oxide or something which is basically rust?


1:25:19.4 David Tomen: No.


1:25:21.0 Ashley James: It’s not bioavailable.


1:25:23.1 David Tomen: Iron is very bioavailable if it comes from a plant.


1:25:26.6 Ashley James: Right.


1:25:28.9 David Tomen: So what you want to do is you want to find a whole food or a raw food multivitamin that has been grown from something like yeast. They grow it from other things like brewer’s yeast that has the same cofactors. It’s exactly the same thing that you get from food. But you gotta be careful because when you’re looking at these labels, if it says, “No USP nutrients” or “100% food” or “No synthetic nutrients,” you know that it’s artificial.


1:26:07.1 Ashley James: Why?


1:26:11.2 David Tomen: 100% food-based vitamins are grown in yeast culture. So you’ll something that has 16 natural capsules, and it says, “Yeast free” that’s a big dangerous signal right there. Because if it says yeast free on the label, you know that it’s synthetic. A really good multivitamin, if you open it up and it smells like yeast – like what you find in the kitchen, it’s good.

So Performance Lab, the company that I am an affiliate for came up with a multivitamin that’s got just nutrients, just the vitamins and minerals and nothing else. There’s no other added ingredients or anything, and everything is grown from yeast, and it’s the first time that I’ve actually taken a multivitamin that I actually felt the difference.


1:27:06.6 Ashley James: Very cool.


1:27:09.6 David Tomen: I felt better using this thing. I wrote an article about this, and I’ve got pictures of the labels in this post, about what you typically find on these multivitamins and it’s just scary. It’s scary, and when you see headlines like “Experts say that taking multivitamins a waste of time because all you’re doing is you’re peeing the stuff out.” Well yeah, it’s true you’re peeing it out because it’s inorganic and your body isn’t using it.


1:27:53.3 Ashley James: But also in order for you to even to get to your kidneys, you absorbed it and went into your bloodstream and bathe every cell in your body.


1:28:04.7 David Tomen: Yeah. You did some kind of damage. [Laughter]


1:28:08.9 Ashley James: So are you saying that niacin or the B vitamins that are grown in yeast don’t change the color or urine at all?


1:28:20.1 David Tomen: Yeah, they will.


1:28:21.4 Ashley James: They do change the color of urine?


1:28:24.8 David Tomen: Sure, they can.


1:28:25.6 Ashley James: Right. But when someone starts peeing more fluorescent yellow and then someone says, “Well, you’re just peeing out your vitamins.” So let’s assume that what they took was a healthy multivitamin that was plant-derived, their body absorbed it into their bloodstream and bathe every cell in their body, their cells were able to utilize it and because they’re water soluble the kidneys immediately start to remove any excess but at least it got to every cell in the body and usually what happens between 2 and 4 weeks of taking a really good quality of multivitamin that the color of their urine will go back to normal, also presuming that they’re drinking enough water. The body then becomes better at utilizing all the nutrients that it’s being  given. You brought up Centrum. People don’t even absorb it. There’s a man I met who owns a company in Florida, a porta potty business and there’s a catch that catches things and then when they go to clean them, it catches like it’s associated through a stone in there. The catch would catch these hard objects, so when they’re cleaning them, they can tell you which Centrum the person took because it still says Centrum Silver on it after it’s been sitting in a porta potty.


1:30:01.7 David Tomen: That’s amazing.


1:30:04.1 Ashley James: And gone through someone’s digestive tract. We don’t even digest or absorb these over the counter.


1:30:12.4 David Tomen: And people don’t know.


1:30:13.4 Ashley James: Right.


1:30:15.3 David Tomen: They don’t know that when they take a multivitamin, it should make them feel better. [Laughter] It really should. They should actually feel the difference.


1:30:25.3 Ashley James: Right. Yeah.


1:30:27.1 David Tomen: I do, and I eat well too.


1:30:31.6 Ashley James: Right. And I wanted to ask you what your thoughts were on a healthy diet for the brain. Are there foods that are known to support brain health? Or just a general diet overall, what foods are best for brain health?


1:30:46.9 David Tomen: The nutrients that you get from fruits and vegetables and healthy fats. Healthy fats are really important because you gotta think that your brain is  60% fat, right? Most of that fat in your brain is DHA. So eating good grass-fed meats, for example, or wild seafood like wild salmon – is the best brain health and for overall health, but you still need a multivitamin on top of that.


1:31:32.6 Ashley James: You know I was really sick about 8 years ago. I had type 2 diabetes, chronic fatigue, and chronic infections. I was told I’d never have kids since I was 19 seeing an endocrinologist. They told me I’d never have kids and I had polycystic ovarian syndrome and infertility. My husband turned on some random podcast interview. This was 9 years ago with a naturopath who was talking about just like what you’re talking about how as a society we are completely deficient, especially in 60 minerals. But we’re completely deficient because we can. no longer get all the nutrients, all the 16 vitamins, the 12 amino acids, the 2 fatty acids, the 60 minerals – we can’t them in the quantities we need anymore for multiple reasons like you’ve mentioned – the higher levels of carbon dioxide. If that’s higher, then the plant is just gonna grab it more which is we want plants to do that to filter the air, but it’s gonna end up creating more sugar, more carbohydrates, and less of everything else in each plant. So even if we’re just eating a vegan diet, we’re still not getting what we got 100 years ago. But the farming practices in the last 150 years, the farmers have not re-mineralized their soil, they only put an NPK back in, and if you go to an organic farm, they put compost in, but we’re not re-mineralizing soil. And so if spinach isn’t grown in iron-rich soil, it’s not going to be a good source of spinach. I love it when people say, “I eat 3 Brazil nuts a day for my selenium.” And my question to them is how do you know they were grown in selenium-rich soil because plants do not make minerals. And so this naturopath was going on about this, and by the end of the interview I called him up because I was so intrigued. My husband actually urged me, too; please call this guy. We were suffering. We got to do something about this. I switched my diet around; within days, I started to feel better. I could not believe. Actually, within 24 hours, my constant hunger went away because I had these horrible blood sugar swings. Within 5 days, my energy came back, it’s like I got my brain back, and within 3 months, I was no longer diabetic. My chronic adrenal fatigue subsided. it took us just a few years, but we conceived naturally without doing anything else other than cleaning our diet and taking supplements.


1:34:25.6 David Tomen: Isn’t it amazing?


1:34:26.1 Ashley James: Yeah and we have a healthy, wonderful 4-year-old boy and none of these would have been possible had it not been for hearing a naturopath. See, the things you’re saying today which is we need these nutrients. Now, maybe someone’s motivation is they want Nootropics because they need to be sharper at work or they’re sick of being tired and unmotivated or depressed or whatever’s going on or they want to prevent dementia because it’s in their family history.

So these are all great motivations to explore Nootropics and what I’m hearing you say is that you can’t just take a Nootropic and go to McDonalds and not take a multivitamin. We need to do everything. We need to have a healthy lifestyle. And in the Nootropics with our healthy lifestyle is going to support us overall.


1:35:22.9 David Tomen: Another example is L-tyrosine will not turn into dopamine without the B vitamins. It just won’t.


1:35:38.2 Ashley James: Right. So it’s cofactors. The body needs everything so we gotta do it. You mentioned some foods that are really good. What foods are really bad for brain health?


1:35:50.7 David Tomen: Processed food because the junk in processed food and the way it’s processed just causes so much inflammation that things are breaking down in your brain and in your body.


1:36:02.9 Ashley James: Right. There’s one naturopath that says that oil in a bottle, any kind of oil – cooking oil, don’t do it. It damages the circulatory system. He says don’t eat nitrates or nitrites which are in a lot of deli meats. Now you can get at Applegate organic, no nitrates or nitrites.

This naturopath was a pathologist before he became a naturopath, so he had an intimate understanding of how this stuff works. Nitrates and nitrites will cross the blood-brain barrier and damage it and get clogged there, and they also will clog the kidneys and further exacerbate kidney damage. He takes people who are on dialysis and gets them off of these processed food and off of deli meats and of course get some multivitamin and minerals, but their kidney function improved greatly and even to the point of getting off of dialysis, but that they can seriously damage their kidneys by eating bacon for example, or deli meats with nitrates and nitrites. I thought that was fascinating.

Then he also talked about foods that are burnt and fried cause [inaudible 1:37:23.0] which again cause oxidative damage to the circulation, the circulatory system of the brain. So inflammation in the brain like you talked about. Yeah, pretty much if we avoid processed foods or avoiding all the foods that he warns people against. If we lived a lifestyle to make our brain healthy, then everything else seems to fall in place, doesn’t it?


1:37:53.6 David Tomen: That’s the reason why I called my book “Head First,” because if you take care of your head first, then other things seem to fall into place.


1:38:03.6 Ashley James: I love it. Do you have any stories of success after publish your book and people reading it and applying everything you teach to their life, do you have any stories success or memorable that you’d like to share?


1:38:18.1 David Tomen: Nothing that I really can share because if somebody can take a look at the comments section on Nootropics Expert and look at the testimonials, and if somebody published their name, then I generally don’t talk about stuff like that because you’re talking about stuff that I treat as confidential. I know that sounds like I’m skirting around it, but that’s just kind of like the way I look at this. This is other people’s business if they want to tell their story. They do tell their stories in the comments section because I see over and over again, “Thank you, David, so much for providing this information. You changed my life.” But there’s nothing that I would want to broadcast in a podcast necessarily.


1:39:14.3 Ashley James: Ok. Awesome. This has been really informative, and I definitely want to have you on the show to dive deeper because there’s so much more that we can explore.


1:39:30.1 David Tomen: We can dive into depression, anxiety, ADHD, anti-aging, TBI, PTSD.


1:39:44.0 Ashley James: I’ll leave it up to the listeners. So after I post this episode, I’ll ask our Facebook group. Those who are listening can go to www.learntruehalth.com/Group or search Learn True Health on Facebook and join the group and comment. I’ll make a post that’s an announcement and comment on it what you would like David to elaborate on or explore, what additional questions you have for him and we’ll make sure we cover those in our next interview with him.

Well, thank you so much, David for coming on the show.

Is there anything left unsaid? Is there anything that you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview


1:40:19.3 David Tomen: If you have an issue with your brain, please go to www.nootropicsexpert.com

And to get you started, there’s a free book that you can download called “Secrets of the Optimized Brain.” It’s about 75 pages and all it is, is page after page of nootropic supplements, it gives you a brief explanation of that, and how much to take. Then there’s my book “Head First” which is nearly 600 pages, and that’s like a manual on your brain. The first chapter is kind of like my story. The second chapter is how your brain works, which kind of like supports everything that I talk about and then the bulk of the book is individual supplements that I reviewed – what they are, where they come from, why we use them, how much to take effect, and the types to buy. And then the last 2 chapters are suggested stacks, best Nootropics for ADHD, depression, anxiety, learning, and memory that kind of thing. So you can get that at Nootropics Expert. I’ve also got close to a hundred videos now on the YouTube channel that’s turned out to be very, very popular. So please visit me on YouTube and just please visit Nootropics Expert, I’d love to help you out if I can.


1:41:44.3 Ashley James: Absolutely. I’m curious. So far it sounds like everything’s for adults, do you have any information for children or teenagers, is the dosing different or have you looked into sort of the pediatric application?


1:41:58.6 David Tomen: I’m starting to take a deep dive into the pediatric thing for a client in India, but there are some things that I just warn people don’t use if you’re a teenager or younger than 21 and other things, just be careful of the dosage. But I’m doing a deep-dive now into pediatric, and I should have more in the next month or two.


1:42:25.9 Ashley James: Very cool. Excellent.

Thank you so much, David Tomen. It’s been wonderful having you on the show. Can’t wait to have you back.


1:42:31.7 David Tomen: Absolutely, my pleasure. Ashley, thank you for having me.



Outro: Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition and how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity? Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business, support people in their success? Do you love helping people?

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So check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Mention my name, get the best deal.  Give them a call, and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you.

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Dr. Rachna Patel And Ashley James

Have you ever had pains you can’t describe where and what to do? So painful it’s already giving you anxieties or worse, sleepless nights? It pays to take care of our body so opting for going for all natural remedies would be a good investment in the long run. Check out today’s podcast to learn more about going “Au Naturale” when dealing with pain issues in your body.


[00:00] Ashley James: Hello, true health seekers and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True health podcast. We have a wonderful interview for you today with Doctor Rachna Patel, who’s a medical doctor that specializes in helping patients around the world to transition into using either medical cannabis or using CBD products in order to help them, sometimes even get off of pain medications but a lot of people that come to see her have complicated issues like parents who have children with autism who’s also experiencing anxiety. They found that CBD has been very effective at helping these children lower their anxiety. Those who have complicated chronic pain issues like fibromyalgia and they’re finding that even on multiple opioid medications that they’re having a very difficult time managing their pain. They come to Doctor Patel and they have found great success in using her expertise. Now, I thought it was pretty easy. Just if you have pain just start using CBD or if you have pain just start using medical cannabis, no big deal. You know dear, what I’ve found really interesting is that there’s a bit more finesse to it that if you really want to use hemp and cannabis products as in a medical herb. That you want to know somethings first. You know how to ingest it? How to get it in your system? You want to know the measurement of how much you are ingesting. We also want to know the contraindications and the side effects of if you have taken too much. It’s not dangerous but you should know the side effects. Who wants to experience side effects anyway? From natural or man-made drugs. We want to make sure that we are taking something safely and effectively. We can easily overdo some CBD products. Now there is also a concern about quality in the supplement industry.

Since a lot of CBD products are expensive, we really want to make sure that our money’s going towards products that are good quality and provide us exactly what we are looking for and the dose we’re looking for. I had a really interesting thing happen a few days before the interview, which I found to be just perfect timing. How the universe lines up to help us. One Sunday I was roughhousing with our son. We are playing together, building forts, laughing and tickling. I injured my back. I don’t remember quite what happened but I injured my back. I don’t remember it quite what happened but I injured my back and Monday morning I went to the chiropractor and he said, “Yes, you did quite a doozy.” I had basically torqued and twisted my pelvis. He said it’s going to take a few days to recover. I was very sore. Instead of reaching for the Advil or for something stronger, I went for the supplement that’s been sitting on my shelf from EVA CBD. I interviewed the founder of EVA CBD. It’s a whole hemp plant supplement company. I interviewed Nicole back in episode 337. She has a wonderful story including curing her dog’s cancer using a whole hemp juice. That was very interesting. She also cured her – I believed she had a form of IBS and it was very painful for her and she was able to reverse her inflammatory bowel issues using medical cannabis. What I love about her story is that they really apply their lessons personally to their own health. Then they look to create a supplement to help others.

She had sent me a bottle of her supplement called – I have it right here called, the EVA Better Relief. I hadn’t been in pain when I interviewed her and so I kept it thinking “Well, I’m glad I have it. Hopefully, I don’t ever need it but if I’m in pain, I’ll use it.” I came home from the chiropractor in tremendous amount of pain. Almost unable to walk, kind of a nine out 10. I took two, I drank some water, and of course, this is hemp so it doesn’t make you high or anything. It took about 20 minutes for it to kick in and I noticed that it really bought down the pain. I was able to relax. I had some pain cream I tried using but it really didn’t feel like it was doing the job because this is a pretty deep joint pain that I was experiencing. About 20 minutes after I took the EVA product, the whole hemp plant supplement for pain, it kicked in. It started to go down. I was able to rest. My back started to relax a bit and the pain went all the way down to zero. I noticed that if I get up and walk around a lot, it would get agitated but it wouldn’t get sharp. It was really dulled. It felt almost that I’ve taken some Advil. It was that effective for me so I took it twice a day every day. I still have back injury. It’s still healing but today’s better than the day before. It’s been five days and every day I’ve taken the EVA batter relief. Each time, I go from a lot of pain to very little pain to almost no pain and then I have to rest then I could come all the way down. That for me sells it because I think I would have had taken a lot of Advil to have gotten that results. I don’t want to take Advil. The end sets are dangerous for our liver. They actually inhibit the body’s ability to further decrease inflammation. Having said that, I know a lot of listeners have told me they love the EVA CBD products.

I wanted to let you know that you could definitely go to the show notes of this episode because I’m going to link my other interviews about CBD which I think really compliment this interview. If you’re interested in trying the EVA products, they have one for brain health, they have one for nerve health, they have one for emotions and mood, they have one like I said, for pain. They have about six different kinds. They mix herbs along with the whole hemp plant supplement. You can get 20% off when you go to learntruehealth.com/EVA and then you put on the coupon code LTH. Thank you so much for being a listener. For sharing these episodes with those who love especially if that someone’s in pain. I can tell you, they’ll be very happy to learn about this supplement. I have never used a supplement for pain that worked this well, so I’m really happy about that. The other CBD interview that I did that I think is really interesting to listen to in addition to listening to today’s episode is my interview with the founder of Medterra CBD, Jay Hartenbach. He actually also gives us a discount. He has a totally different product. Doctor Patel actually sells a CBD product and she talks about it in this interview that you’re about to listen to. Each of these are different. Doctor Patel has one that’s a whole plant CBD tincture. Then the EVA CBD is actually the entire hemp plant but in powder form so its’ less adultered. It’s a bit different. I think you’re going to get different experiences from each one. Then Jay Hartenbach’s supplement which is Medterra CBD, they guarantee that there’s no THCs. They have a process and he explains it. I think it’s fascinating to listen to this one, which is episode 300. Of course, I’m going to have the link to this episode as well on the show notes on today’s podcast. What I think is very interesting is that’s he talks about the farming industry for hemp and the different qualities of plant and how they manufacture it to make sure that it is clean. Because as Doctor Patel talks about it in today’s interview, buyer beware there are some CBD oils out there that are filled with molds, fungus, pesticides and heavy metals. Some of them contain very low amounts of CBDs, so you’re just basically taking a poison instead of a medicine. Jay talks about that in our interview episode 300. For his discount, you can go to MedterraCBD.com, use coupon code LTH and he gives 15% off. Excellent. Well, enjoy today’s interview, I know you will. Please share it with those of your friends who are in pain, have anxiety, have problems sleeping. All these conditions benefit from medical hemp and medical cannabis. Excellent. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day and enjoy today’s episode.


[09:31] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health Podcast! I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 361. We are back on the show with Doctor Rachna Patel. Who we had all the way back on episode 49. It’s been a long time. I can’t believe it. now, we’re in the 360’s and going strong. Welcome back to the show.

 [10:02] Rachna Patel: Thank you. Thank you for having me.


[10:05] Ashley James: Absolutely. You just shared with me that when you came in at episode 49, it was your first podcast interview.


[10:13] Rachna Patel: Very first and I was really, really nervous.


[10:16] Ashley James:  Well, you did not come across as nervous. I thought you came across as memorable because it was a really interesting interview about how you help your patients as a medical doctor, helping them to relieve anxiety and post-traumatic stress, pain, chronic pain using properly administer medical marijuana. Now, you are here today to talk about CBD, which is much more widely accepted than medical marijuana considering people don’t get high from it. Yet people are seeing great results with pain management and anxiety and sleep. I myself right now, currently on a CBD from a whole plant, a whole hemp plant medicine because I hurt my back on Sunday roughhousing with our four-year-old. I went to the chiropractor and he said, “Yes. You are really messed up.” My pelvis was torqued. I just did a number on myself. Now, I’m just recovering but I’ve been in pain. I am really surprised at how this has been more effective than if I took an over-the-counter medication. I don’t feel dopey and I know I’m not hurting my liver. I’m really relieved. I’m glad I had some in stock because I’m not normally in pain and the fact that I went to it first instead of Advil. I’ve had some really great results managing my pain while my back gets better. I’m really a big believer in hemp, using hemp as medicine. The extract CBD as medicine. I’m really excited to learn more from you today. Since you’ve been on the show on episode 49. A lot has happened in your career as a doctor and a healer. Tell us about what’s happened since and why you’re so passionate about CBD.


[12:12] Rachna Patel: When we last spoke, I was still in my Brock and Morten practice in California. Since then, I had transitioned to an online practice because I was getting phone call upon phone call from people all over the world who were basically like, “Teach me how to use this.” Mainly CBD oral because that’s what most people have access to. I transitioned to online practice. I’ve written a book in that time as well. The following on my YouTube channel has exploded. Tons that has happened.


[12:56] Ashley James: Awesome. Very cool. Now, you can work from wherever you want. You were just mentioning to me that some of your recruiting crew was in New Jersey. I don’t even know, where are you right now?


[13:08] Rachna Patel: I’m actually in Austin, Texas right now.


[13:10] Ashley James: Awesome. Very cool. You get to travel and help people all around the world. Tell us a bit about that. About helping people online around the world versus one on one in person in your clinic. What’s the difference that you’ve found?


[13:27] Rachna Patel:  I’m still doing consults online. There’s still one on one consults. The only difference is that rather than just working with people locally in the San Francisco Bay area, I’m now working with people from England and South Africa, in Indonesia and Canada. All over the world. What’s interesting about that is that I have to customize and tailor the treatment options based on what’s available in those particular countries, right? In a way, it’s a challenge but in a way, it’s also learning experience. You have to figure out how to be very – just basically think on your feet and figure out, “Okay, well, this is not available to them” so, “This is something that could work instead”. Yes, that’s what the experience has essentially been like.


[14:30] Ashley James: Awesome. Very cool. Can you share without obviously saying anyone’s name, can you share some stories of success in the last year working online with people around the world?


[14:40] Rachna Patel: Yes. I have helped a lot of parents of children with Autism. A lot of times these children, they tend to struggle with anxiety. A lot of that anxiety is triggered when there is a change in routine. Any sort of change in routine triggers this anxiety. In the worst case of scenarios, it can be aggressive behavior. It can manifest as aggressive behavior. Oftentimes even physical. With the help of CBD, these patients have, we’ve been able to manage the anxiety that these children experience and therefore just to crawl up of that anxiety that manifests. Working with that, working with severe pain as well. A lot of back pain. A lot of these things like anxiety, chronic pain, insomnia. They’re common to people all over the world, right? Because the human body’s a human body and the human experience is the human experience. There’s a lot of commonalities there that this one medication can benefit.


[16:01] Ashley James: Now, what point did you start to really use CBDs? When we spoke, I felt like you weren’t talking about CBDs as much as you’re talking about medical cannabis, medical marijuana. Using the difference strains to get different results. Then how to use it was really important like not just sitting there and smoking it was actually harmful but there’s ways to use it that’s less harmful and actually can be a benefit. That was more of what you’re talking about. Now you’re talking about CBDs. What happened in your journey that made you want to use CBD more?


[16:43] Rachna Patel: The thing is that, actually I was always talking about CBD. When I would talk to patients even in the context of marijuana, in terms of what combination of cannabinoids. You know what combinations of CBD and THC they should be using. I was still talking about amounts of CBD and amounts of THC. Then you have Farmville 2014 come along which made CBD even more accessible. CBD derived from hemp even more accessible. Overall, if I had to breakdown the benefits of CBD and THC in terms of percentages, I would say that about 80% of conditions benefited from high amounts of CBD. Whether that high amount of CBD comes from marijuana or if it comes from hemp. Then about 20% of medical conditions benefited from high amounts of THC. Of course, there are conditions in between that do need both CBD and THC to effectively treat the conditions. It’s something that I’ve always been talking about. Like I said, in the context of marijuana but with the regulations changing and CBD becoming more accessible, it was basically more that I just started to focus more on CBD. People still come to me with conditions where CBD doesn’t benefit their conditions. So I outright tell them that, “Hey, you know you’re better off using a marijuana based product because you are getting that high amounts of THC and CBD.” That’s really the context in which I speak. Even in the book that I’ve written. Which conditions could benefit from high amounts of CBD, which conditions for high amounts of THC and which conditions benefit from both CBD and THC.


[18:39] Ashley James: Very cool. Can you illustrate those points to us now? I’m pretty sure most listeners will have an understanding that like CBD doesn’t make you high. Medical marijuana when it’s activated, like the THCs activated it’s heated up, it goes from THCA to just THC. That’s’ what makes people experience the high. For people who don’t want to experience the high and just want the medicinal herb then that’s the CBD. Can you go into more details and explain what CBDs really good for? Versus medical marijuana?


[19:21] Rachna Patel: Yes, sure. I just want to touch very briefly on the concept of the high. Mainly, there’s two things that cause it, right? One is that the THC is of a significant potency in the product itself and two, is that you’re consuming a certain dose in order for it to actually get you high. You’re consuming excess amounts. If you don’t consume excess amounts of the THC then you’re not going to get a high of it. If the CBD is a lot higher than the THC, then you’re not going to get a high off of it. In terms of conditions that are benefited by high amounts of CBD, these are the most common conditions that I’ve encountered in my clinical practice. They include things like migraines and headaches, muscle pain. Also we’re talking about things like spasms, spasticity. Then there’s nerve pain. For instance, back pain caused by sciatica, neuropathy that’s caused by diabetes or chemotherapy. Even trigeminal neuralgia. Then we have anxiety. The umbrella of anxiety covers all sorts of different conditions. We’re talking about obsessive-compulsive disorder, PTSG, ADD, ADHD, panic disorder and also mild to moderate insomnia. Now, conditions that need in addition to the CBDs, some amount of THC include nausea and vomiting, lack of appetite, autoimmune conditions, right? These include conditions like psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, lupus. Severe nerve pain, this is pain that’s caused by conditions such as shingles, spinal stenosis and then finally, severe insomnia as well. This is specifically where the person cannot sleep unless they actually take some sort of heavy-duty medication or a high dose of medication as well. That I would say, in a nutshell covers the conditions that are benefited by high amounts of CBD and then conditions in which you do need some amount of THC as well.


[21:45] Ashley James:  Thank you for that explanation. Now we’ve got some great questions in the Facebook group. I want to make sure we get to all of them. Yesterday, I posted in the Facebook group asking if anyone had any questions for you. All listeners who aren’t in the Facebook group, please come join us. It’s a great community. Just search Learn True Health in Facebook. I know you’ve got the list of questions pulled up. Do you want to run through them?


[22:09] Rachna Patel: Yes, sure. Let’s see. First question comes in from Jenna and Jenna is asking what form of CBD is best for anxiety and depression. I’m thinking of trying the pill form. Would this be effective? What dosage? Okay, there’s a couple different things I want to touch on here. First of all, let’s look at anxiety and depression separately. Anxiety like I mentioned, is one of the conditions that benefits from high amounts of CBD. Depression on the other hand benefits from THC. That is because of the chemical pathways that these chemicals impact. CBD tends to have an impact on Serotonin which is what impacts anxiety. Oftentimes, what’s prescribed for anxiety are what are called SSRI. Selected serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Basically, these medications up the levels of serotonin in your body. That’s what’s helping the anxieties, it’s high amounts of CBD. However, depression is typically helped by high amounts of THC because tends to impact Dopamine, right? And dopamine is one of those feel-good chemicals. The important thing to know here is that, that impact of THC on depression is very transient, lasts for couple of hours or so and then it dissipates. Overall, I would say when it comes to anxiety, CBD is a lot more effective than pharmaceutical medications. What I found with depression clinically is that, the pharmaceutical medications tend to have a better longer lasting effect than the THC. Now you’re talking about form, okay? There are a lot of different forms in which you can consume CBD. There are edibles, there are tinctures, which are drops that you put under the tongue. You can also inhale it as well. A lot of this comes down to in terms of what’s the best method to use comes down to your medical history. Let me give you an example. I’ve had patients who’ve had gastric surgeries. For instance, gastric bypass surgery. In their case, they’re not able to absorb edibles as well. They’re not absorbing the CBD as well. It sort of just passes right through them. In their case, what works better, what’s more effective is inhalation or using drops with the tongue. That’s what I’m going to tell you about that. Now when it comes to dosage, what I’ve find is it’s a very individual process. Just to give you an example, this is an example having to do with insomnia but can also apply to anxiety as well. I have two patients, they both struggled with insomnia. They were otherwise healthy. No other medical diagnosis that they had. They were of similar body size and body shape. They had similar BMIs. Both patients tried the exact same CBD product. One patient ended up needing just 2.5mg of CBD to sleep better whereas the other patient needed 15mg of CBD to sleep better. I’ve seen this be the case with anxiety as well. Now there’s a couple different components that come to play when it comes to using the right amount of CBD. First and foremost, you want to take the strength of the CBD product into account. What I’m going to tell right now is, on the market, in an ounce whether it’s an edible or tincture, you’re going to find anywhere from about 250mg of CBD up to a thousand milligrams of CBD. That’s highly variable in terms of strength. Then the next job then is to figure out dosing. Then also taking the right frequency of CBD as well. You don’t want to overdo it because you can develop a tolerance to it. Again, let me walk you into an example. I’ve had patients with severe back pain and nothing’s really worked for them. They finally turn to CBD ad it does actually work for them and they get overzealous. They overdo it. [Laughter] Then two to three weeks later, I’ll get a phone call saying, “Hey Doc, this worked great and now it’s not working anymore.” That’s because you can develop a tolerance to it. Basically, you know you develop a tolerance when you’re, number one, you’re having to take higher and higher doses to get the same effect and then you reach a plateau where no matter how much you take, it’s having no effect on you. Those are some general basic guidelines that I would give you in terms of answering this particular question. Should I just roll through the next couple of questions?


[27:09] Ashley James: Actually, I’d like to stop in between I’ve got some questions. CBD, is that fat-soluble? Do we need a gallbladder to properly digest it to the point where we can absorb the CBD?


[27:27] Rachna Patel: No, not necessarily. Enzymes that the gallbladder release are not necessarily needed to digest CBD but here’s what I’m going to tell you. The CBD does get stored in the fat cells in the body. What I want you think of it as is as Vitamin D. Some people can be deficient in vitamin D, you know, when you test your blood levels. Some people can be normal. Basically, the people who tend to hold on to fat better have basically an advantage because they’re holding on to more of the CBD. Therefore, often times they need to take lower doses and need to take a rest frequently. Whereas the people to tend to metabolize their fat quicker may need to take higher doses and take it more frequently as well. Does that how to answer your questions?


[28:29] Ashley James: Yes. You mentioned that those with gastric bypass for example, just they have less intestines so there’s less of a chance of them to actually digest and absorb the nutrition fully. As a result, those who’ve had gastric bypass can develop deficiencies like B12 is very common. They need to be on supplements. What you’re saying is, they shouldn’t take an edible, either CBD edible or medical marijuana edible simply because they won’t digest it enough to absorb the medicine but you are saying that those with digestive issues like let’s say Crohn’s or IBS, or any kind of absorption issues. Someone knows that they have gotten an inflammation and dysbiosis and they’ve got issues with absorption. That edibles out but that tincture out of the tongue is still okay and we can absorb it fully even with a compromised digestive system.


[29:28] Rachna Patel: Yes, because it’s a different route. Rather than being absorb through the gastrointestinal tract the tincture gets absorb through – if you’ve ever taken a look under your tongue, you’ll see all of these blue lines, those are all blood vessels, that’s where the cannabinoids are being absorbed. It’s through those blood vessels. Inhalation is being absorbed through your lungs. In both situations you’re bypassing the gastrointestinal tract and it’s still getting into your bloodstream. Here’s what I would tell you. To touch on Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis, which are inflammatory gut conditions. I haven’t found absorption of edibles to be as much of an issue as for someone who has for instance, gastric bypass surgery or even ostomy. The people with the inflammatory bowel diseases still tend to absorb edibles fairly well.


[30:32] Ashley James: Okay. Very cool. You mentioned being dosed by weed. Someone is a 100 pounds versus 300 pounds, would they increase their dose of CBD to get the full effect?


[30:47] Rachna Patel: It’s actually not by weight because it actually has to do with the turnover of your fat cells. You know how some people can be fat on the inside, thin on the outside and vice versa. Fat on the outside and thin on the inside. So-


[31:10] Ashley James: Meaning the fat surrounding the organs?


[31:11] Rachna Patel:  Right. Basically overall, the turnover rate of your fat cells. That can vary from person to person. How much a person weighs doesn’t necessarily contribute to that turnover. I’ve had small people need small doses and large people need large doses and vice versa. Large people need smaller doses and smaller people need larger doses. It ultimately comes down to metabolism in general. It comes down to metabolism of fats and then finally, it comes down also to what sort of machinery you have in your liver to break down chemicals because these chemical are broken down in the liver. Several different factors that come into effect there. Direct correlations make it easy, right? For X do Y and for Y do Z but I haven’t found that to be the case with CBD. It’s very individual in terms of what dose someone ends up needing.


[38:29] Ashley James: Got it. What happens when you overdose? I mean, we can keep talking about dose. What if we take too much? What happens when we take too much CBD?


[32:40] Rachna Patel:  Couple different settings. One is the most common side effect is you’ll start to auto reject or fatigued. It’s almost like a hangover feeling. You know, when you’re dragging. Next most common side effect is you can get diarrhea. Third most common side effect and this is more or even long term, you can get changes in your weight and appetite but that is typically I could say, rare.


[33:08] Ashley James: The appetite increases or decreases, weight increase or decrease, or is it both?


[33:13] Rachna Patel:  Typically, there’s a decrease in the appetite and the weight.


[33:20] Ashley James: Okay. So overdosing is not harmful but there are known side effects that are manageable.


[33:29] Rachna Patel: Yes, exactly.


[33:31] Ashley James: Got it. If you’re trying to figure out your dose and also you feel lethargic then you just took too much and then the next day take less.


[33:39] Rachna Patel: Yes. As a general guideline. Yes, correct.


[33:41] Ashley James: Yes. What do you recommend for people starting? What’s a starting level for a dose? Just to see is it different for pain versus anxiety? Or just, you tell everyone to start with half a drop or full and then go up from there?


[33:57] Rachna Patel: Everybody does start at the same dose. I’ve had a wide variety of ranges in which I’ve had patients start and a lot of it depends on their history. How they’ve reacted to medications, how they’ve reacted to what other medications they’re on also matters. What their medical history is. The starting dose varies from person to person and the increment in which they increase the CBD also varies from person to person. A lot of it also depends on the severity of their condition as well. How severe for instance, their pain level is or how severe their anxiety is. Those are all very different factors that I’m basing starting dose and incremental doses off of.


[34:49] Ashley James: Got it. Are there any interactions or contraindications like you mentioned interactions with drugs? Are there any known interactions with drugs? Or there any contraindications that would say that we shouldn’t do CBD?


[35:04] Rachna Patel: Yes. In terms of drug interactions, there have been two drugs that have been studied in conjunction with CBD. One is called the ASM which is the Anti-seizure medication typically used in children. What they found was that, when Clobazam was administered with CBD, the levels of Clobazam stayed elevated far longer. The danger in that is that, you can build up a toxic level of the prescription medication. In this particular case, the study the level of doses of the Clobazam had to be reduced. That was actually a good thing because the patients we experiencing pure side effects of the prescription medication. That’s one. Second thing is when they were studying Epidiolex. Epidiolex is basically a prescription version of the CBD. It was approved sometime about in the summer of 2018. When they were starting this medication which is essentially CBD, again, they were studying it in a some set of types of epilepsy in children particularly. A lot of this children were on Valproic acid otherwise known as Valproate which is also an anti-seizure medication. What they found was that when patients take Valproate with CBD, their liver enzyme levels tended to go up. It cause a mild liver injury. Typically, they did a couple different things. They either eliminated or reduced the CBD or they eliminated or reduced the Valproic acids and then the liver enzymes went back to normal. That’s what’s known, right? But in the study what they said was that, we would extend our conclusions to any medication that causes what’s known as Hapado cellular injury. Basically, any prescription medication that tends to cause liver damage or elevate liver enzymes. When these medications are used in combination with CBD there has to be a lot of monitoring that has to be done. A lot of precautions that have to be taken. That’s pretty much what I would tell you. Now on my YouTube channel, I do have a video specifically on CBD and drug interaction where I list medications that a person should use with caution in conjunction with CBD.


[37:42] Ashley James:  I was at the grocery store a month ago and talking to the lady that was checking out my groceries about melatonin. My melatonin over the counter, it’s safe. They have melatonin gummies for children and for adults. To me it’s a safe, obviously, use everything responsibly but it’s a safe alternative to prescription medications for sleep. She started saying, “You know, I should really look into melatonin because,” and then she lists one of the most common drugs for sleep, Lunesta or something like that. You know the side effects, pretty crazy. She said that she’s on a few medications to help her, calm her down anxiety and go to sleep at night. So the checker was – here she is complaining about the side effects of the medications she’s on. Then there’s a natural remedy like CBD. There’s a natural remedy that helps people to sleep, Melatonin. She wouldn’t try it because she’s worried that the melatonin would interact with her medications. I was like, “This is the weirdest thinking.” I’m coming from the point of, “I don’t want the side effects of the medications.” Right? She’s thinking, “I don’t want the side effects of a natural substance to interfere with my medications”. She didn’t want to be on those medications. If she could work with her doctor and try CBD and Melatonin and like magnesium soak bath every night. She could try these things which when she described her situation, she just went straight for the drugs. I know over 70% of adults in the United States were on at least one prescription medication. It’s the norm. Her experience is the norm and my experience of not wanting to be on many medications and looking for alternatives is not the norm. We‘re all swimming upstream. We’re going go against the green here and I know my listeners are as well. Looking to do everything we can to be as natural and healthy as possible. There are going to be times when someone wants to use medications and use natural medication together in harmony. So I’m glad that you cover where CBD might entrap with the medication and how we can go about adjusting those things. In terms of contraindications, is CBD safe for everyone? Or are there times when it’s not?


[40:21] Rachna Patel: Yes. I would say it’s definitely contraindicated in women who are pregnant and breastfeeding. The reason I say this, it is a conservative recommendation. Reason being, when cannabinoids in general, CBD and THC have been studied in the context of marijuana. What’s been found is that they can lead to low birth weight and they can also lead to pre-term labor and delivery as well. I don’t know if I would feel comfortable as the doctor taking that risk on a person who is pregnant and breastfeeding. It’s important to know that when you are breastfeeding, these cannabinoids do get passed through that breastmilk.


[41:09] Ashley James: Are those studies only for medical marijuana? Or they’re also for CBD? Exclusively?


[41:18] Rachna Patel:  They’re on medical marijuana. They’re not on CBD. It could be marijuana and likely these women are obtaining marijuana off the streets, it could’ve been marijuana that is high in THC or it could’ve also be marijuana that is high in CBD. That distinction has not been made. Whether it was the THC, CBD or even something else, we don’t know. It’s just at this point in general category of cannabinoids is what I would tell you.


[41:50] Ashley James: Right. There’s so many other factors to that. I mean, just to play the devil’s advocate, we don’t know what kind of the group of women that they chose to study whether they were – what was their socio-economic position and if that played a role. If they were all unable to eat three meals a day or do they have the means to. Were they studying people who are in shelters or homeless or were they studying people like at what age. I can understand low birth weight if you’re just stoned all the time and don’t want to eat or if you’re stoned all the time on the streets and don’t have access to food, is much different, right? What would it be like if it was women in their 20’s who had a house and a job and they chose to use medical marijuana while pregnant. Would it be the same? Are those other factors taken into consideration?


[42:51] Rachna Patel: Yes. I could tell you even one factor the use of other drugs was not taken into consideration. Then the other thing is that, one of the other scenarios could’ve been that a lot of women get what’s called hyperemesis gravidarum. You get a lot of nausea and vomiting especially in the first trimester of pregnancy. Oftentimes can be difficult to control with prescription medications so out of desperation these women could’ve been turning to marijuana off the streets. I highly don’t recommend that but that could’ve been another scenario that played out as well. We don’t know, right? CBD hasn’t been as well studied. I would tell you overall as THC. It’s now being more and more studied. You have to realize up until just recently, because marijuana’s only been very recently accepted. CBD has only be very recently been accepted. These substances, these chemicals we studied as drugs of abuse. You’re looking at it a certain perspective. That has shifted now, we’re now looking at the medical value of it. Things are studied differently as I would tell you.


[44:18] Ashley James: Right. They wouldn’t turn around and the positive benefits of heroin use during pregnancy. That’s how they saw it. They wouldn’t turn around start telling like the benefits. In that study, they would’ve been like, the women who used medical marijuana or street marijuana while pregnant saw a reduction in their nausea and were in less on or something. They wouldn’t talk about that. They’re addressing those issues, low birth weight and early labor. Interesting. We’re just pioneers right now. In a few years, we’ll definitely see more studies come out. Outlining whether or not CBD is safe for the baby during pregnancy or breastfeeding. I imagine what’s interesting is the endocannabinoid system, our body makes and uses these chemicals. Anyway, can we talk about that before our next question? What is CBD attaching to in our nervous system and why does it complement our body so much?


[45:25] Rachna Patel: Yes. Sure. Basically, you have receptors. You can think of receptors as locks. Now think of these round circular cell. It has itsy bitsy locks on it and those locks only accepts certain types of keys. Now, within endocannabinoid locks, you have CBD one. You have even more specific type of locks, you have CBD 1, you have CBD 2. Then a group of other receptors, which haven’t been clearly defined as a part of the endocannabinoid system but you have CB1 and CB2. CB1 and CB2 are not just actually located at the bottom of the nervous system, they’re located throughout the body. Even including on your immune cells. These locks reacts to certain types of keys and our bodies make these certain types of keys and they’re known as endocannabinoids. If you break that worked down, there’s two parts to it. Endo and cannabinoids. Endo means within and cannabinoids are these specific types of chemical that interact with the cannabinoid reactors. The two most common endocannabinoids are anandamide and 2-AG. Very similar in structure to the endocannabinoids are the phytocannabinoids. If we break that word down we have phyto and we have cannabinoids. Phyto means plant, cannabinoids again, these are chemicals that interact with the cannabinoid receptors. The phytocannabinoids include chemicals like CBD and THC. They also interact with these locks because their structure is very similar to the endocannabinoids that we naturally make. Finally, they are what are known as synthetic cannabinoids. Synthetic basically means fake. These are chemicals that appear like cannabinoids but are made in a lab. We have all these different types of cannabinoids that interact with the body and when that key enters that lock, it triggers a series of chemical reactions. Going back to the serotonin impacting anxiety and the dopamine impacting depression, that’s what going on. It’s impacting all these other chemical levels in our body. Then having an impact like relieving anxiety. Putting you in a little bit of a good mood. Helping to relieve your pain. That’s what’s pretty much what’s going on. The system was very fairly recently discovered. We’re talking about basically the 60’s is when these whole system was discovered. We don’t know as much about it as other systems in the body. For instance, the opioid system. We know quite a bit about that but we don’t know as much about the endocannabinoid system but what we do know is that it’s significant. It’s a significant system in the body otherwise it would not be having these clinical results that I’ve been seeing in patients.


[48:53] Ashley James: Very cool. Yes, I found it fascinating learning about the endocannabinoid system. We have one guest that talked about how when people are deficient in their fatty acids. The omega 3, 6 and 9, if they’re deficient in them. That the body also becomes deficient in the cannabinoids that it makes. He sees that when people use CBD oil who are deficient their EFAs, they see a really positive result. It’s like giving someone a fish oil and you can also get them from algae. Doesn’t have to be from fish but in EFA, essential fatty acid supplement because the body can become deficient in CBD. It’s thought of more like a nutrient. Like you said, vitamin D or vitamin C. It’s a nutrient the body can become deficient in and I had a friend tell me recently, it’s either a guest or a friend, talk about how we used it, how cannabis in our diet. Hemp hundred years ago or 200 years ago, even 300 years ago was grown here, we use it. We put it to our food. We fed it to our animals so that even the milk from the cows would contain some of these cannabinoids. They would eat it, they give it to the chickens, they’ll be in the eggs. We’d have it in our food because you can use hemp, there’s all kinds of ways to eat it. Also, we would then make ropes, clothing, linen out of it and the sails from ropes from ships. The fact that we sort of have it more from our diet back then than we do now. I thought that was really interesting. Have you heard about that? Or seeing that we are more deficient in CBD now as a society than we were in the past?


[51:03] Rachna Patel: No. The fact that it was in the food supply is actually new to me. That’s something I’d have to look into but in terms of deficiency, I would say the most objective measure of that is to measure the cannabinoid levels. Just to see whether or not we’re deficient. Also, what we don’t have right now is what’s normal for an individual. How much cannabinoid should a person have? I wouldn’t use the word deficient because I feel like then people would start using the cannabinoids as a vitamin on a regular basis. As I’ve mentioned before, taking too much of it and taking it too often does lead to tolerance. Taking too much of it can lead to side effects as well. I wouldn’t say deficient but we need more information like I said, in terms of the baseline of what’s normal and also, measuring these amounts in people.


[52:05] Ashley James: As I’m sitting, realizing I don’t have any back pain at all from taking – I took the Eva product which I’ve had her on the show and it was a whole plant, hemp plant. There’s CBD in there but it’s a whole plant. Basically, I took two capsules and I’m sitting here not in pain anymore. I woke up, walked around, I woke up with no pain and as when I start standing and I’m moving around, I’ve got to bed around 6 or 7 and at ten in pain was just pretty bad for me and I took two. Now, I’m just sitting here and all the pain has subsided. It’s amazing. I would’ve been on Advil all day long and maybe even a muscle relaxant if I wasn’t into holistic health. I didn’t know that there were these options. If I only knew what the pharmacy had. I wouldn’t be taking this natural route. It really does work to relieve pain. I know we have a question in the group about using it topically. How effective is that to use like hemp oil or CBD oil on a joint? Let’s say the wrist or hand that a person has an injury or has arthritis?


[53:29] Rachna Patel:  Yes. So we do have receptors for cannabinoids in our skin. In terms of types of conditions that I’ve seen topicals benefit, they include skin conditions. Any sort of inflammatory skin conditions like psoriasis for instance, eczema, it’s effective for. I’ve also seen it be effective for very localized muscle pain. If you have spasm, it’s effective for that. What I have not seen it be as effective for is joint pain. With joint pain specifically, what I find is most effective is both CBD and THC because there’s a large inflammatory component there. What’s going on with inflammation? Remember the autoimmune conditions that I’ve talked about there’s a large inflammatory component there as well. You have CBD and THC, they both have anti-inflammatory properties when you combine them together there’s an even greater anti-inflammatory effect because you have these phenomena known as the entourage effect or synergistic effect would’ve otherwise known as what’s going on. One chemical is enhancing the effect the other chemical, there’s even more anti-inflammatory effect. I would say if there’s mild joint pain then yes, the CBD alone can be effective but if it gets into the realm of being moderate or severe then you do need some amount of THC in the form of a topical to effectively treat joint pain such as arthritis.


[55:00] Ashley James: Very cool. It’s okay to mix and match like someone uses a topical and takes the tincture and or uses the vapor and uses the tincture uses the vapor and uses the topical or is it okay to mix and match or should they just stick with one?


[55:16] Rachna Patel: It’s okay to mix the topical with other delivery methods but other internal delivery methods but I would not mix and match multiple internal delivery methods because there’s a cumulative effect. These chemicals are getting stored in the fat cells in your body, right? So you can overdo it if you use too many of the internal methods at once but combining a topical with an internal method should be fine.


[55:45] Ashley James: When you count, let’s say someone goes, “Okay, I’m doing 100mg a day”. I don’t even know, is that how you measure it? By milligrams?


[55:54] Rachna Patel:  Typically yes.


[55:55] Ashley James:  Yes. Okay. That’s what I thought. 100mg per day is my dose. I’m going to do 50mg of topical or 50 of oral? Is that how it works? Or do you only count the oral and then topical is just bonus?


[56:10] Rachna Patel: I just count the internal and then the external is just bonus. The thing with the external, the topical is that it’s very local absorption. You’re not absorbing enough of it into your bloodstream. What goes into the bloodstream can pretty much be considered negligible. Unless, you like big CBD oil, [inaudible] [laughter] you put on some music, some candles and you pour a lot of CBD in your bathtub then you know you can get quite a lot of stomach absorption.


[56:55] Ashley James: I think I’m going to come out with that line of CBD bath bombs, to bathe in CBD. [Laughter] That’ll be pretty cool. Awesome. All right, next question.


[56:57] Rachna Patel: Why do some people use high quality CBD oil and feel no difference at all? Okay. It could be that the CBD oil has no CBD in it. The fact of the matter is that it’s an unregulated industry. So pretty much anything goes. Really, the most important thing that you can do as a consumer is look at the laboratory test results before you purchase a product. You go look at the laboratory tests result for the particular batch, the batch from which the product was made because every batch has different amount of CBD and THC. With the amount of the CBD on a laboratory test result, you want to look at the total amount of CBD and with the amount of THC, you want to ensure that it’s less than .20% which is the legal requirement. That’s what I’m going to tell you based on that. Honestly, I don’t rely on any of the marking, on any of the labelling. If I have to judge a product, the first thing that I ask for are the laboratory test results. The fact that for that particular batch one of the things I’m looking at is the total amount of CBD and the amount of THC. Let’s see here. This next question is actually a really good question. “My husband is a DOT driver. He would like to try for anxiety but is concerned it would show up in a drug test on the same spectrum THC/marijuana does? Is this true? Does having higher grades of CBD matter with this? Thank you.” Here’s how I want you to think of it. The difference between hemp and marijuana comes down to the amount of THC. By law, hemp has less than .3% THC. Marijuana has more than .3% THC. They both have THC. There a greater likelihood of the THC being detected with the marijuana product but there’s less of a likelihood but there’s still likelihood of the THC being detected with a hemp product. One of things I want to touch on here are ice split CBD oils. The general perception is that, they just take out the CBD from the hemp plant and they do but this is done using a series of chemical process. The types of chemical that they’re using are pentane, hexane. One of the drawback of these is that you don’t know how much of these potentially toxic chemicals get left behind. No one’s testing for them and you certainly don’t want toxic levels of pentane or hexane on your body. At the very least, it can cause a lot of inflammation. That’s one of the drawback of the ice split CBD oils. It’s usually ice split CBD oils that have typically little to no THC in them. It can even more significantly reduce the likelihood of the THC showing up. However, that’s not to say that there have been products on the market that have been marketed as ice split CBD oils which are otherwise known as pure CBD oils but when lo and behold when people get drug tested there has been THC that’s shown up. Again, what I would recommend is go based on laboratory test results. If you’re going to purchase an ice spilt CBD oil, what you need to specifically look for are amounts of residual solvents and you want to make sure that they’re non-toxic. That the solvents that were used to extract just the CBD have been cleaned out of that final product.


[01:01:04] Ashley James:  Got it. That makes a lot of sense. You don’t want those solvents and chemicals in your tincture that’s for sure. I know that you sell a CBD. How do you ensure that it is clean? Is your CBD that you sell going to show up in a drug test?


[01:01:29] Rachna Patel: Yes. I drive my farmer crazy. It’s what I do. Basically the way it works is that, I don’t bottle up a product until I approve of the laboratory test results. There’s a couple different things that I check for. Number one are the amounts of CBD and THC. Now that particular product that I’ve created, it has less than .3% THC. It’s what’s known as the full spectrum CBD oil, which basically means you’re getting the full spectrum of cannabinoids that are in the plant. It’s not just the CBD. Yes, the THC can be detected with a line of product that I’m selling. In addition to testing from the amount of CBD and the amount of THC, I’m also testing for pesticide levels. Two pesticides in particular that you absolutely want to make sure your CBD oil has been tested for is bifenazate and myclobutanil. These are the most commonly used pesticides on hemp plants. Again, it’s an unregulated industry so there’s no control over what can and cannot be used in terms of pesticide in hemp plants. The other thing is, I also test for fungus and bacteria this is because this is especially important in people with compromised immune system. This can include anybody who’s undergoing chemotherapy for cancer for instance. Anybody who’s HIV-AIDS, anybody who’s had an organ transplant but also for people who have auto-immune conditions and are on drugs that suppress the immune system. Basically, a hemp is a plant. It’s just like romaine lettuce. It can have e-coli, it can have salmonella. It can even have a fungus known as Aspergillus. The people who are most vulnerable to these bugs are the people who has compromised immune system. That’s another thing I make sure of. The other thing is heavy metals. This is important because the hemp plant and even the marijuana plant, they’re known as bio-accumulators. They just soak up heavy metals in their environment. Those heavy metals can seep into your CBD oils. They have toxic levels of lead for instance found in CBD oils. Now, before heavy metals in particular that you want to make sure your CBD oil has been tested for include arsenic, cadmium, lead and mercury. Then finally the other thing is which I touched on before are residual solvents. There’s unsafe solvents which I touched on and they fall under the category of hydrocarbons. We’re talking about things like pentane, hexane, butane, propane and if some of these chemicals sounds familiar it’s because they’re used for everyday things. Like propane for instance, is used to fire up your barbeque grill. Butane is what’s in lighter fluid. Any of these chemicals are used, like I said they’re more commonly used in ice split CBD oils, we want to make sure there’s none toxic levels left behind. They’ve been cleaned out. Now the safer solvents on the market that are being used more and more, carbon dioxide, CO2, the gas that we breathe in and out everyday. Also, alcohol. Those are the safer solvents that are used to make CBD oils. Those five things at a minimum, when I was creating my line of CBD oils I was asking farmers all sorts of questions like what sort of growing you are using. Where are hemp plants being grown? For me, I wanted to ensure that they’re grown in the United States specifically in Colorado because that’s the one state where there’s some control in terms of regulation on the production and cultivation of hemp. There’s a variety of different factors but these five that I walked you through you especially want to make sure with any brand of CBD that you’re buying.


[01:05:49] Ashley James:  I’ve heard maybe you can clarify that, I know with medical marijuana there’s indica and sativa. They’re these different sort of strains of it, that are instead of thinking of it as one plant, we think of it like mushrooms where there’s shitake mushrooms and reishi mushrooms. Many different kinds of mushrooms and each can have a different medicinal quality to it. Same with the cannabis and the hemp plant that they have sort of different strains that provide different benefits. Is that true with hemp as it is with cannabis? Is there like a sativa or indica of hemp to get different kinds of THC? Or sorry, different kinds of CBD?


[01:06:40] Rachna Patel: Yes, here’s what I would tell you. I don’t actually go by the names of different strains, indica or sativa, I don’t care about all that. As a doctor, what I care about is objective data. All I care about are the amounts of THC and CBD. When you’re looking at marijuana products, what you want to look at is the amount of CBD relative to THC or the amount of THC relative to CBD. Plain and simple. When it comes to hemp-based products, you’re looking at the total amount of CBD. Number one, you’re making sure that the amount of THC is less than that .3%. Then you’re going to look at the amount of CBD and look at what the total strength is in that one ounce. Remember, you want to compare equivalent amounts. An ounce to an ounce. Not an ounce to 2 ounces for instance. I’ve mentioned this before but I want to emphasize it again, typically what you’re going to find in the market is anywhere from 250mg of CBD to a 100mg of CBD in a one ounce bottle. When it comes at hemp-based products you’re looking at strengths. More is not always better. Like I mentioned before, optimal is what you’re aiming for. The strength that’s right for you. Just to give you an example that relatable, lets’ take ibuprofen. Ibuprofen is used for headaches oftentimes. You have the person where they come in 200mg tablets, you have the person where 200mg does the job of reliving their headache but then you will have other patients that’ll need hundreds of milligrams that comes in the form of prescription strength to help relieve their headache. The person where 200mg does it of ibuprofen, you’re not going to have to take hundreds of milligrams to help relieve your pain. Same thing with CBD, for one person the 250mg strength does the job. You don’t need to go all the way to the other end of the thousand milligrams to relieve whatever symptom you’re experiencing. Does that help in terms of – so it’s not strains but it’s strength of CBD that you’re looking at.


[01:08:59] Ashley James: Don’t be worried about the strain of the plant, we‘re just looking at the amount of CBD. Your CBD oil is whole plant. Meaning it’s whole plant extract so there’s actually more than just CBD in there? There’s terpenes. I don’t even know these words but do you ever look into sort of the medicinal benefits of the other compounds that come from the hemp plant?


[01:19:026] Rachna Patel: Here’s the interesting thing with terpenes. Terpenes were highly in volatile compounds, that why whenever you’re near a lemon grove, what you’re smelling is lemony floating around in the air. When you’re near pine trees, you’re smelling the piney that’s floating around in the air. They’re highly volatile compounds and when CBD oils are made the heat process is high enough where these chemical evaporate. Oftentimes really what’s going on with the manufacturing process is that these terpenes are added back in after the CBD oil was made. Finally, laboratory testing goes through several phases. One, you test the plant. Second, you test the extract. Third, you test the final CBD oil. Let me simplify this for you. General perception is that it’s just the CBD extracted in the oil like the kitchen grade oil, the coconut oil or the olive oil. That’s not the case, what’s going on is that the CBD is extracted in the solvent. One of the solvents that I’ve mentioned, CO2, ethanol are one of the hydrocarbons and then once it’s extracted in that then it’s being mixed up in the oil. The plant is tested because if the plant is not good like if it’s infested with fungus, e-coli, salmonella then you can’t use it. Then the extract is tested because you want to know, make sure that in the heating process you’re getting the right amounts of CBD and THC. Finally, once it’s dissolved in the oil, you’re testing it again for amounts of CBD and amounts of THC as well. Once the CBD oil is made, put into that oil then typically the terpenes are added back in. You can buy terpenes online in powder form and it’s mixed back in. That’s what’s typically what happens. It’s interesting because there’s research done on this too where they just took a little bud of marijuana because marijuana has terpenes as well. They put it in boiling water. They test it for terpenes before they boil it and then after they boil it most of the terpenes disappear after putting it in boiling water. Like I said, they’re highly volatile compounds and they just very easily, any amount of heat that touches them they’re sort of are in the air.


[01:12:12] Ashley James: What are their medicinal benefits?


[01:12:013] Rachna Patel: The main medicinal benefits as far as I know come for the cannabinoids themselves because that’s what’s interacting with the cannabinoids system. The terpenes could be interacting with other systems in the body but the two combined I haven’t found much in a way of research so it’s difficult for me to say.


[01:12:37] Ashley James: You know what I found really interesting about CBD is that if someone smoke too much pot and they’re too high that they can use CBD to bring them down really quick because the CBD floods the receptors and blocks the THC receptors. If someone did too much pot like maybe medical marijuana patient for the first time and they’re going through chemotherapy  or they’re in a lot of pain and they’re looking to relieve themselves and they’re okay with getting high because whenever they’re at home. Then they feel too high maybe they get paranoid or scared if they take some CBD then all of a sudden will bring them back to reality much faster. We don’t have that with alcohol. The old saying is drink some coffee but now you’re just drunk and awake. It doesn’t actually speed up your liver and metabolize the alcohol much faster. When you drink, you’re just going to be drunk for the next four hours. If you’re high, you can just be high for the next four hours but with CBD it can actually can bring people down faster. I thought that was really interesting. I did not know that when I was younger and might have benefit from that information. [Laughter]


[01:13:53] Rachna Patel: Yes, all the college students, some high school students. Yes, probably. [Crosstalk]


[01:13:57] Ashley James: I don’t know if it’s anecdotal but I heard that EMTs will have CBD in their kit to help patients who are – the people they’re helping that might have eaten too many pot brownies then called 911. Have you heard of that? That EMTs would travel in their ambulance with CBD oil?


[01:14:23] Rachna Patel:  I have not actually heard of that. Do you know which country this is in? [Crosstalk]


[01:14:26] Ashley James: It was anecdotal. I don’t know If it’s true or not. It’ll really be interesting to find out but I heard that because CBD is so effective at bringing people down that EMTs have been using it. I don’t know if it’s true or not but it’s interesting to consider that it has that effect. Now, you said that during the testing that three times you test. You’re testing at the farm basically you take the plant itself and have it tested. You’re testing for mold, the CBD level of the plant and pesticides, is that correct?


[01:15:03] Rachna Patel: Yes. You’re testing for the bugs, the pesticides and also you’re testing for the amount of CBD and THC. Actually, at that point the amount of CBD and THC does not really matter. Not the CBD but the THC. You want to make sure it’s less than a certain amount. During the extraction process based on the heeding, you can actually use a heeding process to change the amounts of the CBD and the THC.


[01:15:37] Ashley James: Okay, so that’s not as important. The first time you test, it’s more about whether this plant is even worth taking it to the factory to make it into a tincture, to make it into medicine. You want to make sure there’s no mold, you want to make sure there’s no pesticides or that they’re below the limit that you’re looking for. Then after you had it made in the lab is when you test it again for the CBD levels and the THC levels and then you said there’s a third time you test it, can you clarify that?


[01:16:12] Rachna Patel: Yes. Just to go through the whole process, you’re testing the plant mainly for things like pesticides, fungus and bacteria and heavy metals. Then you’re going to extract mainly for the amounts of CBD and THC. Lastly, you’re going to test the final product for amounts of CBD and THC and then also like residual solvents, heavy metals, pesticides and then you don’t really have to do fungus and bacteria at that point. Those are the main things that you’re testing for at the third stage of it. Now, this is how I do it. Ideally, how it should be done but is this how everyone does it? No, because again, there’s no regulations in the industry. I just tend to be very, very tight and use the knowledge that I have very strictly but yes, this is how I’ve worked with my farmer and done it.


[01:17:11] Ashley James: Very cool. A question just came in from Jodi. They say, “I’ve been seeing citrus forms of CBD with zero THC. How well do these work? If you have zero THC in your body, how well is it going to react with your system? Or what would you do when you’re body builds up a tolerance?” There’s some few questions in there. One is, what are citrus forms of CBD?


[01:17:41] Rachna Patel: I don’t know actually. I was going to ask you the same question.


[01:17:44] Ashley James: Maybe it’s the edibles or maybe it’s like citrus flavored tincture. Okay, they say it has zero THC, which means the manufacturer had to have used all those solvents to remove it. How well do this work? In your experience, how well do the ones that have solvents that have removed THC compared to the whole plant CBD?


[01:18:12] Rachna Patel: It’s going to depend on the symptoms that you’re experiencing, right? If it’s a condition that really doesn’t necessitate any amount of THC and really is benefited by high amounts of CBD then it’s going to benefit you but if there something where you do need some amount of THC, then it’s not going to benefit you. It really depends on the combination of symptoms that you have. As in the example of joint pain that I’ve gave you, if you have mild joint pain for arthritis then yes, it could help but anything more than that marches severe then in all likelihood it’s probably not going to help. What would do when your body builds up a tolerance? You scale back, that’s pretty much the simple solution to it


[01:19:01] Ashley James: Got it. Very cool. Yes, a friend once told me that he found – he was doing medical marijuana and he found that when he added CBD that he needed to do less medical marijuana to get the same results. He found it actually made his body seem more efficient with it. Have you heard of that?


[01:19:22] Rachna Patel:  Yes. If you think about if that’s a product that has high amounts of THC, it still does have some amount of CBD and if your body is benefiting for the CBD you’re going to have to use more of it to accumulate more of the CBD. The smaller amount of CBD you’re going to have to take more of in order to accumulate some of that but then if you’re adding the CBD, then you’re not going to have to take much of the high THC low CBD product. Does this make any sense? Hopefully, I don’t confuse you.


[01:19:59] Ashley James: I think so.


[01:20:00] Rachna Patel:  Let’s put numbers to it. You’re using a marijuana product that has 10mg of THC and only 2mg of CBD. Say, your body really needs 10mg of CBD for it to be effective. You’re going to have to take a lot of that to accumulate 10mg but if you add in a CBD product that has 8mg of CBD in it and then you add it with the 2mg that’s already there, you’re obviously not going to need a much as the other product.


[01:20:35] Ashley James: Yes. That makes sense because what the body actually was really benefitting from as what you’re saying is, when people use medical marijuana what they’re really benefiting from is the CBD in the medical marijuana plant.


[01:20:50] Rachna Patel:  Right, for certain conditions. If that’s what you’re body really needs, it’s going to keep on asking for more until it gets enough but if you give it the high CBD product that has the right amount then it’s not going to ask for more. It’s going to do the job.


[01:21:07] Ashley James: I know someone. Actually, I think I know of a few people because I heard this more than once but I know of someone. I’ve watched them do it, they use CBD, pure CBD to quit using marijuana. That they have been using it recreationally and they found that they use it for four years non-stop every day and every time they want to stop, they didn’t want to stop. They felt as if there was an addiction there. I know it doesn’t have the same, it’s all addictive like cigarettes or heroine I get it but for people who are doing it every day, they’re seeing some relief in their own life especially if they have anxiety and when they go to stop, they feel compelled to keep doing it. I’ve talked to people who feel like medical marijuana has that addictive nature for some people just like chocolate bonbons would. It can be helpful but it also some people can find that they don’t want to quit. I know someone, watched them do it where they used the CBD extract and it helped them to want to quit. They used it and obviously had to do the work so they need to face life, face life sober. But that’s when they used the CBD that it brought on all the same positive benefits like the lower anxiety, the better sleep, all that. They found it much easier to not feel like they wanted pot anymore so it gave them a relief from the craving. Have you ever heard people using CBD to help quit using marijuana as a recreational drug?


[01:22:58] Rachna Patel: Yes. I want to put it into context here. Sounds like the person you’re talking about over did marijuana use.


[01:23:10] Ashley James: Right, yes.


[01:23:11] Rachna Patel: Quite a bit. Just like any other drug if you abuse it, yes, there’s potential for addiction. That’s important to know. Chemically speaking, CBD is what’s known as an inhibitor of THC. The CB1 receptor that I was talking about, CBD attaches to it, it changes the shape of the place where THC attaches so the body no longer gets any sort of effect from the THC anymore. That is potentially something that could be going on in terms of reducing the effect of the THC and therefore the need for it as well.


[01:24:00] Ashley James: Very interesting. Okay. Anything else that you want to make sure that we cover?


[01:24:06] Rachna Patel: No, we covered quite a bit. I would say that for those who want more information, I am constantly answering questions on my YouTube channel. Actually, starting next week what I’m going to do is I going to try to go live everyday on the various different platforms and just answer questions for people because people want answers. They can post their questions on YouTube, on any of my social media platforms, on Facebook. I’ll select them because I do get a lot of questions so I’ll select them and try to answer them. There’s more information on my book as well. Some of the things that I mentioned, I go into it in a lot more depth in the book and that’s available on Amazon. It’s titled “The CBD oil solution” and then subtitle is, “Treat chronic pain, insomnia and more without the high.”


[01:25:06] Ashley James: Got it. I’m going to make sure that the links to everything that you do is in the show notes of today’s podcast to learntruehealth.com. I am currently on your website and looking at your hemp oil and the CBD oil solution book, we’ll make sure the link to that is also in the show notes. People can join your email list and immediately give some great information. Then of course follow you on Facebook. You and I have been, I’ve been following you on Facebook since episode 49 when you’re first on the show and I see you posting all the time and on Instagram I see you posting all the time pictures of lectures that you’re giving and slides and all kinds of interesting stories as you navigate this world educating people on the benefits of CBD. It’s been a lot of fun actually following you and seeing how you progress and how you’ve been really shining a light on this great information because if we can use CBD instead of or use it to reduce pain medication. Right now, in opioid epidemic that we’re in, if we can use anything natural just to help people either prevent ever needing to get opioids or help them to get off of it or help them to reduce it. All of that is a benefit. Just like my experience. Sitting here, I am so grateful I’m not in pain right now. Sitting here, like I said I injured my back. I’m just thinking about I would’ve absolutely taken over the counter drugs or prescription drug had that been offered to me if I didn’t know of the benefits of using hemp for pain reduction. It works which is great.


[01:27:05] Rachna Patel: I would say that if we’re going to talk about the opioid epidemic in the context of the solution when I think CBD oil is that –


[01:27:17] Ashley James: Absolutely. Well, you’ve been helping people both in a clinical setting one on one as with doctor-patient experience. Consulting people around the world so you’ve had that experience of working with people, helping them to use CBD and use medical marijuana to get off of drugs, the help of prescription medications to lower prescription medications. Also, with their medications. You’ve actually seen hundreds of people be successful using these methods. Do you have any success stories that you would like to share specifically that comes to mind in terms of using CBD and getting off of pain medication or reducing pain medication?


[01:28:03] Rachna Patel: So many, thousands of stories but specifically what comes to mind are my patients with fibromyalgia because that’s a condition that tends to be very resistant to conventional medications. These patients, the medications are just piled up on top of them to that point where they taking like essentially a cocktail of prescription meds. A lot of times they’ll go back to their doctors and complain that, “This isn’t working” or “That isn’t working”. These patients they’re dismissed that they’re told that it’s all in your head. The pain that you’re experiencing is in your head. When these patients have come to me, I put them on a regimen of CBD and or THC. They’re in tears. They’re saying “You know doctor Patel, nobody’s believed me. For the longest time I’ve been trying drug upon drug upon drug and now I’m at a point where I can manage my pain with just the form of cannabis that I’m using”. I think that’s tremendous. Both on the patients end and on my end to be able to witness that. To be actually be able to solve someone’s problem from my end but for the patient to experience that sort of relief because they’re prisoners of their medications. Medications that aren’t working for them and now they’re using these medication on an as-needed basis to help manage their pain. It’s a lot of freedom that comes with it.


[01:29:46] Ashley James: Absolutely. I’m so excited to hear that. That’s phenomenal. Well, I’ll continue to look forward to learning more from you, following you on Facebook, watching your live Facebook and Instagram videos, seeing all the questions come out of the woodwork and seeing what happen in this industry over the next few years. Like I said, we’re pioneers. It’s all just starting. It’s all just starting out since it’s legal now and we can see the studies start to come in and the result starts to come in terms of all the benefits that CBD can provide us. It’s very exciting. Now I do have a question, would like to participate, I can edit this out if not but would you like to participate in providing something like a drawing for the Facebook group?


[01:30:44] Rachna Patel: Yes. We could do a free drawing for a book. What I can do is I could put up a post. Do you have a group? I think you have the group, don’t you? Facebook group?


[01:30:53] Ashley James: Yes. Learn True Health Facebook group.


[01:30:56] Rachna Patel: Yes. I think I’m actually a part of it. What I can do is out a post, I’ll share a post through my page and that can just be shared. It’s worked for me before but basically whoever shares it, likes it, tags other people will end up running a book.


[01:31:17] Ashley James: Awesome. That’ll be great. Normally, I do the post in the Facebook group but you can do the post. It’s totally fine. So listeners just jump in to the Facebook group after listening to this. Go to Learn True Health in Facebook, find the group or you can go to learntruehealth.com/group that’ll redirect you to the group. Look for Doctor Patel’s post and we’ll have it up for about a week after we publish this episode and comment in order to enter to win her book, to win it for free.


[01:31:51] Rachna Patel: Okay. Awesome.


[01:31:52] Ashley James: All right. Fantastic. It’s been wonderful having you back on the show. Is there anything that you would like to say to wrap up today’s interview or anything left unsaid?


[01:32:03] Rachna Patel: No. I would just tell your listeners just to tune in on my YouTube channel and I’ll continue to answer more questions on there.


[01:32:10] Ashley James: All right. Fantastic. Well, it’s been great having you back on the show.


[01:32:14] Rachna Patel: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.


Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition and how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity? Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business, support people in their success? Do you love helping people? You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach. I highly recommend checking out the Institute for Integrated Nutrition. I just spent the last year in their health-coaching sort of vacation program and it really blew me away. It was so amazing. I learned over a hundred dietary theories. I learned all about nutrition but from the standpoint on how we can help people to shift their life, to shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health. I definitely recommend you check them out. You can google Institute for Integrated Nutrition or IIN, or give them a call or you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training. So check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in. Be sure to mention my name, Ashley James and the Learn True Health podcast because I made a deal with them that they would give you the best price possible. I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program. I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information. We need more health coaches. In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field. So many health coaches are getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic offices, doctor’s offices, you can work in hospitals. You can work online through Skype and help people around the world. You can become an author. You can go into the school system and help with your local schools shift their programs to help children be healthier. You can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them and their success and their health goals. There’s so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach. So check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrated Nutrition. Mention my name. Get the best deal. Give them a call and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you. Classes are starting soon. The next round of classes are starting at the end of the month, so you’re going to want to call them now and check it out. If you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.


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Jennifer Fugo And Ashley James

Discover how Jennifer Fugo, a Clinical Nutritionist embarked her journey on finding out the various root causes of different skin conditions like eczema and psoriasis. Be inspired as she narrates how she overcame her painful experience of having skin condition called Dyshidrotic eczema. Moreover, know whether topical treatment really work as well as the do’s and don’ts of treating skin conditions. 


Are you looking to optimize your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price– that’s takeyoursupplements.com Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.


[00:43:00] Ashley James:  Welcome to the Learn true health podcast. I’m your host Ashley James. This is Episode 360.

We’re in for such a treat today. We have back on the show with us Jennifer Fugo, she was with us on Episode 198. That’s a lot of episodes between when we last had you on, we talked about your gluten free school which is now transitioning to have your gluten free school be underneath your umbrella of Jenniferfugo.com but that’s not what we’re here to talk about today but listeners can definitely go back to Episode 198 and listen to your story and great advice around going gluten free.

Today’s episode is all about skin health. I hear almost weekly from my listeners about rashes, skin irritation and hives– histamine issue. The list goes on and on. Some people have skin issues that they have been diagnosed like eczema or psoriasis and others just have these rashes pop up and they’re itchy and or scaly skin and or acne. All these skin issues on the outside, wearing our illness on the outside, we become so self-conscious because everyone can see what’s going on. We really want to get to the root of it. You’re here today to share with us how we can interrupt those old patterns and create wonderful skin health. Jennifer’s podcast is called the Healthy Skin Show and her website is skinterrupt.com— combinations of the words skin and interrupt which is really cool. Jennifer, welcome back to the show.


[02:38:00] Jennifer Fugo: Thank you so much for having me, Ashley. I have to tell you, this is one of the podcasts that I feel deeply honored to be back because you are an amazing person and you’ve led the charge in helping so many people change their lives. You just got such a great audience as well. It’s just a deep honor to be here for the second time. Thank you for having me back.


[03:01:00] Ashley James: Well, thank you. I’m really excited for you to help all of our listeners who have skin issues to resolve them today. For those who didn’t get to hear you in Episode 198, can you take us back? Share a bit about your story and what led you to want to work with people in order to correct their health and heal their skin.

[03:25:00] Jennifer Fugo: Yes. What was interesting when we talked in the previous episode it was mostly about the Gut issues that I had struggled with. If we fast forward a bunch, I went to Grad School to become a Clinical Nutritionist because while I had loved working with people from the food perspective I really wanted to dive deeper into underlying reasons that were driving Autoimmune Disease and inflammatory conditions. I love biochemistry. I learned that I love it however, in the process of going to Grad School and being under an enormous amount of stress. I started to develop these– I don’t know how to describe them other than it would look like these little crystals, like little balls underneath my skin on my fingers. I was like, “What is that?” It looked almost like a white head but it wasn’t. I couldn’t figure out what it was, I couldn’t get them. I didn’t feel anything just under my skin and I never noticed them before.

As the summer kind of went into full force, the area became increasingly red and itchy then eventually, those little pustules burst. I thought, “Did I get poison ivy?” I’m like, trying to figure out what it is. I’ve never had that in my life. I went to my dad who’s a doctor and he’s like, “Oh, it’s some sort of dermatitis.” I was like, “Dermatitis? What is that?” It turns out that I did not have some random dermatitis. I had developed a condition called Dyshidrotic eczema, it’s a type of eczema but it affects the hands and the feet. Fortunately, it only affected my hands which has this good positive benefits because I didn’t have a problem walking but in the same respect affecting the palms of your hands can have a major detriment upon your life.

That summer I watched as what became these little rashes turn into massive patches of red skin that cover the palms of my hands up to the sides and the webbing of my fingers down the tops of the fingers and even started to destroy the nails themselves.

You might say like, “That stinks. Your hands are itchy.” Let me just tell you that if you’ve never had eczema on your hands, I’m not saying that it’s any better or worse than anybody else’s different types of eczema, they have but it’s a real challenge to open doorknobs. I couldn’t exercise anymore. I had a really hard time holding anything. I had to wear these blue gloves that I bought at a Home Depot because I couldn’t touch anything. I couldn’t wash my hands anymore because water burns so badly. I couldn’t wash my hair or take a shower.

It really impacts your life a lot. If you have rashes elsewhere, you can cover them up a lot of times with clothing but when it’s the palms of your hands and it’s the middle of summer it’s very difficult to avoid when you meet a new person to not shake their hand. When people see that your hands look all red, rashy, and oozy, you have some sort of infection, they don’t want to touch your hands to shake it. I was in so much physical discomfort and also this horrible sense of being dirty or disgusting. Almost like you’re a leper in modern day and there was no way for me to hide it. You walk around with baby blue gloves on, everybody can see that and like “Why are you wearing those?”

I went to a dermatologist. They basically said steroid creams and Vaseline to keep the moisture. I’m like “Vaseline, like how impractical and I wouldn’t want to put a petroleum-based derivative on my skin that’s all open and whatnot.” As the winter came around, those red burning, oozing, itchy rashes turned into incredibly fragile dry skin. Remember, it’s all on my hands, every time I would bend my fingers, it would break. I ended up with what felt like 1000 paper cuts all over my hand.

I’ve tried all sorts of stabs. I used to wear gloves to bed to try and keep the moisture in these fabric gloves. I was just desperate for relief and it would come and go. Finally, I just had enough. I was a nutritionist at this point and I felt ashamed, to be honest with you. I thought that I’m supposed to be this pinnacle of health and here I am having this really serious condition. People don’t even want to touch me; they don’t want to shake my hand. How can I go give a talk with blue gloves on? I had to stop taking cooking classes and whatnot. My husband, I have to credit him with being the inspiration for writing my attitude and showing me that this could be an opportunity for me to look at myself as a client and say, “What would you do to help yourself if you walked into your office?” That was what set me down the path of thinking, maybe there is something else that I can do while Google hadn’t turned up very much that was helpful. Maybe I need to think about this from a different perspective and that’s really where my journey began. I can tell you that I have been completely 100% in remission for at least the last year and a half.

No more flares. I’ve been really appreciative of all the connections that I’ve made and I’m very passionate now about sharing everything that I learned with people who are stuck in this boat of suffering from skin rashes.


[09:34:00] Ashley James: When we were talking before we hit record, you said that since we last spoke, you are going in a new direction that is so authentic to who you are. Now having heard this side of your story, I can really hear the authenticity in your voice that this is your calling although the gluten-free school was definitely mission-driven. You were definitely out to help people to heal at the root level their skin is your calling. I can definitely hear that passion in your voice and it’s very exciting because I’ve known many people with skin issues that were suffering like you were for years and all they were given from medical doctors was steroids.

I knew one woman who was in her early 20s. She had been on the steroids since she was six years old. It was $700 a month. If she wasn’t on it, she couldn’t leave the house. She was in agony. Her entire body from head to toe was covered in eczema so bad that her whole body would burn. One year someone stole her purse and she didn’t have an extra $700 to buy the cream and so she suffered for a whole month until she could get the money together to buy an extra tube.  I had said to her, “Have you ever read the side effects?” She came back almost crying because it said do not take for more than two weeks. She was about 21 at the time and she’d been on it since she was six. This meets the number one side effect and concern– the reason why they say discontinue after two weeks is that it causes cancer.


[11:30:00] Jennifer Fugo: The other piece too is one side effect– it’s a major problem known by different names. It’s called Red Burning Skin Syndrome. It’s also called Topical Steroid Addiction or Topical Steroid Withdrawal. When you are constantly on topical steroids your skin essentially develops an addiction to the steroid cream because the steroids are a pot of water that’s boiling over except you put a lid on it and the steroid cream is the lid. You’re keeping the inflammation that’s bubbling up under the surface but there’s still something going on. You take that steroid cream away and all of a sudden the symptom goes completely haywire. For example, you have eczema on the front of your thighs, you’ve been using a steroid cream for a really long time but you decide, “I’m going to go cold turkey. I’m just going to get rid of it, not going to use it anymore.” What can happen if you develop this condition? Now, the steroid creams are gone, the rash will get worse. Not only will it get worse but it will spread and alert many cases where it spreads to your entire body. It creates such a level of pain and suffering that is horrific for many people.

It’s flaky skin, red, itchy stinging rashes that are all over. Not just in the original place where the eczema or the rash was. You can end up with swelling, fatigue, infections, increased skin sensitivity and this can take up to a year to go away. There is a real concern that there is a lack of coaching amongst dermatologists and primary care doctors who are just saying “Oh, we’ll use a steroid cream.” Additionally, the other issue is that while you are putting this on the skin, it can thin the skin as well. It’s another long term problem. You can end up with discoloration and scarring but it also can affect your adrenal because you’re putting a steroid cream on your skin that is absorbed into the body.

There is really fascinating yet sad research demonstrating that the start long term steroid cream use does impact adrenal gland function. It’s even worse in children and babies because they’re so small and so young. I’m not saying anyone listening to this should stop using their steroid creams or throw them away. I think there’s a way to use them responsibly while you’re trying to do other things. I certainly did use it on my journey which I’m happy to talk about to how I made my shift. I wanted just caution anyone listening “Oh, my gosh. It’s like poison. I have to throw it away.” Don’t do that.


[14:44:00] Ashley James: Right. Neither one of us is a doctor. We cannot prescribe drugs. We cannot tell people to get off of a prescription. You definitely want to work with your dermatologist when tight trading off of medication or off of a skin cream that is medicated.

I like your idea of why don’t we come in and work on the root cause. Nitrify the body, correct the diet and lifestyle, figure out what happened that created this illness in the first place. Heal the body that way and get the body so strong that we can come off of the steroid cream, slowly while we’re bolstering the body and then we can have a smoother transition. Is that what you did? Did you have a smooth transition?


[15:34:00] Jennifer Fugo: No.


 [15:39:00] Ashley James: Did you just throw your cream and go cold turkey?


 [15:42:00] Jennifer Fugo: No. I was having trouble sleeping through the night. I would wake up sometimes and had discovered that I was scratching my hands in the middle of the night and then rip gashes in my skin. Discuss it with your doctor but the goal is to use the steroid cream as little as possible and as least frequent as possible. There are different theories like you’re on for so long and then you go off of it and you sort of alternate back and forth. I would just try to use it as sparingly as possible. In actuality, it’s interesting because there’s a lot of root causes. Right now I’m up to 16. There’s overlap amongst a few of them. It was 15, I recently added 16th, which is actually drug reactions.

A lot of people don’t realize that there are very common medications that can trigger your skin rashes and even things like psoriasis.

There are actual medications with psoriasis that can trigger problems. It’s important to understand that it’s not just a skin problem. I think that’s an important place to preface this conversation. I like to think of the body like ancient technology. The way it tells us things, communicates and sends us messages is sort of like through smoke signals. I wish it was computer technology but it’s not.  We would be like, “Oh, yes.  My vitamin A is low.” We would just know that right off the bat but we don’t instead, we have to get all of these random symptoms. The other piece to this is that the skin as far as priorities of Oregon systems are concerned is the lowest on the totem pole. You could walk around with gashes and wounds due to rashes that will not heal but if God forbid something happens to your heart or your brain or your lungs, you will die because those organs are more important. You can’t survive if your thyroid function is non-existent or if you don’t have any function in your mitochondria. That underscores the importance of saying, “What type of skin rash condition I have? What if the symptoms themselves are actually symptoms of something else going on deeper in the body?”   Take a look and say, “What can we ask our team from within and outside to help us put the pieces together?” There are a lot of root causes. Typically, in my experience, people have a combination of about three to five which is why, unfortunately what may work for one person, may not work for another person.

Do you want me to just share quickly what my list is?


[19:05:00] Ashley James: Yeah. I’ve got a pen and paper here. I’ve already written down number one which is drug reactions and waiting to write down the next 15.


[19:14:00] Jennifer Fugo: All right. We’ve got number two which is Mitochondrial Dysfunction — poor energy generation at the cellular level and we’re not efficiently producing ATP. We’ve got Hormone imbalances, Unmanaged stress, Heavy metals, Environmental toxins –that could even include like paint fumes, raid on, off gassing, new carpeting or paints—


[19:45:00] Ashley James: Mattresses, Memory Foam, off gases.  I think there are eight carcinogens in memory foam.


[19:50:00] Jennifer Fugo: Exactly. Your jeans certainly play a role in some of this and we can talk more about that if you’d like. Diet and Food reactions are a piece of it but they are not as big of a piece as a lot of people think. Microbiome Dysbiosis is another one however when I say this, I want to clarify that this includes not just the gut microbiome but also the microbiome that lives on the skin and they are different, however, they communicate with one another.


[20:23:00] Ashley James: Can I just rub yogurt on my face? Would that help the microbiome on the skin?


[20:32:00] Jennifer Fugo: For some people, they might find that works. I know that people who don’t really have horrible skin conditions and maybe they’ve just got some dry skin may find that helpful. For a lot of people that do have skin rash conditions, there’s usually a lot more involved than just a yogurt mask.

I wish it was that easy but not always. Environmental allergies are another piece to that– like pollen, dogs, cats, horses, cockroaches. There are also a lot of chemicals in our environment that I personally never even knew about until I started really digging into this. These are formaldehyde– all sorts of things that are coding. Very common substances or items that we use in our daily life that you wouldn’t think had any chemical sprayed on them and they do. You can even have an allergy to your shoes. Some people who have rashes, severe cracking and pain with their feet can have Shoe Allergy. There are definite environmental allergies that have to be identified and looked at. 

Nutritional deficiencies certainly play a role in skin rash conditions. Autoimmunity and Autoinflammation, I consider those to be sort of in the same bucket. Gut Dysfunction and Liver Detox Challenges. We’ve also got trauma. Maybe your father died at a very young age and obviously, as a child that was traumatic for you. Maybe you were in a bad marriage or you went through a period of time where you lost your home or one of the crashes and whatnot. It could be anything from a really big trauma to little tiny trauma. I’ve even had some people discuss sexual assault in the past and whatnot. And then last but not least, thyroid dysfunction.


[22: 42:00] Ashley James: I think I wrote down 17. We’ve got the Environmental Allergens and the Environmental Toxins which were different. I wrote down 17. You got 17 root causes now.


[23:06:00] Jennifer Fugo: Maybe I do.


[23: 11:00] Ashley James: It totally makes sense. A few of them relate to histamine. When you say Diet reactions and Environmental Allergens both would trigger histamine. Is histamine the root cause? Is histamine what’s causing the skin issue?


[23:36:00] Jennifer Fugo: What’s interesting is that not everybody has an issue with histamine. When it comes to eczema, some people can have more histamine present. They have chronic urticaria or hives that can also certainly be a concern. There’s too much histamine in their system or they’re consuming foods– lots of fermented foods are not always good for people with chronic skin issues. One of the first questions I asked someone on the phone is “Oh, well, I have ecz.” I go, “Okay, can you please tell me the symptoms of your experience of that particular skin condition?” They sometimes pause and they’re like “Why? That’s what I have.” I’m like, “I understand but your symptoms are going to be different than someone else’s. You can’t assume that because you have eczema or you have psoriasis. It’s the same exact problem that’s triggered this issue.”

I have had clients who some have histamine issues and I’m part of their eczema issue. I have other clients with eczema who have no issues with histamine at all.


[24: 48:00] Ashley James: Very cool. So, histamine isn’t at the root cause but it can be sort of the trigger.


[24:56:00] Jennifer Fugo: Exactly.


[24: 59:00] Ashley James: How do you feel about going through each one and unpacking them?


[25:03:00] Jennifer Fugo: I don’t know if we have time for all of that. We can certainly talk about a few of them.

The one that we started with number one, the drug reactions piece was the most shocking to me because a lot of people assume that over the counter drugs are safe. Again, this conversation is not meant to at all demonize medication because my dad’s a doctor and a surgeon and frankly, I don’t necessarily think with skin issues, we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, “Oh, we don’t need any of the medications that are available.” I don’t actually think that’s entirely true. I think there are a time and a place and whatever you choose to do you should jump in with your eyes wide open. The biggest piece people are promised is “Oh, if you take this pill or you get the shots, you’re going to be better.”

I literally had a conversation with a woman this morning that has horrible full-body eczema. She has been on Dupixent which is one of the biologic drugs that is supposed to be the spike Godsend to completely cure your eczema so you no longer have it and you walk around eczema free. She said it makes her living experience more tolerable however, she still has incredible itching; her face looks like it’s constantly burnt. The Dupixent has not fully addressed her issue and she’s like, “I can’t live like this. I need to find out what is driving the inflammation underneath the whole thing!”

With psoriasis, there were some really surprising drugs and I only found this out because a woman who tuned in to my Eczema and Psoriasis Awareness Week last year had rung me and said, “Did you know that a blood pressure medication could actually cause your psoriasis.” I was like, “Excuse me.”  It turns out that these very common medications are called Beta-blockers as well as Ace inhibitors. Those are two classes and there are also Angiotensin Receptor Blockers. All three of those have the potential to trigger or worsen psoriasis for people.

Other ones that you might also be surprised about are like Lithium. If you’ve been taking Lithium to help with your mood, you can have skin-related side effects. We see that for about up to 45% of people who take them and who take those supplements.

Anti-infection medications– one very common is Plaquenil. There are people who take that that can cause flares on about 31% of people who have psoriasis. Plaquenil is considered an Immunosuppressant drug. The other class of medications which maybe you’ve talked about on your show is the Fluoroquinolones which are a class of antibiotics that actually in at least in the United States has a warning placed on it by the FDA because of so many problems with it. The most popular drugs that people probably know is Cipro. Aside from the fact that there are potential issues with how it can damage mitochondrial function, this is one of those drug classes that can actually cause problems for people with psoriasis and other skin issues. Tetracycline, interferon, and TNF or tumor necrosis factor alpha-inhibitors medication can do this. A lot of these are biologic medications which shockingly are medications that are prescribed to people with psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis like Remicade and Humira. I’m not trying to scare people. The point is to say, “Hey, I really actually should read what the side effects could be.” While the 2% doesn’t seem like a lot, what happens if you are the 2%?

I’ve talked about with the Gut stuff and said drugs– non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen but that can also trigger or worsen psoriasis as well. There’s a lot of gut involvement with enzymes that can increase gut permeability, as well as the risk of Gut bleeding throughout either the stomach or the GI system. It’s important, as far as drugs are concerned, to just take a look at all the medications that you’re on and double-check that they aren’t maybe the reason for why this happened. Think back to the time around when the rashes started in. Did you start medication? You know, it’s important to think about these types of things.

The most common piece to a lot of this that I see is typically Gut Dysfunction. When I say dysfunction, I actually include Gut infections or Dysbiosis and the Nutritional Deficiencies piece– those two are huge problems.


[30: 08:00] Ashley James: Let’s get into those then. I do have a question about drugs. Have you seen that some people have their skin problem because it was triggered by a drug that they were on? Let’s say a course of antibiotics like the tetracycline. Or they were on a blood pressure medication and now they’re no longer taking it, the drugs are no longer in their system but the skin issues still there? Is the drug what triggered it and turned it on? They have four or five other things all contributing to their inflammation now, those other issues are continuing it. Do you see the drugs kind of like start the fire? Or do you find that when drugs are the reason why that they have a skin problem, that when they switch their medication or get off of a drug that the skin issue goes away?


[31:04:00] Jennifer Fugo: That’s really complicated because if you took one of these antibiotics, it’s like dropping a bomb in your gut. At that point, whether you stay on that antibiotic or not, you’ve now dramatically impacted the makeup of your microbiome. You allow for opportunistic bugs to go crazy; yeast and fungal organisms. If you inhale, swallow or eat contaminated foods that get through your stomach, you can end up with infections. That’s a tricky question. I don’t know that I actually have the answer to that. A lot of people have these things in their past. That’s a bigger problem from what I see on my end.

Gut is one piece to this however, new research is telling us that there are very distinct communication conduit, so to speak between the microbiome in the gut and the microbiome that is on the skin. To be clear in case anybody’s thinking, “Oh, well, the bugs must be the same.” They’re not. There are similar classes of bacteria or phyla of bacteria but they’re not the same exact types because the bacteria on the skin eat lipids, it’s called a Lipid dome. Whereas the bugs that live in the digestive system really prefer to eat fiber.  We know about FodMap foods and fermented foods.

Researchers showing us that when you have a healthy microbiome and you’re eating plenty of fermented fibers, they will produce their waste products called Short Chain Fatty Acids. Those Short Chain Fatty Acids are really important for the acidification of the gut microbiome because you actually want a more acidic colon. You don’t want an alkaline colon but you don’t want it to be too acidic.

The body regions, as far as pH is concerned need to be within very specific ranges in order to maintain a certain level of health. Part of the reasons why it’s too crowd out is there are bugs that shouldn’t be there. What research is telling us now about Short Chain Fatty Acids is that they actually communicate – that is the communication device of how the bugs in your gut are then establishing a healthy microbiome balance on the skin and butyrate which is one of the three. There are actually three short chain fatty acids but butyrate is one of the most important ones. When we have enough butyrate that can really help rebalance the microbiome of the skin — it’s not to say it’s going to fix all of your problems but you have to ask yourself, “Why don’t I have enough butyrate? Why don’t I have enough acetate or propionate? Why don’t I have enough of these?” It’s like an onion, you’re peeling back the layers. Do I have an infection? Do I have Gut Dysbiosis? What’s going on in the Gut? Am I not eating enough fiber? You have to really take a look at what’s under the hood so to speak. What is going on in the gut can show up on the skin.

I’m currently working with a boy whose 13 years old and unfortunately when we did stool test on him he came back having the most Gut infections I have ever had a client have. It was no wonder that nothing they did topically would work because it was so many problems underneath the surface and as a result the gut is no longer in a state where it wants to invite in nutrients because it’s leaky.

You don’t have to have gut symptoms to have Gut infections or dysbiosis. I have clients who have really messed up skin and they swear to me up and down, “I poop like a champ, poop 123 times a day. I’m really good. No problems, there are no gas, no bloating, no nothing.” They’re still tests come back with dysbiosis, too much yeast or infections. It just so happens that it manifest on the skin in that particular case. Don’t write off a Gut issue just because you don’t have any gas or bloating or you poop normal. It’s really important to look at the puzzle without judgment and take a look from the very basic things. I’m sure you know too, you do that with your clients. It’s always like, what’s going on with digestive function? Are we eating good quality food? Are we bringing in enough nutrients? That’s a big piece to this puzzle.


[36: 30:00] Ashley James: You mentioned a stool test, do you look at parasites? In some way, we could consider yeast, Candida as a parasite. Parasites don’t have to all be worms. It could be worms and flukes. Looking at parasites, is that something you’d add to your list as potentially causes for skin problems?


[36:57:00] Jennifer Fugo: Yes, absolutely. You’re looking at anything that shouldn’t or either shouldn’t be in the gut or isn’t too high of a proportion. Everybody under the sun has Candida in their gut. You should actually have it. It’s actually a normal commensal organism. You just shouldn’t have it in excessive amounts. We’re looking for fungal organisms and all different types. It doesn’t necessarily have to be Candida Albicans, Giardia– anything that really shouldn’t be there. There are certainly ways if we suspect for example that somebody who’s traveled extensively overseas. I have one client that did many tours over in Africa while he was working for a nonprofit. He’s living in the villages and eating their food and I was like, “You got to get checked for worms. You have to.” You have worms and parasites because you have a level of potential exposure that most people don’t have. A dermatologist can’t figure out what’s going on. It’s also Gut function making sure that you have enough stomach acid, that you’ve got enough digestive enzymes being produced by your pancreas and have enough bile. If you don’t have your gallbladder anymore, you’re not able to absorb fats. Nutritional deficiencies are a big piece to this if you don’t have enough vitamin A and vitamin D, which are both fat soluble or if your gut is just super leaky you have a higher incidence of fats being lost out of the stool.

If the gut is super leaky and unhappy, you can end up with Keratosis Pilari. That’s a very common sign of vitamin A deficiency where you get those little like chicken skin bumps on the back of the arms and whatnot. Vitamin D is also very important for the skin as well. The Gut is a big first piece to consider.


[39: 04:00] Ashley James: I love that you pointed that out. I was getting on the Examination Table when I was pregnant, my naturopath held my arm to help me—a giant pregnant lady trying to get on the examination table and her hand touched my elbow and she went, “Oh, you’re vitamin D deficient. We need to increase your vitamin D.”  I’m looking at her like “What are you, psychic? You just touched me and you know I’m vitamin D deficient.” She goes, “No, you’ve got these dry patches on your elbow.”  I’d never had them and I reached over and touch my elbow like “What is going on?” I could like sand wood with this skin around my arm.  All the skin around my elbow was like sandpaper and she said, “Yeah, that’s typical vitamin D deficiency.” Sure enough, increase my vitamin D went away. I was like,” What? How can that does so cool?”

You’re right. If someone doesn’t have their gallbladder, their diet and digestion isn’t allowing them to take in the fat soluble vitamins, digest them and absorb them and utilize them then we can end up with skin problems because those are the raw building blocks the body needs to create skin. What’s amazing about skin is that it is the reflection of our internal health and it’s the early warning system– it’s the canary in the coal mine. Instead of being upset when we have a skin problem, we can take on this level of excitement, “Oh, great. My body is telling me something’s wrong. There’s something that I can correct now, way before it becomes disease in the body.”

I only have so much vitamin C and the skin needs it but the body is so intelligent that it’ll take the nutrients we give it and it’ll give it to the organs that are most important first. That’s why when we get thin hair, our skin starts to suffer and our nails start to become brittle. These lesser important systems of the body will see the effects of Nutrient Deficiency first before the heart and the liver does so we can correct it. The good news is it’s on our body where we can clearly see there’s something wrong.


[41:31:00] Jennifer Fugo: It is. One piece of this which is worth mentioning because it’s a term that has become more popular is Leaky Gut. A lot of people haven’t yet or are just hearing about a term called Leaky Skin. It actually doesn’t sound that lovely and it sounds awful.


[42: 01:00] Ashley James: It sounds like a zombie show.


[42:04:00] Jennifer Fugo: Yeah, it’s just not good. Leaky Skin is essentially where there’s so much inflammation happening within the body and at the level of the skin. It’s both internal and the outside.  I think we have to look outside in and inside out– that’s really the two directions we need to look with skin.

Let me just break this down a little bit for people. How do I end up with inflammation on the outside? Yes, it could certainly be due to a microbiome imbalance. You could have staph infection or overgrowth of any number of things but also just itching– itching in and of itself increases the inflammation in the skin which is another reason why I said don’t just throw out your steroid creams because you do to some degree have to try as you’re working on the “alternative and natural stuff”.  You have to maintain some level of not just sanity but to decrease the amount of gashing that you’re doing to your skin trying to stop or quell that itch.

When we think about what the skin really is– it’s like a bunch of bricks or the shingles of a house. We start to see a breakdown of the glue that holds the shingles together in one nice pattern that will help A. retain moisture within the skin but also B. keep things very smooth and lovely looking.

What’s really fascinating is that there is this gene called Filaggrin. We see that there is an increased rate of Filaggrin dysfunction. Filaggrin is a gene but it also codes for a very specific protein called Filaggrin that helps keep the skin barrier nice and tight. When we start to see when inflammation elevates, it disrupts the way that the gene is coded and you start getting funky filaggrin that can’t really operate correctly.

A lot of the research and the interviews that I’ve done show that people who have hand eczema have a higher increased risk of having just an actual genetic snip in Filaggrin. You don’t necessarily need to have a snip in it to have an issue with the way your body produces Filaggrin. I talked to Dr. Peter Leo who’s a very well respected and brilliant dermatologist. He had said that just any level of inflammation, whether it’s from scratching or its internal will cause a disruption in the way the body produces Filaggrin. It’s critical to try to reduce the inflammation no matter what you need to do because that is really a big deal. I just want to also specify that this isn’t just affecting people with eczema, it also affects people with psoriasis and I would likely assume that it probably affects people with other chronic skin rash conditions as well. There are other genes out there that we should be aware of per se but if you’ve got an autoimmune condition like psoriasis or scleroderma there are typically genes associated with those conditions. There is some level of genetic susceptibility. Filaggrin is probably the number one to really pay attention to but there’s no way inexpensively to get tested for this. I don’t know if you can find out from 23andMe test. At the end of the day, I’m not really sure what value would do if you even found out you had a snip on it but genes certainly play a role.

When you have this Leaky Skin condition which most people have when they have skin issues, it’s really important to be judicious about what you’re putting on your skin and what you are eating. I don’t want to make people crazy with their diet— that’s always my fear. I don’t want to instill food fear in people because you’re always going, “What’s the next thing we can take out? What’s the next thing we should avoid? What’s bad for us?” We are oftentimes kind of get lost amongst the trees. I always think, “Let’s try and eat the most nutrient-rich diet humanly possible.” Cut out the junk, just cut it out– that’s the first step. Cut it out because if you came to see me, that’s the first thing that I’m going to tell you to do. We’ve got to make sure that its nutrient rich because that way we’re not just supporting the skin but our thyroid and liver. We’re supporting many different areas that require nutrients in order to function properly.  

Coconut oil is not something that anyone with skin rashes should put on their skin. I even am at a point where I’m starting to wonder if it’s not the greatest idea for people who have perfectly clear skin as well. You’ve got to be really judicious about what you put on your skin. There are a lot of products at grocery stores and pharmacies that are geared toward super dry skin and their eczema formulas — those things are formulated in such a way that you constantly require the use of them. They actually dry your skin out so you keep using them. We go to the natural stuff and the first thing people read about online is coconut oil and it’s really not a good idea for rashes.

[48:27:00] Ashley James: Why is that?


[48:30:00] Jennifer Fugo: Remember how I was telling you that the colon is an actually an acidic environment, the skin is as well. Your skin ideally should have a pH between 4.5 and five, maybe 5.5. It’s a tight little slice of the pH scale and that’s healthy. For those who think like everything’s got to be alkaline. It is actually healthy for certain areas to be acidic.

Coconut oil– first of all, it’s way too alkaline. It comes in and around a pH of eight. When I said that it is important that the colon is acidic because if it gets imbalanced and the pH goes high or low, it invites in organisms that shouldn’t live there and the same happens with the skin– that’s number one. You might be thinking, “What if you have like bad bugs living on your skin? Wouldn’t you want it because it’s really antimicrobial?” It makes complete sense– that’s what I used to think but unfortunately, coconut oil is so incredibly anti-microbial that it decimates the microbiome on the skin leaving it wide open for opportunistic bugs to take up residence, which is not what you want.

If you got the skin rashes, we know right there you’ve got some state of Leaky Skin. You’ve also likely got Dysbiosis on the skin. Is it really smart? Think about it. If you know you’ve got Dysbiosis, would you just throw antibiotics? You’d be like, “No, that doesn’t make any sense.”  I’m not saying Coconut oil is an antibiotic but you have to understand that the level of anti-microbial capacity of coconut oil is way too high for your skin.

Oftentimes, people just put oil on the skin. The bugs don’t just like magically repack back up. They don’t reappear because it takes time to reestablish a microbiome. The last big problem is that the molecules are so saturated and the molecules of coconut oil are so large. It’s very difficult for them to actually penetrate into the skin which is why it oftentimes feels that coconut oil will stay on the surface of the skin. It does not absorb in and sometimes it causes hot situation on the skin which is very uncomfortable for people. It makes it difficult for the skin to breathe.

I’ve even had a few people describe it to me as kind of felt almost like I had saran wrap around my arm or whatever. I just didn’t put two and two together. I will say just from a clinical perspective, I have had more and more clients who have discovered that it was actually causing almost like an allergic reaction. I have one client that had severe swelling across her face and her eyes were all red and super itchy. She already had a rash there and read online on someone’s website that you should use coconut oil. She started using coconut oil and it was getting worse and worst. She couldn’t figure out what the problem was and finally came across this article that’s on my website about the issues with coconut oil. I advised her to stop within about a week; she noticed such a significant improvement. She’s like, “I have almost no rash on my face anymore. I had no idea that it was actually the coconut oil.”

We have a ton of comments from people who have acknowledged that coconut oil either made their skin rashes worse. I have one woman– a massage therapist that commented that she would always use coconut oil on clients and massage table. Her hands as a result have gotten so bad from using coconut oil. I love coconut oil. It’s not to demonize it or to say that it is bad but I think maybe we’ve gone a little too foreign assuming that it’s good for everything.

I have talked with experts who have done testing on the antimicrobial capacity of coconut oil and they advised me that it was not a good option. I have also talked to aestheticians who have a lot of experience in formulation and working with people with chronic skin conditions. They too also said it is really one of the worst choices. You need to look at your skincare products with skincare ingredient labels, the same applies as food. The first ingredients are the highest concentration and the lower ones are the least if it’s really in. I would say the top two thirds in the ingredients are probably not a good product for you to be using.

There are some instances where it may be okay for me, I wouldn’t mind if it’s one of the probably top two thirds. I wouldn’t use it if it was the first at all. I don’t have skin rashes anymore and I don’t use a whole lot of oils anymore on my skin aside from Ahava. If you have got skin Dysbiosis you should not go anywhere near coconut oil.


[54:14:00] Ashley James: I know everyone’s different because someone might react and the other person thinks it’s wonderful. There’s no blanket statement, we all have to do trial and error. What are your favorite ingredients that are helpful for supporting skin health when they’re also working on healing themselves internally?


[54:38:00] Jennifer Fugo: I love Ahava oil because it is the closest to the human sebum. It’s just very nice and inexpensive as well. Sesame seed oil, not the stuff you cook with but the actual stuff made for body care can be great. I find that if you’re in a cold environment or winter time it’s great because it’s very warming. In the summertime, it’s probably too heavy and it also has a really intense smell so you might not want to put that on as your daily oil. Avocado oil and Olive oil are really good options as well. There’s also some really interesting good research on sunflower oil and eczema.

As far as herbs are concerned, Calendula is amazing. Assuming, you don’t have an allergy to the daisy family since it is a part of the daisy family. Just make sure if you’ve got outdoor pollen allergy issues, you just want to make sure that that’s not one. I love stinging nettles but more so to support the liver. Stinging nettles and Quercetin together can be a really amazing support for histamine. It’s a great antioxidant as well.

As far as the skin is concerned, I think one of the biggest things is to stop showering every day. I know that sounds very simplistic but we oftentimes over shower and over sudsing. You do not need to suds your entire body– it is absolutely unnecessary unless you’re really filthy. A lot of times the water is enough and you should only be sudsing the armpits, groin and rear end. Showering every day can be really tough. Again, I’m not a doctor but my suggestion is to see if you can get down to showering every other day or every three days that way we’re just reducing the depletion of the healthy flora. Don’t be afraid to get outside and be in the dirt. There’s some incredible research that’s coming out about the circadian rhythm and being out in the sun assuming you can tolerate it, getting your hands in the dirt assuming you didn’t have some sort of hand eczema issue but exposing yourself to healthy bacteria. It can be super important and a lot of times the disconnection with the outdoor environment and excessive amounts of stressors in your life certainly play a role.


[58:04:00] Ashley James: Absolutely. Stress is huge. I like that you said to get out in nature. You’re getting vitamin D from the sun and you’re decreasing stress from bathing in nature. For example, digging in the dirt gardening– is there a link between interacting with the healthy bacteria in nature such as gardening and our skin’s bacteria?


[58:33:00] Jennifer Fugo: Absolutely. The more fascinating pieces that I’m constantly reading upon is the Microbiome and the Skin. One big problem is that we’ve reached over sanitizing everything. Everything is like kills 99.999% of bacteria. Why do we need to assume that all bacteria are going to kill us? It doesn’t mean they’re necessarily bad. There are not friendly bugs out there but we used to have an abundant population of what are known as Ammonia-Oxidizing Bacteria on the skin.  They were considered the Peacekeepers of the skin.

We’re now seeing this rise within the skincare industry of companies that are essentially engineering probiotic-based skincare products to help reestablish that microbiome. I know that Mother Dirt is one company that specifically uses those ammonia-oxidizing bacteria. I’ve come across a number of other companies as well that are integrating probiotics into their product. I think Skin Probiotics is one company that’s specifically all the formulas are generated around probiotics. The big companies, I think it is L’Oreal– I don’t remember which big company but they’re coming out with now ways to test the acidity of your skin. I wouldn’t be surprised within the next probably two to five years we will eventually have a really easy at-home test for you to check the microbiome of your skin since the ones for the Gut have done so well.

Being outside is a critical piece. It can be hard for people who have a lot of environmental allergies, I do understand that. This is general advice and it may not work for everyone. You’re going to have to pick and choose what you can do and what will work for you.

Stress reduction is important not just for the body as a whole but stress can be a major trigger for so many things. There are a lot of people that have found the connection between stressors and their skin rash flares. Even with psoriasis, there’s some interesting research showing that there’s a real decrease in serum melatonin in people who have psoriasis. When we have low melatonin it can make it very difficult to sleep at night. When you’re not sleeping well or you’re just so uncomfortable and you’re itching like mad because your cortisol has gone high in the evening. As a result, there’s this really cool correlation between elevated cortisol and increased itching at night. We’re just not regenerating within our body the way we should and it’s incredibly stressful. It depletes our micronutrients. It depletes antioxidants. It really wears down your mitochondria and taxes your liver tremendously and it makes it a lot easier for your gut to become leaky.

We can argue that Leaky Gut comes from enzymes or gut infections or too much yeast. Stress plays a huge role in what happens in your Gut. It affects everything. We have to take that seriously and consider the solutions. “The solutions for stress reduction” as seriously as say the supplements you might want to go by because oftentimes what I find and I don’t know if this has been your experience as well Ashley, but a lot of times people are like, “Can I just take a supplement?” I’ll say, “Could you sit for two minutes a day and breathe? I’m really busy. I’ll try.” We’ll talk a month later I’m like, “So, how did the breathing exercises go?” “I do not like once and then I kind of forgot.”

I assure you, they’ve taken all their supplements just fine. I’m not laughing at anyone, it just makes me chuckle that the thing that’s free, oftentimes tends to be the hardest things for us to comply with because we don’t perceive the value of them to be as great as something that maybe cost you 3995.


 [01:03:27] Ashley James: Anyone who’s listening, I will charge you 3995 and I’ll sit with you for two minutes a day. We’ll get on the phone, you’ll breathe and you can just pay me.  I’ll just sit on the phone and we’ll breathe then you will value reducing your stress. People can pay to go to meditation classes and Yoga classes. You can pay for apps. There’s Calm Beats or something– they can pay for the pro version. There are things that we could pay to perceived more value. You’re right. The best ways of reducing stress are free– walking, journaling, breathing, hugging, laughing–.


[01:04:10] Jennifer Fugo:  Put on your favorite music, sing and dance in the comforts of your own home. Dance like nobody’s watching you– there is something so freeing and uplifting to that. Prayer, mantras, whatever faith you are, there are prayers and there are ways to meditate in any religion.

If you’re really also feeling very down and out, reach out to someone who’s a professional and talk to them because the other piece to this is that these skin conditions are incredibly debilitating. They can be at times very painful. They are very embarrassing. They cause a tremendous amount of shame and there is a really sad increase risk of suicide associated with many of them.

I’m on these Facebook groups and people say, “I know this sounds so stupid but I don’t know where else to say this and I just need to say it. My mother in law keeps picking on me about my skin or this friend of mine made some nasty comment.” Those are not little things when you’re in the midst of suffering and the people around you go about it because they can’t relate to what someone’s going through. It really isn’t helpful.

For anyone listening to this too, if you’re like, “Oh, my sister has eczema or my husband has psoriasis.” If you’re listening to this, just understand that sometimes we just want someone to be present for us. We don’t necessarily want a solution or you to tell us how we don’t know to wash our hands or we don’t know what type of soap to use. It’s not really helpful. Oftentimes, you just want somebody to hear you and listen to you. You don’t necessarily want advice but if you’re really feeling very sad, one of the biggest pieces if you’re really feeling hopeless, go talk to somebody because there are people out there who understand. I think living with skin rashes which I did for about three years is really living in hell so I understand so acutely all the pain that people go through every day. On top of it, I work with clients now so I am privy to a lot of the things that they’re going through that I maybe didn’t.

Stress and Traumas are big pieces to this. There is actual scientific research to back that up. Understand that all the times we have to go out in public and you’ve got rashes everywhere is traumatizing. Every time people make comments or they just have that stare and they won’t stop staring at you. They are not really looking at you. They’re looking at your skin trying to figure out whether they want to be near you. It is traumatizing and stressful. We just want to feel accepted. I’m not comparing it at all to people who have those more like hidden diseases like Hashimoto where people think you are lazy because you are tired but you are not. It’s just a different type of hell that people go through. Know that no matter where you are on your journey there are people that understand you and you don’t necessarily have to go it alone. There are other things that you can do even if you feel like you’ve hit a wall and the doctor or dermatologists just shrug and don’t know what else to tell you. There are other options out there.

The big reason why I started Skinterrupt is that I felt that the way we were addressing these issues is so failed. It lacks empathy and understanding of the daily struggles that people go through. At this point, I cannot understand why it is acceptable to allow people to walk out of someone’s medical office time and time again in so much suffering and pain. That’s why I started Skinterrupt, I want to pull the curtain back and not just to help people find the alternatives that may work for them but to also say, “Hey, dermatology, we need to get with a program. This is not acceptable anymore. We need better options. You also have an obligation to tell your patients about all these other things that you’re not telling them.”  What is cool about The Healthy Skin Show is that it is the opportunity that I have. We’re connecting with researchers, doctors, nutritionists, dietitians and even people who have gone through it. You can talk about their story in an empowering and uplifting way.

I’m sharing all of that with people because I don’t know what exactly your three to five root causes may be. I want to make sure that there is no excuse anymore and the research that’s out there doesn’t ever see the light of day. All of us deserve to know that there is incredible research going on that could impact our health. There are ways to do things that can dramatically change your daily experience living with skin rashes and maybe even help rebuild skin that’s healthy but we’re just not getting it from our doctors. Don’t get me wrong, we need them and I wish I would love to bring them into the fold. I’m collaborating with doctors right now who are working in a more integrative way and want to see this get out there. We as patients, we also need to demand better. What I’m just hoping is to not see another person suffer– that’s my goal.  If I can just help one person I’d be happy today and I’ll be happy tomorrow.  That’s why I’m doing this is because we deserve better.


[01:10:25] Ashley James: Yes, doctors have their place. Allopathic medicine has its place.  We need to stop putting them on a pedestal and treat them like they are on our team of health professionals. They are not. We hire them not the other way around. We hire them as professionals and we need to make sure we find a doctor that doesn’t have hubris, doesn’t put their ego first, isn’t upset that we do our own research and doesn’t feel challenged when we advocate for ourselves. We need to find doctors and put them on our team and we need to make sure we have a team of professionals. We don’t just have one doctor, we have a team of professionals that we work with that advice, guide and help us. We’re the experts of our own body because we’re the ones living in it. We listen to our symptoms, we may not understand what the symptoms be that’s why we go to our experts for the tests and for the information just like people can go to you and work with you to do tests or you can go to your doctor and you and in naturopath. We can have multiple health professionals on our team. Let them know all what’s going on, get all of their input and do all of the tests we want to do. I want people to be empowered to know that we should never put a doctor on a pedestal.

They are not the end-all. They get almost no training in nutrition and a lot of doctors have been brainwashed in a sense to believe that food and nutrition are not really important. Now, a lot of doctors are waking up. They are getting more education outside of the mainstream MD Education. They are going towards integrative or functional medicine which is fantastic. We can also see professionals like naturopaths who always want to be on the cutting edge of the research and studies around how we can heal the body at the root level which is exactly what you’re doing. I love the list you outlined today. I think we have 18 things now because we included parasites.  Your list keeps growing. It is important to see that it is not just cut out the gluten although that really helps. I recently had a naturopathic dermatologist in from Toronto on the show and she did say that she has never helped someone heal their skin if they stayed on gluten.


[01:13:05] Jennifer Fugo:  I agree.


[01:13:07] Ashley James: There are certain things you need to stop eating like fried food. You can’t heal the body if you’re eating fries every day because the oils are horribly damaging. Gluten is damaging. People say, “Well, I got tested and I’m not celiac. I’m not allergic to gluten.” Our body can’t digests the proteins. They’re mechanically torn through the Gut and rip apart the microbiome, increase the leaky gut and do damage to the microbial. I know you’re absolutely in agreement that there are certain foods that we need to be diligent about when healing our body, our gut, and our skin.

In case someone’s listening to this and never considered cutting out junk food. I honor everyone listening wherever they are on their journey because I was there too, so was Jen. We’ve all been there and we’re all going to be on our healing journey together. What are the top junk foods that everyone benefits from removing? What are the top healing foods that everyone within reason benefits from because of the nutrient density of those foods?


[01:14:37] Jennifer Fugo:  As far as junk foods, definitely fried, fast foods, and lots of packaged and refined. The standard diet here is pretty much not going to work. If you can get more healthy whole foods into your diet that will certainly help. It is just to crowd things out instead of being like, “Oh, my gosh. If you take everything away from me, what am I going to eat?” Super high sugar, sodas and fried foods are not great. Cured products like hot dogs and things. I’m not anti-hotdog. I eat meat but we have to look for better quality. We are looking at price over quality and then we’re over eating as a result. We’re taking in and consuming a ton of really refined junky inflammatory foods as a result.

I’m not trying to make any health claims about this. These are just foods that I find that a lot of people can be helped with as far as skin issues.  As far as something that is healthy to add in, Ground flax can be really helpful however with a caveat. If you have diarrhea, it will probably not going to work for you and might make things worse. Avoid ground flax if you have diarrhea but if you don’t, one to two tablespoons a day is great. You can add it into a protein shake or your oatmeal or whatever it is that you’re consuming.

 [01:16:25] Ashley James: Drink lots of water and get ready to poop.


[01:16:28] Jennifer Fugo:  Yes. Oats are great for the skin.  A lot has to do with the Beta-glucans that are associated with oats but just get certified gluten-free oats. Oats are contaminated with gluten as a result of the way that they are harvested and processed on machinery. It increases gut permeability which we don’t certainly want when we’re dealing with gut issues.

I love collagen. For people who do eat meat, or at least open to the idea of consuming collagen look specifically for types one and three. Those are the most beneficial for the skin as well as for your Gut. There’s some great research on that. I just want to specify that there is no such thing as a vegan or plant based version of collagen, even if you see that– that’s not collagen. They basically put together the raw ingredients like vitamin C and glycine and a bunch of other things and say hope that your body will remake collagen. I have yet to see research that those vegan collagens actually really make a big dent on the areas that we’re looking for. You can typically find beef, sometimes chicken but mostly beef and fish derived collagen products are what are on the market these days.

The other one is Ghee– believe it or not, is a really great skin food. Not to apply topically but to eat because it is pretty high in butyrate. We had talked about the butyrate being really important for your Gut and Ghee is high in butyrate. If you have a dairy allergy, that’s a completely different story. I would probably avoid Ghee if you have an allergy to dairy but if you just have sensitivity to dairy, or you’re lactose intolerant, Ghee will probably be okay because the milk proteins and the sugars are removed. I love adding Ghee to my food anywhere from one to four teaspoons of Ghee a day can be really great.

Beats are also amazing because they have a lot of vitamin C. Beats have high levels of salicylates and if you have problem processing salicylates rich foods that would be an issue. It’s not a food problem but a liver detoxification issue. If you’re finding that beats and other high salicylate foods, trigger flares then you may need to increase the amount of glycine and B6 in your diet and even some magnesium to help your liver process the salicylates which are phytochemicals naturally occurring in these foods. If you’re on methotrexate because you have psoriasis, beats may be something best to avoid because it actually can interact with the medication.

Last but not least, salmon. I love salmon. It’s a really great option because of the omega 3.  I would encourage you to get wild caught salmon as opposed to the Alantic salmon simply because wild caught is typically better and has more omega 3s than farm raised salmon. Those would be my go-to as far as superfood for skin.


[01:20:0] Ashley James: My husband I have been allergic to dairy but we cannot tolerate dairy because it is hidden in food. I am in massive pain. We don’t eat it anymore but when we did, everything was fine. It was really cool because you can get Ghee that says does not have any lactose.


[01:20:34] Jennifer Fugo:  Yeah. What’s really funny is that I recently discovered that there’s such a thing as Goat and Yak ghee– it doesn’t have to just be from cows. You can order it online and it actually tastes very good. It’s not quite the same taste as cow’s milk but it does taste like ghee. It was just different. If you’re afraid of cow’s milk, you could certainly try those versions as well.


[01:21:00] Ashley James: What about the Gaps diet? It’s meant to heal the Gut that has really high in collagen and lots of bone broth. Are you in alignment to the Gaps diet if someone wants to heal their gut?


[01:21:14] Jennifer Fugo:  I’ll be honest with you. The only problem with diets to heal the gut is if you have infections they are not going to do much. I just see such a high incidence of infections and the same goes with AIP. It’s great but if you’re not seeing results after three months, you have something else going on.

I’ve talked to Mickey and she’s like, “People keep pressing on and on, hoping that something’s going to change.” In reality, the whole time they have had gut infections and the diet is not going to fix that. We have to put some practical cut-offs here saying that maybe there’s so much I can do and try up front. If I’m really not seeing results or I’m getting worse, I actually need to reach out for health because it’s more complicated, to be honest with you and to be entirely transparent.

If you would ask me to tell you all of this stuff three years ago, even five years ago before I started my master’s program, there’s no way I could have rattled all of this stuff off. I have learned so much about biochemistry and the way the body works. I’m not saying I am the smartest person out there. There are some people out there in the world that are brilliant people and I love listening to them. You can’t expect to be an expert in every single thing. I’m not messing around with my pipes If I think I got a leak or if I think there’s a problem with my electricity in my house, I’m calling electrician and so there’s no shame in reaching out and asking for help.

Be careful if you start eliminating a lot of food from your diet and you don’t know what you’re deficient in. You’re not bringing those specific nutrients back, you just dig the hole deeper and it takes a lot longer to dig yourself back out. Sometimes if you’re just like “I don’t know what to do, I’m overwhelmed.” It’s good to ask for help and know too that there are psoriasis diet and eczema diet. I know many people who have been on them that I worked with and they’ve changed their diet. They’ve done all sorts of low salicylates, no histamine, low histamine, and gluten-free, dairy-free, egg-free, sugar-free, whatever. They’re on such little foods and they’re not getting any better. I’m not saying that food doesn’t have power but because sometimes the chronic skin issues are so complicated. You can’t just assume that food will fix them all. If it does for you that is awesome and kudos to you but it does not for everyone.


[01:23:51] Ashley James: Right and that’s why there’s 18 things that we need to look at. We have to look at all them and like you said, most people have four or five or six issues at once. Everyone is stressed. We just have to go through the list and go, “How can I support? How can we all support our liver?” I think we could all benefit from liver support. “How can we support detoxifying? How can we support the diet in a way that’s the most nutrient dense? How can we support getting the good bacteria back in alignment on our skin and in our gut and get the parasites out and heal the gaps so that we don’t have the leaky gut or the leaky skin?  It’s everything; it’s a holistic.

I have a friend and I’ve mentioned this story before on my show so listeners have listened to a bunch of episodes might have heard it. I have a best friend in Toronto, she’s in her 60s and she was born with Ichthyosis. It’s a very rare skin condition where 70 or 80% of her skin was covered in very thick scales. Chunks of skin would fall off her and bleed. It was sort of piles of what looks like sandpaper around because they would fall off of her. She’s such a wonderful woman but she was born with this and her father had it. If you look at the old textbooks on Ichthyosis, all the pictures of the condition are her father because in Canada they studied him. They took pictures of him and put them all the textbooks. They said it’s genetic, there’s nothing you can do. She’s always been into health so she eats healthy as she could. She’s been taking supplements for over 30 years, probably over 40 years. She noticed that she could kind of calm down a bit and she had to do a morning and a night routine. She would make her own topical agents and rub herself from head to toe at morning and night. If she didn’t do this then she would not be able to walk. It would be so horrible to her hands or feet and she couldn’t move her hands.

Back about eight years ago, I had met one of the naturopaths that trained me that I mentored under and he was actually in intro of the time giving a lecture. I called her up and said, “You have to go see him and suck his brain out and just absorb as much as you can. This guy’s amazing.” She raised her hand when it came to question time and said, “I have Ichthyosis.” He stopped her and said, “It’s not genetic. Don’t listen to them. Here’s what you need to do. You need to stop eating gluten.” He gave a list of about 12 foods just actually the same he tells everyone to avoid. They’re generally unhealthy which you pretty much went through the list. Then he says, “Here are the good things you can eat. You need to take very high doses of all the fat soluble vitamins.” She had her gallbladder taken out in her 20s . “We need to help your body digest fat.” He gave her the rundown.

She’d already done years and years of research on her own and health stuff. It was under control and was managed but it was still there. About five years of doing his program because it’s something that takes time, she’s been totally 100% of remission for a few years. It took about four or five years but she saw that slowly the Ichthyosis crept away and new healthy skin grew where she had never seen healthy skin grow before. Now, the only thing she has is some dry skin in some places and that’s it. She still eats incredibly healthy, takes her supplements, takes her digestive enzymes and manages her stress– she definitely seen that that’s an issue, and exercises. At Morning and night she covers herself from head to toe in the things that she created in her home.

You would look at her hands and they look like everyone else’s hands. When I first met her it was not the case. It was very similar to what you described where she’d move her hands and they crack and bleed and fall like pieces of her would fall off. To see that transformation it took about four to five years of doing the the right program.

They say that every year you’ve had the problem, you need a month to work through the issues. She had the problem for 40 years, you got to give yourself 40 months. Anyway, it was like watching Ice Melt in the springtime. When you look at it every day, it doesn’t feel like it’s melting but eventually it melts away. The message I want to leave is that when we’re giving the body everything it needs, it does definitely feel miraculous at how it heals. It takes time. We need to be patient and stick to our program. If we’re getting no results at all or if it’s worsening, we need to work with a professional like you said work with you.

To make sure we are on the right path, we need to stick to it because the body takes time. Other naturopath say that the body does triage work. If you’re Vitamin C deficient, it’s going to take the vitamin C and put it to your heart, liver, kidneys and everything else that’s more important than skin first. Sometimes, taking in nutrients, nutrient dense foods and supplements, you’re eating healthy, you’re doing everything right and you might not see results for three months because the body’s healing internally. We also have to look at how we feel and the other parts that make up our quality of life to make sure we’re going in the right direction.

I’m very inspired by the work you’re doing and I really feel that you are on you’re calling, on your path. I’m really looking forward to hearing back from the listeners how much this has made a difference for them. I know that my listeners are going to jump over and listen to you on The Healthy Skin Show. There wouldn’t want to check out your website skinterrupt.com. Everything you do is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast learntruehealth.com

Tell us about your services, about everything so that listeners who want to connect with you know how they can.


[01:31:08] Jennifer Fugo:  Absolutely. The best way to get in touch with me is to go to skinterrupt.com From there if you’re interested in learning more about me, you can either read my about page to get a sense of what I’m about and it’s more than just my skin condition. When you are interested in working with someone; you should try to get to know who they are and what their values are. If that does resonate with you either get Help page where it describes how I work wit clients. I do one on one consultation. I also have some group programs that we’re working on but we also have some really great incredible resources as well for people to check out that you can utilize them in your own home.

If you’re looking for protein shakes that are really great for soothing skin conditions, we have a really great download for that or if you’re looking for the best tests to ask your doctor for, we’ve got resources for that. Looking at supporting you in any way shape humanly possible and if anybody has any questions, I’m happy Ashley, if you want to let me know or wherever the post is, I’m happy to come back and answer questions. I have blogs that are really extrapolate upon what we’ve talked about even further, just so that people have an opportunity to really dive deeper into these topics on the Healthy Skin Show. If anybody has specific questions, they can submit those questions to the podcast and actually get them answered on the show which is really cool. It’s just part of my commitment to make sure that people in this community feel heard and that they have ways not only to help themselves in their daily life but also to get that added support should they need it.

I have a virtual practice. While I live in the US, I see clients worldwide and I work with clients over the phone or by Skype to be able to support them.


[01:33:05] Ashley James: Excellent. We’re going to make sure that once this is up, I’m going to make a post in the Facebook group The Learn True Health Facebook group and so we can all jump in there and chat with you. We just started transcribing all of our interviews at LearnTrueHealth.com so this interview is going to be fully transcribed so people can go back and see the full list of 18 things and counting of the different areas they need to focus on. Can see everything that you said today in the show notes because it’s all transcribed there and all the links to everything you do.

Listeners can come to the Facebook group and chat with Jennifer. Check out the first episode where we had Jennifer on which is Episode 198. I know on your website skinterrupt.com you also have a fun quiz that people can take?


[01:34:04] Jennifer Fugo:  Yes. Actually, it’s not a quiz, there are a couple of things you can do. As I was saying, you can find out what are triggers for your skin rashes and that you can do through testing. I’m a really big proponent of doing a low stomach acid test at home because as I said, having enough stomach acid is the second point of the digestive process and it’s critical. I find that a lot of my skin clients actually have low stomach acid. We’ve got a great download to walk you through how to do that. It doesn’t cost anything except for some water and some baking soda. It can really give you a lot of fast information in about 10 or 15 minutes. We’ve got a lot of great resources over on the website that will help you dive deeper.


[01:34:55] Ashley James: Very cool. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Is there anything you would like to say to wrap up today’s interview?


[01:35:03] Jennifer Fugo:  I would just like to say that wherever you are right now and whatever you choose to do is entirely up to you. It’s okay if you choose to stay and do the conventional route of addressing your skin. It’s also okay if you choose to start integrating in some more natural or alternative options. Whatever you choose to do, don’t let anybody make you feel bad about it. It’s ultimately your choice. It’s based upon your health values. The goal is always to figure out a way to help your body rebuild healthier skin by rebalancing yourself from the inside and the outside. I hope that this is a really great jumping off point for some people and just know that it is possible to support your skin better. There are more resources out there and I hope that I can be a co-pilot with you on that journey and I just appreciate you for tuning in and also being a part of Ashley’s tribe because I know how passionate you all are about living your best lives. I’m appreciative for the invitation to be here.


[01:36:09] Ashley James: Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition? How we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity? Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier?

Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business, support people in their success? Do you love helping people? You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach. I highly recommend checking out the Institute for integrative nutrition. I just spent the last year in their Health Coaching Certification Program. It really blew me away. It was so amazing. I learned over 100 dietary theories. I learned all about nutrition but from a standpoint of how we can help people to shift their life and shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health. I definitely recommend you check them out. You can Google Institute for Integrative Nutrition or IIN and give them a call or you can go to LearnTrueHealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training to check it out and see if it is something that you would be interested in. Be sure to mention my name Ashley James and the Learn True Health podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible. I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program and I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information. We need more health coaches. In fact, Health Coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field. So many health coaches are getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic offices, doctor’s offices, you can work in hospitals, and you can work online through Skype and help people around the world. You can become an author, you can go into the school system and help your local schools shift their programs to help children be healthier. You can go into senior centers and and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success in their health goals. There are so many different available options for you when you become a Certified Health Coach. Check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, mention my name, get the best deal, give them a call and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you.

Classes are starting soon. The next round of classes is starting at the end of the month. So, you’re going to want to call them now and check it out. And if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.

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Eric Thorton And Ashley James



  • Cultures and cultural thought forms that causes stress.
  • The soul’s timeline and its relevance to your current life.
  • Guides and angels.
  • Happiness and joy, guilt, victimhood, and free will,
  • Listening to your body’s “whispers.”



Welcome to the Learn True Health Podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James James. This is Episode 359.


0:00:14.1 Ashley James: Well here we are again with Eric Thorton. We’re here live in his healing studio. Welcome back to the show.


0:00:21.6 Eric Thorton: Well thank you. It’s great to be here.


0:00:23.2 Ashley James: Yeah, we’ve had quite a lot of listeners giving me feedback on our last (few) interviews, all good information. They all love you. I haven’t gotten one complaint, so we’re having you back.


0:00:38.7 Eric Thorton: That’s great. What can I say?


0:00:43.0 Ashley James: And even several listeners have hired you and worked with you.


0:00:48.1 Eric Thorton: That’s correct. I think about 10, 15 now. Quite a few from all over the world. I’m working with someone in Singapore, someone from China, a lot from Canada, and from Eastern United States. So that’s pretty good.


0:01:13.8 Ashley James: That’s really neat. So for the listeners who haven’t listened to our past episodes, I definitely encourage them to go back and listen to our past interviews because they were enlightening, but I’ve gotten a lot of great feedback. A few listeners told me that listening to our interviews was life – changing for them. It helped them to understand parts of their lives and who they are in a whole new way and it really gave them clarity. So thank you.


0:01:42.8 Eric Thorton: That’s terrific. That’s why I’m here. I don’t do my work for any other reason except to help people and that’s why I love to share. I don’t try to keep exclusives on any of the processes we do and I look at everything, when we teach people something, we look at it as universal wisdom and we hold up their ability to look at themselves from their guide’s point of view. And so, any of the processes we talk about are (to) design(ed )to get people to think and incorporate the other things they’ve learned as well and it’s very inclusive to work. So it really seems to their past experiences been to people are very easily incorporated in to their lives and that’s one of our intents, is to take away the mystery of spiritual work and make it something we do everyday all over the world. (I) instead of just from information from the Middle East or India or something like that. God works the same day all over the world.


0:02:55.7 Ashley James: Instead of just doing it on Sunday.


0:02:57.8 Eric Thorton: Instead of just doing it on Sunday or with special words. Special words that are hard for people to understand take away the knowledge they need which makes it very difficult to become enlightened. It’s almost like you’re chasing someone else’s tail and they’re like, “Oh well you can’t quite know what this means.” And so, because really from my clients, and this is quite a broad statement I’m gonna make. They meditate, they do all these procedures and they really can’t own it because they’re told things that they don’t understand. And so, I’m giving information in sessions from people’s guides that explain what’s going on in their lives, how they’re sitting in their lives. How to stop comparing culture, what we were just talking about; cultures, thought forms, the cultural thought forms that keep us locked in patterns that don’t fit most over souls and so it causes stress in their lives. So we were talking earlier about happiness, intent versus enlightenment. And that’s a big deal on how the information, if the information is convoluted, how are you going to find that? How are you gonna understand who you are?

So with every person that comes in for a session, we’re always unveiling who they are so they can start to realize the difficulty they have is because of the culture that’s built around younger souls versus the culture that older souls have to be in. They don’t have a choice and it causes people to feel inadequate. It causes the older souls to feel inadequate and to be stressed. So our job, most of the people I see are older souls, in what we call the lives of discovery and they are very confused and stressed by what they’re supposed to be doing by the cultures versus what they need to be doing for them to uncover their happiness and joy.


0:05:23.1 Ashley James: You said lives of discovery. What does that mean?


0:05:26.5 Eric Thorton: The human existence is a series of lives. Life, death, reincarnation, becoming godlike. Well, bear with me with this demonstration. We’ll kind of explain that to you. If you take a timeline of the human soul on the planet earth, we call each life a form that we come in to a karmic cycle. Meaning that we’re here to learn and to grow in what it’s like to be in that body type and what it offers for the growth of the soul. So we start out maybe you take a timeline on the far left. You have what we call a new soul coming in to a physical body for the first time, so the soul doesn’t have physical experience yet and it comes in to a human body. Those people tend to be very radical and when you imprint some way of anything, whether it’s science, whether it’s religion, culture. You imprint it. The first imprint, they’re gonna defend that imprint until the day they die and they’re gonna be very radical about it. Those are quite young souls and they’ll live life after life after life with that gaining wisdom from those separate points of view. And then as you have more and more time, you gain more and more wisdom time embodies.

And about the middle point of this timeline, we call it the point of mastery. Everyone to the left, we call younger souls and that’s our main cultures. There are many cultures within that, religious, political, et cetera. And they come from people that are intelligent. They have emotions the same as (everybody else) [inaudible] does and they create all these cultures and then you hit this point of mastery and you’re there. You’re wise, you’re good, you’ve learned a lot but you still follow this cultures. So you have presidents, world leaders over there. They follow within these cultures. You have someone that people who might be familiar with is Mark, Margaret Thatcher, or George Patton, or Winston Churchill, or the leader of Brazil years ago – a very old soul but not quite an old soul yet. They still would be politically in the limelight and such. So they’re (still) supporting the old cultures.

You make this leap past the point of mastery, you’re leaping in to what we call the lives of discovery. These lives, if this change happens usually in the life between lives and sometimes it happens during a life and it’s earth-shaking. Because what happens is you understand all these cultures innately inside but, you can no longer quite do it. So to be the mean girl or the bully doesn’t work anymore, to go along with these clips (cliques) in school or in business cultures and things like that. It doesn’t quite work and you see the problem with it and how limiting these cultures are. In these lives you understand it but you don’t’ want to participate in these cultures, but you do because you wanna run with the rest of the kids or the rest of the adults and you feel guilty for it or bored or frustrated. So it’s like, “Come on guys, understand this.” So they’re going because you’re this old soul that is in the lives of discovery, they’re looking at you like, “What’s wrong with you?”, “Why don’t you do the 9 to 5 job?”, “Why don’t you do the 2.5 kids in minivan?”, “Why don’t you fall in to your position?”. Well after that point of mastery, you can’t anymore. It just doesn’t work and we continue living life after life gaining knowledge from that perspective now through discovery. And we are supposed to be discovering during these lives. We discover gifts during those lives – partial gifts, we never have them fully. We discussed that a little bit before, but the person will literally have sight or have a second knowing, really super vivid intuition or second sight but, it won’t be a full on. The use of acupuncture, reiki, all kinds of it because they conceal energy and experience it but the full picture is not there yet.

So you’ll live these lives. You can be a doctor and a nurse. They’re good people with good intent. We can even have some lawyers with it. They’re intelligent. They don’t quite fit in that factory worker thing. They’re not gonna do the same thing throughout life but, our cultures say do different.


0:10:57.8 Ashley James: So you’re saying they’re not gonna do the same things. What you mean is like, they don’t wanna work at one job for 40 years and then retire. Which is sort of what society says is good to do and or maybe the parents are saying, “Why don’t you just get a stable job and work there until you retire?” And there’s an expectation, a cultural expectation to do this and yet those who are in the lives of discovery will go from job to job or career to career or school to school and they can’t do anything for more than 3 or 5 or 7 years before feeling like they need to do something more, something different.


0:11:37.8 Eric Thorton: Exactly.


0:11:38.7 Ashley James: And sometimes they feel lost or they feel like they’re broken or there’s something wrong with them.


0:11:43.8 Eric Thorton: They feel there’s no life purpose because their life purpose comes from the main cultures and they don’t fit that life purpose. So they come to a guy like me or they seek other people. What’s my purpose in life? I’m not meant to dig ditches or I’m not meant to stand in the factory or to sell real estate probably it’s not fulfilling. For someone in these younger cultures, “Yeah, that’s great. I’ve arrived. I’m earning a million dollars a year. I’ve arrived.” Whereas someone that’s an old soul can earn a million dollars a year doesn’t mean anything to them because they haven’t found their purpose because their soul’s personality hasn’t come out yet, hasn’t been fully discovered. So they innately feel dissatisfied with the cultures they’d be.


0:12:34.8 Ashley James: So how do they then uncover their purpose and discover who they are?


0:12:39.4 Eric Thorton: The first step is to discover that their barking up the wrong tree. If they try to be in these cultures and get everything from these cultures, they’re not going to be happy. So that’s the first thing they have to look at like we did with you because well, you don’t fit.


0:13:04.0 Ashley James: We can’t see Eric. He’s pointing at my husband. My husband is now quietly waving at the microphone. You guys, they can’t see you.


0:13:13.8 Eric Thorton: Sorry.


0:13:15.3 Duffy James: I’m here.


0:13:19.1 Eric Thorton: Sometimes we just hold this up that they’re trying to put a square peg in a round hole and that’s the first step and it has to absorb, We remove the energy or the thought forms and predatory energies that have to do with trying to put a square peg in a round hole. have the frustration, the anger, the situation from mom and dad trying to get this kid to fit in and around a certain pathway and that all adds up in a person’s crown and it can eventually take on predatory energy like we explained. The more you get, the more likely you’re gonna draw too. You’re like a magnet. Well it happens. We remove that, we bring this up to the person and we’d look at it and we go, “Okay so, you’re a square peg in a round hole. So why don’t we hang around with square pegs instead of trying to identify with the round pegs?” So by doing this, you sit here and you start to look at it and we start giving you the individual reasons that are there. Like with you, we looked at some past life. By the way we do have permission from Duffy James to talk about him even if it’s in the third person. Sorry.

So we have to look at this and we have to go, “Okay why did you come to the parents you came to?” “What is it you’re supposed to be learning?” Oftentimes old souls come into parents that are younger souls but it’s not by happenstance. We choose to make this happen. So we’re gonna have a certain set of genetics at a certain time period being male, female, whatever it is so that we can learn from this set of genetics and this set of traumas that happen. When you’re raised by younger souls, they older soul is traumatized because they can’t be recognized. They can’t be heard. They can’t be embraced for who they are. Instead with younger souled parents, they try to fit this old soul into these virtues and choose that they can’t fit into and that equals stress. And apparently they parents sit there and scratch their head and they don’t know why this kid won’t do it. So that equals frustration and the kids try to compensate for it and they feel guilty, they pull it in they blame themselves. They feel guilty.

And this is one of the main things with people on the lives of discovery is removing this guilt from this child that’s still there so that in the current life, similar situations come up and they’re maybe being heard. But because a certain feeling or thought came up, they feel completely unheard by their spouse and it doesn’t have anything to do with your spouse. It has something to do with their past lives and the reason they came to the parents they did. So sometimes we’re answering the other side of the learning curve of karma. We look at karma like we explain that it’s a wonderful thing. It’s learning.

With some people we have a past life where we caused similar situations that they were raised in. So now they learned from it and so now it will come into that themselves and see if they can rise above it. So, what was your past life? What was that?


0:16:46.0 Duffy James: An industrial chemical worker.


0:16:49.1 Eric Thorton: Oh, that’s right. So unbeknownst to you, you were an industrial, was it a supervisor type thing? Something up in it and that you were in-charge of how things were produced like gears and motors and things like that which had a lot of chemicals in it and a lot of people got sick but nobody knew. So there’s no harm, no foul, it didn’t create karma but it did create a situation in your body. Now, was your grandparents something like that too?


0:17:29.8 Duffy James: My grandfather was a chemist.


0:17:32.1 Eric Thorton: Yeah, your grandfather was a chemist too which brought in a chemical predisposition to your body. And so between the two of these, your body doesn’t get rid of toxicity very well. So when we worked with you we worked from the backside releasing the reason you hold toxicity and heavy metals and things like that so that your body could start dumping them slowly. And we told you you would feel kind of odd for about 10 days to 2 weeks while your body dumps a lot of this stuff. I am sure enough today you’re telling me you don’t feel very well and you haven’t felt very well and it’s because you’re dumping toxins now because you release the reason your body wouldn’t let go of them.

Like we told you, you’re vegetarian and I said eat greens because chlorophyll pulls out toxins that are in your blood. It doesn’t pull it out of your tendons, that does pull it from your blood. The minerals in veggies and fruits help also pull out the other toxins. So it’s a great time to have a really clean life and of course, I don’t think we mentioned, but drinking plenty of water works too.


0:18:53.3 Ashley James: My husband gave me a knowing look because every 5 minutes I’m like,” Are you drinking your water?” So Duffy James had a session 2 days ago and he comes home and he’s like, “Eric warned me I’m gonna feel a little tired as my body’s healing.” And true enough Duffy James’s been totally wiped out more than any other healing more than acupuncture or massage or anything. He’s been pretty wiped out.


0:19:21.6 Duffy James: I have been, yeah.


0:19:24.8 Eric Thorton: You know I tell people when they have these effects, you know you expect to come away from a healing and feeling good, some people do. It’s actually a good side. You’re feeling bad, if they’re working on your toxicity. In the main cultures of the society, they want a cause and effect immediately and they want to control these things and you can’t get the body to release toxins that it’s emotionally hooked to. Nothing’s gonna release if you’re emotionally hooked to it. it simply will not happen. We mentioned it before, I have a client that’s grandfather had a heavy metal poisoning. her body wasn’t gonna release it because of grandpa’s love. Well, you had it from past life and we have to teach the body, “Okay we can do this.” Then it starts to happen and then other people works better.

So if you’re going to a Naturopath, the medicines from the Naturopath would work better because [inaudible] make you more toxic. Or from an allopathic, it would work better. If you’re detoxed at a great level, then the medicines gonna work right. Western medicine will even work better because you have a clearer past life. Or you mix some Western medicine or any chemicals with a bunch other chemicals, you’re gonna have a disastrous outcome. Or if you clean them up, you will have a good outcome. So that’s why we say the work isn’t inclusive because it makes everybody’s work work better. It makes your brain clearer so you can actually have a conversation. It’s a big deal.

So anyway in this process, I  literally set up the session. We talk for an hour to 2 hours and we talk during the session. This is very important for people to understand and you’ve experienced it now. We talk about it because it lights up the neural pathways in your brain much like brain surgery. The brain surgeon put you under, draw the holes in your head or however they’re gonna get in there, put you in the halo and then they will wake you up and they talk you through the surgery. So it lights up different neural pathways so they can see not to cut those and it’s the same way here. We’re not cutting anything of course but we talk about things and some people think, “Well we talk too much.” Well no, this is a different type of healing. It lights up the neural pathways specifically because we have millions of them and the guides go, “Okay there it is. Let’s give that better neural plasticity.”

In your session Duffy, the neural pathways were influenced by the past life and this life and so those get lit up so that they can change, give it better neural plasticity and then the process of changing the body starts with you in your case. And the brain goes, “Oh, ok can do this instead of this old pattern.” But if you don’t soften those up, that’s not gonna happen. They just keep going back to the default setting subconsciously and consciously. So that’s why we do a lot of talking during the process – to light those up, to get them to better neural plasticity, get them open to change. With you, we didn’t give you specific exercises to do, as of yet. But some people depending of who they are or what the situation is, we will give them specific things to do. Specific books to read, sometimes very specific diet for short periods of time or long periods of time. We talked about allergens, we also gave you specific to your guides – they will literally give me a spiritual exercise for that person to do and oftentimes it’s different from everybody else. There are some certain things we can all do like we’ve talked about the energy exchange but other than that, it’s more of an individual thing.


0:23:51.6 Ashley James: So you’re talking to your client’s guides. What’s the difference between guides and angels?


0:23:57.9 Eric Thorton: Angels are what we call non-evolutionary souls. They are angels. They are never going to embody. They are spiritual beings given a specific job with quite broad spectrum but still very specific. We are evolutionary souls. So we start our with very little knowledge, gaining knowledge with life after life after life after life and gaining new wisdom. Angels, they have specific jobs for eternity and they’re perfectly happy with that. They’re designed to do that. They learn within their job boundaries and if they need to go beyond their boundaries, they call another angel with the next set of knowledge. Where evolutionary souls go, “Oh, well let’s look at that” and gain the knowledge themselves. So it’s a very different perspective as well.

So we gain knowledge life after life after life and we’ll continue on this timeline we were talking about. So at the end of the lives of discovery we are born with the gifts on – that’s a master. Then there’s levels of mastery to where we become the ascending master. The ascending masters are amazing, they are good at everything. I’m not there yet. I was born with the gifts on, but I can see through a wall for example, but I can float through a wall. I still have a little fear about hard objects appearing in the middle of my body. So they’ve entered a point where they’re now proving all the things the things they’ve learned in all of their past lives. Clear back to when they first came in to the planet and if they came from another planet. Well anyway it’s called star traveler and you can draw in anyone of them as you’re used to work on.

So people who are amazing seekers, when I work on them – they’ll see a part of me shape shift into those past lives. So I will look like a slightly different person because I enter this meditative state when I work on anybody and they look at me like, “Who are you now?” and then “Okay, I’m from this past life.” Because I’m able to tap in to each past life at this point and some of them can even describe me and they’re accurate and I’m always not real tall. Come one I’m working on that. [Laughter] Come on 5 more inches please. [Laughter] But anyway, I’ve been on the planet for a long time and people didn’t used to be real tall and it seems to be locked in. I’m still the average height of a person 150 years ago. 5’6″ right?

I use a lot of humor. [Laughter]

Anyway, so we have these past lives to grow and learn and become this master and then we have the levels of mastery. As we become the ascending master, when we pass, we become a guide if we want to or we move on to another part of the universe. Buddhism calls that Nirvana. You’re not ceasing to exist, you’re ceasing to exist here on this place, you’ll go to another one and you’ll more. You don’t start as a newbie or as young soul anymore. You’re starting off as an old soul in any life form because universal wisdom applies everywhere.


0:28:00.2 Ashley James: So a guide is someone who has been through the whole cycle and now chooses to be a guide rather come into a physical body?


0:28:09.0 Eric Thorton: Correct.


0:28:09.8 Ashley James: Can a guide choose to have an incarnation in physical body or they are done with the physicality?


0:28:14.6 Eric Thorton: They can choose to do it again but they generally wants your guide, it’s a lot of time that passes by because you’re a guide with the same soul, it’s not the body. So you may be with someone in various bodies for 10 or 15 lives while they’re learning your specific expertise as the guide.


0:28:37.6 Ashley James: That sounds like fun.


0:28:37.9 Eric Thorton: It is and remember time only means something to the body. It doesn’t mean anything to the soul. So if you spend a thousand years with someone, it doesn’t mean anything. And so guides know us really, really well. Way better than we’ll ever know ourselves and it’s fascinating. They have wicked senses of humor too – not work it as in evil, but work it as in funny because they’ve been there and they have done that and they’ve been all the different choices we have with our bodies and preferences and things like that. They get it and they don’t care.


0:29:18.6 Ashley James: So you can hear guides and angels talk to you? How do you know the difference between the two?


0:29:25.0 Eric Thorton: Angels are very distinctive because they don’t have the same frequency because they’ve never been embodied. So it’s really easy for me to tell the difference. It’s kind of like meeting someone who is [inaudible] versus someone who’s Robin Williams. Not all guides are Robin Williams of course but it’s like, they’ll have that presence about them that just fits with you because they’ve done it. Where angels, they literally don’t give off that frequency at all. They have senses of humor, but they just aren’t that been there done that sense of humor. So it’s a very different frequency.

Now we all have what has been termed in some groups The Guardian Angel because their job is mainly to keep us alive. Where guides job is to help us with the stress of being an old soul. So I was explaining it to Duffy and I finally got to explain it. We’ve talked about the size of the radar dishes and the old souls have these giant radar dishes that taken a hundred thousand gigabytes of information for everyone than a younger soul takes it and it overwhelms the older soul, but those are the lessons.


0:30:51.7 Ashley James: You talked about how some people who are you calling sensitives or those who are older souls can become exhausted from doing things like going to a mall or going grocery shopping because they’re taking in all the energies from other people.


0:31:04.9 Eric Thorton: They are perceiving it and where someone else has no perception of it. So they get exhausted and they need to learn and be guided to people that can hopefully help them learn about this radar dish or these perspectives that have might the m very sensitive. They’re sensitive in the amount of knowledge coming in, but the stress of this massive knowledge has made their bodies very sensitive.


0:31:31.3 Ashley James: You say you work with a lot of healers. You like to heal healers. Help healers heal themselves so they can go on to be better healers for other people. Are all healers older souls that are more sensitive with the bigger radar dish because older souls are drawn to becoming healers or they have some of their gifts on or can younger souls also be healers?


0:31:58.3 Eric Thorton: Younger souls can be healers in a mechanical way. They can’t be healers in an intuitive way. Old souls have that ability to feel energy and that sensitivity that is supposed to happen that physiologically changes as we get damaged as the change that takes place. We have the classic wounded healer. So if you’re an old soul and you have this giant radar dish, it’s too much information for the body. The body is made to take the small radar dish. We have the exact same body says younger souls in other words. But we got this huge perception problem and that we take in so much information. We become very, very, very physically and mentally stressed and it wounds us and it starts at birth or even before birth. And it starts wounding and when we get wounded slowly or suddenly, we go into what’s called a hyper alert position and the amygdala, which is a gland above your both ears which joins at the frontal lobe, starts to work extremely fast. It already works extremely ast, it’s the gland that’s connected to the digestive brain, and you can look that up. The digestive brain uses the sense of touch only. The main brain uses the sense of touch, taste, sound – the 6 senses. The digestive brain is only touch. So if someone’s staring at you with malintent, you need to know. Essentially the amygdala was formed and the digestive was  formed for safety.

I was listening to Oprah at one time and what she said was the research on it, so I’m just quoting her, “That the amygdala can tell friend or foe in 30 millionth of a second.” When you get wounded and you go on hyper alert, that particular aspect can speed up to a hundred millionth of a second. And it is in that if you think of millionths of a second, it’s pure frequency. So if you can pick up frequency of friend or foe between 1 second and a 30 millionth of  a second and you have that turned on, now to pick it up to a hundred millionths of second? That’s where the gifts are – between 30 millionth to a hundred millionths of a second and even beyond that. That’s where you start picking up the frequency of sound that’s not in our physical word or in the 3D. You’re gonna pick up guides, you’re gonna pick up guardinals, you’re gonna see things moving around you. We all do, but you’re gonna see them more and you’re gonna start seeing figures or something to help somebody with, may be an argument with a parent or something when they were young when you’re working on their leg.

That information is there, but if your radar dish is picking it up at 30 millionths of a second, you won’t be able to see it as a therapist. But an old soul therapist, then you’re gonna pick that up and you’re gonna go to a totally different type of session. So again, we’re talking about stress and cultures.

So then you got someone we’ll say as a massage therapist and they’re working with someone that is a younger soul. What are they gonna do for that massage? Versus someone who’s an older soul that’s a massage therapist? What can be the difference in their techniques? The one from the old soul is gonna be much deeper because they can perceive what’s going on and move to the places without even being told.


0:35:55.2 Ashley James: So we have this amazing chiropractor and we totally love him and just as a side note and I got to tell about this mattress. But since we got our new bed 35 days ago, we actually haven’t needed to go back to our chiropractor.


0:36:12.0 Duffy James: Great bed.


0:36:13.2 Ashley James: I know. It’s so amazing. We used to go almost weekly. Sometimes twice a week because I’d wake up with injuries and I’m not that old. Why am I waking up with a neck injury, right, or a lower back? And he thinks like a mechanic. I mean he doesn’t follow intuition but he’s amazing and we love him. I mean if we could adopt him, we wanna keep him, we love him. He’s semi-retired right now so we’re a little bit sad about that. He’s gonna go into retirement soon, but he brought in a chiropractor to by his clinic and she is wonderful but doesn’t do his same techniques and we kept asking why isn’t she learning from you? You’re almost 40 years in the business, what’s goin on? He goes, “You know she has this intuition.” And I keep asking her, “Why did you adjust that? Why did you do this?” And she goes, “I just know to go there.” And he goes, “I don’t understand her process. She just have this intuition, I don’t have that.” And he respects it which is great, then he’s like going to a mechanic. He looks at your body and he goes, “Okay this muscle group is causing this but it’s coming from here and it’s this never bundle and this is why I’m gonna adjust this.” And he can explain everything and you might come in with neck pain and he’ll adjust your ankle and everything will come back into alignment because he thinks like a mechanic. So it’s that possibly, he’s a younger soul thinking more like a mechanic. It’s a great adjustment. The other chiropractor who’s taking over the clinic, pure intuition. She comes up and she just feels and knows where to adjust and she can explain why.


0:37:54.9 Eric Thorton: Well they might be old souls. One of them is taking the mechanics that all chiropractors learn and they learn themselves the order of it. Where in the chiropractic it’s just you learn this move one day, this move another day, and this move another day. You learn that someone’s need might affect their shoulder, but how do you assemble that as an individual and your practice? I’ll be honest, the guy who’s mechanical with it I can say is probably an older soul. He’s learned the technique. He’s taken this information and made his own technique with it and would tell that he works on people differently, individually.


0:38:37.6 Ashley James: He’s pretty amazing. I think you’re right.


0:38:40.2 Eric Thorton: He’s looking at series of sequences that he’s learned or intuited and he can plug that into this person, this person, and this person. Where the other one is more of an emotional thinker. So then she’s taking her own soul status and using it to really feel the manusia in the body and different parts of it that are connecting these mechanical sequences because she’s also moving the body mechanically. So it’s just 2 different approaches to this massive knowledge that they’re getting. So I wouldn’t say either one of them is a young soul, unless I met them, then I could tell you. The young soul can do that but they’re not gonna have the magic from it.


0:39:20.3 Ashley James: So I was a massage therapist in Canada and I was taking a course on craniosacral therapy and I had almost no experience with craniosacral other than I was told it was really cool to add to my tool belt.


0:39:37.6 Eric Thorton: And you have one of each.


0:39:40.2 Ashley James: I have a cranium and sacrum. Yes, yes.


0:39:43.9 Eric Thorton: So you have  experience with it.


0:39:44.4 Ashley James: I do. I physically have those. I was in the course and working on a woman doing that basically. They taught the technique. My hands are on her and I’m doing the technique and I’m seeing and it really shocked me. I thought craniosacral was just manipulation of the body. I had no idea that there was a spiritual component to it. Lo and behold.


0:40:13.3 Eric Thorton: Yeah. Everything you have to do with humans has a spiritual component to it.


0:40:16.6 Ashley James: Yes right. We’re learners now. And so I’m working on her and I can see trauma and abuse and what the abuse was and where it was still being held in her body. Sort of like I could see like in the CSI TV show how they put a blue light over someone and they can see old scars or old bruises. I could see them and I could see sort of which ones she’s worked on healing wise and so I felt compelled to talk to her about it but I also felt really weird like, “Hey by the way while I was working on you, I saw that you were molested.” And you know it’s sort of a weird conversation. So I brought it up with her and I said what I saw these 2 areas. One that you’ve worked on this area and described another area that was still very raw emotionally, because she was very experienced with craniosacral, so I guess she knew that this is something that happens. And she goes, “Oh yeah, you’re right. 30 years ago… such and such happened and I’ve worked on it and you’re right those are old wounds but I’ve done on healing.” It’s sort of like the scar tissues are left behind but I’ve done the work and she acknowledged that what I saw – the new wounds that hadn’t healed yet were emotional wounds that are still being held I think around the diaphragm area. That to me was amazing, when you can touch someone and actually get visions and see what’s going on in their body on an emotional level – the emotions are being held in injuries in the body.


0:41:56.3 Eric Thorton: Right. That’s why we heal healers. You have that ability and yet that was one of the first times you used it maybe. I don’t know.


0:42:06.6 Ashley James: Yeah.


0:42:07.0 Eric Thorton: And so, if you took that person with these traumas held in her body and you released it and she’s done with it, it’s out of her body. It’s done. If the practitioner releases it and they’re still learning to do it, it doesn’t go away. It will release it, the muscles will relax, you get some benefit from it and 2 weeks later it’s right back. That’s telling us there is a spiritual component to itself. So if that person that you’ve discovered that with still had the predatory energy from her attackers or molesters, if she still had the [inaudible 0:42:44.5], if she still had all these things going there, you would go to release the muscles then because you saw why they were tight but she maybe hasn’t finished learning from it yet. So then a guy like me would take that and we would go through and see who, what, where, and why?

What you’re supposed to be learning from coming to parents or people like this or having been involved in your life in some way and then we take that and we learn from it. We don’t look at anything as positive or negative even that. What are we supposed to be learning from it? Yeah, do I think it’s tragic? Oh heaven, yes. It’s one of the worst things that can happen to a human is being molested when you’re young because it changes your emotional status for the rest of your life. But that being said, if you turn it into a learning process, you can heal from it and we cannot just be a survivor, but become the person you’re supposed to become because of it and then you are healed, and then you will find your pathway. Then you will find your meaning in life.

In the meantime on a major thing like that, you won’t find it. It can stare you in the face and you’ll think it’s trauma. We call those cross wires. And someone associates love with being abused, manipulated, et cetera then out in the world, they’re gonna look at jobs, they’re gonna look at people for love equals abuse, manipulation, et cetera and so they’re never gonna find what they’re supposed to be doing. They can’t ever see it until this work is done. And then they’ll be out there doing something, it’s like a new sense of smell like, “Oh that looks good.” And they start to find their purpose or they start to discover they’re actually doing their purpose but they could never settle into it because of these contrasts of what love or friendship or work means that has to do with people that they can’t aligned with – the younger soul parents.


0:44:46.6 Ashley James: I like that you’ve mentioned in the past that, people who come too often have had health issues that they’ve seen everyone for and that it’s only when they do the spiritual and emotional work with you that it’s finally – it’s just that last sort of pin that needed to be pulled out.


0:45:06.9 Eric Thorton: To make everything work. To make all their efforts work. It’s so important to include everything people have done prior to seeing me. That is so absolutely important and it’s mechanically important as well as spiritually and physically. You can even literally have mechanical work done on you 5 years before you see me and it won’t take effect until the day we do the work. And then also they’ll go home and they’ll roll over and their whole back will realign, where it wouldn’t it. You’ve mentioned the chiropractors. They’d do it, they keep going in and going in and it won’t hold and they’ve done all of this work. I’m usually, unfortunately the last resort. [Laughter] It’s too bad, because when you’re the first resort you get things done a lot faster. You don’t have to suffer as long, but we’re stubborn. We don’t wanna go into something that’s the unknown or the mystery.


0:46:04.2 Ashley James: A question that come to mind that I wanted to ask you. This might be too generalized because I know each individual has their own reasoning. Tell us about autoimmune disease. Is there a common thread as to the cause and the common way to heal it or is it really individualistic?


0:46:27.1 Eric Thorton: It’s very individual. It’s very, very individual. Because like, we’re talking about Duffy here. His immune system are coming from past lives that he’s had and also his grandparents and what they did as individuals, those people did. That doesn’t apply to other people with autoimmune systems today. So I don’t have any precognition as far as, it’s not the right word, but I go into the session innocently. Because we have a certain amount of symptoms. I think we have 280 something symptoms and we have 10,000 or 15,000 different diseases and abnormalities and things like that the human body can have, but only 280 symptoms. So if you go in there thinking that these symptoms specifically means this, you have missed the boat. So I go at it very innocently so it always gives me the perspective from the guides that the person needs right now.

So with someone like you Duffy, this was a huge anchor for some of your issues. So we released the anchor. You still have the issues, but the body’s got to get used to not having that anchor, then we can start on the specifics. I tell people first sessions are very different than ongoing sessions because first sessions we gotta release the main bulk that you’re carrying around. The body got to learn to that we’re not gonna hurt it subconsciously and consciously and then it will let us in toward a much deeper level to where we get specifically you versus the effects of other people on you.  What’s actually happened to you specifically? Those come in generally, sometimes a little bit in the first session, but more in the ongoing sessions. And sometimes people just need 1 or 2 sessions or 3. Some people want ongoing. They want to really get their lives cleaned up but it’s like, “Okay so we dig in” and each time I might have to see people for years because this is what they’ve worked with. And they’re always get in to the next huge level and their bodies changed dramatically after each session. Very, very dramatically. They become completely different personalities because they’re becoming their soul’s personality instead of the injured personality. And that’s where things come up like enlightenment.


0:49:22.0 Duffy James: Didn’t you notice that my voice lowered, almost right away?


0:49:25.0 Ashley James: Yeah. That was something I wanted to say. So I wasn’t allowed to be in the room when Duffy James was getting his session. I was all ready to come sit in the corner and be a fly on the wall. When I picked him up after his session, he comes out and I noticed that his voice had dropped I don’t know how many octaves. I don’t know what an octave sounds like but his voice dropped noticeably. Not fake, it wasn’t forced but it was his real voice. I know when he’s in his in a state of stress, his voice becomes higher, I mean within the male range of voice but his voice becomes sort of stressed and higher pitched and I hadn’t heard that relaxed, deep voice for a long time. So I just noticed that that was a shift. I mean his energy shifted but his voice physically shifted.


0:50:18.8 Eric Thorton: Which shows the release of stress. Subconscious stress. When the body can acknowledge this, that’s when it knows we’re not gonna hurt it and then we start going in there. And we start getting these very specific cross wires. Most people want you to bring it up. They can go, “Oh yeah.” And they can look at it then and they can change it. So like if love equals being highly critical, for example. Love is cross wire with all kinds of things, it’s not always love but that’s a real common one. And so if love equals highly critical, then you’re on hyper alert to be critical because you love everybody and so you’re stressed. And if you can release that, but love equals because you breathe which is what we ultimately want, your stress levels drop down. But that’s a lot distance between love equals being critical and love equals because your present – I love your presence when you’re breathing. I have no judgement. Those are a long, long distance away and we have to go in and get the specific cross wires that come up with love equals being critical. And then all of a sudden their voice changes, their being changes, their tones change and they may be very intelligent but they’ve realized that, “Oh, just because I know something doesn’t mean I need to say it.” And so the critical part goes away. [Laughter]

You’ve recognized that one? You’re giggling. [Laughter]


0:51:57.3 Ashley James: Yeah, certain relatives of mine matched that. Can you remember that quote and we can read it back to certain relatives that shall not be named? [Laughter]


0:52:09.3 Eric Thorton: It’s better that way. [Laughter] But you know, when you can change that, then people’s perception of you completely changes too and you’ve changed complete frequencies. And so you don’t even wanna hang out sometimes with some of the people that were hanging with you because of the negative interaction. You changed to a more positive outcome, a more positive being, a more enlightened point of view and all of a sudden these people don’t wanna be around you anymore because they’re still stuck in the negative points of view.

So when people do this work, I also sometimes we have to say you’re gonna change enough now that friends aren’t gonna like you anymore – certain friends, because you’re no longer in alignment with them. You know people that have anger, hang out with people that are angry and so you’re not angry anymore and you’re gone. “I got this to do. sorry guys.” And so it changes who you hang out with too.

So these perspectives are what vary between happiness and enlightenment. Happiness is a joke, it’s a laugh. Enlightenment is joy and that you still have stress, you still have the human problems when you’re in enlightenment, but you move to the place of joy very quickly. Instead of staying in this anger or frustration for years on and destroying families and things like that. So as you go through the process, our goal is enlightenment for people. Enlightenment being like we discussed on the last session. Enlightenment being a very simple definition – of being able to move through the problems in life instead of being stuck on them. So you have time left over just to exist and enjoy it and when you’re enjoying it, you feel joy. It just comes to you and every person, how they get there is different. And that’s why if somebody is a mechanical type, spiritual things don’t work because it’s the same practice for everybody. Just like aspirin, it affects everybody differently. So people got stuck in a practice and they’re stuck, they’re not enlightened.

So individually, we have to learn our own path to go into that place of joy and enlightenment and it’s a choice. All of it is a choice. We can choose to be happy but we have to make choices consciously with intent to become enlightened where you find that joy, even when in the middle of an argument.  We have to make those choices but like we talked about in the beginning of this, spirituality is so confused. The cultures are so confused – religious, spiritual, scientific et cetera and it just keeps people from actually getting there and you can apply that to many cultures. You apply it to the political realm, which we’re not gonna get in to today but in the politics world, those cultures, if you confused the people, you got control over. It’s the same thing spiritually. You confuse people and they can’t get there, so you’re controlling the enlightenment process.


0:55:42.7 Ashley James: You remind me of up until very recently in the Catholic church, I mean in history up until, I don’t know exactly 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 300 years ago, whatever it was, that the bible was not printed in English and most people didn’t know how to read. There was a considerable amount of people that didn’t know how to read and that it wasn’t written in English and so they trusted that the priest would give them the word of God which allowed – like it’s that disconnect that they were reading for the spirituality we get fed to them and it kept them confused enough, because if they couldn’t read it, they couldn’t memorize passages, they couldn’t be empowered by it.


0:56:31.8 Eric Thorton: Couldn’t call the church on the crap. If you don’t know what they’re saying, you can’t go. You can’t raise your hand and go. You’re taking that one a little too far. There’s a lot of humanity in that instead of just the word and then they build on the humanity.


0:56:50.6 Ashley James: Right.


0:56:51.5 Eric Thorton: And it becomes this big political trademark instead of from the original information. And it’s so very much on purpose.


0:57:01.6 Ashley James: In Quebec which is a province in Canada, the French saw that they were far outnumbered from the English. And so politically they told the churches to tell all the people that came that it was God’s will that they need to have very large families.


0:57:25.7 Eric Thorton: [Laughter] Big Catholic family huh?


0:57:28.2 Ashley James: Right. So still to this day in Canada it’s very typical to see a family of 12 children, if they’re in or from Quebec or Catholic and that it is all politics. Right?


0:57:44.4 Eric Thorton: Right.


0:57:44.9 Ashley James: But this is just an example of how politics uses religion in the past to control the population and that’s just an interesting example that because of that, Quebec was able to populate themselves very quickly enough to take over that region and it’s still in control of the region to this day.


0:58:07.4 Eric Thorton: We have this same thing here with these abortion sites. We have work shortage, we have a labor shortage of people that can do that type of thing and we can limit our growth to 1 or 2 children, so that population isn’t feeding itself. Population has to grow an economy to feed itself and so politically, they’ve politicized women’s birth rights so that they can control the population. They did the same thing in China. They have too many people. “You women, you get pregnant. You’re either gonna have an abortion because you only have 1 child. If you don’t, you gotta pay us 20 grand or 30 grand or whatever it is, the government.” And that’s how they control the population because their’s was too many. So it is, it is very politicized in these cultures and it’s confusing and it keeps the spiritual growth from happening.

How did we get into this? [Laughter] Do you want to get in that?


0:59:15.8 Ashley James: Either way.


0:59:16.3 Eric Thorton: The abortion stuff or the political things?


0:59:19.7 Ashley James: I was more thinking about going down the road of how to help people find clarity in their spirituality even though there is a cultural intent to keep them away from it.


0:59:33.0 Eric Thorton: Okay. So to finish up the abortion issue, if you think for a moment that God doesn’t know abortions happen or miscarriages, you’re crazy. There’s huge lessons from either one for both parents and those lessons are only good. Now, should abortion and my opinion be used for birth control? No. But there’s huge lessons and women that have had it and the men that I’ve provided have worked with them, they have enormous gifts come from these things and yet our political system takes that knowledge and confuses it and makes people very guilty for doing this and it stalls their walk. Because the cultures have made them feel so bad that they die with guilt instead of joy.

So there’s an extreme of everything that’s human. I’m human too, I get it. But there’s also a point to doing things correctly, in the right timing, and everything else. And if things are settled, then the couple or the woman alone can make a proper decision for themselves that they are at pace with and it’s done and they don’t have to carry this burden around their whole life that stops their spiritual growth.


1:01:09.6 Ashley James: I talked about this in a past episode but I worked with a woman which was back in 2005, 2006. It was right around New Year so I can’t remember whether it was in 2005 or 2006, right around there. And this woman had had chronic pain – massive. She was on Tylenol 3 everyday for years, I think for over 10 years she was on this pain medication and she was a long distance runner and the doctors kept saying to her, “It’s because you have arthritis from long distance running.” And I knew it wasn’t. I palpated her back, we did an 8-hour breakthrough session using NLP and timeline therapy and so I palpated her back and I felt her quadratus lumborum on one side – this is a square shaped muscle on the back, was cold and hard. Meaning there was no circulation there and then on the other side it was nice, malleable and warm. And I know that when we have unresolved emotions and we’re not facing them, our body will manifest in the muscles.

We actually squeeze the muscles so tight it creates pain so that we listen, so that we pay attention. And as we were working through it took a few hours of talking like you do in your sessions to finally come upon the secret she never told anyone that she had an abortion. She was Catholic and she felt incredibly guilty. I had her tell me the whole story and she went into the session and the nurse came to give her the pain medication before the abortion happened she said, “No, I’m not taking any pain medication.” And the nurse is concerned, the doctor came in and said, “There’s really uncomfortable. You’re gonna want to take it.” And she said, “I have to pay for this guilt in pain.” I nearly felt my tears, “Did you hear what you said?” I said, “You have been experiencing physical pain every day since your abortion because you’re still holding on to the guilt of it and she said, “No, no I paid for it that day.” I said, “Listen to your body. Where is your guilt right now and where is your pain?” And so she finally, like the light bulb went off and she realized that she was.

Everytime she felt guilt her back pain would flare up to 10 out of 10 and she’d take a pain med to numb it because she was stuffing down those emotions and so we did the emotional work and release the guilt. Her pain went to zero. I touched her back and the quadratus lumborum that had been previously hard and cold was red. It was like the circulation came back.


1:03:55.3 Eric Thorton: It’s the circulation coming back.


1:03:55.7 Ashley James: Yeah.


1:03:57.5 Eric Thorton: And that’s induced by culture.


1:04:00.4 Ashley James: The religious culture.


1:04:03.3 Eric Thorton: That’s induced by man saying what God thinks.


1:04:06.3 Ashley James: We’re not condoning. We’re not saying, “Yay! Everyone should go get abortion.”


1:04:11.8 Eric Thorton: No. No.


1:04:12.4 Ashley James: We wouldn’t wanna use it as a birth control.


1:04:19.2 Eric Thorton: It’s very hard for the female’s body, physically hard. If you have so many abortions, then you can’t carry children anymore.


1:04:26.7 Ashley James: There’s a heartbeat, it’s a human being that we’re killing.


1:04:33.0 Eric Thorton: Right, at some point. This is where our discovery hasn’t gotten there yet. A soul doesn’t necessarily hooked to the body at physical conception. There can be a heartbeat, there can be brain waves and that soul is still not hooked to that body and that’s not a viable egg yet. And there’s many things that happen that people don’t understand that has to do with karma, and souls, processes and things like that.


1:05:00.0 Ashley James: I think we have to go here now.


1:05:01.4 Eric Thorton: Okay. I’m gonna give an example. I know a lady, Catholic and in her 50s she got pregnant. Well the doctor said, “If you carry this, you’re going to die.” Because she was too old and she had too many children before and it just wasn’t gonna work and so she reluctantly had an abortion and she felt guilty of it for years and years and years. And she had children and grandchildren born and she found out that one of those grandchildren was in fact hooked to the fetus that she had aborted. Because this isn’t a waste. Souls wanna come into a family, genetics and if it doesn’t happen here, it’s gonna happen over here.

I have another client who’s she miscarried her stillborn and that child, that soul that was hooked and went to full term and there was something that went wrong. Horrible, awful, and I’m not just counting any of the pain and suffering. But her second child, she had another one and then the next one is the same soul that was hooked to the one that was still birth. So see, God knows what’s going on here, if you reason the word God. And it’s ok, but man in their ignorance sets up rules that become part of our culture that make it so people can’t grow spiritually. They have to stay as the follower, the sheep if you will, instead of becoming the shepherd. Because if they become the shepherd, they’ll look at governments and go, “Uh-uh honey.” [Laughter] And they vote for what’s right instead of the latest cultural trend.

And so the cultures like these points of control and they keep people in the lives of discovery from finding who they are and being able to help the rest of population towards enlightenment.


1:07:24.5 Ashley James: So let’s help those that are listening that are in their lives of discovery. Let’s help them to gain clarity so they can find their spiritual path clearly without having cultural intent blind them or muddy the water. So what advice or what tools, what kind of homework can you give those listening who want to gain more clarity and freedom around their spiritual path?


1:07:58.9 Eric Thorton: Well we all have our soul’s personality and our default personality which is the personality that’s formed in childhood and our current personality. The current personality is actually a combination of both – the soul’s personality or the soul’s history and the default personality. And so within each person, there’s a fight between the two, and old souls distinctly know it. So they go and they do this X,Y, and Z for a living or they get in these routines and habits wherever they are but something in them tells them it’s not enough, it’s not right, it’s not this and so – and our culture say, “No, you have to do this.” Well, pay attention to what something in you innately is going. This isn’t enough, this isn’t right. And then we throw in from our cultures the idea of success and what we’re supposed to be doing bringing success.

Success to an old soul is joy. It’s not cash. Yes, we have to have cash to live in the world but if you’re doing something that’s not at all going to bring joy in an old soul, or something if you’re in the lives of discovery, it will bring you joy for a while and then the old soul will need to move on, so it stops bringing you joy. Well, that’s a sign of your soul’s personality – to pay attention to these things and go okay instead of fighting it because the old the old culture says stick with it, go, “Oh okay, this is coming to a close now.” So I’m opening my eyes up. What’s gonna show up and have me naturally easily gravitate over there instead of me having a big eruption and, “Oh my god, I lost my job and all of the stuff.” Because you didn’t pay attention to when it was telling you, “Okay, I need to move on.” And then if you pay attention, you just naturally start opening your eyes up and you let the world manifest for you. If you get to the critical point where we discussed that you can’t stand it, you can’t recognize what the world is manifesting for you because you are too under the frustration.


1:10:21.7 Ashley James: That kind of sounds like being stuck in victimhood.


1:10:25.5 Eric Thorton: Oh yeah, that’s part of our culture. Victim is an award in our culture and in the largest percentage or our culture. And because then, that’s who you are, you become a victim. That’s what we’re taught we have to be and they keep changing the rules to keep us victims where old souls go, “Nope.” But we need to pay attention to it early on. If you’re an old soul and you have an obligation, like let’s say, you have a family, as an old soul you can go, “Okay, I know everything that’s gonna lead to something new and I can go get a job where I’m doing the mechanics to bring home a paycheck. And because I’m an old soul and relaxed, I can keep my eyes open from all the networking that’s gonna happen in this job that I manifested.”

If you keep going “I hate this job. I can’t stand it but I’m doing it to support my family”, you will never discover the networking that your guides will give you to find the next thing to do that’s in your pathway. But our cultures say, “Stick with it no matter what” and then you missed the boat.


1:11:42.5 Ashley James: That’s the golden handcuffs.


1:11:45.1 Eric Thorton: Totally, completely that.


1:11:47.4 Ashley James: This reminds me of a story my dad told me. My dad was the kind of person that had over 200 employees and he just would kind of fall in love with them and after they left, you know he wished then well and he’d like to stay in touch with them. He loved reaching out to people and help people with a really big heart and there’s one guy who had worked for him for a while called him up crying and freaking out. He wasn’t employed by my dad anymore and he said, “I don’t know what to do. We just lost our house. I’m sitting in our car. I got my kids and my wife and we’re homeless right now and I don’t know what to do.” My dad described him as being really stuck in that victim mentality unable to see, like you said unable to see the opportunities because he was so bought into the woes, “I can’t get a job. I can’t get a house, oh my gosh. We’re gonna be homeless.” He just kept focusing on the negative and not seeing the opportunity. And my dad said, “Didn’t you tell me you had an aunt in the other part of the province 4 or 5 hours way who wanted to come live with her and be her caretaker so that she didn’t have to go to an old folks home and she said that if you did this when she die, she’d leave you her house?” His friend had  forgotten this opportunity because he was so wrapped up in the victimhood, he couldn’t see something right in front of his face that when we’re in victim mentality, we can’t see opportunities.


1:13:34.5 Eric Thorton: That’s very true. Guides understand our anthropology. So if you take the limited information I have in psychology because I didn’t graduate with it. I didn’t graduate with a master’s. But it’s about what we call anthropological psychology. In anthropological psychology they look at the entire human being through anthropology instead of through cultures. The guides don’t care about cultures, they’ll point it out to you – what in the culture is upsetting your anthropology. So in anthropological psychology, they break down the human existence to very simple, non-complex features. So in anthropological psychology you have the family group, the friends group, and the trading group. And if anything in those 3 groups is upset, you become obsessed and causing you mental stress. Victim is going to either take away your trading group, your family group and or your friend group and if he gets all 3, he lost his house, friend group goes away, he’s got his family in a car – family group went away. And it started with the trading group. So that person had hit all 3 and your father found a way to bring him back to realize he was ok. He had someone to trade with – aunt. He had friends still – your dad was his friend to help him to keep his family safe. And all of a sudden you go, “Oh, my gosh.” And if you can keep any of those 3 upset, you can control the  entire person.

This is one thing they’ve learned with mass media. Last time we talked about energetic PTSD. Well, by keeping the political upset it keeps your trading group upset. It keeps it all in discourse and depending on your history, past life and current life is how much upset that is and then they can control the friends group and the family group. And that’s one of the big ways they’ve learned to control populations – is by messing with those 3 groups.


1:16:14.6 Ashley James: Yeah. You’ve brought up based on this interview and also in past ones about there’s a cultural meme that can control us, right? And so we as individuals would like to learn how to separate ourselves from the manipulation of the greater intent that’s trying to keep us unconscious?


1:16:44.7 Eric Thorton: In the work we do, when we find the soul’s personality and you start to recognize it in yourself, then you are automatically not affected nearly as much from these other groups that are trying to control cultures. So like with me, I do get a little upset because of our political situation because it’s throwing everything into an odd place that we’re not used to. I said if the current situation happened before Trump was elected, that was gonna be an interesting ride I didn’t say he wasn’t gonna be elected because there was a high chance he was gonna be elected and sure enough we are having an interesting ride. And it is a ride that we need unfortunately, because it has revealed a whole bunch of stuff in the under current that isn’t okay and we just were ignoring it.

And so, you can look at it from the perspective of the soul and what the planet is learning from it or you can come back down and be a victim to it. That’s up to you. That’s a choice.


1:17:57.0 Ashley James: So to come back to the abortion discussion, a woman can be a victim of the abortion and hold on to the guilt and be stuck possibly holding on to a physical illness. Holding on to the emotions like my example with my client, so in any situation where something negative, bad, harmful has happened to us in our past – and it could be a natural disaster, it doesn’t have to be someone doing to us or something that we chose to do ourselves, it could be something negative has happened. We can perceive it as negative and hold on to victimhood around it which not allowing us to learn, not allowing us to get to the [inaudible 1:18:48.3] not allowing us to heal our body.


1:18:51.9 Eric Thorton: It’s a cascade of effects and it’s not just one. So let’s say the emotion, if you feel guilty, it damages parts of your body. What it’s doing to the brain? Because the brain controls part of the body and that’s one. Put the muscle on that lady you’re talking about and it’s like, “Well why is the brain feeding that to the body?” What is it that’s there. So some of them maybe the Catholic yelt, but where has it caused problems all the way through their life that led up the need for the abortion? That’s what we have to get to – it’s what’s leading up to that? So that you have to have the abortion, you manifest, that’s a big deal. So that’s a manifestation and what are you learning from it? How are you going from it? Let’s remove the cultures and look at it for what it is and the benefits that you got or other family got. Maybe that the body that was aborted, the soul that might have been hooked to it is gonna go on to another family person or be yours again in a better situation.

Since we’re talking about that, sometimes people will feel the need the need for an abortion because it’s gonna be a defective fetus and they don’t know that but they feel a need to have an abortion. This isn’t the right timing because their guides are going, “Nope this isn’t right.” In other words, there are many reasons for things that our cultures overlook.


1:20:33.0 Ashley James: And again, I wanna say that we’re being neutral. We’re not being pro-choice or pro-life. We’re not taking a stance in this because I want both sides. People who subscribe to either side and I think like you said, as we become older souls we have a problem with staying in that one box that holding on to a radical being in one position, right? Because we see can see it from so many angles.


1:21:06.8 Eric Thorton: And there’s always tons of angles for everything and the cultures can’t incorporate all of those.


1:21:13.4 Ashley James: So we’re not being on either side, but we are saying for those women who’ve had that happen in the past that if they’re holding on to the guilt and not gaining the positive learnings like you said.


1:21:31.5 Eric Thorton: Exactly.


1:21:32.6 Ashley James: Because in any bad experience, whether it’s a tornado or an earthquake, it doesn’t have to be abortion, any negative experience to which we’re holding negative emotions, we can find positive learnings in order to let go, in order to learn or to grow, and in order to gain more spiritual health.


1:21:55.0 Eric Thorton: Well, just from someone going through a medical thing like an abortion or anything else, you gain a massive amount of compassion for it, if you’re not a victim to it. And then you can actually help someone else who’s going through something similar. If you’re a victim, you can’t. You’d try to help someone else, your victim energy is gonna come out and give them victim energy. Or if you come through it with no victim, then you can have that Godlike peer compassion that’s not judgmental.


1:22:28.2 Ashley James: Just like abortion is a very hot topic, miscarriages are very, very common and yet it is so painful to talk about. Women feel shame and guilt, they blame themselves, they feel like they’re broken or something’s wrong them.


1:22:48.6 Eric Thorton: Again, culture is victimizing those women.


1:22:54.8 Ashley James: What could you say to the women who’ve had those experiences in their past and maybe it’s still raw or still hurts or they’re still holding on to negative emotions? What could you say to help them to heal?


1:23:06.6 Eric Thorton: First of all if they didn’t have those emotions, why exist? The fact that they’re good people, they have emotions and you need to embrace that emotion without the guilt or the fear. That’s the very first step. It’s realizing how wonderful a person you are because you can feel that and then be with it. It’s like anyone died in the family, you don’t get over it, you have to place it. If you go into the cultures that have to do around a miscarriage or an abortion, you’re never going to find the value in the human being that you are that feels the things they feel because they are good, wonderful person. If someone has a miscarriage or an abortion and they feel nothing, what’s wrong? If they feel, that’s wonderful and they have to. And if they feel outside the culture, it can turn to compassion and love and turn to kind support for other women that are going through that and you can be an ear, you can be a therapist for them just in any given moment. If you truly embrace this good person that has these feelings, then you come to peace with it and then you can be used as a tool. If you’re in the victimhood, if you’re in the culture that keeps you from coming peace with it, it keeps you from learning them, then the guides cannot use you for your gift of compassion and love that you gain from these experiences. It never becomes that gift.

So that is the first and primary step. It’s seeing what a wonderful person you are for having that, for missing the opportunity of this fetus. And the reason we feel so guilty is because we don’t know that that fetus is probably gonna be born at some time down the line or that soul is still gonna come to you. But the soul is gonna come in an another fetus, that one more suited to that soul. Miscarriages and like I said earlier, abortions can be the impetus because it’s not at an effective body for what that sould needs and it knows it will come in to give like this lady I talked to you about that was in her 50s. She had great learning from it. And when she learned that she didn’t kill anybody, it will bring their life up to help others. That fetus wasn’t meant to come to [1:26:02.8 inaudible] it was meant to teach her that this isn’t a horrible thing. It took a number of years after the fetus for this to be revealed that it was her grandchild but it was like this is what was supposed to happen. It was a lesson in all of this then she realized, “Oh my gosh.” The church doesn’t actually know everything.


1:26:27.8 Ashley James: So is there free will? I mean could she have said no and move forward and had that child and this soul come in to, you know.


1:26:39.1 Eric Thorton: Of course and she might become very naive from it or died and those are valuable lessons as well.


1:26:45.7 Ashley James: So there’s freewill at each step in the road, there are valuable lessons from our choices.


1:26:51.6 Eric Thorton: I look at it this way, this is what I’ve been taught. We have certain things we’re going to do. Certain major blocks in your life much like in astrology, the major tangents. We’re gonna do them, there’s no choice and so everything’s gonna lead to these moments. But the guides will use anything that comes up along the way to teach you. So if you make a choice, you have 2 choices like with that lady – either have an abortion and possibly remain healthy for the rest of her life or not and possibly dying and how it might affect is she lived and things like that. She’s making a choice. The fact that the choice is there is what would be part of the Akashic record, karma, whatever words you might wanna use. Which choice she makes, then the guides will use that. The one that was supposed to which was the abortion and the other was, well, you have it you’re gonna be sick and on and on or die and then the child’s gonna be raised in these set of circumstances and probably if she would have had it, maybe that same son  that that fetus was going to be born to would be raising that child from that point on.

We don’t know these things and when we try to legislate them, it doesn’t work. We mess it up. That’s why it’s not the fight for abortions, it’s the fight for women’s rights because that’s the fight. You can have the choice to have the lessons from the choice versus having it governed. Since we’re on the subject, that’s what our forefathers put into our constitution – was the choices so that things could work out. Not according to a tyrannical government but according to freedom of choice. It makes them confusing, it makes it all muffled up. It’s not clean, and nice and defined, but it still keeps free choice. So we have our lessons not something to dictated by somebody else because the lessons are much sweeter when they come from ourselves. When we can get in that soul’s personality, it’s amazing what you can do. The most tragic things can become the sweetest things that ever worked.

And just because the child might be born into another body – the soul, it doesn’t mean you still won’t mourn the one that disappeared for whatever reason. It was because you’re a good person. Again back to that. That’s a wonderful  gift but they take it away with our culture so it keeps us from the enlightenment, from finding the joy. So it’s a sad state of affairs for this occurred in my book, “The Removing of Freedom” our personal choices. Again, we had to look at that and that’s why the current administration is in about what was happening underneath, it’s that we’re slowly taken away our freedom from both sides and we had to look at that and establish the things be well established of the next 10 or 15 years. A whole new way of existing in our country and it’s gonna be with free rights. It will be with  women’s rights because we’ve realized that all rights – we’ve realized that this in the background is being eroded, taken away. And now everyone’s going, “Oh heck. We don’t know what we’re doing ye but something is really wrong and we’re gonna change it.” And so it’s gonna be changed. That’s why I said it’s gonna be interesting. [Laughter] And it continues that way.


1:31:01.2 Ashley James: What can we do to open our perception to hear advice from our guides?


1:31:11.2 Eric Thorton: It’s that timeline, first of all. Everyone has things they can learn in each life. So by remaining in free will, by remaining and valuing who we are, we become a better tool for where our gifts are currently in our current life. So let’s say we have people in the lives of discovery, these are the people I see most and they have what in some circles, we call it totem. The totem is a symbolic gesture that talks about maybe you have these different animals on the totem or an object on the totem and it’s telling you that these gifts are available in this life. They’ve already done it in past life, they’ve earned it and they are available. When we’re caught in our cultures, the negative cultures we’ve developed, you can’t use the gifts well. When we come to the place of no judgement, that’s the place of joy. When you look at things from that moderate point of view you can find the full value, then can those totem animals come to you because you’re not caught in your pain and suffering. You’re in joy and then you can look at things through those gifts from a neutral place.

If you’re caught in pain and suffering, that is going to influence what we call the cognitive biases. So for example I worked with a lady, I’ll just use her first name Lara for a couple for years side by side in tandem with clients, but only the female clients. She could not work with the male clients. Now she was a master but very injured and she works through it. So she saw everything in the male clients as something – because men have testosterone, so she saw testosterone as a very, very negative thing even though she had it to. So the male libido and the male imagination is governed by testosterone supposedly when you’re young. And so men’s psyche goes all over the place. You know they talk about boys and school about every 2 seconds, they gotta think about testosterone related things and she would see that in the man’s energy filed and feel threatened by it. So these aspects of her totem could come out but a whole bunch more couldn’t because of her own fears.

Well if we’re asking to use our gifts, how can we do that coming from a negative victim place? Can’t do it. You put cognitive bias to everything the guides say instead of being neutral.


1:34:24.6 Ashley James: That reminds me in Huna which is the spirituality that comes from ancient Polynesian and Hawaii. They have this image of 3 points – the higher self, the conscious mind, and the unconscious mind and it’s like a vesica piscis where each one has a circle. So where the heart is the unconscious mind in this drawing and the one in the middle is the conscious mind and then one up above the head is the higher self where the information from guides would come from. And in this drawing in ancient Hawaii they would say that the information comes from the higher self into the unconscious and then the unconscious then gives it to the conscious. So kind of like eyesight of hearing, it is – all information to our 5 senses is filtered first through our unconscious mind and through the reticular activating system of the brain before it is filtered highly.

We think we’re always aware of everything that our senses have, but we’re not. Like you’re not aware of the feeling of your feet in your sandals or your shoes until I mention it because your brain deleted that information because it wasn’t relevant to right now. So our brains our always deleting or distorting information that’s coming in to our 5 senses or unconscious brain, right? And what we don’t think about often but what they illustrated in Huna is that the unconscious bias that filters the unconscious mind also filter the spiritual information coming through our intuition or our guides. And so if we have negative beliefs, our guides could be giving us really great information but because it’s coming through the filter of our unconscious first, that it can be distorted. So I think that’s what you’re describing.


1:36:36.9 Eric Thorton: Exactly. It’s very powerful. It has to do with your intent. So you sit here and if you are in fear on a subject matter, you cannot be clear about it. That’s why people masters are all moderates. Yes I have my biases, I can’t help it because I’m living a human existence. That’s why the work is inclusive because I can’t be used for everything. I have biases. I was born in the United States – that’s a bias compared to being born in South Africa. And so it truly takes a village because of those very biases. It’s like I can see the future through my biases, but you can’t be predicting the future like Nostradamus by himself. You have to predict the future, people that can all do this come together in a group to get the full perspective around one subject. So someone may be over it at 10 degree perspective, some may be at 30 degrees, someone at 36 degree, et cetera looking at the same subject matter and then you get a full picture. Instead of like Nostradamus, the pictures were very vague and you could apply it to many things. Yes he was good, no question about that but it wasn’t a full picture so we don’t know what he meant. Now if you’re working with clients everyday, you can’t go into the don’t know what you meant by your own cognitive biases. So it limits your healing ability to be used as a healer.

Now if you take the human subject as well just our who we are as humans, we’re not satisfied with who we are for various reasons, injuries usually. We always want to be somebody else. So there’s many healers we call wannabe because they want to be a healer because they grande sized that he’s being someone important. Where are true healer, true master feel none of that. They literally feel like the most normal person on the planet. Or people who want to be and they seek out, much like becoming a doctor. They seek out these spiritual things, it’s because we are spiritual beings we’re curious about it. But a lot of times, I’m sure you’ve seen it, is it’s the impetus for injury. And if that’s the impetus, that limits extremely what your guides can use you for.


1:39:23.1Ashley James: Until you heal that injury.


1:39:24.6 Eric Thorton: Until you heal that injury then it expands automatically. I have many clients who have gone on to become spiritual powerhouses that you’ve heard of in our area and around the world because we’ve cleared up all these other stuff through their processes here and other people they’ve gone to and all of a sudden their past doesn’t matter. There’s a very well-known hypnotist and an animal talk person around in the areas and I’ve worked with them both before they even started the businesses up. They couldn’t figure out what to do. They had these little gifts but it wouldn’t come together and we found out who, what, when, were, and why and all of a sudden it starts manifesting for them. But without that healing maybe the animal talk person couldn’t look through the innocent, it only looked through the injury and the fact that she loved animals and only animals because she couldn’t trust humans. Then you’re hearing from the animals all the negative things about humans and that’s not useful to a guide. So she gets through the injury and all of a sudden she takes that same gift and can now expand it because you’re coming through perspective. And she finds out all these wonderful things about animals now. She travels all over the world and we just solidified it for her.

Same with the hypnotist, she travels all over the world now doing things with people all over the world. She’s amazing now. I get her newsletters and all that other stuff and it’s someone you know. [Laughter] And I just solidified it for her. So I look at that and go, I was a little bitty part of her healing group that allowed her – and I don’t take credit for it. It’s just my little part to guide her to be able to go whack – there it is, her guides can then use her. And I know my part was just a little one but it’s part of her village and I’d love to know the rest of the parts of her village. [Laughter] Because it’s amazing what she’s able to do.

So that’s how you start using those gifts with totem. Then once you’re using them all or a large portion of them, then you have demonstrated your spiritual growth and then new gifts start showing up. All of a sudden the clarity becomes solid or  all of a sudden you’re able to work with people that you’ve never ever dreamed of working with. A whole different direction to your human practice because you have gotten your psychology – has become healthy. So it’s one step ahead of your gifts. If your psychology is behind you gifts, you’re doing it out of ego. And we talked about that earlier, that’s called a sorcerer or a sorceress. You’re working out of ego and they have the same gifts as a healer. The healer probably has been a sorcerer at one time because they’ve learned that using things and doing things out of ego and desire can make you very vulnerable and go into areas of ego and desire.

It’s very real. I’ve worked on a number of people – with local and distant sorcerers that are very serious. One time I’ve got into someone’s energy and literally my legs were not under me. I could not stand as if my legs were gone and I collapsed to the floor and the person on the table jumped up, “Oh my god, are you okay?” “Yeah, I am. I just learned something.” [Laughter] And sorcerers are the same as a healer, they’re just using it as an ego. I mean I could technically do all those same things but I would never do it. I’ve entered mastery so that can’t happen. Do I make mistakes? Oh, sure. But I don’t do my work from a place of ego. I have to reckon with that as far as doing public work too. Just being on a radio show, is it coming from a place of ego or coming from a place of healer? And I had to think about it and work with it various times throughout my career.


1:44:00.3 Ashley James: But just the fact that you’re asking yourself, I mean someone who comes from ego doesn’t sit there to contemplate. Is this really coming from ego or this is you know?


1:44:09.5 Eric Thorton: They don’t and that’s what I had to reckon with because just getting to talking on your blog here, it could be an egoic thing or it could be a thing for healing and supporting other people. And that’s where I have to learn to keep it there, if at all possible. Do I have opinions? Yes and it was like any other human. Do some of them stink? Oh you betcha. But the intent is to not create karma and just to remain integrity. And I have never sought any of this, it’s just there. So yeah, I want people to understand what I’m talking here.

When people are egoically seeking to their healing that is also a good thing, it’s just not mastery. When you seek to become a Reiki master, you are literally redefining by going to the process of how you feel energy and it’s bringing it to you so that in the future lives, you can use that. So these processes are very important of ego seeking and trying to be a healer because you wanna be – it’s an important part of it. Because you’re discovering the various ways that God reveals itself to the world. It’s just not a neutral thing that the master has. It’s an ego driven thing. So in the lives of discovery, you maybe want to learn Reiki, you maybe wanna learn herbology, you want to do this and you have to apply it to make a living. So I’m not finding any fault with any of that. It’s just not a master yet or you come in having access to all that information in a neutral way.

Great masters all have agreement set up that they do not create karma at all cost and how do you negotiate that is what the individual has to figure out because that’s part of the lesson. So how I negotiate doing public work is an important lesson for me in how to so that. The ascending masters are amazing at it. They’re great in the public, they’re great in everything. They’re just good at everything. They remain in that neutral spot. I’m learning that. I’m not there yet so I’ve had to find it within myself. And without wanting to do that, I would never have the experience of try it and finding those places. So I never preprove these things, when they take that and say that’s it and that’s end all for everything? That’s when I find a problem because that’s very high ego. So like Reiki, it’s not the end all. You can’t do everything being a chiropractor. You can’t fix everything. You being an herb person or a Naturopath, you can’t fix everything. And if so your ego drive to do that, and the ones I like are the ones that are open, they’re amazing people. And the ones that are closed with it, they’re not amazing. They still do good work, but they’re not amazing.

So perspective and intent is everything and we have to have intent. And so with my guides I have set up situations with them and no matter what, I don’t want to create karma and they literally cut me off, if I start to do that. Sometimes I have to do that in my life. I have to have my lessons too but they let those ones go buy. But the ones that I can screw up, they stop me from doing it so I don’t create more karma.

1:48:20.4 Ashley James: So as our gifts come into fruition, our  guides can help us.


1:48:26.5 Eric Thorton: Very much so.


1:48:27.5 Ashley James: And we can ask our guides to also help us not use our gift to disrupt karma or to create karma.


1:48:37.0 Eric Thorton: Right. Damage on a spiritual level. Because remember the bodies, they’re wanting to play a lot but they are vessels for it. We’re grateful for them, we need to love them. we need to respect them, we need to give them hugs, we need to say I’m sorry. Because of you spiritual pathway it causes strain to the body. We need to do all those things, they have to be very, very valuable and held very tightly but they are secondary compared to soul’s pathway. And there’s a convoluted pattern that takes place. You might say a series of venn diagrams where the cultural laws and the spiritual laws crossover and one creates spiritual growth and the other creates physical growth in these common areas. So spiritual pathways create human evolution. Human evolution in the form of all these laws and cultures create the incidences for spiritual growth. If it was legal to kill people, there would be no lessons if you are involved in a killing of another human being.

So we have to have those cultural laws to provide the spiritual growth. When you start giving the extremes, it’s out of balance and that’s in all directions. That’s why healers or masters will always be in that neutral plays. Always, when they’re working with people.


1:50:16.0 Ashley James: Yeah an idea came to mind when we’re talking about needing to maintain women’s rights and free will to choose to have an abortion or not. The idea came to my mind, what about laws like DUI or murder, why should we have laws to prevent us from doing other things that would take away a free will? So when one choose to drink and drive or choose to murder someone, those laws are imposing free will right? Just like abortion, to take it away would be kind of like taking away the free will. But what you’re saying is that we need some laws and balance – we need balance. I’m talking very extremes here. We need the balance and the laws in order for us to create circumstances to learn from.


1:51:16.2 Eric Thorton: Correct. So like someone you mentioned, drunk driver. Well, we think it’s wrong and it is. It’s really wrong for the human body and I won’t go there period. It’s wrong. But is that drunk driver creating karma or is he playing a part in the drama in the karma that a van full of people half of them dying from an accident from the drunk driver hitting them or getting in the way? We say the drunk driver needs to be punished and it’s all karmic or sin and this is that and the other. Well maybe they’re playing a part that says, I have to hit this car so this many people die so that karma between them takes place and you’re just a role. So then the person does have to be punished because he’s driving drunk and because not every drunk driver is fulfilling the karmic role. And we also have to love the drunk driver because he may be playing a role that is fulfilling someone else’s karma or it sets up in motion his or her karma.


1:52:34.2 Ashley James: And the circumstances allow these people to learn from to gain spiritual growth.


1:52:41.0 Eric Thorton: Right. The circumstances are the laws that say no and then it puts a punch into the growth. It shoves it over the edge. And if so you’re a drunk driver, you will go to jail. You feel guilty maybe you killed 10 or 15 people on a bus or something like that but it was something you had to do but you feel so guilty about it because of our cultures that you go to jail and you learn all sorts of new things. And you feel guilty so you’re interested in learning, maybe you get some psychotherapy, maybe you’ll find Jesus or Mohammad or something in jail and you learn a whole different new way of existing. It would never have happened if you didn’t drive drunk and kill a bunch of people.


1:53:27.9 Ashley James: I know 2 people, fortunately didn’t kill anyone but I know 2 people who had DUIs who – that was the event that had them completely changed their life.


1:53:41.6 Eric Thorton: Exactly. Without the laws it would never have listed them into that. And then if you expand the picture, if they didn’t have that event, it would have to amp up to get them to change and grow and their life. Then it may have been far more tragic.


1:54:01.0 Ashley James: This sounds a lot like in naturopathic medicine. We’ve had many naturopaths on the show even from day 1. The first episode of this show over 3 years ago, when we talk about physical health, the body speaks to us in symptoms and the symptoms start off as whisper. So maybe you have a little shoulder tension or a little tiny headache. Like really small, easy, manageable symptoms – the body is whispering. And if we ignore it or we self medicate, we take Tylenol or Advil or we drink coffee or whatever we do, over the counter or prescription wise, we look to self medicate, we look to push down the symptoms. We’re not listening to the body or we don’t realize that the body has this language is trying to communicate something. The more we not listen to the symptoms and keep going, the symptoms get stronger and stronger and stronger and also we’re gonna get hit by the cosmic 2 by 4 and that’s the body yelling at us. So if we can catch ourselves when the symptoms are small, correct something really soon. Like you catch something in pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes is easy to correct anyway but by the time you are full blown diabetic, you’ve done damage to your eyesight, your circulation, to your heart, you may not realize it. So it’s best to catch something when you notice a few weird symptoms like,  “I’m waking up in the middle of the night to pee.” Or, “Why am I angry and kind of hungry 45 minutes after eating?” Or, “Why am I really sleepy in the afternoon?”

You catch those symptoms early on, you can correct it. And what you’re describing is like spiritual symptoms that if we don’t learn and we ignore, it’s kind of like the lesson comes harder and harder and harder until we do.


1:55:48.3 Eric Thorton: it completely amplifies. We do that, we talked about magnets in one of the previous talks where each incident around the wound, you main wound is your main magnet stuck to your belly and each incident is another magnet. And we will keep getting magnets until we get a huge pile of magnets that forces us to our homework or we can look at it when we start collecting the magnets. And they’re designed to get us to search, search for growth, search for wisdom, search for God.  It’s a perfect system, if you’re stubborn, you’re gonna get a lot more magnets. You’re gonna get a lot bigger and bigger drama and that’s not  enlightened. Enlightened is looking at each high and low of the day and go, “Okay what am I learning from that?”

Sometimes it takes a day or 2 or 3 to do that but not a year or 2 or 10 or 15. And when you get this huge pile, if you have a pile of magnets and you kept adding to it, pretty soon you’re looking at apile of magnets. And if someone says boo to you, you look through the magnets and why the hell did you say boo to me? Instead of interesting.

So yes, very much so. We’re designed to amped up in everything until we finally tell whatever happens that it’s necessary. That goes back to the guides will use whatever happens to bring you to your lesson. And it’s not all planned. The major things are planned, but the rest of them which can become major are not planned.


1:57:42.4 Ashley James: What kind of introspection or what kind of questions can we ask ourselves in order to gain the positive learnings?


1:57:51.3 Eric Thorton: “What is it that’s giving me question?” So when a person’s stuck for example, why? Let’s say you want to break up with break up with someone you’ve been living with and or someone you have a romantic relationship with, you just want to break up when you think it’s over. You know, “We’re not married so it’s an easy thing to do” for example. And you’re stuck, you don’t know whether to stay with him or not stay with him. Well, if there wasn’t a problem, I mean you weren’t afraid of being a victim and you weren’t afraid of all the cultural things of being alone and all these different things. The fact that you’re having a fight in you, is in fact your old soul going, “This person isn’t for you.” But the self, the one that wants to be with someone because of culture, security, money, whatever it is, it’s going, “No. No. No.” Well if your soul guides guides weren’t telling you, you wouldn’t have the controversy in you. So if you got the controversy in you and you have the thing tearing you apart, it’s tearing the default personality from the soul’s personality. You’d better pay attention because the soul’s not gonna tell you to break up with someone, if it’s meant to be. It will have you keep working through the problems that develop 2 people being together naturally are there. If the guides are telling you no, well don’t pay attention to it.

We don’t pay attention. If you’re in the lives of discovery, our guides are constantly telling us what’s going on by those knowings. But again, our cultures keep us stuck – being alone, being whatever it is. It keeps us totally stuck in every way. So listen to the truth no matter how painful it is. If you listen to it in the beginning, it is easy to work your way through it. If you pull in the cultures of “no I must do it this way”, then it amps up and it becomes a very difficult thing to do. So, listen. That’s how i told my kids the same thing. If it’s just not there, listen to it. And if it is there, it will work out. So that’s where we fight it.


2:00:37.8 Ashley James: Thank you so much. My last question, I think I asked this last time, but I really like this question. Is there a message that – because all the people who are now listening, in the future because there’s no time to guides and angels. All the people are listening, their guides know that they’re listening. Do any of them have a message that wants to come through or is there a message for all the listeners or a message for some of the listeners, is there anything that they would like come through that’s important?


2:01:10.7 Eric Thorton: Well we talked about what to do today. The guides are big on this, we wrote the newsletter I’m recalling it.


2:01:19.4: Ashley James: Happiness is a choice. Enlightenment is deeper.


2:01:23.4 Eric Thorton: Happiness is a choice. You can go to a party, you can go to whatever but it is the intent that we have to have to go deeper to find who we are. We have to have the intent of not listening to cultures but listening to our souls knowledge that is coming through at all times. And it’s very deep and it will keep you moving on in life. In the lives of discovery, that’s the only way we’re gonna be happy. So it’s like in you, if you’re supposed to do the radio show for the next 40 years, it will keep coming and there will be new things to keep you growing. If you’re not supposed to, you’ll find things that becomes redundant and you keep trying but the world won’t won’t be manifesting for you if that were the case. And you have to look at the writing on the wall. Okay what is it then? That if you do it early, you could either adjust your media access or change it, whatever it needs to be done and it’s easy.

if you realize and you keep hanging on and trying and struggling, it’s gonna become very difficult when the world slaps you in the face versus evolution. Guides will always, and this is something that the new age I don’t think acknowledges real well. They will turn anything into development. So nothing is right or wrong and there’s that takeaway today is to get to that place of the soul’s personality where it looks at everything. It’s not or right or wrong but as in what we’re learning from it so that we can, yes choose to be happy but we can also choose to evolve with intent and then you have joy and then happiness becomes important but takes a secondary role. Because it is the joy that’s 24/7.

So that’s maybe a message for your clients today. It’s learning to look at that intuition early on so the guides can help you.


2:03:44.1 Ashley James: Yeah. Listen to the whispers instead of waiting for it. If there’s a bunch of drama happening in your life, it’s possible that you haven’t been listening to the whispers.


2:03:54.8 Eric Thorton: Just slightly possible, like huge. [Laughter]

I mean sometimes drama is part of our karma. Sometimes it’s part of raising kids, it’s part of your process. If you don’t have the drama, you’re not being a good parent, so you’d actually create karma. But where we take it like with the kids, if we take them, we resent our kids for creating drama, you’re not in enlightenment, you’re not there. If you think, “Okay this is the moment. This is the teaching moment.” And 5 seconds later, you’re in the next thing. I found it really fascinating with my kids because I’m not perfect but I have an interesting point of view in life. I would be sitting there having to have to discipline my boys or 1 of them and the others would come up to me and, “Are you done yet?” Right in the middle of it because they know I don’t pull from one into another.

I can literally be disciplining and teaching this kid how to live in the world as best I can demonstrate to him and not be really happy and the next I can, “Oh so you wanted to play baseball? Okay good.” Because I’m not carrying it.


2:05:16.8 Ashley James: You’re not spilling anger at all of your kids because you’re disciplining onw of them.


2:05:21.1 Eric Thorton: Right. I’m just disciplining one of them. Teaching them how to get along in the world from a perspective which teaches them to take in more perspectives and learn their own space. And if you don’t, then your kid isn’t gonna learn to so that. So you do that, but how carry that to the next? At least once in a while I’ll go, “Nope I gotta be pulled away.” It’s like, “I’ll answer that later.” And end up that I’m right there. I can take  each one of my kids on that day. Did I do it perfectly? No. Do I do it better than most? Hopefully. So far it seems to be working out that way.

Anyway, we have to look at the highs and lows in order to find the ego, in order to come to that place with neutrality in the center and then the guides literally could start opening up. How you get there is different for everybody. Do we help with that? Yes. Am I the one and only? No, not by any means.


2:06:30.0 Ashley James: Thank you so much, Eric Thorton. Listeners can check out www.ericthorton.com.Of course the links to everything that Eric Thorton does is gonna be in the show notes of today’s podcast at www.learntruehealth.com. Definitely check out all the other episodes that Eric Thorton’s been on. I’ll make sure that we have that all listed and linked in the show notes of today’s podcast. It’s been a pleasure having you back on the show.


2:06:50.4 Eric Thorton: Thank you very much. It’s been a pleasure being here. It’s always fun.


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Robyn Openshaw And Ashley James

Have you heard about Electromagnetic Field (EMF), its sources and how it affects our health?  Don’t you know that Wifi is one of the worst sources of EMF?  In this episode, you’ll learn more about EMF and how to minimize your exposures to it with the help of GreenSmoothieGirl, Robyn Openshaw. 


[00:00:03] Ashley James:   Welcome to The Learn True Health Podcast.  I’m your host Ashley James.  This is episode 358.  I am so excited to have back on the show, Green Smoothie Girl, Robyn Openshaw.  She was on the show in episode 178, where she launched her amazing book called “Vibe”, where she illustrated 200 high-frequency foods and I was blown away.  In fact, that interview was the straw that broke the camel’s back that made my husband go vegan and he was the biggest meat eater.  He only ate meat.  He almost never eats vegetables and after our interview, he just went, “I’m never eating meat again.” That was almost a year and a half ago and he never touched a piec e of meat and he feels amazing and within days of not eating meat he went, “I didn’t know that vegetables taste so good!  This is amazing! Why didn’t you tell me? I can’t believe it!” He’s so happy.  I just have to thank you for transforming our family’s health!  It’s been wonderful.


[00:01:16]  Robyn Openshaw:   Well, that’s pretty funny because that’s what not at all the intention of writing the book “Vibe” but I have been eating plant-based myself for 25 years, not entirely vegan, not 100% vegan, but probably 98 to 99% vegan for decades now and you certainly can’t avoid the issue of food.  If you’re really going to look at your own vibrational frequency and whether you’re vibrating at higher or lower frequencies and why, you cannot avoid the fact that the plant foods are high-frequency foods and the animal products and the processed foods are extremely low frequency, like close to zero.


[00:01:54]  Ashley James:  Right.  That really surprised me because I grew up in a household that believed you needed meat for strength.  You needed meat for energy and if you didn’t eat meat, you’d feel fatigued and that was the belief system that I was raised in.  And so, this idea of eating only plants was like, “Where are you going to get your energy from?”  And it’s so funny because it’s totally the opposite.  Meat makes me feel sluggish, slow and even when they do live blood cell an ounce, you see after eating a burger or something, a bloodstream is slow down to almost like sludge.  Whereas, when we eat mostly plant-based or all plant-based that we have more energy, more vibrance but you and your book in our interview, you talked about how there are scientist who can now with all these equipment can now prove that our bodies will vibrate at higher frequency when we are feeding it the foods that also have high frequency.  And that really leads into what we are going to talk about today because of this concept of, “How can we protect all of our 37.2 trillion cells in our body from all the frequencies that we’re being bombarded by?”  I know that since you came out with your book you’ve really dived into this topic.  I’d love for you to share with us what’s happening last almost a year and a half since you wrote your book?  What kind of things have you been researching and discovering?


[00:03:24]  Robyn Openshaw:  The book “Vibe” talked about a variety of things that we can do to be grounded and to discharge negative energies and a sort of a side topic or part of that you’ve (alluded) to hear and that’s pretty cool that your husband is now eating a lot more plant foods and letting go of dead low-frequency foods.  We can talk about the positive side of that which is the things we can do to ground ourselves and discharge.  I’ve really been taking a look at energetic (solution) that’s why you’re having me on to talk about today is, what are the things that we’re doing that inadvertently, they’re not even all that hard to get rid of or to mitigate, but what are some of the things that we’re doing because we live in this electronic age that is accidentally zapping our energy?  Because as you (alluded) to, you’ve been raised to think that you got to have enough protein to have energy.  Well, first of all, there’s protein in plant foods and we don’t need as much protein as many of us have been led to believe.  Most marketers in certain parts of the food industry who led us to believe that we got to have these quantities of animal products to survive and most people throughout history have had very little animal products.  In fact, they go whole entire seasons where they have no animal products if they are living close to the land and they’re not getting their food in the grocery store.  They actually have to grow it or hunt it.  Energy is really a different construct, especially when you go to more quantum energy studies and so, you’re now super clear on the fact that you want those 37 trillion cells to be vibrating.  Even the slightly higher frequency can mean a massive difference in how you feel.

So, what we’re talking about today are electromagnetic frequencies.  These are these chaotic and even radioactive frequencies that interrupt the high, normal, healthy frequency of human organisms overall but also if you get down to granular level, each of those cells they can’t really feel the measure of their creation if they are giving zapped all the time.  I’ve been really researching this idea of energetic pollution or what they call in Europe “Electrosmog” and they are way ahead of us.  In many other countries, I mean a lot of the publish researchers, there are over 8,000 published studies now of the negative health effects on human beings and other life of these chaotic frequencies.  

Russia and Europe are way ahead of us in acknowledging the problem, in documenting it and in protecting their citizens from it.  In Europe, they are sometimes referred to as EMF refugees.  There are lots of them here in the U.S. too that haven’t yet figured out that their problem is that they’re really tripped over by these chaotic frequencies.  Some of us can be in a yoga room where there are 40 people with their phones on, with WIFI emitting and they feel fine.  They don’t feel different but there are a lot of people, a significant minority of people who don’t feel well when they’re in these high-risk situations or we could talk about SMART meters.  We can talk about the kinds of light bulbs that you have in your house.  We can talk about how much dirty electricity your outlets in your home office or in your bedroom are emitting and each one of these uses a pretty easy fix for all of this cause there’s now an industry coming out saying “Okay, we got to protect people from these.”

We put people in this situation.  We’re about to be in 5G and when we go from 4G to 5G, and by the way what your phone says that you’re on 5G? That’s actually just marketing.  That’s a misnomer.  Some of the cellphone companies, I think Verizon and maybe T-Mobile say that on your phone, that does not mean that you yet have 5G.  Almost nobody has 5G but when 5G rolls out in every 3 to 4 homes in the neighborhood have one of these transmitters, we’re going to multiply the amount of EMF that we are exposed to by 100 times.  Those are the kinds of things that I’m having conversations with people about now and with my own audience about now because more and more people are becoming aware of it.  I don’t feel good when WIFI is on in my office.  I don’t feel good when I haven’t filtered the bleeding electricity in my bedroom.  I don’t sleep as well.  I don’t feel so good when I am interacting with blue light and devices all the way until I go to bed at night or I don’t fall asleep, things like that.  That’s where I’ve been in the last year and a half, Ashley.


[00:08:41]  Ashley James:  Figuring it out.  Well, what I think is interesting is the healthier we eat, the healthier we clean up.  We clean up our lifestyle.  Some people are complaining because they’re now more sensitive.  It’s like when I ate basically 10 years ago, I was eating from the dollar menu at whatever fast food joint and this is a big transformation last 10 years for me.  But when I ate that way, if I had one clean meal, I wouldn’t have felt a difference.  I always felt bad.  Right? And then all of a sudden I made that shift, I cut out gluten, dairy and switch to organic food and one are changed at a time, I noticed that I was having this huge shift in feeling better and better.  If I’d have a day where I went back and ate something that was one of the foods that I’ve cut out in the past, I just feel bad all the time so, I was habituated.  But now that I’m eating clean, if I eat one meal that’s not clean, I really feel it.  I just feel horrible.  I feel more horrible than I did in the past and I think it’s because we get so sensitive, we get so clean.  It’s actually a good thing because our body we’re now listening to the symptoms of our body.  Our body’s having an easier time telling us, “This is good, this is bad.  Go this direction, don’t go that direction.”  When we start to get really sensitive and realized, “Hey, when I turn the WIFI off, I feel better.”  When I’m in an office building and I look at my phone and there are 50 WIFI signals, I’m feeling like off.  It’s when we start to notice, we realized that we’ve spent so long becoming in tune and in touch with our body and becoming cleaner and cleaner with our health, then our body will start saying “Hey, EMF is affecting me.”

I didn’t think I was ever sensitive to EMF until I started interviewing a few people about it.  Sal La Duca is one of the first people I interviewed about EMF.  He is an electrician.  There’ll be clients of his who have insomnia.  He’ll come in and he’ll look around their bedroom and say, “No wonder you have insomnia, you have all these things plugged in by your bed.  You’re basically living on and you’re sleeping on a giant electromagnetic coil.” He unplugs everything from the bed and for the first time in 20 years, they can sleep.  And it’s just like, “My gosh!”  Because it’s invincible. 

When I went to your website, which we have an easy link: learntruehealth.com/emf, you have a video where it talks about how sunlight.  We experienced its warmth to our skin, it’s wonderful and then we get a sunburn.  A sunburn is like our body reacting to this radiation but we don’t really see, we see everything well-lit from the sun but we don’t see it as a danger until we start getting sunburns.  So, everyone’s walking around with cellphones.  If we got sunburns from cellphones, it would be so much easier to go, “Okay! The EMFs’ affecting me.”  But the sunburn we’re getting from all the electromagnetic radiation on the devices we’re carrying around, it is leading to a lowered immune system, cancer, causing the mitochondria to not produce energy properly and so it’s affecting us negatively on a cellular level.  I almost wished it was a little more blatant.  I wished people would go like, “Wow! I got a sunburn.”  I wish people would go like, “Wow! I really noticed a difference”  because then it would be easier, but I guess people have to just lower EMF exposure and then realize like, “Wow, I am sleeping better or I have more energy, I have more mental clarity.”  When you started lowering EMF in your space, what kind of health benefits did you notice?


[00:12:55]  Robyn Openshaw:  I cannot say that I’m a particularly energetically sensitive person but I will say that I had a similar experience to what you said Sal has talked about.  I like to think of in terms of a metaphor for what you were saying earlier.  About how the more you cleaned up your diet and lifestyle, the more finely tuned you became where very minor things that you would’ve never notice back when you ate a CRAP diet, now you do notice.  I like to think of it as, “That’s because you’re a Ferrari now.  You used to be a Hugo.” you know?  A Ferrari is a more sophisticated instrument and you’re going to notice those minor changes in the environment.  I also think though on the flip side that people who are energetically sensitive.  A lot of Functional Medicine doctors are theorizing this because I asked this question every time I interact with one of them and I know lots of them, like you, I interview them constantly, that people who are energetically sensitive may be people who have an immune system that’s pretty tacks and they just can’t take the additional insults or the additional impact of energetic pollution on top of everything else they’re dealing with.  Maybe they have had a lot of heavy metals exposure in the past?  Maybe they ate a lot of foods containing glyphosate because they haven’t been eating organic? Their genetics combined with high levels of glyphosate in their bloodstream, in their organs and it’s a bad mix for them.  But for me, one thing that I did notice even though I don’t think that I personally am very energetically sensitive.  And then, I have another one with my child, it’s when I took my TriField Meter in or actually my Greenwave Meter in and the free EMF action plan that you mentioned, we’ve set that up on Ashley’s site, learntruehealth.com/emf

Here are the top 10 things that I think you should address, that I think you’ll see a significant impact on your health, your quality of life, your energy, your ability to sleep, there’s the top 10.  And then, there’s another 6 that would be okay.  Most of them are inexpensive, some of them are even free.  Then go on to do this next 6, because you never know which one is really bugging you until you addressed them one at a time but it kind of let you just trip away at the problem.  When I plugged in my Greenwave filter into each electrical outlet, I found that my office was over 150 and keep in mind that anything over 50 is in the dangerous zone.  No, I’m sorry.  My office was over 400.  My bedroom and my son’s bedroom in the basement, where we had tested everything in my whole house from where the sources of dirty electricity and chaotic frequencies or EMF (Electromagnetic Frequencies) were coming from and I could tell you some of the surprising sources of EMF that we had to address.  I stuck this Greenwave filter into the wall and found that my son and I were living with more than 3 times of safe limit of EMF and when I got those then filtered.  The outlets that were over 50, I put a filter in. 

Greenwave also sells filters and on the EMF action plan that you can get at learntruehealth.com/emf.   I’ll link you to where they have a discount to get packs of them because I wanted to filter my whole house and I had a larger home.  When I plugged those into the outlets that measured over 50, I slept all the way through the night for the first time.  I think I that was 3 or 4 nights in a row.  I slept all the way through the night and I had not done that once a year for decades.  I don’t have terrible sleep problems.  I was really kind of solve my sleep problems years ago in terms of can’t fall asleep, can’t stay asleep but I would just wake up during the night.  I’ll wake up and I might be awake for 5 minutes, might get up and go to the bathroom.  I might be awake for 15 minutes but I do that once or twice a night and once I got the dirty electricity in my room cleaned up, I slept straight through the night regularly.  But I did it like 3 – 4 nights in a row and I was like, “Oh my gosh!” This has never happened to me in my adult life. 

When I filter it in my son’s room, he told me he was able to focus in school better.  He was an A student but he struggled.  He would tell me, “Mom, I can’t focus.” He was very clearly ADHD and his older brother was too.  I’m sure there’s some kind of biological component there.  I don’t know where he got it because his father isn’t ADD or ADHD.  I’m not ADD or ADHD.  I don’t have any trouble focusing, but all four of my kids.  My girls are ADD, my boys are ADHD.  He told me he was able to focus in school better.  He didn’t feel like his brain was scrambled eggs anymore, so that was really nice.  And it was such a simple fix too, to test the outlets using a meter and we’ll tell you how in the free guide, and then, to just put a filter in and clean up the ones that were bleeding too much dirty electricity.


[00:18:31]  Ashley James:  Can you explain, like you said it was 400 coming out of your outlets and your office, how far out is that field? Like if you’re sitting 2 feet away or sitting 5 feet away?  Or is that like 400 volts? So, the 400, that dirty electricity that’s coming out, is it amplified by everything that is plugged into the outlet so that the field expands the room?  How far away you have to be to not experience the dirty electricity?  Can you just explain a bit more or paint that picture?


[00:19:08]  Robyn Openshaw:  First of all, I see different experts who’ve tested this, saying different things about keeping things plugged in all the time.  You should just unplug your flat iron, ladies.  You should unplug things that might sit there plugged into the wall.  I see people contradicting each other on that, so I can’t be super definitive about whether it’s worth your time to keep things unplugged.  However, I think it’s really clear that some of the electricity is coming out into the room and getting in the way.  Now, what the radius is with your cellphone, you don’t want your cellphone in your energy field and consider your energy field about 8 feet away from you.  So, you do not want to have your emitting devices like a cellphone or a tablet or whatever, unless it’s on airplane mode.  If you turn on airplane mode and you only turn airplane mode off when you need to be actually transmitting data when you need to be making a phone call or sending and receiving texts.  We have to get in the habit of either turning airplane mode on while we have it on our body. 

So many women are sticking their cellphone in their bra going for a jog like that, going shopping like that.   You are putting radiation right next to very sensitive breast tissue and we have to stop doing that.  There are case studies and I think it’s going to be emerging whether this is really a thing or not, but there are case studies where there are brain tumors as the actual size and shape of a cellphone, right where the person holding it against their head.  See, we’ve only been carrying cellphones for like 15 years and it’s starting to become epidemic that the more interaction you have with emitting devices, the higher brain cancer.  That’s really clear now.  As for cellphones that emitting devices, you don’t want to be carrying them in your bras, ladies.

And guys listening, you don’t want to be carrying them in your pocket right next to your little swimmers.  We are talking about not just your reproductive health here, also talking about your sexual health.  Even if you are not super interested in making babies, you want to keep your sexual health vital until you’re dead, right? And then other things like the bleeding electricity, it’s probably like 6 or 8 feet that it’s affecting you, maybe more, but the really bad one is actually the WIFI.  You want that off even if it’s the floor below you and maybe your bedroom is on the top floor.  That radiation can be detected on a floor above, even 2 floors above. 

The biggest shocker when I tested everything in my house and I flew out Dr.  Libby Darnell.  I did a video, a masterclass with her.  You can take a look at that in the free guide that we give you.  I did a video masterclass with her, she flew out from Chicago and she had her big fancy equipment that I would never necessarily buy this, like 2 to 3 thousand-dollar meters and we have tested what kind of EMF I’m getting from the nearest cellphone tower, go outside and measure that.  We took a look at what kind of metering the electric company is using.  Luckily, I didn’t have a SMART meter in my house.  We need to talk about that.  Make sure we talk about that, Ashley, about what you can do.  This is in the free guide but we should mention that because that’s another one that will radiate you at very high levels, almost relentlessly and sometimes they can triangulate.  There’s one across the street, there’s one right by your house, there’s one somewhere else.  When they triangulate, there are very terrible things that can happen to people’s health.  If you’re unlucky enough to have three SMART meters triangulating in your bedroom, right where you sleep, for instance.  But anyway, WIFI is very important.  Here’s the big shocker for me, is that my son’s gaming system was so high emitting that you could literally detect it.  You can detect it even two floors above where the kid is using it.  It actually pegged out Dr. Libby Darnell’s meter when it wasn’t even on.  It was just plugged into the wall and she had warned me about that but I was like, “That seems strange.” What we found is that my son actually had a second gaming system.  They’re both plugged into the wall and he is not a huge gamer.  He might go weeks at a time where he was in school.  He was at the time we did all this measuring I think he was a junior in high school, now he is a freshman in college and gone from home, but I didn’t know he had a second one.  I don’t know if he bought it from a friend or what, but that was one of the worst sources of EMF in my house.

We did a bunch of the things that we put in this free EMF action plan.  We were able to bring the chaotic frequencies in my home way down and that’s what I’m hoping to educate your audience about, Ashley, is that when you bring it way down, we may not be able to bring it to zero but not only are we then getting a lot less exposure to radiation, which we all know that is very disorganizing for our cells, right?  It’s causing protons and electrons to malfunction, to not do what they’re supposed to do in our cells.  We’re picking up electrons and protons that we don’t need.  Cells are not able to transact business with each other as they normally would.  But in addition to reducing radiation, we also then have a home that’s more like the calming peaceful place that we want it to be.  We want our homes to be like a safe haven, a place where we can calm down, rest and relax after work.  That’s part of the goal here too. 


[00:25:09]  Ashley James:  I love it.  I had Dr.  Klinghardt on my show, who actually is a local to me, just about 15 minutes away at the Sophia Health Institute.  He’s internationally known and in his 40 years of practicing, many parents have brought their children who been diagnosed or misdiagnosed with being on the spectrum have come to him and the first thing he has them do is remove exposure to WIFI.  He absolutely sees a huge difference in children who are autistic or have sensory processing issues, that their symptoms are magnified by being around WIFI and that’s when he removes devices from their environment.  He has the parents turn off WIFI and hopefully live in a home that’s not like an apartment where you’re exposed no matter what but at a home that can be far enough away from neighbor’s WIFI.   That they calm down, that they have less ticks and less outbursts.  And then, he explains that glyphosate being a big part of this because glyphosate is a chelator and doctors definitely said that’s been on the show, talked about us too that glyphosate will grab heavy metals like aluminum, will deposit them in our kidneys and deposit them in our brain. 

Even in utero, this is happening because it crosses the blood-brain barrier, crosses the placental barrier.   So, heavy metal is a bit accumulating in their nervous tissue and then, when we turn on the WIFI, which is 60 Hertz I believe, it’s vibrating then metal in this tiny microscopic metal that’s in our brain.  It’s vibrating that which is heating up because when you vibrate a metal, it’s going to heat up.  It’s like putting your head in the microwave.  It’s the WIFI that is making the heavy metal in your body vibrate which is creating heat and that, of course, is going to damage us.  And they’re seeing that it affects the mitochondria negatively.


[00:27:20]  Robyn Openshaw:  We should talk about that because there are other things people don’t think about with metals.  You’re talking about actual heavy metals that are trapped in tissues, organs, and cells, but what about the fact that we wear metal jewelry, ladies?  And then we sit in our cars, and we text, we’re literally making ourselves an antenna in a microwave.  That might be kind of extreme.  Let’s not create panic because people will say, “I do it and I don’t feel like I fried myself when I get out of the car and walk away.”  That’s true, but can we just acknowledge this simple fact?  That reminds me when we go through the scanner, the TSA scanner when we go to get on a flight and the TSA agent will tell you when you say, “I want to opt out, I don’t want to go.  I don’t want to get radiated in your scanner.” And they’re like, “It’s just like being in the sun for 10 minutes.” Well, it’s not a single exposure.  It’s the accumulative effect of the many exposures that we have.  Like you said before, you almost wish that we had a violent reaction to these exposures so that we were motivated to bring the level down.  We do need to acknowledge that there’s an insidious process that’s taking place from accumulative exposures and going through the checkpoint to get on a flight is just one of them than being on the flight, actually exposes you to quite a big radiation.  But that’s why it’s a really multifactorial problem and we need to just be aware. 

That’s why I love to do shows like yours where you’re super interested in educating all the health coaches and other people who follow you about this because there’s a lot of little, small, not-difficult-at-all things that you can do and you’re chipping away that exposure.  And if you can decrease that exposure by 3 floors and it’s easy and cheap to do so, why would you not do that?  It’s not even changing your lifestyle.  We’re not saying you have to drink a quart of green smoothie a day to bring your exposure down.  That’s like actually a significant change that I always try to get people to make.  By bringing your EMF level down, does it decrease your enjoyment of your life? I’m not asking you to give up your Cheetos to bring your EMF down or whatever is like this pleasure thing that you have in your life.  You don’t have to give up pleasure in your life to bring EMF down.  It’s just being aware and it’s making some really simple changes.  You don’t have to go out of your way to bring your EMFs’ level down.  Does that make sense?


[00:29:53]  Ashley James:  Yeah, I think people might go, “Woah! But I’m addicted to my phone?  I look at it all the time.  I don’t want to put it in airplane mode because I want to know when I get a text.” What about those people that want to lower their EMFs’ but they don’t want to interrupt their phone addiction?


[00:30:09]  Robyn Openshaw:  Yeah, you know what? I am finding that fewer people are saying that because they know they have a problem.  They know they are addicted.  Now our phones are telling us how much time we spent online and the amount of time I spent looking at my phone is a full-time job.  Now, granted I have a full-time job that is online, but I shouldn’t be spending 8 hours a day on social media, texting, phone etcetera but that’s what my phone tells me.  What I’m finding is that people aren’t saying that they’re like, “No, I want to be addicted to my phone.  I want to look at my phone all day, every day.” I’m finding that we are totally in hammered in our phones and our devices that we are super excited about and now people are going “Oh, my gosh! What could I be doing with this time that I spent staring at a device?”  I’m not saying it’s completely easy to say I’m going to have my phone in airplane mode a lot more than I do.  I mean at a minimum, put your phone on airplane mode at night and you might think of “Oh well.  My phone is charging 6 feet away from me or whatever.” This has been a hard one for me to get my kids who sleep with their cellphone next to their head.  I don’t.  I put it in the bathroom around the corner from me but I always turn airplane mode on.

There’s turning airplane mode on which eliminates all emissions from your phone.  There’s no transmitting from your phone at all when the airplane mode is on.  But here’s the thing, if you’re a person who constantly has a WIFI on on your phone, then instead of your phone pinging the towers every few minutes, it’s doing it every few seconds.  That’s another thing.  All of this is incremental and every little bit helps.  So, not having your WIFI on all the time.  Some people want to have the most inexpensive cellphone plan they can until they really rely on WIFI.  I would just challenge anybody who’s like, “No.  I wanted to look at my phone all day, every day.”  I think people are really saying that they’re trying to see the cost of that, not just the cost in terms of the amount, that might be new information and for some people listening, I think your audience was pretty educated and must probably be aware of the amount even though I would say probably 98% of the population isn’t, but they’re also starting to become aware of the cost in terms of their social life and how meaningful their interactions with other people are and their productivity.  When you put in an eight-hour per day at work but two and a half hours of it is being hijacked by your phone in texting people and looking at Facebook and whatever, how are we getting ahead of our careers when we’re doing that?  So, there’s another benefit to decreasing your screen time.  There’s more benefit than you’re getting less exposure to radiation.


[00:33:08]  Ashley James:  I don’t remember the exact study but it was very interesting [inaudible] talked about it that they did a study where they put a cellphone up to brains to a certain amount of time, 2 minutes, 2 hours whatever it was and then, they looked at the mitochondria.  The mitochondria, the powerhouses of the cells for those who don’t know, they could produce ATP, which is the S-cellular energy.  There are some doctors that say that all diseases are diseases of the mitochondria.  That they basically can look back and say that where disease starts, is when the mitochondria are damaged or can’t work properly then that’s the beginning of any disease, that’s kind of the root cause.   Some people believed it’s the root cause because what they found is that the mitochondria go to sleep and when they would be directly beside a cellphone, a phone call or a smartphone, the mitochondria for a certain amount of time, go to sleep.  The mitochondria of the nervous tissues, of the brain cells.  That is really scary.  The idea that our exposures constantly dampening the mitochondria from functioning but the mitochondria of our brain, of our nervous tissue are being dampened.  They can see that with all their $20,000 scientific tools.  They can see that and we don’t feel it.  You don’t feel it.  Besides feeling maybe brain fog or fatigue or not having a good sleep, we don’t feel the EMF but if we keep going the way we’re going, we’re going to create disease.


[00:34:53]  Robyn Openshaw:   Yes and you know, we don’t know yet what the long-term impact would be with so much radiation we’re not exposed to especially in the last 15 years since cellphone become ubiquitous.  What will be the long-term impact on the neurological disease?  We know that neurological disease is sky-rocketing.  We know that Parkinson, ELS, MS, dementia, Alzheimer’s are sky-rocketing and when we’re shooting a stun gun, like you said our neurological function, I have to wonder if there’s going to be a long-term negative effect on the neurological health of the people using all these technologies all the time and not mitigating it because right now, I’m talking to you, I’m obviously seating in front of the computer and I’m aware that I have some exposure right now.  But my cellphone is not in the room with me and when I go get it later and checked it, I’ll either put it back where it was and leave it out of the room with me where it doesn’t tempt me to pick it up and check it three times an hour, or if  I bring it back in here, I will turn it on airplane mode.  So, I know we hit that one hard and there are other things that we can look at, but each one of these things does make a difference, so don’t feel overwhelmed, just chip away at it.


[00:36:22] Ashley James:  I can attest to the fact that you don’t have your cellphone with you.  So, I tried calling you right before interviewing, you didn’t answer so I’m like, “She doesn’t have her cellphone with her.” She’s walking the talk.  She must be decreasing her EMF exposure.  Yes, I caught you.  I caught you doing exactly what you say you do, which is awesome.  Very cool.  So, any of the outlets in our home or office can be just spewing dirty electricity.  We can think of the Fukushima leaking radiation.  Our house could be leaking electromagnetic radiation at us and disrupting our overall health.  We can easily fix that.  We’ll use your free guide and it talks about the steps we can take to, first of all, to test our meters, to test our outlets and then fix our outlets.  Should they’d be above 50, which you say is the number that you want to be below and that’s at learntruehealth.com/emf, as the Free guide.  Okay, so that’s taking care of.  Let’s talk about SMART meter because I first heard about SMART meters, I feel maybe about 7 years ago and they sounded really crazy.  So, I might not have a full understanding about SMART meters but are they like these big white boxes that are outside your home that are having their own version of WIFI?  And they talked to your house or they measure the amount of energy and they actually emit the frequency just like WIFI, is that correct?


[00:38:02]  Robyn Openshaw:   Kind of it.  And we’ll tell you what you need to know in the free guide in the learntruehealth.com/emf.  But here’s the thing, the electric company doesn’t want to come out and read your meter anymore.  Obviously, as technologies advanced, they wanted to get people out of it and automate just like every else does.  We’re now in the age where a lot of people refer to this as the age of the internet-of-things and 5G is accommodating.  The rollout of 5G that is on its way to select American cities and probably everywhere, where there’s any population density, is to accommodate the internet-of-things.  Where now your refrigerator will be attached to an app and will be emitting and your thermostats and so many other things and we’ve already seen these.  There’s a medicine cabinet that has Bluetooth in it. 

When I was moving last year, I saw it.  This is it.  These are the internet-of-things.  Everything’s going to be emitting and nobody’s really counting the cost and saying, “Well, I don’t think we should sell a bathroom medicine cabinet?”  They’re emitting chaotic radiation that our family is exposed to.  Nobody’s going to say that because they just want the high-tech thing that’s what’s really hot right now.  So, of course, the electric company doesn’t want to meter you by sending a guy out, that’s really expensive.  So, there are analog meters that ping or send data about your electric usage to the electric company whether it’s 5 miles away or 50 miles away.  In the house I just moved away from and in this one that I just moved up here to Park City, Utah 9 months ago, I have an analog meter and it’ll ping the electric company a couple of times a month.  No big deal, you shouldn’t worry about that.  That’s just not going to rate on my top 10 things for you to worry about.  However, take a look at the free guide so you can figure out whether you have a SMART meter.  I started talking about SMART meters 12 years ago on greensmoothiegirl.com and I had my own style.  I was saying you’re not going to talk about that because you sound like a crazy tinfoil hot lady because that’s weird.  You shouldn’t talk about these stories about people who live in a place where three SMART meters are triangulating, that their [inaudible] ruptured, because you sound like a crazy person.  I’m like, “Well, okay.“   But I think this is a real thing and this is why I think it’s a real thing and it’s measurable.  This is not hocus-pocus anymore.  We’ve come a long way in the last 12 years since I started writing about that and I think more people are taking it seriously.  It’s more established science whereas back then, it was mostly just testimonials of people saying, “Hey, these SMART meters are scary.”  But the thing of these SMART meter is that it’s attached to maybe the side of your house or condo or whatever and it’s literally pinging the electric company every few seconds and it’s a very, very strong signal.   Now, why would this matter?  What if it’s right outside your child’s bedroom? 

What if it’s right below your condo?  Now, I have an employee and this is in the free guide, I have an employee, who went to the electric company, she’s a North Carolina.  She said, “My Function Medicine Doctor said that I am made very ill by electromagnetic frequencies, and I can’t be near a SMART meter.”   Sometimes we talk about negative things.  This is kind of exciting because 10 or 12 years ago, people were going out in the middle of the night and smashing the meter, and then, the electrical company comes out and would fix it, and they would go out and smashed it again.  So basically, subtle disobedience or people were going out putting aluminum foil on it, and there were companies who were developing shields so that the in the inside of your wall, if you have a SMART meter that you could try to shield your house and that’s a whole rub at all, we won’t go down.  But these are the kinds of things people are doing 12 years ago is accessible disobedience.  It’s like the Boston Tea Party, let’s all throw the tea in the ocean or in the harbor.  Here’s the thing, my employee in North Carolina told the electrical company that she would be made very ill by having a SMART meter and not only did they opt her out of the SMART meter, but they didn’t charge her to put in an analog meter instead. 


[00:42:44]  Ashley James:  Wow. 


[00:42:45]  Robyn Openshaw:  And I think this is exciting because it sets a president if they’re going to let her do it.  Now granted she got a letter from a Functional Medicine Doctor and, “Hey maybe you have a neighbor who’s willing to do it for you, who’s a doctor and we’ll write you this letter or whatever. “But we’re going to attach this and we’re going to link in the free guide that’s on learntruehealth.com/emf, we’re going to put on there,  we’re going to scratch out her name and we’re going to put a link to it so you could see exactly what her Function Medicine Doctor said, that created a liability issue for the power company, the form that she filled out and they got her off the hook.  So, 10 to 12 years ago, my own employees were telling me that I was a lunatic for even talking about these issues.  Five years ago, we were able to opt out but only after a big fight and we have done then pay 20 to 30 bucks a month for them to come out and read it to be able to get out of the SMART meter.  Now, these power companies are accepting that it does harm people and are waiving the fee if you could say that it harms you.   


[00:43:58]  Ashley James:  How do you know if you have a SMART meter?


[00:44:01]  Robyn Openshaw:  Go take a look because it is sort of a visual thing and they do look different.  But in the video masterclass, I did with Dr.  Libby, it’s in the free guide that we’re sharing with you.  But there is a video about that where Libby goes out and we show what my analog meter on the side of my house looks like.  We show photos of what SMART meters looked like and we show the ones that the guys would come around and take a look at.  So, it’s more of a show than a tell because they do look different but we are clear about that and we show in the video masterclass that you can see in the guide. 


[00:44:46]  Ashley James:  So, the SMART meter attached to your house is sending a signal every few seconds to a receiver somewhere in the street, somewhere on a pole and that receiver is receiving the SMART meter readings from the neighborhood, and then, sending it to the electric company?  But because signal like a WIFI or a Bluetooth, all these signals don’t beam directly they go out like a sphere and so the signal, it’s trying to get to the street.  The SMART meter has to be strong enough to send the data all the way maybe on a block down or wherever the reader is.  So, the signal has to be incredibly strong and every time it pulses to send out that information that’s like a sphere wave that’s pulsing through your entire house and penetrating everyone in it.


[00:45:48]  Robyn Openshaw:  Yes,  and I would say there are transmitters and receivers.  When we have 5G,  I am going to stay in touch with you Ashley and I am going to share a solution for 5G, like a whole home solution that I think you’ll be super interested in and I think that you’ll want to tell your followers about it because those of us who know 5G is coming and is like, “Okay, what are we going to do when 5G comes?” Because we’re not going to opt out of WIFI.  I mean, it’s just the way the world works.  I’m not going to buy a refrigerator as long as I have other options.  I’m not going to buy a refrigerator that I operate by app and my thermostat isn’t controlled by an app.  I got a litter robot for my cat and the next thing I know, there’s an app on my phone.  I don’t know if whoever set it up for me.  I don’t think they put it on my phone.  Why is there a litter robot for my cat on my phone?  When I say internet-of-things, I mean it’s proliferating in a quantum way.  I’m really excited about the fact that there are companies developing solutions for this.  And unfortunately, 99 point something percent of us are going to be asleep in the wheel, but not your followers. 

They’re going to stay close to you, you’re paying, you have your ear at the ground, you’re going to pay attention and the solutions that actually worked.  They’re actually proven to work.  I am right now following a company that I think they have the solution and I’ll be introducing you to them.  I have been talking to them very extensively.  In the meantime, there are multiple solutions if you want to screen blue light, then you’re going to have to maybe the last couple hours of the day.  If you’re going to be working on your PC or looking at your phone or watching TV, maybe wear blue light blockers.  We have in the free guide our favorite blue blockers stuff like that, or you’re going to keep your kid’s gaming stations unplugged.  That was a rule from that time forward when I found out that Tennyson’s gaming systems even when they weren’t in use, were one of the biggest sources in my house.  You’re going to have your WIFI turned off.  You’re not going to have your WIFI in the room where you work, if possible.  These are the kinds of things that you’re going to do to bring this down but SMART meters are one of your worst sources, WIFI in your home is one of your worst sources and your kid’s gaming system is one of your worst sources.  Hope that’s helpful.


[00:48:17]  Ashley James:  Absolutely helpful.  I’m going to have to run around my house and see if I have a SMART meter now.  I have a modem or router that I can turn off, that has an on-off switch.  Once I don’t have an on-off switch, it’s like a pain in the butt to turn off if you unplug it and plug it back in.  Sometimes you have to reboot the system and their software.  So, get one that has an on-off switch.  I’ll see if I can give the info about mine in the show notes of the podcast learntruehealth.com.  It’s so easy.  We only turn our WIFI on when we absolutely need it.  Like I’m sitting in the sauna and there’s a tablet in there and I want to stream some music or watch something.  I turn on the WIFI then and when I get off the sauna, I immediately turn it off.  I only use it when I need it, otherwise, we hardwired all of our computers directly to the modem, so that we don’t need to have that bombardment frequency. 

What’s really interesting is that I can tell when the WIFI is on.  I got to be in the bedroom and my husband will turn it off and then, come into the bedroom to go to bed and then I’ll say, “Did you just turn it off?” Like I can feel it.  It’s like being agitated and then all of a sudden not being agitated.  It’s really weird like it was on all the time, it’s like a one percent agitation I feel like that’s kind of my norm, but when I turn it off all of a sudden it just feels like a little bit less agitation.  It’s interesting that now that I turn it off most of the time and then when I turn on, I can actually feel it.  But at first, if I go to someone else’s house, I don’t notice it.  It’s very slight but it’s really interesting.  So, it’s fun to play with to turn it off.  It’s also cool to turn it off because it gets the whole household sort of like winding down for bedtime instead of playing on their tablets until 11 at night.  But I love your idea for wearing the blue-blocking glasses, having the WIFI off as much as possible, checking for SMART meters and opting out in SMART meters when possible.  5G is really scary.  We’ve talked about it on the show before.  I am kind of terrified and I’m thinking I’m going to move to the middle of nowhere if 5G comes to my neighborhood.  So, I’m really glad that you have a word with a company to bring us some solutions. 

I look forward to having you back on the show to talk about that.  You mentioned light bulbs.  It’s funny because my husband just replaced all the light bulbs in our kitchen and I think we spent half an hour at home depot.  He was going for light bulbs and I’m like, “No! That’s a bad light bulb.  That’s a dirty light bulb.” So, we spent half an hour trying to pick the cleanest light bulbs.  I’d love to talk about light bulbs, what are the bad ones and what are the good ones?


[00:51:05]  Robyn Openshaw:  Okay.  The worst ones, these are the light bulbs that kind of came out when people became more aware of global warming and then, after a few years of them being out on the market, people are like, “Wait a minute, this has mercury in it.” It’s off-gassing mercury.  The ones to categorically avoid are called CFLs’.  Those are swirly bulbs, don’t buy them.  If you have them in your house, you have to get rid of them.  I hate to say it because that means mercury is going to go in the landfill but I care more about the bad beam.  You don’t want to have it in your house.  Now, when you put those CFLs’ in, they are doing most of their off-gassing like 70 percent of it within the first few days after installing it, so they’re just terrible in those early days.  They put out a lot of EMF and they’re emitting mercury.  So, please stop buying those CFLs’.  Those were sold to us as a global warming solution and they’re just not a solution for anything good. 

You have to replace them with incandescent bulbs.  Those are the old school ones.  Those are the ones you grew up with and they’re cheap.  We linked you to them on Amazon.  Those were good, dependable, cheap incandescent bulbs, but you can get them at Home Depot too, whatever you want to do.  Probably your second best, the third category of bulbs is the LED bulbs.  Those are probably about 20 bucks for an 8 pack.  Those are more expensive than incandescent.  So, don’t you love the good ones are the cheap ones here?  Going back to the cheap bulbs, the ones that we had when we were kids.  LEDs’ are the second best but I’ve tested some that are pretty high EMF and some that are pretty low.  If you have a choice just go with incandescent, right?


[00:52:56]  Ashley James:  My understanding with the LEDs’ that they have a flash like a flicker rate?  That is not very healthy.  Have you heard of that?


[00:53:05]  Robyn Openshaw:  Well, yes.  It may be affecting your pineal gland.  We don’t really know yet what impact LED bulbs are having.  They’re being sold as being useful for our health in some ways.  Other data suggest that LEDs’ in at least some applications, in some products, are a problem.  So, if you have your choice and you don’t have a reason to be using LED, just go with the incandescent.  So, the pineal gland and the blue light thing just to barely touch on that to give you the very basic nutshell here, is that your pineal gland used to produce melatonin starting about 9 or 10 o’clock at night, after the sun went down because your body’s signal went came through your eyes in to your pineal gland in the brain and melatonin was produced to calm you down and allow you to sleep. 

Well, the problem now is everybody’s looking at screens all the way until bedtime and that blue light spectrum is telling your pineal gland, “Hey! It’s still daytime.”  So, it’s confusing your brain.  Your pineal gland is not necessarily producing melatonin or not enough to calm you down and lets you sleep.  You can wear blue blockers or you can just stop interacting with screens at night and decide, “No, we’re going to enjoy each other.  Enjoy your husband.  Enjoy your kids.  Read a book.” Something like that.


[00:54:35]  Ashley James:  My husband just mouths to me.  We have a SMART meter.


[00:54:40]  Robyn Openshaw:  He probably googled it.


[00:54:44] Ashley James:  He’s looking at me.  He’s in the office but he knows not to make any noise.  So, I’m going to follow your free guide, to opt out of my SMART meter.  I’m so glad I’m learning from you today and I’m glad my listeners are learning from you today.  Ryan Sternagel, who I’ve had on the show and I know you are friends with him because he’s local to you.


[00:55:04]  Robyn Openshaw:  Yup.


[00:55:06]  Ashley James:  He is now called the Stern Method, before it was My Kid Cures Cancer, that was the name of the show.  He talks about the new house he built, which is now completed, but he built the entire house after they helped their son who no longer have cancer.  They decide to live the lowest EMF, the lowest toxicity light possible and they built a house out from scratch, out of all non-toxic materials, which is really interesting.  But he talks about how he has light bulbs in his house that are red.  So, at night they turn on those lights and he says it’s kind of funny.  The neighbors probably think they’re like satanic worshippers.  The whole house is like lit red but that is to lower the blue light.  Do you have any thoughts in choosing incandescent bulbs for their color spectrum?


[00:56:01]  Robyn Openshaw:  You can but you know the very best thing is that we live as close to nature as possible.  We just have as few electronics at night in our energy field as possible and we’re looking at blue light as little as possible.  You could go to the links that Ryan and Teddy have.  I just had dinner with them on Friday night, and the things that they have done to help Ryder, I mean, he still has the tumor but they rested the growth of it and it isn’t growing.  They were able to get out of some of the chemotherapy that the doctors wanted for him.  The things that they’ve done have been nothing sort of heroic.  I’m not sure but most people are going to put the red lights spectrum to kind of go the other direction and compensate for the blue light, but you can do that if you want. 

I think if we’re really getting back to nature and we’re getting back to normal circadian rhythms and the normal biorhythms of the earth.  We want to just think, “What did our ancestors do?”  What were our great grandparents doing?  Because there wasn’t insomnia back then.  There wasn’t ADD, there was very little autism.  Our grandparents didn’t even know the word autism.  Now, we all know lots of autistic kids.  I know a pediatrician who was told when they were in medical school, “You’ll see this a couple of times in your career.”  That’s how fast this whole autism thing has come on but I think it can be simpler than that.  I don’t think we necessarily have to go retrofit our house with the red lights at night.  What we can do though is leave the lights off.  I’m not saying you have to light up a candle either.  Most people are going to be just fine with turning the lamp next to your bed and reading a book as your mind and your neurological system shut down for the night.  I do not find it difficult to go to sleep after watching TV on my wall in front of my bed, that’s 12 feet away.  But if I sit there and look at my phone until I go to bed, I can’t go to sleep.  You got to know yourself.


[00:58:19]  Ashley James:  Yeah, exactly.  When I first heard about blue-blocking glasses, I really thought it was a total first.  So, the guest that I’d hunt on who sold them said, “Well, let me send you a pair.” I had them on for a totally different reason, nothing to do with blue-blocking.  We just kind of got on the subject and he said, “Let me send you a pair.” And I’m like, “Yeah, whatever.”  I put them on when the sun sets and by 9 at night, I could not keep my eyes open.  I’m like, “Okay, I’m going to bed.” Like I was exhausted, my body was like out.  That was such a big difference because I’m one of those night owls.  I can just be up until 2:00 in the morning and what happens is if we stay up past 10:00, our body gets the second wind.  The brain goes “Okay, I guess we got to stay up.  Stop making melatonin, okay?  Start making some stress hormones.  Let’s stay awake.  Let’s push through and just pull up all night.”

That’s why then if we’re watching TV until 11:00, a lot of people then really have problems falling asleep, and then they don’t have deep quality sleep.  So, wearing the blue-blocking glasses or putting the apps on your phone that block or lower the blue light can make a really big difference to melatonin production.  This is all in the realm of our devices which we’ve only have on this one generation.  Our parents didn’t grow up with these.  I didn’t have a cellphone until I was 19 and that was pretty early on to have a cellphone at ‘99.  But I didn’t have a smartphone until 2010, I think?  It’s really recent.  We have to remember what life was like 30 years ago.  The technology has completely changed our habits and these habits have led to poor health, and so, we need to come back to nature.  We talked about 5G, light bulbs, SMART meters, making sure that we don’t have dirty electricity coming out of our outlets.  Is there anything else about EMF that we want to be aware of?


[01:00:30]  Robyn Openshaw:  I think one subject that we should touch on is that most of us are in contact with earth like we were for thousands of years.  So, if you’re having a stressful day and there’s a lot of negative energy going on, maybe you have some problems with a colleague, or your boss or some partner that you work with or in your own personal life. 

A lot of times we can feel a lot better by going outside and getting as much of your body in contact with the earth as possible.  Or you can hug a tree, that might sound like very tree hugger but here’s the thing, when we do that, we are in contact with a very high-frequency source and we’re going to discharge electrons we don’t need and protons onto the ground and we’re going to pick up others that we do need.  The body knows.  Your molecules know what atoms they need.  So, you’re going to be able to ground yourself, most people aren’t doing that.  They don’t ground themselves at all.  If you get off on an airplane and you get to your hotel and you feel sort of fragmented, or like Ashley was talking about, how she can tell when the WIFI is on and when it’s not because she just feels kind of unsettled or wired.  I’m sort of putting my own words on it, but if you get off on an airplane and you feel like that you’re not alone, lots of people feel like that and it’s that exposure to radiation. 

Take your shoes off on the airplane and put with your socks on the floor of the airplane, that’ll help a little bit.  And then, when you get to your hotel or to your friend’s house or wherever you’re going, go outside and sit on the ground for 5 minutes.  It is absolutely amazing, especially if it’s a sunny day and you can go outside and put your hands, your legs, and your feet, just sit on the ground or lie on the ground if it’s appropriate.  On dirt, on the sand, if it’s a beach, on the grass even better, just lie on the ground.  You’re going to be discharging a lot of dirty, chaotic energies and you’re going to be picking up electrons that you need but also if you’re lying there in the sun, guess what? You are an electrical being and you are charging in the sun, you are picking up energies that you need doing that.  If you drink a glass of water before you go outside to do that, even better. 

Now, your electrical system can work better because it’s hydrated.  We know that the electrical system needs water to be conductive.  Don’t take your cellphone with you rather than go outside with your cellphones in the grass, leave it, get away from the house.  These are the kind of simple things that we can do and it gives us back what we used to have.  We are talking about circadian rhythms and what our ancestors used to go back before there were all these people complaining of brain fog, ADD and we have all these sensory processing disorders.  Let’s just go back to basics and maybe that doesn’t solve every problem that you’ve ever had to go out and ground yourself, but I do it every single day that I get the chance during the spring, summer and fall.  That’s probably something that I would want to mention.  That’s really simple that we all forget to do.  If you’re not in contact with the earth, at least get in the sun. 


[01:03:58]  Ashley James: I like this idea of earthing.  I had an HPAT talked about it and she recommends everyone have a grounding mat.  So, my husband built one.  He’s very hands-on, he went online, looked up some guides, went to home depot and bought all these materials and he built a grounding mat.  This guide said you can put the metal rod in the earth and have the copper wire coming from the rod all the way through.  You have to move your screen and your window to have a come through and then, come into the metal mat that you’ll put at the base of your bed so your feet are on the metal mat.  Or if you’re on an apartment or too far away from a window, you could plug it into the grounding part of the outlet.  So, my husband didn’t tell me he did this which is a great double-blind study for our bedroom because I didn’t know what’s going on.  I knew he was building but I didn’t know that he had actually plugged it into the grounding outlet and put it on our bed.  I was lying there the entire night.  I could not sleep.  I felt like I had drink coffee all day long and I was so upset.


[01:05:19]  Robyn Openshaw:   Okay, let me say something about that because my legs tingled the whole time when I had a grounding mat on my bed and I did not notice at that time, but now I do.  But you have to filter the electricity in your bedroom first. 


[01:05:32] Ashley James:  Right.  That’s why I’m getting that.  He plugged it into the ground and thinking that was safe, but if you have dirty electricity in your bedroom, it’s just amplifying it.  And so, I felt horrible and I was like, “What did you do to me?  This is torture.”  So, the next night he plugged it outside and it was a much different experience.  There wasn’t any agitation but it energized me so it was a different feeling.  It was a different feeling having it plugged outside.  We decided it wasn’t best to be in our bedroom probably because of what you’re saying.  We need to clean up the energy or electricity in our bedroom.  We ended up plugging it and putting it on the sofa in the living room, but we found that and of course, we couldn’t just go outside and freaking sat in the ground.  We had to create some kind of way to ground inside for fun just to experiment with it.  I noticed every time I sat on it, I was energized and I felt clear-headed.


[01:06:31]  Robyn Openshaw:  That’s good. 


[01:06:32]  Ashley James:  I just felt more energized and more clear-headed which was really interesting but I could have probably had the same wonderful benefits if I just went and lay down on the backyard, but I loved that concepts of grounding that we are releasing these electrons.  We’re releasing those extra electrons and we’re connecting with the energy that our body needs.  That makes so much sense. 


[01:06:59]  Robyn Openshaw:  Yeah.  And everyone should have if they’re going to make an investment in ongoing testing.  Don’t buy an infrared sauna unless you know it’s low EMF.  It’s one of the things that you’re going to consider.  Different things in the future, to tell you one more thing, make sure you have a TriField Meter and a Greenwave Meter, they’re doing two different things and we linked you to them in the free guide.  One more time, it’s at learntruehealth.com/emf.   But I linked you to the meter that I liked for testing hotspots so you can test, “What’s my home office like?  What’s my bedroom like in an area?  Or what’s the inside of my infrared sauna-like?  Or near my son’s gaming system when it’s plugged in?  What’s that like?”  But then, the other one is the one that you plugged into the wall and so we linked you to that.  Those are two very important things so that you’re not just guessing, okay?  You need to know where are the risk factors in your home.  And you know, if your refrigerator is emitting then that doesn’t mean you’re going to get rid of your refrigerator.  Just make sure you don’t stand by your refrigerator necessarily all the time. 


[01:08:07]  Ashley James:   Well, they emit through WIFI, so we turn off the WIFI or maybe there’s a way to turn it off?  To opt off the emitting either the Bluetooth or the WIFI, whatever it’s emitting, maybe there’s a way to turn it off?  But if you’re turning off, hopefully turning off its WIFI, it could lower that.  Now, what about these devices that we’ve seen people buy?  They put on the back their cellphone or put on their laptops to help lower EMF?


[01:08:39]  Robyn Openshaw:  I linked you to the one that I like and it’s not actually lowering down EMF, it’s protecting human cells from chaotic frequencies.  It’s a patent device and this is one of the really simple and inexpensive solutions and I keep some in my purse, a 5 pack.   We have negotiated a 40% discount so it’s like 5 of them for 60 bucks.  It’s a really inexpensive fix and you put it on your device and what it is?  It’s 3 layers of paramagnetic materials.  We have crystalline structures in our pineal gland and so, for instance, homing pigeons, hawk and whales that can travel thousands of miles to get back home.  They are grounding these crystalline structures and what these paramagnetic materials are doing is protecting human cells from chaotic radiations.  It’s not getting in the way of signal, it’s not decreasing the actual emissions but putting one of this on your devices is not the only thing that we are talking about today but it’s one of the easiest things and it’s my first priority.   I carry them in my purse so that if I meet a child who’s carrying a cellphone, I put it on there.   I don’t ask their parents for any money for it.   I just put it on their child’s cellphone because I’ve tested this.   I’ve done this in one of my followers and was like, “Green Smoothie Girl did this. “ We actually had a living house plant with the same phone next to the house plant.  One of them protected by this device which is called the xZubi device on the cellphone, one of them unprotected and the unprotected phone killed the house plant.  We’ve actually done this little experiment multiple times.  

The first time I did it was with one of my kids for a science fair project and this made it very visual so the other kids would see, “No, you don’t want to carry your cellphone while it’s transmitting in your pocket all day, every day.”  I wish every kid in America knew this and the reason I’ll stick it on the cellphone of a child I barely know.  First of all, I’ll explain to them what I’m doing and I’ll muscle test them and some people say all muscle testing isn’t real but I think your audience can understand kinesiology a little bit and how there are certain things that affect our overall energy.   I have to blind-tested many people who don’t even know what I’m doing to their cellphone as being very strong when their cellphone is not in their energy fields, and then, I put their cellphones in their other hand and all of the sudden they’re completely weak.   Their arm just collapses with very light pressure from me.  Their arm just collapses against their body and then when I put the xZubi on this device, they don’t know that I’ve done it.  They don’t know I put anything on their cellphone.  They’re strong again.  I did that many times, always blind, never told the person what I was doing, never let them see that I was doing something to their phone.   It just worked every single time.  

So, I became a believer in that patented technology that’s FCC tested and Independent lab shows that it protects human brain cells and human living cells 84 to 100 percent from the effects of these chaotic frequencies.  What I’m really concerned about is children because their brains are more exposed than ours are.   We get a harder skull, a thicker skull as we get older but children’s organs and brain matter are so very exposed.  The younger, the more vulnerable.   So, finding out where that SMART meter is on your place, I’m going to follow up with you, Ashley.   I’m going to ask what you learned.   I’m not worried about you because you’re going to protect your kid.   You’re a total mama bear but if that SMART meter is right outside your child’s room, your child is more vulnerable than you are.  We are seeing a meteoric rise in childhood brain cancer and I have to wonder if the exposure to radiation is one of the reasons. 


[01:12:44]  Ashley James:  Or combination like Dr. Klinghardt says, “The heavy metals from the glyphosate,” because glyphosate is the key that binds the heavy metals in the soil and heavy metals in our body.   Heavy metals wherever it comes in to contact with and it will release heavy metals when it changes PH.  So, when it changes from the blood to the cerebral spinal fluid, it releases.  It lets go of the mercury, lets go of the aluminum, lets go of whatever it’s holding on to the heavy metal and same with the kidneys when blood becomes urine and that’s why glyphosate deposits the heavy metals into the brain and into the kidneys.  And then, we’ve got the tri-effect there, we have more heavy metals in our brain than we did 30 years ago because our food supplies contaminated with glyphosate, and on top of that, we have the high EMFs’ coming in that we didn’t have 30 years ago.  We didn’t have this level on these devices and then that’s vibrating the heavy metals.  It’s a perfect storm we’re seeing and it is so sad to see that the childhood cancers, like brain cancers going through the roof and that in one generation we’ve gone from I think 1 in 10 thousand autistic children on the spectrum to 1 in 40? I think I’ve heard it’s the latest number?  It’s not because we weren’t diagnosing them correctly back then, that’s absolutely a complete smoke screen. 

We have a problem and it happened in one generation and we need to figure out what the heck is going on?  And I know we feel very disempowered when we think of the big industries.   Who am I to stop 5G? That kind of thing.  We feel really powerless but where we are empowered is the list that you’ve given us because it’s up to us individually to put xZubi on our devices, to turn off our WIFI and put our phone in airplane mode and just go down the list that you gave us.  One piece at a time, we can lower our exposures as much as possible.  If we live near Chernobyl or if we live near Fukushima a few years ago, we’d be taking measures, right? Because we know that there’s radiation happening to us, right? So, if you live near known radiation, you do something about it.  But there’s radiation happening, it’s a different form and it’s supposedly safe but we’re way overexposed. 

We need to just do everything we can to mitigate.   If we’re cleaning up our diet, and we’re cleaning up our emotional mental health and we’re choosing to make all these healthy habits then, this is just one healthy habit that’s going to help us energetically and physically move in the direction of the best health possible.   I’m really excited that you came today and you shared everything that you’re sharing.   To complete our interview, are there any stories of success you want to leave us?  I know you get so much great feedback, you have a wonderful podcast, amazing website and all the links to everything The Robyn Openshaw that’s going to be on the show on today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com.   Are there any stories of success since you have been educating us and educating your listeners and all the followers that you have on EMF?   Have you received any really great stories of success where you’re seeing that it’s making a difference?


[01:16:18]  Robyn Openshaw:  Yeah, I mean there’s the fact that I can sleep again.  There’s the fact that my son could focus in school again but we also just get stories all the time about how these very simple, small actions that people are taking, following the EMF action plan or jumping in to the video masterclass that I did with Dr. Libby Darnell and just putting these actions into place results in a lot of peace of mind but also energy gains.  It’s probably the most common thing that we’ve been told, is usually people would go to links of making these changes if they are suffering in some way, but it’s like a side benefit even if it’s not the thing that they were looking for by reducing the EMF in their energy field, in their home, in their work environment that they gain more energy.  So, I should mention that you said if we live near Chernobyl, we would take major action.  The thing is when Chernobyl happened, nobody knew yet what was going to be the consequence of it and when Fukushima happened, we didn’t know what was going to be the consequence of it.  If we knew when the Chernobyl disaster happened, what we knew 20 years later?  We would move.  

We would do anything in our power to get our children and ourselves, but we would get our families as far from Chernobyl as possible at any cost.  But you know?  Joe Mercola has said that he believes that the EMF proliferation, the massive high chaotic frequencies in our environment is the new second-hand smoking.  He believes that we will look back 20 years from now and we will see the amount of unmitigated EMF in our environment as more dangerous than we now look back and see second-hand smoking because you’re too young actually to have been there and been in restaurants.  I was a waitress, I put myself to college waitressing in the smoking section in a restaurant.  I sat on airplanes with smokers.  It’s unthinkable to millennials.  They’ve never seen people smoking in a public place but I would choose the smoking section over the others because smokers drink and drinkers tipped.  Here’s a thing, let’s don’t wait 20 years from now when they’re saying, “Well, that’s what happens to brain cancer because we didn’t do anything about EMF.  Or that’s what happens to all neurological diseases.  Is it 10X?” We’re already are seeing it, we already seeing the early signs, let’s mitigate it now.  If you’re going to do this, you’re going to be one in a thousand that’s even doing anything about it for their health.  Let’s get ahead of that curve because I really don’t think the effects of all these radiations are going to be good. 


[01:19:10]  Ashley James:  Our friends, our family might think we’re crazy.  They’re not on the bandwagon yet.  We’re early adopters and those who are listening are also early adopters and one day, they will all wake up and realize that we were right.  So, let’s be the early adopters.  I’d rather be the early adopter and be called crazy but be in better health because of it than be a sheeple and wait to get poisoned with everyone.  I like to say this on the show if you’ll look at the statistics, the cancer rates are almost a 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 between men and women are expected to have a cancer diagnosis in their lifetime now.  That 1 in 3 people is prediabetic.  That 70% of the adult population is on at least one prescription medication, heart disease is one of the leading causes of death.  It just goes on and on.  If you want to live like a statistic, if you want the end of your life to be a statistic, live like everyone else, eat what everyone else is eating and do what everyone else is doing.  Follow along with the mainstream media advice of health and do exactly what the majority of people are doing and you are going to end up like a statistic, of course, no one listening wants to be a statistic.  

We want to beat the odds, we want to all life to be hundred and jogging, running marathons at a hundred and five.  We want to be absolute optimal health.  We have to be the naysayer.  We have to go against the crowd.   We have to be early adaptors and we have to do exactly the opposite of what the majority of people are doing in order to not be a statistic and this is a key component to that.  So, thank you, Robyn, for coming on the show today and sharing with us some major health advice.   Go to learntruehealth.com/emf to get Robyn’s free guide.   I’m really excited to hear back from the listeners, to know what you think.  Please comment in the Facebook group, Learn True Health Facebook group and let us know what you think about this as you implement Robyn’s actionable steps to lowering your EMF.  Robyn, thank you so much for coming on the show again.  I can’t wait to have you back when you’re ready to share with us how to mitigate 5G when it starts to infiltrate our neighborhoods.  


[01:21:33]  Robyn Openshaw:  Yeah, it’s my pleasure and it’s an honor to speak to you and to your audience, Ashley.  Thanks for having me. 


[01:21:39]  Ashley James:  Hello, true health seeker.  Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition and how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity? Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can outgrow their own business? Support people in their success? Do you love helping people? You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach.  I highly recommend checking out the Institute for Integrated Nutrition.  I just spent the last year in their health coaching certification program and it really blew me away.  It was so amazing.  I learned over a hundred dietary theories.  I learned all about nutrition.  But if from the standpoint of how we can help people to shift their lives and shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health, I definitely recommend you check them out.  You can google Institute for Integrated Nutrition or INN and give them a call or you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training to check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in.  Be sure to mention my name Ashley James in the Learn True Health Podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible.  I highly recommend checking it out.  It really changed my life to be in their program and I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information.  

We need more health coaches.  In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field.  So many health coaches are getting in and helping people because you can work in care practical offices, doctor’s offices.  You can work in hospitals, you can work online through Skype and help people around the world.  You can become an author and go into the school system and help your local schools, shift their programs to help children be healthier.  You can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success and their health goals.  There are so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach.  So, check out the INN.  Check out the Institute for Integrated Nutrition, mention my name, get the best deal.   Give them a call and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you.  Classes are starting soon.  The next round of classes is starting at the end of the month.  So, you’re going to want to call them now and check it out and if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach?  Please, tell them about it. 

Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.  Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price?  For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone what supplements are best for you?  Go to takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic True Health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price.  That’s takeyoursupplements.com.  Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program. 

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Catharine Arnston And Ashley James

In this podcast, you will discover the truths about the nutrient-dense algae Spirulina and Chlorella which would help debunk myths about them. Find out why these algae could be the answer to the world’s problem with food crisis.


[00:00:03] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health Podcast! I’m your host Ashley James. This is episode 357. I am so excited about today’s interview. We’re back on the show. Catharine Arnston was the founder of Energybits. We’ve had her on the show for three episodes before. So…here’s your fourth episode with us.


[00:00:27] Catharine Arnston: [laughing]


[00:00:28] Ashley James: Welcome back!


[00:00:28] Catharine Arnston: I’m a … frequent flyer with Ashley James. [laughs]


[00:00:31] Ashley James: Yes, you are. Frequent flyer for sure. Catherine was on episode 234, 265, and 266. I highly recommend going back and listening to those episodes to dive deeper into this topic because we’ve talked about how Chlorella and Spirulina, how these crops are made, the science, the safety studies behind it as a food source, the nutrient values of it, why they’re so beneficial in terms of how they work to detoxify the body and provide really readily available protein. Also, we talked about things like Vitamin K2. We dived into so many topics in those first three interviews. Today we want to do some major debunking [laughs].


[00:01:16] Catharine Arnston: [laughs]


[00:01:17] Ashley James: I’m so glad you came back on the show for this specifically. Dr. Andrew Weil who’s quite famous in the holistic health space and I really value a lot of the things he’s brought to the space.


[00:01:28] Catharine Arnston: Yes. We have a lot of respect for him.


[00:01:30] Ashley James: We do. We have a lot of respect for his work and in no way is this going to be bashing anyone. If you’re regulars, you know that I don’t do kind of fearmongering and bashing of other people. But we have to understand that when someone writes a very negative article about something, it does cause hysteria. And so, after he wrote an article about the dangers of toxic Chlorella and toxic algae and you don’t want to eat it because it’s so dangerous, there are so many toxins in it, and he kind of got people in the panic. And since algae in general, Chlorella and Spirulina, has been seen many years as a superfood, also now, people are afraid and I got a few emails, a few Facebook messages of listeners going… “You’ve been telling me that Chlorella’s been really healthy and now Andrew Weil saying it’s not, who do I believe?”

You know I’m really afraid and so I reached out to Catharine because of course you are a great expert in this field and Catharine said “Thank you for reaching out. Here’s all the research that proves that … his article is flawed. We were just discussing before I hit “record” is that I personally know a lot of heavy hitters in this whole holistic health space. People like, for example, Dr. Mercola. These people who write all the time and we think every article comes right from the doctor themselves but…


[00:03:01] Catharine Arnston: But… [laughs]


[00:03:02] Ashley James: But… [laughs]


[00:03:04] Catharine Arnston:   Not so… [laughs]


[00:03:04] Ashley James: The truth is most doctors, they have blogs, write articles, they are not actually the person writing, they have a whole team of people that they hire to be writers, to create content so that they can have more clicks and get more (you know) make more money and  seems like likely he had his writers do this whole article that is kind of set the whole holistic world in a  frenzy and like you said, you saw that recently, Andrew Weil posted another post about the benefits of algae, so he’s contradicting himself…


[00:03:39] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:03:39] Ashley James: …which just goes to show he has a team of writers, they’re all coming up with their own stuff ‘cos they have to create click baits so they want to put fear in you by making this like, “Oh, the dangers of algae and watch out and there are toxins in it and so then you click on it through his newsletter, through whatever you saw on Facebook and it gets the clicks


[00:03:56] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:03:55] Ashley James: Now he’s talking about the benefits of algae and they totally contradict each other. Catherine, I love that you are grounded in science. You have so many PubMed studies that you’re going to give us, all the links in those studies are going to be in the show in today’s podcast learntruehealth.com, everyone is going to be able to go and see the actual research. But you’re here to debunk it so first of all, for those who’ve never read the article that Dr. Andrew Weil or his staff wrote about toxins in algae, could you please illustrate what that article says and then what’s the actual truth?


[00:04:33] Catharine Arnston: Yeah. Well, as you said, I also have a lot of respect for Dr. Weil, and he was one of the first out there in holistic health, natural health but you have to realize that he runs a business enterprise and then this article where he is writing quite inflammatory comments about Spirulina and Chlorella that are incorrect, he also directs you to purchase his products to get the nutrients that would be found naturally in algae. You have to realize that everybody’s got something to sell you, so you have to read between the lines, obviously, I’m also selling algae and I’d like you to buy ours nonetheless…

His article was about the fact that there are toxins and there’s two terms that are often used: one is “mycotoxins“, neurotoxins, and something like called BMAA and they’re basically all toxins so, in the article where he said there were toxins in Spirulina, he was referring to a study that was done on an island in the Polynesian area, what they had done was they found that there were, the natives in this small island, a lot of them were having mental health issues and it turns out they were eating seeds from a particular plant and then they found out that there were Spirulina growing in the roots of the soil of these plants and so what they did was they tested the seeds of the plants. They did not test Spirulina. They did not test anything to do with Spirulina. They tested the seeds in the plants. And found that there were micro neurotoxins in the seeds. And from that, they made a huge leap of assumptions which in the scientific world, you can’t connect the dots here. Neurotoxins came from the Spirulina… well, actually, it wasn’t even Spirulina growing in the soil. It was blue-green algae.

Now, you have to realize, algae are like a category, a food category. Just like you have fruits and within fruits you have bananas and apples or you have vegetables, you have Kale and broccoli, so algae is of huge category, and within that you have four sub-categories, you have red algae and brown algae which are basically both seaweeds and then you have blue-green algae and green algae. One of the blue-green algae of probably 25, 000 out there, one of them is Spirulina. And one of the green algae is Chlorella. Now the reason why we sell  Spirulina  and Chlorella  and why these are the two that you’ll pretty much see for sale in health food stores is because they’re really the only two safe ones that you can eat without having any toxins of any kind and they’re harvested, they’re grown in freshwater just like maybe tomatoes, it’s called hydroponics. They’re cultivated crop and ours, we pride ourselves because I spent years trying to find the safest, purest company that would grow it for us. We grow it in freshwater tanks, triple-filtered mountain spring water, water’s tested every day, and we put binders when we dry them and we do [inaudible]… anyways, all of which is to say is that, to claim that toxins in any kind of Spirulina which is just one of many blue-green algae are  the equivalent of saying that you tested some water in the swamp and the water was poisonous so therefore don’t drink water.


[00:08:18] Ashley James: [laughing]


[00:08:19] Catharine Arnston: That’s how ridiculous the huge expanse of connecting the dots is. They were testing blue-green algae that existed in the soil in the roots of these plants, but they didn’t test the blue-green algae and it wasn’t Spirulina either, it was just a blue-green alga. And what I point out to people is that any algae whether it’s blue-green, green, doesn’t matter what it is, if it’s grown in a swamp, if it’s grown in the ocean, if it’s grown wild, in soils, it will be toxic. Just like you can’t drink water from the swamp or from your toilet or from a river if it’s near a polluted area. It is going to be polluted. Algae absorb whatever’s in the water so if you test something and any test that you see… any research if they’ve tested it and the algae are grown in any of the above swamps, ocean, polluted areas, yes, it will have toxins. Just like if you take a glass of water from the swamp, it will be toxic as well.

So, two things here, not only did they not use or test [inaudible 00:09:38] three things, they did not test Spirulina which is a specific strain, so that’s number one. And here is making this huge assumption that Spirulina’s at fault – it was not. It was some kind of blue-green algae but not Spirulina, number one. Number two, it wasn’t harvested blue-green algae, it was the equivalent of growing in the swamp and number three, they didn’t test the algae. They tested the seeds that were in the plants that the people were eating [laughs]


[00:10:08] Ashley James: The study that they did, was the conclusion that algae or Spirulina was dangerous or was it the conclusion of Andrew Weil’s writers?


[00:10:20] Catharine Arnston: Well, even in the study they indicated that there’s still a lot of uncertainty but his writers forgot to mention that or didn’t see it, because in so many studies, they’re quite long and they’re very scientific so it can be, maybe, buried, so that’s one thing, and as I mentioned, then he came out with another post that says I’m writing directly from the post now, he says “note however that Spirulina, a common variety of blue-green algae does not produce neurotoxins and was given a favorable safety rating after an extensive review by the United States pharmacology, pharmacopeia dietary supplements information expert committee in 2010 [laughs].


[00:11:12] Ashley James: So that’s a different post?


[00:11:14] Catharine Arnston: Completely different post from the same person. In one, he’s saying that that the writers used flawed science because they didn’t test Spirulina. They just tested the seeds from a plant that had blue-green algae growing in toxic soil [laughs]. It was a wrong assumption anyways and he completely reversed his position in another post. So that’s just stuff that he has used. I will provide you and your readers with additional PubMed documents. There’s one that says, from a couple of years ago, they studied to see if there was BMAA which is a neurotoxin. At this time, I believe they did study Spirulina and they concluded that there wasn’t any in there. And in fact, I reached out to the company, the lab that did the studies for this PubMed article and I’m hopefully going to be retaining them to specifically study our Spirulina and Chlorella, ours specifically Energy Bits and Recovery Bits to prove that there aren’t any in ours. This is a very complicated study and the second lab I found in the entire world that has the capability of detecting what’s called BMAA. And there’s another study that I have that I will share with you, where [I think 00:12:50] this is a number of years ago. They did samples again of blue-green algae, not Spirulina and definitely not Chlorella and they pulled them out of the Klamath Lake and the conclusions were… they did lab tests of the water in the lake and they found that there were toxins and neurotoxins in the lake and therefore any samples that came from the Klamath Lake… of the algae… also had toxins in them. But any algae that were grown agriculturally under pure growing conditions like ours did not. Do you start to see a pattern here?


[00:13:31] Ashley James: Right.


[00:13:31] Catharine Arnston: Anything that’s growing wild, you hear about the algae blooms and the toxins… Anything algae that are growing in the ocean, in the lake, in the swamp, anywhere other than closely monitored, carefully harvested in freshwater tanks like ours are, in clean water, will have toxins for sure. Just like if you pull a glass of water out of a dirty river, or a swamp or some polluted area there will be toxins in that too. Compare that to clean… reverse osmosis, or whatever source of water you have. You can’t just throw literally the baby out with the bathwater and say “Oh, we tested the swampy water and found toxins so you shouldn’t drink water.” That’s effectively what they’re saying.


[00:14:27] Ashley James: [laughs]


[00:14:28] Catharine Arnston: I mean, it’s almost ridiculous when you think about it but I don’t want to come down too hard on them because I will tell you: there are very few people in the world and definitely in America that understand algae and have studied algae as much as I have. And I did that because… your listeners know already if they’ve heard any of my previous podcast interviews with you or read anything about me, I wasn’t planning on building a company.

Ten years ago, my younger sister had breast cancer, her oncologist told her to change her diet to an alkaline diet. I helped her research what foods that were because of the phytonutrients and the chlorophyll that builds your immune system. She changed her diet. She went through chemo. She completely healed. I started learning about plant-based nutrition ten years ago when nobody was talking about it and decided it was very powerful, very compelling research and that I was going to try help people eat more plants and then I found out that people don’t want to work that hard, know their vegetables and so that when I discovered algae which is the most alkaline plant in the world and a multi-billion dollar industry in Asia and completely either misunderstood or completely just not known in America. I decided I would spend the rest of my life helping people understand algae and why it’s probably the safest, purest food that you can put in your body. People are very confused with algae or don’t know it and don’t know who to trust…

[00:15:58] Ashley James: Yeah.


[00:15:59] Catharine Arnston: And I want to build a big company so that we can have a positive impact in the world and help people around the world get access to algae because even United Nations says it’s the answer to world hunger and so endorses it. I don’t know if I mentioned earlier but even in January of this year, the United States government, the White House, and the Congress passed the very first Algae Agricultural Act because even they understood now that algae are the most nutrient-dense food in the world. It’s the most sustainable crop in the world and it’s all grown in Asia. So now, they’re trying to encourage farmers here to grow it by providing grants and subsidies. Everyone knows we’re going to have a problem providing proper food for the world and we have a problem already in America with our agricultural processes and basically there are no minerals left in the soil and using glyphosate is killing the soil and us, so we need better alternatives and algae is the answer. Algae is truly the answer. I am determined to help people understand this and who to trust what to read, how to understand the differences between the two of them and slowly more and more people will understand algae and it won’t be so weird and won’t be so confusing.


[00:17:18] Ashley James: [laughing]


[00:17:19] Catharine Arnston: You got to start somewhere. But it is upsetting to me because I know so much to have an article like with Dr. Weil published and I’m sure he didn’t even see it. But to have it published with incorrect information and to frighten people unnecessarily, I’m so happy that we can set the records straight. I can provide you and your listeners with the actual scientific documents. They can read them for themselves and they’ll come to the same conclusions that I did that there was a huge massive assumption that is basically flawed science. It’s very flawed so it’s wrong [laughs].


[00:18:03] Ashley James: I was very fascinated to hear in our first interview when you said that algae are the most studied food on the planet. That I believe you said that there were a hundred thousand studies combined – 60,000 of them studying Spirulina and by 40,000 studying Chlorella and that it’s been proven to be safe over the last fifty, sixty years. Right?


[00:18:31] Catharine Arnston: Over and over again. Well, in fact, I’m glad you mentioned this. I was invited two weeks ago to speak at a global algae conference.


[00:18:46] Ashley James: [laughing]


[00:18:46] Catharine Arnston: The company that put it on held algae research conferences in Europe for 8 years. And this is the first time they did one in America.


[00:18:53] Ashley James: That’s cool.


[00:18:57] Catharine Arnston: I was asked to speak on how to educate consumers of [inaudible 00:19:01] algae which is what I basically do all the time. When I was at the conference and I gave my talk, before I spoke, I asked everybody in the room to raise their hands if they were either a scientist, an agriculturist, an engineer, a production person… basically on the science side of algae. 99% of the hands went up. This is what happens all around the world. All this knowledge about science has stayed within the scientific community for the last 50 years. Scientists like to talk to other scientists. There’s no shortage of research and data and PubMed – whether it’s about athletic benefits or inflammation reduction or helping with brain functioning or reducing anything – whether it is blood pressure or heart disease, the science is all there.

Nobody [laughs], until me that I am aware of, has been able to dig in to the science and I probably read 2,000 reports at this point and tried to capture the key, sort of takeaways, and rewrite it so that the average consumer, or even practitioners… we were [inaudible 00:20:27] with chiropractors, doctors, functional medicine. They have to know a lot of stuff. Even they don’t have the time to really dig through the science and so I’m helping them get sort of the overview of why this stuff works and then if they want to learn more, I can give them the science. I’m the first person to be able to do that for people. It’s my pride and joy because I love science and I love helping people. I also do it visually. I design all of our packaging and all of our materials. I want people not to be afraid of algae, to understand that it is a remarkable plant that’s a gift from Mother Nature herself and the first life on earth 4 billion years ago. It’s something that has been here 4 billion years longer than we have and it’s still here. I feel that my path in life is to help people understand algae, why it’s good for them, why we need it and help them to understand, how to read between the lines when they see something like Dr. Weil writing about it and casting some confusion in the process.


[00:21:39] Ashley James: It also teaches us to not to be reactionary when we read one headline…


[00:21:45] Catharine Arnston: Right.


[00:21:45] Ashley James: …or one article. Or one article that states one study. We need to go deeper instead of having that immediate reaction of fear because that’s what the writer wanted us to have.


[00:21:56] Catharine Arnston: Exactly.


[00:21:56] Ashley James: They wanted us to… like you said that article then sells supplements. What they’re trying to do is get all the people that buy algae for their supplements, stop them from doing that and buy theirs instead.


[00:22:09] Catharine Arnston: Right.


[00:22:09] Ashley James: It’s a clickbait. Looking now at what you’ve said, it’s even more clear to me that Dr. Weil didn’t write that article because when he does do something, it’s thorough and it’s enlightened. I can definitely that this is just one of those circumstances where the writer of some big doctor has created further myths in the health world. Thank you for clearing up those myths.


[00:22:34] Catharine Arnston: Yeah. I wouldn’t fault him because he’s such a big guy and he has a magazine. He’s got a whole true food. I don’t know if you know: he runs, he’s a co-owner of True Food restaurants in the California area. He’s a busy guy. It’s no different than getting angry with your local doctor for not being able to do heart surgery. Algae is a specialty. There are so few people that understand it and can explain it as I can, not to pat myself on the back, but I’m doing this really as public service almost. He doesn’t have the time to devote algae… ultimate irony like in the next few years. He’s third selling [laughs] Spirulina or Chlorella.


[00:23:17] Ashley James: I bet.


[00:23:19] Catharine Arnston: That would be like touché. Right? [laughs]


[00:23:20] Ashley James: Right. [laughs]


[00:23:22] Catharine Arnston: Proof that the was wrong. [laughs]


[00:23:25] Ashley James: I got into Chlorella when I had Dr. Klinghardt on the show and we’ve talked about this in past interviews so we’re not going to get too into it.  But for those who haven’t listened to your other three interviews with me. When I got Dr. Klinghardt on the show, he’s been a doctor for forty years and he’s helped reverse autism and reverse cancer and autoimmune disease and things that people often go to miss the absolute last resort and they’ve been very sick. I’ve been to his clinic and I met the people fly in from around the world. His clinic is only ten or fifteen minutes away from where I live but people fly in around the world so I’ve been there a few times then I’ve got to meet the people that fly in for all kinds of conditions and one of the first things he has people do is start eating Chlorella immediately. Most of his protocols for most diseases is to eat Chlorella.


[00:24:19] Catharine Arnston: Right.


[00:24:21] Ashley James: 30 to 40 bits at a time. For those who’ve never had energy bits: they’re like the size of M&Ms, like…


[00:24:33] Catharine Arnston: Baby aspirin.


[00:24:34] Ashley James: Baby aspirin. I think the last time I said they’re like little aspirins, but I don’t want people to think that they’re pills that you swallow. It’s more like chewing.


[00:24:43] Catharine Arnston: Right. Yeah.


[00:24:44] Ashley James: It’s like if M&Ms were green and healthy for you, right?


[00:24:48] Catharine Arnston: Right.


[00:24:48] Ashley James: [laughs] I started off by… because I haven’t discovered you yet… I tried a different brand, one that Dr. Klinghardt I think partially owns, he was like “This one’s the best!” Right?


[00:25:04] Catharine Arnston: [laughs]


[00:25:06] Ashley James: I couldn’t stand up the flavor. It was fishy to me. I really didn’t like the flavor, but I wanted the health benefits, so I was doing different things to try to make it taste good. And then you and I met digitally, virtually online. I tried Energybits. You have Chlorella and Spirulina. Your Energybits are the Spirulina, your Recoverybits. Energybits.com is the website but when someone wants to buy the Chlorella, which I’ll explain in a sec., Chlorella is the Recoverybits. When I tried your Recoverybits, I was really surprised. They tasted good.


[00:25:44] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:25:44] Ashley James: And that they became almost like a… The first few times, I was like “Oh, wow! That was a different flavor. I was expecting not to like it and then I was like, “Wait, this is good.” And then my son, who was a toddler at that time, I think he was two, I was trying to do everything to get veggies into him, loved them and he still does. He loves the game of chewing them and making his tongue turn green. And we stick our tongues out at each other. The Chlorella and your Spirulina both taste really good to me.


[00:26:17] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:26:18] Ashley James: I have friends who make trail mixes out of them and they love to send me the recipe like walnuts and raisins or cran raisins and pistachios, dark chocolate… They send me these different recipes, but they come up with trail mix where they mix the Energybits in and I have friends who told me that they can’t believe it. They have a handful of your Energybits and they not only feel full, they actually [inaudible 00:26:43] more energy. And I noticed it, too. When it’s just yourself noticing something, you’re like “Maybe it’s a [inaudible 00:26:49]. You get five friends and they’re all like “Yes, I really feel it.” The Chlorella, you don’t have to chew them. You can throw them in your blender with water and make a smoothie out of it. Not a big deal if you don’t want to chew something that’s green. But the reason why Dr. Klinghardt tells everyone to do Chlorella every day. It’s that it’s a chelate, it’s a binder.


[00:27:11] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:27:12] Ashley James: It binds to heavy metals like mercury and aluminum. It even binds to toxins and pulls them out of your body.  And when you were talking about how algae act like a sponge, that if you grow algae in swamp water, that the algae are going to be toxic because it’s actually sucking the toxins out of the swamp water…


[00:27:30] Catharine Arnston: Right. [inaudible 00:27:30]


[00:27:33] Ashley James: Is there some sort of a seam mechanism that when we eat them, it sucks…


[00:27:37] Catharine Arnston: No.


[00:27:38] Ashley James: No?


[00:27:39] Catharine Arnston: No. I’m glad you mentioned that. Algae is a plant so it’s absorbing whatever, it’s a living organism, whatever’s in the medium that is in existence, so the medium is water. It’s just absorbing it. The way that it pulls out toxins is quite different. Just to make a distinction, Spirulina and we call ours Energybits is because Spirulina gives you energy. It satisfies your hunger and gets you focused. It has no cellulose wall because technically, it’s a bacterium like I mentioned it gets absorbed really quickly. Chlorella is the only one…Spirulina has a lot of chlorophyll and is used for cleansing, but it is not a detoxer. Chlorella is a detoxing agent, is a chelator because unlike Spirulina, it has no cellulose wall. Chlorella has the hardest cellulose wall in the plant kingdom, so hard that actually it has to be cracked for production or it wouldn’t absorb the nutrients. It’s that hard cellulose wall that attaches to toxins in your body. It doesn’t matter whether it’s lead, mercury, aluminum, alcohol, lactic acid, radiation – it just knows what is inappropriate in your body, and it attaches it and pulls it out of your body. Quite different from when it’s just sitting in the water, it just absorbs as a growing organism absorbs whatever’s in the water but the mechanism by which it pulls out toxins is different. It has nothing to do with the absorption, the attachment to the toxins.

A really important thing to note is that not only Chlorella pulls out toxins because of this attachment capability of its cellular wall, but it also has the highest concentration of chlorophyll in the world. That’s why it’s called Chlorella. It’s got a thousand times more than greens, 25 times more chlorophyll than even liquid chlorophyll. The reason why I want to mention this is because only about 10% of chlorophyll is absorbed in your stomach. The rest of it stays in your entire digestive tract so it travels through your liver and all the way down to your colon. Everything that you’re going to be reading, if you’re not already reading, is all about how you have to maintain the health of your cells, your cell walls, your mitochondria, and your liver. Your liver is where the action starts, and so chlorophyll cleanses all those. It cleanses your liver. Because it’s got this capability to absorb carcinogens and it’s because it’s a fat-based pigment, it’s very cleansing to the cell walls and because chlorophyll is a fat-based pigment, it heals the cell wall.

I tell people “If you don’t have fats in your diet, your cell walls get really brittle and dysfunctional and so they can’t let nutrients in, or toxins out. It’s like having a dirty window because you can’t let the sun in, and you can’t see out. Chlorophyll is effectively like window washers. It’s cleaning your cell walls so that nutrients can get in, and toxins can get out which, of course, facilitates healthy mitochondria. Chlorella has that two punch; it’s got that high-cellulose wall that pulls toxins and it’s got the highest chlorophyll in the world. It also has other wonderful [inaudible 00:31:10] bits that we can talk about, a little bit like K2 which pulls out calcium from your blood vessels and puts it into your bones and prevents heart disease and prevents osteoporosis. It has the highest concentration of RNA and DNA in the world which, as you age, your cells get damaged, so this helps your cells to go back healthier. It’s quite a remarkable plant of the plant kingdom. It’s great that you mentioned that when you tasted Dr. Klinghardt’s and compared it to ours. You’d think that something like algae that are grown in water, it would be the same wherever you grow it but it’s not. It’s like wine.

[00:31:54] Ashley James: [laughing]


[00:31:55] Catharine Arnston: I like Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand. I am very fascinated with my Sauvignon Blancs. I have tried them from Sancerres from Italy, I’ve tried Sauvignon Blancs from California. Nothing matches that fabulous fruity flavor from the Marlborough area in New Zealand. Algae is the same way. In Hawaii, it’s really mild. In India, algae is very pungent like horse manure, the stuff from China, who knows what’s in there, that’s where all the cheap stuff comes from, Japan doesn’t grow Spirulina and we don’t know whether there’s radiation in the water so it really depends on what country you get the algae from and which company is growing it for you, how rigorous their growing mechanisms are. To ensure that you’re getting something that’s really pure, fresh, and clean, and nutrient-dense because there’s also a different strain of algae just like there are different types of beef. We can have Kobe beef, or we can have, I don’t know what they call it, Mcdonald’s hamburger beef.


[00:33:01] Ashley James: [laughs] It’s soy lent green.


[00:33:04] Catharine Arnston: Yeah, so there’s a lot of variety and that’s part of what people need to understand. The source that you use is 99% of everything. You could try a cheap algae, which may come in a tablet and eat it, or you can try ours and I’m so glad that you’re chewing yours and in fact, I love them so much and I started about six months ago eating them with almonds or eating them with macadamia and then I started with even having them with just sea salt, or almonds, or macadamias, you’re in for a treat.

We’re hoping to do trail mixes next year with all those, or in fact, we’re working with the spa community and we’re putting together like an algae sampler package for them to offer to their clients. Just like they have a granola-tasting bar. We’re going to give them an algae-tasting bar. You can get some Chlorella, add in some almonds or some shaved coconut chips or banana chips. Man, now, you’re getting a snack that’s healthy for you. It’s truly a snack. This stuff is healing. We’re in such a toxic world that we’ve got to get something started in our body to start pulling all those metals out of our brain, our liver, and everywhere else. I am very proud of our Chlorella. I love our Spirulina, too. It’s like having children: “Yeah, I love you, too. I love you. too.”


[00:34:34] Ashley James: [laughing]


[00:34:36] Catharine Arnston: “Don’t worry, Mama loves you.” [laughs] Your listeners have children, so you cannot show anybody too much favoritism because someone is going to get really upset so Spirulina has its place. Most would find it a tougher flavor to enjoy but it is totally chewable but the Chlorella, I tell you, is a game-changer. I don’t think I can live without it quite honestly. It’s my favorite food in the whole world.


[00:35:03] Ashley James: Well, I am a big fan, too. Dr. Kinghardt says to take your Chlorella before you get in the sauna or before you do something that aids in detoxification as well because it will further give you the benefits. When I think I already know everything there is to know, you always surprise me…


[00:35:23] Catharine Arnston: [laughs]


[00:35:24] Ashley James: …and bring in more information. That was so cool. I didn’t really know that Chlorella was fat-soluble so that it’s aiding in the liver so much more because of that which is really…


[00:35:38] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:35:40] Ashley James: Scientists are using algae now in oil spills to soak up oil spills to break apart or digest oil spills or even finding out ways of digesting plastic. There are so many applications but the application that they’ve been researching for well over 50 years, has been how to end world hunger. You’ve talked about it before, Spirulina: why it’s so popular to study it. It’s a crop that grows really fast. We have to have sunlight and very clean water. Last time I had you on episode 266, you talked about the potential for growth in the United States and I think that it was sort of in talks in the Senate or in the House or somewhere in D.C. It was getting it passed.


[00:36:38] Catharine Arnston: Yup. It’s getting passed now.


[00:36:39] Ashley James: That’s very exciting.


[00:36:40] Catharine Arnston: And I just want to point out that CBD oil now is like everywhere.


[00:36:46] Ashley James: Right.


[00:36:47] Catharine Arnston: It had been under the radar, under current new development for a probably a decade but it wasn’t until 2018 farm bill that legalized CBD oil that as a result of that farm bill, that’s when CBD oil industry exploded. It’s taking off and someone said to me that they felt that humping algae were the answers to everything, and I said “Oh, I think I have to agree [inaudible 00:37:15] that one. The farm bills of 2018 are what spurred the CBD oil growth and the farm bill this year that includes the algae agricultural act has already spurring interests in algae here in America. It’s going to take a little while to kick in but trust me, algae is probably going to be the most important  crop of the 24th century because it has all the nutrients and I point out that: farmers that grow corn, or weed, or so many are selling crops for us that are not that really healthy for us and require a lot of water mass. Did you know that 80% of the freshwater in our aquifers isn’t used by consumers? It’s for agricultural purposes.


[00:38:06] Ashley James: It’s actually for making, most of it, feed for animals. So why not cut out the middleman and just eat plants?


[00:38:16] Catharine Arnston: Yeah, exactly, it’s destroying the plants, destroying our aquifers and you get one crop a year. You grow your corn; you get one crappy crop a year. With algae, it takes months to grow and a couple of weeks to dry so you can get 10-12 crops a year on the same amount of soil. And requires a third of the water. There’s no carbon footprint. There’s no garbage, there’s nothing. You can reuse the water. It can grow on arable land. You can grow these things on deserts as long as there’s sunlight and a really great clean source of water so that’s why the government sat up and took notice. They know all about nutrition. They know that [inaudible 00:39:09] all the science about it. They know that it’s growing in other countries. They realized they can get some really great agricultural crops from it and so they’re really encouraging farmers to grow. I certainly hope to grow it in America. It could be well for 5 or 10 years.

When I was in that algae conference, they pointed out some of the folks, the people from Florida, and they pointed out that in Florida, the orange groves were hit by some sort of light of some kind. There’s a lot of lands now available to grow crops. They can’t grow the oranges any longer. I’d always assume we would grow it in [Nevada 00:39:51] or maybe Southern California but I’m going to circle back and take a look at Florida. You’ll never know, right?


[00:39:59] Ashley James: You just want to make sure wherever your growing is far from where people are spraying…


[00:40:05] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:40:06] Ashley James: …of crops and spraying pesticides. Like in Texas, there’s just so much spraying of mosquitoes and things like that.


[00:40:14] Catharine Arnston: I know. You need to be really careful. Yeah.


[00:40:16] Ashley James: I’m so excited about the amount of readily absorbed protein that’s in Spirulina. It is the food that people can live off. Right? Someone can buy a bunch of packs of your energy bits and use them as emergency storable food.


[00:40:34:05] Catharine Arnston: Yeah. There’s this term for the people that think the world is going to end…


[00:40:40:08] Ashley James: “Preppers.”


[00:40:41:13] Catharine Arnston: Preppers. Yeah. They do buy a lot of ours because we do have to put an expiry date on the bag as required by FDA but literally it never goes bad. You can have this stuff for 20 years and as long as you keep in the pack, it doesn’t have to be refrigerated. Nothing. It’s there. A funny side now is that LGLs will never die if their growing conditions deteriorate, it just goes into hibernation until the sun comes back or the water conditions come back. There was an article, I think in National Geographic about some explorers that were in the arctic circle. They took a little chip of glacier from like three billion years ago and apparently, there are a few algae attached to it, so they brought it back and put it in a petri dish and put some water on it. This three-billion-year-old piece of algae started growing.


[00:41:34:04] Ashley James: That’s so cool.


[00:41:35:23] Catharine Arnston: Like seriously. “A” – it lasts forever, and “B” – the protein in both Spirulina or Chlorella is already in amino acid form. When you eat animal protein, your body has to break it down to amino before it can be absorbed. It can take up to three days for that process to happen if you don’t have the factors and co-factors, you may end up only absorbing 10%. So let’s say 50 grams of chicken for dinner; within a couple of days, you may have only absorbed 5 grams of a [deci 00:42:11:12] amino acids. With algae, because the species is Spirulina because the proteins are already in amino acid form. Your body can absorb it. It gets 99% absorbed. It’s called “bioavailable” within minutes. One serving of our tablets, either Spirulina or Chlorella, gives you 5 grams of protein. So 5 grams of a single serving of our algae tablets is really the equivalent to your body as 50 grams of animal protein because you end up in many cases only with 5 grams.

Obviously, for vegans, that’s really important because they’re always looking for more high protein sources and I also want to point out, we’re talking about Spirulina, it has the nutrient profile specifically on the amino acid side that’s almost identical to mother’s breast milk. it’s all the same amino acids in the same proportions. It also something called “GLA” which is an essential fatty acid that’s really important for your brain. And the only place that has more GLA is mother’s breast milk. And the reason…


[00:43:22:29] Ashley James: Wow.


[00:43:23:21] Catharine Arnston:  …why is because for baby’s brains to double, triple in size within the first year or two after birth. It’s very tough to get mother’s breast milk after you age, too.


[00:43:34:17] Ashley James: [laughs]


[00:43:36:25] Catharine Arnston: If you want the same benefits as mother’s breast milk, Spirulina is your answer. And of course, you get all the other benefits like 40 other vitamins and minerals you don’t find in mother’s breast milk. It’s pretty cool.


[00:43:51.16] Ashley James: I love it. Yeah. I like that you brought up that Chlorella, like the word “Chlorella” you have to think of the chlorophyll because I’ve drunk liquid chlorophyll before. They usually…


[00:44:02:26] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:44:02:25] Ashley James:  …buy it with like, it has peppermint oil [inaudible 00:44:05.25] so it’s like “Mmm, it’s minty.” I learn this like, I don’t know in the 90s, that if you drink chlorophyll that your poop wouldn’t smell; that your gas wouldn’t smell. For people who have really bad digestive problems, bad-smelling gas or maybe they’re just going through something, right?


[00:44:23:07] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:44:23:07] Ashley James: They’re trying to dial in their own diet, but they’ve got stuff going on, that drinking liquid chlorophyll will help neutralize. It’s like a deodorant for your gut because it’s neutralizing your toxins.


[00:44:34:19] Catharine Arnston: Right.


[00:44:35:24] Ashley James: I remember, I think I was a teenager, drinking going like “My poop doesn’t smell [inaudible 00:44:38:28] and it also turns your poop green which is great for St. Patrick’s Day. Like “what’s going on down there?”


[00:44:46:21] Catharine Arnston: Right. Right. [laughs]


[00:44:46:01] Ashley James: I was just like “This is the coolest thing in the world. How did they not know about this? And what you’re saying is that when you eat your Chlorella, your Recoverybits, you’re getting way more chlorophyll so it’s more cost-effective because I think those bottles of good liquid chlorophyll can be quite expensive. You’re saying you’re getting way more [00:45:11.16] by getting your Recoverybits, your Chlorella. And then if someone wants to make it liquid, they can throw it in a blender with some water…


[00:45:20:13] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:45:20:29] Ashley James: Make a smoothie or whatever or chew them up.


[00:45:23:25] Catharine Arnston: People who get wheatgrass shots… it has 25 times more than wheatgrass.


[00:45:28:01] Ashley James: Wow.


[00:45:29:05] Catharine Arnston: Liquid chlorophyll is made from alfalfa sprouts. There’s no comparison. I call it efficient nutrition because it has such high concentrated amounts. I mentioned this previously and I’ll mention it again because it has always stunned me… Anybody’s welcome to go online and check this out because it’s the truth. The chemical composition of your blood, your hemoglobin is identical to chlorophyll with the exception of one atom; in your blood. there’s an iron atom in the middle and chlorophyll has to make this amount identical.

I tell people “It’s got to be a tip-off about how important chlorophyll is to your body and where [inaudible 00:46:11.13] ran out of blood for transfusions for the injury they used to give them liquid chlorophyll because it would help them heal as fast as a blood transfusion. Chlorophyll builds your blood. End of story. It builds everything. If you want to get chlorophyll, go ahead and have salads, I love salads, but you’re not going to get much chlorophyll out of it because our soils are so damaged. We really are eating for entertainment now.


[00:46:36:08] Ashley James: [laughs]


[00:46:38:23] Catharine Arnston: If you really want nutrition, you’ve got to go to places like algae because there’s nowhere else that’s going to give you the nutrient value. Chlorella, which we call our Recoverybits because it helps you recover health. Hands down, it’s scientifically documented with the highest concentration of chlorophyll as well as other things. It is pretty amazing. If there are any moms listening and can’t get their kids to eat vegetables, just give them a few tablets a day and their chlorophyll needs will certainly be met. Phytonutrient needs will be met, and probably their protein so don’t worry [laughs].


[00:47:17:10] Ashley James: Right. Go listen to the previous episodes. I don’t want to redo the whole story because for those who have heard it, they want to hear it again. My son, the first time I tried to get him to eat, he was about two years old. I tried to get him to eat the Energybits. He was giving me a look like because he’s not going to eat anything green. He just went through that face, it was like: “I don’t want any vegetables with green. He was eating vegetables yesterday and I was not. I played the game right: I chew them and stick my tongue out and my tongue was green. He’s like “Oh, that is cool.” You can…


[00:47:53:00] Catharine Arnston: [laughing]


[00:47:55:08] Ashley James:  …get kids to like it. And then he…


[00:47:56:09] Catharine Arnston: Yeah.


[00:47:57:05] Ashley James: …calls them green crackers or green cookies, “Can I have green crackers?” because they crunch like crackers. He loves them as a snack.


[00:48:09:17] Catharine Arnston: Yeah. Pets love them, too, by the way [laughs].


[00:48:11:16] Ashley James: Oh, I’ve got to try that. The Chlorella, or Spirulina, or both?


[00:48:17:19] Catharine Arnston: Yeah. Either one. Sometimes, they show a preference for one or the other. The animals are so smart. They know what’ good for them. A guy, who has been a customer for a while, sent me an email. It was a couple of years ago. He’s a hiker. He went out backpacking. His camp was raided one night by a couple of big black bears so he took off, and when he came back, his bag is full of supplements – they were all still there but the bags of Energybits and Recoveybits, he says, were ripped open and licked clean [laughs].


[00:48:47:08] Ashley James: [laughing]


[00:48:50:13] Catharine Arnston: Bears know what’s good for them. Right? [laughs]


[00:48:51:24] Ashley James: Oh. That is too funny.


[00:48:53:18] Catharine Arnston: I laughed too hard when I read that one.


[00:48:57:05] Ashley James: That is too funny.


[00:48:57:26] Catharine Arnston: Even at the expense of treatment for your pets, but hey, we want them to be healthy as well. it’s really good for them.


[00:49:05:02] Ashley James:  Last time, we spoke… you had a customer, right? It brought tears to my eyes. That she is a young mother with young kids and going through chemotherapy and very ill. Do you have any updates on her story?


[00:49:23:10] Catharine Arnston: I don’t. In fact, I was thinking about that the other day. I wanted to find out and this is a woman who had been sick for about 8 months, bed-ridden, and somebody who was a customer of ours. I sent her a couple of bags, one of Energybits and one of Recovery. We subsequently gifted her some. Within a week, he was able to get out of bed and she tried everything. Her children were so relieved and made sure mommy took her green medicine.


[00:49:52:03] Ashley James: [laughs]


[00:49:53:16] Catharine Arnston: We continue to get people telling us allergies have gone away. They don’t have to take their allergy medication. It’s like a natural reduction of the anti-histamine. We’ve had people tell us that they don’t need their pressure medication any longer. I always urge people to talk to your doctor about any kind of decrease in any medications that you’re having, perhaps you can start taking some of the algae while you’re taking whatever you’re doing and see how you’re feeling.


[00:50:29:23] Ashley James: Right.


[00:50:31:11] Catharine Arnston: There’s this one customer, when I [tripped in 00:50:31.09], she forgot her meds and so she just doubled up on her Spirulina and after her 10-day trip she came back and she realized, she didn’t need them anymore. She never continued to take them.

Another gentleman who was on a restricted income, he’s retired, he emails us all the time because, I think he’s about 70, and all his friends have either heart disease, cancer, [inaudible 00:50:57.25] sick. He says “I don’t take any [inaudible 00:50:59.04] except your algae and I try to get them to take it because I feel great and I don’t even have the expense of health insurance I used to have. It keeps him healthy. He doesn’t have to take drugs. He doesn’t have to spend a lot of money on other health care issues. I’m just proud of what else it does for people [laughs].


[00:51:24:22] Ashley James: Awesome. It’s so cool.


[00:51:26:04] Catharine Arnston: Yeah. I know a lot of your listeners are women and I did want to see if we could talk about osteoporosis, heart disease. I don’t think we covered that in the other interviews.


[00:51:38:09] Ashley James: Let’s do it. We did talk about K2. Let’s dive into osteoporosis…


[00:51:42:01] Catharine Arnston: Okay.


[00:51:42:13] Ashley James: …and heart diseases and how we can use algae to support our bodies and not [inaudible 00:51:47.08] diseases.


[00:51:50.07] Catharine Arnston: The K2 bits, I am not sure if many people are aware of what K2 is. It’s a vitamin that was recently discovered 25 years ago and it’s related to K1 but it’s as different as night and day between K1. K1 is found in foods that are green: kale, spinach. What it does is that it helps your blood coagulate so it’s important. But K2, the only source of K2 is in grass-fed animal protein or frankly algae especially the Chlorella algae. You can also get it in a dish called “Natto” which nobody eats as a Japanese dish. You say “Why is it in grass-fed animal protein? Here’s why. Animals have bacteria in their gut that allows them to convert K1 which is in green things like grass and Kale. It allows them to convert K1 into K2. As we humans, eat any grass-fed protein whether it’s dairy, or beef, or whatever, we absorbed the K2 because they have that conversion. The problem is, back in the 60s and 70s, all the cows and chickens and everything was taken off the pastures where they were had previously been chewing happily on green grass and they were moved into enclosures and fed corn which has no green in it which is very acidic which also causes stomach distresses. That’s where you get all the cow issues [inaudible 00:53:28.14].

The supply of K2 from our diet basically disappeared completely. Interestingly, at the same time that that happened, the rise in heart disease had escalated. Ax exact mirror of these two incidences. The medical physicians, heart specialists, are now realizing that one of the main causes of heart disease is too much calcium in your blood vessels which basically causes them to get rigid and calcify. The blood vessel builds up with all the calcium there, which shouldn’t be there, it’s immobile, it can cause some fractures that lead to stroke. “Why is the calcium there?” “How did the calcium get in your blood vessels. All of us certainly clean our house where it’s like: “Who put the shoes there?” “That’s not supposed to be there?”


[00:54:24.03] Ashley James: [laughs]


[00:54:25.10] Catharine Arnston: [laughs] There’s a place for those. Well, your body needs to be told that calcium is not supposed to be in the blood vessels. It’s supposed to be in your bones. Without K2, that’s where it goes. In fact, without K2, calcium does not go to your bones. It goes to your soft tissue. This is your blood vessels. This is your skin, your organs, your brain. Basically, anywhere but your bones. There’s some protein matrix in the Vitamin K2 that does two things: it moves the calcium out of soft tissue and puts it into your bones and at the same time, it traps calcium into your bones and teeth. By adding K2 in your diet, you’re getting multiple benefits: you’re helping to prevent heart disease and also prevent problems with your organs. Your kidney stones are calcification. It’s too much calcium gathered in your kidneys. You get K2, boom, those are gone.

They’re realizing Alzheimer’s partly result of again of calcification in the brain. K2 is very, very important. Yet, there are very few foods that you can find it in. People are taking supplements, but they don’t behave the same way or as effective as K2 that you find in food. Any time that you get a nutrient in food, it’s always better for your body. It will always perform better. I’ve also read K2 has complications to it, there are different versions, different flavors I guess that you want to call it.

There’s one called M4 which is what you find in algae, which you find in food, apparently, that’s the only version of K2 that the brain can absorb. In your supplements, there’s always something called M7. I’m not sure if that’s going to be helping prevent Alzheimer’s. K2 is a very important piece of one of the many benefits of the algae particularly the Chlorella. Chlorella has twice as much K2 as Spirulina. Just to show you sort of comparisons of food that: how much K2 is in food groups. If you have 100 grams of Chlorella, it has what you call 240 mcg (240 mcg in a hundred grams of Chlorella) Compare that to milk, that’s one. One mcg.


[00:57:04.07] Ashley James: No. 


[00:57:05.27] Catharine Arnston: Beef. Again. One. Salami, I don’t why it’s got 9. Egg yolks a whopping 15. 15 compared to 240 in Chlorella. There really isn’t any comparison. If you want the efficiencies ok K2 and you want it from food, you really need to get it from something like Chlorella. If you’re vegan, you don’t want to be eating your grass-fed proteins.


[00:57:34.13] Ashley James: Right.


[00:57:36.15] Catharine Arnston: I’m very proud of the fact that has high K2.


[00:57:40.13] Ashley James:  Man, I got to get a bag for my mother in law.


[00:57:45.00] Catharine Arnston:  Yeah. It’s really amazing. The reason I mentioned this is because people don’t really realize that heart disease is a very big issue for women and so osteoporosis. In osteoporosis what happens is that: your bones get brittle and porous. The reason they’re becoming brittle and porous because in your early years your bones are being built. Your bones store minerals like calcium. But they also store lots of minerals. But after the age of 40, rather than building up your bones, you’re starting to lose bone structure. It’s so important as you age that you maintain your bone structure to prevent this porousness. One of the reasons why bones get porous is because we have acidic foods in our diet. Emotions and stress can cause acidity in your blood or even if you over-exercise because you throw out lactic acid – that makes your blood acidic. Your blood needs to maintain a pH level of 7.34. If you eat too much acidic food like dairy or processed food or even meat or eggs, your body and your blood know that it needs to neutralize that immediately or you would die. What it does is it pulls out the minerals that are stored in your bones to immediately dilute the acidity of your blood to bring it back to that pH 7.34. If you do that, over and over again, day in, day out, month in, month out: you’re pulling critical minerals out of your bones which contributes to porousness and osteoporosis and fragility of your bones.

Two things that are so important for bone health is weight-bearing exercise continue to build your bones and ensuring you have proper K2 to make sure your calcium is being absorbed. Make sure your diet is healthy so that you’re not extracting those minerals. It’s like overdrawing at a bank account. Right? You don’t want to overdraw it too many times. You don’t want any of those problems. I’ very happy that algae have all those minerals: magnesium, potassium, calcium. Anything that your bones need. In addition to K2, it’s like a package deal. It’s a one-stop-shop. It’s food. It’s not processed.

It’s really very helpful, particularly for women. 80% of osteoporosis patients are women. Over the age of 50, it’s a real problem. I just wanted to be sure that… women are particularly a target for this because our bones are smaller than men’s. They’re frailer from the beginning. They’re thinner. Our bone structure is just different. That’s why men don’t have as much of a problem although it still hits men. But women are, particularly at risk.


[01:01:11.12] Ashley James: What started for you to have the light of moment? Have you wanted to create Energybits? Was that your sister was told by her oncologist in Canada that she should go in an alkaline diet because it was better for recovery from cancer…


[01:01:31.07] Catharine Arnston: Correct.


[01:01:32.04] Ashley James: …and also prevention? It’s a healthier diet for the lifestyle to help the body because, in an alkaline state, the body doesn’t create disease in it. In an acidic state, diseases are rampant for many reasons. You saw the algae, Chlorella and Spirulina, have an alkalizing effect in the body because they readily absorb nutrients the body uses to bring the body back to balance. It has vitamins and minerals. It also has the chelator effect that takes out the toxins. There are many reasons why Chlorella and Spirulina help the body come back in the balance. I had a guest send me some pH test strips. I’ll make sure the link is in the show notes. These test strips are very affordable. They’re like 5 bucks or something. They’re very cool. You can use them both for urine and for saliva. She explained this is Kellyann from potandenergysystems.ca. She has a whole ionic foot detox system.


[01:02:46.01] Catharine Arnston: Oh, we’ve spoken. I’ve spoken to her. She’s terrific.


[01:02:48.22] Ashley James: Right. Yeah.


[01:02:49.11] Catharine Arnston: She’s a [Victoria 01:02:49.13].


[01:02:52.00] Ashley James: [inaudible 01:02:52.00] me. Yeah. She talks about how testing your pH is…. test yourself once a week. It’s like a self-check-in. I had a [inaudible 01:03:03.13] one of my mentors. He wrote a book all about teaching people how to do their own physicals. If you do your own sort-of physicals throughout the year, it’s not like a big surprise when you see your doctor and find out you’ve been going on the wrong path for the whole year. Like “Wow, your blabs are really looking bad. We need to like to make some changes. Well, if you’ve been doing your own check-in with yourself when it’s still a whisper. Right? Check-in with yourself: “Oh, wow, my pH is awfully [inaudible 01:03:29.11], what’s going on? I need to adjust my diet. I have to increase my greens. I need to get more sleep. Drink more water. We just need to look.

If we tested something simple like tester pH and you can test your saliva very easily. Testing your urine’s, a little bit different because in the morning you want it to be acidic because the kidneys were concentrating it and pulling all the stuff. But then you want to see if you tested your urine throughout the day, you would see the acidity come down. You don’t want it to be more acidic in the afternoon that it was first thing in the morning. Then that’s definitely a sign that there is a problem. What’s easier is just testing your saliva.  If you’re in those good rangers, the nice green, dark green, 7 or 7.5 or 8, then that’s great. Good. I’ve walked around with these test strips, some of my friends and family, and I have been shocked. I’m always alkaline, ” I was like patting myself in the back, and then my husband came in who has more alkaline than me.


[01:04:30.20] Catharine Arnston: [laughing]


[01:04:33.21] Ashley James: He eats like a pound of blueberries a day. He gets those antioxidants. I go to friends and family and like they’re clearly acidic. I’ve actually seen people be able to get their test strips to move into the alkaline state. It’s just a way that we show ourselves that we’re moving the right direction. If we could take our blood pressure once a week, take our glucometer reading once a week, just to check in: “what’s going on?” “How am I doing?” “Am I in the right direction or in the wrong direction? Just like people get in the scale, measure themselves, and push themselves to the gym and see like: “Am I getting better or worse?” It just gives us a good reading.

I would love to hear from the listeners. I have a ton of listeners that buy the Energybits because I’ve heard from so many listeners. You. You’ve heard from so many of my listeners as well. I’d love to hear if any listeners have played with the test strips and have seen if using their Chlorella and Spirulina have seen their pH get better. Catharine, have you seen that in your many years working?


[01:05:51.22] Catharine Arnston: Yeah. I don’t do the pH testing myself. However, what I will say, is more like great things about pH testing if you can do it. It brings you back to focus on your own body. I think what’s happened in the last 50, maybe 100, years is we handed over responsibility for our health to anybody in the white jacket. They don’t have the time to understand what’s really going in their bodies. They’re so focused on drugs to mask whatever condition is causing you some distress. You don’t want to mask a condition. You want to correct the condition [laughs]. The fact that you’re doing some testing forces you to slowly reorient your focus on yourself and just like having a great sleep, you know when you feel good. You know when you take our algae that it’s good for you. You just feel better. The more that you can tune in to your own health and whether it’s your test strips or anything, I can promise you the more empowered you will become emotionally, spiritually. You will take back the responsibility to treat yourself well. Because you’ll start to treat your body like something that deserves respect as it does.

It’s there to support you but if you give it foods that are just temporarily exciting like white bread or something, or maybe a pastry. Sure, it’s a minute or two of great satisfaction, and then you get like two days’ worth of trying your body struggling, trying to get rid of the unhealthy components that it’s now faced to try to digest and absorb and whatever. Over time, you start realizing, “I think I’d rather feel better for two days than feeling great for a minute.”  You start to evolve into a much more thoughtful, present individual and only seek out foods, people situations, emotions that make you feel better. It’s a much better way to be. I like any kind of testing that anyone can do if nothing else. It changes the focus inward. It makes you look inward and gives you the tools to feel empowered to know that yes, you can make a difference in your health. Yes, you can. Do not accept the standard drugs, surgery options. Those may be necessary but there could be alternatives less invasive and more natural. That would be my sort-of final word on that [laughs].


[01:08:48.14] Ashley James: [laughs] Wonderful. For those listeners who don’t know Catharine gives us a very generous discount by using “LTH” as in Learn True Health on our website. Energybits we get 20% off. Thank you so much. That actually makes your price incredibly competitive with those very cheap quality ones out there. The ones on Amazon made in China that kind of thing which I would never recommend and then the ones that say they’re really healthier sold by other doctors. Then, you give us our discount – your taste is better, made with better quality, you have third-party testing, you do triple filter for your water. There’s clearly a quality difference. You clearly are like the Ferrari algae [laughs].


[01:09:48.14] Catharine Arnston: [laughs] I like that. I have never thought of it that way.


[01:09:53.11] Ashley James: Never getting it for, I don’t know, Toyota prices. For the price of a Honda, you can get a Ferrari. That’s awesome. I’m a big, big, big fan of Energybits. Just to clarify, the Chlorella which gives us the wonderful benefits of detoxification has the nutrients, has the chlorophyll in it, that’s called “Recoverbits.” So when you go to energybits.com, you find the Recoverybits and then you put it in the coupon code “LTH for 20% off” for those who want the energy from Spirulina, and the protein and also the other nutrients we talked about [inaudible 01:10:33.05] the Energybits, you do have a separate bag called “Beautybits” and it’s the exact same thing, so not to be confused. I like your story behind this you told before…


[01:10:44.25] Catharine Arnston: [laughs]


[01:10:45.04] Ashley James: I think it’s so funny that somewhere… because they carry it in their purse, or they’ll carry it in their gym bag and they just preferred to have something more feminine, so they wanted the pink bags. For those who love pink, to look really cute, you can buy Beautybits, it’s the exact, same as Energybits. What a different package. What else I like about your bags is that every bit comes with tin, so you don’t have to carry the whole bag around. You can just feel up your tin with your day’s amount of like 40 little M&M-sized bits and then you can carry that in your purse, or your car, or whatever. It’s always a great snack to have in the car when the kids or the husband or you are hungry in the car and you’re like: “Oh, I don’t want to go to a drive-thru because I don’t eat that stuff anymore. I don’t want to feed my kids fast food. Oh, this is so great. There is a bag of Chlorella or Spirulina. If you wanted both and you’re like “I can’t decide. I want all the benefits. What do I do?” Catherine made a 50-50 mix of Chlorella and Spirulina so each little bit is made of…


[01:11:54.24] Catharine Arnston: Blend.


[01:11:56.28] Ashley James: Yeah. Blend of it. That’s called the Vitalitybits. Each one has a little bit different texture, a little bit different taste. I like trying all three. The last thing we talked about…


[01:12:09.18] Catharine Arnston: It’s like a bits buffet. [laughs]


[01:12:11.03] Ashley James: Yeah. Right. I like your idea of putting like all the other trail mixes around. You take a little bit of that dark chocolate or take some cranberries, and some coconut flakes, make a little trail mix with the Energybits. I love it. That’s so cool.


[01:12:27.09] Catharine Arnston: Stay tuned.


[01:12:28.12] Ashley James: Yeah, right. I have tried it, by the way, with the macadamia nuts. It was absolutely delicious, so I do agree with you. The last thing is if anyone wants to eat Chlorella, they should eat 30-40 bits in one sitting. Because if you eat too few, it creates a detox effect that people would have felt negative. Because they feel the detox effect if they eat too few. I’ve had so many people say “Oh, I feel worse after eating Chlorella.” I’m like “How many did you eat?” “Well, I had 5.” You have to eat 30 or 40 so that you give your body enough to not only kind of stir-up the toxins but to grab on to them and absorb them. I’ve seen this several times. The best thing is to make sure you eat enough of the Chlorella. I’ve had an experience where I was going through, not because of Chlorella but because of a parasite [inaudible 01:13:19.23] I was doing, I felt so sick, I was having one of those flu-like symptoms from detoxing too quickly. I immediately ran to my Recoverybits and just started to take mouthfuls of them. [laughs]


[01:13:34.26] Catharine Arnston: That’s too funny. I’m sure your listeners: you can’t have actually too much and I don’t even want to tell you how much I eat every day but it’s just a very nutrient-dense food. On the other hand, with the Spirulina, in both cases, we recommend 30 as a single serving but we’re finding that people are so nutrient-deprived that even if you take 5 tablets of the Spirulina, you’ll feel the difference. It’s not like a lightning bolt from the sky because there are no stimulants and either the algae. But with Spirulina, you just feel fresh. You feel like you just had a great night sleep. Hunger is gone. Fatigue is gone. You don’t need to dissolve drugs the next day, you don’t need to take more to get the same effect.


[01:14:20.03] Ashley James: [laughs]


[01:14:20.08] Catharine Arnston: You can take them for when you’re on your way work or have them at 2:00 when you’re tired. You can also have them before bed because they won’t keep you up. It’s not that kind of energy. It’s like giving your car the high-test gas, it just purs with performance. You want to put with the pur performance [laughs].


[01:14:39.11] Ashley James: [laughs] Take them at the bed, and you told this last time, and I’ve tried this and it’s right. And I’ve had listeners tell me, that when we take them at night, there the nutrients the body needs to make melatonin. People are telling: “Not only do I have more energy in the day from Energybits but I am sleeping better.” It really does make sleep better. I always run to Energybits specifically right before the interview because sometimes I do 2 or 3 interviews in a row. I’m exhausted and hungry. I don’t have time to run to the kitchen, it’s so great to have a handful of it. I really do feel that sense of being refreshed. I’m not hungry anymore. It’s not like I’m looking to replace a meal but it’s like a supplement and a snack at once. I’m a big fan.


[01:15:31.28] Catharine Arnston: I think we should create a new category. Instead of calling it a superfood, I think we should call it a “super snack.” [laughs]


[01:15:36.16] Ashley James: Super snack. There you go. That’s right.


[01:15:41.02] Catharine Arnston: …or I’m going to call it “super-duper food” [laughs]. It’s more than a superfood so it’s not enough. These are my children.


[01:15:48.26] Ashley James: Right. Exactly, It’s a super-duper food. It’s like way up there at the top of the food pyramid. Yeah. We’re going to make our own new pyramid of superfoods and Spirulina and Chlorella will be at the top and dark chocolate is going to be at the bottom.


[01:15:58.26] Catharine Arnston: [laughing]


[01:16:02.19] Ashley James: Very cool. It’s been so great having you back on the show.


[01:16:07.09] Catharine Arnston: Oh, thank you so much. It’s so great to be here and chat. I know we could talk longer but I think we have to call it…


[01:16:13.02] Ashley James: [laughing]


[01:16:14.29] Catharine Arnston: Everybody probably has to get some bits. [laugh]


[01:16:18.11] Ashley James: Yeah. I’m definitely going to have my bits after this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show again. Please come back anytime you have more to share. I’m really excited to follow the progression of farming in the United States for Chlorella and Spirulina and see where it goes. I would love to see in 5 to 10 years your company like producing, farming your own, that would be so amazing. I won’t go do a farm tour. I’m just imagining you and me walking down the aisles of the tanks in the valley desert of Florida. That would be so wonderful to have that connection where you can see right from the beginning until the end… see every step of the process. I’m really looking forward to Chlorella and Spirulina being in every home. Something that we all consume on a daily basis because of the benefits both for the environment and for our health. It’s been wonderful having you on the show. Please come back…


[01:17:24.11] Catharine Arnston: Thank you. Okay. I’ll get all those articles for you on the toxin stuff. We’ll get that posted. My parting word would be: instead of asking yourself “Why you should take algae?” I would ask to say to yourself: “Why wouldn’t you?”


[01:17:40.14] Ashley James: [laughs]


[01:17:41.03] Catharine Arnston: [laughs]


[01:17:44.24] Ashley James: There’s no reason not to.


[01:17:47.18] Catharine Arnston: Alright. Thank you so much. Use your discount code “LTH” for your 20% off.


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I definitely recommend you check them out. You can Google [inaudible 01:19:08.21] for integrated sports nutrition or IAN and give them a call or you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training. Check them out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in. Be sure to mention my name, Ashley James, and the Learn True Health podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible. I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program.

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There are so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach so check out IAN. Check out the Institute for Integrated Nutrition. Mention my name. Get the best deal. Give them a call and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you. Classes are starting soon, and the next round of classes are starting at the end of the month so you’re going to want to call them now and check it out. If you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.

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Art Geiser And Ashley James

Art Giser is the creator of Energetic NLP (neurolinguistic programming). For today’s episode, he will introduce us to the world of Energetic NLP and he will also share some techniques to clear and develop our energy for our personal development.


[00:03] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host Ashley James. This is Episode 356. I am very excited about today’s guest. This is one of my favorite topics and yet we haven’t covered it in a tremendous amount of detail on the show yet. So, today’s the day. We have with us Art Giser who is – he’s the creator of Energetic NLP. His website’s energeticnlp.com. And for those who don’t know what NLP is, it’s neurolinguistic programming. Art is a very experienced trainer of NLP and has many other gifts and talents that he’s here to share with us today.  Welcome to the show.


[00:49] Art Giser: Well, thank you. I’m happy to be here.


[00:51] Ashley James: Absolutely. We had a great talk before we hit record. And you have some goodies to share with us today, some great transformative tools. But before we get into that, I want to dive into your story and learn a bit more about you. What led you to want to become a trainer of NLP and then dedicate your life to helping people transform their lives?


[01:14] Art Giser: For me, it wasn’t a plan. I’m not one of those people who had their whole life mapped out. I thought I did. When I’m just really young, I want to be a scientist when I grow up, and my father was one of the early computer guys and I loved science and logic. And I knew I wanted to be a scientist when I grow up. But I was also really intrigued, even at a young age, by hypnotism and the powers of the unconscious mind and extrasensory perception and telepathy. And somehow, I knew there was a reality to that too, but I didn’t know how to explore what it was about. And I was really adventuresome. And then something happened. I graduated from college [inaudible] from the U.K., I graduated from university. And I got stuck. I got stuck for years. I had a degree in Biology, and I thought I did know what I wanted to do when I grow up. So, I thought maybe I can get a research job for a while until I figure it out. And miraculously, I got hired by the University of California Medical School in San Francisco, which is one of the top research institutions in the world. And after a couple of years, I ended up managing this research lab. It was all very synchronistic and lucky. And there were a lot of wonderful things about it. I literally could go have lunch and listen to Nobel Laureate speak. And I work with great people, and we were investigating the effects of estrogen and progesterone on tissues of a woman’s body. So, it was worthwhile work.And I’m sure some of the listeners can relate to this, it wasn’t where I belong. I knew it wasn’t where I could shine. I was using what I came in to do in this lifetime. But I had no idea what that was. And I’d always had this belief that something was just going to appear and that would show me where to go. And then as the years went on, I thought, “Well, maybe I’m just kidding myself. And maybe, is there something wrong with me? Why can’t I figure out what I want to do?” And I began to feel worse and worse about myself. And I was thinking about it recently, other than finding true love, every great change in my life has happened because of a teacher or a workshop. And the first one that broke the ice is a man named Bruce Honig, who was offering a course in creativity at the student union. And nowadays, that sounds normal. But at that time, I didn’t know you could teach creativity. I’d never heard of anybody doing anything like that. And I went to his course and the biggest thing I got out of it was here’s somebody who created something that was what he wanted to do.

People are more entrepreneurial now. But at that time, I’d never thought of doing anything like that. And he told me about a lecture on intuition. And I went to it, and they were selling different books. And on a break, I was out in the hallway and there was a bulletin board and it had flyers on it. And one of them said “neurolinguistic programming.” And when I read the words, it felt like a bolt of lightning hit the top of my head and went through my entire body. It was like a “boom.” And in my mind, like the scientist in me, was going, “What was that?” And the mystic in me was going, “That was a sign. What do you think it was?” And I didn’t know what to do with that. And I didn’t know what neurolinguistic programming was. I went back for the rest of the talk and I noticed on the table they were selling all these books on intuition, but they had one book that was an NLP book, a neurolinguistic programming book, that had nothing to do with intuition. So, I don’t even know why it was there, but I thought, “Okay. That’s a second sign.” And I bought it, took it home, started reading it. And it’s just everything they were saying made sense to me.

For people who are new to neurolinguistic programming, it was started in the ‘70s in California. And the people who started it want to know how can people make a rapid, deep personal change. And at that point in time in Psychology, in the ‘70s, psychologists talked about, “If you want to make a deep change, it could take like five years.” That wasn’t even a long time. I remember speaking to a psychologist once and she went, “For a deep change, I have to work with people for at least five years.” And the people who started NLP went, “Well, there are some people who would get rapid, fantastic results with people.” So, they started studying them and videotaping them. And back in those days, videotaping with a machine that was about half a big as your refrigerator, you had to bring a cart. It wasn’t like you pick up your iPhone. And they develop this whole theory.

So, going back to my story, so I was intrigued by what I read. But the one thing that bothered me, as somebody who did Science and research, that they made all these extravagant claims. Their claims are so extravagant. I thought these are just really hard to believe, but I was just really intrigued. And I had to find out what it was. And for once in my life, up to that time, I would have gone, “Okay. What’s most convenient? What’s the cheapest option?” But I was so intrigued by this I went – I tried to find out who was the absolute best person who could teach an NLP course that I could go to the soonest. And that was so unlike me. And I found this course. It was taught by a man named by Michael LeBeau, who’s not well known now because he retired in 1985. But he was a great developer in NLP. And he was teaching this course, and I had no business being there. It was an advanced course. I was going to have to take five days in one month and five days the next month, and it was really expensive. But I was just so compelled. I thought I had to find out if this is really what I think it is.

And when I went to the first course – I know you’re familiar with the concept of resistance. If people aren’t listening, sometimes when you’re going to make a great change in your life, all the unconscious programming acts up. So, I managed to severely sprain my ankle the day before. I think I was actually kind of a little bit in shock. I didn’t even have time to go to the doctor. I borrowed crutches from a friend. I didn’t even actually know how to use them correctly. There was no Uber or Lyft, so I had to take several buses and taxi. And I thought, “Oh, my God. This is going to be difficult.” But I thought, “I’m going to do it anyway. Nothing is going to stop me.” And I showed up and Michael LeBeau came out. Well, the first thing they did is they went, “Does anybody need help with transportation?” So, the rest of the week, I have rides to and from. I thought, “Well, that’s a good sign.” Well, Michael came out and he goes, “I want you to take out a piece of paper and write down your goals for being here.” And everybody’s writing, writing, writing including me and getting into it. And about five minutes later he goes, “Okay. Please stop writing. Take that piece of paper, fold it up, put it away and forget about it.” And you can hear 60 people going, “Huh?” And then he goes, “What I want you to get out of this program is what you don’t even know to want yet.”


[08:49] Ashley James: Yes.


[08:52] Art Giser: And that’s about what happened [inaudible], yes. And I thought, “I’m definitely in the right place.” And it completely changed my life being in that program. Then I had to go back and take the beginning NLP courses to find out what I missed. But that was the big start for me. But the other thing that happened is when I went back to take the beginning courses – this was in Marin County, which is just north of San Francisco on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge – and so there were a lot of people into healing and energy work and psychic development. So, people started teaching me things. There’s this amazing psychic, Lin Martin, and his wife Stacy – she’s also incredible – and they’re going to be teaching a workshop this weekend, “But they’re just going to be at our house Wednesday night and I’m inviting people over. Do you want to come? And I’ll just be reading some people.” Then I was like, “That sounds like fun.” So, I came, and I showed up late and everybody’s already in the circle and Lin has his eyes closed. And one by one people is asking questions. And if they asked a question that was like a decision question, he’d always say the same thing, it’s like, “No, you have free will. It’s not for me to tell you what to do.” But if they ask any other kind of question, he would say something to them. And sometimes, it didn’t sound like a big deal to me, but I would look at the person and their eyes would get wide and their mouth – I mean, you could just see like he just nailed something for them.

So, sometimes I’m a slow study. So, when he gets to me, I asked him a decisions question. I go, “I’m studying NLP. I’m not sure what I want to do with it. Do I want to do one on one or do I want work with health? Do I want to work in corporations, do I want to do this and that?” And the funny thing is I ended up all those things. So, he goes to me, his usual, “Well, you have free will. It’s not for me to tell you what to do.” And then he goes, “But there’s something else.” And he goes, “How do I put this?” And he proceeds to tell me my biggest fear that I had never – I still don’t mention it to people. I had never mentioned it to anybody. And it probably didn’t sound like that big of a deal to anybody else, but I’m sure my eyes were like saucers and my mouth was hanging open. And then he goes, “You don’t have to worry about that.” And I felt like this weight come off me. So, I clear the decks and took his workshop that weekend and at the end of it, I could do quite amazing things. And then since then, I had two empowerments from the Dalai Lama, I’ve stayed with Philippine psychic healers and western healers and psychics and South American healers. So, I’m very much one of those people. I take the best of everything I’ve learned and put it together. So, that’s my basic story.


[11:52] Ashley James: That’s you in a nutshell.


[11:54] Art Giser: Yeah. That’s what’s led me to now.


[11:57] Ashley James: After that weekend, you said that you could do some amazing things. What kind of amazing things could you do after that weekend?


[12:05] Art Giser: Well, before I answer that, I’ll say that the one thing – and I’ll always be indebted to Lin – but the one thing he didn’t teach us to do was how to do energy work safely. And I think it’s because he didn’t need that, so he thought other people didn’t. Because he mentioned, he even goes, “I don’t want people to worry about that.” It ended up getting me in serious trouble, which is why I always teach people how to do it safely. But on the first night of the workshop, we all wrote down a question on a piece of paper and then folded it up and put a symbol on the outside and then he and Stacy would take turns pulling them out of a bowl and he’d go, “Oh, there’s a flower on it,” and then they’d answer the question without reading it. And so, the second night, they go, “Okay. Write down your questions again,” so we did. And then they go, “But we’re not going to do it. You’re going to do it.”


[13:00] Ashley James: Nice.


[13:01] Art Giser: So, they had us paired up. And of course, we were all like really nervous about this. And I paired up with this man and I went first. And it was great learning for me because since I had no information, I just had to say what popped in my mind. And when I was done and I’m thinking, “I have no idea if this is complete [inaudible]. I’m not sure what.” And when I was done, he goes, “Actually, I wrote down two questions and you answered them in order.” Yeah.


[13:34] Ashley James: That is so cool.


[13:35] Art Giser: Yeah. I was blown away. And then now he’s nervous. And then he described what was going on in my life so well I started using his description. I don’t remember exactly what my question was. I think it was about where to take things. And he goes, “You’ve been walking down this path and far ahead of you, there’s a fork on the road. And one fork is logic and the other fork is more mystical.” And he goes, “You’ve been walking up the road going, ‘Which fork do I take? Which fork do I take?’” And he goes, “Now you’ve gotten to the fork and you’ve realized there isn’t any fork.” And that was exactly what was going on in my life. And I’m like, “Wow.”


[14:21] Ashley James: That is so cool. Well, neurolinguistic programming is Science.


[14:25] Art Giser: Yes.


[14:25] Ashley James: And it is related to Metaphysics and Quantum Physics. We can see that there’s this level of this quantum change that people can do in an instant, that neurons can shift and create new neuropathways in an instant. Now we can use Science to hook up people’s brains and see that that this change work – we can prove it was Science. But back then, they were just proving it based on results. So, there’s a lot of science. But it is a good marriage of mystic and science, isn’t it?


[15:01] Art Giser: Oh. And in fact, I worked for a while. This is many years ago when there was still the Soviet Union. In Russia, they do a lot of research on energy work. And these Russians have moved to the U.S., this Russian scientist, and his wife. And they had this energy machine, and I introduced them to a man who had a brain mapping equipment. And when you set that machine at certain energies, the man with the brain mapping equipment goes, “I’ve never seen anything like this in my life.” You could put the brain in different states by just changing them – and you couldn’t hear it. It was silent. Just by changing the frequency of the energies, it was quite mind-boggling. I spent 11 years doing research. I’m not interested in doing more research, but I’m thrilled that there’s a lot of really good research now on healing and energy work and psychic abilities. A book I’d recommend to anybody listening is called An End to Upside Down Thinking. I think his last name is Grodan. There are two books ed An End to Upside Down Thinking. And to me, it’s like the perfect book. It’s packed with information. It’s really easy to read, and it’s short. But he goes through. He’s not a scientist. I think he’s a financial analyst or something. But he got curious about all this, so he went through a lot of the research and just present summaries of it in really simple ways that you can grasp. And he has footnotes for somebody who wants to read all the real research. That is quite an extraordinary book.


[16:44] Ashley James: It’s written by Mark Gober, G-O-B-E-R. I’ll make sure that the link to it is in the show notes of today’s podcast along with the links to everything that Art Giser does. We’ll make sure all the wonderful links, everything we talked about is in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com so that listeners can be sure to check that out.

Art, what was the first NLP book that you saw on that table that didn’t belong with all the other mystic books? What was that first NLP book that you read?


[17:13] Art Giser: And I have to abridge my story a little bit. It was a book called Reframing by Bandler and Grinder. And I got home, and I started the book and it goes, “Don’t start with this book.”


[17:25] Ashley James: Yes.


[17:28] Art Giser: So, I ordered the book Frogs into Princes.


[17:28] Ashley James: Yes.


[17:32] Art Giser: I left that out just to make the story shorter. So, the first book was Reframing, but the first book I read was Frogs into Princes. And it completely just changed my world.


[17:32] Ashley James: It’s funny how what was guiding you were to jump into the advanced stuff first and if it had happened the other way, you might have lost interest because, in the advanced courses, you got to see more like – that’s in the advanced courses, you learn the fast phobia model, you learn more of the heavy-hitting stuff, and so that you got to actually see the change work actually work. So, it’s interesting how the universe aligned itself, was to bring you the advanced stuff first.


[18:13] Art Giser: Well, you’re right. And it was even better than that. My NLP career has been incredibly synchronistic. The assistants at this advanced course were NLP trainers and master practitioners. And the people in the program, they were all advanced people. So, then when I started taking the basic course called the “practitioner course”, as you know, and when I started taking that, Leslie Cameron-Bandler, who had been married to Richard Bandler, one of the early developers of NLP – completely amazing – she had a research group, her and her husband, Michael LeBeau and David Gordon and some other NLP trainers and master practitioners, and it would meet every two weeks. When I was maybe even halfway through my practitioner program, they had an opening in the research group. And I knew most of the people because they knew me from the advanced program. So, they lobbied for me to get into the research group. And they went, well, there’s this new guy, he’s still a beginner but he’s got a talent for this. Maybe it would be good to have who is more naïve. So, all of a sudden, now, every two weeks, I’m meeting with these people who were developing new aspects of NLP. And people would go, “Aren’t you intimidated when you go? And I went, “I’ve never felt freer in my life. I’m the dumb new guy.”



[19:39] Ashley James: There are no expectations.



[19:41] Art Giser: Yes. If I say something dumb, it’s to be expected. If I say something perceptive, they’re all impressed.



[19:48] Ashley James: I love that. That is fantastic. It’s kind of like the situation I’m in now. I’m not a doctor but I interview doctors all day long and then they’re so impressed by what I say, and this is like great because when I say something stupid, it’s fine. I’m not a doctor. I love it. That is hilarious. I want to share with you, with the listeners who don’t know my experience, because I think it gives context to what you are sharing. I lost my mother suddenly to cancer. I mean, she died very quickly after her diagnosis, and we weren’t expecting it. And I’m an only child. And I was kind of lost. It hit me very hard as it would anyone close to their mother. I was 22 at the time. I was heading in one direction in my life, and all of a sudden, that just shut off. I was depressed. I tried to grieve healthily. And my parents introduced me to Landmark education, which they copy a lot of NLP. I don’t know if you know about their work. And they’re a great institution but they do copy a lot of NLP. And so, I’d been experiencing NLP all through my teenage years taking all their courses not realizing it at the time

So, when my mom died, I had been exposed to change work and to personal growth and development for so many years. I had this idea in the back of my mind, “I want to make sure I’m grieving healthily. I want to make sure like I understand that grief happens, but I want to make sure that I don’t get stuck and create some kind of a vicious cycle in my life because I can’t heal from this.” So, I started to seek grief counselors and therapists. And what I found was that everyone I went to, it didn’t feel like they were practicing excellence. Because that’s what I was looking for, I wanted to heal the best I could heal and create the best version of myself after having lost my mother. And I felt as though they were trying to find like sexual abuse in my childhood and they were trying to go back to my childhood and try to find something that wasn’t there. And I kept saying, “I want to heal what’s happened right now. This is what I’m dealing with. And I didn’t feel like any of them had any tools.

And at that time, I had joined an advanced course with Landmark called “Team Management Leadership Program.” And it’s a yearlong course but you can do it actually for multiple years and become a sort of like a leader in it. And then later, I was hired by Landmark to be on staff in Toronto. And during that time, I was still looking to heal. And so, those in my course, there’s about 30 or 60 or us at any given quarter, they knew what my intention was. I was sort of seeking this wanting to heal. I was still very depressed, but I was pushing through it and trying to find financers. And one of the participants, one of the students, called me up one day, and I still remember it very clearly, I remember standing there holding the phone, holding the cordless phone, this is when people didn’t have smartphones, and she said, “I just got back from a training, and I want to do a breakthrough session with you. In eight hours, you will be free of all that’s holding you back.” And I’m like, “Okay. That’s a big order. It’s a tall order to fill, but let’s do it.” Worst case scenario, I get nothing out of it. I’m one of her guinea pigs. I think she ended up charging me very, very little money because she just got back, and she wanted to practice. So, we did an eight-hour breakthrough session. And at the end of the eight hours, I felt like the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders. I walked out of there feeling like I had completed my grief. And I felt free. And she said at the end of it, “You should really look into doing these courses.” I’m like, “Yeah, you’re right. I should really look into doing these courses.” I mean, I had to raise money for it. I had to create a business plan because this was all of a sudden going to be my direction. And I ended up on taking the practitioner, the master practitioner, the trainer’s training. That was in 2005.

And I can’t believe the things I saw that year and then the things I did with other people. It still blows my mind, the things that NLP can do for people. I had one woman who had a phobia of being in a crowd. She could be in an empty field but if four people were surrounding her, she would have a complete nervous breakdown. So, she had a very difficult time in life because if people were at close proximity to her, she would have a phobia. And after we did the fast phobia model – I did it with other students watching so they could also learn. At the end of the fast phobia model, not only did she not have the phobia, she forgot that she had the phobia. The memory of the phobia was deleted. Sometimes when we complete something, it is deleted from the brain. I mean, it’s just the brain is so complete with it. So, she no longer remembered that she ever had the phobia, to begin with. Luckily, I had other students watching. Otherwise, I would have been like, “Am I crazy? Did I like to drop into a different dimension?” We just cleared your phobia and you’re telling me you didn’t have a phobia. But it was one of those things where you can take someone who’s had a lifelong crippling phobia and within minutes, it’s no longer a problem. It’s so amazing. And you feel so empowered to help others, right?

So, my experience of NLP, it’s like how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Because it doesn’t stop after becoming a trainer. It’s just the beginning. And it just keeps going and going. And it’s so beautiful. So, I love that you were part of the early movement to develop NLP, develop all the tools. And what I loved about Richard Bandler and John Grinder’s work is that they looked around the therapy model in the United States at the time and they said, “In therapy, we’re either looking at what’s normal or abnormal but we’re not looking at excellence.” The whole concept, the whole American dream is like about excellence, right? So, what is it about therapy that’s just like you’re normal, okay, good? Stamp of approval, you’re normal. Keep going. But no one was looking at creating excellence. And I love that they found and modeled those rare therapists who were creating excellence and then develop the tools to teach anyone to repeat the same results. So, it’s exciting that you have this unique perspective of NLP since you were there at the beginning and helped formulate it.



[26:30] Art Giser: I love that story. You do see so many miracles with NLP. It’s amazing. And you mentioned the work on grief. There’s an NLP grief process that the first time I learned of it, I was reading it in a book. I hadn’t even been taught it. A woman client came in who her son had died in a fishing accident when he was 17, that has been 13 years ago, and she goes, “I want to be able to think about him without crying.” And one session would change it. So, I got this reputation about being this miracle grief worker. I’m doing it like a cookbook. I mean, she doesn’t know that. But I’m thinking, okay, Step 1, Step 2. I had never done it before. But that’s how powerful NLP is. The processes are incredibly amazing. And I found when you combine that with energetic work, it’s like one plus one equals 100. It just opens up more and more possibilities.



[27:38] Ashley James: That’s interesting. I studied with Tad James, of no relation. I think it’s really funny because I studied with him and then he hired me as a sales manager, that’s why I moved to the States. So, I worked for him for a while. After I became a trainer, I worked for a whole year doing NLP with companies and doing a lot of business work, which was so much fun, because I was hired to go into these businesses and do personal growth work with the staff, with the sales staff. And the whole intent is to make more sales, but my covert mission was to transform their lives. And it was so funny because we did. When someone has their lives transformed, of course, their sales are up because they’re happy, they’re more congruent. [inaudible] people better. They’re able to serve people better because they feel more whole and more complete and more congruent.

And so, I had a lot of fun with that. And then I went back the next year. After a year of doing that, I went back to assist at all the training. One of my best friends took the training. And during the time I was assisting the whole summer through the training – a lot of people do assist where once they’ve taken the courses, they can then – a lot of trainers would allow people to assist for free. It gives them sort of free work and then the assistants can review all of the info. And during that time, I was asked to come work for Tad James. So, I was on staff with him. And then I met my husband and my husband has the same last name, of no relation. But it was really funny because I married my husband and then all of a sudden, I became Ashley James. So, I had to answer the phone, “Tad James company. This is Ashley James speaking, of no relation.” Not like his daughter or something. But it was a great experience. And I got to see even further the change work.

What’s interesting is that Tad very early on saw that there needed to be a spiritual component to NLP. And NLP, it feels very Science based. And then he started studying Huna and bringing in spiritual work and energy work, and it just – the marriage between the two, I saw just – it was just fluid. It made so much sense that we’d have this doctors and scientists and businessmen come in and they think it’s very science-based and then by the end of it, they’re all doing more metaphysical work too. And it works. So, I completely understand why there’s just this missing link in therapy. It’s like if someone only does talk therapy, there’s just this missing link of spiritual, physical energetic. All of the aspects of who we are need to be addressed. Of course, it would make sense that you address the energetic along with the emotional, along with the mental work. It makes complete sense. In your early years of NLP, and also in the greeting spiritual energetic work, what kind of changes did you see that you can make in yourself that you’re excited and surprised by?



[30:48] Art Giser: Boy, that should be an easy question because I’ve made so many. The first thing I would say is I think both for the NLP in general and Energetic NLP, some things feel like changes. You mentioned NLP studies excellence and you can add skills, a lot of the work that I do, I do that work too, is more like unleashing what was already there. So, when people go through really big changes, often, they feel different, but they feel like, “Oh, this is me.” It’s a little bit like the example, the one that you gave with the phobia, that couldn’t even remember she even had the phobia because now she was operating out of who she was, not as some programming.


[31:35] Ashley James: You don’t remember the old you that holding you back, or those old conflicts because they’ve integrated back into you and you’re now whole.



[31:43] Art Giser: It’s bad for business. I was warned about this when I first studied NLP. Sometimes I have people write a letter to themselves and then give it back to them later, and they’ll go like, “I know I wrote this. I know it’s my handwriting, but I can’t even relate to it.”



[32:00] Ashley James: I do the same thing with the Facebook timeline, because I’ve been in Facebook since 2007, and I go back and see the things that I wrote. I mean, I studied NLP in 2005 but in 2007, I joined Facebook and I see what I wrote even back then. I have a journal from high school, but yeah, you’re right. You look back ten years ago or more and you’re like, it says, “I wrote this but that’s not who I am anymore.” So, that makes total sense. Well, let’s ask the question a different way.



[32:28] Art Giser: The most enormous example was it got me from being incredibly stuck to being incredibly free. And it got me away from perfectionism and trying to be right to – in fact, when I teach an Energetic NLP program, one thing that’s different about Energetic NLP the most energetic spiritual systems is the way we treat beliefs and concepts. So, when I look at somebody’s energy field, I don’t see this – you look at the little models, they look like little tornadoes and they do this and that, and I can see that if I want to that way. But I don’t think that’s what’s going on at all. I think that’s the way our unconscious mind is representing something vast and multi-dimensional and complex. So, I’ve taken the idea of models from NLP and brought it into that work. So, I made up a term called “beliefs du jour” like plate du jour or soup jour. When I’m teaching people, “These are my beliefs du jour. And I’m not attached to them. If you have better beliefs, that’s great. And I’m not attached to you believing what I believe.” Because in my work, my goal is that people tap more and more into their inner human wisdom and into their spiritual information and inside knowledge. And so, I don’t care if it agrees with what I’m saying or not. What I’m saying is to help them open up their beliefs and challenge them and then find their truth. And if it’s the same as mine, that’s great. If it’s different, that’s great. And if I like theirs better, I’ll tell them I’ll steal it and start teaching what you said.

NLP did that. It got me out of that. I mean, I now realize I was so stuck because I had put myself in a box. I felt like I was failing myself by having been in this job so long, so I had to prove myself with whatever I did next. So, of course, it was a terror of whatever I do next. What if I don’t prove myself in trying to be right and all these things? So, opening up to the joy and freedom of – even enjoying sometimes going, “Oh, I was wrong then. And this is a better idea. This is a better idea.” You’re not even going to say that I was wrong. But this is the next step. This is the next step. So, that’s been huge for me. It’s affected my health. I’ve had a couple of really big health challenges along the way, and I’m sure the Energetic NLP work made a huge difference in – I usually see that in my clients and students. I say “usually” because nothing always works. Sometimes it’s somebody’s path to die, that’s kind of a whole other story. But it’s changed my relationships. It’s changed how I approach everything I do in life. So, that’s why it’s almost hard to answer. It’s like “What’s changing?”

And another thing is people always liked me, but I had rough edges. My parents are both from Boston and had that kind of east coast “in your face” kind of thing. And I grew up in Southern California, so it wasn’t a fit. So, people like me, so I got away with it. But I was stepping on toes a lot more than I realized. NLP just gave me incredible skills about how to be more influential with people, and kinder. To more lead them to an idea rather than smash them for being – it wasn’t my intention to smash them. But I was the kind of person who’d go, “Why are you saying that? That’s wrong.” And not meaning this as an attack, which is like in New York City or something, you can talk like that. Just learning how to influence other people. I was anti-corporate. And then when I started working in corporations like you’re talking about sales, I had the same kind of experiences. And I was shocked. I thought salespeople are all going to be superficial and limited. And in fact, a lot of them were interested in personal spiritual growth because they know that matters. And I realized that with more women in corporations and more younger people and just the baby boomers too, that people were trying to get out of the old corporate model. So, it was fantastic to go in and help people be better leaders, help teams are more effective by being more human, by bringing out the best in each other rather than through power moves. And I would tell people I feel a little like Robinhood, that they’re paying me to change them. The only difference is they’re making more money too. So, unlike Robinhood, it was working for the corporation, but it was making them more human and it’s more effective. I was surprised at how much fun that was.


[37:52] Ashley James: Yeah, me too. Absolutely. I had this one guy, he was the manager of this electronic store, this high-end electronic store, in Trois-Rivieres, Quebec, I speak little French, he speaks half English. We managed growing up. I grew up in Toronto. And at the time, we were all sitting around the table, we’re releasing negative emotions, timeline therapy, which is something that Tad created but it’s – you can consider it sort of an offshoot of NLP because NLP is just the collection of these great tools.


[38:28] Art Giser: Right.


[38:29] Ashley James: And we get to releasing the root cause, the root of sadness. And I said to him, “Are you ready? You have to consciously get that you’re congruent and you’re ready to let go.” And I’d been doing this work for a year and I’d never met someone who said no. Of course, you want to let go of the root cause of sadness. You want to resolve all the sadness inside of you so that you gain all the positive learnings and you’re no longer holding on to neurologically – all the sadness. Of course, you want to. He was stone cold. He had very little circulation in his face or his neck. And it was like the middle of winter, so we were all bundled up anyway. I could just see his neck and his face, but he was white as a ghost. I just kind of chalk that up to being Canadian. He just had a stone-cold face and he said, “No.”

So, I pressed a little bit. And I’d already kind of pre-famed it that we want to be very congruent. We want to let go of unresolved negative emotions from our past so that when we deal with our customers, we can then be clear to really help them and be of service and also be able to be better at our job, make more money. So, they all wanted that. And he agreed he wanted that. But when we came to releasing sadness, he couldn’t do it. And he just wouldn’t. He had a block. And I said, “Okay. What’s going on? Tell me about that.” He said, “I cannot let go of sadness because I saw my grandmother burn to death at a house fire when I was three. And I hold on to the sadness to honor her.” And of course, as you know, in NLP, we immediately think of what kind of reframes that we can use to help them see it in a different way. And it just came to me. It was like lightning. Right out of my mouth, I said, “Do you realize you’ve been honoring your grandmother with the wrong emotion? When you think of her, you want to feel love.” And his eyes became huge like saucers. He was like in his 50s. So, he’d been doing this for – he was probably 53. Probably been doing this for 50 years, holding on to sadness to honor his grandmother and pulling himself down. He had lowered immune system. There are all kinds of physiological things that can occur when we are holding on to sadness.

And as I said that, and it registered, I saw redness. I saw color coming into his neck and start to come up – not red like anger, but red like circulation – started to come up his neck and his cheeks got red. His eyes were wide. And as I saw the redness creep up his face, he said – I said, “Okay. Are you ready to let go of sadness?” And he slams his hand down on the table and he goes, “Yes.” And it was congruent. We were doing this a group. Everyone was releasing their sadness. And he went back to the memory of losing his grandmother. He gained positive learning to let go of the sadness, let go of all the sadness from his past from other events, came back to now. And as he walked out, his regional manager, Mario, who I’ve known since I was a child, he’s a personal – sort of family friend, and Mario is the one that introduced my family to Landmark education. So, he’s really into personal growth work. And he watched this gentleman walk out and Mario did a triple take. I watched him looked at the guy, looked away and it was shocking in his face. Looked at him again, looked away, looked at him the third time, and he pulled me aside and said, “What did you do to that man? I’ve known him for 15 years. I have never seen him smile. He looks like a completely new person.”

And it was just so cool that I was hired to help them do more sales but what I got to do was transform their life. And I’ve stayed in touch with Mario. And that man ended up changing positions because they had multiple store locations, he ended up giving up his position for a different position in a store much closer to home so he could make a smaller commute, so he could spend more time with his children and wife. And what I was told was that after that day, completely changed his life, his marriage improved, his relationship with his kids improved, his relationship, because he was holding everyone off at a distance because of the sadness that he decided he needed to hold on to honor his grandmother. You can go into a corporation to help a corporation make more money but end up transforming their lives with these tools. That has a ripple effect. His kids now a better life. His wife has a better life. All the people he touches has a better life. So, yeah, absolutely, we can go in and take NLP, like you can take NLP to corporations, but you end up transforming people’s lives. And so, I love the work that you do.

Now I’m sure listeners at this point are thinking that they want to learn this too. Can someone go and learn Energetic NLP from you? How does that work?


[43:35] Art Giser: They can. Going back to the story I said at the beginning when I can answer the man’s questions on a folded piece of paper, everybody can do that. Everybody has miraculous abilities. There’s this belief out there that only some of us were born with special abilities. It’s nonsense. It’s not everybody’s path. It’s not everybody’s interest. But I just want people to know everybody can do miraculous things. It’s normal. It’s just a matter of clearing the programming, things that block us, learning how to do it safely and learning to open up. And I lead programs both in-person workshops. I do a lot of online training programs that are a mixture of – you’re probably familiar with Zoom. Other people may not be. Zoom is this great platform now where you can do video meetings and you can then even – just like in a real workshop, you can put people in a video room together, like three people, they can practice. They can ask me questions. I can pop in. I can bring everybody back together again. So, I’ve been, the last couple of years, learning how to use that. So, I do a lot of both online training, in-person training. I do free Facebook Lives most weeks, times like when I’m working in London and stuff. I’m not always doing them. But most weeks, on Thursdays, I do a Facebook Live on the Energetic NLP page. I do a lot of other webinars. So, yes, I’m teaching all the time. It’s interesting I work with both people that are complete newbies and people that are advanced. Some of the people in my programs have worked with energy for 30 years and people that are brand new and we figured out ways to do that that works for everybody, which makes it fun and gratifying.

[45:35] Ashley James: That’s very cool.


[45:37] Art Giser: Most of the people are somewhat experienced, but the complete newbies are fine. Part of that is because in Energetic NLP, when we work with somebody, we always have them put their inner wisdom and their spirit in charge of what happens for them, so not what I think they need. Sometimes I’m putting on my NLP coach hat on and tells somebody, “This is me as a coach giving you advice.” But when I’m doing the energy work, I’m being guided by their inner wisdom and spirit. They’re in charge. So, I can have 100 people in the room and there can be 100 different experiences going on. And everybody’s getting different mixtures of energy, and the energies are doing different things. Once I figured out how to do that, it just opened up a whole possibility of what can happen in the training and the teaching. So, it works amazingly well.


[46:33] Ashley James: I know you’ve sort of just answered this question, but I think I want to dive a bit deeper. What is the difference between – like the NLP that I learn, maybe with someone who went and study with Richard Bandler or studied with Tad James or someone else or they’ve read a bunch of NLP books, what’s the difference between that and Energetic NLP, which is what you teach?


[46:55] Art Giser: Well, just pure NLP, if I can call it that, has nothing to do with energy work. One of the ideas that I got from NLP that I believe in is that every way of thinking is both a strength and a weakness. And so, the goal is to have different ways of thinking that you can change according to the situation. So, the great strength of traditional NLP was you treat everything as internally generated. Everything’s coming from your conscious mind, your unconscious mind how you’re processing information and the stimulus from the outside world. In energetic work, that’s not necessarily true. We’re like radio receivers. We’re picking up energies, thoughts, emotions from other people. Some of what’s going on inside of us aren’t us. And sometimes, people think that’s some little scam. I’m not talking about possession. But we’re being influenced by energies in our space, and that started when people were in the womb. So, let’s say somebody’s in the womb, and their mother or their father or somebody is anxious. Well, the spirit of the fetus knows they often are doing this out of love, but they also know that if the giants are in trouble, they’re in big trouble.

So, often, we start absorbing the energies from our parents that they’re having trouble handling. And what happens is you can get somebody as 50 years old going, “I’m anxious. I’ve always been anxious. I don’t know why I’m anxious. I do meditation. And I can calm down. I’m doing NLP. I can handle it. I’m just an anxious person. That’s just my DNA.” And a lot of times, most of the times, what we’ll find is that they’ve absorbed anxiety energy from other people. And because it’s somebody else’s energy, you can’t heal it. You can handle it. You can suppress it. You can do things with it, but you can’t heal it. In Energetic NLP, people learn how to release it, so which is not there anymore. And a lot of – any strong emotion or pattern that people have that they’ve worked on and they just can’t – maybe they make it better, but they can’t heal it or get rid of it. It’s probably mostly not their energy, which is why they’re having a problem.

So, I know you’re familiar with parts working. In NLP, we work with the different aspects of the unconscious mind and refer to them as parts. And very often, they’re creating internal conflicts and we work to resolve those. When you add in energy work, sometimes when you drain out the energy that isn’t the person’s, sometimes the part is gone. So, in NLP, we’d always be trying to work it out in a dialogue with other parts of you. But sometimes, like when we drain the energy, the parts are just gone. And if you had worked up this internal compromise, it’s inauthentic because part of it is just not you. It’s programming. It may sound odd to people that energy can contain emotions and programming. But the only way that human beings can communicate is through energy. That’s how people are listening to us right now. Even if we were in the same room, we move our mouths and our tongues and our lips. It vibrates molecules in the air. It goes to the bones in our ears. It gets changed in the neurochemical information and then the brain interprets that back into what we call sounds.

So, all information transfer is energetic. And it’s funny. Sometimes people go, “I don’t know if I believe that energy can have emotions.” And I’ll go, “Have you ever been to a sporting event?” And even the most straightway newscasters, the energy of the crowd is amazing because they feel it. Nowadays, people have huge TVs and great sound systems, they still would go to a bar or a pub or a game or a concert in person. Even though often, you can hear it better at home, but you don’t get the energy of the crowd in the same way.


[51:14] Ashley James: Right. Right. I was just thinking of doing an NLP like online course versus live. The energy of sitting with someone is vastly different than sitting online. Although if someone can’t come to live training, they should learn it online. It’s not to discredit learning online. The learning will happen. But I like being in person for the energy, for the experience of picking up and feeling the people in the room. There’s just something very unique to that, so I know exactly what you’re talking about.


[51:48] Art Giser: I think that’s normally true. And I do think in person live is the gold standard. That’s the best. But in Energetic NLP, when we have people online, we connect them energetically. We create energy spaces. So, most of the work I do with people is remote work. 99% of it. I work with people all over the world, and they feel the energy. And so, I teach my students how to create. So, when three of them are working, like the resume call, they’re not just on video, they’re connecting energetically. They’re in the energy spaces together. And while it’s – I wouldn’t say it – as good as being in person, it’s pretty darn close. It’s amazingly close.


[52:33] Ashley James: Could you connect with me or with the audience to do some change work today?


[52:39] Art Giser: Yeah, I’d be happy to.


[52:41] Ashley James: I don’t know if you can connect with people that are going to be listening to this in the future and give some advice to all the people listening if that’s something that is in your wheelhouse.


[52:53] Art Giser: Oh, yeah.


[52:54] Ashley James: Because that would be cool.


[52:56] Art Giser: Yeah. I’ll do that in a minute. What I’ll just explain to people is that when people listen to the recordings of when I’m doing energy work, they access the energy. How that works is an interesting story. But in some ways, the energies exist outside of linear time. If people are listening to this as a recording, if they pretend it’s happening right now while they’re listening to it, the energies would be there. People tell me they use recordings that I made 10 years ago and stuff all the time and they feel the energies. In fact, one man, I knew him through business things, and he wasn’t sure about all this energy stuff. But he was listening to one of my recordings on his phone while he was doing other work, and he goes, “I wasn’t even paying any attention.” He started doing stuff on his computer. He goes, “All of a sudden, tears were coming to my eyes and I’m shaking and I’m releasing all this stuff.” And he goes, “I was so not expecting anything to happen.” So, it wasn’t like a placebo, because he was sure nothing was going to happen.

And so, we’ll connect people. We can connect people who aren’t on the call yet. And how that works, in the advanced Energetic NLP programs, we work a lot with time and working outside of time, which is very, very interesting. I want people to know, for Energetic NLP to work, it’s not faith healing. You don’t have to believe anything. People can block the work. So, if they’re going, “This can’t work,” they could block it. But if they’re going, “I don’t necessarily believe this, but okay, I’m open to finding out,” that’s all of the more permission they need to give. So, they don’t have to believe it is or isn’t going to work. If anybody’s listening to this while they’re driving, I’m going to ask them to either pull over or turn it off because I will start working with the energies and the energies are designed to make you go inward for deep transformation. And that’s not how you want to be when you’re driving.


[55:10] Ashley James: I know exactly what you mean. The other day, I was working with a client and I started to do some shifting with her while she was driving, and she had to pull over. I’m like, “Okay. Maybe I shouldn’t be doing this work with people.” Because she’s like everything was like the world was spinning around her. Like she was having a very physiological reaction to the change work. I’m like, “Okay. Let’s park and we’ll pick this back up.”


[55:37] Art Giser: Yeah. People, would they get away with it? Probably. It’s like driving fast when it’s raining. You’ll probably get away with it but something horrible could happen. So, not worth it. So, there’s a couple of ways. First, I can just run some energy for people. And then if you want, I can teach them a technique.


[56:03] Ashley James: Oh, sounds great.



[56:05] Art Giser: Okay. So, I’m going to describe this as visualizations. It doesn’t matter whether people consciously see it or not. I know some people don’t visualize well. I used to be a terrible visualizer. And it doesn’t matter. If you just pretend, you’re seeing it, then your unconscious mind will see it. And that’s perfectly fine. So, the only way to block this is if people are going, “Am I doing it right? Is it working?” So, I just ask people just have whatever experience you’re having without judging it. And then, later on, you will or won’t notice some differences. And some of the most powerful energy work I’ve ever received from world-famous healers; I didn’t always feel it that much in the moment. And sometimes, it’s more like an hour later, “Oh, okay. Something happened.”

So, a long way of saying, it doesn’t matter if they feel it or not. It doesn’t matter if they think profound thoughts or mundane thoughts. It doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is that they give permission for their inner wisdom and spirit to be in charge. And when somebody’s inner wisdom and spirit are working together, it forms something that we call your miraculous self. Your miraculous self. And that’s when a person’s inner wisdom and spirit are working together to guide them and help them manifest their life and to heal them and nurture them. And you might think it would be automatic that your inner human wisdom and your spirit are collaborating, but it is not. And this is different than the high self. So, people try to mush the two ideas together. Your high self just exists. Your miraculous self is kind of like a muscle you may have never used. So, you have to build it.

And the first step, as a human being, as a conscious being, we have a right to make choices in our lives. So, I’d like everybody, if they want to just go, “Okay. I’m choosing and giving 100% permission for my inner wisdom and my spirit to collaborate. I’m choosing and giving 100% permission for my inner wisdom and my spirit to collaborate and form a miraculous self. For my miraculous self.” And then I’d like people just to pretend that there’s a giant gold ball of energy and that everybody listening to this conversation is inside of it while this conversation is going on. And in the end, it will dissolve. And if somebody’s listening to this, again as a recording, the gold ball will form again. And let’s imagine this gold ball is filled with gold energy and also amethyst energies. And amethyst energies are the colors you see in an amethyst crystal. They go from lavender to dark purple. And the reason people in energy work use colors is we different colors because they’re different frequencies of energy. Different frequencies of light. So, when we imagine colors in the energy, again, whether you see them or not, if you just pretend, “Okay. I’m surrounded by gold and amethyst energy,” those are energies that help with transformation, with dissolving blocks and opening up to our authentic selves and our miraculous abilities.

So, I’d just like people to pretend we’re all in this giant gold and amethyst ball of energy. And people all over the planet talk about Mother Nature, Mother Earth. Pretty much everybody’s felt that when they’re like at the beach or out in the woods or someplace in the field. Those energies are in fact everywhere. So, let’s invite that Mother Nature, Mother Earth energy to come into our gold and amethyst ball of energy. And these are energies that are nurturing, healing, energies that love us, energies that acknowledge that you have a right to exist, that you’re on the planet because you’re supposed to be on the planet. There aren’t any extra people on the planet. So, just let those energies come in.

And I’d like everybody to think of one thing in their life that they’d like to have improved. It could either be a problem or it could be an opportunity, but something they’d like enhanced or improved. And this is being recorded so you can pick something else later. Just pick one thing for now. And then give your miraculous self, your M, 100% permission to be in charge. And again, since your miraculous self is your inner human wisdom working with your spirit, whatever it decides will be what’s right for you at this moment in time. And in energy work, you’re never trying to clear all the blocks at once. It can be too big of a shift. So, just let your miraculous self choose what blocks the energy that’s coming in is going to dissolve and heal and what of your inner abilities it’s going to open up and enhance. And just give your miraculous self 100% permission to identify the blocks for right now and identify what it wants to be enhanced. Then take a couple of easy deep breaths. I’m just going to run the energy for a few minutes then I’ll teach everybody a technique they can do. But right now, it’s just intention and permission. Intention for your life to be enhanced and permission for your miraculous self to use the energies I’m bringing in to transform your life. Take a couple of easy deep breaths. Take a couple of easy deep breaths.

Sometimes, people get very serious about this. The more playful you are, the stronger it will be. So, bring out your playful inner child. As the energies are moving programming and limiting beliefs from your energy field and your unconscious mind, they’re immediately being replaced by your inner wisdom, by insights, knowledge, and wisdom from your spirit. So, as any programming gets dissolved, any beliefs get dissolved, they’re immediately replaced by your inner wisdom and information, insights, knowledge and wisdom from your spirit.

Okay. Now we’re going to bring in energies to help you process and integrate that. In this type of energy work, it doesn’t finish when we’re done. It will go on for days or even weeks of processing, which is a good thing. And I’d like to say to everybody’s unconscious minds that after listening to this, if anybody’s driving or doing anything that requires safety, I want their miraculous self and their unconscious mind to turn the processing way down, make sure they’re grounded, make sure you’re safe, make sure you’re alert. So, grounded, safe and alert. And then when you’re sleeping, that’s a good time to turn up the processing only to the level that still allows you to sleep well and not like all night long. But just a portion of when you’re sleeping, your unconscious mind can review what we just did in that energy session and your M, your miraculous self, will infuse it with your inner wisdom, infuse it with your spiritual information and make it richer and deeper and higher and wider, making it more multidimensional and make it more automatically integrated into your life. That could happen while you sleep soundly and deeply and wake up feeling refreshed. And so, the people can pay a little more attention, it’s good to stomp your feet, pat your body, your arms and your head. How are you feeling, Ashley?

[69:22] Ashley James: I’m feeling very good. You didn’t tell us to open our eyes, but I imagine you want us to open our eyes now.


[69:30] Art Giser: Yeah. Or not. Whatever you want to do.


[69:32] Ashley James: Whatever you want.


[69:33] Art Giser: Now, if there’s time, I can teach people a short powerful energy process too.


[69:39] Ashley James: Yes, we have all the time in the world. Yeah. This is a long show. My listeners know that. Because I want to get some real meat. I want to help my listeners make the changes they need. But I want to tell you about my experience. I felt it. I’d say I’m the most open-minded skeptic. I kind of go into everything like I’m open-minded but I’m not believing that anything’s like – because the perfect way to be – placebo effect can’t affect me because I’m not going in with a belief system but I’m going to be open-minded about it. But I’m also kind of skeptical. So, when stuff happens, I’m like, “Oh, that’s a surprise. I wasn’t expecting stuff to happen.” But the first few deep breaths, I started to cry, and I felt like these tingles. They’re not painful, but like pleasurable but very intense waves going up my body of tingles as I was taking the first few breaths.


[70:35] Art Giser: That’s great.


[70:36] Ashley James: That was cool. I did feel it.


[70:40] Art Giser: I’m really glad you brought that up. While I’m really glad you felt it, and I will remind people, it’s fine if you don’t feel it. And sometimes, when the energy is going on, people temporarily feel discomfort. And that’s blocks being worked on. And sometimes, that’s just the way it shows up. So, that’s okay if they felt temporary discomfort. Sometimes, emotions come up and they’re coming up to be released. So, if people do like you did and just let it flow, that’s perfect. If they start going, “Why am I feeling this,” they can trip over themselves. It’s just old stuff you’re releasing, so you don’t have to do anything with it. Just let it go.


[71:25] Ashley James: Makes total sense. Absolutely.


[71:28] Art Giser: So, I teach people this technique, and like anyone technique, this is just a tiny portion of what’s possible, and it’s a super powerful technique. Many people who this is the only thing I’ve taught them and told me it’s made a difference in their lives. So, it’s a little tiny piece of what’s possible, and it’s a little powerhouse. And the way it works relies on the unconscious mind and energetically and spiritually, in spiritual systems, they often go symbol and reality are one. Symbol and reality are one. So, if you imagine something mean something, your unconscious mind and your spirit will go, “Okay. Sure, I’ll do that.” And it’s something I used to use a lot in my NLP work, too, that you give people a symbol or metaphor for something to work with and then all of sudden, it would open up an ability even though you unconsciously know how it’s working. So, this technique is for clearing other people’s energy and old energies out of our energy field.

And so, Ashley, and anybody that’s listening, if you look at your hands right now, imagine what your hands would look like if you never washed them in your entire life, they’d be coated with all kinds of gunk and stuff. You would have trouble moving and flexing your fingers, because of all the crud on them. And the worst part would be you would think that was you. You would think all that junk was just authentically part of you. Genetically, that’s what my skin looks like, my hands look like. Then if you fell in a lake and it got washed off, you’d look at your real hands and go, “What’s this? I can move my fingers. This feels better. Boy, it doesn’t hurt as it did.” And the same way our energy fields are constantly collecting stuff. Most people would be appalled at how much of the energy in their energy field is not theirs. And the energy in your energy field doesn’t have to be 100% yours because some energies are like food, we’re using them. But people tend to have their energy field stuff with other people’s energy. And when you’re being intimate with somebody, whether it’s an intimate conversation or sexually intimate or any other kind of intimacy, it feels good to merge energies.

But what people don’t do is separate back out. But we also merge energies with people we don’t like and with energies that are just around. So, we’re constantly being affected by energies that aren’t authentic to us. And as I mentioned earlier, any emotional state that somebody goes, I feel it too often or I handle it badly and I worked on it, it’s better but it’s not where I want it to be. There’s about 99% chance that a lot of the energy isn’t yours, and that’s why you can’t get it where you want it to be because we can always deal with our authentic energies. You mentioned grief earlier. We can deal with our authentic grief. But when somebody’s feeling grief, they tend to pull in other people’s grief energy. And other people get triggered by their grief and start releasing their grief energy. And then all of a sudden, you can handle it. And I think that one of the reasons for road rage is people leave all kinds of energy on the highways and roads and a lot of its frustrations, anger, they’re in traffic jams. And if somebody starts getting upset when they’re driving, sometimes you open up a portal and similar energies just flood in. And all of a sudden, they’re crazy. They’re out of control.


[75:22] Ashley James: It’s funny you should say that. I had on the show before a man named Eric Thorton. He’s been on the show a few times and he’s a local spiritual healer. He talks to angels and guides. His whole life, since he was born, he could just see them and talk to them. He thought everyone could until he realized he’s different. But I’ve interviewed him in person. I’ve met him a few times. So, it’s been really interesting. He seems like a normal guy. He was a carpenter for 20 years. But when he was 12 years old, without any carpenter experience, his angels and guides, or whoever talks to him, told him how to remodel his mom’s kitchen. So, that’s what started. He had no formal training and he became a finished carpenter. Very good at it. He’s at that level where his gifts were turned on.

And like you said, everyone can tap into these gifts and he’s just been working on it for 50 years. So, he’s got more experience. But he said something very similar. What you just said reminded me. He said that if someone has unresolved anger, it’s almost like a magnet on their chest, and then they pull in all this other anger energy until there’s all these magnets sort of built upon them. All this anger kind of drawn to them because that’s the energy that they’re holding on to, that they have a process that they’re sort of projecting. And so, an angry person can attract more anger in their life. And he thinks it’s almost like a mechanism in order for us to heal it. If we’re not going to heal it when it’s a whisper, maybe we’ll heal it when it’s like a 2×4 hitting us over the head. And so, those who are sad will attract all the sadness and all these other people that have sadness until they finally wake up and heal it and see what angered it. It’s like it will just compound until we finally address it until we finally wake up and address it. People just suck it and pull in energy that complements the energy they’re holding on to.

So, it’s similar to what you said, that if we were experiencing some road rage or some frustration on the road, that because there’s other people around us, we kind of pick up on it and it will amplify. When I was a kid, I would have tummy aches all the time from my parents fighting. They’d be in another room and sometimes, I wouldn’t even know they fight. I couldn’t hear them but I would get very intense feelings in my body like I was walking on eggshells and anxiety and my tummy would be in a clinch and I’d feel like I had to almost hide because of the amount of anger coming off of both of them. It was very scary. And I didn’t know, as a child, how to deal with it. But now looking back, I can see I was picking up on their energies that they were putting off. And my body was physiologically reacting to the energies they were putting off.


[78:23] Art Giser: Wow. That exactly. What you can learn to do, what I’ve been taught, and I’ve included as a big part of Energetic NLP, is we would say everybody’s the sovereign of their energy field. So, you hear all this stuff about energy vampires and people doing this and that. And I understand how people see it that way. What I was taught and what I found to be true is we’re all the sovereigns of our energy field. And if another energy is, to say, stuck in there, it has to hook into something of ours. Now it could be unconscious. It could be karma. It could be spiritual contracts. It can be energetic programming. So, we start looking at that as a gift. It’s similar to what the healer you’re talking about was saying. You can use it to go, “Okay. What in me is that hooking into? And then if I heal what it’s hooking into and I kind of release that energy, but my life gets better. Because I’ve cleared what’s authentic.” And there’s a lot of amazing energy workers who don’t know about that. And so, I’ll get healing from somebody and I feel fantastic later, but it’s like the old joke a half hour, you’re hungry again. Because they haven’t gotten the Velcro, the hooks that were in me. So, eventually, something hooks again. So, in Energetic NLP, we’re always going, “Okay. If I’ve absorbed that person’s anger, what is it in me that’s allowing that and then how do I heal or change that?”


[79:57] Ashley James: I love this philosophy. And I can see where the NLP comes into play because it has them shift to personal responsibility. It has them shift instead of being the victim of these energies happening to them, they’re now shifting to be a cause in the world and be 100% responsible for their change, which then empowers them.


[80:16] Art Giser: It’s a great story, but I’m going to make it just really short. I used to go to a spiritual center in Brazil. And people often go off, “I open up to energies. What if I connect with something negative?” And there are simple things to do around it. But this one time, I connected with the most – I don’t intend to use the word “evil” but that would be a good description of this energy. It was intense and malevolent. It entered my dreams. And when I woke up, it was still there. It was there. And I was kind of half awake, so I’m doing things to clear my energy. It’s getting better but it’s not working. Finally, I got awaken up to just kind of in my mind go, “I’m the sovereign of my energy field. You’re irrelevant to me. You can be in my room or not. But I don’t care because you have no power.” And soon as I did that, it was gone. And because my resistance to it and my giving it power was giving it power. And as soon as I recognize like, “I’m not giving you any power, you’re in my space. And you don’t even have to leave because you don’t any power here. You’re irrelevant to me.” And I’d thought that to the energy, like, “You’re irrelevant. I don’t care. Be here, don’t be here, what do I care?” And then it just [inaudible]. And I’d say, so many people are afraid they’re going to run into something negative. But those things don’t have power. It comes back to a very NLP viewpoint. It’s like if something’s having power in my space, I don’t care what in me is letting it. And then how do I heal and change that? And usually, it’s pretty easy.

[82:04] Ashley James: I love it. That’s such a great reframe. 100% puts the power back in the person’s corner. I love it. Excellent. Well, I’m excited to learn this technique.


[82:16] Art Giser: So, the techn