David Tomen And Ashley James


  • What Nootropics and different Nootropics for pain relief
  • Different natural pain relief supplements
  • Benefits of using lion’s mane and where it’s from
  • Benefits of encapsulating own supplements
  • Benefits of kratom and other uses for kratom
  • What rhodiola rosea is and other uses
  • Benefits of using PQQ
  • Benefits of using CBD oil and its difference hemp oil
  • How NAC works
  • How to get consultation from David Tomen and what you get from his consultation


In this episode, David Tomen will share with us today about different nootropics for pain relief. He shares where each nootropic is from and what other benefits does the nootropics have aside from pain relief. He will also share with us different scientific studies and researches that support the use of nootropics for pain relief.


[0:00] Intro: Hello true health seeker and welcome to another episode of Learn True Health Podcast.      

Today’s a really exciting interview for those who are looking for pain relief naturally. David Tomen, the Nootropics Expert is back on the show with us. We do mention a bunch of supplements and herbs that you can use to support yourself. One of them being CBD. My favorite company to get CBD from is medterracbd.com. I had the founder on the show. You can listen to that episode by searching CBD on my website learntruehealth.com. We have a coupon code from them. They’re very generously giving us a big discount to all the listeners. So go to medterracbd.com and use the coupon code LTH at checkout.

Why I like their CBD? It is organic, it is very clean and they guarantee that you will pass a drug test because it is just pure CBD. Now they will be coming out in the future with a whole plant supplement which has all the other wonderful phytonutrients in it that are also very healthy and supportive. So just go to their website, check it out medterracbd.com. You can also listen to the episode I did on that. I have several episodes with doctors and experts in CBD so you can fully dive into understanding that whole wonderful world. David Tomen talks a lot about different herbs. Some of them are controversial and that’s okay because he is all about the science. So on his website,  , he sites every single scientific study and research paper when he discusses different herbs and supplements so that he can site exactly the dosages that you can safely take. Thank you so much for being a listener.

If you haven’t heard already, because I have mentioned it in the last few episodes, we are coming out with a very exciting membership the Learn True Health Home Kitchen membership. You will be able to join it and learn how to cook delicious, healthy whole food plant-based meals for you and your whole family. So if you’re looking to go completely plant-based, that will be a fantastic resource for you. Or if you just love to learn how to introduce more wonderful vegetables into your diet and eat even healthier, you will absolutely love our membership. Go ahead and join the Learn True Health Facebook group by searching Learn True Health on Facebook and go to learntruehealth.com and join our newsletter so you will be abreast of all of the news that comes your way as we launch the new membership. We’ve been filming and it has been so much fun. I can’t wait for you to learn all these delicious whole food plant-based recipes. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day and enjoy today’s interview.

Welcome to the Learn true health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 389.


[0:03:29] Ashley James: I am so excited today to have back on the show, David Tomen. He is the NootropicsExpert.com. He was on the show in episode 362 and 374. If you haven’t listened to those episodes, you definitely have to go back check out David Tomen’s story as to why he became the nootropics expert. For those who don’t nootropics are and are just getting into, this is their first taste of the David Tomen experience. David, can you start by sharing what are you nootropics?


[0:04:00] David Tomen: Hi Ashley.


[0:04:02] Ashley James: Hi.


[0:04:03] David Tomen: Thank you for having me back. Nootropics are any type of dietary supplement that helps your brain.


[0:04:09] Ashley James: Exactly. So, all the good stuff that supports the cardiovascular system to the brain that supports the balance of chemicals in the brain. Everything that just supports the neurological system


[0:04:22] David Tomen: What makes your brain work. Yeah. Our brain is, as far as I know, is the most complex thing in the universe that we know of. The deeper I get into the neuroscience the more, I’m no longer blown away just because it’s just so incredibly interesting and deep and we’re a long way from figuring it out. But the little bit that we have figured out, the neuroscience that I have available now and that I’ve got thousands and thousands and thousands of links to clinical studies and all the stuff that I’ve done on NootropicsExpert.com is just supporting what we already, we know that this stuff works and now we’re starting to understand why it works.


[0:05:17] Ashley James: Yeah. That’s so cool. I love it. Well, people have been using for thousands of years, have been using herbs, natural nootropics. Now we’re understanding why they work. That’s pretty amazing. Everything from mushroom and herbs, minerals to how now we see why these supplements are supporting the body and supporting the neurosystem in a really positive why. I think they just recently came out with some discovery about the brain that I found fascinating. You probably already heard of it but there’s a type of cell in the brain that is responsible for cleaning up the old tissue. We really want these cells to be happy because when those cells are not happy, they actually start to digest healthy tissue in the brain. One thing that causes them to go haywire and digest healthy tissue in the brain is lack of sleep. Have you heard of this, that lack of sleep causes the brain to basically eat itself? So something as simple as sleep is highly supportive of brain health. So, of course, that’s one thing that you teach is all the things on your amazing website nootropicsexpert.com, how we can maintain a lifestyle to promote the best brain health possible.


[0:06:45] David Tomen: Including how to get a good night’s sleep.


[0:06:47] Ashley James: Yes. Exactly. Because there are nootropics to support help us –


[0:06:51] David Tomen: To help us sleep.


[0:06:52] Ashley James: Yeah. Something as simple, almost everyone know what melatonin is, is melatonin a nootropic?


[0:06:57] David Tomen: Yes. I consider it a nootropic but I wouldn’t use melatonin. The reason why is because melatonin is, well it goes 5HTPN then serotonin and then melatonin. So your brain naturally produces melatonin, but when you go to buy a melatonin supplement, almost every single melatonin supplement on the market is synthetic. The chemical process that they go through to make melatonin is just scary reading the thing. The other thing that they found out, well a couple of other things. The melatonin supplements, they’re dosed too high because you only use like 0.5 to 0.8 of melatonin naturally. These things are like 3 mg, 5 mg, 10 mg so they’re way, way overdosed. But the other thing is that the label doesn’t jive with what’s in the capsule. Somebody actually did a clinical study and they bought a bunch of melatonin supplements. I actually linked to this in one of my posts. They bought like 25 different melatonin supplements. Then they tested them in a lab to find out how much melatonin was in each capsule. What they found out that it ranges anywhere from -75% to 450% more than what was stated in the label.


[0:08:24] Ashley James: Wow.


[0:08:26] David Tomen: So, if you buy a 3 mg melatonin supplement and the thing is actually got 50 mg of melatonin in it, you can really mess yourself up. The other thing that they found is some of these manufacturers were actually putting serotonin in the supplement which is not even legal.


[0:08:47] Ashley James: Wow.


[0:08:51] David Tomen: Yeah. So don’t buy a melatonin supplement. Use something natural like tart cherry juice which is a natural source of melatonin. It’s a lot gentler and it will help you sleep.


[0:09:01] Ashley James: That is so true. I love tart cherry juice. It really does knock me out. That’s so funny. I also found that chlorella and spirulina, they also help the body produce melatonin because of the amino acids in it I guess. That’s pretty amazing that if I eat them I get better sleep or if I take tart cherry juice I get better sleep.


[0:09:26] David Tomen: It’s just a gentler way of introducing melatonin into your system.


[0:09:32] Ashley James: I love that. We weren’t even going to talk about sleep but I was just so fascinated by what I heard that when we don’t get enough sleep our brain digests itself. Since we’re all concerned about dementia, so many of us have seen our grandparents or are parents go through dementia or aunts and uncles. It is something that we want to obviously avoid and prevent. We can prevent it with natural medicine and understanding the nootropics that we can use to support the brain. Now, one thing that I’m interested in is helping the listeners who are in pain. Because when we are in pain, we are willing to do anything to be out of pain. I know you have a personal experience of that. Would you like to share to the listener what has happened recently?


[0:10:19] David Tomen: Four weeks ago I had my second major back surgery. It’s a laminectomy. The neurosurgeon did a couple of other things where five years prior to this I had a spinal fusion. So they put two rods attached by two screws each. So two rods and four screws in my lumbar between L4 and L5 to fuse those vertebrae together because they had degraded so much that I almost ended up in a paralyzed in a wheelchair because it had just worn out. So five years later, well this started about two years ago, the pain started to come back. Went and did the scans and discovered that the section right about that is falling apart. You know how you can look at a CT scan and an MRI of your spine? You know how your spinal column comes down? It’s nice and clear all the way down. That’s the nerves come down from your brain. The section between L3 and L4 was black. Completely black. I was in excruciating pain. So, what the surgeon did is he went in and he went in and scraped that all out and he cut off some bone. You can imagine the kind of pain that leaves you. Now, fortunately for me, I had extraordinary sciatic pain dealt down both legs down to my toes. That’s gone. But now I’m just dealing with where the surgery was done and that’s getting incrementally better a little bit day by day. I honestly think that I’m recovering a lot faster from this kind of major surgery than most people do just because of the stuff that I’m taking.


[0:12:12] Ashley James: Oh, I bet. Has the surgeon noticed that your healing has been faster?


[0:12:17] David Tomen: I haven’t talked to him since he did the surgery four weeks ago. I see him in a couple of weeks. It’s just never occurred for me to ask him.


[0:12:30] Ashley James: Well, that would be interesting. Did you expect me to have healed this far along or how many weeks did you expect this to heal? Because I have heard of other people that have been on really good supplements and really good diet and that they’ve impressed the surgeons greatly with their quick ability to heal. I even know a guy who broke both legs. He changed his whole diet to make sure it as mineral-rich, vegetables, and he healed his legs weeks, weeks before the doctors expected him to make a full recovery. He made a full recovery weeks and weeks before. It was funny because all the doctors were saying, ‘you can’t speed up your bones healing by eating better.’ Yes, you can. That’s so funny.


[0:13:25] David Tomen: I’ve got a friend in Los Angeles that owns a nootropics company. It’s one of my favorite nootropics stacks. Within the last year, he was in a major traffic accident. He just broke a lot of stuff. It was supposed to take him, the doctors told him it was going to take him eight or nine months to recover. He did in seven weeks.


[0:13:51] Ashley James: Nice.


[0:13:53] David Tomen: Just using the supplement that he sells. One of the things that I love about the supplement that he sells is it’s loaded with lion’s mane. Lion’s mane mushroom and lion’s mane mushroom just heals nerves. That’s one of its big claim to fame. They actually did a, there was a lion’s mane mushroom, I think it was someplace in Malaysia. They studied on rats in the lab. I kind of cringe when I think about how they did this, but they cut the gluteal nerves crippling the rats so the rats couldn’t walk. Then they fed them lion’s mane-laced water for the next two or three weeks. Within two weeks, these rats were walking again because their gluteal nerves had mended back together again and healed.


[0:14:53] Ashley James: That is so cool. It’s so cool. The animal cruelty is horrific but the results are great that they made a full recovery because of lion’s mane. Yeah, I just yesterday made a soup. I was shopping at our local coop called PCC. The beautiful mushrooms. All the wonderful mushrooms they have this time of year. Fall is so great for mushrooms. So, I’ve got lion’s mane. I’ve never had lion’s mane fresh before and I got lion’s mane, shiitake, oyster and chanterelles and onion, carrot and celery. I went home and I cut everything up and put it into my big, big, big, big soup pot. I simmered it for a few hours and I added some herbs like sage and thyme and rosemary. Oh my gosh. This soup is amazing. It felt so healing and so supportive of the immune system. That’s why I was doing it. It was immune system tea or like a soup. That’s like an immune system soup. Now you’re talking about how it’s healing or a startup to the nervous system so that’s even better. Maybe I’m a little smarter today.



[0:16:07] David Tomen: You probably are. Absolutely.


[0:16:12] Ashley James: So what did you do after the surgery to support yourself in decreasing the pain because obviously, your body is going through healing a wound, a big wound. There’s a lot for your body to heal and in the process, you must be in pain.


[0:16:28] David Tomen: Incredible pain. One of the things that I found is extremely effective it was kratom, which is really really controversial these days because the states are trying to ban it because they say it’s an opiate and it’s really. But it acts like an opioid receptors. I find that for me, kratom affects different people in different ways, for me it takes about 8 grams of kratom equals about 10 mg of an opioid, a prescription opioid. That’s how powerful it is. But people use kratom for not only pain but they use it for insomnia, they use it as an anxiolytic, my wife uses it to help her sleep. Then she uses a different strain to help her wake up in the morning. There’s a lot of different things you can do with this herb. The thing is that it’s completely natural. It comes from a tropical deciduous tree that’s native to the coffee family in Southeast Asia where they’ve been using it for thousands of years. The workers there use it as a natural remedy. They make tea out of it. They use it throughout their workday for energy and for pain relief.


[0:17:50] Ashley James: It’s related to the coffee plant so there’s some natural caffeine in it, right?


[0:17:56] David Tomen: There’s no caffeine in it.


[0:17:57] Ashley James: Oh, there’s no caffeine. That’s very interesting.


[0:17:58] David Tomen: There is not. But what it does is it affects the dopamine D1 receptors in your brain which helps boost energy. It also affects serotonin in norepinephrine pathways in the central nervous system. So that’s where you get relief from anxiety and depression. It’s an agonist of three different opioid receptors in your brain, which is where the pain relief comes from.


[0:18:29] Ashley James: Fascinating. Yeah. I was a little wary about kratom when I started to see these signs pop up in all the smoke shops. Not that I frequent smoke shops but you know, I’m driving by them. They have this sign outside that says, ‘Kratom sold here.’ I’m thinking, anything that a smoke shop sells is probably not good for you, right? So my red flags were up. But then I watched the documentary, A Leaf of Faith on Netflix. It’s still on Netflix. I really recommend watching A Leaf of Faith for anyone who is battling pain or has a friend or family member that’s battling pain or opioid addiction because it is a fascinating dive into the political fight on kratom and how many people are seeing results. Then, we question why if it’s all-natural and people actually get off of pharmaceutical drugs, because they get relief from kratom and there’s no deaths and overdoses. It doesn’t harm people like drugs do so it’s safe and natural and doesn’t profit the pharmaceutical companies. Then why is the government trying to shut it down but totally fine with pharmaceutical drugs that might hurt people?


[0:19:41] David Tomen: Because it’s a direct competitor to prescription medication.


[0:19:46] Ashley James: There’s a little conspiracy theory there. We got to question everything. We should always do our research and look into things to see if it’s right for us or not.


[0:20:00] David Tomen: There’s tons of misinformation out there. They’re saying they’re trying to ban it because it’s an opioid. It’s not. It’s a partial agonist of certain opioid receptors but it’s not a true opioid. In fact, it’s not an opioid. It doesn’t cause the respiratory effects that a prescription opioid does which is the reason why you can overdose on it. People do get in trouble with it for a couple of reasons. One, because its popularity has exploded that everybody and his brother is selling it. You can buy it in the local gas station which I do not recommend that you do because people are putting into these capsules stuff that should not be in those capsules. Yeah. It’s scary. You can physically get yourself in a lot of trouble if you don’t get the real stuff. So you just have to be very, very cautious about where you get it from.


[0:21:02] Ashley James: Where do you get it from?


[0:21:04] David Tomen: I use a company in Oregon called Phytoextractum. There’s another company in Pennsylvania that my wife gets it from and I can’t remember the name of the company, but I’ve got a link to Phytoextractum in my kratom review on the website. We’ve been buying it from them for years and years and they’ve been consistent. They test their stuff every which way because they’ve gotten into trouble one time. You know when one stuff is contaminated with salmonella? They said, “That will never ever happen again because our reputation is too important.” So now they test everything. They’ve got several different strains of kratom but it’s all absolutely pure. So, we buy the powder and make capsules out of it. But people also make out of it. When we first started using kratom, I didn’t know how to make capsules. So I would just put two or 3 grams in a yogurt and that’s how I would consume it which is fine. Now we make our won capsules.


[0:22:19] Ashley James: Right, because you get a jar of this powder. It’s a leaf, right? Or is it a –


[0:22:25] David Tomen: No, it’s a leaf. It’s just the leaf. So they just grind up the leaf so it’s a fine powder. Some people say you can smoke it. I wouldn’t smoke it. I don’t see the point in smoking it. I don’t know why you would smoke it. I don’t see any benefit in smoking it. You want to swallow the thing and digest it. That’s how you get the most benefit from it. Yeah. Just stick it in some yogurt or put it in some juice or a smoothie or make capsules of it. Learn what the different strains are and what they do. Then choose the strain that other people say helps them with the sleep or helps them with anxiety or helps them with pain. I find there is one strain in particular that helps me with pain.


[0:23:16] Ashley James: What strain is that?


[0:23:20] David Tomen: It’s just called Bali. It’s called Green Bali. The one from Phytoextractum. There’s another one called Red Bali that my wife uses to help her sleep. She doesn’t like using Ambien so she uses that instead. You see testimonials over and over and over and over again where people are using it to withdraw from opioid addiction, which is amazing. It really is amazing. I’ve actually got a link to a clinical study wherein the lab, they help people withdraw from opiates with a lot fewer withdrawal symptoms just by using kratom.


[0:24:11] Ashley James: Is that because it comes in and attaches with some opiate receptors? So it helps in that way?


[0:24:18] David Tomen: Yeah. It just attaches to them in a different way. I think on a different area of the receptor. A neuroreceptor is just not a neuroreceptor. There’s actually different attachment points. Kratom seems to attach to a different part of the opiate receptor than what prescription opiates do. According to the studies that I’ve seen, that’s how it works. I’ve never ever gotten high out of it, ever.


[0:24:50] Ashley James: That was my next question. What does it feel like to be on kratom?


[0:24:54] David Tomen: Less pain and less anxiety. You’re just in a better mood. You know, people talk about getting high off of it. I don’t know how to do it. You would have to use so much of it that I just like they’re talking 25 grams kratom and I just can’t imagine consuming that much. You take a 00 capsule. If you cram it, jam it jam it really really full that’s a gram. So that it’ll be like swallowing at least 25 or 30 capsules all at once. Why you want to do that, I have no idea.


[0:25:45] Ashley James: What’s the dose that you take for your pain right now managing your pain for the surgery that you’re recovering from?


[0:25:53] David Tomen: 8 to 10 grams.


[0:25:55] Ashley James: So, you make your own capsules. It’s about the size of your regular supplement capsule?


[0:26:01] David Tomen: Yeah. A large capsule.


[0:26:03] Ashley James: Okay. So a large supplement capsule. How many of those a day do you take and how long does it last?


[0:26:08] David Tomen: It lasts for about four hours. Depending on the level of pain, anywhere from 8 to 12 capsules.


[0:26:16] Ashley James: Every four hours?


[0:26:18] David Tomen: No. I do probably twice a day. Sometimes once a day.


[0:26:20] Ashley James: Maybe two to four capsules twice a day?


[0:26:25] David Tomen: No. I would do like eight capsules at once. Like in the morning maybe in the afternoon another eight capsules.


[0:26:37] Ashley James: That sounds like maybe a tablespoon of the powder I mean just to give us an idea.


[0:26:44] David Tomen: You know, people talk about tablespoons.


[0:26:48] Ashley James: I think a tablespoon is half an ounce like a shot glass, I think.


[0:26:54] David Tomen: I got a little scale by Blade that measures milligrams so I know what a gram looks like in powder piled on a scale. But if you fill up one of this 00 capsules, you’re looking at about 750 to 800 mg if it’s not packed too tight, 800 mg of powder. So, how much would that fill up a tablespoon? I don’t know. I never tried.


[0:27:20] Ashley James: Or like a regular-sized soup spoon. I’m just thinking like if someone could have an understanding of how much they’d put in their smoothie if it would be like just a spoonful.


[0:27:31] David Tomen: The best thing to do Ashley is to get one of those little scales.


[0:27:35] Ashley James: Got it.


[0:27:36] David Tomen: They’re $10.00 on Amazon, $10.00 or $12.00. The one that I have is made by, yeah it’s called Blade. It takes two AAA batteries. You switch it on and you pile some powder on it. It tells you how many grams it is or how many milligrams. Right down to the milligram.


[0:28:06] Ashley James: Got it.


[0:28:06] David Tomen: So I used to measure stuff like that but now I just kind of eyeball it because I know how much would a gram looks like.


[0:28:14] Ashley James: Right, and you figured out how much of that goes into the capsules. So it’s about eight capsules every four hours.


[0:28:22] David Tomen: I started out with a 20, what is it 20 or 25 capsules? Just this little capsule machine. That’s what I used for years. Now I’ve got one that does 100 capsules.


[0:28:33] Ashley James: You have a machine? Wow. I used to, when I was a kid, my first naturopath was Dr. D’Adamo, the creator of Eat Right for your Blood Type Diet. After seeing him, our whole family changed the whole diet and went dairy-free, wheat-free, sugar-free, yeast-free all that. He sent us home with a big powder because he had a compounding nutraceuticals clinic basically. So he compounded all of the nasty tasting, he just said drink it and I couldn’t handle it because it was raw B-vitamins you’re trying to get a 6-year-old to drink raw B-vitamins. I was brave. I chugged it and it felt it’s the most horrible taste ever.


[0:29:18] David Tomen: Well, that’s another reason why you want to encapsulate because it tastes like crap.


[0:29:22] Ashley James: Right. So he said, ‘you’re not going to drink it? We’ll make capsules.’ My entire childhood I made these capsules by hand. There was no machine back in the 80s to make our capsules for us. So I’m just laughing now that you can go on Amazon and buy a machine to make your own capsules because I sat there by hand for hours making our supplement capsules.


[0:29:42] David Tomen: You can get a 100-capsule machine from anywhere $14.00 to $20.00.  


[0:29:51] Ashley James: That is so great.


[0:29:52] David Tomen: You can buy the capsules now. You can buy the capsules either joined or separated. The separated capsules are a little bit more expensive because they have the short end in one bag and the long end in the other bag. So you just dump on one side of the capsule machine, you just dump a pile of the long part of the capsules and you shake it around and it slides into the holes. Then you dump off the excess back into the bag. Then you do the same side for the short end and then you just dump the powder on top of that. Use a credit card or something like that to spread it around to fill up the capsules. You get a little tamping thing to tamp it down then you fill a little bit more, tamp it down, fill a little bit more. Then you just put the top on and you squeeze it together. Take it off and capsules.


[0:30:42] Ashley James: That sounds so cool


[0:30:42] David Tomen: It takes me 10 minutes to make 100 capsules.


[0:30:47] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. That is so neat. To think of all the things that we could take. One of our listeners, Naomi, bought some herbs because she wanted to do her own parasite cleanse. She didn’t want to pay the big bucks to the big companies. So she got ground up and all organic and all good stuff, all the herbs. The clove and all that stuff. She made all her own capsules. I just thought how ingenious is that? If we cannot necessarily afford to take these herbs and buy them from the companies that are obviously making a profit, we cut out the middleman and go find where we can find the organic, high-quality herb ourselves and make our own capsules. But we should always make sure that we’re not taking too much, right? We should really be careful about the quality and the chain of custody. That there’s no mold on it. There’s lots of things that we need to do. If we’re going to make our own capsules, we have to really make sure that at every step in the way, that what we’re putting in our capsules is safe and clean. That’s why I like buying from companies because they’ve done the testing. I always buy from supplement companies that have done the testing for me.

Photo by Skyla Design on Unsplash


[0:32:01] David Tomen: Some of these companies you can go to their website and actually download a certificate of analysis for specific batches. The certificate of analysis is just, it’s a third-party lab that test whatever is in those capsules and they tell you on the certificate of analysis exactly what you’re getting. So look for companies that are willing to do that. Or you can either download it from their website where they say that it’s available if you ask their customer service. But I encapsulate all kinds of other stuff for a couple of reasons. One, it’s less expensive like L-Tyrosine is a precursor to dopamine and [unintelligible] adult ADD. I use stimulants so I need to raise my dopamine so I use L-Tyrosine or N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine. It’s better for me to get the powder because it’s cheaper and I make my own capsules. The other reason I like making my own capsules because I don’t want any “other ingredients.” When you take a look at a supplement label, you look down at the end of the supplement label and there is this part that says other ingredients. You see things like magnesium stearate and titanium dioxide and dicalcium phosphate and silica. I don’t want that stuff because not only is it not what I’m setting out to put in my body but this stuff is actually bad for you. Like magnesium stearate for example. Nearly every single supplement that you find on a shelf in the local vitamin shop has gotten magnesium stearate on the label. Why? It’s because it’s used as a flow agent. It helps speed up the encapsulation process. It stops the powder from sticking to mechanical equipment, right? So it’s helping the manufacturer but it’s not helping me.


[0:33:58] Ashley James: What are the negative effects of taking it?


[0:34:01] David Tomen: It suppresses your natural killer T cells which is a key component of your immune system. You don’t want to do that. Titanium dioxide is another classic one that you see on nearly every supplement. They used it to make things look more appealing color. The problem with it is that it leads to mitochondrial dysfunction. It damages astrocyte cells which prevents them from being able to absorb glutamate. So that induces oxidative stress and that causes mitochondrial damage. Another one I just came across that’s a little bit less. You don’t see it as often but it just happens to be on a nootropic stack that I’m reviewing right now that will remain nameless until I publish this thing but it’s called dicalcium phosphate. Dicalcium phosphate is used to help bulk out stuff like as a filler. So if you’re selling a supplement that’s 5 mg, you know how big 5 mg is?


[0:35:09] Ashley James: It’s small. Tiny.


[0:35:13] David Tomen: It’s teeny, teeny, tiny, right? You can’t get a 5 mg capsule. You won’t be able to pick the thing up. It’s so small. So they’ve got to put a filler in to fill the rest of the capsule. You can use things like rice flour, which is fine. But these guys use dicalcium phosphate. The thing is produced from either sulfuric acid or hydrochloric acid.


[0:35:38] Ashley James: What does it do to the body?


[0:35:44] David Tomen: It’s often radioactive.


[0:35:46] Ashley James: What?


[0:35:47] David Tomen: Yeah. Well, it’s just hopefully your body just excretes it without doing any damage. But you’d really don’t want that thing going through your system.


[0:35:56] Ashley James: So besides rice gram what are some safe fillers? There’s one supplement I take that uses cinnamon as a filler. I mean it’s a blood sugar support. I don’t take it.


[0:36:07] David Tomen: Yeah, yeah. Something like cinnamon would be fine. Rice flour is fine. I mean, there’s only a couple of fillers that are natural. The encouraging thing Ashley is that this has been so pervasive for so long that now, once every two or three weeks I see a new supplement company pop up. So I take a look at their label to see what’s there. I find that a couple of them are producing a nootropics supplement that have no other ingredients which is a miracle. That’s one of the reasons why I love Opti-Nutra that makes Mind Lab Pro and Performance Lab line of supplements is because they don’t have. The only other ingredients are the capsule, which is made out of tapioca, and sometimes rice flour as a filler. That’s it. There’s no other ingredients. That is still very, very unusual. So that’s the other reason why I make my own capsules because I don’t have that stuff in there.


[0:37:14] Ashley James: Very cool. Now besides kratom, what other supplements are you taking to support the reduction of pain as your body is healing from the surgery?


[0:37:27] David Tomen: That’s the main one. There’s a lot of other stuff that is helping that too. I use Mind Lab Pro every day and that’s got lion’s mane in it. So we already talked about lion’s mane and we know how that helps your body heal. There are others and pine bark extract. Pine bark extract comes from the French maritime. It’s called French Maritime Pine Bark. It’s native to the Mediterranean region. The extract of that pine bark holds a thing called proanthocyanidins. It does all kinds of things. Improves blood flow in your brain which means your brain is getting more oxygen and more nutrients but it also helps tame inflammation. When you tame inflammation you reduce pain because a lot of pain comes from inflammation one way or another. So pine bark extract helps in that. My very first experience and I just thought of this when I was researching when I was getting ready for our talk, my first experience with a  nootropic for pain and I didn’t realize it was going on at the time and a couple of years later I realize what was going on. Choline citrate. I used to go to a rheumatologist. Because I’m a writer, I have excruciating should pain. The kind of shoulder pain that massages hardly helped. The doctor used to take big needles and inject stuff into my shoulders to try to help me relieve the pain and it wasn’t working. I was just in excruciating pain. But at the time, I realize I needed to boost acetic choline in my brain. One of the easiest ways is to do that. One of the cheapest ways to do that is with choline citrate. All it is choline combined with citrate which is an isocitric acid. The choline and the citrate combined, they contribute to the synthesis of acetic choline in your brain. The other thing that it does for some reason is it helps relieve muscle pain. I find that you have to take quite a bit of this stuff. Like typically, other acetic choline precursors like Alpha-GPC or CDP-Choline you take 350 mg or 600 mg. With choline citrate, you would take like 5 or 6 grams because it’s not very bioavailable. But choline is an essential nutrient. I find that when I was using it I would have less muscle pain. I didn’t realize that until I started researching how it worked in my body. I went, ‘Oh, that’s the reason why I’m having less pain.’


[0:40:55] Ashley James: Cool. So you think your body was deficient in it?


[0:41:00] David Tomen: Yeah. I know it was.


[0:41:02] Ashley James: So, does choline deficiency cause muscle pain?


[0:41:07] David Tomen: Well it can because acetic choline is your body’s signaling neurotransmitter. When you move your finger, that signal is acetic choline. Any muscle movement is signaled by acetic choline. So if there’s not enough acetic choline, what’s going to happen? You’re going to have slow reflexes, your brain’s not going to work as well and your muscles aren’t going to work as well either. There was a clinical study that researches found that providing 2 grams of choline prior to exercise prevented a fall in choline levels and raised choline levels above baseline values for up to two hours after exercise. The researchers found that choline citrate and choline bitartrate were equally effective as well as their two inexpensive supplements that you can buy. One randomized placebo-controlled study found improvements in running times by a significant amount over a 20-mile course when compared to those that were using a placebo compared to the people that were using choline citrate or choline bitartrate. So the dosage of choline citrate is 500 mg to 3000 mg per day.

So the other things that you can use for pain is Holy Basil. Holy Basil is it’s a member of the mint family. It’s also called tulsi or the incomparable one in Hindu. I mean they’ve used it in Ayurveda and the Greeks, the Romans, the Siddha, the Unani. They all used the Holy Basil for things like anxiety, cough, asthma, diarrhea, live dysentery, arthritis, eye diseases, eye [unintelligible], indigestion. I could go on and on and on. Even snake bites. Snake and scorpion bites and malaria. But they found that Holy Basil also helps back pain. It’s probably because Holy Basil is a very very potent antioxidant. It’s a natural COX-2 inhibitor. There are studies that show that some of the compounds included in Holy Basil including eugenol and rosemarinic acid have been compared to ibuprofen, naproxen, and aspirin in their pain-relieving qualities which is pretty amazing.


[0:44:09] Ashley James: How do we take Holy Basil? Is that like an extract, an essential oil?


[0:44:17] David Tomen: You can use in essential oil but I’ve got more experience and I think that it’s easier to note how much is in a capsule of an extract than it is in an essential oil. So the recommended dosage for Holy Basil extract is 300 to 2000 mg a day. You can also make Holy Basil tea just by pouring boiling water over fresh Holy Basil leaves and let it steep for five minutes. Of course, you don’t know how much you’re getting when you do it that way but it works.


Photo by Christin Hume on Unsplash


[0:44:56] Ashley James: Yeah. It’s fairly safe to make teas. It’s hard to overdose or take too much of it from tea.


[0:45:02] David Tomen: Yeah. It’s highly bioavailable when you do it that way too. But I like capsules. I like extracts because I know exactly how much I’m putting in my body.  Rhodiola rosea is German researchers found that rhodiola works really well for pain, headaches, [unintelligible], hemorrhoids. They use it as a stimulant, as an anti-inflammatory. I’m trying to remember why rhodiola works so well for pain because I’ve only studied it for how it works in the brain. One research team found that rhodiola increased the number of neurons in the hippocampus in the people that they were treating. When you increase the number of neurons, of course, your cognition is better ad your memory is better. It plays a role in saving injured neurons in the hippocampus. Some of the neurological diseases that we’ve talked about earlier come from problems with the hippocampus. You can prevent it at least in part by using something like rhodiola rosea which helps save injured neurons.


[0:46:32] Ashley James: Yeah. I’m remembering that you have a whole article on recovering after stroke. Preventing stroke obviously, but with someone who had a stroke that there’s nootropics to heal the brain after a traumatic brain injury. We’ve talked about that in our past episodes.


[0:46:52] David Tomen: Taurine is an amino acid that is used by athletes. It’s also found in things like Red Bull. But most people find that using taurine, they’ve got sharper eyesight and their muscle pain is reduced and they’re less depressed. Any insulin resistance that’s present goes down.


[0:47:21] Ashley James: That makes me wonder if someone who has taurine deficiency would their insulin resistance get worse? Would their eyesight get worse? When you say things get better because someone takes taurine.


[0:47:36] David Tomen: Probably. It kind of like makes sense doesn’t it?


[0:47:39] Ashley James: It’s a nutrient deficiency that’s causing these problems?


[0:47:43] David Tomen: Yeah. So you just have to try. If you’re lucky enough to figure out what that nutrient deficiency is. If you can’t figure it out then you just start experiment with different things using a, you know doing a search of a site like Nootropics Expert and finding things like, ‘oh, okay. I’ll try taurine.’ They also found that taurine supplementation works for treating autism.


[0:48:17] Ashley James: Why is that?


[0:48:19] David Tomen: Autism spectrum disorder is thought to be associated with oxidative stress caused by your active oxygen species. So it kind of makes sense that oxidative stress is a potential target for therapeutic intervention for autism. Researchers in New York tested 66 children aged 1 ½ to 11 ½ years who are diagnosed with autism. The controls in this study were kids with their healthy siblings and parents.  The studies found that 21 out of 66 autistic children had low taurine concentration in their blood.


[0:49:13] Ashley James: What about the researchers’ families? Did the families also have?


[0:49:17] David Tomen: No. They had normal. Normal taurine levels. So the researchers conclude that the data implied that taurine may be a valid biomarker for at least some contributing to autism. So will it help? Don’t know. All you can do is try it. I’ve consulted with a couple of parents with kids that have got autism and that’s one of the things suggested. I’m not sure. I haven’t got any feedback from them yet on whether it’s helped or not.


[0:49:50] Ashley James: Interesting. I just did an interview yesterday with the doctor who created the GAPS diet. Dr. Campbell-McBride, Her diet is about healing the gut to heal the brain. She’s a neurologist. She healed her son’s. When her son was 2 years old had autism. He totally healed his gut with his diet and his autism went away. So she’s had really great success having reverse autism. Her diet is so high in these amino acids like taurine because the first phase of the diet, we shouldn’t even call it a diet. It’s a really strict program that lasts 1 ½ to 2 years. Then they kind of get weaned off of it because their gut is healed. Then they go back to almost all food after that. But the first phase is just bone broth basically and meat broths high in these amino acids. She had children that has completely reversing autism. I wonder if that’s one of those things that they were really deficient in those amino acids. That was what was –


[0:51:01] David Tomen: It sounds like it.


[0:51:03] Ashley James: Yeah. Interesting.


[0:51:05] David Tomen: Another thing that you can use for pain is PQQ. PQQ is you often see it combined with CoQ10 because those two help make ATP for healing mitochondria. We also find that PQQ promotes the growth of new mitochondria in the brain. It’s the only supplement that we know that does that. It helps grow neurons because it boosts the production of nerve growth factors in your brain. But we found that if you’re dealing with fibromyalgia you might get some benefit alleviating your chronic pain with PQQ. There was one clinical that the researchers concluded that supplementing with PQQ improves C quality and duration, mood improved due to less fatigue and appetite and pain all showed improvement.


[0:52:15] Ashley James: Cool.


[0:52:17] David Tomen: Yeah. Another one that we haven’t talked about is CBD oil.


[0:52:21] Ashley James: Yeah. I was just waiting for that. A lot of people have good results.


[0:52:27] David Tomen: Yeah. A lot of people do. I don’t use it. I’ve tried it a couple of times because I’m using other stuff it kind of for me it was like eh. But so many people report benefits with CBD. It kind of makes sense. CBD is one of at least 120 phytocannabinoids found in the cannabis sativa plant. Cannabidiol is extracted from cannabis or marijuana in industrial hemp where it’s synthesized in the lab. Both hemp and marijuana are versions of the cannabis sativa plant, right? The thing is that CBD does not have the same psychomimetic or mind-altering effects as the main plant compound found in this plant THC.


[0:53:27] Ashley James: Right. So kids can take it. All adults can take. You can take it. You can take it and drive you’re not going to get high. You’ll feel relaxed.


[0:53:36] David Tomen: Actually, CBD is used to help counter the mind-altering effects caused by THC.


[0:53:42] Ashley James: Right. Yes. When people overdose on marijuana and they’re like tripping hard and they’re freaking out if they take CBD they’ll come down really fast. They’ll come back to earth.


[0:53:55] David Tomen: So, it primarily comes from cannabis flowers and the leaves of the marijuana plant. Hemp oil comes from the seeds of the marijuana plant but it doesn’t offer the same therapeutic benefits as CBD oil so don’t make the mistake of some company. Because this market too has just taken off in the last couple of years. Since the farm bill that was passed I think in December that took hemp off of, it’s no longer a Schedule I substance. People are advertising just hemp or in hemp oil as CBD oil and it’s not. CBD oil and hemp oil are not the same thing and they should not be confused. You won’t experience the same benefits with hemp oil as you will with CBD oil. SO you’ll pay more for CBD. That’s why you can buy hemp oil so cheap. CBD is a lot more expensive.


[0:54:56] Ashley James:  I’ve seen these companies that are like pain cream companies. They’re like, ‘Now, with hemp oil.’ I feel so angry about that. They’re just throwing in an oil it’s just from the seed, which you can go to Costco and buy the seeds. They’re great to eat. They’re delicious. They’re good to put in smoothies or on your salad. They’re great healthy fats. That doesn’t contain the CBD that we need, in the levels that we need if someone wanted to use it for pain relief. So just having hemp oil added or pain cream is really doing nothing for you. It’s like adding salad dressing to your pain cream. It’s not the same.


[0:55:44] David Tomen: It helps to know why CBD oil is more effective. CBD oil can be used as an antidepressant because it enhances serotonin and glutamate signaling via the 5-HT1A receptor which is a serotonin receptor. It also helps enhance GABA which is one of the reasons why CBD oils have been found to help in epilepsy in reusing seizures. Some of its antipsychotic effects are related to increasing levels of anandamide. It acts on CB2 receptors. They’re specific cannabinoid receptors in your body in your brain particularly in your brain that only respond to CBD, not the hemp. So CBD acts on CB2 receptors to produce an anti-inflammatory response in brain immune cells. The anti-cannabinoid system is they’re still trying to figure out exactly how it works.


[0:57:02] Ashley James: Just like we’re trying to figure out how the brain works, right? It’s all this new stuff about the brain.


[0:57:05] David Tomen: The anti-cannabinoid system is a group of receptors located throughout your body and brain. It consists of signaling molecules in the receptors. It’s CBD that attaches to endocannabinoid receptors, say that fast. There’s CB1 and CB2 receptors. CB1 receptors are found primarily in the brain and central nervous system and is the main molecular target for the endocannabinoid anandamide which is produced in your body and the THC you get from cannabis. The other main endocannabinoid is called 2AG which is also produced in your body and the CBD which you get from cannabis. So both 2AG and CBD are active at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors. CBD cannot bind directly with CB1 receptors like THC can. But CB2 receptors are mainly expressed in immune cells in your body which is probably one of the reasons why it helps boost your immune system and it helps reduce pain.


[0:58:22] Ashley James: So good take preventively now as we’re coming into what they call flu season. Make sure that we’re adding healthy levels of CBD to our regular routine. Would you recommend that?


[0:58:38] David Tomen: And NAC.


[0:58:40] Ashley James: NAC. I love NAC. Yes.


[0:58:44] David Tomen: N-acetyl cysteine. I use 600 mg of NAC three times a day and I find that whenever everybody else is getting the flu or a cold in my family, I seem to not get it. It’s probably because I’m using NAC consistently and I have for years.


[0:59:03] Ashley James: You need to start slipping NAC into your family’s smoothies.


[0:59:07] David Tomen: Yeah. Okay. Why does that work? It works because NAC is a precursor to glutathione. So it’s a potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory and it’s a free radical scavenger. It also modulates glutamate levels and dopamine release in your brain which also helps people with adult ADD like me. It helps reduce irritability, anxiety, and depression. This is one of these supplements that I think everybody should be using.


[0:59:43] Ashley James: Absolutely. I use it for my liver and I notice a great difference when I use it. My son, I put it in his smoothies. Our naturopathic pediatrician has him on it. What’s really interesting is he had a really stuffy nose, this was I don’t know maybe a year and a half ago, two years ago something like that. He had a stuffy nose and she’s like, ‘Oh, yeah. You take NAC.’ It blows out stuffy noses. It makes all that mucus move again. So we got him on NAC and right away, his sinus is drained. I thought that was the coolest thing. So love NAC. What is it derived from?

 Photo by Chelsea shapouri on Unsplash


[1:00:26] David Tomen: It’s an acetyl group added to l-Cysteine. You get l-Cysteine naturally from eating things like ricotta and cottage cheese and yogurt and pork and chicken and turkey, duck, wheat germ, granola, oat flakes. They just add an acetyl group to l-Cysteine. L-Cysteine is a naturally forming, naturally occurring amino acid. Your body seems to readily accept it like that and separates the l-Cysteine to use to help boost all kinds of things including glutathione. It helps regulate the amount of glutamate in your brain. It influences the amount of dopamine available in your brain and it keeps dopamine receptors healthy, which is critical for somebody that’s ADD or ADHD that’s using stimulants that is not easy on receptors.

Another study with 30 adult male [unintelligible] of rats. They divided them into three groups. The control group received distilled water. The second group was given Aspartame. The third group was given Aspartame and NAC. Oral administration was done in the morning daily for 90 days. The study found that NAC affected brain deriving tropic level factors. It blocked COX-2 and PGE2 enzymes. It reduced the expression of interleukin 6 and tumor necrosis factor A inflammatory cytokines in the rat’s cerebral cortex. They found that NAC replenished glutathione levels. So the researchers concluded that NAC prevented neurotoxicity and improved neurological function. It suppressed brain inflammation and oxidative stress.


[1:02:34] Ashley James: So cool. We should all be on that.


[1:02:37] David Tomen: I know.


[1:02:38] Ashley James: Right. One of our listeners, Mike, wanted to know if you could talk about neuropathy? There’s different qualities of pain, different kinds of pain. You mentioned the pain like muscle pain. Now, your pain is very unique in that you’re healing a surgical injury. Other pains can be chronic. We have neuropathy where people often feel it in their limbs or in their extremities, their feet and their hands. Do you have any suggestions around helping neuropathy?


[1:03:17] David Tomen: I haven’t done a ton of research into it, but I think fibromyalgia is probably included in that area. I’m hypothyroid. One of the things that I have to deal with for years was fibromyalgia but I don’t anymore. It just went away. What I found after years and years of research was that one doctor, I think it was Brownstein, found that when they brought T3 level, thyroid T3 levels up to optimum, fibromyalgia went away. That’s probably what happened with me. When I finally got my thyroid levels where they were supposed to be, just fibromyalgia went away. I imagine, just to remind everybody that I’m not a doctor. I don’t play one on TV. I’m just an ordinary guy that has figured some of these stuff out by reading tons and tons and tons of clinical studies and trying these stuff on myself. But it seems to me that what we just talked about with NAC, things like COX-2, all the inflammatory enzymes and the expression of things like interleukin 6 and tumor necrosis factor A, all of these are inflammatory cytokines. They probably somehow contribute to neuropathy when they get out of wack, right? That just makes sense to me.


[1:05:11] Ashley James: Right. One of the naturopaths that I mentored with, Dr. Wallach who was a pathologist and a veterinarian and a research scientist before becoming a naturopathic physician says that. He has an interesting perspective because he was a pathologist so he’s used to looking at disease tissue on a cellular level under very big microscopes. He says that neuropathy is a combination of inflammation to the nerves and the nerves inability to regrow the myelin sheaths. So it’s a lack of the essential fatty acids, the healthy cholesterol needed to regrow the myelin and the constant bombardment of inflammation and oxidative damage to the nerves. So when we look at what is a really common illness that also has neuropathy is diabetes. Out of control diabetes either type 1 or type 2. When we have high blood sugar, and even someone who’s not diabetic but has extended periods of high blood sugar, high blood sugar causes a huge amount of inflammation and free radical damage to the body. Also, just the amount of damage over time leaves the limbs having less and less healthy blood flow. So now you’ve got nerves that have less good nutrients coming to them and constant bombardment of damage. The damage is more than the body can repair. Every time the body goes to repair it, it can only repair at 10% versus all the damage happening. So those who are able to their diabetes or type 2 diabetes are able to get their type 1 diabetes totally under control through nutrients, through good food, and through supplements are able to bring their body back into balance. They can reverse neuropathy. That neuropathy is reversible after they heal the root cause. So Dr. Wallach talks about giving the body the essential fatty acids it needs because 70% of the white matter of the brain is made of cholesterol. So we need to make sure that we’re feeding the body with healthy fats and obviously make sure that digesting and absorbing them. Because that’s a big problem that people are fat-deficient aren’t digesting. Maybe they don’t have their gallbladder. They’re not eating the right fats. They’re not digesting them and they’re not absorbing them. Then the body can’t utilize them. Make sure we’re doing things like the NAC and the other nootropics you’ve mentioned that help with decreasing inflammation and also being the free radical scavengers to mop up and soak up those free radicals so that we can put the fire out. It’s about putting the fire out instead of treating the smoke.


[1:08:19] David Tomen: And also I think it’s giving your body the nutrients that it needs to regrow myelin.


[1:08:25] Ashley James: Yes. Right.


[1:08:26] David Tomen: The only way that you can create myelin is with vitamin D, vitamin B12, vitamin B9 or folate, vitamin B8 or inositol, vitamin B6 pyridoxine and thiamin. [Unintelligible] is another one contributes to the synthesis of myelin. Those are the main ones. I think ashwagandha too contributes, you know what, I just found out conditions of chronic stress and excess cortisol your brain’s neurons are coated through sheath and myelin so this doesn’t count. Those are the main vitamins that your body needs for your body to actually synthesize myelin.


[1:09:30] Ashley James: Now, we really need to look at making sure that we’re getting the full spectrum of all 90 essential nutrients. All the vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty acids. That we’re eating a diet that supports, we’ve talked about this in our previous episodes, but eating a diet that’s supportive of the neurological system and the body as a whole. Also practicing a lifestyle that supports the neurological system like getting enough sleep and getting out of stress mode. Getting into the rest and digest the parasympathetic neuro-response of rest and digest so that the body can heal and focus on healing. So there’s a lot that we can do naturally in our day to day lifestyle. Every meal we have can support our whole body. Also, the supplements that we take throughout the day. I love that there’s this resource NootropicsExpert.com because I consider you a research scientist. I mean you’re an autodidact. You’re self-taught but you pour-over, you’ve spent hundreds of hours poring over all the research. If you go to an MD or you walk into a medical office and go to a doctor, they’re highly trained but do they spend hundreds of hours poring over the latest research? They probably don’t.


[1:10:47] David Tomen: No because they haven’t gotten time too. Some of them aren’t just interested. Others just, when you go in to see a doctor, how often does it take for you? You show up for a 1:30 appointment and you actually see the doctor at 2:00 or 2:30 because he’s just slammed. When is he going to have time to research? These people just haven’t got time to spend time researching this stuff. We’re kind like on our own with a lot of this.


[1:11:20] Ashley James: That’s why we’re all listening to this interview right now because we’re on our own. I mean obviously, we want to have doctors in our corner. They’re on our team but we have to take them off the pedestal and say, ‘I’m the employer. You’re on my team. You’re not the boss. I’m the boss. You’re going to help me inform me on my health. But I need to go collect other information too like listening to this episode to support my health.’ Now, this episode’s not meant to treat anything. I don’t normally do a legal disclaimer because common sense, this is information. You take this information. You keep educating yourself. You obviously talk to your doctor before changing any supplements. Talk to a doctor that’s trained in supplements like a naturopathic physician for example.


[1:12:04] David Tomen: They do exist.


[1:12:06] Ashley James: Right, they are amazing. If there are not in your state, you can tell a medicine. I’ve got lots of interviews with naturopaths that would love to talk to you. We always want to consult a doctor especially if it would in any way interact with a medication we’re on. That’s something we’ve talked about David in our past episodes. That you also dive into the research about these nootropics, these supplements and how they can interact in a negative way with certain prescriptions. Also, there’s some that interact in a positive way.

There is a naturopath, one of them that trained me in my past, talked about whenever he had to prescribe a drug would prescribe all the nutrient cofactors that would actually make the drug more efficient. So he would prescribe a smaller dose. So let’s say for example he had to prescribe metformin, I really really really hate metformin for many reasons. But let’s say he did that. He would also prescribe, he’d look at what does metformin, for example, decrease in the body? Let’s say it decreases B12, right? So just like cholesterol-lowering drugs which do damage to the liver and force the liver to create less cholesterol. That’s how they work. They actually damage the liver. They also hurt the mitochondria and decrease our CoQ10. So you have to take a CoQ10 supplement with them. So he’d look at what does this drug reduce in the body so we have to supplement that. But then you’d also have to look at what would increase the effectiveness of the drug? So it might be certain minerals or certain whatever would help the receptors, right? He found that he could make drugs more efficient with over the counter supplements.

That’s really interesting because then it brings us back to if the body becomes more efficient when we take vitamins and minerals and essential fatty acids and amino acids. If we take these over the counter supplements from really high-quality companies obviously. And the body becomes more efficient and has less and less disease or less and less symptoms. This is where I keep going. It’s like the deficiency is causing the illness and yet we always run to a drug, this is what we’re trained to do, run to a drug to mask a symptom. This is what our MDs are trained in, masking symptoms and managing symptoms with drugs but not getting into the root cause.

Back in the 50s there’s a doctor, and you can find this on wiki really interesting, the doctor was able to turn type 2 diabetes on and off in rodents, I think it was rats, by removing chromium or adding chromium to their feed. Thus concluding that chromium deficiency, which is a trace mineral, causes the insulin to not work correctly with the cell. So chromium, vanadium aspartic acid, bitter melon, cinnamon. These are all supplements that we can take to support making insulin work correctly with the cell. I know a type 1 diabetic that was able to reduce his insulin by 75% after getting on those nutrients.


Photo by Sharon McCutcheon on Unsplash


[1:15:34] David Tomen: Isn’t that amazing?


[1:15:35] Ashley James: Amazing.


[1:15:36] David Tomen: Wouldn’t it be wonderful that every doctor did this? But they don’t. So it’s up to us.


[1:15:39] Ashley James: But the information’s out there.


[1:15:41] David Tomen: It’s up to us to get this information and help the doctor heal our bodies.


[1:15:47] Ashley James: Right. Right. Exactly. So that’s my little, ‘be sure to work with your physician and make sure to do your own research before you go take any of this.’ Right? This is all just for information because we want to help you to make more informed choices. Now, on the topic of pain, I have to share something really exciting that happened the other day. Had a friend come over to do a little playdate with our kids, our kids are all the same age. I have one kid she has a bunch. She is back up and walking after being basically bed-ridden or couch-ridden for months. She was in a horrible accident and broke both of her ankles. She has this big wicked scars on both sides of both ankles. We didn’t get into the details as to exactly how it happened but she had lots of surgeries to correct it. She was on crutches for a long time. Finally, she’s up to walking but she says she can’t even clean the house or do the dishes in the kitchen because she really can’t stand for long periods of time before it is hurting again. She really doesn’t want to take any opioids and she was really clear about that. I had with me the magnesium soak that I believe in. I know magnesium is great for pain. If the body is deficient in magnesium it’s hard for the body to turn off the pain receptors to shut the channel and stop sending that signal. So I get her to soak in magnesium and she almost cried at the end of it. She said, “This is the first time I’ve been out of pain since before my accident. I have been in months and months of pain.” She couldn’t believe it. She texted me hours later she goes, “I’m still out of pain. I have to get some of this stuff. I can’t believe it.”

So something as simple as soaking in magnesium can, again it comes back to, it’s not that magnesium stops pain. It’s that if the body’s deficient in it then our pain can become exacerbated because the neuro system is not working correctly. Magnesium is what the nerves, magnesium, and calcium are needed for the nerves to send proper signals. Yeah. I know you talked about magnesium and the importance of it on your website as well.


[1:18:10] David Tomen: I do. I love stories like that. I love them.


[1:18:14] Ashley James: Isn’t that cool?


[1:18:15] David Tomen: Yeah. I need to start collecting more testimonials from the people that are coming to Nootropics Expert and months later going, ‘Wow. My life has changed.’


[1:18:28] Ashley James: Well you have a bunch of them on your website. What I love about your articles is at the bottom it’s like blog style and that people can leave comments. It’s very active. We have that on LearnTrueHealth.com as well but yours, yours is very active. Lots of people sharing their testimonials on your website. So it’s fun to go through and read it. But it would be great if you were to kind of compile them into like a little testimonials section because it brings people hope. Hope that they can heal their bodies. I was really sick. Really, really sick like in my 20s. If I had that resource to show me that there’s hope, it would’ve accelerated my willingness to dive into this world. It would’ve accelerated my motivation to see that there’s hope. It really helps us to start behaving in a positive way and moving in this direction. So I think it would be beneficial to do that. The next time we have you on the show you could come and share some of those stories of success.


[1:19:35] David Tomen: All right. Let me do that. It’s funny, I was booking a bunch of consultations and one lady from, I don’t know where. Someplace in the world, I don’t know where she is. Russia? I don’t know where. I don’t remember. But I sent her a message saying, “This is what. How to prepare for this consultation. This is what I expect from her.” Her response back to me. The very last sentence before sincerely or thank you or whatever, I finally have some hope. Now, it just brings tears to your eyes when you see stuff like that.


[1:20:13] Ashley James: You’ve been doing a lot of consultations lately. We were talking about that before we hit record. I’d love for you to share because you were telling how cool it was. Like how many people you’re helping one on one. Can you walk us through what it’s like working with you?


[1:20:29] David Tomen: You can book for half an hour or an hour. I charge $100.00 for a half an hour, $200 for an hour. Why would you want to do this? You’ll save time trying to figure this thing out on your own. You can save yourself money because you’re going to avoid trying the wrong supplements. You just don’t blindly walk to the Whole Foods and stand in front of the vitamin shelf and ho, ‘what am I going to get?’ You stay safe by avoiding interactions with prescription meds that you’re on. And you just have more confidence in what you’re putting in your stack together or your supplements together. You just feel more confident in what you’re doing. You’ve got the peace of mind that somebody’s got you back. So that’s why you want to do something like this. People just ho to, I use Calendly to book this. There is a link on the website. If you go to the menu Store dropdown menu consultations. You just click on the link for consultations and you book a time. I ask you to send me a list of the supplements that you’re currently taking. The list of medications that you’re currently on. What your health issues are that you’re dealing with and what you would like some help with. What your goals are for that session. I spend a couple of hours after I get those notes I spend a couple of hours in research finding what the best recommendations are for that person. Then we spent half an hour, typically an hour is better for the first consultation. We talk about how to deal with whatever it is that they’re dealing with. After the consultation, usually, the next day, I send the, one or two pages of notes from that call with just notes of what we talked about so that they’ve got something to refer to. So they know if we talked about they know they need to get this and this and this, they don’t need to take notes during the call because I already have that and I’ll send it to them afterward. So that’s what you get with a consultation.


[1:22:48] Ashley James: Right. So if they want an hour with you it costs $200.00 but what they’re actually getting is about five hours of your time because you spend a few hours before and a few hours after the consultation. First, you do all your research for them. Then you talk to them and consult them. Then afterward, you compile all the information together into an email, into an actual plan for them. So that’s probably about five? That sounds like about five hours that they would get out of you for that $200.00. That seems very reasonable.


[1:23:24] David Tomen: It’s one of the reasons why I don’t promote consultations very much or very often just because it’s so time-consuming for me. But people do find it really, really, really helpful.


[1:23:37] Ashley James: Well, I know that someone’s nerves are probably going to want to talk to you now that we’ve let them know about it.


[1:23:45] David Tomen: I would love to. Just tell them that Ashley sent you maybe I’ll be even nicer. It’s just I’m nice all the time. Yeah. Just send people over and I’ll help them if I can.


[1:23:59] Ashley James: What’s that sound?


[1:24:01] David Tomen: Rain. It just started raining, pouring over here. I live in South Florida by Miami and when it starts to rain here.


[1:24:11] Ashley James: It sounds wonderful now that I know that it’s rain. I thought it was like a monster coming to attack you. I was like, ‘what is that sound?’


[1:24:17] David Tomen: When it rains here, it rains.


[1:24:19] Ashley James: It sounds like something from that, remember that TV show Lost? I was like, ‘what is going on?’


[1:24:26] David Tomen: Yeah. When it rains here it pours.


[1:24:27] Ashley James: Well, beautiful. I do have a healthy level of jealousy that you live in gorgeous, what is that Miami that you live in?


[1:24:34] David Tomen: It’s north of Miami.


[1:24:36] Ashley James: North of Miami, beautiful area. We talked about grounding and earthing, you and I. You said that you go barefoot with your dogs when you walk them because you can 12 months of the year in Florida.


[1:24:53] David Tomen: Although it does get kind of chilly in January and February.


[1:24:56] Ashley James: Don’t even. I’m sorry but you can’t say that to someone who lives in Seattle and grew up in Toronto. It gets below freezing twice in the last week here. So you can’t say it’s called there when people aren’t wearing parkas and boots and winter jackets.


[1:25:16] David Tomen: Well, you can tell who the tourists are and the snow burns are because it’s 50 degrees outside and us, we’ve all got winter coats on. These people are walking around in t-shirts and shorts.


[1:25:27] Ashley James: Yes. Yup. I remember, when I was a kid we went to Mexico and it was 15 degrees Celsius. Let’s see here, 60 degrees Fahrenheit. All the locals were wearing two sweaters. They didn’t know what to do with themselves. I’m walking around in shorts and a t-shirt going, ‘this feels so good’ because I came from -30. It’s so funny. Are there any nootropics that help people with temperature?


[1:25:54] David Tomen: L-Tyrosine


[1:25:56] Ashley James: L-Tyrosine. So if someone is always feeling cold or has cold hands, cold feet should they try taking L-Tyrosine?


[1:26:04] David Tomen: It just seems to help with when you’re in a stressful situation. Athletes used them. It helps them with endurance. Particularly weather-related stress. They perform better when they’re in cold weather in sports when they’re using something like L-Tyrosine.


[1:26:27] Ashley James: Interesting. Well, you got to get your whole family on that for the winter.


[1:26:32] David Tomen: Yeah. When it drops down to 50 degrees here.


[1:26:34] Ashley James: Yeah, 50 degrees. I dream of 50 degrees in the winter. David, it’s been such a pleasure having you back on the show. I always love it when I get to talk with you. Is there anything that you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview or any homework you’d like to give us?


[1:26:51] David Tomen: Help your doctor help you. Really. There is just so much information that’s available now. It’s sound information. It’s real information. I mean, I mention this earlier. I’m not a doctor. I don’t play one on TV. I research this stuff. But this stuff is real. It’s available. You can find it out for yourself. One place that you can use as a resource is NootropicsExpert.com because there’s hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of pages that you can use to research. You can get my book, Head First, which is nearly 600 pages of everything. It’s like a brain repair manual. You can also get a free download of Secrets of the Optimized Brain, which is a little e-booklet, 75 pages. All that is dietary supplements that help the brain nootropics. There are probably 70 or 75 in that 75-page booklet of what they are, where they come from, how much you take, what kind you buy. So that’s free. That’s a free download. Just this help is available. Just reach out for it. You can fix yourself.



[1:28:12] Ashley James: Wonderful. There is hope. Thank you so much David Tomen for coming on the show today.


[1:28:16] David Tomen: Thank you for having me back.


[1:28:18] Ashley James: All the links are going to be on the show notes of today’s podcast. It’s my pleasure. Thank you. We can’t wait to have you back on the show.


[1:28:25] Outro: Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition? And how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity. Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business and support people in their success? Do you love helping people?

You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach. I highly recommend checking out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. I just spent the last year in their health coaching certification program. And it really blew me away. It was so amazing. I learned over a hundred dietary theories. I learned all about nutrition. But from a standpoint of how we can help people to shift their life and shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health. I definitely recommend you check them out. You can Google Institute for Integrative Nutrition or IIN and give them a call. Or you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training to check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in. Be sure to mention my name Ashley James and the Learn True Health podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible. I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program. And I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information.

We need more health coaches. In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field. So many health coaches are getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic offices, doctors’ offices, you can work in hospitals. You can work online through Skype and help people around the world. You can become an author. You can go into the school system and help your local schools shift their programs to help children be healthier. You can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success and their health goals. There are so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach.

So check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Mention my name, get the best deal. Give them a call and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you. Classes are starting soon. The next round of classes are starting at the end of the month. So you’re going to want to call them now and check it out. And if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.

Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That’s takeyoursupplements.comTakeyoursupplements.com. Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome program.


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Secrets Of The Optimized Brain (E-book)

Head First – The Complete Guide to Healing and Optimizing Your Brain with Nootropic Supplements  (Ebook)


Check out other interviews of David Tomen!

Episode 374: How To Improve Brain Cognition With Nootropics

Episode 362: Nootropics

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Dr. Trent Mozingo And Ashley James


  • It is important to prepare your own food
  • The Weight is Over book
  • Figure out the pain generator
  • Lack of mobility and inflammation
  • Hobbies are important factor in health
  • Benefits of family dinner
  • History of food and stress
  • Cortisol and melatonin rhythm
  • Parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system
  • Weight loss becomes a side effect of better health
  • Intermittent fasting is the healthiest style of eating
  • Eighty percent of our nutrition should be plant based. Twenty percent animal based
  • Vegans have low inflammation
  • Every person needs to find that balance for themselves
  • Vitamins from plants, fruits, and vegetables runs the entire human body
  • Research what food does, what vitamins are, where they come from, and how they integrate and interact inside your body


In this episode, Dr. Mozingo will share with us how to fix ourselves in order to fix our bodies. He will also discuss how inflammation is related to lack of mobility, and how weight loss becomes a side effect of better health.


00:00:00 Intro: Hello, true health seeker. And welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health Podcast. You’re going to love today’s interview with Dr. Trent Mozingo. He’s a wonderful doctor that has a fantastic book. And he teaches so much in this episode. You’re just going to love it.

Well, I can’t contain myself anymore. You know, I was going to keep the secret a little longer but I just can’t contain myself anymore, especially after I recorded this interview today with Dr. Trent. And we discussed some key absolute fundamental things to creating health and reversing disease. Or the major thing, obviously, is the food you put in your body and what you cook. And the fact that you do cook your own food, that you do prepare your own food is so important.

So if you’ve been listening to reason episodes, I’ve hinted at the fact that there’s something really exciting I’ve been working on. There’s been a project I’ve been working on for a while now and I’m about to launch it. I am so, so, so excited to bring it to you. It’s so neat. There’s so many listeners have reached out and asked for this. I’m going to create a membership site that is incredibly affordable. I’m going to teach you whole food plant based cooking so that you can learn how to get more vegetables into you and into your kids and into your husband and into everyone in your family. I’m partnering with a friend of mine who’s a fantastic cook, who is also whole food plant based. And he has three kids that are eating her food. And man, if you can get kids to eat this way and you can make it delicious and fun, then the whole family wants to eat it. So together, the two of us, are teaching in this membership site how to cook whole food plant based diet.

Now, that doesn’t mean you can’t eat meat. That just means you’re going to learn how to eat more vegetables, more legumes, more beans, and all the variety – wonderful variety of vegetables that are healing. We’re going to have a whole section on healing foods and healing recipes. And we’re going to have a whole section for holiday meals. And whole section for if you just feel like cheating but you still want to eat healthy, super, super delicious desserts and snacks that are still incredibly nutritious and healthy. And then there’s the kind of the bar food when you just want to make some fun stuff and going over to a friend’s house or they’re coming over your house and you kind of just want to pass just like how everyone else eats. But you wanted, like, sneakily still eat healthy, but have it be yummy, we’ve got some of those recipes too.

So we’re teaching how to cook, so people who don’t know how to cook – people have been requesting. like people have been telling me, listeners have been telling me, “I would love to do this but I have no idea how to cook. And I’m just afraid I burn water. I’m just afraid of getting in the kitchen.” So were going to hold people’s hands. And then we’re also going to, for those who are great in the kitchen but just need a little help with recipes and ideas and menu plans, to transition into a healthier holistic way of eating that actually helps heal the body. Then this is going to be for you too. So it’s for both kinds of people, the people with no experience in the kitchen and also the people who have lots of experience but need to adjust their lifestyle into a healing diet that’s also delicious and also is realistic.

Because I’m a mom and I work, obviously, so I’m busy. And so is my partner, Naomi, who is the mom of three and so she manages a busy lifestyle and manages to cook all the meals at home. And a whole foods plant based diet that’s holistic and healing for the whole family. And being able to cook for different palates and different food sensitivities is really important. So we teach that. Also, it’s gluten free. It’s an anti inflammatory diet and anti-disease diet. But it’s done in a way that is very simple. So all recipes are quick. All recipes are delicious. And also we teach how to do it in a way that saves money, saves time, makes it delicious.

And we have menu plans. We have grocery lists. We walk you through everything that’s really important. Cookware, the essentials, the things that you need in your kitchen, how to use them. And also food prep, how to cook once every three days. So you’re just cooking – you’re getting into the kitchen once and you’re actually making enough food for several different meals that pair well together and it tastes delicious.

So that is what I’ve been working on. And I’m so, so excited. We’re going to be launching it soon. And there’s going to be a discount for the listeners, obviously, for you guys, right when we launch it. I want to make sure that I gift you guys. But it is more making sure that everyone can afford it because I want everyone to have access to this information in a way that supports all of you. And I’m really, really excited to bring that to you.

This is something that when you shift your diet to healing foods and you feel good after every meal, but not only that, you feel good the next day when you jump out of bed and you go, “Wow. I have more energy today. Like, I don’t feel aches and pains. I feel great.” And then a month later, you’re just like you can’t believe, like, maybe your headaches have gone away or your endurance goes up. Maybe you’re just happier. Things shift when you feed your body and you nourish your cells, everything starts to get better. And that’s what I really want to share with you is this way to do it. In a fun way that is manageable as a busy parent. That is manageable. And and I we teach how to feed everyone from a toddler all the way up to the grandparents. So everyone in between.

And of course, we’ll take requests for recipes. If you guys have a specific style that you want, all the listeners and the members can reach out and definitely request certain foods as well. Because we’re always expanding the types, the styles of recipes that we’re creating. So that’s going to be available soon. And if you want to be the first to know, so you get in – you become one of the founding members of our wonderful new membership . We’re calling it Learn True Health Home Kitchen. And if you want to be part of Learn True Health Home Kitchen, then join the Facebook Group, the Learn True Health Facebook Group. And also join my email list. You can just go to learntruehealth.com and the pop up comes up within a few seconds, put your email in there. I promise not to spam you. You will get a few emails because that does send out some emails with videos that we made with Naturopaths that teach the foundations of health. And it’s all free. So join the email list and then when we officially launch Learn True Health Home Kitchen, you will be the first to know and you can join it.

I am just so excited to bring this to you. This has been a long time coming. So now is the time. And it’s perfect because Thanksgiving is around the corner, Christmas is around the corner, all these great holidays where wouldn’t you like to feel better the next day. Wouldn’t you like to wake up the day after Thanksgiving or the day after Christmas, the day after New Year’s and feel healthier than the day before? Instead of feeling food coma. And some people kind of dread the holidays because it’s stressful. And we stress eat. And we just don’t eat healthy. But wouldn’t you like to eat really delicious food that actually builds your health and builds you into a better body in 2020. Wouldn’t that be wonderful? Well, that’s what we’re going to do together. Awesome.

Enjoy today’s interview. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing these episodes with your friends and family. And helping everyone we love to build healthier bodies.

We have over 37 trillion cells in our body. And everything we eat goes into building healthy cells or sick cells. And I want you to build 37 trillion healthy cells in your body. And we’re going to do that with food, lifestyle, and we’re going to figure out and learn from all these wonderful interviews just like today with Dr. Dr. Trent Mozingo. We’re learning how we can learn true health. Enjoy today’s interview.

Welcome to the Learn True Health Podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is Episode 388.

I am so excited for today’s guest. We have with us Dr. Dr. Trent Mozingo, who by far has the most beautiful last name I’ve ever heard, Mozingo. We will never forget that. Dr. Trent Mozingo has written an amazing book called The Weight Is Over.

And he was just telling me a little bit about it. And I said – I practically wanted to yell, stop, stop. We have to hit record. This is so amazing. I can’t wait for the listeners to hear about it. Dr. Trent, welcome to the show.

Photo by i yunmai on Unsplash


00:09:39 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Thank you. Thank you for having me on your show.



00:09:41 Ashley James: Absolutely. I want to jump right into your story first, because I want to know and I want the listeners to know what happened in your life. You know, growing up that led you to want to become a holistic doctor and help people heal in this way.



00:09:59 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Well, that’s a – it’s an interesting question. Because I grew up a farmer in southern Indiana. I had no idea the value of growing up raising our own food, raising our own beef cows, or own eggs, or garden, canning, freezing for the winter. I grew up eating from the soil to the table at my house. And when you’re in that as a child, you don’t have a clue that is really fueling a healthy human body. Certainly, I never got sick much as a kid. I never thought much about it. But as I was growing up, my family and I did everything on the farm. We did all our own mechanics. We did all of our own growing, raising, butchering. We pretty much did everything to keep us alive for the winter.

But as a kid, for some reason, I decided I want to be an anesthesiologist. I was about five. I don’t why. But I want to put people to sleep. And I don’t know where that came from. But my dad would drive around everywhere and he’d make me tell the neighbors what I want to be when I grow up, anesthesiologist. And that carried on until I was about 16. And I was in a major car accident. And they did surgery. I broke my jaw on the front and the sides. Smashed a bunch of teeth. It was a pretty bad accident. And I went into surgery and I met the anesthesiologist. Nice guy. I told him, “That’s what I want to be when I get older.” And he’s kind of run down a little bit what he does. And I was a 16 year old kid, I didn’t know much about it.

But as I was starting to go under, he’s sitting there beside this computer with that beeping noise in a hospital that beep, beep, beep. And he’s reading a book. Ad my surgery was four hours and I thought, “Man, he has to sit there and keep me alive for four hours.” And that sounds terrible. I don’t do that anymore. So I decided right then anesthesiologist is a no for me. But during the recovery of my accident, dental work – I had extensive dental work for a year – my back was stiff and sore. But my cousin was a chiropractor in Greensburg, Indiana. Not far from me. And I went and seen him. And 16 years old, he’s the happiest man I’ve ever met. He loves his job. He’s got a really nice car. I said, “John -” that’s his name – “John, how do I become a chiropractor? And he said, “I went to Purdue. Then I went to Palmer College of Chiropractic.” And I did just that.



00:12:31 Ashley James: Well, tell me a bit about your results. Take me back to that time that you’re in pain and you see your family member who’s a chiropractor. What was your first adjustment like?



00:12:44 Dr. Trent Mozingo: It was amazing. I felt – I mean, one adjustment, I felt a lot better. I was 16. And as a chiropractor now I know the youth they do adapt to an adjustment a little bit better than an older person. Because there’s no muscle tension, less muscle tension. No degeneration. There’s no arthritic changes. So a kid will respond a little bit better to an adjustment than an older person. But I felt amazing. And again, it was a lot of how I felt when I was left. And I didn’t know anything about chiropractic at the point. I just knew he loved his job. And he was excited to go to work every day.

And as a farmer, it’s hard work. And my brothers are both in the construction industry. They were working hard. And I was an employee for both of their businesses. One does heating and air and one does excavation and trucking. So I knew the hard work of going out doing the construction side of life. And I was pretty good at school. So I wanted to go to college. I was the first one on my family to do so. So it was more just I want to find a career that you love. And my cousin loved it. And I felt great when I left so I thought that is perfect for me.

But as I got to school, my thought process has changed a lot. I learned what chiropractic is. And I learned what holistic health care is. It really – I changed my scope of practice of chiropractic while I was still in school. I realized I didn’t want to be just a chiropractor. I want to do something with this inflammation epidemic going on, which is how I got to where I’m at now.



00:14:24 Ashley James: Right. Well, so I think that there’s some common misconceptions about what chiropractic is. Can you take a moment to just explain and set the record straight for us. Some people listening have never seen a chiropractor. They’re afraid that it’s just popping and cracking of joints. And a lot of people do go to chiropractors but they still don’t really, maybe, fully grasp what it is doing when you’re seeing chiropractor and having an adjustment.



00:14:51 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Okay, so I am a science based human. Left handed, live in my right brain. I can’t get out of the analytical life. So chiropractic, there are two styles for the most part. There’s traditional chiropractic that does uses more of like a energy chiropractic adjustments release, increase nerve flow to increase systemic function. And then there’s the science based chiropractic – which I practice, evidence based chiropractic – that I’m more of a pain management doc with my chiropractic care. I do some organic referral pain pattern adjustments. But for the most part, for the majority of patients – I should say – go to the chiropractor for pain. Neck pain, back pain, headaches, that’s the most common reason people go. And that’s the most common reason I see patients.

So what I do is it’s a very systematic physical exam to figure out what is their pain generator? Is it a spinal segments not moving correctly? Aberrant motion? Is it a muscle strain? Is it a ligament or connective tissue injury? Is it a disc injury? So through a series of ortho exams, I can diagnose a patient with, “You have a spinal fixation with lumbar para spinal muscle facilitation.” That sounds technical but really it just means the back is stiff and their segments aren’t moving as they should. So the adjustment is designed to take a spinal segment. We have quite a few of them. There’s seven in your neck and 12 in your mid-back and five om your low back. Find out which one’s not moving properly amongst the others around it. And then you put, what they call, a high velocity, low amplitude adjustment or just the chiropractic adjustment. You put an impulse into that segment and you increase mobility. That is the gold of the chiropractic adjustment, is increasing segmental mobility.



00:16:58 Ashley James: But there’s something that happens when that mobility is dampened. The sort of minute impingements of the nerves leaving the spine can affect our organs and thus can affect how our entire body functions. Can you talk a little bit about that?



00:17:19 Dr. Trent Mozingo: That’s more traditional style of chiropractic. And it does make some sense. But what really happens is inflammation happens. So when you have a lack of mobility, so the segments moving amongst each other is good news. So when you move your joints, it lubricates them. It decreases swelling in them. So when the joints get stuck together, they become relatively minorly – or excuse me – minutely inflamed. And that builds pressure in the synovial joint. So the adjustment, when you actually hear the pop of an adjustment, that’s actually relieving that pressure. So that swelling and inflammation is actually what can affect the nerves leaving the spinal segments.

And also motion blocks pain. It’s another really intricate part of chiropractic care. So think about if you slightly pinch your arm or slightly burn your arm or slightly smash your arm, you rub it. That’s what people do. A natural thing is you just rub what hurts. Everyone’s done that, right? So what you’re doing is you’re actually increasing, what they call, mecanorreceptores. The vibration moves faster to the brain, then nociceptors or pain receptors. So what you’re doing is actually in the brain blocking pain. So the motion that put into an adjustment blocks that pain reception. Does that makes some sense?

So that is part of the power of the adjustment is, one, it blocks pain. Two, it can increase mobility to later down the road decreases the growth of inflammation, the increase of inflammation of the joint. And increased mobility always feels better, which is my favorite part of a chiropractic adjustments. I just feel better.

Photo by Toa Heftiba on Unsplash


00:19:13 Ashley James: So my husband had AFib where his heart was beating regularly and it was really scary. And the first time we had it, we weren’t woke yet. We were still in the allopathic system. So we went to the hospital and they put them him beta blockers. The beta blockers didn’t work. I mean, his lips were blue. And it was really bad. They were like, “You know, this is going to create a blood clot if we don’t manage this.” They had to reset his heart like it was scary, scary to see. And then our cardiologist said, “You know, it’s probably holiday heart. You’re under stress.” Well, we hadn’t realized – it hadn’t clicked with us yet. My husband, we just moved. And he had single handedly carried all of our furniture into the 26 foot Penske and driven across the country.

And so he carried a ton of weight on his back. And then drove in a bumpy truck for a few days. And then when we got to where we’re living in Seattle, he unloaded the entire truck on his back. And a few days later, woke up with AFib. It went away after we had the visit to the hospital. A few years later, maybe even just a year later, we had a six year old girl sitting on my husband’s shoulders bouncing as we’re going for a hike with the girl’s mother. And a few hours later, actually, he woke up. It was in the middle night with acute AFib. At this point, we’re seeing a Naturopath. And so the Naturopath was like — this is an old school Naturopath. He said, “Well, AFib, a lot of times if it’s acute like this, it’s actually -nothing is wrong with the heart at all. And it’s an impingement in your thoracic spine. That there’s a nerve that innervates the heart that comes out of the thoracic spine. And you need to go see a chiropractor. You need to do some hot and cold compress, hot and cold showers and compresses on the back to flush the system, flush the inflammation. And go see the chiropractor.” And sure enough, the AFib went away.

And then we had – he had a third episode when we were doing CrossFit. A few years later, we were doing CrossFit and he was lifting the – he never lifted in CrossFit and felt really proud of himself. And then woke up that morning with AFib. And again, we’re like, “Okay. This is a sign.” We went to the chiropractor and we’re like we need to do something about this. So we ended up doing traction for him. Really helped traction and rebuilding his skeleton, you know, getting the nutrients. And we did lots of diet adjustments and got really on board with the holistic health along our journey. But it’s been years, years, years, years and he hasn’t had any AFib because we get regular chiropractic care. And he takes supplements to fill in the gaps with minerals. And he eats a whole food plant based diet.

And it’s just amazing because he would be a candidate for a pacemaker because three acute episodes of AFib is enough to be a candidate for a pacemaker. And so many people go that route not knowing that nothing’s wrong with the heart. But that they should really make sure that they’re decreasing inflammation, having a good diet, and seeing a chiropractor – a good chiropractor. Have you ever seen that in your practice?



00:22:36 Dr. Trent Mozingo: So yeah. And where my practice has taken – so when you think about – I’m a biochemistry guy. That’s where the book came from. That’s where my office is pointed at is, first we address biochemistry, which is food. I fell in love with biochemistry when I was in chiropractic school. And it was my favorite thing to learn, is how the human body uses food.

So more importantly, the way you describe that is the heart is a muscle. It’s what it is. It uses the same nutrients for the most part that your bicep does to move your arm. The nutrients, B vitamin complex, minerals that every muscle uses to contract every single time has to come from our food. As you lift a lot and you carry a bunch of furniture, you have a heavy CrossFit workout, without eating during that time, your body is going to deplete from the water soluble, B-vitamin complex. And you will become deficient. A deficient muscle will work unorganized. That is where I would push into the cause of that AFib is more of a B complex deficiency in the heart muscle, which beats a whole bunch of times. It contracts and relax 70 times a minute.

So an overall deficiency is, I would say, it’s an easier way to reproduce that symptom. So I say that because evidence based medicine requires that. Not every person with AFib gets a mid- back adjustment will see a positive change. So that’s where I lean into. I need to know what is more concrete that if I do this to every patient, I will get the same result. So that’s where I study nutrition. Because every human muscle needs the same nutrition. And if you’re deficient in it, you will have the same symptoms.



00:24:54 Ashley James: Uh-huh. I love it. Well, we have to address it as a whole. We can’t just say – like my husband didn’t only get a thoracic adjustment. It was a lot of a lot of change. But the table that you lie on at home that does traction on the back. He was changing his diet, which was decreasing inflammation. He was going more and more into a healthier diet. And then getting the adjustment through changing the diet and then adding supplements when needed. He was addressing those nutrient deficiencies, which is muscles. And heart being the most important muscle was deficient in. So you’re making sure that you’re looking at the person as a whole and their nutritional needs being the most important need of the body.



00:25:43 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Absolutely. I mean, there’s two things that are – the only things we take in is our food and our emotion, stress. And you have to get those right is the most important.



00:25:56 Ashley James: And stress is really hard because we don’t feel it until we’re about to break. People think stress is an emotion. “I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m doing fine.” And the body is freaking out because they’re constantly in stress mode. What do you do as a chiropractor to help your patients to manage stress?



00:26:17 Dr. Trent Mozingo: So as a chiropractor, the adjustment will help with physical, mechanical stress. Lack of mobility in any spinal segment will create stress which will create inflammation. So that’s one thing. But lifestyle change is really a major part of my system. Is, you have to figure what’s pushing you down and then work on it. And unfortunately for most people, it’s their 9:00 to 5:00 job.  They don’t love it. That’s hard because you can’t quit your job. You have to keep working. We have to keep making money to live. So finding a hobby,

finding something that fuels your body with joy is a very important factor in health. You can eat clean all day long. But if you hate your life, you’re going to suffer from health issues. So you can’t just address one part of it. You have to get your whole mind, body, spirit.



00:27:21 Ashley James: I would add to that. Find a hobby that includes a community. Isolation can really increase stress. So if you have a job that is not bringing you joy and that’s stressful or your job – maybe you love your job but it’s stressful. So you have stress and you can’t change your job. It’s one of those things that we’re like, “No. I’m not changing my job. It does give me a certain amount of stress whether I like it or not. Whether I like my job or don’t like my job, it does give me stress.” So in your free time, it’s like what can you do? And I would say, if you can find a hobby that brings you joy and brings you a new community. Community has been shown to decrease stress and also decrease depression and suicide. And increase a sense of well being. There’s even studies that show it increases longevity.



00:28:09 Dr. Trent Mozingo: I would agree with you 100%. Something as simple as family dinner.



00:28:15 Ashley James: I love that you mentioned that because we’re jumping into – I want to transition into talking about your book. Family dinner, you know we used to eat in front of the TV. So unhealthy and yet so many of us do it. And so we bought – we went on – I think it was Craigslist at the time. But now, it would be Facebook Marketplace or Offer Up. But we went online and we found a beautiful used table. It was just gorgeous. A gorgeous wooden table with a with a leaf so we can we can expand it for company. And we bought these IKEA chairs, used also, which was so great because we spent like so little money and got this beautiful dining room set. And we chose to have family dinner there. And it really made a difference.

The desire to cook a whole foods from scratch, the desire to feed my family. My friend, Naomi, says – and I love it – she’s a great cook. She goes, “I don’t like cooking but I love – ” and it brings me joy – “I love knowing what’s going into my children.” And so for her, the joy comes from – not necessarily comes from cooking itself. You don’t have to love cooking. But you’ll love sitting down at the table and nourishing and nurturing your family and having that beautiful family time and knowing that you’re feeding their 37 trillion cells. Goodness, right? And for me, I love cooking. It’s so much fun. I’m fine if I burn something in the kitchen because it’s just I’m big on just science experiments. I’m like Edison. I just learn a new way of not how to do it. But explore in the kitchen and I love coming up with these great recipes. I love coming up with these delicious meals that are also really healthy that my four year old will eat and my husband will eat.  And that that fills me with joy.

And sitting down at the table and spending that 20 minutes at the table, a-half-an-hour at the table with the family is priceless. There’s no amount of sitting at a TV and eating dinner that it would ever fulfill. And what I noticed – and there’s been studies done – that we actually consume less calories and more densely nutritious food when we cook it and sit at a table and eat it versus sitting at a computer or at the TV when we’re distracted. And we’re not we’re just eating – we’re eating as a habit without even really tasting or being present to it. And so when we’re present to our family and present to our food sitting at a table, we’re nourishing our body, we’re decreasing our stress but we’re also consuming less calories. And we’re listening to the thermostat of our body tell us that we’re actually full when we’re full.



00:30:56 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. I mean, you’re describing is you’re getting back that positive relationship with food. Because our culture has misconstrued the idea that food is about quantity at a cheap price. And the birth of the buffet, if you will –



00:31:27 Ashley James: And the Dollar Menu.



00:31:28 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yeah. We have an idea that food is just there to fill our tank and we keep moving forward. We have lost that bond and intimacy between this food that you’re sticking in your mouth is literally what builds your human body. You are nothing more than accumulation of everything you’ve eaten to this day. How good did you do?

Photo by Scott Warman on Unsplash


00:31:57 Ashley James: Right. We need to remember that. We really need to remember, everything goes into our mouth is building ourselves. I mean do we really want ourselves built out of McDonald’s or some kind of box cereal? I just look at – oh, I look at all those aisles. I’ve said this on the show before. But my first awakening to healthy eating, my first awakening, I was really sick. I had polycystic ovarian syndrome, type two diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue. I had chronic monthly infections for which I was on constant antibiotics for. So I was a mess. I could hardly function in life and I was in my 20s – in my 20s. And I was significantly overweight. And I was told by an endocrinologist I would never have kids. I didn’t fertility. And my husband, he was fairly fit because he was a carpenter but he had issues as well. But he was more functioning in the world than I was at the time. And this was back in 2008.

We watched one of the health documentaries on Netflix, like Food, Inc. or Forks Over Knives. And we heard shop the perimeter of the grocery store. And it was just like this new idea to me. Like, “Oh, you mean don’t go down the aisles and eat packaged food.” And I know that sounds so obvious now. But to a 20 year old with, like, six health problems, that wasn’t obvious advice. And so we chose to eat organic and shop the perimeter of the grocery store. And at the end of the month – the first month, I was amazed at how much square footage in the grocery store is completely useless crap.

It was just like, “Wow. We really don’t need to go down any of these aisles.” Maybe the bulk section for brown rice or lentils or something, right? Or maybe the spice section, which could be like a bulk section also for some grocery stores. But other than that, you just don’t – maybe some canned goods once in a while, like canned tomatoes. Single ingredient canned food is fine. But other than that, there’s no going down these aisles.

And in my first month of doing that, my chronic infections went away. And I thought if I can affect my health with one change to my diet, what else can I do? And that began my journey many, many years ago. So shifting that idea of what is really food? And do I really want to build cells out of what I’m eating today? And the meal that’s in front of me, this Dollar Menu or whatever, do I really want to build cells out of this?



00:34:33 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. I always say, the biggest struggle we have as a culture in regard to our health is just the mixed emotion of who’s responsible for it. We have lost that self-responsibility. We don’t take responsibility for our health anymore. We wait until we’re sick and then we expect some doctor to fix it. And the perception that the only way to fix a problem is with a medication is being sold to everyone. And they’re buying. Everyone is buying in. And it’s costing – I think our healthcare costs over 1.3 trillion a year now.



00:35:18 Ashley James: Our nation and other nations like Canada, Australia, they have a little bit of a different medical system, obviously. But their numbers are not great either. But ours, the United States, spends the most out of every nation. Spends the most on healthcare and actually has the worst healthcare from all the industrialized nations. It’s just like the outcomes are horrible. And yet we’re spending the most. So the system is broken. It doesn’t work.

Most of my listeners have awoken to this. They understand this concept. Most of them – because they’re listening. If you’re listening, you’re taking responsibility on some level for your health because you’re willing to educate yourself and you’re excited to. And my listeners are really passionate and excited to learn from experts like you. So we do have a bit of a different demographic for people who are listening, which is great.



00:36:12 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yes. And there’s a lot more resources coming out that are opening so many eyes to this change – this beautiful change in healthcare in general from this reductionist alopathic thing to taking control, learning what food does. And that’s really to be one of those resources. That’s the reason I wrote the book in the first place. I was doing consultations for patients trying to explain this to them. And it would take an hour, two our consultations, and I was going to go broke. But it was my passion. So I had to figure out a way for people to learn what I – for people to gather what I’ve learned. All the pieces of this puzzle I’ve put together. So that’s where I started to write this book. And I was never a writer. I didn’t even like English class growing up. Like I said, I’m left handed. I was great at math. I’m not much of a writer. So to write a 350 page book, it took me some time but it really turned out pretty good. And as a resource, it really helps just nail it down, figure out why, what’s going wrong, and how to fix it.



00:37:21 Ashley James: So tell us about your book. Since you basically have compiled everything that you took. It would take like an hour or two hours to teach individual clients. And you compiled it into a book that you wish everyone knew. Don’t you just want to just download your book into everyone’s brain? Wouldn’t that make such a big difference in this world?



00:37:42 Dr. Trent Mozingo: It would be so easy because getting people to read a book these days is also difficult. YouTube is there. And that’s another avenue I plan to take to do some more audio ideas.



00:37:56 Ashley James: Have you recorded an audio version of your book?



00:37:59 Dr. Trent Mozingo: I’m working on it. I want to do it myself just to make it feel more genuine.



00:38:02 Ashley James: You should. Yeah. Totally do it yourself. You know what I love? I love it when authors go off script. Like, you’re reading your book and then all of a sudden you just get this idea in your head. And you’re like, “You know, I’m just going to tell them some stuff.” And it’s totally cool. I love the doctors that do that. The listener still gets the whole book but you get a little bit added things come to your mind and you just want to add in some stuff. I love audiobooks like that because they feel so genuine. They really feel like you’re just sitting with the doctor. So anyway, that’s my two cents when you finish recording your book.

And let us know when you finish recording your audio book and you release it. Or maybe we’ll have you back on or something to promote it and let us know about it. Because there are some listeners who won’t read books that they’ll definitely listen to them.

Now, your book is called The Weight Is Over. And you started telling me about it. I’m like salivating when you’re telling me about it. I got so excited. Like Pavlovian response to something exciting. You started by painting this picture. What happened to our food history? Like, what happened to food? I was just telling a guest or a listener this morning in the Facebook Group – in our Learn True Health Facebook Group – she said something like, why is it that my grandmother who raised – I don’t know how many – she said raised, like, seven children, for example. She’s like, why is that my grandmother who raised a bunch of children and my mom raised a bunch of children, they didn’t have these resources like the Learn True Health Podcast to help them? But they didn’t have the illnesses that we have and our children have. I keep thinking, how did my grandmother do it with seven or nine kids? But she also didn’t have all the problems we have. What has gone on?

And so I kind of went on a rant about like, well, in the last 30 years, there’s over 30,000 chemicals in our food that our body doesn’t even recognize. Think about everything in our environment that has completely changed.  And we just have so much artificial chemicals in our water and air and food that our body doesn’t even know what to do with. And then, of course now, it’s all hyper palatable, highly processed foods with salt, sugar and oil. And that just leads us down a really destructive path as we can see.

So I’d love for you to teach us something from your book. Tell us about the history of food as it relates to our health. Obviously, because food is our health, as you’ve pointed out. It builds our cells. And what’s happened in the last hundred years or so that has made it so that we are so sick now?



00:40:35 Dr. Trent Mozingo: That is the principle of the book is to help people to learn how the human body works. I grew up on a farm, we talked about that a bit ago. But the education that I got growing up actually played a huge role in my ability to write this book or even understand what I understand as far as the human body. Is because being the youngest of four children, my two older brothers were seven and nine years older than me, they were like my mentors. And my parents gave us a ton of responsibility. We had to fix things. So if it broke down, we didn’t have enough money to pay someone so we had to fix it. So most important education I got growing up is I learned how to figure out how things work. And that is the most valuable factor in trying to fix something. You can’t possibly fix a problem on a tractor or a wood splitter or a weed eater until you know how it works.

So as I got into chiropractic school, I realized that figuring out what is wrong with a patient, figuring out diagnosing a problem, is nothing more than clicking in your brain how the human body works and what would happen if it wasn’t working properly. That would be a symptom. Like a tractor not running would be a pretty serious symptom. You had to figure out what is wrong the engine. If someone’s thyroid gland wasn’t functioning properly, their metabolism was slow. I needed to know how the human body worked in order to be able to give them a possible probable fix.

So as I was researching biochemistry and how the human body worked, all these things started to link together. So that’s really where the book goes to, is teaching you how every human function is linked together. You can’t just break apart one part.

So I started to also learn that nutrition played a major role. And then I could see the writing on the wall that everyone is becoming overweight and diabetic, for the most part. And other conditions like Fibromyalgia is skyrocketing. And hypothyroid function is skyrocketing. And Synthroid is becoming the most prescribed medication in the country. And so I started to link these things together.

And as I started doing research on what happened, that really broke it open for me how food is the reason. And so I started to figure out what diets work better. And I started to write about them, you know, intermittent fasting or Mediterranean or keto diet or Atkins diet, all these different diets and why they don’t work. So that went into my research as well.

So then I started the link back to the history of mankind. As the human body was developed, we only had two stresses back in, we’ll say 180 A.D. Two stresses is all we had. We had to find food and we had to stay alive. Not get eaten as prey. That’s it. Finding a mate was another part of it but it wasn’t really a stress. That was the three functions of life is, finding food, not getting eaten as prey, and finding a mate and reproducing. Those are our three functions.



00:44:01 Ashley James: And we also had community. We lived as a tribe. We’re tribal people. We weren’t nomads. We lived as a community. So we didn’t have the stresses that we do now, like a mother isolated, having no help taking care of a newborn. We had the entire community. The tribe took care of all the children with the parents. And we also leaned on our sisters and our brothers and leaned on our aunts, leaned on the whole community. So that decreases stress a lot when you grow up as a tribe.



00:44:32 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. And there were no lights. There were no televisions. There was no freezer. So food was very fresh, which was a great thing. Meat was very fresh because it was killed and eaten within a week. And when night fell, you fell asleep. When it was dark, you went to sleep. When the light came back, when the sun comes out, you woke up. And as I was studying that factor, then you can go into the cortisol and melatonin rhythm, if you want to. Where cortisol peaks in the morning. That gets you up and gets you ready for the day. And melatonin drops off. And then as the day goes on and you exercise, cortisol drops and melatonin spikes and makes you fall asleep and it happens daily. But that’s with a normal rhythm. That’s following daylight and dark.

Since then, we have TV shows on until 1:00 in the morning. Or night clubs open until 2:00 in the morning. And it’s just a totally different world. But more importantly, the food was very fresh. And we didn’t have a job. We just had to find food or do the community whatever your task was. It wasn’t like a job where you make money.

But around the 1800s, the industrial revolution happened. And farmers stopped – through the 1800s, one farmer would raise the tomatoes, one farmer would raise the pigs, one farmer would raise eggs, and you would share. That was another community thing. A very positive thing. You had a little general store, you trade, you had barter. That was life then.

But during the industrial revolution, everything changed. Because instead of that bartering system, instead of waking up every day with only a job to either help the community or feed the community, you had to go to work. Factory life became a thing. Services became a commodity. You had to make money then, to buy food.

And that really changed our perception of what food is. We went from a life centered around creating your food to nourish your body and your family and your community to a life of you go to work to buy food to feed your family.

And during that time people stopped really, like said, lose that intimacy with food. Where when you go to work – most people when they go to work, they don’t love their job. They can only wait to lunch. But it’s not because they get to nourish their human body with food. It’s because lunch means leaving work for 30 minutes or an hour. That is a very unhealthy relationship with food.

They’re not thinking that, “Okay. In one hour, I get to go and fill my body with B complex vitamins from a green leafy salad.” They think, “I want something quick so I can sit in my car and be out of work for 30 minutes.”



00:47:40 Ashley James: Or they’re looking to satisfy joy. That’s what I did for many years. I was really leaning on food for emotional support. So going to In and Out or going to Jack-in-the-Box or KFC or going out for sushi or Chinese food or pizza, you know, just all those fun foods was about fun and joy. Because that would help me decrease stress because it’s like a drug. You get to have an escape. It’s like I just was shooting up heroin going through the drive thru. It was like shooting up my own little drug. Because that would be that little break. That little 30 minute break was fun. Finding the pleasure in food. And that decreases stress temporarily. But then you’re right back at work and now your body’s inflamed from that horrible food. So now it increases more stress and it’s this vicious cycle.



00:48:42 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. And then really, where we went as a country went wrong was in 1977. So during the 1900s, the industrial revolution, again, food started becoming processed. The people that were trying to keep it from being processed were being hushed by the powers that be, that being the people that are making money from food.

So the FDA was developed around 1900 or 1912, I think it was. There was a guy named Wiley – Dr. Wiley. He’s actually from Indiana. Not far from where I’m from. Interesting. But he started to discover how when you start bleaching wheat, you increase health problems. So he was against wheat being processed. It’s supposed to be aged. And the powers that be hushed him. And then he got kicked out of the FDA and the new owners took over.

But more importantly, in 77, a guy named George McGovern had a committee to try and stop processed foods. His committee was developed in the 60s. There was a CBS airing, I think it was, it was called Hunger in America, where Northern Alabama, Northern Mississippi into West Virginia, that little area there, was starving. They were underfed. There was no industry there. As the industrial revolution came about there wasn’t any food there because the local stopped growing food. And there wasn’t a lot of money to buy food so people were actually starving. Well, the government stepped in and they started a committee with Senator McGovern and he created the WIC program. The food stamp program to help those families at the areas. And it worked. They’re no longer hungry. Food stamps was a beautiful thing. It helped the people that couldn’t make money anymore – or couldn’t make enough money – I’m sorry – to feed the family as it should. Ironically, those areas are now overweight – the most overweight area in America.



00:51:00  Ashley James: Right. Because food stamps were – you couldn’t even buy potatoes with food stamps. You couldn’t buy healthy wholesome foods. You couldn’t buy fresh vegetables. And it was just – it’s like packaged. They wanted you to buy the Kellogg’s and the the Kraft.



00:51:24 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Our government subsidized food but they only subsidize the processed food that was making the food industry lots of money. They didn’t become overweight until many years later. So this a total afterthought. There’s no way to project that because at this point, in the 60s and 70s, they still thought that this food was perfectly safe and healthy. We were still being taught that this food is safe and healthy. But in 77 people started becoming overweight. During the 60s and 70s, the rest of the country we’re becoming unhealthy. Cancer levels are going up. Diabetes levels were going up. Heart disease was a big one that was going up. So Senator McGovern, also at that point, started to say that the government should step in and educate properly on healthy nutrition.

Unfortunately for us, he listened to Ancel Keys. If you know who that is. He did a seven country study, it’s called – where he cherry picked seven countries that showed that fat was the devil. And Senator McGovern listened to him. There was another guy doing research, named Yudkin, who was saying sugar is the devil. And Ancel Keys had a louder voice. So he hushed the Yudkin guy.


00:52:48 Ashley James: It’s so amazing when we look at history and it’s just one person. People sometimes feel powerless. Who am I? There’s billions of people and who am I to make a difference to this world. This, this story is an example of how one person can influence millions of people’s lives for generations. If you listen to Yudkin, how much different would the world be if we had reduced our sugar intake in the in the 70s and 80s and 90s, all the way to the day. If we had reduced our sugar intake versus making foods artificially low fat which then you put more sugar in, right?  Oh my gosh, that is just amazing. One person.



00:53:38 Dr. Trent Mozingo: And mainstream government talk was about how cholesterol was raised because of animal fat instead of sugar. But even worse for us as a country. Senator McGovern had the right idea. He made the McGovern Report and it was designed around just cutting calories. We’re eating too much. We need to eat healthier and more whole foods. More fruits and vegetables. And they’re shut him down. The powers that be, the medical in the food industry, shut it down because that, in 1977, they got shut down. And then his committee got shut down. And in the 80s, 1981 or two, that’s when we got the food pyramid. That is where the special interest of the food and pharmaceutical industry took precedence over American health in 1977. And if you look at any chart, you can look at any of them, diabetes prevalence, ADHD prevalence, inflammation in general prevalence, heart disease prevalence, all of them. If you look at them on the chart, they are steady until about 50. And they climb a little bit. In 60, they climb a little bit. In 70, they climbed. In 80, it skyrockets.



00:54:53 Ashley James: When the little climbs are the transitioning from the single income family where the mother stays home and cooks meals from whole foods. And that in America and other industrialized nations where we could afford to have, most of the time – obviously, there’s exceptions to the norm – but most of the time, the husband went to work, the mother stayed home and cooked. Or if the mother had a job as well, there was an agreement that the family ate at home. Eating at restaurants was a rare treat. And that there was no such thing as like, delivery pizza. I mean, really think about the 50s. we’re eating, we’re getting together and sitting down as a family and we’re eating our meals. In that these meals, we know what all the ingredients are.



00:55:43 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Absolutely. And since then, it’s gotten – I mean, it just gotten worse.



00:55:49 Ashley James: Right. The invention of the microwave dinner, the frozen dinner, right? Was that in the 60s that that came into play? The family would then just get these little frozen dinners and put them in the oven.



00:56:00 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. TV dinners.



00:56:02 Ashley James: TV dinner.



00:56:03 Dr. Trent Mozingo: And they showed the commercials eating in front of the TV on your TV tray. That became normal. And it made sense for people. It was easy, quick, fast. You can get back to work and make more money. Where you buy an expensive car and house but don’t buy expensive food, that is our culture. And it is creating this epidemic.



00:56:27 Ashley James: It just slowly — if we caught it in the 60s or 70s, if we’d caught it, instead of going fat is bad for the last 40 years. If we had gone highly processed sugar and probably processed food is bad and stick with how we ate in the 40s and before that, we would definitely have significantly less disease. Do you think – I mean, this is a conspiracy theory. But do you think that the pharmaceutical companies influenced – really helped try to influence the Food and Drug Administration and try to influence the government to create the food triangle, the food pyramid, in order to create disease? Do you think that it was really conscious? Like, “Look, if we do this we’re going to create more disease and sell more drugs. So we really need to push this agenda.”



00:57:29 Dr. Trent Mozingo: I would say they had an agenda to make money. That’s the best way I can explain that. I can’t say that they wanted to make people sick. But they wanted to sell medicine. I think they genuinely thought their medicine helped. Again, the pharmaceutical industry never sees the whole big picture. They see a problem. They try to fix it with a synthetic idea. They try to synthesize health. They genuinely think they’re doing it right. It’s just that they’re wrong.

So they’re trying to fix an issue without cutting off the source of the problem, I guess is the best way for me to explain that. because the source of the problem continues to make them money. And the source of the problem continues to make the food industry money. So what they’re doing is basically in this big cycle of I make money. You make money. I make money. You make money. I make money. You make money. People are staying alive. The longevity –



00:58:35 Ashley James: Long enough for them to make money. They’re staying alive long enough to make money. But our longevity is going down that –



00:58:47 Dr. Trent Mozingo: We have started [inaudible 00:58:48].



00:58:48 Ashley James: Right. We started to go where our children will not – like they’re saying, on average, our children will die before we die. If we live to our 70s, our children are going to live to be 60, basically. It’s going downhill. They’re seeing a decline in our longevity. So we’re really, really going the wrong direction. But we’re seeing that one in three people will have a diagnosis of cancer in their lifetime. That 70% of people have a weight problem. One in three people have pre-diabetes or a diabetic. There’s a major chronic epidemic of – over 70% of adult Americans are on at least one prescription medication. And that it’s being taught that that is normal.

I rarely see MDs. I go to a Naturopath. But I went to an MD yesterday for a checkup – a female checkup, which I’m happy to go to because I really like her. But I don’t buy into any of the – you know, like she said, “I’m going to be 40 soon so I should get a mammogram.” And I almost laughed so hard. I’m like, “Yeah. That’s not going to happen.” And then they offered me the flu shot. They offered me the flu shot and then took my blood pressure, which was really laughable. Because I became so irate them offering me the flu shot and then they took my blood pressure. So my blood pressure was through the roof, which was really funny. Because a week ago when I had it at my Naturopath’s office, it was like 110 over 70. But in the MD’s office, it was like 137 over 93. And I’m like, “Yeah. Because you just offered me a flu shot.” Really, they do that in that order. Offer them a flu shot then quickly take their blood pressure while they’re still upset and then get them on blood pressure medication.

Photo by Hyttalo Souza on Unsplash


01:00:28 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Oh, yeah. You can take this, It won’t hurt you. That’s what they’ll tell you.



01:00:31 Ashley James: Right. Exactly. Yeah. So they were shocked because the nurse was asking me some details before the doctor comes in the office. “And what medications are you on?” Because I had written zero on the form and she didn’t believe that I was on zero medications. I think she asked me three different ways. I’m like, “I’m 39 years old. I’m not on any medications.” And she couldn’t understand it. Like, it didn’t make sense to her. Because every single person that goes in the office is on at least one medication. Because it’s rare, it is rare to be healthy enough to not need a medication. And that is the state of our health right now. So you help people heal their bodies with diet. You help them bring their bodies back into balance and get off of medications healthfully because their body has come back into balance. And what we’re being taught in the mainstream by our by our MDs – and they’re lovely people by the way. Like, this MD I went to yesterday, I love her. She’s a great OB-GYN. And I really, really love her for that specialty. But I would never take food advice, for example.

You just have to know. You don’t go to your mechanic and get carpentry advice, right? You don’t go to your carpenter and get electrical advice, unless that’s their specialty, unless they actually know what they’re talking about. You go to the right professional for the right information. And she is wonderful in what she does in her specialty. But our MDs are taught that food plays a very minor role in our health. And we really need to manage our health with drugs. Because that’s their education. So we have to know to go to the right doctor for the right information. And when we go to a chiropractor, we’re actually getting more science based nutritional information from our chiropractor than we ever would from an MD. Because don’t you have at least an entire year of nutritional training in school, whereas MDs have something like eight hours.


01:02:34 Dr. Trent Mozingo: There’s always some – okay. So nutritional training, that’s hard to explain. Because you can’t just train someone on nutrition. You have to train them on what nutrition breaks down into. So what foods break down into is what’s actually important. Whether it’s minerals or amino acids or proteins or whatever.

So in chiropractic education, this is the most important factor here. MDs are doing everything that they’re taught. They’re not doing anything wrong. They’re doing what they’re trained to do. They’re trained in a reduction style thought process. What they’re trained to do is come up with a symptom, figure out a test to pinpoint exactly what is wrong and only address that. They keep blindfolds on how the integration and interconnection of the human body works, which is why we have specialists. We have a kidney doctor, a heart doctor, and oncologist doctor, an OB-GYN. They’re trained for one specific thing. And that doesn’t work.

Because for example, blood pressure, it goes up. So we send people to cardiology. Makes sense, right? Why wouldn’t you send them to a Nephrologist for their kidney? Because a kidney plays more role in blood pressure than your heart does. Your heart is just pumping the stuff. The kidney is actually what retain water and keep your volume. Those things always blow my mind. Which is why when you go to an orthopedic doc when you have swollen lower leg, they never really address the kidney function. They’ll send you to a heart doctor. In reality, it’s usually the kidneys are not releasing the right amount of water. You’re retaining it. Your blood is pooling. And then secondary, you can do a cardio.

So in that thought process, they are missing all of these big pictures. Which is why when you go to one doc, you get a med for blood pressure, which jacks up your kidneys. Then you go the next doc and get a medication to help your kidneys function. And all the while these medications are being processed by the liver and messing it up too.



01:05:02 Ashley James: Does high blood pressure medication harm the kidneys?



01:05:06 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Well, it changes the way they function. A water pill, for example, it opens the kidneys up. It makes you pee more. So what they’re doing is they’re synthesizing another function. They’re basically altering another function to help the one function that they’re trying to treat, which just creates another dysfunction. Then they medicate for that which creates another dysfunction, which is grassroots marketing. They’re going to get you on three meds, not one.



01:05:35 Ashley James: They’re forcing – forcing the body to do something. And it’s the hubris of the pharmaceutical industry and the pharmaceutical trained doctor to believe that we are smarter than the body. Right? Because I’m going to take a drug and force the body to do something, which then has all these other disastrous effects because we’re not getting to the root cause. And we’re really just still treating symptoms.



01:06:07 Dr. Trent Mozingo: They’re trying to supersede the majesty of nature. The body created itself from two cells. And they’re trying to think that their medication is necessary. I don’t understand that thought process. Your 37 trillion cells from two. And you think your body is deficient on blood pressure medication? I can’t perceive that.



01:06:33  Ashley James: So when you have a patient come in with high blood pressure, what do you do?



01:06:38 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Talk to him about what’s going wrong. So that’s the beauty of the second section of the book. I go through in detail how everything is connected and how everyone is at the same – they’re on the same slippery slope. And that goes through the functions. So I teach you how food works inside your body. What happens when you don’t eat the right food inside the body? And I’ll also explain to you how the medical system is doing it backwards? That section too. And if you want, I can explain to you how we are at the level we are in a very systematic way.



01:07:15 Ashley James: Please.



01:07:18 Dr. Trent Mozingo: So again, I studied how the human body works. I can’t fix it until I know how it works. So I realized that it’s all a very fluid motion. When you eat, it goes in your digestive system. Makes sense. Well, your digestive system is made to break down proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. That is all. Your mouth breaks down carbohydrates and fats. There’s enzymes released in the mouth to break down carbohydrates and fats. And it breaks down fats. Because if you ever pick up a steak, you get slime on your hands. Right? And you can’t get that slime off.



01:07:55 Ashley James: You mean raw? Are you talking about raw? If you touch raw chicken or –



01:08:00 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yes. If you pick up a fish, it’s slimy. And you can’t get that slime off your hands until you do soap. Well, you didn’t have lipase in your mouth, your mouth will stay slimy. That’s what’s it there for, to clean your mouth. That’s an interesting thought.

So you have lipase and amylase. I think that’s the one in the mouth. That breaks down carbohydrates and fats. Now, amylase is in there or the carbohydrate breaking down enzymes, I think it’s amylase in the mouth. It’s there for a reason. So it’s monitoring how much sugar is coming in. It’s a monitoring system. If you have a food that is only carbohydrates, which is a fruit or vegetable or grain, they won’t have much fat so the lipase won’t be usable. So the body knows carbohydrates are coming. So the mouth is now signaling the pancreas. “Look, pancreas. We have sugar coming.” Sugar is coming, you need to get ready with some with some insulin. Get ready. Get it. Chew it. Swallow it. It goes to the stomach. Pancreas kicks in.

If you eat something and it’s a fish or meat, it’s going to be fatty. It’s not going to have any carbohydrate in it so it won’t register that for the pancreas. But it’s going to tell the pancreas we got fat and protein coming. “All right. Pancreas, you gotta get ready because that releases protein digestive enzymes. Also liver and gallbladder, you gotta get ready because you’re going to release bile to break down the fat.”



01:09:29 Ashley James: I love that you’re painting this picture. Because we don’t chew our food enough. We really don’t. Especially if we’re eating in our car, like you said, that quick lunch break or we’re sitting in front of the TV, we just don’t chew our food. It’s so funny. I’ve seen this on so many Facebook Groups that I’m in for health stuff where people go, “In the toilet, I saw -” you know, whatever they ate, they’re like “- does that mean I’m not digesting?” And everyone is saying, “You’re not chewing your food.” We think that we’re basically swallowing food whole and that our gut is supposed to digest it. But the major part of our digestion starts with chewing.

And so how many chews do we do? Like, I’ve heard 20. I’ve heard someone say 50. How much should we chew the food until it’s properly digested? Like, the process of digestion starts in the mouth.



01:10:22 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. The mouth is setting your digestive system up for what is coming. It’s getting your body ready. So chewing is a time. It’s a monitoring system. There’s no one size fits all amount of chews per food because some things are chewier than others. Some of them are pretty soft and you can kind of squish them with your tongue on the top of your mouth. I do that a lot with fruit, because my teeth are really sensitive.

So after you chew and you swallow, the body has already figured it out. “Okay. I got proteins, I got fats, and I got carbs coming.” That’s what the mouth tells it. So it drops into the stomach. Or or the stomach is a very, very, very, very, very, acidic place. Hydrochloric acid and pepsin are released from the stomach lining to continue to break down the proteins. They’re very hard to break down. It needs to be super acidic in the stomach to break down food. Now, it’s made to break down proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. When you put chemicals in your stomach, your stomach can’t break it down. It doesn’t know how. It’s like putting vegetable oil in a gasoline car. It’s not going to turn out very good for you. It doesn’t know how to burn it. It doesn’t know how to metabolize. It doesn’t know how to break it down. So that’s when we get acid reflux. The stomach acid is ineffective. So your stomach acid falls. The levels fall. Your stomach becomes basic. Not too acidic. It becomes too basic. Now, there’s only two directions for food to go, down the small intestine or back up.

Well if it’s not digested, the small intestine doesn’t want it. It can’t break it down. And this is bad news across the board. So acid reflux. You want to regurgitate back out. That’s what the body is trying to do. Get this junk food that you just stuck it out. The medical world says, “Let’s just shut that function down. Let’s use antacids.” This is a terrible idea.



01:12:19 Ashley James: Because the problem in the first place was not enough acid, not enough digestion in the stomach, and not enough digestion in the mouth. I was just thinking as you’re talking about chewing, it’s like people who have weak digestive tracts, who have constant problems with bloating or gas or diarrhea or constipation or problems with GERD, with acid reflux, that if they spent more time chewing – my mom would light candles turn on classical music, and turn off all the lights in the kitchen where our kitchen table was. And she would have a bunch of candles lit on the table and she would set an atmosphere. Which is so funny because I was a kid and my dad doesn’t care at all. But my mom was, she found that it would help her digestion if she set the ambience to just take a breath, calm down, and set the atmosphere for digestion.



01:13:16 Dr. Trent Mozingo: That’s a fun fact. Because you’re describing the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system. You can’t digest in the sympathetic nervous system.



01:13:25 Ashley James: The fight or flight response.



01:13:26 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yeah. The fight or flight response will shut off your internal organs to put more blood flow and energy to your muscles so you can run or fight. So she’s calming herself down to get into that parasympathetic rest and digest system. And that does make a lot of sense.



01:13:42 Ashley James: And it also helps us chew because now we’re calmer. And now we’re not trying to race through the meal. So we’re willing to sit there and chew and then swallow and enjoy the company we have and enjoy the food. But also your taking the extra time to tell the pancreas and tell the stomach and tell the liver and gallbladder to get ready to digest and assimilate the food.



01:14:12 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. So as it keeps moving down the digestive system, the stomach’s got to work. It’s the most important thing for digestion is to liquefy your food. It needs to be liquefied for the most part before it hits your small intestine or else we’re going downhill fast. So antacids are, in my opinion, the worst thing you can stick in your mouth. You shut off the stomach acid, you are going to have problems. Fun fact, I have never had a fibromyalgia patients come in my office that doesn’t have a history of antacid use.



01:14:47 Ashley James: Yeah. That makes sense.



01:14:49 Dr. Trent Mozingo: And that’s actually what really got me thinking about this inner connection is fibromyalgia. And I’ll explain that in a second. So as the time goes on and the body is starving, right? This is one of the main problems of our overweight epidemic. We are starving for food because, actually, we’re starving for nutrients. Because there’s none in our food. So the body is just constantly saying, “I need vitamins and minerals. You’re giving me zero vitamins and minerals.” Your muscles need them every day, every second, every cell, trillions of them need them all the time. And we’re giving them zero. I have patients that come in and have zero, zero whole foods in their diet every day and drink nothing but soda, no water. And I explained to them, “Have you ever fed your plant Coca-Cola?” And they said no. I said if you do it, it will die. And they don’t like that conversation.

So water is very essential. But you can’t drink a lot of water when you’re eating either because that will also increase the base level in your stomach. Decrease the acidity. Because water is pretty much even base – a neutral base. So anyway, as we get hungry and the body just starts to do whatever it can to let this junk food go through the digestive tract. We don’t have an enzyme in our pancreas to digest chemicals. We can’t. It just doesn’t work. So all things considered in the small intestine is where your nutrients are absorbed into the body. Not the large intestine. The small intestine. The large intestine – Dr. McBride talk to you about it. I heard your podcast. – that’s the most important as far as that GAPS diet. The large intestine is more of your immunity, more of your brain connection. But small intestine is actually the workhorse. It’s the one that brings your food into your body.

And it comes in through the portal vein. The mesenteric veins around every bit of the intestines and they filter straight through to the liver. So as we eat this junk food, our digestive system crashes. We have digestive distress from constipation to diarrhea to gallbladder dysfunction to pancreatic inflammation, pancreatitis, if you will, all these things are major problems in the digestive system. But unfortunately, the bad stuff gets through. And the liver becomes toxic. This is the main problem for most folks. Because liver becomes inflamed and your midsection grows. Fat around the liver.

Fatty liver disease is bad. And it’s an epidemic. But more importantly, drug induced liver injury is more prevalent than alcohol now.

Photo by Marcel Heil on Unsplash



01:17:46 Ashley James: Well, like Stanton’s are so, so, so common. Cholesterol lowering drugs. But no one takes the time to learn how they function. And when people learn how they function, they’re really motivated to not get – not beyond that and to get off them and to change their diet and lifestyle to create healthy cholesterol. Because we don’t just want to lower cholesterol. That’s such a misnomer. In fact, triglycerides are the marker, really, that we need to look at. But to have healthy levels of cholesterol, we need a really clean healthy diet and good – moving our bodies in a way that brings us joy every day. And that really helps bring cholesterol back into balance. And obviously, avoiding processed foods that raise the blood sugar like flour and sugar itself.

But what people don’t know is that these cholesterol lowering drugs how they function

because people think magically – just magically, they lower cholesterol. But what they’re doing is they damage the liver on purpose. They’re like punching your liver and they damage your liver on purpose to the point where you’re liver ceases to function correctly, because our liver makes 30% of our cholesterol. If someone eats a diet with animals in it, 30% of your cholesterol on average is made by your liver. If you eat no animals at all and you’re eating no cholesterol, your liver produces all of your cholesterol. If you’re like a raw vegan or something and you’re getting absolutely no fat whatsoever, I mean you’re just getting such a small amount of fat from fruit basically, those people have healthy cholesterol levels. But they’re not eating any because their liver produces cholesterol. And so the majority of our older population is automatically put on Stanton’s.

There’s a few people on our Facebook Group have said – in the Learn True Health Facebook Group have said that when they went into the hospital, they were automatically given cholesterol. The people that get admitted to hospitals are automatically given cholesterol  lowering medications, given Stanton’s. And what the Stanton’s do is they bruise and harm the liver to the point where the liver ceases to function and ceases to make cholesterol. But that does nothing to stop you from eating cholesterol, which isn’t necessarily bad. And that’s a whole myth busting. We could have you back on for an entire episode around that. And it doesn’t necessarily affect the damage done by the – so triglycerides being you’re seeing damage being done. It’s like seeing the smoke, right? They’re altering the smoke. They’re not they’re not putting out the fire. And in fact, they’re making a whole new fire in the body. So there’s a lot of myth around cholesterol. But you’re saying that the pharmaceuticals people are on are damaging the liver, are clogging it up, and are causing fatty liver syndrome more so than alcoholism causes fatty liver.



01:21:00  Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yes. Yes.



01:21:00 Ashley James: My mom died of liver failure. She died of liver cancer.



01:21:06 Dr. Trent Mozingo: I’m sorry.



01:21:06 Ashley James: So I personally have seen how quickly someone can go south when their liver is compromised, you die quickly. It is a painful and quick death within a matter of weeks the more and more it gets compromised. If our liver is compromised, we are guaranteeing that we’re having a shorter lifespan that is going to be filled with more problems down the road. So we want to protect our liver and not damage it permanently from years of pharmaceutical use.

And when I say pharmaceutical use, there’s always that caveat of pharmaceuticals that save people’s lives and that’s been phenomenal. We’re obviously not – there’s no dogmatic thinking here. If there’s a drug to save your life, I want you to be alive. But if there’s an unnecessary drug that people are just being put on because that’s just what doctors do. All the doctors are putting everyone on sentence because that’s just like the new thing that they’re all doing. And it doesn’t actually help you.

And I’ve had four cardiologists on the show, all of them reverse heart disease with diet. All of them. And they all say, all four of them have said that Stanton’s do not prevent heart disease. The only thing they’ve seen in studies is that Stanton’s, after your first heart attack, if you then get on Stanton’s, can marginally prevent the second heart attack.



01:22:40 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yeah. I read that study. You know what I think? It actually works to marginally prevent the second heart attack is having a heart attack.



01:22:51 Ashley James: Right. Because it wakes them up and go, “Oh. I lived. I should really start shaking myself.”



01:22:54 Dr. Trent Mozingo: “Hey, I probably should do something here.”



01:23:00 Ashley James: That’s so funny. And then they’re taking that data and going, “It was the Stanton’s that’s helping.” That’s so funny.



01:23:07 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yeah. So the liver, again, you’re right. It’s so vitally important. It’s actually the only organ that can regenerate. If you [inaudible 01:23:20], it will grow back. It’s amazing how the liver works. So as I talked about in this book and further down this rabbit hole, digestion is number one. When it goes down, you’re going slippery slope. And it’s a very slippery slope. Because the liver becomes toxic. Because your digestive system starts letting junk through. So your liver becomes jacked up on high fructose corn syrup. And it’s in everything.

Which is why everyone has liver dysfunction and digestive dysfunction and low thyroid function. Everyone that’s overweight, this is where they’re at. Their doctor can run tests all day long and say, “Nope. Your TSH levels are fine.” Which is a total joke of a test as far as thyroid function goes. But if your body temperature is under 98.6, it’s not good news. Your metabolism is slow and it’s because of liver dysfunction and thyroid dysfunction. And I say that because the thyroid actually functions in the liver. They’re connected. This is a connection, I don’t help people to understand.


You go into a doctor’s office and they prescribed you Synthroid and they don’t ever address your liver enzymes. They’re doing you a disservice, because the thyroid gland releases two hormones, T4 and T3. T4 has a longer shelf life than T3. It will last longer in your body. T3 is the usable form of thyroid hormone. T4 is not. The thyroid makes T4. The T4 goes to the liver to be converted into T3. And that is part of cholesterol metabolism to make your human body up the

temperature, your thyroid function. So when your liver is fatigued, your cholesterol metabolism is wrecked, and not helped by Stanton’s drugs, your thyroid function decreases. So your metabolism decreases and weight gain becomes inevitable. You can’t help it.


And this is where I start to pound the idea is like, standalone weight loss is never going to work. You have to address functionality in your human body. That will make you lose weight as a side effect, for the most part.



01:26:35 Ashley James: I love it. I love it weight loss becomes a side effect of better health.



01:26:39 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yes. Better liver function, better thyroid function. Because your liver has to help the thyroid regulates body temperature. So any person listening, if you check your body temp and it’s way under 98, you got some work to do. That’s  a good place to start. That’s a good starting point to say, “All right. It’s time for me to make some changes.” Because you need your body temp to – you need your body temperature to be where it’s supposed to be to burn calories at rest, which is the most abundant form of calorie usage of the day. Your exercise only counts for like 10 to 20% of your calorie usage. So you need to use it through normal metabolic function.



01:27:24 Ashley James: That sounds similar to Dr. Wilson. I had him on the show. He figures out if someone’s having thyroid problems by having them take their temperature consistently throughout the day for a few days. And if they’re under the norm, then – their thyroid problem might not even show up on blood work because he talks about how it might be the receptors. That the thyroid is working but that their thyroid receptors are off and so he’s looking at temperature to see what’s going on. And if our the temperature is low, then that’s a sign that something – somewhere in the undercurrent system, whether it be the receptors or up in the thyroid or up in the pituitary – hypothalamus pituitary access somewhere along the way, there’s something going on.

But you’re saying, we need to look at what’s coming in our body three times a day, which is the food we’re eating. And we need to look at the liver because the liver is compromised drastically because of our diet. And most people are on some form of medication or have been on medications that if the liver is compromised then we’re not digesting, we’re not detoxifying, we’re not metabolizing. It’s just everything gets clogged up in the body. And if we can’t get rid of the toxins, it gets stored in the fat cells.



01:28:49 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. And then we got more problems for the thyroid gland. And which another reason – I mean, more reasons that’s becoming such mainstream epidemic of low thyroid function is toxicity, as you just mentioned, is huge. So the thyroid gland, it makes two hormones, like I said. Those hormones are consisting of two amino acids, iodine and tyrosine. These two things come from your food. They have to come from your food. Iodized table salt is what the medical system designed back in the 60s to prevent goiter. I wouldn’t [inaudible 01:29:27] but there was goiters everywhere and they put iodine in a table salt and the goiters went away. That’s important. That’s how important iodine is. If you’re iodine deficient, your thyroid will become distressed. We don’t eat enough fish or seafood, where iodine is naturally coming from. Tyrosine comes from green leafy vegetables and animal meats. We don’t eat enough of those and our digestive systems aren’t able to break them down when we do anymore. So you’re deficient in tyrosine as well.

You can’t make a thyroid hormone without the building blocks. So there’s a major problem we have. More importantly, iodine is halogens. There’s other halogens on the periodic table. If you’re familiar, there’s fluorine, there’s iodine, there’s bromine, and there’s chlorine. Well, chlorine is in our drinking water. That’s bad. Because iodine and the other halogens will block the uptake of iodine. They’re like all brothers and sisters fighting. So if you’re toxic in chlorine, you won’t be able to uptake as much iodine as you would like to. So chlorinated water is bad to drink. Also bleached wheat flour, white bread is bleached. That’s also toxic for your thyroid gland.

Fluorine, which is found in Teflon, which is why it’s bad to eat scratched Teflon, or things cooked in a scratched Teflon pan.


01:30:55 Ashley James: Let’s just agree that any nonstick Teflon surface is bad for us no matter what. Because you can’t guarantee that you’re not going to scratch it. And the off gas – when you would have heat them it off gases and that’s dangerous.



01:31:09 Dr. Trent Mozingo: There’s a great documentary called, The Devil We All Know. It was on Netflix. And it goes into – I think it’s 3M is the company that was creating nonstick stuff. And they were pumping the waste into the rivers. And it’s unbelievable how many people are affected. It went all the way – they put so much in the rivers it back fed up river into the Ohio and all the way down the Ohio River Valley. And as I watched this, I thought, “Well, fluorine flooring is terrible for your thyroid gland.” Everyone in the Ohio River Valley – I think, lymphoma is another major problem from fluorine.

There’s like lawsuits up and down the Ohio River Valley of people dying from liver disease, liver – no. I’m sorry – thyroid disease, thyroid cancer, and lymphoma from this fluorine being pumped in. It’s a great documentary I suggest everyone watch that.

And then we also have bromine which is in flame retardants which is also on stain resistant stuff.



01:32:11 Ashley James: So you’re getting – yeah. You’re getting the children’s clothing that’s stain resistant. And their winter clothing is covered in it.



01:32:19 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Toxic for the thyroid gland.



01:32:19 Ashley James: Oh my gosh. And then their mattresses are covered in – flame retardant mattresses. Your carpeting has it. Your coat has it. That’s why when they do testing, they find that the air quality in your home or in your office is ten times more toxic than if you live downtown. Imagine the pollution of living downtown in whatever major city. That pollution is actually fresher air and better for you. Someone living homeless is breathing better air than you are in your home. Because we’re breathing in the flame retardants and all the off gassing.



01:32:58 Dr. Trent Mozingo: It’s on automotive seats. So every road trip, you pound that stuff in your body. And worse off, it’s vital for infants in neural development. Thyroid function is. So we’re putting flame retardant clothes or stain retardant clothes and these kids and its destructive to their thyroid gland, which is an important factor in neural development. It’s huge. Everything is so related to our health. And we are just waiting to go to the doctor and figure out what med we can take. You know, it’s crazy.



01:33:31 Ashley James: I love that you’re pointing out these different things and not only are in our food but in our air that bind to the receptors. So they’re invasive. They’re something invasive that is clogging up the receptors in our cells. So the cells cannot receive the T3 –  the healthy thyroid hormone that it needs to receive. And thyroid affects all the cells. It’s not just one or two things. I mean, it’s affecting everything. It’s telling the whole body what to do in terms of metabolism –



01:34:06 Dr. Trent Mozingo: It’s like your body’s thermostat. It’s your entire body’s thermostat to run your temp. It what it does.



01:34:12 Ashley James: Another thing is that 25% of our TR is converted in the gut. So if you have dysbiosis and you’ve been on antibiotics and you have poor gut health, you’re not converting your T3 enough. Now you’re, 25% less T3. And then also your serotonin, which is converted in the gut. So we see that people have depression and they have mental health issues. That the mental health issues are sexually symptoms. So maybe they get a diagnosis of bipolar or depression, but they’re actually symptoms of a physical root cause.



01:34:54 Dr. Trent Mozingo: And it’s the same thing. I mean, what causes the dysbiosis? What causes poor normal flora is the same thing. It’s poor diet choices which wreak havoc on the digestive tract, which jacks up the small intestine, and allows it to start having a bad bacteria overgrowth, and then it shoots on down. CBOE, there’s a huge study, everyone’s talking about CBOE is correlated with fibromyalgia. And I can’t explain to these people, no. The CBOE is not causing fibromyalgia. What’s causing CBOE is the same cause of fibromyalgia. It’s we’re eating poor  foods and we are vitamin deficient. More importantly, for fibromyalgia, is B2 and B3. Those are what are tasked in the – I think it’s the pyruvate chain – to take lactic acid out of the muscles.

And if you can’t do that, you basically have muscle soreness all the time. And if you’re deficient, you can’t do that. So the fibromyalgia epidemic is basically after a workout muscle soreness, they’re stuck with that.



01:35:54 Ashley James: Right. Because their body is not converting the lactic acid.



01:35:56 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Back. Yes. It’s not coming out of the muscles. Sure. So that’s the first major principles of the book is the digestive system matters, the liver is huge, and if it’s wrong, your thyroid gland goes wrong. But then it goes in to tie into stress and the adrenal glands. Because stress sends out cortisol, which also goes to liver and also shuts off thyroid function.

So if you’re stressed, your metabolism slows down. People that are stressed all day at their job, have a slower metabolism and they can’t help it.



01:36:31 Ashley James: I love learning this. It really freaked me out that when we are in stress mode and it’s healthy to have a good stress response. Because if there’s, all of a sudden, a boulder on the highway, I want my freaking adrenaline to go up. I want to be able to maneuver in a split second. I want to be able to look around, put on my signal, and safely avoid that boulder. But then I want to just, like, chill and my body goes back into the parasympathetic nervous system response of rest and digest. And it’s done. So I want to be able to jump into stress mode to survive and then come back into relax and healing mode as often as possible. Coming back and staying in healing mode as often as possible as long as possible.

But what’s interesting is that when we have cortisol, when cortisol goes up, which is like we say adrenaline. When cortisol goes up, when the stress hormone goes up, it tells the pancreas to produce less insulin to drive blood sugar up and keep it elevated to ensure that muscles –  to run away from the – muscles have this energy. And now we have prolonged high blood sugar, which causes body wide systemic inflammation and damage to all the cells. So just by having a stress response – having too much stress response, basically living in stress mode, we’re causing damage to every cell in the body.

That’s just amazing how – now, it would work if we were living in the woods and chilling out and only in stress mode when we had to run away from a bear once in a while. That would work because I want to be able to like outrun that bear. So I want my pancreas to do that. To produce less insulin, to artificially keep the blood sugar high,  to be able to keep the nutrients so that my arms and legs don’t run out of sugar so I can outrun the bear. So we want to outrun the bear and survive to live another day. So it’s okay that in those two minutes of running and climbing a tree or whatever I gotta do to get away from that bear or fight it that I am able to shut off every other process in my body that isn’t essential to surviving the next two minutes. But we live in that state constantly. So we’re actually damaging our body constantly because we’re not in a healing mode. We’re in a fight or flight mode. I mean, our body is really intelligent. But we’re the ones that are driving the bus. So we’re making the decisions that keep us in that fight or flight response. And then of course, the foods we eat are then triggering stress response as well.

I know it’s a little bit doom and gloom what we’ve been talking about. But I want the listeners to know there’s this beautiful sort of light at the end of the tunnel or beautiful –  it’s like the light that – the rays of light are parting the clouds. The fact that you are in control is just the hope that we want to give you and let you know that yes, there’s toxins in all the materials in our house that we need to really be aware of. The cleaning formulas, off gas, even what’s underneath our sink right now is off gassing is creating toxins in our environment. But we have the ability to control it so we can get a healthy mattress. Or we can choose furniture that doesn’t have flame retardants. And we can choose natural cleaning products. So we can take active steps, just baby steps, one at a time to make sure the air in our house is clean. The water that we’re drinking. Maybe get a Berkey or get a reverse osmosis. Get something that’s making sure the water is clean. And then choosing organic food as much as possible. Choosing whole foods as much as possible.

And now we’re going to get into food next because I want to know what your take is on what a healing and a healthy diet is. But the fact that you have control. And no matter what your budget is, there are lots of home remedies on YouTube. Learn how to make your own cleaners that are really effective, that are nontoxic. You can save money. I can’t believe how much money I’ve actually saved eating a whole foods plant based diet that’s organic. So there’s a way to save money and do this as well. There’s so many things you can do. Just take the baby steps. And every time you make a better choice, you know you’re going in the right direction for your liver, for your thyroid, for your gut. Just baby steps everyday. Take the right step every day to build back a healthy body.

So yeah, there’s a lot of dangers out there. And a lot of things that – we could focus on the negative and the fear mongering. But I want to leave listeners empowered and knowing that they’re in control. And ultimately, they’re going to create a healthier life because of the things they’re learning from you today. So a lot of my listeners have dysbiosis and have shared with me that they have symptoms of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.

And it then becomes this question like, do they get on the FODMAPS diet or the GAPS diet or some kind of diet to starve the bad bacteria. Or do they really just get on some herbs and kind of like nuclear bomb the bad and the good bacteria. Wipe them out with olive leaf extract or whatever and all those different herbs and then rebuild. What’s your take on how someone can come back from dysbiosis?



01:42:06 Dr. Trent Mozingo: So my system, what I focus on is less of the large intestine, more of small intestine function. But yeah, so there’s things that help combat those. I’m not an herbalist. I am not good with those. For me, you need to go to a specialist. You need to go to a Naturopath or someone that they work with herbs all the time. Because they can be pretty anecdotal. They can pack a lot of punch. So doing that correctly is pretty important in my opinion.

But starving the bacteria, it’s not hard to do. The bad bacteria thrives on sugar. So first cut that out. That’s number one, any liquid calories cut that out. You’re going to help a bunch in that regard. Green leafy vegetables are tough to digest for the people that have digestive distress. And it takes time to get back.

Through my system, I let everyone know that their health status – their current health status is not forever. Your health is constantly on a sliding scale. Every single thing, every single choice, every meal, every day a stress or day of joy, it slides that up and down on a scale of zero to 100. That’s how my brain works. Say you fill up my long quiz – it’s on my website – and it tells you how healthy you are on a scale of zero to 100 based on symptoms alone. So you get 65%. That’s not terrible. It’s not great. But I want people to know that that’s where they’re at right now. And every positive choice that you make, whether it’s clean eating or going for a run or picking up a new hobby at the community center, anything you do to make you a positive shift in your health, you’re going to slide up that scale. You’re going to feel less symptoms. You’re going to feel better overall, which should be everyone’s goal. More energy, feeling better.

So that’s a great point that you make, there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you make more good choices than bad, you’re going to slide in a positive shift on your health status. And that is what I teach everyone. Is they are control of every choice they make. I can explain to them what happens when they make the wrong ones. And I can also explain to them the beauty of making the right ones, the right choices, the right nutritional changes.



01:44:43 Ashley James: So those are good for people who have the dysbiosis. What about people that just really want to eat healthy and want to just make sure that what they’re doing is optimal for longevity. Like you growing up, hardly ever get sick. Obviously, you never needed a flu shot growing up. You hardly ever got sick. You just went to bed when the sun went down and woke up with the sun. And your family made food and lived on the farm .And you knew exactly what was going on. You’re playing going into feed your cells.



01:45:18 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Sure. It starts with your mentality. Two, you have to have a goal, a plan. And that’s another great thought for anyone that’s trying to do nutritional changes is plan your food. Don’t wake up in the morning not knowing what you’re going to eat that day. Because that often pushes us into that frenzy and we make poor choices. So planning your meal plan for the week is pretty important. And also going to the grocery store and buying your food instead of just saying, “Oh, I’ll just grab something for lunch tomorrow at the restaurant.” Plan it out. It starts there.

So positive thought process is also vital for anyone’s health. I stay positive all day every day. I never let myself get down. And that fear mongering, like you spoke of, that is the medical systems way. They love to doom people into saying, “I’m diagnosed with this.” Or “I’m diagnosed with that.” You’re in control of any dysfunction in your body. You just got to figure out how to fuel it and get the right advice to go in that direction.



01:46:27 Ashley James: So can you paint the picture of what it looks like for the average American to transition off of the standard American diet and eat a diet that supports their body?



01:46:40 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Okay. So all the research that I’ve done – again the book is called, The Weight Is Over, because there’s a lot of people out there trying to lose weight. That’s the idea but they’re trying to do it in a healthy way too, I’m hoping. So the healthiest way to eat – and if you want to talk about the hormones involved, I can – but intermittent fasting is the healthiest

style of eating. It basically simulates. Back I talked about at the beginning of time, that hunter and gather style. Food is not always available. Food should not always be available for the human body to thrive. It needs to be hungry a long time. That’s where intermittent fasting comes in. There’s several different ways to do it. You can do a 16 hour fast or 18 hour fast or 12 hour fast or 24 hour fast. Figuring that out is on the individual. So when you are fasted, your body will release the human growth hormone, that is your anti-aging hormone. That is why people that eat less calories live longer. There’s studies that show that. It increases longevity.

So whole food intermittent fasting is how our human body is designed to eat. Not chemicals, intermittent fasting. A Snickers once a day is intermittent fasting. Whole Foods after a fast is how we’re designed to eat. I also feel that animal meats are supposed to be eating after exercise. So think about the hunter and gatherer, berries and roughage was always readily relatively available because you could gather a bunch. But a protein source in animal, you had to go hunt it, you had to find it, you had to gather. You had to, basically, run, catch it, shoot it, stab it with a bow, whatever you had to do. So it was vigorous exercise prior to that treat of an animal meat. So I like to only eat my meats after I exercise that day.

the weight is over


01:48:37 Ashley James: So you’re really only eating maybe one meal a day with meat. And you’re not necessarily eating meat every day.



01:48:44 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Eighty percent of our nutrition, in my opinion, should be plant based. Twenty percent animal based.



01:48:50 Ashley James: Right. A few people I’ve had on the show, like The China Study, which is like this big meta analysis. But Dr. Joel Fuhrman says if we can make 10% of our calories being animal products or less, then they see that that creates longevity and less disease.



01:49:16 Dr. Trent Mozingo: It’s true to some regards. But there’s also the Eskimo community that eats nothing but fish and meat. And they live very healthy, low inflammation lives as well.



01:49:27 Ashley James: But they don’t have longevity on their side though. They don’t live to be like 90 or 100 years old. So in terms of disease-free and longevity, because those are the – we could eat the Eskimo diet and will be really low in disease but we won’t live to be 100, basically.



01:49:45 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Okay. Fair. That’s a fair point with that study. But I mean, climate would probably play a role in there too. They’re also cold all the time. That would be difficult.q2

But something that also – I mean the temperatures you’re exposed to plays a pretty big role in your health too. And sunlight and vitamin D and things like that.



01:50:05 Ashley James: Sure. Absolutely. I love my Sunlight and Sauna.



01:50:09 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Absolutely. It’s cleansing. So whole food, 80% nutrition, in my opinion, is vegetable based. If you don’t exercise, you don’t need as much animal fat as well because your muscles don’t need to grow as much. That’s really what animals are for is to support muscle growth.



01:50:28 Ashley James: Interesting. And I’m not here to be controversial at all because I don’t believe in diet dogma. I want a healing diet for people. And what a whole food plant based, no animal diet is going to be really healing for some and not for others at that period in their life. So it’s like you just have to know what your body needs. But it’s a really interesting documentary. You may or may not have seen it, it’s new. It’s just on Netflix now called the Game Changers. The world’s strongest man who has been a strong man his whole life – his whole adult life, he gained 30 pounds of muscle after going vegan. And he has been vegan for 12 years. And he, actually, as a vegan broke the world record carrying 1200 pounds 33 feet. So it’s interesting that it breaks that misconception that we have to eat animal protein to build healthy muscles. But I respect the value in some of the amino acids you’re saying are readily available from those meats after exercise.



01:51:39 Dr. Trent Mozingo: And I discussed in the book, if you can live in a vegan life, you’re going to be low inflammation. But that also doesn’t mean – you can be a vegan and eat nothing but crackers. That’s not –



01:51:49 Ashley James: Or Oreos. Oreos are vegan. And vegan doesn’t mean healthy whole food plant based. No salt, sugar, or oil would definitely mean healthy. 



01:51:58 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yes. There’s a new documentary also called Fat, it contests that a little bit. It’s really good. It’s very informative on children with, I want to say – there’s a study that shows a high – keto diet would help with – I can’t remember the condition the child had but it cured them. So again, every person needs to find that balance for themselves. What makes them feel good? If you don’t feel good eating something, you probably shouldn’t. Pretty simple logic there.

I also studied under there – read the book of Dr. D’Adamo, the Dieting For Blood Type. Pretty interesting stuff. I’m a type A blood type, which means I should be relatively vegetarian based in it. I actually do thrive on a vegetarian based, very minimal animal fats. But I grew up on a beef farm. So that was hard for me to give up. That’s all I knew. So I can I can only eat steak once a week, usually. It’s the time I’ll eat an animal or – excuse me – a red meat.

But chicken, fish, I digest pretty well and it feels pretty good. And I feel pretty healthy with that. But yeah, it’s 80% plant based for me. But there’s some people that are different. And you got to figure that out.



01:53:19 Ashley James: So I was looking at our genetics. Genetics don’t – it doesn’t mean that we’re helpless because we have genetics. Because some people say, “Oh, the reason why [inaudible 01:53:30] is genetic.” Or the reason why you have – you know, eczema is genetic. It’s the gun but it doesn’t pull the trigger. Your body is going to respond to nutrient deficiency in a predictable way. You can look at if your entire family is vitamin D deficient or your entire family is calcium deficient or EFA deficient, your entire family kind of develops this set of diseases because that’s like the weak links in your genetics. Versus another family who develops a different set of illnesses with a deficiency or with different stressors. But it doesn’t pull the trigger. So that means we have to know our genetics so that we know how to prevent it by eating for health.

I had Mariel Hemingway on the show, who’s the granddaughter of Ernest Hemingway. And she’s had seven suicides in their family, including, of course, the famous American author, Ernest Hemingway. So growing up, it was her – from a very young age, it was her motivation to constantly look at how could she make her entire lifestyle be about physical health and mental health. So she journaled and went to therapy. Her genetics say that – and mostly everyone in her family has depression or suicide or bipolar or alcoholism or drug addiction. So addiction and mental illness are rampant in her genetics. But that doesn’t mean she’s going to have it. It means she knows that if she’s deficient or if she goes and eats the standard American diet, that that’s her genetic predisposition is to have those problems.

Whereas someone else’s with someone else’s genetic makeup, they might have developed type two diabetes. She would develop suicidal thoughts and depression with the same stressors on the body. So we have to understand that genetics don’t cause it. It doesn’t cause our problems. They are the blueprints. And just like some people are just more muscular than others. And some people can put on more muscle than others. Just genetically, the whole family’s really muscular. And all they have to do is just do light exercise and they’re really muscular versus this other family that’s maybe, better at endurance sports.

So it’s like we see the gifts in our genetics but also see that the gift is that you use your genetics as a motivation. Like, everyone in my family had a heart disease and so I’m going to use that as my motivation to prevent it through following this lifestyle. Especially reading your book, The Weight Is Over, which I think is brilliant. I think it’s beautiful. I think it’s actually really obtainable. Like you said, it was hard for you to really cut back on red meat or give it up entirely. A lot of people don’t want to give up their meat. And I was one of those people. My husband went vegan overnight. I had a guest on the show and she said a few key things and he said, “I am never eating meat again.” And he was the guy who ate nothing but meat. To get him to eat a vegetable was ridiculously hard. And then he just overnight said, “You know what? I just heard enough. I’m never eating meat again.” And he loves it. He loves not eating meat. He loves legumes and beans and nuts and seeds and vegetables and fruit. And he thrives on it. And he’s so happy. He’s happier. He’s calmer in his own body. He’s just a happier person. You just notice he’s happier.

I like that you said we really need to be science based because we can all be on, like, the cheese cracker diet or the coffee and cigarette diet. And it’s like you know what? Feeling good – there’s two kinds of feel goods You said we should always feel good on our diet. You know what? You can feel really good on a McDonald’s diet. You can feel really good in the moment. You can be jacked up on sugar. Because it’s fun. It’s fun to eat that way in the moment. You can feel good but do you feel good the next day? Do you feel good waking up in the morning? Do you feel good going to bed at night?

So I would say that, does your diet make you feel good even three days after eating that food? And instead of the feel good in the moment, it’s like, do you feel good all the time? And do you have less inflammation and better digestion? Is your health improving? If your diet is improving and building upon your health, then good. But I love that you said, have 80% of your diet be plant based because we need to get the fiber and vitamins and minerals. We just can’t get that from eating the standard American diet.



01:59:03 Dr. Trent Mozingo: No. Nothing processed is going to have it. And if it has any vitamins, it’s been synthesized and put back into the – synthetic vitamins are just pumping into the junk food. So it doesn’t really count anyway. Vitamins from plants, fruits, and vegetables it runs the entire human body. You have to have them.



01:59:27 Ashley James: What did you eat for breakfast this morning?



01:59:30 Dr. Trent Mozingo: I usually do a smoothie in the morning. Spinach, typically carrots, some strawberries. I use a protein powder from a company that I use a standard process. It’s pretty clean protein powder. And I blend that up with water. It’s not very delicious.



01:59:48 Ashley James: It’s not?



01:59:51 Dr. Trent Mozingo: No. No. But I can eat anything. So it’s not really too big of a deal for me. Once you start getting to that eat for health – but then there’s also days when if you think that you have to eat super healthy all the time, it will make you crazy. So there’s a cheat day every once in a while too. But I eat very healthy 90% of my time.



02:00:09 Ashley James: If you could figure out how to make your cheat meals actually healthy, like I’m – oh man. I have made some really cool desserts. Sweet potatoes, bake some sweet potatoes and then put them in a food processor with raw cacao powder. And if you need, you can add some dates or you can add some date syrup or just a little stevia. But oftentimes the sweet potatoes are sweet enough. And it’s like chocolate. It’s a chocolate pudding and my four year old loves it. And I’m just laughing because I’m feeding them healthy food.

And then another one is just making – you can take avocado and blend it with the raw cacao powder. And that makes a delicious mousse. And then the third, I’m, of course, just going on basically it’s like making mousse with chocolate. But that’s my thing. That’s what satisfies me.

You can also do it with tofu. You can take silken tofu and blend it with raw cacao powder and some stevia or some maple syrup, if you want. If you’re okay with that with a little bit of sugar. Oh my gosh, the kids love it. It tastes amazing. So yeah, there’s things that you can do and you can take sweet potato and black beans and mix them with stevia or maple syrup or whatever sweetener. I prefer stevia. You can do dates. Mix it with some raw cacao powder and bake it and it becomes like brownies.



02:01:38 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yeah. I’m not very adventurous in my food. I stick a bunch of vegetables on a plate and I put some fruit on top of it to make it a little bit better and I eat it. I am the most boring cook in the world.

Photo by Brandless on Unsplash


02:01:52 Ashley James: I love getting creative in the kitchen. But I love to fake cheat. So it’s still healthy food. I still feel good the next day. But once in a while, I get that feeling like I cheated. But it’s not cheating at all. My friend, Naomi, makes the most amazing – she makes a cashew cream and then we dip fruit into it or vegetables into it and it tastes like it’s made from heavy whipping cream but it’s made from cashews and it’s amazing. Oh yeah, so good. And the kids love it. And then they’re like eating more fruit. Not like you need to get the kids to eat fruit. But it is really awesome.

So yeah, there’s some fun ways to still be whole food plant based or still be – eat a whole foods diet. That is fun. So that’s the thing. That’s what I love to look for is, how can I make this enjoyable for the family? But you’re right, most of the time I eat – like my plate is just a bunch of vegetables and I’m happy with that. But once in a while your brain just really wants to break. When we go to the movies, I always pack food to go into the movies because it smells so good at the movie theater. You want to just have their canola oil, GMO canola oil covered popcorn. And then you’re eating glyphosate. And then the next day, I can feel it. I can feel the inflammation from all the junk food eating at the movies. So we pack in. I’ve never had a problem, by the way. I never ever had a problem bringing my own food into the movie theater and my own beverages. I just bring a big thing of water.

But we bake some chickpeas. So you’ve cooked them. They’re already cooked. And then you bake them with seasoning, like Mexican seasoning or whatever. And so they’re dry, but you pop them in your mouth like their popcorn. And it’s so much fun. It’s so easy. And then I usually do cut up vegetables and some kind of hummus or just a bunch of cut up vegetables. You can cut up zucchini, so that’s carrot –  so it’s like crackers. And then you can make little sandwiches, like zucchini sandwiches like the little cracker sandwiches with some hummus.  So there’s like fun things that you can do that you still feel like you’re getting snack food but it’s whole foods. And the best thing is the next day when you wake up in the morning, you jump out of bed and you feel like every cell in your body is singing. You just feel like you’re on top of the world because you just nourished every cell in your body. And instead of creating inflammation and disease.



02:04:18 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Yeah. That’s a powerful thing. It really is.



02:04:23 Ashley James: Since coming out with your book, and obviously, you’ve had your clients read it, and you’re promoting it, and you’re getting great feedback. Can you share some stories of success of people that have read your book and implemented your program?



02:04:38 Dr. Trent Mozingo: For me, I track for patients. I actually make patients track everything on their own. Giving themselves the responsibility back. I want them to understand what their weight which way it’s moving, how many bowel movements they’re having a day, what are the consistency of their bowel movements. And those that are really needing a lot of help, I make them check their blood sugar every day. I think the funniest thing to fix is probably IBS.



02:05:05 Ashley James: Yeah. No kidding. Because they’re really suffering.



02:05:08 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Everyday those patients are in distress. They don’t know when it’s going to come. But they know they better have a restroom very close. And to hear them tell me, “I no longer have to stress. I know in the mornings I wake up, I’m going to have a nice healthy bowel movement.” That, in my opinion, is a life changer for these patients. Changing someone’s blood sugar is important, health wise. But it doesn’t change. They’re just overall daily life, like removing that digestive hysteria. And it goes away pretty quick. Like you said, if you organize your food and you get your body rejuvenated and your digestive system healed, it works pretty quick. And helping people lose weight, it’s always fun. But that real stress relief is what I like.



02:06:02  Ashley James: I love it. I love it. Do you have any homework you like to give the listeners today?



02:06:08 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Homework? That’s good. I think I would tell a patient or a person or a listener – I don’t know if they’re doing it yet – but meal planning is the most important thing. And it sounds like if you have recipes on your Facebook to go there and find them because they sound delicious. And plan to put some of those in there. But I think that the most important homework is try to do as much research about what food does, what vitamins are, where they come from, and how they integrate and interact inside your body is pretty important as far as learning how to fix yourself is first learning how your body works. And that education is valuable for family, for your kids, for everyone.


02:07:02 Ashley James: Some people aren’t motivated to themselves but they’ll do it for their kids.



02:07:07 Dr. Trent Mozingo:  And they should.



02:07:08 Ashley James: Our kids are not going to do it. We say they’re going to do what we do. We have to be the example of health for them. And for moms, we often will put our health last. We’ll shovel food in our mouth in between like standing up by the sink. In between feeding one kid and feeding another and getting them better ready for bed. It’s just the standing over the sink shoveling food into our mouth is not dinner. And it’s not a meal. And it’s not even a snack. You’re not even digesting and absorbing that food because you’re still in stress mode. We need to carve out time for ourselves. It is that story of putting the oxygen mask on ourselves first. It is not self-indulgent. It is necessary. If you love –  of course you love your children. But if you want to be here long term because raising children and helping your family is a marathon, not a sprint, then we need to do the self-care everyday. We need to do self-care.

And it’s not self-indulgent, it’s not egotistical. It is needed. That taking care of you is taking care of your family. Because if you’re down for the count, no one’s getting fed. And I saw that in my mom, she ran herself ragged and she was bedridden and sick with the flu, because she wouldn’t even take care of herself. And then she got Candida because her doctor put her on months and months of antibiotics because she wasn’t willing to just sit down and relax. And that’s what led us to –  when I was six – my mom took a Naturopath that actually was Dr. D’Adamo, the writer Your Blood Type Diet. He was my Naturopath when I was six. And I had this entire shift where he said, “You’re O blood type, you’re allergic to wheat, yeast, milk, and sugar. Get it out of your life.” And so we went home and my mom threw it all out. And I grew up on soy milk. And from the age between ages six and 13, I had zero illness, I had full health and vitality. And then I rebelled. I was 13. I was pissed off at the world and my parents. And I ate all the Halloween candy. And I went to a new school with the cafeteria and I just started eating all the cafeteria food. And all it took was one meal a day, that lunch, eating that crappy, crappy cafeteria food.

I gave myself disease b the time I was to 20. Basically, I ate healthy breakfast at home. I ate healthy dinner. But that lunch every day, I gave myself lifestyle and diet – diseases caused by diet. But then I didn’t have the wherewithal. My brain was full of junk and brain fog. And it took me my entire 20s of suffering to turn it around. So by the time I was 26 or – sorry – 28 is when I went – I had that wake up call and started to shop in the perimeter of the grocery store. And now I’m almost 40. So I had that sort of like ill health in my early years. Then many years of health following exactly what you teach. And then I went back to eating the way everyone else eats but only one third of the time. So we can’t just eat a healthy breakfast and a healthy dinner and go out to McDonald’s. I always pick on McDonald’s. But go out to some restaurant one meal a day and think we’re building our body healthfully. It has to be every meal to be able to build health.



02:10:46 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Stay focused, that’s for sure. Food and mentality too. That’s also just important having a positive outlook, positive thoughts, positive people around you with the same ideas and plans.



02:11:00 Ashley James: Brilliant. Beautiful. I know we’ve covered so much. Is there anything left unsaid? Anything you want to make sure that you let the listener know to wrap up today’s interview?



02:11:14 Dr. Trent Mozingo: I think just make sure they know they’re in control of their health. Not their doctor. Not their personal trainer. No one. It’s on them to really take control.



02:11:23 Ashley James: Awesome. So the listeners who get your book, of course, the links are going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. The Weight Is Over book by Dr. Dr. Trent Mozingo. I love your last name. We’re all going to remember that name. Mozingo. Now, your website is new-startsolution.com. That website and the link to your book is going to be in the show notes for today’s podcast. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show today. And you’re welcome back. I bet we could talk about a few more fun topics.



02:11:54 Dr. Trent Mozingo: I think we could talk forever it sounds like. That’s great.



02:11:57 Ashley James: That would be wonderful. I’d love to have you back. Thank you so much. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show today.



02:12:03 Dr. Trent Mozingo: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.



02:12:05 Outro: Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition? And how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity? Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business, support people in their success? Do you love helping people?

You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach. I highly recommend checking out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. I just spent the last year in their health coaching certification program. And it really blew me away. It was so amazing. I learned over 100 dietary theories. I learned all about nutrition. But from a standpoint of how we can help people to shift their life and shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health.

I definitely recommend that you check them out. You can Google Institute for Integrative Nutrition or IIN and give them a call. Or you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training. So check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in. Be sure to mention my name, Ashley James, and the Learn True Health Podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible. I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program. And I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information.

We need more health coaches. In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field. So many health coaches are getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic offices, doctors offices. You can work in hospitals. You can work online through Skype and help people around the world. You can become an author. You can go into the school system and help your local schools shift their programs to help children to be healthier. You can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success in their health goals.

There’s so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach. So check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Mention my name. Get the best deal. Give them a call and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you. Classes are starting soon.  The next round of classes are starting at the end of the month. So you’re going to want to call them now and check it out. And if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.

Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That’s takeyoursupplements.com. Takeyoursupplements.com. That’s takeyoursupplements.com. Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.


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Eliot Marshall And Ashley James


  • You’re not alone. Community plays an important role in helping people with anxiety or depression to get better. Nobody ever has to be alone.
  • You’re not a victim of your circumstances. You can’t control your circumstances. You don’t have control over others.
  • It’s okay to fail. We learn the best through failing. Nobody learns from success.
  • Give even through the worst times, it’s when you have to give the most because what comes back to you is going to be so much better than what you give.
  • Don’t die for your beliefs. You have to be willing to be wrong. Be willing to change your mind because we keep on learning.



In this episode, Eliot Marshall shares with us ways on how he deals with his anxiety. He tells us martial arts has helped him to stay calm in the very worst moments of his life and how teaching martial arts while having anxiety saved his life by giving the most of what he could for his students.


[0:00] Intro: Hello true health seeker and welcome to another episode of Learn True Health podcast.

Today we have a wonderful guest. You are going to love Eliot Marshall. He’s such a genuine soul with a beautiful voice and I just love his heart. I know you will love his stories and his passion and compassion today listening to this wonderful interview. Interestingly enough, he asked me, I asked him to give us some homework and he asked me for some homework. So, I want to make sure that you know about these three resources that I shared with him.

One is for mediation, I know it’s a really big buzzword and we can just break it down and make it really simple. So many people find that meditation is helpful to them. So if you want to experience the benefits of meditation but you don’t know where to start, I recommend a free resource. Someone I’ve had on the show before who’s actually a really close friend of mine, his name is Forrest Knutson. You can find him on YouTube by searching Forrest Knutson. His website is thatyogiguy. He teaches. He’s made so many great videos and he teaches how to meditate in a very easy way. He utilizes neurofeedback and neuroscience. So he’s all about the science around what happens to the brain when we quiet the mind and also what happens to the nervous system taking us out of the stress response, which is very helpful if we’re looking to decrease the physical effects of anxiety and also decrease anxiety itself. So I recommend that as a resource.

The next thing I really recommend for anyone who’s experiencing problems with sleep or problems with anxiety or panic attacks is soaking in magnesium. If you’re a first-time listener, I have several interviews about this talking about the science behind magnesium. You can go to my website learntruehealth.com, type in magnesium and listen to my episodes about the magnesium soak. We actually absorb grams of magnesium when we do this soak. It is through livingthegoodlifenaturally.com and we were given a coupon code LTH, as in Learn True Health, to receive the listener discount. So go to livingthegoodlifenaturally.com, type in the coupon code LTH and get the jug of magnesium soak. Listen to the episode first so you understand all the benefits and how to soak in it. Our body actually absorbs grams of this magnesium and people, we have hundreds of listeners shared that they have better sleep, significantly less anxiety and that they have a greater sense of well-being. It really does make a difference especially when we’re magnesium deficient.

The third I recommend, I teach an entire course, it’s an entire month-long course, on eliminating anxiety and all the neurolinguistic programming tools that will allow you and empower you to no longer have anxiety. You can go to my website learntruehealth.com and in the menu click on in the Anxiety there. You’ll see more information about it. I really recommend my course for anyone who wants to significantly reduce stress, anxiety, panic attacks, worry or if you just are really interested in personal growth and you want more tools on your tool belt. It is a fantastic course. I make it affordable for everyone to be able to learn these tools in such a way that it will empower them.

So those are my three recommendations for people who want to decrease stress and anxiety in their life. Check those out. Enjoy today’s show. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you for sharing this episode with those you care about especially those who you know have some issues with anxiety, with worry, with depression. We can get together as a community and support each other. That’s what we need to do. No man is an island. We need to get together and support each other and do that by sharing episodes that’ll help each other and sharing what has helped us. Letting our friends and family know that we’re struggling too and we’re there for them. The more that we put down our guard and be vulnerable with each other and we share with each other that we care for one another, the more we can make a difference in this world. Recently, data from the CDC that was published shows that the suicide rate for generation z, this is the generation between the ages of 10 and 24 years old, has increased by 56% percent between the years 2007 and 2017. Suicide is now the second leading cause of death for generation z. This is a major epidemic. We need to do something right now. The only way we can make differences as individuals. So as individuals, all of us together can support each other by sharing this episode with those we care about and using the tools that Eliot teaches today. Just being there for each other, just reaching out to those we love and letting them know that we’re a should that they have and letting them know that we want to hear them and listen to them and that they’re heard. Also letting them know that we’re struggling too. Just that amount of communication could save someone’s life. So that’s why I’m so honored to be able to publish this episode today because my hope is that we can spread this message and turn this ripple into a tidal wave and help as many people as possible to learn true health.

Welcome to the Learn true health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 387.

Photo by Sarah Cervantes on Unsplash


[06:13] Ashley James: I’m so excited for today’s guest. We have with us Eliot Marshall who has an amazing story. What I love is he’s here to teach us how to find our power. As I’ve said on the show before health, a lot of times we look at physical health but health is not always just physical. Our mental and our emotional body and our energetic body all play a role in creating our physical health. We need to be able to create that inner power, that inner motivation, that inner strength, we need to cultivate that so that we can go out and do the things that support our life, our health physically but also our joy in our life. Eliot, it’s such a pleasure to have you here today.


[06:55] Eliot Marshall: Thanks, Ashley. Thanks for having me on. I could not agree with what you said more.


[07:00] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now your website is Eliotmarshall.com. Of course links to everything you do, it’s going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast learntruehealth.com. Eliot, you’ve got two podcasts that you do. You wrote a book. You own six gyms. You’re a professional fighter. It’s just like the list goes on and on and on.


[07:23] Eliot Marshall: I had a massive breakdown four years ago. I had a massive, what I like to call spiritual mental breakdown/spiritual awakening. I wasn’t paying attention to those things that were so important.


[07:36] Ashley James: We’re definitely going to dive in to your story. It sounds like you found your power though.


[07:41] Eliot Marshall: Yes. You know, I’m still gathering it. I don’t believe in ever reaching the top of the mountain.


[07:49] Ashley James: We’re never done, right?


[07:50] Eliot Marshall: We’re never done. The day I stop grinding is the day that they put the dirt on me. That grind might change. I don’t know what it’s going to look like that whenever –


[08:01] Ashley James: Yes. You get to the pearly gates and Jesus is like, “Alright, put you to work.”


[08:09] Eliot Marshall: Whoever it is up there, you know. Whatever it is. I’m never too concerned. I used to be super concerned with it. Now, I’m not concerned with it at all, I believe that we’re experiencing both heaven and hell while we are alive. So, I’m not sure what happens to me after I die. I guess I don’t even really care. I do care about what I do while I’m here on this earth.


[08:39] Ashley James: What a beautiful dichotomy to hold in your mind the idea that we’re going through heaven and hell at the same time. That we can learn and grow and utilize both experiences or both perspectives to help propel us forward and help others as well. I think we find really true joy when we reach out and help others. Our ego drops away. We’re in the now. We’re totally in that moment. You love helping people too. That’s why my podcast is Learn True Health. It’s not like achieve true health and then you’re done. It’s Learn True Health and keep learning and keep learning and keep learning. So, we’re going to learn from you today, Eliot. I’d love for you to start by sharing your story. What happened in your life that lead you to be such a wise soul?


[09:26] Eliot Marshall: I’ll start with I was born to an African-American dad who grew up very, very poor and White-Jewish mother whose parents, my grandparents, survived the concentration camps. So, I had a very interesting upbringing. We lived in this really small town. You know those towns where like they know when the kid’s born that he’s going to be the quarterback of a high school football team and a homecoming king? Like everybody knows that. That’s my town. I didn’t fit in very well. Looking back on it, it worked out great for me. In it, it sucked. So then, I would say grandparents, my mom’s parents had a huge, they had a very huge influence on my life. I saw them three times a week. There was a common thing. That common thing was Hitler will be coming again. I didn’t know that it was difficult. I didn’t know the effects that all of that had on me. It obviously played a role.


[10:45] Ashley James: Did you feel persecuted or ostracized for?


[10:49] Eliot Marshall: Yes. I had no friends. I had two friends my whole growing up, maybe three. That was pretty much the extent of it.


[10:58] Ashley James: That lack of acceptance must have really played into the belief that Hitler was coming back for you as a child growing up. That fear, you didn’t feel accepted by your community. If you’re community is already rejecting you then that fear that the holocaust is going to happen again was really real for you, really palpable.


[11:15] Eliot Marshall: Yes. There whole life was set for it to happen again. When they died, my sister lives in that currently, when my grandmother died at the time we went downstairs, it was 2000 and there was sugar and flour and stuff from 1979. We were ready. We were definitely ready.


[11:42] Ashley James: My aunt was a prepper back in the 70s. Until the day she passed away, she did the same thing. She filled her entire basement with canned goods. I understand that. I didn’t understand at the time but then I started to get. That’s a reality.


[12:02] Eliot Marshall: It’s a reality. Look man. We stole. I remember crawling in farms, because I lived in South Jersey where there’s a lot of farms, at night and going to get cucumbers. We didn’t need to steal. There was no necessity for us to steal. That’s just how they survived, my grandparents, right. Like okay, well let’s go. We didn’t steal massive things. We stole 10 cucumbers, which I’m not condoning it. I’m not saying that this was right or anything like that but that was the mentality. That was the concentration camp mentality. You have to survive. For me, I think it’s kind of what triggered my anxiety because I was always like, “Well man, what am I surviving from? It seems pretty good. I’m never hungry. Why should we be scared?” It triggered this from my life, like this. Like what’s coming down the pipe. Then it came a couple of times as an older. The first time I was 19 years old. It was pretty bad. The second time I was 21 and it was bad.


[13:22] Ashley James: When you say it was bad, were these events or were these panic attacks?


[13:26] Eliot Marshall: Yes. Acute anxiety episodes that lasted for about six to nine months. Then, up until this point you’ll never know what’s coming. Up until this point, my worst one was in 2016. It was, that was my dance with the devil. That was my dance with the devil.


[13:51] Ashley James: Were they provoked like something happened that triggered it or just out of nowhere, you’re like sitting at home eating dinner and then boom?


[13:58] Eliot Marshall: This last one, in 2016, I just got back from 2 weeks in Maui and my life was perfect. My businesses, I had two at the time, they were successful. I had a great wife. I had a great house. I had two great kids. I’m by no means like a gazillionaire but I didn’t, like if I want something I could do it. We’re not talking like Bugattis and private jets, right. We’re talking like normal everyday people stuff. If I wanted to go out to a nice dinner I wouldn’t even think about like what to save. I’ve none of that going on, nothing. My kids are healthy, my wife’s healthy, everything’s perfect. Literally two weeks in Hawaii, comeback jetlagged and that’s what did it. Just a little jetlag and then I didn’t sleep for five days. Maybe let’s just say somewhere between four and eight hours of sleep in five days.


[14:55] Ashley James: Sounds like it’s related to your stress response.


[14:57] Eliot Marshall: Yes. Probably. I mean at this time when I go back and look at it, I was consumed with looking at the numbers at work. How many members we had. I was consumed.


[15:15] Ashley James: You have a degree in math, right?


[15:17] Eliot Marshall: Yes. I have a degree in math but don’t ask me any hard questions coz I got punched in the head for a living for 10 years. So that’s always part of it, right? I’m like, “Man, is this the CTE?” because I couldn’t tell you how many, I mean concussion every day. I got punched in the head twice a week every week from 2005 until 2011. I’m not talking about punching the head by a five-year-old. I’m talking about punch in the head by 250-260 pound man.


[15:53] Ashley James: Your neurological wiring growing up was this fear that the third world war is about to happen, the holocaust is about to happen again. Then you have like a million concussions. So there might be some little bit of brain injury that you’re healing from.


[16:16] Eliot Marshall: You know, my brain looks good on MRI. Like obviously I’m not stupid. So I was always making sure if things like that. I had a brain MRI, I don’t know two years ago, my brain looks good. The real problems are what you can’t see on an MRI.


Photo by Nik Shuliahin on Unsplash


[16:31] Ashley James: Right, because that’s structural. The structure of the brain isn’t really how the brain works.


[16:36] Eliot Marshall: Like Aaron Hernandez, when he died it was the worst case of CTE that they’d ever seen. A lot of people think the guy’s a terrible human being but I mean how much can we blame him?


[16:50] Ashley James: Right. It’s the same for people who have a mental health condition. You can’t hold something against someone who’s schizophrenic or bipolar. They’re going through something. So, we have to take that into account and hold empathy and forgiveness. So what happened then? So after your last biggest in 2016, your biggest breakdown, how did you recover?


[17:22] Eliot Marshall: I realized that the way out was in.


[17:26] Ashley: I love that.


[17:27] Eliot Marshall: I’m going to try my very best not to sound super conceited here. For my schools, I’m the one that’s made it the farthest. I’ve won almost everything else there is to win. I made it to the UFC, which is like the crown jewel. If there’s a crown jewel for martial arts it’s did you fight in the UFC? I was not a champion but that’s like a marker that most people, almost no one gets to have especially 10 years ago. I’ve competed in everything. I’ve won. So people are like looking at me like, “Okay. That’s the mark.” I was just real honest with people. I was like, “Look, yeah I might be your mark but don’t worry, I struggle too just like you guys. So I’m going to be okay. I have great friends that help me. I have all of the tools necessary to get this done. I just want all of you to know,” and I said this in front of the class one day. I like pulled everyone in right in the middle of my hell. I said, “I want all of you to know that if this is for you too, if this is what’s going on, you’re not alone. You’re not alone. We’ll all get through this together because that’s what we do as a community. We lean on people and we’re strong for ourselves and for others as well.”


[18:59] Ashley James: Did anyone come forward and say-?


[19:02] Eliot Marshall: Yes, a bunch. I’m like a professional therapist now, Ashley.


[19:09] Ashley James: I love that.


[19:11] Eliot Marshall: That’s what got me to write my book and start this podcast that I have. My original podcast called the Gospel of Fire. The book is by the same title. So yes, that’s what got me to do all of it was my, I won’t even say my path to overcoming because I don’t believe in overcoming. I just believe in the moment, right now because this is all we’ve got.


[19:37] Ashley James: You know if more people were to stand up and say to their friends or their community, “I’m going through depression and I want to let you know. Let’s get through this together. If anyone else is going through depression, let’s talk about it or suicidal thoughts or anxiety or fear. If we were to instead of all be locked away in our houses, you know if you look at neighborhoods today –


[20:05] Eliot Marshall: On our cellphones.


[20:05] Ashley James: Right, we’re all locked away on our cellphones.


[20:08] Eliot Marshall: In our houses on our cellphones.


[20:10] Ashley James: Right, right. We’re so isolated. We’ve really created a society in the last generation that’s very isolated. The best thing for mental health is to do it as a community. I did this really amazing interview with this guy who travel around the world to study these techniques that are actually working at helping end addiction and helping end like mental health issues like depression and people who –


[20:44] Eliot Marshall: What’s his name?


[20:47] Ashley James: I will remember.


[20:49] Eliot Marshall: Is it Johann Hari?


[20:50] Ashley James: Yes.


[20:53] Eliot Marshall: I’m trying to get him on my podcast because he wrote those two books are amazing.


[20:57] Ashley James: His books are amazing. Yes, I had Johann on. It’s funny because he was like –


[21:01] Eliot Marshall: So his book the one Lost Connections and that’s about anxiety and depression, right? The other –


[21:07] Ashley James: I had him on the show right as his second book came out. So we talked about both of them.


[21:10] Eliot Marshall: That was Lost Connections.


[21:10] Ashley James: Right, we talked about both of them.


[21:12] Eliot Marshall: I hit him up. He’s writing a third book right now. He’s like, “Give me six months and I’ll do it.”


[21:19] Ashley James: Sweet. Well, he’s a great guest. I’ll vouch for you.


[21:23] Eliot Marshall: Yes. I love his books.


[21:25] Ashley James: He shares his stories.


[21:29] Eliot Marshall: Chasing the Scream because that was the one about addiction. So, Chasing the Scream is about addiction and then Lost Connection was the one about anxiety and depression. My favorite part of that book was the apple. Did you read the book, Lost Connections, did you read it?


[21:44] Ashley James: No. I did the interview.


[21:47] Eliot Marshall: He tells this story where he’s in, I don’t know, Indonesia or somewhere. He gets sick. He eats this apple and he gets sick like really, really sick. They didn’t know that it was the apple yet. So, he’s telling the story and he’s vomiting everywhere. He barely stayed alive. He’s finally in the hospital. He’s like, “Can you please just give me something for this?” They’re like, “No, we can’t because we don’t know what’s wrong yet. We need your nausea so we can help you.” Sometimes, we need our anxiety. I need my anxiety so that it can help me. It can point me in the direction that I need to go to find my power.


[22:29] Ashley James: Yes, because if you keep going down a path, like focusing on what you don’t want to have happen in the future, the anxiety gets worse and worse and worse. So like, okay I’m going down the wrong path. Let me start going down the right path.


[22:40] Eliot Marshall: Or you could drink it away, right?


[22:43] Ashley James: Sorry?


[22:43] Eliot Marshall: We can drink it away with alcohol. We can drug use it away with a whole lot of things, right. Then all we know, I think we both know that what happens is it comes back and it just keeps coming back a little worse and a little worse and a little worse.


[22:59] Ashley James: Yeah. He shared some stories about people who, when they got together as a community to support each other that their depression went down significantly. That even people who were, you know contemplating suicide stop contemplating suicide. The idea that bringing together community to support each other does so much for mental health. Things just simple like volunteering. Doesn’t have to be, it could be any kind of volunteering. It could be any kind of volunteering like volunteering at a cat shelter or a dog shelter or volunteering in a soup kitchen or whatever kind of volunteering. The fact that you, they say that the number one thing if you’re depressed, go volunteer. Be part of a community. People start to care about each other and help each other. That they just show unanimously people have less depression and less suicide. Less of being trapped inside yourself when you do things like get into community and volunteer.


[23:59] Eliot Marshall: That was my whole goal of my book. First one. So I was introduced to this lady. Her name is Erin Weed, she’s amazing. She does public speaking. I thought I was going to do the whole public speaking route. She does this thing called the Dig. She finds one word that describes you. My one word is power. So that’s why Find Your Power. But what we got to, she was like, “Man, I really don’t know if the speaking route is your way yet because 1) you curse a lot. But I think you’re amazing. And your people.” I’ve been pretty good so far. What are we, 20 minute, 30 minutes in and I haven’t done it.


[24:40] Ashley James: You’re doing a really good job. You caught yourself. There is an s word. You almost said it. I was like, smooth.


[24:48] Eliot Marshall: Yes. My wife says this about me, I’m like a fungus. I just grow on people. So, that’s why she was like, “Look, you need to start a podcast so people could get to know you. You need to write this book.” The company, she gave me this company. Man, they charge $25,000. $25,000 to write this book. I’m sitting there thinking. I’m like damn it, $25,000, that’s a lot of cash. How do you get an ROI in $25,000 for a book? Because I got to split with Amazon and this and that, right? I’m not Johann Hari. I’m not a New York Times bestseller already and all this stuff. Then I had to rethink it. I had a moment where I was like, man, what if I write just the most amazing book. What will make it so amazing is that one person will contact me and say that I saved their life. If that happen, if one person just hit me up on I I’d have Instagram or Twitter, wherever and said, “Yo, dude. I was getting ready to check it out and you made me not.” I was like, damn, I’d have to write another one then because a life is for sure worth $25,000.


[26:02] Ashley James: So did you do it with them? Did you spend $25,000?


[26:04] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. I did it. My ROI is ridiculous. Because I had gotten more than one. My ROI has been ridiculous.


[26:14] Ashley James: So you really helped save people with your book.


[26:17] Eliot Marshall: Yeah and like the whole, we found this why in the academies that I own, you know. We had this, it’s just nobody ever has to be alone. I know I teach martial arts. I teach this violent thing. I have UFC fighters. We’re trying to beat each other up. That’s what the goal of the whole thing is on the outside, on the outside. But man, what it really teaches you, what Brazilian jiu-jitsu really[y teaches you. Do you know anything about it?


[26:46] Ashley James: I studied martial arts when I was a teenager and the early 20s.


[26:51] Eliot Marshall: Okay. So, what it does, so Brazilian jiu-jitsu is a grappling art where we submit each other with joint locks. The whole position is controlled. Like a joint manipulation of a major joint like your knee or your elbow and chokes, strangulations. We get to practice at full speed because when you lock my arm out straight I can be like, “Oh man, that thing’s not going to go any straighter.” So I tap. Right? So I’m trusting you with my life and you’re doing the same for me. The choke is the same. The better you get, you get to learn how to like be in this submission holds and kind of deal with like, “So, I’m getting choked and I feel this. This is very uncomfortable but I just have to stay really calm. Because I know that freaking out is not going to get me out. So the calmer I stay right now the better I’ll be able to process how to deal with this arm around my neck. It’s not all the way locked in. Like I could still breathe and blood is still flowing through my brain. I’m okay.” How do I stay okay? But those moments. That’s really hard. It’s super hard. It takes a long time how to stay calm in that moment of being strangled. That’s what martial arts and specifically Brazilian jiu-jitsu is teaching us in my opinion is it teaches us how to stay calm in the very, very worst moments that our life is going to bring on us.


[28:19] Ashley James: Well, because your body perceives a choke hold as a threat. It wants to go into fight or flight to try to save your life. But being in fight or flight shuns the blood away from logic centers of your brain. So now you’re not, hopefully have some kind of muscle going but you really don’t have clarity of mind when you’re in fight or flight.


[28:42] Eliot Marshall: Well, everyone goes into fight or flight in the beginning. If you came into a jiu-jitsu class today, I put my arm around your neck and you’re going to be like, “Oh, God.” You’re going to freak out. Everyone just goes bananas for the first couple of years when they’re getting choked. Then they tap. You go and you start again. That’s the beauty of it though is it goes through like this human lifecycle. Like you’re born, you get to live and fight. That’s the fight and then man you die. You get choked out. Then you get to live again. Then you get to be reborn. You get to try it again. You get to try a little different this time. Like, “Okay, this time I’m going to do this.” You can see whether it works or it doesn’t work. But it’s really safe because you put your partner’s taking care of you. Like I said, his life is in your hands and your life is in hers. So, it doesn’t matter. You build this insane trust with somebody else because you have to do this really hard thing, beating each other up. But you have to do it safely. Because most of my students are not trying to be champions. We have schools littered with somebody who goes to work all day and then has two and a half kids and a white picket fence, right? Like the average American. That’s who we teach. Yeah, we have phenomenal champions as well, but who we teach is, like who we really teach, is you, Ashley. Are you married?


[30:11] Ashley James: Yes.


[30:12] Eliot Marshall: And your husband and your kids. That’s who we teach. You have zero goals of being champion. But for some reason, you keep walking in. You keep doing this really weird thing like Fight Club.


[30:24] Ashley James: You create a community. I loved my martial art family. It was so cool. We’d go out to dinner together after most workouts and hang out and huge amount of bonding. You really, really start to care for these people because you’re right. You’re putting your life in their hands. They’re putting their life in yours. You develop trust really quickly. There’s a great amount of respect. Did you start to notice, like when you dived into this community, that you were getting emotional healing from being part of a community that was so accepting of you and helped you to drop your guard?


[31:08] Eliot Marshall: So, I didn’t notice it until later. You know, I really didn’t notice it until one of my students passed away to be honest with you. He passed away. It was at the end of my stint, of my acute nine months. Let’s say, it was much greater. It was down the road. I didn’t cry yet. I hadn’t cried. I was sad but I didn’t cry. He was poor, his very poor. Their family was poor. They couldn’t afford to like give him a service or anything. So we brought them out to Colorado, because they weren’t from here. We, at the school, we just paid for everything, right. Like plane tickets, we just took care of it. So, I had to say something. I had to give a eulogy. I absolutely lost it standing up there. I was baffling, crying, sobbing buffoon. What I realized was that man, over the last two years that my students saved my life. Because I was like, “Come on man, you got to show up to teach your class. You got to show up. When you go teach that class, it’s got to be the best class possible.” Like every class has to be amazing. That was my goal through the day. That’s how I got through the day. Then just more people showed up for me, more people showed up for me. I was trying to give the most that I could. Just by them coming, they gave me the greatest gift that they could ever give me. So, they saved my life. I didn’t really realize it until like that moment, standing up there. I was sobbing. His mom was there, my students, a bunch of my students. I was a mess. I was a mess. But that’s when I realized that all we have to do is give. If we just give, even in the worst times, even in the hardest times, that’s when you got to give the most. Just give. Give to other people. What comes back to you is going to be so stupidly much better. You can’t, I don’t even know how to explain it. Like I don’t even know how to explain it.


[33:42] Ashley James: Well, you showed up for them. You kept putting, you kept getting up every day, getting out of bed, putting on your clothes. That was your motivation to keep going, right? In the hard times, was making sure that you brought your everything to the lessons that you’re teaching them. But if you didn’t have your students there for you, you weren’t having a reason to live at that point, right?


[34:09] Eliot Marshall: Right, yeah. Look, I had a great wife and kids but like they were like the root of my anxiety. Mine is all around sleep. So, I freak out with the sleep. So I was like, man I’m not going to sleep and then when I don’t sleep I’m going to go crazy. Renee is only going to put up with this for so long and then she’s going to leave me and then she’s going to take the kids. But then I’m going to go more crazy. Then I could just play this circle in my head. It was awful. Like I said, it doesn’t go away. It gets quieter but it doesn’t ever go away from me. So, I couldn’t lean on my family. That sucked, right? Because normally that’s what you do. You lean on your family and I couldn’t do that. Because they were like, the one thing my oldest would do, I think he didn’t understand it. I don’t think he knew at the time. But right when we were tucking them into bed, I would get into bed with him, I would like lay down. Sometimes I’d be like losing it. Maybe he could feel it, he would just like put his hand on my back. That always helped a little. He’s like my mini me, you know. I had to, for the most part, lean on something other than my family, my at home family. I had to really lean on my students. My mom and dad lived and my sister, they lived in New Jersey so I could lean on them a little bit. I wasn’t worried. They weren’t part of the anxiety. A lot of therapy. I go to therapy every week. Still, to this day, every week I go talk to my therapist.

Photo by Tina Bo on Unsplash


[35:56] Ashley James: That is so healthy. I think e most well-adjusted people go to therapy. The old paradigm is, you know, therapy is for crazy people. It’s just like, you know what, therapy is for people who want to be mentally strong. I have a friend who said this. I guess she’s a millennial, she’s like an older millennial. But she said this on Facebook, she said, so she’s a chef. She’s a personal chef in Seattle so she like caters to people. One customer will be paleo, the next one will be vegan, the next one will be raw vegan, the next one’s like I don’t care, I just want to do delicious, the next one’s calorie restricted, the next one’s allergic to garlic. I mean it’s just like the list goes on and on. So, she has to like balance in her mind.


[36:38] Eliot Marshall: I hate this by the way. Starbucks is who did this to us. Okay.


[36:44] Ashley James: She has to balance in her mind all these different diets and really caters to their taste. Maybe one doesn’t like Indian and the other one does. So, she’s really good at that. She has a daughter who’s about four and a wonderful boyfriend. She also has a horrible commute because Seattle has really bad traffic. She really seems like she got her stuff together. She said this on Facebook the other day, “If you think I’ve got my stuff together, I wouldn’t have my stuff together for the three times a week I go to therapy.” She’s like, “There’s nothing wrong with me mentally and we need to break away in society from this idea that we go to therapy when there’s something wrong.” You go to therapy to make sure that you can keep it together. She says that that’s how she maintains an incredibly successful business and she’s an amazing mom, an amazing girlfriend. She’s got everything together because she goes to therapy three times a week. She says she would’ve exploded and probably killed everyone by now if it wasn’t for the fact that she goes to therapy. So I just, I love that. That idea that you find the type of therapy, you find the type of therapist that really jives with you and you do it because it allows you to stay sane.


[37:55] Eliot Marshall: This is how I like to put therapy. This is my best analogy. You brush your teeth every day, twice a day?


[38:01] Ashley James: I’d hope so.


[38:03] Eliot Marshall: Why?


[38:04] Ashley James: So my teeth don’t rot out of my head.


[38:07] Eliot Marshall: Okay. So if you ever get to the point where your teeth are rotting out of your head, is brushing your teeth going to do anything?


[38:12] Ashley James: No. You got to go to the dentist at the point.


[38:14] Eliot Marshall: You have to go take these drastic measures, right? You have to take these drastic measures. You’re in crisis. How about you just brush your teeth every day and I probably could guarantee you that that won’t happen.


[38:26] Ashley James: Right.


[38:27] Eliot Marshall: I go to therapy like I brush my teeth. So I can stay out of crisis.


[38:33] Ashley James: What kind of therapy because there’s so many different kinds? You know what kind you work with?


[38:38] Eliot Marshall: We did a lot of CBT. Now, cognitive behavioral therapy. Now, look for me, I just need a verbal vomit to be honest with you. Because I have a lot of people that lean on me. We have seven schools. We’re about to open our seventh school. They’re all run by my best friends. Every single one of them. I don’t do –


[39:03] Ashley James: To be the boss of your best friends can be kind of stressful.


[39:07] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. So, I’m not really the boss. I’m kind of the boss but we have like a CEO and CFO. We’re charging, we charge. We don’t do this like most martial arts schools. Like every single one of my students knows that if they need something that I’ll be there. I hope they know. If they don’t know, I hope they listen to this podcast and they know that. Well that pressure, that’s a lot of pressure. So I have go talk about that. I have to go get my feelings, how I’m feeling out. I can’t hold it in because I know what happens when I hold it in. When I hold it in, I can just play this loop in my, I caught myself again, I can play this loop in my head. Just go and go and I’ll be, you know. I can start in the North Pole and I’ll end in the South Pole and that is awful.


[40:03] Ashley James: So when you sit down and you just get to verbal vomit all the stuff that’s in your head out, after you get it all out and while you’re talking, because I bet the therapist doesn’t really say much. Do you start to really hear the patterns and hear your own limiting decision and hear. You’re like, “Oh, wow. That’s where I’m coming from. That’s interesting.” You’re practically doing your own therapy.


[40:31] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. I do a lot of my own therapy. But I need her. I can’t do it, all right, I’m sure I could. But I love her and we only talk once a week. We do not, I don’t get coffee with her. Nothing. I don’t even know when birthday is and she probably doesn’t even remember when mine is. That’s perfect. Right? That is absolutely perfect. I don’t want it differently because it will ruin what we have. Sometimes we’ll be going and then she’ll go like, “Oh, that doesn’t make, can you sake that again please?” I’m like, here we go.


[41:10] Ashley James: That’s awesome. So she’s kind of like a coach in a way?


[41:12] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. She’s a coach. She‘s this 70-year-old lady. I don’t want to talk to a dude. If I need to tale to a dude, I’m going to call one of my friends. I tried a duded and it just didn’t work. I was like, man, I’m not telling you anything. No, no. I’ll sit here and do this hour because I’m paying for it but it’s going to be the last time we talk. I just, for some reason, the book that I wrote, I need a lady. They get it out of me the best. I don’t know what it is.


[41:43] Ashley James: Well, as long as they get it out of you. It sounds like one of the key, so far what I’ve derived is, to find your power, involve community and get therapy. Does that sound about right?


[41:58] Eliot Marshall: Yes. That sounds about right. But we’re going to take a hard left turn here if you want. Everything in my life that happens to me is my fault. You can’t be a victim. Extreme ownership. You can’t be a victim. Extreme ownership. Like Jocko Willink book, Extreme Ownership, is amazing. Everything in my life is my fault and then I have it tattooed in my arm in Greek because it was first said in Greek. The impediment of action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way, Marcus Aurelius. The obstacle is the way. So, if it’s hard, amazing.


[42:40] Ashley James: I was in a lot of landmark education classes. Have you ever heard of them?


[42:48] Eliot Marshall: No.


[42:49] Ashley James: They started back in 60s. They called themselves Est and then they transformed and called themselves landmark. There are personal growth and development classes all around the world. That’s one of the first things they focus on is being a cause in your world, being responsible for your world. Not that it’s your fault. So, this beautiful woman, she’s like 6’ tall. Gorgeous African-American, long hair, always wears these amazing suits that just like, she’s always so beautiful. She stood there. I was at a talk, a landmark education talk in Atlanta, Georgia. She stood there in front of hundreds, hundreds of people and she said, “I take responsibility for the Holocaust. I take responsibility for slavery.” People are like, what? This is charged. What are you talking about? She’s like, “Just hold on. If I am responsible for who I am in the matter, then it does not have power over me.” I get to dictate how my life goes. It has no power over me.


[44:06] Eliot Marshall: Nobody has my day, Ashley. It’s mine and nobody else’s. So, I like to listen to a lot of people. One of the people I like to listen to is ET, Eric Thomas, motivational speaker, black guy. He’s like,  “Man, you’re damn right I’m an African-American man in America. You’re damn right there’s racism.’’ He’s like, “My dad left when I was a kid. I didn’t graduate high school and my mom did everything she can but she was a crack addict. So what? So what? It’s on me man. It’s on me. Of course that’s not fair.” Now, on the flip side of that, those of are who are fortunate has to do everything we can to help the less fortunate. So, I play this dichotomy. It takes, I’m glad you do long podcasts because if I just hit one side of, people are like, “Oh man that guy sucks.” It’s your fault then no. It is my job to sprinkle, I’m going to steal on Obama line here, to sprinkle as much luck dust on as many people as I possibly can. However, when I’m talking to that individual person, my job is to be like, “No, this is on you.”


[45:29] Ashley James: You’re not a victim of your circumstances.


[45:30] Eliot Marshall: You’re not a victim of your circumstances. You can’t control your circumstances. The only thing you’ve got is you. If you want to sit here and mope and cry and everything else and it’s not my fault. Man, if it’s not your fault, if it’s someone else’s fault, you’re screwed because you can’t control other people. I can’t get my wife, could you imagine for you to try to be like, you know what’s your husband’s name Ashley?


[45:59] Ashley James: Duffy.


[46:00] Eliot Marshall: Duffy. It’s amazing. I’m going to try to get Duffy to not be mad at me ever. You would either go to the loony bin, right? You would either go to the loony bin or you’re just screwed. How could you possibly do that? Man, what if Duffy wrecked the car, his mom died, something else happen and you come home and you were supposed to clean the kitchen. The day went to crap. You didn’t know. He didn’t know. The kitchen, the house is destroyed. You’re not home. He walks in. He’s mad at you. Could you imagine? Not of that was your control over that day and you’re going to try to control Duffy? Come on. You’re screwed if you want to deal with other people. It’s on you. It’s on you. You’re not a victim.


[46:56] Ashley James: It’s what we do in that moment. So your husband’s angry, it’s what we do in that moment. Do we play the victim? Because that’s not going to solve any problems at all. Do we divert lame? That’s not going to solve any problems at all. But listening and taking ownership and say, “Okay, now what? Now what can we do to solve this problem. Let’s work on it together.”


[47:20] Eliot Marshall: I was going to say, I don’t love my wife for all the good times I have with her. Like man, do you know how many good times, and I’m not talking about sex, you know how many good times I have with so many people? I have so many good times. You love them for the awful ones. Like the three in the morning, both kids vomiting. Like mad at each other. Nobody’s doing what we want to do. Then the morning comes and everyone’s still sitting there. That’s where like the sword is forged, you know. The love is forged in those moments. It’s not forged when you’re out at the best dinner ever and you’re walking holding hands at the beach and madly in love. Man, no way. I mean, sure that’s great, but that’s not when that. The sword is just molded in this hard, hard steel. In my opinion, that’s not when that happens. If you’re single, for all the single people out there right now, man, if you’re dating somebody for a week and they’re like, “Yo, let’s go to Hawaii on this amazing vacation.” You’re going to say, yes but you don’t love them, right? You don’t love them yet. So why do you love people? You love them for the hard times and that they’re there for you, the community, the connection, right? You know. So I have six rules for my kids. This is my second book, the Six Rules of Life for you and your Kids. The last rule, rule number six is we ride or die. If my brother goes down, then I go down. That’s what real love is.

Photo by Priscilla Du Preez on Unsplash


[49:10] Ashley James: So you don’t let tattle tailing in the house I bet? You get your kids to help each other.


[49:16] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. I don’t listen to it, but obviously they’re children. So, it doesn’t affect the decisions that I’m going to make with what happens next. No way. Their job is to love each other more than they love me and their mom. That’s how I want it. Because they’re going to most likely and hopefully outlive both of us. That relationship has to be stronger than the one that they rely on us for. I know, right now, they rely on us for a lot. But they can’t so hard because they have to take care of each other. They do. It’s really amazing. It’s really sweet, you know. My kids were just at a birthday party, a sleepover. My 6-year-old, I have a 9 and a 6-year-old, my 6-year-old it was his first time that he was sleeping at somebody else’s house and it wasn’t the neighbor right across the street. So he thinks the neighbors across the street I mean. So we have this 1950s relationship with them. We don’t knock on each other’s doors like if I need eggs, I don’t ask for eggs. I just walk in the house, go in their refrigerator, grab some eggs. If they’re not home, I have the code to their door. I’ll unlock it and get the eggs. I won’t even have to tell them. It’s vice versa. Everything’s the same. So this was the first sleepover where it wasn’t that family. So basically his second family. He had a little trouble and his brother was there. The way it went down is he got into bed with his brother and they just slept together. His brother took care of him. All of his brother’s friends were there because it was his brother’s friend’s birthday. So, there were like seven kids there, eight kids. All of my eldest son’s age. The reason my youngest son was there was because the birthday boy has a brother who’s their age and they wanted him to be occupied and not be in his brother’s way. So it worked out perfectly but then come sleep time, he’s never slept anywhere else before especially not away from his mom and dad and especially not where his not very comfortable. They know the rule, rule number six man. They take care of each other. They have to take care of each other.


[51:40] Ashley James: That’s awesome. So we got to take care of each other but we need to take that responsibility. I like that dichotomy again. We’re 100% accountable for everything that happens in our life and we need to help those who are struggling. We need to build community. I was just thinking, I have a friend who was born with intense dyslexia. He wasn’t diagnosed just because of the time of when he was born. I think he’s about 50 now. He went through school as intense dyslexic but he was not diagnosed until two years after graduating high school. His mom is an art teacher. So his mom helped him to pour in his creative outlet into things because he had a hard time reading and writing. Of course, getting through high school not being able to learn to read and write is very, very hurt. I’m just thinking like, someone who, like you use the example of a man who is African-American whose dad left whose mom was a crack person and had a lot of crap happen. It’s like, he’s like his not of a victim of circumstances. Yes, there’s definitely bias against me, the racial bias, bias around my upbringing, right? Then my friend over here who is extreme dyslexic. Both scenarios, they could have said that they’re a victim of education system. They’re a victim of the government. They’re a victim of societies’ bias against them. They could’ve bought in the victim hood and not made a life for themselves. But they both just worked even harder than everyone else in order to grab the joy and the life that they want. You know what? They’re probably happier because it was probably harder for them and it makes it even sweeter. That’s like, where going to come back to that idea that we’re in heaven and hell at the same time. Because when you don’t have to work for something to earn it, that doesn’t actually bring happiness.


[54:06] Eliot Marshall: No, it brings nothing.


[54:06] Ashley James: It brings nothing. But when you have to work your butt off to get something that brings you the most joy ever. So, yeah, we have to work our butts off. No one has it all. It’s like someone might be a certain race but the other person has a learning disability or the other person has a physical disability. Like everyone’s got something going on. Someone has, you know, bipolar. Everyone has something. Everyone has their hell. Everyone does. It doesn’t make racism right. It’s not right. That’s how we as a community need to help.


[54:46] Eliot Marshall: And we don’t. Sorry, go ahead. You go. I just thought about something.


[54:50] Ashley James: I was just saying that we need to, we obviously as individuals need to help as many people as possible, right? Because if we don’t want a world where there’s racism anymore, then we need to be that example as individuals to help that. But everyone is going through their own personal hell. Everyone has their demons they are facing. Everyone has their struggles, right? So, if we own it and then we plug in to community and help other people and other people help us, I love that idea. Taking ownership but at the same time helping other people because we need to help. Everyone has an imbalance that they’re dealing with.


[55:32] Eliot Marshall: We don’t need to compare. Mine doesn’t have to be worse than yours. Yours doesn’t have to be worse than mine. We don’t need to do this. We are where we are. Your hell is hell right now. My hell is, I don’t need to be well, let me tell you. Let me tell you about mine was. That’s unnecessary. The last little part here I think that helps me go through my life with this dichotomy is I don’t believe in the self-made man or that term is something man or a woman. It doesn’t exist.


[56:10] Ashley James: Because it took more than one person?


[56:13] Eliot Marshall: Man. So, I mean, for example this guy Eric Thomas. He’s like the number two. He’s an amazing motivational speaker. Did he invent the internet? Because that’s what made him be able to do it. It’s the internet.


[56:33] Ashley James: Right. So someone who’s a famous author, like he didn’t invent books. Tony Robbins didn’t invent infomercials.


[56:42] Eliot Marshall: No. Did you invent the author? Did you invent the printing press? No. Because that’s what did it. Without the printing press your author, your amazing writing skills, out the window. How many millions of people, billions of people came before you who tell way better stories in a way better way but there is no such this as the printing press? But now, while you‘re alive, there’s this printing. All of a sudden you did it on your own? Come on.


[57:09] Ashley James: I love that because we often will look at these people who have really made it. They made it. Like Tony Robbins has made it. He’s like a billionaire. He has made it. He’s helped so many people. You look at him and you’re like, “I could never do that.” But that’s like the little voice.


[57:26] Eliot Marshall: Yes, yes. That might be right. Hold on. You might not be able to be Tony Robbins. You know what I’m not? I’m not Lebron James. I’m not 6’8”. I am not a physical specimen that Lebron James is. That might be what I am. That’s okay. That’s okay. But there’s something that I could be Lebron Jamesesque at. I could be amazing at something. That’s what we have to realize. We’ve got to stop this comparison. Like, man I want to be like Mike. Yeah, me too. I want to be like Mike my whole life. But it didn’t work out. So what? So what? I’m going to be better than Mike at what I do. I’m going to be amazing at Eliot. That’s what I’m going to do. I hope that my amazing at Eliot shows everyone else who’s a fat Jewish black kid growing up with no friends. I hope everyone that sees that can go, “Oh man, I could be amazing too.” Because I don’t believe personally, I don’t know we might differ here, I don’t believe in free will. I believe we are a product of our chemical makeup and our life experience. We can’t touch our chemical makeup. So, there’s medicines and things that we could do to do that. But that is what it is. However, my job is to touch people’s life experience.


[58:55] Ashley James: I’m curious. Can you explain what do you mean by we don’t have free will?


[59:02] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. So, it comes down to things like choice. We make choices all the time. Every day we make a choice. Am I going to have apple juice or orange juice, bla bla bla? Can you think of a movie for me?


[59:16] Ashley James: The Game Changers.


[59:18] Eliot Marshall: Think of another one.


[59:19] Ashley James: Rambo.


[59:20] Eliot Marshall: Okay. So, why did you think of the Game Changers?


[59:23] Ashley James: Because I was just telling my doctor about it today.


[59:27] Eliot Marshall: Okay. So, you already had that conversation.


[59:28] Ashley James: Yup.


[59:29] Eliot Marshall: Then why did you think about Rambo?


[59:31] Ashley James: I guess because the Game Changer is about a bunch of athletes and Rambo is also a muscular guy.


[59:37] Eliot Marshall: Right. So, all on the same realm.


[59:39] Ashley James: Yup.


[59:39] Eliot Marshall: Why did you make that choice? Did we free to make that choice or did it just pop in your head?


[59:45] Ashley James: I mean, I know a lot of movies. I do. But those two popped in my head.


[59:49] Eliot Marshall: It just popped and you can’t even explain to me why.


[59:51] Ashley James: I can’t, no.


[59:53] Eliot Marshall: Were you free or did it just happen?


[59:55] Ashley James: I think it just happened.


[59:57] Eliot Marshall: So, at what choices that we make in our life do all of a sudden does this innate you take over and start making that choice?


[1:00:06] Ashley James: Well, I think consciously when I catch myself –


[1:00:13] Eliot Marshall: I couldn’t have asked you a simple conscious question.


[1:00:17] Ashley James: When I have to really consciously go, okay, this is a healthier choice for me to make. So, if I’m in the kitchen.


[1:00:25] Eliot Marshall: Sometimes you eat ice cream don’t you? 


[1:00:28] Ashley James: Yeah. Because I go, okay. We’ll just do it. But it’s plant based, there’s no dairy in it because that would hurt. But yeah.


[1:00:40] Eliot Marshall: Are you a Buddhist?


[1:00:43] Ashley James: No. I’m allergic to dairy and I’m plant-based.


[1:00:47] Eliot Marshall: Right. But still, the choice, it’s really this really weird thing. Like I said, we make choices all the time but if you could –


[1:01:02] Ashley James: But who’s making the choice? Who’s making it, right? Like what’s the –


[1:01:06] Eliot Marshall: We are. We definitely are. We definitely are making that choice but we couldn’t make another choice in the moment is what no free will means to me. Because of our chemical makeup and our past experience. That’s what lets me do the whole no blame no credit thing.


[1:01:21] Ashley James: Well, you’re also stopping yourself from shaming yourself or holding on to guilt.


[1:01:29] Eliot Marshall: Shaming myself and/or others. Even like the Murderer. It helps me have a little empathy for the murderer because if I can say, ‘man, if my life was that life, that’s where I’d end up too.’ I’m not better than that guy. Now, it will be really hard for me to get there right now. It will be really hard for me to be poor and broke and homeless right now, currently. That would take some major screw ups. Is screw up a curse word?


[1:01:56] Ashley James: No.


[1:01:58] Eliot Marshall: Okay. Nice. Okay. That would take some major screw ups on my part. This would take me years to bring me to mess this up bad currently. But man, let’s rewind 20 years. Let’s go put myself in the veteran, Vietnam veteran or the Iraq veteran or the whatever war veteran. Let me live his life and let me kill some kids, possibly, and then see where I go. But we don’t like to think like that. We like to think like, no man. This you could probably handle that but we’re not talking about this you. We’re talking about a different you. A totally different you. So, that what allows me to have a lot of empathy and try to be like, “You know what, I’m not better than anyone.” At the same time, no one’s better than me.


[1:02:54] Ashley James: There’s a principle in neurolinguistic programming that everyone is doing the best they can with the resources they have available.


[1:03:06] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. You think anybody wants to be a crack addict? I know what I’m going to do today. I’m going to wake up and become a crack head. No one has ever said that. A lot of people smoke crack unfortunately, right? A lot of people smoke crack and do terrible awful things and make terrible awful decisions. They’re doing the best they can at the moment.


[1:03:40] Ashley James: What’s the advice you have for people who really want to turn their life around for people who have just come to the conclusion that the direction they’re going is not the right one for them? They see themselves going down that really dark path.


[1:03:52] Eliot Marshall: Amazing, good for you. Yes. Amazing. So, now we can start. Now we can actually start to do something. Because you’re saying, I want something different. Until you say that, nothing’s going to change. I mean everyone, probably everyone listening if it’s adults, knows somebody or maybe is that person who is an addict, right? How much talking to an addict can you do to get them to change? Nothing.


[1:04:25] Ashley: They have to be ready.


[1:04:28] Eliot Marshall: They have to want it. I know sometimes they go, ‘oh man, that’s rock bottom,’ and then nope. We don’t l know what rock bottom looks like. But once you see it, once you are lucky enough, and I said lucky enough, to get a glimpse that you want something different for your life. Now we can do it. In my opinion, the way it’s done, is with mindfulness. We have to learn to be in the moment. We have to just be still and be in the moment. The way I do that is with meditation. I meditate every day. That’s where I start. That’s what I recommend for everyone to start when somebody asks me for some help is I say, “Hey, let’s try this mediation thing.”


Photo by Ksenia Makagonova on Unsplash


1:05:15] Ashley James: How did you learn to meditate?


[1:05:17] Eliot Marshall: So, religions never worked for me. It may never. I hope I’m going to come off like I’m going to bash religion here because I don’t want to. The whole sin thing doesn’t make sense in my mind. It doesn’t make sense to me. Like I was born. So you’re telling me I was born terrible? In my opinion, if you tie it back, it always ties back to some even or something that 10,000 years ago, five, whenever you choose the religion and the event that happened. Man why is that messing with me? Why am I paying that price? Do I do things wrong? Of course I do things wrong. So, the traditional Christianity and Judaism and Islam, they just don’t work for me because I can’t rationalize it out. Sometimes, the eastern religions, they go a little better for me in my head. Not so much the religion of them but the practice of them. Because you lose the self especially in Buddhism. How do we lose the self? We start losing the self by realizing literally just one single moment. I’ve been able to realize moments in my life a couple of times like where I’ve had just this, so when you fight professionally, when you walk into that cage and that cage door gets locked, there’s only you and another dude in there. You’re not thinking about anything else. Dinner is not going through that head. Nothing. My children are not going through my head. My wife and my mom, nothing. Then there’s even just more stillness. I can remember the very last fight that I had. My nickname’s the fire marshal. Then my coach, he will just call me as fire marshal. He sat down on the stool. I was probably, it was either I was tired or I was losing one round a piece. He looks at me and he goes, “All right fire marshal, we all know that this could be it for you right here.” I mean we’re in the middle of chaos. It’s chaos. A fight is just chaos. Literally, if that person were to kick my head off, they would do it, right? I just remember this piece came over me. This absolute calmness. I went out and I had the best round of my life against the best opponent I ever fought. [Inaudible] It was just this amazingness. I never got to do it again because that was my last fight. So, those moments. If we can start to realize them a little more, how do we recreate that? You recreate that by focusing on your breath, by realizing that all we have is right now and just digging deeper and deeper into that.


[1:08:43] Ashley James: I love it. That was so cool. One of my best friends is a master create yoga teacher. Create yoga is not the stretchy kind of yoga. It’s the stretch your mind kind of yoga. I’m going to hook you guys up. I’ve had him on the show before. He’s coming on again. His name is Forrest Knutson. He figured out. He lived in a monastery for several years. He was a monk. He’s been meditating since he was a teenager. He grew up in Idaho and he felt like, well everyone was drinking beer and driving trucks, he was meditating. He did not fit in. So he escaped to California and lived in a monastery for many years as a monk. He figured out a way of using biofeedback to go deeper into meditation and to go actually get into those data waves and stuff like that. So he’s all into the science of how to maximize mediation. I think that you guys would really get along. Actually, you might want to have him on your show actually. He’s so, I mean he’s meditating his entire life. What you described is really non-threatening for people who have never meditated. Okay, I’m just going to breathe and focus on the now and get that all that I have is right now. Okay. I’m just going to breathe and be in the now.


[1:10:05] Eliot Marshall: You can’t mess it up. If you sit there for 10 minutes, you did it. Yes, your thoughts go all over here and there, wherever. Yes, sure. Okay. A little stillness in your d ay. I’m reading Ryan Holiday’s new book Stillness. It’s amazing. Just have some stillness every day where you just sit there and breathe. Because our days are chaos. We’ve done this to ourselves. Society has done this. You said you have two kids. How old are your kids.


[1:10:39] Ashley James: Oh, I have one.


[1:10:41] Eliot Marshall: One, I’m sorry.


[1:10:42] Ashley James: She’s four and a half.


[1:10:42] Eliot Marshall: Four and a half. Like you’re here, you’re there, your husband, your job, your podcast, your this, your that, right? Then your phone rings, that damn cellphone. Because it never leaves you alone or did you choose to have it never leave you alone. Because you actually respond. I do the same thing. I’m as guilty as everyone. I choose to respond. One of the best things I ever did was turn that damn thing on silent. I’m not a slave to it as much. Every bit it makes like beep, beep. What’s that. Oh, a notification. Oh, Instagram. Oh, Facebook. Oh, my email. Oh, this. Oh, that. We try to say these stuff in the name of protection and security. The kids are at school so I have to have my phone on. Man, our parents didn’t have cellphone. Somehow, when I got sick at school, they found my parents. My parents came and got me. I was never stuck at school for days upon days. We do all of this in the name of security. It’s just not true. There’s not more child abductions now than there was before. So why do you have to track your kid on the cellphone?


[1:12:11] Ashley James: Did you find that your anxiety went up when you find yourself at the peak of phone notifications?


[1:12:21] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. I had to turn my phone off. Yeah, I had to stop screen time. I get 6 o’clock at night, the phone had to be done. I mean, I can do it now, I do better with it now. It doesn’t bother me as much. I didn’t have my phone on silent so every single time that thing beeped there was something for me to respond to. It’s not true. It’s just not true. Can you imagine 20 years ago? How old are you, Ashley?


[1:13:01] Ashley James: I’m going to be, I’m 39 1/2.


[1:13:03] Eliot Marshall: We’re the same age. When’s your birthday?


[1:13:05] Ashley James: March 7, 1980.


[1:13:05] Eliot Marshall: I’m July 7, 1980. Look it up. We’re like almost exact dates. A 7th. So we’re the same age, right? When you are 15 years old and somebody left the house, where did they go? They just disappeared in the ether, right.


[1:13:26] Ashley James: We just managed to find each other.


[1:13:30] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. But somehow it all works out. Mom came back with groceries and dad put them away.


[1:13:41] Ashley James: Life without cellphones was fantastic. It was weird. Every time we drive somewhere, I’m like, how did we get places without gps? I don’t remember. I don’t remember. But I remember driving to addresses that I’d never been to. How did we get there? How did we know how to get to places?


[1:13:59] Eliot Marshall: I try to do it now. As soon as I drive to a place, so I do a couple times with the gps when I go places. Then I turn the gps off and go, ‘okay, I’m going to try to remember things’ like you remember things. You should be like, okay dude. So you’re going to get to my house. After you take that left you’re going to take the third right. It’s going to be by the Shell station. You had to like do this. That’s exactly how we did it especially when we were kids and we were riding bikes.


[1:14:26] Ashley James: It’s like a whole skill that we don’t have anymore.


[1:14:31] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. It’s a whole skill. That’s important to keep. Look, I don’t want to just hate on social media and cellphones because it gives us the connection that we need. You and I, we couldn’t be doing this or have scheduled this or anything without social media and things like I’ll call. Because I call this social media and email is social media in my opinion. So, it’s not all terrible. But we need to have this balance. There has to be a little ying and yang. No victims but everything is your fault, but you got to help somebody.


[1:15:08] Ashley James: I love it. I love the constant dichotomy is great. It actually, you have to have higher thinking. You have to have developed higher mental thinking to be able to hold two opposing thoughts at once.


[1:15:22] Eliot Marshall: Because they oppose. They definitely oppose. I’m a math major. For me I think this is why getting to the religion a little bit. When it never worked there comes a point where the thought can’t be opposed. That has to just be true. That doesn’t work for me. Because everything in my life is falsifiable


[1:15:49] Ashley James: Question everything.


[1:15:53] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. Question it but you could prove it wrong to me. I wouldn’t die in the single one of my beliefs. I could be so wrong.


[1:16:03] Ashley James: Yes. You’re willing to be wrong. You’re willing to change your mind. I love that. I was so hardcore keto I don’t know three ago. Like this is the best diet in the world. I can’t believe it. A few months later, I’m like, this is really bad. What was I thinking? To be able to go, you know what, there’s some diets are really good for some people at that one point in their lives and then three months later it might be like a poisonous diet for them or a different person. It’s about finding the right diet for the right time for the needs of the person. But not buying into any dogma and so being willing to be wrong. Like I love that you say don’t die for your beliefs. Oh my gosh, people do that all the time.


[1:16:54] Eliot Marshall: Not a single one. Not to get political. I’m not going to judge you at all based on this question but are you pro-life or pro-choice?


[1:17:01] Ashley James: That’s a really, really hard question. It’s something that I’ve grappled with for a really long time. I thought when I was a teenager that I was 100% pro-life. Then I found out after my mom died my dad, the night my mom died my dad sat me down. Why he waited until she died I guess it was her wish. He said, “Do you know that you would have been an abortion? If I wasn’t pro-life…” I was like, what? My dad said to me, your mom never wanted you to know. I said to her, “No. We’re going to get married.” He completely stopped being a bachelor. He lived such a party lifestyle and he said, I love this unborn child in you and I’m going to raise her or him, because they didn’t know. He was just so, he loved life. My dad has passed since but he loved life so much and he loved people so much. He was so firm that life is so precious. That really laid an impact on me. I’m like, yeah. I can’t impose my will on anyone. So for me it’s like my body. Life is precious. I can only say pro-life in my womb because that’s the only womb I control. I wouldn’t impose on anyone else.


[1:18:27] Eliot Marshall: So the only reason I ask is because so many people, let’s just say, ‘okay, I’m pro-life but then I know that you would be pro second amendment. Then you would be pro this or pro that or against this or against that. Because we are so divided.


[1:18:46] Ashley James: Right. The second someone is pro guns. That must mean they’re this, that must mean they’re that.


[1:18:51] Eliot Marshall: That must mean they’re pro-life. If you’re pro-gun you’re pro-life. That is such crap. That is total crap that this is where we are.


[1:19:03] Ashley James: The reason why they created a two-party system, if you look at it, it’s to keep people fighting each other. If you keep the masses fighting each other they will not rise together.


[1:19:14] Eliot Marshall: Right. Because you think the other side is so terrible. If you voted for Donald Trump you are such an awful person. I can’t even be friends with you anymore. If you voted for Hilary, oh my God, her emails. We just hate each other. We just absolutely hate. Man, the day I lose a friend because of who they vote for, I have a huge problem. I have a huge problem. I’m not friends with anybody because of who they vote for.


[1:19:51] Ashley James: There was a time when I was in high school, this was in Canada, so socialized medicine –


[1:19:56] Eliot Marshall: I thought so. I thought so.


[1:20:00] Ashley James: House about. I don’t see anymore. So when I first moved here, my coworkers beat the eh out of me within one week. Every time I said eh they’d go turn on me and go b, c, d. About a week after that, it’s a habit for us to say eh. Anyways, I don’t say eh, I can’t shake the house or the about. So in Canada, I was really proud that I wasn’t afraid of shots, getting any vaccines. So I’d be the first in line. In high school, they didn’t need our parents’ permission, I got like the hep b, hep c whatever. I got a bunch of those vaccines. I got a bunch of whatever. A flu shot weren’t really big then. They were just starting to come in but I was super proud of getting them. I was first in line. I would pull up my sleeve. Yeah. Give me extra. Give me more. Give me three vaccines. Come on. I’m not afraid. I love shots. I was so pro that. Then I started to learn more and more and more about pharmaceuticals. Now, I look back, I was a completely different person than what I am now. My beliefs system, thank God I didn’t hold on to a belief system just for the idea that it was part of my identity because I have the exact opposite beliefs that I did when I was a teenager.


[1:21:24] Eliot Marshall: If I die thinking what I think right now, oh my God. Let’s just say I got to 80, if I die thinking what I think right now in 40 years, what a waste of time. What a waste of time. That means I learned nothing. It means I read no books. It means I did no study. It means I did no self-exploration. I did no growth. If I die like this, if this is where I end. Man, what a waste of time.


[1:21:56] Ashley James: I love that attitude. It’s like, ‘challenge me, challenge my belief system. Let me expand my mind.’


[1:22:04] Eliot Marshall: Please. So jiu-jitsu for me, that’s my rule number one is, me and my kids, have to jiu-jitsu because it’s ever changing. The way that you have to deal with it is ever changing. You get a live response, like in the moment. You get showed how wrong you are all the time. You have to adjust to that person. Oh, did that wrong, oh did that wrong. If you bat, when I say bat if you’re successful at 25% of the moves that you try in jiu-jitsu then you’re amazing, you’re a world champion because you’re just wrong all the time. But you get good at being wrong. You get good at adjusting. You get good at not caring about, who cares because all I do is mess up. It’s what I do better than everything else in the whole world is mess up.


[1:23:01] Ashley James: That is so cool. That concept of like if you’re actually getting it right 25% of the time you’re like a world champion. So there’s a lot of like getting it wrong and that’s okay because that’s actually good because you’re learning from each instance. I know so many people who are afraid to cook in the kitchen, are afraid to really expand their palette because you know, what comes down to it, they were never comfortable failing in the kitchen. They burnt something once, their spouse didn’t like what they cooked or whatever. It’s like this mental block.


[1:23:37] Eliot Marshall: Then they might tie their identity to it.


[1:23:39] Ashley James: Right. I’m not a cook. I’m not good at cooking.


[1:23:41] Eliot Marshall: Then they tie their ego to it. Their ego gets in the way. But if there is no self and there is no ego then how could get in the way? Right? How can it get in the way? So, if we can work on this then we can just be outside of it a little bit then maybe, possibly we can learn how to cook. Because come on, make a meal and you’re telling me you’ve never had a bad meal before. We’ve all eaten at McDonald’s.


[1:24:06] Ashley James: I was never afraid to burn things in the kitchen. I was never afraid to mess up. I was like six or seven years old, my grandmother was teaching me how to cook. She was a German Polish background so she’d perogies and shortbread cookies and this amazing chicken soup. I just loved making things in the kitchen. You know, I burnt so many things. That was just part of the process. My friends love, love eating at my place because I cook really, really healthy delicious food. But I just don’t have a fear of failure because I always am pushing the edge of the limits of what I can do. My husband’s like, “You experiment too much.” Because there’s a potential, there’s always like that fear factor. He’s looking at me, about to put the fork in his mouth, is this going to be bad, is this going to be good? I don’t know. Because when it’s good, it’s really good but I’ll serve anything even if it’s bad. So it’s just he does not know what he’s getting. I experiment. Just last night, we were over at our friend’s house. He was like, “You’re food is always good.” He looks at me. You experiment too much. I’m like, ‘That’s because Naomi only serves you the success stories. She doesn’t serve the failures.” Naomi’s like looks at him and goes, “Yeah.” We fail in the kitchen so we can learn how to make stuff better. That’s just how we succeed. But we don’t see them as failures. It’s like science and it’s an experiment. Then we go, ‘oh, less garlic, less thyme next time.’ I’m going to just do this next time or I need to set the temperature at this. It just becomes this continues ebb and flow of learning and growing the culinary skills.


[1:25:49] Eliot Marshall: There’s a saying in business. Hire slow, fire fast. That’s what you have to do because you have to realize your failure then let it go, right? I hired the wrong person, now am I going to hold on to this? Because now, again it’s going to be me who failed because I hired that person. It’s going to be me who failed because I burnt the food or I did this or I did that. Again, this all comes back to you and your ego and yourself. If we can get rid of this idea, if we can just lose this idea because we know that our ego is the enemy, then, that’s another Ryan Holiday book sorry. I steal everything, nothing is original. Somebody did it better.


[1:26:36] Ashley James: You should. Because you package it better.


[1:26:42] Eliot Marshall: I work on my spiel. I’m even doing it without cursing, look. I’ve never done this before.


[1:26:48] Ashley James: You’re doing amazing. You need to like hit the road. You need a whole show.




[1:26:56] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. We’ll get there. It’s okay. It really is okay that we fail. It’s the most amazing thing that we can do is we can fail because it’s just like courage. Courage is not, not being afraid. Courage, here comes one of my rules again, rule number four is being afraid and still doing it.


[1:27:21] Ashley James: It’s owning your fear.


[1:27:22] Eliot Marshall: It’s saying yes, I’m afraid. But you know what it’s not going to do? It’s not going to stop me. Failure is the same. Of course I’m going to fail. Man, there was this one time we were doing this thing for one of the schools. We spent $26,572.00, I remember the exact amount. It took nine months for them to build it out and then implement it. You know how fast we realized it sucked and wasn’t for us?


[1:27:53] Ashley James: I don’t know.


[1:27:54] Eliot Marshall: One week. One week. They were sitting there looking at each other going, damn it. But it’s not for us. It’s not who we are. It’s not our culture. It was so bad for us that we could see it. We had to let it go. Almost $30,000. But what would’ve been worse is just try to shove that crap down our people’s throats. What would’ve been worse is to put that out into the ether and put that out into the public so people could see that this is what we’re doing and this is how we are. That would’ve been worse because that would’ve compromised my soul.


[1:28:41] Ashley James: Or to have not taken any action in the beginning. If not done it for fear that it wouldn’t work out. Then always sit there wondering, what if I had?


[1:28:54] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. Wish I would have. What if and wish I would have are two words that I won’t say back to back.


[1:29:08] Ashley James: Unless you’re saying I won’t say them.


[1:29:09] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. But I won’t go, ‘what if this happens, what if the sun doesn’t come up tomorrow?’ All the evidence says that it will but there is this possibility. Now, am I going to live my life as what if the sun won’t come up? No, and wish I would have? I’m going to grind until the day I die.


[1:29:29] Ashley James: Awesome. It does take that conscious effort to catch yourself and go, “Oh, there I am shooting myself. Now I’m going to choose a healthier thought process.” It takes time to rewire the brain. The neuroplasticity of rewiring that brain. It does take that repetition of catching ourselves when we’re shooting ourselves and go, ‘all right, new way of being. New way of thinking.’


[1:29:56] Eliot Marshall: So there’s this competition called ADCC. It is the Olympics for grappling, for jiu-jitsu. I’ve been trying to get into this, you have to qualify or get invited, and I’ve been trying to get into this since I was 21 years old. It was the only thing in my professional career that didn’t accomplish. I got into everything else like I said. Man, this year I got in. I got an invite. At this old man age, I was the oldest guy in the whole competition. Look, there was no dreams of winning. The people that win these are 20, right? It’s like the Olympics. They dedicate their whole lives to this that I don’t dedicate. They train like I work. I train like they might actually work. If I get two hours in a day, that’s amazing. I can’t do that every day but they do. Now what got me good enough for me to be able to qualify is peace of mind. Like a different thought of how to compete. So, anyway, I get in and I have a two-time champ in the first round. It’s invite only. It’s 16 people per division. Only happens once every two years. It’s literally the Olympics. I was like, ‘you know what, I’m going to try this move right away. I’m going to sit down and I’m going to boom, I’m going to try to hit this move immediately. It’s a high risk, high reward move. I didn’t do it for the reward of it. I did it for the risk because I knew it was going to get this idea that I had to be perfect in the match out of my head right away. Immediately. I mean, look, I guess if I pulled it off I’d be on a highlight reel for the rest of my life pulling it off. I was also taking this risk that I was going to be on a highlight reel messing it up for the rest of my life. Where we landed was somewhere in the middle, more towards the bad end. It went very poorly for me. Then I’ve had to recover. I had to work my way out. Look, I didn’t win. But it got me out of the idea of I have to be perfect. Because I went into that and I was like, ‘you know what, I’m going to kill or be killed. I’m really going to go for it.’ Because I don’t want to have a boring match. I don’t want to have a match where like – right?

Photo by Samuel Castro on Unsplash


[1:32:32] Ashley James: You didn’t play it safe.


[1:32:33] Eliot Marshall: Yeah. If I get killed, even at the end I was like, ‘I’m losing right now.’ I was down on points. I was like, ‘I could stay right here,’ and you never want to get finished, right? That’s when you always have to tap. That always sucks. It messes with your ego. In the moment, I was like, ’okay, here I go. I’m going to take this risk.’ Because the only way that I could actually possibly still win is to now take this next major risk of possibly getting finished. I happen. I got finished because the guy’s amazing. He’s a multiple, he’s like a 5-time, 6-time world champion. So, it is what it is. I’m 40, right? But I was super proud of myself for keeping the kill or be killed mentality all the way through the match. I blew it immediately. I didn’t go ten seconds without an absolute epic fail. Then it had no bearing in the match. I recovered to the point where it was mutual again. The score still stayed 0-0. So, yeah. Fine.


[1:33:42] Ashley James: That is so sweet. I love recovery stories. I love it.


[1:33:47] Eliot Marshall: That’s what we have to do.


[1:33:48] Ashley James: Shaking it off and like mentally recovering is a skill. Like how quickly can I bounce back? Another landmark forum experience after my mom died¸ I went and retook landmark forum which is like their foundation weekend course. That’s the course where they have you get that I’m the cause of everything in my world. People are fighting it. They’re like, ‘what about rape?’ they’re bringing out all the really, really dark stuff. By the end of the course they get it. That it’s taking responsibility so that nothing else have power over you. Then when you’re in that mentally position, you position yourself as being responsible for everything in your world. Then you are at cause in your moment. Every moment you’re at cause creating your world. So a victim of rape is no longer a victim of rape. They’re being a cause in their world. They get to decide how they move forward with their life and not allow that act that happened to them to continue to affect them years later. They’re going to seek healing.


[1:35:02] Eliot Marshall: How long are you going to take that person rape you?


[1:35:04] Ashley James: Exactly. It’s not condoning it. It’s bad. It’s horrible. It’s wrong. They should all be castrated. Seriously, maximum penalty. The person who had it happened to them, they have the power to become empowered. To find their power, right? So, anyways, that’s like the first step in the forum. So, it’s a freaking heavy weekend. I went. I would drove all the way to Montreal with a few of my friends. One of the oldest forum –


[1:35:37] Eliot Marshall: Where in Canada are you from?


[1:35:38] Ashley James: I’m from Toronto. Yeah. I’m from North York. One of the oldest forum leaders who have been doing it for like 30 years, I asked him. I’m like, ‘You know, I just lost my mom a few months ago and I’m really depressed. I’m grieving really heavily and I want to, I just couldn’t get out of this loop. I want to make sure I’m grieving healthfully.’ He told me a story. He goes, ‘You know, I was leading a landmark forum,’ he was leading this class for hundreds of people. It was a really big class. They only had like 15-minute break. So he comes out and it’s his break and he’s drinking some water or something. He gets a phone call and his brother had just died of a heart attack. His mind just starts going off. He goes, ‘I thought about our last phone call. I can’t remember if I said I love you or not. I didn’t say I love you. We had a fight. It just started vicious cycle over and over again.’ He started feeling guilty and shame and blaming and agree. His mind was just messed up like anyone would be to get the news that their brother had died. He only had 15 minutes to recover and go back on stage because the lives of these people are at stake, right? They’re all there to get a transformation for their life. He can’t just check out mentally. So he had to like seriously have a moment just like you did where it’s like he had to recover. So he caught himself. This is what really hit me is that even the healthiest people in the world, the healthiest people in the world still would catch the cold once in a while. But it’s how fast their body heals. It’s how fast their body gets over it. So they might have a fever, go to bed with sniffles and wake up the next day and be totally fine. Whereas the average person is in bed for a week or two, right? It’s not that we’re invaluable. It’s not that you get so good at personal growth that you never fail or never slip up. It’s how fast you recover. So he share the story of how he was able to recover from that. He said to himself, he just got in touch with what so, with reality. What is real in the now? He said to himself, ‘I miss him. I love him. I’m sad,’ about his brother. I can’t remember his brother’s name. He’s like, “I miss Tom. I love him. I’m sad. I miss him. I love him. I’m sad.’ Any other thought was not what so, it wasn’t real. It was a made up story. He didn’t know I loved him or it’s my fault. I should’ve done this. I should’ve done that. All of that was just tripping him up. But if had just gotten in touch with the what so, what so is I miss him, I love him, I’m sad. That’s what kept him present in the moment. Then he recovered. Then he got back on stage and he led an amazing weekend for those people. Some people might say he wasn’t grieving healthfully or he was like shoving it down. He wasn’t ignoring his feelings. He was owning them. He wasn’t pushing them away. He is in them. He went through them just like you said, go through it. He went through it. He owned. He recovered. He said, eventually the sadness went away. Then he just said, ‘I miss him, I love him.’ He said, ‘he’s gone. I miss him. I love him. I’m sad. He’s gone. I miss him. I love him. I’m sad.’ Then eventually it was, ‘he’s gone. I miss him. I love him.’ That really helped me with my grieving because it’s like, yeah I had so much going on in my head about blaming myself. I mean my mom died of cancer. I was 22 years old and yeti felt like it was my fault or I could’ve done so. If only I had done this. If only I had done that, right? So I had to own what so and then really get all that stuff that’s not so is not real and stop holding it against myself. I love that your story shows that in the most intense situation. You chose to do something completely ballsy and you’re totally okay that it messed up because you recovered really quickly mentally and it’s all mental, right? Because your game is in your head. So you mentally recovered and you physically recovered and then you like shook it off and you kept fighting.


[1:40:06] Eliot Marshall: So for me, we have to practice, right? We have to practice for when the big moments come. Like when your mom dies and your brother dies. Because let me tell you, you know when it’s not a big moment? Who the world champion is. What’s your favorite sport?


[1:40:25] Ashley James: Hockey?


[1:40:27] Eliot Marshall: Hockey, who won the Stanley cup in 2011?


[1:40:30] Ashley James: Oh geez, I have no idea. I’m not great.


[1:40:33] Eliot Marshall: Hold on. I love jiu-jitsu. I love jiu-jitsu. Guess what, I don’t remember who the world champion was either. Okay. Because how can it actually matter? If we don’t know who the very, very, if we have to Google who the very, very best was at said activity in that year, at that moment, then it can’t really actually matter. So what is the point of this? The point of this is for me to go out there and practice being in the moment. So even if I would’ve won that match it still wouldn’t have mattered because what’s going to matter is my kids going to need me at some point. My kids going to need me maybe on my worst day. When my mom dies or something and I’m going to have to show up. I still going to have to show up. So that’s the practice that I’m doing. These tough moments that I choose to put myself in, come on. You think somebody cares who wins a barely legal street night on a Saturday night? No. Nobody cares. Because if they did they would remember them all but we sure do remember the times when we really needed somebody. So those are the moments I’m practicing for. Those are the moments that I’m always practicing for. That’s why I choose to do really hard stuff. I like hard stuff. I like working out really intensely. I know about the physical benefits. Yes. I like the mental benefit.


[1:42:08] Ashley James: I actually got to hang out with Marilu Henner a few times. She’s an actress. She was in Taxi. She was on the Apprentice. I thought she was really good on the Apprentice. She has this crazy ability that she has photographic memory but you can tell her what happened on May 7, 1982. She will tell you everything that happened, or you could say to her if you’ve met her a few times, tell me every date we ever like every period in time we ever met each other. She just remembers dates and what happened on each day. She’s a really cool public speaker. We had an opportunity to hear her a few times. We were actually in Cancun with her at one point. She has this thing where she says, ‘Choose your heart.’ She has a whole spiel obviously that comes with it. But the point is choose your heart. Don’t sit there and worry about stuff and try to stay safe and try to keep comfortable, right? Because the more we try to stay safe and keep comfortable the more uncomfortable and unsafe we’ll be down the road.


[1:43:32] Eliot Marshall: God, it’s so terrible. It’s so terrible what we do though, right? It goes back to our kids. You know, all the stuff we do to make our kids safe.


[1:43:40] Ashley James: Then we’re just making them unsafe because we’re making them so naïve and so sheltered.


[1:43:45] Eliot Marshall: So sheltered. I read this great book. It’s called the Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt. It’s got this amazing line in it. ‘Are you preparing your kid for the road or are you preparing it the road for your kid?’ We know we can’t prepare the road for the kid because we don’t know what the road looks like. You can’t prepare it. It’s impossible. So you have to prepare the child. You have to prepare the child and you. Where we blow this is that our kids’ failures are our failures. That their sucking at soccer is us or their bad great at school. So what did we do? We stopped keeping score and we stopped giving them grades. You’re child’s four, I don’t know how many sports she plays yet or if she’s into them. But let me tell you, the no scoreboard thing is terrible. It’s awful. You should see what happens. Because we have to options with the no scoreboard thing. If we don’t want to keep score, then we also have to teach our kid not to count. Because if they can count, they’re going to keep score. Since there’s not a board that says the score, they scream the score out. God forbid it’s a blowout. ‘It’s 42-2.’ Because they’re counting. If the actual 42-2 is just right on the board, they wouldn’t count.


[1:45:22] Ashley James: And rob it in each other’s faces?


[1:45:24] Eliot Marshall: No. it seems like they’re robbing it in each other’s faces when they’re screaming 42-2 but they’re not. They’re just counting. They’re just counting. It seems that they’re bragging but they’re six and they’re five so you practice what you’re learning, right? You’re learning how to count and stuff in school so that’s what you’re doing. Now, look. If you just put the scoreboard up there, they wouldn’t do it. It wouldn’t seem like bragging. They wouldn’t be screaming at each other. None of this would be going on. We could actually talk to our kids about, ‘hey Canan,’ that’s my oldest,  ‘this is how you deal with winning by that much. Hey Canan, when you’re on the other side of 42-2, I know that feels really bad. So now we’ve got some chances that we can make. So we can either quit and give up or we can try to learn how to play basketball better. Now look, I won’t even say quitting and giving up isn’t your thing because maybe you have two left hands and you can’t dribble and athletics is just not right for you. Maybe art is or maybe this is. But let’s go find what you’re great at. That’s okay. I’m find with it. We’re not quitting this season. You chose to play basketball so we’re sticking out. I get it. Not for you man. So, I know I loved basketball but that’s okay that you don’t. What are we going to do for you to be amazing? This has nothing to do with me.’ So all of this prepare your kid for the road stuff it’s all back on us. We just can’t handle our kids sucking.


[1:47:04] Ashley James: It’s robbing them of how learning through failure. It’s robbing them.


[1:47:11] Eliot Marshall: Have you learned any other way?


[1:47:13] Ashley James: No. I do not learn from success. I learn from failure and then I tweak and I go, ‘oh that worked. Okay, keep doing that.’


[1:47:20] Eliot Marshall: How’d your child learn how to walk?


[1:47:21] Ashley James: Right. A lot of wobbly.


[1:47:23] Eliot Marshall: He just failed. A lot of wobbly, right? It does this rock thing. It does shoulder to shoulder, on its back and then it can roll over. That took a couple of months. Then he or she does this thing where they start to get up on their hands and knees and they slip out. Then they do this thing where they get up on their hands and feet and they rock back and forth like they’re getting ready to crawl. They do that for a couple of weeks, right? This was my two anyway. Then they crawl and then they fall over. Then they get back up. Then they start to pick themselves up on objects like on couches. This is where things get really bad because now they’re about to be mobile. You can’t just put them down anymore. They won’t be in the same spot when you get back. Then they start crawling or walking along a couch. Then they get really brave. They get really, really brave. They let go of the couch and then what happens? They fall. It doesn’t stop them. Somewhere along the line we do something to them that stops them with their learning that they think that this doing poorly is really, really bad. It’s just not. It’s just a lesson. Man, sometimes you got to say, ‘Hey Johnny, that wasn’t good.’ You cannot say, ‘Johnny, that wasn’t good,’ and then walk away from them. You have to say, ‘Johnny, that’s not good. I’m going to be here with you until we figure out either how to make it good or how to change directions. But I’m not leaving you. I’ll never leave you. So let’s do this. Which one?’



[1:49:08] Ashley James: I love it. I love it. Own failure. Be excite about it so we can learn it. Learn from it and grow from it and be willing to push ourselves outside of our comfort zones to be okay with the failure. I know it sounds cliché, but it’s like that is the most joy you’re going to get. I played softball and our team came in dead last. I mean I don’t think we won any games. I look back at that so fondly. I had so much fun. We just tried our hardest, you know. We weren’t crying. We weren’t butt hurt. We were hitting the balls as much as we could and running as fast as we could. We just really sucked and that’s okay. I look back on the times I played softball and I had so much fun. I noticed I was a bit better at the end of the season, right? If we probably kept going year after year we would’ve improved. It’s okay. It’s okay to not be perfect. It’s okay to burn something in the kitchen. It’s okay to not be able to run the marathon.


[1:50:27] Eliot Marshall: Then there’s Tiger Woods, right. There’s Tiger Woods who had an overbearing dad who pushed him into this. I’m reading this chapters in Stillness. His dad was intense. There’s a Tiger Woods chapter. I mean his dad in his swing while he was swinging he would through change at him and hit him with things. He called him a little n word. ‘You little n word.’ He made Tiger into this stone cold killer that Tiger Woods became. But it wasn’t enough. It wasn’t enough. Tiger is probably the best golfer that’s ever played. He’s for sure made the most money and what happened? It just fell apart. It fell apart. How did he get it back? Because he just got it back in the masters this year, right. He went a decade without winning a major. What changed? He changed. He started to love people. He started to love the crowd. He used to hate the crowd. Hate them. Hated the other players on tour because that’s what his dad made him into being. Then he saw how wrong it was. He reconciled with his ex-wife. I don’t mean reconciled like they’re back together. They’re not back together. They’re able to co-parent, which is what’s more important than that, right? That’s the biggest thing that that guy has to fix. That relationship with his ex-wife so that they could actually be good parents together. Because there’s going to be times, who’s going to be at the graduation? Mommy or daddy? Man, that’s awful for a child. That’s what he fixed. I mean this story to me is one of the most amazing stories there is. Then he was able to come back. He was able to do what he did at the masters. Look at what it did for us. It’s the first time since September, since 9/11, right? Since 2001 that every single person watching something agreed. On Sunday, everyone wanted Tiger to win. That’s what was amazing. Because damn, we love a success story. We love the success story of Tiger. But man, do we love even more to watch someone fall and then rise again. That’s the Jesus story. We love it. We eat it up. We love to watch it come true, He couldn’t have done that without totally breaking himself down. That’s what he have to do. Then look what it did for us. It was amazing. People that don’t even like golf were sitting in bars watching Tiger Woods cheered like they’ve been cheering for him since 1997. Because it’s amazing. It gave you some hope that as a 40-year-old that you could reinvent yourself. That it’s not over.


[1:53:59] Ashley James: Brilliant. It’s never over.


[1:54:02] Eliot Marshall: It’s over when the dirt comes on top. My eyes closed.


[1:54:08] Ashley James: When they put you in the ground, then it’s over.


[1:54:09] Eliot Marshall: It’s over you know. Until that point, we need to thank the people that came before us and live for the people that our coming with us. For me, I just did something that was really interesting. Like I said, my grandparents survived the holocaust but I’m not religious. If you ask me what I am, I’m Jewish because of them, because of their suffering. Last Wednesday was Yom Kippur and you’re supposed to fast on Yom Kippur. I’ve never fasted before. But man, I felt the need to fast and I’m going to fast every year on Yom Kippur until it ends and it’s for them. It’s to pass on my family’s tradition. I told this to all of my students, I told all my students on Tuesday night because it was Tuesday night to Wednesday night. I said, ‘look guys, I’m going to fast tomorrow because my grandparents survived the camps. What happened to my grandfather while in the camps, he swore that when Hitler came, I know we started with this, that his family was always going to get out. He was going to make it so that we would be okay. His blood would always be okay. That man saw everyone die. Like when the ghettos were raided, that was it. That was the last time he saw any of his family. He had nine brothers and sisters, a mom and dad, everything. That was done. That was the last. It was over. He then saw his wife die before him. His oldest child, my uncle died before he died. Then he died finally. So the blood that he didn’t see die was my mom and me and my sister. I can remember my whole life, he just wanted me to do something like financially secure. Do this, do this, right? Like so that I could be be my own boss. He fought me the whole way in this martial arts thing. I always said I was going to open my own martial arts school. He fought me the whole way. Then, when he was dying, I went and took my oldest son because my oldest son was a baby at the time and I took him to see him. So that he could see him before he died. He got to meet him. My wife took my baby and left. It was super obvious that this was going to be it. This was going to be the last time that I saw my grandfather. We started crying, my mom started crying. He looked to my mom and he said, “Just give him whatever he wants. Give him whatever he wants when he wants it.” So, he died with a little bit of money on him, look, just like a little bit. What it did was that my mom did it. My mom gave me that money and that’s what opened my first school to let me buy into that school. I don’t have anything in my life without that, without his sacrifice. Without his whatever it is that he did. So, I’m going too fast. I’m not fasting every year because I believe in any of that stuff. I’m fasting for them. Again, it comes back to people. Help people and pass it along. Because what he did for me, I can’t pay that back, right? I can’t pay that back. It goes back to everything that we were talking about, right? That terribleness of the concentration camps. What it lead to was this amazingness that I have with my jiu-jitsu schools. That’s what ended up saving my life, right? That’s what saved my life when it went dark for me. The awfulness. So, when we talk about the holocaust and things like that. We’re talking about ownership. He just said, ‘look, of course it’s not his fault.’ He’s going to make it so that nobody, his blood doesn’t ever have to deal with this again. Now I get to have this amazing thing that I have. This community of martial arts. It’s more than a community of martial arts. It’s a community of family where man, I get to employ my best friends. They don’t have jobs, they have careers. They have careers. They’re never going to go do anything else unless they want to. They’re going to be able to take care of their families, you know. That’s all because of this awful thing that was the holocaust. That’s why all of this happens. So, for me a little bit of suffering and a little bit of sitting back, realizing that one day a year, I can handle that.


[1:59:03] Ashley James: You said you can’t pay him back but you can pay it forward


[1:59:06] Eliot Marshall: The only thing I can do is try to make more people be as lucky as I was from that moment. Everyone that comes in contact with me, I just want them to be so lucky. I want them to be like, ‘God man, I’m going to find my power.’ Because look, from the holocaust to here. You can draw the line. You can draw the line of my family from one of the most awful things that’s ever happened in the history of the world to where we are today. To where I am today. It’s a straight line. You don’t even have to make a turn.


[1:59:43] Ashley James: I love it. That’s brilliant. Thank you so much Eliot Marshal for coming on the show today and sharing some sage, sage wisdom with us. It’s been a real pleasure hanging out with you today. You’ve given us a lot to chew on.


[2:00:02] Eliot Marshall: Just hey, you can do it. You can do it. If you’re one of the ones suffering, just know you’re not alone. If you’re not one of the ones suffering, go make someone’s life better. Just watch what happens. Don’t worry about your life. If you’re not suffering, then man, your life’s doing pretty good. So go make someone else’s life better and then now we’re talking. Thank you so much. I mean, I love this two-hour thing because we got to really talk.


[2:00:39] Ashley James: Yes. Awesome. It’s such a pleasure having you on the show Eliot. You’re welcome back anytime. This was great. Of course the links to everything Eliot Marshal does, his books and his podcasts are all going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast, learntruehealth.com. Eliot, is there anything that you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview? Any final homework that you want to give us.


[2:00:56] Eliot Marshall: I would like you to give me some homework. Is that okay?


[2:01:00] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, I have homework for you. Are you ready it?


[2:01:02] Eliot Marshall: Yeah.


[2:01:03] Ashley James: I was going to do it when we’re done recording. I’m going to hook you up with my friend Forrest Knutson. His website is That Yogi Guy. He has a ton of videos on YouTube. Really entertaining because he wants to obviously people to actually watch them. So, he makes this entertaining videos teaching create yoga, which is again not stretchy yoga but like mind stretchy yoga. So, I’m going to hook you up with Forrest. You should chat with him. He loves teaching people how to make meditation even deeper and fast and even better at it. Then I’m going to put you in touch with some of my content for eliminating anxiety because these tools, these neurolinguistic programming tools are outstanding when it comes to just bending the mind so it focuses on what you want instead of what you don’t want to get to the root cause of anxiety. The last thing I was going to turn you on to, because a lot of people get really good results with this, I’m sure you take supplements and all that. Magnesium is the most important mineral in the body for everything. It has 1,800 processes, enzymatic processes they’ve figured out that the body needs magnesium for. So it’s more important than calcium but when we’re deficient in it, which a lot of people are, we actually can have physical anxiety and be in stress response easier. You talked about sleep. People who use this magnesium noticed better sleep, deeper, more restful sleep. So people who are deficient magnesium, I mean it’s over 200 symptoms of magnesium deficiency but sleep problems is one of them. Anxiety is another. So, it’s really hard to get enough magnesium orally because of how the gut works. It just goes out the other end really quickly. So, IV has been sort of the best way but no one’s going to go into a doctor’s office every week and like go get intravenous magnesium. That’s just not economical. The other way is this concentrated liquid from the Zechstein Sea in Scandinavia that contains not only magnesium in its most absorbable form for the body, but also other co-factors. So, you take this concentrate and you put it in a little water and put your feet in it. You soak for an hour and you could be like doing a podcast right now with your feet soaking. I always do it when I’m doing something else too. I’m in the desk or I soak when I’m in the sauna. It’s not like you’re sitting there going, ‘darn, I have to soak and I have nothing else to do.’ That doesn’t ever have to happen. You could always do it while you’re doing something.


[2:03:47] Eliot Marshall: We don’t live in that world anymore.


[2:03:48] Ashley James: We don’t live in that world, no. People have done, it’s thousands of people, have done the blood test called the magnesium RBC test where they their magnesium before and after 30 days soak challenge. Their magnesium goes up to healthy levels. So they’ve done all kinds of test on it. But it’s really, really cool. So, I’m going to hook you up with the magnesium soak that I love. 3, Bowen, who I’ve had on the show several times, created it after she was 78 pounds, having 30 seizures a day in a wheelchair. She tells her story. It’s really amazing. Magnesium was a major major part of her recovery. That’s why she created the company. The company she was sourcing from, they started their quality went down so she decided to make her own. So, she gets it from the Zechstein Sea. She sells it in liquid form, not in the flake. People go, ‘You could save money by using flakes.’ It’s not the same. They’ve chemically processed it. They’ve taken a lot of the co-factors out. It does not raise magnesium RBC levels the same. So people get a really, really positive difference. So, I’m going to hook you up with Kristen Bowen. Her website is livingthegoodlifenaturally.com. That’s a mouthful.


[2:05:00] Eliot Marshall: Now, it’s okay. I’m stoked too. I’m stoked


[2:05:02] Ashley James: Livingthegoodlifenaturally.com. The listeners get a discount, LTH, gets the discount. I’m going to make sure. I’m going to send an email and hook you up with Forrest and hook you up with Kristen Bowen. Then I’ll send you some links for the free you anxiety. I have some interviews where I teach some of my stuff. Anyone listening that wants to know for more information, Forrest Knutson who’s an amazing meditator. He’s thatyogiguy.com. The magnesium soak, I’m totally, totally obsessed with. I’ve been doing it over a year. My son for example, they’re hyper. They’re three years old, right. He was three years old at the time. He’d always fight us to go to sleep. He’s an Aries if you know astrology. He’s just like, he’s all about being in the now and being awake 24/7. We put him through the magnesium soak in his bath. It’s not like he knew. It’s a blind test. He didn’t know we put it in his bath. He started to tell us he was ready for bed. He’s like, ‘I’m ready. Could we go read some books? I’m ready for bed.’ We’re like, ‘what?’ So it really, really works. A lot of my listeners said it really helped. So, that’s livingthegoodlifenaturally.com, coupon code LTH. The third thins is on my website, learntruehealth.com there’s a tab at the top that says, Anxiety or Free Your Anxiety or you can type anxiety into the search bar. You can get all my episodes where I teach. Then I have a class. It’s only a few hundred dollars where I teach 21 lessons between 30 and 45 minutes long, 21 of them. It’s just like for a few hundred dollars. It’s everything I’ve taught since 2005 with all of my clients who have amazing success with eliminating anxiety. So, those are my three pieces of homework I’m going to send you some emails.


[2:06:53] Eliot Marshall: I appreciate it. I was going to ask for it. I wanted to bring it up that way. Yes, I do take Lexapro. I’m trying to come off of it. We talked about it beforehand. I’m just trying to come off of it just to see what the work that I’ve done over the last three years has been like. Just a test.


[2:07:12] Ashley James: Test yourself and go. How far have I come?


[2:07:15] Eliot Marshall: Maybe the Lexapro allows me to really go far. That’s okay too. I’m okay with going back on in I have to. So I’m kind of in the middle of it. It’s not the most comfortable thing because there are some definite side effects to it. I would like to still keep going for a little bit and keep challenging. We talked about it offline but I think it’s really important for people to know online too. You are not suffering alone. Whatever you do, there’s this huge stigma around SSRIs and things like that. If you need you need it.


[2:07:50] Ashley James: It’s better to be on it and be alive and be thriving than to not be on it and to like go somewhere very dark.


[2:08:00] Eliot Marshall: We only get one chance at this beautiful thing that we call life. Man, to go through it. Yes, I do love suffering, but to go through it truly suffering like fighting everyday just to be alive. That’s not living guys. So, if you need help, get help. Please, in whatever way you need to. Thank you for the homework. I appreciate that.


[2:08:26] Ashley James: Awesome. Well Eliot, it’s going to be fun having you on the show in a year or two. You can let us know the follow up. How has it been? I like doing that with guests where they come back and they share like, ‘all right. Well I got off that med and this is what happened then. Then I wrote my book.’ Whatever. You’re going to share the updates because we’re never done learning.


[2:08:48] Eliot Marshall: Maybe I won’t be off.


[2:08:49] Ashley James: Maybe you won’t be off.


[2:08:51] Eliot Marshall: Maybe I won’t be off. That would be okay too. There’s no attachment to that, right? Everyone’s truth isn’t the same. So it’s going to be okay either way.


[2:09:04] Ashley James: I want to hear the update to your continuous journey because you’re constantly striving to grow. So, that’s always going to be an adventure to have you back.


[2:09:13] Eliot Marshall: Are you on Instagram Ashley?


[2:09:14] Ashley James: @learntruehealth


[2:09:18] Eliot Marshall: @learntruehealth. I’m going to follow you in a second. Oh man, I really enjoyed this. Thank you very much.


[2:09:25] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show today and can’t wait to keep in touch with you and have you back on the show and have you share your continuous journey with us.


[2:09:38] Eliot Marshall: Sounds great Ashley. Have a great night.


[2:09:40] Outro: Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition? And how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity. Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business and support people in their success? Do you love helping people?

You might be the perfect candidate to become a health coach. I highly recommend checking out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. I just spent the last year in their health coaching certification program. And it really blew me away. It was so amazing. I learned over a hundred dietary theories. I learned all about nutrition. But from a standpoint of how we can help people to shift their life and shift their lifestyle to gain true holistic health. I definitely recommend you check them out. You can Google Institute for Integrative Nutrition or IIN and give them a call. Or you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach and you can receive a free module of their training to check it out and see if it’s something that you’d be interested in. Be sure to mention my name Ashley James and the Learn True Health podcast because I made a deal with them that they will give you the best price possible. I highly recommend checking it out. It really changed my life to be in their program. And I’m such a big advocate that I wanted to spread this information.

We need more health coaches. In fact, health coaching is the largest growing career right now in the health field. So many health coaches are getting in and helping people because you can work in chiropractic offices, doctors’ offices, you can work in hospitals. You can work online through Skype and help people around the world. You can become an author. You can go into the school system and help your local schools shift their programs to help children be healthier. You can go into senior centers and help them to shift their diet and lifestyle to best support them in their success and their health goals. There are so many different available options for you when you become a certified health coach.

So check out IIN. Check out the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Mention my name, get the best deal. Give them a call and they’ll give you lots of free information and help you to see if this is the right move for you. Classes are starting soon. The next round of classes are starting at the end of the month. So you’re going to want to call them now and check it out. And if you know anyone in your life who would be an amazing coach, please tell them about it. Being a health coach is so rewarding and you get to help so many people.

Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That’s takeyoursupplements.comTakeyoursupplements.com. That’s takeyoursupplements.com. Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.

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