Ashley James & Dr. Michael Haley


  • What foods to eat to be well
  • How to relieve constipation
  • Gut, the soil of our intestines
  • Nourishing the gut flora
  • Food Mood Poop Journal
  • Changes you can do if you have chronic gut issues

Keeping our gut healthy is very important because it has an impact on our overall health. How we eat can have a positive or negative effect on our body. Dr. Michael Haley is back on the show and we discuss all things gut health. He talks about how we can nourish the gut flora, keeping a Food Mood Poop Journal to track how food affects us, and simple changes we can make to improve our overall gut health.


​​Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I am thrilled to finally sit down and publish this episode. As you may have seen, there was a bit of a gap between the last episode and this one. Life has been very interesting. Lots of unexpected twists and turns. I’m actually in the middle of moving again, and it’ll be a good move. We’re moving closer to family members that we’re taking care of and so we will come out on the other side happier and just rolling with the punches. 

It reminds me about the lessons I learned when I studied Neuro-linguistic Programming that the person who has the most flexibility of behavior is able to overcome, and it’s those parts of our lives where we’re most rigid that we end up suffering when it’s required of us to become flexible.

Our guest today is Dr. Michael Haley, who’s a fantastic doctor. I’ve had him on the show before, and he’s come back today to talk about specific and actionable steps that you can take starting today to optimize your gut health, no matter where you are in the grand spectrum of gut health. Whether you are suffering and you’re really looking to get a leg up, or whether you have fairly good gut health and you end there’s always room for improvement, everything that he talks about today is fantastic and you will absolutely love it.

I also love and highly recommend trying out his aloe drink. It’s a medicinal type of aloe. He talks about how they produce it versus the store-bought aloe, which is very different. Store-bought aloe—even the pain you can get at a specialty health food store—is highly processed, filtered, most of the medicinal properties are taken out, and also they tend to be the whole aloe plant, which Dr. Haley talks about in today’s interview and how that’s actually not good for us. Whereas his medicinal aloe is the gel itself, it is unadulterated, it’s frozen immediately the same day that they harvest it from the fields, and then they ship it to frozen. You defrost it and drink it and it has immediate effects.

It’s really cool because he’s got more science on how it supports the body, and he talks about that in today’s interview. If you want to give the aloe a try— I love having it in my freezer because if you ever come down with a stomach bug, I had this happen before wherein its tracks, it immediately stopped all the symptoms of having a stomach bug. It really helps with that if you’re overcoming anything gut-wise. We talk more in-depth about that in today’s interview.

I’ll just leave you with a coupon code because I want you to get this listeners’ discount. He gives us a great discount and then he throws in a gift as well, so I want to make sure that you get that. I made it really easy. Go to That takes you straight to the page where he put the special just for our listeners there. It’s If you’re ever on his website and you’re checking out other stuff, you can use the coupon code []—as in the year 2022—and give it a shot.

Free to join the Facebook group and chat with us about the aloe. Several listeners have shared how it’s helped them as well. If you have any questions, you can always jump into the Learn True Health Facebook group. Again, the links which will always be in the show notes down in the description of today’s episode at, you always go there. And then for the aloe, it’s, and the coupon code is [].

Thank you so much for being listeners, and thank you so much for sharing this podcast. I am on this journey with you. You know I’ve recovered. If you’ve been a longtime listener, you probably heard that I reversed diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections for which I was on antibiotics for monthly. I reversed polycystic ovarian syndrome. I no longer have that. I reversed lifelong infertility. I was told after a battery of tests that I’d never conceive and I have. I was told basically that I’d always have to be on medication and I was always going to be sick. I said no, I’m going to go and find better medicine because MD, allopathic, drug-based medicine has its place. It has its place, but it’s not the only medicine we should always turn to.

Just like you wouldn’t take your car to a plumber, why are you taking your body to the person who only has a small fraction of the full scope of medicine? That’s what had me set out on my journey to healing, and I reversed all those conditions by being mentored by Naturopathic physicians, and later becoming a holistic health coach and being mentored and taught by these physicians since 2011. This wonderful journey that I’m on to get optimal health, I am on it with you. If you’re sick and suffering, please know, you don’t have to suffer. There are things that you can do to heal your body.

Now, lately, I’ve been really struggling emotionally with what I’ve gone through in the last year—losing our daughter right after birth and also having COVID. It was pretty brutal because it was right after pregnancy and I was still grieving, so it’s like three punches at once, then unexpectedly moving, and now moving again. With everything going on and then we’ve been taking care of a sick family member, and with all of it, I’ve been really finding that physically I’m strong, but mostly emotionally I’ve been really up against it. Turning to the tools that I’ve learned from all our guests has really helped me and keeping an open mind. That I don’t have all the answers. I have so many answers, but I’m always open to learning more.

I’ve actually spoken with one of our past guests who’s a fantastic Ph.D. in psychology. He and I have spoken and he encouraged me to find counseling around post-traumatic stress. I am going to find some great interviews for that because emotional health is as important as physical health. If you only have one but not the other, you really don’t have both because emotional stress affects us physically, and then physical stress affects us emotionally. We have to have both. Listen to these episodes, listen to the podcast, take all these tools from all these different wonderful experts, continue to learn, and continue to have the mentality that no one has all the answers, but that we can continue to grow and apply all these wonderful tools that we learn.

Now, Dr. Michael Haley today shares some fantastic tools that you’ll be able to apply to your life starting today to improve your health. When we improve our physical health, we also start to improve our emotional health as well as our mental health, and it gives us confidence that we get to continue to grow and strengthen.

Continue sharing this podcast with those you care about and continue listening. Join the Learn True Health Facebook group. I’d love to see you there. Thank you for being on this journey with me. I really dream, hope, and wish for you to learn true health, to really feel it in your body, and find what true health is for you. Enjoy today’s interview.


[00:08:26] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 474. I am so excited to have back on the show Dr. Michael Haley. When he first came on the show episode 401, we discussed the healing benefits of medicinal aloe and how you can drink medicinal aloe gel to have amazing healing properties for gut inflammation, for helping heal the gut, but also throughout the body that women were noticing better hair and skin.

There were people who noticed that they were in less pain, it brings down inflammation, it basically helps put out the fire. If you think about sunburn on your skin and you put aloe on it, it helps bring down that inflammation, helps the body heal faster. But if you drink it, it does that on the inside as well. We had a great discussion on bringing down that gut inflammation and helping heal the gut.

Since that interview, I had an experience with your aloe gel, Dr. Haley, where my whole family had the stomach flu. I don’t want to give any nasty details but it was like coming out of everywhere. We were all very sick. I took your aloe gel, we started drinking it, and at the time my son was about four and all the symptoms immediately stopped. Nausea, the vomiting, everything had stopped. My son loved it. I can drink it but to get a four-year-old to drink it because it tastes like aloe. It’s not like, oh, this is amazing. It tastes like aloe. I added a little bit of stevia just to sweeten it a little bit and added some lime juice over ice and it is so delicious when you do that. My son loved it. He had such a great experience and to immediately stop the symptoms in their tracks of having gastritis in all of us.


[00:10:35] Dr. Michael Haley: That’s a beautiful thing.


[00:10:36] Ashley James: Yeah, it was amazing. To me, it should be something that’s in everyone’s freezer, and this is described in episode 401, how you guys grow it, fillet it right there, take the gel out, and then immediately freeze it and ship it frozen. So it is pure, it’s fresh, it’s unfiltered. Anything you buy in the store, I love how you described it, the process of buying aloe gel drink in the store. Any store you’re going to buy it from it’s going to be highly filtered, and a lot of the medicinal properties are removed in the process, whereas yours aren’t.

But I think it’s something that should be in everyone’s freezer for those times when you have a tummy upset. It’s so important, and I can just think of a lot of other applications like someone’s going through chemotherapy or someone’s recovering from IBS, someone’s recovering from the stomach flu-like we were. It had an immediate effect. It was wonderful.

A few weeks later, my son overheard a conversation about his school friend who was having constipation. I was on the speakerphone with my friend and he yelled, get him to drink aloe, it’s so good for the tummy. It was really cute.


[00:11:54] Dr. Michael Haley: I love it.


[00:11:55] Ashley James: Yeah, he was giving that advice to his friend. I love your aloe, and listeners can go to That takes them to a special that you give us where you give your cream as well as the frozen medicinal drink. Use coupon code [] for 10% off in addition to the special where you give us the cream for free, so thank you so much for doing that for us.

Today, I’m really excited because we’re going to dive into more about gut health. I love your perspective and I love how you teach gut health. I think even though it’s not necessarily a new topic, I think it’s a new topic for a lot of people. Especially how you approach it and how you teach it, I think it’s going to give people a perspective that really helps them understand and they’re going to be able to take actions today to increase the health of the microbiome and the health of their own gut. Welcome to the show. Welcome back, I should say.


[00:13:04] Dr. Michael Haley: Ashley, thank you so much for having me on your program here. I love what you just said. You have a child that is six years old that’s already changing lives, helping people know what they should do. That is amazing.


[00:13:19] Ashley James: Yeah, it’s really cute. I mean, he hangs out with me so much that he hears me giving advice on health, and then he’s like, yeah, this aloe drink is so good. It’s so good for your tummy.


[00:13:33] Dr. Michael Haley: It’s funny too because people ask me, does it help with constipation? Does it help with diarrhea? Well, it doesn’t really treat either of those but people that are experiencing those tend to move towards the middle, more normal. It helps things to work more like they’re supposed to. But because you mention that, I do have to tell people, be careful. Meaning, we’re talking about the inside of the aloe leaf. There are products out there that contain the outside of the aloe leaf, and people specifically seek that out because they want the laxative effect on the outer leaf. 

You really have to know what products you’re getting and know the difference between whole leaf and inner leaf. Don’t think that, oh, well, it’s coming out all ends, I have diarrhea. I’m going to take the whole leaf and make it better. Oh, you’re not. It’s going to get worse.


[00:14:32] Ashley James: I had that experience. I was really into aloe drinking back when I was in my early 20s, so this is like 20 years ago. Kind of crazy to think that that was so long ago, but I had switched over from eating a really healthy diet to eating the standard American diet. I was in Canada so it was basically just a standard Canadian diet, which at the time was probably just as bad or slightly less bad. I was dating a guy and I was just going to eat what he was eating, and I thought he was eating a good diet because he was a black belt and he was very physically active. So I started eating pizza and Subway sandwiches and just rebelling from my healthy childhood. I got heartburn and I never had heartburn before. So I had no idea how to deal with it, and so I started taking whatever antacids there were.

One day, there was a Naturopathic physician on the TV. I’m pretty sure I was about 19 or 20 actually or just turning 20. She said that stomach acid is coming up into your esophagus not because you have too much acid, it’s because you have too little and your lower esophageal sphincter can’t close because it’s triggered by acid. The acid has to get strong enough for it to want to close. What we need to do is increase the acid. She talked about drinking aloe and she talked about drinking apple cider vinegar.

 I sought out some aloe and I had that experience where I drank a whole aloe plant. I found the whole aloe plant, ground up into a bottle, and that’s when I learned very quickly that you don’t just haphazardly buy whatever aloe is on the market and drink it because the outer shell and filament definitely has the properties of irritating the gut and making you have very bad diarrhea. However, when you get just the gel, which is what you sell, it has a calming effect and it’s wonderful. It’s so wonderful.


[00:16:37] Dr. Michael Haley: For those people hearing this and thinking, oh, well I have constipation, maybe I should try some whole leaf aloe vera. I’m going to caution against that too. Yes, it will loosen things up, but that’s not how you fix constipation. You want to look at your diet and say, do I have enough fiber? Am I drinking enough water? Is there enough fat, which might provide lubrication? Am I eating an alive diet, a probiotic-rich diet, or am I eating chemicals that are killing off my gut flora? Do I need to chew my food better, or am I digesting it properly? Do I need digestive enzymes? We stand back and say, what’s causing this? Let’s not take something to just loosen the bowels, and that’s the experience that you had, unfortunately.


[00:17:25] Ashley James: It was a good lesson to learn. The number one cause or at least the first thing to look for in constipation is dehydration. Then if you go for something like excessive magnesium or drinking a whole aloe, you’re irritating the gut and then you’re going to end up losing more water, so it’s going to be a vicious cycle of further dehydration. The first thing to do is to make sure you’re getting 100 ounces of water a day spread out throughout the day, and like you said, look at your fiber. Make sure you’re eating enough fiber from plants.

Apples are a really good source of fiber because it has soluble and insoluble, and I know that Dr. Natasha—who I’ve had on the show and who has been one of your teachers—loves apples for their very gentle prebiotic properties as well.


[00:18:20] Dr. Michael Haley: I agree. I would say that if you don’t tolerate raw apples, bake them. There are so many good things that we can include in our diet to reverse constipation or diarrhea, to normalize, to make things work like they’re supposed to.

Now, it’s funny because you had a wonderful experience with aloe vera a couple of years back as you described, and sometimes, I do cheat. Meaning, I have a patient that has problems like that and I just give them aloe. I say, here, and they say, wow, we’re doing so much better. 

Now that I have your attention, let’s fix things because quite frankly, if I take the aloe vera away, the problem might come right back. Or if you’re still doing the things that you did that got you there—in your case, it was some kind of stomach virus you have gotten, but for most people that are having these irritable bowel conditions and we put out the fire with aloe vera and they’re doing so much better on day three, well your chronic irritable bowel condition, if I take that aloe vera away from you, your problem is going to come right back because all we did is temporarily speed up the healing, but we haven’t slowed down the damage. We need to slow down the damage. Let’s see what’s causing the damage.

That’s actually the most important part of the equation is what is going in through your mouth causing this and it could be other things. It could be mental stress and everything else that contributes to this, but for the most part and the easiest fix is putting healthy foods and keeping out the poisons. There’s more to it than that, we’re going to talk about it. I love the fact that, oh, okay. As long as I eat a healthy diet, then we don’t change our eating habits, and we’re stuffing it down and swallowing it whole. No, there’s more to it.


[00:20:21] Ashley James: So you got to take that healthy food and then you got to chew it. There’s a difference between cooking food and raw food. My understanding is that if you, for example, cook an apple versus raw apple or cooked broccoli versus raw broccoli, it actually changes the fiber a bit so it feeds a different set of microbiomes.


[00:20:44] Dr. Michael Haley: I would agree with that. I wouldn’t know specifics on it, but yes, it’s going to soften things and almost be like a pre-digested easier, which means probably some microbes would be able to process it easier and others probably want what they feed best on. It does make sense because we have such a variety in our microbiome, such a diverse microbiome with all kinds of different organisms in this wonderful community working together to do what they’re supposed to.


[00:21:16] Ashley James: You have a great way of explaining or painting the picture of gut health and how we can look at the gut in a new light. Can we touch on that?


[00:21:28] Dr. Michael Haley: Before talking about the gut and what’s inside it—the soil of our intestines—let’s consider what’s out in the soil outdoors. Some of the problems that damage the food that we’re consuming, and then we’re going to tie it in with the gut and it’s going to all make perfect sense. For those of us that are growing our own food, we know that if we have dead soil, the only way to really get things to grow in it is to add fertilizers. Well, what killed the soil, to begin with?

Maybe it’s pesticides, herbicides, or fungicides—things that are used to try to control what’s growing around our vegetation but it kills, those things are forms of antibiotics. They’re against life. Pesticides, herbicides, fungicides are designed to kill and they’re not very specific. The same things that kill weeds can kill microbiology. In that soil, it’s life that makes that soil nutritious for the things that grow in it.

If you think about it, there are bacteria and fungus in the soil. Those things are probably being eaten by things a little bit bigger than them such as protozoa and other larger microorganisms that are probably being consumed by worms. I used to have chickens, they would eat worms. Birds would eat worms. Frogs will eat smaller things than themselves and bigger things will eat them like alligators might eat the birds and the frogs. 

All of these things up the whole chain are consuming and pooping. Literally, it’s the poop that is the soil. That’s the life. It’s nourishing. It’s pre-digested. It’s taking dead matter, recycling it by giving it life for a period of time, and it gets pooped out and it becomes this nutritious soil. The life that lives in it releases the nutrients so that when the roots of trees, bushes, or whatever you have growing in it, as they’re tapped into this poop into this soil, they absorb the nutrients that that life has released.

Now, if that life was not in the soil, if we had killed it off, the farmers have to use fertilizers for the vegetation to grow big and juicy or whatever they’re trying to create. It’s the same way in our intestines. A tree has these big roots that you see going into the soil. If you were to dig them up, you would see they branch off into secondary roots. They branch off into these tertiary routes with little fine hairs tapping into that rich soil.

Well, let’s start off with the poop. Let’s say they’re filled with poop. We have this tube that has these big folds in it, which are like the primary roots. Coming off of those big villi are these microvilli, which are pointed in the other direction increasing the surface area of our intestines so they can absorb more. That’s like your secondary roots with little filaments perpendicular to them, which are like the tertiary roots. These are the roots of our intestines sinking into the soil of our intestines so they can absorb the nutrients, so that our body can live. Our body is much like a tree or like something growing out in the fields tapping into soil to absorb the nutrients.

Now, who makes the soil nutrient-rich outside? We talked about the microbes. It starts with the bacteria, the fungus, the protozoa, and up the chain to the larger animals that are pooping out all of the smaller things down the chain from them. It’s the same way in our intestines. We have bacteria that have a very purposeful function and even fungus which got a function in our intestines. People think, oh, I have a fungus infection. I got to kill it off. It’s probably there for a reason.

I believe it was Dr. Natasha McBride. I think I read it in one of her books. She was saying that the fungus is there to, I believe, clean up heavy metal toxicity. Oh, no, they may have heavy metal toxicity and they’re multiplying so they can consume it. When they’re done with their job, their numbers will decrease. Well, that’s an interesting concept because we always think, I have an overgrowth of this particular bacteria. I have C. diff, I got to kill it off. Let me take some antibiotics or something like that.

Well, we probably all have fungus, C. diff, and all of these different bacteria that we’re trying to kill off with antibiotics, with medicines, but we’re in different balances. Some of us have a healthy balance and some of us have an out of balance. What’s causing that out of balance? Instead of letting me try to balance it with chemistry that’s going to do more than just damage to that particular fungus or bacteria, let me figure out what’s going wrong here. Am I consuming unhealthy food full of metals? Am I consuming toxic substances that might be throwing things out of balance?

That’s how we have to start thinking about our food. We have to think about that soil inside our intestines. When we eat, we’re making soil. We’re chewing it up so that the smaller things can eat it. Imagine if you just swallow your food whole, what are the bacteria going to do with that? It only has about a day to work with it. Maybe 12 hours, actually, if people’s digestion is really moving quickly and functioning well as it’s passing through. We’ve got to think about not feeding us. We have to feed them because they’re the ones that are digesting the food for us.

It’s a whole different perspective. Imagine sitting down to dinner tonight, you already made sure that you put healthy food on the plate, and you put that first bite in your mouth. If you’re thinking about your babies inside you, if you’re thinking about those microbes as being essential for your health and that you’re feeding them, are you going to just swallow or are you going to chew it and prepare it for them? Because really, you should love them because your life is dependent on them.

We’re probably 80% gut flora, 20% human cells. Actually, we’re probably less than that human cells. If we’re 80% gut flora and we also have flora in our ears, our mouths, and in our organs everywhere, they’re probably taking up some more percentage of the leftover remaining 20. We’re a shell for this microflora to live in, and quite frankly, they’re making a lot of the decisions for us.


[00:29:43] Ashley James: Yes, I was just about to say, I’ve read the research where they’ve seen that your microbiome will produce chemicals that are like neuro receptors received by the neurons and can sway you, sway your decision making to feed them. If you have an overgrowth of candida, for example, they actually hijack the brain and make you crave those foods that feed the candida more, that feed the imbalance more. 

On top of having been stimulated by highly addictive processed foods that are designed to trigger your dopamine, your serotonin, designed to override your critical faculty and hijack your brain, then you’ve got the microbiome. If it’s really out of balance, it’s going to tell you to continue to eat those bad foods because it feeds them. If you’ve fostered a really healthy, strong, robust, good, and balanced microbiome, it will also send out chemicals asking for the kale, asking for the baked apple, and asking for the foods that feed it.


[00:31:08] Dr. Michael Haley: This is so critical and we’re just beginning to understand it. Right now, I’m reading an interesting book by Dr. Jon Lieff. He’s an expert in cellular communications science. The book is called, The Secret Language of Cells. In it, he’s talking about how the immune cells communicate with each other and how they travel throughout the body. Somehow, I believe that our gut flora is communicating with our immune system. We know that the majority of our immune system is in our guts, and it’s directing all of these things, helping our bodies make decisions too on what balance of gut flora we should have and when we should let a certain one proliferate and kill off another one. It kind of keeps everything in check for us if we are giving it what it needs.

We can absolutely give it the wrong things, the chemicals that wipe it out. They can’t do a whole lot when we’re filling them up with antibiotics, and when I say antibiotics, I’m talking about anything that’s against light. Whether it’s chlorine in the water, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides in the food, or preservatives in the food. The preservatives which are there to kill things so that life cannot grow in the food. They’re chemicals, they’re antibiotics in the food put there intentionally to make the food uninhabitable. Well, how is our microbiome going to consume that food and stay healthy?

Any artificial colors, artificial flavors, hydrogenated oils are very antibiotic in the sense. They hydrogenate these things to make the food last longer, a form of preservation. We need to be eating real clean foods that are there to nourish our gut flora, not punish it.


[00:33:06] Ashley James: I agree. Can we dive into what foods you’ve seen have the greatest healing properties? Let’s say we have listeners who know they have gut issues right now. I have a friend I’m thinking about who I’m going to ask to listen to this one and she has had chronic constipation her entire life. Her parents had her on antibiotics. Her parents were giving her some kind of Imodium or something as a child. Her parents just didn’t know. They didn’t know how to help their child have a healthy bowel movement. She would go days and days and days without going to the bathroom, and it’s always been so painful for her.

Well, here she is now an adult and she still is having this problem even though she’s changed her diet. She’s eating really healthy. She’s really focusing on hydration and all the things for her gut health, taking probiotics, eating fermented foods, and it’s still chronic constipation. I’ve been throwing all this information at her and she’s just got this big question like, why do I still have it?

Of course, I think emotional work is important to do as well. Something I’ve talked to her about like Emotion Code is really great for something like that when you’ve tried everything and there’s still something stuck in the body. But for those listeners who know they have gut issues, maybe they have chronic something else like heartburn, if it’s gas, bloating, they feel like maybe they have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or fungal overgrowth. They are listeners who have had it for a really long time and they need to get something moving. They need some guidance to—like you said, you get your patients on aloe, and then they have a leg up. They’ve gotten some improvement and then you’re like, okay, now we need to make the changes. 

I recommend everyone drink aloe because at least, then they get some movement in the right direction and then they start feeling good. It’s like, okay, now let’s make more changes. What changes should people make who’ve had chronic gut issues and really are motivated to heal but need some direction?


[00:35:31] Dr. Michael Haley: The first thing we have to recognize is that absolutely, everybody is different. As an example, I have an Italian heritage. A lot of people can’t eat gluten. I could. I could snort gluten and be fine. I don’t and I minimize it in my diet because I do know that it’s inflammatory, and if I consume too much of it, I might mess things up. I know that the bread has more gluten in it than it used to. Being a former bread maker, I understand that. We want a lot of gluten. It really makes this stretchy dough. It’s so delicious, but that will ruin people.

As I’m talking about certain things, it’s not a formula for everybody. You have to work within what works well for you. You can take ideas from me and you can try them, but maybe keep a Food Mood Poop Journal. What’s that? Well, a food journal where I eat it and I’m going to document things like my mood, my bowel function, and how I feel. Do things hurt, am I thinking clearly, am I edgy, or do I feel great? Because how you eat affects these things.

As you keep that little journal, you figure out which foods work for you. But if we were addressing constipation specifically, I would say, okay, here are some of the things that we need to think about. When I mention certain foods, it doesn’t mean you need to include these. I make a 2 ½ gallon batch of yogurt every week for me and my family. Dairy might not be right for you. Maybe you want to try it out of nut milk and the whole concept of any yogurt might not work for you. We have to journal to figure these things out.

Number one, chew your food because remember, you’re not feeding you, you’re feeding them. You’re feeding that gut flora and you need to break that food up and pre-digest it for them so that they can have something to work with. As you’re chewing, you’re working in the saliva, and you have these digestive enzyme-type things working into the food that’ll help break it down even further. How many times should you chew it? Jordan Rubin used to say to chew your food 50 times before you swallow. Now, I tried that, and by the time I get to 50, there is nothing left to swallow. But think about how well things would be prepared for them.

Drink a lot of water, especially if you’re eating a lot of fiber. If you’re tolerating fiber well, that is something that needs to be included when you have constipation. You have to make sure you have enough fiber, you have to make sure you have enough water. If you’re consuming fiber without water, you’re actually going to almost make a cement plug in your bowels so it’s going to go the other direction. As you’re eating fiber-rich foods, you’re drinking a lot of water, and they soak up. The fiber soaks up that water and it not only helps cleanse your bowels and it helps provide bulk that moves through well, it stimulates peristalsis, so you start stimulating that very thing that you’re looking for to get things moving through.

When we talk about live food, it’s funny. People say, oh, well, if you cook it, it’s dead and all the enzymes are dead. First of all, I never knew that enzymes have ever actually had real life, but they could be denatured. There’s a good balance between cooked food and raw food, but when I think of live food, I’m thinking about food that is good food for the life that I’m feeding, which is that bacteria inside me. So it is going to be chemical-free. It’s going to be real food. It’s going to be chewed well, and it might even be probiotic, it might even be cultured because remember, the bacteria eat things that are produced by other bacteria.

As soon as you eat that probiotic food, it might die in your stomach acids. But that cultured pre-digested food that happens when I’m making yogurt, it’s pre-digesting the milk, the dairy, turning it into more nutrients that my gut flora can feed off of. It’s pre-digesting it. When I’m making sauerkraut, if I just eat raw cabbage and swallow it whole versus culture it and turn it into sauerkraut which releases all of these nutrients and enzymes, and then I chew it up really good and swallow that, I’m feeding them well.

We’ve got chew your food, fiber, water, probiotics, which is either cultured food or if you’re going to buy a good probiotic, and take them to help nourish that gut flora.

Digestive enzymes. Yes, when we chew, we’re working in our own digestive enzymes. Some people do need a little help or their food doesn’t have enough enzymes in it. There are digestive enzymes in a lot of foods. Aloe vera has a lot of naturally occurring digestive enzymes. 

But for someone that’s having a challenge, they might want to try consuming digestive enzymes in their diet. Things like amylase is a digestive enzyme that helps break down carbohydrates. Lipase will help break down fats and protease. Well, there’s more than just those three. You can get a complex enzyme formula. Usually, it comes in a capsule and they really help get things moving. When people have that, it feels like their food is just sitting there. They ate and it’s just not moving and they can’t sleep at night. A lot of times within 15, 20 minutes of taking a digestive enzyme, that relief that you were looking for is there as it starts breaking down the food.

I’ll never forget the demonstration I had by someone where they made a bowl of oatmeal. In this case, they opened up one of those capsules of green powder, fruit and vegetable powder, that had digestive enzymes in it. That cooked bowl of oatmeal liquefied in the bowl within about 10 minutes from sprinkling the digestive enzymes on it.


[00:42:14] Ashley James: Cool.


[00:42:14] Dr. Michael Haley: Yeah, it goes right to work. There are a lot of brands out there, they pretty much work. It’s impressive. They work, they help. Something to try if you’re having that problem. And then, a lot of people don’t eat enough fat. Why do we have this fear of fat? Fat is not only very satisfying and will help us control our appetite to where we’re not eating and craving some of those bad things, but it’s also a form of lubrication in our bowels that can help things move through easier.

When it comes to constipation specifically, I don’t know if I forgot any of this off the top. I hope I didn’t forget anything. Those are the major ones—the chew the food, the fiber, the water, the fat, and the probiotics.


[00:43:13] Ashley James: I just got into this habit about a year ago or maybe closer to two years ago. I eat an avocado for breakfast with sprouts—I sprout myself—and sauerkraut. All organic. I mean, a whole avocado, it’s a lot of fat. It’s also a good amount of fiber. It’s very satiating, and oftentimes, I’m not hungry again until 2:00 PM, and I go what? I’ve calculated it. I don’t think calories are anywhere near the most important thing to look at. I think calories was sold to us by the dieting industry, and it does a great disservice just to focus on calories alone because really, the macronutrients, it’s more important to understand your ratios and understand 500 calories of food really means nothing because it could be chocolate cake, it could be broccoli, it could be an apple, right?

Measuring the calories doesn’t inform you of the nutrition and the healing properties of your food. But just as a point of measurement, it was about 700 calories, my breakfast, when I calculated it, and I wouldn’t eat again until 2:00 or 3:00 PM. I just thought, that’s really interesting that that level of fat, because that’s the most fat I get from my diet is from my avocado or from beans as well, which some beans have a considerable amount of fat and fiber. I found that when I eat foods that have fiber and fat like beans and avocado or a handful of nuts, I’m satiated the most,

Now, I wouldn’t go overboard, eat nuts, beans, or eat avocado all day long, but just make sure it’s in my diet. When I’ve tweaked my diet to not have any foods with fat, I have noticed that I’m definitely more hungry. I definitely have to eat more often throughout the day. I’m just not feeling satiated. That’s right, the fiber and the fat together bring that satiety, and it also really helps, like you said, lubrication within the bowels.


[00:45:46] Dr. Michael Haley: Yeah. It sounds like we eat alike a lot too. I love my avocados, love my homegrown sprouts. I’ll probably sprinkle a little Herbamare on there and douse it with some olive oil because I like that extra fat, but it’s tremendously, tremendously satisfying. We’ve always got the sprouts growing in our little jar in the sink, you mix them up, and they all have all kinds of different flavors. Some of the bean sprouts have a nice even oniony type flavor.


[00:46:18] Ashley James: Oh, yeah. I have a sprouting mix that I do sometimes that is spicy. I don’t know what it is because there are like five different things, but it is spicy. Maybe it’s the clove and my son’s like, whooo, this is spicy. It has such a delicious flavor. My microbiome craves it because it tells me.

I didn’t used to like kale, for example, and then I started to eat, I started to eat it, and then all of a sudden I started to have the Pavlovian response where I’d be like salivating when I’d think about eating kale. That was definitely my microbiome sending those signals to my brain. We want more of that food, give us more of that, feed us more of that. I can really tell that my body craves the sprouts, which are so chock-full of vitamins. It’s something like 700 times the amount of vitamin C once you take a seed and then sprout it. 

I have a little bit of a different way of sprouting. I soak half a cup of the seeds overnight between 12 and 24 hours, usually closer to 12, and then I put it in a colander in a bowl, and then I put it in a warm dark place which is like my oven is a good example, as long as the oven’s not on. And then I water it twice a day and strain it. It grows in the colander in the bowl, and within five days I’ve got this huge, huge amount of sprouts. I do that two to three times a week. 

I tried the jar method. I don’t know if it’s because of the Pacific Northwest where I live, it just got soggy and died. I think it’s just too moist here to sprout things really well in the jar, but in an open colander, it seemed to do really well. I just think that’s because of the humidity here. It’s really easy to sprout. I was afraid at first when I didn’t know, and then I had some guests on the show and I started learning about it. It’s like, okay, I’m going to give this a try, and then it was ridiculously easy. It’s very hard to screw up. I screwed up a few times, but really, even if you forget to water it, it still grows. It’s going to be okay, it’s going to sprout, and it’s so delicious.

Of course, I’ve had Tim James on the show and he says that about 70% of all his daily food is what he grows in his house. That is so phenomenal, this idea that we could grow really vitamin dense, vitamin-rich foods just on our window sill or in a dark place. It depends on what you’re doing. If you’re sprouting or if you’re doing microgreens, you can grow food that’s fresh. I’m so jealous of you, you could walk outside and pick an avocado. I’d love to get a fresh avocado right from a tree, but I can’t. I can’t grow fresh food in the wintertime here in the Pacific Northwest. I grow my own sprouts and then I’m getting fresh food.


[00:49:20] Dr. Michael Haley: Yeah, that’s a beautiful thing. We love taking our sprouts. We’ll sprout some chickpeas and make some hummus. Maybe mix those into the sprouts and maybe wrap them in collard greens and have one of those all vegetable type burritos where the hummus really holds everything together. Now it’s funny though because one of the things you asked me is, what should somebody eat to get well? As we’re talking so much about fruits, vegetables, and sprouts, we haven’t really talked about animal foods.

When I have people that have gut problems and they’re not eating animal foods, they are the most difficult to get well. Dr. Natasha McBride talks about the fact that our stomachs can really only digest meat, dairy, fish, and eggs. I believe she’s talking about the acidity there because that’s really where we do the digesting. And then, once it goes into our small intestines and starts moving down the path into the large intestine, that’s where the microbiome takes over and does the digesting. They can work on the fruits, vegetables, sprouts, and all those things that we’re eating, but our stomachs really were made to digest animal foods.

Now, why do we need so many more fruits and vegetables now more than ever before? I remember talking to Gabriel Cousens probably seven or eight years ago, and he was talking about adapting with the Earth. We have more toxins now on the earth than ever before. At the time, he had mentioned the fact that Fukushima was still spewing radiation everywhere, and I bet you it still is. He talked about it being measurable even in the grasslands in the central US. Wow, all the way from the other side of the world there and it’s in our grasslands.

Pollution and toxicity are everywhere. One of the functions of phytonutrients is to help cleanse and detoxify the body. Well, shouldn’t I be getting those same nutrients from the animal foods? Yes, we should. But the foods that they’re eating don’t have as many in it as they used to because things are growing differently now. With the toxic planet, we have less nutritious fruits and vegetables, it’s just the way it is. 

An evidence of that, by the way, organic fruits and vegetables are demonstrated to have 40 to 60% more nutrients than inorganic, but we know that even organic is not grown like it was in the Garden of Eden or we’ll say a couple of thousand years ago, before the Industrial Revolution. Things have changed on this planet.

Gabriel Cousens was talking about adapting and consuming more of these things, really as a way of surviving. Not that our bodies were only made for vegetation, I think that would be a poor argument because they’re not, but consuming more of that probably makes sense. Take nutrients like lutein, zeaxanthin, and phytonutrients that we would get from even algae. Well, when the fish eat those, they become part of them, and then we might instead of calling them phytonutrients or plant nutrients, we might call them zoonutrients, but it’s the same nutrient.

We can get these important phytonutrients from eating animal foods, it’s just hard to, especially when all of the animals are fed grains instead of grasses. If they are fed grasses, they’re probably not as nutritious as they used to be. 

When we start thinking about our diet, I agree with what Gabriel Cousens said that we do have to adapt and think, where can I get the most nutrients, and how can I prepare these nutrients for my microbiome as I’m feeding them? How do I save them, make sure they don’t get the chemicals, they’re getting good nutritious food? How do I get the important nutrients from animal foods if I’m not consuming them? How do I get my fat-soluble vitamins? My A, D, and K. Where do I get my B12 from if I’m not consuming animal foods? Probably better off consuming a balance of both.

Animal foods that do have nutrients like collagen and stuff like that that helps heal not only your joints, but your gut, and phytonutrients from not only your animal foods but also from fruits, vegetables, things that grow on the Earth, the sprouts. Lately, I’ve been loving eating algae even, which is that first food.


[00:54:54] Ashley James: Yes. I have about seven episodes on algae and using chlorella and spirulina in healing. It’s so wonderful because the protein is in the most absorbable form in chlorella and spirulina. Within minutes of eating it, you’re absorbing it. You’re getting vitamin K, you’re getting some great vitamins, some trace minerals, but the green nutrients that you’re getting, it’s so condensed. I’m a big fan of algae, especially for heavy metals using chlorella.

Dr. Klinghardt, on the show, who helps the children who present with symptoms as if they were on the spectrum. After going through a heavy metal detox that he guides them through no longer present with symptoms. He gets children coming in who are banging their heads against the wall, rocking themselves, hitting their head because they’re in so much pain that their brain is on fire from the heavy metals. They’re unable to talk. They’re not doing eye contact and they’re nonverbal. It can take years, but after his program, these children are looking you in the eye, speaking with you, calm, happy in their own body, content.

Because he’s been doing this for over 40 years, he says he has children who came to him like that who are now composers, Ph.D.s. He’s so proud of all of his patients, but he uses chlorella with the children that he works with, in addition to many other things. It’s a gentle chelator of heavy metals. 

There’s a caveat. You can’t just eat any chlorella because most of them on the market are cracked with lead balls or cracked with marbles that contain lead. You want the kind that is cracked with a different method. That’s why I like ENERGYbits. There are two companies that I really like and ENERGYbits taste better, I don’t know why. The other company that Dr. Klinghardt uses tastes really fishy to me. I don’t know if it’s just sitting there more, stale, or fishy, but it had like a fish smell to it. And it shouldn’t, but the ENERGYbits doesn’t have that. I really like ENERGYbits. 

I’ve had Catharine Arnston, the founder of ENERGYbits, on the show about seven times. She does give a coupon code, which is LTH, and a lot of listeners have reported that they also love the ENERGYbits, the chlorella and the spirulina.

Now, in terms of animal food, I’ve had so many doctors on the show share about how the plant-based diet is incredibly healing, especially for diabetes and heart disease. That they see amazing results helping people to even reverse blockages in the heart. What I also like to say on the show is we don’t have diet dogma here. We’re not going to just go okay plant-based diet 100% and we’re nothing else because the moment we shut our brains off—even though it has great results and I just see the tremendous benefits these doctors have and I myself have had fantastic results with healing things in my body using the whole food plant-based diet.

However, we can’t buy into diet dogma because then we’re shutting ourselves off from other things that could help us heal. So if we look at food as a tool, when do we pick up the tool of whole food plant-based? When would we pick up the tool of bone broth? Dr. Natasha McBride, who I’ve had on the show, shares how she helps heal the gut in children who are so distressed that their bodies are so broken.

So much so that they also present with autism symptoms, and when she gets them eating the GAPS diet, they heal their gut because of the gut-brain connection. As a result, their brain also heals, the inflammation comes down there, and then they present with much fewer symptoms of a being on the spectrum, or in some cases, they get off the spectrum altogether just from diet. One of the primary things that she uses is bone broth. These are tools and I just want to say that I really value the whole food plant-based diet, and we have to keep an open mind because if there’s a tool that could heal you but if we’re buying into diet dogma, then we’re unable to see that tool. I just want to say that I love the whole food plant-based diet, and if I was dying and bone broth would save me, I would drink it. We can’t just shut off all of the tools. 

However, we should eat an informed diet. We should really listen to our body, eat an informed diet because the standard American diet is just go out and eat lots of meat, eat lots of fried food, get lots of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, get a ton of fried potatoes in you. 

Sixty-seven percent of the consumed calories that adolescents have—there’s a study out of Canada—is from the four food groups that are causing obesity. This is documented that it’s fried potato, gluten flour, high fructose corn syrup, and high fat milk products. Those four categories are the biggest reason why we have obesity and processed food addiction. Children and adolescents are eating 67% of their diet from those four food groups alone.

When we eat uninformed, we just eat whatever we want, and we let the addictive substances control us, the processed food. We’re not eating in a healthy way whatsoever. But when we use food as a tool, so you’re preparing bone broth for the collagen or you’re eating homemade applesauce or homemade plant-based yogurt or dairy yogurt, if that’s what you choose. If you’re being intentional with these tools, then you are working towards healing the gut

I just want to say, no diet dogma, but we’re going to take in the information and look at food as a tool.


[01:02:00] Dr. Michael Haley: I like what you said there and I want people to also look at it from a perspective of sometimes it sounds dogmatic and it’s not, meaning it comes from a certain perspective. I was lucky enough to be taught by Dr. Natasha McBride. I remember when she came to I think it was in Chicago and I spent a few days in class with her, she’s very big on bone broth, whether it be beef stock or chicken stock, but she is focused on healing guts for the sake of well GAPS gut and psychology syndrome and also physiology syndrome. Those are the two P’s—psychology and physiology.

But I did ask her and I remember her answer even though it was seven or eight years ago. I said well, what about if it was someone with cancer? She said, well, these are growth foods, not necessarily the best thing for someone with cancer. They need cleansing, detoxing food, which is going to be your plant-based diet. She even recognized. She might seem dogmatic about including animal foods, but she’s focused on healing the gut. In other words, it’s the right tool for the right job. In the case of cancer, your emphasis is going to be plant-based. She specifically used the word, animal foods are growth foods. I look at a growth food, my favorite example, if I was in the NFL playing line, I’d probably want maximum growth foods. It doesn’t mean it’s the most anti-cancer diet.

A lot of times we hear people that sound so dogmatic, but if we realize where their emphasis is coming from and what their expertise is—weight loss, that’s a whole different emphasis.

[01:04:15] Ashley James: Right. Using food as a tool. If I had heart disease, I would be going to Dr. Esselstyn and following the plant-based diet because he’s got great results. If I had massive gut issues, I would go to Dr. McBride because she has a fantastic track record with the GAPS diet. If I hadn’t been able to heal it with anything else, I’d definitely go to her.

I have a friend who almost died and the GAPS diet saved her life. She loves Dr. McBride so much, just loves her so much. She says, this woman is a miracle worker. I was on death’s door and her diet saved me. This is a dear friend of mine, so I had to look at that and go, okay. It seems like a paradox, right? How could something that reverses heart disease so clearly and reverses type 2 diabetes, this diet—the whole food plant-based diet—be so different from Dr. McBride’s diet, and yet both of them heal and save lives.

Food is a tool, and we have to know what tools we’re putting in our body to feed the six pounds of microbiome in our gut. Six pounds, it’s crazy to think. We really do have like a little koala bear. I like to think of a little chihuahua or something. We are feeding an animal inside our gut. However many trillion cells this is, they poop out nutrients that we absorb, and so we need to feed it. We need to know what to feed it and when defeated to support it.

It’s a really big thing to wrap our brains around. When you say take into account and take note of, journal, can you give us some guidance on how we can listen to our bodies? I feel like sometimes people are a bit overwhelmed. It’s like, well, where do we even start? So where do we start?


[01:06:26] Dr. Michael Haley: It’s funny, I stole the name of the journal from David and Karla [inaudible 01:06:30] just the other day, but the concept I took from Dr. Natasha McBride being the food journal, and imagine just a piece of paper with three columns on it. It’s really easy. The first column is the time and day stamp. Right now, it’s whatever day at such and such a time. The second column is what you ate, and sometimes in some of these entries, column two is going to be blank because the third column is how you feel. Sometimes, you’re making a day and timestamp and you’re going to enter what you ate, other times it’s going to be how you feel. Sometimes it’s going to be both. I’m eating this and I feel great, or I’m eating this and I don’t feel good.

The most important part of this is patterns and let me use a real good example. My father the other day, I went to see him in the hospital. It seemed like he was having a stroke of some kind. My first question was, well, what medicines are you taking? Is it possible you took the same medicines twice? Had he been documenting we would have known. After all kinds of exams for two or three days of this, we realize that actually, one of his medications got changed and in his case, it was too much high blood pressure medicine, which means his brain wasn’t getting enough oxygen, so he had confusion and dizziness.

What we’re consuming and how do we feel? Well, we noticed a pattern by day two or three, and that was that when he took his medications, a couple of hours after, he would get groggy, confused, and dizzy, and then several hours later, he would start coming back to normal. That was a pattern that we established in a couple of days, and we actually realized one of his doctors made a little mistake and instead of cutting his blood pressure medicine in half, he doubled it. That was the mistake causing the problems, lowering his blood pressure too much.

We were able to track that by making a note of what time he took what and what happened to him symptomatically. That feel section is not only because we called it a Food Mood Poop Journal. It’s what you eat and at what time and it’s the mood, how are you feeling? I’m very clear-minded, I’m focused, or I’m confused. I’m supposed to do something, what was it? Oh, I just feel so scattered today. What have you been eating? The last time you felt scattered, what did you eat? We start developing these patterns.

The last time you were feeling really energetic, clear-minded, you’re sleeping well, and your bowel function is good, what foods were you eating? You start developing a list. This is my naughty list. I don’t want to eat these because they make me feel this way, I get constipation, I get diarrhea, or I get heartburn. These are foods that I feel great. My digestion is good. I’m clear-minded. I’m energetic. I love life. I’m happy. The foods that make you happy and your bowels function great are probably going to be different than the ones that do it for me.


[01:10:18] Ashley James: Another thing to note is that you got to really look at it for 24 to 48 hours. Food sensitivities can affect you and histamine. It might not hit you right away, it may not hit you within three hours because it depends on what immunoglobulin response you’re having. It can also be a build-up over time, right? Maybe you have an IgG response. Let’s say you’re allergic to oats, you had some for breakfast, you had some dinner, and then you had some for breakfast again, and then then the histamine gets to that tipping point where then you’re having the histamine symptoms, which can present differently for different people, but it could be asthma, runny nose, burning eyes, gut issues, skin issues. 

The behavior we have to really look at. So you said mood but also behavior. Are you yell or are you quick to frustration? Are you noticing your behavior? Sometimes it feels like I’m normal, but everyone else is pissing me off. It’s like, well, okay, then you’re really irritable. Your fuse, you have a short fuse. And then also looking at the next day. How did you wake up in the morning? Were you groggy and how is your energy and do you have to reach for the coffee or can you survive without coffee? 

I think it’s really important to remove the things that are suppressing your mood, right? So if things are suppressing you. Alcohol, caffeine, sugar—these are blocking your ability to listen to your body and really hear where it’s at. If you’re drinking coffee and drinking alcohol at night to “calm yourself” and then you’re eating sugar, you’re not really getting an accurate food mood journal because you’re masking the symptoms your body is telling you. I think it’s also important to look at that and consider doing a complete sugar fast, a complete sugar detox, and getting off of caffeine. 

It takes four to eight days to detox from sugar, so you got to get to day nine before you judge it, but you’re going to go through the withdrawals, right? A little bit of headache, achy, cranky, then day nine, it’s going to be like you’re coming out of the woods and you feel like a million bucks compared to how you did. When your body gives you symptoms, when you eat something and your body loves it versus eat something your body doesn’t love it, the signals are going to be so much clearer.

When I do blood sugar coaching with people, we monitor blood sugar along with the food mood journal because seeing that like, okay, what you ate for breakfast not only affects your day, but it can actually affect tomorrow. If you drank wine last night, it’s affecting you for the next 24 hours, and they can see it. It’s subjective versus objective, right? They see, okay, this external device is telling them, okay, this isn’t working for me. That meal wasn’t working for me, and then they can dial in the meals that are working for them.

Dr. William Davis who wrote the book, Wheat Belly, came on the show and he said that he thinks that every 100% of the population should have a glucometer and check in once in a while and check to see two hours after a meal, was that meal good for me? Because we’re not looking for diabetes, but we’re looking for how did your body react to that meal. Is it driven too high blood sugar, too low, or was it able to stabilize and come back to normal within two hours? Just check in with yourself because that would be a real reality check.

I like the food mood journal, and then I also like those sometimes external reality checks. Even putting on a little pulse ox on your finger and checking your pulse. A Naturopath told me, one of the ways to test for food sensitivities is to monitor your pulse after a meal. You got to be calm, take a few deep breaths, but if your pulse is really high, that’s a stimulant. Even though you have no stressors and you’re just chilling out and your pulse is really high afterward, then there’s something that your body is stressed out about from the meal you ate.

There are these little external ways like blood pressure and taking vitals to see how our body is responding to the foods. I love the idea of tracking it though because I don’t even remember what I ate yesterday. I’m trying to think, I don’t remember what I ate yesterday. I definitely don’t remember what I ate the day before.


[01:15:43] Dr. Michael Haley: it was sprouts and avocado.


[01:15:44] Ashley James: I definitely ate sprouts and avocado. I just ate my last avocado, so I’m not going to have it tomorrow unless I go get some groceries. I don’t remember what I ate for lunch yesterday. I might not have had lunch that’s probably why I don’t remember, but I don’t remember eight two days ago. But if I was thinking to myself, well, where did this rash come from or why do I feel so crummy? Well, if I didn’t write it down, then how can I track it? Every time I’m crummy, I’m going to go look back and be like, oh, every time I feel crummy it’s after I eat strawberries. Okay, I’m going to have to cut strawberries out to figure out what’s going on.


[01:16:19] Dr. Michael Haley: When you talk about the alcohol, the sugar cravings, and stuff, remember, we’re highly influenced by our gut flora. Something so simple like cultured foods or probiotics can even decrease those cravings for alcohol or sugar. Anyone that is struggling with those things, try it. It’s almost a calorie-free way of testing to see if you can decrease cravings. Wouldn’t that be awesome if you weren’t craving things that are harming you? That would be phenomenal.

I got to be a little transparent. I’m a little embarrassed to tell you this, but I’m going to because I think it’s going to benefit somebody that’s listening, probably a lot of people. The reason I’m embarrassed, and I have to preface and say, this is going back a good 25 years. I wasn’t the healthiest. I was like the one that you mentioned early in the show. I thought that it didn’t matter what I ate. I would just exercise into this beautiful physique of muscle and strength. You can’t do that. You only get away with that for so long. It’s not good for you.

I was drinking Diet Coke. I did not know why I had tinnitus. Eventually, I realized I needed to quit drinking Diet Coke, and it was a long time before tinnitus went away. I certainly did not know they were connected. I probably slipped up a few times, and I wondered, why is my tinnitus back? I remember one time when I drank Diet Coke and the next day I’m thinking, I have tinnitus again. I haven’t had this in so long. What is going on? It stuck with me for a few days and I started thinking about that. I wonder if it’s the Diet Coke?

Well, I realize it’s not only the Diet Coke that does it. It’s also Halloween candy. I don’t know which Halloween candy because it comes in and that’s the one day you cheat for the whole year, right? If you’re going to cheat, you’re all in. You got a big variety, might as well do it all. I haven’t figured out which of that mix that the kids would bring home, but now I haven’t had tinnitus in years because I recognize that these things make my ears ring. It doesn’t matter what the symptom is—pain, confusion, weakness, it could even be something like sciatica. There’s a good chance that your body chemistry, largely under the influence of your diet, is causing it.


[01:19:03] Ashley James: Yeah, that’s a big one. It is addictive. Even though there’s no sugar in diet soda, it still triggers the insulin response, which is so frustrating for those people who think they’re doing something healthy because it says diet. Also, if you leave diet soda—I think it’s aspartame that when you heat it up, it creates formaldehyde. If the diet soda in transit was in a hot place or you left it in the car and it was hot, you’re drinking formaldehyde. I don’t imagine that’s good for you either.

I also watched a documentary about aspartame a long time ago. 2008 or 2009, I watched this documentary about the hidden things about aspartame and how just awful it is. It’s a really interesting history though to look at aspartame, but certain military personnel was not allowed to drink it within a certain amount of time like one or two hours of flying certain military airplanes because it is a neurotoxin that limits reflexes. If you’re going Mach 4 you might screw up because you drank the diet soda. I mean, that’s really scary.

My husband who was a carpenter for 20 years (commercial carpenter), he could open up a blueprint and just understand it. I look at a blueprint, I’m like, what’s going on? But he could understand it and he could look at a room and basically, almost with his eyes, measure the room and know how much material he needed. He was really good at looking at blueprints and doing the math to figure out all the material needed.

Well, I was just getting into wanting to be healthier and I said, okay, I know you’re drinking Monster energy drinks, can you just switch to diet because sugar’s so bad for you? Well, he came home and he said, I couldn’t do math. I couldn’t do it. He goes, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I looked at the blueprint, I tried to do calculations after drinking two Diet Monster drinks and my brain shut off. I could not even do the math to do my job, so he just had to come home. That’s when we started looking into it, and this was a long time ago. We looked into aspartame and saw it is a neurotoxin and it does have links to causing MS. It also is really bad for the gut. I don’t know if you know that. It is the chemicals in diet sodas, particularly the sweeteners, that is very bad for the microbiome as well.


[01:21:48] Dr. Michael Haley: Yeah, I haven’t had a soda of any kind in many, many years. I know that for a moment there, I probably completely discredited everything I had set up to that point. It was years ago, okay. It was years ago.


[01:22:05] Ashley James: The living glass houses don’t throw stones. We’ve all been there, right? We want to get healthier. I love sharing my health journey because I’m definitely not perfect by any means. But look how much I’ve come. I’ve healed like five diseases. Look how far I’ve come, and I continue my journey. I also love helping people learn through my sharing of what’s possible.

What is possible is you can heal your body, your body can heal itself. You have an innate God-given ability to heal, and we just have to figure out what your body needs and what your body doesn’t need. Doctors will tell you that you can never get better and they’re not true. They might really believe what they say, they’re not trying to lie, but MDs are trained in a type of medicine. They’re not informed on how to heal the body. They will tell you, you can’t heal.

For example, you’ll have A-fib forever. My husband no longer has A-fib and it’s because of his chiropractor and his Naturopath. It’s not a heart condition if it is the kind of A-fib he had, which was impingement of a thoracic nerve. His Naturopath said, there’s nothing wrong with your heart. Your thoracic spine is impinging and causing you to have acute A-fib attacks every time we lift something heavy up. We went to a cardiologist and he was a candidate for a pacemaker. Thank God we didn’t go down that route, we went the holistic route, and he is healthy as a horse.

I reversed my polycystic ovarian syndrome. I was told by an endocrinologist and doctors that you can never reverse polycystic ovarian syndrome. You will have it for the rest of your life. All the women I talked to that have it say, well, I will have it forever. No. Just like type 2 diabetes, I reverse that. You don’t have to have it forever. All the things that you have, you don’t have to have forever. Your body becomes out of balance and you can bring your body back into balance. That’s why I think it’s so important to talk about the way you talk about good health. Think about it like you’re a gardener and you’re trying to feed the worms in your garden so that those worms could feed your plants, right? You’re trying to feed the healthy microbiome so the healthy microbiome feeds your body.


[01:24:39] Dr. Michael Haley: I’m kicking myself right now.


[01:24:41] Ashley James: Why?


[01:24:42] Dr. Michael Haley: You said something and it triggered a memory, and it’s like, ugh.


[01:24:47] Ashley James: Tell me the memory.


[01:24:50] Dr. Michael Haley: It belongs approximately 45 minutes ago in the story. We were talking about constipation and we talked about everything diet-related. You brought up chiropractic and I got to tell you about an early patient and I’m a new chiropractor. Charlie comes in with pain radiating down his leg and pain radiating down his arm. I remember taking an X-ray of his back and just seeing this like crooked lumbar, I think it was like his L2, It was just tilted to one side, didn’t look right, and I’m being a new chiropractor at the time—it was easily 25 years ago. I’m going to fix it in one adjustment, that’s my method.

I put him on his side, I grabbed onto that bone, and when I shoved that thing in place, I’m telling you, it sounded like I just sat on a bag of Doritos. Have you ever seen the movie Caddyshack where Rodney Dangerfield was driving this speedboat? It wasn’t a speedboat. It was a huge yacht, but he’s got it wide open and it may as well be a speedboat. There’s this little black man fishing on a canoe and Rodney’s headed right for him. The man looks, sees the boat coming, then looks back, and then he realizes what’s happening. He looks again at Rodney’s boat coming charging towards him, and his eyes get about as big as doughnuts.

The way that man looked, if you remember that scene, that was Charlie on the chiropractic table when I adjusted him. His eyes just lit up just like that man that was fishing on Caddyshack. I thought, oh, maybe it’s because it made so much noise and he didn’t know what was happening, or I didn’t tell him. He hadn’t been in forever or was it his first visit? I forget, but maybe I just didn’t explain things. He just had this look of fear.

Well, the next day he came back. He said, Dr. Haley, I don’t even know why I came back. I’m thinking, oh, man, I must have hurt him or something. I didn’t explain that what I do might cause a little discomfort as I make a change because I really did set out to fix it in one shot. He said something you did? I said, well, okay, what’s going on? He said, well, I don’t have any more pain going down my leg. Something you did. Okay, what else? Well, I don’t have any more pain going down my arm. I did adjust his neck too, but that’s not what the story is about. So what’s going on?

The first thing he said is, I can have sex again. I said, oh, wait a second. You didn’t say anything about that. I opened up his entrance forms and there was no checkmark where that was a potential problem. I said, why didn’t you check that box? He said, I didn’t know that I could have anything. I said, how long have you been having this problem? He said 10 years.


[01:27:57] Ashley James: So he had erectile dysfunction for 10 years.


[01:28:01] Dr. Michael Haley: And it was simply something caused in his spine. I said, what else? He said, I don’t have constipation anymore. I said, really? How long have you had that problem? He said 10 years. So for 10 years, he had nerves choked in his spine that weren’t causing pain, but they were shutting down the function of things below it because the nerves come out of the spine and go downward. I said, Charlie, what was that look on your face? He said, I had to go to the bathroom. As soon as I adjusted him, it was one of those moments like, oh, this is not good. How much it’s going to take me? And he’s calculating whether or not he can make it home for this explosive emptying of 10 years’ worth of being backed up. Sometimes it’s not your diet.


​​[01:29:04] Ashley James: It’s a really good point to make. This again comes to the idea of how we’ve been raised. We’ve been raised to believe that allopathic MD-based medicine is the only form of medicine. That we wait to get sick and then go to the doctor. 

Holistic medicine looks at the body through a whole different lens, so we have to shift our thinking. It really comes down to how we see the world, how we see our body. We have to shift our thinking. Are we a petri dish waiting to attract germs—the germ theory versus the terrain theory—or is the terrain, the soil so healthy that it doesn’t get affected? How are some people walking around, they’re like, oh, I haven’t had a cold in years, and then there’s another person who just catches everything in sight. There’s something about that.

Even Louis Pasteur on his deathbed said that he was wrong. It’s not the pasteurization, the killing off of. He goes, no, the terrain of the body is the most important thing. Understanding of the healthier your body is in terms of the healthy microbiome, then the body can easily fight off things. But when the body is weakened, the microbiomes weakened, and everything’s weakened from the processed food, chemicals, stress, addictive substances, and all these things that are weakening the body, then you are more likely to attract and grow. You become the petri dish that grows these negative things.

Looking at the body holistically, looking through the lens and going we are the soil, the body as a whole. Nerves come out of the brain, so we have to understand that nerves innervate the organs of what’s going on in the spine. What about inflammation? Everything, the gut affects the brain, right? So if someone’s presenting with brain problems or emotional problems, we can’t just focus on the brain. We have to look to the gut. If someone has constipation, we can’t just focus on food, we have to look to the spine. It’s the body as a whole. We cannot just laser focus in on one part of the body. We have to look at the body as a whole and see how everything affects each other.

That’s why I love having a team of holistic health providers, having a chiropractor that’s really good. I like to say see chiropractors that have at least 15 years of experience. My chiropractor is about to retire. I think he’s been practicing for close to 40 years. I love him to death and I tell him that we have to clone him before he retires because I don’t want to lose him. He’s amazing. See a Naturopath that has at least 15 or more years of experience. You just want to have really good experienced holistic health providers on your team that are all informing you and educating you so that you can make the best decisions for yourself.

My husband no longer has A-fib because of his chiropractor and because his Naturopath pointed it out. Then we went to the chiropractor and the chiropractor fixed it but also gave him exercises to strengthen and to continue to keep it strong. The most important thing to know is that your body can heal itself. We just have to get the right information and your body can heal itself. When you were learning from Dr. McBride, did you have any aha moments that you want to share with us?


[01:32:52] Dr. Michael Haley: Well, yeah, you know what, a couple of them. One I already mentioned, and that was the fact that she talked about plants being very detoxifying, cleansing, and important in an anti-cancer diet. Because for me, that was the moment I think that I realized, oh, that’s why so many nutritionists disagree with each other, or seemingly do. When you turn to the internet for information and you do a search about what things you should eat, well, this person says that and that person says that, so that was one of those moments when I realized, oh, it’s because we have a different focus on what we’re trying to accomplish. That was big for me, and there’s probably a lot of people listening right now that say, you’re right, I get upset because one person says this and another person says don’t.

It’s a tool like you had pointed out, and it’s a certain tool for a certain job. Some jobs require it and some don’t. I think that was probably a big aha moment. I loved her book, and this one was her book. She has a lot of books. This is one of the GAPS books, but this is the physiology syndrome. This is the blue book. I love how she talks about the soil of the intestines, which we talked a little bit about, but she goes into tremendous detail about how that works. It changed my perspective. I’ve been putting nothing but good food in my body for a long time, but now I chew it better and that can make a huge difference.


[01:34:48] Ashley James: Yeah, the chewing is pretty crazy. When I was first taught about chew 25 times, I thought that was crazy. My jaw is going to get sore, and sure enough it did, but put down your fork. I couldn’t believe I was sometimes swallowing without even chewing. When I caught myself I was like, wow, we just inhale food. So to chew, to put down the fork, chew 25 times or more, and to take a minute with each bite allows for you to get the most out of your food. you’ll probably save on groceries because now your body’s absorbing the nutrients and you’re not eating as much.


[01:35:34] Dr. Michael Haley: You’re trying to break it down into portions small enough for bacteria that are so small you can’t even see them with the naked eye. You have to break it down. You have to break it down for them. Imagine if you took your bite and you were thinking about them.


[01:35:56] Ashley James: We’ve got to. I’m going to try that. Maybe print out a little piece of paper with a picture of a microbiome, cute little cells smiling back at you. Get your kids to draw a picture of some cute little cells smiling back at you, mommy, daddy, please feed me. Chew 25 times, I want to eat.


[01:36:20] Dr. Michael Haley: Or maybe a picture of one being crushed by a piece of meat the size of a planet, what am I supposed to do with this?


[01:36:34] Ashley James: I know that everyone’s different, and you’ve given us some great advice, especially for constipation. The constipation advice you gave could be like across the board good for all gut health. Do you have any recipes for gut health or any combination of foods that across the board are really good for everyone?


[01:37:00] Dr. Michael Haley: Do you ever juice?


[01:37:02] Ashley James: Yes.


[01:37:05] Dr. Michael Haley: What do you do with everything that’s leftover?


[01:37:07] Ashley James: Oh, that’s a good question. I put it in the garden, but I always feel bad because I’m like, I should bake with this or something. I think I baked it once. There’s a listener actually who figured out how to make really good dehydrated crackers out of it. What do you do with it?


[01:37:23] Dr. Michael Haley: I make really good crackers.


[01:37:25] Ashley James: Oh, sounds so good.


[01:37:29] Dr. Michael Haley: Oh my goodness, that’s great. Yeah, because it’s a whole food. We think, oh, all the nutrients are in the juice. Well, guess what, the fiber is amazing for your microbiome. It’s food for them and it’s going to provide bulk, help things move, and it’s cleansing. It’s a whole food. You want both parts of the food, and it’s so easy to do. You just take it, you throw it in a bowl. If you want them to stick together really good, you use a lot of things like flaxseed and chia seeds that gel up, and that turns into your dough. You can put whatever herbs, spices, maybe some sea salt, peppers, or even hot peppers if you want it nice and spicy. You mix it up like a gelatinous that you can spread out on a dehydrator tray and you dehydrate it. They are delicious.

They have a lot of strength from those seeds so it has a lot of scoop-ability to it if you want to make some homemade hummus and scoop up some hummus, absolutely delicious. I promise you, eat enough of that in about a day, you’re going to sit on the throne and have the bowel movement, the kind where you want to call your friends and say, this is amazing.

 [01:38:52] Ashley James: I’ve had several episodes where we talk about different aspects, pulling it all together, fiber binds to the toxins your liver has collected. So these toxins are toxins from your cellular toxins, but they’re also toxins from the environment and from food itself like pesticides, things you don’t want in your body anymore. For women, when your body is done with the estrogen it has produced, it breaks it down into a form that it can release out of the body. We want to get rid of that because that estrogen, if reabsorbed, is toxic. So estrogen is a catch-all phrase for a ton of different hormones, but anyway, it becomes a very unhealthy form of estrogen to remain and collect in the body. Estrogen dominance is not great for us whatsoever.

The liver takes all this stuff—takes hormones that it needs to get rid of, it takes the metabolites, it takes toxins from inside our body but also outside that have come into our body, and it puts it in the bile to get bound to fiber. Bile itself is costly for the body to make, and so it wants to reabsorb bile in the colon. All these chemicals have only been around for maybe just 150 years, let’s say. We weren’t exposed to man-made chemicals for thousands and thousands of years. Our body, the way it was designed, you can say design or evolved, whatever your belief system is, either way, it was not meant to be around 80,000 manmade chemicals.

These chemicals bind to your bile. It comes into your bile and then it binds to it. Your colon reabsorbs bile. So these forever chemicals, these obesogens, these endocrine disruptors, they’re then brought back and they’re reabsorbed in the colon, and especially if you have constipation because it sits there and sits there and sits there and your body reabsorbs it back in and you become more and more toxic. The only way to make sure that your liver is being honored, being respected when getting that stuff that your liver filtered out the first time getting it out of the body so it doesn’t accumulate over time and create cancer is to have enough fiber, have enough water, and have enough mobility so that you’re pooping three times a day—well-formed poops, not diarrhea—and that the fiber is binding to and not letting your body reabsorb that bile that has the man-made chemicals attached to it.

The body was designed to reabsorb your bile, but the bile is now attached to the man-made chemicals, so when we do reabsorb it, we’re also reabsorbing all the bad stuff too. Sometimes constipation can be the cause of something much greater like cancer down the road or systemic inflammation and brain fog because one of the reasons is the body is constantly absorbing these toxins.

I love fiber from the perspective of it’s binding to what your body needs to get rid of it. You see a deep mine in the old days when they had the little cars, the mine cars coming out and dumping the coal out. You got to get it out. We’ve got to get it out of the body. If it slows down, then it can get reabsorbed.

When you dehydrate your crackers out of the pulp left from your juicing, do you put them in the dehydrator? Do you put it in the oven? Can you tell us how to make it?


[01:43:09] Dr. Michael Haley: Yeah. I forget the particular brand of it. For the dehydrator, if you don’t have one and you’re going to get one, make sure you get one with the trays that are well horizontal but the fan is on the back of the unit not on the bottom.


[01:43:27] Ashley James: Yeah, the Excalibur is my favorite for that particular design.


[01:43:32] Dr. Michael Haley: So that it blows the air through all of the trays because if it’s on the bottom blowing up, then you’re going to dry the bottom tray real good and you have to rotate them all the time.


[01:43:44] Ashley James: Oh no, that sounds bad.


[01:43:45] Dr. Michael Haley: It doesn’t work. I spread them on those trays and depending on what dehydrator you get, I think mine does like 12 trays at a time. It’s awesome. We make a lot of crackers because they last a long, long time. But my favorite seeds to put them, and I mentioned the chia and the flaxseed. The flax really gives it a really good stick, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, sunflower seeds, all of the textures that you like, roll them in there. They’re amazing.

Play with how much pulp you put in there to get the fiber and the texture you want. Go nuts with the spices. What flavor you’re craving, do you wish you had like an Italian herb bread or do you wish you had something more of Mexican flavor? Go for it, man. It’s incredible.


​​[01:44:49] Ashley James: That sounds delicious, I love it. I’ve shared this on the show, but every listener might not listen to every episode. So to reiterate, my husband had lifelong constipation. He would poop maybe twice a week and I did not know this until we went to a Naturopath who has been practicing for a very long time and she has you go through her little checklist. Before she even treats anything, she’s going to make sure you’re drinking enough water, you’re eating enough fiber, you’re sleeping well, you’re exercising like you’re moving your body every day. You’re getting your vitamin D, your basic vitamins, and you’re pooping. We came to the poopy question and he’s like, I don’t know, once or twice a week. She’s like, whoa, okay, we got to work on this.

So she sent us home. She said to make a soup with cabbage in it. There were not many instructions. She’s like, make a cabbage soup. I’m like, okay. I’m very culinary-inclined and so I know that for liver—because I was working on my liver health at the time—so I’m like okay, I’m going to add beats for liver health and I’m going to make it really delicious, add a lot of fiber to this. A big pot on the stove. 

At the time, my husband was not vegan. He has since decided to go vegan, but at the time he wasn’t so I made bone broth, and then in the bone broth I simmered a whole head of cabbage, celery or the heart of celery, either one because I’d go back and forth. I put a sweet potato in. I had put carrots in and beat, and then I’d simmer them for about 45 minutes. There’d be a bay leaf in there, and then I turned off the stove and I’d add a whole handful of cilantro like a really nice big handful of cilantro. I take the immersion blender, I would blend it, and he drank that every day for a whole week. By the end of the week, and this was before our son was born, I was pregnant at the time, so that was seven years ago, his lifelong constipation was gone and it hasn’t come back.

I learned that cabbage has tremendous healing properties for the gut, and of course with that recipe, I have it on my website. You can type gut healing soup into Learn True Health and you’ll find it. But with that, it was so amazing to see something so simple. Your grocery store can be your pharmacy, that’s just absolutely amazing.

We went to the right doctor, if we had gone to an MD and not that MDs are bad, it’s just we have to understand their training. They would have put him on a drug for constipation that wouldn’t actually have fixed the problem. So we have to fix the problem from the root, and now he’s got perfect bowel movements. I’m proud of him.


[01:48:04] Dr. Michael Haley: I love how food can make such a difference. The last video I put on YouTube about a week ago—it’s so funny that we’re talking about this—the title of it is The Perfect Poop. If you search that on YouTube with my name, with Dr. Haley, you’d probably come right to it. But it’s essentially about fiber in food and poop. I actually interviewed someone that makes a food product and it’s a very high fiber food. Their customers came up with the name. They actually called it the Perfect Poo without the P, but it’s the same thing right. It’s amazing what fiber will do. I haven’t tried it with cabbage. I don’t know if it’s fiber in cabbage that’s doing it or if there are other secret nutrients in there, but it’s amazing what food will do.


[01:49:06] Ashley James: This was a few weeks after our daughter died and her name is Vale. I was lying in a tub and I wanted to watch a documentary on my phone. I thought, I want to watch a juicing documentary because it always inspires me. I’ve never seen a juicing documentary where I didn’t cry for some time through the documentary. It’s like my Hallmark. Some people watch the Hallmark Channel to cry. If I cry in a good way, every juicing documentary I’ve ever watched I’ve cried in a good way.

I went on Amazon and it had been a while since I had checked and there was a new free juicing documentary to watch and I burst into tears because the man’s last name is Vale. I was thinking of my daughter and I had just lost her. His name is Jason Vale and he did a juicing documentary and I watched it, of course, I cried. It’s really good. 

There’s this one man who is on every medication. He went to this retreat in I can’t remember what country but it was a tropical country like South America and it’s really beautiful. It might have been Peru. I’m sorry, I really don’t remember the country, but it was gorgeous. He came with two suitcases. One was for his clothes—he was there for a month—and the other suitcase was his medication. It’s ridiculous. These people that came were so sick and nothing was working. He had such bad (I think it was) Crohn’s disease. It was either colitis or Crohn’s disease, but either way, it was really bad inflammation and ulcers along the intestines. He was on a maximum amount of steroids, maximum out of everything, and he still was in total pain.

They’re drinking juice 24/7, but every day he had one glass of cabbage juice mixed with apple juice to make it taste good because come on, cabbage juice doesn’t sound really great. He’d drink it down and he just started to get better and better and better. At one point, he was just crying because he’s like, I’ve never felt so good. I thought I was going to have to kill myself. I think he was 26. He was going to choose to end his life because his life was nothing but constant suffering and he was on every medication and It still wasn’t working. He was able to walk out of there free of his symptoms of colitis, Crohn’s, or whatever it was. Free of the symptoms of the horrible prison sentence he felt like he had. He was free.

I just love that. Juicing is great, and it’s not something we should do all the time. Dr. Natasha McBride says it’s like we use raw foods, for example, as a cleanse, right? We use it as a point of a reset, as a cleanse, it’s a healing tool, but there could be other people that if they only juiced they’d become worse because that wouldn’t be the tool for them at the time. We have to understand that it is a powerful tool, it’s a tool we should have in our tool belt, and we should know when to use it.

Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the show and having this conversation. I feel like it’s only been 10 minutes. Time just flies when we’re talking.


[01:52:51] Dr. Michael Haley: I love you, Ashley. You’re amazing.


[01:52:54] Ashley James: I love you too. What you do is wonderful. I just love our first episode together, episode 401, because I was so excited to hear about your company and the aloe because of this. When people are suffering and you are able to—with something very safe and healthy—bring down that medicine. The aloe brings down that inflammation and it speeds up. You had cited studies where it doubles healing time. It cuts the time in half, so you’re healing twice as fast. And then your body can finally get a foothold and then you start to make the changes. It’s not that it’s going to be the root cause cure-all, but it helps to get you there. It helps to get you moving in the right direction, and sometimes that’s what people need. So I love your product.

To wrap up today’s interview, do you have any more studies, any more science, or data that’s come to mind about medicinal aloe and your product particularly, which is clean, it’s pure, it’s just the gel, and it’s fresh. It’s freshly frozen and then shipped to you frozen so that you can keep it in your freezer and use it when you need it. I’ve already shared how to make it taste good, so don’t worry about that. Don’t worry about the taste. It doesn’t taste bad, but even to get kids to drink it, my son is very picky and I could make it taste good for him. Do you have any more studies or information to share about using aloe internally to help heal?


[01:54:34] Dr. Michael Haley: I found this one study that was done with 240 stage four cancer patients. The study was done by a chemotherapy company, I forget which one, but they divided them into two groups. Everybody got chemotherapy. One of the groups got one ounce of aloe vera a day. The other group just got chemotherapy, and they divided the people into four categories based on how they did. The fourth category was the complete result or the most healing from their cancers. There were 119 patients that got the one ounce of aloe vera and there were 121 patients that only got the chemotherapy.

This is what blows me away because we tell our customers to drink so much more than just an ounce. The group that got the one ounce of aloe vera, there were 10 of them that were in the complete result group versus only three in the complete result group from the ones that only had the chemotherapy. That is significant, and then of course, everyone else, if you look at a whole and the other groups as well, closer towards that better, more healing category for the ones that got aloe vera versus just the chemotherapy.

They realize that the sugar molecule—this blows people away when I tell them aloe vera is largely sugar—the slimy mucopolysaccharides, a polysaccharide is a very complex carbohydrate. Polysaccharide really means complex carbohydrates. Well, it’s a bunch of sugar molecules joined together and the sugar molecule is mannose. Mannose when they tested it on lab rats in the ’30s, put them in ketosis, and gave them mannose, somehow, they stayed in ketosis. So it’s not processed like sugars, which explains why diabetics can consume aloe vera and lower their blood sugar levels.

Now, their understanding is that what ends up happening is the cancer cells want to consume the sugar because cancer loves sugar, so it grabs onto the mannose or binds to it, but it can’t consume it and it can’t release it. So it’s almost like having your mouthful—


[01:57:19] Ashley James: It starves it.


[01:57:21] Dr. Michael Haley: Exactly, and that’s what their theory in the research is that the aloe vera somehow starves the cancer cell while the chemotherapy kills it, which personally, I think if you starve something long enough, it’ll die anyway. Not only that, but when the mannose is on that cancer cell, it’s actually like waving a flag for the macrophage to come eat it. It’s also a signal to the macrophage. The things that we’re learning now about all of these intracellular communications, the things that are happening, and how they communicate with each other and signal each other for certain things to happen, it’s really quite fascinating. We’re just beginning to understand it. 

Prior to that, I had known that Acemannan would increase tumor necrosis factor interferon and interleukin, because Acemannan , by the way, is a nutrient found in aloe vera. Those chemicals in the bloodstream would essentially increase intercellular communication and help the immune cells identify the cells that were cancerous. We’re starting to understand more and more how that happens now. So, it’s neat. We’re going to see more science about this down the road. No doubt we’re learning more every day.


[01:58:53] Ashley James: I got chills hearing about how it helps the body basically identify kidney cancer cells, and also, it starves the cancer like stuffing it’s mouthful with something it can’t eat. That gets me so excited. Oh my gosh. I mean, it’s such a good tool to have in your tool belt. Buy the aloe, have it in your freezer. I bought your aloe several times, big jugs, right? I keep giving it away to my friends. A friend of mine whose son had his constipation, my other friend had constipation, or another friend had stomach flu or something. I’m just like, oh, I’ve got something for you, and I just hand her a jug of frozen aloe. Oh my gosh, this stuff is amazing. gets you the free gift basically that you’re giving us. I love the cream, it’s not greasy. I have it on my desk, I use it as a hand cream. I really enjoy it. It makes my hands very soft and supple, but it doesn’t leave any grease because I don’t want grease on my hands when I’m typing or doing other stuff on my desk, so I really like your aloe cream. And then also the coupon code, which is []. Thank you for giving us a discount and thank you for the gift of your cream in addition to when we buy the frozen jugs it gets shipped to us.

I thoroughly enjoy it and I have several friends that are now hooked on your aloe as a result. Thank you for coming on the show. I’d love to have you back anytime you have new information to share. Is there anything you want to say to wrap up today’s interview?


[02:00:43] Dr. Michael Haley: Thank you for what you do. One podcast at a time, you’re changing the world helping people learn things about their health. They’re learning true health, so just thank you for all that you do.


[02:00:53] Ashley James: And thank you. I’m a little jealous because where you live it’s so gorgeous and sunny. You’re in Costa Rica, right?


[02:01:00] Dr. Michael Haley: Well, right now I’m in South Florida.


[02:01:05] Ashley James: Okay, you’re in South Florida.


[02:01:08] Dr. Michael Haley: I might go outside. We’re in the wintertime, I might go make some vitamin D naturally without having to eat anything.


[02:01:14] Ashley James: I’d love to live in Florida. My husband doesn’t want to live there so I probably won’t end up, but we’ll definitely go visit. But if I had it my way, I’d definitely be living in Florida. Love that weather. I dream of the day that I could walk outside my door and pick a fresh avocado. I think that would be a lot of fun. Enjoy the beautiful day. Wherever everyone is, enjoy your day, but particularly we know that Dr. Michael Haley will be enjoying his day because he lives in Florida.

I hope you enjoy today’s interview with Dr. Michael Haley. You can also check out my other episode with him, episode 401. Be sure to go to and use coupon code [] to check out his medicinal aloe drink, which is amazing.

Please come to the local Facebook group and share your experiences with the aloe. We’ve had listeners talk about how they’ve had benefits to seeing improvements in their hair, skin, and nail health, as well as their digestive health. Just for vanity sake, I think it’s a fun thing to try out. I just noticed that it brings calmness to my body, and I think that’s because it has such a profound anti-inflammatory effect on all tissues in the body. So I do notice that I’m emotionally and mentally calmer, more focused brain fog, although I don’t have a ton of that, but brain fog clears up. Just more mental acuity comes to me. Which just reminds me, I should go have some aloe right now. 

Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day and be sure to check out the next two episodes I’m going to be publishing. I’ve already done these interviews and I’m really looking forward to hearing them because they’re really, really good, so just stay tuned. The next two are pretty awesome. And remember, to check out Dr. Michael Haley’s Medicinal Aloe gel drink.


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The Maker’s Diet  by Jordan Rubin

The GAPS Diet by Dr. Natasha Campbell – McBride

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Ashley James & Dr. Isaac Eliaz


  • What is The Survival Paradox
  • What is Therapeutic Apheresis
  • Inflammaging

Dr. Isaac Eliaz is an integrative medical doctor that focuses treatment of cancer and chronic, degenerative conditions. He founded Amitabha Medical Clinic and Healing Center. In this episode, he talks about The Survival Paradox.


Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I am particularly excited to bring this episode to you because the topic of healing cancer and other complex illnesses is near and dear to my heart. If you’ve been a longtime listener, you know my mom died of cancer—even though she was the healthiest person I knew—and my dad died of heart disease. I have conquered several major illnesses myself. I’m on my own personal journey, on my road to healing, and so are you. We’re all looking to become healthier, stronger, and the best version of ourselves.

I share in this podcast that health is not just physical, that it’s mental, emotional, and spiritual. If we don’t nurture all these aspects of ourselves, then no matter how much we exercise or eat healthy, if we’re lacking in our spiritual health or spiritual growth, if we’re lacking in our emotional health, emotional growth, mental, or energetic, there are so many other aspects to just physical health. If we ignore those, then we can create a state of stress in the body that leads to poorer and poorer physical health, even though the root cause might not have begun in the physical. That’s one of the messages our guest shares today.

Right before I started editing this show today to post it, I was talking to a dear friend of mine and he brought up a Psalm. We were discussing a Psalm in the Bible and it just hit me. I’m going to see if there’s a really good video on it and I happened to find a different video on a different song, but I was called to it. You know when you’re called to something, maybe you’re called to listen to this podcast, I had to hear it.

I was like, okay, well, this is only a 4-minute and 40-second video. I can totally listen, and it really blew me away. It’s great. I’m going to put it in the show notes of today’s podcast so you can click on the description and you’ll see the link there. It talks about Psalm 23, which everyone’s heard of. It’s usually read at funerals, and it talks about how the Lord lays us down in green pastures as if we’re sheep and he’s our shepherd. 

Of course, you’re probably imagining—as I did my whole life—that green pastures were these beautiful rolling green hills. If you’re a sheep, you’re just getting mouthfuls and mouthfuls, there’s no worry in the world, and the Lord is our shepherd. We’re just happy little sheep eating up all the alfalfa and we don’t have a care in the world. That’s what I imagined, right?

Because I’m from North America, there’s lots of green grass. This one video, which you can totally go check out if you want to, it’s going to be in the show notes. It’s actually a man standing in Israel in the surrounding area. He explains what it was like back then and what it is now. You hardly see any grass. It’s very, very, very little. But the shepherds know where to take the sheep just to get one mouthful here and then one mouthful there, but if you look to the untrained eye, it doesn’t even look like there’s any green. He said, this is what it means by green pastures. Then he said a quote from a rabbi, “Worry is dealing with tomorrow’s problems on today’s pasture.” And then it clicked, right?

So we often will worry about all the things that are coming up in our life, but we’re thinking about the resources we have today. For example, let’s say there are bills or there are some events that are coming up in the future and we’re worrying about them because they’re in the future and we’re not prepared for them with today’s resources. That’s the message that I wanted to share from a spiritual perspective because my guest shares how he helps people to heal disease by turning off the stress response. 

I think a lot of times, our worry or anxiety, focusing on a future we don’t want to happen because we’re so worried because we don’t have these resources today. In the Bible, it talks about that in Psalm 23 that the Lord is our shepherd and he lays us down in green pastures, but these green pastures are not green. There are tiny little bits here and there, but the shepherd knows where to take the sheet so that it gets fed.

So it’s not saying that life isn’t going to be a struggle, but it is saying that you have the resources today to get through today, you do. And focusing on that instead of focusing on all the things that could go wrong in the future, which is what we often do. We often focus on all the things that could go wrong, and that creates huge anxiety and stress in the body. That puts our body in a state of inflammation and disease.

I teach a technique on eliminating anxiety, so if you haven’t heard me do it, please just internet search my name Ashley James and the word anxiety. I’ve been interviewed on so many, dozens of other people’s podcasts teaching this technique. I’ve also taught this technique on my show, Learn True Health, so you could also go to and type in anxiety and you’ll find where I teach this technique. It’s a very quick technique. It takes like 30 seconds, but I teach you how to turn off the stress response in the brain.

Now, our guest today goes several steps further and teaches you that there’s a way to turn it off on a biochemical level as well. But if you keep doing the thinking, the anxiety thinking that constantly creates worry and puts the body in the state of stress, then you’re constantly creating that state of disease. So we have to address it with our thinking. 

I hope you can just take a little bit of time to reflect on this message that worry is dealing with tomorrow’s problems on today’s pasture. God gives us enough. It’s not like everyone wins the lottery, right? That’s not what enough means. It’s that you’re given the resources for today. Be in today and focus on today. Focus on doing what you can to be healthy today. Focus on doing what you can to love yourself, love your neighbor, and love your family today. That ultimately, being in the now, being in a state of love is the highest form of healing, both spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

If you’re thinking about the worries, concerns, the what-ifs and the what-ifs and the what-ifs for tomorrow, and you’re lamenting on that, then you’re creating a state of disease in the body. Meditate and pray on love for yourself, for your body, for your God, and for your friends and family today.

Enjoy today’s episode. You’re going to love it. This doctor is awesome. He has so many degrees, my head was spinning. I just love that with all the medical training, he really does see that there’s a connection between our spirit, our body, and our mind, that it’s one, and we need to address it. He also takes all this wonderful information about the biochemical aspects of our meat sack that our soul is living in and how to take care of it on all these different levels. Enjoy today’s episode. 

Please join us in the Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group. We’ve got so many wonderful listeners helping each other and answering questions. I answer questions there, and many guests also come in and answer questions, so it’s a really supportive community. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.


[00:08:38] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 473. Today we have on the show with us Dr. Isaac Eliaz. I’m very excited because what he teaches is the key. It is the key. You could be doing everything else right and still be sick if you don’t do the things that he teaches. I’m just so excited that he has taken what I think is the foundation, the fundamental foundation to true health and he’s put it in a book. It’s so, so, so monumental. I’m very honored to have you here today.

Your website is, and of course, the links to everything that Isaac does are going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at Welcome to the show. I’m thrilled that my listeners get a chance to learn from you today because I think what you teach could be the key to so many people ending their suffering.


[00:09:43] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Ashley, thank you so much for inviting me. I’m pretty excited about this podcast. What you’re saying, there’s a lot of truth to it because The Survival Paradox really offers a new, fresh, and deeper paradigm shift in our understanding of what health is and how we can improve it.


[00:10:07] Ashley James: Can you tell us about what happened in your life? In terms of going to become a doctor, what happened that made you want to become a doctor, and then later, what happened that led you to discovering and writing the book, Survival Paradox?


[00:10:26] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Yes, of course. So this book is really a culmination of my life journey and my medical journey. I started my interest in the healing art really as a teenager when actually, my hobby was raising bees. I was like the youngest beekeeper in Israel. Just watching the bees, I made a deep connection with nature and understanding how bees cope with nature? And then at age 15, my father was a civil engineer and we traveled to South Korea. I got to learn and practice taekwondo with the Korean National Team because I had to learn English. So I was very fortunate to get trained, really, by, at that time, all the world champions. And I learned yoga and martial arts.

When I went to medical school in Israel, which is a seven-year process, I already knew I’m going to do holistic medicine. It was really very early on like 1981 and I became a yoga teacher. I taught in yoga teachers’ courses. I learned shiatsu. I created a [inaudible 00:11:31] acupuncture school, so I can learn acupuncture, and I learned herbal medicine. Then I had a successful center for integrative medicine as a physician who does also Chinese medicine, but I felt it was too early for me to be successful. There’s much more learning I have to do, so we moved to the North Bay to Northern California where I obtained the Master of Science in Chinese medicine, became a licensed acupuncturist, and then, later on, got my medical degree here, my medical license.

Throughout this journey, my focus medicine-wise was on integrative oncology, on how to improve on cancer treatments, and how to cure illnesses. I’ve learned, as part of my journey, classical homeopathy and a lot of naturopathic aspects.

And so parallel to this, I developed a research career where I made a lot of the discoveries of the importance of blocking Galectin-3, our survival protein. So I had this interest in integrative medicine. I had the research part, but then I got also very deeply engaged in meditation practices and I spent decades learning and training in meditation. I spent 10 years doing a half-day meditation and 20 years going to the mountains for about 2 months a year. Some of my patients were really the most legendary meditation masters in the Himalayas.

This all came together, my inquisitive mind, being an innovator, and spending time to really observe the fundamental principles of our health. I came to the realization after really learning a lot of esoteric practices of meditation and combining them with different medical methods and decades of clinical experience, I realized that the key to healing is having an open heart is love and compassion. And really, what prevents us from connecting with this infinite healing potential is our imbalanced survival response. This is really culminated with the book The Survival Paradox because it is a paradox that what makes us survive is the same mechanism that makes us sick, shortens our life, and causes a lot of suffering, pain, and illnesses, both acute and chronic.

In the book, I take people through the journey of understanding what The Survival Paradox is, how it is driven biochemically, how it affects metabolism, circulation, and how to block Galectin-3 with Modified Citrus Pectin with PectaSol. Then the end of the first part or the chapter called The Heart of Survival where I really introduce the key concept that the survival of the heart is to allow us to heal and break free of The Survival Paradox. And then I go through different illnesses, organs, and systems starting with cancer, which is of course something I focus on through my career, and then talking about the heart, kidneys, liver, lungs, metabolic diseases, neuroinflammation, microbiome, and immune responses,

It’s been an eye-opener on how to look at our health and our organ systems in a different way, and then I bring to the three last chapters really the solutions—detoxification, healing our scars of survival, and transforming the survivor paradox. And through the book, the book is full of stories of patients, really my heroes, inspiring stories of patients that really didn’t really change the expected outcome and how they did it, so the book is full of real-life examples.


[00:15:47] Ashley James: Through your sharing of your life, I think it’s so funny that a little footnote is, and then I became a medical doctor because some people that’s the highlight. The highlight of their life is they became a medical doctor, and that was sort of like one of the footnotes. You’re like, and then I got my medical degree. I wish every doctor was like you. I wish we could clone you. I wish every doctor had as much background and experience in all the different modalities that you’ve specialized in to really have a deep understanding of the human body and how it heals. That we’re not just meat sacks. That there’s so much more than just a physical body, and that our emotional, mental, spiritual, energetic—everything that happens in our life—affects the meat sack, and we have to see that this whole life affects the body.

Now, I really want to know, what happened in your life that made you want to focus on cancer? Was there a specific decision or moment that made you want to go down that rabbit hole?


[00:17:00] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: No, it’s very interesting. I had an interest in it early on. My grandfather that I’m named on after—Isaac, his name was Isaac—he was a Holocaust survivor, and his story is in my book in the chapter about healing the scars of survival. I’ll talk a little bit more about the topic of healing scars of survival later, and he died from cancer at an early age, at the age 50. And then, towards the last year of medical school, my father got cancer. We jumped to integrative treatments, he was one of the first patients in the world to get immunotherapy and his cancer disappeared. Then he died from a side effect of a treatment in 20 minutes 3 years later. But he died really in good health.

When you treat cancer, you really treat everything. People who have cancer are in a crisis and the crisis where your whole reality—everything you believed, everything you expected, you had planned and suddenly, you really see death in front of you, it’s very impermanent. And it really gives a profound opportunity for deep change. So it really fits my approach, and there are so many ways that you can help cancer patients from support, to after treatment, to maintain their good health for a long period of time, to supporting them in their dying process. It’s all part of the journey. It’s all part of healing.

So I had a deep interest and I made some very important discoveries about the development of oncological nutritional support that are very important, the main one being PectaSol Modified Citrus Pectin, which I developed over 26 years ago and has over 70 published papers. So it’s a field that I’m really deeply involved in. A lot of the integrative treatments that I use today, I mean, some of them have been developed by me in my clinic, but as I got more experience, my interest shifted more and more into a deeper understanding. Because, the deeper our understanding of who we are of our health, the better we can help ourselves and others with less aggressive tools. 

And it’s all about the right integration, for the right person, at the right time. And about being humble enough to recognize that we don’t know everything. What we believe in may be right and may be wrong. That’s a key thing that doctors have to remember, sometimes we forget. So that’s a little bit of an issue.


[00:20:02] Ashley James: So as you dove into oncology and helping patients heal when they have cancer, what surprised you? What began to surprise you in terms of helping patients heal cancer?


[00:20:18] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: You know, it’s a big question, of course, what helped. I think that if we look, again, we really can’t understand cancer patients unless we have cancer in one level because as one of my students told me, you are the best person who understands cancer who actually didn’t have cancer. But I still don’t know, it’s not my direct experience. 

It’s to see how vulnerable a cancer patient is to the system, how sensitive they are, how every word makes a difference, how much power doctors have when they come into treating cancer. It’s just important for us, the health providers in us, to really understand the responsibility of supporting people who are really facing death and a big change in their life, change in their dreams and plans, and how we can support them in a genuine, honest, but optimistic way because there are always choices. There are always options no matter what is happening. 

It’s about allowing the patient to make the right choices. When we are stuck in an automated survival response, which is a reactive response that is automated and immediate, we can’t really make the right choices. We can’t see our options. This is part of the value of recognizing the issue of imbalance survival response.


[00:22:08] Ashley James: I think that leads perfectly into what is The Survival Paradox?


[00:22:13] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: So, to really look into the survivor paradox, we have to first recognize the principle of the survival response. So, if I take a step back before I explain it and look at medicine and health, there is a greater recognition that inflammation drives every chronic disease and every acute disease. I mean, COVID is an example. It’s a strong inflammatory cytokine storm response. It is something I’ve been working on for decades, then people get organ failure and die.

But if we look at inflammation, it’s often pointed out to be the cause of many illnesses. It’s really not the cause. It’s really a process. What drives inflammation, what drives inflammatory response is our survival response. So the survival response is innate and built-in to each of us from the beginning of time—our ancestors, animals, every living being. So if we look at the survival response, if it’s so innate in us, it has to be automated, we can’t really control it and it has to start on its own.

So The Survival Paradox really demonstrates the same mechanisms that help us survive is the same mechanism that causes us to shorten our life. It causes chronic and acute diseases, and it will eventually also kill us earlier than expected. When we want to understand it and we understand how innate it’s in us, then we come to look at how it operates in our body. There is this automated system that it operates with, which is our autonomic nervous system. So our sympathetic response is automated. 

We can’t control it, our pulse goes up, our breathing gets faster, our heart works harder, the [inaudible 00:24:20] constriction so more blood can get to where it needs to be so we can run away. The basic response is fight or flight. We run away or we fight, and the running away is physically running away and it’s also hiding, isolating ourselves. So this is an automated response and it’s built to really start within seconds and it’s also built to stop very, very quickly. So this is something that is within us.

And then, on the second level, Ashley, there is a biochemical response. The biochemical response is really governed by a protein that we call alarmins.


[00:25:21] Ashley James: Can you spell that?


[00:25:24] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Alarmin is like alarm.


[00:25:26] Ashley James: Oh, alarmings.


[00:25:28] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Yeah. And the main protein that I’ve been researching for 26 years, Galectin-3. I call it the survival protein. So this protein really drives our survival. So in our embryogenesis when we are in the uterus, it helps to produce healthy organs. When we are in life, it protects us from injury, from stress, from danger. The mechanism it uses to protect us to reduce inflammation, fibrosis, dysregulations, immune dysfunction, cancer, autoimmune diseases, practically every disease, every organ. Why? Because it’s so fundamental in us.

So when we understand this and we understand that there is this biochemical alarm clock that never turns off, we also understand that it can be turned on by different things—by traumas, by infections, by heavy metals, by toxins, by genetic predisposition, by epigenetics. We get a deeper understanding of what drives it and then we get a better understanding of how we can actually change the outcome.


[00:26:49] Ashley James: I have written down a quote from you. “Your body has an innate ability to heal from a disease as long as your fight or flight survival response doesn’t stand in the way.” So, I’m a little bit confused about this survival protein because it sounded like we need it for some things, but then when we have too much of it, it causes disease and early death?


[00:27:13] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Exactly. So one thing is having too much of it and the other thing, it gets activated for too long. So for example, we’ve done fascinating research. I just published two really important papers on acute kidney injury, on injury to the kidneys from an acute illness, either from infection from sepsis or COVID. Forty percent of hospitalized COVID patients have AKI and 50% of them will die. So we have kidney damage, it kind of makes us deteriorate fast due to either sepsis or problems in the circulation. We showed that Galectin-3 spikes much earlier than any of the other cytokines like Interleukin 6, which is talked about a lot. And when we block Galectin-3 in these very well-established animal models, then we can change the outcome, we can improve the outcome.

So our ability to survive is innate in us, it will always be there. So Galectin-3 will always turn on when it’s needed. The problem is either we have too much of it, or it turns on too much and it doesn’t turn off, and this is when we get in trouble. So that’s the paradox. The reason why you say I can’t understand it is because it’s a paradox. But through the book, one comes to the understanding of what drives the survival response, what drives the survival paradox, and how to change it. 

Our survival response is truly automated on an autonomic nervous system, and then it moves to the biochemical system, which is much more serious because we know if we have a sympathetic response and our breathing goes up and our heart rate goes up, when we just go outside, we just gaze at nature, we take 10 deep breaths, or sit for a few minutes and relax, we’ll feel relaxed because we’re able to turn off the autonomic nervous system very quickly. 

But when it’s a biochemical response it’s a little bit more difficult, it goes a little bit deeper. It started many, many pathways, what we call downstream proteins, downstream cytokines, downstream molecules, downstream pathways that already start a cascade of events. In many ways, Galectin-3 is what starts the waterfall. So if you can shut down the waterfall from the top, there will be no waterfall. Once the waterfall falls and hits the bottom, you want to stop it, it’s not so easy, right?

So we often chase the symptoms instead of understanding what is the origin. So The Survival Paradox offers us a window into the origin of illness and the origin of how to transform our health. That’s really the deep message of the book. That’s the feedback I get from people. It really shifted my understanding of my health and about my life.


[00:30:26] Ashley James: That’s fascinating. It’s been something that I’ve been focusing on with my clients for years is getting them out of that extended or period where they’re in sympathetic, they’re in the fight or flight too long and helping them with tools to change the way they think because the body listens to our thoughts. You can actually think yourself into anxiety. 

Just like we can sit and watch a zombie movie and if we hooked ourselves up to machines, the machine would notice that our heart rate has increased, our respiratory has gotten shallow and faster, that we have a cortisol spike. We’re safe. We’re sitting in a living room watching a TV, our body isn’t under physical stress, but watching a scary zombie movie, our body’s listening to that, listening to our thoughts, watching it as if it’s real, as if it’s happening to us. So our body is reacting to what it thinks is a stressor, and this is the real kicker is that we’re not just a physical meat sack. What is going on inside of our body, our body responds to. And then like you said, there’s the nervous system response, but then there’s the cascading waterfall of physiological biochemical cascades that occur.

One time I was working with a client and I noticed that so many of her habits were triggering her into a state of stress. I’d given her homework to do throughout the day to help alleviate that and she wasn’t doing the homework. I asked her, I confronted her, and I said, you’re doing everything else. You’re eating healthy, you’re doing everything, but you’re not doing this. Why is that? She goes, well, I don’t feel stressed. And I said, that’s right, it’s not an emotion. People often who are in a long term state of stress don’t even know it or if they grew up in a very rough environment, their norm is—


[00:32:42] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: It’s a great example, and I just talked about it in another podcast earlier today. It’s a great example, Ashley, because if we are caught in a continuous chain of stressors and stress responses, we don’t have the space between the thoughts, the space between our automated actions to connect with how we feel. So one of the first things that happen, for example, in meditation, when people start meditating for the first time, they feel, wow, really. Either they fall asleep or they feel very, very restless. Why are they feeling restless? It’s not because of meditation. They always felt restless. They just were not connected with it. Now that they slow down and they took a step back, they start noticing the stress.

Actually, I get to this level of mind training in the last chapter of the book once the whole journey is complete. I have a diagram of pebbles. You make a distance between the pebbles, things start surfacing—feeling, emotions, insights, traumas—and we connect with our stress, we connect. And then of course, what we are interested in from my perspective is not what we experience, it is our response to the experience. Do we have a survival response, or can we have a transformative response? Our body, our physiology is built to do both. We are built to have a survival response, obviously. But we are also built to have a transformative response. We can talk about it when we talk about the role of the heart in healing. That’s a key role of the heart.


[00:34:32] Ashley James: How do we help people then if we go outside? We tell them, go outside, breathe in, be part of nature, ground yourself, do meditation. That’s helping them stop the waterfall at the top, but now we’ve got, like you said, your body’s still in that state of stress from a biochemical standpoint. What can we do from a biochemical standpoint to help regulate the survival protein so that we don’t exacerbate it, we don’t have too much of it, and end up creating disease and early death in our body?


[00:35:16] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: As you said, we are not just physical beings. We are an integration of the physical aspect, an emotional aspect, the psychological aspect, the mental aspect, and the psycho-spiritual aspect. It’s all within us. This means that all of these levels are also becoming doors to heal ourselves. Changing our lifestyle, changing our diet, changing our way of thinking, working with ourselves psychologically—all of these will have an effect. So on the physical level, the one thing that we do have to do is we have to block Galectin-3. That’s why it’s such a great value of PectaSol, of Modified Citrus Pectin because it blocks Galectin-3.

So if we look at over 70 published papers on PectaSol, they cover so many different health conditions. How is it possible that it can be such nutritional support for so many conditions? Because it addresses this upstream molecule.

So the first step is understanding the survival paradox, and then understanding it really affects our inflammation and it affects fibrosis. It creates fibrosis, it creates organ dysfunction, tissue dysfunction. And we understand this and we understand how the heart is the door to changing it, then we can start taking action. The actions are many different methods and I go a lot through it in the book, of course, but right now, within this discussion, if we allow ourselves to destress long enough, it will affect our physiology.

When you do a one-hour yoga lesson, Qi Gong, or meditation, there are at least 100 different genes that open and close, and that’s the power of epigenetics. So we are made from endless people who have made us over multiple generations, and I talk about it in the chapter about healing this scar of survival. Our scars of survival are from this life, but also, we carry the scar of our ancestors—both their genetic scars, scars that affected their genetic makeup and were passed on, and even more important, the epigenetic scars. Epigenetics like above genetics because it’s very hard to change genetics, but we have a choice if a gene will express itself or will not express itself.

One beautiful Talmudic Hebrew saying says, [Inaudible 00:38:07], which means, everything is predetermined yet we have a choice. The predetermination is our genetics. The choices are our epigenetics. So we have to recognize that how we feel, what we do, and how we respond is not always because of what we did. It’s often because of habits and traumas that we carry on through our ancestors.

In my book, in the chapter about healing the scars of survival, I tell the story as the grandson of Holocaust survivor of my grandfather Isaac who I’m named after, my grandmother, a little bit my mother, and then me. I always, from a very early age like the age 11, 12, had this upper back pain, but the pain is the center of my chest in my sternum. Whenever I would touch it, I would jump. It would be very painful, and I carried it all my life. I knew it had a deeper meaning. When I finally connected with it through meditation, through deeper work, I realized I’m carrying the Holocaust trauma of my grandfather. When I healed it, I just opened up. A few years ago, like 50 years later, my chest is open, my posture is open. But interestingly enough, my grandfather is not alive, but it affected my mother without her knowing that I did this work, and that’s a multi-generational healing power of changing these very, very deep patterns. Galectin-3 is our biochemical driver, but our heart is really what allows us to change and to shift from a survival-based unhealthy response to nourishment, love, and compassion because of this physiology of the heart.


[00:40:11] Ashley James: That is so fascinating. I’ve heard that they can actually take like yourself, children, and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, that they can see in bloodwork higher cortisol, and they can see a higher state of stress just genetically passed down. There are other studies I’ve seen where they did trauma to mice or rats, and that for up to five generations, they could see the epigenetic expressions of chronic stress


[00:40:51] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Completely. So it’s interesting. For me, my grandfather died at a very early age. He came to Israel with my grandmother and my mother. They escaped through Romania, and miraculously, they made it to Israel and he died in 1950, maybe 1952 at age 50—very, very young. He died from stomach cancer. And then my grandmother who saved the family in the Holocaust lived to 98, overcame two cancers, and died, as I said, at the age of 98, like in 2000, whatever. Around 2008, I think.

So, just on her graveside, my mother told us as a small comment, your grandfather, five out of his eight siblings, and his parents were killed by the Nazis. I never told this, so it was never spoken and he held his trauma in his stomach. That’s where he got his cancer. I could feel that I’m holding some of his trauma. I did before healing when I could feel my connection with him. But when I really released, when I released my trauma and my negative emotions around the Holocaust in a transformative way, and I gained this ability of freedom, my mother could never watch a program about the Holocaust ever. And then suddenly, two months later, like the day of the Holocaust remembrance, suddenly she turned on TV. Now she goes to ceremonies about [inaudible 00:42:40], about the Holocaust without her knowing what I did because by me healing the epigenetics that came from my grandfather, it affected his daughter, which is my mother.

That’s the power of multi-generational healing because time doesn’t go just forward. Time goes backward and forward. We just can’t see it because we are stuck at freezing time. That’s really the root of the Survival Paradox is holding two things—not understanding that everything changes all the time. Once we start shifting in this direction, then instead of having a life that is just goal-oriented, we start living the journey, we start living the moment, and we start not holding even to the moment because everything changes all the time.

This leads to one of my most favorite sayings, not everyone will be a miracle, but anyone can be a miracle. And why? Because everything is changing. Everything is changeable. Nothing is permanent. That’s the absolute truth that nobody can argue regardless of your belief system. It’s a fact. Now we understand this, we can look at the physiology of our body because if survival is so innate in us, it will be reflected in us. When you look at our body, we have, I’m rounding up, about 50 trillion cells. Trillion means a thousand times a thousand is a million, then a million times a thousand is a trillion times 50.

Each of these cells can have up to 1 million reactions a second. Ashley, it’s incomprehensible, okay.


[00:44:31] Ashley James: It is.


[00:44:32] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Fifty trillion cells having a million reactions a second, and we all work in harmony. Why? Because we are all working together for the greater good, for the good of our whole body, right? We are holding, we are identifying with our body, with our being, with our ego as an independent entity and we want to support it. Every cell knows it’s going to be created, it’s going to do its work, and then it’s going to go away through apoptosis. But when a cell goes into an inappropriate survival response and doesn’t want to die, how can he do it if the body’s telling you it’s time to die? It has to change its biochemistry just to change its environment.

That’s the same like the flight, running away. It creates a microenvironment by surrounding itself with a lattice formation made out of Galectin-3 that binds to different inflammatory compounds, and this environment now has a different metabolism. It’s no longer as responsive to oxygen. It doesn’t communicate anymore. And when it stops communicating, it becomes its own independent entity, and then it starts to proliferate, to grow, and it wants to take over. How do we call it? We call it cancer. Or it wants to attack other organs, how do we call it? Autoimmunity.

So these diseases are a reflection of an abnormal survival response. When we understand it and we apply this principle to health, maintenance, and to treatment, if somebody has cancer, we naturally will get better results.

So if we look at our body, if we look at our cell, our cell is a membrane, which is like the skin of the cell, and the membrane decides what comes in and what goes out. So the cell will take in what it needs and will release what it doesn’t want. It detoxifies and it nourishes. And in the membrane, you have to exchange the transformation. So the cell does it this way, the tissue does it in this way, the organs do it in this way. I don’t want to take too much to describe too many organs, but it’s a vital principle that organs take nourishment and let go of venous dirty blood. This is how the system is maintained because it’s being balanced by the heart.

The heart works completely differently, and that’s why open heart medicine is so powerful. That’s why the healing power of the heart is so powerful. What the heart does as part of its survival, the heart has to get dirty blood. The heart does not get clean blood. It gets venous blood. It gets all the stuff that the body doesn’t want, all the stuff that comes from the perspective of the heart from the past because it was released from the organs and tissues earlier on and it arrives into the heart. What does the heart do? It doesn’t say, no, no, I don’t want to take it. The heart accepts everything. It connects with the universe through our lungs, through our breathing, exchanges, releases carbon dioxide, volatile toxins, absorbs oxygen, and then the heart gives blood without discrimination. 

The aorta, the main artery that comes from the heart, is a rigid artery. It doesn’t contract. It gives blood everywhere. And who does the heart nourish first? The first organ that the heart nourishes is itself through the coronary arteries. So that’s the beauty. Our heart nourishes itself in order to nourish others and as part of nourishing others. That’s why from this approach, self-love and self-compassion come as part of love and compassion for others, very different from narcissistic focus. And if we look at the heart, one of the things which are kind of mind-blowing and again, for some reason, nobody has made this correlation until I came up with this image, but it’s obvious to me. The heart nourishes itself only after it finishes its work, only when it finishes accepting dirty blood—releasing the carbon dioxide and oxygenating the blood. Now it’s giving it to all the body only then, as really as a selfless organ, it also takes care of itself.

Physiologically, anatomically, the coronary arteries could have been in the right, in the left atrium, in the left ventricle. There’s already clean blood there. But no, the heart takes care of itself only when it’s done with serving others. It’s done with sending the blood out. That’s a selfless survival power of the heart that allows us to transform our health, and that’s the transformation of the survival response.

So how will it be, for example? So it’s done anyway even if we are anxious and we respond to everything with a survival negative emotion, the heart physiologically does this otherwise we won’t be alive. But because it’s done physiologically, it’s easier to take a ride on it and make emotional, psychological, mental, psychospiritual changes in a genuine way. So when you start applying it in different levels, when a situation in life comes, instead of responding with it with anger or fear, we respond to it with an open heart, with love, compassion, and empathy and it changes our physiology because the electromagnetic field of the heart is the largest electromagnetic field in the body. It’s 100 times bigger than the brain’s electromagnetic field.

So the electromagnetic field of the heart at any given moment reaches every cell of our body and reaches the people around us. We are connected heart to heart. So just like cells are connected to each other and the heart is the glue that keeps everything together through the circulation, so we as people are connected to each other right now, and of course from a genetic point of view realizing how many generations made us, there is no way that each person have had a mutual parent, sibling, child, or relative at one time in the past because we have been made out of an infinite number of people. So this gives us a little bit of a different perspective about health and life, right?


[00:51:10] Ashley James: The analogy of the heart is so beautiful and so perfect. It doesn’t discriminate. It brings in the old and the past and it connects to the universe, detoxifying, bringing in the nourishment, and then nourishing itself first before other organs so that it continues to nourish other organs. It loves itself so it can love others. I think that it is beautiful, perfect, and so needed. We have to remind ourselves that self-love and compassion are how we’re going to have the most love and compassion for those around us. I love it.

You talked about apoptosis program cell death, and another thing I’m interested in is autophagy, which is the body’s mechanism for digesting pathological tissue. I think combined with triggering apoptosis and triggering autophagy, that’s the cleaning mechanism to ensure we don’t develop cancer out of control. Does Galectin-3 turn off apoptosis and autophagy? Does it affect it in that way? Does it affect the mechanisms the body uses to prevent cancer?


[00:52:34] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: You know, Galectin-3 will speed apoptosis of normal cells, which we don’t want, but it will prevent apoptosis of cancer cells, for example, because they will move into glycolysis. Autophagy is really a repair mechanism of the cell and of the body. As you said, it’s a cleanup mechanism, and it’s often disrupted when we have an abnormal glucose metabolism. When we have normal glucose metabolism something called AMPK, adenosine monophosphate kinase, in the cell that produces energy from glucose by working properly with the mitochondria. When there’s not enough oxygen or when another pathway called MTO1 turns on, then you get abnormal metabolism, the mitochondria shuts down, the cell goes into a survival response.

It moves into glycolysis. Why? It can produce energy 100 times faster but at a heavy cost. Only two molecules of ATP from one molecule of glucose instead of 36, and a lot of nasty byproducts—lactic acid, et cetera. So autophagy is key to clearing the system because it will reduce the activity of this MTO1 and will restore the activity of AMPK. And yes, Galectin-3 will have a harmful effect and when we block it with modified citrus pectin and we block Galectin-3, indeed it will support healthy autophagy. And of course, I talked about in the book in detail, what really supports autophagy is intermittent fasting.


[00:54:27] Ashley James: Yes. That was next question was about fasting. This is great.


[00:54:31] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: I talk about it a lot in the book. So intermittent fasting and how long you have to fast depends on what food you eat. If you eat a lot of sugars, you have to fast longer because you have more glycogen. If you have less carbohydrates, then even at 13, 14, 15 hours, autophagy starts, and that’s why intermittent fasting is a very valid way of eating used by multiple cultures because you think in old times, it was too late. You would eat when it was early on, easy to cook, easy to prepare food. There wasn’t light, and then you went to sleep. You ate at 5:00 PM, 4:00 PM then ended the day. Then the next morning you wake up, you will do your stuff, and then you will eat once you do some activity like at 8:00 AM, 9:00 AM, 10:00 AM. So you had 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating.

So, really, intermittent fasting is a good strategy on a long term basis. It’s different from the ketogenic diet. It’s worthwhile mentioning it because when the ketogenic diet became very popular in cancer, I remember I was teaching at A4M in the integrative oncology module like certification, I was one of the teachers. When people got excited, I warned them. I told them, look, don’t overuse it because the ketogenic diet is a survival diet. A ketogenic diet allows us to survive on a long term basis. But if the ketogenic diet was our ideal diet, it wouldn’t be our alternate diet. It would be our day-to-day diet because the body is smart.

The ketogenic diet is very useful on an intermittent basis. So for example, for my patient who will go through chemotherapy or radiation, I will use a ketogenic diet intermittently during the cycle, not all the time. But intermittent fasting is something that we can really adapt into our diet on a daily basis. You can do a longer fast, one day a week, every two weeks, or two days a month, but it really gives a break to the glucose pathways and it allows us to clean them up, to fix them. Meanwhile, if we need, then yeah, the fat ketogenic metabolism will kick in and things will be okay, and then we go back when it’s cleaner and it gets erased. It’s like giving a break. It’s like changing the oil on many levels. That’s really what it is.

So it’s important to really recognize this very important role of intermittent fasting. It’s also important to recognize because I have a fascinating chapter on detoxification in the book, and really, honestly, it’s like a topic of its own because everybody talks about detoxification and detoxification, but detoxification is really something we do all the time. Our body is a balance between detoxification and nourishment. Where if we look at our lungs, the big detoxifier, the lung naturally contracts, when it contracts, it lets go of air, it releases. The exhalation is twice as long as inhalation, which means we detoxify longer than we nourish.

When we come to this world, the first thing we do is we cry, we let go, we detoxify. The lungs let go. The last thing we do before we leave this world is we take an exhalation. So detoxification and letting go at our basis are innate to us, but we have to recognize that when we are detoxing, it’s a process and we’re going to get rid of things that we may have been hiding in certain places in our body, in certain boxes like I call it in the book. So when we open the boxes, when we throw everything from the closet on the ground, it’s going to be a mess. So we have to be equipped to clean the mess, and that’s part of what we do on a daily basis. For example, intermittent fasting is an example, right? The cleanup just like you mentioned that’s why I’m elaborating. Then when we do more concerted, longer, targeted seasonal detoxification all-around treatments and diseases, then it requires more support. But when done properly, it is effective and almost universally side-effect free, if done properly.


[00:59:11] Ashley James: How about longer fasts? Three- to five-day fasts or 21-day fasts. Is there any harm in doing a longer fast or do you find them to be helpful as well?


[00:59:26] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: No, there are a lot of spiritual traditions that use longer fasts and water fasts, and when we peel off, it’s a catabolic process. We break a lot of tissue and when we break a lot of tissue, we also break and release a lot of the toxins, a lot of the trauma that has been in the tissue. And if we clean them in nature with good food and clean water, it definitely can have a profound effect, but we are not built to shut down our system. If you look traditionally like in different religions, most of the fasts are one day or you’ll fast during the day like in Islam, which is for a month, which is pretty much intermittent fasting, right?

So from a health perspective, it’s better to drink a lot of water when you fast so you can help the clean-up. But fasting has a profound effect because it really turns off our maintenance activities so our body and our being can tune into deeper things. I’m personally not a supporter of long term fasting. I don’t think it’s physiological. It’s much better to do it in a moderate way through intermittent fasting with a one-day fast with water. We just peel off gradually. The more we do things gradually, the more we create a gradual change, the more sustainable it will be.


[01:01:04] Ashley James: I’m all about making sustainable, gradual, healthy changes instead of trying something really big, blowing up on our face, beating us up, and then going back to our old habits that were hurting us, right? It’s good to do small steps that then get solidified into our daily habits.


[01:01:23] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Yeah. In The Survival Paradox in the chapter of detoxification, I really map the process of detoxification from preparation to exposure of what you want to detoxify, to binding the toxins, to processing them, to supporting the system, and I explain the phases and how to do it. So afterward, either it’s a health provider helping others or it’s somebody doing it, there is a better understanding of what’s happening. And then in the appendix, I provide a very detailed detoxification protocol. It’s about 80 pages in the appendix of multiple protocols, supplements, how to do, and when to do it. But the book itself is more about changing the journey. It’s about a really deeper understanding than the appendix that I give the different details.


[01:02:22] Ashley James: I hope that everyone that reads your book will take this as a life guide to helping them in the long term and integrating what you teach in the long term. This isn’t like one of those magazines that say 30 days to lose 30 pounds. It’s not a get quick, do something for only 30 days, get a result, and then go back to your old habits. This is something that is life-changing and you have to integrate so it takes time to integrate these changes. Can you give us homework? Give us some things we can start today, some habits we can change today to make a difference.


[01:03:07] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: So the first thing is to start by doing small changes. For example, try to make sure that your room is really dark when you go to sleep so your melatonin level goes up. Unplug electronics from your surroundings, especially your cell phone, put it away. When you wake up in the morning, start your day by drinking two glasses of water so you will hydrate. This is a simple thing also before bedtime. And then find the time for yourself to unwind in whatever way works for you. Whatever your belief system is, in whatever method you want. 

If you have a very busy life, then start it for a few minutes in bed before you get out of bed. Sit in bed and meditate for a few minutes, and then before you go to bed, sit for a few minutes and meditate. Just allow your mind to expand, allow your breathing to slow down, and then open your heart to yourself into every other living being that wants to be happy. Everybody wants to be happy and then go to sleep with this energy. 

The other part is actually, believe it or not, read my book. It really takes you through a process. And then when it comes to the clinical part from chapters 7 to 13, I mean, if somebody was really interested in medicine, in health, and specifics, it’s okay to skip it also. It has a lot of inspiring stories. The book is full of dozens of inspiring stories of patients, my heroes. But really, it will give you an understanding of how life is inseparable from our health and how intertwined, interdependent things are, and it gives us the power back to own our health, to own our well-being, which is so needed. I mean, self-empowerment is really not overly available these days. In a manipulative, divisive survival response, and negative environments.

One thing why certain things are so important now is because when it’s very dark, one small candle can be seen really well. When there’s a lot of light, when the sun is shining, you can turn on a candle, nobody will see it. But when it’s dark, every small light will shine far away. That’s really the value of understanding what drives us and that we have the power to change it, we really do.


[01:05:49] Ashley James: We talked a bit about healing the scars of survival. Do you have specific tools? What tools did you use to heal that emotional pain that was showing up as physical pain near your heart and your body? Do you have any recommendations?


[01:06:09] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Yeah, of course, of course. So part of what I do, I teach meditation and healing retreats. I teach it very extensively in Israel where I have a few thousand students. But now with the book being out here, I’m going to have a one-week masterclass about transforming the survival paradox sometime in the second quarter of 2022. Then I’m going to actually have a summit about it with different guests in November of 2022. But when I do these few days of retreats, it’s what people go through profound healing, profound.

But in general, we really have to address our being on these multiple levels and really find places where it’s relatively easy for us to change. Don’t be hard on yourself. I mean, life is not always simple, unfortunately.


[01:07:14] Ashley James: I studied a lot of these different modalities and my favorite one for getting to the root cause and healing unresolved negative emotions that are stuck inside us is Time Line Therapy, and I highly recommend checking out timeline therapy. It was created by Tad James, of no relation. I love him but we’re not related. We have the same last name. And then also, Emotion Code I’ve had really good experiences with as well. I’ve studied Time Line Therapy and done it for many years with clients, and I’ve seen huge results. Those are the two methods that I have seen help people resolve the root cause of negative emotions, but also release them from the body like when it’s trapped in the body physically.


[01:08:03] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Right, right. So let me expand on this a little bit. In the clinic setting, we addressed the scars with healing, with acupuncture, with different supplements, but I also specialized in a procedure called Therapeutic Apheresis, which is similar to dialysis. I’m really a disruptor in the field even on a global level where I use an Apheresis device. It is FDA approved. And Apheresis is similar to dialysis. It’s a fancy procedure where you take the blood, you separate the cells from the plasma, and you filter the inflammatory compounds, the [inaudible 01:08:42] lipids from the plasma. And what happens, you allow the body’s opportunity to recalibrate. That’s on a physical. That’s on one end. Most develop in our special column that will remove just Galectin-3. It’s a medical device project I have with some NIH grants.

But on a healing level, it’s exactly what you talked about. It’s understanding the multi-generational and timeline events. The way we respond now is a result of things that happened in our past, happened in the past of our ancestors, and to make things really complicated, it’s a result of what happened in the future because the future goes backward just like time goes forward. I have a diagram when I present it and teach it usually in the context of retreats, and then I use a lot of scar injections where I will inject a scar with Procaine, it’s called neural therapy, with different homeopathics. Universally, scars will get smaller. 

Universally, scars from laser, from surgery that have been there for 20, 30, 40 years and you put Procaine, the scar gets numb for 45 minutes and then it gets smaller and smaller by 10%, sometimes smaller and thinner by 60, 70%. Now what’s mind-blowing, it will never come back. How is this possible? Because the scar has a relationship with the nervous system where there is a message coming to the brain that there is a scar, that something is not functional there. When we numb it, we cut this ongoing automated response, which is part of a survival response on a neurological level. And then we allow the body to relearn, to create a new memory, what we call memory reconsolidation. It’s really a psychological system. It’s not my system, but I use it on a physiological level. So this healing of the scar, I do it on a physical level, and I do it with acupuncture, healing, and visualization, so it’s a little bit more powerful. But we also do it emotionally or with different systems like you described. But they all come to allow us to be ourselves. At the moment, as much as possible, without having all these strings to our past mainly that make us react in a way that is really not how we would react if there was no past that was affecting us.


[01:11:23] Ashley James: I love it. That procedure where you filter the blood, I want to do that. That sounds fascinating. How can we do that? Do we have to come to you in California or other places?


[01:11:36] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: No, no, no. That’s actually a very specialized procedure that I specialize in. It’s really what I do. It’s usually done more in hospitals for people with genetic hypercholesterolemia, but I specialized it for inflammatory purposes and I have a lot of publications in the field. And yes, it’s done in Amitabha Medical Clinic. But important is to do this in a larger context just like you and I talk today.


[01:12:10] Ashley James: Right you can’t fix it by going and getting a machine to filter it because if you don’t change your lifestyle, you don’t do the emotional healing, and you don’t change your habits it’s just going to come back.


[01:12:20] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Sometimes if you are in really bad shape, the machine will give you a chance to recalibrate because people try to heal and try to heal and it just gives you a break. You just get a moment where something else is doing the work for you and then suddenly, you finish the treatment and your blood is a way towards when you were like 18 years old, and then suddenly, the tissue can let go and changes can happen. That’s the power of the procedure.


[01:12:49] Ashley James: How can we measure that what we’re doing is working? So I know heart rate variability is a good way of measuring if the body is under stress. But that’s not measuring the cascade effect, like you said. Is there a way to measure or would you give us some examples of how we know the changes that we’re making from your book, right? Like I’d say we start integrating these changes. How do we know it’s working? How do we know we’re reducing our Galectin-3 and that we’re getting our physiology back into a state of healing?


[01:13:28] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: So the first thing that we see that we know is we just feel better. We’re not as tired, we are more spacious, we’re not as reactive, we are happier. We smile more. The same interaction doesn’t bring up negative emotions. We are more tolerant. That’s one thing. Our inflammatory markers go down if you’d see reactive protein or fibrinogen activity, et cetera. We can also measure Galectin-3, which is an FDA-approved inexpensive test that is done by all labs. It’s supposed to be paid by insurance, almost always is. If not, if you don’t have insurance, it’s one of these things where people who pay without insurance pay 10 times more than insurance, which anyway, I won’t get into this. I can’t solve it, unfortunately. 

But when you look at Galectin-3, you have to be careful about relying on the level of Galectin-3 because of genetic differences, people can still have a damaging effect of Galectin-3 with low levels. But if you think that you are healthy, you do a blood test, and your Galectin-3 is elevated, then this can be like a wake-up call that something is going on in the body. And then following Galectin-3 is important.

So one of the basic things and why this is my number one recommended supplement is the PectaSol Modified Citrus Pectin, not because I developed it. If you look at my programs 10 years ago or 15 years ago, let’s say, yeah, some of my patients got it, but not all of them. Now it’s the first thing I did, why? Because it blocks the Galectin-3, it helps to stop this damaging process. At the same time, it removes heavy metals, it regulates the immune response, and supports the microbiome. So it has this amazing benefit. So that’s why just like the starting point, you can take as little as 5 grams a day for maintenance, or if you have serious health problems, you take 15 grams a day, either powder or capsules.

That’s a basic thing that we want to do. And then our pains get better, our memory improves because it’s all driven by the same inflammaging. This undercurrent of subclinical inflammation is not evident but it’s causing damage and rapid aging. Yes, so it’s a combination of how we feel and changes of course in our blood test also. It changes our perspective of life because when we are more tolerant, when we’re not as reactive, then some of our life dramas just go away because some of it, unfortunately, is objective difficulties that so many people have. It breaks my heart. Some of it is our reaction to our life, right? People can react to the same thing in different ways and shifting from reactivity to tolerance to what we call loving, compassionate, responsiveness instead of reactivity. It really shifts our physiology and our being. These days, Ashley, it is so critical to go to these places for all of us.


[01:16:57] Ashley James: You said inflammaging like inflammation and aging, and oh my gosh, that hit me so hard. I say this all the time on the show. If you want to be a statistic, live like everyone’s living. Go eat the same food everyone’s eating, go watch TV until one in the morning, binge on Netflix, or vape whatever everyone’s vaping. Just go with the mainstream flow, Hollywood, just follow what everyone else is doing and jump from fad diet to fad diet. Do what everyone’s doing and eat a ton of candy, drink a ton of alcohol, and you’re going to be a statistic. 

But if you don’t want to be a statistic, and right now, the statistic is one in three people will have cancer. One in three people has diabetes or a prediabetic. Heart disease, cancer, and diabetes are the three top killers. Stroke is the fifth, I believe, top killer. That is your future and early death is your future if you live like how everyone else is living. We have to be a salmon and completely go against the grain and stop the inflammation and the early aging, right? Inflammaging, I just love that.


[01:18:16] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Inflammaging is very much driven by Galectin-3, by the abnormal survival response by the survival paradox. In the book, I just show how it’s driven through all diseases.


[01:18:30] Ashley James: But it’s never too late. Do you have any success stories you can share of people who were in their 60s, 70s, 80s and they turned themselves around and gave themselves a healthier living experience?


[01:18:44] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: A lot and a lot of stories about cancer patients. Of course, the book is full. Every chapter is between one and five stories. So there are dozens of stories of healing, absolutely. I mean, I share my own story of healing, absolutely. As I said, everything is changeable because nothing stays the same, everything flows, right? The moment the heart stops contracting and blood stops flowing, we are dead. There’s always a flow. There’s always a movement, nothing freezes. There’s a difference between ice and water, right? Everything flows. 

So as long as things are changing, everything is possible, and this is really the key for tapping into our infinite healing potential [inaudible 01:19:39]. That’s why I mentioned already in this podcast, my favorite saying, not everyone will be a miracle but anyone can be a miracle. Because when we change our habits, we change our biochemistry, we change our physiology, and we change the outcome. That’s the beauty of the infinite healing power that each of us has.


[01:20:05] Ashley James: You brought up scar tissue and I think it’s really fascinating because every cell in our body is different within seven years. Every atom, every molecule of our body is new every seven years, right? We renew our body from the earth, from what we eat, we renew it from what we breathe, and yet, our body can remember to hold on to a scar. But I have actually seen people do emotional healing work and scars disappear. They no longer hold on to the memory of the scar and the body lets go.


[01:20:40] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Absolutely. That’s the idea, multi-dimensional. So you do the emotional work, you do the psychological work, you create space in the mind, and you do the physical work. That’s why amazing things can happen. That’s why anything and everything is possible.


[01:20:56] Ashley James: I love it. I love it. So I definitely encourage listeners to read your book, the number one most important book. We should be buying this for Hanukkah, for Christmas, and for the holidays regardless of what you’re celebrating. December is kind of the time to buy presents for our friends and family and those we love, and I just think your book, Survival Paradox, is a wonderful gift for those we love who we want to help them stop the inflammaging and live a healthier, happier life balancing all aspects of their life. Regardless of how long you’re going to live, it’s all about quality of life. Let’s increase the quality of life now and extend life but extend the quality of our life, and I think that’s so important.

And of course, all the links are going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at Thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been wonderful. I’m really looking forward to hearing the feedback from my listeners as they dive into Survival Paradox and begin to incorporate these practices into their life. Is there anything that you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?


[01:22:05] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Yeah. First of all, thank you so much for having me and being interviewed by somebody who understands what I’m talking about makes it easier, of course, and I really appreciate it. It’s a process. I mean, the book is a guideline, but if you’re really interested, use the opportunity. I’m going to start teaching more, in classes more, and offering more of these. It’s like offering my heart. You can get a sense even in a recording, I’m coming from my heart, and I’m sharing decades of studies and experience. It’s not something that I just came up with after a few months. I’ve been in the healing arts for almost 50 years, so there is a lot of experience, a lot of fun observation, and multicultural different parts of the world. Like a sponge, I absorbed and absorbed. Now I distilled it and I really want to offer this important healing advice to as many people as possible. It’s my third act.


[01:23:15] Ashley James: Well, I’m looking forward to your fourth and fifth, and I definitely want you to come back on the show when you have more to share and when you have more to teach. Your summit in 2022 sounds fascinating. I’d love for you to come back and continue to share with us. Thank you so much for coming on the show.


[01:23:28] Dr. Isaac Eliaz: Thank you so much for having me. Have a great day.



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Ashley James And Jim Curtis


  • What makes IIN different from other health and wellness schools
  • Bio-individuality
  • What’s new at IIN

Jim Curtis is the Chief Revenue Officer & Head of Brand at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition (IIN). Before joining IIN, Jim helped develop WebMD, Everyday Health, and Remedy. He is also the author of The Stimulati Experience. In this episode, Jim shares what’s new at IIN and what you can gain from studying at IIN.


Hello, true health-seekers and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health podcast. Back when I started this podcast, I had come really far in my healing journey but I wasn’t done. And you’re never really done, are you? But I had accomplished reversing type 2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and infertility, and that’s a lot. And I’ve been working on myself to get to a point where I’ve considered myself to have optimal health. I’m not there yet, but I am way closer to my goal than I’ve ever been.

So when I started the podcast, I had already accomplished all that, and I was still working on solving some of my health issues, right? I did not know what health coaching was when I started my podcast. I was actually doing a lot of coaching with clients for years, but I didn’t really have a strong grasp on the definition of what it is to be a health coach. I kind of wrote it off as something froufrou or something really superficial like probably someone who tells you to go for walks and drink water. I didn’t respect it because I didn’t understand it.

But as you know, if you’ve been a listener for a while, I am the most open-minded skeptic. I’m going to think critically, but I’m going to give things that maybe I just write off or just dismiss, I’m going to give them a chance. I’m going to have an open mind and try things on even if they go against my belief system because I want to grow. I want to grow outside of my own belief system, I want to learn things like the things you don’t know you don’t know.

That’s the realm of possibility where you’re so open to learning about the unknown. You see, there are things we know we know, right? We know we know how to tie our shoes. We know we know how to drive a car, and there are things we know we don’t know. I know I don’t know advanced calculus or I know I don’t know how to fly a plane. Just taking the stuff you know you don’t know and learning it is only about 5% of your life. That is not nearly as fun as being open. Opening your mind up to the things you don’t know you don’t know. You don’t even know there’s this whole world out there of possibilities. You don’t even know they exist and you don’t even know you don’t know them yet.

That’s where I like to live. And especially with my podcasts, I like to have guests that show me a world I didn’t even know existed and show me that it’s possible. It’s been through holistic medicine that what I didn’t know I didn’t know came to light. I didn’t even know there was this world where I could reverse disease naturally. That my body was deficient in nutrients that could reverse disease because I was raised in that same system you were where we waited to get sick, then we went to the doctor, and we were put on drugs to manage something but never cure it, never reverse it.

I was, for many years, told by an endocrinologist and doctors that I would always have these conditions, always have these issues—diabetes, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and infertility. I was told I’d absolutely never have kids. That’s the reality that most people live in. But there’s this whole other world you don’t even know exists. And of course, you’re listening to this podcast so you do know that there is holistic medicine and that the body can heal itself. But there’s this whole other world that is waiting for us, and that’s 95% of reality out there is what you don’t know you don’t know. That’s the exciting part. So open your mind and let the unknown come in and show you that there’s another way of being that allows you to transform your life.

With today’s guest, it’s a little bit different. I had Joshua Rosenthal on the show back in episode 106, so that was quite a while ago. Joshua Rosenthal is the founder of IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and that’s a great episode. You should go back and check it out, episode 106.

When I first started the podcast, I had no idea what health coaching was. I looked down upon it because I didn’t respect it, I didn’t know what it was. And I had a health coach on the show. This was very early on, probably in the first 40 episodes. He told me about the school that he graduated from, IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and he said that it’s an online program. It’s been around since 1992 and they’re the world’s first health coach training program, also the world’s largest, and the most organized.

So I looked into it, I spoke with them, and that same day I enrolled. I went from being completely skeptical, but you know, open-minded, to just absolutely feeling that this was my path, that this was the next step for me. I learned so much about myself and about how to help people through that program. What I loved is that health coaching is not just eating apples, drinking water, and going for walks. Health coaching, most of it, is actually emotional counseling. It’s helping people to peel back the layers and really help themselves to bring joy and expression, love and vitality into every single area of their life, and to help balance every area of their life with that experience of joy.

The fun part about health coaching is that you help people—by asking the right questions—to uncover their joy in each area of their life. Even though you do learn 100 dietary theories in the health coaching program through IIN, most of the time you’re not even talking about food because so much of it is about our habits, behaviors, beliefs, and emotions. And so health coaching really is about helping someone achieve the goals that they set out for themselves.

What I like about IIN is that they are the most authentic company I’ve ever met. What they teach they also practice. So behind the scenes, I’ve actually had the CEO on the show as well. I’ve had a few of the staff members on the show, kind of just getting a glimpse, pulling back the curtain. I kind of love doing that, pulling back the curtain and seeing what goes on behind the scenes?

Well, today, we have another staff member who is high up in the company, and he gets to pull back the curtain a bit and show you what it means to have a truly holistic company. If you are a business owner, imagine how you can shape your business so that your employees and you have the most healthy experience. Now, they have a very low rate of attrition. They have a really profitable model because they actually invest in the health and well-being of their staff. And that’s really exciting because I see that they’re modeling something that is the wave of the future. If you can imagine every single business truly being holistic and taking care of their staff, how beautiful and how healed this world would be.

So enjoy today’s episode as you listen from the perspective of imagining this world, imagine a futuristic sci-fi where every single company treated their staff like IIN treats their staff, how neat that would be. And then if you’re interested in adding tools to your tool belt, I highly recommend checking out the free sample class. So you can go to That’s, and there you’ll get a free sample class and you can check out IIN yourself. We do talk a bit about the program. They have a 6-month program, they have a 12-month program. It’s a 12-month program, you can do part-time or full-time.

They also have smaller classes. They have newly adopted smaller classes, a few week-long classes if you are looking just to not become a health coach but looking to grow yourself. I love the health coach training program. About half of the people that go through it every year go through it just for their own personal growth and to help them become healthier and help them help just their family and friends. So that’s definitely something to check out. I highly recommend it.

And of course, IIN gives the listeners a really great price. So when you do talk to them, you can mention that you heard it from me, Ashley James, the Learn True Health podcast. And also use coupon code LTH most of the time when I interview someone. I asked them to get us a coupon code LTH and give the listeners a discount. And when you do, mention my podcast. They do give all the listeners a really, really great discount.

Awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing my podcast with those you care about. Come join the Learn True Health Facebook group, we’d love to see you there. Check out the IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition sample class. It was quite moving. I thought it was awesome. It’s free. Check it out. Go to Enjoy today’s interview.


[00:09:58] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 472. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have Jim Curtis on the show. Now, you are the Chief Marketing Officer, the Chief Brand Officer of IIN, is that correct? Is that how I say it?


[00:10:23] Jim Curtis: Yes. I handle the business side of things. So marketing, sales, community. I wear many hats here.


[00:10:32] Ashley James: Now, why that excites me to interview you is because this is a health podcast. We’re approaching 500 episodes. I’ve had many of the teachers that teach the students of IIN, IIN being the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, the school that I graduated from a few years ago. I graduated in 2017 I think it was. Time kind of flies. All of a sudden you look back and it’s been years and years, but I have interviewed many of the teachers that have made videos for the students of IIN. We’ve had actually hundreds of my listeners, either they already are graduates of IIN or they signed up and became students of the Institute for Integrative Nutrition after hearing my podcast, so it’s really exciting.

What I love about IIN is I walked in thinking I’m just going to learn a lot about nutrition and I learned so much. That was just such a fraction of the piece of the pie. I learned so much about myself, about creating really true happiness, and balance in every aspect of my life. There’s so much more in terms of fulfillment, emotional, spiritual, and mental health. Doesn’t that just really make so much sense when it comes to health coaching, right? It’s not about how many carrots you eat and how many glasses of water you drink. At the end of the day, if every other part of your life is falling apart and you’re miserable but you’re eating healthy, you’re still not achieving health.

So I love that I learned from my IIN how to help myself, my family, my clients, and my friends to find the things in each area of their life that they want to enrich and all the tools that I gained to help them do that. 

What I was excited about having you on the show, I’ve had your CEO on the show who was so amazing. I had the founder of IIN on the show, who I’m such a big fan of Joshua, and then to have you on the show. And of course, I’ve had graduates and I’ve had other staff members who share fun stories like you guys have free avocados for your employees. There’s a yoga and there’s a meditation room.

Your company believes in that work-life balance, and I think that if every company on the planet modeled themselves after IIN, we would have such a happier world. Companies would save money because they wouldn’t have such a high turnover rate of employees. I want to know more about you and the branding and marketing side of IIN because this isn’t like Amazon where you guys exhaust and work your employees to the bones. You are a company of the future. You are a company that I want to learn from because you’re a company that models holistic health for your employees and for your customers, for the students. It’d be really interesting, from a health perspective, to look at how IIN markets itself, brands itself, but also, I hear really exciting things are coming in 2022. I’m so excited to learn from you, welcome to the show.


[00:13:52] Jim Curtis: Oh, it’s so great to be here. I love all those things that you said about the business. It’s particularly important to me because, for 20 years, I’ve been a coach, a wellness teacher, and in business. I think that goes hand in hand for everybody who’s listening to this too who are both trying to run a coaching business or another wellness business and be the teacher in that business. So IIN is kind of a great example, and I think I’m a good example of my own career, how I brought the two together, and how we kind of help our students to bring the two together.

I think that some of our employees would disagree with you about working them to the bone because we work people so hard here and they work so hard here. But what we know is that oftentimes, we’re sacrificing and working the weekends because it has such a profound effect on the health of people. We can see it from a one-to-one basis meaning we will get a story written constantly of a student or a graduate that we’ve changed their life so dramatically and had such an impact that the hard work, the sacrifice, the late hours, and the weekends are worth it. So that’s kind of what we’re doing.

And yes, we do spend an enormous amount of money on avocados, more when we are actually in the office more often. We do have a chiropractor and acupuncturist. We cater a delicious lunch for everybody every day that people are in the office now. We’ll just shut the office for a week around the holidays or we’ll take all the employees on a trip where you don’t have to do any work or even meet. They just go out and have dinner. The last time it was in North Carolina. There are a lot of lifestyle elements, and of course, everybody in the company can take the courses. That’s some of the perks of IIN.


[00:15:53] Ashley James: I love it. Because when I was first looking into IIN, any staff member I spoke to when I called were also graduates, and I thought that that was really neat. I know it’s not every single staff member is a graduate, but more often than not, you throw a stone in IIN and you’re going to hit a graduate. They’re health coaches as well. So talking to them didn’t feel like a high-pressure sales call, which is what I was really expecting because I’ve called other companies who do online education and it felt like they were trying to sell me used car insurance. But with IIN, the conversation was more about my goals, where I want to see myself, how would this help me, and how would this help me help others. So the conversation was more about the ripple effect and the fulfillment that IIN can bring as a student and as a graduate.


[00:16:50] Jim Curtis: The authenticity in business is super important to us. I have so many students and grads writing to me just talking about how they position themselves as wellness pioneers and coaches with authenticity. Over the last two years since health coaching has become so popular, there’s been a lot of schools that pop up. We kind of look and say, are they walking their own walk? Are their employees actually trained health coaches, or is it you just sign up online and then go take your videos type of thing?

Ninety percent of our employees are trained by IIN, and then when you come and start at the company, you can take the course, which most people do. And we really believe in a path to employment. When people graduate from IIN, our alumni services help get them and show them job opportunities. So we partner with companies like Wellory and many others so that IIN graduates get hired first, and then we hire our graduates. 

We’ve hired hundreds of people who have graduated to be employees, and oftentimes, they don’t have the exact background that we need in business but we can teach them. We know that they’re amazing people and very well trained because they’ve been through our program for a year or in a very intensive six months. So that authenticity, that eat your own dog food type of saying is so true to us and important to us.


[00:18:35] Ashley James: You, before joining IIN, have been part of some major health brands that we would recognize. What was attractive about IIN that had you want to join and work for them? Because I think you could have had your pick of so many different companies.


[00:18:59] Jim Curtis: I was. I had started my own businesses and exited them. I’ve had a pretty successful career in business, and I could really choose where to go next. I was just a few blocks away in New York City from the IIN offices running a wellness center that I had started there with a partner, a med spa and a wellness center, and it was going well. Someone called me up and said this role is available at IIN and they’re interested in you. I was immediately interested because IIN is such a pervasive name and wellness for so long. They’ve created the health coaching field. They had all the major health influencers and leadership from the beginning and oftentimes built those careers, but they’re still relatively unknown. It’s kind of a niche thing that you get to know IIN when you get into that wellness world.

I had been in the world and I knew what a great brand it was. I had so many people in my life who had gone through the program that I immediately was interested. It was something that I saw that this could be a great project, and this could get very big under the leadership that was in place. Not only that, we could really expand upon that mission of changing the health of the world. I could see how it wasn’t just like a media company or another company that started that puts out information and then people read it. This is a direct contact with a person whose life you’re going to change. I wanted to do that for millions of people, so it was a really exciting project.


[00:20:52] Ashley James: So you joined IIN and then and then you took the course. You hadn’t yet taken the course. So while you were taking the course and working for IIN, what really surprised you about going through the health coach training program?


[00:21:09] Jim Curtis: Well, I thought that I was the expert, right? I was the speaker. I had started the business, I had done everything, and I thought that I was really the expert and that I wouldn’t learn much from the course, but I was very wrong. And also, I had known of the IIN brand, but I was impressed by it but not connected to it.

One, I learned firsthand that, okay, food really does change everything. I focused a lot on the mental aspects of wellness, the scientific aspects, or what’s trending in wellness in terms of devices or science or how do you change your mindset to be successful. I was what I thought was a healthy eater, but I started to cook more for myself. I started to incorporate far more whole foods, raw foods, and vegetables. I realized that I was eating out way too much. The oils that were inflammatory were a lot in my diet, and it just really changed everything in that respect for me. I started to really realize what food changes everything mean, so that really impacted me.

I started to realize that IIN can teach anybody something even if you think you’re an expert because it really taught me also how to hone my coaching skills. You can be an expert, you can be someone who comes to for advice, but it’s a whole nother ball game when you’re trained in coaching how to listen, how to how to actually lead someone through the coaching continuum where you leave with a result. That was really interesting to me.

And then I loved hearing Joshua talk about why the brand is the brand. What is integrative nutrition? That’s a term he coined. Nutrition is more than food. It’s everything that feeds you. It’s integrative from what feeds you spiritually, what feeds you in your relationships, what feeds you in your career, and how you move your body, what feeds you for exercise. And then, you start talking about what colors and foods are on your plate.

That was a huge impact on me. And even all the way to Joshua’s story about the color red and why IIN uses so much of it. How he was in India and he had traveled there for many, many years. He would study with the monks there and they all wore red robes. Red really signified one, the color of our blood and how everything that we consume becomes our blood, and how we all have the same color of blood. It’s an equality. We all have red blood. Our economic status or the color of our skin doesn’t affect our blood. It’s the equalizer and a connector.

He really wanted the red symbol—that is shaped like DNA, by the way—to be the hallmark of IIN and really stand for something. He also loved it because it was different. One thing IIN is always touted is fitting out. You don’t have to do what everybody does. Even though wellness is becoming much more accepted and much more mainstream, oftentimes, you’re kind of out there if you’re practicing Reiki and trying a new diet that only eats raw foods, vegan, vegetarian. He said it was important not to fit into the general society of the world that is pertaining to just one thing.


[00:24:55] Ashley James: I love that idea that the red represents what’s on the inside and everyone’s got the same thing. We’ve all got blood. I have a family member who’s in hospice right now and it’s having me really reflect on end of life and how none of us get out alive, right? Death is the real equalizer. It’s something that we’re all going to have at some point. What’s really important is how we live now. I think we get really caught up in the day-to-day minutia. We get dissociated from what’s in the now and we start becoming more like robots. They say human doings instead of human beings. And then all of a sudden we’re just highly unsatisfied.

The unconscious mind, that’s where most of us are stored. The unconscious mind doesn’t want us to just go with the flow, go with the motions day-to-day. Go to a job, pay a bill, come home, go to sleep, eat. Eat, sleep, eat, sleep, repeat. The unconscious mind, that’s where our values are and our desires are. Sometimes we stuff that down and what pops up is depression, sometimes physical pain. Physical pain can manifest in the body when we’re really just not living our path. It can feel so uncomfortable in the body. If we’re disconnected from it, it can become uncomfortable physically, but then uncomfortable emotionally and we don’t know where to put it, right?

Some people fall into illness because they’re not eating healthy and they seek out a health coach. And then if it’s an integrative nutrition health coach, that health coach is helping them analyze and look at all areas of their life and really listen to them. That’s what I love because it isn’t a program where you just are scripted and you’re just telling people what to do. You’re listening. You’re listening for the deepest layers of concern, right? You’re listening and you’re listening, and then you ask questions that help them dig deeper themselves.

It’s not about you talking at them. It’s kind of funny how as a health coach, how little talking we do. When you’re doing it really well, you’re asking the right questions that drill down and drill down and allow a person to see what’s beneath the layers that they themselves have, it’s been in their blind spot. Then they have their own aha moments and oftentimes they’ll even tell you what their homework is. When you’re really doing it well, all you’re doing is just being this amazing listener. You said that that’s a skill or a tool that you learned when you went through the IIN program.

I was so impressed with—before I did the program, I’m also a master practitioner and trainer of neuro-linguistic programming. I really feel like I’ve trained myself in listening, and IIN really had me slow down and listen even more, and listen even more, and listen even more. My husband who’s an introvert always says, God gave us one mouth and two ears so use them proportionally.


[00:28:15] Jim Curtis: Right. I love that. I mean, active listening is a real skill. You’ve almost become magnetic when you’re a great listener. When you’re listening more than you’re talking, it has more of an impact when you say something because people know that you’re really processing what they have to say, and that’s kind of what coaching is all about—learning those things.


[00:28:38] Ashley James: You said active listener. I’ve said in the show in the past (I think a few years ago), you know, some people have never ever actually been heard. And going to an integrative nutrition health coach, going to an IIN graduate may be the first time in their life that they’ve actually had someone truly hear them and truly listen without ulterior motive, without their judgments of their past. Just someone really authentically being 100% present to them. That in itself is so cathartic. It allows the person to slow down and really feel honored, respected, and heard as a human being. 

I feel like growing up, we’re constantly comparing ourselves to others, comparing yourself to the Kardashians, whoever’s on Instagram, or whoever was popular in school. I think everyone has that in their mind, maybe the imposter syndrome, or maybe they feel like there’s always someone who is better than them and so they’re not good enough, right?

They’ve never felt like just being honored as an individual because it is an even playing field. We all have the same color blood, and we’re all going to die. It is more about how we live in the now. We can cultivate physical things on the outside like I can have a lot of material goods, but that doesn’t leave me with anything that I’ve cultivated on the inside. But the more we cultivate on the inside, that’s something that can never be taken away from us.

That’s what I love about the health coaching program because it’s like 99% of it was called feeding on the inside, and then 1% of it was here’s like 100 different dietary theories. I thought it was going to be the opposite. I thought I was going to learn just a bunch of nutrition stuff. Boy, was I wrong. I love the program and the impact that it has. What are some other skills that you were surprised that you learned like active listening? Were there any other skills that you were really surprised that you learned when you went through the program?


[00:30:46] Jim Curtis: There is something called bio-individuality, meaning we go through life getting taught that this is the right diet for you. This is the way you should eat, this is what a diet is, and then there’s always this pull between keto is right or vegan is right, and you have these two groups. What I love is that it kind of bridges the gap there. Diets are ways of eating. When we say diet, I mean nutritional diet, not going on a diet. Ways of eating that are right for many different people.

Vegan may not be right for one person, but it could be right for another. As opposed to, okay, there’s this belief that everybody has to be vegan or everybody has to be keto. That was something that I learned. I was really impressed with the concept of crowding out, meaning we put a lot of pressure on good and bad, right? I’m bad, I didn’t exercise. I’m good, I exercised. I’m bad, I ate a doughnut. I’m good, I ate broccoli. There’s no good or bad, right? There’s food.

You can start to crowd out foods that make you feel better or worse. Meaning, if you’re used to drinking 12 Diet Cokes a day, start to drink 10 Diet Cokes and 2 glasses of water, or 6 glasses of water and 6 Diet Cokes until you crowd out the food that is making you feel less good, right? Instead of getting really down on yourself for having the food, understand that you’re a work in progress and that what you’re consuming is just food and we put the good and bad on it, and that we want to consume more things that give our body and our cells more energy. I always really love those types of things, which I didn’t think of in that way before. I’ve always been, I feel guilty, emotional eater type of person, and that really set the stage for me.

The other thing I noticed with the program is that you don’t have to become a health coach, right? A lot of people are doing this just for them. Although I did some coaching and I’ve always been a coach, I did the program and it affected me profoundly as an individual and how I was relating to people. I didn’t actually have to go and be a full-time health coach. By the way, integrative means that you’re also life coaching. This is not just food. This is life coaching and health coaching in one, but you don’t have to do that.

A lot of people just do it to start with them. They’d use it to coach themselves, their families, or their friends. Some people write books. There’s a book in everyone, and some people say, I’m doing this so I can be more credible or have more information when I want to write my book, my health story. Some people nowadays even become health influencers. They start a content-driven media type of health influencing in the sense of they’re reaching millions of people on a massive scale or hundreds of people, it doesn’t matter how many people. It’s just how you’re reaching them with health information. That’s very much what you’re doing, which I’m impressed with. Those were all things that I learned very quickly.


[00:34:36] Ashley James: And hospitals are hiring health coaches, insurance companies are hiring health coaches. My insurance company offers me a free health coach through my insurance because they see it saves them money when someone is actively going through health coaching, they’re working towards achieving their health and wellness goals, and then they don’t end up going on a bunch of medications and costing them money. So they would rather pay upfront for preventive medicine, which is what health coaching can be because it can help us to go from feeling good to feeling great or feeling great to feeling awesome. But most people wait until there’s a pain point, and the pain point doesn’t have to be physical health. It can be dissatisfaction with their marriage, with their work, with their body image to be able to go to an integrative nutrition health coach and work on those areas.

You’re not allowed to call it counseling because of how they define counseling now, but it was once called counseling back in the day before they changed the rules of what you’re allowed to call counseling and not call counseling. But like I said, with active listening, you’re really just guiding that person and helping them to get to the root. I love that.

Take us to the environment of the Institute for Integrative Nutrition and share with us what changes, what improvements have you made since you joined the team?


[00:36:25] Jim Curtis: Well, what can I say to that? The changes that I’ve really made since being here are accessibility, meaning we have provided a lot more content for free. People can come on our Instagram, YouTube, webinars, or lives that I do. So I’m constantly interviewing our visiting teachers so people can have access to them on a live basis, whether it’s a webinar, an Instagram Live, it’s a live event for the community, or it’s a special event for the community that people go to. So there’s a lot more access for people who aren’t students for free content. And then there’s a lot more community access for the graduates and the students so that they can interact, get information, and talk with me, so that’s one thing.

We’ve gone a lot deeper into business. The folks that are like, I’m really good at coaching or I’ve learned a lot and I’m ready to start my wellness career but I really don’t know the first thing about business, we do a lot to help people along the way. You can now just sign up online. You know what we’re finding is that a lot of people are younger that are signing up and they’re of the generation that doesn’t like phone calls. They just want to sign up online, not talk to anybody, and communicate via chat and email. We accommodate and do that now a lot more.

What has made the biggest impact here is that we’ve hired a lot more people at the company. The company’s size has grown so that we have a lot more touchpoints with alumni services, with student success. We are constantly creating new courses. We have two new specialty courses on Whole Person Health with Deepak Chopra and Detox Your Life so that we have more people to service the students more often, and we have more content that is either cheap or is less expensive and free. That’s the impact that I hope that I’ve made, that I’ve made it more accessible for many more people.


[00:38:48] Ashley James: Well, it sounds like there’s a lot more courses and content since I graduated. Back when I joined, there were I think three courses. It was the main one, you had to take the main one first, which was yearlong at the time. For me, I invested about 20 minutes a day, or if I got really busy in my life I would spend an entire Sunday afternoon once a week and Sunday afternoon evening going through and studying. But day-to-day, I could listen to the lectures in the car, while I’m doing laundry, while I was cooking. I was able to fit in the training for a whole year in my very busy schedule being a career mom and all the stuff I do.

So many people have asked me, do you think I could do this? I have a family and a career, or I’m a student and they have a family or whatever? I say, yeah, I think anyone who wants to do this could do this because you can do the training while you’re doing tasks as long as you can listen. You don’t even have to necessarily watch. Although there are slides and there’s a person on stage sometimes.

What I would do is I download the slides, I’d look at them, then I’d listen to the lecture, and then I’d go back and look at the slides. If I’m, for example, driving or exercising, I definitely do it while I was exercising like if I was on the machine. And cooking, I just have it on the speaker and then I’d go and pop my head over and look at the slide when they reference something.

It is available to people. It is accessible to busy people, and it was designed for busy career moms basically, who could fit it in 20 minutes or 30 minutes a day. And then you guys came out with—and there’s a few other courses. There was a write your own book course and I think there was like an autoimmune. There are advanced courses that someone who was a graduate could take. And then after I graduated, you guys came out with a six-month-long program basically condensing it so someone could be considered a full-time student. Although, I still think you could have a career and be a “full-time” student with IIN given that it’s in six months. So now you have all these other trainings. Are there training that people can take before they become an integrative health coach? Could you explain that, walk us through that?


[00:41:17] Jim Curtis: Certainly. You’re absolutely right. I mean, you did a great job balancing everything, and I think that we try to make the program so you can. But also so that you still have contact with over phone calls and now a lot more virtual Zoom type of stuff. And then live events, we’re still meeting in person less but still doing it. Now there’s a Spanish course. So if you only speak Spanish, there’s Spanish Assist, so there’s been a lot of enhancements.

You don’t have to go through the health coach training program anymore to say I want to take a course. We have short-form courses like Whole Person Health, which in over seven weeks you can learn from Deepak Chopra and others. It’s less than $500. I think Detox Your Life where you find out how to remove toxins from your food, from your home, and from the people around you, that is under $300. We also have courses on emotional eating, hormone health, gut health, and even business courses that you can take. Oftentimes, you don’t have to be a grad.

There is an advanced licensing course that oftentimes graduates take so that they can sit for the advanced licensing of a third-party accreditation. You do have to be a grad for that. But there are many courses now that you don’t have to be a grad of the 6- or 12-month course to take, and that’s part of the accessibility that we wanted to offer this to more people in the world.


[00:42:58] Ashley James: That’s really exciting. For those shorter courses that are more specific, do you find that people then graduate and then join to become a holistic health coach, that they see the benefit in continuing to study with IIN?


[00:43:13] Jim Curtis: In some cases, yeah. In some cases, people work on their wellness a little bit slower, so it’s different for everybody and that’s really apropos to what we’re all about. We want to deliver the wellness that is right for you. So in some cases, people will go on and say that was amazing. I want more, and they go on to take the health coach certification course, which is the health coach training program and they do really well. Others say, I like that but I’m going to go on to take the Hormone Health course, or I’m super interested in the Gut Health course because I have gut health problems. I see you’re working with a company called Seed. I love that probiotic. They give a supplemental course to that too so they go on and do it. It’s really what meets your needs, and that’s important to us.


[00:44:11] Ashley James: I love it. Now your background is in business and so you’ve obviously had an impact on the new business training that IIN provides for health coaches. That’s actually something I’ve seen in my past. I’ve been in this industry since I was a teenager. Actually, I took all the courses that I could with Landmark Education and became a coach through many of their programs, and then I was hired to be on staff in my early 20s with Landmark Education. Then I went on to study neuro-linguistic programming and did coaching through that until I found IIN. 

One thing I’ve learned working with training coaches because I did that through Landmark and then also through neuro-linguistic programming, I saw that the biggest problem was that they didn’t know how to market themselves. They didn’t know how to grow a business. There’s a stigma around money, business, and charging people. They felt kind of like, I don’t know what to charge people. Their tools would change someone’s life, would completely change someone’s life. I mean, you can’t quantify that, right?

I mean, you don’t want to charge too little because they don’t take it seriously. You don’t want to charge too much. And then there’s a person worth, right? The health coach feels like there’s this, what am I worth? I don’t want to charge that much because I don’t want people to say no. They go through this fear because there are so many negative stigmas around money, charging, and knowing what you’re worth, but also creating a fair business model so that you have a mutual win-win. You really have to face a mirror and look at yourself, look at all the negative emotions and looming decisions around money when you’re getting into doing your own business. What kind of advice can you give health coaches when it comes to these kinds of concerns?


[00:46:13] Jim Curtis: It’s really common. First off, don’t feel like it’s just you. I did all the Landmark courses too, by the way. I love Landmark. I started with them when I was 19 years old and I moved to New York City. I took a year off of college because I was dealing with an illness and I moved to New York City and I started Landmark. It’s just, I mean, really wonderful and impactful. I can see how that would lead to IIN because it’s very much about rapid transformation.

When people go through this course and they start to say, am I worth it? Am I ready to be a coach? And then if I’m selling wellness, should I really be charging? How do you combine those two? Because oftentimes, people see sales as a dirty word and wellness as the good word so they want to give it for free. But here’s the important thing. One is you’ve been through the training, you’re there to help someone, you deserve fair compensation for that. 

Sales is really a service. I mean, if you’re selling something that’s hurting people, if you’re selling cigarettes or junk food, yeah, I can understand you’re doing the marketing that is tricking people into something that’s not great for them. But you’re providing a service. Your sales is a service that’s helping people change and better their lives, and then better the lives of the people around you.

Knowing that your mission is really beneficial for the world is the first step. Knowing that you are uniquely positioned because one, you want to do it, you have a desire and a passion to do it, and because you’ve been trained to do it. But sometimes, you just have to go through the fear and know that you are the one, believe it, start to do it, and it becomes very real to you. And that you’re worth it. You need to be financially stable to make people financially stable. You need to be working on your finances and your health so that you can help other people with that.

I always lead people to Marianne Williamson’s book called The Law of Divine Compensation. And in The Law of Divine Compensation, it really talks about there are real rules around exchange of energy and receiving payment for the service that you’re doing. That’s a great book to read for anybody that’s kind of struggling with this, and that’s kind of how I approach it. We work with a lot of students. I particularly work with a lot of students on that because it’s common, and if you’re feeling that, you’re not alone at all and you can overcome it.


[00:48:56] Ashley James: Do you have to be an IIN grad to take business training, or do you have business training at any health coach they graduate from anywhere take?


[00:49:09] Jim Curtis: We have business training that any health coach who graduated from anywhere take. We have the Advanced Business course. We’re constantly updating our course. It’s been around for 30 years, but every year, we add new content, change things, and we have more business in the course now. Then I do a lot of free training. People can sign up for webinars with me. I, on Instagram, every Thursday do business basics where I answer questions. We know that having confidence and understanding your value and how you’re contributing to the world is an issue sometimes, so we do a lot to help train people on that.


[00:49:50] Ashley James: Now what I loved about the IIN program, back when I took it it was 12 months long. Within the first half, you’re learning how to do health coaching, but then you actually start working with people halfway through. The rest of the program is like fine-tuning that and teaching you how to grow your business. It’s not like IIN just teaches you how to be a health coach then throws you to the wolves like, okay, grow your business, bye. You’re actually growing your business. Something that Juliet, she was the person that helped me on the phone because that was before you guys had a robot on the website.


[00:50:26] Jim Curtis: She’s still here.


[00:50:27] Ashley James: Juliet’s amazing. I love talking to her. For those listeners who just sign up online, you should just give them a call just to experience it because I really had a blast talking to Juliet. She was so helpful and I called her many times asking her questions. She was always a wonderful resource. I really love her. She said, you know, the most successful IIN students pay off their entire program before graduating. I said, really? She said, yeah, because you start working with clients halfway through, and so then you’ve got another six months of growing your business and being trained to. You have IIN teachers to talk to and to connect with. You get to grow while there’s kind of a safety net because you’re still in the school, and I thought that was really cool.

Then of course, with your full time course, it’s after three months of doing it then you start growing your business for the next three months while you’re still in the program. I just like that IIN always creates a soft place to land while someone is completely changing their career path.

Now, I’ve heard something like 50% of graduates don’t go on to become health coaches. They did it purely for their own personal growth, which I can totally see doing that or to augment it or just bring tools to what they already do. So about half of the graduates do go on to become health coaches, and many of them then want to start their own business. There are so many mediums, like you said. You could become a content creator, write a book, do social media, work for a hospital, or work for a clinic. I know so many clinics now where they have a health coach with a chiropractor, with a doctor because it’s looking at the person as a whole.

There are a lot of opportunities out there, whereas I don’t think 15 years ago it didn’t even exist then, even 10 years ago. There are so many more opportunities now. I heard Joshua say about two years ago, he said that this is the number one growing field in the health space.


[00:52:39] Jim Curtis: Coaching is, if you look at the jobs report, one of the number one growing professions. We’ve transcended just health. It’s like, okay, coaching is something that people want to do, why? It’s because people are looking for a purpose in their lives. This allows you to make a great living while serving something greater than you, and that is other people serving a bigger purpose. That’s changing the health of the really sick United States. Although we’re in 175 countries, the United States is the most ill of 133 million people suffering from diabetes or obesity. It’s a place that really needs health coaches and so in demand.

We talk about all the different things health coaches can do, and I always say set up multiple revenue streams, meaning see some clients directly one-on-one. Work part time. There are so many tech companies now hiring health coaches like Wellory or Kensho, wellness centers like The Well or even hospitals like Cleveland Clinic. Mark Hyman says he only hires health coaches from IIN, same with Frank Lippmann hires IIN health coaches. There are many different ways, many revenue streams, we say, as a health coach that you can become really financially stable doing what you love and something good for the world.


[00:54:10] Ashley James: I love it. I love it. Are there any testimonials that you feel really connected to? You say that people write in all the time. Maybe in terms of the business training that you give, do you have a testimonial that you feel you’ve earned because you’ve had a direct impact on the lives of the students?


[00:54:37] Jim Curtis: You know, we have so many of them. I just read a three-page testimonial yesterday about a woman who started IIN during a really difficult time because her daughter was diagnosed with cancer. She was ill, she was having trouble with what she was doing and her finances, and she knew she had to make some changes. She wrote literally a three-page letter about IIN and how it really gave direction and opened the doors that she took that changed the rest of her life. I hear that so often. We put them up on our site and we have thousands of people commenting on Trustpilot and that kind of thing.

But even when I just interviewed some of these folks that have become superstars like Melissa Wood or the founders of Sakara Life, I could name even Bobbi Brown cosmetics, they talk about how IIN was really the jumping-off point that allowed their lives to change. They dedicated themselves to this study, and by opening that door, it opened up so many other doors. Whether it was in their career or in their health. 

I wish I had them in front of me to read, but we have our admissions reps who are all IIN graduates and we go over every week, who did you speak with? Because we’d love to hear the stories. We have women that are grandmothers, they’re in their 80s. During the pandemic, their daughters and their grandchildren came to live with them and she took the course because she wanted to make sure that she was cooking right for them. She was into wellness, she had retired, and she wanted something to do. I love that story.

There was one woman who had diabetes and she lost her fingers due to diabetes. Her daughter had juvenile diabetes and she’s like, okay, this stops here. I’m not going to see my daughter lose her fingers. She started the course. And then sometimes you see families go in together like mother and daughter to take the course together. Guess what, we even have some guys now. We have a lot more doctors and a lot more people from sports. We have Olympic athletes, we have ex-NFLers, and we have a lot more men signing on. Before it was 100% women and now it’s about 90% women. Even guys are getting into this a little bit.


[00:57:18] Ashley James: That’s funny because the person I interviewed when I first learned about IIN, it was on my show. It was the first year I was doing my show and I interviewed a graduate of IIN. He was talking about how he reversed his ADHD that he had had since he was a kid with food. At the time, honestly, I was really skeptical of this title health coach. I thought it was hokey. I thought anyone called themselves a health coach. I had no idea, I had no concept as to what it was. I asked him in the interview where did he learn from? He told me about IIN and I signed up that day after the interview.

I talked to my husband. I mean, it’s a major commitment, right? For me it was a year-long commitment, it’s a financial commitment. But after that I called Juliet, I had a few conversations with her. I picked through the website—super impressed by all of the visiting teachers. I was like, oh my gosh, these are all the people I look up to and learn from anyway. I love these people. I read their books. I watch their YouTube videos. I talked to my husband, he was like, why are you still talking to me? Go, sign up. Start, do it. I was just in love with the program.

But it’s so funny how that morning I woke up and health coaching wasn’t on my radar. When I heard the word, I don’t know, I poo-pooed it because I didn’t know what it was and so I thought it was hokey. By the end of the day, I’m like, yes, I’m becoming a health coach. This is amazing. It was so funny.


[00:58:51] Jim Curtis: That’s awesome. At one time, chiropractic and acupuncture were considered hokey too, and then insurance started covering it, it became more accessible to people, and they saw the real benefits from it. That’s what’s happening with health coaching right now as well.


[00:59:05] Ashley James: Right. Has there been any traction in terms of insurance covering graduates of IIN?


[00:59:14] Jim Curtis: Well, it’s in the process. Right now, one insurance is called CPT Codes. It’s in the code process where they’re collecting data. They will make the case that health coaching increases health outcomes. And then from there, they submit for coverage. So that usually takes a couple of years and it’s been a year and a half in. IIN, unlike any other school, has lobbyists in DC that are working on healthcare bills and getting health coaching inserted into those bills, and we’re making real progress.

We’re, as a company, just trying to move it in general. We’re not setting up an online training with videos just so that we can make money. We’re trying to change the health of the world, and that includes hiring lobbyists and people that work for the company to represent health coaches in DC, in government, and move the insurance process forward. So it’s happening.


[01:00:19] Ashley James: I hope my listeners now understand. This is why I was excited to have you on the show because it’s not just a company that wants to make money off of you. When you look at other companies like I look at Amazon, you feel like they’re just like, give me your wallet. Just give me your wallet. You get convenience out of it, but there really doesn’t feel like there’s this huge humanitarian effort behind it. Whereas when you look at IIN, you guys want to change the world, and you’re doing it and you’re working on it.

I know that when I first signed up that night, I have a really clear memory of watching the first modules crying tears of joy. My mirror neurons were just firing. I felt the oxytocin and the sense of connection and community as Joshua was starting the whole year. There’s a huge audience. Even though I’m watching a video, I felt like I was in that audience. I’m brought back to that moment just crying because I felt like this is it. We are here to make a difference in the world. This is my mission and I am on this path with all these people.

Every graduate, whether they go on to be a health coach or not, they are part of that ripple that wants to make a difference in this world. That is so exciting to be part of this bigger picture together as a collective moving forward, having this common goal of helping people live happier, healthier lives in all aspects of their life. I would just love it if we could take the model that IIN uses and duplicate it for all companies in the world.

In closing, I’d love for you to share—you’ve been with so many companies. You started companies, you’ve been with major, major companies, and what’s the difference? When you first walked into it IIN, walked into the building, what is the sense, the ambiance of IIN versus all the other businesses that you’ve worked with?


[01:02:33] Jim Curtis: Well, people really feel a responsibility. Everybody feels a responsibility, meaning the content they create, the people that we partner with, everybody is really concerned with, does this fit the mission? There’s nothing that we launch, partner with, teacher that comes on, or even if we’re writing something that’s about staff picks because the staff may love some products and we want to communicate them. There has to be a group consensus, meaning, is this to the benefit of the people that we’re talking to? Does this give a holistic view of it? Does it pertain to bio-individuality?

People really feel that they can make a difference in the product and that their view matters because it does because everybody here has a health coach. So it’s really important that we’re living up to what we teach. It’s a business. Sometimes it’s hard. Sometimes we’re working really hard hours and we’re hitting deadlines. It’s for-profit for sure, so we have to be financially healthy just like our health coaches do. But what’s different here is that there is real care and concern, it’s not just a job, and that to me means everything.


[01:04:09] Ashley James: That is so cool. I love it. Thank you so much, Jim Curtis, for coming on the show and sharing about IIN. I know there’s a lot in the hopper, and I know that there’s a lot we can’t talk about, but is there anything you can talk about future projects that are in the hopper?


[01:04:25] Jim Curtis: Stay tuned. There’s more coming, that’s what I’ll say. There’s definitely more coming from IIN that will blow your socks off, just stay tuned.


[01:04:33] Ashley James: Yeah, I’m really excited and I’m bummed we can’t talk about it. But like you said, stay tuned, it’s happening soon. I’m very excited. Now, listeners can go to That takes them to a page where they can get a free module from IIN. They can check it out and get a feel for the training. I recommend listeners do that. Jim, is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?


[01:04:57] Jim Curtis: Well, I just want to say, thank you so much. I’m proud of you as a student that’s doing so many amazing things and inspiring so many people on the platform that you’ve built. It’s really impressive, and thanks for having me on.


[01:05:10] Ashley James: Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on. I know you’re super busy. You’re doing really great work. I’m very proud of IIN. Again, I keep saying that this is the model I wish all other businesses were, but could you imagine if all for-profit businesses looked at the ecology of their community, their customers, and the planet? Ecology means that it’s healthy, that it takes everything into account, right? If any company, if a farm, let’s say, said is this ecological for us to spray this on the food versus do a different kind of farming that doesn’t require any chemical. If every company really started with, is this an ecological decision for my community, for my employees, for the planet?

Can you imagine if Amazon took into account the health of their employees and the health of their customers, how different would this world be? And so I love that IIN really for me, yes, it’s a for-profit company and that’s exactly what I want it to be because I want it to be the example that all other companies should look to to see that there can be a profitable business that takes care of its employees and its customers and looks to make the world a better place.

Thank you so much for being part of this project, and I can’t wait to see what IIN can create in the future. I’m thrilled that you guys are shaping the health industry. There’ll be a day when insurance will pay for someone to see an IIN grad. And that level of satisfaction, growth, happiness, and balance that that person receives and it’ll all be because of the money that you guys invested in lobbying and that you guys invested in marketing. So I thank you for all the work that you’re doing now that’s going to have such a profound impact for generations to come.


[01:07:01] Jim Curtis: Thanks. I appreciate that.


[01:07:04] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview about IIN and looking behind the scenes, learning more about the health coaching training program. If you’d like to check out the sample class, go to and check it out.

If you have any questions for me, feel free to reach out to me you can join the Learn True Health Facebook group. We have dozens of health coaches in the Learn True Health Facebook group, probably hundreds now. We’re almost at 4,000 members. It’s a really amazing group of holistic-minded people. You can come in and ask questions and get a lot of fantastic feedback from me and from all the other people out there as well, the community, the listeners have joined the group. Several guests actually have joined the group and like sharing and helping out as well.

But if you have any questions about IIN, you can ask it in the Facebook group, and not only will you hear from me, but you’ll also hear from a lot of listeners who’ve graduated from the program and have gone on to help their friends and family, have built careers around it. There are also people who are already in the health business in some capacity and used it just to grow their tool belt. You can use it as a launching pad to completely change your career path and start a new one, or if you’re already on a career path, you can use these tools to aid yourself.

What I love about this episode though is this idea that we could take this model and we could replicate it for every business to flourish, to grow. Imagine if every business’s number one priority along with income, along with profit, right? Every business wants profit. But imagine if they said, okay, we want to make a profit and we want to take care of our employees as much as we value taking care of our customers.

Could you imagine how better this world would be if profit, taking care of customers, and taking care of the staff was equally as important? Because the staff who feel taken care of then, in turn, takes care of the client, the customer better and takes care of the company better. Everyone’s healthier, everyone’s happier. I just think that this is such a needed thing. That’s why I love interviewing staff to learn more about IIN’s business model.

Thank you so much for listening to this show. Thank you so much for sharing it with your friends. Come join the Learn True Health Facebook group. I’d love to hear from you. And again, check out the sample class. It’s awesome, Have a fantastic rest of your day.


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