Jenny Fenig And Ashley James


  • Lunar cycle in a nutshell
  • Yoga’s purpose is to achieve mastery over the mind
  • Ayurveda body types: vata, pitta, kapha
  • Eliminate toxic elements
  • Importance of breathing


How does the moon affect our lives? In this episode, Jenny Fenig explains the lunar cycle and how we can incorporate it into our lives. Jenny shares how we can manage our time better daily. She also explains the importance of breathing, grounding, and listening to the body.



Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Today we have entrepreneur, coach, and homeschooling mom, Jenny Fenig. What I love about her message is she is a very successful, busy entrepreneur, busy mom, busy homeschooling mom, and also a fantastic coach. She figured out how to pack in all these activities while working from home, while taking care of her kids in homeschooling. She figured out how to do it, and she loves teaching others how to make this transition. I thought it’d be great to get some wonderful guidance from her.

As you’re listening to Jenny, if you think to yourself, I would love to be a coach. I would love to help others mentally, emotionally, and physically become healthier, become more fulfilled in their lives, and be able to gain more joy. I’d love to work with clients to help them achieve their life and health goals; then I highly recommend checking out IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. I took IIN’s program. It’s a year-long health coach training program. It’s 100% done online. They also have an accelerated 6-month program for those that want to be full-time students.

The year-long program is designed for busy people, and you can fit it in about 20 minutes a day. I’d like to do it in the evenings or sometimes I’d listen and do the coursework while I was driving, exercising, folding laundry, or cooking dinner, but I was able to get it in with my busy schedule. It’s absolutely fantastic. IIN’s program is life-changing. About half the students that do it do it for personal growth, which is pretty phenomenal. You could do it for your own personal growth, but of course, I did it because I also wanted to help my clients. I want to gain new tools to help them as a health coach, and they even train you on how to start your own business and become a successful health coach, which is really exciting. So not only do they teach you how to help your clients with mental, emotional, and physical health; gaining life goals; and increasing joy and fulfillment in every aspect of their lives. You’re also taught how to find clients that would resonate with your coaching style, and that clients you would just feel incredibly fulfilled and happy to work with. It’s a wonderful program. 

I partnered up with IIN and they give a huge discount to the listeners of the Learn True Health podcast. So you can just google IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and when you give them a call, most of their staff have actually gone through the program and become integrative health coaches. What you can do is you can talk to them. They’ll help you work out your goals in terms of becoming a health coach and joining their program and then when you mention my name, Ashley James with the Learn True Health podcast, you will be given a huge discount. A few times a year, they do have some great specials as well, so always be on the lookout for that.

If you’d like to try their program for free, there’s a module that they give you for free. Go to That’s Sign up, put your name and email, and then you’ll be given a module for free. You can just put your toe in the water, try it out, and see if it’s something that resonates with you. See if it’s something that’s right for you. It was absolutely incredible when I did it. I highly recommend it. There have been over 100 of the listeners that I know of that have reached out to me that have told me that they’ve been through the program. A lot of them, because they heard about it through me through the podcast, so I’ve had a lot of people reach out to me and share that they’ve absolutely loved their experience with IIN. It’s a wonderful stepping stone because you can go and specialize in other things. You can specialize in gut health or mental health. There are just so many ways so that you can specialize as a health coach, which is really exciting.

You become a health coach, but there are so many tools that they teach you around life coaching because health encompasses every aspect of our life. IIN is not about counting calories or teaching you how many grams of protein are in something. That’s not what IIN is about. It’s about giving you the real tools to help make huge differences in people’s lives, in working with clients to help them become more fulfilled in every aspect of their life. Check it out. Go to Get your free module. And when you call IIN, make sure you mention my name Ashley James and Learn True Health podcast so you can get access to the great special that they give all the listeners.

Thank you so much for being a listener of the Learn True Health podcast. Please come join our Facebook group. It’s a wonderfully supportive community for holistic-minded people. Just search Learn True Health on Facebook. Thank you for sharing these episodes with those you care about so we can help everyone to Learn True Health.


Photo by Raychan on Unsplash


[00:05:26] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 444. I’m so excited for today’s guest. We have Jenny Fenig. Her website is All the links that Jenny has are going to be the show notes with today’s podcast at Jenny’s going to teach us today how to co-create with the cosmos and align ourselves with the energy of nature to help us achieve what we want to achieve in life. Also, there’s a bit of—from what I understand—tapping into your human potential, tapping into your life purpose. It’s going to be a really fun and light-hearted episode. I’m looking forward to it. Welcome to the show.


[00:06:15] Jenny Fenig: Thanks so much. I’m excited to be here, Ashley.


[00:06:18] Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. What led you down the path to becoming an expert at co-creating with the cosmos?


[00:06:26] Jenny Fenig: Well, that’s a good question. I think the larger conversation is looking at how I’ve experienced so much loss in my life and so much death. We’re just going to go there. I mean life is death is life is death is life. We go through so many deaths in a lifetime. Death of an identity, a particular career path, a place that you used to live that isn’t working for you anymore, or what have you. For me, when I was 16 years old, I experienced the death of a significant person in my life. That person was my sister Julie—still is my sister Julie. Energy is energy. I absolutely have a strong connection with her still to this day. It’s been over 25 years since she died. But that experience of wow, life is so mysterious and it’s not “fair.” It’s not what you thought it was going to be, yet it all is lining up for your biggest opportunities to grow, to learn, to be who you came here to be, and do what you came here to do.

With that death of my sister when she was 12 and I was 16—she died of cancer—I just skyrocketed into this experience of grief, loss, and what just happened? This isn’t supposed to happen. This goes against the natural order. And then six months later, my best friend’s brother died. That was just another example of what? These things aren’t supposed to be happening. At that point, we were seniors in high school. You’ve been looking forward to this moment your whole life. I grew up in the south in Georgia and Florida. At that point, I was living in Florida. This friend and I had just gotten onto homecoming court, which is this dream that we had. It felt like such a big deal.

My sister had died earlier that year and then her brother dies that fall, and it was just this bizarre experience of this feeling that I hadn’t ever felt before ever, and then no one can prepare you for it. It allowed me to go really deep into my own process, my own faith, and my own questioning of all of it, really all of it. My sister was quite connected to God, and that was not anything that I really knew much about, to be honest with you. That was her thing. It was my dad’s thing, but it just was something I witnessed from afar like what’s that all about? I don’t really understand what you all are talking about. And then once my sister died and I had this huge pain and then my best friend’s brother died, you go deeper into this hole. That’s what it felt like just sitting with this and trying to understand something that can’t really be understood in a logical rational way.

As I journey forward going on to college and just doing my best to keep showing up—keep showing up for the work, keep showing up for my talent, keep showing up for my ambition—I kept being led to the places I was supposed to be, the people I was supposed to meet, the experiences I was supposed to have so that I could do what I’m here to do. What was fascinating was early on in my sophomore year—that best friend whose brother had died our senior year of high school—that best friend died. 

I basically had three deaths in three years from the time I was 16 to 19. I wouldn’t wish that on people. It’s very, very challenging as you can imagine, but it cracked me wide open and it allowed me to really come to this place of I am still here because my work is not done. I am going to really feel the energy of these people who meant so much to me. I know that they’re guiding me on because this work that I’m here to do, you’re here to do, and we’re all here to do, it requires all of us. It requires all of us to be awake. It requires all of us to be courageous. It requires all of us to approach each day like it is a gift because it is, and to go after the things that you’re most meant to do.

Once I moved on into my career, I moved to New York City after I graduated from the University of Florida. I found my way into the career of public relations. I thought I had struck gold. This was a thing I was here to do. I’m working at this major agency, on these big clients, and eventually traveling globally on these big projects. Although it was exciting and I felt like I was at a good place and working on interesting projects and with interesting people, I had this feeling inside, which was really me connecting with that small still voice within to come face to face with the truth. The truth was this isn’t what I was supposed to be doing.

It was such a tough pill to swallow because it looked good on paper. It looked really good on paper. You try to ignore it. You try to just push it away, push it down, and question yourself. I thought there was something wrong with me. I wondered why I couldn’t be satisfied or I couldn’t be happy when other people might think this was fine or awesome. But that small still voice within just kept nudging me along, nudging me along to say, Jenny, this isn’t it. You got to keep going. You got to keep looking. And most importantly, you’ve got to take care of yourself. 

That environment that I was in, I graduated from college in 1999. You can go back to that point in time. The internet was very new, so there were no social media. That wasn’t taking our time, but when you worked on these big projects, I had to be at work a lot and I worked a lot. I was under a tremendous amount of pressure and stress. It’s not something that I found to be healthy, sustainable, or desirable.

A big breakthrough for me was that I realized I had to start taking better care of myself. I really needed to learn how to mother myself, nurture myself, take a pause, take time, and not feel like I was racing all the time. You asked the question of how did I really find this work. I found the work by diving headfirst into the work that I felt I was here for and was talented at but then realizing that it didn’t quite hit the mark. 

The way that I had to like deconstruct it and figure out what was a better path for me was to choose health, to choose vitality, and to choose to trust that small still voice within, which has continuously guided me on. It guided me to eventually quit that job, move into a different job, which is a thing I didn’t even know was a thing until I found it. I moved out of public relations and into conference producing, which again it just kind of fell in my lap when I was in sheer desperation to get me out of here, I can’t do this anymore. 

That opened me up to interesting thinkers, thinking like an entrepreneur, acting like an entrepreneur, putting on these big events, solving problems in the market, and just understanding that I really can do anything that I want to do. I just have to decide what that is. I believe that’s true for your listeners as well. We are in a choice. We can come into this place of I have these distinct skills. I have these gifts. I have these talents. When we can really blend everything up and understand what problems we solve in the market and then communicate with an audience that is excited for us to help them solve that problem, then amazing things happen.

A big pathway for me—I know your show is really a lot about health, vitality, and all the different ways—was I dove headfirst into yoga those first few years in New York. Once I could afford to belong to a gym, I started taking yoga classes. I took my first one in college. I thought it was the weirdest thing ever, and I wasn’t ready for it. But then once I was ready for it, in those New York City days, I realized it was a source of comfort and a source of peace. It made my body feel so good. I allowed myself to just feel that and to come to this place of oh my goodness. When you’re in a yoga class, you’re not competing at all. I thought so much of my life I had been competing. That was the game, you competed. When you’re in yoga, it’s not about competition. It’s really about being present with yourself, what’s going on that particular day, and honoring that.

By following that path to yoga, eventually, I got this download to train to become a yoga teacher. I didn’t know where that was going to take me, but I trusted it. Again, that small still voice within, I trusted it. I said, okay, let’s see. Let’s see what happens when I commit myself to 200 hours of training on anatomy, on yoga philosophy, on the different asanas on meditation on just that whole realm. Once I did that, the next level of my career opened up, and I discovered the field of coaching. That has just taken me on this incredible path, this incredible journey. I realized that serving women was my passion. 

As I got deeper into my study and work with women, I remembered how connected we are to the moon and the way our bodies are designed. They’re so intelligently designed. The way the lunar cycle is designed, the way nature is designed, there’s such intelligence and such wisdom in that. When we can tap into that wisdom, we come into that place of alignment. That is something I practice. That is something I teach. And that is something I want to remind everyone of. It’s very much been taken away. We live in such a society with technology and go, go, go, you’re falling behind, and all of it. Nature’s never behind, you know what I’m saying? It’s not behind. When I look outside, my trees aren’t like oh my gosh, I don’t have enough leaves yet. Or this tree is bigger than me and I must be less than. Nature is just so sure of who it is, and it’s always right on time. I find there’s such wisdom in that. It’s something I love talking about.


[00:18:27] Ashley James: Can you take us back to the moment when you realize that there was an energy of the moon to tap into? And explain how you figured it out and how it helped you.


[00:18:41] Jenny Fenig: Well, it’s interesting because my mom, growing up, would often say to me, look up at the moon. Since the time I was in college, I have lived away from where she was living and then beyond. She often would plant that seed with me and sometimes I thought she was a little wacky for going all right. But that has stuck with me. What’s so fascinating, no matter where you are located on this planet, every single one of us is looking at the same moon. It’s not different in the Philippines, in the United States, in Canada, in Spain, and in Antarctica. It’s the same moon. It’s the exact same moon. I just think that’s so cool. We live on such a giant planet, we’re all looking up at that same ball of light.

When it really became clearer for me was when I just started reading various books about women, history, energy, and our creative process. Women are natural creators or creatrixes. A creatrix is the female term of a creator. We just naturally do it. We naturally create. Some of us are called for motherhood where we create a child inside, or we adopt a child. However that comes to be, or somehow a child comes into our life. I think I got deeper into it when I became a mother. My oldest child is 11 years old now, my youngest is 6. I also have a 9-year-old. When I became pregnant for that first time, which was so interesting because for a lot of years I didn’t want to become pregnant. That wasn’t something I was ready for. And then once I became ready for that and wanting that, I saw my body in a whole new way.

As women cycle, a lot of us have had a menstrual cycle. We know what that is. Menstrual cycles are the same as the lunar cycle. It’s around 29 and ½ days. Think about that. Those are the things I wish I would have been taught in school. When I was growing up, it was very much like when you’re on your period, that’s dirty. That’s dirty. It’s something you want to hide. Maybe you were made fun of, especially if the boys knew you’re on your period somehow in school because you took your purse to the bathroom. It was something that almost felt shameful. There wasn’t a real big rite of passage around it when I was growing up.

I will tell you, when my daughter moves into that phase of her life, I will do it differently with her. I will give her something that I didn’t have that I’ve had to learn for myself. When you really tune into the fact that we cycle, our body cycles the same as the moon, that’s something to take note of. With the moon—what I’ve come to learn through practice, study, and just applying this in my own personal life, in my business, and helping my clients do this—is that if you really want to understand how to work with the energy of the moon. When you are menstruating, there is energy. You might have read the book The Red Tent. I read that many, many years ago. It’s a fantastic book. It’s really that energy of being still, resting, renewing, and not go go go. You’re just receiving it. Your body is doing the work, your body’s cleansing, and that’s the energy of the new moon. That’s the energy of that new moon.

If you were to start tracking the lunar cycle—and most calendars have this represented on the calendar. If you have a wall calendar, if you have a printed calendar. I still use those. I mean, I have a business. We have a lot of digital things going on, but I have a printed calendar that I keep on my desk and often in my purse. I’m not going as many places these days as I once did pre-COVID, but I’ve got my printed calendar, and I’ve got my calendar in my kitchen that I keep up on the wall. The moon phases are represented there. Take note of those. Some people have no idea where the moon is right now in terms of the phase of the cycle, and I suggest that you start paying attention—if you haven’t already—and just tracking your own energy around what’s going on in the moon.

Sometimes, as women, our bodies might be in that same phase. If you’re still in your bleeding years, you might bleed at the same time as the new moon. If so, the energy is really synced up. If not, there’s still a lot that you can glean from the moon. And you really want to understand what’s happening out there so you can better take care of yourself. That’s the whole thing. Isn’t that what true health is all about is you know how to take care of yourself, and you know how to have others help take care of you if you have other people in your life—really helping to nourish you and support you?

So that new moon is all about rest, renewal, and ultra-vision. And then about a week later, we move into the first quarter moon. That’s when you look up in the sky, and just last night it was the first quarter moon. I looked up and it was just like magic. It was so captivating, and it looks like a half-moon where that right side is glowing. And you don’t see the light on the left side. It’s just that right side of the moon. That is the energy of growth, action, and commitment. What you can do at the new moon, as well as resting and renewing, is that you get the vision for what you want to focus on in this upcoming cycle.

With moons, there are 13 moons in a year. There are 12 months in a year, but there are 13 moons in a year. You have an opportunity 13 times in a year to really set your intention, and it doesn’t always happen at the first of the month. That’s not how it works. It happens when it happens based on that lunar cycle, and the lunar cycle is set. You could go look ahead a few years and you’ll go see the lunar cycle like when the new moon of 2025 will be. Scientists have this down. It’s really extraordinary what can be tracked and looked at as you move forward.

What I like to do at each new moon is set my intention. What is my intention? What do I want my energy and my focus to go to for this lunar cycle so that as I take my steps forward? As I put my energy out there, my actions out there, and my words out there, I can see the seeds that I’m planting blossom. 

I’m setting my intention. I’m establishing some goals to support that intention at the new moon, so when I get to that first-quarter moon I’m really quickening my steps. I’m like okay, let’s go. Have I sent out that email? Have I talked to that person? Have I gone to get that thing? Have I planted my seeds, and if not, what seeds do I really want to be planting now or in the next few days? Because then, about a week later, we’re going to get to that full moon. And that’s when you look up in the sky. Everybody knows what a full moon looks like.

There tends to be a pretty powerful energy at the full moon. There’s just such powerful sensations that are happening right there, and we’re all feeling it. We’re all feeling it. There’s a lot of data to support that hospitals and emergency rooms in particular have a lot more action around the full moon. There’s just this heightened intensity that’s going on. And when we can understand that, we don’t have to be blindsided by it and going like why do I feel all this? You understand. You understand it intuitively, and you can really make space for it. 

What I know at full moon is that’s when I’m in my fullest power. That’s when I’m going for it. As women, that’s when we would be ovulating. That’s when we could conceive a child. You think about that, and there are only a few days in a woman’s cycle that that could happen okay. When you then understand your own energy at that point, the energy of the full moon at that point, you can harness some things. 

In my business, I might have some big activity going on at the full moon where I am putting something out there. I have hosted lots of retreats all around the world and tied that into the full moon. Where I will look ahead and go, all right, I’m going to have this event in November. I’d like to bring the women together around the full moon. When’s that full moon going to be? Okay, it’s this point. Let me check with my retreat center and see if they have space available at that time. You see, that’s how you can really line it up. Some people might decide that they’re going to have some special thing there, they’re going to put this thing out there, they’re going to whatever. You just know. That is maybe you want to go camping, like there’s just something that you want to do around the full moon.

And I do a lot of this with my kids, especially my daughter. She’s super into it. We really talk about the moon together. If I take my dog for a walk around the property at night, I’m always looking for the moon. What’s interesting is you don’t know where she’s going to be. The moon is a feminine energy, p.s. So you don’t know where the moon is going to be. I can’t always look up over this particular tree and see her. It’s not how she works. She’s very mysterious, and I love that. I just love that energy. I love that idea that she’s always there, I just don’t know where she is all the time. I know what’s up. I know if she’s at this phase or that phase, but I can’t always find her in the sky. It’s just an interesting thing to play with, and it also helps you deepen into your faith. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there. Get it? And that we have to trust. We have to trust. And we have to trust planting these seeds. I’ll give you an example and I’ll tell you about the last phase of the moon.

A few months back, as we were really in the throes of COVID here in Massachusetts. I know that you have listeners all over. Everyone is being impacted in different places, and it’s just horrible. It’s this horrible thing. A few months back, we really weren’t leaving our house. Except I was able to go to the garden store and be outside, and I eventually got these seeds—these sunflower seeds. Now I have never planted seeds. I just recently have gotten into gardening. A few years back, I kind of just all right. Let me try this, let me try that. But I’d always buy plants that were already formed. They were in the pots, and I could transfer them into my land into the earth.

Well, I decided to just see what happens when I would plant seeds, and sunflower seeds in particular, which is really interesting because that was my favorite flower in high school. I campaigned for it to become our senior class flower, and it did, which is very exciting because we had had the rose for 20 years straight. My whole thing was okay, rose is a great flower, but can we just have a different flower? Let’s be creative. So we got the sunflower. 

I decided to get these seeds, and I put them on the earth. I remember thinking to myself is this going to work? These things are really small. Is this really going to work? I’m going to follow the directions. I’m going to space them the number of inches they’re supposed to be spaced apart. I’ll water them. Okay. But I had that doubt in my head like really, could something as big as sunflowers grow out of these little things?

Oh my gosh, Ashley, if you could look outside my window right now, these things are so huge. These stalks are taller than me, and I’ve been checking on them. There’s one in particular that I can see the yellow starting to peek through. I’m like oh my goodness, I think this week the flowers are going to come out. Because at this point, it’s been the giant stalks. Then I still know, within the stalks, the flowers in there. It’s just not ready. It’s not ripe yet. It’s not time yet, but can I still believe? Can I still believe? For everyone, can you still believe? Even if you can’t see it, you have to believe it to see it. Some people have it backward like I’ll see it when I believe it, or I believe it when I see it. Okay, I’ll believe it when I see it. No, you will see it when you believe it.

That’s really how I feel what the moon allows us to do. She’s so consistent. As I’ve used her energy and really worked with her energy and co-created it, I’ve been able to come into deeper communion with my own body, with my own wellness, with my own groundedness and connection to the earth, and to my place on this earth. Then I’ve helped my people really tap into this wisdom as well. 

So the last phase of the cycle is called the last quarter moon, and that is when you look up and you see the light on the left side. So you don’t see the light on the right side, and that’s how you can always know. When you look up, if it’s on the right side, the moon is waxing. It’s getting bigger in the sky. And if the light is on the left side, it’s called waning. The energy is waning and it’s getting smaller. Eventually going back to that new moon and then starting the cycle again.

So with the last quarter moon, that is the energy of letting go. Letting go to rise higher. That is when you have seen what has started growing. What has become real? You’ve put in the effort, you’ve put in actions, you set that intention back at the new moon, you set those goals, and you work towards them. And some of them were meant to happen the way that you hoped they would or the way that you semi-envisioned that they would. Others you realize you know what, that wasn’t aligned, maybe not yet, maybe I need to simply be more patient, or maybe I need to let that go because this other thing is freaking growing and it looks really exciting. I want to align my energy with that. I know that I can’t do all the things all the time, so I’m going to double down on that, and I’m going to let go of these other things that can’t come with me into the next cycle.

That is the lunar cycle in a nutshell. I’m actually looking up at this gorgeous lunar calendar. In addition to the ones that I mentioned that come printed in a lot of these calendars you might buy, I had my designer on my team—we collaborated on this really cool one sheet and it just says Lunar Calendar 2020. What was so interesting is that I had her put all the names of the months at the top of the paper, so going across horizontally, and then the numbers go down vertically. 

January there’s 1 to 31, February 1 to 29, and they’re just these long rows of numbers going down the page. And then she would go in and plot out each phase of the cycle and go across the page. What is the full moon in January, February, December? And it looks like—if you ever had or ever saw those really cool beads that you could hang in a doorway, they’re kind of like circa the 1970s, but they’re cool. You could hang these beads in a doorway and then open the beads and move into another room. They kind of look like those beads. They’re so pretty when you look at it. To me, it’s just exquisite art the way that nature was designed. And the more that we understand that, the more that we understand ourselves.

Photo by Aditya Chinchure on Unsplash


[00:34:57] Ashley James: Beautiful. It’s amazing how there’s so much in nature that really affects us, and we often just don’t think about it. I mean the moon is powerful. If you think about it, the moon is strong enough to change the tides and pull the water, the ocean in one direction and then in another and create the tide. We’re made of water. Why wouldn’t the moon have some kind of pull if it can pull the water in the ocean? Why wouldn’t it have some kind of effect on us? I mean, it’s not a huge effect, but it can be felt, and we can see it. You can see it when we go to the ocean, and we see the tide come in and out. What other instances in nature do you keep your awareness of and tap into?


[00:35:51] Jenny Fenig: Well, I look at where I am each season. Really honoring seasonal shifts and planning around that. I didn’t realize how important honestly nature was to me until I did. I grew up in the south, as I mentioned. When I lived in Florida, I lived near the beach, and that was really nice having that ocean near me—speaking of tides and oceans. And then once I lived in New York, you’re in a concrete jungle. We had Central Park. We had some trees there, but typically you had a tree carved out in a little plot on the sidewalk and cement. I did have the Hudson River, thank goodness. I lived on West End Avenue, which was overlooking the Hudson River. Oh, that brought me such a sense of calm.

But once I moved to the country 10 years ago. I left New York City. I now live in the country, Western Massachusetts. I felt like I could exhale. It was something I really needed but didn’t know that I needed it. New York was so wonderful for my career. I met my husband there. I had my first child there. I got pregnant with my second child when we lived there, but it didn’t provide me with enough nature. Now I have it. I look around these windows and the office that I’m speaking to you from and all I see are trees. That’s it. I see the trees. I live in a forest. I consider the trees my friends, which may sound funny but it’s true, and I take such cues from these trees. We have nature here, and we have four seasons here. Not every place has four seasons, but we have that here.

I’ve learned to really be seasonal in my approach. My energy in the summer is different than my energy in the fall is different than my energy in winter is different than my energy in spring. And I encourage you all to really tap into that for yourselves as well. How are you in summer versus winter? And what changes do you need to make or modifications do you need to make so that your body stays in a natural state? I enjoy being warm. Cold is hard for me so winter here is hard. It’s really, really challenging. And I learned to layer. I learned that clothing really matters. Wool matters. I wear lots of layers of wool pretty much since it gets cold until it’s not cold anymore, I have a layer of wool on my skin. And that makes a massive, massive difference. What I’m eating during wintertime, in particular, are warm foods because my body is cold. And my body gets anxious when I’m cold.

There’s something that I studied, which is pretty cool. It’s an ancient science and an ancient practice really. I went to India a few years ago, and I went through my yoga teacher training back in 2007. When I did that and I was reading all these books around yoga philosophy and really understanding the mind. The purpose of yoga is to achieve mastery over the mind. It’s not to contort yourself into these shapes, although the shapes help you achieve the mastery of the mind. So when I went through all that, I just had this pact I made with myself that I would go to India. I didn’t know when I would go to India or how that trip would come into being. It was like a seed. I planted the seed, and about 10 years later, the wish came true. The opportunity presented itself, and I walked through the door and I said I’m going to go on that trip.

I had the opportunity to study something called Ayurveda. There are ayurvedic doctors. This is a form of medicine, and it’s a very natural form of medicine with the usage of herbs, being intelligent about what you eat, and understanding your body constitution. In Ayurveda, there are three body types: vata, pitta, and kapha. You can just dig into this if anyone’s interested. You can look around and see what you find here. There are these assessments you can take. You can answer questions and get a better read on what your constitution is. We all are a mix of all three, but you’ll have one that’s dominant and one that’s a clear secondary. 

For me, I’m vata pitta. Vata is very airy. We are predisposed to being cold. My husband’s pitta so he’s predisposed to being hot. So you can imagine that we battle over the thermostat. He wants it to be on the colder side and I’m making it warmer. If you know that your body is predisposed to certain things, then you need to be prepared. 

If my body gets too cold and I’m not prepared through the foods that I’m eating, through being mindful of me waking up first thing, I shouldn’t drink an ice-cold glass of water ever first thing. It’s going to throw me out of alignment. I’m going to just head into a place I don’t need to be, which is anxiety which is just too cold. I start just getting too amped up, and I’m not grounded. I’m kind of floating, and not in a way that’s super peaceful blissful. I’m just too out there. And I need to come back to this place of groundedness. So for me, understanding this, me going to India, studying with an ayurvedic teacher, working with ayurvedic doctors there, and staying at this really amazing Ayurveda retreat center in a town called Gokarna, which is just out of this world. I’ll never forget it. It was one of those incredible experiences. I understand now what I need to do.

So when I wake up, my go-to ritual is I fill my kettle with water, turn on the stove, and then I pour myself two cups. One, warm water. It’s hot water when it goes into the cup. I wait so it cools off a little bit and I put lemon in there. And then I have my second cup and I fill that with my favorite jasmine green tea. And then of course with my lemon. One of my clients makes this really cool chai concoction. She’s just this herbalist and she gives me these batches of what she makes. So I stir a little bit of that in there and it just is this magical blend, and it gets me going on the right foot. My body starts really waking up. I’m moving. Things are really good, and I feel connected. I feel grounded because I haven’t gone to that ice-cold thing.

You all can study that. You can really look at how your body is designed. Our body wants to feel good. We want to feel healthy, but things are set up right now that you forget all that. And if you’re on your computer all day, your cortisol levels get jacked up. You’re looking at this screen, your eyes are getting fatigued, and you’re out of touch with nature because you’re just looking at these machines. 

I’m grateful for all my technology, but I’m not living my life in technology because that’s not where I want to live my life. I want to live my life out there, and then I come to tech to connect with people. Like connecting with you today, Ashley, knowing this podcast is going to go out and serve people. I will connect on social media with my people, but I’m doing that from a place of wellness. I’m doing that from a place of understanding how I need to take care of myself every day with the moves I need to make with what I’m drinking, what I’m eating, and then how I move through nature.

You all can really look around and check on your own energy levels that each season you might decide that in the wintertime, in particular, you want to bring more fire into your life to warm you up. Maybe in the fall, you’re looking around—where I live, the leaves change colors. You might tap in at that point, what kind of transformation are you undergoing at that point? What are you shedding? What leaves are dropping for you? 

And can you come into that place of faith knowing that winter is coming, but you’re strong enough to handle winter? Not just handle it, but really enjoy it. What do you need to do to prepare for each season? And then can you take a page from the playbook of trees, if you will, and say yeah, I know. And then my leaves are going to grow again. And then they’ll be green again. And then eventually they’ll fall again. The leaves will drop or they’ll change colors. I just think it’s so interesting. The whole thing is so interesting.

This pandemic has given me an opportunity, as I mentioned, I never thought I’d be a gardener ever. You have no idea. Before this interview, Ashley, I went to my local hardware store and made the first-ever purchase. Do you want to know what I bought?


[00:45:08] Ashley James: What’d you buy?


[00:45:09] Jenny Fenig: A chainsaw.


[00:45:13] Ashley James: Electric or gas?


[00:45:17] Jenny Fenig: I went with the gas. I have an electric lawnmower, weed whacker, leaf blower, but they explained to me that I really need the gas to do the work that needs to be done. I think it looks like we’re going to be cutting our own firewood. I never thought ever. But as I was building out this one particular place of my land with this garden, the tools that I had weren’t adequate enough to get through this particular—it’s like this vine thing. We have these vines on the property that kind of wrap around trees and hurt the trees. There’s this one spot, this has to go and my tools aren’t enough. They’re not adequate. Sure, I could go hire someone to do it, but it’s really cool.

You come into your power, I do anyway. When I say I can do that. I can do that. I felt a sense of pride. There are all guys helping me in that section of the store, but I’m like yep, first-ever chainsaw purchase. They were so excited for me, and I’m so excited for myself to come in and say we can do that. We can do that. When the temperature, when the weather is nice to be able to do this, I feel like such a responsibility to the land, and something I want to teach my kids how to take care of that. How to take care of things. How to really work with this land. 

Even before the pandemic, we were homeschooling, and we’ll continue on that path. This is something I want us all to learn together, how do we do this? Once you know how to do a lot of these things, I know for me, I feel proud. I feel like, hey, I could get some help with this, and there’s nothing wrong with getting help. But gosh, what a wonderful feeling to know the things that you can do.


[00:47:05] Ashley James: Brilliant. Now one of your claims to fame is your ability to homeschool, manage your business, manage your household, and just be so busy juggling everything. Many people are overwhelmed right now. It’s a new experience for them homeschooling in the light of the COVID lockdown. Many parents have chosen not to send their kids back to school because of the restrictions and requirements. But instead of choosing to homeschool, many people work from home now like Google, Microsoft, and Facebook. They’re keeping a lot of their staff at home. So it’s a new dynamic for many Americans, Canadians, and people around the world. 

A new dynamic where many families are working from home and homeschooling at the same time. And they’re not used to juggling all these things, or they’re planning on it because it’s still the summertime. They’re planning on it. And even for those who are going back to school, many districts are only doing two days a week. So for public school, they’re still going to be home for three school days. And if parents are home with them, potentially working from home, then it’s just a whole new dynamic. Can you walk us through and teach us how we can be more effective at getting all this done? I think you talk about how you can get more done by doing less. What are some ways that you can really prepare the listeners who are stepping into a whole new routine, a whole new reality?


[00:49:04] Jenny Fenig: Yeah. I really like talking about this. Thank you. Well what we talked about obviously understanding the moon in particular and just what’s happening out in nature, that’s tremendously helpful. That just becomes your way of living. The more that you practice that, the more you’ll understand. You’ll understand, and it makes your life so much simpler. It really, really does. All right. So there’s that.

The other things that I practice are what I call time chunking and task batching. So you become so intelligent and efficient with your moves and your time. I’ve always been pretty strong with time. It was interesting. Even in those first New York City jobs I had, I was like 22. My managers must have seen my ability to do this because myself and this other colleague of mine, she was also about 22, 23, I’d say. We were tapped to lead a time management training for the entire organization. I looked back at that, we were young, but we had something going on. 

I think some of that is probably connected to the deaths that I experienced at such a young age because I knew right away—time is not guaranteed. It’s not. It’s not. Every day is an absolute gift, so don’t squander it. Don’t squander it. This is going to require you to be super disciplined to have very strong boundaries to know how to say no, not now, or let’s look to do that in a different way. You really want to understand, if someone’s asking you to do something, what that looks like. Because I think too many people just give their time away, and it’s often because they’re afraid of being perceived as mean or rude if they say no, ask for things to be a bit different, can we do it next week, or whatever. I think some people really like that word busy. I actually don’t consider myself busy. I don’t use that word. I don’t believe that is something that we have to subscribe to. I think being busy makes a lot of people sick, really.


[00:51:18] Ashley James: Well, absolutely. If we’re just talking about the stress response, the idea of busy is creating the autonomic nervous system fight or flight. Being in the sympathetic nervous system response of fight or flight, which turns off the healing mode in the body. If the story you tell yourself is I’m busy, I’m busy, I’m busy, then you’re triggering fight or flight. And that is a very unhealthy state to be in chronically.


[00:51:47] Jenny Fenig: Chronically, absolutely. I think it’s so interesting, especially for people who are trying to figure out if they’re in a reinvention right now. Which I know many people are that COVID has given people the opportunity to go is this what I really want? When my regular life is stripped away, all the things that I typically did, is my work—is this good? Is this what I want? Is this framework for this working? What’s interesting is you can look back at your life and go wait, I’ve always been fascinated by this particular thing. What was that through line? What’s the through-line?

So for me, I was always stressed growing up. I remember feeling this immense pressure. In college, I took a stress management class. A whole semester, I took a stress management class because I wanted to understand. I mean, no one had taught me that in high school. There was no class that was like okay kids, let’s help you all be less stressed. It was like be stressed. Join the club, everyone’s stressed. No. So I took a class in college. I wanted to understand what stress really is and how to work with it. It’s the number one cause of death. I mean, it really is. It leads to so many issues. We don’t have to subscribe to it. It’s not just something that is a given because we’re human. We can reclaim being versus doing, and then when we do things, that those can be intelligent actions.

What you can look at is how you can organize your day, your week, again, working with the lunar cycle if you’re going to play with that, so that you’re getting the maximum results from your efforts. And that you don’t do it maybe in the way that you used to do it. So I had to really retrain myself when I left my last corporate job. Once I set out on my own and became an entrepreneur without even knowing that that was what I was going to do when I quit that last job, I applied for other jobs and nothing was exciting. I was like I don’t want to do any of these things. Oh no. 

And then I just discovered coaching and just kept okay, I’m going to stay on this path. And then before I knew it, I had a business, and here we are all these years later. I had to train myself to do it differently. It was not required. There was no rule that said I had to sit at a desk Monday through Friday from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM or beyond. There was no rule that said that, but at first, I thought I would be in trouble. I mean it sounds silly to say it, but I really was like who’s going to come? Who’s going to knock on my door to see that I’m not here. That I’m at a yoga class at 11:00 AM on a Wednesday. 

You know what was so interesting, there were other people at the yoga class at 11:00 AM on a Wednesday. And I’m going, oh my gosh. It’s not just me. Well, okay. What do they do for work? And I just saw that I wanted to have a different kind of existence where I could know my natural creation times or my mind was really sharp when my body had a lot of energy. And I could provide a tremendous amount of value in terms of writing, speaking, working with clients, and strategizing. It didn’t need to be all day because my body really isn’t designed for that. My mind isn’t designed for that, and I have a family. I have three kids. I can’t do all the things I need to do with that old framework, with that old dynamic.

Listen, I know a lot of people are still in that space where that’s the rule, that’s the protocol. You are responsible for being on the computer or being at this physical location from this time to this time. I would simply challenge you or encourage you to be willing to shake things up a bit and look at how you can look at productivity and see. Okay, if I were to batch all my meetings on one particular day, batch my writing on my mornings on these days, or my client work on these days. 

Now, this might be really provocative to some people and make you nervous to even consider doing this or having a conversation with someone who might be more senior to you that you need to get this through, but there’s plenty of organizations that have done this with extraordinary results. There are places especially abroad, I’ve seen studies where they just decided that people would work Monday through Thursday, not Monday through Friday. And productivity went up through the roof. Efficiency went through the roof because you weren’t just wasting your time going, well, I can’t leave before this time. So I might as well just shoot the breeze, you know what I’m saying?

This is about reclaiming our time and reclaiming that energy. This is how I homeschool. I’m very fortunate my husband and I both work from home. We have relatively flexible schedules. I get to decide when my client calls are, when these group calls are, when I’m going to do a podcast interview, and then when I’m focused on the children, and when I might be working with my daughter on something. My boys are at an age where we’ve been working with tutors in the last few years. Pre-COVID we’d have tutors coming into the home. Right now, we’re going to have a pause on that and we’re going to do online classes and tutors. 

We’ll just schedule things in a way that everyone gets what they need, but even within their schooling, it’s not 9:00 AM to blah blah they’re in classes back to back to back. I don’t believe in that. We need space. We need space to creatively come up with ideas to go outside and work in the garden. To go on a hike, bring your art supplies, and create something that you see. To be bored. The best ideas come through boredom. We try so hard to avoid boredom like it’s this horrible thing. That we’re a bad parent if our kids are bored. That’s really going to come up with a great idea. We don’t need to over-schedule them to the point where they don’t even know how to think.

As you all are considering how you’re going to move forward, keep that all into account. Again, it goes against the systems that we thought were unbreakable, but they’ve all broken.


[00:58:18] Ashley James: No kidding.


[00:58:20] Jenny Fenig: They’ve all broken. And I say that with love but with all certainty because I know for many people, you’re still in this state of it’s hard and you might be grieving. I’ve been homeschooling for a few years now so I’m not freaked out. I’m sad that we are where we are. It’s horrible, it makes me mad, and all the things. I think we should feel our feelings. I feel for educators, I feel for schools, and I feel for administrators. I mean this is not fun, and there’s no playbook really. 

The last time we had a global pandemic was more than 100 years ago, and the world looked very different at that point. So here we are, luckily we have more technology that can support us. But I would suggest—especially for those of you who are looking into homeschooling, how distance learning is going to look, or what you want to do—to be really mindful of what system you want to be a part of. Because whatever system you’re choosing, you’re choosing for your child as well. They are experiencing the energy of that system.

I’m very grateful for homeschooling because we get to design our own system, really. We have the blessing of our local school district. We submit end of year reports. We submit a plan at the beginning of the school year to say here’s where we’re going, and we have very supportive public school principals and superintendents who have our back every year because they know that we have our heart in the right place with what we’re doing, with what’s best for our kids, and the way that we see it. And they’re learning the things that they need to learn.

I actually just did a workshop on this a few days ago called charting your path as a homeschooler. I just want to make sure everyone knows too, distance learning is not homeschooling. It’s not. It’s not, okay. You are still in that system. If you like distance learning and it’s working well, then do it. But that’s not homeschooling. Homeschooling is when you unenroll your child from that school and you really set out on a different path. You have a lot more flexibility, a lot more freedom. Your kids aren’t going to be absent if you decide to go on a trip. And they’re not going to be logging in at a certain time. It’s a whole different deal. I’m very grateful for it. It’s not for everybody, but it’s for more people than people might think. I could talk about it all day. 

I feel like where we are now as a society is one where, again, you have an opportunity to choose the system that you’re going to be operating in. And make sure that you can be healthy within the system. For me, Ashley, in that corporate existence—and this again was in the late ‘90s almost all the way through the 2000s. I quit that last corporate job in November 2007. I realized that system was making me sick, and I remember being so afraid to leave because well, I get health care. My husband and I got health insurance through my job because, at that point, he was freelance in his work. 

We got health insurance through my job, but I remember that small still voice within was saying, but Jenny, you’re getting sick so you can keep your health insurance. And it was just this whole thing of this is backward. This is so twisted. So I had to get that courage up to quit my job. I went on COBRA for 18 months as long as we could, then we found private insurance. We were so blessed and grateful. My husband ended up getting a full-time position, and so we do have health insurance through his company now. The way his company is designed, he’s not getting sick by working there. I’m not getting sick doing the work I’m doing. My work keeps me healthy because my work keeps me honest.


[01:02:17] Ashley James: Beautiful. Do you have any other lessons, homework, or techniques that you’d like to teach those who are stepping into this new world?


[01:02:34] Jenny Fenig: Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. I’ve loved having this conversation. It’s been really special. As much as you can, remember that you’re breathing. This is another thing that we take for granted and we forget. Breathing, it’s the first thing we do when we’re born. We take that breath, and ah, rejoice. And then the last thing we’re going to do as we exit the body is we will take that final breath. So it’s a profound process—breathing. 

For many people, and I know for me too before I discovered conscious breathing. In the yogic realm, it’s called pranayama. Prana is that life force energy. All right, so prana. We have this life force energy moving through our body, moving through our veins, our blood. It just keeps everything just beautifully connected. Oh my goodness. We often move through life—if you’re unconscious of it—and you’re in that whole busy trap, you’re just eating fast food on the go, you’re constantly out of touch with nature and really with your truth, and you’ve said yes to lots of things that you’re like, ugh, I don’t even want to do this but I have to do it. You’re in the shoulds and the obligatory stuff. That we’ve come out of connection with our own breath, and then you’re often breathing shallow. So it’s just from that upper lung capacity. You’re just breathing to the heart and up, but the lungs and the body can hold so much more.

If you were to take some time and really sit with yourself, and we could do it right now. We could just breathe very deeply together, and you can count your breaths. You can count just the beats of the breath. We could play right now and simply come into this breathing exercise where we are mindfully inhaling, and just breathing as full as you can on the inhale. And then going as high up as you can in the body. Then as you exhale, slow methodical trusting that exhale. And then as you inhale the next time, feel that you’re pulling the inhale up from the core of the earth just bringing it all the way up the body, all the way up to the body, and can you come to the top of your head, the crown of your head. And as you exhale down from the crown of your head, putting that breath back into the earth.

You’re recycling the breath over and over again, remembering that the earth gives us so much. I mean so much. It gives us food, it gives us sustenance, it gives us air to breathe, oxygen. So bring yourself into that place of just conscious breathing, especially if you find yourself getting stressed or anxious. Can you come to that place of breathwork, and it’s breathwork like there’s actual work involved in the breath, instead of that just unconscious, I don’t even know. I’m shallow breathing. You’ll find yourself feeling a lot of pressure and a lot of tension, which let’s be real, even the most experienced those of us are with breathing, with exercise, or mindfulness techniques—coronavirus COVID will test us all. This is the work. This is really the thing that we’re meant to see how deep our practices are, and where we still have work to do, blind spots, or where we might be falling in certain holes.

Practice isn’t something that we’re here to become perfect at. It’s something that we just show up for every day. So whether it’s you when you go for your run, you get on your yoga mat, you just sit outside and look at nature, or you do this deep breathwork. They’re all the other things that you do. You play tennis, you’re into baseball, or you’re into all the wonderful things that we can do with our bodies. It’s knowing that we can come into this place of that quiet, and you can access that small still voice within, and just breathe. That’s it. 

If it’s newer to you, there are apps you can get into. There’s that Insight Timer app. I use that for years. I have that on my phone. I’m a Peloton owner and user. I have the Peloton app on my phone. And often, if I’m preparing for—let’s say I’m going to lead a training for clients, I’m going to give a presentation, I will turn on meditation, even though I know how to meditate. I lead meditations, but it’s really nice for someone to tell me what to do. I like to be told what to do sometimes and to be guided through an experience. 

So I’ll just open up the app, whatever app you want. There are so many that are available to you these days, and you can just pick one. If you have three minutes, it’ll be 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or 30 minutes and beyond, and you can tune in and receive. Just tune in and receive. Allow yourself to be in that moment. Don’t worry about what just happened or what you’ve got next. Just come into that place of, I’m taking five minutes. I am not going to feel guilty for taking these five minutes, and I’m going to breathe. That’s it. 

And if it’s a guided meditation, you’ll listen to the words that are being spoken. You’ll listen to maybe the music or the sounds of nature that might be on that meditation track, and you’ll go where you go. You’ll go where you go. And you might find that you’ll get the answer to something that you’ve been struggling with. Some kind of feeling will come over your body. You’ll get what I call an intuitive hit, and you’ll realize, oh my goodness. That’s it. I’m going to go call that person later, I’m going to go sign up for that thing, or I’m going to go make that decision.

It comes to you in those moments of stillness, and then your job is to then respond. To do something with it. That’s something that I know that you all will get so much from just that conscious breath and that coming back to that thing that is so special. Talk to anybody who is having trouble breathing, or has some kind of illness where their breathing is affected. They will tell you how they wish it could be different. So when we have this gift, use it. Really use it. And take note of how it allows you to show up differently for the important people in your life. I think this is an opportunity for all of us to really honor the relationships that we have.

We are living in a very hard time. There are lots of challenges now, and I know that many people are experiencing hard things at home, in their work, or with people in their lives. Maybe you can’t see the important people in your life right now, which is heartbreaking. Totally, totally heartbreaking. But can you come into this place of stillness so that as you show up for the relationships, you can show up from a place of groundedness, kindness, and compassion? Even though you might see some craziness happening on social media. Anytime you go there it’s loaded. You’re like, okay. Am I ready for this?

So we’ve got to come back. We have to do our own work. And then if you have kids, can you teach them how to do this stuff? Can you model it? But the way you teach is to do it. It’s to be it. Can you show it to your partner? Can you embody this with the important people in your life? It’s such a simple tool, but so few people actually use it. And if you were to use it, it would change your life.

Photo by Carl Barcelo on Unsplash


[01:11:06] Ashley James: Beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your insights. Another website of yours is, and you have a Magic Maker’s Coach Certification. What’s that all about?


[01:11:27] Jenny Fenig: Yeah. I’m really passionate about serving women, coaches, therapists, wellness professionals, fitness professionals, and those who might have come from that corporate background like I am. Women who know that they’re here to guide their people to their greatest potential. They do that through transformative coaching and really working with a lot of the concepts that we talked about today. It’s listening skills, it’s understanding energy, it’s understanding how to work with the lunar cycle, understanding how to help your clients move through energetic blocks, and just old patterns that aren’t healthy or sustainable. Really look for old stories that they’ve outgrown and aren’t serving them and aren’t serving this beautiful life that they’ve been blessed with.

Once I became a coach all those years ago and then set out on my path to create this business and help people, I then realized there was a huge gap in the market for a coach certification that blended up how to honor the craft of coaching in this particular style of coaching. Which is very much about working with your intuition, your body, and energy, and then how to have a great business doing this? How to have an online business doing this? And that’s what our coach certification is dedicated to. 

I feel so grateful that especially in these days, often women were in careers that were really important and valuable, but often they might get to a point where they have to choose. If they decided to become mothers or have families, that it became a real sense of tension and stress because that old system meant okay well you’re in this office, then your kids are over here, and then you’re dealing with who’s with them after school. If you really want to go far in your career, it can come at odds with the desire you might have to spend time with your family. Or you might be in a career that is so valuable, but for some silly reason, it’s not valuable from a financial compensation perspective. So that has also held women back.

We’re in a new era now. Online has very much put us on different terrain. Women have an opportunity to earn really well, and to do incredible things with these gifts and talents that they might have used again in that corporate space. What was so interesting, Ashley, I didn’t even know what coaching was really. I had sports coaches growing up, but once I discovered it after my yoga teacher training, it was like a huge light bulb went on. I said I’ve been doing this my whole life. I didn’t know this was a job. This is the part that I liked most about all my jobs. The other things I had to do I didn’t enjoy, but I just thought that’s how it was.

So once I discovered that coaching was this wonderful way to use these gifts and talents that I have, and so many women are naturally blessed with this. And then once they really are given the tools, the guidance, the training, and the community to really honor the craft and come forward with confidence as they work with their clients, and then understand how to create an incredible business. Mostly have it online, if that’s their desire. That’s the way I do it in my business. They don’t have to choose between motherhood and a lucrative career. It can be something that they can really integrate, and it can evolve with them. It can evolve with their family. It can evolve with the seasons as we talked about.

That’s why we’ve created Magic Makers Coach Certification. I’m really proud of the work that we do. And if this calls out to anyone tuning in, I’d love for you to check it out and submit an application if you feel called.


[01:15:29] Ashley James: Wonderful. In closing, I’d like you to give us some homework. I know you told us before to breathe, pay attention to the lunar cycles. What kind of homework can you give us? Perhaps homework that would help people to better tap into their life purpose, tap into why they’re here and feel purposeful. Some people are feeling a little untethered right now. So what kind of homework can help to empower us?


[01:16:02] Jenny Fenig: Yeah, oh my goodness. That’s such a great question. Really to come into that place of purpose. If possible, and it should be because we’re in summer. It’s warm, in most places. If you’re in the southern hemisphere, I know you’re in a different season, but play with me on this. Go walk outside barefoot.


[01:16:26] Ashley James: Yes.


[01:16:30] Jenny Fenig: So simple, but goodness, it gets you back into that place of, oh, this is how my feet feel on grass, on the sand, or even on concrete. Just the warmth from the sun that’s being pulled up. Or maybe if you can, go jump in some water. Get in a pool. Go to a lake. Go to an ocean. As much as you can connect and with nature—the natural elements: fire, water, air, and earth—the more you are going to feel good in your body. And it feels good to feel good. You are allowed to feel good. That right there could be this monumental breakthrough for some of you. Oh, I’m allowed to feel good more often than not, right? What would happen if you felt good more than you do right now? What would happen?

I also encourage you to get honest with yourself about what you’re putting in your body—when it comes to your thoughts, when it comes to what you’re looking at. Your digital diet. Do you need to unfollow some people on social media? Do you need to scroll less? Do you need to be more intentional about the information that you’re taking in? Again, not to go into a bubble. I believe in being informed. And I think now, more than ever, we need to keep our eyes open about what’s happening in the world, but be really mindful of what you’re subjecting yourself to. Just know maybe reading things is better than watching videos for you because you’re way too impacted by some of the scenes. I have subscriptions to certain publications that keep me informed.

Also, look at what your body is telling you about what is good for you and what’s not. Is there something that you are consuming right now that really is toxic for you? A few years ago, I received a strong message from that small still voice within, that it was time for me to let go of alcohol and not drink anymore. If you would have known me as a teenager, Ashley, or during my collegiate career, you would have not believed that I would one day not drink because that was just so part of my identity. That’s what I thought you did to have a good time. 

My body made it very clear as I had been those years of practicing yoga, having my children, and I wanted a natural birth with them. I did that with two out of the three. My middle child was breech, and so I had a c-section with him. So I’ve had all these different experiences with my body. I’ve come to appreciate her in ways that I never did before. I look back and I know I was horrible to her for many years with how I treated her, what I said to her, and what I put inside of her. I don’t do that anymore. I’m not perfect, but each day, I commit to being more in tune with what she needs in terms of fuel sources. So we need this fuel to go all the places we’re meant to go in this life, help the people we’re meant to help, and be there for our family. Be here as long as we can in vitality with our people.

In my case, I realized that alcohol just didn’t have a role for me anymore. It couldn’t be a character in my movie any longer. I was ready to move into a new chapter, so I let it go. For other people, they can have it. But there are others who can’t eat gluten, they can’t have sugar, or they can’t have whatever. The certain people in your life, they’re just holding you back. This requires a lot of discipline, a tremendous amount of honesty, and some grief of oh my goodness, this thing that I’ve known for so long—or this person I’ve known for so long—we just can’t do this thing anymore. 

I encourage you to have those honest conversations with yourself and just get curious about what might be on the other side. Just be curious. Sometimes you can make a decision, and it might be well let me just try this for a month or a lunar cycle. We play with that, or a season, and just see. Run experiments. Run more experiments. Be curious. When you find, you know what, my life is better. My body feels better without this or with this, then run with that until it doesn’t make sense anymore. And then you’ll redesign something from there.

Photo by Thought Catalog on Unsplash


[01:21:24] Ashley James: Alcohol, it’s an interesting thing. We go to alcohol, sugar. There are over-the-counter things like sugar and dairy. The very stereotypical woman sitting with a pint of ice cream crying or something like that. When COVID first came about—and I saw this in our grocery stores—were completely sold out of baking goods, materials for baking. All the baker’s yeast was gone. All the flour and the sugar. People just sat at home, baked, and ate their feelings. I get it. I only stock healthy food in the house, but I definitely caught myself eating my feelings in the first few months of this crazy year. Alcohol is something that I cut out of my life really young.

I was a bartender when I was 19 because, in Canada, the drinking age could be 18 or 19, depending on what province. As a bartender, I was great as a bartender. I’m such an extrovert. I love people, and I love talking to people. It was fun. I didn’t think I’m serving people poison. At 19, I’m having fun. After a season of babysitting drunk people, it just turned me off so much. I just stopped drinking. I just didn’t like it. I don’t like feeling out of control. It didn’t give me any pleasure, but I watched my parents growing up. My mom would come home and take the vodka out of the freezer and have a shot just to calm her nerves. And then a few hours later, my dad would come home and they’d split a bottle of wine. They’d sit together at the dinner table, and they’d drink their wine.

Sometimes, on special occasions, they’d put a little wine in a glass and fill it with water. They thought it was fun, they’re sharing it with me. It became their way of de-stressing, just grounding or unwinding from the day. In looking at physiology, we know that the moment you drink even one serving of alcohol, your body goes into a state of stress for 24 hours. You can actually measure your heart rate variability, which is the most accurate indicator of stress. And that your heart rate variability becomes very poor for 24 hours after drinking even just one serving of alcohol. 

If it’s doing that to us, then it is affecting the depth of sleep, the depth of being able to regenerate your body through sleep. And then the next day, psychologically, it changes the brain chemistry so we’re more narcissistic. We’re less able to be empathetic. We actually have a harder time with emotional quotient or emotional intelligence being able to delay gratification. So we become people who need more instant gratification. This is all from one glass of wine.


[01:24:42] Jenny Fenig: One glass, yeah.


[01:24:43] Ashley James: Because now we are less likely to delay gratification, we would tend to then have another one. And we would tend to have another the next night, and the next night. It becomes a habit, and then we live a story. The story is I need this to unwind, or I deserve this to just have a break. This is going to make me feel good. Well, I can say that about sugar. I can say that about ice cream, right? We can say that about a lot of things that are over the counter, right? This is going to make me feel good. 

Now you can say that about street drugs too, but most people who are listening are not currently choosing street drugs to relax at the end of a stressful day. But most people who are even very health-conscious do find that they have their—I don’t want to call them vices, but they have—self-medication. We have to look at it, not from a point of guilt and shame because that then just perpetuates the vicious cycle, but to break out of the vicious cycle and go, what? So what are my deeper needs? If I’m trying to fulfill a need with alcohol, with sugar, with flour, or with dairy, if there’s something that is ultimately not healthy for me, but I’m using it to kind of band-aid a need, what’s that deeper need and how can I serve it in a healthier way? How can I get to the root cause? 

I used to work with a woman who was into personal growth and development and yet she couldn’t quit smoking until she finally realized why she couldn’t quit smoking. When she ever did quit smoking for periods of time, she would never take a break. She would work at her desk. She owned her own business, and she’d work out her desk from morning until night, never once getting up to stretch. Just never eating. Just really never taking care of herself. And then she would go downhill very quickly. But smoking, she caught herself and realized that it made her get off her desk, go to the balcony, take between 5 and 15 minutes and just relax, and breathe. Even though it’s breathing in a cigarette it’s still breathing


[01:27:05] Jenny Fenig: Breathing in nicotine, yeah.


[01:27:07] Ashley James: And then she would maybe grab a drink and grab a bite. And then she’d go back to the desk, and she was just as effective at her work because there comes a point when you push yourself so hard that you don’t have efficiency, as you talked about. But she used cigarettes as a way of mandating breaks. In order to successfully quit—and she did eventually—she implemented mandatory breaks without cigarettes. So she’d go outside and just breathe air without the cigarettes. She’d go for a walk, or she’d just do something else to stand up, stretch, walk around, get a glass of water, and take mandatory breaks. And then the deeper need that was being met by the cigarettes as a Band-Aid was no longer there.

I just think that if we can choose to, like you said, do a lunar cycle with no alcohol in the house, with no alcohol in your life. And instead, ask yourself what’s this deeper need? If what you really need is something to relax and de-stress, knowing that alcohol temporarily makes you kind of feel out of it and disconnected, we think it’s relaxing us, but it’s actually stressing our body more for 24 hours. And if we can get outside, like you said, and do grounding or earthing—and I have some great—I was about to say great documentaries. 

I do have a great documentary actually on that linked in the Learn True Health Facebook group under announcements. There’s an amazing documentary that we have uploaded into our Facebook group that we got permission to upload. But I have a few episodes on earthing and grounding. The importance of it, and that there are 26 studies that prove that by getting out in nature and putting your feet on the ground, or using a grounding mat if you live in a condo and you have no access to grass. By releasing those excess electrons, it decreases stress in the body, and it decreases inflammation in the body. Even people with MS and other autoimmune disorders that are triggered by inflammation see great success.

I love your very powerful and doable advice of breathing, of tuning into yourself, and of walking as much as you can out in nature—barefoot so that you can earth and ground. And then try cutting out alcohol, or try taking what’s in your diet that that little voice that you talked about, that wise but quiet voice inside you that knows that it really is time to stop drinking the coffee and switch to green tea. Switch to nut-based milk instead of cow milk because it’s affecting your immune system. Or give up the alcohol for some kombucha. Or some herbal tea.


[01:30:06] Jenny Fenig: Oh my gosh, I love kombucha.


[01:30:07] Ashley James: Right, so good. It’s so good


[01:30:09] Jenny Fenig: Oh, yeah. I have one on my desk right now. Jalapeño-kiwi-cucumber blend.


[01:30:14] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


[01:30:14] Jenny Fenig: I just recently discovered that one. It’s that Health-Ade kombucha brand and they have a jalapeño-kiwi-cucumber. Those of you who might experiment with no alcohol or you love kombucha, I highly recommend that variety.


[01:30:27] Ashley James: Yeah, switch to kombucha.


[01:30:30] Jenny Fenig: That jalapeño has that little kick. You still want the kick in your life, that’s the thing. You thought alcohol gave you the kick, but you can get kicks in other ways.


[01:30:37] Ashley James: Absolutely. I go to the farmer’s market and there’s a local company. They fill up my big glass bottle with it. They have the most delicious strawberry one. They also have a pineapple one, and a ginger one. I love it. My husband’s addicted to the cayenne.


[01:30:56] Jenny Fenig: Cayenne pepper? Cayenne cleanse?


[01:30:58] Ashley James: Yeah. I think it’s the cayenne and ginger or something. There are so many out there. There are just fun things to swap out. But at the root of it, I want us to just ask ourselves, is this serving me? Is this really serving me on a deeper level? Or is this masking something? Is this really fulfilling a need? Or is this just masking some symptoms? If you had a headache and you just take Advil, you’re not really serving yourself in the long run because that headache is your body trying to say something.


[01:31:35] Jenny Fenig: Exactly.


[01:31:36] Ashley James: I think your life is going to express in different ways to show you that there’s some deep healing you can do, but you have to stop masking things. I don’t think we can truly do deep healing if we’re drinking alcohol every day.


[01:31:50] Jenny Fenig: Totally. That’s the thing is we’ve been fed a narrative that we aren’t strong enough to feel things. So the way through that is through drugs, through some kind of numbing technique, or some kind of numbing substance. Alcohol numbs you. I experimented with plenty of drugs growing up. I numbed out from feeling things, from feeling stuff that felt very, very hard to feel. 

The same thing when I went through childbirth, and I did so much study. I actually want to feel it. It’s okay, every woman can decide what’s right for her, but I wanted to feel the contractions. I wanted to feel the birth happening. I trusted my body. I didn’t need to numb out on that. You reclaim your power when you know that you can feel things. There are people who can help you feel things. I’ve worked with plenty of healers, therapists, and all the things. But gosh, there is liberation on the other side of feeling that stuff and knowing that it won’t kill you. It’s just going to make you stronger. You’re going to be reminded about who you are, and it will prepare you for all the other journeys you’re going to take in your life.


[01:33:12] Ashley James: Beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. It has been such a pleasure to have this conversation with you, Jenny. I look forward to seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. We’re all seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but I look forward to implementing everything that we learned here today and possibly having you back on the show to see how things are progressing and have you come to share more with us.


[01:33:41] Jenny Fenig: That would be lovely. Thank you so much. It’s been a really, really powerful conversation. I send so much love and courage to everyone. We’re really creating the future today. We’re living it, and we’re living in a really fascinating time. I know it’s hard, but I also keep reminding myself when I say it to others, what a fascinating time to be alive. We could have chosen different times, you know what I mean? And we’re here now. Okay. Let’s show up, and let’s just do our best. Let’s keep choosing health. Let’s keep choosing the healthy path as best we can.


[01:34:24] Ashley James: An ancient Chinese proverb, “May you live in interesting times.” And that can be taken many ways. I love that. Let’s just keep choosing health and keep choosing the healthy path no matter what. Thank you so much, Jenny. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show.


[01:34:40] Jenny Fenig: Thank you.


[01:34:42] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Jenny Fenig. Please check out IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition by going to That’s, sign up for a free module, and see if it’s right for you. See if taking the Institute for Integrative Nutrition’s health coach training program is the path that you want to take either for your own personal growth to help yourself, your family, or your friends, or adding tools to your tool belt, or having a career. This is the career that you can do from home. Now is the time to invest in our own education and experience. Now is the time to dive into personal growth.

I don’t want to say we could turn these lemons into lemonade, but sugar-free lemonade. We can take the hand we’ve been dealt right now, and we can turn it around and figure out how we can gain the most benefit. If you have to be at home right now, then find ways of enriching your life, enriching your experiences. Things like doing online school. It’s a fantastic way to spend your time to grow and to learn. If your kids are doing school from home, why not you as well?

So check out IIN. And you know what, I’ve heard a lot of parents have shared the IIN course with their whole family. My husband watched some of the videos and some of the training modules with me and really enjoyed it. I know that older kids often love learning from it as well. It’s something that you can share with your children and maybe make it part of your homeschooling. So go to, check it out, and give them a call. Make sure you mention Ashley James and Learn True Health podcast for the listener discount.

Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing these episodes. Come join the Learn True Health Facebook group, and have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.



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Dr. Laura Kelly And Ashley James


  • Benefits of eating mushrooms
  • Isolates versus complex herb cocktail as medicine
  • Importance of self-care
  • What contributes to bone loss and fractures
  • Nutrition is foundational medicine
  • Medicine is part of life


What is self-care? How do you practice self-care? Dr. Laura Kelly shares what self-care is, and it may be different for everybody. She explains that self-care includes everything about us from the food we eat down to our thoughts. We need to listen and know our bodies really well so we can practice self-care daily. She also shares how her patients, including her mom, were able to heal their bone diseases through her protocol.


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I’m so excited for you to learn from Dr. Laura Kelly today. She wrote a book using food, nutrition, and herbs to support the body in growing healthy, strong, flexible bones at any age. You can be a grandma. You can be in your 90s. You could be a 100-year-old marathon runner. You could be a 20-year-old. Whatever age you are, now is the time to start growing a healthy skeletal system. And what’s so cool is she’s even seen some of her patients and some of her readers reverse other diseases as well. Even her mom reversed calcification in the arteries of her heart after following this protocol because by following this protocol, you’re supporting the body’s ability to lay down healthy mineralization and create flexible bones so that they don’t fracture, so that they’re stronger, and that also supports the body in balancing minerals even in the soft tissue as well. So it’s very exciting.

We also get into talking so much about the contrast between natural medicine and drug-based medicine, and just new ways of looking at it, which I think are really exciting especially because I know, I know you’re going to be sharing this episode with someone you care about. For all the new listeners that this is their first episode, welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I am so excited to have you here. Dr. Laura Kelly is going to be giving away a copy of her book to a lucky listener, so please come join the Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group. It’s free. It’s a wonderful community, very supportive. If you’re into holistic health and you want to be part of a community that’s all into holistic health, you’ve come to the right place. Join the Learn True Health Facebook group

Now, as we talk about different minerals, supplements, herbs, and foods, one thing that I have to let you know about is my favorite magnesium soak. Magnesium is the most important mineral for the body. Now there are over 60 minerals. The body needs at least 60 essential minerals to fully function, but there are elements and there are so many nutrients in the soil that the body needs that plants then digest, and that’s when we eat the plants, we get them. Sometimes we need to take them as a supplement, but the most important is magnesium, and magnesium is used so quickly and so readily by the body, we’re chronically deficient in it. And this is why I love this particular magnesium soak. I’ve had the founder of this company on the show several times. Her name is Kristen Bowen. So you can go to my website, and type in Kristen Bowen, and listen to the past episodes.

At her worst, she was I believe 97 pounds, having 30 seizures a day, and in a wheelchair unable to communicate. And that was at her lowest. She was able to, with the help of her family, get her life back, and her health back. She found that the thing that made the biggest difference for her recovery was soaking in magnesium. It’s a special concentration from nature. It’s from the Zechstein Sea. It also has other co-factors in it. And when we soak in it, we absorb an average of 20 grams of magnesium. You can’t get that much if you take oral because oral magnesium reacts very poorly with the digestive system, and it’s just not economical for us to get IV magnesium—going to a doctor and getting IV magnesium. So it’s very economical to be able to soak in magnesium at home. It’s safe for children, it’s safe for pregnancy, it’s safe for everyone. So please check out the links in today’s episode.

Also, for Dr. Kelly’s book, for Dr. Kelly’s website, and for the magnesium soak that I recommend, you can get it from the website and use coupon code LTH for the listener discount. That’s Grab the big jug. It says undiluted magnesium soak. You buy that big jug, and then use the coupon code at checkout LTH, as in Learn True Health, LTH for the listener discount. And check out those episodes that I did with Kristen Bowen. It’s quite fascinating.

I’m so excited for you to learn from Dr. Laura Kelly, and she’s promised to come back on the show because she has invented software that helps us to decipher and understand our genetic expressions. How cool is that? So she’s going to come back on the show and continue this wonderful discussion about how we can uncover what our body needs, our unique needs to support our optimal health.

Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this episode with those you care about. All those friends and family that want to have strong healthy bones. I even know some marathon runners that I’ll be sharing this episode with because they suffer from chronic fractures. So this is not just an episode for those who are senior citizens. This is an episode for everyone. Everyone deserves to have strong flexible bones at any age, and if it takes just doing a few tweaks to your lifestyle, to your diet, to your supplement routine to make such a huge health difference, why not. You’re worth it. It’s such a worthwhile investment.

I highly recommend getting Dr. Kelly’s book after listening to this episode. I already bought a few copies for my friends and family. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day and enjoy today’s interview.

Photo by Karolina Grabowska from Pexels


[00:05:59] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 443. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have Dr. Laura Kelly on the show. What a fascinating book. You have published The Healthy Bones, how we can, through food, nourish our skeletal system so we can reverse and prevent osteopenia, osteoporosis, osteoarthritis. Fantastic. I’m so excited to have you on the show today. Welcome.


[00:06:38] Dr. Laura Kelly: Thank you, Ashley. It’s good to be here.


[00:06:40] Ashley James: Absolutely. This is such an important topic, especially when we look at demographics and we see that our wonderful baby boomer parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles—that generation has moved into that era where their MDs are pushing them to be on drugs like Boniva or Fosamax, right? I don’t even know if those are still available. Drugs like that have caused so much harm to people in the past. I see it. I see people, especially seniors, being pushed to have drug after drug after drug. The body doesn’t have a drug deficiency. The body has a mineral deficiency.


[00:07:25] Dr. Laura Kelly: Right. That’s a good way to put it.


[00:07:28] Ashley James: Right, right.


[00:07:29] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah. I mean it’s certainly a deficiency issue, for sure.


[00:07:33] Ashley James: Right. It just makes sense, but unfortunately for the MD, the only tool they have is drugs. They were never taught in medical school about nutrition, and of course, you were. Before we dive into how we can use food to heal our body and prevent and reverse disease, I’d love for you to tell us what happened in your life that made you want to become a doctor of oriental medicine, and made you want to practice medicine the way that you do?


[00:08:06] Dr. Laura Kelly: I always wanted to study medicine from when I was a little kid. It runs in my family. My uncle was head of neurosurgery, at George Washington University for 20 years. My other uncle is a physicist, my brother is a surgeon. So there’s a lot of medicine and a lot of medical thought in my family. And when it came time to get serious about life and start thinking about what I actually wanted to do as an adult, which happened quite late for me, which was around age 35, I started on the medical path. I started going back to school pre-med at UCLA, that sort of thing and intended on going to medical school. And then, as I approached that, it started to become apparent that path was not satisfying what I was looking for.


[00:09:06] Ashley James: What happened? So were you a teenager? Were you in pre-med?


[00:09:12] Dr. Laura Kelly: No, no, no. This was when I was older. This was when I was 35.


[00:09:15] Ashley James: Really? So what happened though? What happened that made you see that drug-based medicine wasn’t fulfilling?


[00:09:24] Dr. Laura Kelly: It wasn’t anything external, and it wasn’t an issue with me. It wasn’t a health issue with me or anything like that. It was really an internal drive. I had always felt close to nature, and that seemed to me to be the source of all things in this regard. That there were patterns here that were easy, natural, and harmonious. And it didn’t make sense to me in the larger picture to step very far away from that if I was talking about healing and working with a body, which came out of nature. So there was a very strong internal instinctual drive towards that, which I’d never heard about alternative medicine very much before. It wasn’t something that happened in my family, but it just was there, that drive, and I sort of re-examined the medical path. I thought there must be another way into medicine.

So I started looking around and I found that Chinese medicine was very rigorous, and there were thousands, literally thousands of years of documentation, and thousands and thousands of years of case reports. There was enough science available in medicine for me to feel satisfied because I have a strong drive for knowledge. This medicine just appealed to me. It fit with the natural paradigm in an incredibly beautiful way. I mean Chinese medicine, again, the current literature that we still use today started 5000 years ago. There’s a book 5000 years ago that we still read.


[00:11:14] Ashley James: Wow.


[00:11:16] Dr. Laura Kelly: That came out of philosophy. It didn’t come out of let’s make a drug. It came out of natural philosophy. Natural philosophy evolved into medicine, and then it became medicine officially 5000 years ago. That kind of progression made a lot of sense to me intellectually.


[00:11:41] Ashley James: What is the philosophy? How is the philosophy of oriental medicine, as a doctor, differ from seeing an MD and their philosophy that governs how they practice medicine?


[00:11:57] Dr. Laura Kelly: Well the philosophy of the Taoist-based, which is sort of a philosophy of oneness with nature, essentially if you can boil it down to something. And the fact that we are part of nature and we are completely not extricable from that process. The things that make the amino acids and the things that makeup and the structures around us, we are made of the same things. We’re all made of the same things. So that harmony is inherent in Chinese medicine, and I think is inherent in all-natural medicines and all traditional natural medicines that are originating out of cultures that are connected to cultural traditions. Which is very different from the current western medical paradigm, which it’s an analysis. That’s an analysis-based, and that comes around from something like having a microscope and trying to see smaller and smaller pieces, and smaller and smaller parts and isolate understanding. That’s very different. It’s just a different way of looking at the world, and it’s a different way of looking at medicine and the body. They’re both, obviously, entirely valid. They’re just different.


[00:13:23] Ashley James: What’s been described to me is that we need to know when to which doctor, not witch doctors. We need to know when to go to the MD. When to go to the emergency room, essentially. When to go to your Naturopath. When to go to your doctor of oriental medicine. When you go to your chiropractor, right? There are several different forms of medicine and they’re all valid. And if we look at the history of modern medicine in the last 115 years or so, what then became the AMA, the AMA, for so many years, has done huge slander campaigns against all other forms of medicine. And they actually coined it as alternative medicine. And that is almost like it’s Orwellian in a sense that if they can label everything else, everything that isn’t drug-based medicine alternative medicine, then what they’ve done is they made it sound less than.

A Naturopath that I’ve worked with said that if you said a German shepherd was the only actual dog, and every other dog was an alternative dog—the German shepherd is the one dog everyone should have, but a greyhound is an alternative dog, a little Weiner dog is an alternative dog, and the Australian shepherd is an alternative dog. That is absolutely silly, right? It’s completely silly. There is no such thing as alternative medicine. That term was used to discredit valid forms of medicine.

As a doctor of oriental medicine, you’re saying that it’s quite science-based for the last 5000 years. Now there is an appeal to novelty. I was recently sharing a study with someone. In the ‘70s, they were able to reverse gestational diabetes. It was an amazing study, but it was done in the ‘70s. This woman then said, “That’s not valid, it was done in the ‘70s.” I’m thinking, did our genes all of a sudden change? Are we no longer the same humans as the ‘70s? Why isn’t a study that was done 50 years ago valid? I think that’s really funny.

Perhaps there are some listeners who think that oriental medicine, yes, it may have been practiced for 5000 years, but at some point, we practiced bloodletting. We realized that’s not a valid form of medicine, but at the time it was science. What could you share with us that proves that oriental medicine is quite valid now? What kinds of recent studies are showing how it can very much help us?


[00:16:30] Dr. Laura Kelly: I mean there are two parts to that answer, and the first part is like you said, our bodies are still the same as they were. Until we have different bodies, then the things that worked 5000 years ago will still work, and the things that work in the ‘70s will still work. What’s happening now, for example, let’s take malaria. So malaria, obviously, one of the problems is that the bugs get used to the drugs. The World Health Organization is in charge of defining what malaria drugs are being used. 

It was not that long ago, maybe it was 10 years ago, that it was realized that there’s a traditional Chinese medical formula for malaria. I think it’s probably 8 or 12—I’m sorry, I don’t remember exactly. But you learn it, and what you learn is that you can take this prophylactically. You can take this before you are exposed, and you can take it as a treatment, and it works. Malaria is not a big deal if you know how to treat it with this. That’s what you learn in school, that’s what the books say, and that’s what everything says. 

So in 2005, maybe, I’m sorry, I don’t remember the date. There was a Chinese medical researcher who brought forward the isolate from one of the main herbs in this formula and said we can cure malaria with this and won the Nobel prize. She won the Nobel prize in medicine for this isolate from a Chinese medical herb that had been used for thousands of years, and the WHO adopted this herb and said, yes, this is absolutely correct. This herb works. So what they did is they created a drug cocktail for malaria with this as the key component because the other drugs that they had been using against malaria were starting to fall off. They weren’t working anymore. So they added this constituent, which is an isolate, and it worked for a number of years. It is, as far as, I know starting to fall off now. The bugs are starting to become accustomed to this isolate as well. So they’re going to have to keep looking and look for more things.

There are two issues with this. One of them is that this was a malaria formula that we all know that is useful, functional, and does what it says it’s going to do, so much so that the WHO said this is a drug. The problem comes when you pull isolates, and this goes back to the concept of different medicines. If you pull an isolate out of a complex formula, if you have 8 herbs or 12 herbs, you’re going to have hundreds and hundreds of active ingredients, and they’re all going to be working against each other and with each other. And that combination, that’s a massive numerical combination of effect, which is not possible to replicate. 

So if you pull out one isolate from the thousands and thousands or millions of reactions that are occurring within your system with all of those herbs, you’re exposing the effect to exactly what happened, which is the bugs—because it’s an isolate—can now overcome this single substance. Where it was when it was part of a much larger combination, it was harder for the body of the bug to overcome. There’s a danger a little bit when you’re moving between medicines that way if you don’t understand the complexity of the synergy of the effect of the medicinal herbs that you’re working with. You use an isolate because that’s the medicine you work in, the medical paradigm is isolationist. That is a little bit off the subject.


[00:20:34] Ashley James: No, that’s brilliant. That’s right on point. Do the Chinese herbs that they’ve used for thousands of years for malaria still work today? Or has malaria adapted?


[00:20:49] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. It still works in combination, as far as I know. The bug hasn’t completely overcome this isolate, but it’s starting to. I think it’s in Cambodia that it started to become non-effective or less effective.


[00:21:06] Ashley James: The isolate was turned into a drug, but I mean the original cocktail of Chinese herbs? The original, not the isolate, but the original cocktail of herbs, are they still used, and are they still valid?


[00:21:21] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. Until I hear otherwise, they are still valid, and that’s because of the complexity that you encounter when you combine 8 or 10 herbs with, let’s just say, 40 active constituents that are going to all playoff against each other. You’re creating a complex, complex response in the system. So, yeah.


[00:21:45] Ashley James: I interviewed a doctor who’s been an MD for 40 years, although he studied in a part of Germany that very interesting—while he was becoming a surgeon, while all these doctors become surgeons, they’re also taught acupuncture and homeopathy at the same time at the university level. He came to the United States 40 years ago thinking that all doctors knew homeopathy and acupuncture.


[00:22:09] Dr. Laura Kelly: Oh, that’s wonderful.


[00:22:10] Ashley James: And then he was like, what’s going on here? Why are we giving drugs to people? His name is Dr. Klinghardt, and he has an amazing, amazing ability to help children who are on the spectrum no longer be on the spectrum, also people who have Lyme disease, and just these very strange and hard to get over illnesses. He says his favorite thing to do is to find—someone that needs a drug, let’s say, and then—the herbal alternative that works better than the drug. 

So he doesn’t ever use drugs unless he absolutely, absolutely, absolutely needs to. But he says that herbs always work better than the drug that would be prescribed to that symptom because most drugs are an isolate, like you said, of an herb. Like a compound of an herb, but they throw away all the other medicinal benefits from the herb when they just isolate one component. And this is the problem because drugs are for-profit—I know I’m singing to the choir—they end up looking to make a profit and protect patents instead of looking out for the greater good of humanity, in which case we would still be using and promoting the herbal complex that has worked to prevent and cure malaria.


[00:23:45] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. I think that there are quite a lot of people—to defend some of them—who are well-meaning. There was a symposium yesterday, and the discussion was about certain vaccine development. The concept around vaccine development is to find something that can help the world, right? To cure whatever disease is going to be, but the paradigm with which that is in is the paradigm of what’s the disease, and what’s the treatment. And the human body and the environment in which that disease is occurring is left out of that equation.

There’s a whole other side of medicine, which is the side of medicine that I chose to practice, which is primarily concerned with the human body, the environment of that human body, and the environment into which the disease comes. It’s like two different approaches to the same median, which is the human body interacting with the world. The human body interacting with the disease. And they have one angle, which is the disease treatment, and we have one angle, which is the environment of the body itself. Bringing them together is what everybody really needs, right?

When the problem that you’re speaking about before about the AMA trashing all of us is really unfortunate to me. It’s not classy, you know what I mean? It’s just not classy. When you start mixing dogma and medicine, I think you have a recipe for a real problem.


[00:25:32] Ashley James: That’s why I believe that people should know more about each kind of doctor, each kind of medicine. Instead of having a dogma about it, they can go to the right practitioner. You wouldn’t take your car to see a plumber. Don’t take your body to always the same kind of doctor because you’re just going to get their one philosophy of medicine. So just know which one to go to when, and I’ve had several episodes about this. So let’s learn more about you, how you practice medicine, and as a doctor of oriental medicine. Especially because you’re so excited about the science behind it, the philosophy that we are part of nature, and let’s use nature to bolster the environment of our body so our body can really do the heavy lifting when it comes to fighting off disease, right?

Let’s bolster our own amazing God-given ability. If you’re a spiritual person, you believe in God, and you start studying how the immune system works, it is amazing. When I started studying and really getting into it, we are so complex. Our immune system is so brilliant. Our body functions are so beautiful, so harmonious. There are thousands of things all going on together in harmony. There’s nothing like it. There’s absolutely nothing like it. And even if you look some at simpler organisms, they’re still incredibly complex and beautiful, and there’s this balance. Homeostasis is amazing.

If you’re someone that doesn’t believe in God, look into the science and just see how complex, beautiful, and intelligent it is. We have to really appreciate that our body has an innate intelligence to come back into balance, and it’s our job to help it. You as a doctor look to facilitate bringing the body back into balance so the body’s intelligence can do all the work, right?


[00:27:44] Dr. Laura Kelly: That’s beautifully said. Absolutely. That’s exactly what I do because there isn’t any reason to try and throw it off. I mean certainly, there are circumstances, like Dr. Klinghardt, if you’ve gotten to the end, you’ve tried everything, and if the problem is just too entrenched or it’s a genetic problem, then you may not have success. But even then, you can somewhat. The last resort, of course, is to really hit it hard with the heavy hammer of a western pharmaceutical. Up until that point, there’s incredible knowledge within the body that if you give it the right pieces, it knows what to do with them. That’s for sure.


[00:28:31] Ashley James: Your book is about supporting the skeletal system. What led you to want to publish this book?


[00:28:40] Dr. Laura Kelly: My mother. She had a progressive bone loss for about 18 years, and she finally hit the point where her doctor said to her, if you don’t take this reclass shot, then I can’t treat you any further because you will break your hip, and then you might die. My mother called me, and I was in school at that time. She said, “What am I supposed to do?” And I said, “Well, you know what, there are a number of herbs that I know fix fractures. Let me look into this. I’ll get back to you in a couple of months.”

So I took a fracture map of the world, I looked at high and low fracture rates in the elderly over time, pulled apart the diets of the people with the high and low fractures, and figured out what was missing and what needed to happen. I called her back in two months and I said, “Here’s a list of the reasons why I believe this is happening. So pick three of them and start there.” So she did that, and then we did another DEXA scan early. You’re supposed to do them every two years. We did it in 15 months, and for the first time in 18 years, she had no bone loss. So her doctor said, “Well, that’s a complete fluke. You still have to take medicine.” And my mother said, “Well, you know what, let’s just wait just a minute.”

So in the meantime, she had a scan and her cardiologist called me and she said, “What did you do? Because the plaque is clearing out of her carotid arteries.” So I said, “It’s all nutritionally-based. What I’m doing is activating the mechanisms that she already has in her body that weren’t activated to guide the calcium where it needs to go. And I guess, as a byproduct of that, it happens to be clearing the calcified plaque out of her arteries.” So she said, “Well, you need to write a book for doctors. You need to write a book for doctors because you’re sort of sciencey. You bridge the gap.” So I started that, and then I realized that this wasn’t for doctors. That this was medicine that people can do themselves.

Of course, MDs, medically trained doctors, do need to understand these principles and practices because they can help their patients. But it felt more important to me, at the time, and it probably still is more important to me to write it for my mother and for other mothers because there isn’t a reason to fear this diagnosis in 99% of cases or 99.9%, and you can actually take care of it yourself. So it made much more sense to write the book, again, for mothers.

So I called my mother and I said, “Hey, listen.” And by this time, she had had a second DEXA scan, again, not in four years, but still within another year maybe, and she still had no bone loss. So we realized that this wasn’t a fluke. Her doctor said, “Okay, well maybe it’s not a fluke.” So I called my mother and I said, “You know what, let’s write this together because this is for you. Let’s do it.” So we did that. We called a publisher and said, “Do you want to publish this?” And Chelsea Green, a wonderful publisher, said yes. So we sat down and wrote it.

Photo by Vo Thuy Tien from Pexels


[00:32:14] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. I love it. I’m so excited.


[00:32:20] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah. It was a wonderful process.


[00:32:21] Ashley James: Okay. So what I want to know is why was she reluctant to get the shots? Most people are super wanting to do whatever their doctor says. I know a lot of people who just go in. They go in because they’re sick and the doctor says, while you’re here, let’s give you a flu shot. Well, they’re sick. Well, their well their immune system is compromised. Oh, it’s time for these other vaccines. Oh, we need to give you the… So anyway, most people go in and get whatever shot, whatever medication, blindly follow without question whatever their doctor says. You said it was a reclass shot? What was it about that had your mother go wait a second, I want to think about this. Why was she not super eager to do exactly what her doctor said without question?


[00:33:20] Dr. Laura Kelly: Because I had started going to alternative medicine school. I think I was in year six at that point out of seven, or maybe I was actually in year seven. I’m sorry, I was in year seven. I had already been speaking to her and taking care of her from this more natural perspective for six years. So over that six-year period, gone from not really knowing or having any interest to buy now at year seven, she was sort of saying okay, well wait a minute, this is actually serious. This is actually real. This is actually right. When that came up, then she could turn to me instead of her doctor.


[00:34:13] Ashley James: You had been in school for oriental medicine for a while, so you had a few years to have her see some results. What kind of results was she getting to open her eyes to natural medicine? Did you help her through any other health problems before this?


[00:34:37] Dr. Laura Kelly: No. She was fairly healthy. She was very healthy really, to begin with. She has a natural instinct as well, which I think had never been allowed to live. Do you know what I mean? I think that was a latent belief or a latent tendency in her to connect with nature and all that sort of thing. But she grew up in the ‘50s, and life was a little different then. She didn’t participate in the ‘60s revolution, so she was outside of any of that mind-expanding situation that occurred. That was latent in her, and I think that when I took the step, it allowed her to let that out a little bit, and let her think about exploring other things other than the things that she’d been told. So I think it was a gradual process, but again, it was inherent in her already.


[00:35:41] Ashley James: I love it. We have to foster that quiet voice inside of us that is the first voice, that little voice that comes in first, and then we usually override it. It’s like the voice that says bring an umbrella when it’s sunny outside. That’s the voice, right? Or bring a sweater when it’s hot outside. That little voice, that first voice. So when a doctor says, You have to take this medicine, and that little voice says, no, I don’t think so. Something feels wrong here. We just need to listen. Just take a step back.


[00:36:18] Dr. Laura Kelly: That’s really wonderful. That’s a wonderful thing to say. But that’s not taught, Ashley. We don’t learn to do that in our culture. We don’t learn to sit with ourselves quietly and listen. It’s something that definitely happens. I mean meditation, these moving meditations, tai chi, and things like this. For example, part of the tradition of medicine that I learned, all of this is part of medicine. All of this is part of caring for the body. You don’t come with an instruction manual. You don’t come with all of the things that you need in order to take care of yourself, but you come with, in that tradition, medical practices. Medical practices that you carry with you throughout your life in order to keep yourself healthy, in order to treat yourself, in order to listen to your body. And you learn how to do that within that culture.

We don’t learn that here. It’s not part of our cultural upbringing. It’s not part of our cultural heritage. Everything should function great, and then when it stops functioning great we go, oh, what am I supposed to do now? Okay, here’s somebody that knows what I’m supposed to do. I’m going to listen to them. Part of the holistic medical road is you learn to care for yourself from the beginning, and you learn to help the people that you live with. You learn to care for the people who are around you, and this is part of the medical structure.

So this is an inherently different way of approaching life. It’s saying part of my life is self-care. That’s a very powerful thing to learn when you’re young, right? I didn’t learn that until I was well into my 30s. But I can imagine what it would have felt like to learn that from when I was very young.


[00:38:24] Ashley James: Yes. Can you imagine if we raised an entire generation to practice self-care?


[00:38:30] Dr. Laura Kelly: I can’t, I cannot, but it would be wonderful.


[00:38:34] Ashley James: Okay, one thing I’m deeply saddened by but I want to shed light on is that the rate of suicide for ages 10 to 26 has gone up so much. I believe it’s the second cause of death in that generation right now. That it is so high. There’s a huge disconnect, and with holistic medicine, we know that emotional, mental, and physical health because MDs mostly focus on the physical. They see a symptom they attack it with a drug, or they manage, they suppress symptoms. They manage things with drugs. There are enlightened MDs out there. I know sometimes I sound like I’m bashing them. I want us to just broaden our perspective and really see the whole forest. Just get a 30,000-foot view.

We have been taught that there’s a physical body and it’s separate. It’s separate from mental, emotional health, and that in our culture, when you have the mental and emotional issues, there’s something wrong with you. We’re either normal or abnormal. That’s a philosophy that says we’re broken. And that is just such an incomplete version of what it is. The experience of what it is to be human.


[00:40:02] Dr. Laura Kelly: It’s inhuman.


[00:40:04] Ashley James: Right. It’s inhuman to think that when someone has mental and emotional unhealth, that we’re broken. When in fact, it is part of being human. That we have an emotional body. We have mental health things to work out, and it’s not you’re normal or abnormal, you’re human, right? 

What we’re seeing is suicide rates going up is a symptom of a problem that our medical system is broken, which we already knew that. But also, our philosophy—as parents, as aunts and uncles, and as cousins—of how we’re raising this generation is incomplete. And what we need to do is come back to what you’re saying. Maybe this is your next book. Just like you looked at cultures that have the lowest rate of osteoporosis and the lowest rate of fractures, and then you looked at what was different in their diet versus the ones with the highest. What about cultures that have the lowest rate of suicide and what they’re doing differently? What philosophy are they doing differently? 

I really feel that self-care taught at an early age also increases self-worth, and if we can practice things like becoming quiet, doing breathing—I mean meditation kind of is a trigger word for some people because it seems too daunting. But simply going into oneself and just turn off the cell phone. Turn off the outside stimulus, and go into oneself—journal, breathe, get out in nature, do some self-reflection, share your thoughts and feelings with someone who’s supportive, and disconnect from negative energy, negative social media, that kind of thing, and practice self-care. There would also be a component of self-love and self-respect. 

We really need to look at what’s going on because if we have a generation that has huge mental and emotional health issues, they’re not practicing self-care, self-love. And these are the things that also, as you say, are done in cultures that have less disease.


[00:42:35] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. I mean it is a philosophical issue back to that. There isn’t a cultural philosophy that I can pinpoint in America that’s effective in that sort of way. I didn’t grow up with one. So it’s hard, at any point, to say okay, now we have to find a philosophy because that’s not how it works. And that’s why everybody gets sort of tripped up with this concept. Can I meditate? Like you said, it’s really daunting because there is no philosophical base for the concept. 

It doesn’t matter if you’re meditating. It doesn’t matter if you call it that. It doesn’t matter if you do it right. None of that matters. What matters is that you are listening to yourself, and you’re saying I am making space for you. I am making time for you. That’s it. That’s all that actually matters about it. Because when you start to recognize that you just want to make space for yourself, whatever that means for you, then you are respecting yourself. Then you’re respecting your body, and you’re respecting your mind. The response that you get from that will be enormous.

To me, it’s about separating it from the concepts because we don’t have a philosophy in which to place the concepts. So let’s just get rid of them and say well, what am I actually doing? What I’m actually doing is respecting and loving myself, and that’s all I have to do. And if you start there, then you will grow your own philosophy out of that seed. That’s how I help people in a mental and philosophical way. It’s really just about do I love myself enough to sit and say, I’m going to give myself some space and time. If you find that you don’t, then you have to do some examination. Find ways into being good with sitting with yourself and giving yourself respect. But this takes us back to the mental-physical conjunction. The lack of separation of these things.

We’ll pull it back down to reality. When you start to examine things like nutrition and brain function, the mechanisms in the brain, every single neurotransmitter turning into another neurotransmitter, every single function of the neurotransmitters, and the neurotransmitters themselves, all require different nutrients. The neurotransmitters need amino acids to be built. The translation of GABA to glutamate needs vitamin B6 and magnesium. If you don’t have these things, your brain isn’t going to work very well, and of course, you’re going to not feel good in a mental space. These are fundamental pieces. These are key important pieces.

And then the other part of that is, for example, with B6, if you’re looking, if you’re speaking with autistic kids or people with ADHD and focus problems, again, vitamin B6 is one of the key factors for transforming glutamate into GABA. And that’s the inhibition of the stimulation. So if you don’t have enough magnesium, which a majority of Americans apparently don’t according to all sources including the US government, but also a lot of issues can come around the B vitamins in terms of the transformation of the B vitamins within your body. Because the form that you eat a vitamin in is not the form your body uses it in. It has to go through transformational steps, and every single one of those transformational steps is regulated by a gene. All genes have the ability to be mutated or have polymorphisms.

So quite a lot of times, what you find is that even though this child is eating B vitamins, the pathway of transformation for some of the B vitamins isn’t working. So the form that he needs the B6 in order to transform the excitatory neurotransmitter into the inhibitory neurotransmitter his body doesn’t make. So he could eat B6 forever, and he still would not be able to efficiently make that transformation. So the glutamate will stay high, the inhibition of the GABA won’t happen, and he’s excited. 

But when you understand this process that the body has to go through these genetic transformations to make these things actually available, and that every single step is an opportunity for it to go wrong. When you start to understand those pathways you can say okay, now I need to give him the pre-transformed version of B6 because his body’s not doing it. And then the neurotransmitters start to function properly in that mechanism.


[00:48:20] Ashley James: Can that be derived from food? Or would that need to be a methylated B vitamin supplement?


[00:48:25] Dr. Laura Kelly: It would need to be a methylated supplement. So these are the pieces that are really key to understanding anything that you want. The entire system is built from nutrients, right? There’s no way around that. All nutrients and everything that comes into your body is information, essentially. How is that body set up to receive that information, and can it use the information? Does it understand the language? Or does it need help understanding that language information? That’s the base in my having looked at this and worked with lots and lots of patients, and thought about all different types of disease and all different types of mental states and things like this.

The bottom of the foundation of all this just simply is understanding. All of the nutrients are necessary—minerals, vitamins, everything is necessary. There’s nothing that’s not supposed to be there. It all has to be there. How does this particular person’s body respond and use that information—those nutrients? Let’s optimize that function as much as possible so that they can get the most out of everything that they’re taking because everybody’s taking supplements, and everybody’s trying to figure out what the right diet is. But without knowing this information, there is no optimization possible. Sometimes, it’s not possible to get happier, better brain function if you’re not transforming your B vitamins.

So these are things that just have to be known, and to me, this is fundamental medicine. From my perspective, the real foundational medicine of this body is nutrition because it’s the only way that it functions. As scientists, as doctors, we have to say, okay, this is the fundamental medicine. Let’s dig into it. Let’s pull it apart and figure out everything we need to understand how to make this work for us. And that wasn’t done by western medicine. Luckily now, it’s being done by a lot of people. And there’s a lot of nutritional medicine and research going on, are really coming to understand how these things function and why they’re so important.

Let me step back all the way to the very bottom of our bodies, which is our DNA. Not even speaking about it from the place of what it does, but speaking about the fact that what it is. DNA is made of something, and it’s made of nucleic acids. Nucleic acids, guess where we get them? We eat them, right? We have a pathway within us which is called a de novo synthesis pathway which can recycle what we have, but human breast milk is full of nucleic acid because that baby needs a huge supply of nucleic acids to build DNA because that baby is just pumping out cells rapidly.

Coming back again, the nucleic acids, we get them from what we eat, but we also need to structure them into DNA. Our body does that in the liver, but it does not do that without folate, without the vitamins, and without the nutrients. These are co-factors that our body uses to build our DNA. To take those nucleic acids, put them together, and make the strands. Without the co-factors of B vitamins, for example, it won’t happen. We won’t build DNA.

So when you’re looking at a system, for example, the immune system which is a rapid turnover—you’re going to get a turnover of cells every day, three to six days you’re going to get a full turnover of cells. The digestive tract, six days turnover of cells. These are rapidly turning over systems. Your body is constantly having to replenish cells, building cells all the time in these two systems. So these two systems need a lot of nucleic acids because you’re building a lot of DNA because there’s DNA in every cell.

You can pull nutrition back to this extremely base level and really see that this is really important because your immune system will not function if you don’t have enough nutritional co-factors, If you don’t have enough nucleic acids, which you get from mushrooms, for example.


[00:53:21] Ashley James: Ohh.


[00:53:22] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes, nice link, right?


[00:53:26] Ashley James: I love mushrooms so much.


[00:53:28] Dr. Laura Kelly: Mushrooms are amazing, and they’re the only real substantial source of nucleic acids in the plant kingdom.


[00:53:35] Ashley James: Wow, really?


[00:53:37] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah. This is why they have been used traditionally for thousands and thousands of years as a longevity food.


[00:53:42] Ashley James: Any mushroom? Or are there certain kinds of mushrooms that have more co-factors than others?


[00:53:48] Dr. Laura Kelly: They have different factors meaning there are multiple levels of function with mushrooms. So you have the source of nucleic acids within the mushrooms, which are the building blocks for the DNA, but then you also have specific factors within each of the different types of mushrooms that trigger different immune system cell type growth. So some of the immune some of the mushrooms will trigger early phase immune response like natural killer cells and macrophages, and some of the mushrooms will trigger later stage cells—T cells, B cells, and things like this. There are multiple layers to the mushrooms in terms of the immune system and longevity.


[00:54:31] Ashley James: What kind of mushrooms do you eat on a regular basis?


[00:54:34] Dr. Laura Kelly: I eat chaga. I fluctuate depending on whatever is around. But reishi daily staple, chaga tea once a month, lion’s mane sometimes, and sort of geared towards brain health neuroplasticity, things like that.


[00:55:00] Ashley James: So those are supplements you can drink as teas or take as extracts. What about eating? Are there certain types of mushrooms that are better than others?


[00:55:13] Dr. Laura Kelly: I’m not a massive expert on mushrooms, even though I’d like to be. I think that shiitakes are particularly good. They seem to be very complex. That’s what I would suggest.


[00:55:29] Ashley James: I’ve had Dr. Joel Fuhrman on the show, and he says that everyone should eat a half a cup of mushrooms a day for some of the same reasons you’re expressing. In addition, at least a half a cup of onion, and you can mix them together. You can eat it raw or cooked. For this one particular nutrient he was talking about, and there are so many nutrients in the mushrooms. I always thought they were just water. I didn’t think that there was anything nutritionally beneficial in them, but they’re actually completely superfoods. 

Obviously buy all mushrooms should be organic because you don’t want to buy pesticide-filled mushrooms. But he said the white button cap ones, the ones that are usually void of flavor, shiitake is so flavorful. So these are very mild in flavor, and they’re the least expensive ones. He said that it actually has this one nutrient. I forget what nutrient it was, but one nutrient he was talking about that helps the immune system that they were quite high in it. You could save money and buy—it’s usually $4 a pound organic—and get these little white button cap ones.

I love cooking with mushrooms. Aren’t the building blocks as well for vitamin D? It’s like D1 or something is in mushrooms.


[00:57:00] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes, that’s right. Maitake mushrooms are the only ones that actually have inherently vitamin D in them. Well, they have a significant amount of vitamin D compared to the rest of the mushrooms, but if you flip them up and put them in the sun gills up until they’re a little bit dry, they absorb vitamin D just like your skin does from the sun and they’ll store that.


[00:57:31] Ashley James: Yes. Then you eat it and then it’s like a vitamin D supplement.


[00:57:35] Dr. Laura Kelly: Exactly. It’s just way cheaper and more delicious.


[00:57:38] Ashley James: Oh, it’s so cool. That’s so neat. So besides mushrooms though, you’re saying that’s really the best source for the raw building blocks for nucleic acid. Would we have to then eat animals at that point if someone, for whatever reason, had adversity to mushrooms? Or is there anything else in the plant kingdom that we could eat?


[00:57:57] Dr. Laura Kelly: As far as I know, that’s the richest source is mushrooms. Other than that, you’re looking at organ meats, basically.


[00:58:08] Ashley James: Got it. Wow. I mean, that’s amazing. Let’s say someone eats the standard American diet but doesn’t eat mushrooms, doesn’t eat organ meats, they might be really low in nucleic acid.


[00:58:25] Dr. Laura Kelly: Well, this is a question. I mean, we do have a de novo synthesis pathway, which is we can recycle these pieces and make what we need to make, but again, when you’re dealing with a system with a high turnover like the immune system, the reproductive system, or the gastrointestinal system, you may not actually. This hasn’t really been researched, actually, which I find pretty interesting. It’s been researched more in Japan than it has here, by far. But there was one study that looked at if you’re an elite athlete and you’re pushing your body quite hard, one of the things that suffer post-exercise is immunity. So your immune system, the regulation goes down.

So there was research where they decided that they would supplement these elite athletes with nucleic acids post-exercise and see, and it stopped the immune fall-off.


[00:59:27] Ashley James: How did they supplement? With the actual supplement, or they ate mushrooms?


[00:59:31] Dr. Laura Kelly: No, nucleic acids. I don’t know if it was a synthesized nucleic acid. I’m not sure where they got them, but there was a nucleic acid supplement. It provokes an interesting idea, which is if you’re immune-compromised, you can generally say that if you’re suffering from a chronic condition, you can guess that you’re having low natural killer cell function, which is the first phase of the immune response. So it begs the question, what happens with people who are having faltering immune responses if we supplement them with nucleic acids? So they’re actually able to produce more DNA and more cells. I don’t know the answer to that, but I think it’s an interesting question from a supplementation standpoint, for sure.


[01:00:22] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, absolutely. So we’re looking at the body with a different philosophy. You mentioned that the body can recycle. So let’s say someone’s not eating foods that are rich in nucleic acid. The body’s recycling old cells as they die and reusing the nucleic acid. What co-factors are needed in order to do this recycling?


[01:00:55] Dr. Laura Kelly: You know what, Ashley, I don’t know because I have really just started digging into this in the past week because I’m writing a book on the immune system and longevity.


[01:01:05] Ashley James: Fantastic. Well, there’s my question for you. When you have completed that book, come back to the show and I want to know the answer.


[01:01:12] Dr. Laura Kelly: Definitely.


[01:01:14] Ashley James: Looking at each function of the body, for example, in recycling the body’s own glutathione, so glutathione is very expensive for the body to make. I believe the liver produces it. It’s our master antioxidant, so it’s obviously incredibly important, but it’s very expensive for the body to make. However, when selenium is present, which is a micronutrient—it’s like a mineral—then the body can recycle it. So that’s one of the co-factors the body needs to recycle glutathione.

If we make sure we supplement with selenium, you don’t need to overdo it. 200 micrograms a day or between 200 and 600, depending on your weight, is great. But that’s supporting the liver in recycling glutathione, which helps us to fight off cancer and other diseases. If we knew the factors needed in recycling other things in the body like nucleic acid, then we can make sure that we have them.


[01:02:21] Dr. Laura Kelly: Exactly. That’s my goal is to put together the list. Maybe someone has done this already. If anybody knows, definitely let us know, but I haven’t found any sort of supplementation in terms of exactly what you’re speaking of—providing nucleic acid bases, but also providing some co-factors along with that to really help the body produce the cells that it needs to produce. I think it’s a really interesting project.


[01:02:48] Ashley James: As you research, had you come across the effects of fasting, especially after 30 hours of fasting when the body’s ability to break down pathological tissue skyrockets?


[01:03:02] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes, yes, yes, yes.


[01:03:06] Ashley James: Is that part of your system, or do you recommend that for people looking to speed up their healing?


[01:03:12] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. Well, it depends. It depends on how weak you are. It depends on if you’re diabetic. If you’re diabetic, it’s not a good idea. That’s going to be a mess. You need to do that with serious supervision. But in general, yeah. The upregulation of all sorts of longevity factors on top of all of that, there isn’t really another way to kick the body into that sort of behavior, except by fasting. And again, looking back at—I’m sure many of your other guests have taken this road and spoke about this—how we evolved, it’s again like looking back to nature.

You look back to how we evolved and you say, how did this organism function? What does that mean for us in the environment we’re in, where food is completely plentiful? We can get whatever we want even if it doesn’t grow around here. All of these things are all questions to ask because there is a perfect harmony that comes out of evolution. The farther we get from those and the small choices that we make that distance us from that perfect harmony eventually are going to have an effect.

Coming back to look at how we evolved, which is if we went out and we killed this animal or whatever we ate for a while, and then we didn’t eat meat for three months or whatever. Giving the body the natural patterns, looking at those natural patterns, and saying how we evolved is with those patterns. So that’s probably going to be what our body is going to respond to.


[01:04:51] Ashley James: Right, right. In the west, we’re so afraid of even missing a meal let alone fasting, but there’s so much evidence to show that it’s incredibly healthy. And yes, I have done interviews about it, and there’s lots of science now proving that you can do fasting in a very healthy and restorative way.

I want to talk more about your book. Before I do, I want to bring up one more thing. I have a friend. It’s a friend’s mother, and she has had her gallbladder removed. She has basically had every part of your body you can have removed and still survive. This is exactly what she said to me, “I’ve had everything removed that you can without dying.” Gallbladder, she’s had her parathyroid removed, she’s had her appendix removed, so you go down the list.

She’s 60 years old, relatively healthy, and all of a sudden, a few weeks ago, began having huge dizziness, can’t walk, her legs won’t work, and people have to just support her weight. She was so dizzy she was vomiting. It took several hospitals to finally diagnose her with—first they said it was peripheral vertigo, which is not accurate. Then they said, okay, it’s central vertigo. And then a neurologist, after doing a lot of blood work said, she has virtually no copper in her system. So she’s being supplemented with 2mg of copper a day for a year, which I think is incredible.


[01:06:27] Dr. Laura Kelly: It’s high.


[01:06:29] Ashley James: Yeah, very high. But given that, the neurologist is not recommending any co-factors—not calcium, not magnesium, nothing. No co-factors at all. This woman has not had parathyroid for years, so her body has not regulated any of the minerals correctly. I’m kind of just taken aback. And she’s never done a bone density scan. I’m thinking, what’s going on…? Because you mentioned about the brain and how there are certain nutrients like if B6 is missing, you can actually—and I’ve heard of people having dementia, being put in nursing homes, and then a Naturopath is called by a family member. They get them on a B supplement and all of a sudden the lights come back on. They didn’t have dementia. They had a B-vitamin deficiency.

If you have a B6 deficiency, the brain is not going to function. But if you’re incredibly deficient in trace elements and minerals like copper, for example, or major ones like magnesium or calcium, the nervous system doesn’t function correctly. I’d love for you to share. For some people who let’s say they don’t have a thyroid or parathyroid. Their body really cannot regulate healthfully on its own, what steps do you recommend? Do you recommend that they definitely read your book and do this diet? What steps do you recommend, especially for this woman, my friend’s mother?


[01:07:56] Dr. Laura Kelly: Again, my book isn’t a diet. I’m not really a proponent of that because everybody has different needs, everybody has different things that they want to do, and the ways that they want to eat. So I’m not prescribing a diet, just to clarify.


[01:08:13] Ashley James: Love it.


[01:08:15] Dr. Laura Kelly: I’m saying here are the mechanisms in terms of how your bones work and your body works around those bones, and here are the things you need in order to activate those mechanisms. I’m not dictating how you need to get them. So if you want to get your calcium from dairy, you can. If you want to get your calcium from leafy greens, you can. It doesn’t matter to me. Within that context, she’s not going to be regulating calcium. She’s not going to be regulating the bone density aspect. Then there’s a mechanism called osteocalcin. This mechanism is really key to regulating all of that and making sure that the calcium is going the right place.

So understanding how to activate those mechanisms nutritionally sound really important to me for this person, and making sure that all of the factors are in place to make sure that those mechanisms are functioning without the oversight is really the situation that she wants to be in. If I were her doctor, I would run for her a nutrition evaluation first, and that’s going to look at basically all nutrients and say where are we with all of those things.

I may also run genetics for those nutritional pathways because it’s really important for her, especially this person with lack of regulation over this issue, to understand where we may be running into trouble. For example, this all started with me because my vitamin D levels were chronically low. I didn’t understand why for so long, and I took the standard dose of vitamin D, and I never erased them. I finally said this is ridiculous. So I ran my genetics, and I have terrible vitamin G receptor genetics. There are four different transformations that are going to make, three of mine are in the toilet.

So I tripled my dose of vitamin D, and I finally got where I needed to be. I would never have done that, and I spent years vitamin D deficient taking vitamin D. Especially for somebody who doesn’t have a lot of leeway, coming to understand if there are any things in the way from her body and saying, okay, let’s understand all of that, and then just make sure she has the proper doses of all of those nutrients, then you don’t need to overdose on any of the other ones. You don’t need to overdose on things because the body itself, like you were saying before, is so efficient that if you give it the right amounts of things, you’re not going to need to over supplement on anything and throw off because you’re going to throw something else off if you over supplement with copper.


[01:11:07] Ashley James: Absolutely.


[01:11:10] Dr. Laura Kelly: So you want to avoid doing that, of course, because you shouldn’t. You don’t need to, but what you do need to do is exactly like you said. You have to provide all of the co-factors that the copper needs to function, which is exactly the same situation that I encountered with my mother when her doctor had initially said, here take these calcium pills—1200 milligrams of calcium a day. Well, if you look at the research, 1200 milligrams of calcium a day doesn’t fix osteoporosis, and it also ups your chances of cardiovascular problems quite significantly.


[01:11:47] Ashley James: Especially because there are no other co-factors. Magnesium is needed to help place calcium correctly, and there are other nutrients as well, right? So if you’re only taking one, and they have to be in a great ratio, then you’re right. It’s not going to be placed correctly in the body. But just overdoing copper—and you’re much more of an expert than I am, but I know for example—throws vitamin C off, and it throws selenium off. Those three things have to be in the right ratios together. Because some people will overdose vitamin C, and that’s good in certain circumstances. But if you overdose vitamin C, it leeches copper from the body.

Copper deficiency leads to aneurysms because it’s needed in the production. It’s a co-factor in elastin, and it’s also needed for making pigment. So people who lose the ability to make pigment or have gray hair have a copper deficiency. Everything has to be done together in balance, but I love that you talk about this genetic component of epigenetics—looking at how the genes are expressing. I have the MTHFR SNP mutation—however, it’s said—and so I have to take a methylated B-vitamins in order to support my liver to do both phases of detox.

I haven’t even gone deeper into the genetics like looking at how my body—the four different genes that help the body make the D-vitamin, that’s incredibly interesting. So you do telemedicine. You see patients locally in LA, but you also work with people around the world. Can you order these tests and can you decipher them, these gene tests?


[01:13:43] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. I have actually. I’m in the process, and I’m almost finished building a piece of software that does this because it’s so important. If you want to stay healthy for as long as possible, you have to understand this. If you want to fix your type 2 diabetes, you have to do this. If you want to fix your heart disease, 90% of people who have these problems can reverse them. I don’t want to be too bold about it, but it can prevent, reverse, or mitigate the problems here.


[01:14:20] Ashley James: Absolutely. Even type 1 diabetics, they can increase their health so much that they require less insulin. I’ve known several type 1 diabetics who after focusing on health. They were able to cut down their insulin by over 70% because they increased insulin sensitivity, their body became more efficient. So even people who have issues where we’re not saying you’re curing it, but you can make it more efficient.


[01:14:52] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes, definitely. All of these things. Again, we know that we need to eat a good diet. We have good instincts, usually, about our own bodies and what we should and should not be eating. Over time we come to know that, but let’s get to it for real. Let’s just look at it and say, okay, your vitamin D function is terrible. You need to triple a dose. Okay, your B-vitamin functions are fantastic. Just sit in the sun for 10 minutes. We can do that. We can do that now.

What I’m building here is a piece of software that’s going to allow me or you, I’m building it for you, I’m building it for everyone. Again, it’s like the book for mothers. I’m building this piece of software for you, for people to be able to say okay, I have these tests, or if I don’t have them, I can order them here. They’re going to go through this engine, and I’m going to actually know exactly what I need to be taking, or exactly what I need to be eating because here’s a shopping list. I can walk into my grocery store and I can say oh, this is actually the food I need.


[01:15:59] Ashley James: And the herbs.


[01:16:01] Dr. Laura Kelly: The herbs, all of it. Because herbs are concentrated nutrients. That’s what herbs are and that’s why they work.


[01:16:09] Ashley James: I love it. Let’s dive into your research in your book. You studied the cultures, the countries that have the highest rates of osteoporosis, osteopenia, and fractures, and you also study the lowest. Let’s talk about the bad first. What are the commonalities that the cultures that have the worst bone density? What are some commonalities that you feel contribute to bone loss and fractures?


[01:16:43] Dr. Laura Kelly: The two areas of the world are the US and Scandinavia. It’s pretty clear, and they’re significantly higher than they should be than everywhere else. It’s pretty clear in Scandinavia that it’s the vitamin D winter. I think that there’s really not much else to say there. It’s just simply the lack of vitamin D. There was a lot of research done around vitamin A, the balance of vitamin A and vitamin D, and how really important that is for bone health. Just not having enough sunlight is a deficiency.


[01:17:24] Ashley James: Right. I’ve heard some plant-based doctors have come on the show and have shared. I haven’t seen the studies so it would be interesting, but they’ve cited that countries—so certain cultures like Africa and Asia—that consume no cow dairy or very limited consumption have the highest bone density. And cultures that consume the most cow dairy have the worst bone density.


[01:17:56] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah, that may be true, but I think there’s a difference that needs to be made also between pasteurized and unpasteurized. I mean they’re basically different foods. I think most of us grew up eating pasteurized dairy, and that’s not going to do much for you. Genetics plays a part in this, of course. You have some African tribes. All they eat is meat and blood and their cholesterol is 120. Do you know what I mean? There are genetic components to this environment. They grew up doing this. This is how their body evolved. This was their evolution, and so it works.


[01:18:40] Ashley James: They have great vitamin D levels.


[01:18:43] Dr. Laura Kelly: And they have great vitamin D levels.


[01:18:46] Ashley James: Okay. So vitamin D, you’re saying, is the biggest thing.


[01:18:51] Dr. Laura Kelly: Well it was. It is in Scandinavia. The point actually that I really should make is it’s just deficiency. It’s really a deficiency issue. That’s clear in the US. I remember, when I first started thinking and studying medicine, I was like it’s not possible. How is it possible that we’re deficient in the US? We’re the land of opulence. We can’t be deficient, but it’s very clear that the majority of us are nutritionally deficient, which is bizarre but true.


[01:19:23] Ashley James: Well the food is void of nutrients.


[01:19:27] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. There is that, and the dietary practices aren’t ideal in terms of keeping the system regulated and healthy. But that isn’t something that you know. It’s not something that you learn from your doctor, and your doctor never tells you that that’s something that’s important. It wasn’t something that was thought about for a long time.


[01:19:52] Ashley James: One of my mentors is Dr. Joel Wallach. I’ve had him on the show. He, interesting background, became a Naturopathic physician, but first, he did pathology, was a research scientist, was a veterinarian, and also had a degree in soil agriculture. He studied soil. He actually discovered what was the cause of Keshawn disease in China, and also certain groups of—what are they called in the United States in Pennsylvania?


[01:20:31] Dr. Laura Kelly: Amish.


[01:20:32] Ashley James: Amish, that’s right. The Amish were having high rates of the same sort of disease-like state, and he came in. Because they only eat what they grow, he studied their soil and determined the soil was completely void of certain nutrients like selenium. It was causing miscarriages and causing an alarmingly high rate of muscular dystrophy in this particular area of Pennsylvania because they’re eating the food they grow, and their soil is devoid of selenium. And selenium is needed in utero to prevent certain birth defects like muscular dystrophy, which he discovered.

We usually don’t eat all of our food from the same soil. You look at your grapes, they’re from Chile. You look at your pears and they’re from Thailand. We’re eating food from around the world, especially if we’re not conscious of eating more locally for fresher foods. But just because Brazil nuts, are grown in any soil, that doesn’t mean they’re chock full of selenium because I’ve often brought this up, like oh, we need selenium. And then someone says, oh, I eat six brazil nuts a day. Brazil nuts can grow hydroponically.

Anything can grow in almost minerally void water basically as long as it has NPK and some form of even artificial sunlight. So the fact that you’re eating broccoli, we should absolutely eat plants. But it doesn’t mean there’s enough calcium in that food or enough iron in that spinach. How do you go about combating this? Let’s say someone actually does eat healthily. They’re eating half their plate is full of vegetables, a variety of colors, and they’re all they’re always eating organic. How do you ensure that they’re getting all of their co-factors? Do you do blood testing? Do you look at their symptoms? Do you do the genetics? How do you go about it?


[01:22:31] Dr. Laura Kelly: All of it. This is a long-term prospect because you’re not coming to see me because I will fix your toe if it hurts. I mean, don’t get me wrong—or your knee or whatever. I can do that. But generally speaking, when people are coming to me, they’re coming to me because they’re saying, okay, maybe I have a bone density issue. Or maybe I have another chronic condition, but I’m interested in—I’m getting older maybe and I want to now be healthy for the rest of my life.

What I do is I look at all of that stuff, and I say let’s build the foundation up. So let’s get the information and then we have it. But let’s also say that we know that we’re not running every trace mineral that your body needs for all that cell communication. We’re not running all of that. We know that we need all of it. We know that it’s devoid in the diet, so let’s choose some really base supplements that we’re going to take regularly. And then on top of that, we’ll figure out what your deficiencies are. If you’re missing vitamin C, we’ll supplement with that.

But there is some really base supplementation that we need, just because of where we live, or just because of the world is the way it is. And that is amino acids and trace minerals. We need these things so much. If we eat only muscle meat, which we eat in the west and we don’t eat the connective tissue, we’re missing part of the amino acid profile completely. These are things that I find let’s just do it. Let’s just get these supplements going, and then you have the basis of everything you need. The nucleic acids, you need these things in order to do anything. Let’s blanket supplement these base things—at least for a while—and then figure out what your additional deficiencies are on top of it. That’s how I work. But the trace mineral supplementation, I don’t know if there’s anything more important than that.


[01:24:41] Ashley James: Absolutely.


[01:24:43] Dr. Laura Kelly: Like you’re saying, they’re the co-factors required for all cell communication, the things that are happening inside of the cell, the communication of the DNA, the RNA, and the building of the proteins themselves. All of these things require all of these co-factors. So let’s just put them all in there and say let’s give it all it needs and then work on the problems once it’s got all the fuel.


[01:25:07] Ashley James: Absolutely. Nine years ago—it’s actually coming up on 10 years, I can’t believe that. Next month it’ll be 10 years. I was incredibly sick. I had a lot of health issues and chronic adrenal fatigue was one of them. I got on Dr. Wallach’s protocol. The first thing I did was get on his liquid trace minerals. Within the same day that I took them, my constant gnawing hunger went away. I had out of control blood sugar, and I was type 2 diabetic as well, but the constant gnawing hunger that I was constantly yo-yoing. Every 45 minutes I was hungry. Nothing could satiate it. Within my first shot, I took an ounce of it, within minutes the hunger went away. It was really interesting. Within five days of being on it, I woke up early in the morning full of energy, and it was like a light bulb went on in my body.

That was really what had me go, oh my gosh, I have to tell my friends about this. And then I did, and I have a friend who reversed her lifelong skin problem. I have another friend that immediately stopped five months of kidney stones—stopped them—and he hasn’t had them since. My friend hasn’t had her skin problem since. That’s what led me down this path of wanting to study with Naturopaths, become a health coach, and start the podcast.

So trace minerals are what started it for me. Now, not all trace minerals are created equal. There’s buyer beware out there. I can say that is where I recommend getting them from. I’m sure you have your own line that you recommend when people work with you as well. I just want to put out there, I don’t recommend going to Amazon, just typing in trace minerals, and getting whatever. There’s so much buyer beware out there, but get it from a reputable source. Either get it from Dr. Kelly or get it from, I would say. But I think everyone should be on a trace mineral supplement. It makes such a huge difference. I totally agree with you.


[01:27:17] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah, definitely. This is another coming back to the theme, which we’ve been in a while is the natural patterns that are there. We have ratios and balances of trace minerals. We don’t have an equal amount of all of them, right? We have different ratios, and it’s the same ratio that’s in the ocean. And it’s the same ratio that’s in shilajit or Himalayan salt. The patterns of mineral balance are replicated throughout the natural world. So finding sources that replicate that natural balance is what you want to find because then you’ll be taking things in the right balance for your natural body.


[01:28:10] Ashley James: So you had mentioned that you came up with a list of all the things that the cultures around the world with the lowest rate of osteoporosis, the highest bone density, and the lowest rate of fracture. That they have in common that helps the body to properly lay down calcium in the right places, not in the wrong places, and you told your mom to pick three. What were the three things that she picked?


[01:28:37] Dr. Laura Kelly: Let me just differentiate for a minute between bone density and fracture because they actually aren’t the same metric. This is relevant because of what I found. The Japanese, on the traditional diet, had very low rates of fracture compared to everybody else. But, if you scan their bones, they’re necessarily not dense, but they’re quite small, can be thin, and could even fall into osteopenia or osteoporosis, but they don’t fracture.

This was a moment of saying, well wait a minute. So there are two separate metrics here and one of them is the density, which is what we read. But the other metric is actually flexibility because if you look at the way the bone is structured, you have the collagen that gets laid down. It doesn’t get laid down in a regular regulated fashion. It’s not regimented like a line a line a line a line a line of collagen. It’s laid down in a completely random fashion, and it creates a matrix, but a really random matrix. And the reason it does this is because you can imagine that if the collagen were laid down in straight lines, the bone would be very strong from one direction and completely not strong from another direction.

So the randomness of the laying down of the collagen strands is completely random so that it can absorb a hit from any angle. This concept of flexibility is something that we don’t look at in the west in terms of diagnosis or understanding bone health. We look at density, and as you know from the drugs, you can densify your bones. But then, you can also suffer what’s called a bisphosphonate fracture, which is the result of taking the bone densifying drugs, and then the bones just randomly fracture standing on the subway, for example. That was the first one that went to the CDC.

I think some woman was standing on the subway, and her femur just shattered. It was because the bone density drugs will support your system in laying down bone, but if it’s already been laying down subpar bone or bad quality bone, all it’s going to do is assist your body in laying down low-quality bone. You may get a denser reading, but the quality of the bone isn’t good, and so you end up with a fracture.

So just looking at bone density is a mistake, and trying to figure out a way to read something like flexibility would be a better approach, in my opinion. Because if I had to choose between a dense bone and a flexible bone, I would take a small flexible bone any day because it’s going to withstand a lot.

Photo by Polina Tankilevitch from Pexels


[01:31:34] Ashley James: And not fracture


[01:31:35] Dr. Laura Kelly: And not fracture because it’ll be able to take a hit. Considering that concept, I was looking at the Japanese diet and looking at what in their diet is allowing them to not have particularly dense bones but to have flexible bones because that’s why they’re not fracturing. And that turns out to be K2. That’s in the traditional diet and has always been in the traditional diet. Of course, the presence of magnesium is required for activation as well. So it’s the nutrient co-factors. It’s always coming down to those. It’s always going to come down to those.

So it’s making sure that all those nutrient co-factors are there in the right place, at the right time to make sure that the system and the mechanisms work. That was the top choice of my mother. She’s like okay, well this makes a lot of sense to me. So she started supplementing with K2. We looked at the research out of Japan. They’re researching it at very high doses, multiple, multiple, multiple thousands of times what our body would normally use. And there didn’t seem to be any downside.

So we just took a hard-hitting approach for about three months, and I just said, “Okay, mom we’re going to hit your body so that your body knows what we’re doing.” I don’t have any scientific basis for this but I feel like the body wants, like we were talking about before, to be well. It wants its mechanisms to work. It wants to be in homeostasis. I also think that it listens to us, right? Again, it’s the information we’re putting in. What information are we putting in with our minds? What information are we putting in with what we eat?

So I said, “Mom, we’re going to hit it hard so your body knows what we’re doing, and it has no uncertain terms that we are building your bone and we are making sure that the calcium is going in the right place.” So we spent three months of what I would call therapeutic doses of exactly what we talked about—K2, trace minerals, amino acids. These are her choices, and I agree with them completely. We said let’s start there, we started there, then ran her tests, figured out what else she was missing, and filled it in. She’s changed her diet completely. It took about two years for her to really shift her diet into what she actually needed to be eating.


[01:34:02] Ashley James: Which is?


[01:34:04] Dr. Laura Kelly: For her, again, it’s personal. For her, she ended up needing a lot of calcium from plants because she needed a lot of calcium. She wasn’t actually eating the calcium in her regular diet.


[01:34:20] Ashley James: Isn’t there also vitamin K in leafy greens?


[01:34:23] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yup, there is. And that can turn into K2 sometimes, it depends. K2 is one of the things I absolutely recommend supplementing with if you have bone density issues.


[01:34:35] Ashley James: What form of K2?


[01:34:38] Dr. Laura Kelly: Ideally, of course, from natto, but it’s a pretty hard thing to put into your diet because it’s pretty stinky and tastes pretty bad.


[01:34:48] Ashley James: Explain what that is for those who don’t know.


[01:34:50] Dr. Laura Kelly: It’s a fermented soybean in a particular fashion.


[01:34:53] Ashley James: Yum. Sounds delicious.


[01:34:57] Dr. Laura Kelly: It’s sort of like when you—I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Asia but if you bury shrimp in the ground for six months and then you pull it up and make a paste out of it, it’s got a similar kind of flavor to that kind of shrimp paste. It’s very rich, let’s say.


[01:35:12] Ashley James: So fermented natto?


[01:35:17] Dr. Laura Kelly: Natto.


[01:35:18] Ashley James: Natto, thank you. Where would one source that, or can you make it yourself?


[01:35:25] Dr. Laura Kelly: You can make it. It’s a process of fermenting beans, and it’s stinky. It’s a hard thing to do. You can do it. You can find it occasionally in some co-ops. I’ve seen it. And you can also buy powder. That’s another way to go is just to buy the powder. It’s not as stinky, and it actually tastes sort of caramel. So it’s kind of good.


[01:35:50] Ashley James: How did your mom source it? How did she eat it?


[01:35:55] Dr. Laura Kelly: She actually started with natto and then was like, “I don’t know if I can do this for too long.” So we went to supplements. We went to the bacterial fermented supplements. They worked. Everything worked well for her.


[01:36:12] Ashley James: I’ve heard natto’s kind of a miracle food. If someone wanted to eat natto, so it’s a paste, how much would they want to take? How would they cook with it? Do they turn it into tea or soup?


[01:36:26] Dr. Laura Kelly: No, maybe it comes in a paste, but the traditional format is like a fermented bean porridge kind of breakfast thing.


[01:36:36] Ashley James: Oh, okay.


[01:36:37] Dr. Laura Kelly: So you just ferment the beans. It creates this really mucousy, mucilaginous-like gel around it.


[01:36:45] Ashley James: That’s what I want for breakfast.


[01:36:47] Dr. Laura Kelly: Very appetizing. But some people get used to it, and then they love it. It’s one of those things where when you break through the barrier you’re like how could I live without it?


[01:36:56] Ashley James: Can you cook it, or does heating it deteriorate the vitamin K?


[01:37:02] Dr. Laura Kelly: I think heating it too high will kill the bacteria.


[01:37:06] Ashley James: Okay. So I could probably look up recipes. I’m thinking make congee with it, but just add it at the end so it’s not too hot.


[01:37:16] Dr. Laura Kelly: Maybe. The Japanese tend to eat it, I believe, in just a very traditional way, this is how we eat it.


[01:37:24] Ashley James: Just like a cold soup?


[01:37:26] Dr. Laura Kelly: Like a breakfast-ish.


[01:37:27] Ashley James: Like a porridge?


[01:37:28] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah, that kind of thing.


[01:37:29] Ashley James: Okay.


[01:37:32] Dr. Laura Kelly: I’m sorry. I don’t know about any other recipes. I think it’s so specific a flavor that it’s hard to—


[01:37:38] Ashley James: It’s kind of like just get it down.


[01:37:40] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah.


[01:37:40] Ashley James: It’s so funny. My mom worked with these people from Asia who owned this company for many years. Worked with them, and had a great relationship. We had a cottage. I’m from Canada, and in Canada, especially Ontario, many people have a cottage. It’s like a second home but like out in nature. We kept inviting them to come stay with us for the weekend and they wouldn’t, and my mom said it was because they were afraid of eating the food we ate. The idea of, first of all, not eating rice at every meal was weird. But we were going to serve them eggs and toast and they’re like, no, thanks. We’d rather stay home. At an early age, that opened me up to this idea that there are certain people in the world that find our food repulsive.


[01:38:34] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah, absolutely.


[01:38:35] Ashley James: Especially if our body needs nutrition, let’s look for those cultures that eat food to prevent disease, and let’s try to open up our repertoire, our palette to include what they do medicinally, and just see what happens. I think especially, if we could get our kids to eat it, they might be able to grow up eating it. I’m going to see if I can find it at our co-op or have our co-op order it, and I’m going to try it for myself. I have never had it.


[01:39:12] Dr. Laura Kelly: Can you shoot yourself on video doing that so we can all watch?


[01:39:15] Ashley James: I will absolutely do that in the Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group. I will go live, and I will eat natto for the first time. When I was a kid I’d eat anything, like anything. There was nothing I wouldn’t eat and my dad loved that. So he’d take me out to really weird Asian restaurants and feed me the really weird stuff. I’m just never a picky eater. That wasn’t my problem. Anyway, this will be fun. I will love eating natto.

Okay. So vitamin K2 is incredibly important. Getting it from leafy greens, especially since you’re also going to get some co-factors like calcium is very important. What other things are just generally great ideas to incorporate into our diet?


[01:40:08] Dr. Laura Kelly: Generally great ideas, again, it just depends. This is the process of looking at what you have in your body, what you don’t have, and looking at your genetics and saying what’s actually functioning here? It really is the case that in terms of nutrition, everybody’s different. What do you process? I don’t know. What do you not process? I don’t know. Again, the standard dose of a nutrient is not correct either because I need 10,000 units a day of vitamin D, and you may need none because you’re in the sun for 10 minutes.

There are general recommendations, which are all good, like eat most plants. Everybody needs to eat a lot of plants. Keeping things as whole source as possible. The basic things that we all know for the reasons of the complexity that I was speaking about earlier and the dynamics of the formula—the herbal formula for malaria. That same concept applies to food, and the complexity of the natural sources means that we’re going to get the enzymes that we need in order to digest the things that are there. So staying close to whole sources is always a good idea. But, again, finding out what you need is actually not a bad idea.


[01:41:43] Ashley James: Yes, absolutely. What about water? Obviously, dehydration affects everything in a negative way, but what about the quality of water like avoiding sodium fluoride, which I’ve heard the body gets confused with this kind of fluoride in the water and it ends up harming the bone system but also the skull system. Also, it does things to the pituitary gland and to the thyroid. So what about chemicals in tap water?


[01:42:21] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yes. This is the problem with the world that we have created. It’s dangerous. We’ve created a dangerous world. It’s a problem. Filtering the water is probably not good enough. These are the difficulties of it. I think that there are some small water filter producers who make filters that actually do a good enough job for you to filter the tap water. So investigating those and figuring out what’s actually going to work if you’re going to drink tap water. Finding clean sources, testing your water is something I tell people to do just so you know what you’re dealing with. All of this is so important, and this is coming back to the information that we’re giving the system and saying what’s the information I’m putting in?

With the food production, who knows what information we’re putting in when we’re eating processed food. I don’t know what that information is. The body doesn’t even know what that information is, and what’s in the water? Every single substance that’s in that water is going to say something to your body. What’s it saying? So these things, even though they seem inconsequential, it’s really important to understand and to know what are you putting in.

Looking at your water, looking at your food sources, testing yourself, giving yourself that strong solid foundation because even if you are putting in questionable information, if you’ve got all those trace minerals present, your immune system is going to work well and you’re going to be able to defend yourself against the dangerous water that you’ve just drank. This is the complex web of self-care that we all find ourselves in, given the fact that the system itself doesn’t take care of this stuff for us. That’s why we’re here speaking about it, and that’s why it’s so wonderful that you’re bringing all of this to the forefront.


[01:44:31] Ashley James: Love it. Thank you so much for coming and sharing this information. I totally agree with you. We need to look at the world we’ve created and looked at the chemicals. For example, the pesticides and the chemicals that we’re spraying on our “conventionally grown food.” I think that’s hilarious because to our grandparents, to our great-grandparents, or to our great-great-grandparents, conventionally grown food was organic. We now consider organic. Although there are over 2000 chemicals that have been approved under the certification of organic. So even then it’s questionable. But get organic, get local as much as possible. Work with biodynamic farms as close to farms as you can. Luckily, I live in a state where I can actually go to a farm and actually get my food from the farm.

So if you can do that, if you can figure out how to do that, do it. If you can source some food boxes that are coming directly from farms, that’s great. Organic as much as possible. These chemicals, a lot of them are chelators. So they bind to heavy metals, they bind to even minerals and wash them away from the soil. If we consume them like glyphosate, they will release heavy metals into our kidneys and brain. What we think is safe when we go to eat an apple or go to eat some corn. What we think is safe or even healthy food.

A conventionally grown apple, they’ve had it tested as up to 50 different chemicals. These are man-made chemicals the body doesn’t know what to do with. The liver gets clogged up. These chemicals are endocrine disruptors. They harm the harmony in the body. You’re teaching us how to bring the body back into harmony, back into balance, and support the body’s ability to be strong and heal itself. One of those things is removing what is in our way as much as possible.


[01:46:42] Dr. Laura Kelly: The insults. This is coming back to—you just mentioned the liver. This is just to be clear, your liver gets clogged up because it’s trying to detoxify all of these things. That’s implying that everybody’s liver naturally functions perfectly anyway, which just simply isn’t even the case. I’ve never seen a genetic run where every CYP enzyme, every CYP genetic is perfect. There are polymorphisms all over the place in liver function. So you have CYP pathways in the liver that detoxify all different sorts of substances. There isn’t one pathway for all substances. There are different pathways for different substances, and each of those pathways has different genetics.

Every time you’re dealing with genetics, which is everywhere, you have the opportunity for things to be not perfect, right? You have a polymorphism, which is sort of a mutation but not quite a mutation. In genetics, you call it a polymorphism in the smaller subset like this. So you have the opportunity for polymorphisms, which interfere with liver detoxification pathways, and everybody has those. I’ve never seen one without.

Not only are you taking in the 50 chemicals that are in the water that went in to grow the organic apple. Because even if it’s organic, if they water it with water that’s filled with garbage, how much of the apple is water? Most of it. You’re going to eat that apple and you already have impaired liver detoxification because most of us do anyway. Each liver detoxification pathway itself has separate combinations of nutrient co-factors that are required including amino acids for phase detoxification.

If you’re missing any of those, so you have an insult that you’ve taken into your body, you’re missing some nutrients either because you don’t need it or because of your genetic component, then your liver detoxification is impaired with polymorphisms in your genes for detoxification so it’s impaired. So you’ve got three places already. You’ve just eaten an organic apple, but you have three places where you could potentially run into huge amounts of trouble. It’s crazy. That’s crazy.

That’s the truth of this pattern and this system is that it’s that complicated. And that’s in a healthy person. That’s somebody who’s me or you who’s walking around feeling good, feeling great, and having a wonderful life. That’s me. I don’t have great liver detoxification. I can eat that apple with those 50 insults and be causing myself a problem down the line.

Not to fear monger, certainly not, but just to say that all of this is important. And when you’re thinking about medicine on a fundamental level, medicine for the human body, these are things that are really important to think about, and all of them are important. It’s not like just a little bit of it’s important. All of it is important.


[01:49:50] Ashley James: And if it’s too overwhelming to think about, find a practitioner like Dr. Kelly who does telemedicine. Or find a health coach like myself. Find someone to work with because sometimes we just get to a point where we just need to hand our bodies over to someone. And that’s often where we go to an MD, then we’re given drugs. Drugs are great for certain things, not great for others. It shouldn’t be a tool we use 100% of the time. We’ve already discussed that, right?

One of the Naturopaths that I mentored with who is the dean of Bastyr Naturopathic College, and she’s practiced for over 30 years. She’s delivered over 1000 babies. She’s has a wonderful, wonderful practice working with women. She says sometimes she has a doctor-patient relationship where the patient is handing themselves over to her, and they’re saying, just take my blood, do labs on me, and just tell me what to do. They don’t want to think. It’s too overwhelming. They just want to be told what to do, and they’ll go home and do it.

And then there are other times where she doesn’t have a doctor-patient relationship. She has a teacher-mentor kind of relationship with a client, and she’ll call them her client. They’re someone who wants to come in, and often, like our listeners, they want to be educated. They want to think for themselves. They want to be given options. They want to have a teacher teach them. A doctor can be a teacher because the root word is doceri, which means teacher. So they want a teacher relationship, a mentor, and a coach, not someone just taking their blood and telling them what to do. They want to actually think for themselves.

So some people are just at the point where they’re so overwhelmed and they’re so sick, just please, do my labs and tell me what to do. You can provide that. And then for those who want to learn more, get the book and you can also have that relationship with them. It’s really important that we understand that distinction. That we could ask our doctor—be it Naturopath, osteopath, chiropractor, or a doctor of oriental medicine—to be our teachers, give us options, show us studies, and let us think for ourselves.

If we are at the point in our life where we want to be educated, we want to navigate this world, think deeper, and spend time on this, but if we don’t have the energy to, we can hand our body over. We just have to make sure we hand our body over to the person who’s going to guide us to the outcome of optimal health.


[01:52:38] Dr. Laura Kelly: Right, absolutely. I think that’s the reason why me and all of your other guests write books. It’s like we want people to embrace, and it’s going back to what I was saying in the beginning. There’s a concept of okay, medicine is for when I’m sick. Or there’s a concept that I learned, which is medicine is part of life. Taking care of yourself, self-care is part of life. When you look at it that way and when it becomes part of your life that way, it gets very rich, of course, and you explore a lot of things conceptually. You also really learn to care for yourself this way.

Writing books for people and sharing this information is really just saying, here, step into this beautifully rich world of self-care. Here, let us help you. Let us guide you with this. That’s why I write books because I want people to be able to, even if you are in a crisis point, you’re going to come out of that crisis point. When you come out of that crisis point, you can’t go back to the way you were that got you to the crisis point. So you have to then step into this world of where self-care becomes fun, ritual, or whatever it is that works for you.

So providing information for people in this way. Again, to make medicine is a hard word to use to make medicine part of your life. It sounds a little cold, but I think you understand what I mean. It’s like taking care of yourself on a daily basis with the food, with the air, with the water, with the thoughts, and with the process of thinking. All of these things, on a daily basis, thinking about them as self-care, from a perspective of self-care, enables you to live a healthy and holistic life because your body isn’t under the stresses of the disintegration of the different parts and the different pieces. Okay, wait a minute, I have to do this, here, this, and this, and this. The mechanization that comes in the thinking.

Again, providing this sort of breadth of movement of medicine self-care to the world is something that I really want to do and would like to keep doing. This is a driver for me. I think, again, for many of your guests and many of the doctors working in this space.


[01:55:19] Ashley James: What if we put a new filter on, and every choice became is this medicine for me? Hugging this person—I’m hugging my friend. I’m seeing my friend. I’m going to give him a hug. Is that medicine for me? Or staying up really late watching Netflix, is that really medicine for me? Is that medicinal?


[01:55:38] Dr. Laura Kelly: It can be. It can be.


[01:55:39] Ashley James: There are times when it can be, but I like to use that as an example because I stay up till 2:00 AM in the morning watching Netflix and then having to get up early the next day. You’re starving yourself of time. But having an evening where you’re watching something that makes you laugh is medicine, versus excessively watching television and staying sedentary is not medicine.


[01:56:02] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah.


[01:56:03] Ashley James: Looking at all the activities in your life, is this medicine? Is it spiritual medicine? Is it energetic medicine? Is it emotional-mental medicine? Is it physical medicine? And is there a better choice? Okay, watching TV for 10 hours. Okay, this isn’t medicinal for me, but what would be? Going for a walk in nature.


[01:56:28] Dr. Laura Kelly: Well wait, wait. I will differ with you a little bit about that. I would say that it’s really, again, about asking yourself and looking inward for the answer to that question. Because it may be that you just graduated from college, you just wrote a book, and whatever the situation is—that was mine. Watching TV for 10 hours straight is exactly what you need. You’re the only one that knows that. You’re the one that knows inside if this is right or if this is wrong. I don’t think that you can say one thing or another is right or wrong. It all has to do with context, but the most important thing is it has to do with how you feel about it? If you feel like you’re watching tv or 10 hours and it’s not right, then it’s not right.


[01:57:18] Ashley James: Well, if you feel like stiff, achy, upset, and irritable, and the media you were watching was something that ends up making you physically angry or tense, it wasn’t medicinal. But if you’re watching something that makes you happy, you’re laughing, and you’re resting, or maybe you take a break and read a book, but you want to just chill on the couch for the day and that’s what you need, and you feel good. I think we have to check-in. Like you said, check in with that voice inside you, and check-in with your body. Every behavior, every choice could be medicinal.


[01:57:56] Dr. Laura Kelly: Exactly.


[01:57:58] Ashley James: And that’s a wonderful thing to focus on. In your book, do you also talk about exercise? There’s a lot of confusion around exercise and healthy bones. Should it be weight-bearing? Should it be cardio? Should it be stretching? Do you talk about what kind of what are the best exercises for healthy flexible bones?


[01:58:21] Dr. Laura Kelly: Yeah. I don’t go deeply into exercise, but there are a couple of things I can mention. One of them is in the presence of an estrogenic compound—either a phytoestrogen or an endogenous estrogen—the bone has more of a response to exercise. So this would be a situation where if you do supplement with hormones, you’re going to be well placed to exercise. And if you don’t, you may want to consider phytoestrogen as well. If you don’t eat a lot of plants, then that’s going to increase the efficiency or the efficacy of the exercise that you do.

But there is a certain amount of piezoelectric force that has to happen on the bone for it to trigger the brain to build bone. The osteogenic force is a particular force. Weight-bearing exercise, yes. Anything that’s going to put that type of pressure on the bone because what happens in the system is that the bone tells the brain, hey, we have pressure on us. We need to be strong. That’s what happens. When you’re putting pressure on the bone, if you’re jumping, if you’re dancing, running, or anything that’s putting pressure tells the brain we need to be strong. And if you just sit around, it tells the brain we don’t need to be strong.

So it’s really that communication happens, and it’s really that simple. So putting that pressure on is something that you have to do for your whole life, for everybody, regardless of what issues you have. We all need to keep our system moving, and we all need our brains to think that we want to use our bodies because if the brain thinks we’re not using our bodies, it’s going to stop building them. So we all need to move and take care of ourselves in that regard. But specifically for bone, you want a force that’s going to put pressure on the bone.

If you’ve crossed the point into more severe osteoporosis, then you may run into trouble because that kind of pressure and force you actually can’t do because you may fracture. That point you have to pull back, do the supplementation, and do the nutrition base in order to build up some bone strength before you start that kind of forceful exercise.

And then there’s also a company called OsteoStrong, which produces machines that create the amount of force needed to put pressure on the bones without you having to actually create the force yourself. And theoretically, this seems to work. I haven’t seen enough of their science to fully say this is amazing, but theoretically, it’s correct. There is a certain amount of pressure that needs to happen on the bone to trigger osteogenesis, and these machines appear to do that.


[02:01:29] Ashley James: Very cool. That’s exciting. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. All the links that Dr. Kelly does are going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at is your website. We’re going to also have the link to your book, which is The Healthy Bones. I have already bought your book for myself and also for my mother-in-law. I’m sure I’ll think of a few other people I need to buy your book for.

You’re giving away your book to a lucky listener. Listeners can go to the Learn True Health Facebook group, and this discussion will continue there. We’ll create a post, and then we’ll pick a lucky listener that will win a copy of your book, which is exciting. I’ve invited Dr. Kelly to come to join the Facebook group so we can continue the discussion there, which is great. We have over 4000 listeners in the group. We have a ton of listeners, so I’m always surprised.

It’s funny because I’ll get emails or Facebook messages from listeners saying, “I’ve been a listener for over a year and I just joined the Facebook group.” I’m like, “What are you waiting for guys? Come on. Join the Facebook group. It’s a great community. It’s free. Come join us. We’re all here to support each other. So come join the Learn True Health Facebook group. And then also, Dr. Kelly, you have a Facebook group for readers of your book as well. Tell us about it.


[02:02:55] Dr. Laura Kelly: That’s right. My mother is the moderator, and she’s very, very good at keeping the group really dynamic and really motivated. It’s an amazing group of people. Everybody is probably like yours. Everybody just supports each other. They share their successes. They share recipes. They share trials, the difficulties that they’re having in there. It’s a really beautiful group of people, and they’re really there to help each other densify their bones and not be sick.


[02:03:25] Ashley James: And have flexible bones.


[02:03:27] Dr. Laura Kelly: And have flexible, exactly.


[02:03:28] Ashley James: Stronger bones. I love it. And then as a side effect, the body just gets healthier. The cardiologist who had such amazing insight to tell you to write a book. The cardiologist noticed that the calcification was leaving your mom. How is your mom’s heart health now having focused on bone health?


[02:03:49] Dr. Laura Kelly: It continues to be fantastic in terms of that sort of thing. There are no problems.


[02:03:58] Ashley James: I love it. I love it. That’s so great.


[02:04:01] Dr. Laura Kelly: I think unchecked, there may have been.


[02:04:05] Ashley James: Yes, we have to make sure that we take the blinders off and really not leave these very important things unchecked in our life. Do you have any stories of success you’d like to share?


[02:04:18] Dr. Laura Kelly: In terms of bones?


[02:04:21] Ashley James: Yeah, and well in terms of your book. In terms of patients or clients, you’ve worked with. In terms of the Facebook group. Just off the top of your head, do you have any stories of success that people have had because of the work you do?


[02:04:33] Dr. Laura Kelly: Sure, sure. You can go on that Facebook page and see people reporting, oh my God. I got my DEXA scan. I can’t believe it. I’ve gone from osteoporosis to osteopenia. It happens quite regularly, actually, which is amazing and wonderful. I’m crying every time it happens. But in terms of my own patient population, I had someone come to me who was 59 and her doctor had said, “Look, you can’t exercise anymore. I know you love tennis. You can’t play it anymore because you’re going to break your bones.” She said, “I’m terrible. This is killing me. I’m so unhappy about this.” And I said, “Okay, well let’s see what we can do.”

She’s very small. She’s very thin boned and so there wasn’t a lot of room. We started working together, and I said, “This is going to be a long process. Don’t expect instant results. Maybe in a year and a half, maybe in two years. Maybe faster, but it’s going to be a while.” And she was very active in her own care. She was a mix between, what you said, a client, and a patient. She wanted to know what to do absolutely right away, but then she also wanted to understand.

So we worked together for almost two years, and we completely reversed her osteoporosis. She went from 3.6 to 2.4. I think it took about a year and eight months, something like that, and then she’s just been improving from there. Her doctor was like, oh, okay. Because this was in a situation where at first, she went to her internist and she said, “Well, I’m working with this person.” He was like, “Yeah, whatever. That’s not going to work.” It was the same thing as always. But the book was out, and she took him the book, and then she got her scores finally. He was like, hmm. That was the answer, hmm. It wasn’t, no. It was, hmm, okay. He now has the book, and he’s actually shared the book with other people.

It’s an educational process. In that regards an educational process. That’s the standard success that I’ve had. I’ve had a lot of patients now who’ve reversed bone density issues. She actually had a really bad accident on a Segway where she smashed her leg into one of these metal posts going at 50 miles an hour. She didn’t break anything. She said there is no way that this would have been like this without the work that we had done. That’s what her doctor said. Her doctor said, “Well the fact that you didn’t break your anything in that accident is a miracle of the work that you put in.”


[02:07:31] Ashley James: I love it. Beautiful. I love it. That’s so great. Now, what about osteoarthritis or bone spurs? Have you had success reversing or improving upon either of those?


[02:07:53] Dr. Laura Kelly: I’ve had success improving upon osteoarthritis. I haven’t actually worked with bone spurs, so I don’t know.


[02:08:01] Ashley James: This will be interesting though. I hope some people with bone spurs come out of the woodwork to do your program. I’ve had great success using Dr. Wallach’s protocol with bone spurs because if you can increase the nutrients you’re talking about, especially magnesium, the body dissolves bone spurs and puts them in the right place. That’s something really interesting. Hopefully, some people will come forward and share their experiences working with your protocol in laying down bone healthfully. Can you share any results you remember in terms of reversing osteoarthritis?


[02:08:42] Dr. Laura Kelly: I wouldn’t say reversing osteoarthritis. I would say improving function and improving the sensation of difficulty or pain. This actually has more to do with using herbs. There’s the foundation of bone health, but when you’re talking about osteoarthritis, you’re talking about wear and tear. You’re talking about joints. You’re talking about joint fluid. You’re talking about cartilage, connective tissue, and all these sorts of things. Other than bone, you have all of these other pieces that you also have to work with. You want to lay the foundation, of course, the nutrient foundation for bone health and for connective tissue health. What I do with that is I also use herbs at this point—external herb poultices.

At about 1200, there were Shaolin monks. The Shaolin monks were famous monks in China. They were martial arts. They developed martial arts, basically. They took it to a new level. So the Shaolin monks were martial artists of the highest caliber, and because they did this martial arts work all of the time, they injured themselves all the time. What they developed was trauma medicine for martial arts injury, which is the same as any sort of trauma medicine. You break your leg, you have bruises.

The formulas that were written at the time were written with titles such as the formula for hitting the back of the neck with a metal shovel. This kind of thing. It’s pretty hilarious. You have these very interesting names on these formulas, but they were very specific to different types of traumatic injuries. What I do is I take that trauma medicine and apply it to things like osteoarthritis. You have the basic bone foundation like the protocols in my book, but you also have to work with the trauma of the system and the body at that point.

One thing that’s amazing about herbs, which is not available in western medicine and I’ve done this with many people, is that when they have surgery, what you’re doing is you’ve damaged your tissue when you have surgery. There has to be a repair process. And western medicine really has nothing to offer that process. They tell you to sit still on the couch and take pain medication, right? But what we can do with herbs—because herbs have such wonderful complex properties—is we can actually start the tissue regeneration process.

What we’re talking about at that point is actually stem cell regeneration. We’re talking about providing the right information triggers to the system to actually start turning on and having a stem cell response. That’s one thing that’s possible through nutrients and herbs in a very targeted fashion. So you can do that externally, and this is where the trauma medicine is, which is you use the herbs and a combination externally on the site of osteoarthritis. What happens is the immune system factors come, whatever non-functioning cells, tissue, or damaged tissue is there gets cleared out. And then some low-level tissue regeneration starts to happen in that area.

What happens from that is sometimes, if you’re really lucky, you’ll have actually enough tissue regeneration to actually eliminate any trace of the problem. There still is osteoarthritis, technically, but you don’t have the same experience any more of it. That’s a really beautiful use of herbs and where they can fill in where western medicine can’t.


[02:12:46] Ashley James: So cool. I love it. Again, go to the right doctor. You would never get this kind of medicine from seeing a chiropractor or an MD. You got to go to the right doctor for the right problem. Have an arsenal. Have a team.


[02:13:08] Dr. Laura Kelly: Absolutely have a team of doctors.


[02:13:10] Ashley James: Okay, great. You have an OB. I’d rather go to an OB than just a regular MD for gynecological exams. We’re used to that as women. If you have a skin problem, you go to a skin doctor. Or you have a foot thing, you go to a foot doctor. Why not also have Dr. Kelly in your corner? Why not have a doctor of oriental medicine, but on top of that, have a health coach, have a naturopath, have a chiropractor, and the list goes on and on. Then you can bring your body to them and they can offer different pieces of the puzzle to bring you back in balance.

What if what you needed was that 5000-year-old herbal formula, right? That was your thing. You’re not going to get that from the other doctors. What if that was your thing, and your body does the best with that versus the other form? Never shall we use the word alternative again. There is an alternative to none. These are all valid forms of medicine. Why not have all of these in our team of doctors.

Thank you Dr. Laura Kelly for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. I would love to have you back on the show. Please come join our Facebook group. Let’s also join Dr. Kelly’s Facebook group as well, and let’s all get her book. And of course, one of you lucky listeners is going to be gifted her book. Come join the Learn True Health Facebook group. The Healthy Bones. I know it’s on Amazon, and we could also go to your website Dr. Kelly, is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?



[02:14:59] Dr. Laura Kelly: Oh, gosh. It’s probably lots of things.


[02:15:03] Ashley James: Do tell.


[02:15:05] Dr. Laura Kelly: You’ve had amazing people on your program. As you say, have a team. It’s like we’re all doing little pieces of this, and we’re all pulling apart different pieces of this. Everybody has gone into different corners and pulled apart different things. I just want to say to people who would read the book, the book itself is about meeting people where they are. It’s not about going into the biggest detail about every single piece of how to perfect the food, right?

We need to sprout the beans or high pressure cook the beans. These things are there in the book, but there isn’t a huge amount of explanation in detail in all of that that has been done by others because what I have tried to do with this book is to take people, who like my mother, who doesn’t really have that much knowledge about how to take care of yourself and are coming out of the western medical paradigm. In fact, are still in the western medical paradigm where maybe nutrition may be important but I don’t really know.

You can’t step from western medicine all the way into a natural medicine with a snap of the fingers. We’re not built that way as humans. We need information. We need to process it. We need to investigate it. We need to make a decision about it. Most people don’t do it like that.

When I wrote the book, I was writing it to meet people where they are and say here’s a really broad spectrum of information on taking care of yourself. Here’s a way for you to start to understand that you can take care of yourself, and that you don’t have to be afraid of your diagnosis whatever it is. That you can take care of yourself and improve yourself with or without assistance from a practitioner. Hopefully, with a team, but even if it’s just you alone, you have enough ability, and your body has enough innate wisdom so that you can actually care for yourself.

That was the point of the book, and I wanted to make that clear because again, there’s such a wealth of information from all of the people who you’ve spoken with. Again, this is another piece of that puzzle of creating this sort of genre of self-care. I just wanted to contextualize the book for you a little bit like that.


[02:17:47] Ashley James: Beautiful. Thank you. Excellent. Please come back to the show.


[02:17:51] Dr. Laura Kelly: I’d love to. I’d love to. It’s wonderful to talk to you.


[02:17:54] Ashley James: Yes, absolutely. We’ll see each other in each other’s Facebook groups along with all the listeners.


[02:17:59] Dr. Laura Kelly: Okay, great.


[02:18:01] Ashley James: Thank you so much.


[02:18:03] Dr. Laura Kelly: Thank you. Have a great day.


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Treat Osteoporosis and Osteopenia Naturally – Dr. Laura Kelly & Ashley James – #443

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Tim James And Ashley James


  • Core four secrets
  • What cellular dehydration is
  • Where chemicals come from
  • How to eliminate chemicals from the body


Tim James is a farm boy who used to hunt and eat meat, but he is now on a raw vegan diet.  In this episode, Tim shares what made him go on a raw vegan diet, and what benefits he experienced after switching to a raw vegan diet. He also shares where we can find some of the chemicals that are getting inside our body and how to eliminate them.


Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I took a little bit of a break. Sorry for not getting an episode out in the last week. My husband and I just celebrated our 12th year anniversary. And so a friend let us come up to her cabin in the middle of the woods five hours away from Seattle in the Okanagan Valley, 45 minutes away from the nearest town or grocery store. We were completely isolated, there was no cell service, and it was beautiful and pristine.

Our son caught bugs the entire time and played in nature. We swam, we walked in the forest, and we just sat in the sun, put our feet on the ground, took long slow deep breaths, and soaked in all the nature. I definitely encourage you to get out in nature as much as you can, as often as you can. Even if you live in the city, find some clean, pesticide-free grass, and just go lie down in it. Feel the earth rotating around this crazy universe. That ability to ground yourself is so healing.

Now this episode, this interview that you’re listening to today is phenomenal. I love this man’s story, and this is going to be a great episode to share with your husband, your brother, or I just think the men that are at the point where they’re sick of being sick—this is going to be a great interview to listen to. The man that you’re about to hear was the American cowboy. Growing up in a ranch country eating nothing but beef, and he had a lot of health problems that men sweep under the rug. He just got sick of being sick, and he was able to—through his journey and his story he’s going to share, it’s a wonderful story—discover how to heal his body. And he teaches how you can do the same. How you can nourish your body in a way that everything comes back into balance.

Now as you’re listening to Tim James share his story, he also shares his website And he has invented a few supplements that are whole food supplements. I am very picky when it comes to supplements, but his green powder that you just turn into a drink is so delicious, and really, my body buzzes when I drink it. After this interview, I went and I bought some, and I am loving it. I put it in my smoothie every day. Sometimes I just put it in a glass of water and drink it. What I notice is it almost like could replace a coffee or tea. It gives me energy, but not jitters. It’s safe for children, it has a ton of raw food extracts from different superfoods, and it actually tastes good.

If you’re looking to detox, you’re looking to become more alkaline—and oh also, I tested my alkaline levels and this green juice, this powder that he sells that is extracted from raw organic superfoods—it is so delicious and it also balances pH. I did the test before and after drinking it, and I saw my pH come back into alkalinity, and I thought that was very cool. My husband is doing a fast right now, and he is drinking this stuff every day, because fasting, you definitely stir up toxins. If you’ve been listening for any length of time, you know that I’m really into supporting the body and removing heavy metals, detoxing and supporting all the organs of the body in detoxing, and becoming as healthy as possible.

If you want to give this a try, which I highly recommend you do, and basically it’s great to get for your husband if you’re helping the men in your life who are just coming into wanting to become healthier but maybe they don’t have the time or wherewithal to make a special salad and make a special vegetable smoothie and you just want to give them something really fast, that’s what Tim James created. He’s very particular, very picky about the ingredients that he puts into his stuff so that the quality is there. He formulated them for his own health—for him and for his family—so I like that he’s never going to compromise on the ingredients. It’s, and then use the coupon code LTH for 5% off. His margins are so slim when it comes to supplements as it is so he gave us a discount, and I thought that was really nice of him. So, LTH for the coupon code. Be sure to use that, which will give you just a little bit of a discount. That helps to cover shipping.

He recommends doing the Total Energy and Detox bundle. I grabbed just the green drink to start and I love it, and I’m going to definitely dive in and try his other supplements, his bundle next, the Total Energy and Detox bundle. And he also highly recommends doing his protocol while you do any form of fasting, cleansing, or detoxing because it really helps so that you don’t have any flu-like symptoms, detox symptoms, or any downtime when you’re fasting or detoxing.

Enjoy today’s interview. Make sure you go to, check out his videos, and do the coupon code LTH. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this episode with those you love. Let’s help all the people we love—the men and the women in our lives to learn true health.

Photo by NordWood Themes on Unsplash


[00:06:24] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 442. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have Tim James on. He’s the founder of Tim James of no relation. We just coincidentally have the same last name. I’m really excited for the mission that you’re on. In my own quest for health, I found that by cutting out chemicals and pesticides, my health drastically improved, and so I love what you’re doing. Also, when I’m exposed to certain chemicals I notice I really, really feel it. It’s pretty amazing how so many people are walking around with sluggish livers, full of chemicals, and not knowing that there’s a better way. There’s a way that you can just hugely improve your overall health and well-being. The well-being of our children, the well-being at any age by eliminating chemicals and toxins as much as we can from our food, our water, and our air. Tim, welcome to the show.


[00:07:41] Tim James: Ashley, thanks for having me. I’m very excited to be here and share.


[00:07:44] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now you have an amazing story, so let’s dive right in. What happened in your life? How young were you when you first started having health problems? And what happened that led you to discover that chemicals were the cause of your problems?


[00:08:03] Tim James: Well, I can take it back a little further just so people understand my background. I grew up in Eastern Oregon on a cattle and hay farm. We had Hereford cattle. Between me and my neighbors, we had horses, chickens, and ducks. It was just all their—goats and everything. I grew up hunting and fishing a lot, so meat was a huge part of my lifestyle. Played baseball at a high level, and at age 37, that’s when the wheels were really falling off for me. I had gained 38 pounds even though I still, in my mind, I thought I was an athlete, even though I had hardly any energy to get up. I’d only do it to walk the dogs. I was a financial advisor at the time getting up early, long days, lots of traveling, and high stress. And then I had skin issues on my elbows like eczema, and it would bleed and crack. I had to start wearing black shirts because the white ones would you know. I’d bleed on people’s couches on Super Bowl parties and stuff like that. It was embarrassing. And it didn’t look good.

I had this big belly, my elbows were bleeding, my knee finally got eczema too—it was cracking and bleeding. And then I had acid indigestion really bad. I was on Tums and Rolaids all the time. The doctor wanted me to go into Prilosec, I didn’t want to do that, and then finally it got really bad. I started bleeding rectally and I didn’t tell anybody about this for almost two years. I never did tell a doctor, nobody. I’m just like, hopefully, that goes away. How stupid is that, right? It was just that guy mentality like ah, it’s fine. It’ll get better. Not even a pause. Not even a pause. Just oh, I hope that goes away. Back to work because it really wasn’t a problem. I wasn’t stopped completely. I just kept going.

I’m raising the kids and I got a mortgage payment, so I’m moving. Finally, it was on vacation. We were in northern Peru right below Tumbes, which is in Ecuador, and I had to get life-flighted to get an emergency surgery in Lima, and that’s when that mask went over my face. That’s when I knew my life was out of control, but I still didn’t know what the hell to do. I didn’t know what I was doing with my health, even though I thought I was healthy. I was eating trying to do five meals a day and eating more protein. Give me a chicken teriyaki bowl and give me extra chicken. And I thought drinking my milk for my bones, the meat for my protein, and all that stuff, but I was a mess.

A friend of mine got diagnosed with chronic lymphocytic leukemia, which is a supposedly rare supposedly incurable blood cancer. He’s like dude, I can’t die. I have to live. Because our sons played together so he’s like I’m going to go to this place in Florida called the Hippocrates Health Institute. Have you heard of those people at all?


[00:10:44] Ashley James: I have not.


[00:10:45] Tim James: Okay. So they’re one of the oldest alternative health institutes in the world. And he says I want you to go with me and support me. I’m going to try to heal naturally. Well, I’m thinking this isn’t going to work. I’m going to support you. I’m like yeah, dude. I’m all in, but in the back of my mind, he’s dead. My grandma died of brain cancer, my aunt died of skin cancer. We just actually lost a guy in my baseball team that we played in the adult men’s world series in Phoenix on the super nice spring training fields. Clay died of cancer. He had stomach cancer, and he went through chemo, surgery, and all that stuff. He died 80 pounds under his weight. We had already been through that. Clay didn’t have any insurance, but he left three little boys behind at ages 6 to 17. It was terrible.

It was a whole bunch of these really strong tough men on this baseball team were all at his funeral just crying their faces off. Do you know what I’ll never forget? He came for his last baseball game. He was too proud to run out to the center-field because he couldn’t run. He’s just like, “I don’t have the energy to run back and forth to my position. I’m sure as hell not going to walk. Can I pitch? Because I can just kind of jog out to the mound.” And I’m thinking pitching’s going to take way more energy dude, whatever. He’s pitching, and around the fourth or fifth inning he comes in on the bench and he’s sitting there on my left and my buddy Jason’s on his left. Me and Jason were looking at Clay and he’s sitting there spitting up blood. Jason’s like, “Man, what the hell are you doing out here?” He’s like, “Look, dude. I love baseball. And if I’m going to go out, I’m going to go out doing what I love.” I was like, “Okay, man.” What do you say to that? Just okay, whatever you want to do.

I watched a guy my age. Now I’m starting to freak out because I’m bleeding rectally, I have all these problems. I’m looking at this guy. He’s healthier than all of us, and he’s dying of cancer. And then my buddy Charles, at age 43, gets it, and I’m freaking out, but I still don’t know what’s going on. Anyway, long story short, we fly to Hippocrates on January 1, 2011.


[00:12:40] Ashley James: This is you and Clay?


[00:12:42] Tim James: No, Clay passed away.


[00:12:43] Ashley James: Okay, so Clay passed away. When he was spitting up blood at the baseball diamond, did you have any light bulbs going off in your head? Like wow, I was bleeding rectally for years.


[00:12:56] Tim James: No, it was fear. I was just in fear mode, but I didn’t know what to do. I just still didn’t know what to do. It wasn’t until Charles said, “Hey, we got to go to this institute.” Now we’re on the plane flight there because he’s got this blood cancer, and he’s like, “Oh, Tim by the way, when we get there there’s no meat, no dairy, no salt, no sugar, and nothing’s cooked.” And I’m like, “What?” I’m literally freaked out. You have to understand, hunting and fishing were my life. Every year, I worked so hard so I could get another extra week off to hunt and fish. All my thousands of dollars of hunting and fishing equipment. Our motto was if it flies, it dies. If it’s brown, it’s down—just to give you an idea. I’m redneck, okay. Eastern Oregon farm boy. It was fun, we had a lot of fun doing that stuff, so I’m freaked out. And if it wasn’t for Charles and him having cancer, there’s no way I would have set foot into that place.

We made fun of vegetarians, and this place was like plant-based vegans. Not even eggs or dairy, which didn’t make sense because I’m like how are you going to have strong bones? Anyway, I’m freaked out but I’m like, “Look, Tim, put your stuff aside. They probably got salads. Charles has got cancer, just focus on him.” I went there with a notepad, and I’m running around trying to disprove this place, talking to all these people, and trying to gather information from my friend because I really want him to heal but I didn’t think it was possible. Well, it was amazing what happened.

They put us on purified water. They put us on these green juices. All sprouted nuts, seeds, grains, beans, broccoli sprouts, sunflower sprouts, pea sprouts, and all this stuff. Sprouts in the juice even. And what you do is you go through what’s called a healing crisis. Now the first takes about three, four, five days for most people. It’s like doing surgery without a knife, and all this stuff starts coming out of you. They teach you. The very first class is on internal awareness, and they teach you from the time you eat something or drink something—from it enters your mouth until it exits—what goes on. And they just break it down, they make it simple. I’m like, oh my God. Where’s this information? That first class, they’re trying to teach you about getting colon hydrotherapy or colonic. Have you ever heard of those?


[00:14:56] Ashley James: Mm-hmm.


[00:14:57] Tim James: And then I’m elbowing Charles going, “Hey man, you got me to come here to help you, but there’s no way I’m doing that deal.” For those of you listening that aren’t aware of that, you just sit on a tube rectally and water basically goes in and out, and they clean you out gently with water. That’s a colonic or colon hydrotherapy session. He said that most people are carrying around about 6-12 pounds of impacted fecal material and mucoid plaques lining the small and large intestine, and you want to get that stuff out. Now the record at the institute—some lady did a colon hydrotherapy session and she had she dropped 29 pounds of impacted fecal material. And I’m like what? I was the first person to sign up on that thing. I’m like I got to clean that stuff out because I got this blood deal going on, right?

They weigh me, I do the deal for an hour, I come back, and I’m 10 pounds lighter. Just like Dr. Scott said, he goes, “Tim, you got 10 pounds of crap in a 5-pound bag, and we got to clean it up.” This is even before nutrition. What you brought up even earlier was about the chemicals and the toxins, well the pathway of elimination of the digestive tract is the first place to get cleaned up because it’s the epicenter. It’s the driving engine of your life. It’s where all the nutrients flow and everything, so they taught us all that. I did that thing, I started feeling better. Day one, my acid indigestion was gone. The blood had stopped that week.


[00:16:14] Ashley James: When you say the blood you mean rectal bleeding, not the blood coming from your knees or your elbows?


[00:16:20] Tim James: No, that was still there. That was still going on. We do this. I had headaches, I had night sweats, I wasn’t feeling good, I was irritable during that first four days, and this is what they call healing crisis or doing surgery without a knife. Your body is basically changing from an acid-based organism because of the environment it was in. Everything I was eating was acid. I didn’t know meat was acid. I didn’t know coffee was acid. I didn’t think about it. I was drinking two big coffees a day. Dairy is acid, ice cream is acid, pasta is acid, and most cooked foods are acid. I was pouring acid into my body. I’d love picking apples and stuff like that and nature and vegetables, I love that stuff, but it was out of ratio, basically.

They put me on all this alkaline diet. What happens is you change the internal terrain of the body, and that’s when the harmful organisms leave. They pack their bags because harmful organisms like viruses, bacteria, mold, yeast, fungus, parasites, and cancer, they love low oxygen, highly acidic environments. And that’s the environment that I had created for them. Those little buggers were growing, proliferating, eating my food, drinking my drinks, urinating, and defecating in me and I had a build-up of them. We washed out and cleaned out my digestive tract. I started flooding my body, my cells, my blood, and my lymphatic system with all this purified water and green juices, and the body started removing all this stuff. Thank God it only lasted four or five days, and then I woke up the next day and I felt like I was 19 again.

I looked at Charles, I said, “Dude, you’re going to live. I’ve interviewed all these people around here. There’s a whole bunch of people that have already healed themselves of cancer. They’re back now, they’re bringing their friend with cancer, and they’re helping people.” I’m like, “Dude, this is the fountain of youth that we found. This is what everybody’s looking for. I feel great. Dude, how do you feel?” He’s like, “I feel awesome.” I said, “Awesome, dude. I’m going to go back. I’m going to do this whole plant-based thing with you except I’m going to keep bacon. I’ll do that.” Because I figured I couldn’t make it work without—


[00:18:16] Ashley James: So you’re going to eat a whole food plant-based diet plus bacon?


[00:18:19] Tim James: With bacon, with bacon. I was going to keep it. It was hard to give up. I read this book called The China Study by Dr. T. Colin Campbell on the plane flight back, and that changed my mind because they dissected the hearts of 300 young soldiers in their early 20s that came back from the Korean War and they found like 76.3% of them had severe onset of heart disease already in the early 20s from the standard American diet. I’m like oh my God, I have heart disease. Not only do my elbows are bleeding, I’m bleeding rectally, but I have heart disease. Nobody eats more meat than me, and it’s the animal fat that’s causing the problem. That healing crisis really woke me up to like how bad it was, and I didn’t have it as bad as some people. Some people had rashes breaking out all over their arms, their faces, over their bodies as the body was pushing and expelling out toxins, chemicals, pollutants, and harmful organisms. We saw parasites crawling out of people’s pores. One lady had a parasite crawling out of her eye.


[00:19:16] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.


[00:19:17] Tim James: Many people, when you’re doing enemas and wheatgrass implants rectally, which that’s what they do at that place, parasites will come out in your stools, not just the big long ones, but your stool can be covered with white fuzzy stuff. All these little white ones will come out, and then there are also microscopic ones that you can’t see that you have parasites in your blood and stuff. Again, it was a pretty awesome thing to get all that stuff out, and everybody on graduation day says the same thing. I feel 20 years younger. I feel 30 years younger. I’m off my medications. My elbows were hurting for 20, I can move my elbow. I can move my knee. On and on these people were just raving about how they were feeling.

So we went back home, we got serious. We implemented the lifestyle, and in two and a half years my friend Charles heals himself with this so-called incurable cancer, and he’s alive today. He got to see his son graduate high school, graduate college. He picked up the guitar, started a band. He’s living his life. He went from cancer and bankruptcy to thriving business and living his highest excitement. I just went crazy with it, and finally walked away from the financial services industry to tell more people about it.


[00:20:19] Ashley James: I love it. My husband, because he was just like you, used to say, “I eat vegans daily,” because he would eat the cow—cow’s a vegan. But he—for many years—would only eat beef every day or bacon. Bacon and beef and nothing else. And then one day he woke up two or three years ago—it’s been a few years. He woke up and he just said to me, “I’m never eating meat again. He just woke up and he became whole food plant-based overnight. Just something clicked in him. Probably after one of my interviews with Robyn Openshaw, and he heard about the frequency of meat and how it lowers the frequency in the body until we’re practically dead. Something in him just went, that’s it, I’m never eating meat again.

And within days of eating just whole food plant-based, you got to get, I never was able to get vegetables into him, and all of a sudden he’s eating only vegetables. About five days in he turns to me and he says, “If you told me that this food would taste this good I would have given up meat years ago. This tastes better. This tastes amazing.” He’s always impressed with how great vegetables can taste in comparison to meat, but our brain is hijacked by fatty foods. A great book to read is The Pleasure Trap by Dr. Goldhamer and Dr. Lisle. I’ve had Dr. Goldhamer on the show, and he explains it. That’s episode 230, so listeners can go back and check that out. 

Part of our survival mechanism is to seek out foods that are highly pleasurable in that they’re salty, sugary, and fatty because those help us gain weight and survive famines. Well now, we don’t want to gain weight to survive a famine because those foods are highly readily available. Whereas they were very hard to find and it took a lot of energy expenditure in order to secure those foods 200 years ago. But now, you don’t even have to expend any energy. You could just type in Amazon and they can deliver all those highly fatty foods to you.

Looking now, we see that 70% of Americans are obese or pre-diabetic. We’re heading very quickly in the wrong direction. Now you have mentioned The China Study. One thing that Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn talks about in Forks Over Knives—I’ve had him on the show, also a really great interview. But Caldwell Esselstyn talks about how during the Nazi occupation, one of the Norwegian countries—it was between 1939 and 1945, the Germans who were occupying the Norwegian countries. They took over all of the food supply, and they took over all of the meat. Only the Norwegians could eat potatoes, grains, and vegetables and they were not given any meat to eat. 

You’d think that heart attacks would have increased because of the stress levels of being occupied in a Nazi-occupied country, but in fact, they completely plummeted. In that population, they saw that the mortality rates for heart disease just completely fell to almost zero. And then when they were liberated and they got to eat meat again the heart attack rates went up. That to me shocked me because I always thought that stress—and stress obviously is a toxin to the body for many reasons. You’d think that stress would have somehow made the heart attacks worse, but no, just cutting out meat significantly decreased heart attacks. That really, really surprised me. Also, of course, increasing their vegetable intake and their fiber intake would then also play a role in their health.

You going to this center, coming back, what happened the first day? So the plane lands, you get home, you’ve read The China Study. You’ve interviewed a bunch of people who are on a raw whole foods diet. Your rectal bleeding has stopped. You feel like you’re 19 again. What was the first day like at home? How did you wrap your brain around making these changes now that you’re back in your old routine?


[00:25:00] Tim James: I already knew the changes were going to have to take place before I left because on Thursday before I left on Saturday, I was like oh, I don’t have a juicer at home. I don’t have all these things. I went to the store at Hippocrates Health Institute and I said, “What do I need to get this lifestyle at my house?” She’s like, “Do you have a juicer?” I’m like, “No.” I said, “Which one?” “That one.” “Okay, I’ll take it. What else do I need?” “Are you growing sprouts?” I’m like, “No, but I grew up on a farm. We had a garden. I can grow anything. I’ll figure it out.” She’s like, “Well, you need wheatgrass, sunflower, and pea sprouts to start.” I said, “Okay, I’ll take some of those.” I just ordered a bunch of stuff. I ordered like $1100 worth of stuff.

I called my wife up and I was like, “Hey, there’s a package on the way so look out for it because it’s got some stuff in there. She’s like, “How much did you spend?” I was like, “I don’t know what to say. No, I spent like $1100.” And she’s like, “What are you spending $1100 for?” I was like, “Look, I’m changing my life. Charles is going to heal cancer. We’re going to do this. I got to go.” I ordered that stuff. I got my seeds out, I started soaking my seeds. I went to the store, I started buying lots of produce—celery and cucumbers for juicing. To be honest, I didn’t know what the hell to eat for a while. I basically created these things that are now—we’re putting a recipe book together. I actually became a raw living food chef, believe it or not. From redneck cowboy type person farmer—my buddy was a cowboy. I really wasn’t, but I have a cowboy hat—a real one.

I created these little tacos. I would take a lettuce leaf, I would take hummus, and I would just put some cumin and coriander in it to get kind of that Mexican flavor. A little bit of chili powder and then mix that up. I started sprouting lentils, mung beans, and fenugreek—red, green, and French lentils. They only take two and a half days and they’re ready to eat. You can do it on your countertop in a glass jar. It’s easy. I would throw those in the hummus and mix it up, and then plop that on the lettuce, cut some sprouts, throw them on top of that or vegetables or maybe some avocado. Squeeze some lemon or lime on it, put some lots of paprika on it so it looked like meat, and then I’d eat it. I pretty much ate that for almost eight, nine months because I didn’t know what else to do, then I found another restaurant that made these living food wraps in town.

Once a week I’d go over and buy those on my way to the rotary club and eat half and eat the other half for dinner. I mixed it up a little bit. About nine months into it I’m like I need some recipes. But I was committed because I told Charles, “Look, dude, I’m going to do this with you. I will follow this protocol. I even started growing the sprouts for him too. I was growing it for me and him, and he’d come over and pick him up or I’d drop him off at his house because he was really busy. He’s reeling from a bankruptcy type thing with his businesses and trying to keep the lights on, so I did that for him trying to keep his stress down and just deliver these beautiful trays of sprouts to him. 

That’s how we started doing it, and then one of my buddies actually came over and he’s like, “Wow, what are all these plants you got grown over here?” And I said, “Oh they’re sprouts.” He’s like, “What’s that for?” I’m like, “Well, it’s part of this protocol, and sprouts are living foods. They’re like 30-50 times more nutritious than freshly picked vegetables out of your garden if you ate them on the spot.” He’s like, “Wow, that sounds pretty cool. Hey, will you grow that for me?” And I’m like, “No way, man. This takes a lot of work. Just grow it yourself, I’ll show you to do it.” He’s like, “Nah, but if you grow up for me I’ll do it.”

So he talks me into it, the next day he brings a friend over. I give the same spiel, and he wants me to grow for him. Before too long, between him and Eric, they keep sending people over, and I keep randomly getting home from work and I got to give these talks. Then finally, I told my wife it interrupted a date night. We’re getting ready to do something. This lady showed up with cancer, and I’m just like, “Sorry, I have to help her.” So I do the spiel and doing all this stuff, and before too long, we started teaching classes regularly. Living food juicing classes on Tuesday nights. Those filled up quickly. Then it was Tuesdays and Wednesdays. And then I started speaking at schools, grocery stores, and hospitals. 

I’d go to an apartment complex and speak at the little places that they have there where people can meet and gather. I just get the message out. I did this for five years, and I was still a financial advisor. I wasn’t getting paid, I was actually paying people to come over and have dinner with me. I figured out I spent about $1100 a month on food extra to feed people in these classes. Think about it, I was feeding a lot of people. We’d have anywhere from 1-13 people. Probably on average about 6-8 people per class were coming. We’re talking over 4000 people in 5 ½ years coming to my house. 

I got a lot of experience sharing this message with people. I was just so passionate about it because in a little over two years, again, my buddy healed himself with cancer. I have the first-person experience on this, right in front of my face. So he isn’t bs-ing me. It’s right there. I healed myself. Within 60 days all the weight was gone. I could feel my ribs again. The eczema was gone. I had another skin issue on my shoulder that disappeared. And eight months later, the big huge patch of eczema was completely cleaned up on my knee too. I completely healed myself, and I’ve stayed that way.

Now I’ve been able to maintain it for 10 years, and I just keep getting healthier every year, and I’m 47 today. Nobody believes me. I’ll be in conversations, and “Oh, where are your kids?” “Oh yeah, Mike, I have a sophomore at the University of Oregon and a junior at Tualatin High School.” And they’re like, “What? Wait a minute, how old are you?” I’m like those people that worked at the institute now because the people that worked there that were on that lifestyle, they looked 10, 15, 20 years younger than people their age, and it blew me away. 

I made a decision back then because they said that in seven years you can replicate completely new you. If we took every cell out of your body, put it in a catalog, categorized it, and come back in seven years—completely new you, new cells. He goes, “You have a choice.” I thought about them. I’m like, well I can either keep doing what I’m doing and probably have heart disease and cancer, who knows what’s going to happen with me. Or I could change, do what these people are doing, and build a new Tim. And seven years later there was a new Tim. I keep rebuilding new Tim all the time and finding ways to be healthier, younger, fitter, and make it simpler and easier for people so they can cut through all the minutiae online because there are so many people saying all these things that work and stuff like that, but in reality, they do a little bit but they really don’t. It’s confusing.

The problem is, the standard American diet, Ashley, is so bad that if you make any changes you’re going to see some improvement. But I’m looking for optimal performance. What really works. The cool thing is most of these things are really simple, and it really boils down to what you said earlier, which is getting the toxins out. Our main job over here is not—even though I’m considered a nutritionist now, and I don’t have a degree in it, but I’ve had tons of nutritious and dietitians come to my classes. I actually had one crying and she’d been a nutritionist for 30 years. I said, “What’s going on?” She’s like, “Everything that you said tonight resonated with me so well. It just makes common sense. Everything I’ve been telling my clients is mostly wrong. How am I going to face them?” I said, “Well, just tell them the truth and just say you’ve discovered something new and you’re going to do that. You want to help them, right?” “Yeah.” I said, “Well, go help them. Look at me, I was a mess for 37 years. I got some new information, I’m flipping the coin, and I’m going down that path 100%” So she started going down that path.


[00:32:25] Ashley James: It’s so true. We have to sometimes eat a little bit of humble pie, put our ego aside. When we find new information, we just have to open your mind so much your brain could fall out and be ready to receive new information that could help you change your life and let go of the egoic belief system that you were raised with around food. People believe that they have to eat bacon, eggs, or dairy because we’ve been taught since a very young age that those are healthy things. One thing that really surprises me is cereal, for example. I go to health food stores. We have local health foods, local co-ops here in and around Seattle, and I go to Whole Foods.

Whenever I’m in a different city I go to a health food store, but all cereal—it’s very, very hard to find a cereal that doesn’t have sugar in it. Just a whole-grain cereal, it’s very difficult to find. There are a few, but most cereals—and I’m so surprised because when I was a kid, there were more cereals that didn’t have sugar. Rice Krispies didn’t have sugar in it. There were so many cereals that you could find that didn’t have. Of course, there were sugary cereals back in the ‘80s, but I’m just noticing that even in health food stores, the second ingredient, or sometimes the first ingredient is sugar. And that blows my mind. Now, of course, I don’t buy cereal. I’m just using that as an example of how food has changed in the last 30, 40 years.

Since we were children, I think a lot of people are eating like—even on an unconscious level—how they were raised to eat. How their grandparents told them what was healthy or their parents told them what was healthy. We developed belief systems. My mom was afraid of carbohydrates. She would get very angry at me—I was a child. I remember at a restaurant I ordered the fish and the rice with the side of vegetables. I thought that was a healthy choice to make, and my mom started literally yelling at me. Everyone in the restaurant was looking because she was so angry that I ordered rice because, in her mind, rice was very unhealthy for you. Any carbohydrate was very unhealthy for you. 

I had these unconscious beliefs about food and my food choices that led me down a very unhealthy path. And then I had to re-examine why do I think this is good food or bad food? Or why do I believe I can’t live without cheese or I can’t live without eggs or dairy or I can’t live without meat? Why do I believe that? You really need to wipe the slate clean of my own belief system, and look at what is the most healing thing I can do for my body? What’s my body going to resonate with. 

So trying out the whole food plant-based diet I was shocked. I remember my first meal without meat because I had never in my entire life had a meal without meat. I’d had lots of meals with just meat and no vegetables, but I’d never had a non-meat meal because it wasn’t a meal in my mind. You had to have meat in a meal. And I remember my first meal, and at the end of it, I was shocked because I thought I was going to feel weak. I was going to feel tired. I was going to feel still hungry. I really assumed that it was the meat that filled me up and gave me energy, and it was the opposite. The more I went whole food plant-based and incorporated more complex carbohydrates from potatoes, for example, and sprouts—I love sprouting too. But the more I incorporated vegetables—both raw and cooked—I noticed I had more and more energy.

If we examine our own belief system and we are able to try on things that we said to ourselves I’d never do that, if we talked to you at 18, you would have been like no freaking way I’m going to eat that stuff that you’re eating now. We have to be willing to make these changes and then notice what happens in our bodies. Now you mentioned you spent $1100, and to a lot of people, that would be enough of a barrier to not even listen any further. I couldn’t do that. I can’t afford that. I guess this isn’t for me.

And I want to tell people that you don’t have to spend $1100 to get a juicer and get all this stuff going. I know you did Tim, you did and you probably bought like the best of the best. I’ve actually twice bought juicers that were worth hundreds of dollars for $12 at a local thrift store. You can go to your thrift stores, you can go to Facebook Marketplace, OfferUp, or even the Buy Nothing—there’s buy nothing local groups on Facebook—and seek out a juicer. It doesn’t have to be the best of the best but just get started. You could probably find someone who has an extra. I own five juicers. You could probably find someone who has an extra juicer that would be willing to lend it to you or sell it to you at a really cheap price. Don’t let money be a barrier to your health.

Same with sprouting. Sprouting is so incredibly affordable. I buy my lentils organic, of course, but in bulk, and then I just actually use a colander. I soak them for 24 hours, and then I put them in a colander, and I put them in a dark warm place. And then twice a day—in the morning and at night—I rinse them off and I shake them up. For me, I like eating them at about day four day five because I like them when they’re grown more and they’re a little less crunchy. But that’s just my personal preference. There are many ways, and I’ve only done lentil sprouts. I’d be really excited to try like the pea sprouts, the mung bean sprouts, and the other sprouts that you mentioned. That sounds delicious. Your whole thing is living foods as much as possible, we can do it on a budget for those who have a budget they need to adhere to.


[00:38:34] Tim James: Yeah, can I talk about that?


[00:38:35] Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. I want you to.


[00:38:37] Tim James: You can save money and save your life at the same time eating this way, so it doesn’t have to be expensive. Yeah, I bought a $600 juicer. I got after it, and I did it. I made the juice twice a day, and it can become expensive. I was teaching people what I learned. I went to this place, juicing twice a day, doing this, eating that, and it worked, so I brought it home, and I recreated it. Most people can’t do it in their busy schedules. First off, you can’t go cold turkey because you’re going to go through that healing crisis, and you can’t. You’re trying to raise kids, soccer practice, school, taking care of aging parents, and all the things we got going on today. People are busy, they don’t have time for a healing crisis. That’s why you have to go away to an institute like that.

People would come to my classes, I would teach them the whole thing. We had a lot of people get juicers, but the problem was only 1 out of 10 would stick with it. Within 30-60, 90 days, most of them would have the juicers underneath the cupboard and they weren’t using anymore. I was like, “Why? You saw what happened to me. You knew me.” I know thousands of people in Portland because I was in business for years, and I’m like, “You know Charles. He healed himself with cancer. Why aren’t you doing this?” “Tim, it takes too much time. It’s too much money. My husband won’t help me with it. My wife won’t help me with it. They’re not on board. I’m getting made fun,” or whatever, blah, blah, blah. It’s too much work, and I’m like man.

I’m like, what could I do to help these people? I went out and interviewed 100 people that came to a class, bought the juicer, got excited, and then stopped. They wanted something simple, and they wanted a plan. It just has to be easy. I went back to the drawing board, and right now I’d like to share my core four secrets that we teach everyone. This is the foundation for transforming your health, losing weight. getting the energy, boosting your immune system, and whatever you need to do. Is that okay if I share those?


[00:40:19] Ashley James: Absolutely.


[00:40:20] Tim James: Okay. So core’s four secrets. Core secret number one is drinking half your body weight in liquid ounces of purified water daily. And if you live in the city, then the water needs to be purified and restructured so you can actually absorb it because the high-pressure pipes in city water make the molecules stick together, and they will not go through the intestinal lining very well and you just pee it out. That’s very important. That’s it right there. And just on a side note, you can at least go to the grocery store in gallon glass jars and get single purified water for 25 to 44 cents a gallon. There’s no reason you can’t at least get some 90% purified water in your life. Okay?

Less than 5% of people are doing this. If you’re 200 pounds, that’s 100 ounces of water a day. If you’re 100 pounds, that’s 50 ounces of water a day just to maintain health. Now if you’re drinking caffeine-free teas or drinking a green juice with no sugar in it, we’re not talking apple juice, orange juice, that kind of stuff—that doesn’t count. Coffee doesn’t. Just flax seed water. Green juices with vegetable juices and purified water itself, hibiscus tea—all these counts towards your water intake. That one right there, less than 5% of the population is doing this, and we are literally sitting in a situation called cellular dehydration. This is like a national catastrophe right now that nobody knows about or even talking about.

And if 95% of us are dehydrated, when your body needs water, do you know where the first place it goes to get it? It’s the colon. It’s the colon. This is why people have—this is what we learned—6-12 pounds of impacted fecal material in that colon because your colon has been dried up over the years because you don’t drink enough water. And if your cells need water, your brain needs water, or your bones—your bones are 22% water. Whatever your body needs for a process or an organ system needs water and it doesn’t have what it needs, it goes to the colon. So the colon then can’t evacuate waste properly. It doesn’t work properly. Do you see the problem? It’s just day in and day out, it adds up and it builds up, then you get backed up, and then you get messed up. That’s what ends up happening.

So simply by changing your water intake, you can allow your colon to start working, waste to start removing better, your lymphatic system works on movement, water, and oxygen, you can start getting the garbage out through the lymphatic system better, you’ll have more intelligence, your IQ will go up if you drink more water—literally. The difference between not having enough water in your body could be the difference between finding your keys, searching around for your keys, or hunting for your keys for 10-15 minutes in the house trying to find them. That’s the difference the water plays. 

I had one lady, she implemented this at my class, eight months later I was teaching a class at a yoga studio and I saw her. I was like that lady looks familiar but I couldn’t recognize her for some reason, and then I said, “Hey, you look familiar.” She’s like, “Well, yeah. I attended one of your classes eight months ago.” And I was like, “Oh, wow. I don’t know, I thought I noticed you but you look different for some reason.” She’s like, “I hope you noticed, I’ve lost 50 pounds.” I was like, “Whoa, wow. That’s awesome.” Now everybody’s tuning in, listening, and taking notes. I was like, “What did you do to lose the 50 pounds?” She goes, “You gave me so much information that night, Tim. I just stuck with one thing—water. That’s what I heard, so I did that. So every morning now I drink water. I do half of my body weight. I dropped 50 pounds.” I’m like, “Well, that’s great. What are you doing back this time?” She goes, “I’m here to find out what’s next.” I’m like, “Okay, here it is.”

Here’s core secret number two, chew your food until liquefied. This is so important. We have two ducts in our upper mouth and four in our lower mouth that secrete the enzymes, amylase, and lipase. These break down our starches and our fats. And if you don’t chew your food really well, they’re not going to get digested, and instead of digestion and a simulation of nutrients, which is what we want, you’re going to get fermentation and gut rot. You’re going to destroy those intestinal villi, those little hair-like structures lining the intestinal tract, and you’re going to end up with a leaky gut like me. 90% of people have leaky gut at some level, which is these little tears and holes in your intestinal tract where undigested food particles and microbes get into the bloodstream. And they start wreaking havoc, causing inflammation, causing headaches, weight gain, cancer, and all these other problems. Hashimoto’s, arthritis, everything.

Chewing your food is of the utmost importance. It’s the first domino in digestion, and if you don’t chew your food well, the first domino doesn’t fall and you’re going to end up with a lifetime of gut rot, gas, bloating, and problems. This one’s big, and less than 4% of the population, that I benchmarked, is chewing their food well. And for those of you suffering from depression, by chewing your food really well and hitting those meridian points on your teeth—this is right from Dr. Gabriel Cousens, Medical Doctor, MD—you can increase your serotonin up to 500%, which is your happy juice just by chewing and stimulating those meridian points in your teeth. So it’s a huge deal.

Core secret number three is avoiding liquids with meals. People are like what? This is a tough one especially when you go to a restaurant—if you can nowadays—and they’re trying to get some water, would you like some wine, you want some tea, you want a beer, or you want some coffee. They’re always trying to upsell you that stuff. Even when I tell them half the time I don’t want water they still bring it to me. Now that you’ve worked really hard to chew your food well and get it really small so it’s easy to digest and you’ve pre-loaded it with all those enzymes if you drink purified restructured healthy water, apple juice, wine, or beer you’re going to dilute those digestive enzymes and you’re going to go from a simulation of nutrients and digestion right back to fermentation and gut rot. You’re going to go right back to where you were—problems, your gut will be jacked up. Less than 2% of the population is avoiding their liquids with meals.

We give a rule of thumb. For beginners, stop 30 minutes before you eat and wait an hour after you eat to start drinking liquids again. For those of you with stage four disease, wanting to win an Olympic gold medal, or just be your fit top best stop drinking liquids an hour before and wait two hours after you eat and then start drinking a lot of liquids again. That’s core secret number three.

And the last one is core secret number four. This one is doing some breath exercises before you eat, just for a minute. Maybe a minute or two. And it’s as simple as this—taking a big breath in through the nose, pause at the top, and then release out to the mouth. And while you’re going through this process you can think about how grateful you are to have that breath, to have your life, to have this food in front of you that’s going to nourish your body. What ends up happening, Ashley, is most people—I mean, would you agree that we live in a stressed-out environment, a world?


[00:46:49] Ashley James: Right.


[00:46:51] Tim James: So even if you don’t think you’re stressed, you are. Your body doesn’t know the difference. If you are in stress mode, which most of us are, and we’re talking lots of stress—work stress, family stress, financial stress, COVID stress, and EMF stress. There are lots of stresses on us, right? Your body will—as a defense mechanism—go into fight-or-flight mode. The blood actually leaves the organ systems because digestion is not important now. You got to fight something to live or you got to run to live. So all the blood and all the energy goes out to your extremities. Cortisol gets jacked up, adrenals, and all these things.

So by simply doing this breathwork for a minute to two, you bring the blood from the extremities back into the organ system so you can actually digest your food properly. Less than 1% of the population is doing that. Now these core four secrets, besides getting some glass jars and packing the water from the purifying place, how much does that cost anybody? Nothing. It’s free, right? There they are. I have so many people when they order our products they hear me on a podcast or whatever radio show, they’re like, “Tim, I’m already feeling better before I even got your products.” Because they started implementing these things. They’re just common sense.

I’ve used this for 10 years. I’ve shared it with thousands of people. It works for everybody, every single person. I tell people until you’ve done it yourself, how do you know? You have to have a first-person experience. Don’t believe what I say. You got to go home and try it. Because people are like, well I don’t want to change my food. I’m going to exercise. I’m going to go get something. No, you don’t even have your foundation in place first. This is the foundation. This is the sub-basement to build upon, and then after that, then we really get deep with our products, to the detoxing, to the nutrition, to the bacteria, and all the other stuff.


[00:48:37] Ashley James: Awesome. So cool. I love it. I love that you point out that anyone can start this, and you can start it slow. You can start one habit at a time. I think chewing the food more is something that is going to take a bit of conscious effort, especially if you’re used to drinking a lot of water. I’ve seen a lot of people do this where they just take maybe two bites and then drink some water to help get it down. The food hasn’t really been chewed.


[00:49:15] Tim James: I have a solution for this if I could share.


[00:49:17] Ashley James: Yeah.


[00:49:17] Tim James: I do private coaching, one-on-one. In the beginning, I didn’t charge anything because I didn’t value myself. Now I have people pay me thousands of dollars a month to coach them if they wanted to work with me. I have other coaches, it’s not that expensive, but the first thing I do on our initial call, we do this onboarding calls. I have them pull out their phone, and I have them program these things into their life with recurring appointments. Now think about it, if I say plot, plot, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief it is, many people listening today know what I’m talking about. We’re talking about Alka-Seltzer. Why is that?

It’s because television programming actually calls it that. They’re telling you, hey, we’re going to program you. That’s what they call a television program. My dad was like, “What program are we going to watch tonight?” We’re getting programmed with commercials—the habitual repetitive motion. You say something long enough, and often enough, people believe it is true or they’ll remember it because what you’re doing is just simple. It’s programming the subconscious mind. 

What I have my clients do is they wake up in the morning and it says drink water. They pick the time and they had a recurring appointment. And it’s like [buzzing] and it says drink water. Then maybe 30 minutes later it’ll say green juice, Gut Detox, Toxin Detox. Those are our products, and we have them programmed as a reminder. Then at lunchtime, it says chew food. You can put chew food, avoid liquids, breath, probiotics, and enzymes, and we have that as a recurring appointment. In the afternoon—green juice, and then at dinner—chew food, avoid liquids, breath, enzymes, and recurring.

So I have them set up that structure. And then every day, their phone [buzzing], they look down, they see it, they see it, they see it, they see it, they see it. They’re smart. They’re now programming it. They’re using their phone to program themselves, and in three to four months you’re going to have a hard time forgetting those four things. And everybody improves. That’s the easiest, cheapest way I’ve found to do it because everybody carries their phone around.


[00:51:12] Ashley James: Very cool. What kind of juicer? Could it just be any juicer, or do you like the masticating juicer over the centrifugal juicer? Is it better just to get any juicer and just start doing it, or do you have a preference?


[00:51:28] Tim James: Well it really depends on what you want to do. If you’re just going to do celery juice, then you could get a cheaper centrifugal one. It’s really fast, but the ones that are the most nutritious—I’m putting sprouts and wheatgrass through mine. I can do wheatgrass juice. I can turn right around and make a nice sprout juice. I do cucumber, celery, sunflower, pea sprouts, and I’ll put some ginger in there, turmeric, or some lemons and limes. Maybe some vegetables from time to time like leafy greens or whatever.

What you want is a slow auger juicer that’s going to turn under 72, 75 RPMs, very slow so it’s not going to create all that oxidation like a wind tunnel that’s going to oxidize and devalue the nutrients quickly. That’s very important. It’s just a really slow auger juicer. The one we recommend now is an Omega. Omega’s got a bunch of them. You can pick them, but I can’t remember the exact model number now because I used to be super into the juicers. I still use my old Omega 8006. It just works, but there are newer ones that actually work a little bit better and they don’t get gummed up as much. They’re awesome, but you can get one of those for $350 bucks and you’re dialed. Or like you say, go to OfferUp. People are selling stuff like crazy now. Or they started juicing, they got all excited about it, and they gave up on it. Hey, take my juicer for $1000 and you can get a $300, $400 juicer for $100.


[00:52:55] Ashley James: Yeah, right. I’ve got them for even cheaper, but yeah. I have an Omega that I got back in 2008 for $30 or something.


[00:53:04] Tim James: That’s a deal.


[00:53:05] Ashley James: I know, I know. There are people who just want to get it out of the house or whatever. There are so many juicers out there. You want one you can find one at your budget, but the Omega’s fantastic. I love Omega. I’ve had such great success with it.


[00:53:23] Tim James: Yeah, they’re really good. I literally healed myself with juicing. I juiced twice a day for five years because I was like I’m healing Charles, I’m committed. I gave my word that I would do this with him, so that’s another thing is to get a buddy and stuff. The first product that we actually developed—this could be a good segue—is our Green 85 Juice formula. It’s basically as close to a fresh-pressed juice as you can get. This is where I met people where they’re at. It’s simple, it’s easy. They just take a scoop, mix in water, shake it up, and they drink. It takes literally under a minute and they’re done. And they’re flooding their body with all this nutrition. If you still want to juice, do it. I totally do it. I made a fresh juice this morning and I put a scoop of Green 85 in it. Because I want more rights. That’s what I do, but we have stuff like that available to people.

For those of you that don’t want to buy a juicer, I recommend that you do at some point, but you can get this in yourself once or twice a day easily. There’s no juicing, there’s no cleanup, there’s no mess. The grocery bills are way cheaper. When people are drinking these greens twice a day, your grocery bill drops about $100 a month. If you’re drinking it once a day it drops about $50 because as the cells get hydrated from all this new water you’re going to be drinking, hopefully, and you drink these greens and get the nutrients in there, the cells are going to send signals saying, hey, I’m not hungry. You just can’t eat as much. It’s impossible. Your body just whips right back up into shape, and your grocery bill drops. It’s pretty cool. You can do this on a budget. You just have to be strategic about it.


[00:54:51] Ashley James: Very cool. Why is it called Green 85? Is it 85?


[00:54:56] Tim James: Yeah. We called it Green 85 Juice formula, not because I’m a marketer or anything, it’s just because it replaces the 85% of the nutrition that’s farmed out of the soil. Most people aren’t aware of this that even if you’re eating organic vegetables or organic meat, the soil is 85% deficient on average, so it’s just not there. If it’s not in the soil, it’s not going to be in the plant or in the animal that ate the plant. Literally, almost all of us are actually walking around on 15% fuel or 15% octane. What I teach people to do is how to get up to 100% octane. We figured it out with our products now to make it easy for people so they can do it.

Our whole program, it’s a clinic in a box. Literally completely from the inside out—gut health, blood health. It takes less than five minutes a day, so it meets people where they’re at with their time constraints. That’s why we called it Green 85 is because it replaces the 85% that’s been farmed out of our soils today.


[00:55:55] Ashley James: How do you guarantee that your stuff has all of the minerals and the vitamins in it that we need? If the nutrients aren’t in the soil, how do you get it in your sprout formula?


[00:56:06] Tim James: It’s all about sourcing. Sourcing the individual ingredients from farms and farmers that understand how to keep their soil healthy. Either they are doing permaculture, maybe they re-mineralize with rock dust, or even better, they’re re-mineralizing with ionic ocean minerals. They get a concentrate out of the ocean. There’s a company called I’ll just give them a plug because this stuff’s awesome. You can get a gallon, and you should. You should get a gallon of this stuff. It’s like $55 or something. And you can put a little quarter of a teaspoon or a half a teaspoon in with your sprouts when you soak them and deliver tremendous amounts more minerals because the plants will soak that stuff up. You can do your lawn with it. You can do your garden. We did my brother’s garden. We sprayed one spray with ionic ocean minerals and the size of his garden doubled. And they were like what is going on. I’m like yeah, your soil’s deficient, right?

And the other thing that you can tell is how you feel. When you start drinking this stuff on a daily basis, it’s going to radically change your physiology from the inside out. I’ve personally made three runs at it. I wanted to do 40 days and 40 nights on just Green 85. The first time I tried it I made it 11 days, then I made it 26 days, and then last year I finally made it 40 days. And all I had was Green 85, 3-5 times a day. I had hibiscus tea, which is just water and hibiscus leaves, and I did some Irish sea moss in the morning and night. I actually did do a chai tea latte, but no sugar. That’s what I lived on for 40 days was Green 85.


[00:57:50] Ashley James: So you were doing a fast?


[00:57:52] Tim James: Yeah. And the time before when I did it 26 days, it was only Green 85 and I never felt better. I don’t want to blow people out of the water here too and think you have to do that stuff. Because I remember when I was at the institute and this guy was on a 10-day fast, I’m like 10 days you didn’t eat? How is that even possible? See I wasn’t even ready for that. It takes time to build up the mental strength, understanding, and how the body works. And then you have to be willing to go through a little pain to feel amazing because usually, the first two, three days of a fast it’s like you’re not feeling so good. You’re freaking getting cravings, and then all of a sudden you’re just not hungry at all and it just goes away. Your body kicks into ketosis and starts burning up all the fat and the dead cells in your body. It just starts cleaning you up.

We were nomadic people for almost the entirety of the time we walked this planet. So we’d walk for two or three days, and then we’d eat some food. Then we’d walk for two or three days, we wouldn’t eat, and then we would allow our digestive tract a time to rest and clean itself up, and our blood to clean itself up. We’re just literally eating ourselves to death. Like you said with the cereals and stuff, I mean, I don’t want to get started on that, but it’s terrible. They’re putting genetically modified wheat, as an example, so it’s grown in a lab, raised in soils that are deficient, sprayed with chemical fertilizers, chemical pesticides, fungicides, larvicides, and herbicides.

They grind it up in its dormant state, which if I gave you some hard red winter wheat and had your spring wheat and had you chew it you’d crack a tooth. You can’t digest that. It would come out just how it looks when it went in your mouth, but they ground it in that dormant state into a powder. They add sugar, water, and yeast. They cook it at high temperatures, devalue it more, and then they spray synthetic vitamins on it. They call it enriched vitamins, and then they give it to kids. This is supposed to be healthy food. And then it’s even worse. Now they’re putting super sugars like high fructose corn syrup and corn syrup that are 50% by weight glyphosate. This is not me saying it, this is right out of MIT. It’s bad. 50% by weight high fructose corn syrup is glyphosate, it’s Roundup—so ketchup and stuff.

This stuff started freaking me out, but that’s not good enough. They want more addiction so they hired these engineers types, they pay them big salaries, and they created these opiate derivatives that they put in cereals, and it’s not even on the box, to further addict us and our children to eat cereals. So the cereal thing really ticks me off. The only one that I would purchase is Ezekiel Brand Natural. That’s actually sprouted grains, that’s it. They have sprouted grains ground up and you just put it in some seed milk and then off you go. Flaxseed milk or something like that so you’ve got proper food combining, and then then you’ve got cereal you could actually eat and it’s not going to destroy your health.


Photo by Tomasz Filipek on Unsplash


[01:00:31] Ashley James: Right. Some of us have allergies to gluten or can’t eat barley, wheat, rye, or oats so cereal is not even on the table. But you know what, I’ve gotten used to eating big beautiful salads for breakfast. Actually, what I do is I take my sprouts. I told you day five is my favorite. I take a big bowl of my lentil sprouts, I drizzle balsamic vinegar on it, then I take a little bit of either coconut aminos or soy aminos—the Bragg’s aminos—and then I just mix it up. And I eat a big bowl of lentil sprouts for breakfast. I was surprised because then it was all of a sudden 2:00 PM and I’m like wow, I’m just starting to get hungry. A big bowl of lentil sprouts gave me energy throughout the whole morning, and well into the afternoon. It was really cool. Sometimes, on days like that, I just have that for breakfast and then I just make a really big beautiful dinner, and that’s it.

We can get away from this idea of having to eat what we ate as children, right? Or what we are marketed to our entire lives. I love that you brought up that. We have to remember to not become relaxed and give into—because sometimes people say, oh, just in moderation. I don’t want to get too strict. I’m going to be in moderation, and once in a while, we’re going to eat the standard American diet. We’ll just buy this Cheerios or whatever once in a while, but we have to remember that the glyphosate—the Roundup—is so concentrated. When they make high fructose corn syrup, it’s so concentrated.

I’ve had two really great interviews with Dr. Stephanie Cena, who’s the PhD, top research scientist from MIT who is an activist trying desperately to let us know. And she doesn’t get paid to do any of it. She’s trying to let us know that glyphosate is such a harmful chemical. It binds to heavy metals and releases them into our brain and into our kidneys causing major problems with developmental issues for children, but also can cause kidney disease and actually damage to the brain.


[01:02:56] Tim James: It’s in over 70% of the rainwater today, just to give people an idea of how much it’s out there. It’s bad. That Stephanie gal, she’s smart. I’ve seen some of her work. She was also talking about the laminate floors directly linked to autism in children—another contributing cause. Some really good work that she’s done. She’s done some really cool stuff.


[01:03:18] Ashley James: Yes. In cleaning up our diet, water, and food, we also have to consider the environmental factors that are in our home because the air quality in our home can have 10 times more pollution than outside, than being in a busy street in downtown whatever town you’re in. And yet, we think that it’s fresh air inside, but it’s not because everything is off-gassing. We have to remember to open the windows.


[01:03:51] Tim James: Maybe we are related because you sound like me. I feel like I’m listening to myself. The paint’s off-gassing, the glues are off-guessing, and we’re bringing this stuff in. It’s really cool to be chatting with you today.


[01:04:04] Ashley James: You might have heard of the Sternagles, have you heard of them?


[01:04:07] Tim James: Mm-mm.


[01:04:07] Ashley James: I’ll connect you guys. The Sternagles are a family. I’ve had them on the show. Their son, at a year old, and actually his pediatrician was our pediatrician. They now live in Utah, but we found out that we actually lived really close to each other. At one year old, their son was diagnosed with cancer, and so the last five years he’s been fighting cancer and it came back. They got it to go away and then it came back again. So they really have been fighting it for five years, maybe six years now. He now has a clean bill of health—spoiler alert—but they tell a great story of how they’ve had to fight cancer twice.

The first time they used natural medicine and in conjunction with some allopathic medicine. And the second time it came back, they got the oncologist’s blessing—because they’re very persuasive—to just allow them to do 100% natural medicine and watch, wait, and see. And they’re able to 100% help their child to not have any cancer any tumors. He had tumors in his nervous system and in the spine—very painful. In their journey, like you, they’ve really gotten clear that the toxins in their house and in their environment needed to be thrown away. They moved to Utah, took the rest of their life savings, bought some land in a beautiful area, and they built from scratch a completely non-toxic home

He teaches people. He shares all this information, teaches people how to do it, but his whole thing is what kind of light bulbs are you going to use? What kind of carpeting? What kind of paint? What kind of caulking? What kind of tile? Just every single square inch of their house is the lowest toxic, and it’s just amazing the things we take for granted that we don’t realize are affecting and are contributing to potential cancer, contributing to potential disease, or slowing the development of our children.

Like you said, Dr. Stephanie Seneff, seeing there’s even a link from laminate floors and the off-gassing to potentially creating autism-like symptoms in children.

You mentioned the Irish moss. Why did you take it? And how do you take it?


[01:06:40] Tim James: I take it because it’s got like 92 minerals in it. It’s chocked full of minerals. It can be used as a thickener. You can make a pudding with it, you can make a key lime pie with it, or you can just eat it plain or you could squeeze some lime or lemon juice, a little bit of salt, and then consume it in the beginning. It’s just a wonderful thing. It’s great for the gastrointestinal tract, for your skin, your brain health, and your gut health—everything. What I do is I try to get the purple stuff, it’s harder to find, especially now with everybody home, everybody’s buying all this stuff up. It’s either white or purple. I try to get the wildcrafted purple stuff, and it can be more expensive like $35 to $45 a pound.

But then I take a half a pound of it, I soak it in water for 10-12 hours, then I rinse it off, and I pick out any little sea stuff or rocks that are leftover. It’s pre-washed, but there’s still stuff left, and then I put it in a blender with a little bit of water and blend it to a kind of a paste. Add more water, and I just keep doing that until I got about a half a gallon. From that half a pound I’ll turn into about a half a gallon of this gel, and then I put in the fridge and it gels up. Every morning and night I take a big huge scoop of it. That stuff’s awesome. It really is.


[01:07:53] Ashley James: Does it taste good?


[01:07:54] Tim James: I wouldn’t say that at the beginning because especially when it comes out of the blender it’s kind of warm. It really needs to chill. I mean I can eat it warm now but I’m still like ugh. It’s still what it is. It’s like a sea vegetable. It’s not like dulse flakes. Dulse I think is really good. We put that in our green 85 formula because it’s got a lot of iodine in it, and that’s one of the big reasons so many people have thyroid issues today is because there’s a lack of iodine. It’s one of the four halogens. You’ve got iodine, bromide, chloride, and fluoride. What I was taught was that the thyroid thinks that those other ones like chlorine, fluorine, and bromide are iodine, especially if it’s not getting enough of it. So it grabs it. It’s like oh, iodine, but it’s not. And then it doesn’t communicate properly. It doesn’t talk and give clear direction.

Especially for women listening with breast cancer, we’ve been taught to give them tons and tons of iodine. We like it through a root system of a plant so that it’s converted from rock form to a carbon-based form. It works better, and this sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep, and sweep that out and then get the thyroid chock full of a normal plant-based vitamin or iodine that’s been through the root symptom of a plant. That really helps out with breast cancer. There’s a lot of studies on that kind of stuff too.


[01:09:12] Ashley James: I love  01:09:12] iodine, which has been derived from sea vegetables. I like yours better because I love a whole food source of nutrients because then you’re always going to get it in the right ratios. So you’re getting iodine in the right ratios with other trace elements, and I love that you brought up that something that people are getting in their body every day—the bromine, the fluoride, or the chlorine. They’re getting it in their tap water, they’re getting it when they go in their hot tub, or when they go swimming in a swimming pool. We’re absorbing these chemicals that confuse.


[01:09:47] Tim James: From their toothpaste or their bread.


[01:09:51] Ashley James: Oh, right. Processed foods would have bromide in it. Processed foods are made with tap water so they’re going to have that. You know what’s really interesting, it made me so sad, but frozen vegetables, which I thought was a good alternative if you can’t get to the grocery store often. Frozen vegetables are processed by being washed in highly chlorinated water.


[01:10:17] Tim James: Yeah, genius.


[01:10:19] Ashley James: Because they’re supposed to make them disinfected or whatever. It’s great because it’s fresh, right? They’re picking it from the farm and immediately flash-freezing it, but before they immediately fast freeze it, they wash it several times with highly chlorinated water. Then that chlorine is getting into your system or those chemicals are getting into your system from your tap water, from swimming, from your bread, from taking showers. I live on a well so I feel really blessed, and I haven’t used fluoridated toothpaste in 12 years because I woke up back then discovered why fluoride is so bad. Not in its naturally occurring state in the ground because we can eat fluoride when it comes out of the ground.

It’s one of those trace elements the body needs, but not in the chemical form sodium fluoride. It confuses the thyroid, and the thyroid is absorbing these instead of the iodine. And then the thyroid can’t make the hormones, so then we go to an MD and the MD gives us what? Gives us a prescription when the thyroid isn’t working because we’re giving the body chemicals.


[01:11:25] Tim James: Yeah, so you get more chemicals. This is really important because this really helped me. All the listeners have to do is type in the umbilical cord and the word chemical. Just type that in—umbilical cord and chemical. You can go back to 2005 and you can see the studies showing that they actually take the umbilical cord blood from these brand new babies and young mothers, and they tested for like 400 chemicals. They found 71% of what they were looking for. For about 250 toxic chemicals, 180 cause cancer in humans, 212 cause developmental and brain disorders, and on down the list it goes. The scientists and doctors refer to this as a body burden. How come this is not being blasted on mainstream media?

You’ll see it in 2005, 2010, 2013, 2012, the different studies that come out. Environmental working group, different places, and nobody’s talking about that. That’s when I realized, I’m like, oh my God. If the youngest of young—the young babies and the young mothers, the healthiest of everybody—is already being born into this world with a body burden, we’re all polluted. Everybody’s polluted. I realized that. I’ve been on a mission, that’s what we call our company chemical-free body because you can look at the studies. And if that doesn’t hit you upside the head like a frying pan and you realize that you’re polluted, even though you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not the case because we’re all breathing the same air, drinking the water, eating these foods, and we’re exposed to all these personal care products that you don’t think.

Like you were saying, everything’s off-gassing. You got people spraying chemtrails, automobile exhausts, rubber compounds coming off of tires. Where does that go? Well, the tires started out with a lot of treads and then you got to get new tires every year or two, why? Where’d the rubber go? It goes into the environment microscopic. You breathe it in, it attaches to your mucous membrane in the back of your throat, and down into your gut, it goes. That’s where the problems are. That’s why we have really focused on teaching people how to become a mechanic for their own self, be doctoring themselves. You’re a mechanic. If the car is not running right you got to check body light or check engine light.

Here’s the example, car’s not running right check engine light comes on. Do you just keep driving that car? No, nobody does that because they know if they keep driving it and they don’t take it into the mechanic, the repair bill could get huge. Or the car could explode, or break down and they’re stranded at the side of the road they can’t get where they want to go anymore. When check engine lights come on people take them in and get them fixed. It makes sense. It’s common sense, but as our own bodies—the most important vehicle that you’re ever going to own, it’s the only one you got—has a check body light like you’ve gained weight, you have low energy, you have headaches, you have heart disease —


[01:14:02] Ashley James: You’re bleeding rectally.


[01:14:04] Tim James: Yeah, yeah you’re bleeding rectally, you have cancer, all these things. You have eczema on your elbows, you’re on medications, your body is just flashing the lights like hey, hey, stop, stop, take me in, take me in. Tune me up. This is where self-care comes into place, and you have to start loving yourself and realizing the only person that’s going to take care of your body is you. Not me, Ashley, some doctor, your aunt, your uncle, your grandma, your brother, your sister, your husband, or your wife. It has to be you. Look at animals. They take care of themselves. The cat wakes up, it stretches, does its yoga poses, and it licks its fur—it takes care of itself.

We don’t do that. We don’t expect everybody else to do it. We take really good care of the outside. We wake up, we shower, we brush our hair. We got our face—put our makeup on, we got our earrings, and everything’s looking good. The coat’s looking good, the skirt’s looking right, but what do we do to the inside of ourselves? You can’t see it so it’s not paid attention to. What we do is we teach people to take care of the inside. If the car’s not running right you flush the transmission fluid, you flush the engine, new spark plugs, new fuel filter, new air filter, and new water filter. Then you put in the good fuel and then you maintenance that sucker, and that’s what we’re teaching people to do with their bodies.

You clean out the digestive tract. We have a product called Gut Detox, it’s a thousand ancient-year-old formula from India. It works beautifully for that. You want to purify the blood, we have a product called Toxin Detox. It was originally two formulas for the military that will purify the blood of heavy metals, radiation, and toxic chemicals like glyphosate as an example. And then where are you going to get the fuel? Well, you need to flood the body with those green nutrition twice a day.

We have a product for that, and then you got to recolonize that bacteria—probiotic spores. We do the spore base rather than regular probiotics because they die in the stomach acid, and for those of you eating yogurt and thinking that’s a health food, it’s a dessert. Probiotics are bacteria, okay. When you heat them, which by law you have to do that to all that yogurt, it’s pasteurized. It’s 190 degrees, they’re dead. So yes, you’re getting probiotics, but you’re getting the corpse of a probiotic. It’s dead. There’s no benefit. You’re just having breakfast, or you’re having dessert for breakfast with yogurt, that kind of stuff.

All these things come into play, and it’s really about internal health. When you clean out the gut. you clean the blood, and you start flooding the body with nutrition, flood the body with these bacteria and eating fermented foods like sauerkrauts, kimchis, and these types of things, and more bacteria, getting outside, getting your hands on the dirt, more bacteria. Petting dogs and let the dog kiss you, more bacteria, the healthier you’re going to be. That’s how it works.


[01:16:39] Ashley James: I love it. There are plant-based fermented yogurts you can find that are raw.


[01:16:48] Tim James: CocoYo is one.


[01:16:49] Ashley James: Yeah, CocoYo. So what I do, I learned this from my friend Naomi. Naomi and I created a whole food plant-based course, videos. We basically just made videos in her kitchen because she’s amazing at whole food plant-based. I was doing it before her then she started because she had a heart disease diagnosis, and then she started spreading it. Her whole family started doing it, her parents started doing it, and then they all saw these great benefits. She’s really creative in the kitchen at getting people with very picky appetites to like the food. So she figured out, she soaks raw cashews, and then takes cashews, puts in the Vitamix, blends it, and then mixes in a few spoonfuls of the CocoYo and a very little water and then ferments it for about 24 to 48 hours on the counter. It makes the most delicious, and it works best when we use CocoYo because of the live culture. We can really tell the difference, but it makes the most delicious like cream cheese, sour cream, and you don’t need a ton of it because it’s—


[01:18:03] Tim James: Strong.


[01:18:04] Ashley James: Yeah, it’s strong. It’s very. It’s strong. It’s very dense nutritionally, very calorically dense, but her kids will fight over it. She had to take it and put it in individual little containers with their name on it because they would literally fight over it, which is really cool. She’s made other great delicious recipes where the kids will fight over it, and not leave any for the dad when he gets home from work. And that always surprises her because she made a vegetable dish the other day with mushrooms, and her kids hate mushrooms, but the way she made it was so delicious they ate it all up and they didn’t leave any for the dad. So she had to make a second dinner.

It’s just so cool when she never would have thought that her kids would get excited over a whole food plant-based diet. There are just ways of making it really delicious. When I used to cook years ago, I would start with, okay, well, we’re going to have a roast for dinner. We’re going to have the salmon for dinner. We’re going to have the pork chops, or we’re going to have the chicken. You would start with what’s the meat, and then what complements the meat. Well, I guess I’ll make some couscous, or I guess I’ll make some broccoli. You bring in the side dishes, right?

Now, my focus is on what can I eat to heal my gut? What can I eat to maintain my energy and my vitality? What can I eat to get nutrients in my body? And that becomes the compass or the foundation of that meal, and then what can I eat that’s raw today? What can I eat that has all those delicious raw enzymes that my body needs? And then I build the meal upon that. If you bring your focus to what you want to heal in your body, and what you want to support your whole family, what can I eat to support my immune system? What can I eat to help my liver detoxify? And then you build the meals upon the premise of healing the body.

So your kitchen becomes your pharmacy instead of what can I eat that’s just delicious? Because these foods are delicious. They can absolutely be delicious, but we have to make our focus be what can I do to support the 37.2 trillion cells in my body, so in seven years, I’m a totally new person but I’m actually going to be younger cellularly. I’m going to be younger in seven years. What can I do to make me younger? Now, as women, we spend thousands of dollars in our lifetime on face creams to make our skin appear as young as possible, but we’ve got to actually work on the nutrition on the inside. And when we do that, then our skin will develop younger-looking cells.

So instead of focusing on what I can schlop on my face, we should be focusing on what nutrients we give our body that will make healthy cells, and then we actually look younger and younger? It’s so true.


[01:20:51] Tim James: Yeah. It’s usually coming more from our women clients, but in six months on our protocols, people look five years younger. You’ll know once you start getting about three to four unsolicited comments like maybe your hairdresser will be like wow, your skin’s looking good. Or your roots are coming in thicker, what are you doing? Somebody will just say, wow, you look younger. And in the beginning, it feels weird because I started getting this from people. Especially from a guy, redneck, supposed to eat meat, drink whiskey, and shoot guns or something. Now it’s like, hey, Tim. You have really beautiful skin. I mean that made me feel my skin crawl in the beginning when people started telling me this stuff because I didn’t even know how to take it because nobody ever talked to me like that before. Now, I’m like, my skin is beautiful. Thank you so much. I love it. I love getting the comments. And I like freaking people out. I can’t wait till I turn 50. I can’t wait till I turn 60 because I like people going what?

I want to be that guy that’s like 110, sprinting down the beach, playing tag football with my great, great, grandkids, and they think I’m like their old dad or a healthy grandparent, you know what I mean? Because I know that’s possible now because I’ve met people that are doing this.

Dr. Gabriel Cousens, he lives a living food diet. You should have him on, he’s awesome. He goes deep into diabetes and stuff, wasn’t trying to do that, but he’s got books written on it. The dude’s like 80 something, he can do like 30 pull-ups. He did a rain dance for the Indians. He was telling all the Indians you got to stop eating the buffalo, you got to start eating plants, and they thought he was crazy. Nobody had done this rain dance in a decade, 4 decades, or 10 decades. It’s been a long time because it’s two days no sleep doing this dance. Well, he did it. He did it in the late ‘70s, early ‘80s, and then afterward, all the chiefs were like well maybe we should start eating plants because somebody’s been able to do that dance for 40 years or whatever it was.

The results speak for themselves. People see other people. If you want people around you to change, you have to make those changes for yourself. There’s no question about it. That’s how you do it.


[01:23:07] Ashley James: Awesome. I love it. In the last few years since you’ve been working with people and helping them to adopt a more whole food plant-based, even more raw foods lifestyle to support their overall health, what diseases have you seen people reverse? What medications have you seen people get off of because they became so healthy?


[01:23:27] Tim James: Everything. I’ve seen everything.


[01:23:30] Ashley James: Can you give us some stories or some examples?


[01:23:33] Tim James: Yeah. One of the first ones was this guy that had multiple sclerosis. His name was Bob, and this guy had come to me. Actually, I met this other guy in the grocery store at Whole Foods. He had a whole bunch of stuff. And I’m like, “Wow you must be juicing.” He’s like, “Well, actually, I got horses, and we feed all these carrots to the horses.” I was like, “I just started juicing so I thought you were because when I first started juicing, I was doing carrots and that kind of stuff.” He’s like, “No, it’s for horses.”

Anyway, he came over, went to one of my dinner classes. He was an attorney, really nice, just a gentleman. The guy was a sweetheart, and we became friends. Then he was part of this men’s bible group. This guy Bob had MS. He’s like, “God, Tim, will this help Bob?” And I’m like, “Yeah, actually what I heard was that people with MS, they actually really need this. Besides the lifestyle and the juicing, they need a blue-green algae.” It comes from Klamath Lake down in Oregon here. It really bolsters and strengthens the fatty tissue of the brain. What I was told is that MS is a virus that’s attacking the fatty tissue of the brain, so we want to bolster and strengthen that up. It’s one of the protocols they use at the Hippocrates Health Institute for people with MS.

Well, this guy couldn’t even walk. He had a caregiver, and I don’t know how long it was—a few months or whatever he was on the protocols. All of a sudden, he was driving up to his house, and the guy was walking across the street and getting his newspaper. He pulled up. He’s like, “Bob. Look at you.” And he’s like, “What?” He’s like, “You’re getting the newspaper, man. You’re walking.” He’s like, “Well, yeah. I guess I am.” And then a few months later, all of a sudden, I get this knock on the door and it’s Bob and his caregiver. He’s walking. I never met the guy before. It was just somebody through osmosis.

He’s like, “I just want to come by and say thank you because the stuff that you’ve been sharing with my buddy has helped me. I’ve been able to get out of the house. I can walk now. I’m getting around to do things. I feel a lot better.” And believe me, he wasn’t fully on the whole program at all, but the changes he made had made a significant impact on him. It wasn’t just the blue-green algae, the [inaudible 01:25:29], it was the brain on version. That’s very important for those of you that are writing that down who might have somebody with MS. But it’s like a super-duper omega is what it is. You’re looking for those omegas. It’s the sub-basement of where all omega comes from.

We recommend people do that for a two to three year period, and then after that, you can do it periodically. Human beings aren’t supposed to eat algae all the time, but for healing, it can be a good thing.


[01:25:52] Ashley James: Absolutely. I totally agree with you. I’ve had several interviews with Catharine Arnston, who’s the creator of She gives us a great discount. Listeners can use the LTH coupon at But she shares her story, and she sources blue-green algae. It’s chlorella and also spirulina. She has it tested, has the water that it’s grown in tested—it’s all purified.


[01:26:21] Tim James: Yeah, it’s important.


[01:26:22] Ashley James: Yeah, it’s very important. There are zero heavy metals. There are other companies out there. You can buy it cheaper, but the problem with buying it cheaper is it’s full of lead, heavy metals, and pollution. There are only a handful of companies out there that will test it. She actually has it tested twice. She has tested where it’s grown and also has the final product tested for purity to make sure there are no heavy metals and there’s no pollution in it. I’m really impressed with the quality of hers, and hers actually don’t taste fishy like other companies do. Hers tastes like it’s fresh.


[01:26:57] Tim James: Clean.


[01:26:58] Ashley James: Yeah, it tastes clean. My son loves them. He’s five but he’s been eating them his whole life. He calls them green crackers, and he loves that it turns his tongue different colors depending on which one he’s eating. He loves that game. So if you want to get kids into it, it’s like look at my tongue, you can make your tongue green. You can make your tongue like this bluish color, and then they freak out and they want to do it too. That’s a great way to get kids to eat it, but it also helps to chelate the heavy metals from the body. That’s part of the protocol that a doctor here, I’ve had him on the show, Dr. Klinghart. He’s just outside of Seattle, and he has a clinic where he basically reverses autism.

He gets kids that are non-verbal, rocking themselves, hitting their head, or banging them themselves against a wall. He gets them from the point where they’re completely shut in their own nervous system and unable to communicate or connect with people, to where they’re able to go to college. Where they’re totally no longer on a spectrum. I think it’s because they don’t actually have autism. I think most of the children that are diagnosed with autism, it’s autism-like symptoms, and that it’s the chemical toxicity.

What he does, Dr. Klinghart has a whole protocol where he cleans the child’s body out of all of the heavy metals and nutrifies the body—like you’ve been talking about. And has them remove the chemicals in their life—like you’re talking about. They just come back online. He has them do green juicing—just like you’re talking about. He has them do chlorella, spirulina, and do saunas—depending on their age.


[01:28:44] Tim James: Is he having them do chlorine dioxide?


[01:28:46] Ashley James: I don’t know, but I will find out. He has a whole protocol. A lot of it is food-based as well. He puts herbs in their green smoothies that also are natural chelators. It’s easy to put just these herbs. You can grow yourself in your own garden into your into your green smoothies every day. But that’s when I first learned that he specifically uses it with children very effectively. That he gives them the algae, and he will only recommend one of the few brands out there that are so clean like Catharine Arnston’s brands.

But we’ve had had her on the show a few times because she went into all the studies and talks about the nutritional profile of chlorella and spirulina, and it’s fascinating. You can get your vitamin K.


Photo by Vita Marija Murenaite on Unsplash


[01:29:42] Tim James: It’s amazing. It’s amazing. Our top four ingredients—spirulina and chlorella are in there. We test them like crazy. It’s very important that people understand the ingredients. You can’t even believe labels anymore today. You have to know the people behind it, that’s the only way. The only reason I have the supplement brand now is because of frustration.

As a health coach, I would do all this research. I’m like okay, I got to clean their gut—this product. Okay, we need to purify their blood—this one. We need a green juice—this one. And then we need digestive enzymes—that one. We need probiotics—that one. And then six months later, I’m looking, I’m like what? Xanthan gum? That wasn’t in there before. And I’m comparing the bottles and I call them up, I go, “What’s this?” It’s mutated corn syrup fermented in bacteria. I’m like, “What? I’m not putting that in my body.” And then I started reading the labels and I started looking up every little ingredient—dicalcium phosphate, the wrong type of silica that would cause hardening the arteries, gallstones, and kidney stones.

After research, research, research, I’d finally get something. I tell everybody about it. My coaching clients are using it, and then they’d switch the ingredients. I mean after this happened three or four times, Ashley, I finally said this is enough. I found Dr. Scott Treadway, who’s one of the top formulators in the world, and he actually studied in India under two lineages of thousands of years of apprenticeship at herbology. Then he studied Chinese herbology, and then Western herbology. So he’s got this trifecta of knowledge. He did practice clinical work with patients, seeing his own patients for 10 years besides when he was getting trained in India, and then now he’s one of the top supplement formulators in the world.

When we met, I was looking for somebody. I went through 30 labs until I met him. And I’m like, “Do you know what Kirlian photography is?” And he’s like, “Oh, yes. We have two of those machines.” I’m like, “Really?” For those of you that don’t know what that is, it’s a machine that can actually measure the energy or the frequency from whatever you’re pointing it at like a night scope. What’s cool is we can process—anytime you process anything you’re devaluing the nutrients. What we do in ours on our wheatgrass juice extract, spirulina, oat grass juice, wheat sprout, broccoli sprout, meringue leaf, or anything that’s in our products, they’re air dried or sun driesun-dried10 degrees to keep those enzymes or that life force active. It’s actually a charge. Not only are you getting the vitamins, the minerals, and the trace minerals, but you’re literally getting a frequency charge from the product itself. It’s literally charging the cells instant contact.

And we’ve had those people that are intuitives or Reikis people that are really into energy healing. They’ll come to booths that we have at events and they’ll take one sip of our greens and they’ll go, “What is this stuff?” They just flip out. And then, “I’ll take six cans.” And then the people working there are like, “What’s going on?” They see that they’re in tune and they know. So that’s what we tell people on our greens. Don’t blend it because 90 seconds in a blender you’re going to kill 85% to 92% of the nutrition of whatever you put in there. Make your smoothie if you’re going to do that, add the greens in later, stir it in, spoon it, and then shake it up, and drink it that way to not kill that life force. That’s very important. And then please read your labels.

On my products, you’ll see in red on all of them no magnesium stearate, no silicon dioxide, no dicalcium phosphate, and I can’t tell you how many people have called in and are like, “Dude that stuff’s in all my stuff.” So if you’re buying supplements, you have about a 95% chance that you’re consuming a toxic chemical even though it’s purported to be health food. Keep in mind, 85% of the supplements on the market today are synthetic versions sold by pharmaceutical companies. So 85% of the entire supplement market is big pharma.


[01:33:25] Ashley James: Right. I’ve been working with Dr. Joel Wallach for the last nine years, and he had the same problem. He is a Naturopathic physician, but back 20-30 years ago, he was working with patients. He had clinics actually from Washington all the way down to California. We’d drive down I-5, go to a different clinic, meet with people, and work up and down the western seaboard. He was getting great results because of all of his research that went into understanding that we’re minerally deficient, and so he was using another company. And all of a sudden people stopped getting results. He looked into it. He analyzed the supplements and found out the company that he was working with decided to dilute their product to make a bigger profit, and he was so upset.

He obviously stopped telling his patients to use those, but he just didn’t know what to do because he couldn’t find the quality that he wanted to get the trace minerals and all the 90 essential nutrients for his patients. And then his family begged him to start their own company. He said, “I want to be helping people. I don’t want to be building a company or running a supplement company.” So his family begged him. “Okay, logistically, we’ll run the company. You keep working with people.” That’s over 22 years they’ve been doing that, but that’s the same story is companies will keep changing their supplements.

And also, with Kristen Bowen who has the magnesium soak that I love, she was getting amazing results with it and then the company overnight—her, and she actually had 200 people. She just kept telling people about it, telling people about it, and over 200 people that she became friends with were all using this magnesium soak. It’s concentrated or undiluted magnesium from the Zechstein Sea, and she reversed major health issues with it. And then out of nowhere, someone says, “It’s not working anymore.” And then she grabs an old bottle and a new bottle, takes it to a lab, and sure enough, the company started diluting it hugely to increase their profits.


[01:35:33] Tim James: This happens all the time. People that are listening, it’s not easy to step into the supplement business. I could see because I only did small batches for my coaching students. Now that things are expanding and the supplement thing is growing, it’s very difficult to compete because my raw material costs are through the roof. I build this stuff for my body and my coaching clients. I build this stuff for me. I want it to freaking be the best, the top of the pyramid. That’s what I want, and every time we build it, I go to the formulator. I’m like, “Look, I want to be the best.” Well, if I was to sell my greens at regular retail value, it’d be like $117 to $127 a jar. Most people can’t afford that.

I can’t really compete on the marketing because I don’t have this huge marketing budget because I’m not making an extra $60 a can or $50 a can on people on top of what I sell it for. It’s just numbers at that point. If I ever sell my company, probably don’t buy the products anymore. But we’re not going to do that. I’m going to put it in the bylaws. We’re family-owned, and it’ll be probably employee-owned. We’ll probably turn it over to the employees and they’ll be bylaws soon. The formulas have to stay the way they are, they will never change, and that kind of stuff so that after I’m dead and gone, it’ll still perpetuate. Because I have a lot of people, they have to have my stuff. Once they get on it, they’re progressing, they do not want to get off of it, so they get on auto-ship and they stay consistent with them.


[01:37:00] Ashley James: It has been such a pleasure having you on the show, Tim. I know you’ve got to go. Thank you so much. Do you have any final words that you’d like to say to our listeners to wrap up today’s interview?


[01:37:09] Tim James: Yeah, I do. I always like to end these talks with a challenge, and I would like you to challenge yourself to start putting yourself first—100% loving self. You have got to be first. I see this with men, and I see it with so many women, especially young mothers, mothers in general. They do everything for everybody. I mean taking care of the kids, washing the clothes, making the food, cleaning the house, trying to have a romantic life with the husband, and taking care of people. They put themselves last, they put their health last, and then eventually, a wheel falls off. Then they find themselves in the hospital with a nervous breakdown, they’re on anxiety medications, depression medications. They’re not happy and they’re not feeling good.

Well, the reality is you have to put yourself first if you truly love your children. You have to because they’re watching you, and monkey see, monkey do. Literally, do you want your children to follow your footsteps and be worn out, worn down, sick, tired, overweight, and all these problems that people have today? No. My people ask me, “What’s more important, you or your kids?” I’m like, “I’m more important.” And people think that I’m a jerk by saying that. I say, “Let me finish. If somebody shoots our way, I’m going to jump in front of my kids and take the bullet. Obviously, I love them unconditionally, but I put myself first because I want my children to put themselves first. And I’m going to lead by example.”

And I can tell you in my own life, it works. You lead by example, and what you’re doing by leading by example is giving other people permission, not that they will do it, but you give them permission and inspiration to do it for themselves. That’s all you can do. You can’t get people to do anything. I mean, you’ve probably experienced this. It’s hard. It’s like pushing a rope or trying to herd cats. Look at your husband. When he finally made the decision is when he changed, not when you wanted him to, when he wanted to. And the best way to do it, change yourself, that’s how you change your world.


[01:39:15] Ashley James: I love it. Thank you so much. It’s been such a pleasure having you on. You should definitely come back. I’d love to have you on and continue sharing and teaching. I love your mission and the work that you’re doing to help people to live happier, more vital lives. It’s wonderful. Thanks, Tim.


[01:39:35] Tim James: Thank you so much. Yeah, I’d love to come back. We could go deep on whatever you want. Also, on my website, my podcast is there too where people can find me on the Health Hero Show. That’s my podcast, and I go deep on some stuff like proper food combining and things like that.


[01:39:53] Ashley James: Absolutely. And the links to everything that Tim James does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at Thank you so much, Tim.

I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Tim James. Wasn’t his story amazing? I love it. I feel like all men should hear it, I mean women too, not excluding anyone, but men need to hear his journey. Because I think a lot of us, we can stop and go what symptoms have I been sweeping under the rug? What symptoms have I been writing off?

I have friends who take Advil every day because they have aches and pains. They just keep going, and like Tim said, if you’re sick, you have all these symptoms but it doesn’t stop you, it doesn’t stop you from doing your daily tasks, then it’s really easy to keep ignoring or keep self-medicating. That down the road is going to lead to bigger problems.

My mom died when she was 55. I was 21 years old, my mom died when she was 55, and she was the epitome of health. She was the healthiest person we knew. She exercised seven days a week. She ate incredibly clean. She took supplements, and she didn’t manage her stress levels. She ignored certain symptoms, and she died of cancer. My dad died of heart disease. These are diseases that when you listen to enough episodes, you gather that there are many diseases we’re dying of that are lifestyle diseases, that are caused by our choices.

I can’t get in a time machine and bring my parents back, but I can show you this information. Maybe we can share this information with your family members, with your friends, with your loved ones. Maybe we can save some of the loved ones in our life. Maybe you can help someone in your life to stop ignoring some of the health symptoms they have and do some simple changes to their diet or their lifestyle to help their body correct itself. We can extend the quality of our life. We can put years on our life by changing our diet, by changing certain health habits.

This is what we explore in this podcast, so keep listening. If you’re a new listener, subscribe. Please give us a five-star rating review. That helps our show get to more people. And then please, go back and listen to past episodes. The most current episodes are on iTunes, but we’re also on Spotify, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and Google Podcast is an app now. We’re on all those, and you can also go to All the episodes are on The most recent episodes, the most recent 100 or so, have been transcribed. You can even just read the transcripts. And you can use the search function on the website to find episodes about specific illnesses or correcting certain things, certain topics.

Please check out Tim James’ website and use the coupon code LTH. I invite you to try his green drink. I absolutely love it, and I’m very picky. It is organic. He sources the highest quality ingredients, and it is gluten-free. I had to make sure that myself. So, coupon code LTH.

Come join the Learn True Health Facebook group, it’s free. A great resource, great community there. Go to and check out all the resources there. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me. You can reach out to me on Facebook, or you can reach out to me through email [email protected]. I’d love to hear from you. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about.

If you have any suggestions for future topics, or if you are grasping at straws with your own health, I’m also a certified health coach, and I’ve been working with people for nine years. I’d love to help you as well. You can go to, and on the menu, there’s a section for working with me. You can also go to and fill out the form for a free consultation to see if we’d be great working together.

Excellent. Thank you so much for being a listener, and I can’t wait to meet you either on Facebook, through a phone call, or an email. I’d love for you to reach out. Just know that you’re not alone. We’re all in this together. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.


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