Eric Thorton And Ashley James


  • We need healers of all types
  • Heal our heart chakra issue to fight the virus
  • The immune system doesn’t work right when we have fear and anxiety
  • Eat right and support community
  • Fear is weak, and love is strong


Fear and anxiety have weakened our heart chakra over the years. When we have a weakened heart chakra, we have a lower immune system, and it’s harder for us to fight diseases. Eric Thorton is back on the show with us to help us understand how a weakened heart chakra relates to COVID-19 and how to get our heart chakra back in balance. He also tells us what we should do to eliminate the COVID-19 virus.


Image by Gerd Altmann from Pixabay 


[00:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 424. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Eric Thorton. This is your ninth time being on the show. I’m pretty sure this is your ninth time.


[00:00:23] Eric Thorton: Yeah, I think it is. It’s pretty amazing. I get a lot of great feedback from people too. I enjoy doing it. The guides have a lot to say, and that applies to us particularly right now.


[00:00:40] Ashley James: Right, right. So for listeners who are tuning in for the first time and haven’t heard our past eight other episodes with Eric Thorton, Eric is an exorcist. He was born with the ability to talk to and see—communicate with angels and guides. He is a spiritual—it’s like a spiritual health coach. I’m a health coach, you’re a spiritual health coach.


[00:01:09] Eric Thorton: That’s right, and a healer.


[00:01:12] Ashley James: Right, yes. I like to say on the show, “I’m the biggest open-minded skeptic.” I’m like okay anything. I could just keep my mind wide open, why not? Why not just be open-minded, but I’m also very skeptical. Our first interview was really cool, but there’s the back of my mind going, “Well, maybe it’s just him saying he’s doing this stuff.” My husband had a session with you before I had a session, right? My husband was going through something and so he said, “Can I go first?” I’m like, “Okay. So I dropped my husband off, he works with you for a few hours, and I came and picked him up. His voice dropped like two octaves. It was really neat. It was very interesting.

He was in constant background anxiety, constant fear, constant worry was running in his body at all times. His voice was a little high. The things you guys worked on spiritually and energetically turned off the stress response and it healed. Whatever you did that was like, I don’t know, six months ago, eight months ago, something like that. He had a great first session. Then I had my session with you, and I had an outstanding totally undeniably amazing session. Really, really, really got that the work that you do is real. I had first-hand experience of it several times. Since then, my husband and I have worked with you several times, and you’ve also worked with several of our best friends. They have all had great experiences with you. This is something that not every therapist is meant for every person.


[00:03:13] Eric Thorton: Correct.


[00:03:15] Ashley James: That’s why you do an intake at the beginning when you work with people, and you talk to the guides, and talk to their guides, and see if it’s a good match. The work that you do is so broad because you’re working on emotional, mental, spiritual, physical issues on a different plane of existence that we’re used to handling things on. It’s the unseen, but we definitely have an effect. We can feel it. Sometimes we can hear it. I’ve talked about that in my past interviews. We can feel it.


[00:03:49] Eric Thorton: Right, it’s also helped past lives and how past lives affect us too. It gives us stressors and makes us vulnerable to take you on other people’s words, energies, thought forms, etc. We work on a very different level than most healers. I’m not invalidating anyone here. It’s just the levels we work on are different. We need healers of all types. It takes a village. I am very, very open-minded and encourage everybody to, you got a problem, find your village. If I’m a part of it, great. If I’m not, that’s fine too.

Sometimes my job is to unlock one little key in someone. They may not be really happy with the session, but then they go on to another healer and it works.


[00:04:54] Ashley James: Because you untrapped things, you got things moving. You removed blockages that were stopping them, and then other things can work. My son all of a sudden developed some very weird allergies out of nowhere. I asked you to check on him and you received the information that he had activated some trauma from a past life, and it made total sense as to what he was experiencing now. We were able to work on that for him. I’ve been taking him to doctor after doctor after doctor, and of course, these doctors are looking at what medication—either a natural medication like homeopathy, and what herbs, and what vitamins can we give him, what things can we do with his diet? Then an MD is like, “What drug can we give him?”

Of course, we want to obviously look at physical health on the physical plane. It’s not resolving if the root cause is in the spiritual and energetic realm. You’ve mentioned before on the show is that—for thousands and thousands of thousands of years—we used to have healers like you in every village—the shaman, or the priest, or the energy healer. In the last 500 years, it’s really been suppressed. Our power’s been taken away. Now, the healers are starting to pop back up because information is free now. We’re not suppressed like we were 100 years ago. Information is free.


[00:06:41] Eric Thorton: In our country, be careful. We got to remember that. It is in our country. We still have a lot of persecution and things in our country. The beautiful part is, science has helped us in many ways. It has taken us from burning people at the stake because a cow or a series of animals had mad cow disease or something that they didn’t know. There were these tiny microscopic bacteria so they blamed the person and called him a witch or something like that. It’s taken the mystical out of our lives, and so we can actually get to healing, and get to understanding, and full understanding of what’s going on the planet—or a much fuller understanding—so that we can look at it as a whole.

Where we go—I feel we go wrong—as a race is we try to say ours is the only way. Western medicine, it’s only this way. Naturopathic, it’s only this way, etc. I’m here to say, “No, it’s all of it. There are benefits to all of it.” If you have a block in any of them—let’s say you’re allergic to a medication that a Western medicine person can’t give you, it isn’t going to work. You’re allergic to it. If you got something that’s causing you to be allergic to it that’s energetic and we remove it, all of a sudden the medication works. That goes for Naturopathic, that goes for acupuncture, Reiki, on and on and on, all modalities.

That’s why I’m very much encouraged all kinds of village to help people heal. Maybe with your son, us removing that block made it so his body can heal, can look at it in a different way, and the Naturopath can help him where maybe they couldn’t have before. He was young so hopefully, we were able to reduce his allergies quite quickly, but like I said, I haven’t talked to you about that until now. Anyway, there are many, many things that go into our daily lives. It is not one single modality. When I’m talking, like today, I sometimes will use information quoting somebody, but most of it’s coming from my guides. I quantify that. I do not diagnose, I do not claim to know the whole truth in any way, shape, or form.

These are ideas that I get from my guides. The work seems to be proven out by science or an end results, that’s what I like. Like with what’s going on today, there are many, many reasons energetically why we are weak and susceptible to the COVID-19 virus. There are many reasons. Today, I want to like to discuss a few of those.


[00:10:06] Ashley James: Sure, sure. There are people on both sides of the fence right now. In terms of the COVID-19, there are people who are demanding that our rights be taken away, that we have more restrictions on us, that we should become even stricter to force people to stay at home nationwide and in other countries as well. There are people who want martial law essentially because we have to stop the spread. There’s this school of thought, and then there’s another set of people who are upset that our rights are being taken away. That no one’s protesting that, and they believe that this is hurting more people than saving people by forcing people to stay home and shutting down businesses.

We have both sides, right? Then you see there are so many articles out there with opposing views, with information that conflicts itself. Some say that the common flu, influenza—Influenza A, whatever influenza it is—more people die each year of that. “Why don’t we take these kinds of measures for influenza if more people die of that than the coronavirus?” That’s what they’re saying, and then other people are saying, “Well, look at the rate at which it spreads. It’s much, much, much faster.”

I think it’s like almost 10% more, but they’re showing that you’re much more likely to be infected by the coronavirus. It spreads quicker, it has a higher death rate, but the numbers—the problem is—there’s not enough testing. There’s definitely not enough testing. Studies today or articles written by doctors today talking about how they believe—and this was like in Yahoo News or something, this is mainstream. This isn’t just someone somewhere saying this in a blog. There’s a belief that millions of people have had it, and are already immune to it, and this has actually been around a lot longer—the COVID-19 has been around a lot longer.

Anyway, there’s so much opposing information. I don’t necessarily want to say disinformation because I think that there’s a lot of people trying to pull together very quickly, because this is happening very fast. It was March 8 in the state of Washington, all of the bars and restaurants were shut down. This is just a few weeks ago that my state was starting to take action. The government was starting to implement actions, so things were starting to crack down and get serious just a few weeks ago. We’re scrambling to try to make sense of the numbers because the death rates, Italy being the highest, something like 9% now, I just read in an article, whereas a few days ago they were saying it was 4% death rate.

If we’re not interesting enough people, we’re not testing, we’re only testing the people who are sick. What if millions or more people actually had it and just didn’t have it so it wasn’t really severe? Again, we want every death to be prevented. I’m not saying that we should just all go about our business. The point is that lots of information, lots of conflict, and it’s a stressor. Again, because society has something to fight about and to shame each other for. One of my friends is really afraid to leave her house and go for a walk because she doesn’t want her neighbors to be angry at her because people are actually being angry at each other for being outside.

You are not going to spread the virus if you’re going for a walk. That’s not how it works. You’re going for a walk in nature, you’re in sunlight, that’s actually recommended. The misinformation, people are taking it to the extreme. What I’d like is just to cover, gain some clarity. What information have you received or can you receive from your guides, from angels, from the spiritual realm that can help us to understand. What could we do? What could we do to create the Goldilocks effect? Should we all stay in our homes? Is this something we should be really worried about? Is this going to blow over like the H1N1, and Zika, and all those other ones where it gets really big and then blows away? Is it worse than we’re thinking, or is it not as bad as we’re thinking? What information are you receiving from the spiritual realm?


[00:15:37] Eric Thorton: I’m working with a number of people that have been exposed but not have it. Some people have it. The information I get from the guides is the reason this virus has taken such a large hold—and it is real. We do need to take care, but we need to not panic. The reason we’re panicking and in ego is because of the years we’ve had of heart chakra issues. This is what the guides have pointed out very clearly to me—a number of times with a number of different guides too—is for the last three and a half years, we have had a tremendous amount of political unrest.

I’m not siding with either side—both sides in our country have problems—but there has been so much political unrest. We were through 9/11, which directly affected the heart chakras. We were through the 2007-2008 crash, which directly affected our safety which affects our heart chakras. Now, remember, the heart chakra concludes the lungs. We go through these cycles where we are informed, misinformed, things like that through the news media through our own interpretations of what is being said out there. That affects us and give us anxiety. Remember, anxiety is in the heart chakra. After this three and a half, four years of this, our heart chakras are like with any chakra—if it was affected that much—the physical tissue within that chakra becomes weaker.

We’ve had this political unrest for all these years. I don’t care which side of the aisle you’re on, you got the political unrest, so our heart chakras are weak. Any virus would affect our lungs very easily. Because we’ve been under this stress and this anxiety, it hasn’t led up. Now we’re in the middle of a political campaign, and all this crap that’s coming out in that—and excuse me I’m using word crap loosely here.


[00:18:13] Ashley James: It’s a technical term.


[00:18:16] Eric Thorton: It’s a technical term describing a whole lot of things that I don’t need to discuss right now, right? It’s their agendas, and it keeps us all in turmoil, and then this hits. It’s not a man-made virus. The coronavirus has the CDC it’s very clear that it’s been in animals in the United States for the last 20 years. It started transferring—just as though it’s what the CDC said—and it was proven out by what’s occurred, which I’m just going to go quickly with this. That it started to transfer from animal to human. That’s generally not a problem—at least through history.

In history, you have an animal that’s sick, it dies. We try to keep the animal alive, we keep them in herds, the disease spreads within their herds because we eat meat. Animal husbandry is what keeps the animals together, which keeps viruses together, which builds the viruses within the animals. That also includes parasites which is something else we’ll talk about later as well, other diseases. The virus has been there just like every other virus we’ve ever had. Neanderthal Homo Erectus had no viruses. They had bacterial infections from the earth things like that, but they had no viruses. They died from bacteria from getting cuts just like a leopard would or a giraffe.

If they got a big cut, they would from the abscess, or die from malnutrition, or starvation because they couldn’t get food at the time. That’s what killed them. Today, we keep animals in groups. It’s been proven—beyond any shadow of a doubt—that eating animal flesh, there’s a little bit of benefit to eating a little bit some people, but most of us animal flesh causes 180 of our major diseases. Then all these viruses: the bird flu, the avian flu, all the measles, all of polio, things like that all coming from eating animals. Just saying, I’ve been shown that we should be reducing that to keep the health of the planet going.


[00:20:51] Ashley James: When you say the health of the planet, it’s not just pollution or global warming stuff agenda. The spread of viruses is from animal husbandry.


[00:21:04] Eric Thorton: Right, when it’s a problem, the way Western medicine looks at it, when the virus transfers to a human, they better get a vaccine. Now, vaccines have their problems. I don’t want to discuss that here right now, but when it goes from an animal to human, that’s when they start doing the research. When it transfers from one human then to another human, that’s when we get a problem. They started studying the coronavirus and doing work at the UW that’s called the Kaiser Permanente Lab and the CDC lab in Shoreline, as well as all around the world. The pandemic organization within the CDCs around the world, tell people when these viruses have transferred to a human, so they can all work together to create a vaccine. Well, it happened.

In our country, which is a major amount of money goes to this, generally speaking. It was being done at the University of Washington here in Seattle at the Kaiser Permanente—what’s called now Kaiser Permanente Lab—because they’re funding and they’re paying for the sign on the outside. I don’t know what it is. When number 45 became president, they were ready to test the vaccine on humans. They also had that massive ability to build good quality testing for mass quantity testing ready to go as well. They put that, and then they lost the funding, and it shut down completely.

Within a week of March 8, if you recall, the UW Lab announced that they were, it was within 10 days, that they had announced that they were revamping this thing that had been on nitrogen—this vaccine. Within a few days, they were testing it on people.


[00:23:30] Ashley James: They didn’t just invent it, they invented it a while ago.


[00:23:33] Eric Thorton: No, they had it. They invented it when Trump was going coming off this 2012 or what? No, this is 2019 so it was to 2016, it’s when they lost their funding. So it was just sitting there on ice ready to go, and now it’s going. It takes years to develop a virus to get it to the point of being able to try it out on humans.


[00:23:58] Ashley James: You mean a vaccine?


[00:23:59] Eric Thorton: A vaccine, excuse me. To try it on. You’re right. They were already doing it because it was sitting there on ice because the money was taken away. They’re trying it. It takes at least a year studying it to see if it does harm, or how much to do, and how much to give people? Again, vaccines aren’t the greatest thing in the world, but if a bunch of people gets the vaccine and it stops the virus, then it protects everybody. Now, ethically, there’s a whole lot of questions about that, and there are other ways of creating vaccines rather than having heavy metals in them. That’s proven by other countries of the world, but it’s still—if we had a vaccine—it would help slow this. We don’t have the vaccine so we have to keep apart.

We don’t have a way of stopping it yet for a large portion of the population whether you agree with vaccines or not, have one yourself or not. A lot of people do, and they do work very well. They can cause other things too—again, I don’t want to talk about that right now, but they do work.

There’s a threshold—and I forget the name of it, and I’m not going to recall it right now—of the amount of people that need to be vaccinated in order to stop like TB, or measles, or the chickenpox, or whatever else. There has to be a percentage, and they’ve got to figure it out. It’s like measles is highly contagious so 93% of the population—they figure—should be vaccinated in order to get rid of the measles around the whole planet. I believe it was polio they needed 70% of the population vaccinated to get the same effect. So different things, different diseases require different amounts of the population to have these vaccines.

Do I wish they made the vaccines better? You bet you. Didn’t put the heavy metals in them big time, but we don’t have that now. The virus is out there. It is irrelevant where it came from at this point. It is irrelevant—in my opinion—who started, who’s blaming, this and that and the other. If we can get out of our ego and get our heart chakra back balanced, we’re not going to fight this. The only way to fight a pandemic—if you don’t have medicine for it—is to not spread it. When our heart chakras out of balance, our integrity goes out of balance, our anxiety goes up. Like you said, your friend won’t go out of the house. Well, why not? It’s because she’s full of anxiety, and so her integrity is out of balance. Then someone says something and their brain is going to fill in the blanks and turn it into—let’s say someone says, “You need to be 40 feet from somebody to not get it.”

Well, a person full of anxiety is going to go, “Oh my god. It’s got to be 40 feet wait,” and they’re going to take that as God’s truth. Yet it’s just hearsay. We got the younger generations. Younger generations will be listening to this. Well, frankly our generations too. We’ve been spoiled by our own work, our own efforts, our own technologies, etc., and we don’t like to give them up. So people sit there and go, “I don’t want to do that. It sounds all about me.”

The more anxiety we have the more it’s about me. We’ve had this three-four year build-up of anxiety, and this is like a big fat cherry right on top of a sundae of anxiety. The anxiety they’re having—I have noticed, and the guides have said—this is from the political agendas around the world, and the disruption to the matrix of the human matrix around the planet. They’ve shown me—very clearly on many people through the years, not just with this—that when we have anxiety our immune system goes down. This is also proven scientifically. You can go look it up. I’m not going to quote anything right now because there’s so much proof with that.

When we have anxiety, the immune system doesn’t work right. Our adrenaline is through the roof. Our endorphins are low because we have so much adrenaline that’s firing off to get the hormone cycles. We need a dopamine that it doesn’t come through joy. When you get the hormone cycles through joy, the end result is endorphins, which kill viruses, kill bacteria, kill funguses, kill cancer, but when we get our hormones through the adrenal cycle, we get very little endorphins. Those endorphins are part of our defense system. Then, also, anxiety makes us digest food wrong. When we digest food wrong or we eat the wrong food—as many people participate in as looking at the grocery stores today—we eat junk food, our immune systems can’t operate correctly.

It’s interesting, everybody knows—because of many things in my life—I became whole food plant-based and learned a great deal about it, and I promote that because it is the only major science on nutrition. I go to the grocery store these days, and you look through the stores because there are so many people that are hoarding, the shelves are empty of all the junk. You go over to the produce department, it’s full. That’s what we need to eat to kill the viruses.


[00:30:24] Ashley James: Yeah, I just did a two and half hour interview with a really good Naturopathic physician, and we talked about that. We talked about exactly what you can do to prevent, I don’t want to say prevent getting it, but it’s how can you set your body up for success so you can be the 80% of the population that is asymptomatic. That will get the virus and have zero symptoms, and the body mounts a response, the immune system figures out its antibodies, figures it out, kills the virus, gets it out of your system, and you’re done. Now, your immune system knows what to do when the virus comes back around. It knows exactly what to do.

The 80% of the people out there that are completely asymptomatic are not deficient in zinc, are not deficient in vitamin C, are not deficient in vitamin D, are not at high, high, high cortisol stress, are not sleep-deprived, or eating a balanced diet. They’re taking care of their body—they’re the ones eating the nine cups of fruits and vegetables a day, or taking some vitamins.

He talked about exactly what we can do to build our health from the ground up. His first thing, the number one most important thing you should do is a whole food plant-based diet to support the immune system. He says it’s absolutely the most protective. Out of all the diets out there, it’s the most protective of the immune system. He is not against using other diets therapeutically, for example, like a green ketogenic diet or whatever. He uses other diets for specific people, specific instances, but in the general broad, if you want to build your immune system, whole food plant-based no processed food, so no sugar, no processed.

Image by Jill Wellington from Pixabay 


[00:32:25] Eric Thorton: No processed foods, no sugar, no oil. No oil, no meat. No oil outside of what’s in fruits and vegetables and they’re full of oil.


[00:32:35] Ashley James: Nuts, and seeds, and legumes, and whole grains.


[00:32:40] Eric Thorton: Right, right. It’s because these items are God-given and antioxidants. That’s where we get them from. When you get them in whole food, your body uses them better. Yes, you can get them in supplements, but the body can’t use them as well as if you get your zinc from your spinach.


[00:33:04] Ashley James: The thing is though—I agree with you—and with one exception. One caveat is minerals are hard to make sure that you get enough because if that spinach has grown in soil that’s low in zinc, you’re not going to get the adequate amount of daily zinc. If you eat a variety of fruits and vegetables every day, and a variety of color, and you’re eating nine cups of fruits and vegetables, you’re definitely getting 1000 different phytochemicals, you’re getting lots of vitamins. In these times of uncertainty, you could definitely fill in the gaps. Supplements are like the mortar food is the bricks, you can fill in the gaps with some minerals, take some zinc. You can also go to a Naturopath. There are some lab tests you can do. There is an interesting way of telling if you’re mineral deficient. There are certain symptoms we have that are really easy, but if you’re eating a whole food plant-based diet, there are very few people that end up being deficient in nutrients.


[00:34:12] Eric Thorton: Yeah. As you know I recommend vitamin patches for that very reason especially in the wintertime. Our fruits and vegetables have been sitting around oxidizing for weeks oftentimes. The minerals and stuff rust away basically. Yes, you need those. At this time, add a supplement or two, but if we put too many supplements in us that overloads the kidneys and liver, and that causes problems. That lowers our immune system. That’s why I particularly recommend vitamin patches where a lot of other people will do it in pill form, which is fine too.

I have noticed when it goes through the skin, our bodies use it better. That I’ve noticed in the blood testing that Naturopaths do that it actually raises the blood levels of these essential nutrients because most people’s digestive systems can’t handle a major influx where a vitamin patch gives it to you a little bit all day long, and it doesn’t go through the stomach and the intestine, so it’s a little easier on us.

I work with a lot of very sensitive people though, and that’s why I don’t want to say don’t take vitamin pills. Because I work with sensitive people, a lot of their bodies have been overwhelmed for so long they can’t these vitamins anymore, but the patches work well for them because they’re soft and they’re very gentle. I don’t want to poo-poo anything else. It’s just the population I work with sometimes the patches work better for them.

I’ve been very much shown that the end result of all of this chaos has been the very much weakened chakras and weakened immune systems. Our work, we dumped this chaos that each individual has. You’ve heard me call it on your shows before—wheelbarrow loads of things we’re hanging on to. That lowers the stress on the body and the immune system picks up. Oftentimes, people—after work here—will go into what’s called herxing, which is when the body starts to detox and it starts to feel a little bit sick because the immune system is actually working better.

It takes a few days, and the body’s, immune system is working, getting rid of these toxins, so they can fight off new ones. Whenever you relieve a load on anybody for anything, the body can repair itself. If you have less anxiety from energy in your energy field, you’re going to sleep better. You’re also going to process food better. You’re going to process your ego better if you’re not in anxiety. You will learn to turn off a lot of this hearsay. Today, I heard somebody say, “If you eat lots of ginger all day long you’ll never get the coronavirus.”


[00:37:40] Ashley James: I got a text today from one of my friends saying, “The Russians have solved it. They eat ginger all day long, and they don’t have the coronavirus.” There’s so much misinformation going on.


[00:37:51] Eric Thorton: Right. There’s another one the other day. It’s basically saying along that same lines, and this part of it is actually true, “If you are constantly salivating and swallowing, if you’re drinking lots of fluids, when the coronavirus, if it gets in our mouth, not our eyes, but if it gets in our mouth we then swallow it, and it gets killed by the stomach acid.” If you’re eating ginger all day long, it’s going to make you salivate. If you do get it in your mouth, ginger is an antiviral, and it makes you salivate because it’s very powerful. Then you’re going to swallow it, it’s going to get killed in your stomach acid, but it’s not going to solve it coming through your eyes or your skin.

These are hearsays that are out there that there may be an inkling of truth to it, but we add our own. “Oh my god. Everyone run and get ginger.” Well, you could just have a glass of water. Sip on water all day long, or a little nice tea, anything to keep your moisture moving in your mouth to prevent it from entering your system through your mouth. All this information is causing this chaos. This is one of the interesting things that the guides were really big on talking about today, and I don’t know how this will work out, but they showed me when I was doing some healing work on myself with my assistant and friend Judy, lovely gifted person.

 They showed me what the new-age calls the matrix, which is the energy generated by all humans that is circling in on the planet at all times. Psychics can reach into this information and get intuition about different people in different places. People who do remote viewing use the matrix to view places that are of distance. I can sit here, and tap into the matrix, and feel the chaos of the whole planet. I teach people about the points of pathology so they learn to shut this down. In this matrix, it is so chaotic that it can’t heal itself at this point. What that means, the way they explained it to me is like this, if you take—I used the example with you earlier, what do they call this soybean stuff. Put a mark on this.


[00:41:02] Ashley James: Tofu.


[00:41:03] Eric Thorton: Tofu. You scramble it up in a blender, and you put it back in the dish, and you just let it sit, it’s going to make itself solid again. It’ll make itself solid in an entirely different arrangement even though it looks the same. Any bacteria that have been in it have been disrupted. The tofu can actually last longer in your refrigerator or on your counter because the bacteria, and viruses, and things like that deteriorate the tofu has now been completely disrupted, and yet the tofu has reassembled itself in a healthier place. I’m looking at that I’m going, “Ah, the energy of disruption.” Another friend showed me there are dowsing rods that are called disruption laws. You use them around people or animals and it can disrupt their energy field, and it’ll reset itself, and they can get over diseases. They’re saying, we need to do this as a planet.


[00:42:10] Ashley James: Your guides are saying we need to do this as a planet?


[00:44:58] Eric Thorton: As a planet, we need to scramble the matrix—whatever that looks like—and let it reset itself so that it can heal. They pointed out to me, we’re all trying to—healers of all sorts around the world, and intentions, the gift of petition, prayers, things like that—are all trying to help heal someone through our own personal point of view, our own cognitive biases. Some people think you need Jesus to heal, some people think you need chlorophyll to heal so they’re going to send chlorophyll, some say you got to send some aconite the palace in a homeopath, some people think you need steak to heal, some people you need the prayer of a thousand people, the power of eight, the this or that, or the other, which is all harnessing thought and sending it. Biblically, it’s called the gifts of petition. You’re asking for healing, but you’re asking through your own agendas. We can’t help it, we’re human.

Where Gaia, the planet, has this amazing ability to heal itself, but the human matrix above the planet is now so full of anxiety from these years of disruption and unrest that it’s not able to organize itself and to disrupt some of these viruses. What they’ve said is basically we need to ask people to put the effort out, in their mindset, throughout many times throughout the day. If we could do it in sequence at night like at 9:00 PM every night throughout each time zone throughout the planet. That everybody who hears this or words pass, at that moment, they astral travel if they travel, put the intention out of scrambling the atmosphere.

It’s not going to scramble physically, but what they’re saying is it’s scrambling the energetics, so it will reorganize itself like the tofu did, comes out looking the same, but all the viruses and bacteria have been disrupted, and the levels can then start to fall. I don’t know what that looks like.


[00:44:57] Ashley James: Can you ask them?


[00:44:59] Eric Thorton: I don’t know what it looks like in that how people will play it out. How it would look like if everybody did this is the coronavirus would then be susceptible to the energy of Gaia killing it.


[00:45:18] Ashley James: What’s protecting the coronavirus from not being susceptible to dying off like it should?


[00:45:26] Eric Thorton: Ego.


[00:45:28] Ashley James: What do you mean?


[00:45:29] Eric Thorton: When we’re all in anxiety, that’s a state of ego, and we’re putting out all this fear into the matrix. So that’s what we’re going to manifest. It’s literally called manifesting. You put out fear, you put out anxiety, you’re going to manifest the reasons for fear and anxiety.


[00:45:51] Ashley James: The fear and anxiety that we’ve had mounting up globally for the last 20 years are manifesting plagues, our collective mass hysteria is manifesting pandemics?


[00:46:16] Eric Thorton: Right. That’s what they’re telling us.


[00:46:17] Ashley James: I like to mention the power of 8 because I just interviewed the author of that recently, and we started a power of 8 group. Any listeners who want to join, go to the Learn True Health Facebook group. We started a group, and we’ve done two little groups together so far. It’s really cool. There’s eight of us or whatever, and we all come up with one thing to focus on for 10 minutes for one of the people in the group. Then we discuss the results. We all have a very similar experience, and the person really feels it. There’s only a handful of people that are focusing the same intention, so we’re all focusing the same intention for that person, and that person is getting results. One woman has MS, and she started feeling tingling, she started feeling sensations. Another woman has had a really chronic, a really bad sinus infection. She started to feel her head, warmth, and energy, and things were clearing.


[00:47:24] Eric Thorton: How hard was it to get eight people or however many you had to even be quiet for ten minutes?


[00:47:32] Ashley James: We have a few thousand people in the Facebook group, but only eight out of the few thousand decided that they wanted to join. Maybe the timing was off or whatever. Very small percentage of people will sit down for 10 minutes and do a collective thought experiment.


[00:47:56] Eric Thorton: The guides are saying the same type of thing.


[00:47:58] Ashley James: If you could get a small percentage of people to all—


[00:48:03] Eric Thorton: To all scramble this matrix—it’s an imaginative thing, I know that—but put the intention of scrambling the energy on the planet, it can then reorganize, and see, and it’s very similar to the power of eight. Humans are very hard to actually put their intention for any length of time together, but when we do, it’s amazing.


[00:48:34] Ashley James: It is, it’s absolutely amazing. She did experiments and they were able to—long-distance—make plants go more. They were doing it in universities. They had universities plant a bunch of seeds and then labeled them seed A, seed B. The universities all watered them the exact same, treated them all the exact same. They didn’t know which ones the intentions were being sent to, but 100% of the time, the ones that were getting the intentions from the groups were growing exponentially more.

Then they also sent negative intentions to some seeds. They did not do as well as the controls. They also did experiments where they would get a group of people and send good intentions, and then send a bad intention, then a good intention, then a bad intention. The students were reporting the findings, and sure enough, it was a zigzag: good then bad then good then bad. This is part of quantum physics.

Quantum physics is trying to explain this. I love the movie What the Bleep Do We Know because it goes into this in a fun way. Kids can watch What the Bleep Do We Know. Your whole family can watch it. It came out in the early 2000s. What the Bleep Do We Know, definitely get that movie because it connects spirituality with quantum physics, with science. They’re trying to explain how we actually do as humans with our intention, with our emotions, where we focus our intention and attention. That we affect our physical reality, but we also affect—like you call it—the matrix. We’re tapping into the—


[00:50:32] Eric Thorton: Unconscious collective.


[00:50:33] Ashley James: Unconscious collective. Yeah. That energy net that we can tap into. Even though we think we’re physically apart, we’re connected. We’re all really, really connected. We’re all driving blindfolded like we don’t know that we’re driving and we’re just running around, so we’re creating chaos when we could be creating harmony by harnessing our gifts.


[00:51:09] Eric Thorton: I mentioned it earlier, when 9/11 happened, like anybody else, I was shocked. It really hit the heart chakra. I said to my guides—I don’t impose anything I do on anybody, I wait for guidance. I don’t think it’s ethically right to look into anybody’s energy field to help out. I think the universe has plenty of help. If they want the etheric energy of somebody to anchor something or the astral energy, they can ask, and that’s what healers are for. When 9/11 happened I said, “If you need some help somehow over there—I can’t imagine how you would need help—I’m happy to help out whatever you guys say.”

About four days after the tragedy they said, “Eric, what’s going on over there?” I said, “Really?” They go, “Yeah.” We astral travel. We’re above the area, and they told me just to observe. I sat there and I observed. I was seeing all of these wonderful intentions from all these healers. People praying for the aid workers, for the people that have died, for their families, for all this stuff, and helping to move people to the other side. I sat there and I just went—I had this huge realization. I was watching all this wonderful intention cause complete chaos. All this intention—a lot of your listeners are going to go, “Huh?” But people have guides and angels. When we die, they’re there for us. It doesn’t require a healer to help you to the other side.

If you’re not going to go to the other side it’s an egoic issue. That would be a ghost, and it can go on to other things, which is another subject. It doesn’t require the matrix if you will. The universe knows how to do this. All of these people with these wonderful intentions were actually making people—the aid workers, the firefighters, etc.—more tired. They were actually holding back souls from moving on because, no you have to do it my way, the Catholic way, the Presbyterian way, the new-age way, then whatever, it has to be my way. Yet the universe has been doing this for trillions of years, but somehow the egos of people sit here and, “It must be my way.”

This is what the guides are pointing out is happening now. We’ve got so much chaos. It can’t organize and help stop the virus from spreading and help calm down the anxieties of the individuals. It’s building up and building up and building up, and we fill in our own blanks. I mentioned a book to you earlier which I’ll mention now because it’ll be a terrific interview for you. It’s called Nerosculpting for Anxiety and we had talked about this. She points out how we fill in the blanks of partial information, and we swear it’s God’s truth.

For example, if you have a crowd and you make some statements that are odd or not complete, and you put it out into a crowd—whether the crowd is together or the crowd is individual around the planet—you make a statement that is not like—you say some beautiful statement that your intention is for. I’m trying to think of an example. We talked about one with something I read to you earlier about how the virus is a great equalizer, well it’s not, but it sounds beautiful. People will read into it, “Oh, yes. We’re the same as rich people,” except it didn’t say that. The statement didn’t say that we’re the same as rich people. It was a great equalizer. There’s a lot of celebrities and stuff that have gotten the coronavirus. Well, they get to afford a whole bunch of care, but the poorer people don’t. It’s not a good equalizer, it’s a divider, but we read into the statement made by a very famous person, “Oh, that’s so sweet and lovely.” We filled it in.

Our brains consciously—when we are in fear—think one in two-dimensionally. We fill in the blanks consciously that are not there. You have a crowd, you make a partial statement, and the crowd is seated with people to say words. I don’t want to get into the political agendas and stuff like that now, but they plant words out there or they make a statement, “Oh, yeah. He means this,” and everyone goes, “Yeah, he means that. Yes, he means that. He’s wonderful,” and he didn’t do anything. He or she makes a partial statement.

We do this more when we are in anxiety. We sit here and we go, “Okay, eat ginger. Oh, that’ll cure it. Quick, everybody run and get ginger.” Where the statement, “Eating ginger cures the coronavirus,” isn’t proven by anything. What’s proven is if you keep your mouth moist, and you keep swallowing, if the coronavirus goes in your mouth, it goes down into the stomach acid and gets killed, but it can still come through your eyes. Everyone figured, “Oh, it’ll cure if I eat ginger.” Well, this just makes it all day so you don’t get it through your mouth, but you can still get it through your eyes, and skin, and through your nose.

We filled in the answer, and it was untrue, or it was a partial truth. The news, the political agendas, we’re all doing this, and it’s causing us more and more conflict, more and more information in the matrix, and more and more anxiety, which is also going into the matrix, weakening our heart chakras, and taking our defense systems down. Our personal defense systems and Gaia’s defense systems are down. The guides are asking everybody, I would put it at each time zone at 9:00 PM, start doing the intention of scrambling the matrix, and let’s see what happens in a week. If nobody does it, maybe nothing will happen. Maybe if 80,000, or 200,000, or 1 million people get a hold of this thing, maybe it’ll change it. It’s worth a try. It gets people to focus—like with the power of eight—on one thing.

I’ve worked with you in another situation with the power of eight and got some great benefits from it. It’s difficult to focus. It’s difficult to get people to even do anything. Except these days, rushing for toilet paper. I get a kick out of that one. Anyway. I’m putting it out there, 9:00 PM every time zone all the way around the planet. Everyone work at scrambling. However, you think you can, scrambling the matrix so it can reset itself. Let’s see what happens.


[00:59:57] Ashley James: That’s what the guides showed you?


Image by Aline Ponce from Pixabay 


1:00:00] Eric Thorton: That’s what the guide showed me. They also showed many other ways that our immune systems are dramatically affected. We’d already talked about meat and oil. We tried to have another conversation before about parasites, chemicals in our bodies, food probiotics, and the signals they give us that keep our immune systems from functioning correctly. 

There are so many chemicals in the environment that the parasites and things like that have actually gotten out of hand. Chemicals generally don’t kill parasites, and we eat parasites, we breathe parasites, and viruses, and bacteria. Our body generally takes care of them, but when they get overloaded, our bodies can’t do a good job. 

Our bodies are alive because of symbiotic relationships with what we call beneficial parasites. If we ate naturally, which would be more along the lines of what we already discussed—whole food plant base—we get fewer chemicals in us because of whole food plant-based. We should be eating organic—if you can possibly afford it—but also the chlorophyll in things help remove pesticides and such from our bodies—amongst many other things. 

Eating proper minerals, like we discussed, help remove toxins from the bodies. But we get parasites and all that stuff. In North America, we get most of the parasites from our fruits, and vegetables, and from meat. We get loaded up with them. As you move to the warmer climates you get more and more parasites that come in through the water, and through the air, from bugs lining on us, planting their eggs in us, and things like that.

Well, these are problems for us because each parasite—when it gets hungry just like humans or if you ever watched a cat get hungry—they start getting aggressive, and they start running around. They’re giving you a signal to feed them. Well, scientifically, they have proven this. I’ve looked it up one time. There are tens of thousands of studies on the biochemical signals that a parasite gives you to feed it. 

Let’s say you get a parasite from a cow from eating beef, and the parasite’s running out of cow to eat. It’s going to send a signal that it’s hungry. It’s like a dog that’s trained to tell someone they’re going to have a grand mal seizure because this dog can smell it. Your body is starting to give off a biochemical signal that a dog can smell. This is how animals become service animals because they’re trained to react to these smells.

Parasites do the same thing. They give off these biochemical signals, they go to our brain, and they say, “Eat more meat.” If you quit eating the meat, the parasites die. It takes a number of months. Then all of a sudden you eat meat and it tastes like ugh. I’m not a hypocrite. I thought meat tasted great. Now, I taste meat and it tastes like, “Ugh. I don’t really need that anymore.” I don’t have anything in me giving me the signal to eat the meat. 

Well, if you take things like sugar. Sugar ups your anaerobic probiotics. The anaerobic probiotics, I suppose to be between 10% and 20% of our probiotics, preferably around 10%. The more sugary things you eat or eat processed food, the more that those anaerobic probiotics get to eat, so their numbers go higher and higher and higher. Those probiotics are alive like a parasite. When they get hungry, they tell you to eat more of the food that they want themselves. They tell you to eat more sugar, more junk food, go to the places to get the things that feed the anaerobic bacteria. You can look at most of your grocery stores full of the things that eat that because it gives us cravings and we buy more.

Once you’ve been off of these foods, the anaerobic bacteria goes down, the quantities go down, so your cravings go down. There’s a book called The Pleasure Trap by Dr. Goldhammer that explains these biochemical signals that our own probiotics give us and parasites give us to eat the food that keeps us sick. When you stop eating these foods, the anaerobic probiotics levels go down. 

They talked about, in the movie Game-Changer, what meat does to our vascular system. As long as you’re eating that meat, it rots, you don’t digest it very quickly, so it starts to rot in your intestine. The rotting meat is what the anaerobic bacteria eat. They’ll eat the rotting meat so you do eventually digest it, but the anaerobic bacteria has gone way up in numbers. Now you’re low on meat and it asks for more, so then you crave meat. When you’re craving meat and oils, it kills the aerobic bacteria. It smothers it like if you take an apple and you wash it underwater, the water beads up. If you wash it under olive oil, the olive oil coats the apple. If the apple had to breathe air, it would die. 

Well, aerobic bacteria have to breathe air. Every time you swallow food you get air with it. That aerobic bacteria is what digests the grains, the fruit, and the vegetables. With a low number of that, we can’t get the nutrition from those foods, and that’s where we get the wheat belly. That’s where we get even from ancient wheat. That’s where we get problems digesting the grains, and problems digesting the plants and the fruits. If you treat them correctly, they have the least amount of parasites on them. 

We don’t crave them. We crave the things that grow the parasites and grow the anaerobic bacteria. The aerobic bacteria just sits there and waits for more oxygen and to do its job. When it runs out of oxygen, it dies off. Then the anaerobic levels go way up, and we get stuck in these cycles of eating very bad food that drops our immune system, which makes us so we can’t fight off viruses, and bacterias, and funguses.

Between the bacteria in our intestines, and the parasites that we eat that come from food that is easy to digest—because parasites like food that’s easy to digest too—we have this pleasure trap, if you will, that we can’t get out of. That’s why even during this coronavirus outbreak, what’s on the shelves? Everyone’s taken all the junk food off the shelves. That’s what they brought home to eat. That you go over to the fruits and vegetables, it’s full. Nobody’s eating that stuff because nobody’s craving it. Nobody’s trying to satisfy anything and lead these urges that we get these chemical signals make us want the Oreo cookie, “Well, cookies taste good,” but if we’re craving them, there’s something wrong.

We’ve talked about this eating zero cookie in the situation before, but it applies again today. People need to eat fruits and vegetables like your previous guest said. They need to eat whole food plant-based. They need to have some vitamins and mineral supplements, they need to get their antioxidants up, they need to get the anaerobic bacteria up, and their aerobic bacteria down, then your immune system can handle it. 

When you swallow the coronavirus, you want something in there that’s going to kill it. That’s your digestive enzymes, your prebiotics. A digestive enzyme is when your pancreas gives out, so we want it to come from our pancreas—if possible. That goes down and goes down through the digestive system, and makes it so that nothing’s going to live. The coronavirus isn’t going to live in your body.

If you don’t have the antioxidants in your body, you swallow the coronavirus, they’ll probably live and you’ll get the disease. This is why people that eat better are not getting the disease or getting very minor cases of it. That includes older people. I’m here today. Guys, eat better. Eat your fruits and vegetables, and cut down or eliminate the meat, and the removed oil from vegetables. Don’t eat that if you can help it. Help your immune system come up. 

The whole food plant-based group recommends a 21-day challenge. Well, in 21 days you’ll see your whole body change dramatically for the better, and your immune system comes up. It’s amazing. Even in my household, there are three of us that eat whole food plant-based, and there are two that don’t. Well, the ones that eat whole food plant-based, when the other two get sick, we don’t get sick. We giggle too. We look at them and go, “Well, you know the solution.”

It doesn’t mean you’re not going to get it, it just means you’re not going to get a bad case of it. So once in a while, the ones of us who eat whole food plant-based will get the sniffles, will get a little bit, but we don’t get the full-blown thing. Our bodies fight it off correctly. Anyway. I recommend everybody do parasite cleanses, and liver cleanses to get the parasites out of your system.


[01:12:17] Ashley James: What do the guides recommend as being the most effective ones, or does each person is kind of different?


[01:12:28] Eric Thorton: I have noticed they like the typical, they like the natural anti-parasite things. You’re going to want—what is it cloves, wormwood—and there’s another one. Let me recall what it is.


[01:12:45] Ashley James: There’s one out of India, which is mimosa pudica. I did two interviews about this, really effective protocol by Dr. Jay Davidson. Listeners can go to for that one.


[01:13:03] Eric Thorton: Gaia has provided many different things to kill parasites. I use one that doesn’t have grapefruit seed extract because that’s not good for my body right now. I use one called Parastroy. It’s cheap, it’s easy. There are many combinations, and I’m sure you have lots of recommendations. Ashwagandha works at killing certain bacterias, and viruses, and parasites. I know that’s one of them. Organic or not, if you can’t afford the organic, it’s better to just do it anyway with not organic just to get these parasite numbers down so your body doesn’t have to fight the parasites.

Believe it or not, remember, a parasite is alive. They have excrement, and your body’s got to fight all that off. That’s literally poison in your bloodstream that your body has to fight off first before it’s going to fight the coronavirus. Lower the parasite—the non-beneficial parasites that you have in your body, the more energy your immune system has to fight this incoming disease. The better your intestinal tract is operating, the higher your aerobic bacteria is—that’s the first part of your immune system is your intestines. It’s the aerobic bacteria that do the work. The higher that is, the higher your immune system can function. 

Also, when you digest food right, it heals your large intestine so you don’t have leaky gut, so you don’t have all this what’s called triglycerides going through your intestinal wall and going into your bloodstream, and then your immune system has to fight all that off too. Our immune systems are amazing. They do so much work 24/7 keeping down systemic diseases, keeping down the incoming, taking care of chemicals we breathe, or get on us. It’s an amazing thing. If we can give some relief, it’ll focus on the things we need it to focus on. That’s what we’ve talked about today so far, how to give it some relief?

If you can reduce your anxiety by not listening to the news so much, yes we need to know what we have to do at this point.


[01:15:53] Ashley James: Don’t put your head in the sand, but you talked about that we fill in the gaps. I want to address this because I teach. I’ve been teaching since 2005 how to eliminate anxiety. That’s one of my strong suits. What you were talking about is a different way of describing what I teach.


[01:16:12] Eric Thorton: I remember you telling me something. It was really interesting. It was really good.


[01:16:16] Ashley James: Thank you. The body—the physical body—is always listening to the mind, and the mind is always filling in the gaps. I give the example of we’re driving in traffic, and everything’s fine. We’re driving to work and all of a sudden we see red lights ahead of us, all the brake lights turn on, and all of a sudden we have anxiety. Like boom, sweaty palms, the body’s freaking out, heart’s pounding, shallow breath, and we’re going, “What is going on?” Maybe a knot in your stomach or a frog in your throat. You don’t even realize that what just happened in that split second is your mind filled in the gaps and went, “Oh my gosh. There are brake lights. There’s going to be a traffic jam. I’m going to be late for work. My boss is going to fire me. I’m not going to be able to pay the rent, or pay the mortgage, or pay the grocery bills,” or whatever. We’re going to all end up homeless and dead.

The mind perceived those brake lights as a direct threat to your survival right now, and turned on the stress response of the autonomic nervous system’s fight-or-flight response, the sympathetic nervous system response. Because we’re either in cortisol response, or we’re in oxytocin. We’re either in feel-good, healing, relaxed, in a loving state, or we’re in survival, fear, worry. We become so used to, like you said, our heart chakras had taken such a hit—gosh, you just keep thinking back—the last 20 years, right? But think about before that, and think about before that. We’re under constant threat and the media loves, loves to feed on this.

I was just having a conversation the other day with a very intelligent friend of mine who said that this is a spiritual war, and then just today, before we hit record you said that. I thought that was very interesting because this is a spiritual war, and it’s been waged much longer than before we were even born. Our heart chakra is constantly taking it from all sides, keeping our heads in the sand, keeping us dumbed down, keeping us living in a low vibration state, fighting over toilet paper. Because if we’re fighting over toilet paper, then we’re not evolving, we’re not empowered, we’re not taking control of our own destiny. They’re keeping us in a low vibration, fear state.

My friend was even talking that they feed off of this energy of fear. It’s like a parasite that they feed off of keeping the masses dumbed down, fluoridated, and buying into junk food and drugs, and keeping them doped up on the dopamine—the pleasure trap. Go through Vegas, it’s close now, but go through Vegas when it’s not closed—because I used to live there. Walk through any casino and you will see. 

Plato wrote the Allegory of the Cave where he describes a person who breaks free of the chains, of the reality that constrained him, and that he comes back to warn all the people who he was in this prison with, and they all try to kill him because they could not even perceive being out of the matrix, being pulled out of the matrix. I think it’s a 33,000-year-old or 35,000-year-old story. It’s basically what the matrix was based on, is this idea that when you pull your head in the sanding, you look around, and you go, “We are all buying into this system that keeps us suppressed and keeps us sick. What are we doing?”

On social media, people are all in their homes, sharing videos and pictures of how much alcohol they’re drinking, and how much junk food they’re eating, and they’re celebrating ill health, and yet if you go out for a walk in the sunlight—not near anyone—but you go for a walk in the sunlight, and you share that, then you would be condemned. There are so many people angry about that because, “How dare you leave your house?” It’s this wacky world where we are not celebrating health.


[01:20:39] Eric Thorton: [Inaudible]


[01:20:41] Ashley James: Exactly, exactly.


[01:20:43] Eric Thorton: It’s like you were saying. You hit the brake lights and your subconscious mind thinks of all these different things. Like you said, if you change the script like, “Thank God we got brake lights here so we didn’t cause a car accident. That’s wonderful. What a great invention.” Your immune system is still working. If you’re in the other one. If you’re in the, “Oh my God. I’m going to be late from work,” your immune system has to go and take care of that. You just manifested how many minutes of your immune system not functioning correctly.


[01:21:22] Ashley James: Absolutely. The doctor I just interviewed about that said, “When we’re in cortisol, when were in a stress response, our immune system is 100% compromised.”


[01:21:30] Eric Thorton: 100%.


[01:21:31] Ashley James: Our brain is doing this all the time because this is how we were raised.


[01:21:36] Eric Thorton: It’s part of our culture now.


[01:21:38] Ashley James: But it’s part of the global programming to focus on what we don’t want to have happened. It’s also genealogically. Basically, the pessimists were the survivors, and the optimist didn’t think there’d be a bear in the woods so they were the ones that got eaten. So really, genetically, the people who are the most cautious were able to survive and pass on their genes. If we just blindly follow our basic instincts, “Oh, I feel like Oreo so I’m going to eat them. I feel like this, I’m going to eat them.” Who’s telling you to feel that? Is it your gut biome because there are so many studies, and you pointed to me, you showed me this.

There are studies that prove that the gut biome hijacks the brain, sends chemicals to the brain. If we have a bad gut biome, like the Homer Simpson of gut biomes that have been created by eating—I keep picking on Oreos. If we go through the drive-thru every day, even one meal a day, and you eat that kind of food, you’re creating a gut biome that’s going to hijack your brain and make you want that more and want the kale less.

I’m not even saying go vegan. I’m not saying cut out all meat. I’m just saying eat more plants, more and more and more plants, and more vegetables. More variety of vegetables, fruits, more whole foods.


[01:23:05] Eric Thorton: Right. Every bit helps.


[01:23:08] Ashley James: Yeah. You cultivate a gut biome that then tells you it wants that more.


[01:23:13] Eric Thorton: Dr. Goldhamer, when I was there, he goes, “If you eat this way,” they recommend 100% eating this way, but if you’ve eaten 70% of that way, you cut down your meat 70%, and your oil 70%, you have 70% less stuff in you damaging your immune system. So your immune system can work better. If you can go 80%, go 90%, you got that much more working for your health instead of for the corporations for the corporate profit. This is where we bring up the idea of enlightenment. Enlightenment is when you can look at these things and make a choice that says, “No.” Enlightenment is when you have a problem. You got to go to Jack in the Box because you’re craving their lovely food, but your brain goes, “You know, I don’t really need that today. I can choose something healthier.”

Enlightenment is when you look at the negative things and find the positive things out of that. We know scientifically that these junk foods are terrible for us, and we know these other health foods are healthy for, us but we keep choosing the ones that feed the corporate ladder and this biofilm within us. Someone who is enlightened is going to look at the problem and go, “Well, okay. This is going to hurt my body, so we’re going to override those cravings until we don’t have those cravings anymore. We don’t obsess about it.” It’s like, “Yeah, that’s what my body is craving because I put all this crap into it for all these years.” This is why Buddhist philosophy teaches enlightenment. It takes every negative that we could think of and turns it into a positive.

Enlightenment doesn’t mean not having a Jack in the Box, McDonald’s around, it means being able to make a decision for the health of your body. It doesn’t mean not having the issues, it means we can make a decision to help our bodies. In the case of the coronavirus, an enlightened person is going to—because there is no other way to stop this now that it’s out there, no matter how it got out there, it’s there. An enlightened person’s going to go, “Yeah, okay. That’s what we need to do.” A person who is not enlightened is going to go, “Oh my god. I got to have so much TP. I got to have the cookies. I got to have the Jack. What am I going to do?” They’re stuck on their greed and their habits instead of what is non-egoic, what’s good for your body, and what’s good for the planet.


[01:26:34] Ashley James: I don’t know if I’d call it greed because those people are so—they have been living in that vibration of fear for so long without knowing it. They’ve been living in that survival mode that they need to feel a sense of control. When we’re hit with chaos, we need to feel like we’re in control. When my mom was diagnosed with cancer, my dad and I—how we processed it—we immediately went to the health food store and bought her a juicer like that moment. When I really should have just stayed home and like hugged her, and held her, and not left her alone. I don’t know what we were thinking.

The moment we needed to feel like we were doing something. We needed to do something to help. People need to react and feel like they’re doing something to help their family and themselves whether it’s buying two cases of toilet paper and four boxes of Oreos. Obviously, those weren’t the decisions that were best supportive of their immune systems. Now, there are some supplement companies that have completely run out of supplements. Some people are buying up supplements, some people are buying up Oreos. We need to take a step back and go, “What can we do to support our family and our body mentally, emotionally.


[01:27:56] Eric Thorton: And our community.


[01:27:57] Ashley James: Yeah, and go beyond just our household. That’s right. Go beyond just our household. First, we got to feel like we’re not under threat. Have a week’s worth of food. Everyone should always have a week’s worth of food anyway in case there was any kind of emergency like a tornado, or something, earthquake. We should always have some. I lived in the part of Canada where this was somewhere in the early 2000s. The entire eastern seaboard lost power for I think it was a week. Something in Niagara Falls. Niagara Falls gives energy to a lot of Canada and the United States, and there was no power in Boston, there was no power in New York City. I think it was a week, I mean we could Google this, but I just remember having a ton of fun because my friends and I go camping all the time, so we just went camping.

We’re like, “We already have all the food.” It was several, several days, and there are people who were stuck. If there was no electricity, some people can’t cook, some people can’t get down 50 flights of stairs because they live in an apartment building, so there was a lot of chaos. Back then, we didn’t have the cellphones we have now, we didn’t have the internet. We all managed, but if you have a week’s worth of food for your family, that makes sense, right? Make it the right kind of food that supports the immune system—just moving forward. People were in reactionary mode, and I think now, they’re settling down and looking at, “Okay, what can I do to protect ourselves?”

So many people will not have money next week because there’s a large percentage of people who live paycheck to paycheck. I was just talking to my friend, he goes, “I have $30.” He’s a music teacher. He does his private classes. He goes, “I have $30 to last me until this is over.” There are so many people who are now in that state of fear. We have to get out of fear even though there are real threats to our survival right now, we have to get out of fear in order to support our immune system, and in order to support our ability to solve the problems because we cannot solve problems when we’re in the state of fear because the autonomic nervous system shuts down the frontal cortex in order to have us make reactionary decisions for survival.

In the long term, it is not good because we cannot think clearly and make critical decisions, which is something that you’ve talked about. How can you today help the listener? All the listeners are listening that are worried about the COVID-19, what advice do the guides give? What can we do today right now to support ourselves, our family, and our communities? 


Image by 272447 from Pixabay


[01:31:08] Eric Thorton: Well, to pull this together. One, eat right if you can. Two, support your community. If you’ve got someone that’s got $30 and you got more, help them out. The government’s trying to get checks out through their system. It’s going to take a little longer. If they need driving or they need to get help getting to unemployment offices to get money. If they need help with their business to get, like you and I are private businesses, how do we keep our income coming in, or do we need help?

When you’re in safety mode, if you got $30 left, talk to people. Let them know that there’s a problem. Maybe, if people can get out of their own fear and their own—I use the word greed earlier—greed, that they’ve got to have it. They don’t want to be in that guy’s position and only have $30 left. There have been many stories around the area I’m at where people are buying people’s groceries where they don’t have enough money to pay for their groceries and other people are coming up and paying for that. That’s a wonderful thing. That heals the heart chakra. That makes us feel, everybody feel good. If we can pass that forward or what do they call that? Pay it forward.

If we can remember the good things we have. When I get into fear—I’m human too. When I get in the fear, I think of all the people that I get to help. They’ve proven that energetic medicine kills viruses. I’m a healer, and I get to help do that. Each individual has the ability to harness healing energy even when you’re in fear. If you can sit there, and someone’s got the coronavirus, and you can sit there and feel the love that you have for that person, and put your hand over their heart chakra, don’t touch it, just put it over their heart chakra, and just let them feel your love. Like you said, one of you should have stayed home and just held your mom when she was diagnosed. That is huge. This is why bringing families together from being separated. We can help our community that way.

I get to help people on a regular basis doing that, but we all have the ability to conduct love. We all have the ability to conduct Gaia, which is peaceful harmonizing energy. If we just put our hands over the top of someone’s heart chakra between the lower sternum and the top of the sternum and just send love. You can do this from a distance. If you have a friend that has the virus. I was working with someone—I work everything long-distance right now and I was working with them. I just said, “Can I send you healing energy?” Because I will always ask. They said, “Sure,” and then I’m able to just put my hand where their heart chakra would be—duplicated in my mind’s eye—and just send them that love. They felt better immediately. That’s something we can all do.

If we can all do the 9:00 PM scramble of the matrix in our own mind’s eye, let’s do it. The power of 800 million maybe, or the power of 8,000. The power of anything to put our intention instead of fear. To put it to love in our humanity, our fellow human beings, and touch each other through the energetics whether we’re with them or not. Call, I have been calling friends. I check up on people that I know. I know thousands of people, and I text them, and email them, and things like that. I want to know how they’re doing. Anyone I’ve worked within sessions, I can send them healing energy very easily. It seems to shorten the time and severity of any virus.

Everybody can do that. I can do it differently, really well, but everybody can still do that. That calms the soul. It calms the heart chakra for both people and all participating. So let’s do that instead of watching all the hearsay and listening to it all the hearsay. It’s here guys. The only way we’re going to stop it—it isn’t through eating ginger. It’s going to be through love. It’s going to be through holding each other in that space of love and not shoo.


[01:36:38] Ashley James: Well, love turns off the stress response.


[01:36:41] Eric Thorton: Exactly.


[01:36:42] Ashley James: You also mentioned things that could be described as gratitude. The thing is we have to catch ourselves because we unconsciously automatically fill in the gaps. A really good practice is teaches you how to do critical thinking and listen for linguistic fallacies. When you listen for linguistic fallacies, you realize how much we fill in the gaps, and we always need gaps in a way that may threaten our survival and so it turns on the stress response a lot of the times.

You and I have talked about this. It’s something that at first, it’s like unconscious incompetence, and then we become conscious of it, and now we’re consciously incompetent. Now we’re catching ourselves every time we’re in anxiety, or worry, or stress, or fear, and we catch ourselves and we go, “Oh, there. I’m doing it again. There, I’m giving in to the worry and the fear. I’ve been giving in to it. How do I break this cycle?” We have to start breaking the cycle and it could be 20 times a day focusing on what’s good about this.


[01:37:56] Eric Thorton: One of my therapists and also a doctor told me this. He goes, “Eric, you have a busy life, you have stressors,” they all know what I do for a living. They go, “Instead of trying to answer consciously the issues you’re having, Eric, why don’t you do this? Do a little visualizing so you can pull in both halves of your brain.” When you’re in the fight-or-flight, you’re in the conscious effort, you’re using the logic side of your brain, and it’s only 5% of your brain’s power when it’s used alone. When you combine it with the artistic side of your brain, you can now use 95% of your brain’s power.

They suggested this, “Eric, put your problems,” they suggested a visualization. They said, “Put your problems on a raft and you’re going down a river. You see the waterfall coming up, and you see the rapids before the waterfall. You can make a choice. You can get off that raft with all your problems, and go to the side of the river, and sit there, and watch that raft and all your problems go down the river and off the waterfall, and then you can go down to the end of it. Get on the raft again if you want.” What you’ve done at that moment is you’ve included the artistic side of your brain in your thinking process, and you’re watching this thing happen through your mind’s eye, so you’re turning off the conscious fight-or-flight—the part that turns on the cortisol.

You’re turning it off, and you’re pulling in the artistic side of the brain, so then your brain is actually doing a full three-dimensional thinking subconsciously. That’s when your answers come to you. When you’re constantly trying to figure it out, like you said, different ideas have different words for this, but it’s the cortisol response from your adrenal glands. When you include the artistic side of your brain by launching it to the moon. We talked about the energy exchange.

Everyone who’s heard my talks, we talked about the energy exchange where we are visually giving back the person their stressors. It’s telling our brain consciously, “Oh, that’s not mine,” and subconsciously it’s like, “Oh.” You can think about them, how to actually help this person by supporting them and letting them figure out their problem. If you answer their problem, you’ve prevented them from learning and growing, but if you sit back and you go, “You know that’s their problem, it’s not mine, but I can hear, and I can listen to them, and I can be here for them, and I can just keep giving it back to them.”

Your immune system doesn’t get compromised then. Your thinking power goes into a 95% use of your brain, and you can come up with solutions for ideas to present them, but not demand, so that this person’s brain can think. Their imagination can think. We have a problem. We start listening to the news today. Launch it to the moon. Take it, and throw it into the matrix, and just scramble it up in your mind’s eye.

Imagine clouds and you’re up there and you’re just scrambling them up. That’s pulling in the artistic side of your brain and logic centers, calming the reaction down so you don’t feel hopeless, you’re not in the fight or flight, and your immune system, again, works better. These are doctors. This is my MD that told me this, and I already knew it, but it was amazing that he actually said that, and a therapist. Again, I knew this. It’s common knowledge is the point, but we don’t do it.


[01:42:18] Ashley James: We’re listening now.


[01:42:21] Eric Thorton: We need to do that. Right. We need to do this. We need to sit there and go, “Yeah,” whatever we’re in the middle of the seat COVID-19. We’re in it. We’ve got to do the distancing whether we like it or not, and if we don’t like it, shoot it to the moon. Go climb a tree if you don’t like it. Go hug a tree. Go for a walk. If people glare at you, give them their energy back. If they’re glaring at you because you’re within 10-feet, okay, accept that. Get away from them—or I guess it’s 6 feet. Other than that, it’s their problem, it’s not yours. Give it back to them. Go admire some moss. Ever looked at moss with a magnifying glass? It’s amazing.


[01:43:03] Ashley James: Moss is so cool.


[01:43:05] Eric Thorton: It is so cool. You ever just sat there for an hour and watched water run in a brook or a river? Or imagine yourself sitting there in a river that’s warm, and there’s no crocodiles or anything, any fish that are going to eat you. You’re just sitting there enjoying it and enjoying the smells. All you imagine is the smells. Maybe you can throw in any smell you want.


[01:43:34] Ashley James: Of nature.


[01:43:34] Eric Thorton: It just smells amazing. Of nature.


[01:43:35] Ashley James: Not of the Hudson River.


[01:43:36] Eric Thorton: Yeah, I’ll agree with you there. I’ve only flown over the Hudson River. I never swam in it. Anyway. If you can clean your imagination, it turns off the things that are going to give you all the cortisol. Helping, imagining running the energy into your friend’s heart chakra. Imagining the Sun coming up in the middle of the night. Tomorrow’s going to be another day. The sun helps cleanse the earth and gives Gaia. There are so many things to do that pull in all of the brain so that we can relax, and unwind, and get over, get through this yet another pandemic. It’s not the end of the world.


[01:44:33] Ashley James: Do they have any information right now? Because they know who’s listening because there is no time for them. What information do they have for the listeners who are listening right now?


[01:44:50] Eric Thorton: I’ve been listening to the guides through the talk, so do the things we’ve talked about. Use your tools. Use your tools. Use the things you’ve learned from your healing group. Connect with people and talk about things and imaginative. Talk about joy. When this is done, what we’re going to do? How we’re going to have fun? When this passes, there comes a time of peace and prosperity.


[01:45:29] Ashley James: Is that they’re saying?


[01:45:31] Eric Thorton: They’re saying, yes, use the tools you’ve gotten from your healing team. The people that listen to you have healing teams. It’s not a time to panic, it’s a time to rest.


[01:45:48] Ashley James: Yeah, mandatory staycation.


[01:45:52] Eric Thorton: Mandatory staycation.


[01:45:54] Ashley James: Go chill. Netflix and chill.


[01:45:57] Eric Thorton: If you can help someone that needs money, help them, buy them food. The other day I was at Whole Foods near us. This older guy, clean-cut, you can tell he didn’t have a lot of money, but he was clean, good shoes. He was just desperate. He came up to me. He goes, “My wife and I are waiting for a check from the government. It was supposed to arrive today. We have to sleep in our car tonight. Here’s our car.” Not a new car but it showed they were getting government help. He had a decent hat on, and it was clean so he wasn’t just a drug addict or anything. You could just feel they were hungry. My heart just went, “Oh my God.” I thought, “Well, okay.” My heart felt this and I needed to do something for this person. I thought, “I could.” He didn’t want money, he wanted food.”

I was coming out of Whole Foods so I thought to myself, I go, “Well, I don’t really have a meal here for him.” I thought, “What can I do?” I just said, “I’m sorry. Let me think about this.” I literally got in my car and I drove to a place. I got a meal, a good-quality meal for him and his wife, not a banana, or an apple, or a bag of something, or cream corn that everybody likes to give their junk to food banks. I got them teriyaki food. I asked him if he ate meat and he said yes. I got both of them a full teriyaki chicken dinner with all the trimmings. I brought it back to them. I drove through the parking lot, and he was still there. I opened my window, and I said, “Here.” I handed in the bag. I said, “I bought you and your wife full meals because you are worth it.”

He looked at me and he started to cry. I did too, I’m crying right now. It was a heart connection. He needed some help, and he wasn’t a drug addict. He wasn’t begging for money to go get another hit. It helped him through the night. I bought him that, and I bought him potato soup because maybe one of them was allergic to wheat or something and I didn’t know. I bought him something without any wheat in it. It still touches my heart. That’s what we need. The guides just reminded me of that story. We need to do this. That’s how we open up. That’s one of the ways we open up and repair the heart chakra. I hope he can pay it forward one day. I hope I can do this again for somebody else, and I will. It helps everybody.


[01:49:36] Ashley James: Beautiful. I love it. In my neighborhood, there are 270 something people in a Facebook group, just our little neighborhood. Just our little one-mile radius kind of thing. We already have posts of people saying, “Hey, let me know if you need something. I can go to the store.” Every day, there’s been a post like, “Okay, who needs something? Who’s at risk? I can run to the store for you.” I’m in a bunch of other communities, Facebook groups of other areas in my area. I’m seeing this, I’m seeing people reach out. Instead of posting fear-based scarcity posts, post love, gratitude, helping posts. Look to help others because that will get you out of stress response.


[01:50:39] Eric Thorton: I have friends that are older, and we keep in contact with them. They’re not poor. We brought them some homemade granola. I just set it on the bench in front of their house, and they had made some rosemary organic sourdough rolls, and they left a bag of that out there for us. Just an exchange, just to show we care. That opens up and heals the heart chakra.


[01:51:18] Ashley James: Yeah. The one caveat would be if either one of you would be high-risk, you could technically give each other the virus. Although you would work energetically to remove it.


[01:51:31] Eric Thorton: I also took precautions, did the precaution.


[01:51:35] Ashley James: The Naturopath I just interviewed said if you have bread, for example like those rolls, to kill a virus, you have to freeze it for three days. I didn’t know that. I thought that was really interesting. If it’s in a package, then you can wash the package. To make sure you’ve killed a virus, you have to freeze something for three days.


[01:51:57] Eric Thorton: That’s after it’s been cooked though. Cooking kills the viruses.


[01:52:01] Ashley James: Right.


[01:52:01] Eric Thorton: If you’ve handled it after you’ve cooked it and you have the virus on your hand, then you’ve got it on the rolls. There are several steps here. We took precautions in that case, and we should. I happen to know because these are friends that are also clients, so I knew they didn’t have the virus and they’re taking the precautions. I know I don’t have it right now. No one in my family has it right now. We’re good, but we still took the precautions anyway. The door didn’t open. I just rang the doorbell, it was there. I was using gloves, and we did the exchange. Those things help the heart chakra, and yes, do the precautions.

If you can help someone that really needs it, do it. It’s just a kind gesture and just to allow people to feel you’re above, and you’re caring, and allow you to express it, and to receive it. That’s how we strengthen the heart chakra, and we strengthen the lungs, and we reduce anxiety. All of these things we’ve talked about today are all in the same line. We’ve heard it how many times—it’s love that cures all. It is. Without the heart chakra functioning the third chakra suffers, the second chakra suffers, your first chakra suffers, and you get sick.

Yes, do everything you can to help your fellow humans and take the precautions. Because no matter what anybody says, it’s here. Stop paying attention to all the hearsay about why it’s here. It is just here and deal with it. Turn off, listen to music, read a good book. You know how beneficial reading is. Write. Creative imagination, write if you’re a writer. Even if you’re not a writer, write. It’s fun. Just don’t post it on the Internet.


[01:54:49] Ashley James: Why not?


[01:54:51] Eric Thorton: Gee, it might get lost in the crowd of crap.


[01:54:57] Ashley James: I have a list on my fridge I wrote. There’s like at least 50 things of really positive activities to do that raise my vibration, and I want to give homework to all the listeners to go sit down with a piece of paper and a fun pen and write out a list. I didn’t even use line paper, I just used a blank paper. I just wrote columns. You can write more than one page, but write out a list of everything you can do in your home or around your home that brings you joy.

It could be out in nature. If you can get out into nature, if you can get out to, because a lot of the parks are closed, so you have to get creative to get out there. If you can go out in your backyard and sunbathe in your backyard. Right now, it’s spring here where I am. I know it’s still cold like on the East Coast, but you can still bundle up and get out in the sun. Write a list of everything you can do that brings you joy. I was really surprised. I gave myself this homework, and I started writing, and it gave me so much clarity to write this list.

What happens is you’ll get about 7 to 12 down, usually around 9, you’ll get 9 in and you’ll draw a blank. That’s because of how the brain works. We usually only hold about 7 different thoughts in our heads.


[01:56:30] Eric Thorton: In our conscious mind.


[01:56:32] Ashley James: In the conscious mind. It clears, all of a sudden you draw blank. You ask yourself the question again, and you start thinking about it, and then another 7 will come. You’ll just have that really interesting experience of the brain emptying out and then refilling, and emptying out and refilling because your unconscious is bringing it to your consciousness.


[01:56:52] Eric Thorton: Right. One way of doing that we already talked about. You’ve come to your list of say 7 or 9 and you’re at a blank. Think about climbing that gorgeous tree out there, and all of a sudden you have a whole bunch more ideas. Think about doing cartwheels when you were a kid, or giggling until you were out of breath, and all of a sudden you got more ideas. It is because you’re pulling in the subconscious mind, the artistic part of your brain, and giving the conscious mind the ability to write something down. It’s amazing. If you just had the list of nine and you went through and visualized them all in your head, another bunch would show up, so the same thing we’re talking about.

Those to-dos are real. They’ve proven it, quantum physics. They’ve proven this stuff, and we can do this, and we need to do this for our own sanity so we can all get back to, hopefully, a calmer better and life. We’ll have learned, maybe, we need to stop paying so much attention to the frustrations around the planet and pay more attention to the things that are beautiful, the things we have in common. That will help the heart chakra and our immune system as well. There’s a lot to do folks, there’s a lot to do. It’s not like we got nothing.

I’m sitting here with the same fear as anybody else has. I tell people, “I will work on anybody who’s been here having a session before because otherwise, I’m going to be overrun. If you’re a client of mine and you get the virus, let me know or something else.” Because again. I am only one person, so, unfortunately, I have to set up boundaries. Maybe we can help you out and maybe we can teach you to help yourself out. I take time with you. With clients I’ve had, I don’t charge for the time. I would never take advantage of the situation. I would never charge someone to work on the pandemic because that’s completely immoral to me, but I will help anybody who I’ve worked with before.

Again, that’s just a filter. It’s not an elitist thing or anything else. It’s just a filter, otherwise, I get overwhelmed, and I’ll die. If you hear this, if you got a problem, I’ve worked with a number of your listeners. I am happy to help out if you think you’ve got a problem or you know you’ve got a problem—if it’s the virus type of thing. If it’s other things, you need to process and work on things, you need another appointment. Again, I’m not going to charge to send someone healing energy or healing vibrations to work on the virus.

Sometimes, I will work with people, and someone will be sick, and I’ll say, “Look, I need other people around them. I need family around them.” I said, “Call me back when you have anyone around that’s family or friends in the vicinity. If they got the coronavirus, they’re obviously not going to be in the same room, but we want to meet at this and such time because we need to harness everybody’s energy for this.” It really opens up all of their hearts and helps them all deal with this stuff, so that’s why we do this sometimes.

Again, the more people, the more the intention. The more clarity, the more the person feels it, and feels held, and supported, which helps their immune system again, and opens up their heart chakra. We do different things for different people in different situations, or even the same situation will be different for different people. I’ve had someone with a child that was ill with it. I had the mom at a distance, because we’re not doing anything in person, hold the child a certain way, and then we ran the energy through it. The mom could feel it. The child could calm down. Again, I can’t make any claims here, but it goes away. It goes away. That’s what we like. For whatever reason. That’s what we want. Anyway. I don’t know where we go from here.

Image by Okan Caliskan from Pixabay 


[02:02:20] Ashley James: I think we can wrap it up.


[02:02:23] Eric Thorton: Okay. I really hope people can do this. I’m going to work on it every day at 9:00 PM. I’m going to spend about 10 minutes. I didn’t mention the length of time on that. Maybe we should do that.


[02:02:43] Ashley James: Okay.


[02:02:44] Eric Thorton: I’ve asked everybody to, at 9:00 PM, the guides have said this to me. At 9:00 PM, your standard time, whatever time zone you’re in, 10 minutes. Just like with this book, the Power of 8. Put the intention of scrambling the matrix so it can reset itself and heal itself so that it can help Gaia kill the virus.


[02:03:12] Ashley James: Because we’re trying to override the amount of fear that has sickened the matrix, essentially.


[02:03:18] Eric Thorton: Correct, exactly. The fear is weak. You scramble it like a bacteria, it dies. Love is strong.


[02:03:28] Ashley James: So we’re not going to love into it when we’re scrambling it? We’re just scrambling it and letting Gaia reset it? This is what the guides have told you?


[02:03:38] Eric Thorton: The guides have said, “Let Gaia reset it.” No intention except to scramble it. No intention of putting healing in it, no intention of anything. God made this system for a reason, whatever you want to call God, and it works. Just like they showed me at 9/11, we can really mess things up because we think the universe needs us specifically and it doesn’t. The universe—our planet—works very well without us. We die every hundred years or so, and it’s amazing how the planet keeps going on without us in-between lives. It doesn’t need us all to do this.

Sometimes we have to help the planet reset and set itself. Just put out the energy of scrambling the clouds maybe, if that’s what your imagination needs. For 10 minutes at 9:00 PM your time zone. I’m just getting it and they’re giving me 10 days. Let’s see what happens. See if there’s enough energy here to harness it. See if we can get the coronavirus numbers to start going down throughout the whole planet. See if some of the tension and the disconnect that all of these countries have right now, see if some of that goes away too. See if some of our own anxiety drops when we do this.

I think it would be an amazing experiment, never done it before. I mean I helped yet the other day with it but never done anything like this before. I’ve never heard of anybody doing this, and this is what the guide said to do. Have your listeners pass it on to everybody. If the word could get out and everybody did this, I don’t know how long until this is published, but if everybody did this, it’d be an amazing thing. Just the commonality would help heal everybody’s heart chakra without even trying because of the commonality. We’re the human race working together in every country of the world. That would be pretty amazing, and I could see, energetically, the power or something like that.

I’d like to see what would happen. That’s just my opinion. It’s an idea from the guides to do to suggest to everybody. I’d like to see it. I would be just as amazed as the next person.


[02:06:35] Ashley James: To wrap it up, I’d love to hear a bit more. Tell me what the guides have shown you when this is all over, that you said there’s going to be peace and prosperity. Can you elaborate on that?


[02:06:48] Eric Thorton: Whenever the human body gets out of tension, we get the massive oxytocin. Say we’re done with this in July, or June, or something like that, we still have the political problems, but the world has conquered then a major thing. There’s a common humanity there. That alone is going to give us—even the political leaders—it’s going to make them think again, “Oh my God. These people are all working together. We better be careful. We better do the right thing.” If we’re all thinking similarly and we’re all on the same thing, we all start to get back to work, and we can appreciate more than what we are having. When the appreciation goes up, the heart center vibration goes up, and everything starts to prosper more.

When we’re in fear, we’re in cortisol. In those types of hormones we make wrong decisions, or misinformed decisions, or decisions we filled in the blanks on as we’ve talked about. When we come through a stressful situation, there’s a period of aura, of release, of—what’s it called when you’ve had a lot of tension—even afterglow, I guess you might call it. There is, there’s that afterglow that comes, and it lasts for quite a while. There can be a lot of prosperity, and it’ll have nothing to do with our politicians that are currently running the planet. That will only have to do with one human being helping another. That is prosperity. People feel that euphoria, and they feel free, and they start moving, and shaking, and having excitement, and ideas start to flow when this type of thing, tension ends.

That’s why there is always a period of prosperity after any worldwide problem. That includes wars as well as pandemics and whatever else people can think of. Just hope we won’t screw up humanity. There’s always a period of euphoria afterward. If we pay attention to the politicians, they’re trying to get it back to the way that they have it. Where if we pay attention to what our cells, and our love, and we keep the love going, then we’re going to create a new political environment as well because they’re not going to fit it anymore. They’re not going to fit the matrix if we scrambled the matrix, for example. They will be voted out of office, and new people will come in. Good or bad, it’ll be different. There will be prosperity. Anyway.


[02:10:11] Ashley James: I like it. I like it. I said in an earlier interview this week that this last few months and the next few months, from January 1, two quarters of 2020, is going to be studied for years to come. Because we now have the ability to have such a global response and global media with the internet, with social media, with the way we’re interacting with each other, communicating with each other, and the way we’re able to share studies, statistics. We’re able to share things faster, get things done quicker. We’ll see this and we also are experiencing this meme, the whole world.

I was just talking to a friend that lives in Mexico, and I asked him, “What’s the climate like?” He’s from Mexico. He’s lives near Panama, and he’s in an area I’ve never been to Mexico so I didn’t know what it’s like. What’s the culture like down there? I said, “Yeah, what’s it like down there?” He described to a tea what Seattle’s like. People are afraid. They’re stuck in their homes. They’re hoarding huge amounts of different kinds of things. He says, “No one’s freaking about toilet paper, but everyone’s buying up the Lysol. When you go to the store, you’re only allowed to buy one per person.” They’re actually enforcing people stay indoors. There’s great panic, fear, and hoarding of these items.

When he was describing what’s going on down there, I was like, “Wow, that’s exactly what’s going on here in Seattle.” I just wonder how many other places in the world, how many other countries in the world are experiencing something very similar because we’re able to share these experiences around the world. When we, as a globe, conquer this virus and get to go back to “normal,” that huge relief will feel like we won almost like when we won World War II.

Unfortunately, there was part of the world that didn’t win, but this time, all the countries are fighting a war. That we all have a common enemy. We’re going to have this huge relief. You’re saying that your guides have showed you a world soon where we, as a global population, have a sigh of relief, and it’s going to bring us into it a time of peace and prosperity. Hopefully, it’ll allow us to really gain perspective because we’re look back and reflect on what happened over the course of the last few months. We’re going to see how our actions impacted the ecology of the planet. Hopefully, we could learn them.


[02:13:27] Eric Thorton: Hopefully, we can learn from it. This is the one thing I’m hesitant about. Mark this because I don’t know if you’re going to want to put this out there or not. The political system is trying to—they’re saying, “Okay, we’re going to send you something in the United States. We’re going to send your money. We’re going to take care of your business so you don’t go out of business, so we can keep the economic system going, so we can keep what’s going politically.” They want to hold their political power. They are afraid. You can see it in some of these, people I can see it. They are afraid that when this global unity comes together and this euphoria from conquering this as a planet, we’re going to throw out these people that are based on fear. They want to control us with fear. They are afraid we are going to overrun them.

Frankly, it could happen because once people realize that this fear has contributed to this pandemic and this division within our own families, within our communities, within our state’s in our countries, they’re going to be thinking about this going, “This isn’t how to solve the problem. The problem is to do it with love.” That to solve a problem we do it with love. We do it by supporting one another. I see this as if you look at the polling numbers, as the virus goes up, the popularity of the people in power is going down. In times of prosperity, the people that are in power, when it wasn’t prosperous, are thrown out.

If you look at history, Winston Churchill was a hero during the war. Since the war was over, his point of views were based on fear. He was voted because the euphoria voted to be Prime Minister and then gone because his political points of view were no longer valid. All the politicians that are running the world right now realize that happened, and that didn’t just happen to Winston Churchill, it happened all over the entire world after World War II. This is why the politicians are going, “We got to get back to work. We’ve got to get the country back to work.” Because they’re afraid of exactly what we just talked about.


[02:16:39] Ashley James: Once we’re out of fear will let turnaround and not resonate with these fear-based messages they’re trying to sell us.


[02:16:47] Eric Thorton: Right. That’s a huge thing. That’s why you see the medical system arguing with the political system. The political system wants this, “No, no, no, no, no,” so people don’t have time to deal with this. They want a solution, they want an immunization, so people can’t solve it spiritually through love. They can keep controlling them. The medical system is going, “No, this is going to take months. The political system is going, “No, we got to be back on target by Easter.” It’s like, “Well, okay.”

They want it on target by Easter so that they can maintain the control, the political control. Because the longer this goes and it’s out of control of these people in politics, it makes them look really bad. People will look at that and they’re going to change the regimes. Again, I don’t know if you want this portion in there or not.


[02:18:07] Ashley James: Oh, yeah. That’s interesting. I think it’s all very interesting. It gives us a good perspective, get the 30,000-foot view. We’re going to pull out of this. We need to do our part now to rise above the fear, help our communities, help ourselves. Practice the social distancing so that we protect those who are vulnerable: the smokers, the people who are over 65, people who are nutrient-deficient, people are immune-compromised. They’re going to be ones that are hit hard.

What’s interesting—one of the things that one of my guests said earlier this week is—they need us to self-quarantine as much as possible so that they can catch up and have enough ventilators. Most of the population will be asymptomatic, but the percentage of people—and they keep throwing around numbers, we don’t know the accuracy of them. 20% that end up in the hospital, 5% and up in ICU, and they still don’t have enough ventilators. They’re busy making them.


[02:19:26] Eric Thorton: Right, but that’s what the numbers they have.


[02:19:27] Ashley James: Those are the numbers they have.


[02:19:28] Eric Thorton: One of the things I’ve seen with them dragging their feet with testing is if they tested everybody they could create a graph showing just how big this has become, and everybody would panic. When most of us don’t have symptoms, and they won’t be a problem, but we would still test positive. It creates even more panic.


[02:20:00] Ashley James: Right. Because the majority of people will be asymptomatic. There are also false positives. I’ve been looking at studies. That there’s something like 9% of the coronavirus tests are false positives. Plus, they can’t, they don’t have the ability to test the whole population. Those are billions of people. We can’t test everyone.


[02:20:30] Eric Thorton: It’s not necessary, and it would panic everybody anyway because most people are going to be asymptomatic. If they find out everybody has it around them, everyone’s going to be panicked even more, and then more people will get sick because it causes so much anxiety. I’m going, “Heck, if you don’t have symptoms, don’t be tested. Just stay away in case you have it, to social distance.


[02:20:58] Ashley James: Social distancing, focus on gratitude, focus on love. If you live in a household with other people and everyone’s healthy in your household, do cuddling and hugging because that also increases the immune system. We need to protect the vulnerable in our population, and deliver them food, keep them safe. The doctor I interviewed said, “By July this will be gone because this virus—viruses in general—is very sensitive to heat. That’s why in Hawaii, which they’ve shut down Hawaii. No tourism, they’ve shut it down. I just yesterday spoke with a woman, one of my guests who lives in Hawaii. She said you have to be under quarantine for 14 days before you’re allowed to come to Hawaii, and you can’t really do anything or go anywhere when you’re in Hawaii now because it’s shut down. There’s a very low proliferation rate.


[02:21:56] Eric Thorton: Right. It doesn’t like heat or humidity.


[02:21:59] Ashley James: It doesn’t like it. Whereas in Boston, they’re getting more of a spread. Here it’s been very cold. It’s been irregularly cold for this time of year for us in Seattle, and so it’s spreading faster in the colder regions. If you’re in Las Vegas, for example, you’re always in AC. There are places where you think it’s warm, but everyone’s always in buildings spreading the virus with each other. Get out in the heat. When it heats up in the summertime, it’s going to die down. This is something we need to tell help each other for the next few months. Get in gratitude and love.


[02:22:39] Eric Thorton: Right. If people go back to work too early, the way the politicians want it, it’s just going to start another round of it. That’s why the head of the CDC is telling our leaders, “Probably won’t happen by Easter.” It’s got to be long enough that we don’t reinfect when we all go back to work. It may take a few payments from the government. Anyway. Set the intention for 9:00 PM your standard time, your specific time, and scramble the matrix, however, you can imagine it in your head. Do it for 10 minutes.

 [02:23:30] Ashley James: Ten minutes and then focus on love as much as possible throughout the day, gratitude, write down a list of everything you could do in your home that brings you joy, figure out how you can help your community, stay safe, and stay sane. Don’t give in to the fear but give in to the love as much as possible. We will get through this. 

I love that the guides have told you, we are going to come into a time of prosperity and peace after this. I learned something from Tony Robbins several years ago that’s really helped me in my life, and my husband as well. It’s in times of desperation asking what’s good about this. It’s not to belittle it, you know what I mean?

Let’s say I had cancer—knock-on-wood, thank God I don’t. Let’s say I had cancer, asking, “What’s good about this?” is like, “What can I learn from this? How can I shift my mind from it?” This virus is like we’re all affected by it in one way or another, but what is good about this?


[02:24:36] Eric Thorton: That brings in the whole brain’s thinking power when you ask that question. It calms you down, it calms the conscious fears down. Soon as you ask a question like that, Tony Robbins understands how three-dimensional thinking works. He’s saying, “Get away from your fears.” He’s got human problems like everybody else, okay, but he’s right on this. If you bring in your imagination instead of sitting there trying to figure it out, you bring in just like what you said, all of a sudden you’re thinking three-dimensionally, it calms you down, and brings up your immune system. 

He is correct, and that’s beautiful. That’s exactly right. There are a few other groups like Tony Robbins used to do, I don’t know if he’s still doing it, that promote the imagination. You get a full three-dimensional thinking process so you calm down. Do that. Do all the things that we just suggested. We’re having this ride. You have a choice. You can either be angry, upset about it, or you can be neutral about it, or you can find everything positive you can. It’s your choice.

That one second is going to go by and so is the next one, and so is the next one, and so is the next one, whether you choose A, B, or C. If you need help, don’t be afraid to ask for help. If you see someone that needs help, help them. It heals the heart chakra, and it increases your immune system, drops all the cortisol, and all the things we’ve talked about.

We need to be kinder, we need to be softer, we need to step back from this machine that has been going on for three and a half years and go now. Sit back, launch it to the moon, and yeah, you need a little information, but you don’t need to dwell in it. Anyway.


[02:27:21] Ashley James: Just to clarify with the practice of scrambling, what about people who are like Reiki masters who want to send healing love to the planet? Is that helpful? Because we’re all adding our own intention, which is just making it worse.


[02:27:41] Eric Thorton: Right. What one person thinks is healing love is different than another person’s because we’re all different. Every one of us is a different frequency. We can’t literally put out the same frequencies. We have to trust, have a little faith that the universe will work in spite of human interference, and if we can lessen the human interference. 

I’ve been shown this so many times like the story I told of 9/11. I’ve been showed it so many times that our egos prevent the universe, if you will, or work against preventing the universe from straightening itself out. It is designed to do that. The universe does not need me, it doesn’t need you, it doesn’t need any healer on this planet in any way shape or form in order to heal people.

We are points of contact between the angels—healers are points of contact between the angels, and guides, and humans, and other beings because we live in this realm, so we operate best in this realm. Like me, when I astral project somewhere, it takes me a while till someone can actually see me. It’s worked for an angel to be in our realm so we can see it. It’s harder for it to work, so they use healers all over the world basically as a fuse between that realm where they exist in the realm where we exist. If we let it work instead of thinking the almighty human is going to solve everything in the universe and God has to have us in order for the universe to heal.

If we stop that egoic thought, and we stop putting our own agenda to the energy we’re putting out here is what they’re asking us to do. Just a unified agenda of scrambling the matrix so it can reset itself, so that it can heal the virus, and the planet, and the people within it. Again, I’ve never heard this thought before. The guides just gave it to me.


Image by bernswaelz from Pixabay 


[2:30:14] Ashley James: Yeah, the guides just you, right?


[02:30:16] Eric Thorton: They told it to me. It was three days ago. I was just phenomenal. I was literally—what is it called—gob struck or something like that.


[02:30:27] Ashley James: Gobsmacked.


[02:30:28] Eric Thorton: I was like, “Oh my God.” I just went, “Oh my god. That’s what you’ve been showing me over the years, but now you’re putting it on a larger scale,” and they’re going, “Yeah.”


[02:30:43] Ashley James: Cool. All right. Let’s do it. Let’s do it and see what happens.


[02:30:46] Eric Thorton: Let’s do it.


[02:30:47] Ashley James: Thank you so much, Eric. It’s always a pleasure having you here.


[02:30:51] Eric Thorton: Thank you. Thank you.


[02:30:53] Ashley James: Yeah. Just getting out there. My show Learn True Health podcast focuses on health, but health is not just physical health, it’s emotional, mental, spiritual, energetic, and its health of your whole life. I have had interviews with wonderful marriage counselors, with physical therapists, with Naturopathic doctors, with you. It’s encompassing everything to do without your whole life. 

Having you on the show, really, I was so worried that people would take it the wrong way, and instead, I had a flood of listeners saying that your interviews have been the missing key in their life. That your interviews have been so significant to make their life make sense. I definitely encourage listeners to go back.


[02:31:46] Eric Thorton: Thank you.


[02:31:47] Ashley James: You’re welcome. Go back and listen to my past interviews with Eric. You can go to It’s Eric with a C, There’s a tab or something that says interviews, and if you click there, you just get actually redirected back to my website, which shows you all of the interviews that we’ve done together. You can just search Eric Thorton on my website at, and it allows you to go back. 

Listen to the earlier ones, especially the first one. All of them are great, my favorite one though is when you share the story of your life. What a unique life you’ve lived. It’s very cool, but it gives us hope that there’s more here than the mainstream wants us to focus on. This is a spiritual world, we are spiritual beings, and that we can use our intention, our attention, our focus, prayer, energy, thought. That we can use all of that to affect our health and the quality of our life.


[02:32:56] Eric Thorton: I want to say something to you too. Without you doing the interviewing, it wouldn’t be here. You’re doing a wonderful service to the world.

[02:33:06] Ashley James: Thank you.


[02:33:08] Eric Thorton: I think your listeners need to appreciate that too. They need to tell you that.


[02:33:13] Ashley James: I feel the appreciation. We just got to keep sharing it and getting it out there. Got to help as many people as we can.


[02:33:20] Eric Thorton: We’re not perfect. People comment this, that, or the other. Nobody’s perfect, but you know something? You’re doing a service. I’m a part of it, and so are all the other people you’re interviewing. It’s a wonderful service and keep doing it. It’s great.


[02:33:41] Ashley James: Thank you. I’d really like to see this get as big as it can and help as many people as possible, so please share these interviews with those you love so we can help as many people as possible. For me, I want to see this take off. We are reaching thousands of people, and I want to reach hundreds of thousands of people so we could help more people. Because more people need to know this information that the body has an amazing ability to heal itself. That they can heal. They can use food as medicine, they can supplement, and fill in the gaps. That there are natural remedies out there that are even better than drugs.


[02:34:23] Eric Thorton: Yes.


[02:34:25] Ashley James: I’ve had listeners write to me and say, “I never knew what a Naturopath was, but now I’m seeing one because of your show.” I’ve had several emails over the last four years. I’ve been doing this podcast since 2016. I’ve had several emails say, “I was in pre-med to become an MD and I’ve switched. I’m now going to become a Naturopath. I never knew that Naturopathy was a choice, but I learned about it through your podcast.” That to me is such a big win that people are learning about chiropractors, about acupuncturists, about in Naturopaths, about osteopaths, about functional-based medicine. They didn’t even know those tools were available to them.


[02:35:11] Eric Thorton: That’s why I’m so glad you’re doing this because it truly takes a village. It’s not just a cliché statement. It truly does, and it takes a global village sometimes. Right now is one of those times. I hope you can get this podcast out real soon.


[02:35:35] Ashley James: I will, yeah. It’s going to be episode 422. I’ll get it out next week, so listeners who are listening know that it’s really fresh. We’ll get it out there. Thank you so much, Eric, for coming on the show. As always, it’s a pleasure.


[02:35:49] Eric Thorton: Thank you. Thank you. It’s been great.


Get Connected With Eric Thorton!

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Recommended Reading by Eric Thorton

Educating the Souls, Spiritual Healing and our Eternal Psychology


Check out other interviews of Eric Thorton!

Episode 386: Microdosing Psilocybin Mushrooms Therapy

Episode 380: Understanding Your Aura

Episode 375: Spiritual Healing In The Real World

Episode 359: Lives Of Discovery

Episode 336: Energetic Boundaries (Part II)

Episode 335: Energetic Boundaries

Episode 327: Spiritual Healing

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Dr. Glenn Livingston & Ashley James


  • Use hard and fast rule when it comes to eating
  • Addictive patterns can be changed if you want to
  • Intervene and make rules for yourself that would dictate healthy behavior and eliminate decision-making
  • Eight-part protocol to stop nighttime eating
  • Control impulses with discipline


Are you finding yourself eating more and more throughout the day because there’s nothing much to do these days? Are you struggling with overeating or nighttime eating? In this episode, Dr. Glenn Livingston is back on the show with us, and he talks about his pig and pigula. He also shares some tips on how to overcome overeating


[0:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 423. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Dr. Glenn Livingston. Glenn was in episode 56, 249, and 231, so it’s been a while since you’ve been on the show. Although it just feels like yesterday. It’s amazing, time—although linear—doesn’t feel linear, does it Glenn?

Photo by Oscar Söderlund on Unsplash


[0:00:41] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It goes by so quickly. I think the last time I was on this show I had all my hair and teeth.


[0:00:48] Ashley James: And you still do?


[0:00:50] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I still do, yeah.


[0:00:52] Ashley James: Okay, good.


[0:00:55] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It was back in the days when I had all my hair and teeth. Time goes really quickly.


[0:01:02] Ashley James: Yes it does. When we had you on the show last—episode 231—you had just published your second book. Now listeners can get a free copy of your book Never Binge Again  by going to That’s Your book is fantastic. One of our listeners—I should have pulled up the actual quote in our Facebook group. We have a Learn True Health Facebook group. One of our listeners—after listening to episodes with you—said, “Tonight is the first night I ate dinner without anxiety.” She was like, “This is no kidding. I have never felt at peace while eating. This is my first experience feeling at peaceful while eating.” She made me cry. She was so grateful for the information.

Some people don’t even know their constant anxiety around food. There’s the constant pressure and stress around food, and all the emotions wrapped up around food, that’s their norm. When they go through your literature, your workshop, all your information, your free book they gain a sense of peace with food.


[0:02:21] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Does my heart good, really does my heart good. There’s misinformation in the culture about how to develop a peaceful relationship with food. Most people think we’re supposed to use guidelines like, “I avoid chocolate 90% of the time.” It’s a good guideline. It’s a good idea in theory. It’s like a good North Star to shoot for, but the problem with it is that every time you’re in front of a chocolate bar there’s this little voice inside you that says, “Is this part of the 10% or is this part of the 90%? Am I being good or am I being bad?”

It’s almost like having a little kid and they see a candy bar in your hand. “Mommy, can I? Mommy, can I? How about now? How about now? How about now?” Because they know that sometimes they can. Whereas if you use the hard and fast rule and you said, “Well, I’ll only ever have chocolate on the last three days of the calendar month.” You’d still be avoiding chocolate 90% of the time but your decisions would have been made for you, and there’d be no reason for that little kid to keep asking all month long until the 27th.

You’d have a newfound peace with food having made really hard and fast decisions about what role the chocolate was going to play in your life. You wouldn’t be constantly struggling with all these thoughts of maybe I should and maybe I shouldn’t, which is what ruins people’s relationship with food. I think that information is just that out there. When people adopt it, and they create a very clear rule, and they declare themselves confident they actually become confident. That voice shuts up eventually.


[0:04:06] Ashley James: To be able to have that peace where the voice isn’t all the time there. Some people have had that for so long they don’t even believe that’s possible. You’re saying that going through the work they can get to a place where that voice doesn’t control them anymore.


[0:04:22] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I suffered for 30 years. My life was about, “When am I going to get to the deli? When can I get to the pizza place? How much chocolate will I have? How will I stop? How will I make up for it? How will I hide the evidence? How much weight am I going to gain? Will anybody notice? Will I be able to see patients when I’m all charged up on chocolate?” That was my life. I’d be sitting with a suicidal patient and I’ll be thinking, “I want a chocolate Pop-Tarts.” Thankfully, I never lost anybody. I was really dedicated, but really I was not 100% present because I was very drained and distracted by these constant thoughts about food.

Once I discovered that there is a way to find peace, which it didn’t require me to solve all my emotional problems. Yeah, I was going to chocolate because I was lonely and depressed. I was in a bad marriage. I didn’t really have a lot of satisfaction in my life. That was all true, but it didn’t have to solve all that to stop bingeing on chocolate. I just had to be really clear about the rules, be clear about what that underlying voice of justification was that said, “You worked out hard enough so you can have chocolate even it’s not the last calendar three days of the month.” Or “Chocolate comes from a cocoa bean, which is a plant and therefore it’s a vegetable.” Or whatever that voice was saying.

Once I learned that I could hear that and ignore it or logically refute it, then I found peace. I wish I had love in my life. I wish I was coupled at this point. I still struggle with some of those things. I still have loneliness and brokenhearted moments and everything like that, but I don’t have to binge anymore.


[0:06:15] Ashley James: You don’t have to go to food to medicate it, to numb the pain of feeling lonely.


[0:06:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Yes, that’s true. I think that the self-medication paradigm is only half the story. I think that in it of itself it fuels overeating. The actual paradigm that I’m eating for comfort, I’m eating to numb myself out because I’m unhappy, and uncomfortable with my life, and it’s the only thing I’ve learned how to self-soothe. When people tell me that, for example, they’re eating too much chocolate to numb out, I’ll say, “That’s really interesting. Have you ever been to the dentist to fill a cavity?” They all say, “Yeah.” Because most people have had a cavity. I say, “Well, did the dentist say to you, ‘I’m out of novocaine. I think I’m going to inject you with some chocolate instead, is that okay?’”

The point of that is that chocolate is not really something that has a numbing effect. Donuts, dentist is not going to inject you with donuts either, or bagels, or potato chips, or any of the other things that people supposedly turn to for comfort. The point I’m trying to make is that there’s another impact of the artificially counterfeited sources of pleasure we call comfort. That impact is a food high. You’re having chocolate because it’s a concentration of theobromine, and caffeine, and sugar, and fat, and vanilla, and all sorts of other good-tasting neurological stimulants that give you the feeling like you’re in love and really change your perception of the world like a drug.

It’s perfectly legal. I’ll fight for your right to do it if you want to do it. I’m not saying we have to eliminate chocolate, but it is a drug. Part of the reason that we’re having it is to get high with food. We’re not just numbing out we’re getting high with food. That is a paradigm people need to shift to if they really want to stop overeating. Because if you think you’re just eating for comfort or to numb yourself out, you’re going to want to be empathetic to that lizard brain voice inside of you. When it says, “Eat, eat, eat,” you’re going to go, “Here you go, poor baby. Poor baby, you need a hug.”

There are two problems with that. First of all, the part of the brain that responds to food addiction—which is the same part of the brain that’s responsible for the feast and famine response, for the fight-or-flight response—it’s a very primitive reptilian part of the brain. When it evolved, it didn’t really know love. Here we are thinking that food addiction has everything to do with not being loved enough, not offering yourself enough self-love, but the lizard brain doesn’t really know love. It looks at something in the environment and it says, “What am I supposed to do with that thing? Do I eat it, do I mate with it, or do I kill it?” That’s the level—that’s the primitive level—at which the lizard brain operates. We’re all here trying to love it out of its impulse.

What we should be doing is dominating it instead. It’s like your bladder. Your bladder forces for expression. It says, “You really got to pee. You got to pee right now.” You say, “Oh, wait a minute. I’m in charge. I’m in a meeting now. I’ll definitely take care of you later, but I’m going to do it in a particular way at a particularly time of my choosing.” I’m very comfortable with that impulse, not at all frightened of it. I know that I’ll give myself a bathroom break in an hour and a half or so if I need it or sooner if I have to. As a civilized human being, I go about my day. I don’t compulsively pee in the street or in the middle of a meeting.

People are very mixed up about how you’re supposed to handle the impulse to overeat. They don’t think of it is a pure biological impulse that they’ve developed a very bad habit around. They think of it as the manifestation of an emotional conflict. They think of it as associated with all these loving memories with their mother, or the grandparents, or their dad. As a result, you could spend 30 years in psychotherapy trying to work through all your innermost conflicts. You might get a lot of benefit out of working through your innermost conflicts in psychotherapy, but if you’re like me, I did that. I became a very soulful person. I think it’s a big part of who I am, but it didn’t stop me from overeating.

I binge my way through 30 years of psychotherapy. That’s why I think we need to shift paradigms from self-medication to getting high with food and from the love yourself thin paradigm to the alpha wolf paradigm which says, “Look, this thing in my brain—this primitive part of my brain, my feast or famine response—it’s challenging me for leadership in the same way that a lower member of a wolf pack might challenge the alpha wolf. When the alpha wolf is challenged in a wolf pack—challenge for leadership—it doesn’t say, “Oh my goodness. Someone needs a hug. Come here you, poor baby. Let me take care of you. Let me feed you.”

The alpha wolf growls, and snarls, and says, “Get back in line or I’ll kill you.” My big discovery was that I had to break out of this love myself thin paradigm and into this alpha wolf paradigm where I just refuse to let my lizard brain take control.


[0:12:19] Ashley James: This part of the brain that is responsible for mating, killing, and eating for survival because that’s all we have to do to make sure that we can pass on our genetic code to the next generation. Eat to stay alive, and mate to reproduce, and then kill to survive, and eat. Why does that part of the brain want to overeat? Why doesn’t everyone overeat?


[0:12:54] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Most people do overeat at times beyond their best judgment. There are other people who choose other vices. People do too much marijuana, or they get involved in negative sexual relationships, or they get involved with gambling, or some other type of impulsive vice. Most people struggle with the lizard brain’s expression in some way. What was the first part of the question again? Why doesn’t everyone overeat? Ask me the question again, I’m sorry.


[0:13:28] Ashley James: That part of the brain that’s responsible for us to mate, eat, and kill—that very basic instinctive level—why does it want to binge?


[0:13:42] Dr. Glenn Livingston: There are several reasons. It’s a really good question. They all involve the idea that a biological error has been made. The reptilian brain has been made to think and made to really believe that the binge food is like oxygen and it’s required for survival. If you think about where we evolved in the tropics—kind of depends upon your theory of the world, I’ve done a lot of reading on nutrition and the human diet—and I really believe that we were evolved to eat mostly fruit, leafy greens, and an occasional handful of nuts or seeds. That’s what I think we really evolved to. Some people would add wild game in there.

It’s very rare that you see people bingeing on fruit and leafy green vegetables—whole, fresh, ripe for our fruits and leafy green vegetables—very few people binge on that. Most people binge on industrially concentrated foods. A bag of potato chips, or pizza, or pasta, or some concentrated form of starch, or sugar, or fat, or salt, or excitotoxins that wouldn’t be found in nature, is triggering the part of a brain that says, “This is where you can find an ultra-dense source of calories and nutrition,” even though the nutrition isn’t really there.

The brain makes a biological error, and it says, “Well, why would I continue going after fruits and vegetables when there are so many more calories available for so much less effort in such a much smaller space over here.” Then these things are made to be convenient, and they’re packaged up to look like they’re nutritious. One of my classic stories is working with the VP of Marketing for a major food party manufacturer.

They told me that their most profitable insight was to take the vitamins out of the bar and put the money into making the packaging look very diverse and colorful instead because in nature, a shiny diversity of colors would indicate a diversity of nutrition that was available. Think of a salad with purple cabbage, and yellow carrots, and deep green arugula, or spinach, or romaine lettuce, or something like that, and blueberries, and cherries, whatever you want to put in that salad. Those colors are a signal for a diversity of nutrients that are available.

What this guy was telling me was that they actually figured out a way to trigger the part of the brain that responds to that diversity of nutrients but they did it with less nutrients. That happens all over the place. The brain finds the calories. If I see calories and so it says, “There’s got to be something.” It says, “Well, wait a minute. There’s not enough nutrition.” It creates this pleasurable but empty experience. That’s why I say people are looking for love at the bottom of a bag, or a box, or container. You can’t ever really find satisfaction there, but you can find craving that creates more craving that creates more craving. That’s what drug addicts would call chasing the dragon.

You can’t really get to the satiation level and so you just keep craving more and more and more. There’s this loop of confusion. What tends to happen is because the brain has made this biological error and is now going after the wrong stimulus, it’s not actually getting the nutrition that it needs which sets up more craving. Since the brain has now learned that it’s supposed to go after this alternate source of craving, it starts to down-regulate its interest in fruits and vegetables where the real nutrition is. Most people who are struggling with obesity or overeating will say they don’t really love fruits and vegetables.

They know you have to eat more fruit and vegetables to really lose weight but they don’t love them. It’s just a downward cycle. Then the advertising is really strong to support that notion. The addiction treatment industry says that you can’t quit even if you want to. The best you could do is abstain one day at a time, which is not true. People can change their addictive patterns if they want to. It’s nothing more than a very, very, very bad habit that’s in a very, very, very well worn [inaudible 00:18:57]. The experience of addiction is the experience of powerlessness. You really believe that you don’t have a choice, but you do have a choice. That’s what’s going on in our world today.

I’ll give you a very practical solution. You probably find that after you eat your binge food that you’re presently thinking about the next time you’re going to have the binge food and you’re craving shifts more towards that food. If you want to retrain your biology to crave what it’s supposed to crave, if you force yourself to have—assuming there’s no medical reason that you can’t have, there are some people who can’t have greens—but if you throw away half-pound of leafy green vegetables—I like romaine lettuce or sometimes with kale juice—you throw that in the blender with some water and you drink it down like it was a vitamin just like medicine, you’ll find that suddenly you’re craving the binge food less.

The reason for that is you’re showing your survival drive that genuine nutrition is actually available and you’re showing where it’s available. It stops the obsession. It’s another way that you find more peace with food. Part of the philosophy is to intervene and make rules for yourself that would dictate healthy behavior and eliminate decision-making, like we talked about before. The other half of this to figure out, “What is the biological error that my brain isn’t making, and what does my body with authentically need instead?”

That’s why I always say that I got off of chocolate, not just by saying, “I’ll never have chocolate again.” I started out with 90% of the time, but I eventually evolved to never having it again. I didn’t really do it just by saying, “I’ll never have chocolate again.” I also did it by running to a banana kale smoothie whenever I had the chocolate craving.


[0:21:08] Ashley James: Even if people say, “Oh, I hate vegetables,” or, “I don’t like vegetables,” or whatever. You take it like a medicine, suck it up, and throw it in a blender, and drink it fast, or whatever. It’s telling the brain, “Here’s where the good nutrition is,” and then you start getting less and less cravings. Sometimes, people start noticing that they’re craving kale, they’re craving greens, they’re craving oranges, and tomatoes. They just start craving plants because that’s where the majority of our minerals and pretty much all of our vitamins are going to come from. By eating whole plants, we could retrain our brain, but that’s where the nutrition is going to come from. Of course. They have created Frankenfoods that hijack the brain because salt, sugar, and fat all trigger the brain to want more of it. They figured out how to hijack it.

I interviewed a woman—I might have mentioned this before in a previous interview with you—but I interviewed a woman who called herself a food sommelier because she was actually a chemist who for many years worked in the food industry—something like four Doritos, one of those companies. There’s this new flavor of—I’m just going to say Doritos because it’s one of these brands that’s like Pringles or something. Everyone knows this brand—Cheetos—whatever it was.

Her team was responsible for creating new flavors. They did experiments and they were very excited about this. I asked, “Was there any point like an evil like maniacal overlord come down from the CEO office who clearly had a pact with Satan. Like there’s some evil about these companies. They really want to hurt people. Was there ever a time where you felt like there’s this evil agenda?” She said, “No. The scientists geek out on how can we make this food craveable? How can we make this food addictive? How can we make this food trigger the brain even more, hype up the excitement centers of the brain even more? How can we make this food be edible crack?”

They weren’t looking at the ethicacy at all. They were encouraged and they were rewarded for making something fun. They felt like they were making an amusement park for the mouth. This is innocent and it’s very compartmentalized. These scientists work together and they got so excited when they could figure out that the certain chemical makeup—this new chemical makeup, new flavor, new type of oil mixed with some kind of hybridized salt and sugar could trigger us in an even more addictive way. Then the food company gets so excited because they’re making lots of money and people are you know wanting to eat more and more of it. Then the scientists feel like they’ve done the job.

She eventually left that company coming to her wits, coming back to reality, realizing that she was a part of a system that was definitely creating harm in the world when she looked around and realized that one in three people are obese, or have diabetes, and we’re going down the wrong path. She started getting into whole foods and started getting into plants, but she saw that you could then take the same principles as they did in the lab and apply it to eating healthy food. How can I make this kale be so delicious and so healthy? We can. We can do that.

We have to understand that these packaged foods are delicious for a reason. They have scientists who study our brains and figure out how to make us be addicted to it. It’s like the cigarette industry and the alcohol industry. I just feel like maybe 100 or 500 years from now, eventually, they will have the same restrictions, the same warning on packaged food as they do on cigarettes. It’s already happened in California. People are going to get it. We’re going to wake up one day. People have to wake up one day and see that these packaged foods are harming them and they’re trying to hijack that part of our brain that wants to overeat.

It’s our responsibility to be in control of our brains. You give us the tools on how to do that in a very systematic way. One thing I wanted to address is something you brought up in a past interview. It was a really big aha moment for me and for many listeners. You’ve talked about your story and how you have a memory that made you love chocolate or had you associate chocolate with love. Then you spent years and years trying to heal it, and years in therapy, but when you figured out your system for just being in charge of, like you said, the alpha wolf. Just commanding the urges in you and being able to override it and logically have rules set up so that in your mind you control it.

You noticed that it didn’t matter whether you’d healed the past or not because you could stop bingeing without actually having to do the work. Although doing the work is very rewarding and we should all invest on our own personal growth. What I got was that in the brain—let’s say it’s some event that you associate love with chocolate when you’re 5 or whatever—that root cause is still in there with all the work to be done on it. But then you start a habit of eating chocolates—let’s say overeating or binge eating. That habit—although may have originally come from this root cause when you’re five—actually separates from it in your mind and they become two separate things.

So if you heal the root cause—you heal that thing that happened when you were 5—you still have the ingrained habit. So it’d be two separate things. For so many people, we’re told that if only you heal the root cause then you would stop doing these behaviors, but it’s not the case. The hardwired behaviors that we need to override and reprogram ourselves become separate things from their root cause. We should work on both. Let’s first work on gaining control of the system and then doing hours or years of therapy to heal.


[0:28:33] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It’s like if there’s a raging fire in your house the first thing you do is not to say, “Well, who set the fire? How did this fire start?” You don’t want to spend a year figuring out how the fire started. You don’t want to be a detective at that point, you want to be a fireman. You want to put out the fire. Then, if you want to go look and figure out what caused the fire that’s okay. The fire has a life of its own once it’s burning. You need to put out or contain the fire. That makes sense?


[0:29:06] Ashley James: Absolutely.


[0:29:08] Dr. Glenn Livingston: What I wanted to say—which really struck me—was the idea that there’s some evil CEO who’s coming down and saying, “Yes, I will take the blood and tears of all of these people that I’m addicting so I can laugh all the way to the bank.” How it’s not really like that. It’s a byproduct of the capitalist economic system. Winston Churchill once said that capitalism was the worst form of government except for all the others. I don’t know of a better form of government than capitalism, but I do know that it puts the onus on the consumer to be aware of what the motivations of the people on the other side of the transaction are.

Of course, scientists who are getting rewarded for geeking out on how to maximally excite these centers of the brain are going to focus their life energy on doing that. They’re thinking even of themselves as good people. They’re saying, “This is just really fun. Anything in moderation is okay.” Ignoring the fact that they’re making it difficult for anyone to moderate it. What you also need to know is that the market as a whole—consumers in particular—they like good news about their bad habits. They’re asking to be lied to.

They want and they want an excuse to have as many calories in the smallest places possible for the least amount of money possible. They want to be told that it’s healthy. That’s why you could find some potato chip that’s made with avocado oil, and people think that that’s healthy for you. They ignore the fact that every study that’s ever done on heated fats says that it’s carcinogenic. That the acrylamides that were formed by frying the chip are also carcinogenic. That the particular kind of oil—once it’s fried—might clog your arteries anyway.

Say, “Now with avocado oil.” They want to say, “Avocados are healthy. I could do some avocado oil.” It’s very easy to get that by consumers because consumers want to be lied to. Where this leaves us is with the necessity of doing some serious thought for ourselves. An investigation into what’s healthy, what’s not, and then where’s your personal line. Everybody draws a line between live fast and die young—the Hell’s Angels philosophy or I think James Dean said, “Live fast die young and leave a good-looking corpse. Live slow and enjoy the ride.”

Most people will say, “Well I don’t want to be an angel and if I died five years earlier or if I suffer a little at the end of my life because of the choices I make in my 20s then I want to enjoy my 20s more. I think that’s okay. Everybody’s got the right to make that choice, but you need to think through what trade-offs are you making and what role do you want these foods to play in your life? I’m not saying we should never have chocolate. There are a lot of people who can have chocolate on the weekends. My sister can take two little squares out of her purse and say, “I’m going to fold the wrist up for later.” She puts it all back in her purse. I don’t understand how she does it but she does that. God bless her. She likes the trade-off. It works for her.

Certain chocolates are better than other chocolates. There’s dark chocolate, and there’s chocolate with dairy chocolate, without dairy. I’m not a nutritionist, I’m not going to make those arguments. What I’m saying is that you can’t rely on industry and government to protect you from their profit motive that is an industry and government. You really need to think through what role you want these foods to play for yourself. You need to investigate to figure out what the truth really is because the more you investigate, the more surprised you’re going to be at what’s actually healthy versus what you’re being told is healthy.

That’s why I love the brand of your show by the way—Learn True Health. We’re just in a situation where it’s a perfect storm. Part of it is because we’ve really embraced freedom. You really can’t have a free country without the capitalist system. You can’t have it be overly controlled. A byproduct of a capitalist industry is things that are not necessarily good for the populace, they’re desired for the populace. Industry will make whatever’s most desirable, not whatever is healthiest. It’s up to you as the consumer to decide where that healthy line is for yourself.

 Photo by Charisse Kenion on Unsplash


[0:34:12] Ashley James: We must vote with our fork. There was once a time when there is some weird hormone. There’s four letters like HR something BC or whatever. I can’t remember the name of it right now, but it’s on all the dairy products. It says no such-and-such a hormone. I don’t buy dairy products. I’ve been dairy-free for a long time. If I did buy dairy products I’d probably know this name, but this hormone used to be in all the dairy because they would put it in all the cows. They would basically hop the cows up.

They do give cows other things that are in your milk that are very, very scary, but this one particular hormone was shown to cause negative health results to humans. It was passed on through the milk and then whoever was drinking it or eating the dairy products was getting that hormone. It was making it so they could make more milk. The industry wanted to keep this hormone in, but the consumers didn’t. Now, how do you think us as individual consumers changed the entire dairy industry?

We voted with our fork. The largest a voice in that will surprise you—Walmart. Walmart noticed that their consumers were not buying the dairy products—significantly less sales were going on with the dairy that had the hormone in it. So Walmart was one of the companies that lobbied to only provide the hormone-free—this specific hormone-free dairy. As a result—because we voted with our fork—the companies took notice and they followed the trend.

We have to—as individuals and also—spread this information. We as individuals need to vote with our fork because it does matter because these companies will follow suit. So just to recap, when we have cravings, we can take food—maybe we don’t necessarily like kale. I use kale as an example because some people really hate it. We can take a healthy vegetable and feed it to ourselves even though we don’t like it. We’re adults, we can suck it up for the three minutes we’re tasting the flavor. We can just do it.


[0:36:38] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It can be three seconds in the case of a blender full of romaine lettuce and a little water. You can get a half a pound of romaine lettuce into you in three seconds if you blend it up and drink it down.


[0:36:50] Ashley James: So for the seconds that we’re tasting it what we’re really doing is retraining our neurology to start enjoying or to get that the nutrients are actually coming from over here and then you’ll start to enjoy it more. I had this experience with kale, never really liked kale, and then my friend started making it. So I started trying it because in the last few years it’s been the superfood. Then I started noticing that when I saw kale in the grocery store I’d have a Pavlovian response that I’d actually start salivating. I think about kale, “Oh, I’m going to make a kale boat for lunch,” and then I start salivating.

I noticed that my body was actually getting excited at the thought of having kale. I make this great kale boat where I take Dino kale, which can be like a taco, and then I do some kind of stir-fry sometimes with maybe a handful of cashews, and some beets, and some celery, and some cabbage, and mushrooms and some seasoning like taco seasoning or whatever, and maybe some onions. Just stir fry it up, and then you put it in the kale like it’s a taco, and then you eat it. It’s very crunchy. It has lots of beautiful flavors.


[0:38:03] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’ll be right over. I’ll be right over.


[0:38:05] Ashley James: It’s so good.


[0:38:06] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’m on my way.


[0:38:08] Ashley James: Then I just started eating kale raw. I remember not liking it like just detesting that the taste of kale, and now I actually love the taste of kale. I’ve witnessed this. I think I’m picky with a lot of things, and I’ve just noticed that my palate has really changed because I forced myself to just eat it. Because I thought, “Okay, this is a superfood. It’s healthy. I got to get into me.” But then my palate changed. I also cut out the foods that contained the chemical, salt, sugar, oil because I knew about how much they’re hijacking my brain and they weren’t good anyway. I just noticed that over time, my palate changed, and my cravings changed, and my neurology changed. I really had that experience that you’re describing, which is really exciting.


[0:38:59] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Has doing your podcast changed your life? It sounds like doing your podcast changed.


[0:39:03] Ashley James: Yeah. I think I share a lot in the show about my experience of how it has changed, how I’ve evolved. I’ve always been on a road of personal growth. My whole life I’ve been really excited about personal growth. Before the podcast, I healed type-2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and infertility. I did that with natural medicine. That’s why I started the podcast because I healed so many things. We have a healthy five-year-old. I was told by an endocrinologist I would never have kids. I was completely infertile.

We conceived naturally with only natural medicine, with food, and supplements. Supplements being herbs, and vitamins, and minerals, not specific for conceiving but just to create health. To be able to basically go against all these MDs that said I would always be diabetic, I would always have polycystic ovarian syndrome, I would always be infertile that’s what they said. If I believe them and listen to them I would not have our child. I would not be happy. I don’t even know if I’d still be alive.

So using food as medicine and supplements to fill in the gaps when needed, that changed my life so much that I want to start the podcast to help others. I knew that it wasn’t just physical. It had to be emotional and mental because I recognized that I had overeating, and binge eating, and that there was emotional stuff around that, there are other factors. We’re not separated. Our emotional and mental body affect our physical body and vice versa. So we have to just get that true health is about all aspects of our life, and wanting to improve them, and seeking the information to improve them, and being willing to try new things. So every time I interview someone it’s like I’m trying new things and implementing them in my life.


[0:41:13] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I love it.


[0:41:14] Ashley James: Your work has been monumental. You really, really help me. Actually, listeners can check out your podcast because I was on your show. You did your system, like a little taste test of your system.


[0:41:27] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I coached you for a session.


[0:41:29] Ashley James: Yeah, you coach me for a session. You helped me breakthrough something that I felt like I had no control over. In one session—it was very cool. Listeners can hear that. Give a plug, what’s the name of your podcast?


[0:41:47] Dr. Glenn Livingston: You could find that at—just go to and click on the blog and all the podcast episodes are there. If you go to and you sign up for the book, you’ll get copies of full-length coaching sessions that I did where you can not only hear me coach Ashley but other people too. It’s all free. That’s over there.


[0:42:11] Ashley James: Cool. So and then you sign up for the free book. Then in addition to the free book, you’re getting recordings of these coaching sessions.


[0:42:22] Dr. Glenn Livingston: You get recordings of the coaching sessions, you get free food plans starter templates for every type of dietary philosophy—low carb, high carb, vegan, point counting, calorie counting. We’ll show you sample rules that people use for different dietary philosophies. So and sign up. That’s the best thing you can do. Click on the big red button, sign up for the reader bonuses, and you’ll get a free copy of the book, and you’ll get the coaching sessions, and you’ll get all the other goodies.


[0:42:56] Ashley James: Nice. When we had you on the show last—episode 231—so it’s been a while, I can’t believe it. It’s been just under 200 episodes ago. That doesn’t even sound right. I’m friends with Glenn on Facebook since I had him on the show the first time. I guess I just felt like I had interviewed you more recently since I feel like we talk every day through Facebook. By the way, Glenn is a really fun person to follow on Facebook. He’s got probably the best Facebook posts I have out of every single person I’ve ever followed. I’m serious, I’m serious.

Your posts are so fun, and sometimes very insightful, and sometimes very silly, but they’re always really beautiful. So I appreciate that. While everyone is complaining, and griping, and there’s so much drama in the world, you bring such a lightness to it that’s also sometimes very contemplative. It’s light. I definitely encourage people to follow Glenn Livingston on Facebook as well. Since we had you on the show of many moons ago you had just published your second book. You have done a lot since then. Update us, what’s been going on in the world of Glenn Livingston since then?


[0:44:25] Dr. Glenn Livingston: The first book contains everything you need to stop overeating, it really does. Like I said, you can get a free copy of it on the site where we told you. What I found though—after I published the book—there was a great desire for coaching. At first, I started doing the coaching, and then I developed a program, and then I had coaches that were coaching underneath me or with me—it’s more accurate—who I train and supervise. We heard all these very specialty stories like, “I managed to never binge again with everything except for nighttime eating. I can do really well until 10 o’clock at night and then I blow it,” or “I’m really good except when I have my period,” or “I have the hardest time when I’m traveling. I have the hardest time when I’m super, super tired.”

We recognized that there was a need for a book about very specific situational triggers, so we wrote a book called 45 Binge Trigger Busters. That’s probably the most popular alternate book that we’ve written so far, but then we wrote a book on nighttime eating. I say we, I have a business partner. I’m the primary author for most of the books, but he really does help me tremendously. His name is Yoav Ezer. He’s the CEO of my company. I’m old enough and mature enough to know that I don’t make a good CEO. I’m more of a mad scientist, and psychologist, and a marketer.

We wrote a book about nighttime overeating, which has some very specific protocols associated with it that seemed to help. We wrote a workbook for people who either couldn’t afford the coaching program or were more do-it-yourself kind of people. That actually has turned out to be—we just launched it about a month ago. It’s been extremely popular. I had no idea how much even demand there was for a workbook in the market, but we thought through a lot of the exercises we were doing with coaching clients, we put it in there. Whatever books did I write? I wrote my autobiography as it pertains to food called Me, My Pig, and I.


[0:46:46] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, that’s so cute. Did you come up with that one yourself?


[0:46:53] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I came up with that myself, yeah.


[0:46:53] Ashley James: Did you come up with the title before you wrote the book? Did you have an aha moment? I want to know, how did you come up with that one?


[0:47:02] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Jim Carrey has a movie called Me, Myself and I and it happened to be on Netflix or something as I was writing the book. I said, “That’s it. It’s Me, My Pig, and I.”


[0:47:14] Ashley James: Love it. Isn’t it Me, Myself and Irene or something?


[0:47:18] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Is that what it is?


[0:47:19] Ashley James: Something like that, yeah. I think so. I saw it ages ago. But that’s so cute. If they haven’t heard the past episodes, tell us a bit about the pig for those who haven’t heard about it.


[0:47:34] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I went through the whole story in this episode about the difference between loving yourself thin and being an alpha wolf that takes charge. The way that I took charge was I decided to call my reptilian brain my inner pig. This was before I was a vegan or knew anything about the treatment of pigs in the world or anything like that. It was not something I was going to publish. It was going to be a private journal—just my way to overcome my own food problem. I named it my inner pig.

I would make a rule that says, “I’ll never have chocolate Monday to Friday.” Then if I heard a little voice on my head that said, “Come on, Glenn, you worked out hard enough,” even though it’s a Wednesday. “You’re not going to gain any weight, you might as well.” I would say, “That’s not me, that’s my pig. I don’t want chocolate. Chocolate is pig slop during the week. I don’t eat pig slop. I don’t let farm animals tell me what to do. Stop squealing. Go back to your cage.” That’s how I got better.

All the years of sophisticated psychology—for the people that don’t know, I was also a corporate consultant. I was doing these million-dollar projects. I was publishing all these papers. I was on TV and radio. I had all these sophisticated things to say, and I think I’m a compassionate person. I’m joking around a little with you today, but I usually come off as more compassionate. The way that I recover was to say, “I don’t eat pig slop. I don’t let farm animals tell me what to do.” It would wake me up at the moment of impulse, and it would give me this extra microseconds to remember who I was and why I wanted to make that rule in the first place.

It wasn’t a miracle. Sometimes I make the wrong decision anyway, but it eradicated the sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. It eradicated the sense of you failed a thousand times before so you’re going to fail forever. I started to feel like I have the ability to make choices. I made choices and I got better. If you look at my top weight versus about where I am now, it’s about 80 pounds different. My triglycerides went way down and my psoriasis and rosacea went away.

I developed the ability to stick to the plan that I would make for myself. I wouldn’t take anybody else’s diet or rules. I don’t recommend anybody take my diet or rules. I guide people in the principle to autonomously decide what they want to eat and how to stick to it. That’s where the pig comes from. You don’t have to call it a pig. I kind of wish that I didn’t in retrospect.


[0:50:12] Ashley James: No, I think it’s brilliant. I think it’s brilliant. Some people could get confused because they have a different perception of pig. Of course, you’re using the Western stereotype of the pig that just binges, and just can never get enough, can never be satiated. It’s also used as a negative insult, but that for you was a break state. That allowed you to just stop the old pattern long enough to take control.


[0:50:47] Dr. Glenn Livingston: But you can call it your food monster or your food demon. What you don’t want to do, you don’t want to think of it as a wounded inner child or a cute pet. It’s not an alternative part of your personality. You’re not trying to reintegrate this. Most forms of psychology will say, “You need to own your shadow. You need to look at these disowned parts of yourself and recognize that this is part of you and love it also. That way you won’t be so frightened of it and it won’t be able to act out on its own.”

That’s not the solution that worked for me. The solution was to disavow these impulses. To define pig squeal as any thought, feeling, or impulse would suggest that I will ever break my rules between now and the day that I died. By definition a squeal is destructive. Why would I want to identify with those destructive urges?

I cast that out of my identity. I assigned all doubt on uncertainty about my ability to stick with the plan. I got a lot of this from Jack Trimpey, by the way. He wrote a book called Rational Recovery. I had to remodify an awful lot of things to make it work for food. I found that that empowered me to develop a success identity because all of these destructive thoughts were no longer me. They were just neurological junk as Kathryn Hansen says, and I became a different person.

After a while, it was not just white-knuckling it and sticking to rules. It was changing my identity about the kind of person that I was with chocolate, and pasta, and pizza. I didn’t have to think about it after a while. Just like the first couple of months you’re learning how to drive. You’ve got a concentrate on the rules or road, but then after a while, you can daydream, and listen to music, and talk to your friends.

I want to tell you a funny story about the pig. The one place that it’s not good that I really wish it didn’t—people don’t always know my name because the idea of pig, and pig slop, and I don’t eat pig slop, and I don’t let farm animals tell me what to do. That’s so salient that they think of me as, “Oh, he’s that doctor who has a pig inside him.” Once in a while—I used to like to do this if I go on a first date or something—I’ll be in a bookstore and someone will come up to me look start pointing like I’m familiar to them but they don’t know my name. They just go, “Pig guy, pig guy, pig guy.”


[0:53:15] Ashley James: This happened when you’re on a date?


[0:53:17] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Yeah.


[0:53:18] Ashley James: No way. Tell me. Tell me what happened.


[0:53:21] Dr. Glenn Livingston: She thought it was funny and I explained it to her. It’s not really the impression you want to make on your first date.


[0:53:27] Ashley James: Did you guys go out on a second date?


[0:53:29] Dr. Glenn Livingston: No, but I wouldn’t have gone out with her a second time either. I hope she doesn’t hear this.


[0:53:37] Ashley James: It’s all for the greater good. It’ll all work out in the end. I really do believe that there’s some kind of serendipity that happens. The universe sometimes—it all plays out for a reason.


[0:53:54] Dr. Glenn Livingston: She was not an awful person or anything, we just were not a good match.


[0:53:58] Ashley James: Right, right, right. It’s so funny that you’ve been known as the pig guy. Glenn Livingston’s a really easy name to recall—for me at least.


[0:54:09] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Dr. Livingston, I presume.


[0:54:11] Ashley James: Yes. Of course, of course.


[0:54:15] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Something you’ve never said, thank God.


[0:54:17] Ashley James: Dr. Livingston?


[0:54:19] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Dr. Livingston, I presume.


[0:54:21] Ashley James: I presume that’s who you are. Sure.


[0:54:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’m older than you. I’m older than you. There’s a famous story about an explorer that goes to Africa named Dr. Livingston. When his assistant/friend finally finds him he says, “Dr. Livingston, I presume.” Ever since I was a kid there are about eight doctors in the family.


[0:54:46] Ashley James: Oh, people are using that. I have a friend named Forrest and he actually loved the Forrest Gump movie. He grew up with it and everyone used to yell, “Run, Forrest, run.” He thought it was funny. I’m just surprised he didn’t grow up scarred from it.


[0:54:59] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Because by the 47th time someone else says it you think, “No one else ever said that to me before ever.”


[0:55:09] Ashley James: When you talked about your inner pig in our past interviews I actually got the name of my inner thing right away. It just came to me that I have an inner brat. She’s an inner brat.


[0:55:23] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I remember that.


[0:55:25] Ashley James: Right. She wants what she wants when she wants it. She’s like a little nasty five-year-old that is hopped up on sugar. She throws tantrums—little inner brat. When you made that distinction it was like the light went on like, “Oh, okay. I have a little inner brat. I need to tell her, ‘No, we’re not having a second serving of pasta or we’re not going to go through the drive-thru. We’re going to eat kale. You’re going to enjoy a kale smoothie and you’re going to stop nagging me.’” It’s been very clear to me that by putting it in that context—and you said like with the pig.

It’s good to like make it a little bit comical because I feel like it’s part of that break state and part of you getting control back. But like you said, it’s not about reintegrating, it’s not about loving it. It is a part of our brain that wants to kill things, eat things, and sleep with things. The thing is we can’t, like you said, you don’t pee on the street or pee in a meeting. You have control of your body. Good, good, good that you do, but we also don’t run around just having sex in the street or killing people—thank God. I’m knocking on wood here. That we all keep control of these urges, but the one urge that we let go is food because it’s socially acceptable.

If we say that bingeing is that same part of the brain that wants to just mate with everything it’s like, “Okay. Well, I’ve been able to my entire life control the urge to just randomly mate with something in the street or kill someone just because they made me angry. I’ve easily, easily been able to control that and I can figure out how to control that urge to overeat because that’s part of the same mechanism.”


[0:57:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It’s just another element of being a civilized person in society.


[0:57:29] Ashley James: Right. Yeah. Tell me more about this not eating at night or this nighttime eating because that’s the thing I’ve been working. I’ve heard people say—guests have said on the show—we only have a certain amount of willpower. I think even you talked about it. By 11:00 PM we have no more willpower left. For me, I’ll eat really healthy during the day, but if I’m staying up past a certain hour I get hungry again and then it’s like the willpower is not there.


[0:58:04] Dr. Glenn Livingston: There’s an eight-part protocol that we came up with after having—we paid some researchers to do an exhaustive secondary research survey, look at all the research that’s been done. Then we did our own research into our own population. We did either surveys, and we talked to everybody. We figured out that there were actually eight things that people were doing who successfully stopped eating after a certain time at night. The first one was they knew the difference between nighttime and daytime. This sounds kind of silly but there was a very clear demarcation point.

If you think about a vampire movie, the characters always know the difference between sundown and the daytime. They know when the sun sets. There’s a variety of activities that they go through. They might put garlic on the door. They might pour salt around the house. They might prepare their secret wooden stake weapons or something like that. They might post a [inaudible 00:59:09] at the door. The heroes in a vampire movie—and the music always changes when the sun is down and the mood of the movie is much different because everyone’s on high alert. There’s a very clear demarcation point and there’s a ritual that people go through in order to punctuate that demarcation point.

We found that the people who were successful, they adopted some type of ritual. It wasn’t necessarily at the same time every day. It could be as soon as dinner was done. Some people will say, “I’ll stop eating at 8:000 every night unless dinner doesn’t start before 7:00,” and then they’re allowed to go a half-hour later or something. There’s a ritual. One of our customers Liv—I have permission to say all this. She claps her hands and she goes, “Dinner and done.” The dishes are away. She goes, “Dinner and done.” Saying that out loud ritualistically moves her from her lower brain to her upper brain. She knows that now she’s got to protect herself from we call it pigula. Pigula whispers at night.

The pig squeals during the day and pigula whispers at night. Pigula is more seductive. Then once you’ve done that ritual, another ritual could be clapping your hand three times as if you’re dusting them off and saying, “Kitchen is closed.” Other people have more physical rituals where they’ll change clothes, or take a shower, or go through a moisturizing routine, or do something to their body—which feels like it’s in a physically different state so they know that they’ve entered the decompression time living night time before bed when you start to let go of the day and wind down to go to sleep.

Those were the most obvious things that people were doing, but then we found that the people who were overeating at night—who stopped overeating at night—most of them had not been breakfast eaters beforehand. Most of them didn’t like to eat until they were 11:00, 12:00, 1:00 in the afternoon. They would say that they just don’t like breakfast, and part of the reason they don’t like breakfast is because they’re eating late at night and they’re too full in the morning. They discovered that they had to move their first meal to earlier in the day and that needed to be more substantial. They couldn’t let their pigula be saving calories for late at night. They needed to keep their blood sugar up in the morning, afternoon, and evening.

That was something that when we work with people, they have to force themselves to do this. It’s something that comes naturally to them, and most of them don’t want to. A matter of fact, a lot of people try to shut me up when I tell them that. A lot of people are very involved with intermittent fasting. I will tell them that—I don’t dispute the medical benefits of intermittent fasting. I think that it’s very valuable in many ways, but I prefer that if someone’s involved with binge eating that they don’t do that for six to twelve months after they recovered from the binge eating.

The reason is I think there’s an evolutionary mechanism in the brain that says, “If calories and nutrition are not available for a period of time when they are available we need to hoard them.” I think that’s the essence of the feast and famine environment that we evolved in. I think that overcoming binge eating involves signaling the body—and the brain in particular—that there’s a regular reliable course of nutrition and calories flowing through at all times. That’s part of why we’re finding the people that overcome nighttime overeating are eating more in the morning. They also have a more satisfying lunch.

We came up with a saying that says, “Add some crunch to your lunch.” Can you put some celery, or carrots, or peppers, or something that makes you feel like you’re actually chewing, and crunching, and getting some of that oral aggression out while you’re eating. I’m actually not joking. It is funny but it feels like a meal. It feels more like a meal. If you’re having a good solid breakfast, and you’re having some crunch with your lunch, by the time you get to dinner, you’re not quite as overwhelmed.

The other thing has to do with self-care. It goes along with the fact that there are only so many good decisions we can make during the course of the day. See, it turns out that your decision-making tank about food is also impacted by your decision-making tank about non-food items.


Photo by Ava Sol on Unsplash


[1:03:55] Ashley James: How so? That’s very interesting.


[1:03:57] Dr. Glenn Livingston: If I make you do math problems before I offer you a marshmallow, you’re more likely to have the marshmallow than if I didn’t make you do those math problems because I engaged you in thinking and decision-making about the right answer. If you’re spending an awful lot of time doing email during the day, every email is a decision, “Is this spam? Do I delete it? Do I delegate it? Is it critical? Do I have to respond now? Can I defer it?” There’s a lot of brain glucose that gets burned up while you’re figuring out what to do with each email.

If you’re living in an environment where you’re constantly impinged upon for decision making—and those kinds of decisions could involve, “Mommy, who’s taking me to soccer practice? Mommy, are we going to have pizza or hamburgers for dinner tonight?” If you’re constantly impinged upon to make decisions all day long, taking two ten-minute breaks during the day or even two five-minute breaks during the day where you put down your phone, and you turn off your computer, and you walk away from people, and you just breathe, or walk outside for a moment, and get away from all the input. Get away from all the input. Get away. Don’t make any decisions at all for ten minutes twice a day. You can restore the decision-making capability to a certain extent.

It would be better if you can go for a jog. It would be better if you could take a nap. It would be better if you could do something a little longer, but those two 10-minute breaks a day can make a difference. You’ll find that when you get home at night it’s easier. The other thing that people do is since our decision-making capability is worse at the end of the day than the beginning of the day, decide what’s for dinner and prepare it before you leave in the morning. Put it in Tupperware, have it sitting in your refrigerator so that when you get home you can just put it in the microwave and go to town. You don’t have to make any more decisions. You’re eliminating a lot of that willpower draining energy at night that you’re not good at.


[1:06:03] Ashley James: Delete the word microwave, replace with stove because I don’t promote microwaves.


[1:06:15] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I don’t even use the stove. I’m a raw vegan for people that don’t know. I don’t force this on people.


[1:06:24] Ashley James: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally, totally. I was just teasing because you’re like put it in Tupperware. I’m like, not plastic. Put it in a microwave, no microwave.


[1:06:31] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’m trying to speak in the language of the masses because I don’t want to put up too many barriers for people. I want them to stop bingeing first and foremost because if you stop having 20,000 calories a day and you microwave a bowl of brown rice and peas, I think you’re a lot better off.


[1:06:49] Ashley James: Yes.


[1:06:52] Dr. Glenn Livingston: But I agree with you, Ashley. Look, my ideal is that I eat fruit and leafy green vegetables. I actually have a dehydrator on top of my stove because I don’t use the stove. I don’t understand why people think that the byproducts of fire are good for us in any way, shape, or form. Didn’t we learn our lessons with cigarettes? It’s a whole different story, right? No microwaves, no stoves. If you were to come live with me for a month you’re going to be shocked.


[1:07:21] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. I think I’d love it. If you do all the food prep I think I’d love it. I was raw vegan for six days and it was great. I did it during the summer. Easy to find all the fresh produce, but I got bored with eating the same food over and over again. I got bored. So day seven I’m like, “Oh, man. If I have to eat another zucchini noodle bowl with marinara,” which was so delicious. I think I just figured out how to make one good dish and it was delicious. My husband was like, “I could eat this way the rest of my life,” but I don’t know if I’m cut out to do raw vegan but I definitely eat raw sometimes.


[1:08:04] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I don’t push that at all. I work with people on all sorts of diets.


[1:08:07] Ashley James: No, no, you don’t. You don’t. It’s interesting that some people find liberation in restriction. Back when I lived in Toronto, I was friends with a woman. I could see her face. I think her name was Jen—beautiful, wonderful woman. I was a teenager and she was in her 20s. We were taking a leadership program through Landmark Education where we had to meet once a month on the weekends. We met weekly on Tuesday nights. Saturday—for those of the Jewish faith—is the day of rest where you’re not supposed to do anything. You’re not supposed to carry anything but the Bible. You’re not supposed to drive a car, turn on a light switch, and she was transitioning to Orthodox.

She was going to marry an Orthodox Jewish man, and she was transitioning to Orthodox. She said, “I want to attend on Saturday but I have to walk if I want to go.” She lived on the other side of Toronto—the other side. I volunteered to walk with her. I got to her house before the sun rose, and we walked clear across all of Toronto and got there in time for our course. The whole time we talked about this because I was really fascinated. She was a dancer. She had long hair. She was very free and why was she going to choose to be in a relationship with a man where she had to shave her head, make a wig out of her own hair, never allow anyone to see her hair again, never dance with people other than women, never show any skin beyond the wrists or something like. Just the restriction after restriction.

Why was she happy and excited? Beyond the fact that she was in love with this man. She was actually excited to become an Orthodox Jew. She explained to me in our very long walk that in the amount of restriction—she was raised in a setting where she had no restrictions, and she was loose, and could do whatever—she found that she just ended up not really liking herself. But with these restrictions in her faith, it actually gave her more room to be who she was. She actually found more comfort in the rules that she decided to take on.

That twisted my mind because I always thought that freedom and no restrictions were the ultimate way to live, but people—in certain circumstances—find that restrictions forced them to become more creative, and more self-expressed, and feel more comfortable, and at ease. Your example is your system, you create rules around your food. That ends up giving you more freedom. It’s like restriction could equal freedom in a sense. It’s really neat.


[1:11:21] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I don’t think of it as restriction necessarily but you could. I’ve got a lot to say about this. Can I talk for a moment or two?


[1:11:28] Ashley James: Absolutely. Please do.


[1:11:30] Dr. Glenn Livingston: First of all, I believe that freedom sits on top of discipline, it’s not opposed to it. It’s only because of the discipline of the engineers who put together my car that when I turn the wheel 30 degrees to the right and I press on the gas pedal that it goes in that direction. I can open up my radius of locomotion and travel all over the city. It’s only because of the discipline of the city planners who put stoplights in the most dangerous intersections and yield signs in the ones that weren’t so dangerous. They organized it and really looked at the whole city in the way that was laid out that I can freely move about. It’s only because of my discipline, and having learned the rules of the road, and abiding by them that I can go about the day and do all that.

Anybody who’s more than 16 years old knows the tremendous freedom that comes once you learn how to drive, but there’s a discipline you have to develop first. It’s only because—I’m a jazz musician—I studied the scales exhaustively and I know the structure of music that I can improvise outside of them and express my soul. Jim Rohn said, “A life of discipline is much better than a life of regret.” What I think is that either you’re going to be free or your pig is going to be free. Either you’re going to be the master or the pig is going to be the master.

I want to be the master of my fate. In order to do that. I’ve got to accept the adult responsibility of controlling my impulses with discipline. It’s a fact of life and I think that people are confused about freedom versus discipline. They think that they’re giving something up. My pig could say, “You can’t give up chocolate, that’s way too boring. You can’t live without that stimulation and pleasure.” By giving up chocolate, I have largely lived free of any major health concern. I am 80 pounds thinner than I used to be. I could walk on the world as a thin, confident, healthy, handsome man, and be a leader in my field. I can hike a mountain a lot quicker, which means I get to spend more time on top enjoying the sunset, or the fresh air, or the view, or feeling the bit of hike a tall mountain was the feeling of owning the mountain when you get to the top.

It’s only because of all those disciplines that I thought I can do that. If I continue to eat chocolate, then I would be depriving myself of all of those things. It’s never really that we are depriving ourselves of pleasure. It’s a question of which pleasure are we depriving ourselves of, and have we made a fully informed choice? Well, because the pig will concentrate you on, will focus you on the short-term pleasure that you’re giving up. But that’s not all there is. There’s long term pleasure too.


[1:14:46] Ashley James: Instant gratification.


[1:14:48] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Right. Maturity involves recognizing that sometimes we sacrifice short-term pleasures to pursue longer-term pleasures. Sometimes we give up the roller coaster of highs and lows for more of a contented life. That’s the difference between going to an amusement park, and having these adrenaline rushes, and then having to wait in long lines between them versus floating down the river in a kayak, and enjoying the fresh air, and watching the breeze float the willows back and forth. As we get older and we mature, we usually opt for more of the contented sustainable pleasures in life rather than the fleeting pleasures that burn us out quickly.

We move more from the live fast and die young end of the continuum to the live slow and enjoy the ride, which is necessary when you get older because there were fewer years left, right? So you want to make them last as long as you can. The last thing I want to say, Ashley, about that is that your pig will tell you that boredom is intolerable. We live in a world of excessive stimulation. Go count the number of scene changes on any television show or movie. How many bombs, and naked women, or scantily clad women, or car chases, or fireworks are you seeing when you are looking at a coming attraction?

We’re led to believe that we need this constant input and constant overstimulation of our senses. The natural experience when you let go of that is the experience of boredom. When you experience life the way that it is meant to be, it seems boring because you don’t have all that stimulation. There’s just you, and there’s nature, and there’s other people, right? It takes a while for your nervous system to adjust to that. There’s a phenomenon called down-regulation, which means if you overstimulate the nervous system in some way you will stop responding.

If you live underneath the subway, after a couple of weeks you don’t hear the trains going by anymore, you sleep like a baby because your nervous system has been overstimulated and it doesn’t respond to that noise anymore. If you have a chocolate bar every day, you stop enjoying the taste of it as much as you did when you first started, you don’t get the same level of pleasure, and you certainly don’t get this pleasure from an apple like you used to. Thankfully that process reverses itself in a phenomenon called upregulation.

If you stop having sugar, for example, then within six to eight weeks your taste buds double in sensitivity, and your neurological system starts to produce the dopamine that it used to in response to apples, and produce, and that kind of stuff. The upshot of this is that the experience of becoming unaddicted from food is always the experience of going through boredom. On the other side of that are two things. First of all, there is the enjoyment of the way that life actually is. There’s a calming of the nervous system. There’s a satisfaction, and contentment, and peace that comes into your being.

We started this whole conversation by saying this woman has found peace at dinner when she never had that before. That’s on the other side of boredom, not that far away. Maybe six to eight weeks you start to feel that, but on the other side of that is your life purpose. See, when you’re not distracted by the overstimulation, then your libido—your life’s energy—can start to go into what’s really important to you. You’ll start to want to take on some other project.

Maybe that just means spending more time rolling around on the floor with your kids. Maybe it means tidying up the house. Maybe it means applying for a promotion. Maybe it means volunteering. I don’t know. For one way or another, you’re going to find yourself inspired to channel the pleasure-seeking energy that you used to channel into excessive taste stimulation. You’re going to channel it into things that feel very worthwhile to you. When you do that, pig slop looks pathetic. It’s much less interesting in contrast. So your pig doesn’t want you to get there so it says, “This is way too boring.”

Now the truth is, I don’t mean to push you to be a raw vegan. I don’t have any need for you to do that, but the people that do it successfully, they spend a lot of time researching at first—different ways to stimulate the senses with raw vegan things. There are all types of recipes. You can make where I’m eating pizza. You can make raw vegan mac and cheese. There are all kinds of things that you can do and they’re pretty darn good if you put the time, and energy, and you got the equipment to do it.

Over time, even that starts to seem too stimulating, and you gravitate towards what most people would think are very boring meals. More days than not, I have bananas and romaine lettuce for breakfast and lunch. More days than not. Then I’ll make myself some kind of special salad at dinner. I’m not bored at all with it. I really look forward to it. I don’t really want the excessive stimulation because then I spend more time thinking about food. Over the years, I’ve gotten so much more excited about all these other things that it doesn’t seem natural to me to find all my pleasure from food anymore.

I feel like I spent 30 years looking for all my pleasure in food. I want to spend the balance of my life making a difference and putting my energy someplace else, which is not to say I don’t get pleasure from food anymore, I do, but it’s not the same. I don’t have the same proportion of my libido dedicated to the food pleasure as I used to. Does that make sense?


[1:20:51] Ashley James: Absolutely. Everything you said, I was thinking about we’re all going through COVID-19 right now. This is what’s happening now, although people listen to these episodes even years after we record them because they’re still relevant information. At the moment, the whole world. I was just listening to Al Jazeera. I find listening to foreign news even more interesting than our news because you get like just a little bit of a different spin sometimes. There’s Artie. I like listening to many different news outlets and just seeing the different opinions, but there are countries that are shutting down in Africa.

There are several countries shutting down cities—completely shut down. There are some cities that made it illegal to travel. It’s just the crackdown is happening more and more. I’ve lived just outside of Seattle with my family so we’ve been in quarantine and only leave the house—well, we get out in nature go, go for walks. Even now, the governor of Washington is starting to say—he was saying like a week ago, “You can still go for a bike ride. You can still go for a walk.” A few days ago he said, “Don’t leave your house no matter what even if it’s just for essentials.” Now he’s saying don’t even go outside to walk your dog. It’s just getting to the point where people are people are stir-crazy.

Luckily we live in a house, but if I was living back in our old apartment, man I would be going nuts. I had no room in that apartment. I’m feeling, I’m feeling for the people who don’t have a yard to walk in. At least I can go in the backyard and garden. I can get in the sun. Our kid can run around.


[1:22:36] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Can you imagine what prisoners feel like?


[1:22:39] Ashley James: Yeah, exactly. Or what animals that we put in the zoo. I’m thinking about people or animals who are always held captive. We are all going through that. We’re all affected by COVID-19 in one way or another, but I’ve noticed in the last week my eating habits shifted because I’m home more. I found myself eating because I’m bored. I’m not doing anything because normally, we­’re always out and doing stuff.


[1:23:18] Dr. Glenn Livingston: You’re sinking the input.


[1:23:19] Ashley James: Then I just noticed I was walking around the house because I had to move around. I always end up—the kitchen is in the center of the house and I’m like, “Oh what’s in the fridge.” Look in the fridge for the 50th time today, “Oh, look in all the drawers. Oh, yeah. Okay, all the avocados are still there. What should I make for dinner? What should I make now? It’s 4:00 PM, too early for dinner. What can I eat now?” It was just food becomes an event because there’s nothing else to do.

I watched this happen because I like becoming the observer, and watching the behavior, and then going, “Ah, isn’t this interesting? This doesn’t need to control me but I can observe it.” Then that’s when it hit me, “Oh, good. We’re interviewing Glenn in a few days. We get to talk about this because I bet a lot of people have noticed bingeing or that justification. That little voice that wants to mate, and eat, and kill is getting a lot more attention now because we’re stuck at home.


[1:24:19] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Our business is actually up a little bit.


[1:24:21] Ashley James: I thought so.


[1:24:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I feel guilty about it because everybody is suffering. I’m working super hard. I’m working to help people. I don’t take much money out of the business.


[1:24:35] Ashley James: Glenn, Glenn, you have such a kind heart. Who else would feel guilty? You are helping people. Just think of the woman listener who said that through tears in her eyes that, “I have peace now. For the first time ever I ate dinner without anxiety and I have peace.” The money that you and your company make is a reflection of how many people you’re helping, you’re touching lives. Your book—although you give it for free—is the number one bestseller on Amazon. There are tons of fantastic reviews. Thousands and thousands of people have been helped.


[1:25:13] Dr. Glenn Livingston: We just crossed 4000 reviews today.


[1:25:17] Ashley James: That’s amazing. Congratulations.


[1:25:20] Dr. Glenn Livingston: That was the neurotic Jewish person in me, feeling guilty about making money and stuff.


[1:25:28] Ashley James: No, no, no. It’s so human. I’ve been looking around at these companies that are blatantly making a profit off of people suffering and the COVID-19 crisis. I’m in a lot of Facebook groups, but I’m in a marketing Facebook group and someone said, “Okay, covidpreneurs out there. What are you doing to turn a fast buck in this?” Because of this situation. I got angry. I said to myself, “I don’t want to make money off of anyone because of this.”


[1:26:06] Dr. Glenn Livingston: The truth is, it’s actually more unethical for me not to make money because I have to support a bunch of people in the company. We have to keep expanding the advertising. The banker doesn’t tell me at the end of the month, “Gee Glenn, you’re a really good person. You’re helping all these people. You don’t have to put your mortgage.” I wish they would.


[1:26:30] Ashley James: In your situation, your money means you’re helping people. There’s a direct correlation. Right now, people are stuck at home. They’re suffering and they’re seeking an answer.


[1:26:41] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It’s a good time to get a coach. It’s a good time to buy some of these books and look into it.


[1:26:46] Ashley James: Glenn, it has been such a pleasure having you on the show again as always. You can come back any time. Every time you publish six books just come back on. 


[1:26:57] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I think I’m out for a while. I have those six books in me because we’ve done thousands of coaching sessions. I knew what all the issues were and we developed the answers. I not only do this myself, but I work in concert with these four other coaches plus my business partner, Yoav. They’re always coming up with insights, always looking at situations, and so I had all these answers in me from all the specialty situations. Never Binge Again was a book that really took me eight years to write because I did eight years of journaling before I turned it into a book. If you looked at it, it was only a month in the actual writing but it was eight years in development. It’s kind of the same thing for these six books. There were about four years and thousands of sessions in development, and I think that I’m out. I think I have to see another few thousand people before I come up with more.


[1:27:48] Ashley James: Very cool. You’re welcome back on the show any time. If a listener wants to work with you or wants to join your coaching program and become a coach, should they just go to and get the information there?


[1:28:00] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Everything starts at, sign up for the reader bonuses, and you’ll be led to the podcast, you’ll be led to the coaching program, you’ll be led to the Facebook forum, you’ll be led to the free copies of the book, and Kindle, Nook, or PDF format. If you want the physical copies, you can get them. There is a charge for those. Yeah,


[1:28:21] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Glenn Livingston, I presume. It’s been a pleasure. Stay safe. Stay healthy, everyone. Thank you so much for your beautiful episode. I just know this is going to help a lot of people.


[1:28:35] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Thank you, dear. It went by quickly. Thanks.


Get Connected with Dr. Glenn Livingston:

Official Website

Fix Your Problem



Never Binge Again Podcast

Book by Dr. Glenn Livingston

Never Binge Again Book 

Recommended Reading by Dr. Glenn Livingston:

Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey

Check out these other amazing episodes with Dr. Glenn Livingston!

Episode 249: The Impact of Eating Right

Episode 231 – Willpower To Stop Bingeing

Episode 56 – How To End Binge Eating

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Faith Flatt And Ashley James


  • How Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner was created
  • All-natural hand sanitizer as the first line of defense against coronavirus
  • Safe ingredients without synthetic fillers


Proper Handwashing is one of the primary defenses against COVID-19, but what if you’re out and about and can’t wash your hands right away? In this episode, Faith Flatt shares with us the hand sanitizer that they formulated that doesn’t only kill coronavirus and germs, but it also conditions the skin.


Photo by Anna Shvets from Pexels


[0:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 422. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have on the show Faith Flatt who is the Head of Merchandising of a US-based company that normally produces all-natural pain creams, but since COVID-19, they formulated a hand sanitizer. Because let’s be honest, I cannot find any hand sanitizer anywhere. I’ve been to every store, even online. It is all sold out, or they jacked up the prices on eBay and Amazon. People on OfferUp are making homemade sanitizer, I mean it is crazy right now. When I found out that one of my favorite all-natural pain cream companies had formulated an all-natural hand sanitizer that kills—what is it like 99.9% of germs?


[0:01:12] Faith Flatt: Yes, it does.


[0:01:15] Ashley James: Not only that because we could all just douse ourselves in alcohol, which would just dry out our skin, make it crack, and bleed, and then we’d be more susceptible to germs. You guys produced a hand sanitizer that actually conditions the skin and moisturizes the skin leaving it protected on many levels. You guys are producing 30,000 units a day so that people who are like me in hot spots—I’m just outside the Seattle area where there is zero hand sanitizer available in any store—that I can gain access to hand sanitizer.

This is so important because yes, of course, we should all wash our hands, but when we go grocery shopping, we’re constantly touching things. We want to just have that extra level of protection for ourselves, and our family, and our loved ones—who are elderly and more susceptible—by immediately using hand sanitizer so we don’t bring a potential virus home with us and infect someone who could potentially die.

So a little bottle of hand sanitizer can save a life at this point. Your company is providing these all-natural hand sanitizers. So that’s why I’m very excited. I’m excited to have you on the show to tell us about this hand sanitizer. Listeners can go to to buy some right now. When you go to, it gives you the ability to also get some discounts by buying in bulk or buying a whole pack of them. If you use coupon code LTH you also get a gift, so that’s great.

I want to hear more about what’s in the hand sanitizer, why is it that it’s natural and that it actually conditions the skin? Because when I use it—I have it, I’m holding it right now. My son who has really sensitive skin—I’m going to put some of my hand right now so I can just describe the sensation because it feels like I just put cream. I can smell the alcohol because, of course, there’s 70% alcohol in this, but it doesn’t feel like I put alcohol on my skin. It doesn’t feel like all those other hand sanitizers. It actually just feels like I just rubbed cream on my hands. My hands feel moisturized, and smooth, and soft. I want to know why is it that your hand sanitizer is the bomb, first of all. So we’re going to talk about that, but first, is Tim your father-in-law?


[0:03:52] Faith Flatt: Yeah. This is a family business, and he’s my father-in-law.


[0:03:56] Ashley James: Right. I had Tim on the show—I don’t know, maybe about a year ago—to talk about Real Time Pain Relief—your company—and the natural pain creams, and their benefits, and the amazing stories of success of people actually reducing pain medications because of how effective your pain cream is. When listeners go to, they’ll also be able to see your other products—if they’d like to try your pain creams. Right now, the focus is on the hand sanitizer, which is really exciting. Tell us a little bit about you and your story. We heard about Tim’s story, Tim being one of the founders of Real Time Pain Relief. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got into working with Real Time Pain Relief and the history of your family-based company.


[0:04:50] Faith Flatt: Well, with all family businesses if it’s something that people are passionate about, everyone in the family kind of gets sucked into it, into the vortex. The Flatt family and their business partner Ron Snodgrass—the Snodgrass family—are just very consumed and passionate about helping people with topical pain relief. I married into the family about a decade ago, but even before I married in, this was a passion project for them. They were really focused on making sure that people had better alternatives to pain relief.

So about 20 years ago, Real Time Pain Relief introduced their first pain relief formula, and it was developed with the pain relief habits of their children and their sports teams in mind. Pretty soon, they found out that it wasn’t just children and their sports teams that were needing a better alternative to pain relief. Everyone really needed an alternative to popping OTC pain pills as if they were harmless. That was very concerning to the Real Time Pain Relief family. Soon we found that parents, grandparents, they were some of our more predominant users of the Real Time Pain Relief formulas, and that was how a company was born and a business was built.

One of the founding pieces of Real Time Pain Relief and our commitment to our customer base from then and to this day is that all of our formulas would be rich in nature’s ingredients and that we would always steer clear of the synthetic fillers that are in most of the formulas that you’re going to find on OTC shelves inside of stores. So parabens, SLS, artificial dyes, NSAIDS, acetaminophen, all of the Real Time Pain Relief formulas steer clear of that.

For me personally, getting to step into the family business, I have gone out to so many farmers markets, and state fairs, and eventually Boston Marathon, New York City Marathon, just places where we would go and personally sample the formulas that Real Time Pain Relief carries. It’s so fun to watch—through the years in the last decade that I’ve been involved—how the consumers out there are becoming more conscious, and how you’ll even have younger people much more interested in alternatives that are good for them.

So for me personally, getting to work in the merchandising and helping to communicate all of the wonderful features of the Real Time Pain Relief formulas and now our new hand sanitizer is really meaningful and very enjoyable part of my family life.


[0:07:38] Ashley James: Absolutely. Yeah, I’m looking at the bottle, no parabens, no SLS, no artificial dyes, and no fragrances. You guys decided not to even put essential oils in here. Someone could just add essential oils—a few drops to their hand if they want to, but there is some chamomile in here. Like I said, when you put it on I briefly smell the alcohol. Now it’s been a few minutes, I’m smelling the hand, I don’t smell anything. It’s very, very, very faint if anything, but my hand feels very soft like I just got a hand treatment. 

There’s something about this that is very—it says it’s a hand conditioner. There’s not even a better word than hand—it’s not a moisturizer. It really conditions the skin. It left my skin feeling very moist, it’s not cracked anymore because my hand was getting dried out from all the other alcohol-based hand sanitizers. I’m really enjoying it. I think I mentioned this but my five-year-old—who has sensitive skin—doesn’t react to your hand sanitizer, so that’s really exciting that some people with sensitive skin would also be confident using your hand sanitizer.

Then, of course, you have a hand treatment in addition to this they could get if they have really, really dry skin. We need to protect our skin right now more than ever. It’s our first line of defense when it comes to our immune system because it keeps germs out, but if there’re any cracks in your skin—even if your cuticles are cracked—that’s a potential for where the viruses can get in. We just want to protect your skin as much as possible. Obviously, sanitize it and then moisturize it. That’s why I really like this stuff. When did you guys develop the hand sanitizer? Was this years in the making or did you guys just see the need and jump on it?


[0:09:42] Faith Flatt: We work with a wonderful chemist, and we have access to wonderful ingredients from nature. We have—in the past—dabbled with hand sanitizer, but it wasn’t really an essential like it is right now. It wasn’t the commodity that it’s become, so it was never a part of our permanent product line. We had the ability to very quickly adjust to what the market was needing, and we realized very quickly that our customer base was in need of this essential. If we could make it available to them that that was what we wanted to do. 

While we normally spend many years developing a formula, we developed this one and brought it to market within about a week and a half. That was about three weeks ago, so it was a very quick turnaround time as the crisis began to really unfold and make hand sanitizer, like you said, really a first line of defense that everyone needs.

If you’re at home it’s nice when you can just wash your hands with an antibacterial soap, but almost everyone still has to go out to get groceries and things like that right now. If you leave the house without a hand sanitizer you’re really walking out unarmed. So realizing that, our customers—who because of the way our product was founded and the ideas behind our product—that basically if you are a Real Time Pain Relief customer you’re a member of the family. Our formulas were formulated for family at the beginning. As our customer base has grown, we’ve always just felt anyone who was turning to our formulas was someone that we considered family. So if our family members all across the US we’re doing without hand sanitizer, we wanted to make this first line of defense available to them.

All of those nourishing ingredients that you’re talking about in the formula and that feeling you get afterward is very intentional. Certainly, it makes it more fun to use the formula if it doesn’t leave you cracked and dried out at the end of the experience, but at least you know, okay, if it has 70% alcohol then its killing 99.99% of the germs. Also, on that note, according to the CDC,` I’m sure a lot of people are aware of this at this point, but even the CDC says that if your hand sanitizer contains 70% alcohol that it will kill 99.99% of germs including human coronavirus. That gives you a really strong sense of security when you have hand sanitizer, but the question right now is do you have it in stock?

So us making it available to our customers was the first step, and the second step was to make sure that it still lived up to our customers’ values. That we kept it clear of the unwanted fillers that are in most hand sanitizers right now. That we infused it with ingredients that would prevent that cracking because as you’ve said, Ashley, that opens your skin up to the infection. That opens your body up to any type of disease and infection when you have a cut. So right now, this is definitely not the time to back down on your health principles or those things you look for inside of your formulas normally. So we wanted to make sure that those rich formulas were available to our customer base, so glycerin, chamomile, vitamin E, aloe vera, things that if you don’t have our formula you want to look for some lotions to put on after you apply a hand sanitizer, but when you can get it all in one application that’s really a lovely spot to be in.

So our hand sanitizer, we went ahead and named it Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner because we wanted you to recognize—our users, our customers—that they would be getting a full-range experience. This is really a hand sanitizer unlike anything else in the marketplace. It’s an antimicrobial gel that delivers the perfect solution. Since alcohol does dry out your skin, this moisturizing experience in conjunction with the alcohol is really the perfect duo, and it conditions even as you clean. So it’s the best of both worlds.


[0:14:13] Ashley James: I read somewhere that you only need it to be 65% alcohol to kill the coronavirus, is that correct?


[0:14:20] Faith Flatt: There are two different types of alcohol. One type of alcohol it takes 70%, and that is the type that we use inside of our formula.


[0:14:33] Ashley James: Got it, got it. Do you know the reason behind choosing the type of alcohol you guys chose over the other type?


[0:14:41] Faith Flatt: I’ll tell you that I’m not the person who directly oversees our alcohol purchases, but it is very difficult right now to obtain alcohol. I’m sure that perhaps that had something to do with our decision, but we are committed to getting alcohol in stock and keeping it in stock because we think this is so necessary and important for our customers. One interesting thing as well is that the price of alcohol has more than doubled since the crisis began.

So we’re really in a battle for the commodities and essentials that everyone needs and that we even need to make this formula, but we are committed to making this available to our customers. We really want to bring all of the resources that we with our FDA-monitored facility, our ability to make FDA-approved labels to give people a formula they trust from a brand they trust in this—what is really a—warlike effort right now where all small businesses, all-hands-on-deck need to come together to help fight the crisis that we’re in the middle of.

As a company, for us, this is our positive action. We’re willing to fight and find the alcohol that we need to source for this formula.


[0:16:06] Ashley James: Awesome. The very first ingredient is aloe juice, which I think is really cool. Everyone knows that aloe juice is very healthy for the skin, it’s anti-inflammatory, it’s very soothing. I had an expert on the show about aloe and the healing benefits. There are several scientific studies that show that aloe increases healing time so much so that it almost doubles healing time. 

So when you put aloe on a burn or a cut, you will see it heal in half the amount of time it would take. If it would take, let’s say, three days to heal a burn, you put aloe on it it’s only going to take a day and a half. You have the first ingredient is medicinal, it’s something that helps to heal the skin, condition the skin, and keep it healthy. It’s like a layer of protection. Can you tell us about the other ingredients?


[0:17:06] Faith Flatt: Sure. Most of them are ingredients that the average person is going to be familiar with. Aloe vera—as you were mentioning—chamomile, vitamin E, and glycerin. While those ingredients have really positive connotations and I absolutely believe what you’re saying about aloe vera and love those types of ingredients for my own personal use with my family, we are very limited in what we’re actually able to say that each ingredient specifically does inside of the formula. We mix those in so that you do get nourishing effects, but as far as the individual benefit of each ingredient, we’re limited in what we can say that it actually does for you.


[0:17:52] Ashley James: Oh, right because you can’t make health claims as a company. You can’t say, “Buy our hand cream and your psoriasis will be gone.” You can’t make health claims, whereas if someone were to take these individual ingredients and they could go search the NIH or PubMed, they could find the scientific studies showing that these individual ingredients are safe. That they’ve been proven to be safe, and some of them are proven to actually be medicinal and healing, but combined together it’s made a hand sanitizer, that it protects your hands, and it also protects your skin.


[0:18:27] Faith Flatt: Right. We can promise you that this is going to condition your skin, and it’s going to leave you feeling nourished and moisturized. Certainly, I encourage you to do some research on these ingredients and see what some of the extra benefits to you could be.


[0:18:46] Ashley James: Right, right. Well, it’s funny because you’re at the grocery store and some of the grocery stores still have hand sanitizer to offer the customers, not to buy but just like a giant jug. We were at Whole Foods and they had this giant jug of this just regular run-of-the-mill hand sanitizer. I’m pumping it to my hand, giving some to my son, and my husband turns to me and he goes, “Isn’t that carcinogenic?” I look at him, I’m like, “Yeah.” We normally don’t use this stuff—the generic hand sanitizers—because you look and there are parabens and there are all kinds of carcinogenic, like you said, fillers, and preservatives, and whatever that is known to cause cancer, that is known to cause damage to the body. We normally—as a family—don’t touch those with a ten foot pole, but now it’s like, “Well, either that or we might accidentally get the coronavirus.”

Of course, we’re self-isolating now, but back when we were seeing our son’s grandparents a few weeks ago I was worried. I was like, “Well, what’s going on? What’s going to happen?” I’d love to get them because they go grocery shopping, and I’m just worried about them. They’re almost in their 80s, I’m worried. I’m worried that they might catch the germ when they’re out grocery shopping because they don’t have access to hand sanitizer. So I’m definitely going to get them. I’m going to ship them a tube of this for sure. How much do you use, because it’s only like a pea-sized amount? This tube is going to last me forever because you just put a pea-sized amount. Because it’s a gel, it covers both sides of your hands really quickly. Is there a recommended how much you should use on your hands to make sure that it works?


[0:20:39] Faith Flatt: No. The only recommendation, really, is just to make a little drop. A lot of people don’t know this but you do want to rub your hands all around your hands until it’s dry, and then that will make sure that the alcohol gets a chance to activate and to actually kill the germs. Right now especially, we want to make sure we’re using the hand sanitizer properly. I’m glad you mentioned the tube as well. That’s one of my favorite features of this formula. The container makes it very easy to share with your kids, or if your friend or somebody around you wants to borrow some hand sanitizer—you don’t necessarily want them touching your pump bottle—so the tube just makes it really easy to drop a little bit on the top of their hand and not share germs in that way.


[0:21:30] Ashley James: Pump bottles waste so much because you end up getting way too much in your hands. That’s what everyone thinks they need that much, but I think it’s intentional that these companies do that so that you go through it faster and then you buy more. Whereas with yours, you get to squeeze out however much you want and it’s, like you said, a gel. I squeeze out about a pea-sized—maybe a large pee, maybe an edamame size—and then I rub both sides of my hands, and in between my fingers, and then it dries really fast—within seconds. That’s actually good information about rubbing your hands until it’s dry, but I use so much less with yours versus the pump ones, so I really like that.

Now you said your company—for years—has been dabbling with so I’m sure you guys had like a formula in mind or did you kind of go back to the drawing board and start from scratch three weeks ago when you were inventing the hand sanitizer?


[0:22:33] Faith Flatt: I think we knew the base of what we wanted to do, and then just getting it into that finalized position, and getting all of the marketing material, and making sure that we were able to communicate clearly, that we had the correct label on the formula. That was really what the focus was over the last week and a half, but we certainly had a good idea of what ingredients would work well so that you do get that wonderful experience you’re sharing with us. We’ve got some wonderful testimonials from some early users of the formula, and I just wanted to share some of those with you.

Let’s see, Elisa, she said, “That the smooth finish and silky filling are delightful,” which is not something you commonly hear after using a hand sanitizer. It’s usually a dry icky feeling. Joe said, “Clean hands with no dry feeling. Perfect.” Bethany loves that it’s not scented. Then Ryan said that it doesn’t dry his hands out. We’re definitely getting the results we wanted from this formula, and the feedback so far is that people are happy and happy to have it. Like you mentioned, you want to send this to members of your family. It’s a strange time to live in where hand sanitizer is probably one of the best gifts you could get right now, but it’s so hard to find and it’s so essential as a first line of defense against this disease. That we’re happy to be doing it. It really fits back into who we are as a company.

Real Time Pain Relief’s primary goal is to make sure that individuals have a first line of defense when pain enters their home, and so that’s what we’ve been passionate about with our topical pain reliefs for a long time is to make sure that you have an option that doesn’t have those fillers inside of it, that doesn’t lead you to popping a pain pill anytime pain enters your home. Because one of the best ways to avoid a bad habit or to make good health choices is to make sure that you have an alternative. So we’re happy we’re able to provide that non-carcinogenic hand sanitizer to our customer base because everyone needs it right now, and now you have another alternative.


[0:25:02] Ashley James: Absolutely. Yes, I’m loving it. I started thinking about all the families I know that are multi-generational like my dear, dear Aunt Sally—who I love to bits—lives just outside of LA. She’s in her 80s—I think she’s 86—and she lives with her grandchildren, and her son, and her son’s wife. These kids—well, now they’re not going to school—they might be going to the park, they might be running around, maybe they’ll have a playdate, maybe they’re on lockdown I don’t know. They might go out and maybe they see a friend in the street. Maybe they accidentally catch the virus, or maybe they go to the grocery store. If they don’t have access to hand sanitizer, they might bring it back and in fact my aunt who is in the vulnerable population because statistics are showing that those who are seniors are much more likely to have severe effects of the virus versus youth.

So think of all the people you know where a senior citizen lives in a family, where there are maybe younger people, they may be asymptomatic if they catch the virus, but if they bring it home it could be fatal for someone else in the home. That’s why this hand sanitizer is so important that the younger generations use it to protect the older generations right now. Of course, the older generations should use it too. Everyone should use it. I just think that people—like teenagers and people in their 20s because I remember I was there—we kind of feel invincible. Like, “Oh, whatever. If I get it, it won’t be a problem.”

What if you get it and you’re asymptomatic, and for two weeks you’re shedding it and giving it to everyone you come in contact with. That is potentially murdering people. I know I’m being extreme and normally I’m not a fear monger—I feel like I’m being one right now—but just to paint the picture, something as simple as keeping a hand sanitizer with us at all times can save lives. Just like people are saying, “Well, masks in certain situations can save lives.” Hand sanitizer, I think, is more important because you are going to touch something and then you touch your eye. That through the eye—they’re saying is one of the biggest ways that we can catch the coronavirus. 

Obviously, through eyes, nose, and mouth, but even if you’re wearing a mask—if you’re wearing a mask and you’re wearing gloves—and then you touch the virus, and you don’t realize it, and then you accidentally rub your eye—even with gloves on—you’re still potentially putting the virus in your eyes. That’s where hand sanitizers are the most important thing to do. I know we’re not going to make a huge long interview on hand sanitizer, but I wanted to just cover it as much as possible to let the listeners know that I was so excited that it’s available. 

So listeners go to That’s and grab some. Grab some for yourself, grab some for your neighbors, grab some for your loved ones. Your company will ship it to them. How fast is the shipping? You gave me the information that you are producing 30,000 units a day. Are you able to produce more than that or are you shutting down making your other products? Could you make more than 30,000? Are you selling out? How fast does it ship? Is it selling out or is there any fear that you’re going to sell out? We want to know.


[0:29:01] Faith Flatt: We started out really slowly even though—like I said three weeks and then a week and a half later it’s available—it doesn’t sound too slow, but we’ve taken it cautiously. First of all, no, we’re not stopping producing our topical pain relief formulas. So to anybody who uses Real Time Pain Relief, don’t panic. We’re still doing that because pain relief is an essential service, and we definitely know you need that. We’re just taking more precautions, and cleaning our facilities, and making sure that you’ve got a clean delivery every time.

We have transitioned a portion of our production line into putting out 30 units a day. At first, we thought, “Okay, that’s really going to be enough to supply our customers. Get them all caught up and we’ll be in a good spot,” but what’s interesting, Ashley, is within about 48 hours of releasing this formula to a limited group of our customers at first—because we wanted to make sure we had our stockpile good before we released it to all of our customers—we were being hit up by major organizations and businesses across the country saying, “Hey, we need this too.”

So we realized quickly that we could service and help in this fight, not just by making hand sanitizer available to our customer base but also to supplying America’s workforce. By this, I mean organizations and corporations who are really keeping America running right now. We hear so much right now about the heroes who are our nurses and doctors. They’re getting a ton of attention, and they deserve that so much, but there’s another segment that really has become a hero—all of the grocery store operators, all of the truckers, all of the takeout deliveries services. These people are literally risking their lives much more than those of us who are able to isolate at home, and they need hand sanitizer. They’re low on hand sanitizer.

I live in a small town in New Hampshire so you get to know everyone at the cash register and they become your friends. You realize they’re still out there right now, I’m isolating at home with my children and their heroes. It just almost brings tears to your eyes to recognize that some of them don’t have access to hand sanitizers. So when we started getting those calls we realized we were going to make this a big priority. We were able to put together a large enough supply, and we believe we’ll be able to maintain it. We are able to offer wholesale packages to businesses and organizations starting at 42 units—depending on the size of the company. Maybe you have friends or family who own a business or organization, 42 units all the way up to 100,000 units.

If you know somebody who’s in need of a large quantity of hand sanitizer, we want to help. We want to make that available to you because we believe that everybody deserves to have access to hand sanitizer as a first line of defense from this disease.


Photo by cottonbro from Pexels


[0:32:27] Ashley James: I love it. You started out making 30,000 units a day, what’s your production now?


[0:32:33] Faith Flatt: Right now we’re still producing 30,000 units a day. We do have it in stock at the time of this recording, but just for peace of mind for customers, we do have an estimated ship date on the landing page. So whenever you go to order it’ll indicate when your hand sanitizer will ship.


[0:32:58] Ashley James: Yeah, and it was fast. That’s great news. Shipping right now is kind of—like Amazon, for example, I ordered something and it said it’s not going to arrive until April 21st but then it arrived the next day. So I’m like, “What’s going on?” I think shipping’s being a little weird for other companies like USPS, and FedEx, and UPS. I’m not sure if they’re limiting their staff, or if they’re maybe overloaded because everyone’s home so they’re ordering online, or if they’re limiting their staff because they have to do social distancing. What I do know is that I got my shipment from you guys superfast. I was really excited about that, and so far, all your customers that you released it to were able to get it, and start using it, and give feedback so that’s great.


[0:33:57] Faith Flatt: Yeah. We’ve actively been able to fill orders, and we have enough right now to be filling very quickly, and we’re still servicing large accounts that are calling us and needing the supply. Our first priority is to our customer base, but we do have everything in place to be able to service these organizations and unsung heroes with hand sanitizer as well. One thing I wanted to throw out as well is that we’re not the only company contributing in the hand sanitizer realm right now. There are a lot of small businesses lending a big hand. I’m sure you may have heard that a lot of distilleries right now are making hand sanitizer. One thing about those is the distilleries are not licensed to both produce and sell the formulas. So that influx of hand sanitizer doesn’t necessarily make it out to the general population.

What most of that is going to—most of those hand sanitizer supplies—are being donated to first responders, and government officials, and nurses, so that’s wonderful. We’re really happy that the distilleries are helping to fill that gap there. Then we’re happy to be here helping just the everyday consumer. One thing for healthcare officials compared to just the everyday person, you have to wash their hands up to a hundred times a day—so much more than we do—they’re going to be going through that quickly. So it’s nice that we can all partner together in this really warlike effort to help make sure that everyone is taken care of.


[0:35:39] Ashley James: I just thought, wouldn’t it be cool if you have the means—the listener who’s listening right now—to buy ten bottles, for example. If you have the means to do so, give a bottle to your mailman, give a bottle to UPS driver. We have a Facebook group of 270 people that are just our neighbors in our little neighborhood of maybe three square miles, and our UPS driver joined our Facebook group, which just blows my mind. He posted updates. He’s like, “I want to let you guys know that I am sanitizing my hands in between every single delivery.”

Back when we had the snowstorm where no one could get out of their driveway for over a week—unless you had a four-wheel drive—he posted that because he couldn’t even get into our neighborhood. He would stay for an hour by the gas station near our area, and for those who could get out, he’d be able to give their packages to them. He’s been in communication with us in times of crisis, but he said, “I promise you, I am doing everything I can to make sure that your deliveries are safe. That I keep myself sanitized.” I’m just thinking these postal workers who are actually taking the time to buy their own hand sanitizer—if they can, which no one can find any—so I would love to get him a bottle because everyone’s running out.

So your mailman, the checker at your grocery store if they don’t have any, the people that you run into even though we’re supposed to be self-isolating, but the people that you do run into when you go like the checkers, and the mailman, and the delivery people, and your neighbors, and your loved ones, obviously. We could—if we have the means—buy some extra bottles so that we can give it to those who have to be out there. Like you said, delivery people who have to be out there and don’t have access to it. That’d be really cool to pass it along.

One of my friends posted on Facebook that their church is encouraging them to leave toilet paper out on their front porch. Obviously, not in the weather, but underneath the roof or whatever. Leave some toilet paper out on the porch, and so if anyone needs some they’ll see some toilet paper and they’ll get it. Then other churches I heard were encouraging people to make a clear plastic bin with essentials like food and toilet paper with a sign that says, “If you need some please take it.” That way, we’re helping our community, we’re helping each other especially those in need because there are those in our community who lost their jobs, who were living paycheck to paycheck. Now they have to figure out how to make ends meet. 

If even just buying one bottle of hand sanitizer for that person because now they’re going to do Uber Eats or something, and they’re going to be a delivery person just to make ends meet that’s supportive of them. If we can get together and figure out how we can support the people in our community who aren’t being supported by giving them some extra toilet paper, or giving them some food, or giving them a hand sanitizer then we will all help each other. Arising tide floats all boats. I love that saying because I imagine all the neighborhoods being lifted up because we are all the tide that’s rising. We are all doing that effort together. 

So if we can think about how we can help others in our community, if we have the means, if you have the means help. Do what you can. Do it safely, but do what you can. Just because we’re such a social distancing doesn’t mean that we don’t still help each other and still care for each other.

It has been so great having you on the show to talk about this. I’m really excited that you’re providing this really essential service. Is there anything else that you’d like to say about your company, about this hand sanitizer, just any of the science or the studies? Is there anything that you really want to make sure that you got to say today?


[0:40:21] Faith Flatt: I’d love to thank you, first of all, for having us just to talk about this new formula that really can make a difference. I want to say, “Make sure you are practicing good hygiene and utilizing any hand sanitizer, but of course, the Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner from Real Time is wonderful, but first of all, we believe that everyone deserves the ability to fight off germs.” As you said, Ashley, we all have our part to play to protect those around us, so hand sanitizer is just very important right now. We’re excited to be doing our part.

I want to say one last time that if you’re an organization, or a business, or you know of one that’s a need of hand sanitizer, or you yourself just want to share it with others, as Ashley recommended, we’ve got some wonderful bundle options available. We’re just looking forward to partnering with you to get Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner into more people’s hands.


[0:41:25] Ashley James: Awesome. Listeners can go to That’s to buy the hand sanitizer—either individual or like you said the bundles. You can also use the coupon code LTH to get a fun gift. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show, Faith. Thank you so much for all you do. I know you’ve been working like a fiend the last three weeks to help get this hand sanitizer out there. I’m really impressed that you guys could turn around in that short period of time and produce such a high-quality product, but I shouldn’t be surprised because that’s what you guys do. So it’s been pretty awesome.

I also recommend—if listeners do have any pain—check out their other pain creams. I am a big fan of the MAXX Pain Cream myself, but you guys also have other formulas. George Foreman has his own formula, which has everything in it. I haven’t tried that one yet, but I’ve heard that it’s now everyone’s favorite formula.


[0:42:32] Faith Flatt: It’s a knockout, I’ll tell you.


[0:42:36] Ashley James: Well, I loved everything George Foreman’s ever done, so I wouldn’t be surprised. So listeners, when you go to and you buy your hand sanitizer, then if you do have any pain, or if you know a friend or family member that has pain then also check out the different pain creams, the George Foreman pain cream. I looked at all the ingredients, I was really, really impressed with everything that was in it. That it actually does work. I have even given some of your pain creams to some friends who are in chronic pain with fibromyalgia and with osteoporosis. They were so thankful. I’ve heard nothing but good feedback from experiencing your pain cream so I was really happy.

The fact that people significantly reduce their pain meds when using your pain creams is so beautiful because those pain meds are so harmful to the body. If we can do it naturally then we’re really protecting that person in the long run. So, thank you for everything you do. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to hearing from the listeners. Listeners can go to the Facebook group—the Learn True Health Facebook group—and share with us your experience with this hand sanitizer. How you and your family are enjoying it. I would also love to hear from the listeners—in the Facebook group—how you gifted this hand sanitizer to someone in your community. I think that’s so inspirational. I love those stories of pay it forward.

So if you do buy the hand sanitizer for someone else please post it in the Learn True Health Facebook group. I’d love to hear that story. It’s like one of those Christmas tales where the whole town doesn’t have any presents or something really bad happens. We all come together and we end up making a Christmas miracle. So we’re all going to come together, and give each other hand sanitizer, and support each other in this really crazy time.

Faith, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for producing this hand sanitizer. I am going shopping today and I can’t wait to bring it with me. I feel very happy that I have this tube right now when I go grocery shopping today.


[0:45:05] Faith Flatt: Well, I’m glad you have it too. Thank you for having me, Ashley.



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All-Natural Hand Sanitizer Against Coronavirus – Faith Flatt & Ashley James – #422

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