475: Reversing Cancer with Advanced Gerson Therapy, Dr. Patrick Vickers
Ashley James & Dr. Patrick Vickers
- History of Gerson Therapy
- Importance of alkaline diet
- Importance of coffee enema in detoxing the body
- What a Gerson meal looks like
Dr. Patrick Vickers is the Director and Founder of the Advanced Gerson Therapy Clinic. He studied under Charlotte Gerson and applied everything he learned about the Gerson Therapy and tweaked it to enhance Gerson Therapy based on scientific studies. In this episode, Dr. Vickers shares the Gerson Therapy and Gerson meals look like.
Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I am so excited for you to hear today's interview with Dr. Patrick Vickers who shares the Dr. Max Gerson protocol and then the add-ons that he has added on that he has found in his clinical practice to even enhance the effects.
So Dr. Max Gerson and the stories shared in today's interview, but to give you a little bit of a teaser trailer, Max Gerson was able to cure very stubborn migraines. Then he found out his migraine diet cured tuberculosis, and this is right before World War II when there was no cure for it. It was something that was very stubborn, can stick around for years, and was entirely fatal for many people. And then he found out it cured cancer. And then he found out it reversed even very stubborn diabetes, and so he treated tens of thousands of people with all kinds of conditions using this very specific protocol that he dialed in, and it is a specific diet, but it also involves other things and we're going to learn about that today.
I'm so excited for you to learn from this episode. And if you don't have any of those conditions, what's really great is you can still apply what you learn today and add a bit of it to your life to prevent disease as well. Please share this interview with those you love who have migraines, who have digestive issues, who have cancer or have cancer in the family and they're concerned about getting cancer. For those who have immune problems because this protocol helps the body have such a robust immune system, and for those who have blood sugar problems, even type 1 and type 2 diabetes really, really respond well to this protocol. So basically, everyone can benefit from listening to today's interview.
Now, Dr. Patrick Vickers also mentions that he's added on certain things to Dr. Gerson's protocol that he found in his clinical practice to supercharge the program. One of those things he says is absolutely essential to supercharge the program is the Organic Medicinal Aloe Gel Drink that we talked about in the last episode, in episode 474 that Dr. Michael Haley talks about where they take the aloe straight from the field.
Dr. Michael Haley owns this farm and they take the aloe, they cut it open, they cut open the filet, they take just the gel, and then they immediately freeze it and ship it to you, and then you drink it. It's so different from what you get in the store. It's completely different. What you get in the store has been filtered, pasteurized, and all the medicines have been taken out. But when you drink only a few ounces of the stuff a day, Dr. Michael Haley spoke about it in the last episode that it will block the cancer cells. The cancer cells try to absorb it, it binds to the cancer cells kind of like stuffing their mouths full, and then they cannot digest it because the polysaccharides in the aloe gel cannot be digested by cancer, but cancer thinks it's a sugar so it tries to absorb it but then it can't digest it. But it basically blocks the cancer from absorbing any more nutrients, thus starving it out.
And so Dr. Patrick Vickers today talks about how he adds the aloe gel to every freshly pressed juice drink that he gives daily to his cancer clients and patients at his clinic and he tells people to do it. I love this aloe gel. I noticed it really helps our family. I have friends who take it and notice that even their hair, skin, and nails get healthier, their digestion gets healthier. So it's just something wonderful to add to your smoothies or to your freshly pressed juice, or you can just do a few shots of it today. And in the last episode, I share how to make it taste good so kids even like it because my son thinks it's delicious when I do these little tweaks and he thinks it's really great as well, and we noticed that improvement for him as well.
You can get a fantastic discount that Dr. Michael Haley's giving all of our listeners by going to learntruehealth.com/aloe. That's learntruehealth.com/aloe and there you can get a few frozen jugs. It's great to keep it in the freezer for times if you ever have any digestive issues, it's great to just have on hand because for me, for our family, when we had either food poisoning or some kind of stomach bug, we drank it and it immediately stopped all the symptoms—the diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, all of that stopped it in its tracks for all three of us. I thought that was pretty awesome.
It's like medicine. It's good to have on hand as well as a good to take for prevention. You can also use the coupon code LTH2022 and he's going to give you his cream as well, which is an aloe cream. I really like it because it's not greasy and I like to have it at my desk. I love anything natural to put on my body or to put in my body that helps. So that's learntruehealth.com/aloe coupon code LTH2022. It's a wonderful adjunct to the Dr. Gerson protocol, as well as anyone who wants better hair, skin, and nails, better digestion, less inflammation, less pain. People even with arthritis are noticing an improvement, which of course Dr. Michael Haley talked about in our last episode and of course in the first episode where I had him on about a year ago and he shared some amazing stories.
You can find lots of fantastic interviews on the podcast by using the search function at learntruehealth.com. You can go to learntruehealth.com and use the search function to find all kinds of wonderful episodes. I have a ton of episodes on reversing cancer. Cancer and heart disease are the two largest killers. My dad died of heart disease, my mom died of cancer. My mom was the healthiest person I knew until she passed away of cancer suddenly, and that has helped fuel me to want to learn how I can help others. I can't save my parents, but I maybe can help you save yours, or I can help you save yourself or save someone that you love. So let's turn this ripple into a tidal wave and let's help as many people as possible to learn true health and to reverse and prevent disease.
The body has an amazing ability to heal itself. We just need to give it what it needs and stop giving it what it doesn't need. Dr. Patrick Vickers today shares exactly what we can do to support the structure and function of the body to cure disease. The body can cure its own disease when we help it, and I'm so excited for you to learn from today's episode.
Thank you for sharing this podcast. Come join us in the Learn True Health Facebook group. We'd love to see you there. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day and check out the aloe, let me know what you think about it. learntruehealth.com/aloe, use the coupon code LTH2022. Do a challenge. Do a whole bottle. Do about four to eight ounces a day depending on your medical conditions, what you like to reverse, and at the end of the bottle, notice any changes in your hair, skin, and nails, your digestion, your inflammation. Just notice it and then I'd love for you to come to the Learn True Health Facebook group and let us know different positive changes that you're experiencing.
[00:08:09] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 475. I am so excited for today's guest we have with us Dr. Patrick Vickers here to share about Gerson Therapy. His website is gersonclinic.com. Of course, links to everything that Dr. Patrick Vickers talks about today are going to be in the show notes of today's podcast at learntruehealth.com. Welcome to the show.
[00:08:45] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Thank you very much for having me, Ashley.
[00:08:47] Ashley James: Yeah, I'm really, really excited, but as we were joking around before we hit record, we were bound to meet because you kind of know all my friends or we have mutual friends. You've been on the Tim James show, of no relation. You've been with Dr. Michael Haley, who is also awesome. I'm sure if we sat around we could talk more and probably figure out we have a lot more friends in common.
I have been fascinated with Dr. Max Gerson's therapy. I watched some documentaries on it. I highly recommend checking them out. There are a lot of documentaries out there so just pick one and go for it. There's some on Amazon, the Gaia TV, and all that stuff, or just YouTube Dr. Gerson. I've actually watched some documentaries on YouTube also. What fascinates me is his entire story, and then of course the controversy, right? Because you can't steal the money, the profits from the people trying to sell the drugs. If you create a system that eliminates a disease, you will be kicked out of this country, time and time again we've seen it.
This therapy is so effective, but you have to follow it to a tee. It's so effective that he was able to help people completely reverse and no longer have cancer. That's near and dear to my heart. I held my mom's hand as she died of cancer at 55 years old, and she was the healthiest person I knew. Watching her pass away from cancer, I've always wanted to know what I could have done differently. I was 22 years old. I was just learning about all this, but if I could go back in time, absolutely, I would have taken her to your clinic to do Gerson Therapy.
I've had friends ask me, what would you do if you had a cancer diagnosis? I would 100% do Gerson Therapy. That makes me sit and think, well, why am I not doing it now? Maybe that's something we could talk about. Just the other day my friend said, I know all the things I need to do to get healthy, but I'll probably do them when I get sick enough to need it.
She was being honest. She was being very blunt that, you know, my life is busy. I'm taking care of two kids. I'm running a business, and really, I'm not going to actually take care of my health like seriously spend six hours a day between nutrition and exercise preparing food and all the things it takes. She's sacrificing the time it takes to take care of herself until her back is up against the wall.
I'm like, okay, if my backs up against the wall with a cancer diagnosis, I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm 110% in on Gerson Therapy, ozone IV, and all the other kinds of modalities, but why am I not doing that amount of intensity into building health? Why do we wait for a diagnosis? I definitely want you to introduce Gerson Therapy and talk about Max Gerson, but maybe we can talk a little bit about is this podcast just for people who have cancer, or can we utilize Gerson Therapy or should it be utilized for people who don't have cancer?
[00:12:27] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, I mean, that is the proverbial issue, isn't it? I mean, how often have you heard an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? And so, we're [inaudible 00:12:36] virtually every single degenerative disease including terminal cancer, so why wouldn't it make sense that that would be also used as a lifestyle of prevention, which it is. I mean, you look at Charlotte Gerson who died three years ago this month, actually, at the age of 98. She used the therapy her entire life as a means of prevention after her father cured her of advanced tuberculosis when she was 12 years old.
This is a dietary therapy not just for reversing disease, but its principles are utilizable for prevention as well and should be. To wait until you get sick, let me tell you, I've had this clinic now for over 10 years. You don't want to wait until you get sick because quite often, it can be too late by the time you're diagnosed. So to live under those premises that I'll just wait until I get sick, it's not a very smart strategy.
[00:13:37] Ashley James: I know Gerson Therapy takes several hours a day between food prep and also certain bathroom routines you would be performing, to say it politely. It's a part-time job to Gerson Therapy well, to do it to the tee, right? I mean, once you get into the routine, maybe you can shave some time off. But is there Gerson therapy for doing cancer reversal and is there Gerson Therapy light for just creating—like maybe just one coffee enema a day instead of six and maybe once a day instead of 12 times a day? Is there like a Gerson Therapy light for just preventing disease?
[00:14:28] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yes, of course, there would be. Our intensive protocol for the cancer patient is completely different from a standard detox protocol at home just to change your life and maintain health. But the principles, which hopefully people will learn on the show today, that protect your cellular health, particularly your metabolism, are going to remain the same for every patient, whether it's a detox or a cancer patient. But certainly, the intensity is going to be different for varying cases. The detox would simply be much less than the intensive cancer protocol, no doubt about it.
[00:15:08] Ashley James: Got it. Well, I'd love for you to, later on in the interview, explain what we can do on a regular basis. Give us some actual homework on what we can do on a day-to-day basis to prevent disease using the Gerson Therapy for maintaining health. But let's talk about Max Gerson. Give us a rundown, who was Max Gerson and how did he discover the Gerson Therapy protocol?
[00:15:37] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yeah, that's a great question. And as you said, Dr. Gerson's story is truly one of the greatest stories and tragedies in American history for certain, if not world history. Nobel Peace Prize winner Dr. Albert Schweitzer called Dr. Gerson the greatest genius in medical history. Eight years before Schweitzer won the Nobel Prize, Dr. Gerson cured Schweitzer of severely advanced diabetes within six weeks. In six weeks, he was able to completely reverse Dr. Schweitzer's advanced diabetes and he cured Schweitzer's wife, Helena, of terminal tuberculosis when they had a little girl who was only three or four years old at the time.
Gerson, his life, his story, his therapy, I mean, it is just a classic tragedy, so to speak, and we're going to go into that, but who was he? So he was born in 1881 in Wagrowiec, Germany, which is now Wagrowiec, Poland. It was under German annex at that time. At the age of 18, when he wanted to go to university, back at that time, if you wanted to go to university in Germany, you had to pass an exit exam out of school. You just didn't go to university based on grades or based on your SAT scores. You literally had to pass an exam out of high school.
Well, his calculus professor put a question on there that he'd never seen before. He managed to come up with such an elaborate solution that his teacher couldn't even tell him whether it was right or wrong. So she sent it to all the top university math professors in Germany at that time and every single one wrote her back and said, we have a mathematical genius within our country and they all tried to recruit him for math. Recognizing that they had something very special in their midst, the Gerson family got together shortly thereafter one night at the Gerson home—aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, cousins all got together to discuss what Dr. Gerson would study at university. They all agreed that he should study medicine because they felt that's where he would have the greatest impact on humanity.
Here we are now, that was 120 years ago, literally 1900 and here we are 120 years later, talking about the man who truly had the greatest impact in medical history on his ability to reverse advanced terminal disease. He goes off to university at the University of Freiburg, and while he's there, he's suffering from severe migraine headaches. Now, this is at a time when Germany was leading the way in medical research. If you wanted a superior medical education, you went to Germany to get it. He had the top professors in the world at his disposal. None of them could help him. They had nothing to offer him.
He set out to completely cure himself of his disease by radically altering his diet. He cut out all the fat, all the salt, all the processed foods, the alcohol, all of it of a standard German diet of that time and completely cured himself of his migraine headaches.
Well, he graduates from the University of Freiburg, opens up practice in Bielefeld, Germany. And in Bielefeld, Germany starts using this migraine diet on his patients when one of his patients comes back completely cured of their tuberculosis. Now, this is at a time when tuberculosis was “pandemic”, for lack of a better word. It was literally killing over a million people in Europe at that time, and so that was a big thing. All of a sudden, he now recognizes that he can cure TB. So he starts treating all these TB patients and curing them of their TB.
When a guy by the name of Ferdinand Sauerbruch gets word that there's this doctor curing advanced TB, now Ferdinand Sauerbruch was Europe's leading thoracic surgeon. He was the guy operating on all these tuberculosis lung patients. And so when he heard this guy Gerson was carrying TB, he approached Dr. Gerson and he asked him to embark on a study of 460 tuberculosis patients. He said to Dr. Gerson privately, if you can cure but one of these patients, I will believe every single word you have to say, and Dr. Gerson cured, and this is no joke, 450 out of the 460 tuberculosis patients with his migraine diet.
[00:20:29] Ashley James: Let's just pause there. I want to pause there because this one point, I think a lot of us just take for granted, oh yeah, cure TB, no worries. TB back then was like having the plague. If you were in a hospital with TB, you probably were going to die. What was the percentage? I don't remember exactly what they said, but didn't he expect something like only 4% to survive? How many people should have died under the normal care for TB out of those 460 patients?
[00:21:11] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, when he approached Gerson and said, if you cure but one of these patients, I'll believe every single word that you have to say. So clearly, he wasn't expecting much, was he?
[00:21:20] Ashley James: He wasn't expecting any of them to live.
[00:21:22] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, exactly. I mean, I would imagine he was expecting some of them to live, but to cure 450 out of 460, and this is what we tell people—cancer is the monster, that's the difficult thing to cure. We can still cure it. Viruses, bacteria, do you know how simple those things are to cure? You take tuberculosis and it's easily curable with something as intensive and radical as the Gerson Therapy. So he became renowned at that point, Ashley, for reversing advanced tuberculosis.
And then Hitler came to power, Gerson and his family were German Jews. He lost his entire family in the Holocaust. He himself nearly died in the Holocaust and he was the only one left. He was on his way to Vienna to give a lecture on his curing of tuberculosis when the SS Army stopped the train and entered his cabin when they started looking for IDs. They were asking for their IDs looking for Jews.
There were two or three other men in Dr. Gerson's cabin with him, and when the SS officer came in, Dr. Gerson actually panicked, but the SS officer turned to the other gentleman first and asked for their IDs. And then when the SS officer turned to Dr. Gerson, he didn't immediately ask him for his ID. He asked him where he was going. And so Dr. Gerson told him he was on his way to Vienna, Austria to give a lecture because he was curing advanced tuberculosis.
Now, if you're the SS officer, you're like, yeah, whatever. Come on, you're carrying tuberculosis. And so Dr. Gerson threw up two x-rays in the window and he showed the SS officer a before and an after x-ray of a TB patient that he cured. The SS officer was so shocked he forgot to ask her son for his ID and he led him off to Vienna, Austria. And as soon as he finished in Vienna, Austria, he immediately made his way back home, immediately packed up his family, Charlotte Gerson included who was probably only eight or nine years old at that point, and he fled to France.
When Hitler invaded France, Gerson fled to Manhattan and he set up practice on Park Avenue. Literally, I kid you not, a hundred feet around the corner from Memorial Sloan Kettering, the largest cancer research hospital, arguably, in the United States if not the world and he began to practice in Manhattan literally right around the corner from Memorial Sloan Kettering on Park Avenue. This is when it became known that he could cure advanced cancer and the story goes like this.
So a woman in New Jersey, I believe, was suffering from advanced gallbladder, stomach, and liver cancer, all three. Yeah, all three, and she had heard that Dr. Gerson was practicing in Manhattan. She approached him and begged him for his tuberculosis treatment for her cancer and he refused her. Now this is back in the early to mid-30s maybe and he refused to treat her. Now, why would Dr. Gerson refuse to treat her even back then? Because even back then as a medical doctor, under your licensure to treat cancer with anything other than the standard accepted forms of conventional treatment at that time risked losing your license, risking ridicule, ostracization from your colleagues, and so he refused to treat her. She kept coming back and she would not take no for an answer.
Finally, he said to her, all right, I'm going to treat you in secret, and he ended up treating her. Lo and behold, he completely reversed every single one of her cancers. It was at that point that he said, I can no longer turn my [inaudible 00:25:39] away from this deadly scourge of cancer. He dedicated the rest of his entire life to treating cancer patients at the risk of everything that he would suffer from that point on, and let me tell you, did he suffer?
He was completely ostracized and ridiculed by his medical colleagues. They took away his licensure at some point. They took away his membership from the New York State Medical Society. Up until that point, Gerson was one of the most published doctors in the world. He had a litany of publications in major medical journals around the world on his treatment protocols. And from that point on, he became a marked man and became prohibited from publishing in all major medical journals around the world. They destroyed him.
[00:26:37] Ashley James: How many cases of cancer did he cure in the United States before they did that before they took his medical license away?
[00:26:47] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, that's a good question. I don't really know, but he was able to get his license back. They briefly took it away. What they ended up permanently taking away was his membership from the New York State Medical Society. But between 1910 and 1959 when he died, he probably literally cured thousands of patients in that timeframe. From 1930 when he arrived in the United States to 1959, you're probably looking at 5,000 to 10,000 during that time frame, I would imagine. He was a marked man from day one.
Let's say he cured that woman somewhere around the mid-30s, 10 years later in 1946, word's out that Dr. Gerson, this guy in Manhattan, is reversing advanced cancer. Well, in 1946, the Pepper Neely Anti-cancer Bill came to the floor of the United States Senate. It's designed to appropriate $100 million in funding to anyone who can show promise in the realm of cancer research.
Well, they invited Dr. Gerson to testify July 1st through the 3rd, 1946 and he brought five of his most terminal cancer patients that he ever had and all five walked through the Senate chambers door and testified on his behalf. So shocked were everybody in those chambers that Senator Claude Pepper himself, who to this day remains the longest-serving senator and congressman in American history. He said Dr. Gerson dedicated his life to the mastery of this scourge of cancer and all should honor his great work.
So why haven't you heard of him? Why isn't his protocol standard among medical care? Well that day, Gerson was to give an interview to the international press after he gave his testimony. So they whisked him away to the international press room where he sat alone in a room for over an hour and a half. They never showed up.
They were whisked away to another room and an impromptu party was thrown on their behalf. They were not allowed to interview Dr. Gerson. Why? Gerson wasn't only talking about being able to reverse the dance cancer during his testimony. He was asked why is cancer growing at such a rapid rate? What are the causes of cancer? And he exposed every single industry that are the huge lobbying organizations paying the politicians' campaigns.
As soon as he started talking in those Senate chambers, red flags went up through all of Washington, and that man, Dr. Gerson, was prohibited from being interviewed any further by the international press. However, present at his testimony was a man by the name of Raymond Gram Swing. Now, who's Raymond Gram Swing? Well, back then, if you wanted to listen to your news every night, you didn't have a TV, you had a radio. You had the option every night at 7:00 PM Eastern to listen to ABC, NBC, or CBS radio. Each one had their own nightly anchor like we had Tom Brokaw growing up, right? Well, they had Edwin Murrow, the famous Edwin Murrow was the anchor for CBS. I'm not sure who the anchor was for NBC, but the anchor for ABC News Radio was Raymond Gram Swing, and he'd been working for ABC News Radio at that point for 33 years.
Well, he was present at all of Gerson's testimonies and he went on his program one night and he said to the entire country, and probably the world parts of the world were probably listening as well. He said to the entire country that night, folks, forgive me if I don't have my morals correct in talking about these top stories. The Truman Anti-Racketeering Bill had been signed. Something regarding Trieste and Italy and World War II has been agreed upon. Those would have been major stories for the entire night. He spent an entire 30 to 45 minutes talking about how the cure for cancer had been found. He spent the entire time talking about Dr. Gerson and his therapy.
Well, right after that, for nine hours straight at the ABC News switchboard in Manhattan, it lit up for nine hours straight from people all over the world calling, begging to find out where do we find this cure for cancer. Two weeks later, Raymond Gram Swing was fired from his job at ABC News Radio.
This is what we dealt with then. This is what we deal with today. If you are an editor of any major media outlet, your sole fiscal responsibility is to promote the financial interests of your organization. It has nothing to do with giving your eye the truth, and that is why any editor would be out on their butt on the street if they were to ever reveal something of this nature, then and now. That is essentially the history of the Gerson Therapy and what Dr. Gerson suffered up until his death in 1959.
[00:32:44] Ashley James: Did he always practice in the United States? I know that there's the Gerson Clinic in Mexico. Did he open that or was it his children that opened that?
[00:32:55] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's right. So up until then, there were no laws prohibiting him from opening a clinic in the United States and treating people with that. The only thing would have been his license at risk, and all the other ridicule and the ostracization, which he went through wholeheartedly. It wasn't until later when Nixon declared the war on cancer in 1971 and the pharmaceutical industry started to gain a tremendous amount of power in the realm of treating cancer that then they made it illegal.
So like right now in the United States, it is literally illegal to treat cancer with anything other than chemo, radiation, and surgery, that is the law. If you want to treat people with Gerson Therapy, you cannot do it in the United States. You have to be outside the states. In 1977, 18 years after Dr. Gerson died, the therapy actually died with him. Nobody did it for 18 years until someone offered Charlotte Gerson in 1977 all the money necessary to open up the first Gerson Clinic, which was opened up in Tijuana Mexico, and she became the face of the Gerson Therapy, essentially up until the day she retired and obviously until the day she died.
It was in 1977 it was opened in Mexico, and that's what remains to this day.
[00:34:28] Ashley James: Now, is that your clinic or you have a different clinic?
[00:34:33] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yes, I have a different clinic and there are reasons for that, right? So the Gerson Institute which Charlotte originally opened and she retired from over 10 years ago, if you go to a clinic like that, you only get the Gerson Therapy as Dr. Gerson left it in 1959. That was probably the biggest tragedy that Charlotte Gerson left in her legacy. She never tried to improve on her father's therapy. Her father was the consummate scientist. He was constantly changing and perfecting his therapy based on what was coming out in the scientific literature.
So if he were alive today, his therapy, while the dietary portions may look quite similar, a lot of the things that have been revealed to us since 1959 in the scientific literature is proving beneficial to the cancer patients, there's a myriad of things that have come out. Charlotte stopped the therapy dead in its tracks from 1959. Why she did that I have my own ideas. I think having been the longest living Gerson survivor up until her death, she was the longest living Gerson survivor because her father cured her of tuberculosis at the age of 12. I mean, it almost brings tears to my eyes to even say that. You can imagine how endeared she was to her father.
I think that emotional psychological attachment made it really hard for her to change what her father left behind when he himself would have completely gone to work with the scientific literature, and that is where we are different from what remains of the Gerson Institutes Clinic.
We have taken Dr. Gerson Therapy, kept the basic foundational protocol he left for us, and we've added proven scientific therapies beneficial to the cancer patient and other degenerative disease patients. Nothing we do at our clinic is not in the scientific literature plain and simple, and so that is the difference between us and them.
[00:36:50] Ashley James: So you're just taking Gerson Therapy and then turbocharging it?
[00:36:58] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That is exactly right.
[00:37:02] Ashley James: What comes to mind is Dr. Michael Haley, one of our mutual friends. He was on my show talking about how there's a new study around aloe and consuming aloe blocks cancer. So the cancer thinks it's food because cancer loves glucose, love sugar. The aloe looks like sugar to it, but it can't digest it and eat it. So it binds to it kind of like it stuffs its mouth. It stuffs the cancer's mouth but then the cancer can't swallow it. And so then, it starves it because now the actual food can't get in. When he explained that I was mind blown.
[00:37:54] Dr. Patrick Vickers: And so that's how I know Michael, right? Well, of course, we use Michael's Aloe. Our patients get one ounce of that aloe in every single juice they get throughout the day in 13 juices. That's not the most powerful healing component of Michael's aloe. When you realize that cancer and any disease is related to gut health, you have to restore the gut. There's not a more potent healer of connective tissue and gut tissue than the aloe, Dr. Haley's raw aloe. You can't buy aloe off the store shelf, it's toxic. It's been deodorized, it's been depolarized, it's had preservatives added to it. It's toxic and dead.
Dr. Mike Haley's aloe is living, live, fresh aloe, and so that healing power, and there's a myriad of things that aloe does apart from what you and I have just discussed, but those are the two major healing properties. So this is what I mean. We've taken Dr. Gerson's therapy and we've added these things to enhance exactly what Dr. Gerson would have probably done had he had access to this information.
[00:39:15] Ashley James: Right. Yes. I love it. Okay. Now we know about Dr. Gerson. He discovered the system of how to reverse many diseases because first of all, he went to reverse his migraines and he did. Then one of his migraine patients was like, hey, by the way, my TB's gone. He's like, wait a second, I wasn't treating you for that. He's like, I thought this just got rid of migraines. So it gets rid of TB, that's crazy because that's like the Black Plague of the day, right? And then he's like, well, this must affect the immune system, what else can we treat with this?
Then he goes on to cancer, like you said. He helped Albert Schweitzer reverse his diabetes. He was trying to figure out why this diet can reverse diabetes, cancer, and migraines? So let's talk about that. If you go to an allopathic doctor, and we didn't talk about you. We haven't even talked about you yet and your background, but you don't come from the standard allopathic medical school. But if you go to a standard—and again, I could get on my soapbox and start ranting about the allopathic medical system.
[00:40:45] Dr. Patrick Vickers: I won't stop you. Go ahead.
[00:40:48] Ashley James: Individuals who go to medical school aren't inherently evil. I'm sure some of them might be statistically, but inherently, they want to do good, right? The problem is they've been indoctrinated—through their medical schools—into a system that for 150 years has been designed to brainwash the doctors into thinking their form of medicine is the only form of medicine, and everything else is “alternative”. This is a quote from one of my old Naturopathic mentors. That's like saying, a golden retriever is the only kind of dog and every other dog is an alternative dog, all right.
I mean, it's ludicrous to think that drug, chemical-based, pharmaceutical medicine is the only kind of medicine that's standard, and everything else is some back of the bus quackery, when in fact, we've been using holistic medicine, was the traditional form of medicine was the standard, and it was allopathic drug-based medicine that came in and tried to do through wonderful marketing the last 100 years, PR, and lobbying has brainwashed the public.
Hollywood also played a role in brainwashing everyone to believe within three generations that you wait to get sick, then you go to your doctor, and you get put on drugs. You wait to get sick, you go to your doctor, you get put on drugs like we're cattle. Except they treat cattle better because they've tried to prevent illness in cattle because it would cost the farmer too much money.
If you waited for a cow to get sick and then they'd have a $2,000 medical bill, that would make your hamburger be $50 instead of $5, right? So they try to keep costs down by preventing disease in the farms. This comes from one of my other Naturopathic mentors, Dr. Joel Wallach, who talks about how—oh, you know Dr. Wallach.
When I was 12 years old—I have a distinct memory—I'm sitting in the back of my mom's car and she's driving around. I'm super bored, it's a Saturday, and she has to run errands. I'm just sitting in the back of the car bored. My mom pops in because we're like, okay, well, you're bored. Let me pop in this tape. Bootlegged health lecture from Dr. Joel Wallach called Dead Doctors Don't Lie and I was on the edge of my seat. My mom was really crunchy and really into holistic medicine, so she'd read me the journals and stuff that our Naturopath would give us for bedtime reading. She never read me like nighttime stories, but she opened up the newsletter or the articles that her Naturopath would write and she'd read them to me. I learned about antioxidants when I was like nine. I'm like, this is fascinating.
Anyway, my entire life has changed. I listened to Dr. Wallach and I realized the system is broken. I'm 12 years old. I'm getting it like it's hitting me. Why is this so important? We have to shift our perspective because we've been taught that there's a specialist for your eyes. There's a specialist for your liver. There's a specialist for your skin, right? Even if you go to the Mayo Clinic, which I've heard several people say, they felt very disenfranchised because they thought it would be this—now I'm sure people have good experiences there too. I'm not saying that no one's going to have a good experience with these kinds of clinics, but what I am saying is that they still felt like there wasn't enough communication between the liver specialist, the colon specialist, and the nose, throat, and ear specialist. Whatever they were doing, it still felt like they were being taken apart and only looked at their parts.
I have a listener whose mom has kidney problems and heart problems. The kidney doctor gave her a diet that will cause her to die from heart disease. The heart doctor gave her a diet that will cause her to die from kidney failure. She was so baffled. She was like, why aren't my doctors talking to each other? They've both given me diets that will kill me. She finally got them to talk, they argued a lot, and they both could not figure out what kind of diet to put her on because they don't know about Gerson Therapy. But the point is, we're not being looked at as a whole, right?
So from the standpoint of our own training, because we have all been trained through the media to have a certain perspective, that's why we need to examine our own belief system, and really learn the history of modern medicine so we really get that we've been constantly being bombarded by a narrative that is swaying our belief system towards what they want us to think. We need to come back to the truth. The body has an innate ability to heal itself. We have to give it what the body needs.
From an MD medical standpoint, it does not make sense that a protocol, you can't give a drug to someone that's going to cure migraines, tuberculosis, cancer, and diabetes in one drug, one protocol.
[00:46:37] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's right, but you can sure make a lot of money coming up with a protocol for each, can't you?
[00:46:43] Ashley James: Right. By the way, you wouldn't be curing any of them. You would be managing the disease. Oh, Metformin. I'm so livid that doctors still prescribe this. Go read the side effects of Metformin. One of the side effects can be that it causes blood sugar imbalance. This drives me nuts. It also put my friend at a hospital for a year, and the doctors never took her off Metformin. I was the one that pointed out to her, one of the causes can be acute pancreatitis. She was in the hospital for a year with acute pancreatitis, and the doctors never took her off of it. She was just on it because she's at the age where you just want to prevent—
Excuse me, that's not how you prevent diabetes by giving people drugs before they're even remotely diabetic, but doctors are still doing it. They're off-label prescribing all the time. Seventy percent of the adult population of the United States is on at least one prescription medication, which means 70% of the adult population, not only is it completely indoctrinated in the system, but also is so sick and so unhealthy that they're using drugs to manage the symptoms. Most drugs don't cure, we have to remember that. There are only a few handful of drugs that really helped to reverse the disease. Most drugs out there do not cure, they do more harm than good, and they just manage symptoms. My thing is we have to start questioning everything so that we can undo the brainwashing.
Could you please tell me, Dr. Vickers, why is it that Gerson Therapy, what did he discover about his protocol, and why is it that it can reverse all those different diseases that seemingly are not related?
[00:48:39] Dr. Patrick Vickers: And they all are related. That's a great question. The question is, what's the secret to the Gerson Therapy? Eight movies have chronicled this man's work, no other therapy can boast even more than one or two max, but eight have chronicled5 Dr. Gerson's work, which is why Schweitzer calling the greatest genius in medical history. And if you ever read Dr. Gerson's book that he published a year before he died, that's called A Cancer Therapy: Results of 50 Case, if you ever read that, you can see the absolute work of a genius. But in that genius, it is so ridiculously simple because the secret to reversing advanced disease, which is the secret to preventing cancer and degenerative disease I literally learned in biochemistry 101.
Everything that you read in that book is biochemistry 101 ultimately, and when you read it, when you read that book, there's one word that he talks about over and over and over again, which is the secret of health and disease and what is that one word? Metabolism. We learned metabolism the first three weeks of biochemistry 101 in chiropractic school. Let's start there because that is the crux of the matter. What is metabolism? Metabolism, by definition, is the breakdown of food into energy. Okay, that's it. If there's anything that we're going to grasp, its metabolism, the breakdown of food into energy.
When you see someone who's sick and dying, what do you notice? They're lethargic. Why are they lethargic? Because they've lost the capacity to produce energy on a cellular level, and the immune system requires massive amounts of energy on a daily basis just to maintain health, let alone cure a sick and dying body. Metabolism again is the breakdown of food into energy. Every sick patient has lost that capacity. So is it any wonder, where are we taught? What are we taught? That 70% of our immune system is where?
[00:51:20] Ashley James: Our gut?
[00:51:20] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Exactly. Seventy percent of our immune system is in our gut. Well, part of the breakdown of food into energy begins in the gut. By definition, metabolism, the breakdown of food into energy starts in the gut. Every single sick human being has a deranged gut, so you must heal that. Now, where's the other 30% of the immune system? Well, once the gut breaks down the food, you must now be able to convert it into energy. So the gut absorbs everything you need for that into the bloodstream, and now cells must convert that into energy. That's where we also have destroyed everything from the day we were born.
Once the body breaks the food down, it now must convert it into energy. How does it do that? Well, inside your cells, you have this little thing called mitochondria. Mitochondria take sugar and in the presence of oxygen—and this is so absolutely vitally important, this is the other crux of the matter other than the gut. The mitochondria—only in the presence of oxygen—will convert sugar into energy. Only in the presence of oxygen. If oxygen is not present, then sugar will get converted by the mitochondria into lactic acid. We also know that as what? Fermentation, right? That's how you make wine, that's how you make beer, that's how you make kombucha. You cut off oxygen so that the sugars get converted into alcohol and/or lactic acid ultimately.
Once you heal the gut, now the gut can properly absorb the nutrients, you now have to be able to convert those nutrients into energy, which requires oxygen. In 1931, Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize in medicine for proving that cancer viruses and bacteria can not survive in a body where the cells are properly oxygenated. He went on to completely write this thesis and win the Nobel Prize on the fact that the primary factor in the body's ability to oxygenate the cell is an alkaline diet.
[00:54:19] Ashley James: Why? Do you understand why? Can you explain why?
[00:54:24] Dr. Patrick Vickers: I can't exactly explain why and it is so simple. Now, we've already discussed the gut, now we have to address the cell. I told you, inside the cell, you have little things called mitochondria that convert sugar into energy in the presence of oxygen. Now, what's around that cell? Around our cells, we have a cell membrane. That cell membrane is the gatekeeper. It determines what can go in, what has to go in, what can't go in, and it determines what must come out and what can't leave the cell. That's all determined at the level of the cell membrane.
What is that cell membrane made up of? It's made up of fats. It is a phospholipid. Lipid means fat, right? Okay, so that cell membrane's made up of phospholipids, but what fats are that cell membrane made up of?
[00:55:30] Ashley James: Cholesterol?
[00:55:31] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Whatever fats you're feeding it. Whatever fats you're feeding your body, your body's going to naturally use that to maintain the cell membranes. Well, what kind of fats is everyone eating today? Cookies, cake, ice cream.
[00:55:54] Ashley James: Polyunsaturated, fatty acids.
[00:55:56] Dr. Patrick Vickers: No, on the contrary. Well, I mean, in some of the cooking oils and stuff, right? But most people are being bombarded with saturated fats. Cookies, cake, ice cream, dairy, milk, ice cream, pizza, pasta, meat. All of these things are loaded with saturated fats, and this is what's going to make up these cell membranes. Now, why is this significant? We're going to get to the issue of alkalinity here and acidity. How many times have you heard alkalinity promotes health, acidity promotes disease, right? Yeah, how many times have we heard that, but it's never really explained on a cellular level what are the health implications of that very statement. Alkalinity and alkaline diet promotes health and acidic diet promotes disease, what does that mean?
So today, our cell membranes are made up of saturated fats. When we are talking about saturated fats, what does that mean? What are saturated fats? Saturated with? Saturated fats are saturated with hydrogen. This is very important to understand, they're saturated with hydrogen. Your fats are carbon chains and the definition of that fat will be dependent on how much those carbon chains are saturated with hydrogen. When we're talking about alkalinity and acidity, what are we talking about? We're talking about pH, right? Alkalinity and acidity, when we're talking about those two terms, we're talking about pH. What does pH stand for? Its potential hydrogen. That's it. PH is potential hydrogen.
Do you know what the definition of acidity is? The true scientific definition of acidity.
[00:58:26] Ashley James: How much hydrogen is present?
[00:58:29] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That is exactly right. The buildup of hydrogen in the body, particularly at the level of the cell membrane. Why is this significant? That cell membrane, the way it determines what gets in, what gets out is based on the electrical charge at the level of the membrane, and that electrical charge is dependent on the type of fats at the level of the cell membrane.
So if your body is bombarded with saturated fats like when you read a label as well, partially hydrogenated oil, right? Have you ever read a label and it says partially hydrogenated oils? Companies have learned that you can bubble hydrogen into their products, and when you do so, you stabilize it. When you can stabilize it, you can store it on the shelves until Christ returns. That's what they do with these products, but then there's naturally saturated fats, all the things that I mentioned previously.
What's happened is when you saturate something, you completely stabilize it and change its electrical. potential. and charge. When oxygen goes and approaches that cell, that charge literally cannot accept it and it repels it away. When you are acidic, you cannot get oxygen into the cells. So again, acidity, by definition, is the buildup of hydrogen in the body, particularly at the level of the cell membrane. By definition, acidity is the improper utilization of oxygen.
This is exactly what Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize in 1931 on by demonstrating these very principles, which I'm not going to go into it or maybe later I can, but by the way, Gerson was already demonstrating this very principle for 20 years with his dietary therapy. He already knew and understood this. Where did he graduate from? The University of Freiburg. Where did Warburg win his Nobel Prize? At the University of Freiburg.
My personal opinion is he won the Nobel Prize riding on Dr. Gerson's back. He was a researcher, Gerson was a clinician. He knew Dr. Gerson no ifs, ands, or buts about it. He won the Nobel Prize based on that very principle. When we're talking about alkalinity and acidity, we're talking about pH. When those cell membranes are loaded with hydrogen in the form of saturated fats, you cannot oxygenate tissues and you will cause disease in the body because cells then go into a state of fermentation.
What are we talking about cancer? It's a fungal fermentative organism. When it's exposed to oxygen, it cannot survive. The way you restore oxygen to the body, to the cell is through massive amounts of nutrients in the form of glucose. Glucose sugar does not cause cancer and feed cancer. It actually heals cancer. How often have you heard sugar feeds cancer? It doesn't. Sugar heals cancer. If sugar fed cancer, Ashley, we would be sending patients to their graves exponentially quicker than they're trying to get not to there because our patients are getting 3500 to 4000 calories a day in sugar in the form of fresh-pressed juices daily.
It's sugar in the presence of oxygen that gets converted into energy that rallies the immune system so that the immune system can destroy the disease. Sugar, hypothetically and theoretically, would feed cancer in an acidic body because you can't convert that sugar into energy, it would get broken down into lactic acid fermentation, and that would continue to feed the disease.
However, sugar in an alkaline body, an alkaline diet as is the Gerson Therapy, is what cures the human body of all diseases because you now reestablish the body's ability to oxygenate tissues. How do you do that? First, you have to change the fats at the level of the cell membrane. Gerson tried every oil available to him and the only oil that did not cause cancer to worsen was flax oil. Why? What is flax oil? Flax oil is a complete polyunsaturated fatty acid. Let me give you an example.
If I put flax oil, coconut oil, and olive oil in the freezer, and I put them overnight, I take them out, It's going to take me about five, six hours for me to get two to three tablespoons of coconut oil out of that jar because coconut oil is so highly saturated, it's so stable that when it freezes, it takes so long to unfreeze to thaw.
If I put olive oil in there, within two to three hours, I can probably get a few tablespoons. Why? Because olive oil is a monosaturated fat, meaning some of its carbon bonds are saturated with hydrogen, some aren't, so it's rather neutral.
Flax oil, when I put that flax oil on the freezer and I take it out, it is frozen solid. In five minutes it is completely liquid. Why? Because it has no hydrogen saturating its bonds. When you take flax oil internally and it goes to start restoring the cell membranes, the charge of flax oil literally acts as a magnet to draw oxygen into the cell. It literally sucks it into the cell. This is powerful medicine. This is how you restore metabolism. You have to restore metabolism to restore health.
Is it any wonder when we're watching the news, reading newspapers, reading magazines, and we're reading about cancer, what is one of the precipitating factors of you getting cancer? Obesity. How many times have you heard the obesity cancer link? It's because of metabolism. When you're obese, obviously your metabolism has become faulty. You restore metabolism, you restore health. It starts at the gut, then you must repair the cell. You must repair the cell membrane with the fats. Then the other thing you've got to do, you have to get all the other hydrogen running around the body out of the body and neutralize it. How do you do that? There's only one way—an alkaline diet. Let me explain.
When you juice, and the Gerson patients are getting 17 pounds of fruits and vegetables every single day in the form of juices. Do you know if you test that juice with litmus paper before you drink it, it tests acidic? But when you drink it, it gets broken down into potassium hydroxide. Now potassium hydroxide is so highly alkaline now how do you write potassium hydroxide chemically? The way you write a hydroxyl molecule chemically is OH-. How do you write the acidic hydrogen molecule? H+. So you have all these H+ molecules running around the body. You need OH- molecules to neutralize those H+ molecules. There's only one way to do that. There is no other way, it's juicing.
[01:08:17] Ashley James: Does that become water?
[01:08:18] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Exactly.
[01:08:21] Ashley James: You get OH- plus a hydrogen is H20.
[01:08:26] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Is H2O. So all of a sudden, you start bombarding the body with these massive amounts of juices, which you're creating OH- ions. They immediately start acting and interacting with the positive ions, go through the reaction, and the reaction creates H2O. H2O water is a neutral charge and all of a sudden, oxygen can begin to flow again in the body. And all of a sudden, all these sugars that you're taking in can now get converted into energy.
So you've now repaired the gut, which you can only do with food and juices. You've now neutralized the acidity, which there's only one way to do it, which is food. And now, there's one more thing you've got to do. We have to destroy the mitochondria's ability to function inside the cell. How have we done that? Salt.
Rule number one on the Gerson Therapy, absolutely no sodium other than what occurs in fruits and vegetables naturally. Why? There are two reasons why. When you eat salt and it doesn't matter if it's table salt, Celtic Salt, Himalayan Salt, salt is salt is salt. When you eat salt, you cause cellular edema. Salt and water enter the cell and they swell the cell up. My patients and the companions, they will all lose 7 to 15 pounds on a two to three-week stay when they come to our clinic just from the salt and water that they're storing and stuck inside their cells because the only way you can get that salt out once it's in there, that salt and water, is through potassium. The only way you get potassium is through raw fruits and vegetables or fruits and vegetables. There is no other way, other than possibly supplementation, right? But dietarily, the only way you can get salt and water out of the cell is through potassium. And who's eating enough fruits and vegetables to get salt and water on their cells today? Hardly anyone, that's the reality.
Rule number one on the Gerson Therapy is no salt, bombard the body with potassium not in the diet only but Dr. Gerson created a special potassium powder that the patient gets in all their juices. That just forces the excess salt and water out of the cells. The other reason why salt is so destructive to the human body is your thyroid gland. Your thyroid gland is specifically responsible—this is really important to understand—reproducing the mitochondria. The thyroid gland makes the mitochondria, the very things you need to convert sugar into energy.
So is it any wonder when someone's overweight, they're cold all the time. They have no energy. Their hair's falling out. What do we say? They're hypothyroid. The body's not producing the amount of mitochondria necessary to convert food into energy.
Well, what's the thyroid completely dependent on? It's completely dependent on iodine? What is salt? Salt is sodium chloride. Chloride displaces iodine from the thyroid gland. That's why when they came out with table salt, which is 99.999% sodium chloride, what happened? Everybody started getting goiter walking around looking like turkeys because they were getting goiter. So what did they do? They iodized it right? Just to the point so you don't get goiter.
Take Celtic Salt, Himalayan salt, it's 86 to 87% sodium chloride. You need very, very little salt on a daily basis to maintain optimal health, less than a quarter of a teaspoon. We are consuming exponentially more than that, and we're just growing the mitochondrial ability to convert food into energy.
So it is all these principles from the gut, to the cell membrane, to the neutralization of hydrogen, and the restoration of the mitochondrial function inside the cell that makes up our metabolism, the breakdown of food into energy, which is the secret to the Gerson Therapy. Dr. Gerson talks about this extensively. All of these things I've just spoken about, he talks about them extensively in his book. It's why Warburg won the Nobel Prize. This is how you must address all diseases. It makes sense, doesn't it?
[01:14:21] Ashley James: My mind is spinning. I mean, I have so many questions.
[01:14:26] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Go ahead.
[01:14:28] Ashley James: So when you said the thyroid gland makes mitochondria, can you please clarify? Does that make the mitochondria for the whole body, or is it the thyroid's making mitochondria for the thyroid gland?
[01:14:43] Dr. Patrick Vickers: No, that's its job. Its job is mitochondrial production. It is responsible for replicating, reproducing mitochondria for the cells.
[01:14:51] Ashley James: All the cells, the whole body?
[01:14:53] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yeah, that's its job. It is responsible for mitochondrial production.
[01:14:59] Ashley James: I did not expect to learn that today. That is kind of mind-blowing and I really want to go down that rabbit hole. Your thyroid gland needs to be optimally functioning so that your mitochondria can replicate in a healthy manner. The thyroid, does it talk to the mitochondria throughout the lifecycle of the cell, or is it simply responsible for making sure the mitochondria get produced?
[01:15:26] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's a great question. I can't answer that, to be perfectly honest with you.
[01:15:35] Ashley James: Regardless, we understand that the thyroid hormone is important in the metabolism, which we're talking about, right? So we got to like a little bit of a big picture, thyroid is really important. The potassium powder in the juices that you make helps the body. Now, we have to be careful. I'm sure this is why people who are on medications, right? Like people who know they're really, really off-kilter, they should be under a Gerson-trained physician like yourself, they should come to your clinic because you can't just take potassium nilly willy. If you're already sick, you could cause heart issues, muscle issues, or whatever. We can't just take potassium powder nilly willy, right? We have to make sure we're doing it correctly.
[01:16:27] Dr. Patrick Vickers: This is definitely correct. That is correct. So someone who has heart problems, kidney problems, you obviously have to be careful with the amount of potassium levels that they get, right? But I'm going to tell you something. What we're taught in chiropractic school is the same thing they're taught in medical school—too much potassium could throw the heart into AFib, A fibrillation.
Ironically and clinically, that always isn't necessarily the case. So this potassium powder has to get diluted in 32 ounces of water and then dissolved into solution. Then it's that solution that goes into the patient's juices. We have had patients go home, not dilute the potassium, and put three tablespoons or three teaspoons of that powder into each juice. If you told the medical doctor that they would absolutely freak out because that patient would immediately go into AFib.
Well, we've had countless patients do that for decades because they didn't listen and they just call us up complaining that their stomach hurts, that it burns, and that they're peeing like a racehorse. That's it because they're just dumping so much sodium and water, right? It's amazing some of the things we learn hypothetically and theoretically and what ends up happening in clinical practice, right? However, with that said, people on meds, people with heart problems, people with kidney problems, you don't screw around with potassium regardless. You do have to clarify that, but anyway, yeah.
[01:18:06] Ashley James: So salt, which is in everything, right?
[01:18:12] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Everything.
[01:18:13] Ashley James: Any packaged food, it's hard to find a packaged food that doesn't contain fats that are harmful that have hydrogen in it and salt. I try to buy healthy snacks for my son because I mean, there's only so much fruit he will eat. I swear, I will feed him three bananas a day and four oranges and five apples, it just gets to the point where like in between meals—because I don't know if you know about kids, but kids have two stomachs. They have a stomach the size of a pea and that's for meals like mealtime, and then they have a stomach that is the size of the moon and that's for snacks. My son, when it comes to eating meals, it's like I'm not hungry. He takes one bite. I'm full now. But then it's like five minutes later hunger, hunger, hunger. I just have to always have snacks with me.
So sometimes I need packaged or like shelf-stable food because we're busy and I have a really hard time finding things that don't have any hydrogenated fat and it just drives me up the wall. And then, of course, tons of salt. So we really need to become food detectives if we're going to eat something from a package. I really like a whole food plant-based diet simply because it's really easy. There's broccoli, I eat it, like one ingredient foods. There's spinach, I eat it. There's brown rice, I eat it. There's potato, I eat it. It's very simple. One ingredient, no reading, my husband loves that. It drives him up the wall, anytime I touch a package in a grocery store you bet I'm flipping it over to read the ingredients.
[01:19:56] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Me too. Me too, Ashley.
[01:19:58] Ashley James: And then he goes, ugh. My husband's just like, no. But he just stands there but then he's just like, come on. Every grocery trip is 90 minutes. And now when I buy groceries online, then I could sit there for hours and read ingredients, right? But yeah. You and I could go grocery shopping, make a day of it, and read labels. It would probably be like, oh, look at this one, this is crazy. We should do that, it'd be fun.
[01:20:30] Dr. Patrick Vickers: It’s true, Ashley. Our stores today, even our health food stores, they're so deceptive. It’s so deceptive.
[01:20:40] Ashley James: Yeah, you can't really call them health food stores anymore since the '80s. Not that I get off-topic in my interviews, but some listeners are like, why don't you just ask questions? And I'm like, it's conversational, we're going back and forth. I love having conversations. We have to understand the history, the last hundred years, study, really understand the history of our food system and really understand the history of our modern medical system.
If you understand big pharma, big agra, and big food, if you could just take those three and really study the history of it, you will make such better choices for yourself because you will understand what is going into your body and it's so sad that we have to do this. But back in the '80s, and I had a great interview with Joan Ifland, who is a Ph.D. in basically food and addiction. She's the one that made it into the DSM-IV, which I think it's DSM-5 now. She made it into the DSM-IV processed food addiction understanding.
She talked about that back in the '80s when the cigarette companies realized that tobacco companies were like, hey, we're probably going out of style starting in the '80s and they needed to do something about it because the word was out, tobacco causes cancer. They could only keep the lid on that for so long. And then they're like, well, you know what, we're in the business of addiction. We're not in the business of tobacco. We need to continue being an addiction business.
So they started to buy up every single processed food company like Kraft and all these major food companies. Basically, if you go to this grocery store and you randomly put your hand out and touch a package, it's probably owned by a tobacco company. The food made in that package was actually formulated by food scientists who are designed to figure out the exact amount of fat, sugar, and salt to cause a dopamine response similar to getting your fix of meth, heroin, or whatever, right? They really dialed in the exact chemicals and even in the healthy foods because Kashi was bought by one of those companies. So all these “healthy food companies”, once they get big enough they get bought out, and then they just get slightly changed so that there's just enough salt in it to make you crave it and make you need that dopamine high from your food.
We have to get that this is an addiction. It's like if you take a child and they were born from a mother who was on heroin, that baby was born but it's not their fault they're addicted to heroin, right? Everyone listening, unless you're like no packaged food whatsoever, everyone who eats packaged food or any kind of processed food, you are like a baby born from addiction. This was given to you as a child, the cereal, and you didn't know it. Unknowingly, they triggered the four chemicals in your brain that cause addiction.
So when you go to make these health changes that Dr. Vickers is explaining today, know that there's going to be a transition where your brain starts screaming, give me the salt, give me the salt. That's because salt, sugar, and fat, which is outlined in my episode 230 with Dr. Goldhamer. He wrote the book called The Pleasure Trap, a great book. It explains that salt, sugar, and fat are used in the food system to override your brain. So it's kind of like quitting cigarettes, right? You can do it. People can do it. People do it all the time. You have to be intentional.
When you're going to cut salt out of your diet, you have to know that it's like quitting cigarettes. You can do it, but you have to be ready for the cravings, and it's temporary. The cravings are temporary. You're saying the number one rule is cutting out salt, which obviously, there's a transition period. It takes about a month, I've heard from Dr. Goldhamer. He says it takes about a month for people to become neuro-adapted so that they start tasting food.
[01:25:24] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That’s amazing. That is exactly right. That's the experience of our patients at the clinic. You have receptors on your tongue, right? You have receptors on your tongue for salt, sweet, sour, and bitter. Your receptors have become so dull that they can no longer taste the natural sodium in fruits and vegetables. When patients come to our clinic, the first week or two, they absolutely hate the food. Even though the food is absolutely delicious, they hate it. But right around the end of their second week, third week, they start raving about the food because they have neuro-adapted those receptors. They've cleansed those receptors to now where they can actually start to taste what real food is supposed to taste like. That man, that's brilliant because that's exactly our experience.
[01:26:23] Ashley James: The Gerson diet—just to recap what you said in the big picture—is making your cells so healthy again, because the salt is swelling them and not letting oxygen in. If you don't let oxygen into the cell, then the mitochondria is going to ferment your food in because there's not enough oxygen and it needs the oxygen and the sugar, but if there's a lack of oxygen, it's anaerobic, so it causes fermentation, it increases lactic acid, and then you feel sluggish and slow, you get stiff, and you get achy. People go like, I have arthritis or I kind of feel achy. It feels very gross. It feels like your muscle’s flu-like symptoms. Sometimes you have too much lactic acid.
You’re kind of achy, you're really slow, you're tired, you're sluggish, you've got brain fog, and you just feel like poop, right? Unfortunately, when people feel like that, they go towards the foods that will mask it.
[01:27:23] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Quick fix.
[01:27:24] Ashley James: The quick fixes, right? Like sugar, coffee, and fast food, something that'll just kind of get them through the day, unfortunately. Coffee doesn't give us energy. It suppresses the nervous system experiencing tiredness. It's just like if you had a headache, you took Advil, it doesn't make the headache go away. It just makes the experience get numbed. So coffee doesn't give us energy. It just tricks you into thinking you're not as tired as you actually are.
[01:27:53] Dr. Patrick Vickers: It's ultimately stimulating metabolism, right? Which is energy, right? It's stimulating energy production. The caffeine is, and it's deriving some of that probably from fat or stored up glucose somewhere, stored glycogen, but that's why you're getting a quick hit of energy obviously, which is like any drug like cocaine or whatever.
[01:28:15] Ashley James: Right. The problem is it's not from your mitochondria, that energy is not from your mitochondria.
[01:28:19] Dr. Patrick Vickers: It is the mitochondria.
[01:28:22] Ashley James: Sorry, yes, performing in a healthy way. You're forcing it to do something, but it's not performing in the optimal, in a healthy way.
[01:28:30] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yeah, that's right.
[01:28:32] Ashley James: Okay. So salt is not helping because it's swelling the cell. We need oxygen into the cell. The oxygen’s not getting into the cell because the fats we're consuming are full of hydrogen. Can you explain why is it that—I'm imagining. If we can all just imagine a cross-section of a cell and you've got this fat layer that's the cell wall, if there's hydrogen all through that, why is oxygen having a hard time passing through the cell?
[01:29:02] Dr. Patrick Vickers: It’s the charge.
[01:29:03] Ashley James: Okay.
[01:29:04] Dr. Patrick Vickers: See, so that cell membrane’s charged based on the fat. That cell’s either going to accept the charge or repel a charge. A saturated fat membrane is literally going to repel oxygen away from the cell. It will literally drive it away. Whereas flax oil, which has no saturated bonds, literally acts as a magnet. It draws it into the cell. Yeah, that's it.
[01:29:38] Ashley James: So fascinating.
[01:29:39] Dr. Patrick Vickers: It is, it's incredible. It's an issue of biophysics, not an issue of biochemistry, ultimately. It's actually biophysics.
[01:29:48] Ashley James: I love it. Okay. So no salt, take some flax oil daily, and drink fresh juice daily.
[01:29:57] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's right.
[01:29:58] Ashley James: First thing in the morning, best time to drink it, throughout the day. When’s the best time to drink it?
[01:30:04] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Our patients are getting every hour on the hour for 12 hours straight. They're getting 13 juices a day.
[01:30:10] Ashley James: Okay. And how many ounces is that?
[01:30:13] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Eight ounces.
[01:30:14] Ashley James: Okay. And they're also eating food in addition to that. This isn't the juice fast.
[01:30:20] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's exactly right, and this needs to be very understood. So when a patient comes to you, comes to our clinic, what did I say in the beginning when we started talking science? What is completely destroyed and deranged? Their gut, right? Their gut is completely destroyed and deranged.
If you put a cancer patient on an all-raw diet, they won't do well. So if you give them the juices and you give them meals that are all raw, they will not do well. Gerson was absolutely adamant that their three meals every day were thoroughly cooked. Well people say, well, oh, it destroys the nutrients, it destroys the enzyme. He didn't care. You were getting all the nutrients in the enzymes in the 13 fresh-pressed juices, 17 pounds every single day. Those are absorbed into the bloodstream almost as quickly as alcohol with very little energy and enzymes required to utilize them.
Meals on the other hand, cancer patients cannot handle raw cauliflower, raw broccoli, raw carrots, raw whatever. It needs to be thoroughly cooked because cooking is actually a form of pre-digestion so that they can easily convert that food into energy. That was a huge, huge, huge issue for Dr. Gerson. He was so adamantly against a raw food diet for a cancer patient apart from the juices on a daily basis.
[01:31:59] Ashley James: Now, you mentioned that cancer is a fungal infection.
[01:32:11] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, it's fungal and fermentative in nature. That's how it survives. We know what survives on anaerobic metabolism. That's how it survives.
[01:32:26] Ashley James: Except that there's a form of lung cancer that doesn't, but all other cancer does. There's one form of lung cancer they found that didn't do that, which is kind of weird. I can't remember the doctor that told me about it, sorry. You said it's fungal fermentation. Do you believe that tumors are an encapsulated fungal infection?
[01:32:54] Dr. Patrick Vickers: No, I don't necessarily believe that. Look, you and I have cancer, right? We all have cancer. Every single day, our body's destroying that cancer. There comes a point, and it's usually right around the fifth decade of life because that is the standard mean age of the people who come to my clinic that the body just loses the capacity to destroy cancer cells and these cancer cells start to accumulate and accumulate then they form a tumor ultimately. I wouldn't say that's necessarily a fungal infection, so to speak. No.
[01:33:36] Ashley James: Okay. But it's acting like fungus in that it is anaerobic?
[01:33:42] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yeah, that's right.
[01:33:44] Ashley James: Okay. Does Gerson Therapy help the immune system see the cancer? Because the problem with cancer is that the immune system doesn't see it. It's like it has a cloaking device.
[01:34:00] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, it's able to put a biofilm around itself, right? So cancer cells, and that's a great question because melanoma and lymphoma, which are our two greatest successes, do not have the ability to put a biofilm around themselves to make themselves undetectable to the immune system. Whereas all your other cancers have that ability. Clearly, the Gerson Therapy is able to break down that biofilm.
Well, how would you break down that biofilm? Simple, I mean, we know ellagic acid like in cranberries. We know that that can break down the biofilm. So no doubt these fruits and vegetables are breaking down those, and then the massive amounts of enzymes that we also give, you can rest assured those enzymes are going to dissolve that biofilm that the cancer cell puts around itself, and then the immune system can readily attack it. But again, that's why lymphoma in melanoma, they're so easy to treat and they're easy to treat because they can't hide from the immune system. So you put someone on the Gerson Therapy and the immune system readily attacks the cancer because it has no defense. Pretty cool stuff, huh?
[01:35:14] Ashley James: It is really cool. So for those who don't have those two kinds of cancers and they do have a kind of cancer that has a biofilm, you give them supplements.
[01:35:27] Dr. Patrick Vickers: I don't give ellagic. I've been banging around the idea of giving patients ellagic acid as a supplement because you can get it as a supplement, but I'm just not sure how the digestive tract in the body can handle that in a cancer patient. I just haven't been quick to jump on giving that as a supplement. If somebody said to me, hey, I'm interested in doing ellagic acid when I go home, I mean, I probably say, well, okay, I mean, I guess give it a shot. But I mean, historically, look, if it ain't broke, you don't fix it, right?
Historically, clearly, we've been able to break down biofilm and cure cancer because that's 120 years of the history of the Gerson Therapy. Whatever we're doing is breaking down that biofilm, and so I'm just not ready to take that leap where we're just bombarding the body with things to break down the biofilm because clearly, we're already doing that.
[01:36:29] Ashley James: If someone ate cooked cranberries like they made a cranberry sauce, would they get enough of it in their food?
[01:36:37] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's a great question. I'm not sure how much. When you cook things high in oxalic acid, you actually eliminate the risk of a buildup of oxalic acid. I don't know if you cook something, what happens to the acid when you're doing that. So if they cooked the cranberries, I really don't know. But I will say something. Chris Wark from Chris Beat Cancer who's been in my clinic many times, he endorses my clinic. He once sent me a study somewhere where they tested all the fruits that we have available to us today. I don't know if it's in the states, around the world, or whatever.
But in that study, they tested all fruits, its effect, and its ability to stop cancer dead in its tracks. Of all the fruits they studied, two stood out clearly amongst the rest as being able to stop cancer dead in its tracks. That was lemon and cranberry. They stood out like way beyond the rest—lemon and cranberry. We've actually added lemon to the Gerson protocol, which Gerson had lemon before he changed his juicing protocol in 1952. He had lemon, so we've reintroduced it so to speak. Yeah, we put in our carrot juice now.
[01:38:01] Ashley James: Yum. And I love fresh lemon squeezed into water just first thing in the morning, also. Count that one back. What do we need to understand about preventing disease? Pretty much everyone who's listening wants to be healthier than they are now, right? Not everyone listening has a cancer diagnosis or a major disease diagnosis.
[01:38:32] Dr. Patrick Vickers: We're going on one out of every two if we're not there already, right?
[01:38:40] Ashley James: Yeah. My listeners are enlightened. They're with you. They're like, yeah, we're going to go drink the juice and screw that salt. We're with you. I say this all the time on my show, so if you're a longtime listener you've heard me say, if you want to be a statistic, eat like everyone else. Go with the herd. Go with the flow, drive-thru McDonald's, drive-thru Starbucks. Just go through the drive-thrus, order takeout. Just eat like everyone else, get some frozen pizza, drink some beer, just be like everyone else. Be like how everyone else is doing it and you will be part of the statistics, right?
So the statistics is one in three people have diabetes or are pre-diabetic. One in three people are obese and soon to be morbidly obese, and the thing is there's so much shame and guilt around that. The fact is again, it's like the baby being born of a mother who is addicted to heroin. It's not the baby's fault. This is not your fault. You were put in a system since birth that is designed to make you sick, not healthy. As we can see from Dr. Gerson's life, he is the man who figured out how to cure cancer almost a hundred years ago, right?
[01:40:09] Dr. Patrick Vickers: And virtually every other disease as well.
[01:40:11] Ashley James: And was completely squashed on purpose. The system that we live in does not want you to know the truth about anything that would eliminate their power and their profits. The diseases you have now, they're not your fault in that you didn't know these forces have been controlling your life. This is like the matrix, right? But once you are outside the matrix, it is your fault if you continue to choose the behaviors, and still I don't fault you because again, it's an addiction, we're constantly being bombarded by our friends, our family, the media.
We have to become the salmon. We have to become the black sheep. We have to become the salmon. We have to go upstream. But imagine you're the only salmon in the stream and every other fish is going to the ocean and we're like, no, I got to go this way going against the grain. Sometimes it's lonely. Join our Facebook group, Learn True Health Facebook group then you're not going to be alone. Thousands of listeners are just like you in the same boat. They're the black sheep of their family. They want to get healthy. The rest of their friends are wanting to go out partying, drink beer, eat wings, or whatever.
The thing is it takes a complete mental shift, and it also takes being kind to yourself because you are that baby born of an addicted mother. You're born into this and now you're being birthed out of it. Now you get to decide, are you going to go down the steps and eliminate salt, increase your potassium drinking juice? Are you going to incorporate flax oil and cut out all other unhealthy oils? Are you going to go through the list, and I'm sure that Dr. Vickers has a lot more homework he can give us.
But now that we understand the science, the science is to heal the cell wall, heal the cell, heal the metabolism of the cell, and don't do anything to impede it. Support the thyroid and the mitochondria to work healthfully to receive oxygen. That alone decreases inflammation in the body, removes the oxidative stress from the body, and helps restore the gut. I mean, those things, I don't know an illness that that wouldn't help. It's very exciting. What we have to understand is that it just doesn't end today, just listening to this. This is now the stepping point where we need to start taking action. We need to take actionable steps.
So, like I said, not everyone listening is in a disease state right now. There are some people listening who need to do it 110% go to your clinic and do that. Absolutely go to gersonclinic.com, check it out, go to your clinic, and get doctor-supervised transitioning into this therapy. And then there are those of us who have some minor things they're dealing with and want to prevent it from getting worse and want to start heading in the right direction.
[01:43:34] Dr. Patrick Vickers: We have programs for them as well, right?
[01:43:36] Ashley James: Do you have virtual programs?
[01:43:38] Dr. Patrick Vickers: No, we don't do online remote consulting at this point just because I'm so busy. I mean, I'm just ridiculously busy and I don't have people trained up to provide that sole service, and that's why we have a clinic where people come and they spend a week and do a detox or two weeks and do a detox. I mean, on my website, we just created a store within the last six months. There is like a month supply or a three-month supply of the Gerson Therapy supplements and included in that is a one-hour consultation with me. My time is so limited that if everybody started buying that, I don't think I'd be able to keep up. But I do offer that included in that package, but that's really the only thing that we have that's of that nature.
[01:44:31] Ashley James: Got it. I would love to see in the future something where one of your cohorts of people coming into your clinic, you recorded all the seminars or educational pieces and then put that together online. So either those who need a refresher could take it or those who want to learn more, if they can't travel for whatever reason, it would be really cool to get that, maybe have a digital course.
[01:45:01] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, for your listeners, for example, if your listeners go to our website, there's a section you can click on that says gift. If you go to gift, your listener goes to gift, click on gift and put in the password podcast. They can actually listen to our private video series that's only for our clientele that comes to the clinic. You can tell your listeners to do that. Hit the gift section on our website, put in the password podcast, and they can watch all of my interviews, my lectures on the very things we're talking about on the therapy, all of those private videos they can have access to.
[01:45:52] Ashley James: Sweet, awesome, thank you. I mean, of course I want everyone to go to your clinic, but for those of us who can't at this very moment, I love them. I'd love for people to just today do that because we got to start learning more and making it part of our routine. When I learned something completely revolutionary, I'm like, oh, yeah, I've got to do this. And then life happens and all of a sudden I'm back in that old routine. We need to make sure that we make this a habit that lasts.
We've talked about some things that people do for major illnesses. What homework do we do to prevent disease that's really important?
[01:46:40] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, we've addressed the nutritional portions and how to reverse the underlying causes of a disease. We're at the ultimate restoration of metabolism, which you do through diet, right? But there are some things we haven't talked about. For example, you have to address the issue of toxicity. Patients coming to us, they're so incredibly toxic from years of a toxic lifestyle, toxic environmental exposure. Then when you put them on a therapy like this, you're generating even more toxicity, right? You're breaking down diseased tissue, you're breaking down tumor tissue, you're rebuilding new tissue. The juicing is pulling toxicity stored up for years, decades out of the cells back into the bloodstream.
If you don't detoxify those patients, they'll all die. You cannot put them on the dietary regimen without the proper detoxification.
You kind of alluded to this at the beginning of the interview with bathroom procedures. Dr. Gerson made the coffee enema famous. Our patients are getting five coffee enemas per day—five per day. There's not a more powerful way to detoxify the human body than a coffee enema, and that includes prevention as well.
[01:48:06] Ashley James: That's one thing they mentioned in one of the documentaries I saw is that Gerson was having great success in Germany reversing cancer. And then when he came to New York City, when did he come to York City? What year?
[01:48:22] Dr. Patrick Vickers: I want to say probably the mid-30s.
[01:48:25] Ashley James: So mid-30s. Gasoline was leaded, I believe, so we can imagine in a busy city, people are breathing in lead all the time. There are no regulations for factories not dumping into anything—mercury, any kind of sludge—into the creeks, and then people might eat the fish like the Minamata disaster in Japan where people were born with major mercury deformations because of the mercury being dumped into the streams that led out into Minamata, which was a fishing village.
This is the same thing happening, and all of a sudden, he does the same protocol that was working in Germany, but he noticed that the people would immediately die. You didn't mention that because it probably isn't a great part of the story like, and then everyone died of the therapy. But what I found fascinating was that he figured out, he had to troubleshoot, why are people in Germany living and beating cancer, and then I come here with the same protocol and people in New York City will drop dead very quickly of toxicity?
[01:49:43] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Oh, no. I think he discovered early on in Europe that if he didn't detoxify his patients he would lose them. I'm not sure that was discovered necessarily in the United States.
[01:49:56] Ashley James: Well then the movie got it wrong, but I thought that was really interesting and I thought maybe it had to do with America being more toxic, and I mean, still toxic today, but in terms of lead in the gasoline so the environment.
[01:50:11] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Maybe it was the cancer patient then because he didn't start treating cancer until he got to the United States, right? That might have happened with the cancer patients, some of the cancer patients at first. The first one he did he completely cured her, right? How he did that without coffee enemas, I'm not sure if he maybe didn't do enough coffee enemas going forward, I don't know. At one point during his practice, he lost his first few patients because he didn't detoxify them heavily enough and they went into more toxic shock, ultimately, and that's where the five coffee enema protocol was ultimately derived.
[01:50:53] Ashley James: That's why I think it's so important to point this out because some people say, well, I'm going to do Gerson therapy, but I'm not going to do the coffee enemas because that's weird.
[01:51:01] Dr. Patrick Vickers: You can't.
[01:51:02] Ashley James: Some people are like, well, I'm going to do it, but I'm not going to eat breakfast because I don't like eating breakfast or whatever. If you're reversing your cancer with Gerson therapy, you don't cherry-pick what you like and what you don't like.
[01:51:13] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's exactly right.
[01:51:14] Ashley James: He trialed and errored this and got to the point he's having the greatest success, and you could add things on like aloe. It's not going to hurt, it's only going to help more, but you don't take things away. So you say one coffee enema a day for those who are just looking to prevent disease.
[01:51:32] Dr. Patrick Vickers: I've been doing one a day for 25 years.
[01:51:36] Ashley James: So could you explain why coffee enemas help to detox the body?
[01:51:44] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Absolutely. And it's pure science, it's not voodoo science. Your liver produces an enzyme called glutathione transferase. Glutathione transferase is the most potent detoxifying enzyme or one of the most potent detoxifying enzymes in the human body. Well, your liver needs palmitic acid in order to create glutathione transferase. Well, properly roasted organic coffee from a specific bean, not a drinking bean, is loaded with palmitic acid.
It's been demonstrated scientifically by Peter Lechner, you can Google it, Peter Lechner. It has been demonstrated that when you do one coffee enema, the production of glutathione transferase by the body goes up 600 to 700% greater than normal. I mean, there is nothing that can produce that kind of detoxification.
Now, what people don't understand is when you do the coffee enema and you stimulate that production, that requires massive amounts of nutrients. So if you're not replenishing the body with nutrients in the form of juices and massive amounts of organic produce on a daily basis, you'll actually cause yourself more harm than good over time because you're going to deplete the body over time. That's why drinking coffee, you deplete your body of nutrients so much because you're losing so many vitamins and minerals because it's a diuretic. It's artificially stimulating metabolism, which requires nutrients.
When you do a coffee enema, the rule is three to four juices for every coffee enema. So if I do one coffee enema day, I'm literally eating three to five pounds of fresh organic produce every single day, raw. That's to balance my system. But that's the main thing that the Gerson coffee enema does.
The other thing it does, is as you and I are sitting here, if we're talking for 15 minutes, our blood is circulating through our liver and our kidneys. It's being cleansed two and a half times in a 15-minute period going through our liver and our kidney for cleansing, dialysis, so to speak.
When you do a coffee enema, it must be because of the hypovolemic state because you're now adding a quart of liquid to you. You must increase the flow of fluid through the body. You're actually running your blood through the liver and the kidneys five times rather than two and a half times. So it's a natural form of dialysis, so to speak. That's another side benefit, so to speak, of the Gerson therapy.
Finally, the other thing it does is it releases bile and it causes bile to flow, and that's what your toxins are ultimately bound to. The way the liver detoxifies is cholesterol gets converted into bile acids, and then bile binds toxins and eliminates it through the intestines and the kidneys. So that's the other thing that the Gerson coffee enema does. It produces bottom bile flow, which is also enhancing detoxification.
[01:55:01] Ashley James: And then we have to make sure that we have something that's going to carry that all the way out, so don't be constipated because the body tries to reuptake cholesterol from bile and it'll reuptake some of those forever chemicals. All those chemicals the body's trying to get rid of because the gut doesn't know the difference, right? It's costly to make bile, and so the body tries to reabsorb it. We want to make sure we're getting enough fiber, that 15 grams a day, that average American diet, that's not going to cut it. Aim for 50 grams of fiber a day, 100 grams of fiber. But the juices, there's still some fiber in juice, right? I know that we do remove pulp, but can you also take some pulp and throw them back in or can make dehydrated crackers out of it.
[01:55:53] Dr. Patrick Vickers: There's no reason. If you're eating three Gerson meals a day, there's no reason.
[01:56:00] Ashley James: What is a Gerson meal? Maybe we should give it a picture. What does it look like to eat three Gerson meals a day?
[01:56:08] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Every morning is oatmeal with dried fruit stewed into it, so prunes, raisins, and mango. What else do we eat? Sometimes we throw currants in there. That's it. It's oatmeal and dried fruit, and then they get an orange juice every morning. Flax oil is mandatory. Two tablespoons of flax oil every single day is mandatory. And they can have a natural sweetener. They can have up to two to three teaspoons a day maximum of a natural sweetener, so honey, a sucanat, maple syrup they can put in their oatmeal, so that's breakfast.
Lunch and dinner, mandatory are potatoes. Potatoes are a staple. They're so easily converted into energy by the body, and so Gerson made potatoes staple. There's also something called Hippocrates Soup. Mandatory is Hippocrates Soup at lunch and dinner. It was actually a soup created by Hippocrates 2500 years ago. Now, Hippocrates is considered the greatest physician that ever lived. Ironically, Gerson used his work and Paracelsus' his work to come to his conclusions and ultimately formed the Gerson therapy.
So Hippocrates Soup and potatoes are a staple, then any other vegetable. It might be asparagus, it might be squash, it might be onions or tomatoes, all of those things can make up another vegetable dish. That pretty much derives the Gerson Therapy meals, they're simple.
We have very artistic chefs. We have vegetarian artistic chefs. I mean, they're brilliant. They take fruits and vegetables and they literally turn it into appetizing art, and so it's amazing what you can do with what God gave us. I mean, fruits and vegetables and the combinations you can make are just fascinating and just scrumptious.
[01:58:16] Ashley James: I love it. I didn't hear any—some people are going to freak out—protein in that. Can you please explain? How am I going to get my 500 grams of protein a day that everyone tells me I need?
[01:58:35] Dr. Patrick Vickers: One of the biggest fallacies out there is how much protein the human body needs and what kind of protein the human body needs. I can't tell you how many times people ask me that question, where am I going to get my protein on this diet? Well, where does a horse or a cow get their protein from? Are they cannibals? Are they pumping iron all day long and building that muscle mass that way? No, they're not. How are they getting their protein to support their massive structures? They're eating grass all day.
[01:59:16] Ashley James: Elephants.
[01:59:18] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yeah, they're eating greens.
[01:59:19] Ashley James: Right? Largest land mammals.
[01:59:22] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Exactly. They're eating greens. Greens are loaded with proteins. Carrots are loaded with protein. Potatoes are loaded with protein. They are, I thought they were a carb? No. They're a carb, they're a protein, they're virtually a perfect food. Oatmeal, protein; lentils, protein; quinoa, protein. I mean, you combine these things and you get them all in your diet on a daily basis and your body will be able to take those amino acids and completely make a protein for your optimal survival.
You do not need meat, you do not need eggs, you do not need milk, you do not need cheese in order to get protein into your diet. It is one of the biggest fallacies and tragedies out there because meat and all those other things I mentioned, are such inferior proteins. They're inferior proteins to keep the body optimally fit and healthy.
[02:00:25] Ashley James: And the fat, the diet is pretty much naturally low in fat minus the flax oil that you're adding. How much flax oil should someone eat a day? Is it something they're eating just by the spoonful, pouring it kind of like cod liver oil into the spoon, or are they putting it on their salad? Obviously, they're not cooking with it? How much flax oil should someone be consuming a day and how do they eat it?
[02:00:58] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Just to clarify something, all our foods, whether it's a fruit, a vegetable, or whatever, pretty much comes with everything we need from protein, to sugar, to even essential fatty acids. You wouldn't even necessarily have to supplement with flax oil if you're eating a proper diet. Even spinach and greens have essential fatty acids in them.
A healthy person, if they got one tablespoon of flax oil a day, that would probably be optimal. It's a highly, highly concentrated fat right? I mean, how many freaking flax seeds do you have to press to get a tablespoon of flax oil, right? Our patients have to do two per day when they're cancer patients, but then at six weeks, they have to go down to one because you can't bombard the body that long with such a highly concentrated fat and it's not necessary. In the beginning, they needed to do that because they need to restore the proper fats at the level of the cell membrane, but after six weeks, Gerson felt like he could wean them off or wean them down. They would continue one tablespoon for the rest of their protocol.
To put one tablespoon a day into your diet, whether it's on a salad or in the oatmeal. I put it on the oatmeal, I put it in the potato, I put it on the salad until I have essentially a tablespoon a day. I don't take more than that.
[02:02:41] Ashley James: What kind of flax oil because I know there are doctors out there like Dr. Wallach who say we shouldn't eat any oil out of a bottle because it's rancid and it's going to increase—
[02:02:54] Dr. Patrick Vickers: This is true.
[02:02:57] Ashley James: It can potentially increase the hydrogen in the body. It can give it more free radicals. Of course, this entire diet would really help to mitigate that. What kind of flax oil is best to take?
[02:03:10] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Okay. So obviously, it has to be cold-pressed right, and there are a few companies that produce a really high quality flax oil. We get ours from Omega Nutrition. Barlean's, perfect. Barlean's not a problem. They're just as good of a producer as Omega. Those are the two that I would highly recommend.
Now, in terms of getting rancid, you're exactly right. Flax oil is highly volatile. What makes it volatile is what? It doesn't have any hydrogen bonds, that's what gives it its volatility and it's quick to go rancid. Now, what does quick to go rancid mean?. Well, that cold-pressed oil is in an opaque bottle and it's also refrigerated, so it's not exposed to light, heat, or air until you open it then it's exposed to air. But it's not exposed to light and it's not exposed to heat.
If you continue to refrigerate it, a 12-ounce bottle will last you for three weeks. It should last you for three weeks. At the end of three weeks, that's when it'll start to break down. But for two to three weeks, you can use that oil perfectly, keep it refrigerated, and it will stay completely fresh. And then from there, they say pretty much after three to four weeks, you might want to consider throwing it away because it'll start to break down even if you just open it up, pour it, close it, put it in the fridge. But it should last you anywhere for around three weeks.
But fish oil. Do you know fish oil they say is like 5 to 10 times more volatile than flax oil? And so, these supplements, they put them into these capsules, they put them into bottles and stuff. When you take those fish oils, you know how you burp and it has that fishy taste? That's already gone rancid. These companies that are producing fish oil, they'll tell you publicly because they're trying to sell you their product how pure, unrefined, and how un-rancid their oils are. But reality is, behind closed doors, it is impossible to keep their oils pure. That's why when you take them, you burp, and you taste that fishy taste, that means it's gone rancid because true fish oil right from the fish when you eat it, it doesn't have that taste. It has a pure almost like flax oil taste.
Fish oil, I would never touch it. Not to mention, where's that fish oil coming from? It's coming from the fat of the fish. Where do the mercury and the toxicity in the oceans get stored? In the fat of the fish. However much you try to distill it and distill the heavy metals and stuff out there, you're not going to succeed in getting most of that out. I don't buy it. I never touch it. Flax oil is my go-to guy.
[02:06:19] Ashley James: I love it. This is something we can all do. We can incorporate these things. It does take about a month to neuro-adapt fully, but we can look to see significantly less inflammation. This is incredible for those who are in pain. I mean, just the whole food plant-based diet alone. No oil, let's say. A whole food plant-based diet, no oil, so no processed food, no oil. My friend Naomi who actually had her on the show because she reversed a major heart condition with the whole food plant-based diet with no oil.
Her parents got on it. I think they're in their 70s, really nice people. Her mom reversed her arthritis-like major arthritis pain, kind of like preventing needing surgeries in the future kind of arthritis. She no longer has arthritis, and I think it was like three weeks in which she said to her daughter, hey, my arthritis pain is gone. That just blew my mind because we're taught that arthritis is wearing away of the cartilage. I've seen people reverse arthritis. I've seen Dr. Wallach reverse arthritis. I know it's reversible.
MDs will tell you it's not. I remember back in college, [inaudible 02:07:47] was a neurosurgeon in Croatia and he escaped the war and came over to Canada. He was my professor. Later I think he was like the Dean of the Naturopathic College in Toronto. I remember in anatomy class, he said, you cannot regrow cartilage. This is like 1999. He goes, you cannot regrow cartilage. Once you have arthritis, you will always have arthritis. He was really adamant. Do not even think that arthritis is reversible. Once you've lost cartilage you could never get it back.
I thought, this is ridiculous. You're expecting me to think that like you were the cartilage you're born with is the cartilage you're always going to have or something. It's so silly. Of course, the body can regenerate cartilage. Are you wearing your body down faster than you can regrow it? If you're not giving yourself the raw building blocks, if you're not giving yourself the material it needs to grow—the bones, the joints, the cell walls—and then you're dosing gasoline on yourself and then lighting it on fire every day with your habits, of course you're going to go downhill. Of course, the cartilage is going to wear away because you're dousing yourself with flames and then not giving yourself anything to rebuild, not enough. It's like everyone else. You can be like everyone else; you're going to become a statistic.
But we can reverse these diseases. That's exciting. MDs will tell you you cannot reverse these because that's their training. We have to start thinking for ourselves and question everything. Question absolutely everything and don't take our word for it, question us too. Go look into this stuff. Go try it for yourself. See how you are. Give it three months, I'd say. What happens to people in three months? If we all jumped in and did this for the next three months, what would we expect to feel, what would we expect to happen in our bodies?
[02:10:05] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Oh, wow. I mean, look like Albert Schweitzer, severely advanced diabetes six weeks, Dr. Gerson cured him. Someone scheduled for triple quadruple bypass surgery, in one month we're canceling their surgeries. You want to lose weight? Our patients are losing anywhere from a quarter to a pound a day until they're normal weight. Now people say, well, how on earth can you lose a pound a day if you're consuming 3500 to 4000 calories? Because the experts say that you have to consume anywhere from a maximum of 1200 to maybe 1500 if you're going to lose weight.
Well, how is it that on the Gerson Therapy consuming 3500 to 4000 calories per day that you can lose anywhere from a quarter to a pound per day?
[02:10:55] Ashley James: You're healing the metabolism.
[02:10:56] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Because the issue of weight loss has nothing to do with caloric intake. It has everything to do with being able to convert those calories into energy, and that is everything that we have spoken about today. We have restored metabolism from the gut, to the cell membrane, to the internal part of the cell so the mitochondria can convert those calories into energy, and that is proper and healthy weight loss. Massive amounts of caloric intake. Imagine that, and the experts tell you you've got to starve yourself on 1200 to 1500 calories per day if you want to lose weight. That's bogus. It's nonsense. They don't understand the cellular science behind it, and that's what made Gerson such an elemental genius.
He has taken modern nutritional ideas and theories, whether it's weight loss, the ketogenic diet, and turned it up on its head. This is what you can expect on the Gerson Therapy. Skin conditions. Do you have a severe skin condition? A lot of our patients come in with severe skin conditions because typically, your skin conditions are underlying metabolic errors and preconditions to cancer. They come in with skin conditions, within three months, their skin conditions are completely resolved—three months. This is what you can expect.
[02:12:35] Ashley James: I love it. This is so exciting. I realized I've had you on the show for two hours now. I could talk to you for another five. I'd love to have you back on the show. Dr. Patrick Vickers, it has been such a pleasure having you.
This way of eating goes completely against the grain, in terms of weight loss, great read. I listen to the book. Who figured, right? I love podcasts, I like listening to books. Proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Davis, just listen to the first chapter. He tells his story. He's a second-generation weight loss surgery doctor. He made a name for himself cutting people's stomachs out. He was in Texas and he was working with 600-pound plus patients, and his dad did too. He was on Bravo, he had a reality show, he had a book out. He was all about the lower fat, processed food, 1200-calorie day diet.
In his 30s, he started feeling sluggish, he started getting a little tubby. He started feeling more and more tired. He was eating the same thing that he told his patients to eat like high protein, low carb, low fat cheese, low fat yogurt, and he just started to just feel sicker and sicker.
He used to think his patients were just lazy because they said, I'm too tired to go to the gym. He's like, you're just lazy, and then he noticed he was too tired. He's like, oh man, this diet that I put everyone on I'm on, it's failing me. So then the kicker, he's 35 years old, he's a surgeon, and he starts to lose his eyesight. He goes to the eye doctor and they say, you have cholesterol deposits in your eyes so bad that your eyes are like a 60-year-old man and you're going to have to be on, and he gives him like a long list full of drugs for the rest of your life. Cholesterol meds, high blood pressure, all blood thinners, whatever. He was put on so many meds.
He goes home and he sits there and goes, my lifespan is now just cut short because these meds will cause my lifespan to be cut short. He's 35 years old and he has to eat humble pie. He realizes everything he's been telling all his patients is wrong.
He goes back to the drawing board and that's when he discovers the stuff that you're teaching. That this way of eating is the way to heal the body, and then he heals himself and he has to completely eat humble pie, and that's when he produced the Proteinaholic, which is his journey of discovering the true science of health. He debunks like 30 different diets. He debunks keto. He debunks everyone that's all mainstream, and he does it in a very fun manner. It's a really interesting book. I apologize, this isn't meant to offend you. I don't think there's one doctor on the planet that has the entire truth.
[02:16:01] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Well, exactly, right?
[02:16:03] Ashley James: But it is up to us as the individual consumer to go and learn from each one and then figure out what works for me, right? We listened to Dr. Patrick Vickers and we listened to this doctor here and this doctor here, and we started to get this full picture. Dr. Wallach says no oil all the time ever. So I'm like, okay, great. No oil time ever. But then Dr. Patrick Vickers comes along and says, well, actually, flax oil has all these benefits. You take it in this way, and also, yes, I agree the other oils are good. And then we look at that and go okay, I'm going to try this on. We just have to continue to get the information from these amazing doctors, especially the clinicians because they're boots on the ground seeing the results.
[02:16:54] Dr. Patrick Vickers: That's exactly right.
[02:16:54] Ashley James: Implement it into our lives. Question everything. I like to say, I'm the biggest open-minded skeptic. Question everything, but also have an open mind enough to take in information that goes against your belief system.
I was a meat eater through and through and I was scared of having one meal without meat. You bet this challenged me and I didn't want to hear it. I did not want to hear it. My husband went overnight, after I did these interviews like I did some plant-based interviews, my husband started looking into this information. Overnight, he went from never eating vegetables, only eating meat, to never eating meat again four years ago. He woke up and said, I'm never eating meat.
He would make a joke,I eat vegans daily because all he ate was beef. He'd eat pork for breakfast and then before lunch and dinner, and that was it, or eggs maybe, but that was it. That was his diet. He was on a carnivore diet. And then a switch flipped in his brain. He's not a health nut, but a switch flipped in his brain, and I watched him do it. He said four days into eating this—you got to get he was like 100% meat to 0% meat. I had to all of a sudden learn how to cook whole food plant-based, like delicious meals that weren't gross, that weren't plain but also weren't full of junk.
He said, four days into this, this food tastes so good. If you told me this food too would taste so good I would have done this years ago. He says this food tastes way better, way better. It's just a matter of giving it a try.
The Proteinaholic book is great because he shares his own personal journey. He says at the beginning, you don't have to be a vegan. You don't have to go there and do that. But just look at the science, look at the results, look at it for yourself. Try this on, try this way of eating on. He just shows. Okay, you want to eat chicken breast once a week? Well, here's the damage. Here's the potential damage to the body. He just shows it. It's interesting, right?
We have people out there who want to go and reverse disease and you've got fantastic answers, we want them to your website, gersonclinic.com. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so much. I definitely want to have you back. Anytime you want to come to teach new things, share new things. This has been fantastic.
[02:19:25] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. I just want to share one anecdote with you. I lived with Charlotte Gerson, right? She invited me to come live with her for two months at her home in San Diego, where she had all her father's handwritten files of all his patients between 1910 and 1959, which I'm one of maybe a handful of people who've ever had the opportunity to actually go through those files, but guess who lived on the same street as Charlotte Gerson. Joel Wallach.
[02:19:56] Ashley James: No way. Shut the front door.
[02:20:02] Dr. Patrick Vickers: He lives on the same street when I was living with her, yeah. And Joel and I actually have lectured at the same venue a couple of times. We've lectured in the same venue. A guy by the name of Vincent [inaudible 02:20:15] holds a thing in Missouri from time to time and we lectured on the same stage. But I met JoeI. I saw Joel walking up and down the street back in 1998.
[02:20:27] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, that is so cool.
[02:20:30] Dr. Patrick Vickers: When that video or that tape that you're referring to, that's when it was huge. He was iconic at that point. But he lived on the same street as Charlotte, go figure.
[02:20:42] Ashley James: Him and I have traveled together. I've helped him with his lectures, and he's this little short dude, right? I mean, he's stout, right? He's not a pushover, but he's really short. My husband's 6'7″, and I'm also pretty tall. I'm 5'10”. For a woman I'm tall. We both got muscle, my husband and I, and when we were traveling, we were running through the airport and he had two 80 pound bags. They're hockey bags or huge duffel bags. Two 80 pound bags and we tried to help him because we had our suitcase. We tried to help him and we were struggling. He picks both of them up like their feathers and starts running through the airport. We were winded. This dude is fit and that was about eight years ago.
[02:21:51] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Because he is tiny.
[02:21:53] Ashley James: He's tiny, but he's fit. I love his work. And again, I don't think every doctor on the planet has the answers, but Dr. Wallach has a lot of answers that other doctors don't. We just have to keep going down the rabbit hole, and I've had him on the show twice and it was great. I can't wait to have him back. I can't wait to have you back. This has been amazing. And of course, listeners need to go to gersonclinic.com and then go to the gift section, put in the password podcast to start getting your videos.
I'd love to come to your clinic one day, that would be so great. I hope that my listeners who need the help will seek your help. I just pray that this episode and all that you do, all your endeavors will fall on ears that are ready to hear and will make a ripple turn into a tidal wave and help so many people to beat cancer and other diseases. Thank you for helping end the needless suffering. That's really important.
[02:22:55] Dr. Patrick Vickers: Thank you, and don't forget, your listeners can go to that gift section and put in podcast, and they can listen to all the science that we've talked about today and even then some because there's a lot we didn't talk about. That's only for our paid clientele, they have access to that. Those are our private videos. Have them go there, gersonclinic.com
[02:23:20] Ashley James: Awesome. All right, thank you so much. And please, come back to the show. Don't be a stranger.
[02:23:24] Dr. Patrick Vickers: You just let me know when and I'll oblige.
[02:23:27] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today's episode with Dr. Patrick Vickers. Wasn't it amazing? I just love this protocol. I have a family member who is in hospice care at the end of their life. They chose to go through traditional cancer treatments and now they are in the final stages of their life deteriorating, which they deteriorate quite quickly after doing the traditional methods, the cut, burn, and poison methods.
I convinced them to just try some freshly pressed juice. They're not willing to use any form of natural medicine, but they're feeling so awful. I said, would you just be willing if I bought organic vegetables and fruit and I made some juice for you, would you be willing to do it? And so they said, yes. And I said, would you be willing to try this diet, the Gerson protocol? I'm not expecting them to do the whole thing. Just would you be willing to do it, and they said, okay, well, I'm willing to do most of it. So they're not willing to do all of it, but again, I just wanted to make them more comfortable. They're not willing to fight for themselves and use natural medicine to reverse their disease so I can't force them, but I did provide them with freshly squeezed juice every day and some healthy meals.
What happened would really blow your mind. They've been bedridden, unable to walk. If they try to stand, they faint because their blood pressure is so bad. There's weakness in their body. They can't stand, they have to be carried. Within 12 hours of them drinking juice, they were perky, peppy, sitting up without having sudden blood pressure drops. Within 24 hours, with a walker, they were able to take a little walk around the house first time in two months. That was so cool.
We've just been giving them some juice and basically, Gerson-style meals and they are feeling so much better. Now, the person is still in hospice care, they're still at the end of their life. They're still going downhill much slower now and having much more quality of life. We actually noticed their confusion went away. Their dementia where they didn't know how to work a remote anymore went away. They're able to use the remote control without asking how to use it.
Another thing, they had stopped reading, which they love to do, and they stopped using their cell phone. They were just, for the last two months, sitting in bed confused, staring at the TV. After about two days of being on most of the Gerson protocol, like I said, they're not doing the coffee enemas, but they're drinking some juice. Not drinking as much juice as you would if you were trying to save your life, but they're drinking a bunch of juice, vegetables, and some fruits, and then eat some of the meals.
They started reading again. They started looking on another phone again. They started sitting up and talking. The color came back in their face. Pain became less. Bowel movements became much easier, going to the bathroom became much easier. Their mobility became much easier. It improved quality of life more than any drug that that hospice care could give them in less than a week.
If that doesn't speak to the profound effect that food is medicine, that what you put in your mouth every day, that if you go through the drive-thru, what you're putting in your mouth is hurting you is poison. If you spend the time to eat organic, fresh, raw and cooked vegetables, and the juice, you are blasting your cells with high oxygen nutrients that help the body to be healthier and healthier and healthier.
Another thing to remember, this has just given me such a perspective. How you manage your stress, how you take time to take care of yourself, the self-care that you put in in the kitchen, not just in the bathroom. I've heard people say, oh, I'm going to take an extra-long bath and that's my self-care. Your self-care starts with the kitchen. What you do, what you put in your mouth, what you drink, what you eat, that is the biggest self-care. Go for a walk, pray, meditate, read, try to ground yourself. Go lie down in some grass. Literally, go hug a tree. Get out in nature. Give yourself moments of joy and nourish every cell in your body.
What you do now will affect the quality of your life in the last 20 years of your life. The last 20 years can be miserable or they can be filled with joy.
I'm a friend of a woman who's a doctor and we've been friends for many years. She's in her early 80s and you wouldn't know it. You'd think she was in her 40s. She runs marathons. She's been in the Olympics. She's so wonderful and she took care of her body her whole life, and now, there's the return on her investment. Because I know 80-year-olds that are going blind, that are losing their comprehension, that is losing their mobility. Whereas my friend has the same functionality as a 40-year-old and she's loving life in her 80s.
That's the blessing you get by really taking what you learned today and applying it. Just remember that, apply it. The investment in yourself can make such a difference and just try it for a week. I cannot believe what's happening to my family member who clearly has seen benefits from this just a week into doing it. So I'd love for you to just give it a try and just commit to seven days of juicing and eating this diet and see what happens. See the miracle that unfolds in your body. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear how you respond after a week. What are the changes? Even just the subtle changes, what are the benefits that happen? Please come to the Learn True Health Facebook group and share, I'd love to hear.
And also, remember to go to learntruehealth.com/aloe and get some of that Medicinal Aloe Gel and drink it every day. Let me know how that helps you. The coupon code is LTH2022, and that's learntruehealth.com/aloe. I look forward to hearing from you after you do all this. I want to know how this helped you. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day. Thank you so much for sharing this with others. Let's help as many people as possible to learn true health.
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Health Coach, Podcast Creator, Homeschooling Mom, Passionate About God & Healing
Ashley James is a Holistic Health Coach, Podcaster, Rapid Anxiety Cessation Expert, and avid Whole Food Plant-Based Home Chef. Since 2005 Ashley has worked with clients to transform their lives as a Master Practitioner and Trainer of Neuro-linguistic Programming.
Her health struggles led her to study under the world’s top holistic doctors, where she reversed her type 2 diabetes, PCOS, infertility, chronic infections, and debilitating adrenal fatigue.
In 2016, Ashley launched her podcast Learn True Health with Ashley James to spread the TRUTH about health and healing. You no longer need to suffer; your body CAN and WILL heal itself when we give it what it needs and stop what is harming it!
The Learn True Health Podcast has been celebrated as one of the top holistic health shows today because of Ashley’s passion for extracting the right information from leading experts and doctors of holistic health and Naturopathic medicine
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